1 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,759 Speaker 1: In a world where there is no new Twilight Zone 2 00:00:33,799 --> 00:00:38,880 on television, we look to other media to fill our 3 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,880 needs in the fifth dimension, and tonight we go back 4 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:47,600 to the printed page with the id W comic The 5 00:00:47,679 --> 00:00:52,079 Twilight Zone. And it's good to welcome back my old 6 00:00:52,119 --> 00:00:57,399 friend and podcaster, comic book reader, and all around great guy, 7 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,719 my friend Zach Moore. Zach, welcome back. 8 00:00:59,719 --> 00:01:02,399 Speaker 2: Thanks to that introduction. Tom. Happy to be back talking 9 00:01:02,439 --> 00:01:04,400 Twilight Zone comic books with. 10 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: You, Zach. It seems we might have bitten off a 11 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,400 little more than we can chew because I was under 12 00:01:10,439 --> 00:01:12,799 the impression that this was a five issue run. I 13 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,959 don't know whether I imagined that or I dreamt it. 14 00:01:16,359 --> 00:01:19,760 I had the number five in my head for some reason. 15 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,840 But actually I think this thing keeps running and running. 16 00:01:26,079 --> 00:01:29,680 I know there's like at least five issues out now 17 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:34,480 and a six issues advertised. I think there's adverts out there, 18 00:01:34,519 --> 00:01:37,719 maybe even up to number eight. So I think we 19 00:01:37,799 --> 00:01:39,560 might have a bit of a job on our hands. 20 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:41,799 Speaker 2: It's like when you start a podcast about a show 21 00:01:41,799 --> 00:01:44,920 that runs five years and you turn around and it's 22 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,239 fifteen years later and you're still doing this show now. 23 00:01:48,359 --> 00:01:51,280 To your point, I believe. The last page of the 24 00:01:51,319 --> 00:01:56,159 first issue listed off five issues to kind of, you know, 25 00:01:56,519 --> 00:01:59,560 advertise and get you hyped up for what to expect, 26 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,959 and we all interpreted that as, oh, these are the 27 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,480 five issues of the Twilights of comic book. Maybe that 28 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,479 was the intention. Maybe it's doing really well on sales. 29 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,240 I'm not sure, but it's going beyond five. And you're 30 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,000 the captain of the ship here, sir. So if you 31 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:17,479 give me a call and say we're going to keep 32 00:02:17,479 --> 00:02:20,919 doing these now and then I'll be here. If you 33 00:02:21,159 --> 00:02:24,840 said you know what I'm done, that's fine too. But yes, 34 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,759 it's going beyond the original five issue commitment we thought. 35 00:02:28,319 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I like the idea of a Twilight Zone 36 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,400 comic having some legs and running for a while. 37 00:02:33,719 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 2: That would be that would be a new thing, wouldn't it. 38 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, I think, as we spoke about in the 39 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,919 first episode, the way of things seems to be that 40 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,479 it comes out with a lot of bells and whistles 41 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,840 and then just sadly fizzles out after a while. So 42 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,039 I don't know whether this is doing well. I have 43 00:02:53,159 --> 00:02:56,120 no idea. I don't tend to live in that world. Boy, 44 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,919 I hope it is. You know, it'd be nice to 45 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,039 have a nice long run of Twilight's own comics, And 46 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:06,520 irrespective of what we think of stories or whatever else 47 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,039 within the issues, I just think they look really nice, 48 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:14,120 you know, these nice black and white comics, interesting covers. 49 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,719 And while I'm a bit more of a collected edition 50 00:03:17,879 --> 00:03:21,639 guy at the moment, I'm buying the single issues and 51 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,319 I kind of like having that collection there, you know. 52 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, I like the covers with the little spaceman on there. 53 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,479 He's like it's one of the alternate covers, but he's 54 00:03:32,159 --> 00:03:35,840 a consistent figure on the alternate cover. So that's the 55 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:41,479 one I'm collecting, and he's like a little invader looking spaceman, 56 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,840 a little taller, a little less chubby, but you know, 57 00:03:45,879 --> 00:03:49,080 he's always on these with with the iconography of the show, 58 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,919 of the eyeballs, the doorways, the spirals, and so those 59 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,240 are the ones I'm collecting. And it's fun that there 60 00:03:55,319 --> 00:03:58,240 is that, you know, through line throughout these alternate covers. 61 00:03:58,319 --> 00:04:00,479 You know now that there's more than five, we'll see 62 00:04:00,719 --> 00:04:04,120 if they keep that going. But yeah, I've been collecting 63 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:05,479 the individual issues as well. 64 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: Well. We both enjoy having that collection there, but I 65 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,599 guess it's what's inside the count. So should we get 66 00:04:11,599 --> 00:04:13,800 onto our issue for tonight. 67 00:04:13,719 --> 00:04:15,199 Speaker 2: Yes, let's get on the boat. 68 00:04:15,879 --> 00:04:19,519 Speaker 1: Okay, So this one is called False Bottom. The writer, 69 00:04:19,879 --> 00:04:24,959 artist and letterer is Nate Powell, And yeah, it's one 70 00:04:24,959 --> 00:04:27,040 of those things that we've said that we liked before 71 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,560 that these are given to a creator for the most part. 72 00:04:30,639 --> 00:04:33,759 Some of them, you know, have a writer and artist 73 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,319 on them, but a lot of them have like a 74 00:04:36,399 --> 00:04:40,480 single creator doing an issue, which we've both said that 75 00:04:40,519 --> 00:04:44,519 we enjoy, and this one is no exception. So we 76 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,720 spoke especially in issue one, about how they kind of 77 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,600 need to get to the point quite quickly. They have 78 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,879 a limited amount of pages they've got to tell this story. Now, 79 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,920 this story starts out on a boat. It's got three 80 00:04:58,959 --> 00:05:06,319 people on it and done wife, and the wife's kind of. 81 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 2: Neer do well brother twin brother. 82 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,879 Speaker 1: Twin brother. Yeah, yeah, you're right, maybe a bit of 83 00:05:11,879 --> 00:05:17,000 a loser in life. We'll get into that bit later on. On 84 00:05:16,439 --> 00:05:18,639 this first page, the three of them are kind of 85 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,040 looking at this hole in the bottom of the boat, 86 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:25,240 and we have these three characters. I'll focus on the 87 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,959 brother and sister. I should have got their names, I know, 88 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,680 the brother is called Chet. I think it's Laura is 89 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:31,560 the sister. 90 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 2: Yes, Chet, Laura and Laura's husband. Yeah. 91 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,879 Speaker 1: So Laura says, they're looking at this hole in the 92 00:05:41,879 --> 00:05:44,240 bottom of the boat. And she says in the listing online, 93 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,439 I thought they were just describing a glass spot and cutout, 94 00:05:47,639 --> 00:05:50,839 but no, And then her husband says, is it for 95 00:05:50,879 --> 00:05:55,000 fishing maybe? Or for diving? And then Chet then they 96 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,879 do well, brother says why bother? We can just do 97 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,399 those out on the deck, or it says, I think 98 00:06:01,439 --> 00:06:05,639 it's cool, and chats. You're constantly making questionable decisions because 99 00:06:05,639 --> 00:06:12,519 of some death bag podcast. Okay, here we are, this 100 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,000 is what we're doing. I think maybe a page or 101 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,120 two too kinds of ease into what this was about 102 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,160 might have been the way to go personally. What about you? 103 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, because we have this whole interaction with the or 104 00:06:26,959 --> 00:06:31,000 just reveal. It's a reveal of what the mystical object is. 105 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:32,600 We don't know it that, we don't know that it 106 00:06:32,639 --> 00:06:34,839 does mystical things yet, but it's like there it is. 107 00:06:34,959 --> 00:06:37,399 There's the whole the first page, hole in the boat. Uh. 108 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,519 The character motivations are being thrown back and forth through 109 00:06:40,519 --> 00:06:44,519 dialogue immediately before we given into the introduction, the very 110 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:49,680 short Surling esque introduction. It's literally like a paragraph and 111 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,480 a half and there's not even a hint of the 112 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:54,839 ian I didn't unless I miss something here, I don't 113 00:06:54,879 --> 00:06:57,600 see like a cigarette or a suit or any any 114 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,240 Rod Serling esque iconography around in which I enjoyed. In 115 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,199 two of the last three issues, they wove that in there. 116 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:07,839 So it just kind of throws you off, like like 117 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,839 you like like this is I'm gonna keep saying this right. 118 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,519 You look at these comic book continuations of TV shows, 119 00:07:14,519 --> 00:07:16,360 you want them to feel like the TV show. It's 120 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,120 a continuation of so the format should be, you know, 121 00:07:20,399 --> 00:07:23,199 a narration setting the scene, a little bit of just 122 00:07:23,319 --> 00:07:27,600 day in the life slice, and then something what would 123 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,560 lead into the opening credits of the show. Then we 124 00:07:29,639 --> 00:07:32,879 come back into the proper story. Yeah, it feels like 125 00:07:32,879 --> 00:07:34,120 we're just kind of thrown into the story in the 126 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,879 middle of a conversation. Oh oh, by the way, we 127 00:07:36,879 --> 00:07:38,920 should have put some narration in there. They put that 128 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:40,920 in there there, and then we're off to go. So 129 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,759 you feel just kind of off a little off balance 130 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:46,560 of what you expect from Twileta's one the story off 131 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:47,079 the top here. 132 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: Like I said, you know, they got limits of time 133 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:51,519 and stuff like that, but it would have been kind 134 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,199 of like you and I getting on this call tonight 135 00:07:54,319 --> 00:07:57,480 and me saying, hey, Zac, how's it going, and you've 136 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,439 been like, you know, it would be fine Tom if 137 00:07:59,439 --> 00:08:04,040 you went drink and so much all the time. You know, Oh, 138 00:08:04,199 --> 00:08:06,040 hold on, where did that come from? You? 139 00:08:06,639 --> 00:08:10,079 Speaker 2: Yeah? He's into that. Yeah, well, we have no we 140 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,000 have no baseline. What we're getting at is we have 141 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:16,199 no baseline for these characters relationships. So when you automatically 142 00:08:16,199 --> 00:08:19,079 throw them into chaos, you don't like, is this normal? 143 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,839 Is it not? I mean they're they're brother and sisters, 144 00:08:21,879 --> 00:08:24,959 so they're they're bickering. So that's the common trope, you know, 145 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,519 and then we you know, I do like that there's 146 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:28,920 only three characters. 147 00:08:29,439 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: Sure. 148 00:08:29,839 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 2: Something we've mentioned before, especially in the second issue, is 149 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,440 like there's way too many astronauts. I don't know who's Like, 150 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,080 we have three characters here. We know exactly who they are, 151 00:08:39,759 --> 00:08:42,559 what they look like, what there and through the dialogue 152 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,559 we know exactly what their motivations are and where they're 153 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,799 coming from with their personality traits are. So there is that, 154 00:08:46,879 --> 00:08:49,679 but you know, just stretched out a little bit, stretched 155 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:50,399 out a little. 156 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: Bit, Yeah, because I think the interactions on page two 157 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,600 and three, where the brother and sister are kind of 158 00:08:57,639 --> 00:09:01,679 bickering back and forth, probably enough. You know, you didn't 159 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:05,159 need to, like, you shouldn't be listening to that bag podcaster. 160 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,120 You know, people say that to my listeners all the time. 161 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:12,360 You shouldn't be listening to that podcaster. But yeah, let's 162 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,480 let's get to the narration. It's a really short one, 163 00:09:15,919 --> 00:09:18,720 and you know that's fine. Sometimes Rod didn't stick around 164 00:09:18,879 --> 00:09:20,960 and and it's always a balance and act with this, 165 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,200 isn't it? How how rad are you going to go 166 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,559 on it? But this one really short? An awkward family 167 00:09:26,639 --> 00:09:31,080 get together with an insufferable curmudgeon and the only two 168 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,279 friends he has left in his world. A trip to 169 00:09:34,399 --> 00:09:39,720 celebrate second chances, complete with a detour into the twilight Zone. 170 00:09:40,039 --> 00:09:44,320 Short and sweet, not much to it, but that's fine. 171 00:09:44,399 --> 00:09:46,840 I can kind of forgive that, Like you say, no, 172 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,279 no iconography, they're going season one with this thing, but 173 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:55,960 they're going season five with the length. You know. Then 174 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,240 we get a few pages of these guys just just 175 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:03,039 basically hanging out, and you know this is why I don't. 176 00:10:03,159 --> 00:10:06,279 I don't feel we needed to get to like Cheat's 177 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,960 problem on page one, because we really see it over 178 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,720 the next few pages where they're hanging out, they're drinking. 179 00:10:13,399 --> 00:10:16,399 You see, the chat is really just I think what 180 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,960 they're getting to is he's tapped into this kind of 181 00:10:21,879 --> 00:10:26,799 I suppose to where there's manosphere type of thing. I 182 00:10:26,799 --> 00:10:29,360 don't know whether you saw that documentary with Louis Theroux 183 00:10:29,399 --> 00:10:30,080 on Netflix. 184 00:10:30,399 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 2: I have learned the term menisphere in recent days time, 185 00:10:33,279 --> 00:10:35,000 so I know exactly what you're talking about. So we've 186 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,279 coined that phrase now, so now we know what to 187 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:41,799 assign the dude. Bro philosophy is the manisphere and that's 188 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:43,879 what I mean. Chad here is like I found my 189 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,879 people online, real guys alphas. I'm like, okay, all right, 190 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,240 we know we know what you're all about. 191 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: Chet, here's the thing. And maybe it's a conversation to 192 00:10:52,519 --> 00:10:59,279 be hard early, because I think the struggle the modern 193 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,720 Twilight own has, whether it's on television or whether it's 194 00:11:03,399 --> 00:11:10,440 on the printed page, is saying something about something, and 195 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,240 a lot of the people consuming it find it to 196 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:17,639 be too explicit in what it's talking about. Now, I 197 00:11:17,639 --> 00:11:20,519 don't necessarily always subscribe to that. To be honest, I 198 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:26,600 feel like it's the modern world. We have different things 199 00:11:26,639 --> 00:11:29,039 that we want to talk about and comment on, and 200 00:11:29,399 --> 00:11:32,639 I think it's okay to do that in a Twilight 201 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:37,200 Zone context, you know. But at the same time, I 202 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,320 think if people are going to be turned off by 203 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,039 this issue. I hate to bring this back up from 204 00:11:45,399 --> 00:11:49,320 you know, the Jordan Peel Twilight Zone days, but the 205 00:11:49,399 --> 00:11:52,480 words on the nose were spoken very often. 206 00:11:52,799 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 2: Ye, you should smile more. 207 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,919 Speaker 1: And it's whether the messages are too on the nose 208 00:12:01,159 --> 00:12:04,440 or explicit, it tends to turn a lot of people off. 209 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,200 So what do you think of this one, Zach? Is it? 210 00:12:08,799 --> 00:12:11,039 You know, should they have been a bit more, be 211 00:12:11,159 --> 00:12:13,279 a bit more vague about this or. 212 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 2: Well I think they're using shorthand to kind of try 213 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,000 and tell you what this guy is. And it's like, okay, 214 00:12:19,039 --> 00:12:20,519 like we could have we could have spent a little 215 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,000 more time, like like seeing how you react to the thing. 216 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,120 Just his his behavior speaks for itself. I don't think 217 00:12:26,159 --> 00:12:28,279 we necessarily needed it. And by the way, he listens 218 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,919 to these good podcasts, you guys know what I'm talking about. 219 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,360 I'm like, yeah, okay, yeah, I know what you're talking about, 220 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,799 but also his behavior. He's entitled, he's kind of a 221 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,240 failure to launch out, he's living in his parents' basement. 222 00:12:39,279 --> 00:12:42,519 His sister's dragging him along. Like all those character traits work, 223 00:12:42,519 --> 00:12:45,600 we don't need just immediately assign you know what his 224 00:12:45,759 --> 00:12:48,360 interests are and so you can infer any other things 225 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,720 about him. And that's the thing, right, I mean, the 226 00:12:51,799 --> 00:12:55,120 Jordan Peel twilight Zone is our most current on screen 227 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,480 twilight Zone. And i'd say, you know, from my perspective, 228 00:12:58,519 --> 00:13:01,960 an episode like not All Men has the same message 229 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,120 as an episode like Try Try, right, I think those 230 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,039 are the very go look it up, guys, if you're like, 231 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,679 what episodes are those? I think they actually are saying 232 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,360 the same thing. But the execution and in the way 233 00:13:13,399 --> 00:13:16,279 it's articulated could not be further apart, and not like 234 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:17,840 one of those a lot more than the other. And 235 00:13:17,879 --> 00:13:19,240 I'll leave it there because we don't need to re 236 00:13:19,279 --> 00:13:22,360 engage in those debates now, Tom, But uh no, but 237 00:13:22,919 --> 00:13:25,080 that's what there's There are ways to get these same 238 00:13:25,159 --> 00:13:28,840 messages across, and I prefer one than the other. The 239 00:13:28,919 --> 00:13:31,200 less on the nose approaches, the one I prefer because 240 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:37,200 these are these are parables. These are you know, modern fables, right, 241 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,600 examinations of the human condition all that I dialogue you 242 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:43,120 can say, but really this is what they are. They're 243 00:13:43,159 --> 00:13:46,480 just morality plays, right, and that's that's what I get 244 00:13:46,519 --> 00:13:48,000 from from these stories. 245 00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: We get to a point where they all gather around 246 00:13:52,879 --> 00:13:53,919 this hole in the boat. 247 00:13:54,159 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 2: You know, I did like by the way, when chetl 248 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:58,080 like puts his arm in there and he acts like 249 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,240 it's like eating them and stop stuff, right, and the 250 00:14:01,279 --> 00:14:03,759 sister's like, what are you doing? Like we would all 251 00:14:03,799 --> 00:14:07,440 play the either ourselves or friend we know would absolutely 252 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,879 do that in that situation. So I enjoy that a 253 00:14:09,879 --> 00:14:10,279 little bit. 254 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: So they all gather around this hold it's in the boat, 255 00:14:13,519 --> 00:14:16,159 and things are reaching fever pitch. At this point, the 256 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,799 relationship between Laura and chet is really bad. Laura's like, okay, 257 00:14:20,879 --> 00:14:25,559 forget this. She jumps into the hole, thinking that it's 258 00:14:25,639 --> 00:14:28,639 it's simply just a hole that goes underneath the boat, 259 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,399 you know, like a glass bottomed boat without the glass in, 260 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,399 you know, or something like that. I don't know, and 261 00:14:34,559 --> 00:14:38,679 heir and her husband go in and then Laura's husband 262 00:14:38,759 --> 00:14:41,159 kind of pops his head up again. And says, Chet, 263 00:14:41,399 --> 00:14:42,919 come on, you got to come in. You got to 264 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:49,240 see this. So Chet jumps in as well. However, what 265 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,720 Chet then experiences is different to what Laura and her 266 00:14:53,799 --> 00:14:58,639 husband then experience. Now it's here where I'm not entirely 267 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,240 sure what this is supposed to be. 268 00:15:03,159 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna ask you, Tom, so I okay, 269 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:12,240 we're in the same boat, no fun intended? Uh yeah, yeah, 270 00:15:12,519 --> 00:15:16,679 because he goes down there and he looks around and 271 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,240 he sees his ladder and he crawls up his ladder. 272 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:24,879 But then he's in like nightmare shadow realm, while Laura 273 00:15:24,919 --> 00:15:28,279 and her husband are in you know, this odd, idyllic, 274 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,600 even better version of where they were. It's like the 275 00:15:32,679 --> 00:15:36,879 same boat, but it's nicer and there's no bugs, and 276 00:15:36,919 --> 00:15:40,039 the weather's perfect, and it's like this ideal version where 277 00:15:40,039 --> 00:15:44,320 they were. Well, Chet's in this like he's on a 278 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,279 boat too. It's the same. It's like this dark mirror reflection, 279 00:15:47,399 --> 00:15:51,519 but with all these like shadow dude bros. Tom. 280 00:15:51,679 --> 00:15:55,919 Speaker 1: Yeah. Earlier on, somewhere in the dialogue, Chests and Laura 281 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,480 talk about being mirror images of each other. You know, 282 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:04,799 she's even even faced with Chet's despicable behavior, she wants 283 00:16:04,799 --> 00:16:07,320 the best forum. She wants to help him out. She's actually, 284 00:16:07,879 --> 00:16:10,639 you know, a good person where there, Chet just seems 285 00:16:10,679 --> 00:16:14,360 to be pretty despicable. So, like you say, when Check 286 00:16:14,399 --> 00:16:17,919 gets back on the boat, there's all these shadowy do bros. 287 00:16:18,039 --> 00:16:21,080 And you know, they're cooking steak and they're coming out 288 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,679 with some of these you know phrases alphas. 289 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 2: And mid the mid yeah, tick me. 290 00:16:32,039 --> 00:16:36,159 Speaker 1: Laura and her husband are out on their deck having 291 00:16:36,159 --> 00:16:40,200 a cocktail and there's a point in it where Laura's 292 00:16:40,279 --> 00:16:45,519 husband starts to talk about how he dislikes Chet, you 293 00:16:45,519 --> 00:16:49,559 know what a loser Chet is, and his dialogue bubbles 294 00:16:49,559 --> 00:16:54,120 start to go dark. Yeah, and I'm not one hundred 295 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,879 percent short of the significance of that. I was wondering 296 00:16:56,879 --> 00:16:58,519 whether you had any ideas on it. 297 00:16:59,039 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 2: No, I'm just curious what it was trying to say, 298 00:17:03,279 --> 00:17:07,480 because it's like, is he becoming one of those shadow people? Know, 299 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:12,119 because he's in this other reality, like the the two 300 00:17:12,559 --> 00:17:15,359 sides of it are Laura and Chet, and he's this 301 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,759 extra guy. I mean, I think he's really there. I 302 00:17:18,759 --> 00:17:21,440 don't know why he's starting to sound like the other 303 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,599 guy is like I like he like she eventually's like, 304 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,000 oh my god, we can't leave chet, I gotta go 305 00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:29,240 find him. He's like, wait, we're in heaven here. She's like, 306 00:17:29,279 --> 00:17:31,680 Heaven's overrated if he's not here, and she leaves, and 307 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,279 she leaves him there in this idyllic place. But the 308 00:17:35,319 --> 00:17:38,000 place itself, it doesn't start disintegrating or anything, is just 309 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:42,559 his speech bubbles have the black bubble white text, which 310 00:17:42,599 --> 00:17:45,160 is what all the shadow dubros have, And I too 311 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,079 could not really figure out what they were trying to 312 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:47,640 say with that. 313 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,839 Speaker 1: Tom Okay, So this is my best guess. I think 314 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,880 when Chess is in the dude bro world, yes we 315 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:58,759 have now coined it, he says a couple of things 316 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,319 where actually he he starts to talk about Laura and 317 00:18:03,079 --> 00:18:05,079 you know, he wants to get back to them, and 318 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,200 they're like, why, you know, what do you want to 319 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,279 go and see them for? And they start to see 320 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,720 him as weak and they call him a beta meat 321 00:18:16,759 --> 00:18:18,759 for the strong term. They start to call him a 322 00:18:18,799 --> 00:18:25,839 beta and soft and so on. Now, I think, if 323 00:18:25,839 --> 00:18:29,440 you want to comment on that world, I'm starting to 324 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:34,960 think of things like Rod Sailing talking about racism. He 325 00:18:35,039 --> 00:18:40,359 had that character of imperial me in Carol. For another Christmas, 326 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,160 where his point of view is that right now, you're 327 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,559 in this group and you don't like that group, But 328 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,160 if you get rid of that group, then people within 329 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,440 your group are going to find someone else to pick on. 330 00:18:55,519 --> 00:18:58,400 That's just the way this works. And at some point 331 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,200 it may be you, because the circle will just get 332 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,920 smaller and smaller, and when it's not color anymore, it's 333 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:07,880 going to be hair color, or it's going to be 334 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,240 because you were born, you know, at the other side 335 00:19:10,279 --> 00:19:14,480 of town, or whatever it might be. That was a 336 00:19:14,559 --> 00:19:18,480 recarring thing in Rod Sailing's work. So I think if 337 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,319 that's what it's saying about this dude bro world where 338 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,759 it's like, you know what, you only exist in this place, 339 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,960 you only have status in this place if you toe 340 00:19:29,039 --> 00:19:32,519 the line. You know, the minute you say anything different 341 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,480 than you're the one that they will turn on. So 342 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,559 you know, you think this is freedom, but it's not 343 00:19:39,079 --> 00:19:42,720 because basically you can't be free to have your own 344 00:19:42,839 --> 00:19:46,039 thoughts and feelings. You've just got to go with this 345 00:19:46,039 --> 00:19:49,720 this messed up tribe. So I think there's something to 346 00:19:49,759 --> 00:19:52,400 be said there. You know, there's a discussion to be had. 347 00:19:52,759 --> 00:19:54,920 If that's what it's saying, I mean, I don't know. 348 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,920 Do you think I might be onto something there or. 349 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,519 Speaker 2: I think you're on something. I don't know if it's 350 00:20:00,559 --> 00:20:03,559 what this was on too. I agree you're saying I 351 00:20:03,599 --> 00:20:07,759 think that him him showing up in this shadow dimension. Uh, 352 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,519 and then it being all dark and like obviously ominous 353 00:20:10,519 --> 00:20:15,519 and vad is is not really the way you would 354 00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:17,319 think a story like this would unfold. You think he'd 355 00:20:17,319 --> 00:20:19,640 poply like, oh this is great, these are my people. 356 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,720 Oh I love it here, and then it's slowly kind 357 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,720 of then he realizes how like the dark underbelly of 358 00:20:24,759 --> 00:20:27,440 what it really is, and and oh, we're gonna do 359 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,039 that now. Oh we're gonna do that now, like a 360 00:20:29,039 --> 00:20:30,559 guy who's like on the edge of like, yeah he 361 00:20:30,599 --> 00:20:33,000 has some radical ideas maybe, but he's like, oh, not 362 00:20:33,079 --> 00:20:36,160 that extreme. But then he sees it like everybody's extreme here, 363 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,920 like oh my god, this is I'm trying to get 364 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,640 out of here. This isn't my place. But they don't 365 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,880 even there's no character journey, I guess is what we're 366 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,359 getting at. That's why we're confused. 367 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: I think tom So in Laura as well, do you 368 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,079 know her husband with his dark speech bubbles is saying, 369 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,880 you know, forget about chat, stay here, enjoy this, and 370 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,079 she is like, no, you know what, that's not the 371 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,880 real world, that's not the way these things work. Yes, 372 00:21:00,079 --> 00:21:02,240 he's difficult, but we just need to work at that. 373 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:09,200 Whereas I suppose her husband, like the Dude Bros, Is 374 00:21:09,319 --> 00:21:14,079 just very binary. It's one thing or another. And maybe 375 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,200 that's maybe that's part of this conversation as well, because 376 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,799 she goes back to the hot well, actually she jumps 377 00:21:20,839 --> 00:21:23,400 back into the water and swims up to the hole 378 00:21:23,519 --> 00:21:28,799 at the center of the boat. I think maybe Chet 379 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,599 runs down to the center of the boat from the 380 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:36,119 dudebro boat. And then by the end of the issue, 381 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,799 they're kind of just looking at each other through what 382 00:21:41,079 --> 00:21:45,519 is now a kind of almost a mirror between them. 383 00:21:45,559 --> 00:21:48,000 They can see each other, they're both banging on the 384 00:21:48,039 --> 00:21:51,920 other side of it, and you know, they can't get 385 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,960 to each other. And this is where the issue ends, 386 00:21:55,319 --> 00:22:00,279 and comic book Rod says, pieces of a pair stuck 387 00:22:00,319 --> 00:22:03,599 with each other from bath even as they're pulled in 388 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:10,839 different directions, both mirror and shadow imperfect compliments, holding each 389 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:15,880 other up, dragging themselves a bit further down into the 390 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,880 twilight zone. So what I'm thinking it tends to be 391 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:25,279 getting here is that we are dealing to a degree 392 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,319 with extremes. You know, Laura is very good. 393 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 2: She's a social worker. They established that earlier, so she 394 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,799 has a heart for people who need help. 395 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,759 Speaker 1: She's always trying to see the goods in Chet, whereas 396 00:22:37,839 --> 00:22:41,480 Chet is you know, not particularly good, a bit of 397 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:45,640 a waste of space, bit of a loser. He's latching 398 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:50,160 onto all these you know, messed up ideologies. Maybe what 399 00:22:50,279 --> 00:22:54,240 it's saying to us is that it says imperfect compliments 400 00:22:54,279 --> 00:22:57,799 holding each other up, the that actually, you know, there 401 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,559 needs to be some they need to meet in the middle, 402 00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:04,279 Like the name of that Twilight So exisode. 403 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 2: You like, yeah, yeah, that's a good one. 404 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,599 Speaker 1: So I don't know that that's all I can get 405 00:23:08,599 --> 00:23:12,680 from this. That maybe it's it's really about they both 406 00:23:12,799 --> 00:23:16,000 realize that they shouldn't be at the extreme end of 407 00:23:16,079 --> 00:23:18,960 this thing, and they actually do both need each other 408 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,839 and they need to find compromise. And that's probably the 409 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:23,559 best I've got. 410 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 2: Well, Laura says that earlier, she says, and every day 411 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,079 we try again to help you out, but that means 412 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,960 you've got to meet us halfway, right, So that's what 413 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,359 we're talking about a little bit also though, like the 414 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,119 when the shadow dude ros start turning on him, this 415 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,880 is what they tell you, But it's like this shadow 416 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,160 version of his sister that tells him this, which is weird. 417 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:49,559 It's like someone who failed your own tests, the easiest prey, 418 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,000 consider themselves the predator. You accepted help up the ladder, 419 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,240 after all, why didn't you simply pull yourself up right 420 00:23:55,279 --> 00:23:57,079 when he's coming out of the boat, Because he's made 421 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:58,720 such a big deal about all he doesn't need help, 422 00:23:58,759 --> 00:24:00,079 like a sisters trying to get him a job, but 423 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,160 he got his own job. But of course someone offered 424 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,240 him help and he took it, so I don't. I 425 00:24:05,279 --> 00:24:07,839 just feel like there's a lot of conflicting, vague ideas here. 426 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,079 I'm not sure what it's trying to say, and you know, 427 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:12,799 it did. I thought we were gonna like kind of 428 00:24:12,799 --> 00:24:16,160 lock in and kick it into the last climax, and 429 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,279 then it just ended. It felt similar to the first 430 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,599 issue Tom I'm like, oh, okay, the guy's on the helicopter. 431 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,359 Now he's got the disease, and oh it's over. And 432 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,160 this was even more abruper, like the two characters, the 433 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,640 brother sister meet again on the hole in the boat, 434 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,240 but they can't get through the glass now or whatever 435 00:24:33,319 --> 00:24:35,920 barry that is. And then it just ends. I'm like, oh, 436 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,799 did they die? Like I don't. It's this reality what 437 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,880 happens to the husband? Like I just it feels very unresolved? Yeah, 438 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,240 and like there wasn't. It's not like she realized that 439 00:24:46,319 --> 00:24:48,519 the fantasy that her and her husband was like terrible. 440 00:24:48,519 --> 00:24:50,559 It was more like, I can't leave my brother behind. 441 00:24:50,799 --> 00:24:52,960 So I don't. Does a husband just stay in that 442 00:24:53,279 --> 00:24:56,920 Willoughby world that he's in on the boat by himself forever? Now? 443 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,279 I don't. I don't understand. I read this twice, Tom, 444 00:25:00,599 --> 00:25:02,759 I really did try to understand what it was trying 445 00:25:02,759 --> 00:25:06,519 to tell us. There's some good ideas, here's some interesting imagery, 446 00:25:06,599 --> 00:25:08,960 for sure, But I don't. I just couldn't connect the 447 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,480 dots of what it was trying to ultimately say. 448 00:25:11,599 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: You know, you just mentioned that it's a shadow version 449 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,160 of his own sister who says these things to him 450 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,759 that make him run back to the hole in the 451 00:25:19,759 --> 00:25:22,240 boat to try and get back. Yeah, so that was 452 00:25:22,519 --> 00:25:23,920 that was what that was, right? 453 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 2: I believe so because he's like Laura, like even in 454 00:25:27,279 --> 00:25:31,000 questions it because it is the shadow looking person who 455 00:25:31,079 --> 00:25:36,160 says that is the outline of his sister, or at 456 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,319 least looks kind of like that, But maybe it's not. 457 00:25:39,319 --> 00:25:41,240 I don't know, because after that he's like Laura like 458 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,480 he says that, After that shadow person says that, so 459 00:25:46,799 --> 00:25:48,359 that's what I took from him. 460 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,839 Speaker 1: Well, to be honest, though, that makes sense because if 461 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,240 that is indeed the case, it's almost like he has 462 00:25:58,279 --> 00:26:02,119 been railing against what Laura is all about all the 463 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,400 way through this thing and saying, no, you know, my 464 00:26:05,559 --> 00:26:07,960 way is the best I've found my alphas, et cetera, 465 00:26:08,039 --> 00:26:12,079 et cetera. But then when he's confronted with a vasion 466 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,920 of Laura, who is even more alpha than he thinks 467 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:20,480 he is, who subscribed wholesale to this whole thing, it's 468 00:26:20,519 --> 00:26:24,759 at that point that he goes, WHOA hold on, Actually, no, 469 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,400 I don't like that, and actually I do need my 470 00:26:28,559 --> 00:26:33,039 sister as she is, And a world where we're all 471 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,559 this way probably isn't a very good world after all, 472 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,079 So it would probably make sense if that's the case. 473 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 2: Well, there's on the opposite page of that, there is 474 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,480 a panel of Laura and the Heaven Willoughby World, So 475 00:26:47,519 --> 00:26:50,480 I'm gonna start calling it and it's opposite of that 476 00:26:50,599 --> 00:26:53,680 shadow version of her, like the framing and her face 477 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,079 and everything with her hair. So I really do think 478 00:26:56,079 --> 00:26:58,359 that is what it's supposed to be. But against kind 479 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,400 of it's a little too vague, Like I don't, I 480 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,279 don't know, Like I just think it's a little too vague. 481 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,319 I feel like I'm I don't know, I'm a I'm 482 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,519 media literates. I feel like I can pick up on things, 483 00:27:07,559 --> 00:27:09,839 but I feel like this is just a little too vague. 484 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,039 But yeah, something triggers them, like both to go seek 485 00:27:13,079 --> 00:27:14,799 each other at the doorway again. But I don't know, 486 00:27:14,799 --> 00:27:18,559 Like I like the concept of you you rent a 487 00:27:18,559 --> 00:27:20,599 boat I mean it's it's a classic horror sci fi 488 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,319 short story concept. You rent a boat house. There's a 489 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,079 poor at the bottom of the boat house. It takes 490 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,599 it to different places based off who you are. Like 491 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,000 that's interesting, but there's no like back and forth. They 492 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,119 don't like go and come back or anything like they go, 493 00:27:34,599 --> 00:27:36,400 they're in their spot. Then they try to meet in 494 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,960 the middle and they can't and that's the end. I 495 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,160 don't know, Like you know when we talk about these, 496 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:42,640 it's not like, well, here's what I would have done, 497 00:27:42,759 --> 00:27:44,839 Here's what I would have thought. It shut a man like, 498 00:27:44,839 --> 00:27:48,240 I don't want to do that whole game, but I just. 499 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:48,839 Speaker 1: I just want to understand what's happening. 500 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it's vague, it's incomplete, and you know, 501 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,960 as we as we wind down here, I gotta say, 502 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,039 I think this is my least favorite so far tom 503 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:57,799 of the of the stories. 504 00:27:57,799 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: Even less than the one with the Broccoli Monster. 505 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 2: Well, Rockney Monster. That one I think had such a 506 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,359 great Twilight Zone set up and ending. It was all 507 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,880 that when they got to the weird you know, well 508 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,400 to the rabbit monsters and all that stuff, I was like, 509 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,920 that's a little strange, and not that this is a 510 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,960 again like do these all have to be? Could this 511 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,559 have been an episode in nineteen fifty nine? No, probably not, 512 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,680 And that's not a prerequessit or anything. But I don't know. 513 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,480 I guess there's a certain sense of casualness in this. 514 00:28:29,599 --> 00:28:31,319 There's not a lot of twilet zones, even in the 515 00:28:31,319 --> 00:28:33,799 modern Twilight zones we talk about Jordan Peel again, the 516 00:28:33,839 --> 00:28:36,039 most modern one. There was a sense of I don't 517 00:28:36,079 --> 00:28:39,960 know of class and maturity to most of them. You 518 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,400 know veneer to it all. I you know that, but 519 00:28:44,519 --> 00:28:48,799 this is like three young people on a boat like 520 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,440 I don't know, like on a summer voat like that 521 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,119 doesn't feel twilight Zone to me. Then you get into 522 00:28:54,119 --> 00:28:56,000 your whole like what is twilight Zone and you go 523 00:28:56,039 --> 00:28:58,240 down that rabbit hole. But I don't know, like across 524 00:28:58,279 --> 00:29:02,720 the board, this just didn't really care neck like, visually, aesthetically, 525 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,160 thematically to anything the Twilight Zone usually does. Like I 526 00:29:07,559 --> 00:29:10,200 don't know, So I felt myself just kind of lost 527 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:11,720 and like I wasn't like mad at it. I was 528 00:29:11,759 --> 00:29:15,079 just kind of confused, so the least enjoyable because I 529 00:29:15,079 --> 00:29:17,400 would just spend most of the time trying to figure 530 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,400 out what is? What was it even trying to tell me? 531 00:29:19,599 --> 00:29:22,559 So that's ultimately where I land on it. Tom. 532 00:29:23,359 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: Well, before we sum up, I'm going to read a 533 00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:30,960 quick email from a gentleman named Dan from Australia listeners. 534 00:29:31,039 --> 00:29:32,599 If you want to chime in on any of these, 535 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,880 please do send me an email Tom at the twilight 536 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,079 Zone podcast dot com and Dan says good day, Tom 537 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:43,079 idw does some terrific comics based on existing ips. For me, however, 538 00:29:43,599 --> 00:29:47,279 this Twilight Zone series has been an unfortunate exception. The 539 00:29:47,359 --> 00:29:50,759 first issue is great, but I've seen diminishing returns ever since. 540 00:29:51,359 --> 00:29:54,799 Issue four continued that trend and was the least effective 541 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,400 and enjoyable so far. I think my concerns with issues 542 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,880 two and four can be up with two words, subtlety 543 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,480 and storytelling. Whether due to the technological limitations of the past, 544 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,359 the difference in cultural context between then and now, or 545 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,400 conscious decisions by the respective writers, it seems overall and 546 00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:17,680 entertainment is far less subtle than it used to be. 547 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,319 That speaking as a generalization, with all the problems and 548 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,839 exceptions that come with a generalization. Of course, for me, 549 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,599 issues two to four come in far too heavy handed, 550 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,680 both with their concept and their storytelling. As you noted 551 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,759 in your review of Issue too Once, the spaceship lands 552 00:30:34,759 --> 00:30:38,680 on the alien planet were quickly bombarded by one goofy 553 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,759 creature or situation after another. For me, the Relic in 554 00:30:42,839 --> 00:30:46,240 issue three didn't feel very much like the Twilight Zone. 555 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,839 A big part of that was that the issue had 556 00:30:48,839 --> 00:30:51,839 an epic scope with the war and the spectacle of 557 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,759 the battle and so forth, but it didn't give us 558 00:30:54,759 --> 00:30:58,799 a more personalized look at a character we could identify with. 559 00:30:59,599 --> 00:31:03,079 When the original Twilight Zone dealt with epic events like Wars, 560 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,519 it kept it intimate two by giving us compelling characters 561 00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:10,599 and situations as the focus, such as in the Papal Testament. 562 00:31:11,279 --> 00:31:14,680 This lack of subtlety continues its downward trend with issue four. 563 00:31:15,279 --> 00:31:18,400 In their political discussion, the two main characters came across 564 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,000 as archetypes rather than people of substance we could really 565 00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:26,039 identify with or find compelling. The shadow beings from the 566 00:31:26,119 --> 00:31:28,680 other dimension were far too over played. They came across 567 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,720 as something not from the Twilight Zone, but rather some 568 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,960 middling monster of the weak fair. The situation faced by 569 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,200 the characters at the end of the story was similarly unsubtle. 570 00:31:39,559 --> 00:31:43,599 The original Twilight Zone didn't use a metaphysical mechanism like that, 571 00:31:44,039 --> 00:31:48,160 especially in such an overt fashion. Finally, there wasn't really 572 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,400 a twist at the end, just an odd circumstance, as 573 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,920 has been discussed on your podcast before, Tom, there doesn't 574 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,200 need to be a twist to make a Twilight Zone, 575 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,079 but it helps. Thank you for your podcast, Tom, I 576 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:01,839 enjoy it so much that have been listening to it 577 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,880 more or less constantly and have finally gotten up to 578 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,599 date with the most recent episode. Regards Dan from Australia, Well, 579 00:32:09,599 --> 00:32:12,079 thank you, Dan, I appreciate that, and thank you for 580 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,119 being the first one to chime in on these. You know, 581 00:32:16,279 --> 00:32:19,359 I think I probably like the series a little bit 582 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,000 more than Dan, but I think he makes some good points, right. 583 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree. It sounds like the first one 584 00:32:26,559 --> 00:32:29,599 was his favorite. We definitely like the third and more 585 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,240 than he did. I do see his point though as 586 00:32:32,319 --> 00:32:35,359 far as like it is a different flavor than what 587 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,000 we see on the original show, is like epic battles 588 00:32:38,039 --> 00:32:40,440 and that sort of thing. But the fact that it 589 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,359 did become kind of a two hander than that whole 590 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,319 you know, maybe it's the plan of the apes of 591 00:32:44,319 --> 00:32:47,599 it all Tom that won us over on the ending, 592 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,559 But we found the absurdity of that whole ending just 593 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,599 somewhat you know, appropriate, And you know, we're talking about 594 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,680 you know, text and subtext and all that sort of thing. 595 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,799 Like I feel like the third issue like it's saying 596 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,200 something and he can kind of say whatever you wanted 597 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,599 to say, and that's and that's kind of the sweet 598 00:33:03,599 --> 00:33:06,279 spot for these kinds of stories as opposed to like, oh, 599 00:33:06,359 --> 00:33:08,640 I know exactly what. Well, that's the thing. I actually 600 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,880 I don't know what issue for saying I know exactly 601 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,119 what their They want you to represent. They want you 602 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,240 to know of the characters. And that's a great point 603 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,319 too about the characters there. They are archetypes because she 604 00:33:19,319 --> 00:33:21,599 she's a social worker and she helps people, and he's 605 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,319 just just dude who lives in a basement. Listen to podcasts, 606 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,480 like you know, even like you know characters who are 607 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,839 like the villain or whatever. Right, you gotta have some 608 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,920 sort of something to grab onto that you either like 609 00:33:34,039 --> 00:33:36,759 about them or you can relate to about them. Otherwise 610 00:33:36,799 --> 00:33:38,920 they're just like yeah, I don't I don't care that 611 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,839 this guy got stuck in the shadow realm. I finally whatever, 612 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,599 he's kind of a loser anyway, right, you want to 613 00:33:44,599 --> 00:33:46,920 feel the tragedy. I I feel bad for his sister 614 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,240 being stuck under the water. Is she gonna drown? I 615 00:33:49,519 --> 00:33:53,599 don't know, but like, yeah, like they're just two I 616 00:33:53,599 --> 00:33:57,799 guess archetypal, stereotypical versions of whatever these characters are supposed 617 00:33:57,799 --> 00:33:59,680 to be. So they don't feel authithicy, you don't feel 618 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,319 real on that. That's a great point that you made there. 619 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,039 Speaker 1: I mean, it's rough, isn't it. How should you present 620 00:34:05,119 --> 00:34:08,000 this stuff? How should you approach this stuff? It sounds 621 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,239 like we've been pretty down on this issue, but I 622 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:15,519 honestly didn't hate it. Yeah, I still generally enjoyed it. 623 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,000 I think I was just a little puzzled by it. 624 00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:21,480 And we can think these things out and try and 625 00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:24,719 figure them out, and that's fine. Sometimes that's part of 626 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:31,360 the thing. I also understand Twilight Zone being a bit 627 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:36,480 more explicit and arch in the way it is presented 628 00:34:36,519 --> 00:34:39,880 in a comic book because it's a different medium. I 629 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:46,400 don't think subtlety always plays as well in a comic book. 630 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,880 I mean it can do. I've been a comic book 631 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,199 reader for years, so I've been exposed to a lot 632 00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:54,199 of different comics. I'm not saying it can't be that, 633 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,880 but I understand being a bit more explicit in things 634 00:34:59,119 --> 00:35:02,119 in a comic book format, and that's going to play 635 00:35:02,159 --> 00:35:06,880 differently to pretty much everyone who picks it up, I suppose, 636 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,960 So I don't know. I don't know. I mean, if 637 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,800 I was to rank the issues so far, I would 638 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:19,639 go issue three in first place. Issue one in second place. 639 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,679 I would put this in fairst place, and then I 640 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,920 would put issue too at last place. 641 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 2: What about you, Yeah, I am very similar. I would 642 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:34,360 go three, one, two four, This one would be last. 643 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,480 And I don't hate this. Am I gonna go burn 644 00:35:36,519 --> 00:35:38,760 my coffee of it or anything like that? Look, I 645 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,000 like that the idea of there being like a portal 646 00:35:42,039 --> 00:35:44,079 at the bottom of a boat that takes you to 647 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,880 like a different reality. I find that interesting. That's a unique, 648 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,800 fun concept, and I wish they would have done more 649 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,679 with it instead of just just leaving us confused as we. 650 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: Were top Okay, so we will leave it there. I 651 00:35:58,039 --> 00:36:04,559 think as this series progressors, we will probably return to 652 00:36:04,599 --> 00:36:06,559 it every now and again. We're not going to go 653 00:36:06,679 --> 00:36:09,320 day and date, I mean, at this point to recording 654 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,599 with three issues behind anyway, But that's okay, you know, 655 00:36:13,679 --> 00:36:15,599 we will. We will just head back to it every 656 00:36:15,679 --> 00:36:18,320 now and again. You know, sometimes me and new Zac 657 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,880 will maybe get Alan back on down the line and things. 658 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,440 But but yeah, it's it's still nice to have some 659 00:36:26,519 --> 00:36:29,880 new Twilight Zone stuff to talk about, and I'm enjoying 660 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,480 the effort that people are putting in to find that 661 00:36:33,559 --> 00:36:38,079 Twilight Zone voice that's as much part of me enjoying 662 00:36:38,079 --> 00:36:40,760 it as anything. So yeah, I'm enjoying this quite a bit. 663 00:36:41,119 --> 00:36:44,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, we still have our contractually obligated issue number five 664 00:36:44,599 --> 00:36:46,239 we have to cover, Tom So, We're not we're not 665 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,119 quite done yet with our initial run here, right. 666 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 1: No, not at all, not at all, Okay, Zach So, 667 00:36:54,079 --> 00:36:56,400 I hope you'll join me again for issue number five 668 00:36:56,519 --> 00:36:59,440 next time. And why don't you let people know what 669 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,840 you're up to in the podcast and realm on where 670 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:03,599 they can find you. 671 00:37:04,039 --> 00:37:07,320 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm happy to be here on the Twilight Zone podcast, 672 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,239 so whenever you ask, Tom So, I will be back 673 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,039 for issue five, despite me not liking issue four. That's 674 00:37:12,039 --> 00:37:16,480 the thing right about episodic episodic comics, episodic TV. You 675 00:37:16,599 --> 00:37:19,639 never know what the next installment is going to bring. 676 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,280 And yes, you can find me and my podcast always 677 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,800 sold on to Smallville on social media at always Malva. 678 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,760 With the one s we talk about the Young Superman 679 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,039 show from the early two thousands and I have finished 680 00:37:34,519 --> 00:37:37,320 covering every single episode and now we're just having fun. 681 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,079 We're doing rankings were eventually we're going to talk about 682 00:37:40,119 --> 00:37:42,280 speaking of comic books, there's some comic books we're going 683 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,239 to talk about. There's some novels. So it is a 684 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,000 very different speed as we're encountering here covering a comic 685 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,559 book versus covering an episode of a TV show, totally 686 00:37:50,559 --> 00:37:54,719 different approach, So looking for I'm looking forward to doing 687 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,719 that as well. And much like the Twilight Zone, Tom, 688 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,599 there are Smallville comics that came out when Smallvelle was 689 00:38:02,599 --> 00:38:04,880 on the air, and there are smallvell comics that came 690 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,719 out after, so that I always you know, I know 691 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:08,679 we've talked about this with our fans. There's something about 692 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,119 talking about the time. Material that came out around the 693 00:38:12,159 --> 00:38:14,800 time of the actual thing has such a unique, different 694 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,039 flavor than the whole all Right, it's twenty years later, 695 00:38:17,079 --> 00:38:20,000 we're looking back at this amazing thing. You know, it's 696 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,280 totally different energy and so I'm glad that those flavors exist. 697 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,000 So anyway, all that to say, look me up at 698 00:38:27,039 --> 00:38:29,400 Always Malville with one s out there on the internet. 699 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,519 Speaker 1: Now, Zach, you've been part of this podcast for longer 700 00:38:32,519 --> 00:38:35,119 than I can remember now. To be honest, I can't 701 00:38:35,159 --> 00:38:38,679 remember the first thing we did. You know, there's been 702 00:38:38,679 --> 00:38:41,239 a law, whether it's here or in the After hours 703 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,440 club There's been a lot of times that you've jumped 704 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,199 on board, and I've often referred to you as the 705 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:51,039 fifth Beetle of the twilight Zone podcast. And you have 706 00:38:51,519 --> 00:38:54,000 attended sailing Fest with me a couple of times in 707 00:38:54,039 --> 00:38:58,559 the past. Yes, and I'm attending sailing Fest this August. 708 00:38:58,639 --> 00:38:59,760 You plan on joining me. 709 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,760 Speaker 2: I plan on joining you, Tom, when you were at Sirlingfest. 710 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,400 I am at Stirlingfest. That's how I approach it. So 711 00:39:05,639 --> 00:39:09,880 we've had a couple of great times there, meaning meeting 712 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,079 and then meeting again and hang out with our new 713 00:39:12,079 --> 00:39:14,440 friends we made over the starling Fest years and over 714 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,119 the airwaves here. So as you said, I've said many 715 00:39:18,159 --> 00:39:22,679 times over the course of talking about stirling Fest, the 716 00:39:22,679 --> 00:39:26,000 event itself is great, but the icing on the cake, 717 00:39:26,039 --> 00:39:28,000 the cherry on top of all that, is getting just 718 00:39:28,039 --> 00:39:31,079 to hang out all together. I found my people Alphas, 719 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:35,880 you know. Listen to that podcast by basement. 720 00:39:36,079 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: There you go. 721 00:39:37,559 --> 00:39:40,239 Speaker 2: So no, I definitely looking forward to coming back to 722 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,239 sterling Fest for a third time and hanging out with 723 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:43,920 you and everybody. 724 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 1: Tom excellent. I cannot wait. I cannot wait. So everyone 725 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,559 check out the last episodes when I talk about sailing Fest. 726 00:39:51,559 --> 00:39:55,000 This year. The excitement is only going to build in 727 00:39:55,039 --> 00:39:59,400 the next few months. And go to rodsailing dot com 728 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,840 to get your tickets and then you can come and 729 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,960 hang out with me and Zach and have a great time. 730 00:40:05,519 --> 00:40:07,400 So Zach, thank you for joining. 731 00:40:07,119 --> 00:40:10,519 Speaker 2: Me absolutely, Tom thanks for having me, and we will. 732 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 1: Catch you next time here on the Twilight Term Podcast. 733 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:13,559 Bye for now.