Speaker 1: This is Ray Cipriano out of full Ward, Texas, the
Speaker 1: home of the late great Ben Hogan. I play out
Speaker 1: of Rockwood Golf Course in Fullward. This is Golf Smarter
Speaker 1: number nine sixty seven.
Speaker 2: On Sportsbox, you're able to pull the ball data and
Speaker 2: the club data from Foresight devices directly into our app,
Speaker 2: so you can see everything we measure on Sportsbox alongside
Speaker 2: the outcome data. But what Bryson specifically Data Dalkwist, his coach,
Speaker 2: has been using sports Box for a couple of years now.
Speaker 2: Bryson and Data were like, we need to use this
Speaker 2: to figure this out for Bryson. So what we did
Speaker 2: was we collected hundreds of his golf swings the week
Speaker 2: before the US opened, by the way, and we were
Speaker 2: able to see what in his motion correlated highly with
Speaker 2: a spin axis going positive because that's a fade shot.
Speaker 2: And we used our sports science team and our data
Speaker 2: scientist got to work on the data sent and figured
Speaker 2: out that there were three things that are really highly
Speaker 2: correlated with seventy percent plus correlated with the push fade shot.
Speaker 2: And so through data, not how it looks or not
Speaker 2: someone's opinion, we were able to tell Bryson when you
Speaker 2: do this versus this, you push faded. He acted on
Speaker 2: this information at Pinehurst the week of the US Opened
Speaker 2: this year, and Dana and our team we were there
Speaker 2: with Bryson measuring every swing to see if he can
Speaker 2: hit the ideal ranges on sportsbox on the range, and
Speaker 2: he got his swing to a place where it felt perfect, like, wow,
Speaker 2: this feels like when I shot fifty eight. This is
Speaker 2: how free my swing felt, and now I can do this.
Speaker 2: And he won out and won the US Open. That's
Speaker 2: how the game should be played. Like we shouldn't go
Speaker 2: in a search. We should let the data tell us
Speaker 2: what happens when we miss it versus hit it.
Speaker 3: Great the impact AI is already having on revolutionizing golf training.
Speaker 4: With the entrepreneur g Ha Lee, this is Golf Smarter,
Speaker 4: sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf minds to
Speaker 4: help you lower your score and raise your golf IQ.
Speaker 2: Here's your host, Fred Green.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the Golf Smarter podcast, Jere.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me friend. Excited to get this conversation going.
Speaker 3: I'm excited to hear about what you're doing. Because if
Speaker 3: Time magazine is going to come up with the person
Speaker 3: of the Year in twenty twenty four, it's probably gonna
Speaker 3: be AI. And usually with technology, golf lags behind a
Speaker 3: couple of years at least, right, And here you are
Speaker 3: bringing AI into golf in a way that benefits almost everybody,
Speaker 3: if not everybody.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, So.
Speaker 3: Explain to me what it is that sportsbox dot AI
Speaker 3: is and does for all of us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's never been an easy way for me
Speaker 2: to explain this. We've been using forty five minutes, I know,
Speaker 2: but in the shortest possible way. What we do is
Speaker 2: make measuring the golf sling and the movement in the
Speaker 2: golf swing possible through just your mobile phone, pointing and
Speaker 2: shooting the camera that's installed in your phone to be
Speaker 2: able to get full accurate three D motion data on
Speaker 2: everything that's happening in your swing, which is, by the way,
Speaker 2: an extremely complicated thing to do with your body, which
Speaker 2: is why golf is so infuriatingly difficult. And we're hoping
Speaker 2: that we can make that process a little bit easier
Speaker 2: by giving people a tool that makes it easy to
Speaker 2: measure and quantify what's going on.
Speaker 3: And is this for coaches or is this for golfers.
Speaker 2: It's for coaches, it's for club fitters, it's for average
Speaker 2: golfers who may or may not work with a coach
Speaker 2: to practice with. We're not a quote unquote AI coach.
Speaker 2: We're not here to displace any golf professionals out there.
Speaker 2: We're simply making it possible for coaches and golfers to
Speaker 2: learn and teach in a better way. Well, I mentioned
Speaker 2: the measurement piece, and the reason why we think that's
Speaker 2: so valuable is because in anything in life, if you
Speaker 2: want to improve, you have to start by measuring. So
Speaker 2: if you want to improve your fitness, well, what do
Speaker 2: you want to improve? Do you want to lose weight
Speaker 2: in pounds? Do you want to gain muscle? Do you
Speaker 2: want to change your body composition? What do you need
Speaker 2: to do? First? You have to know exactly where you
Speaker 2: are and where you want to go. If you're not
Speaker 2: a measuring Yeah, if you're not measuring it, then you're
Speaker 2: just dreaming. You're just hoping I want to lose weight,
Speaker 2: I want to look better, but you're not actually putting
Speaker 2: it into action without any any measurement. So same thing,
Speaker 2: and we in golf, we started with where the ball
Speaker 2: is going, right, We started measuring that about twenty plus
Speaker 2: years ago with the advent of launch monitors, we're not
Speaker 2: able to measure. Hey, do you want to hit it higher? Well,
Speaker 2: how high do you hit it? Now? How much higher
Speaker 2: do you want to hit it? Well? That looks spinny too, spinny? Well,
Speaker 2: what does that mean? You know? Like, you need to
Speaker 2: be able to measure where you are and where you
Speaker 2: want to go in order for you to actually make
Speaker 2: progress on it. Why are we not applying the same
Speaker 2: logic to the most important piece of the equation, which
Speaker 2: is you're swaying how you move in this swing? Right,
Speaker 2: let's start measuring it so that we're not just describing
Speaker 2: what we're seeing with our own eyes, which is subjective
Speaker 2: by the way, Like what I see and how I
Speaker 2: would describe something that's happening might be completely different from
Speaker 2: how you see it. Right, what looks like not enough
Speaker 2: turn quote unquot maybe look like a lot of turn
Speaker 2: for you, or feel like a lot of turn to
Speaker 2: you for you. Right, So let's get on the exact
Speaker 2: same page about what's going on. And that's the only
Speaker 2: way to do that is through measurements like inches and
Speaker 2: degrees and not through descriptions.
Speaker 3: I've talked to so many amateur golfers who struggle with
Speaker 3: getting a lesson and understanding the communication between the teacher
Speaker 3: and the student on what exactly the teacher is trying
Speaker 3: to explain. They'll take video of you. They'll put you
Speaker 3: up against Brooks Koepka or Bryson De'shamba or Tiger Woods,
Speaker 3: and they'll put you side by side and they'll draw
Speaker 3: lines and say here's what he's doing. Now, this is
Speaker 3: what you should be doing and what And my own
Speaker 3: experience and from people I talk to, they walk away
Speaker 3: from that going I'm not sure what he was talking about.
Speaker 3: I think I get it, but I don't know what
Speaker 3: I need to do with that. Yeah, does sports Box
Speaker 3: AI bridge that gap or widen it?
Speaker 2: We absolutely Our number one value two coaches and golfers
Speaker 2: is that we are bridging that communication gap. Because, like
Speaker 2: I said before, if you're talking about it in terms
Speaker 2: of theories and descriptions, it's in the ivy beholder. But
Speaker 2: if you're saying you're at eighty degrees and I want
Speaker 2: you to get to ninety degrees, there's no other way
Speaker 2: to interpret that. Two people looking at that information is
Speaker 2: going to get the exact same thing out of it,
Speaker 2: versus I want you to turn more is going to
Speaker 2: have leave a lot of things up to interpretation. So
Speaker 2: that is one of the biggest values that we provide
Speaker 2: for coaches and how they teach and in students and
Speaker 2: how they know learn how they learn.
Speaker 3: So you're saying that for the student, for the golfer,
Speaker 3: this is easy to comprehend what we're looking at or easier.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And especially for golfers who may be new
Speaker 2: to some of the jargon that exists, like we just
Speaker 2: throw around like casually, oh that's reverse pivot and like
Speaker 2: that's side bending to like create too much torque and
Speaker 2: all this like language that you know really doesn't say
Speaker 2: anything to somebody who doesn't who's not familiar, and so
Speaker 2: let's talk about it in terminology that is universally understandable.
Speaker 2: That's one of the biggest things that we care about.
Speaker 3: I completely understand that because when I started doing this
Speaker 3: podcast back in two thousand and five, and I was
Speaker 3: somewhat new to golf. I'd only been playing a couple
Speaker 3: of years. There'd be times I'd be doing interviews with
Speaker 3: people and I'd be going, oh, wait, wait, what does
Speaker 3: that mean. I'm not sure now. I kind of feel
Speaker 3: guilty in some ways because after doing this for almost
Speaker 3: completing nineteen years, I get some of the jargon. Now
Speaker 3: I understand what they're saying, but I feel like I'm
Speaker 3: possibly leaving people out of the conversation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, I've I've had the pleasure of teaching my
Speaker 2: own husband from scratch, you know, five years ago, and
Speaker 2: now he's a you know, a ten handicap. He's a
Speaker 2: long way and I've I'm at that stage in my
Speaker 2: life where my friends around me are at that age
Speaker 2: where they're like, well, tell me this golf thing, tell
Speaker 2: me more. How do I get into it? And so
Speaker 2: I go through this experience with brand new golfers pretty regularly,
Speaker 2: and when I try to throw around terminology that you know,
Speaker 2: I'm now used to, it goes nowhere. It really does,
Speaker 2: like and so you have to distill it to the
Speaker 2: things that are universally understandable. So I think I feel
Speaker 2: your pain. I've seen it happen multiple times with my
Speaker 2: friends and my family.
Speaker 3: So yeah, So again, let's break down what sports box
Speaker 3: AI does, where it lives, who uses it at how,
Speaker 3: Starting with again the user golfer on their phone, what
Speaker 3: happens a.
Speaker 2: Golfer can download the sports Box app. We're live on
Speaker 2: Android and iOS and.
Speaker 3: Is there a few for the app?
Speaker 2: There is, but there's a free experience if you want
Speaker 2: to try a few of our features out see if
Speaker 2: it's helpful to you. Then you can try pretty much
Speaker 2: everything on the free app, and if you go beyond
Speaker 2: certain number of swings, well we'll have you convert to
Speaker 2: a subscription at fifteen ninety nine a month or one
Speaker 2: hundred and ten dollars a year for the average consumer.
Speaker 2: So you know, a bucket of balls will get you
Speaker 2: access to the highest quality motion data you could possibly
Speaker 2: get in the game and unjust your phone and so yeah,
Speaker 2: and we recommend that you use a tripod that can
Speaker 2: keep the phone still in front of you position the
Speaker 2: correct way. Of course, if you have a friend who
Speaker 2: can take the videos for you, that works as well.
Speaker 2: And if you take a swing for the first time,
Speaker 2: we'll give you a few things that are out of
Speaker 2: range of what we typically see in really good golfers,
Speaker 2: so such as if you are not turning more than
Speaker 2: you know this eighty degree number, you're at seventy, that's
Speaker 2: something will flag and say, like, think about getting this
Speaker 2: to eighty five or ninety, so that you'll go through
Speaker 2: that process and you can turn that into a goal
Speaker 2: that you work towards. So going from assessment to a
Speaker 2: practice flow within the app so that you can, you know,
Speaker 2: set a range that you want to work towards with
Speaker 2: a specific movement pattern and and you know, we'll get
Speaker 2: you into this flow where you can take swings and
Speaker 2: get immediate feedback on whether you've hit eighty eighty five,
Speaker 2: eighty two, ninety with every single swing you make.
Speaker 3: I just mentioned a moment ago about setting goals and
Speaker 3: that the app helps you to do that. I went
Speaker 3: through your website pretty thoroughly saw some video of people
Speaker 3: of a professional LPGA player who talked about her specific goals.
Speaker 3: What are the goals that you can set and how
Speaker 3: can sportsbox AI help you achieve those?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what you really believe in is that there is
Speaker 2: no one swing for all, which is why we've developed
Speaker 2: a product that allows you to customize the goals that
Speaker 2: you want to work towards. So in that video you saw,
Speaker 2: Marina alex is an LPGA Tour winner player. We'd like
Speaker 2: to call her veteran now and she doesn't like that,
Speaker 2: but she's a veteran on tour, and for her, turning
Speaker 2: more isn't the issue. She tends to overturn and that
Speaker 2: gets her into trouble where she gets a little stuck.
Speaker 2: So her goal is getting her chest turned to a
Speaker 2: certain certain threshold that doesn't go above that. For most
Speaker 2: amateur golfers, they have the opposite problem. They don't get
Speaker 2: enough turn so they're probably, you know, somewhere in that's
Speaker 2: like seventy to eighty range, and they might want to
Speaker 2: go into a higher range. So we're not here to
Speaker 2: say this is exactly how you should swing. These are
Speaker 2: the goals you should work on. Here are some suggestions,
Speaker 2: but at the end of the day, we built the
Speaker 2: product for you to explore what makes you you swing
Speaker 2: your best, what makes you hit it the best, figure
Speaker 2: it out, know your numbers, and make it easier for
Speaker 2: you to go back to that good swing when you're struggling.
Speaker 2: And I you know, I mentioned the reason why I
Speaker 2: started this company. I was a professional golfer myself, played
Speaker 2: on the LPGA Tour, and I've obviously grown up playing
Speaker 2: the game, taking thousands of hours of lessons and what
Speaker 2: really ultimately drove me crazy and drove me to quit
Speaker 2: the game.
Speaker 3: And now You've really teased it up.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I would hit it great for a period of time,
Speaker 2: and then I would go through these like little cycles
Speaker 2: where I'm like, wait, that doesn't feel the same. I'm
Speaker 2: hitting it funny, I'm peeling it off to the right.
Speaker 2: What am I doing? And you don't always have access
Speaker 2: to your coach right when you're on the road playing.
Speaker 2: You just have to play it. You have to make
Speaker 2: it work. And so I would start doubting myself. I
Speaker 2: would start tinkering, and then and then I'll go through
Speaker 2: a three month dip where I'm just searching and I'm
Speaker 2: not able to hit it the way that i was doing. Like,
Speaker 2: and that should sound familiar to everyone listening, right, you
Speaker 2: hit it gray and on the range you get to
Speaker 2: the chorus, you hit it crappy, and you have no
Speaker 2: idea why and what is different in your swing when
Speaker 2: you hit a grave versus not. We want to shorten
Speaker 2: the cycle of your search by giving you a tool
Speaker 2: that allows you to know exactly what your numbers are,
Speaker 2: what makes you operate at your optimal range, and help
Speaker 2: you get back to when like, instead of a search,
Speaker 2: go look at your swing data doesn't match up with
Speaker 2: when you were hitting it great. And so while that
Speaker 2: might sound like a really you know, overwhelming process, it's
Speaker 2: not if you're going to go through much longer cycles
Speaker 2: of searching and going through bad golf if you don't
Speaker 2: have a way to get back to like the ones
Speaker 2: that the swings that work for you.
Speaker 3: You had mentioned that, you know, the turn that didn't
Speaker 3: go all the way that they thought or she was overturning.
Speaker 3: Are you talking about shoulders or hips or.
Speaker 2: For her it was the trunk trunk rotation, So test rotation.
Speaker 3: Okay, So what I understand that it does is it
Speaker 3: just takes one video and then converts it to a
Speaker 3: three D model from all different angles. I mean, this
Speaker 3: is obviously utilizing AI to the fullest in a way
Speaker 3: that has not been done before.
Speaker 2: I'm guessing exactly. And we've been doing this for you know,
Speaker 2: we've had a product out there for three years now. Yeah,
Speaker 2: pioneering this this field of single camera to detail three
Speaker 2: D and our three D includes the ability to see
Speaker 2: an avatar representation of your swing from all different angles,
Speaker 2: including you know three six D rotation, but also from
Speaker 2: is if you were you were to hang a camera
Speaker 2: from above you to see kind of top down, or
Speaker 2: if you are standing on a plane of glass and
Speaker 2: you're able to see what's going on from below, and
Speaker 2: so so you really get this full, full picture of
Speaker 2: what's going on in the swing, Like what does your
Speaker 2: swing look like from up here? Like that separation of
Speaker 2: the trunk and hips, Like what does that look like
Speaker 2: from top down? It looks very different from there versus
Speaker 2: a face on angle or down the line angle. Where
Speaker 2: is your hand position relative to your shoulders? Like again,
Speaker 2: that top down view gives you this incredible visualization to
Speaker 2: know exactly what's happening to the different body parts.
Speaker 3: And you take your video from you can either do
Speaker 3: it down the line or face on, or you specifically
Speaker 3: need to do it from face.
Speaker 2: On, face on or down the line. We give you
Speaker 2: different data sets if you took a video from here
Speaker 2: to hear, but yeah, you can get three D from
Speaker 2: both and it's.
Speaker 3: Not creating this random generic animation. It's actually creating your swing.
Speaker 3: It's you, but in a three D rendering without your
Speaker 3: face and.
Speaker 2: Just yes and has all those exactly.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to I'm trying to comprehend all. This is
Speaker 3: really amazing. Yeah, but it's really hard to get without
Speaker 3: you know, seeing it in action.
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, it's it's it's hard to describe over
Speaker 2: a podcast. So I so, does everybody download sports Box
Speaker 2: to see what it looks like?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: But yes, it's it takes. I mean, it's still like
Speaker 2: when I describe it to people, it still sounds like
Speaker 2: black magic. How do you do it? I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: it's magic, But actually it's pretty advanced AI that we
Speaker 2: had to develop train AI models to know exactly where
Speaker 2: those body boards are in three D to be able
Speaker 2: to do that accurate representation in a three D avatar. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we have to invent a lot of things along the
Speaker 2: way to make that work.
Speaker 3: And is that what's happened? That this is something that
Speaker 3: no one had done before? What prompted you to go?
Speaker 3: I got this? I know what we can do here?
Speaker 2: Well, I can't take credit for the technology. I have
Speaker 2: an amazing tech technology and AI team led by our CTO,
Speaker 2: Sam Meneker, And we also have a team of sports
Speaker 2: science experts led by doctor Phil Cheatham, who's spent his
Speaker 2: entire career in three D by mechanics, three D motion capture.
Speaker 2: He even built his own three d emotion capture system.
Speaker 2: So we've got this kind of I call it the
Speaker 2: three legs of the stool. We've got a AI technology
Speaker 2: team that's world class. We've got a sports science and
Speaker 2: by mechanics team that's world class. We've got a world
Speaker 2: class team of golf business and golf subject matter experts
Speaker 2: represented you know by yours truly, but also our amazing
Speaker 2: group of advisors and golf coach ambassadors that are constantly
Speaker 2: providing feedback on how to make our product better. Wow.
Speaker 3: So you said you played LPGA, but then you went
Speaker 3: to an advanced degree, so you have a business sense,
Speaker 3: business mind. I can't imagine that this is your first
Speaker 3: venture into doing something unique in the golf industry. Since
Speaker 3: you've gotten your degree, What is your history on how
Speaker 3: you got to hear?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I've taken a little bit of an exact
Speaker 2: path to where I am, and I'm sure it'll continue
Speaker 2: to is exag a little bit more. But I grew
Speaker 2: up playing golf, went to Yo for undergrad played golf
Speaker 2: there briefly, and then played professionally between two thousand and
Speaker 2: seven all the way through twenty eleven and nine. Ten
Speaker 2: eleven were my years on the LPG Tour, so I
Speaker 2: was incredibly lucky to have played at that level. And
Speaker 2: then afterwards I I represented my good friend Michelle Wee
Speaker 2: West at IMG her agency before going to business school,
Speaker 2: and after business school got great training on the kind
Speaker 2: of the business side of things skills that I needed
Speaker 2: to develop. I joined Top Golf, which at the time
Speaker 2: in twenty fifteen was going through this incredible transformation as
Speaker 2: a brand and a company, and I got to see
Speaker 2: and have a part in them building out Top Tracer
Speaker 2: through an acquisition of co Tracing.
Speaker 3: Where's the connection.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I got to see, you know, how technology
Speaker 2: could really transform. I mean, Top Golf in itself was
Speaker 2: doing this, but Top Technology could truly transform the way
Speaker 2: people interact with the game, how they get introduced to
Speaker 2: the game, and how it can help golfers develop. So
Speaker 2: it was a great experience there. In twenty twenty, I
Speaker 2: started sports Box with Sam Okay.
Speaker 3: Well top Top Golf definitely had an impact on getting
Speaker 3: more people interested in playing the game, whether they played
Speaker 3: or not, or just went to the bar and you know,
Speaker 3: had fun at Top Golf. But then with top Tracer,
Speaker 3: I think that Top Tracer really changed golf on television
Speaker 3: more than anything, besides the fact that now you can
Speaker 3: go to your local driving range that may have top
Speaker 3: tracer technology set up, which is just wonderful to have there.
Speaker 3: It's like having your own what's the word I'm looking for,
Speaker 3: but here, your own launch monitor. Thank you, your own
Speaker 3: launch monitor right there. But watching being able to watch
Speaker 3: a ball in flight and seeing what it does. Top
Speaker 3: tracer technology on golf television is mind blowing, absolutely and
Speaker 3: really has made a big change in the way we
Speaker 3: view view the game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and even you know the way that we talk
Speaker 2: about ball flights now, I mean five ten years ago,
Speaker 2: if you were to ask what's where McIlroy's ball speed,
Speaker 2: nobody would feeble to tell you what the number was,
Speaker 2: and so just the level of familiarity with the data
Speaker 2: would not be there with that top tracer. And we're
Speaker 2: doing something similar. We're getting integrated into golf broadcast where
Speaker 2: the analyst talking about the golf swing with sports box
Speaker 2: data layered on top of it, showing people what they
Speaker 2: avatar looks like. And we are seeing that people are
Speaker 2: more and more curious about motion data for their own
Speaker 2: swing after watching a pro pro swing being analyzed. So yeah,
Speaker 2: we're very bullish on motion data being kind of the
Speaker 2: next big frontier for the way that people consume consume
Speaker 2: golf content.
Speaker 3: Did I just get the sense that there's a possibility
Speaker 3: that we can be watching golf on television and automatically
Speaker 3: the analysts and the announcers are going to be able
Speaker 3: to pull up sports Box AI and see a breakdown
Speaker 3: of the swing in a three D rendering.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. And if you're if you're in a region where
Speaker 2: Sky Sports is available too, they're already doing that. They've
Speaker 2: been doing it all of this year.
Speaker 3: Oh congratulations, Yeah, thank you. So they're licensing it from
Speaker 3: you exactly, and oh my god, that would be huge
Speaker 3: to get it here in the States as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Sky Sports is.
Speaker 2: In the UK, isn't it Exactly? They're the ESPN of
Speaker 2: a europe Yeah. And on the state side, if you're
Speaker 2: watching any of the Golf Channel's instructional shows, such as
Speaker 2: The Golf Fixed by Devin Bonebreak, who is one of
Speaker 2: our ambassadors, every episode features an analysis on sports Box
Speaker 2: where they break down fully, you know, what is going
Speaker 2: on in a pro swing as an example of a
Speaker 2: move that they want to teach the audience.
Speaker 3: Wow, Okay, So you talk about Devin bone Break, who
Speaker 3: I've tried to get on the show before. We had
Speaker 3: an email exchange and then my emails disappeared from him.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to continue to try to get him
Speaker 3: back on the show, get him on the show first time,
Speaker 3: because I'd love to talk to him. But let's drop
Speaker 3: some other names here. As I look through your list
Speaker 3: of people on your website that are utilizing sportsbox dot
Speaker 3: AI or the app sports Box AI, I see names
Speaker 3: like Terry Rowles, Mike Adams, Vision fifty four, David Ledbetter,
Speaker 3: Bryson to Shambo. How are people like Bryson utilizing what
Speaker 3: you're doing? How did he get involved?
Speaker 2: So when we before we launched, even before we launched,
Speaker 2: we barely had a prototype, we were able to show
Speaker 2: what we had to David Lebetter and Sean Folly, and
Speaker 2: immediately they wanted to invest their own dollars into the company. Congratulations,
Speaker 2: thank you. And we have Michelle Ee West, mel Reid,
Speaker 2: Patty Tabatanakt, and Marina Alex We're also investors who put
Speaker 2: in their own money into into sports Box because they
Speaker 2: believed that this was that important for the game of
Speaker 2: golf and they wanted to be a part of it.
Speaker 2: So that's one one part of it. But what Bryson specifically,
Speaker 2: Dana Dakust, his coach, has been using sports Box for
Speaker 2: a couple of years now and he recommend One of
Speaker 2: the things that the two of them wanted to solve
Speaker 2: for was Bryson likes to hit his stock draws and
Speaker 2: occasionally he would battle his kind of push baits, which
Speaker 2: he does not like, and they've been trying to figure
Speaker 2: out what in Bryson's swing causes those pushbaits. And so
Speaker 2: when we announced our product integration with Foresight Sports, where
Speaker 2: on Sportsbox you're able to pull the ball data and
Speaker 2: the club data from Foresight devices directly into our app,
Speaker 2: so you can see everything we measure on Sportsbox alongside
Speaker 2: the outcome data. Bryson and Data were like, we need
Speaker 2: to use this to figure this out for Bryson. So
Speaker 2: what we did was we collected hundreds of his golf
Speaker 2: swings the week before the US opened, by the way,
Speaker 2: and we were able to see what in his motion
Speaker 2: correlated highly with a spin axis going positive because that's
Speaker 2: a you know, fade shot. And we used our sports
Speaker 2: science team and our data scigence got to work on
Speaker 2: the data set and figured out that there were three
Speaker 2: things that are really highly correlated, you know, with like
Speaker 2: seventy percent plus correlated with the pushfight shot. And so
Speaker 2: through data, not you know how it looks or not
Speaker 2: you know someone's opinion, we were able to tell Bryson
Speaker 2: this is exactly why when you do this versus this
Speaker 2: you push faded. And he acted on this information at
Speaker 2: Pinehurst the week of the US Open this year and
Speaker 2: we were you know, data and our team, we were
Speaker 2: there with Bryson measuring every swing to see if he
Speaker 2: can hit the ideal ranges on sports box on the range,
Speaker 2: and he got his swing to a place where it
Speaker 2: felt perfect, Like literally it was like, wow, this feels
Speaker 2: like when I hit when I shot fifty eight. This
Speaker 2: is how free my swing felt, and now I can
Speaker 2: do this And he went out and won the US Open.
Speaker 2: So that's how we use it with with Bryson. And
Speaker 2: it was a lot of work, you know, there was
Speaker 2: there a whole bunch of the team who was dedicated
Speaker 2: to pouring through all of his data. But that's that's
Speaker 2: how the game should be played. Like we shouldn't go
Speaker 2: on a search, we should let the data tell us
Speaker 2: what happens when we miss it versus hitt it grades.
Speaker 3: And he used it for a couple of days and
Speaker 3: then went out and won the US Open because of
Speaker 3: the data that you fed him.
Speaker 2: I mean, we would never take crime for Bryceon went
Speaker 2: in the US.
Speaker 3: Of course he had to hit the ball, but yeah,
Speaker 3: he's a science kick. He loves this stuff, right, And
Speaker 3: I know that there's people like I can't pay attention
Speaker 3: to him because I'm lift. Okay, fine, so he's on lift.
Speaker 3: We got to move beyond that if we possibly can, please.
Speaker 3: But anyway, he won, and he was adorable afterwards and
Speaker 3: kind of made me fall in love with them even more.
Speaker 3: But this is the kind of data that anybody can
Speaker 3: take and use, especially if they have a coach exactly,
Speaker 3: But they can do it without a coach, too, right,
Speaker 3: I mean, yes, yes, But.
Speaker 2: What Dana was able to do, I mean, we were
Speaker 2: part of Data's team, you know, just as much as
Speaker 2: we were part of Bryson's team. We were helping Data
Speaker 2: communicate the things that he already wanted Bryson to do.
Speaker 2: But backed with Data, he was able to get through
Speaker 2: to Bryson better than without Data. So like it's what
Speaker 2: we showed Dana. There were some things that he hadn't
Speaker 2: thought about in certain ways, but they were like they
Speaker 2: were just part of what he wanted Bryson to already do.
Speaker 2: It helped him communicate those things and turn it into
Speaker 2: data that like actually made it precise what he wanted
Speaker 2: to wanted Bryson to do. And a coach can also
Speaker 2: turn Okay, I want you to move like this, and
Speaker 2: not that this is the data, but a coach can
Speaker 2: turn that into Okay, try this, feel, try this, drill,
Speaker 2: try this, and like that process of iterating on the
Speaker 2: input that allows the golfer to move in the correct
Speaker 2: way is an incredible part of the process, the important
Speaker 2: part of the process that a coach. Only a coach
Speaker 2: can do. Right. Our data can give you the information,
Speaker 2: create the ideal ranges, but at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: a player or coach needs to decide how they want
Speaker 2: to take that information and turn it into something they
Speaker 2: action on.
Speaker 3: What about other professional golfers who've had success with it,
Speaker 3: that have experienced it and learned from it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean sportsbox is now at a point and
Speaker 2: I can't believe I'm saying this. There are enough like
Speaker 2: there's so many users at various different skills where we're
Speaker 2: not personally tracking like who's using it and who's not
Speaker 2: using it. It's not something that we would go out
Speaker 2: and you know market right, Like we're not gonna go
Speaker 2: out and without the correct rights and we'd be able
Speaker 2: to like market that relationship. But there are a lot
Speaker 2: of plays. If you go to a tour event, whether
Speaker 2: it's live or PG Tour, there are a lot of
Speaker 2: coaches and players that are using this on a regular basis.
Speaker 2: One more one more ambassador of ours Jeff Smith, who
Speaker 2: is one of the smartest people I've ever met. He
Speaker 2: has a large group of tour players on the PG
Speaker 2: Tour who he I mean, he's using sports Box in
Speaker 2: every lesson and he has sports Box built into his
Speaker 2: teaching studio where his players come when they have a swing,
Speaker 2: you know, swing change they need to make. They get
Speaker 2: into this environment where every swing is measured on sports
Speaker 2: Box and they're able to more quickly make the swing
Speaker 2: change because of the immediate feedback they're getting on every swing.
Speaker 2: So there's a webinar that he did recently where he
Speaker 2: talks about his players, Davis Riley and Max Grazerman on
Speaker 2: exactly what they wanted to change and how they did
Speaker 2: it using the data, and it was really fascinating to
Speaker 2: listen to.
Speaker 3: Does the app make suggestions as to what you can
Speaker 3: do to improve your movement and your swing or you
Speaker 3: really need a coach to understand what it's showing you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we do make recommendations. There are you know, top
Speaker 2: twelve most common swing faults that we see in amateur
Speaker 2: golf swings that we filter for, and it creates these
Speaker 2: recommended goals for you. But obviously, you know, there's a
Speaker 2: lot more value that you can get out of it
Speaker 2: if you are able to customize those ranges that work
Speaker 2: better for you as a golfer, and that can come
Speaker 2: from maybe your own understanding if you're a total golf
Speaker 2: geek and you've you've taken enough lessons and you've watched
Speaker 2: enough you know, educational content out there to know what
Speaker 2: those are. But we also provide you know, links to
Speaker 2: connect with one of the sports Box coaches if they
Speaker 2: want to go deeper and really personalize what they can
Speaker 2: get out of sports.
Speaker 3: Box, and you can do that remotely with the coach.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think sports Box is I mean, humbly it
Speaker 2: has been one of the most impactful tool for coaches
Speaker 2: who have a remote coaching service offered because one they're
Speaker 2: not dealing with there's a lot of bad videos out
Speaker 2: there that golfers send, you know, from bad angles or
Speaker 2: shaking whatever, and you know they're having go back and
Speaker 2: forth on hey, can you send me another video, a
Speaker 2: different video? Can you do this? There's a whole process,
Speaker 2: a taint, that's a time suck. We don't process videos
Speaker 2: that are that don't fit our criteria. So when a
Speaker 2: coach gets a student to send a swing, they're only
Speaker 2: looking at good videos. Second, because we have data and
Speaker 2: goals that you can create the student, you're not having
Speaker 2: to go and look at, you know, a bunch of
Speaker 2: swing videos comparing if it looks different from the original video,
Speaker 2: which is a whole time consuming process. If you wanted
Speaker 2: them to turn to ninety degrees, we just show you
Speaker 2: the data, right, is a ninety degree Did they average
Speaker 2: ninety degrees in the last you know, three sessions that
Speaker 2: they've practiced or is it eighty five? Or are they
Speaker 2: trending in the right direction. You can see that immediately
Speaker 2: as soon as you open the student page. And so
Speaker 2: that there's been so much positive feedback from coaches that
Speaker 2: spend a lot of time with remote coaching. They've you know,
Speaker 2: two x three x their monthly revenue from using sports
Speaker 2: Box because of this engagement.
Speaker 3: Wow, And is it the type of thing like a
Speaker 3: couple a couple episodes ago, we talked to Keith Scally
Speaker 3: about his golf Live app where you can have a
Speaker 3: teacher can give video lessons live. Well, you know, with
Speaker 3: a person as opposed to sending the video and then
Speaker 3: waiting to hear back. What does sports box they do?
Speaker 3: Is that something you need to send to the coach
Speaker 3: and then they'll get back to you, or is possibly
Speaker 3: do it live?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't say it would be live. It's just when.
Speaker 2: So let's say we're working together and you sent me
Speaker 2: a goal to work on. Every time I practice on
Speaker 2: sports Box against that goal, it creates a record. So
Speaker 2: you know, let's say I took twenty swings in my
Speaker 2: last practice against this goal. It shows you where every
Speaker 2: one of my swings they landed as relates to my
Speaker 2: goal and an average and so and every time I
Speaker 2: take a sling, you're notified in the app, and so
Speaker 2: you're able to just quickly.
Speaker 3: Check Okay, who is the coach?
Speaker 2: You as the coach, so the coach can quickly check
Speaker 2: that this person practice and you know, and as a coach,
Speaker 2: you also have this comfort of knowing that they are
Speaker 2: getting feedback on every swing. It's part a huge part
Speaker 2: of value of working with a coach is that there
Speaker 2: are a set of eyes that give you immediate feedback
Speaker 2: on every swing. And so this is doing that without
Speaker 2: you logging into a zoom session or whatever, without you
Speaker 2: physically being there to watch every swing. Sports Box is
Speaker 2: providing that lends through which you can give feedback, give
Speaker 2: of the student a pair of eyes to provide that
Speaker 2: feedback on every swing and help them learn in that process.
Speaker 3: So you kind of joked about did you practice right,
Speaker 3: which you know, I can't tell you how many times,
Speaker 3: and I'm sure you've heard it more than me that
Speaker 3: people are like, yeah, I took a couple lessons and
Speaker 3: it's not helping. It's like, did you practice?
Speaker 2: Did you practice?
Speaker 3: Did you? I mean, like are you just like you
Speaker 3: take the lesson and then you two weeks later you
Speaker 3: go play golf and you're like, my lesson didn't help, Well,
Speaker 3: did you do anything in between?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah? And more importantly, did you practice correctly is personally?
Speaker 2: I believe the biggest thing that separates a good golfer
Speaker 2: versus a professional is in how they if they get
Speaker 2: thirty minutes to spend on the range, how they would
Speaker 2: do it. An average golfer would go out and beat
Speaker 2: a bunch of balls and get nothing out of it,
Speaker 2: or they're quote unquote feedback is did the ball go straight?
Speaker 2: Or whatever? That is, like, if did the ball do
Speaker 2: what I wanted it to do? And we all know
Speaker 2: that you might have done that by accident. If you're
Speaker 2: trying to make a swing change, the shot may not
Speaker 2: go where you wanted it to go, but you still
Speaker 2: need to commit to the swing change for you to change.
Speaker 2: And so if your only feedback mechanism is where did
Speaker 2: the ball go? You're not making a swing change. I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: Like you just you're probably treading water because you're always
Speaker 2: going to try to go back to what feels comfortable
Speaker 2: that you know accidentally hit a good shot, you hit
Speaker 2: a good shot from So if you're not practicing with intent,
Speaker 2: with motion motion based feedback, you're likely not going to
Speaker 2: make progress on the things that you learned in your lesson.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I get that. I mean I think about being
Speaker 3: on the range and like, oh, you're just looking at
Speaker 3: the ball flight and how it felt when it you know,
Speaker 3: as you made contact, But you're not analyzing your swing.
Speaker 3: You're looking at the ball flight and what it felt like.
Speaker 3: It's just not enough information to improve.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like I said, if you are trying to
Speaker 2: make a swing change, then you need to have one
Speaker 2: hundred percent of your focus on that during the part
Speaker 2: of your practice session where you are focused on mechanics, right,
Speaker 2: and no matter where the ball goes, you need to
Speaker 2: commit to that swing change and know that the reps
Speaker 2: that you're doing you're doing the correct movement. If you
Speaker 2: don't have feedback loop on whether you're making the correct motion,
Speaker 2: then you're practicing against the wrong thing in a way, right,
Speaker 2: because you're like, if you are making a swing change,
Speaker 2: you're probably less likely to had good shots with that
Speaker 2: new move then you would be with your old move.
Speaker 2: Like your old move, it's comfortable. You could probably be
Speaker 2: athletic enough to make a shot with the old move
Speaker 2: more reliably than with the new move. Does that makes sense?
Speaker 2: So you need you need to commit to working against
Speaker 2: your motion based goals before you get to the outcome
Speaker 2: oriented practice.
Speaker 3: One of the other things I noticed on your website
Speaker 3: that I'm really curious about. What is Sportsbox University.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we have a wealth of knowledge and educational
Speaker 2: material built for the purpose of coaches to learn how
Speaker 2: to use our data. So doctor Phil Cheatham led the
Speaker 2: effort to creating this university program for people to get certified.
Speaker 2: Level one two are available now sports Box Certified to
Speaker 2: be able to more fluently teach with our data.
Speaker 3: If you had not gotten an MBA, would you been
Speaker 3: able to develop as much of not just oh this
Speaker 3: idea for showing video as AI, but expanding it out
Speaker 3: to so many different ways and so many different licensing
Speaker 3: venues opportunities. Did the MBA really help expand your mind
Speaker 3: to fill in and fill in the blanks?
Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, I met my husband during
Speaker 2: my MBA, so I wouldn't trade that for the world.
Speaker 2: But I mean, everything that I have done in my
Speaker 2: crazy life, I feel like has prepared me for what
Speaker 2: I'm doing. I don't think what I could what I'm doing.
Speaker 2: I'm sure I would have figured it out eventually. I
Speaker 2: feel like the things that I've experienced from the playing career,
Speaker 2: you know, going through f centaur, the ups and downs,
Speaker 2: the relationships I've built, the lesson, every lesson I've taken,
Speaker 2: the coaches I know to like, the hours and sitting
Speaker 2: in classrooms, building relationships with the people in my my
Speaker 2: and at Warton who are currently doing amazing things, learning
Speaker 2: from them, the professors I learned from, every little thing
Speaker 2: I think has helped me prepared for what I'm doing now.
Speaker 3: Well, it's an amazing journey and luckily we get to
Speaker 3: take advantage of the results of it. And I'm really impressed.
Speaker 3: I'm really excited to check this thing out to see,
Speaker 3: you know, because i think I'm feeling really good these
Speaker 3: days and I've gotten I'm actually kind of terrified to
Speaker 3: see what it looks like.
Speaker 2: More about what it looks like. Measure it if you're
Speaker 2: feeling good, so you have it documented and you can
Speaker 2: always go back to it. Compare it if you're not
Speaker 2: feeling at great at some point down the road.
Speaker 3: So great point, well, congratulations, I would wish you good luck,
Speaker 3: but you're so far along the way and we'll be
Speaker 3: seeing more and more about this. And I'm sure that
Speaker 3: listeners when they're watching TV, whether it's the golf channel
Speaker 3: or a live event. They're going to go, Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: I know about sports boxing. I heard about it. Golf smarter,
Speaker 3: j Hey, thank you so much and the best of life.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Fred for having me on.
Speaker 3: Well at a really interesting round this week, But it
Speaker 3: wasn't about my game. I played with a gentleman, probably
Speaker 3: in his late forties, maybe early fifties, I guess, But
Speaker 3: as a teenager, he was a passenger in a car
Speaker 3: that lost control, rolled over multiple times, and threw him
Speaker 3: from the car. For the next few weeks. After that,
Speaker 3: he was left in a coma with little hope of survival.
Speaker 3: And yet he did survive, but the doctors weren't sure
Speaker 3: about his quality of life going forward.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 3: During his recovery, he had a stroke where he lost
Speaker 3: the use of the right side of most of his
Speaker 3: body and seriously impacted his speech and left him with
Speaker 3: a limp. But fortitude, attitude, gratitude, and hope are truly
Speaker 3: amazing things, and there he was decades later, walking the
Speaker 3: golf course, pushing his cart and playing golf with only
Speaker 3: his left hand, except on the greens, where he was
Speaker 3: able to use his right hand to stabilize the putter.
Speaker 3: He was able to make solid contact on most of
Speaker 3: his shots and had an impressive touch in his short game.
Speaker 3: But most of all, he was out there playing with
Speaker 3: this amazing attitude and not really caring about his score,
Speaker 3: although he did concede that he's always happy to break
Speaker 3: one hundred. He was truly an inspiration. So just the
Speaker 3: next time you're having a rough day on the golf course,
Speaker 3: remember how lucky you are to be playing at all now.
Speaker 3: Later this week on Golf Smarter Mulligans is part two
Speaker 3: with Jeff Ritter from November of twenty twelve introducing us
Speaker 3: to his make the Turn challenge.
Speaker 5: I'm thinking this is perfect, this couldn't be better. I
Speaker 5: missed my first ten. There's no way I can miss
Speaker 5: and letting give the ball. And that's what the mentally
Speaker 5: tough athletics. They always want the ball. They always see
Speaker 5: the next shot as an opportunity, and they keep on shooting, shooting, shooting,
Speaker 5: and people in golf that are not mentally tough don't
Speaker 5: do that. They're defeated when they get to the course.
Speaker 2: They are defeated.
Speaker 5: If they get three holes in and they started bogie
Speaker 5: double bowie, it's all over. And they don't think that
Speaker 5: way more. We help people in this program understand that
Speaker 5: the whole ball of golf is to be able to
Speaker 5: walk up to your golf ball and see an opportunity
Speaker 5: to do something amazing. The highlight reel is virtually never
Speaker 5: from the t box or the center of the fair
Speaker 5: with the highlight reel is from impossible situations, tough lines,
Speaker 5: no view of the pin, and you got to hook
Speaker 5: it around, go over something. You made a long putt
Speaker 5: to save par, you were down that you weren't out,
Speaker 5: and you came back and you made five verdies to
Speaker 5: finish the round. I mean that's the stuff that highlight
Speaker 5: reels are, right, So instead of hitting the ball somewhere
Speaker 5: that you don't like in saying this sucks or now
Speaker 5: I'm screwed, and why not say.
Speaker 2: This is perfect?
Speaker 5: This couldn't be better, because when I hook this ball
Speaker 5: around the tree in a bounce between those bunkers and
Speaker 5: a cost that they cut, this crowd is going to
Speaker 5: lose their mind. And that's how a really tough athlete. Thanks.
Speaker 3: This was originally episode three hundred and fifty six for
Speaker 3: members only, but was behind our paywall, so it's never
Speaker 3: been shared publicly before, so even for long time listeners,
Speaker 3: chances are this is a brand new interview, so please
Speaker 3: check it out. And I want to thank this week's
Speaker 3: Golf Smarter Ambassador, Ray Cipriano from Fort Worth, Texas and
Speaker 3: as he said, with pride, the home of the late
Speaker 3: great Ben Hogan. Not only did Ray record his episode
Speaker 3: opening on his phone and send it to me, but
Speaker 3: he's the only Golf Smart I think he's the only
Speaker 3: Golf Smarter Ambassador who had to record an opening for
Speaker 3: two different episodes because I screwed up. He was my
Speaker 3: clerical air. Thank you, Ray for your cooperation. I'm glad
Speaker 3: to get you out there and brag about fort Worth now,
Speaker 3: starting this month through the beginning of next year, you
Speaker 3: have multiple ways to become a Golf Smarter Ambassador, as
Speaker 3: Ray did. You can record a show opening and choose
Speaker 3: from one of our three great gifts, or if you'd
Speaker 3: like to get all three gifts at once, then write
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