Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news
Speaker 1: radio Daylon Brown.
Speaker 2: Backhead lost the ball, Ananoby all by himself blows it down.
Speaker 3: And Titum is hurt.
Speaker 4: Taratum is down. He wants a time out. Titum is
Speaker 4: so much pain.
Speaker 2: I'm a Celtics called time out, grabbing that right ankle.
Speaker 4: And that's the final time out. Well the Bosston.
Speaker 2: Celtics, but more importantly, Tatum really.
Speaker 4: Shake it up and perhaps the reason the Knicks are
Speaker 4: still in this thing and up on the Pacers. As
Speaker 4: d Andrews told you fifty six forty five, Dan Shaughnessy
Speaker 4: Judge's boss a globe. Uh Dan, if you have by
Speaker 4: the way, I need to tell people if you haven't
Speaker 4: read the book, I wish it lasted forever. It covers
Speaker 4: the eighty Celtics. We're going to get into that coming up.
Speaker 4: And also Dan's and parents on Celtic City with Bill Simmons,
Speaker 4: which was great. But we're going to talk about the
Speaker 4: team in the current situation. So Dandy, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2: Hey Gary, good to be here.
Speaker 4: Listen. So what do you think if Tatum doesn't get hurt,
Speaker 4: did they come back and are they playing Indiana right now.
Speaker 2: No, No, that series was already over. I mean, in
Speaker 2: my view, I mean teams have come back with three
Speaker 2: to one. That game was over. It was Game four,
Speaker 2: so they were going down three to one. Whether Tatum
Speaker 2: was on the floor or not. It was like nine
Speaker 2: or eleven two minutes to play when that happened. They
Speaker 2: weren't going to win that game. And you know, you
Speaker 2: could say they could come back and win the next
Speaker 2: three and still be playing it, but I'm not buying that.
Speaker 2: Every team has injuries this time of year. Had that
Speaker 2: happened in the first game of the series, yeah, that's
Speaker 2: a legit excuse. But they the three games they lost,
Speaker 2: they had leads of twenty, twenty and fourteen points in
Speaker 2: the second half. That was a collapse. And I don't
Speaker 2: want to hear the excuse thing. They shouldn't use it.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we're still hearing about Jalen Brown's
Speaker 2: meniscus whatever. He may not even have surgery. It's just
Speaker 2: something that they play through. So I'm just there's too
Speaker 2: much of that. I mean, Porzingis was clearly was clearly limited,
Speaker 2: but that's kind of him. I mean, he only played
Speaker 2: and I think less than half the playoff games last year,
Speaker 2: and everybody remembers, you know, twenty one in the first
Speaker 2: half of Game one of the finals against Dallas. But
Speaker 2: he really wasn't a factor most of the time in
Speaker 2: their great run last year when they were sixteen and
Speaker 2: three in the playoffs. So this is a whole other
Speaker 2: thing this year, and it should still strike Boston fans.
Speaker 2: Is wildly disappointing that they did not do better.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I thought they'd be mentally tough. Now, could they
Speaker 4: have defeated Indiana? I think the Pacers are a lot
Speaker 4: better than we think, but they shouldn't have lost the
Speaker 4: series against the Knicks. Without question. The first two games
Speaker 4: they blew it.
Speaker 2: I mean twenty point leagues at home. I mean, that's
Speaker 2: unheard of in the playoffs. In the second half, I
Speaker 2: mean they and there was a stat they were ahead
Speaker 2: going into that Game five or Game six, yeah, game six.
Speaker 2: I mean they were ahead in eighty four percent of
Speaker 2: the minutes played in that series. They were always ahead.
Speaker 2: They were the better team and they got beat. That's
Speaker 2: like Dandrew Keett Moore days in first place. We can
Speaker 2: do that stuff forever, but it doesn't do him any good.
Speaker 2: But I know my eyes told me, and they had
Speaker 2: beaten those guys eight out of nine over the last
Speaker 2: two years, an average of twenty one point wins. In
Speaker 2: this season when they were four and zero against them,
Speaker 2: I mean it just again, there's just no excuse for
Speaker 2: what happened to them.
Speaker 4: I wonder if Missoula is too much of a fan
Speaker 4: of the team or a concierge of the team, or
Speaker 4: a defender of the three, which I thought was crazy,
Speaker 4: or is he a coach. I mean, you got to
Speaker 4: look to coaching in that thing.
Speaker 2: I think you've hit it with the three thing. And
Speaker 2: you know there's all about the analytics. They kind of
Speaker 2: think they're a little smart and everybody, and I just
Speaker 2: I just don't buy it. I mean, when you when
Speaker 2: you say it's a make miss league, that's not good enough.
Speaker 2: When you have the better players, when you have the
Speaker 2: better players, you use that, you go to the basket,
Speaker 2: you do things that can demonstrate your better players. You
Speaker 2: don't just take a chance on hitting the three every night.
Speaker 2: And we know that that was their strategy. It was
Speaker 2: always preferable. They took the most in the history of
Speaker 2: the league, and the team before him that did that
Speaker 2: was Houston never won a championship. It's just not a formula.
Speaker 2: And you watch the teams that are still playing, no
Speaker 2: one comes near what they did with that three point weapon.
Speaker 2: It's just not a playoff strategy. And it was certainly
Speaker 2: good enough for sixty one wins, and they won a
Speaker 2: lot of games shorthanded. You remember, there were very few
Speaker 2: nights they had everybody right, and they're just so deep
Speaker 2: and well put together by Brad Stevens that they were
Speaker 2: able to do that. But yeah, I mean the Oklahoma
Speaker 2: City they would have been interesting in my view because
Speaker 2: they were zero and two against that team. And I
Speaker 2: thought last year Denver would have been interesting. They were
Speaker 2: owing to against Denver. Turn the season never gotten into
Speaker 2: the playoffs. So again we don't know. You just ifs
Speaker 2: some butts and all that stuff, but but it's it
Speaker 2: still sticks with me that they should still be playing
Speaker 2: and they're not, and and it's just it went from
Speaker 2: oh God, they're gonna win another championship back to back
Speaker 2: to rebuild in a matter of like five days.
Speaker 4: What do you think of Madula?
Speaker 2: I like Joe personally, and I think he knows a
Speaker 2: lot about basketball. I think he has the room I
Speaker 2: think that's really important in this in this sport, that
Speaker 2: the guys, you know, Tatum is a big, a big fan,
Speaker 2: and that's important is I mean, it really matters these days.
Speaker 2: And I just don't like the analytics driven stuff and
Speaker 2: and and how how tired they seemed to be to that,
Speaker 2: And yeah, they were time out issues. I mean that
Speaker 2: first game, he just some of the stuff they were trying,
Speaker 2: it was was just it was just silly and he
Speaker 2: looked at these stretches. But he and then Joe's not
Speaker 2: calling timeouts really burned him in game two, the overtime games.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's stuff. That's stuff still there. But he's
Speaker 2: not going anywhere, believe me. I mean, Press Stevens loves him,
Speaker 2: the players love him, and it's really sort of a
Speaker 2: MIoD point what you think.
Speaker 4: And also the year before last year when they won
Speaker 4: the championship, we all know that some stars were injured,
Speaker 4: you know, Miami, Indy, they had lost some of their
Speaker 4: big guns. Butler was down in Miami. And also it
Speaker 4: wasn't the three point shot that won that championship. It
Speaker 4: was the intangibles by Drew Holliday. It was the fact
Speaker 4: that Jason Tatum couldn't make threes and we get fifteen
Speaker 4: rebounds a game. It was that they actually played some
Speaker 4: defense and that Porzingis could go down low and be
Speaker 4: they just warneds depended on the three. The thing that
Speaker 4: frustrated me is they were trying. They got lazy. That's it, Dan,
Speaker 4: That's the way I see it. This year's team got
Speaker 4: so you see, that's why they get black.
Speaker 2: I felt that way all year. The only time they
Speaker 2: lose is when they got bored, but just in intentive
Speaker 2: or taking things for granted. And that seemed to be
Speaker 2: you know, you're always going to lose your eighteen twenty games,
Speaker 2: I don't care how good you are. And and winning
Speaker 2: sixty one is good, it's not a guarantee. And Cleveland
Speaker 2: won sixty four or five and they went home the
Speaker 2: same same quick speed. They just weren't playing well at
Speaker 2: the end. But I just thought the bosson team was
Speaker 2: so hit, so much depth. But you know, your reference
Speaker 2: holiday in Porzingis, and in this case being a year
Speaker 2: older is not good for them. Always been a leaked
Speaker 2: sixteen years and put in you know, al Horford's thirty eight,
Speaker 2: thirty nine years old. And there were times when you know,
Speaker 2: when they were playing the next on Horford was Garden Brunts,
Speaker 2: and some of the time they had everybody trying to
Speaker 2: guard Brunson and and they just they weren't able to
Speaker 2: contain him when when it mattered the most. And then
Speaker 2: going back, I mean, there was really kind of no
Speaker 2: excuse for the lay down in New York for Game six.
Speaker 2: That was really disappointing. And they were behind by forty
Speaker 2: two points in that game, yep, and that's that's just
Speaker 2: I mean, that tells you that's that's quitting. They just
Speaker 2: they just gave up. And we'd never thought we'd would
Speaker 2: see that out of this team. So yeah, it's a
Speaker 2: I don't know, that's a sorrow one for me. I
Speaker 2: had the empty frame on my wall here ready to
Speaker 2: put the page one Championship nineteenth banner here, and that
Speaker 2: frame is still empty. I'm not quite sure how that happened.
Speaker 4: All Right, we're going to talk to Dan about what's
Speaker 4: down the road with the Celtics. Also, he was in
Speaker 4: Celtic City, which was a terrific documentary and if you
Speaker 4: haven't read his book Wish It Lasted Forever about the
Speaker 4: eighty Celtics, you really should pick it.
Speaker 3: Up.
Speaker 4: It's a great read. We'll get into that coming up
Speaker 4: next on WBZ.
Speaker 1: You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z,
Speaker 1: Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 4: Back here with Dan Shaughnessy, Bost The Globe, Gary Tag
Speaker 4: rag tonight. So Tatum's out for the year and holiday.
Speaker 4: I think his better days of passing by this talk
Speaker 4: of baby him being moved to Dallas and Porzingis has
Speaker 4: a year left and you don't know if he's dependable.
Speaker 4: So we've gone from the possibility of winning or the
Speaker 4: certainty at least in my mind of winning two in
Speaker 4: a row, to a rebuild a year off. How do
Speaker 4: we look at this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's really going to be a challenge. Brad Stevens
Speaker 2: is good. I have a lot of paith in him,
Speaker 2: and they tend to surprise you with things that we
Speaker 2: haven't speculated on or route about, or they're they're good
Speaker 2: at that at keeping things close to the best. So
Speaker 2: I'm hoping there's something we haven't thought of that's on
Speaker 2: the horizon away for them to still be a contender
Speaker 2: next year. But on paper everything you just referenced, knowing
Speaker 2: that that Tatum's not going to be on the team
Speaker 2: and you can't count on them for the whole year,
Speaker 2: which is the only way to look at this. What
Speaker 2: do you do? And do you continue to pay the
Speaker 2: have the payroll they have and pay the luxury tax
Speaker 2: penalties that they that are built in with a team
Speaker 2: that can't win the championship? Well the answer is pretty
Speaker 2: much no. You got new ownership there, which they don't
Speaker 2: have the equity in the team that the last guy's had,
Speaker 2: and why would they start off working in the red
Speaker 2: with a product that can't win a championship? So yeah,
Speaker 2: all those things, and you didn't you mentioned Al Horford's
Speaker 2: an unrestricted free agent. I can't imagine why he would
Speaker 2: re up in Boston unless they were serious contenders win
Speaker 2: the NBA Championship in that last year. Otherwise he should
Speaker 2: go somewhere that is now, the East isn't that strong,
Speaker 2: and the Celtics, as we talked about, we're able to
Speaker 2: be most teams without one or two of their big
Speaker 2: guns on a regular basis, But take Tatum off of
Speaker 2: the season and add a year to the people that
Speaker 2: he referenced, and it's just hard to see them as
Speaker 2: a serious contender going into this thing, Which means, how
Speaker 2: do they how do they build the roster for next year?
Speaker 2: And that that's Brad.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you just I think you're a team
Speaker 4: in waiting. I've had this debate with my friends. I've
Speaker 4: become a little frustrated with how people have fallen in
Speaker 4: love with all these other players, whether it's you know,
Speaker 4: not well, not Dallas anymore now Los Angeles or Denver.
Speaker 4: And SGA is a great player. Don't get me wrong,
Speaker 4: I would take Jason Tatum over anybody, hands down. Some
Speaker 4: of my friends have tried to blame him for what
Speaker 4: happened with the Celtics. I'm like, come on, that's it's
Speaker 4: not on him. I think Jason Tatum for me, is
Speaker 4: my favorite player in the league.
Speaker 2: Well he and you know, oddly, he was having one
Speaker 2: of the best games of his career that I know her.
Speaker 2: He was just just lighting it up and from the
Speaker 2: longest range threes I've ever seen on a steady basis
Speaker 2: that night, and yeah, and just rebound steals the whole package.
Speaker 2: I think that what do you say, Gary, His ceiling
Speaker 2: is probably higher than anybody out there now, including SGA
Speaker 2: or Anthony Edwards or what.
Speaker 4: Have you get Anthony Edwards. I mean the Baby Jordan thing.
Speaker 4: I mean, forget it. I'm not I'm not buying that.
Speaker 2: You know, Tatum's been you know, Tatum has been Top
Speaker 2: four MVP four times. I mean, and and that all
Speaker 2: NBA First Team. So he's he's right there and it
Speaker 2: can still be more. And he's still relatively young in
Speaker 2: age years. I mean, he's got a lot of NBA years.
Speaker 2: He's in the middle, and you know, has remained remarkably healthy.
Speaker 2: That was the one thing that never really touched Tatum
Speaker 2: Brown to the degree that we're seeing now. So this
Speaker 2: is a big test. And what will he do when
Speaker 2: he comes back from this? I mean, if some guys
Speaker 2: aren't ever the same, so we'll be that's true. I
Speaker 2: mean joking, what's there?
Speaker 4: I mean the Joker and Luca, they don't play defense.
Speaker 4: I mean, come on, I mean Tatum doesn't. Forget about it.
Speaker 4: I mean, those guys they remind me of some of
Speaker 4: my friends playing in the Thursday night beer League, you know,
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, they shoot a three and you
Speaker 4: could still beat him back on the other end of
Speaker 4: the floor. I want to talk about Celtic City and
Speaker 4: also again if you haven't, if you missed Dan's book
Speaker 4: will shuld Lasted Forever and you are in a Celtics trait.
Speaker 4: It's a great read. A lot of people think of
Speaker 4: Dan as the baseball guy, which he certainly is. I
Speaker 4: mean he's been recognized by Cooperstown, but also he covered
Speaker 4: the Celtics in the mid eighties. He was there for
Speaker 4: the Glory years called Scoop affectionately question mark by Larry Bird,
Speaker 4: So check that out. But you were great in Celtics City.
Speaker 4: It was great seeing you and Jackie and Bob Ryan
Speaker 4: and I had a chance to see you at the premiere.
Speaker 4: What was that experience like and what did you think
Speaker 4: of the series?
Speaker 2: I love this series. It's really a keyper and to
Speaker 2: have nine parts, and it's nice that you can always
Speaker 2: you know, we watched several of them, and for younger people,
Speaker 2: just a history of those early decades in the sixties
Speaker 2: in particular, you know they won eleven and thirteen years
Speaker 2: and just the way Red built it in the lineage
Speaker 2: of you know, Sam Jones and Russell and all those
Speaker 2: great great guys. Of course, having Kouzi is still alive
Speaker 2: able to sort of connect all the all the threads
Speaker 2: as this narrator almost it just made. It was really
Speaker 2: special for me, and though I thought they were very
Speaker 2: thorough professional. I mean, Montville and Ryan and myself all
Speaker 2: would of view three different times and twice collectively and
Speaker 2: once each individually, and there'd be like two hour sessions.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine editing that because we were small parts
Speaker 2: of that. There were people that were in a lot
Speaker 2: more than we were, and there's important players in it
Speaker 2: a lot.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: They went and got you know, read our bags, daughters
Speaker 2: and Bill Russell's daughter and just really deep archival stuff
Speaker 2: as well. I thought it was spectacular and I really
Speaker 2: was going. I would set my clock by it every week,
Speaker 2: you know, could they dropped them one at a time
Speaker 2: and wait for the next one. So I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2: Of course, my wheelhouse, as you reference with the book,
Speaker 2: there was the early eighties, mid eighties, and and I
Speaker 2: was glad that the night we read that premiere, that's
Speaker 2: the one that they showcased, because that Celtic Laker thing
Speaker 2: in the eighties to me was still you know, it
Speaker 2: just it just moved the NBA to the next level
Speaker 2: to where they are now, and where they were they
Speaker 2: went from small time to almost global with the Larry
Speaker 2: Magic Boston La thing, you know, giving away to David Stern,
Speaker 2: Michael Jordan's dream team and here we are today. But yeah,
Speaker 2: that Celtic thing on HBO is a keeper for all
Speaker 2: Celtic fans.
Speaker 4: All I know is the segment with you, Ryan and
Speaker 4: Montville on the porch in shorts is an ad for
Speaker 4: SPS fifty.
Speaker 2: I mean Mint Phil Rose Lord the shorts. That was
Speaker 2: his mistake. But yeah, we're not We do not bronze Gary,
Speaker 2: you know, we do not bronze our people.
Speaker 4: I think people. I was glad that people were reminded
Speaker 4: that the great Celtic teams of the eighties did not repeat.
Speaker 4: It's hard to do. You mentioned the sixties a different time.
Speaker 4: Great teams. Take nothing away from them, but the Celtic
Speaker 4: teams of Larry, which people in this area he's the god.
Speaker 4: And fine, they did not repeat. And I think people
Speaker 4: forget that.
Speaker 2: Oh they do for sure. And you know, I mean
Speaker 2: they were in it, you know, five times, but they
Speaker 2: one they were spaced out. Eighty one, eighty four, eighty six,
Speaker 2: those are the three they won. And the seventies teams
Speaker 2: didn't repeat either. They won seventy four and seventy six, right,
Speaker 2: So really the last team to repeat is the Russell
Speaker 2: team sixty eight sixty nine when he was the player coach,
Speaker 2: and and of course prior to that they had the
Speaker 2: eight in a row from the late fifties into sixty six.
Speaker 2: So yeah, a different time, like you say, but no
Speaker 2: less of an awesome accomplishment to do what those guys did.
Speaker 4: I mean one of the things they took from it.
Speaker 4: Because listen, I love Cedric Maxwell. He's a friend of mine.
Speaker 4: You know, he's coming, He's talked to some of the
Speaker 4: classes I've been teaching in the whole thing with Larry
Speaker 4: and Max, and you know, look, Max won an MVP
Speaker 4: in the series. I mean eighty one eighty four, you know,
Speaker 4: did they win without Max? I think the guy deserves
Speaker 4: a ton of credit? Was there, you know? And I
Speaker 4: asked Ryan about this, you know, when Larry said something
Speaker 4: about Max quitting. Did Larry realize the impact of those
Speaker 4: words that way?
Speaker 2: He just that's how he felt, and then he was
Speaker 2: angry and because you know, as you said, they didn't
Speaker 2: repeat in this limited amount of chances. And you know
Speaker 2: that eighty five team, I mean they won eighty forty
Speaker 2: eighty six, so they really could have won three straight.
Speaker 2: Eighty five team was a wagon, but at the end
Speaker 2: people were hurt and it couldn't help him out. You know,
Speaker 2: Bucker the last game against the Lakers when they lost
Speaker 2: at home, Bucker didn't play, Max didn't play. It was
Speaker 2: they were very thin. They only used like seven guys
Speaker 2: in that game, so they just got they had no
Speaker 2: depth at the end, and that's why they brought in
Speaker 2: ceasting of Waltz in the next year and kind of
Speaker 2: got the thing going again with more depth, but didn't
Speaker 2: have it in the playoffs than eighty five. But the
Speaker 2: eighty five team was a wagon from start to finish,
Speaker 2: and they just didn't have the depth in the playoff
Speaker 2: and Max not coming back from the February small knee
Speaker 2: surgery was a part of that, and he did play,
Speaker 2: but he never was the same guy. And then the
Speaker 2: way he teased about it didn't help and didn't sound
Speaker 2: like he was taking it seriously, which it defends him
Speaker 2: to think that people did take that seriously. And Larry
Speaker 2: just didn't think he did enough, and of course then
Speaker 2: Red didn't think and it caused hard feelings for some time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the eighty three team That's the one that bugged
Speaker 4: me because they didn't like the coach and Parish even
Speaker 4: talked about it. Parish was great. I mean, the Parish
Speaker 4: part was phenomenal. But they quit on the coach. They
Speaker 4: quit on But that was a mut.
Speaker 2: I was there for that. That was a team mutiny.
Speaker 2: Larry is the only guy standing by Bill at the enne.
Speaker 2: Larry's always big on authority to like Bill Fitch. Bill
Speaker 2: Fitch wasn't Hall of Fame great coach, but he had
Speaker 2: a shelf life and they had exceeded it that year.
Speaker 2: And that was the first year I came to cover
Speaker 2: the team, and it was obvious from the jump they
Speaker 2: were done and they needed the change. And as soon
Speaker 2: as they made the change, you know, four straight finals
Speaker 2: and were two championships with.
Speaker 4: Ye yeah, you know. But here's the thing. This is
Speaker 4: where're so parochial, which is like if we saw that
Speaker 4: in another city, you know, we go, wow, come on,
Speaker 4: what do you mean? But I guess what I'm saying
Speaker 4: is Simmons is such a great job putting this together.
Speaker 4: Revisionist history tells me that these guys were perfect and
Speaker 4: they're not. They're human beings. As a Celtics fan. The
Speaker 4: eighty three thing bothered me, you know that that that
Speaker 4: bothered me. I was like, wait a minute, you guys
Speaker 4: could have had another title, but you didn't like the coach,
Speaker 4: so you quit on things.
Speaker 2: We're working the backcourt. You know, Tiny was Selking. He
Speaker 2: was at the end, and Buckner had come in and
Speaker 2: he was not as good as we thought he was.
Speaker 2: And Pitch was disappointed in that the guard thing was
Speaker 2: messed up. Danny wasn't starting, and Pitch wrote him really hard.
Speaker 2: Jerry Henderson was about to have a great moment and
Speaker 2: then get traded. Yeah, so the whole backcourt thing, and
Speaker 2: they didn't have Dennis Johnson. Don't forget that. That changed.
Speaker 2: They acquired Dennis Johnson in the summer after the eighty
Speaker 2: four sweep and get swept out by the Bucks. So
Speaker 2: they added a new coach, Casey, who basically rolled out
Speaker 2: the ball and said go get him, guys, And they
Speaker 2: added Dennis Johnson, one of the you know, Hall of
Speaker 2: Fame guard who could it was a great clutch player
Speaker 2: and also a great defender of guys like Andrew, Tony
Speaker 2: Magic and et cetera. And Larry loved playing with him.
Speaker 2: We all loved him. I mean, he was just he
Speaker 2: was a great presence in that team. So yeah, those
Speaker 2: those things weren't there in eighty three, and I was
Speaker 2: at the eighty three team every day, and you could
Speaker 2: see that coming. I mean that it was not They
Speaker 2: were not championship Timber in that season. M l was
Speaker 2: a leader of the mutiny. He hated Fitch so much.
Speaker 2: You know, Max hated him. McHale just never took him
Speaker 2: seriously at the end, he was just teasing him. And yeah,
Speaker 2: it was it was club wide except for Larry Bird.
Speaker 4: Final question here, Dan, what was your favorite part of
Speaker 4: covering that team?
Speaker 2: You know, it occurred to me that I worked in
Speaker 2: the book just how how secure they all were in
Speaker 2: their own greatness, and guys really rooted for other guys
Speaker 2: and and you know, McHale Larry weren't that close, but
Speaker 2: they didn't resent each other's talent Paris same thing he
Speaker 2: could have resented not getting more touches of the publicity
Speaker 2: for Larry DJ. They just they were securing their own
Speaker 2: greatness and rooting for each other and really had fun.
Speaker 2: And just I wished I had for my part, just
Speaker 2: enjoyed the basketball more. Because you'll never see anything like
Speaker 2: it again.
Speaker 4: Wish it lasted forever. If you haven't read or check
Speaker 4: it out, you can get it at Amazon bookstores everywhere.
Speaker 4: From Dan Shaughnessy covering the Celtics when he was there
Speaker 4: from eighty two to eighty six, it was a pleasure
Speaker 4: to see you at the premiere. It was great to
Speaker 4: revisit the Celtics in the eighties. Sammons did a great job. Dan,
Speaker 4: thanks for coming on. We appreciate it, enjoyed it.
Speaker 2: Carry take care okay too.
Speaker 4: Dan Chaughnessy's busting Glo. Coming up next a national champion,
Speaker 4: the Pride of Subbury, mass Matt Dooley on what it
Speaker 4: takes to be a collegiate athlete and what parents need
Speaker 4: to know. It's all coming up next to WBZ.
Speaker 1: Run with Dan Ray. I'm w BZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 4: Madam puts Cornell about three and fifty seconds to go.
Speaker 1: If there's one player you want to bone his stick
Speaker 1: in this spot to close.
Speaker 3: It out, to tie the record.
Speaker 1: It's almost two story book.
Speaker 4: In honesty, a half century in the making. But the
Speaker 4: journey is complete.
Speaker 1: Cornell.
Speaker 4: We'll bring a championship home to the the You have it,
Speaker 4: the big red Man. They win the title down at
Speaker 4: Jillette Stadium. Division one champions youhoing at me right now
Speaker 4: is the pride of Sudbury, Massachusetts. Also a defenseman, starting
Speaker 4: defenseman for Cornell and Matt Dewley. Matt, thanks for coming
Speaker 4: on night side.
Speaker 3: Of course, thanks so much for having me. Gary.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's great to have you and listen. Full disclosure.
Speaker 4: Friends with the family. We like this, kiddies. It was
Speaker 4: a mentor of my son who played lacrosse at LSU,
Speaker 4: Bob an A mcdools. They have a lot to be
Speaker 4: proud of. But what I want to talk to you about.
Speaker 4: First of all, what was that like to win that
Speaker 4: championship down at Gillette.
Speaker 3: It was a surreal experience. I mean, I've had this
Speaker 3: date circled on my calendar ever since I did a
Speaker 3: postgraduate year at the Salisbury School. As soon as I
Speaker 3: found out that, you know, one of the final fourth
Speaker 3: in championship was going to be at Chalette Stadium, you know,
Speaker 3: that was that was the dream. And to finally make
Speaker 3: it there this year and then beat Penn State and
Speaker 3: make it to the championship and then win it all,
Speaker 3: it was it was just a dream come true. I
Speaker 3: had so many family members there from local town supporting me,
Speaker 3: so it was just such a cool moment.
Speaker 4: Also, I want to thank Danny Kraft. He makes it
Speaker 4: all happen down there. Danny's a big supporter Toughs lacrosse.
Speaker 4: His son scored a goal for Toughs and and it
Speaker 4: Crafts through a great job with this tournament down at
Speaker 4: Gillett and my daughter, which loves lacrosse, we saw North
Speaker 4: Carolina play, so it's a great event. Now are you
Speaker 4: surprised at the growth of the sport over the last
Speaker 4: ten or fifteen years because it was always big in Sudbury,
Speaker 4: But since you've left Sudbury, you've got other towns. You've
Speaker 4: got Redding, You've got chelmsforad, You've got Franklin, You've got
Speaker 4: public schools act in Boxbury. As much as it pains
Speaker 4: me to say being from Sudbury, you got to be.
Speaker 4: I mean, these are all legit programs right now. Are
Speaker 4: you surprised at the increase of popularity of the sport?
Speaker 3: One hundred percent? I mean when I was growing up
Speaker 3: in Sudbury watching Lincoln Sudbury High School lacrosse, it was
Speaker 3: really just kind of Duxbury LS and Hingham. We're kind
Speaker 3: of the three powerhouses in high school lacrosse, and that
Speaker 3: you know, has grown so much. You have BC High now,
Speaker 3: sjp ACT in Boxborough. All these towns are growing their
Speaker 3: youth programs, growing their high school teams. So it's really
Speaker 3: really cool to see. And this weekend, Jillette, I think
Speaker 3: head around thirty two thousand fans, which was the highest
Speaker 3: number of fans since since twenty eleven, So it was
Speaker 3: really really cool to see. And I think as more
Speaker 3: people have access to, you know, watching the game and
Speaker 3: equipment and gear, it's it's just gonna keep growing because
Speaker 3: it really is such an awesome sport and I don't
Speaker 3: think many many people have been exposed to it, and
Speaker 3: as they do, they'll just they'll just fall in love
Speaker 3: with it. So it's really cool to see.
Speaker 4: Why do you love it? And what lesson has it
Speaker 4: taught you in life.
Speaker 3: It's something that I've kind of taken with me since
Speaker 3: high school. But uh, effort equals respect is something that
Speaker 3: has kind of stuck with me throughout my you know,
Speaker 3: high school career, especially in my postgraduate year. A lot
Speaker 3: of those guys who are there have been three four
Speaker 3: year guys, So to come in as a postgrad can
Speaker 3: be a little nerve wracking. But I just knew going
Speaker 3: into there, if I worked my hardest, I would earn
Speaker 3: the respect of my teammates and the coaches, and the
Speaker 3: same thing. The same thing at Cornell, because the truth is,
Speaker 3: everyone that's recruited Cornell is the best kid on their
Speaker 3: team in high school. So when you have twelve recruits
Speaker 3: who are the best of their own towns, you kind
Speaker 3: of need to need to separate yourself. And it's just,
Speaker 3: you know, my effort and hard work I feel like
Speaker 3: has always driven me into the right moment. So and
Speaker 3: just gaining the trust of my teammates through that effort
Speaker 3: is something you know, that will stick with me going
Speaker 3: into my senior year, continuing to earn that respect to
Speaker 3: my teammates through my hard work and effort, and then
Speaker 3: even going into the workplace. We put a lot of
Speaker 3: emphasis at Cornell on doing the little things, and I
Speaker 3: think that you know is important, uh in athletics and beyond,
Speaker 3: you know, showing up to the office five days a week,
Speaker 3: you know, getting it in early, that little thing. You know,
Speaker 3: it might not make a difference, but it shows that
Speaker 3: you care and it shows that you're putting in effort.
Speaker 3: So I think that's something I'll kind of always take.
Speaker 4: With mesover baseball.
Speaker 3: Uh So I started with baseball. I think kindergarten to
Speaker 3: maybe second grade, I played baseball, and and Brian that well,
Speaker 3: I was too I was too focused on climbing the
Speaker 3: batting cages. So my mom was like, we we can't
Speaker 3: do this. We need to we need to get you
Speaker 3: running around. So I picked up a lacrosstic in second grade.
Speaker 3: Actually wasn't a huge fan of it, put it down
Speaker 3: for a year, and then got back into it fourth
Speaker 3: grade and just kind of ran away with it from there.
Speaker 4: But you know, when I grew up and Brian Varns
Speaker 4: had the legendary head coach of LS lacrosse who's done
Speaker 4: a great job there. When I went to the University
Speaker 4: of Maine, my buddy Bill Herbster, now he was from
Speaker 4: Jersey and he was lived in the room across the hall,
Speaker 4: and he had a lacrosse stick, and I went, you
Speaker 4: know what the hell is that? Yeah, because I had
Speaker 4: never seen nobody played lacrosse in main I mean, it
Speaker 4: was a rich kids sport. Quite frankly, I mean it
Speaker 4: was obviously in a history with the Native Americans, or
Speaker 4: it was a private school sport, so I wasn't familiar
Speaker 4: with it at all, but I could speak like from
Speaker 4: my son who plays. Kids love the helmet, Kids love
Speaker 4: the physicality of it. Kids love the fact that you
Speaker 4: don't have to wait to get a fly ball in
Speaker 4: right field or center field or left field. You know,
Speaker 4: you know twice in a game. It just moves and
Speaker 4: it's just perpetual in motion and that's why people are
Speaker 4: playing instead.
Speaker 3: Of Yeah, an emphasis of kind of the Final four
Speaker 3: weekend was you know, showing people that's the fastest, uh
Speaker 3: fastest sport on two feet, which is I think is
Speaker 3: one hundred percent true. You know, you're you're always moving,
Speaker 3: You're not waiting for something to happen. And you know,
Speaker 3: to your point about you know, the physicality, I grew
Speaker 3: up playing uh football, basketball, and lacrosse, and you know,
Speaker 3: I think the physicality from playing football helps me in lacrosse.
Speaker 3: And then as a defenseman, playing defense on a basketball
Speaker 3: court is very very similar to h on a lacrosse field.
Speaker 3: So I think it's a great sport. You know, you
Speaker 3: did you learn a lot from the other sports you
Speaker 3: play and it helps you in lacrosse. So that's why
Speaker 3: I love it, I'd say yeah.
Speaker 4: And also I think that the you know, basketball people
Speaker 4: who don't follow the cross don't haven't been followed lacrosse,
Speaker 4: haven't been exposed to this, but the basketball game translates
Speaker 4: very well to it because some people think, yes, you know,
Speaker 4: oh it's you know what what would what what? Like hockey?
Speaker 4: The initial response as well, if you understand hockey, you
Speaker 4: understand lacrosse. No, if you understand basketball, you understand lacrosse.
Speaker 3: Yeah, even from like an offensive perspective, sure, the amount
Speaker 3: of the amount of cutting, and you know, picks, picks
Speaker 3: have become a huge part of the game of lacrosse lately,
Speaker 3: you know, setting picks, cutting, moving the ball moves faster
Speaker 3: than you move, which is the same in basketball. So
Speaker 3: there's so many similarities. And then on the defense, and
Speaker 3: then you know, you can play his zone in lacrosse,
Speaker 3: you can play his zone in basketball. The footwork aspect
Speaker 3: of both those sports is incredibly similar. So there's a
Speaker 3: ton of similarities between the sports, which which really helps me.
Speaker 4: Matt, can you hang on, we have to take a break.
Speaker 4: I have some more questions regarding what parents should do
Speaker 4: if they have a young loxer. Yeah, okay. Matt Dooley
Speaker 4: National championship, Proud of Sidbury, Mass. Uh, part of the
Speaker 4: Cornell men's lacross team, starting defenseman, joining me. If you
Speaker 4: have a kid that's gonna play lacrosse, you're buying the equipment.
Speaker 4: Please stick around, We're gonna I've been through it as
Speaker 4: a parent, Matt's been through it as a player. Uh,
Speaker 4: you guys need to hear this next on WBZ.
Speaker 1: Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio.
Speaker 4: Back here in Nightside, Gary Tang going in for Danny tonight,
Speaker 4: Cornell Men's lacrosse champions defenseman, Proud of Sebury, Mass. Matt
Speaker 4: Dooley joining us here. I was a great time down
Speaker 4: at Jillette Stadium Again, Danny Kraft, oh Craft family. They
Speaker 4: did a great job in hosting this event, and Matt
Speaker 4: in front of his parents, were family at hometown crowd,
Speaker 4: won a national championship. So that obviously was a great feeling.
Speaker 4: So now let's get to parents, Let's get through the
Speaker 4: real jerks. Okay of this whole thing. Now, speaking for myself,
Speaker 4: I never took the time to truly understand lacrosse because
Speaker 4: I didn't want to get upset. When I would watch
Speaker 4: basketball games, I would get upset because lord knows, I've
Speaker 4: covered enough of it. But I said, you know what,
Speaker 4: I'm just going to step back. And my son, who
Speaker 4: is a teammate of mask, I would try to talk
Speaker 4: to Lacrosse about him and he goes, just shut up, man,
Speaker 4: you just don't. You don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 4: So I have a young lax player second grade. What
Speaker 4: do I do as a parent?
Speaker 3: I think the first thing you can do, if your
Speaker 3: town offers it, is get him involved in the youth program.
Speaker 3: Here at in Sudbury, at Lincoln Sudbury, we're very fortunate
Speaker 3: to have an awesome youth program and awesome you know,
Speaker 3: high school program, and the high school program takes the
Speaker 3: time to or dedicates time to, you know, help grow
Speaker 3: the game with the youth program and make them feel
Speaker 3: part of it. So I think, if your first looking
Speaker 3: to get into the sport, you know, don't be afraid
Speaker 3: as well, just get right in with the youth program.
Speaker 3: When I started in second grade, you know, I didn't
Speaker 3: have the fanciest gear, the flashiest stick. You know, I
Speaker 3: think my mom took me over to the local brines
Speaker 3: and we kind of got like a starter pack, and
Speaker 3: I honestly got made fun of a little bit. But
Speaker 3: you know, I just want people to be easy. I
Speaker 3: think nowadays to get caught up in all the expensive gear,
Speaker 3: the flashy helmets, all that, but just taking the first
Speaker 3: step of getting your little kid in pads and you know,
Speaker 3: have them start throwing with kids in the youth program
Speaker 3: and just being a part of that. That's I think
Speaker 3: the best way to to get involved.
Speaker 4: Also talk about the importance of being ambidextrious. It's true.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you know, it took me a while, so
Speaker 3: I'm a natural righty. But you know, once you kind
Speaker 3: of get into seventh eighth grade, you you really have
Speaker 3: to start working on that off and less. I would
Speaker 3: say it's less important as a defenseman but all, but
Speaker 3: especially as an offensive player attack or midy, it's incredibly
Speaker 3: crucial and really helps you stand out against the competition.
Speaker 3: I would say, especially during recruiting as you get into
Speaker 3: high school, coaches will look for that, Hey, is this kid,
Speaker 3: you know, just dodging all with his right, shooting all
Speaker 3: with his right, or is the ambidextrous, because that can
Speaker 3: that can really help you stand out. And from a
Speaker 3: defenseman's perspective, that's really hard to guard because you're not
Speaker 3: really sure where to force them because they can score
Speaker 3: and make plays with both. And so I think that's
Speaker 3: something that youth players and players entering high school should
Speaker 3: fo focus on. Is you know, getting really fluent with
Speaker 3: both your hands, passing, shooting, picking up ground balls.
Speaker 4: What did your parents do right? What did they do wrong?
Speaker 4: What I would say, when do you push a kid?
Speaker 4: I guess that's what I say, because one of the
Speaker 4: things I struggled with is a parent with Van is like, yeah,
Speaker 4: when do I push him? And when do I just
Speaker 4: let the coaches do the job or do I just
Speaker 4: let the coaches do the job? You know, because you
Speaker 4: try to drop your kid off. You know you're going
Speaker 4: to I say, listen, I'm gonna drop my kid off.
Speaker 4: I'm going to pick my kid up, and that's all
Speaker 4: I'm going to do. But it just never works. You
Speaker 4: try to push them, You try to say some things,
Speaker 4: what's the balance?
Speaker 3: I would say what my parents did best? They were
Speaker 3: extremely supportive no matter what I did, and was very
Speaker 3: receptive to kind of what I told them and how
Speaker 3: I felt. So after second grade, when I told them,
Speaker 3: you know that I didn't want to play lacrosse anymore,
Speaker 3: they didn't push me. They were like, Okay, you know,
Speaker 3: you're only in second grade. I took a year off,
Speaker 3: got back into it fourth grade, and absolutely loved it.
Speaker 3: And then, you know, as I got older through middle school,
Speaker 3: a huge focus in our family was playing different sports
Speaker 3: and playing one sport season. So in the fall, I
Speaker 3: was purely focused on on football. In the in the winter,
Speaker 3: I was purely focused on basketball. And I think for me,
Speaker 3: once I got to the spring, I was so excited
Speaker 3: to pick up my lacrosse stick. And I wasn't, you know,
Speaker 3: burned out from playing lacrosse year round. I was just
Speaker 3: so excited to pick up my lacrosse stick and start
Speaker 3: that season and purely focused on that season, which I
Speaker 3: did all the way up until my sophomore year. And
Speaker 3: then I wanted to make the basketball team, varsity basketball team,
Speaker 3: so I decided to drop football, but obviously stuck with
Speaker 3: basketball lacrosse, and you know, we would have our spring season,
Speaker 3: our our summer tour ornaments, but then I would take
Speaker 3: a little break. You know, it wasn't like a year
Speaker 3: round thing that I did, which I think allowed me
Speaker 3: to kind of never burn out and always you know,
Speaker 3: once across season came around, absolutely love it and be
Speaker 3: so excited for it.
Speaker 4: Well, studies do show your kids should play multiple sports.
Speaker 4: I mean, we get into it. I mean we get
Speaker 4: parents are nuts. I mean it's just insane.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: And I my, you know, I remember, like I'll name
Speaker 4: drop the great Dave Cowens. I would talk to Dave
Speaker 4: and he'd run the summer camps, and Dave said he'd
Speaker 4: always get get the get these phone calls from parents.
Speaker 4: You know, mister Collens, my kid's really good, Like, I mean,
Speaker 4: he's really good, David like laugh, Okay, I'm sure he is.
Speaker 4: You know, you know the kid. The kid shows up,
Speaker 4: you know, and he's you know, maybe the know thirteen
Speaker 4: or fourteen, and he's going to be five ten at
Speaker 4: the most. And he's like, well, he better be muggy
Speaker 4: bogues if he's gonna you know. So, you know, our parents,
Speaker 4: especially this generation of parenthood, they lived, we lived through
Speaker 4: our kids so much it's just insane. Now your parents,
Speaker 4: you know, we haven't seen that with them, but you know,
Speaker 4: you see it with other people. And and that's really
Speaker 4: the problem is they look at their kids as a
Speaker 4: representation of their success. Like if my kid is not
Speaker 4: a College of lacrosse player, I failed, which is crazy.
Speaker 4: Your kid is your kid and and and they're separate
Speaker 4: from you. What advice would you have for a collegiate
Speaker 4: athlete as far as balancing your life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it can be a lot at times, especially especially
Speaker 3: like as a freshman arriving in the fall, it's your
Speaker 3: first time being away from the house. You're you know,
Speaker 3: you're adapting to the team, school all that. One piece
Speaker 3: of advice that kind of helped me balance everything, and
Speaker 3: I actually of credit to my mom for this is
Speaker 3: you know, kind of looking at the day as like
Speaker 3: if it's a work day, So if I, you know,
Speaker 3: get up at nine o'clock, I'm gonna, you know, if
Speaker 3: I have time throughout the day to get my homework
Speaker 3: done or do some extra work, whether that be like
Speaker 3: lacrossewise or academic. As soon as it you know, hits,
Speaker 3: let's say four o'clock and then we have a team
Speaker 3: lift until seven, I'm kinda you know, obviously there's some
Speaker 3: alliers when you gotta test the next day you gotta
Speaker 3: study late at night, but for the most part, I
Speaker 3: would try and get all of my academic work between
Speaker 3: kind of nine and four o'clock or nine and seven o'clock,
Speaker 3: which really allowed me to kind of take a deep
Speaker 3: breath at night, relax, be with my friends, and not
Speaker 3: get overwhelmed. So that was kind of a really really
Speaker 3: nice way to look at things. Is kind of looking
Speaker 3: at it like a work day, like I'm going to
Speaker 3: work nine to four, all my academic stuff done, go
Speaker 3: to class, then we have team activities and then enjoy
Speaker 3: the night, get a good meal, and get some rest.
Speaker 3: So I think that was kind of the biggest piece
Speaker 3: that helped me maintain my balance these last three years.
Speaker 4: Matt, great job, thanks for coming on. Van Tangwi did
Speaker 4: say to me, I said, I'm having you know, Matt
Speaker 4: Dooley on lacrosse player, and he like looked at like
Speaker 4: gave me a look like, well, why not me? I
Speaker 4: should go win a national championship then we can talk.
Speaker 1: Matt.
Speaker 4: Congratulations and I know mom and Dad, Bob and Amy
Speaker 4: Dudles are proud and way to go, and thanks for
Speaker 4: coming on. I think you had a lot of great
Speaker 4: things to say and hopefully parents were listening.
Speaker 3: Awesome, Thank you so much. Gary. I'm sure I'll see
Speaker 3: you around town, for sure.
Speaker 4: See you around town. Take care all right. Matt Duley
Speaker 4: national champion with Cornell University as they won the Division
Speaker 4: One championship down in Foxborough. And I could tell you
Speaker 4: as a parent, my youngest is a lacrosse player, and
Speaker 4: then I went through with my son who's playing college
Speaker 4: lacrosse now as well. The best advice I could give
Speaker 4: you is keep your mouth shut and let the coaches
Speaker 4: do the work. It's hard to do though. It's hard,
Speaker 4: like you know, why don't you shoot it there? Or
Speaker 4: why don't you do that? And it's hard, but you
Speaker 4: really can't. You gotta. You gotta let the coaches do
Speaker 4: the work. And if your kid loves it, they love it.
Speaker 4: You can't make your kid love something. You can't. It's
Speaker 4: just it's you can't love it for them. And I
Speaker 4: know this is common sense, but when it's when it's
Speaker 4: your own kid, it's just different. When it's your own kid,
Speaker 4: common sense goes out the window. I've seen it happen
Speaker 4: a million times. I've seen it happen with professional coaches.
Speaker 4: Professional coaches, they start talking about their kid like they're
Speaker 4: gonna make the NBA happens to all of us. Uh.
Speaker 4: Coming up next, Todd Fernard joins us from Fernard Properties.
Speaker 4: Is it better to work from home or get your
Speaker 4: ass in the office. That's next on WBZ.