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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to another edition of the Chicks on the Right podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>We are talking to Zach Abraham and he is the

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<v Speaker 1>chief investment officer of Bulwark Capital Management. Is Zach, how

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<v Speaker 1>you doing today?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm doing great. Thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, listen. We're going to talk about frugality today,

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<v Speaker 1>which is something I have not always been good at,

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<v Speaker 1>but I'm learning as I get older. There's a recent

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<v Speaker 1>article that just came out from the Wall Street Journal

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<v Speaker 1>and it framed homemade lunches as some kind of an

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<v Speaker 1>economic problem, which I find very interesting. There's a question

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<v Speaker 1>wrapped up in all this to just bear with me,

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<v Speaker 1>but apparently office workers are bringing brown bags and touugh

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<v Speaker 1>aware instead of spending, like, you know, twenty twenty five

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<v Speaker 1>bucks on a salad that somebody else makes. And somehow

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<v Speaker 1>this frugal, grown up adulting decision is like a threat

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<v Speaker 1>to the economy. Now, I can't believe this is even

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<v Speaker 1>a thing, but it is. But like casual places that

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<v Speaker 1>serve this kind of food are struggling because this is

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<v Speaker 1>what they're saying that they're struggling. But I should we

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<v Speaker 1>be worried that that budgeting bed behavior is getting framed?

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<v Speaker 1>Is like a bad thing just because it's not fueling

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<v Speaker 1>their profit margins, because I feel like we should be

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<v Speaker 1>celebrating this kind of frugality.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, yeah, one hundred percent. I mean it's I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>it's absolutely ridiculous. First of all, you know, uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>quick grab you know, lunch bowls or salad places aren't

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<v Speaker 3>exactly the you know, the heart of innovation of the

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<v Speaker 3>US economy first of all.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, and maybe the healthiest not only the healthiest either, right.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, no, And I think it's one of the easiest,

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<v Speaker 3>it's one of the easiest ways to sit there and

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<v Speaker 3>save Like I mean, you know, let's let's say you've

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<v Speaker 3>got somebody that spends you know, fifty bucks a week

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<v Speaker 3>on coffee and lunch, which we all know that's not.

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<v Speaker 2>Hard to do.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, that's like so low.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, that's that's super check low.

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<v Speaker 1>For a lot of people. Yeah huh.

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<v Speaker 3>But but you cut that out, Okay, we're talking about

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<v Speaker 3>that's two hundred bucks a month. Yes, that's twenty five

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<v Speaker 3>hundred dollars a year, and you start applying some interest

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<v Speaker 3>to that, and you see what a big difference it makes, Like,

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<v Speaker 3>and I will confess, so I am somebody. I haven't

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<v Speaker 3>brought a lot unless something was really good from home

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<v Speaker 3>that I wanted to eat. Again, I order lunch every

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<v Speaker 3>single day. Right, I am not frugal when it comes

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<v Speaker 3>to that. I used to be, and I got tired

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<v Speaker 3>of it, and so now I it's it's kind of

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<v Speaker 3>a gift I give myself, right, Yeah, but you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm I'm also not, you know, struggling to fund my

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<v Speaker 3>four to one k and all, you know, all these

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<v Speaker 3>other things. You've got to put it in context. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>cutting out I think it's a wonderful thing to do.

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<v Speaker 3>And and but it points to something that we've got,

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<v Speaker 3>something we've got going on in this country culturally, and

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<v Speaker 3>it's not new, but it's just the way that we

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<v Speaker 3>look at things, right. Like, So you hear that saving

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<v Speaker 3>money and being frugal is bad for the economy, right,

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<v Speaker 3>and you hear people talk about the same thing regarding

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<v Speaker 3>government spending. Guys, there are things in an economy that

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<v Speaker 3>may be beneficial in the short run for GDP gross

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<v Speaker 3>domestic product that are not necessarily beneficial for the economy

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<v Speaker 3>in the long run. And anybody that tries to make

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<v Speaker 3>an argument that whether on a personal level or on

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<v Speaker 3>a government level, that saving money by not buying superfluous,

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<v Speaker 3>unneeded stuff is a bad idea.

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<v Speaker 2>Those people are idiots, right, And if that is what.

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<v Speaker 3>Is going to keep you from going in recession, you're

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<v Speaker 3>in a recession anyway, right.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not that's not going to be the deciding factor.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, what I will say is I do think a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of people and it's too early. I'm not at

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<v Speaker 3>all calling for a recession. I don't see that right now.

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<v Speaker 3>But you are seeing a lot of signs. So, for instance,

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<v Speaker 3>I think that they're looking at that wrong. We're hearing

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<v Speaker 3>from a lot of different places that restaurant traffic is

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<v Speaker 3>down sharply the beginning.

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<v Speaker 2>Of this year.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so, believe it or not, one of the biggest

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<v Speaker 3>or I think it actually is.

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<v Speaker 2>The biggest restaurant day of the year. Is Mother's Day?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, yep, that makes sense because we do not want

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<v Speaker 1>to cook.

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<v Speaker 2>Yep, yep.

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<v Speaker 3>And I've got a client that works for a fairly

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<v Speaker 3>large restaurant supply business, right and they have felt pressure

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<v Speaker 3>and less business coming out of the restaurant side of

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<v Speaker 3>the economy for about the last four months, and they

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<v Speaker 3>really saw Mother's Day this year as being kind of

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<v Speaker 3>their rebound, right, like they bounce back strong. And he

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<v Speaker 3>was telling me that Mother's Day numbers significantly missed what

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<v Speaker 3>they were expecting and were significantly down from last.

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<v Speaker 1>Year, disappointing for them. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And look, what I think is clear is that

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<v Speaker 3>the consumer is pulling back right for now.

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<v Speaker 1>And why do you think that is? Because you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you got Trump in office. Do you think people would

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<v Speaker 1>be like, Okay, it's like Daddy's got this, We're all

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<v Speaker 1>going to be okay, you know what I mean. I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's very interesting. I just think it would be

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<v Speaker 1>the opposite. I would think it would be the opposite, right.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, yeah, but you got to remember, I mean you've

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<v Speaker 3>got to look at where prices are, right, So, I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>after a while, people get fatigued, and the further you know,

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<v Speaker 3>you start getting priced inflation fatigue.

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<v Speaker 2>The other thing is the further and further we.

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<v Speaker 3>Get away from COVID, right, the residual effects and just

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<v Speaker 3>the money itself that was handed out right, just thrown

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<v Speaker 3>out the window.

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<v Speaker 2>That money. We're getting further and further away from that.

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<v Speaker 3>Impulse, right, And like it's one of the things that

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<v Speaker 3>we've said is that and we would have expected it

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<v Speaker 3>to happen already. I think there are reasons that it

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<v Speaker 3>hasn't that we could dig that are pretty vast and

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<v Speaker 3>expansive to discuss. But bottom line is, at some point,

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<v Speaker 3>when you have a fiscal impulse that large and it

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<v Speaker 3>stops and a government starts to exert any level of

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<v Speaker 3>financial responsibility, you'd expect to have some type of economic

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<v Speaker 3>slow down or recession in the not too distant future.

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<v Speaker 3>Not necessarily because are going bad, but it's like trying

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<v Speaker 3>to maintain a sugar high for like six hours.

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<v Speaker 2>You know what I'm saying.

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<v Speaker 3>It just doesn't You're not going to hold that altitude.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, in normal cruising altitude for the economy

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<v Speaker 3>is not that, so you kind of said. And then

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<v Speaker 3>you're seeing default rates on used cars picking up to

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<v Speaker 3>rates that we haven't really seen since eight oh nine.

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<v Speaker 2>There's just a lot of signs of weakness.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think for whatever reason, and and like I said,

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<v Speaker 3>it shouldn't be a shock when you look at prices,

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<v Speaker 3>when you look at home sales, when you look at

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<v Speaker 3>all these things. To me, it's really remarkable that you

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<v Speaker 3>haven't gone into recession already. But but yeah, to make

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<v Speaker 3>the argument that being frugal and saving some money is

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<v Speaker 3>it good for the economy. I'll take the other side

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<v Speaker 3>of that, and I'll encourage everybody man sock it away,

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<v Speaker 3>save money on lunch, especially the younger you are.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, man, pack lunch.

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<v Speaker 1>I love it. It's like what you said about the

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<v Speaker 1>coffee thing. Like, I don't know anything about sus Ormon

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<v Speaker 1>except for the one thing that she said, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think she's kind of famous for that. She's like, if

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<v Speaker 1>you waste money on coffee, it's like peeing one million

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<v Speaker 1>dollars down the drain. Because she said, I wouldn't buy

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<v Speaker 1>my cup. I wouldn't buy a cup of coffee anywhere

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<v Speaker 1>ever if I can afford it, because I would not

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<v Speaker 1>insult myself by wasting money that way. It literally is

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<v Speaker 1>what you're saying, because it's like it's a want, not

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<v Speaker 1>a need. And she said, say you spend, like you said,

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred bucks on coffee each month. You can put

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<v Speaker 1>that one hundred bucks to a roth ira and after

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<v Speaker 1>forty years it would have grown to one million dollars

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<v Speaker 1>to twelve percent. At a twelve percent rate, It's exactly

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<v Speaker 1>what you're saying.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't.

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<v Speaker 1>But but there's but I think a lot of it's cultural, Zach,

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<v Speaker 1>because like people like there's Starbe's, they've got a home,

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<v Speaker 1>there's Starvey's and a lot of and they walk around

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<v Speaker 1>with their little cups and it's like it's a it's

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<v Speaker 1>a cultural thing, right, So retraining people or people retraining

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<v Speaker 1>themselves to say I don't need that daily cup of coffee,

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<v Speaker 1>you know I or just just saying themselves, I can

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<v Speaker 1>do it at home. Coffee is coffee.

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<v Speaker 2>I can make this.

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<v Speaker 1>At home, I can take it to work. I can

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<v Speaker 1>make my lunch at home, I can take it to work.

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<v Speaker 1>Retraining and that, to me, that's smart. It's just smart.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Well or the flip side, like you were saying, is it?

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's a more interesting cultural observation to talk

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<v Speaker 3>about that person that is, well, I just can't live

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<v Speaker 3>without my Starbucks, right. And I try to tell this

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<v Speaker 3>to young people all the time, and I'm not I am.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll be the first person to tell you that I

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<v Speaker 3>behind every good success story, there is luck. There are

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<v Speaker 3>things that bounced your way. It's not all you're doing.

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<v Speaker 3>It's blessing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's luck, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>I think a lot of those other factors play into it.

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<v Speaker 3>But one of the reasons I can buy lunch every

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<v Speaker 3>single day is because the amount of money that I

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<v Speaker 3>spend on lunch is immaterial to my overall income. Okay, right,

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<v Speaker 3>And but I didn't get there by drinking my Starbucks

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<v Speaker 3>every day. I still don't go get coffee at a

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<v Speaker 3>Starbucks because for the same reason I just I can't

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<v Speaker 3>square it. And it's this lesson that you want to

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<v Speaker 3>teach people that used to be common sense in this

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<v Speaker 3>in this culture that has just gone away, which is

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<v Speaker 3>we should have it now right.

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<v Speaker 2>It's yes to feel it should feel good right now,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, And you're just like, guys, that's not the

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<v Speaker 2>way it works. That's not the way it works. If

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<v Speaker 2>you want to be able to do that, you usually have.

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<v Speaker 3>To go through a period of time where you don't, right,

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<v Speaker 3>And that's just that's reality.

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<v Speaker 2>Embrace it.

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<v Speaker 3>Quit trying to pretend you're you know, you're somewhere in

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<v Speaker 3>a different financial place than you are. Accept it and

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<v Speaker 3>try to you know, that's accepting those realities and adopting

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<v Speaker 3>and and and adapting those practices that we're that we're

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<v Speaker 3>discussing here. That's how you get into a different stratosphere economically, right,

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<v Speaker 3>instant gratification No, no, And it's just and and and

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<v Speaker 3>there's another interesting I don't want to go too far

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<v Speaker 3>off the off the.

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<v Speaker 2>Path on this one, but it kind of goes back

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<v Speaker 2>to you know.

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<v Speaker 3>Like if you think, well, I just can't give up

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<v Speaker 3>my Starbucks, like think think about a vapid thing that

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<v Speaker 3>is to say, when you're having financial problems, and yet

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<v Speaker 3>people but people aren't embarrassed to say it, you know

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<v Speaker 3>what I mean, Like, at some point, at some point

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<v Speaker 3>if like, let's say you're strapped, you've got credit cards

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<v Speaker 3>that are in collections, you owe money to the irs,

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<v Speaker 3>And it used to be a well, I just you know,

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<v Speaker 3>you got walking out with your ten dollars Venti frappuccino

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<v Speaker 3>or whatever it is, you know, and you'd be embarrassed

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<v Speaker 3>for people to know because you'd be like, oh, they

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<v Speaker 3>think I'm an idiot, right, But nowadays you've kind of

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<v Speaker 3>like taken the guardrails of shame off of culture.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't I.

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<v Speaker 3>Don't think it's I don't think it's been a very

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<v Speaker 3>good idea.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. To me, it's the same thing as saying, if

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<v Speaker 1>I really need that pack of cigarettes, every day. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>how we really need it. It's not any different, really.

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<v Speaker 3>No, no, how is it any different? And then also

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<v Speaker 3>with the young people too, like getting that through their heads, like, hey,

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<v Speaker 3>the quicker, you will embrace the hard, right. First of all,

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<v Speaker 3>you will realize it wasn't nearly as hard as you

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<v Speaker 3>thought it was.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And second of all, the quicker, you embrace the hard,

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<v Speaker 2>the quicker, you're done with it.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, And time passes really quickly.

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<v Speaker 2>So fast, right, so fast and yeah, and everybody says it.

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<v Speaker 3>And and if you're like me out there, it'll catch

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<v Speaker 3>you off guard, you know, because you have these moments

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<v Speaker 3>I know, you know, you know, you have these moments

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<v Speaker 3>where you go, oh my gosh, but you start having

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<v Speaker 3>kids in life, just go and you hear yourself say it,

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<v Speaker 3>and you're like, oh my gosh, I sounds just like

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<v Speaker 3>my parents.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I know, but but it really does.

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<v Speaker 3>And if you'll embrace the hard early on in life,

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<v Speaker 3>like I said, you'll, you'll you know, whether it's the budgeting,

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<v Speaker 3>whether it's the packing your lunch, whether it's setting extra

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<v Speaker 3>money aside.

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<v Speaker 2>That time goes by so fast.

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<v Speaker 3>And I can promise you this at that once you're

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<v Speaker 3>sitting there saying, boy, that time went so fast.

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<v Speaker 2>You will be absolutely thrilled that you took that route.

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<v Speaker 2>Total right, totally always worth it.

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<v Speaker 3>I've never once met somebody who said, you know, the

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<v Speaker 3>biggest regret in my life is that I was too

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<v Speaker 3>responsible and work too well.

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<v Speaker 2>True.

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<v Speaker 3>Haven't heard that regret now now now maybe, And I'm

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<v Speaker 3>not talking about like, oh I wished I would have

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<v Speaker 3>worked more rather than spending time with my family, and

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not talking about that, but but yeah, just it's.

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<v Speaker 1>No, that's totally different. Frugality is totally different than time

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<v Speaker 1>spent with loved ones and stuff like that. I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's we're talking about a completely different thing. But I

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely agree. Absolutely So Okay, so if people want more

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<v Speaker 1>lessons and they want to be able to go to

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<v Speaker 1>fancy dinners when they retire, because that is a perfect

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<v Speaker 1>time to do it, how can they reach you, how

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<v Speaker 1>can they see you, how can they do all the

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<v Speaker 1>things bullwork?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes?

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<v Speaker 3>So yeah, easiest way to find us you just go

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<v Speaker 3>Borcapitalmanagement dot com.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh.

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<v Speaker 3>We just had one of our webinars, but we'll have

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<v Speaker 3>another one coming up here in the next.

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<v Speaker 2>Four or five weeks.

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<v Speaker 3>You can sign up for that, and then we do

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<v Speaker 3>our Daily Dots our show every single day, including interviews

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<v Speaker 3>with other experts in the industry.

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<v Speaker 2>And you can find that at.

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<v Speaker 3>Know Your Risk podcast dot com or just google Know

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<v Speaker 3>Your Risk Podcast on YouTube or google it. You can

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<v Speaker 3>search it on YouTube. And we're even on Instagram now,

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<v Speaker 3>Instagram and TikTok.

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<v Speaker 2>Can you believe that, I know, I know, I love it?

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<v Speaker 1>Are you put your Daily Dots on Instagram?

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<v Speaker 2>You know?

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<v Speaker 3>So I got a confession. I don't know and I've

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<v Speaker 3>never been to the Instagram page.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, well that's something I will have to talk to

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<v Speaker 1>your people about that, because yeh'd be great because you

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<v Speaker 1>said the Daily Dots are like nice more souls, like chunks.

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<v Speaker 1>They're not like super long.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, yeah. Twenty five to forty minutes.

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<v Speaker 3>And what we're doing is we're trying to summarize, just

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<v Speaker 3>summarize all of the applicable economic, market and political news

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<v Speaker 3>that has to do with the financial world.

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<v Speaker 2>The goal is, if you have twenty to thirty.

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<v Speaker 3>Minutes and all you do is listen to our show,

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<v Speaker 3>you're going to know everything you need to know about

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<v Speaker 3>what's going on in the global markets and economy. That's

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<v Speaker 3>the goal, right, because we all know it's tough to

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<v Speaker 3>get good information out there, so we're like, hey, we'll

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<v Speaker 3>make this a place where you can go to get

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<v Speaker 3>an unvarnished look at what's going on in the world

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<v Speaker 3>of finance.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's the good stuff, you guys. Check them out.

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<v Speaker 2>Investment advisory services offered through Trek FINANCIALCNS see Registered Investment Advisor.

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<v Speaker 3>The opinions expressed in this program or for general informational

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<v Speaker 3>purposes only, and are not intended to provide specific advice

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<v Speaker 3>or recommendations for any individual or on any specific security.

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<v Speaker 3>Any references to performance of security so are thought to

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<v Speaker 3>be materially accurate, and actual performance may different.

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<v Speaker 2>Investments involve risk and are not guaranteed. Past performance doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>guarantee future results. TRAK twenty fourth through Zeroly