Speaker 1: The nineteen forties were a time in North America where
Speaker 1: segregation was very prominent, keeping the lives of white and
Speaker 1: black people as separate as possible. It was tough for
Speaker 1: many people, but in particular, it was tough for a
Speaker 1: young man by the name of George. George would find
Speaker 1: himself in the center of a murder case, and it
Speaker 1: was a young black man versus an entire system of
Speaker 1: white individuals looking dependent on him for all the wrong reasons.
Speaker 1: As a result, George would be left without any legal
Speaker 1: defense and on the receiving end of a conviction, dealing
Speaker 1: him a death sentence at the age of only fourteen
Speaker 1: years old. This is the story of George. Stinny. My
Speaker 1: name's Ben, I'm.
Speaker 2: Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked Angrim, a true crime podcast.
Speaker 1: The following audience listener.
Speaker 2: Keeping a short and sweet, Keeping a short and sweet.
Speaker 1: Hit the button, I hit the button, hit the button,
Speaker 1: were recording, We got our drinks were chilling, and we're
Speaker 1: going to keep it short and sweet. So let's go
Speaker 1: right into Patreon today.
Speaker 2: Hill, Yes, do it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So we had a lot of people to think who
Speaker 1: signed up over on Patreon If you're interested links down
Speaker 1: below you can get a lot of behind the scenes
Speaker 1: stuff and exclusive content. And today we got to thank
Speaker 1: and pre show and pre show.
Speaker 2: We just did a pre show. That's exclusive content, right,
Speaker 2: tuche it is, I guess.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So we got to thank Darien bnot Petra Bogger,
Speaker 1: Lorraine Olander and I'm gonna probably get your name wrong,
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna try Jillydore or Gilly Door. I don't know, okay,
Speaker 1: but one of the two awesome. Either way. We appreciate
Speaker 1: the shit out of you think shinning up and supporting
Speaker 1: us over means a lot.
Speaker 2: It really does, It really does.
Speaker 1: So it's early in the morning, we barely have our
Speaker 1: wits about us. Thankfully. I have coffee. Nicole doesn't, but
Speaker 1: she's not a coffee drink.
Speaker 2: Well green tea though, right, caffeinated.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's caffeine in there. Touche touche. But I think
Speaker 1: us maybe not being super high on energy today may
Speaker 1: be beneficial for this case, because I think it's one
Speaker 1: of those ones that we really need to like, let's
Speaker 1: sink in on what the fuck happened here?
Speaker 2: Yeah? You did? This is one that you mentioned a
Speaker 2: bit to me about.
Speaker 1: It's like well, I think I only really told her
Speaker 1: what was said in the intro of this basically yea,
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's it's kind of fucked up. It's super
Speaker 1: shitty what happened. And it's very interesting to see where
Speaker 1: the support actually even some of the support came from
Speaker 1: for George throughout this case. But we're going to get
Speaker 1: into this. I don't want to give too much away.
Speaker 1: So you ready to just go into the story of
Speaker 1: George Stinty. Yeah, okay, I totally am. Okay, Well, his
Speaker 1: story is fucked up, but it centers around, you know him,
Speaker 1: It centers around George Stinney. Now, George was a fourteen
Speaker 1: year old boy from a place called al Kalou, which
Speaker 1: is in South Carolina, and this story takes place. We're
Speaker 1: going back to nineteen forty.
Speaker 2: Four, Okay, way back.
Speaker 1: So George was just about five foot one inch tall
Speaker 1: and weighed between ninety and ninety five pounds and lived
Speaker 1: in a modest home with his family, which included his father,
Speaker 1: George Stinny Senior, his mother Amy Brown Stinny, his brother Charles,
Speaker 1: and his sisters Catherine and Amy. Now the family lived
Speaker 1: together in a company owned housing unit. Now this was
Speaker 1: part of the working conditions where George's father worked. So
Speaker 1: he worked at a local sawmill and as such, you know,
Speaker 1: anyone who worked there got to live in like the
Speaker 1: housing units for the company. Okay, I think it's very
Speaker 1: kind of kind of similar to how it's like when
Speaker 1: you're like out doing like camp work. You know, yeah,
Speaker 1: something kind of like that. But by the sounds of it,
Speaker 1: you know, they are still in a town. It's it's
Speaker 1: just that same application. But yeah, well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially to back then, wasn't it more normal right
Speaker 2: to have your work also provide your housing, I think, so,
Speaker 2: I mean that's I don't know, I kind of like that,
Speaker 2: but it probably it might not have been the best
Speaker 2: of housing too, right.
Speaker 1: So yeah, who knows. And I mean if you lose
Speaker 1: your job, then you lose your house too, so true,
Speaker 1: which I mean for a lot of people that's the
Speaker 1: case anyways, because they just can't afford it.
Speaker 2: Then, right.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so the town where they live, though, Alkalou
Speaker 1: was a small working class town typical in the South
Speaker 1: during the era. Now, however, it is much different than
Speaker 1: what you're probably really picturing. It is kind of today.
Speaker 1: This had railroad tracks running right down the middle and
Speaker 1: where these tracks ran right through the town, it created
Speaker 1: a line that divided the white community from the black community.
Speaker 1: Oh jeez, yeah, that whole segregation era, right, George and
Speaker 1: his family were living on the segregated black community side,
Speaker 1: and interaction between both neighborhoods, the white neighborhood and the
Speaker 1: black neighborhood was absolutely minimal. For example, there were separate schools,
Speaker 1: there were separate churches, there was separate shopping centers for
Speaker 1: each race. This era in history was a harsh reality
Speaker 1: of segregation that is still hard for many people to
Speaker 1: face and understand today. The racist the segregation, it was
Speaker 1: just all rampant at the time, especially in South Carolina,
Speaker 1: Carolina and across the southern United States. So this segregation
Speaker 1: had even been legally enforced from the late nineteenth century
Speaker 1: up until the mid twentieth century and aim to uphold
Speaker 1: white dominance after slavery was was abolished. So it actually
Speaker 1: went for like a lot longer than many people are
Speaker 1: really aware for. And yeah, I mean there's still residual
Speaker 1: stuff playing today, which is terrible, but that's unfortunately the
Speaker 1: world we're living in today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've come aways, but gosh, there's always further you
Speaker 2: can go, right, Oh, that we should go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So African Americans were forced to endure separate but
Speaker 1: equal facilities. You know, as I mentioned all these different
Speaker 1: places being like, oh, you get a shopping center and
Speaker 1: we get a shopping center. They're separate but equal. But yeah,
Speaker 1: they were not equal. They were often very inferior in quality,
Speaker 1: and they face a lot of systemic eclusion from political
Speaker 1: as well economic and social opportunities. This whole equal thing, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was not equal whatsoever. So that brings us into
Speaker 1: March twenty third, nineteen forty four, eleven year old Betty
Speaker 1: June Binnaker and seven year old Mary Elma Thames set
Speaker 1: out on their bikes and so of some flowers. They're
Speaker 1: gonna go pick some flowers for the day, right, So
Speaker 1: as they rode through the town, they encountered George Stinney,
Speaker 1: you know, the fourteen year old boy that we were
Speaker 1: just talking about, and his younger sister Amy. The girl
Speaker 1: stopped to ask the siblings if they knew where they
Speaker 1: could find may pops, which were an edible fruit from
Speaker 1: a passion flower. Now, tragically, in this conversation, in this
Speaker 1: encounter with George and his sister Amy. This this would
Speaker 1: be the last time these two girls were seen alive.
Speaker 2: Oh Man.
Speaker 1: Betty June Binnaker and Mary Emma Thames, both white, never
Speaker 1: returned home, sparking a massive search involving hundreds of Alkalo residents,
Speaker 1: including George Sr. George's father.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The next day the two girls were found. Their lifeless
Speaker 1: bodies were discovered in a water logged ditch on the
Speaker 1: backside of the tracks, on the black side of the tracks.
Speaker 2: When they were asking about out the flowers or whatever,
Speaker 2: what side were they on.
Speaker 1: You know, off hand or I don't know, I'm not certain.
Speaker 1: I'm going to assume they were over on the black
Speaker 1: segregated side, because I would imagine that, you know, whites
Speaker 1: would feel much more comfortable crossing that.
Speaker 2: Line than the other way around, right right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Doctor Asbury Cecil Bozard, who examined the girls,
Speaker 1: found no obvious signs of struggle, but their death had
Speaker 1: been brutal. Mary had a hole punched through her forehead
Speaker 1: into her skull and a deep cut above her right eyebrow,
Speaker 1: while Betty had sustained at least seven blows to the head,
Speaker 1: leaving the back of her skull shattered beyond recognition. Ohly shit, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a fucking it was a brutal one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and these are kids.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So doctor Bozard concluded that the girls had been
Speaker 1: beaten with something to inflict these failed injuries, but it
Speaker 1: was unclear on exactly what was used in their murder.
Speaker 1: It is suggested by many that was a piece of
Speaker 1: blunt metal, perhaps a railroad spike, or possibly a hammer
Speaker 1: and to quote the medical examiner quote, inflicted by a
Speaker 1: blunt instrument with a round head the size about sorry
Speaker 1: about the size of a hammer.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so it probably was then.
Speaker 1: Very well could have been, that's for sure. Or I
Speaker 1: mean you're at railway track. There's lots of times railway spikes,
Speaker 1: you know, laying around or whatever one comes loose like
Speaker 1: things like that, right, right, so yeah. The medical examiner
Speaker 1: did also investigate further into their autopsy and did not
Speaker 1: find any evidence of sexual assault, though there was reported
Speaker 1: bruising on one of the girl's genitalia, but not attributed
Speaker 1: to sexual assault. Okay, yeah, I mean maybe she like
Speaker 1: riding bikes or something. Maybe she did a little jump,
Speaker 1: like who knows, there's a million things something that could
Speaker 1: come from maybe wrestling with a sibling she got kicked
Speaker 1: or booted, like who knows it was, but he was
Speaker 1: not attributed to sexual assault, which is important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so damn sad though, though, Like they were
Speaker 2: just going out for a ride looking for freaking flowers.
Speaker 1: Yep, damn, I'm just out trying to find maypops, which
Speaker 1: in itself is like one of the most innocent fucking
Speaker 1: things you can think of. Yeah, and it ends in murder.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just like it just makes you how your
Speaker 2: heart just like I don't almost shiver up and shiver up,
Speaker 2: shrivel up, shrivel die. Yeah.
Speaker 1: God, Well, it's like something that's so innocent turns so
Speaker 1: dark so fast, and it's just like, why the fuck
Speaker 1: was that taken away?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: But so now there is a bit of a problem here.
Speaker 1: Despite the circulating rumors that the girls had been visited
Speaker 1: by a very prominent white family on that day, the
Speaker 1: very day that they were murdered, the authority showed very
Speaker 1: little interest in pursuing any of the leads that might
Speaker 1: suggest this potential white perpetrator was at Las large.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because that would be too hard, right.
Speaker 1: Instead, when a witness mentioned seeing the girls speak with George,
Speaker 1: the police immediately went to his home.
Speaker 2: That's some serious bullshit right there.
Speaker 1: Yep. Now, George and his older brother were arrested on
Speaker 1: suspicion of murdering the girls and were taken away in handcuffs.
Speaker 2: That is just some serious bullshit right there, yep.
Speaker 1: Specifically because someone said I saw them talk and they.
Speaker 2: Were literally just talking, helping them try to find some
Speaker 2: fucking flowers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they were taken away in handcuffs like that.
Speaker 2: Oh boy.
Speaker 1: Now, after a while, George's brother was released by the police,
Speaker 1: but George, on the other hand, was held in custody.
Speaker 1: George was interrogated for hours without the presence of his parents,
Speaker 1: without the presence of legal counsel or any witnesses at all,
Speaker 1: which means it was George and the police for hours.
Speaker 2: Which is like, is that even allowed? It's not nowadays,
Speaker 2: but like it have been then, I don't even know.
Speaker 1: Technically would not have been.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: Oh so Now, the next day, on March twenty fourth,
Speaker 1: nineteen forty four, while George was still in custody, the newspaper,
Speaker 1: the wire Service as it was called, printed an article
Speaker 1: regarding the whole situation and on this article, they announced
Speaker 1: that George was arrested in relation for the murder.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: But the paper had also heard word from the police
Speaker 1: that George had made a confession in questioning and printed
Speaker 1: that as well. George Stinney was officially being charged with
Speaker 1: the murder of the two girls.
Speaker 2: Man, that's wild, hey, Like, do they not have an
Speaker 2: innocent until proven guilty thing back then? And like the
Speaker 2: newspaper is just freaking releasing this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I know for a fact that there
Speaker 1: was proper trials. I mean, they gave people proper trials
Speaker 1: before nineteen forty. But the fact of race just played
Speaker 1: such a big card in this. So like, oh, he's
Speaker 1: fucking guilty. And also, like, listen to this because according
Speaker 1: to a handwritten statement made by the arresting officer, HS Newman,
Speaker 1: So this is where the big thing comes in. They're
Speaker 1: taking this officer's word for it. He stated, quote, I
Speaker 1: arrested a boy by the name of George Stinney. He
Speaker 1: then made a confession and told me where to find
Speaker 1: a piece of iron about fifteen inches where he said
Speaker 1: he put it in a ditch about six feet from
Speaker 1: the bicycles. So this officer is claiming George confessed and
Speaker 1: showed him where the murder weapon was. However, he did
Speaker 1: not have a murder weapon. No one witnessed this confession.
Speaker 1: It's just this officer's statement.
Speaker 2: Wow, hey, which is.
Speaker 1: A white officer versus a black kid?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Okay, yeah, that is not all right.
Speaker 1: No, So during all this, while George was being held,
Speaker 1: he was not allowed to see his parents, and they
Speaker 1: said until after the trial and any convictions that were
Speaker 1: to follow as well. They were holding him and that
Speaker 1: was that.
Speaker 2: And he's like fourteen fourteen, So they're just like pushing
Speaker 2: a big old easy button really instead of drewing their job.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. And they're doing that because they're fucking
Speaker 1: racist pieces of shit. Yeah yeah wow. So, now, as
Speaker 1: a result of the murders and the subsequent arrest of George,
Speaker 1: his father, George Senior, was fired from his job at
Speaker 1: the sawmill.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Course the entire family to vacate their company provided house
Speaker 1: in Alkalou. Now I'm not too sure what they did
Speaker 1: after this, but as far as I can guess, my
Speaker 1: best guess is that they did have to actually flee
Speaker 1: Alkalou because there was a lot of issues with this
Speaker 1: case and threats and everything. Well, yeah, so they were
Speaker 1: not even around to provide support for George if it
Speaker 1: was even granted. But it wasn't even granted, you know,
Speaker 1: so they had to leave for their own safety. Now,
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, they were coming back. They were
Speaker 1: like around when they needed to be. It was just like,
Speaker 1: we can't be living here or find another house here.
Speaker 1: We got to go like next town overs.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, the town wouldn't have allowed them to.
Speaker 1: No, And actually, like George was, they had to be
Speaker 1: careful with George too, because there's a lot of issues,
Speaker 1: like they're concerned that people were going to like lynch
Speaker 1: them and just take justice into their own hands sort
Speaker 1: of thing. Oh okay, they're like, no, we gotta take
Speaker 1: care of it, not you guys. Right. So, during his
Speaker 1: eighty one day confinement and brief trial, which we'll talk
Speaker 1: about here in a bit, George wasn't able to receive
Speaker 1: any support and that includes, like I said, already with
Speaker 1: his family, but it goes beyond that, which again in
Speaker 1: the trial we will touch on. But he was detained
Speaker 1: in the jail in Columbia, South Carolina, about fifty miles
Speaker 1: away and that's where they actually held him because of
Speaker 1: the threat of the lynching, so they couldn't even hold
Speaker 1: him in the town either. Okay, So this isolation only
Speaker 1: made the whole tragedy of George's ordeal worse for him,
Speaker 1: as he was reportedly faced he faced this whole process
Speaker 1: without any legal guidance, like he had legal defense, but
Speaker 1: he didn't. We'll get into it. So the whole legal
Speaker 1: process against George moved forward with a really fast pace,
Speaker 1: beginning just a month after his arrest. On April twenty fourth,
Speaker 1: nineteen forty four, the jury selection and trial were completed
Speaker 1: in a single day. George was represented by a man
Speaker 1: named Charles Plowden, a court appointed attorney who just so
Speaker 1: happened to be a tax commissioner running for local office.
Speaker 2: Okay, which says, what, wow, do you want to go
Speaker 2: ahead and take your thoughts on that or do you
Speaker 2: want me to say it? You say it.
Speaker 1: He wants to be popular with the public, so he
Speaker 1: is going to just do what the public wants because
Speaker 1: he's like, hey, my motivation is basically saying that I
Speaker 1: want to stay in the good graces of the white
Speaker 1: majority here because I'm pretty sure blacks at the time
Speaker 1: weren't even allowed to fucking vote.
Speaker 2: Holy shit. Hey, so he's all like.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna please the white folk and I'm gonna yeah, holy.
Speaker 2: This this case is just like gonna break my fucking heart.
Speaker 2: This is brutal.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's fucked. It is fucked. So the attorney, Charles Plowden,
Speaker 1: did not contest the testimony of the three officers who
Speaker 1: actually went and stood try and stood up on stand
Speaker 1: during the trial. And these officers claimed that George had
Speaker 1: confessed to the murders of Betty June Minaker and Mary
Speaker 1: Emma Thames.
Speaker 2: But they had it doesn't seem like they probably had
Speaker 2: a lick of evidence.
Speaker 1: No, they had no proof nothing. It was just their word.
Speaker 1: And even if he did confess, you're telling me, it's
Speaker 1: not gonna be coerced from being in a fucking locked
Speaker 1: up room.
Speaker 2: With officers for oh yeah, like who knows what the
Speaker 2: fuck they were doing to him exactly. Now.
Speaker 1: Furthermore, this fucking plowed in douchebag. He didn't even address
Speaker 1: the inconsistencies in the prosecution's case that were present, which
Speaker 1: were two conflicting versions of George's supposed confession. One account,
Speaker 1: George allegedly killed the girls in self defense after they
Speaker 1: attacked him when he tried to assist one of them
Speaker 1: that had fallen in the ditch. And then the other
Speaker 1: version of the confession, George was said to have followed
Speaker 1: the girls, first attacking Mary and then returning to attack Betty. Okay,
Speaker 1: so on these alleged confessions, there's not even consistency in
Speaker 1: the confessions.
Speaker 2: Wow, but it doesn't even matter really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this fucking plowed and douche didn't even fucking
Speaker 1: speak up on that shit. He's just like me whatever.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because he's not there, he like his intention
Speaker 2: is not to help George whatsoever.
Speaker 1: No, his intention is probably to make him fucking go down.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: There was no written or signed confession from George. There
Speaker 1: was only evidence of a confession. A sorry. The only
Speaker 1: evidence of a confession came from a statement made by
Speaker 1: the officer earlier, which was the one who who was
Speaker 1: the arresting officer, said that he found he led me
Speaker 1: to the murder weapon and all this sort of shit.
Speaker 1: It was just the written statement from the officer. That's
Speaker 1: the only piece of evidence of any confession that ever
Speaker 1: came forward, which was not even a piece of evidence
Speaker 1: at all, because I can easily write on a piece
Speaker 1: of paper, Nicole just confess that I'm the sexiest man alive.
Speaker 1: And you're like, no, Channing Tatum clearly, Henry Cavill like.
Speaker 2: What the fuck?
Speaker 1: But like you see what I mean though, right, Like,
Speaker 1: just because you write something down doesn't mean fuck all.
Speaker 2: No, yeah, I mean, anyone can write whatever the fuck
Speaker 2: they want exactly.
Speaker 1: So, despite these glaring issues, the defense attorney did not
Speaker 1: challenge the validity of the alleged confessions or anything else
Speaker 1: at all for that matter. The prosecution also presented testimony
Speaker 1: of three witnesses, Reverend Francis Bastin, who was one the
Speaker 1: one who actually discovered the bodies of the two girls,
Speaker 1: along with the two doctors who conducted the post mortem examination. Now,
Speaker 1: despite the examiner, as I already mentioned, saying there was
Speaker 1: no sexual assault that occurred, the court decided they would
Speaker 1: permit the discussion of the possibility of rape based on
Speaker 1: the bruising mentioned in the report that was found. Oh boy,
Speaker 1: so the fucking dude. The medical examiners like, she was
Speaker 1: not raped.
Speaker 2: But the court now they're like, well maybe she was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, They're like, well, there was a bruise you found,
Speaker 1: let's discuss the possibility of George raping her, Like, are
Speaker 1: you fucking kidding?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, okay, I'm just like literally all I
Speaker 2: can think about is just like George sitting there like
Speaker 2: no support whatsoever, and just like I don't even know
Speaker 2: what would be going through his mind because he's so young, lady,
Speaker 2: he's a kid.
Speaker 1: Well from his perspective. It gets worse here. I'll touch
Speaker 1: on it in just one second, because yeah, he had
Speaker 1: no one in the court with him, even his defense.
Speaker 1: His family wasn't present, but we'll get into that shortly.
Speaker 1: So his attorney didn't call a single witness to stand.
Speaker 1: He also did not cross examine any of those brought
Speaker 1: by the prosecutions. Yeah, he did nothing, did nothing, not
Speaker 1: even a single question of cross examination.
Speaker 2: Nothing.
Speaker 1: The entire presentation of the case lasted just two and
Speaker 1: a half hours, and at that time George was left
Speaker 1: quite literally defenseless. So, as I mentioned, we're going to
Speaker 1: touch on how his perspective was in that courtroom. To
Speaker 1: make matters even worse for fourteen year old George, the
Speaker 1: courtroom was filled with over one thousand white spectators, while
Speaker 1: black citizens, including his own family, were barred from attention.
Speaker 2: Allowed in like, so he was literally the only person
Speaker 2: of color in there.
Speaker 1: Correct, because this also extended to the jury as well,
Speaker 1: which was composed entirely of white individuals, which was common
Speaker 1: for the era.
Speaker 2: Right, Holy, you gotta be fucking me.
Speaker 1: You have one colored fourteen year.
Speaker 2: Old, wow, wow, wow.
Speaker 1: With over a thousand people of a different color who
Speaker 1: are racist as fuck coming after you, without any evidence,
Speaker 1: without any defense, with a very one sided fucking jury,
Speaker 1: and given the intense fucking racist time that they were in,
Speaker 1: it's clear that George was denied whatsoever a fair trial,
Speaker 1: not even fucking close.
Speaker 2: No, like they shouldn't even bother.
Speaker 1: No, it was basically a fucking puppet show for their
Speaker 1: own fucking egos.
Speaker 2: But meanwhile, I mean, meanwhile, there's someone who actually did
Speaker 2: this crime to these two girls, I'm assuming right, just
Speaker 2: running probably in there, probably in there, oh, which is
Speaker 2: just so disgusting, Like that means you want to vomit.
Speaker 1: Yep. So, the jury of as I mentioned, all white individuals,
Speaker 1: took less than ten minutes to deliberate, course they did,
Speaker 1: before they found George guilty of the murders of the
Speaker 1: two girls. As a result, Judge Philip H. Stole swiftly
Speaker 1: sentenced George to death by electrocution, bringing a devastating end
Speaker 1: to these fucked up proceedings.
Speaker 2: But everyone was probably just like stoked everyone in there.
Speaker 2: I wrote this probably.
Speaker 1: Now as if this whole court preceding situation the trial
Speaker 1: wasn't bad enough to add to the injustice. There were
Speaker 1: no transcripts that exist of the trial, leaving no official
Speaker 1: record to confirm whether the trial was conducted fairly or
Speaker 1: based on sufficient evidence.
Speaker 2: Well, because it wasn't exactly.
Speaker 1: So they made sure there was no fucking transcript up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, I don't even quite understand the fucking point
Speaker 2: of any of this shit, as I say it, just
Speaker 2: stroking their own fucking ego. Wow, Okay, just picture.
Speaker 1: Like a fucking uh some officer or whatever who's all like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I got him, Yeah, I caught him right away. He
Speaker 1: confessed to me, I found the fucking murder weapon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I saw the case.
Speaker 2: You know. Well, I mean people are probably also you know, scared,
Speaker 2: right because of this brutal thing happening at the in
Speaker 2: their community or town or whatever, and so they're just
Speaker 2: wanting to like as quickly as possible to ease people's mind.
Speaker 2: I guess in the you know, easiest way possible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure that it's.
Speaker 2: Not gonna happen again. We have the person like they're
Speaker 2: gonna pay for this.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So without any of the fucking documentation though, like,
Speaker 1: without any transcript from the trial, it would have been
Speaker 1: extremely easy to have appealed the case, right, Yeah, So
Speaker 1: if the defense team would have appealed, it would have
Speaker 1: been a fucking slam dunk because of there's no proof
Speaker 1: of any evidence. There's no proof of a fair trial.
Speaker 1: There's no proof of anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But who would have done that, right.
Speaker 1: Not George's attorney, because he didn't for appeal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't do shit at all.
Speaker 1: No, he did not do a fucking thing. I quite
Speaker 1: literally left George to face this defenseless. He's supposed to
Speaker 1: be the fucking defense and he left him defenseless.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, and probably got paid doing it too, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the black community was left in shock and disbelief.
Speaker 1: George's family, along with the local churches and the NAACP,
Speaker 1: which is a National Association for the Advancement of Colored People,
Speaker 1: appealed for clemency, which is a pardon, arguing that his
Speaker 1: age should be taken into account. Now, interestingly enough, many
Speaker 1: of the pleas for this pardon actually did come from
Speaker 1: white people, white women from South Carolina. Some of the
Speaker 1: pleas included expressions of white supremacy, but they still express
Speaker 1: discomfort with the idea of executing someone so fucking young.
Speaker 1: So you even have white supremists saying he needs a
Speaker 1: pardon he's a kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So that.
Speaker 1: Shows how fucked like you literally have a situation where
Speaker 1: it's it's like a mob mentality where they just fucking
Speaker 1: saw Red wanted to take him down, and that's what
Speaker 1: they did. So yeah, like they literally had these people
Speaker 1: sending in letters, but they didn't care. They just saw.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the decision was already made. It was like it
Speaker 2: was made, I mean the day after the murders, So
Speaker 2: clearly there was like there would have been absolutely no
Speaker 2: time to do anything of like finding, you know, any
Speaker 2: sort of proof that he actually did this.
Speaker 1: The decision was made on the day of the murders
Speaker 1: because they ran the article.
Speaker 2: The day after, Okay, yea, so.
Speaker 1: It was already made the day of Holy Holy they
Speaker 1: arrested him that same fucking day.
Speaker 2: What a disservice. Yeah, that is unreal.
Speaker 1: So it seems that despite the racism of the era,
Speaker 1: there were a significant number of white visuals who spoke
Speaker 1: out against his conviction and they felt it was unjust.
Speaker 1: But however, there was also the strong contingent of people
Speaker 1: urging the governor to allow the execution to proceed as well.
Speaker 1: There's both sides to the coin. Now, there is a
Speaker 1: letter from Olin D. Johnson, who was the governor when
Speaker 1: he wrote to a wrote a response to one of
Speaker 1: the appeals for pardon, and I think it shows where
Speaker 1: he sided on with this debate. So in that letter
Speaker 1: he says this quote, I have just talked with the
Speaker 1: officer who made the arrest in the case. It may
Speaker 1: be interesting for you to know that Stinny killed the
Speaker 1: smaller girl to rape the larger one. Then he killed
Speaker 1: the larger girl and raped her dead body. Twenty minutes
Speaker 1: later he returned and attempted to rape her again, but
Speaker 1: her body was too cold. All of this he admitted himself.
Speaker 1: The fuck yeah, he did not admit shit. The examiner
Speaker 1: said there was no fucking rape like and this is
Speaker 1: what the fucking the governor is saying happened.
Speaker 2: H wow, Okay, like who who is? I don't know?
Speaker 2: That just just such a story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just more claims with no facts to back
Speaker 1: anything up.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, he George was just with his brother the whole time, right,
Speaker 2: I'm sure And they probably never asked asked him anything.
Speaker 1: Probably not so. Leading up to the day of George's execution,
Speaker 1: George was only allowed to see his parents one time.
Speaker 1: Other than that, he was forced to face all of
Speaker 1: this on his own, and on Friday, June sixteenth, nineteen
Speaker 1: forty four, at seven thirty a m. George was led
Speaker 1: out of his cell at fourteen years old into a
Speaker 1: room with an electric chair sitting in the middle. Officers
Speaker 1: seated him on the chair and began preparing him, but
Speaker 1: they found he was too small for the chair given
Speaker 1: his age, so they apparently used a Bible as a
Speaker 1: booster seat to ensure he was seated properly. He was
Speaker 1: then restrained by his arms, his legs, and body, strapping
Speaker 1: him into the chair. An officer asked George if he
Speaker 1: had any last words to say before the execution took place.
Speaker 1: George looked at the officer and kept his emotions under
Speaker 1: control as best he could, and with respect. He shook
Speaker 1: his head and said, no, sir. The executioner pulled a
Speaker 1: strap from the chair's head piece and placed it over
Speaker 1: George's chin and mouth. In this moment, George was no
Speaker 1: longer able to keep his composure, and the young man
Speaker 1: broke out into tears as the final piece was being
Speaker 1: strapped onto him. Finally, a face mask was placed over
Speaker 1: his face, which again was too big. Now though no
Speaker 1: one could see his expression, you could still hear his
Speaker 1: crying echoing through the room. Executioner was given to go ahead,
Speaker 1: and the electricity was finally applied to George. The mask
Speaker 1: that was too big for him apparently fell off. It
Speaker 1: slipped from his face, and the mix of pain from
Speaker 1: the lethal electricity that was flowing through him and tears
Speaker 1: streaming from his eyes was the last bit of emotion
Speaker 1: anyone saw on him. He was soon pronounced dead. Holy shit,
Speaker 1: there are I do want to say this. There are, however,
Speaker 1: some who contest that the book he sat on and
Speaker 1: the masks slipping off his face were rumors, but either way,
Speaker 1: the emotions were high. There are pictures of him being
Speaker 1: strapped in with tears streaming down his face that were
Speaker 1: taken in those moments and he lost his life all
Speaker 1: as a result of this unfair trial.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then to have the opportunity to speak and
Speaker 2: just and just say like no, still in like being respectful,
Speaker 2: you know, yeap, Oh my gosh, like he just knew
Speaker 2: that there was nothing that he could do.
Speaker 1: Yeah. George's body would be buried in an unmarked grave
Speaker 1: at the Cavalry Baptist Church cemetery in Lee County, South Carolina.
Speaker 2: So still just completely disrespecting him.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, over the decades of time passing and the
Speaker 1: story of George Stinny going down in history as a
Speaker 1: case of an innocent boy being killed due to a
Speaker 1: racist era, while the real killer potentially walked free as
Speaker 1: time passed on. Eventually, in two thousand and four, George Fearson,
Speaker 1: a local historian who grew up in Alkalou, started researching
Speaker 1: the case after reading a newspaper article about it. His
Speaker 1: work gained the attention of South Carolina lawyer Steve Mackenzie
Speaker 1: and Matt Burgers. Together, they and several others who began
Speaker 1: joining along the way contributed countless hours of research and
Speaker 1: review of historical documents and found witnesses and evidence to
Speaker 1: assist in exonerating George Stinney's name. As a result of
Speaker 1: their hard work. In twenty fourteen, efforts to overturn the
Speaker 1: conviction gained momentum with support from several groups and pro
Speaker 1: bono lawyers. They appealed to the South Carolina Pardon and
Speaker 1: Parole Board and filed a motion for a new trial.
Speaker 1: The legal team urged that George was convicted without any
Speaker 1: solid evidence. His alleged confession was unrecorded, was unsigned, and
Speaker 1: likely coerced if it even happened at all. Moreover, his
Speaker 1: defense attorney failed to call witnesses who could have proven
Speaker 1: his innocence or preserved his right to appeal. New evidence emerged,
Speaker 1: including testimonies from George's siblings who claimed that he was
Speaker 1: with them at the time of the murders, and an
Speaker 1: affidavit suggesting that the girls might have been killed elsewhere
Speaker 1: and then dumped at the tracks.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, and this is just done.
Speaker 1: This is done like in the two thousands.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like twenty fourteen, and he was convicted like nineteen
Speaker 2: forty four.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: And they're able to like figure this out that long,
Speaker 2: like that, with that much time passing, yep, Like not
Speaker 2: easily but.
Speaker 1: Imagine what they could have fucking done if they investigated
Speaker 1: at the time. Now, a fellow inmate also testified. This
Speaker 1: fellow in mate of George at the time testified that
Speaker 1: George maintained his innocence while behind bars, and that George
Speaker 1: said he was forced to confess thanks to the work
Speaker 1: of so many people and the retrial on George Stinney.
Speaker 1: On December sixteenth, twenty fourteen, seventy years after he had
Speaker 1: been convicted and killed, Judge Carmen Mullin overturned George's conviction,
Speaker 1: ruling that he had not received a fair trial and
Speaker 1: that his rights had been violated, and ruled George Stinney innocent.
Speaker 2: Wow, like he would have been he could have still
Speaker 2: been alive eighty four.
Speaker 1: She concluded that executing a fourteen year old was cruel
Speaker 1: and unusual punishment and criticized the legal process that led
Speaker 1: to his conviction, stating that it was that little was
Speaker 1: done to protect him or his life at all.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is great, I guess, but it's just like,
Speaker 2: what's the point at this, Like it's a little too late,
Speaker 2: you know, it is.
Speaker 1: It is it's at least clearing his name legally but
Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's still so messed so George's exoneration. Since
Speaker 1: his exoneration, I should say sorry, speculation has emerged around
Speaker 1: who the individual truly was behind the murders. So man
Speaker 1: by the name of George Washington Burke Junior, not George
Speaker 1: Washington the freaking President, but George Washington Burke Junior, the
Speaker 1: son of a wealthy white businessman, came into the picture
Speaker 1: as a possible suspect. Now. He died in nineteen forty seven,
Speaker 1: just to few years after the murders, at the age
Speaker 1: of twenty nine. Now, Apparently, George's mother briefly worked for
Speaker 1: the Burke family, and according to his sister, their mother
Speaker 1: once mentioned that Burke Senior made unwanted advances towards her,
Speaker 1: prompting their father to insist she stopped working for them. Okay,
Speaker 1: It was rumored that the Burke boys actually framed George
Speaker 1: for the murders because of this incident. Notably, Burke Senior
Speaker 1: led the initial search for the girls, owned the land
Speaker 1: where the bodies were found, Oh my God, and was
Speaker 1: the foreman of the grand jury that convicted George, raising
Speaker 1: suspicions that he may have deflected blame. Oh yeah, son,
Speaker 1: so you mentioned that fucking murderer may have very well
Speaker 1: been in the courtroom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he had a big part in the courtroom.
Speaker 1: You betcha. Now, Two elderly women from alkalou recalled that
Speaker 1: Burke Junior had a reputation as a womanizer as well,
Speaker 1: and was known for committing theft without facing consequences. Sonia
Speaker 1: Eddie Williamson, a white Alkali resident who became close with
Speaker 1: George's sister, conducted her own investigation and learned that Wayne
Speaker 1: Burke Burke Junior's son. So it would be the Burke
Speaker 1: senior's grandson that his grandmother had allegedly told his father, sorry,
Speaker 1: allegedly told that his father had picked up the girls
Speaker 1: in his lumber truck on the day they were murdered. So,
Speaker 1: I mean it is word through the grapevine, but allegedly
Speaker 1: Burke Junior picked up the girls in his lumber truck
Speaker 1: the day they were murdered.
Speaker 2: Meaning like that. He like, oh, man, okay, this is
Speaker 2: kind of confusing.
Speaker 1: It is it is because there's there's there's a lot
Speaker 1: of through the grapevine stuff. Yeah, we have seventy years
Speaker 1: of history, so it's like, well, I heard this, I.
Speaker 2: Was yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Okay. So Sonya was a Alkalou resident who he came
Speaker 1: friends with George's sister over the years. Okay, Okay, she
Speaker 1: conducted a little bit of her own quasi investigation. Now,
Speaker 1: she learned from Wayne Burke. Okay, who is Burke Junior's son. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: so grandson. She learned from grandson that his grandmother. So
Speaker 1: the guy who was the senior, you know, the grandfather.
Speaker 1: Whatever she learned, he learned from the grandmother that Burke Junior,
Speaker 1: which is his dad. Yeah, he learned that Burke Junior
Speaker 1: had allegedly picked the girls up the day they were
Speaker 1: murdered in his truck.
Speaker 2: But does that mean that he did did it?
Speaker 1: No, Okay, doesn't mean he did it, but it does
Speaker 1: mean that there was a witness saying he was with
Speaker 1: the girls the day they were murdered.
Speaker 2: Right, holy shit, holy shit? Oh man, Okay, Now.
Speaker 1: I do want to clarify this is through the grapefie.
Speaker 1: There's no again, there's no evidence to say.
Speaker 2: They didn't do their job at the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah so, but I mean at the time, if they
Speaker 1: questioned the right people, they might have had a fucking
Speaker 1: witness statement. Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So however, Wayne Burke later denied making this statement and
Speaker 1: maintained his belief that George was guilty. Oh of course, yeah,
Speaker 1: so he retracted that statement.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, duh, Yeah, holy frig I know it's a
Speaker 2: whole shit, So no shit now.
Speaker 1: Finally, lawyers for the Stinny family have mentioned rumors of
Speaker 1: a deathbed confession from a member of a prominent white family,
Speaker 1: though this has never been confirmed or said anything about
Speaker 1: who this individual was.
Speaker 2: Huh so it could have even been like those people potentially.
Speaker 1: Could have been, but it's been kept quiet because there's
Speaker 1: no evidence to support it. And that is the story
Speaker 1: of George Stinney.
Speaker 2: Well, you know what, if that is true and this
Speaker 2: was like a death but confession, I hope that it
Speaker 2: just like haunted them for like their whole life and
Speaker 2: they didn't even get to enjoy their their life to
Speaker 2: the fullest.
Speaker 1: If they're doing a deathbed confession, there's a good chance
Speaker 1: that they probably fucking haunted them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I hope it just like ate them alive, really,
Speaker 2: because that is just like I don't even know how
Speaker 2: you could live your life knowing that you just like
Speaker 2: killed an innocent fourteen year old.
Speaker 1: Really, I know. So this is a uh, colorized image
Speaker 1: of George Stinny being.
Speaker 2: Uh no, I don't know if I want to see that. No,
Speaker 2: you're doing.
Speaker 1: It a do you not want to see it?
Speaker 2: I don't know. My heart's already broken, I guess, So
Speaker 2: what else could it do?
Speaker 1: Fair enough? Well, I don't know if this is actually
Speaker 1: taken in color. It was colorized, but it is a
Speaker 1: real image of George Stinny. Oh, hold on, that's there,
Speaker 1: it is there. No, that's him being strapped into the chair.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh no, no, yeah, I really, oh my god,
Speaker 2: my heart. I did not need to see that. Holy shit,
Speaker 2: holy shit. That is so fucking sad, I know. Wow.
Speaker 1: And you can see he's keeping his composure, like look
Speaker 1: right here, he's keeping his composure, and the last moments
Speaker 1: of this final chin strap coming.
Speaker 2: On, that's oh well, like yeah, it's almost like you
Speaker 2: probably had like the tiniest bit of hope that maybe,
Speaker 2: like maybe something at the last minute would change, you know,
Speaker 2: and then oh my gosh, I can't, I can't. That
Speaker 2: is so fucked holy holy holy oh.
Speaker 1: So in this caption here, actually, I do know, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of references in movies and stuff to George
Speaker 1: Stinney and stuff and such. I didn't research just one,
Speaker 1: but on this this post a long togo with this
Speaker 1: this image that I just pulled up, it does say
Speaker 1: that Stephen King was inspired by this case to write
Speaker 1: his book The Green Mile, which was taken to theaters
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 2: So oh, and the image is from the movie.
Speaker 1: Oh, image is from movie.
Speaker 2: Okay, so maybe they don't actually have but still.
Speaker 1: Okay, maybe I was bamboozled with that image. But okay,
Speaker 1: really quick, I'm interjecting into our podcast here for something.
Speaker 1: I did look into this image. It's not from Green Mile.
Speaker 1: I didn't think so, because I don't ever remember there
Speaker 1: being a kid in an electric chair in Green Mile.
Speaker 1: But it is from some sort of movie. So the
Speaker 1: image is fake. It is from a movie. I can't
Speaker 1: identify which movie yet, I haven't been able to find it,
Speaker 1: but there are some movies out there regarding George and
Speaker 1: his story, so I think this one's a fairly older one,
Speaker 1: and it's definitely not the top of the list. But
Speaker 1: it is a false image. Okay, back to the podcast.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, it's like that little kid is acting like,
Speaker 2: very well, I'm sure that's exactly how it basically went down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that kid's that's some fucking phenomenal acting then
Speaker 1: because it fooled me. Okay, so that is a false
Speaker 1: fied image, I guess.
Speaker 2: But still, well yeah, I mean it's it's representing I'm
Speaker 2: sure exactly what happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that is the case of George Stinny, and
Speaker 1: it just goes to show the extent of I think
Speaker 1: people were capable of just because of skin color.
Speaker 2: Have you watched that movie The Green Mile.
Speaker 1: I have seen The Green Mile. It's been a long time.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't recognize this scene, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: Well it might not have, like you didn't probably know
Speaker 2: the whole maybe the whole story or whatever, right, I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe because I know I was a kid when I
Speaker 1: seen that movie. Yeah, I can picture like certain certain
Speaker 1: things off the top of my head and stuff, but
Speaker 1: like I don't even really remember the storyline or nothing.
Speaker 2: So well, we can maybe add that to the list.
Speaker 2: We have to watch that movie. We have another movie
Speaker 2: because I just realized the other day that Pirates still exists,
Speaker 2: and here's a movie that I want to watch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that, was it, Captain Phillip or whatever? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's the movie.
Speaker 2: I was just like shook. I don't know why, but
Speaker 2: my algorithm has like been showing me a bunch of
Speaker 2: pirate ship shit lately. Pirate ship shit, pirate shit, and yeah,
Speaker 2: I was like, I was just like, wow, Ben, like,
Speaker 2: pirates still exist. You were very aware, but I was not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, pirates are a real thing. Still.
Speaker 2: Oh this world is just scary. Hey.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So anyways, thank you guys for being here. Apparently
Speaker 1: we're gonna go watch The Green Mile and Captain Philip.
Speaker 1: We thank you guys being here. You guys are incredible.
Speaker 1: Because of your support, we actually get to keep this
Speaker 1: show going. We are just an indie podcast. No, no
Speaker 1: one owns us. It's us. That's it. So not just
Speaker 1: I hate that who else is it?
Speaker 2: Well? I mean like I hate when people are like,
Speaker 2: I'm just a mom or I'm just this, Like the
Speaker 2: word just out. We're an indie podcast. We rule you're
Speaker 2: you're a mom. I think you're awesome.
Speaker 1: I think just shows limitations. I don't think personally, I
Speaker 1: don't think.
Speaker 2: Just as No, I've always been that way, like because
Speaker 2: lots of times, I'll be like, oh, what do you
Speaker 2: do when they're like, oh, I'm just like a stay
Speaker 2: at home mom or something, and I'm like, know that
Speaker 2: you're not just you are like an awesome stay at
Speaker 2: home mom. I don't know. I've always been like that
Speaker 2: word triggers me for some reason.
Speaker 1: Okay, we're about to go in a five minute discussion
Speaker 1: with this. No, no, because I want to break this
Speaker 1: down because for me, if someone says it's like I'm
Speaker 1: just a mom, it's like there's two ways you can
Speaker 1: go about it. It's like, oh, I'm nothing special, I'm
Speaker 1: just a mom, which I see is what you're saying,
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's kind of negative or there's a connotation
Speaker 1: of I'm just a mom. It's like I have I
Speaker 1: am a mother and that's my focus and I want
Speaker 1: to do the best I can as a mother. I
Speaker 1: don't worry about anything else outside that.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I've always viewed it as it's sort
Speaker 2: of like I always usually correct people because I'm like,
Speaker 2: I feel like it just sounds like you're diminishing what
Speaker 2: you're doing.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, how's this. We are an indie podcast who
Speaker 1: does not rely on anyone else. It's just us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, better, I guess does that work? Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: a bit better.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well it is only us. Yeah, it's only us
Speaker 1: who produce research and everything to do with the show.
Speaker 1: So anything you can do to support us, it means
Speaker 1: the world. It helps our show grow. Whether it be
Speaker 1: listen to the end of us going off on tangents
Speaker 1: about the word just, whether it be giving us a review,
Speaker 1: whether it's you know, following or commenting or messaging us,
Speaker 1: it all helps. So thank you very much for being here.
Speaker 2: Well yeah and listening to this and given a big
Speaker 2: like I don't know, I don't know, how could you,
Speaker 2: like just a good vibes or like heartfelt send off
Speaker 2: to George. I guess, I don't know. Like I feel
Speaker 2: so bad. I wish I could do something.
Speaker 1: I don't think there's anything we can do, I know,
Speaker 1: other than just try not to fucking treat people because
Speaker 1: they're differently, because they're different, like it's a fucking human god.
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, different than you. Because they're not different, they're
Speaker 2: just different than you.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's right. Well, I mean everyone's different.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm fucking real different.
Speaker 1: You're different than me. I'm different than you. If you're listening.
Speaker 1: You're different than me and I'm different than you. That's
Speaker 1: not bad, it's just differences. Yeah, but we're all people,
Speaker 1: we're all humans, we're all just trying to fucking make
Speaker 1: it in this world. And yeah, so try not to
Speaker 1: be douchebags like those who were convicting and looking at
Speaker 1: George in the way he was, because that's just grotesque,
Speaker 1: that's wrong. It makes me sick. But yeah, thank you
Speaker 1: for being here, and until until
Speaker 2: Next time, Until next time, stay wicked.