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Speaker 1: And now what I'm asking for is a piece of ice,

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cold and poorly located that can play a vital role

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in world peace and world protection.

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Speaker 2: It's a very small ask compared to what we have

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given them for many, many decades.

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Speaker 3: It's the Rigorshete Podcast. I'm James Lillix. We have Charles

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see Could Cook and Steven Hayward and we're going to

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talk about Trump term two year one. So let's so

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that's a podcast.

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Speaker 4: So again, I'm not popular with you now because I'm

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defending Donald Trump, but I really believe you can be

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happy that he is there because he has forced us

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in Europe to step up to face the consequences that

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we have to take care more of our own defense.

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I'm absolutely convinced without Donald Trump, we would not have

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taken those decisions, and they are crucial.

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Speaker 3: Welcome everybody. It's the Ricochet Podcast, Episode number seven, one

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hundred and seventy three. You can join us at ricochet

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dot com. Everybody can. You can be part of the

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most stimulating conversation in community on the web. But we'll

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tell you a little bit more about that later. If

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you don't already know, I'm James lonnox In Minneapolis, where

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the temperature has climbed to seven degrees to minus fourteen

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after a certain point. It's just moot. It was just cold,

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That's all there is to it. Some we're up in

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the northern part of the state. They were getting windshills

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of fifty below, which is you know, some folks will

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never lose a toe, But then again, some folks will.

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If you go outside improperly dressed, you're going to suffer

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the loss of some digits. But in warmer places, friendlier places,

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better climbs. We have Charles C. W. Cook in Florida.

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I presume it Stephen Hayward, who the globetrotter that he is,

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is probably ensconced in the utopia of California. Am I correct,

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a gentleman.

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Speaker 2: Except for the utopia of California Park.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I am in California, but it's no utopia anymore.

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Speaker 3: Well, what a week? What a week? What a week? Okay, Greenland,

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that's overdone, settled. Now Cuba, let's get rid of the

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communist government bout twenty twenty six. Wait a minute, what

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about Venezuela. No, no, comed He's out of Cuba. Cuba

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by twenty twenty six, it's baffling, but you know, it's

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it's it's been a year like that. It's been one

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year of this administration, and on Ricochet people were banning

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about the various ways in which it has succeeded or failed,

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as that falls along the usual lines, as you might think.

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The people who believe that he's been a rhino disaster,

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that's he's actually, you know, enforced a whole bunch of

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leftist ideas about government intervention, that he's contravened Congress, that

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he's behaving like a Caesar, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. If you

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look at the Daily Beast today, the Daily Beast says

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that Donald Trump last night went on a late night

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truth social rant following his European humiliation. And what they

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mean by that, of course, is that he was humiliated

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in Europe. I took a look at what was said

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and saw a lot of cold truths that needed to

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be slapped on the table, and Davis was just a

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place for it. So it's hard to know where to

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start when you look at the last year. I guess

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the best thing to do is look at yesterday. What

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do we have yesterday? But let's cast our eyes back

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three hundred and sixty five. Gentlemen, your assessment, if you will,

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on the first year of the second term.

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Speaker 5: Well, as I've been saying for a while, if you're

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on the left, you measure the Trump administration Trump two

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in dog years, right, I mean, because every day he

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does so.

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Speaker 2: Darn many things.

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Speaker 5: They talk about energy and executive in Hamilton's famous phrase.

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And so what I've been taunting my leftist friends is.

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Speaker 2: Cheer up. You only have twelve more years to.

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Speaker 5: Go of the second Trump term, right, because it's gonna

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seem forever.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you can go down a scorecard and do a

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lot of stuff.

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Speaker 5: I think of it in general terms that the disposition

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of this administration has been so much more aggressive, even

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than Trump's first term, which was pretty aggressive itself. And

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there's a lot of swings and missus of course, and

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there's you know, he'll claim that he has cured teenage

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acne and everything else and every other speech, whether the

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facts back it up or not. And that's just his style.

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But look the dabosing everyone thinks that.

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Speaker 2: I say everyone. People keep thinking, oh, this Greenland thing.

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Speaker 5: I was not sure if there's really a deal or

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if it's just him wish casting, but it's another art

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of the deal attempted by Trump, and there's probably something

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to that. I think people are missing the bigger story,

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which is he squashed Davos. I mean, what's Doavos supposed

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to be about. It's supposed to be about climate change

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and Gaza and inequality and anything but Trump And so instead,

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by doing his temper tantrum over Greenland and threatening war

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and all kinds of other ridiculous stuff and tariffs, he

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dominated the whole darn thing. So that my favorite little

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cherry on top of the whole story, James, is that

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al Gore was there. I don't know why I talk

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about it has been, but his has been status is

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ratified by the fact that he had some little meeting

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he called to talk about climate change, and I think

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something like twenty people showed up, So you know, you know,

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Trump absolutely took over the thing and killed it, which

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in it so much deserves killing, doesn't it.

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Speaker 6: Girls Ah, then, Steve, I think we disagree on this.

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I think if the question is has Trump done a

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lot of good things in the last year, the answer

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is obviously yes.

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Speaker 7: Reneed the tax cuts.

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Speaker 6: Closed the border, got rid of a lot of racist

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policies that the federal government had been executing for decades.

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I don't know to what extent it's attributable to Trump.

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I'm not saying it's not. I just don't know. But

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crime is apparently at its lowest rate in the United

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States since nineteen hundred, especially the murder rate.

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Speaker 7: So there is a lot to like, there's a lot

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to dislike.

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Speaker 6: Tariffs I think are illegal and counterproductive. But I don't

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think the last week has been good. In fact, I

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think he has embarrassed himself in the country and got

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very little for it. I'm open to the idea that

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we would buy or take more control of not via

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an invasion Greenland, but he has emboldened.

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Speaker 7: The left in Europe.

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Speaker 6: He's upset some of our closest allies with unnecessary comments.

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He said, for example, that the British didn't fight on

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the front lines in Afghanistan. When they did. Four hundred

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and eighty seven of them died in Afghanistan on the

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front lines. Some of them were my friends, as it happens.

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So I think the last week has been the bad

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side of Trump. I think it's been the liability that

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isn't to say it wipes out all of the good.

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I think he has had a relatively successful first year,

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but I don't like how he behaved in Davos.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's take a look at that then a little

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bit more. When it comes to the whole Greenland situation,

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if I understand this, a ridiculous assertion was made at

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the beginning, backed up with the threat of extraordinary action,

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and then at the end of it a deal was

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struck that made the position struck in the end look moderate.

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Have we seen this before from this fellow. I think

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we have, And it's just amazing to me that everybody

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nobody gets it yet that that's how it always goes.

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It starts we're going to have a nine tariff on China,

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and everybody freaks out in the market's crash, and then

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you end up with a you know, a four percent

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tariff on spatulis from the plastic spatula factory. I mean,

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we've seen this before. So if the end result is

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actually getting something, is getting more mineral rights, more security,

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more in this and that out of Greenland. Okay, fine,

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we've had interested in Greenland for a long time. You're right,

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of course about the optics and You're right about the

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tone of voice and the rest of it. But I

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think what a lot of people are liking is the

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fact that we don't have the same old consensus, technocratic

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go along cow towing at DeVos that you might have

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gotten from definitely from a Democrat and probably from you know,

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a Rhino wants to fit into the the ethos of Davos,

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if you will, and then hard truths need to be

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told to them, just simply to lay Doun a marker.

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Nobody has said yet to them. Well, maybe Trump has,

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and others have noted it on Twitter that there are

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problems facing Europe that are going to lead to its

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inevitable and total decline. And if that emboldens leftists, that

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just shows that they have a culture that is unable

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to save itself and pull itself out of the morass

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in which it is you want to disagree with.

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Speaker 6: It, I just don't recognize that as a description of

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what has happened this week. I have historically been sympathetic

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to Trump's approach, which is to throw his weight around

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and do things differently than others. I also am sympathetic,

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and I've written as much to his lecturing Europe alongside

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j D. Vance on questions such as freedom of speech,

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how much they contribute to their own defense, they're hurtling

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towards socialism and so forth. But this isn't that they

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got nothing. They got nothing of any consequence, and they

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have cost American interests for it. I think this is

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a bad deal. This is not me saying I don't

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like mean tweets. It's not some form of Trump derangement syndrome.

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I think that the cost of Trump's behavior in the

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last week massively outweighs the benefits. The temper tantrum that

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he had a few months ago over Canada, where inexplicably

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he started saying that Canada had to be absorbed into

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the United States meant that we now have for the

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next four or five years a Canadian government that is

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hostile to American interest rather than one that is friendly

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toward American interest.

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Speaker 7: That was not a good deal.

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Speaker 6: Very often with Trump, it is a good deal, and

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I don't care about the niceties.

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Speaker 7: I want the good deal. But there is no good deal.

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We didn't get anything for this.

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Speaker 6: We now have a whole bunch of pissed off people

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and countries that are historically sympathetic toward US, and the

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parties in countries such as Denmark and Scandinavia more generally

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have been emboldened not on the right where we can

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make better deals with him in the future, but on

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the left. And I don't think we got much for that.

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So I think this was stupid. I don't think this

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was normal chump deal making. I think it was stupid,

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and I think it's an example of the downside of

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him rather than of his upside.

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Speaker 2: Steve, Yeah, you know, I tend to. I mean, I

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agree with a lot of what Charlie says.

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Speaker 5: And by the way, James, when you say Europe needs

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to have some truth told of them here, I am

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with Charlie.

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Speaker 2: They do need to be true.

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Speaker 5: Some of the things he's saying, many of them were,

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and some of them weren't, as Charlie has mentioned rightly.

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Speaker 2: Look, here's how I look at it differently.

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Speaker 5: In part because I'm right now, literally this weekend, watching

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the spot market for natural gas electricity price, which you're

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going to be very vuluable because of the weather system,

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and I think of Trump in the same way. If

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you think of Trump as the volatility measured in the

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spot market for Trump's latest eruption.

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Speaker 2: This set a new high, There's no doubt about that,

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but I.

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Speaker 5: Do think it tends to regress to the mean. Now

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the mean is mean tweets. Okay, I did be to

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make that pun, But I think this will be forgotten,

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as so many Trump things are. I mean, is anybody

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still talking about his really ridiculous true social about Rob

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Reiner from six eight weeks ago?

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Speaker 2: No, No, that's sort of forgotten now.

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Speaker 5: And this is more important than that, of course, But

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I do think this will blow over. I think that

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the liberal governments in Europe that get overconferenent from this

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are they may enjoy a temporary spike in popularity.

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Speaker 2: And one of the criticisms.

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Speaker 5: That people make, and I think Charlie hint of this,

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is that some of the populist parties that like Trump

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and that Trump likes are being set back by this

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last week. And I think that's true in the short run,

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but I think that won't be true in the long run.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know. Maybe I'm optimistic about it.

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Speaker 5: I just think that Trump is generally right when he's

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setting the Europeans. The Canadians have put aside for some

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reasons Charlie mentions, but I think it's good putting the

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Europeans on their back foot. And Trump's basic understanding is

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always be on offense, always be setting the agenda.

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Speaker 2: Now, the difficulty with that is, to use the.

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Speaker 5: Great analogy of Churchill about the offensives in World War One,

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it's like throwing a bucket of water on the floor,

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and to keep it going you have to throw more

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and more buckets. And so there's one problem is Trump

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faces the problem of diminishing returns and we are only

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one year into it, and where's it going to be

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a year from now? I do think that does call

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for more caution and sort of measured approach on his part.

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Speaker 3: And good luck with that, Charles. When we talk about

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setting back the right wing elements in Europe, are we

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talking about the sort of moderate center consensus, there's that

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word again, technocratic, there's that word again, institution right in Europe?

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Or are we talking about the AFP, Are we talking

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about Lapan? Are we talking about the organizations that get

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shut out because they are outside of the guardrails of

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proper European thought?

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Speaker 7: I mean, who.

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Speaker 3: Exactly in the right is losing influence here? When the

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institutions around them are seemingly devoted to keep them from

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having any influence at all in the government.

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Speaker 6: I think we're talking about both. Also, we need europerson

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ally and we need to cajole Europe into being a

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better ally, and I don't think we did that. If

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you use Canada as the example.

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Speaker 7: I am much.

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Speaker 6: More conservative than Pierre Polief, but he was a good

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antidote to the Canadian government that has run that country

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for nearly a decade. He is far preferable to Mark Karney,

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who's a bloodless type. He's obviously far preferable to feed

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Orchestro's so I mean Trudeau, and the same is true

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in Europe. And if that message is going to be

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heard in Europe, where it will go down very hard,

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then it's going to have to be delivered in a

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way that doesn't put up the backs of the public

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and make them do what the Canadians did and say,

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despite all of the things we're angry about, including immigration,

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free speech and so forth, we're just going to pick

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the bloodless left. I watched this closely in England, where

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anti Americanism is an interesting phenomenon that ebbs and flows.

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Trump made it worse there this week, and if there

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was something that he had got from that, I think

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that would be worth it, but there wasn't. Now I

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will say where I do agree with Steve, I don't

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want to give off the wrong and prayer.

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Speaker 7: I don't think this is the end of the world.

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Speaker 6: I've read some articles in the European newspapers this week

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that are just profoundly ridiculous. They say, this is the

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end of NATO, this is the end of the Transatlantic Alliance,

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this is the end of the special relationship with Britain.

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The stock market will ever recover, bonds are going to

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skyrocket forever. The housing market in the United States as

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a result, will stay unobtainable. The Europeans are going to

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exit American treasuries. The Americans are going to retaliate by

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kicking the Europeans out of the cloud. That's all nonsense.

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This is already blown over in the most part. I'm

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just saying that where Trump is at his best is

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where he does weird and unusual things that other politicians

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don't and then get stuff for it. The border is

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a perfect example of this. Trump says some things on

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the border and immigration that make me feel uncomfortable.

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Speaker 7: But look at what he's done. He shut that thing down.

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Speaker 6: Now we have net outflows of migration for the first

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time in a long time, and illegal immigrants of being

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deported on math.

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Speaker 7: That's good, that's great. Good for him.

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Speaker 6: I don't care about the the ugliness of it.

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Speaker 7: But here he didn't get anything.

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Speaker 5: Well, there is one thing, Charles, that you ought to

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be celebrating that's not connected to this last week except

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only the coincidence of the calendar, and that is that

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Trump is now imposing I guess he's pulled the trigger

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on imposing these five hundred percent tariffs on countries that

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trade and illicit Russian goods and maybe other right, right, great?

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That of course, that was a congressionally past statute, which

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again conforms to the Charlie Cook principle that Congress ought

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to be involved in teriffs, which I agree with. And uh,

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I mean, it's early yet, but I've seen some news

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reports that the Chinese banks in India and others are saying, yeah,

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I guess we're going to have to go along with this,

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and so suddenly they're really finally turning the serious economic

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screws on Russia. Everyone's thought that you know, Trump is

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soft on Russia and whatever, but this is a serious

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measure and maybe it helps. I don't know if the

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last week helps or hurts the European cooperation in that,

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although I note another news item out this morning is

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the French Navy has intercepted and boarded one of the

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Russian Black Fleet oil tankers. So it's not just us

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in the Caribbean, it's some of the Europeans are getting

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in on the action too.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I saw a headline this morning that said the

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attempt to build a united EU front against Trump hampered

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by Franco German tensions, and I thought that just feels

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so nineteenth century to see Franco German tensions in the

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news again. I just it pleased me. No, the tariffs

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and the Chinese reaction to it, and exactly how much

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of their wonderful unlimited relationship military wise they're going to

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do puts Russia in another spot. Of course, we've been

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all waiting for three years for the imminent collapse of

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the Russian economy. It's one of those things that very

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very strangely refuses to lie down and die. But it

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might be actually happening now. But I'm not going to

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say that because nothing ever happens or might it. We

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can get to Ukraine in a secondary But I want

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to circle back just for one thing and what Charlie said,

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And he can, of course again slap me with a

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wet mackerel if he's first. When when a population is insulted,

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as the Canadians or some Europeans were, and I understand that,

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I get that, and I'm you know, I'm a northa

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Kotein for Effan's sakes, I'm a Minnesotan. I'm a practically

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Canadian and temperament when it comes to go to getting

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along and being nice, I don't like it. I don't

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like smash Mault politics. That's just not my thing. But

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if you, if they do feel insulted, the notion that

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will all show you I'm going to vote against my

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own interests and the interests of my country just a

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just a show where I am about this, Well, then

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let them live with the consequences. And I'm not prettying.

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I mean that fine. If you're going to have a

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petulant fit about a petulant fit and elect in the

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worst government you can that won't do anything about your problems,

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that's on you, that's not on Trump.

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Speaker 6: Except my interest is not in them, it's in us.

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My objection here is that it hurts American interest. I

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don't care if silly countries want to elect silly people

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who do things that are against their interests. I care

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about the United States, and my point is that we

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hurt ourselves in Canada. I have no objection to the Canadians.

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I like the Canadians. I think they are a good

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ally and a good and neighbor to have given the alternatives.

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But if they want to do silly things in Canada,

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that's their look at.

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Speaker 7: But we would have been better.

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Speaker 6: Off with five years of Pierre Polief than we will

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be with Mark Carney on the world stage domestically as well,

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and I think the same is true in Europe.

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Speaker 7: So I agree with you.

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Speaker 6: Of course it's ridiculous, but that is what seems to happen,

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and I don't think it helps America, which is my concern.

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Speaker 3: I agreed, as it is questionable what Beer could have done.

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It would have been great if he'd, you know, all

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of a sudden, showed up like a frozen Argentinian and

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started doing the things that needed to be done.

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Speaker 6: I probably wouldn't have started overtures to China, for one thing,

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And he wouldn't have made anti American speeches in Europe,

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and he wouldn't have called for a new world order

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that excludes the United States. So I do think it matters.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, sometimes I just feel like the

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Canada in your in my head is just already gone,

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you know, with with with the mounties and the square

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jaw and the hats and the frozen wilderness and the

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beautiful European accented architecture built in the middle of nowhere

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by hardy people. Somehow, I just feel as if that

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national temperament is as gone as the Australians. The Australians,

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for Heaven's safety, you'd like to think of, you know,

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your Paul Hogan type A knife A knife.

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Speaker 7: See you've played knife before.

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Speaker 3: Right, pretty I have grilling and the barbie. You Sometimes

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you listen to their correspondence, ask questions of the American

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tennis players and say, how do you feel about representing

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that flag, that horrible flag of oppression, death, Nazism, fascism

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and the rest of it, and you realize, yes, really

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has gone too well anyway, So let's go to Ukraine.

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It's still going on. We were told that he was

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going to get a piece seel really quickly. I don't

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think you should have said that because or whatever he

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said about it. But here we are, and on go

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the negotiations, on goes, the war, on goes, the attacks

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on the oil facilities, and then none of that for

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a while, and then a barbon billy in Kiev goes.

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It's incessant, it's interminable, it's horrible, it's deadly, it's massive.

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It can't go on forever. But yet it seems that

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it will if the tariffs do indeed cut off the

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spigott and if indeed there is a Russian contraction of

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the economy. And I mean, right now, they just raised

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their vat, they just raised more attacks in the middle class.

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You know their feels. At some point, don't they have

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to correct and come to the table. You'd think all

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the Russian dead end, all the Russian dead enders right

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now we're laughing at that.

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Speaker 5: Well, the dead enders. I mean, I guess there's a

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lot to rulers and regimes like Putins, which is you

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have to go on to the bitterer.

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Speaker 2: End, or you lose everything.

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Speaker 5: I've never been quite sure if that was true, but

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it certainly seemed to be true of you know, the

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Nazis in World War two and so forth. And I

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guess that logic is right because look the deal. I

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think the outline of deal is in.

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Speaker 2: Front of us.

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Speaker 5: Russia gets to keep most of the territory they've conquered.

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They want some more concessions, which maybe you're worth doing

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just to end it along with apparently you know, we're

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part of tendedly at least a security guarantee, and you

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know it's we gave them a security guarantee once before,

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and look how that worked out for them. So you know,

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if I'm the Ukrainians, I'm like, well, if we have

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to swallow that bitter medicine, we might be willing to.

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Speaker 2: But that deal is out there.

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Speaker 5: I think maybe there's something we don't know, but I

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think it's the stubbornness of Putin. I think he knows

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he can't win, but he's afraid of a negotiated deal might.

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Speaker 2: Be entered in the loss. Call him in Russian politics.

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Speaker 3: I think the negotiat a deal at this point, if

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they got to keep what they have, would be trouted.

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It would be touted as a win, the absorption of

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the portion of a little Russia back into a mother

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Russia objective, and who is going to say otherwise. Everybody's

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going to get back to business. Everybody's going to be

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happy when all of a sudden they get absorbed back

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in the West because the war is over and the

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rest everybody's going to make money. The oligarchs will be happy.

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People will stop falling out of windows, you know, or

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dropping their tea with a sudden stricken look in their face,

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and you know, and Putin goes on the idea that

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if he somehow stopped now didn't control the whole country,

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kept the dambas, and everyone around him is going to

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say that's that's the regime is weak. Now we strike

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and and he's deposed. I don't think that would happen.

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I think he declared victory, go home and continue to

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roll around until he dies in bed.

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Speaker 5: More turns his attention to the old Baltic states. I mean,

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that's what you keep hearing about as a possibility. You know,

463
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what's the old Churchill line that Russia is the riddle

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wrapped in inside a mystery, inside of an enigma.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, my go to.

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Speaker 5: Person on these matters is Gary Salt Morrison at Northwestern University.

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He's maybe the finest professor of Russian literature in America.

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Speaker 2: I know him a little bit. He's written some great.

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Speaker 5: Articles where he says, look, Russian imperialism is part of

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their sort of cultural and national DNA going back centuries.

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It wasn't just a Soviet thing or a Communist thing.

473
00:24:26,039 --> 00:24:28,440
And so he thinks what's going on is a regression

474
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,720
to the mean there, which is, you know, they do

475
00:24:31,799 --> 00:24:34,039
have these ambitions of empire they've always had.

476
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 2: I was always struck when.

477
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,799
Speaker 5: I visited the Hermitage in Saint Petersburg that what Catherine

478
00:24:38,799 --> 00:24:40,359
the Great and all the others they collected, all this

479
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:45,319
wonderful Western European art, and I went through room after

480
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,480
room of that giant place, and where's the Russian art?

481
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,480
That there is an inferiority complex I think the Russians

482
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,279
have always had. And so if you know, if they're

483
00:24:54,319 --> 00:24:56,240
not part they were never part of the great overseas

484
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,440
empire game of the Europeans in the nineteenth century and whatnot.

485
00:25:00,079 --> 00:25:02,799
So I don't know if all those things are right,

486
00:25:02,839 --> 00:25:05,279
but I'm going to follow Professor Morrison and thinking that

487
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,880
this is what they're like, and we have to recognize

488
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,559
the enemy of it and not think they can be

489
00:25:09,599 --> 00:25:11,279
bought off by just by commerce alone.

490
00:25:11,319 --> 00:25:13,599
Speaker 3: So they may have an inferiority complex, because except for

491
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,559
certain areas of literature and music, they're absolutely mediocre.

492
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 6: Any which, Aska says a funny meme that I saw,

493
00:25:20,759 --> 00:25:24,039
and it says literature in different countries, and in the

494
00:25:24,039 --> 00:25:28,319
first pane all as a Frenchman, and underneath it says

495
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,240
I will die for love. And then in the second

496
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,039
one there's an American, and the American says I will

497
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,960
die for liberty, and then the Russian one it just

498
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:38,200
says I will die.

499
00:25:41,079 --> 00:25:45,599
Speaker 3: Right exactly, exactly precisely. Well, Charles, do you agree with

500
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,400
my assessment about the business as usual getting on to it?

501
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,079
If they just take what they've already got and declare

502
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:52,960
victory and go home.

503
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 7: Unfortunately, I.

504
00:25:56,799 --> 00:26:00,839
Speaker 6: Resent that that is the most likely and at this

505
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,279
stage perhaps the best outcome, given the number of people

506
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:04,960
who are.

507
00:26:05,279 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 7: Dying every day.

508
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,799
Speaker 6: Still somehow it's almost three years since this started. Just

509
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:15,119
reminds you that whenever anyone says it'll be over by Christmas,

510
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,880
you should slap them with a wet mackerel, because it

511
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,119
never is. This has been a war of attrition in

512
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:21,759
the way.

513
00:26:21,599 --> 00:26:23,559
Speaker 7: The First World War was.

514
00:26:23,599 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 6: But I do agree with you that that's the outcome

515
00:26:25,799 --> 00:26:27,720
and that there will be a lot of people on

516
00:26:27,759 --> 00:26:30,519
both sides who will.

517
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 7: Be happy with it. But it isn't good.

518
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 6: I think we should be able to be grown ups

519
00:26:34,759 --> 00:26:37,319
and say that's what's going to happen without having to

520
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,400
convince ourselves that it is good.

521
00:26:40,799 --> 00:26:44,799
Speaker 3: We've also learned about the new age of warfare. Drones

522
00:26:44,839 --> 00:26:47,119
have made a difference in this war like I can't

523
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,400
imagine anywhere else in my lifetime, a new invention, a

524
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,640
new rapid development. War is great for teching. You know,

525
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,279
war is the health of the state, but it's also

526
00:26:55,319 --> 00:26:58,440
pretty marvelous for R and D and a lot of

527
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,079
assumptions you would like to think in the Pentagon have

528
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,759
been upended by seeing what we have seen there. And

529
00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:06,680
I think, who did we have on? Was it McMasters

530
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,759
we had on? We were talking about whether or not

531
00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:12,720
the United States it is intellectually adapting to this, because

532
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,079
all of a sudden, you think we've got these great,

533
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,799
incredible aircraft carriers and these battle groups and the rest

534
00:27:17,839 --> 00:27:19,880
of it, and oh, we just lost one because of

535
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,240
because two million Chinese drones just appeared over the horizon,

536
00:27:24,519 --> 00:27:26,880
you know, and dropped on them, and he just couldn't

537
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,839
take them out. Worry about that. I worry about us

538
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,279
not getting the right lessons. But yes, so you say

539
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,920
they'll then turn their attention to the Balkans. Have they

540
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,839
learned anything? Do you think has the Russian leadership or

541
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,160
Putin learned anything from the last three years?

542
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,279
Speaker 5: You know, I draw a blank. I can't answer that question.

543
00:27:51,319 --> 00:27:54,079
I have no idea what lessons they may be thinking

544
00:27:54,079 --> 00:27:54,680
they're learning.

545
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,319
Speaker 6: I was going to ask you that Tim was slightly

546
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,759
differently phrased, which is, do you think regrets having gone in?

547
00:28:01,839 --> 00:28:04,200
Which is a separate question from whether he can back off.

548
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 3: I think he would regret it. If it meant that

549
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,359
he is deposed and dies in cold room, then I

550
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,680
think he would, as long as he maintains his personal

551
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:19,799
level of comfort and authority. I don't think that he does, really.

552
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:21,759
Speaker 7: I mean, suggests he's not a good person.

553
00:28:22,519 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 3: I don't think he is. Right. Yeah, well, I looked

554
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,079
into his soul and I didn't see him as being

555
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:35,880
particularly good either all right, well that's that, and we

556
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:41,200
would like to think that the presence of Russian activity

557
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,480
the Baltics would concentrate the mind wonderfully and all of

558
00:28:43,519 --> 00:28:45,279
a sudden the United States will seem like an awful

559
00:28:45,359 --> 00:28:50,240
great guy to have around two. So we hope now.

560
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,480
Ross Dufatt, I think over at the Times was arguing

561
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,839
something that again we were talking about on Ricochet ricochet

562
00:28:55,839 --> 00:28:59,160
dot com. Go there Sina talking about how Reagan's second

563
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,960
term has quote ended the conservative era and he's talking

564
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,160
about a post Trump GOP. And I was thinking about

565
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:07,799
that the other day when somebody in the comments was

566
00:29:07,799 --> 00:29:12,160
talking about that Trump is a rhino and that you know,

567
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,160
but unlike other previous rhinos like Mett Romney and John

568
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:17,599
McCain and the rest of it. And I thought, those

569
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,839
turn that term doesn't mean anything anymore. We It pains

570
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,599
me as a an old Reagan eighties kind of guy.

571
00:29:24,759 --> 00:29:29,279
But that's that's gone, that's that's that's dead. I remember

572
00:29:29,279 --> 00:29:31,440
before the Trump election. I think it was an American

573
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,519
It was one of those interest American interests. It was

574
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,480
where the flight ninety three piece ran that somebody was saying, basically, well,

575
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,599
we're going to have a Caesar. We're going to have

576
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,119
a Caesar, so it might as well be our Caesar.

577
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,319
And there's a lot of that thought here. We're going

578
00:29:47,359 --> 00:29:50,000
to use the instruments of the state to accomplish the

579
00:29:50,039 --> 00:29:52,240
good things because they need to be done and they're

580
00:29:52,279 --> 00:29:54,200
not being done by other means, and if we don't

581
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,240
do them, then the country and the Republic is gone.

582
00:29:56,759 --> 00:29:58,839
I'm not sure I agree with that, but I understand

583
00:29:58,839 --> 00:30:01,359
the appeal, and I understand argument, or am I wrong

584
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,839
think wrote The new Nationalist era and again I'm a

585
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,839
nationalist is still defined primarily negatively in terms of the

586
00:30:09,839 --> 00:30:12,559
things that probably won't return to Republican politics anytime soon.

587
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,480
The nation building efforts of George W. Bush. Yeah, Okay,

588
00:30:15,599 --> 00:30:18,559
done with that. The immigration amnesty of the Reagan era, Yeah,

589
00:30:18,599 --> 00:30:21,400
done with that. The sweeping changes to entitlements pushed by

590
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,119
Paul Ryan, the button up moralism Pence. In terms of

591
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,519
a positive agenda, douthor rights, there are a lot of

592
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,039
very different ways that the Republican Party of twenty twenty

593
00:30:30,039 --> 00:30:32,640
eight or twenty thirty two could be nationalist, and many

594
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,680
the fiercest battles inside the Trump Coalition, especially the Great

595
00:30:35,759 --> 00:30:40,119
influencer war that broke out after Charlie Kirk's assassination recommend

596
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,200
fundamental divisions over what exactly a nationalist right should want.

597
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,039
So I'll ask you, guys, Charles, what should a nationalist right,

598
00:30:49,119 --> 00:30:53,440
which sounds terrifying to some people, what should they want?

599
00:30:55,079 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 6: This is very hard to answer because I think they

600
00:30:58,160 --> 00:30:59,240
should want what I want.

601
00:31:00,119 --> 00:31:02,759
Speaker 7: Yes, and I'll start here. I don't think that we

602
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:03,559
have a caesar.

603
00:31:04,599 --> 00:31:07,359
Speaker 6: I know others have argued otherwise, I don't think we

604
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,880
have a caesar. I stort't think for the record that

605
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:16,000
Trump has done anything in his excesses that comes close

606
00:31:16,079 --> 00:31:18,799
to Joe Biden trying to spend half a trillion dollars

607
00:31:18,839 --> 00:31:19,680
without Congress.

608
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 3: That's not to tweeting a constitutional amendment.

609
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,359
Speaker 6: Yes, now, that's not to defend Trump. I've been critical

610
00:31:25,359 --> 00:31:27,880
when I think he's wrong, and I think he is

611
00:31:28,559 --> 00:31:31,160
wrong quite often, and I think in general the balance

612
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,720
between the executive and Congress is off, and that Trump

613
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,720
exemplifies that as much as anyone else. But I don't

614
00:31:37,759 --> 00:31:39,519
think we have a caesar, and if we do, then

615
00:31:39,559 --> 00:31:43,000
we had one last time around as well. I don't

616
00:31:43,039 --> 00:31:50,039
agree with doubtat entirely. I think a couple things. One

617
00:31:50,079 --> 00:31:55,559
is that trump Ism is hard to imagine. Absent Trump,

618
00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:03,880
he can change opinion on the right with one tweet,

619
00:32:05,119 --> 00:32:07,400
But then if he changes his mind back, so do

620
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,440
the people who had their minds changed. So I need

621
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,960
to see evidence of a profound shift in thinking that

622
00:32:16,319 --> 00:32:20,839
is divorced from Trump before I believe that conservatism, which

623
00:32:20,839 --> 00:32:22,519
I think is a natural instinct in.

624
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:24,759
Speaker 7: Polities, is dead.

625
00:32:25,119 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 6: The second thing I would say is that there has

626
00:32:28,039 --> 00:32:33,000
always been a balance on the right between the ideas

627
00:32:33,039 --> 00:32:38,880
that were perhaps crystallized by Ronald Reagan and the ideas

628
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:43,079
that doubt that thinks have taken over. Pap Buchanan challenged

629
00:32:43,079 --> 00:32:48,640
George H. W. Bush for the presidency, probably cost him

630
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,480
a second term. The conservatism of many in the twenties

631
00:32:52,599 --> 00:32:57,039
and the fifties at Taft, for example, Senator Taft debt

632
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,480
is were different on tariffs and foreign pope. There has

633
00:33:01,519 --> 00:33:05,319
always been this debate on the right, and I don't

634
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:10,759
think that it is currently a sign that one side

635
00:33:10,759 --> 00:33:14,920
has lost forever that another side is ascendant.

636
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 7: So I think sometimes there is this.

637
00:33:19,079 --> 00:33:22,599
Speaker 6: Binary conception of conservatism where there's Reaganism and I'm a

638
00:33:22,599 --> 00:33:25,960
reaganide and then there is everything else, and if everything

639
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,519
else gets to take the floor for a while, then

640
00:33:28,599 --> 00:33:32,720
the Reaganism must be debt. One caveat before I shut up.

641
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,960
There obviously have been a couple of genuine shifts. One,

642
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,680
as you say, an end to foreign adventurism that incidentally

643
00:33:41,759 --> 00:33:45,240
was a Bush era approach, not a Reagan era approach.

644
00:33:45,279 --> 00:33:48,720
Reagan was not a foreign adventurist. And there's been a

645
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,480
shift on immigration, which I think is salutary because the

646
00:33:51,519 --> 00:33:58,519
Bush era Republican Party was way out of kilter with

647
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,359
the base. It was the biggest problem that George W.

648
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,720
Bush had he over and over again, and then the

649
00:34:06,759 --> 00:34:11,480
Republicans in Congress in twenty ten, twelve fourteen echoed this,

650
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,639
tried to push an immigration policy that Republican voters absolutely hated.

651
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,039
But I'm not convinced outside of that that we have

652
00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:23,119
yet seen this big shift. And I'd recommend Rome Entrepreneur's

653
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:26,679
piece in the Washington Post that responds to Rostathat on

654
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:27,159
this point.

655
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

656
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 5: So I'm I'm I was actually almost done with a

657
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,440
long article for our friends at the Civitas Institute on

658
00:34:34,519 --> 00:34:38,239
what I'm calling the different phases of the New Right.

659
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,400
I'm so old James like you that I can remember

660
00:34:41,039 --> 00:34:43,760
several iterations of the New Right being announced by the

661
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:45,840
media and by various leaders in the world, and by

662
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,159
my calculation, we are today living in the era of

663
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,639
New Right four point five. I won't go through all

664
00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:53,840
the different ones why I gave him those numbers or

665
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:58,760
started sounding like a Ricochet rebranding's that's Charles's department, but Ricche.

666
00:34:59,199 --> 00:35:04,840
But New Right four point five is Trump's nationalism with

667
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,840
all the changes that have already been mentioned, and hostility

668
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,119
to trade and certain other u turns of what was

669
00:35:10,519 --> 00:35:15,320
traditionally conservative consensus. I think, except for Charles's right to

670
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,360
point back to the whole Taft era, which is when

671
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,639
all the new rights started showing up after World War Two.

672
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:21,119
Speaker 2: And the point.

673
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 5: Five is is whether the so called young disaffected gropers

674
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,599
as they're called, or groperism, if it's actually a thing,

675
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,840
is really something to be reckoned with endurable or is

676
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,239
it just a generational revolt like the new left against

677
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,760
established liberalism in the nineteen sixties that remains to be seen.

678
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: Leave that aside for now.

679
00:35:42,639 --> 00:35:46,599
Speaker 5: So Ross's peace, I thought started off strong saying, you know,

680
00:35:46,639 --> 00:35:49,440
trump Ism is really trump and he's holding together with

681
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,119
the force of his personality a lot of discordant elements

682
00:35:52,599 --> 00:35:54,480
and they won't be sorted out until he's gone. I

683
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:59,440
think that's absolutely right. But then you can almost hear

684
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,519
the air going out of the balloon of the piece

685
00:36:01,599 --> 00:36:03,639
the further along you got, because then he starts saying, well,

686
00:36:03,679 --> 00:36:04,840
it could be this, it could be that.

687
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,599
Speaker 2: I'd kind of like something. How did he put it?

688
00:36:07,679 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 5: He said, I'd like, uh, you know, national solidarity and

689
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:16,159
technological dynamism and economics, you know, a multi racial, religiously

690
00:36:16,159 --> 00:36:18,360
informed idea of what it means to be an American

691
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:19,199
and so forth.

692
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 3: Uh.

693
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,519
Speaker 2: And that's all fine. I guess it's too general for

694
00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:23,239
my taste.

695
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 5: There are two things missing right now, I think from

696
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,480
the people speculating about what New Right five point zero

697
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,880
will be. They'll sound familiar to you and me, James,

698
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,840
but missing in Rossi's peaks. One is individual liberty. You know,

699
00:36:37,159 --> 00:36:41,559
the old idea of your freedom, and it's dropped out

700
00:36:41,599 --> 00:36:44,920
of the trumpest vocabulary, in the nationalist vocabulary. And in fact,

701
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,039
you see some people like Pat Denine, who he had

702
00:36:47,079 --> 00:36:48,559
on the show here a couple of years ago, is

703
00:36:48,599 --> 00:36:52,079
actually hostile to the classical liberal tradition. I'm still an

704
00:36:52,159 --> 00:36:56,119
unreconstructed follower of Hayek and the classical liberal tradition and

705
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,679
think we're gonna need it again, perhaps soon. And then

706
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,000
the other thing that's related to that is free markets.

707
00:37:02,079 --> 00:37:05,519
Speaker 3: Pause right there, Pause right there, because it is possible

708
00:37:05,599 --> 00:37:08,079
that in an era of identity politics, the idea of

709
00:37:08,159 --> 00:37:10,920
focusing on the individual seems like a waste of time

710
00:37:11,039 --> 00:37:14,519
and a wasted effort, because what matters is group solidarity.

711
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,519
That's what I hate about this era. It's what I

712
00:37:16,599 --> 00:37:19,679
really hate about this era. And it's a natural outgrowth

713
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:21,679
of everything that came out of the sixties and seventies.

714
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,199
But if we're going to group together people by if

715
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,199
people say, well, okay, if I'm going to be as

716
00:37:26,199 --> 00:37:31,639
an individual seen as being deficient morally, philosophically, spiritually, historically,

717
00:37:31,639 --> 00:37:33,920
and all these things because of some of the attributes

718
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,920
that I cannot change, then I can either, you know,

719
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,960
accept your definition, or I can get with the rest

720
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,000
of the prison gang that's on my side and form

721
00:37:43,039 --> 00:37:45,199
a block to oppose you. And so that's why it's

722
00:37:45,199 --> 00:37:47,159
going to be difficult I too. I mean, one of

723
00:37:47,199 --> 00:37:50,199
my favorite books is clockworkornge because it's about the individual

724
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,280
versus the state. That is the fundamental building block of

725
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,599
a free society as individual liberty. So I agree, but

726
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:02,280
unfortunately we've been moved into blocks for the spoils. Anyway.

727
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,039
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I'll just add a code of to what

728
00:38:06,079 --> 00:38:08,840
you just said, which is it's entirely understandable, and I

729
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,599
think there's some extent legitimate for white males who have

730
00:38:12,679 --> 00:38:15,039
been on the brunt of you know, cultural and legal

731
00:38:15,039 --> 00:38:17,920
discrimination for quite a while now to say we as

732
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,360
a block want to stand up for I mean, the

733
00:38:20,519 --> 00:38:22,760
phrase I don't like is you know, ethno nationalism. Now,

734
00:38:23,119 --> 00:38:26,440
as I say, I totally understand it. It's a predictable

735
00:38:26,559 --> 00:38:29,320
and in some ways just reaction to what has been

736
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,159
going on. But it's also a mistake for the long term,

737
00:38:32,199 --> 00:38:35,800
and I hope that a New Right five point zero

738
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,519
does not make that a front and center principle of

739
00:38:39,599 --> 00:38:40,480
what should come next.

740
00:38:40,519 --> 00:38:42,519
Speaker 2: By the point was, you know, free markets, right, it

741
00:38:42,599 --> 00:38:44,079
goes along with individual liberty.

742
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 5: You know, an awful lot of the nat cons some

743
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,280
of them anyway, they're all for well some of them

744
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:50,320
say they like the new Deal.

745
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,280
Speaker 2: And here's here's a shout out for National Review.

746
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,119
Speaker 5: From this beginning, you know, new Right one point zero

747
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,400
was some names now forgotten like Peter Vierek and Clinton

748
00:38:59,519 --> 00:39:02,719
Rossiter and even Walter Littman is some extent. And what

749
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,760
were they saying in nineteen fifty They said conservatism should

750
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,519
support the New Deal and we should accept coexistence with communism.

751
00:39:10,039 --> 00:39:13,000
And then you go to National reviews of founding statements,

752
00:39:13,039 --> 00:39:14,639
and by the way, National Review, I think you can

753
00:39:14,679 --> 00:39:17,159
say starts new Right two point zero and it was

754
00:39:17,199 --> 00:39:19,840
called the New Right by the media in nineteen fifty five.

755
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,159
And you know, Buckley says in that famous Mission statement

756
00:39:23,199 --> 00:39:25,320
that you know, no, we're not making peace with the

757
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,760
New Deal, and anybody who does is not a conservative.

758
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,199
He was directly attacking Rossiter and Viereck and people like

759
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:35,239
that and so and then of course, you know, coexistence

760
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,920
with communism is unacceptable philosophically, he would say, as a

761
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,599
practical matter of course, they have nuclear weapons, but we

762
00:39:42,039 --> 00:39:44,559
cannot accept ideologically that they're legitimate.

763
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 2: Okay, that history is well known.

764
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 5: But now the nat coons are bringing back some of

765
00:39:49,039 --> 00:39:53,599
the old neo statist ideas of you know, Peter Vierek

766
00:39:53,679 --> 00:39:56,280
and all those SOEU de Son Conservatives of nineteen fifty

767
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,679
and you know, I tend to resist these cycles of

768
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,719
history theory, but it does seem sometimes like we're cotton one.

769
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:04,519
Speaker 3: Charlie.

770
00:40:05,119 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 7: I agree.

771
00:40:06,639 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 6: I think that despite the preference of many nap cons

772
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:21,440
for throwing tomatoes at National Review, if you read National

773
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,920
Reviews statement from nineteen fifty five, which is brilliant piece

774
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,519
of writing by William F. Buckley Junior and others, you

775
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,039
find that we essentially believe the same things as we

776
00:40:32,119 --> 00:40:37,440
did then, and individual liberty is core and free markets

777
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,840
are core. And even if you don't like those two things,

778
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:46,679
I think as a practical matter, they are the cause

779
00:40:47,119 --> 00:40:51,039
of everything else that is good about America. That doesn't

780
00:40:51,079 --> 00:40:53,519
mean that there are no trade offs, please don't misunderstand me.

781
00:40:53,559 --> 00:40:55,840
It also doesn't mean there are no downsides to those things.

782
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:56,199
Speaker 7: There are.

783
00:40:57,119 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 6: But the reason that America is militarily pre eminent, the

784
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:08,159
reason that America outlived the Soviet Union, the reason that

785
00:41:08,199 --> 00:41:12,400
America is technologically advanced, is because of individual liberty and

786
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:13,119
free markets.

787
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:14,599
Speaker 7: I think there is a tendency.

788
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 6: Certainly this is true on the left, and it does

789
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,800
exist to a smaller extent on the right to believe

790
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,159
that this is the natural order of things, that there's

791
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,719
something intrinsic to America in the soil or the sky

792
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:31,159
that has led to it being wealthy and powerful.

793
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 7: And I don't think that's true. I think that the.

794
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 6: Power and the wealth are the product of assumptions that

795
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:44,039
are baked in right back to the Declaration, and that

796
00:41:44,119 --> 00:41:47,400
if we lose those or substitute them and become sort

797
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:53,920
of mediocre, fluffy European social democracy type country.

798
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,039
Speaker 7: Will lose the rest of it.

799
00:41:56,159 --> 00:41:58,559
Speaker 6: So I don't just think that it is a good

800
00:41:58,599 --> 00:42:01,280
in and of itself, although I am an individualist, free marketer,

801
00:42:02,119 --> 00:42:06,400
I think that it undergods everything else that we like

802
00:42:06,559 --> 00:42:08,599
on the right about the United States.

803
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:10,679
Speaker 3: Yes, Charles, Well, that's just you down there in your

804
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:15,519
nice house living in America's wang for the rest of

805
00:42:15,519 --> 00:42:18,760
the country suffer. You're absolutely right. I agree with everything

806
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:20,639
you said. But the counter argument is, why should we

807
00:42:20,679 --> 00:42:22,880
believe in these things because they have brought this country

808
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:24,800
to the state in which it is. You have an

809
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:29,639
overall optimistic impression of the country. You like it, you

810
00:42:29,679 --> 00:42:33,360
see good in it, you see strengths. There are people

811
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,679
who do not see good in it, who do not

812
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,760
see strength and the rise of anti Americanism on the

813
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,920
right is that mirrors the anti America of the left

814
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,159
is one of those curious things and one of those

815
00:42:45,199 --> 00:42:47,880
bothersome things. And it has to do with people who say, well,

816
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:52,000
look where we are. All the factories are gone, pointless,

817
00:42:52,039 --> 00:42:56,119
wars in other countries, sold everything to China, the white

818
00:42:56,159 --> 00:43:00,079
men can't get jobs, miserable, awful wine box when in

819
00:43:00,119 --> 00:43:03,079
a running h R. Why should we have any investment

820
00:43:03,119 --> 00:43:05,400
in this? And we've come to this because of what

821
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,159
you've described of individual liberty, instead of thinking of deep

822
00:43:08,199 --> 00:43:11,400
consciousness and of free markets, instead of saying the government

823
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:12,960
is going to control and make things right for the

824
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,320
right people. I don't agree with any of that, but

825
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,280
I think that's what they're thinking, and that's the problem

826
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:18,199
that we have to address.

827
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:19,159
Speaker 2: Well.

828
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 5: I think all three of us have said we're all Reaganites,

829
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,599
and you know, someone who has written so much about Reagan,

830
00:43:25,639 --> 00:43:27,639
I get. I take it personally when I hear the

831
00:43:28,599 --> 00:43:30,559
young and up and rising people talk about how we

832
00:43:30,599 --> 00:43:33,480
don't want any zombie Reaganism or the more general form

833
00:43:33,519 --> 00:43:36,719
of that is what is conservatism inc As they like

834
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,480
to say, ever done for us? What is that Conserve.

835
00:43:39,639 --> 00:43:42,480
It really does remind me of Monty pythons. What are

836
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,599
the Romans ever done for us? We go through roles

837
00:43:44,599 --> 00:43:46,639
in schools of water. I can take off a lot

838
00:43:46,679 --> 00:43:49,880
of things. And some of this is just simple ignorance.

839
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,039
I mean a lot of people who trash Reagan, just

840
00:43:52,079 --> 00:43:56,280
to take that central example, truly haven't boughted to study

841
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,360
them at all. They really literally don't know what they're

842
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,840
talking about. They don't stand as I wrote an article

843
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:07,480
about this also recently for Civitas, about how the Trump administration,

844
00:44:07,639 --> 00:44:10,360
especially in its comprehensive attack on what we call the

845
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:15,400
administrative state, learn from the experience and some of the

846
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,960
failures of the Reagan years and the Reagan people. I

847
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,079
think they learned by the end of two terms that

848
00:44:20,199 --> 00:44:23,920
the problem of our administrative state was much more serious

849
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,960
and fundamental than they thought. They thought some simple reforms

850
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,599
would make great progress. They made only limited progress. But

851
00:44:30,679 --> 00:44:33,599
without that experience and that perception, I think we wouldn't

852
00:44:33,599 --> 00:44:34,719
be seeing the fight going.

853
00:44:34,519 --> 00:44:38,760
Speaker 2: On today, especially in the courts and elsewhere. And for

854
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:39,719
that they.

855
00:44:39,559 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 5: Owe a debt of gratitude to the Reagan years and

856
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,559
that conservative movement that really National Review has such a

857
00:44:44,599 --> 00:44:45,559
large part of the story.

858
00:44:45,679 --> 00:44:47,199
Speaker 2: And so I don't know.

859
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,760
Speaker 5: I'll just add this, James, because some of the things

860
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,280
you ticked off is a discussion I often bring up

861
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:59,360
with students, is is the American Constitution pro capitalists? Because

862
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,920
remember Wadam Smith's Wilson Nations was also published in seventeen

863
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,679
seventy six. Maybe not entirely a coincidence, I don't know,

864
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:07,920
And I can point to a number of clauses I

865
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,000
won't do it now that differ significantly from Oh, I

866
00:45:11,039 --> 00:45:15,880
don't know any European constitution, and they're implicitly pro open markets,

867
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:20,239
pro competition. Implicit in our constitution is an embrace of

868
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,199
competition between states. That's part of federalism, but it also

869
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:27,239
means economic competition, and we seem to be losing sight

870
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,559
of that. And so what I hear last point, sorry,

871
00:45:30,119 --> 00:45:32,480
what I hear from a lot of the younger disaffected

872
00:45:32,519 --> 00:45:36,719
people is well, our founding was really defective. Why because

873
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:40,719
it proved insufficiently robust to stop the century long progressive assault.

874
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,360
Now that's a decent criticism, But is the answer then

875
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,239
to say the founding was defective or we need to

876
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:48,719
fight our way back through? What's been going wrong for

877
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:50,719
one hundred years, and you know, that's a serious fight

878
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:52,320
going on these days, and I think they ought to

879
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:53,559
join the right side of that.

880
00:45:54,199 --> 00:46:00,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of people who want to return

881
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:05,800
with a v It's not just they're not content with

882
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:10,280
going back to basic American foundational ideas and strengthening those.

883
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,599
What they want is this sort of efflorescence of a

884
00:46:12,679 --> 00:46:16,840
lost European culture that they romanticize to the cathedrals and

885
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:24,199
the whole disposing with modernity in its various ugly forms.

886
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,119
And I understand that, and I'm slightly sympathetic to it.

887
00:46:26,159 --> 00:46:29,199
But the other day in one of these forums on Twitter,

888
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,400
somebody was somebody posted one of those return videos that

889
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:34,960
has this is the vision vouchsafe to you of what

890
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:36,960
we could be if only we did these, you know,

891
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,599
these sort of ethno nationalism things. And I slowed it

892
00:46:40,639 --> 00:46:44,800
down and I noted with interest a frame from a

893
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,400
Jack Benny movie that had some celestial stairs, which I

894
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,760
thought it was curious. And then I noticed something else

895
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:53,599
that thought was weird, And these shots appeared, but a

896
00:46:53,679 --> 00:46:57,400
duration of a quarter to half a second in this montage,

897
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,000
this millange of all the wonderful things that were build

898
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:05,559
built by the White race. And it was a very

899
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,840
large domed building that I recognized as having never been

900
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:15,920
built in Berlin. It was spears, big monumental, ugly piece

901
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:20,199
of garbage, over scaled nightmare, you know whatever. The house

902
00:47:20,199 --> 00:47:22,760
of the German people were supposed to be various approving

903
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,199
angles of it. And I say, oh, okay, I got you.

904
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,480
I know where you're coming from. Charles. I want to

905
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,599
ask you this before we begin to wrap it up here.

906
00:47:30,599 --> 00:47:33,480
When Steve was talking about the administrative state, the stranglehold

907
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:35,039
that it may have on the it does have on

908
00:47:35,079 --> 00:47:39,000
the economy, we have learned now of the extraordinary level

909
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,199
of fraud that we have in this country, in the state.

910
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,599
Might I add in this country we've been hearing for

911
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:48,159
years about fraudened abuse. I always see that as one

912
00:47:48,199 --> 00:47:51,039
German word. I'm going to cut the budget by tackling

913
00:47:51,199 --> 00:47:53,960
frauden abuse. And now we have it. And now some

914
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:55,679
people are saying that ten percent of the government, ten

915
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,719
percent of the economy is fraud. I think that maybe

916
00:47:59,039 --> 00:48:02,000
understating the issue. We have a bunch of people who

917
00:48:02,039 --> 00:48:05,119
are today leaving work in order to go to the

918
00:48:05,159 --> 00:48:10,000
protests about ice and the local the Democratic Socialist Party

919
00:48:10,079 --> 00:48:12,119
is telling them, hey, use that new Minnesota time off

920
00:48:12,119 --> 00:48:16,440
family lead law. It just never ends. It never ends.

921
00:48:16,559 --> 00:48:18,679
Did we see? Do you think to us enough to

922
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:22,280
extend to penetrate the general American consciousness? Between DOGE being

923
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:27,320
or between USAID being a massive money washing scheme that

924
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,079
sloshed it from the government to a Soros institution to

925
00:48:30,119 --> 00:48:32,960
someplace else in Peru, and the combination of fraud that

926
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,880
we have. Do you think that we have enough rage

927
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:42,239
to tackle an attempt to do something about the administrative state,

928
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:48,679
the reparation's retribution redistribution state, or is the swamp just

929
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:49,760
too deep and de fetted?

930
00:48:50,559 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 6: I don't know, But let me answer that by noting

931
00:48:54,480 --> 00:49:00,079
something that I found interesting in Steve State, California, there

932
00:49:00,159 --> 00:49:03,199
are those who is to impose a so called billionaires tax,

933
00:49:03,599 --> 00:49:06,400
and I think maybe for the first time in a

934
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,960
long time, they've pushed it too far because Californians will

935
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,519
put up with a lot to live in California, and

936
00:49:12,639 --> 00:49:17,960
quite rightly, because California is incredible, wonderful weather, geography, food, culture.

937
00:49:17,639 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 7: Atmosphere, and so forth.

938
00:49:20,199 --> 00:49:24,280
Speaker 6: One of the things that I keep hearing the billionaires

939
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:29,000
or the startup mavens who aren't billionaires but are nervous

940
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,480
that this law will destroy their businesses say that they

941
00:49:32,559 --> 00:49:37,280
haven't said before, is you know what you guys don't

942
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:38,760
need more money.

943
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 7: You need to use it properly.

944
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:47,760
Speaker 6: You need to stop the waste, you need to allocate

945
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:48,880
it efficiently.

946
00:49:49,519 --> 00:49:51,039
Speaker 7: And then they'll point to other states.

947
00:49:51,079 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 6: They'll say Texas managers, Florida managers, and they spend a

948
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,480
hell of a lot less than you do. I haven't

949
00:49:56,639 --> 00:50:01,039
heard those people say this until this year. Often they're

950
00:50:01,039 --> 00:50:03,920
incredibly defensive, and they essentially say, take whatever you need.

951
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 7: I need to keep making money.

952
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 6: Or they'll mutter about taxes hurting economic growth, which is

953
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,559
true in the more classical sense. But for the first

954
00:50:14,599 --> 00:50:17,159
time they've started saying, actually, your problem is not more money.

955
00:50:17,199 --> 00:50:19,320
That's not what you need. What you need is different

956
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,360
spending choices. And I think that might sit on a shift.

957
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:26,400
Whether that is going to penetrate the general electoral consciousness,

958
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:26,840
I don't know.

959
00:50:27,639 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 5: Okay, Can I just add a little footnote about that

960
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,960
the Billionaire's Tax there's a feature in it that's not

961
00:50:33,119 --> 00:50:36,840
widely understood or known yet. There's a feature note that says,

962
00:50:37,079 --> 00:50:40,119
maybe you own on paper three percent of a privately

963
00:50:40,159 --> 00:50:42,480
held startup or maybe it's gone public.

964
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:43,760
Speaker 2: I think it doesn't actually matter.

965
00:50:44,079 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 5: But if they are Class A voting shares and you control,

966
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,920
say twenty or thirty percent, they're saying your share of

967
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,360
the company is actually twenty or thirty percent, and therefore

968
00:50:54,679 --> 00:50:56,400
that's the amount of money we're going to ask from

969
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,079
you in taxes, not your three percent share of the

970
00:50:59,119 --> 00:51:02,679
net worth of company on the market or privately assessed,

971
00:51:03,039 --> 00:51:05,679
but you know, your voting share amount. That is a

972
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:09,320
dagger intended to kill the entire venture capital industry in

973
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,199
California and drive every startup out of the state.

974
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 2: And I kind of wonder if that's on purpose. I

975
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:15,639
actually think.

976
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,760
Speaker 5: That, you know, they're the people like Robert Reich who's

977
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,159
behind this, so hate capitalism and venture capitalists that they

978
00:51:21,159 --> 00:51:23,199
don't care that most of them are liberal Democrats.

979
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,559
Speaker 3: That's an unstanding feature. I think they just believe that

980
00:51:26,599 --> 00:51:28,280
these people will go out to the shed and get

981
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,480
another golden goose and cut it and open it up

982
00:51:30,519 --> 00:51:32,719
and the coins will tumble out. I've been looking at

983
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,719
what the list of proposed bills in Virginia, and the

984
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:39,679
new legislation is just an absolute eye opener. And we

985
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,039
actually should probably do a whole show about this because

986
00:51:42,159 --> 00:51:44,119
I mean, again, these things won't be passed. But now

987
00:51:44,159 --> 00:51:47,360
that everybody's licking their lips and saying, okay, what can

988
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,760
we do to Virginia, it is nothing but taxes, taxes, taxes, taxes, taxes,

989
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:53,320
new tourism tax raised at the hotel to tax seven

990
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:55,760
points seven five percent tax and incomes over a million,

991
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,079
creates new tax brackets and points a three point eight

992
00:51:58,519 --> 00:52:01,280
investment tax on top of stadium come. Allows every locality

993
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,400
to raise the sales tax by one percent, raises rounds

994
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:06,119
up the state and local taxes to the nearest five

995
00:52:06,199 --> 00:52:09,960
cent increment, allows localities to outlaw gas powered leaf blowers,

996
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,400
and then taxes the electric the versions that they have

997
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:14,760
to the electronic versions they have to buy. It is

998
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,400
exactly what they do because they believe that not enough

999
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:20,760
fair share is being paid, that there's just so much

1000
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:22,840
money out there, and if they got their hands on it,

1001
00:52:23,199 --> 00:52:25,880
then justice would somehow follow. Not enough justice. We got

1002
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:27,800
to keep taking it. We got to find out more

1003
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:32,039
places to take it from. But justice will finally be done. Hey,

1004
00:52:32,079 --> 00:52:33,840
I got to tell you this, folks. If you would

1005
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:36,559
like to meet light minded people like you're listening to

1006
00:52:36,599 --> 00:52:40,639
this podcast and saying, my gosh, these men just they're brilliant.

1007
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:46,039
That's not We're not average James. That would just average

1008
00:52:46,119 --> 00:52:48,679
Ricochet folks. And you know the women are good looking

1009
00:52:48,679 --> 00:52:50,800
as well, and smart and just as just as mouthy.

1010
00:52:51,559 --> 00:52:54,400
We have meetups in person, that's right. You don't find

1011
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,480
that in other sites because we actually trust to show that,

1012
00:52:56,599 --> 00:52:59,480
to show up and not start getting stabby. Got a

1013
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:01,800
group coming up in Detroit, Michigan. We've got another one

1014
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:04,519
in early February to Florida Space Coast. Go to ricochet

1015
00:53:04,519 --> 00:53:07,400
dot com, look for the meetup page and see what's there.

1016
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,519
It's ricochet dot com slash events and hey, if you

1017
00:53:10,559 --> 00:53:14,280
want to meet Ricochet people where you meet and live,

1018
00:53:14,679 --> 00:53:16,679
announce it on the page and see who shows up.

1019
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:19,000
You'll make new friends. And the fun part about it

1020
00:53:19,079 --> 00:53:21,639
is you'll probably not spend any time talking about politics.

1021
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:25,320
That's what I always found every other direction the conversation goes.

1022
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:30,000
That is probably it for us today. And I should

1023
00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:32,440
tell you maybe to give us that five star review

1024
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,960
and Apple podcasts, but I think I'm going to let

1025
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,199
that go this week. I should tell you that if

1026
00:53:37,199 --> 00:53:39,719
you go to ricochet dot com, it's not all free.

1027
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:42,320
I mean, yeah, a lots of fun stuff there is free,

1028
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,199
but the real communities form on the member site and

1029
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:51,159
it's you know, it's a couple of centavos, liray, whatever

1030
00:53:51,159 --> 00:53:52,519
you want to say. It does cost a little bit,

1031
00:53:52,559 --> 00:53:55,079
not much, and what you get is the right to comment,

1032
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:57,599
and that's what keeps it sane and civil and center

1033
00:53:57,679 --> 00:54:01,239
right and moderated and just good place to make friends.

1034
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:04,519
Trust me. So, Stephen, it's been great, Charles again, I've

1035
00:54:04,599 --> 00:54:07,440
enjoyed every single essence jot phoneme of a conversation. I

1036
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:10,480
hope the other people have as well. And I trust

1037
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:12,400
we will convene here next week.

1038
00:54:13,079 --> 00:54:15,760
Speaker 2: Only only if you stay warm, James.

1039
00:54:16,159 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 3: I'll stay warm. Even if I don't stay warm, I'll

1040
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:20,880
be here. And Charles, we are now at what version

1041
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:22,840
of Ricochet four point or do you just want to

1042
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:24,360
just wave your hands and say you don't know and

1043
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:25,000
it doesn't matter.

1044
00:54:25,159 --> 00:54:27,639
Speaker 6: I want to wave my hands and point people toward

1045
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:29,119
some of the new podcasts that.

1046
00:54:29,039 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 3: We have, Oh tell them about it.

1047
00:54:31,559 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 7: Well I did.

1048
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 6: We had Henry Elson's new podcast, Conservative Crossroads, and there

1049
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:38,840
is another one in the work, so I can't announce

1050
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,519
it yet, but I will on a future episode off

1051
00:54:41,559 --> 00:54:42,079
this show.

1052
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,639
Speaker 3: And the Nighter is back and every Saturday as well.

1053
00:54:46,159 --> 00:54:49,000
And yeah, it it's not just the post, not just

1054
00:54:49,039 --> 00:54:51,239
the member feed, it's all the podcast as well. What

1055
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:55,639
a media empire we are and we'll certainly surely soon become. Anyway,

1056
00:54:55,639 --> 00:54:57,639
it's been fun. We'll see you in the comments at Ricochet. Guys,

1057
00:54:57,719 --> 00:54:58,719
Bye bye.

1058
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 2: Ricochet.

1059
00:55:04,159 --> 00:55:05,159
Speaker 3: Join the conversation.