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<v Speaker 1>Hey, everybody, welcome to Pink Shade. It's Thursday. It's PAP

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<v Speaker 1>and Bravo Thursday, and I've got my friend Melissa here

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<v Speaker 1>from your bish therapist. And Melissa, if people don't know

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<v Speaker 1>where you got the title of your podcast, can you explain?

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<v Speaker 1>I know, but i'd like you for explain to the people.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, of course. And thank you Mary Payne for having

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<v Speaker 2>me back. I'm so grateful and excited to be here.

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<v Speaker 2>I love you so much. So my name comes from

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<v Speaker 2>miss Amy Phillips originally called herself Your Bitch Wife based

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<v Speaker 2>on and I don't know if people remember this. This

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<v Speaker 2>was kind of like a vintage Real Housewives of New

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<v Speaker 2>Jersey back when Teresa and Jojudicce were married and they

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<v Speaker 2>were at this winery and Joe was talking to someone

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<v Speaker 2>on his phone who it seemed like was a mistress.

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<v Speaker 2>But that was like huge drama anyway, So he says

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<v Speaker 2>to this person on the phone, here she comes my

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<v Speaker 2>bitch wife. Yea right, So Amy Phillips, she loved that,

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<v Speaker 2>and I I mean I didn't love it for Theresa,

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<v Speaker 2>but it was just a wild moment of pop culture

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<v Speaker 2>or history, and so I called into Amy Phillips podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>and I kind of got to know her a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>She had asked a question about lexapro and as a therapist,

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<v Speaker 2>I DMed her and I said, Amy, please allow me

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<v Speaker 2>to be your bitch therapist and she just loved it

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<v Speaker 2>and she was like, oh my gosh, that's hilarious. And

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<v Speaker 2>so then eventually she had me on her show when

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<v Speaker 2>I wasn't even this, I was just a therapist and

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<v Speaker 2>the name was born, and I just changed it to

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<v Speaker 2>Bish because I didn't think having a curse in the

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<v Speaker 2>title would help me necessarily, so.

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<v Speaker 3>I kind of pivoted on that.

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<v Speaker 2>But it really does all come from real households of

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<v Speaker 2>New Jersey and Amy Phillips and your Bish was born.

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<v Speaker 1>Was this when she was on Reality Checked? Or was

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<v Speaker 1>this when she started Drama Darling?

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<v Speaker 2>This was when she was on Reality Checked. It was

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<v Speaker 2>at the very end, right before she left. Yeah, And

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<v Speaker 2>so in reality for me, her leaving Reality Checked and

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<v Speaker 2>starting her new drama Darling venture worked really well for me.

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<v Speaker 3>And I love Amy.

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<v Speaker 2>I love her anyway, whether she's on serious or doing

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<v Speaker 2>her own thing.

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<v Speaker 3>I think she's fabulous.

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<v Speaker 2>But yes, this is right at that transition time that

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<v Speaker 2>Yabish was born.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, I love it. Well, you know, I love Amy.

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<v Speaker 1>She's a good friend of mine. And I think it's

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<v Speaker 1>so funny because I do wonder sometimes if people aren't

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<v Speaker 1>into Vintage Housewives, or they haven't watched every episode of

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<v Speaker 1>every season like people like us have, they might be like,

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<v Speaker 1>I wonder what your bish therapist means? So there, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>an Now we've explained it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean because the name sounds it's so funny.

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<v Speaker 2>It sounds so opposite to who I am, because you know,

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<v Speaker 2>sure I can be you know, sassy and all of

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<v Speaker 2>these things, but I'm mostly team humanity.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm such the opposite of a bitch.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like, it's so funny that that's my moniker.

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<v Speaker 3>But you know, I adore Amy.

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<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't have it any other way, and I'm honored

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<v Speaker 2>that this is the moniker.

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<v Speaker 3>This is what we're going so great.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, speaking of bitches, let's talk about some Bravo people

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<v Speaker 1>in the news, and let's talk about Jill Zarren. All right,

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<v Speaker 1>So it won't surprise you guys that I don't agree

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<v Speaker 1>with Jill Zarren in her politics. We don't really talk

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<v Speaker 1>politics here, but I felt what Jill did and if

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<v Speaker 1>you guys don't know, I'll just tell you quickly. After

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<v Speaker 1>Bad Bunnies halftime show, she went on a rant and

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<v Speaker 1>you can find it anywhere. She took it down, but

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<v Speaker 1>lots of people haven't include me you. She went on

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<v Speaker 1>a rant about Bad bunny and the halftime show said

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<v Speaker 1>it was anti American, said she didn't see any white people.

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<v Speaker 1>She didn't recognize Lady Gaga, who's white. She didn't recognize

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<v Speaker 1>her because of her facelift. She talked about Ricky Martin

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<v Speaker 1>having a wig. She said she really just sort of

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<v Speaker 1>tore the whole thing down. But really, her saying she

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<v Speaker 1>didn't see enough white people and felt that there were

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<v Speaker 1>subliminal messages and it was anti American got her fired

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<v Speaker 1>from the job she's been trying for ten years to get.

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<v Speaker 1>She has been trying for ten years to get back

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<v Speaker 1>on TV, and she blew it, thinking everybody wants her opinion.

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<v Speaker 1>On the halftime show, she even said Ali said I

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<v Speaker 1>shouldn't say all this because I'm going to get canceled,

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<v Speaker 1>but I have to say it. I'm sorry, And then

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<v Speaker 1>in the comments she doubled down. People were like, you're right, Jill.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, fuck the Puerto ricans, I don't know, and

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<v Speaker 1>she's like, that's right. She doubled down in the comments

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<v Speaker 1>because I read all of it in real time. Then

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<v Speaker 1>she took it down and her excuses, what can I say,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm human? Mm mmmmmmm mm. So she got fired. He

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<v Speaker 1>has announced a new show called The Golden Hour and

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<v Speaker 1>it is Ramona who let's just be honest, she's next

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<v Speaker 1>Ramona Luayne, Kelly, Ben Simone Sonia. Right, so let me

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<v Speaker 1>tell you what. Here's a prediction right here, right now,

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<v Speaker 1>I predict Jill's gone. They're going to slide Torenda in.

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<v Speaker 2>That's very interesting that you say that, because I do

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<v Speaker 2>think Derinda feels chronically left out and she I mean

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<v Speaker 2>speaking of bad behavior, you know, like there's a.

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<v Speaker 1>Reason she's still in pause.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, well, and let me be honest,

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<v Speaker 2>if you know, Bravo, whatever people want to say about Bravo,

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<v Speaker 2>but Bravo knows.

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<v Speaker 3>Who some of these women are.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that's why they didn't want this show

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<v Speaker 2>back on Bravo. I mean, Bravo it's a community of

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<v Speaker 2>inclusive people, allies and you know, advocates and all of that,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I just I think that Jill's Jill's comments.

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<v Speaker 2>Let me be clear, because I have people, I have

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<v Speaker 2>more people arguing with me about this than other things,

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<v Speaker 2>like other major things that I've said, like and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't necessarily talk a lot of politics either, but

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<v Speaker 2>as a therapist, therapy is political, right. We have to

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<v Speaker 2>support and advocate for marginalized groups and you know, cultural

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<v Speaker 2>competence and all these things.

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<v Speaker 3>I'd be the worst therapist in the world.

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<v Speaker 2>If I was like, yeah, what Jill's saying is totally right.

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<v Speaker 3>No, what Jill's saying, well, it.

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<v Speaker 1>Would be like if you said, look her EXCU says

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<v Speaker 1>she's human, and that's right. We're all human.

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<v Speaker 3>No, no, no, no. So here's here's my thought on this.

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<v Speaker 2>I actually am an ambassador for a brand called I

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<v Speaker 2>Am Human. I'm not kidding. Yeah, I'm an ambassador. It's

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<v Speaker 2>I am Human. It is a clothing brand. Check it

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<v Speaker 2>out i am human dot com. But and this was

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<v Speaker 2>not meant to be a plug. But I am Team Humanity,

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<v Speaker 2>and I am here to say that Jill's apology was

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<v Speaker 2>a non apology. It was one of the worst non

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<v Speaker 2>apology Housewives apologies we've ever seen. And being human doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>mean that you get to spout off about being racist

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<v Speaker 2>and hateful, and you know, America isn't just about white folks,

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<v Speaker 2>and there's a group of people who If that's what

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<v Speaker 2>you think America is, then you are woefully uneducated and misinformed.

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<v Speaker 3>That's that's what I'll say.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that being human means that, yes, we

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<v Speaker 2>make mistakes and we screw up, and we deserve grace.

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<v Speaker 3>What Jill did wasn't a human mistake.

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<v Speaker 2>She was outright racist, doubled down on it in her comments,

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<v Speaker 2>and then this non apology apology was a pr move

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<v Speaker 2>to sort of like, she still won't just say I

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<v Speaker 2>was wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Part of being human means when we make a misstep,

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<v Speaker 2>we have to take accountability and ownership. So if Jill

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<v Speaker 2>had said something like I didn't realize what I said

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<v Speaker 2>was racist, that wasn't my intention, And I have now

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<v Speaker 2>educated myself about, you know, the values that other cultures bring,

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<v Speaker 2>and also celebrating other cultures doesn't mean that we have

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<v Speaker 2>to hate or dislike them, like, we can celebrate other

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<v Speaker 2>cultures while still appreciating our own. I think that's the

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<v Speaker 2>thing that gets lost in this too. So, no, Jill's

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<v Speaker 2>not human, She royally screwed up. She is making excuses.

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<v Speaker 2>She does not deserve that apology, does not deserve empathy.

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<v Speaker 2>It tells me that she is surrounded by an echo

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<v Speaker 2>chamber of people who think just like her, and she

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<v Speaker 2>is not open to learning or hearing anything different, and

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<v Speaker 2>that is a real problem.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I think that you just in that last sentence,

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<v Speaker 1>you nailed Jill not open to learning or anything different,

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<v Speaker 1>because the behavior that we've seen of her is sort

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<v Speaker 1>of constantly like, well, this is the way it should

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<v Speaker 1>be and you're wrong. Like she goes around hotels and

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<v Speaker 1>it is like, Hi, I'm at the I'm at the

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<v Speaker 1>Rich Carlton of so and so, a five star hotel,

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<v Speaker 1>and I got to tell you, whatever is the sinth

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<v Speaker 1>they've got, it's wrong. They shouldn't have this scint and

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<v Speaker 1>the hallways people don't like it. And you're like, exactly right,

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<v Speaker 1>what what? So Yet, I think that that's always been

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<v Speaker 1>her way, and it may be endearing and fun. If

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<v Speaker 1>you're like kind of her part time Brandon and you

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<v Speaker 1>see her four times a year, you may be like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>she's a lot. She's fun to go on a trip

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<v Speaker 1>with bench And we joked that that's her personality, but

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<v Speaker 1>I think in real life and I just want to

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<v Speaker 1>again and I want to get your opinion. What is

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<v Speaker 1>it like? I had an opinion on the Bad Bunny thing.

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<v Speaker 1>My opinion is it was interesting. I don't speak Spanish,

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<v Speaker 1>I know that one song, but I was interested afterwards,

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<v Speaker 1>just like I was with the Kendrick Lamar last year,

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<v Speaker 1>to afterwards find out all the symbolism, because when they

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<v Speaker 1>do these halftime shows, yes, a lot of it is symbolism,

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<v Speaker 1>and if you're not like a huge fan, you don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>so it's cool later to go and see this meant this.

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<v Speaker 1>This meant that, right, if Billie Ailish did a halftime show,

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<v Speaker 1>nobody would have to explain it to me. I would

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<v Speaker 1>know all the symbolism, right, But Bad Bunny and Kendrick

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<v Speaker 1>Lamar I did not, So I think it's very interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't sit in my car and listen to Bad

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<v Speaker 1>Bunny all day, and again I don't speak Spanish. I

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<v Speaker 1>just enjoyed it because I thought it was interesting. But

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<v Speaker 1>I did not feel the need to put a camera

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<v Speaker 1>in my face and go on social media and explain that,

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<v Speaker 1>because who gives a flying fuck what I think? Like?

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<v Speaker 1>It was it wasn't for me, do you know what

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<v Speaker 1>I mean? It wasn't for me. Sure, sure, And that's

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<v Speaker 1>what I'm asking. What is the need to go to

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<v Speaker 1>social media and give your hot takes?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh boy?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so that's a different set of issues, I'm sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and no, it's such a good question. And I

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<v Speaker 2>love your comparison to the Kendrick Lamar thing because a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of white people didn't get that either, And I'm

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<v Speaker 2>just saying, like, as a white person, it's like there

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<v Speaker 2>were a lot of folks who that was in English,

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<v Speaker 2>but they were like, I don't understand this. But to

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<v Speaker 2>your point, it's like, if you're a fan of the person,

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<v Speaker 2>you understand the symbolism, like for example.

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<v Speaker 3>Bad Bunny, the whole.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh electric power thing where they kind of fell from

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<v Speaker 2>that was a nod. And when Puerto Rico was without

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<v Speaker 2>power for six months and there was no funding and

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<v Speaker 2>no one gave a shit. So there there was a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of cultural significance in what in the songs and

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<v Speaker 2>what he was saying. And now I think that what

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<v Speaker 2>makes people feel emboldened to put a camera in front

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<v Speaker 2>of their face and and talk about it is I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to be honest, it's narcissism.

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<v Speaker 3>And it's also.

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<v Speaker 2>A really narrow worldview because Jill believes that everybody should

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<v Speaker 2>think like her, right, and that is just not there's

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<v Speaker 2>narcissism in that, like narcissist is the most overused word,

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<v Speaker 2>like narcissist gaslighting, right, it's very overused. But we are

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<v Speaker 2>talking about narcissistic traits and tendencies, which we all have,

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<v Speaker 2>by the way, myself included, we all have those. I

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<v Speaker 2>kind of look at it on a scale from you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, not having a lot of traits and tendencies

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<v Speaker 2>kind of on the left side and having.

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<v Speaker 3>Tendan size right, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Where it crosses over into disorder, because people can have

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<v Speaker 2>narcissistic traits and tendencies without having a narcissistic person disorder

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<v Speaker 2>or an antisocial personality disorder. But the closer you move

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<v Speaker 2>over to this right side when it crosses into disorder, right,

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<v Speaker 2>And that's for the person's therapist or psychologist or psychiatrist

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<v Speaker 2>to figure out. But Jill is definitely somewhere on that

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<v Speaker 2>line thinking that I'm going to say this and all

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<v Speaker 2>people are going to support me, And again that just

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<v Speaker 2>tells me not only that there's narcissism. There's also entitlement

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<v Speaker 2>that she thinks her opinion should matter so much to

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<v Speaker 2>the world, Like who cares what Jill thinks? As they

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<v Speaker 2>said on the view, like who cares?

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<v Speaker 1>Are we sitting around like, oh god, it's over. I

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<v Speaker 1>can't wait to hear her, Jill Zarren has to say.

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<v Speaker 3>Right right, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's a mix of narcissism, it's a mix of entitlement.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a little bit of kind of I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>be honest, a little bit of delusion because I think

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<v Speaker 2>it just speaks to who Jill surrounds herself with. She probably,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Jill can never hear that she's wrong. She

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<v Speaker 2>can never he that she's made a mistake. And so

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<v Speaker 2>she's not going to be spending time with people who

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<v Speaker 2>challenge her perspectives or give her different sides of things.

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<v Speaker 2>They're gonna be all people who think just like her.

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<v Speaker 1>It's interesting because her, uh, her boyfriend in the background,

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<v Speaker 1>you could hear him going okay, no, you could hear

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<v Speaker 1>him like disagreeing with her. And she said in the comments,

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<v Speaker 1>Alie said, I'm going to get canceled. And Zara and Fabrics,

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<v Speaker 1>which was owned by her former husband put out a

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<v Speaker 1>picture of her face with a giant X on it

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<v Speaker 1>and said, we do not support racism, bigotry. The fact

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<v Speaker 1>that they put her headshot with an X on it

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<v Speaker 1>with their statement was.

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<v Speaker 2>Wild, so wild, so wild. But you know what it's like,

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<v Speaker 2>what I appreciate is that people are We live in

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<v Speaker 2>a very tenuous situation right now in the United States,

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<v Speaker 2>and I just love that there's a lot of advocacy

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<v Speaker 2>for cultural competence and appreciation of cultures that are different

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<v Speaker 2>than ours.

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<v Speaker 3>And I also thought it was hilarious.

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<v Speaker 2>But did you see that the grandson didn't ask me

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<v Speaker 2>anything on Reddit?

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<v Speaker 1>And I, oh, my step grandson. So it's bobby grandson's

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<v Speaker 1>it's her ex husband, I mean, not her, her former

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<v Speaker 1>husband who died. Bobby's is Bobby's grandson, so her step grandson. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>But I was I was seated and ready, and I

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<v Speaker 2>was just like, that is wild, you know. But Sarah Fabrics,

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<v Speaker 2>it's a business, and by the way, a business in

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<v Speaker 2>New York, which hello is the Melting Post, right, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's like, you know, a business and hopefully they really

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<v Speaker 2>believe the things that they said.

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<v Speaker 3>But I totally understand why they were.

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<v Speaker 2>Like, do not associate this with us because they also

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<v Speaker 2>just don't want that smoke.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it's it is just it is like Troy behind

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<v Speaker 1>the Blinds podcast posted and said, one thing about Jill,

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<v Speaker 1>she's always going to fumble her bag, and that's right,

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<v Speaker 1>one thing about her just when she's worked for ten

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<v Speaker 1>years to get back on TV, she's gonna fuck it

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<v Speaker 1>up and she has nobody to blame but herself. And

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<v Speaker 1>it's everything about it is sad. But I am at

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<v Speaker 1>see if you agree with me. I am stunned that

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<v Speaker 1>the next day E fired her because people don't get

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<v Speaker 1>fired over this shit, Melissa. People just don't.

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<v Speaker 3>Well here's the thing.

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<v Speaker 2>People don't get fired over this shit. Maybe other places,

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<v Speaker 2>but I think E is just you know, I just

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<v Speaker 2>think that there's a different generation, you know, running things

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<v Speaker 2>or having input with things, and it's just I like

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<v Speaker 2>that it's not being tolerated.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, was I so prized?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, shocked, shocked, But am I supportive of it?

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely?

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<v Speaker 2>In my comments on Instagram, people kept saying, you know

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<v Speaker 2>faf FO, which is you know, f around and find out.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we say this all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And so I just I love that actions do

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<v Speaker 2>have consequences, and sometimes we live in a world where

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<v Speaker 2>it feels like that's not happening, right, And so I

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<v Speaker 2>think people myself included, it's like, well, this might be

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<v Speaker 2>a small win, but we consider it a win because

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<v Speaker 2>someone somewhere is paying attention and holding someone accountable for something. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not going to fix the world, but hey, Jill's

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<v Speaker 2>Aaron fumbled her bag. Full agree on that, and she

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<v Speaker 2>has nobody to blame but herself.

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<v Speaker 3>Because here's the thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Ramona is as equally as problematic, let's be real, if

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<v Speaker 2>not significantly more problematic, if I'm being honest.

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<v Speaker 3>But he is.

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<v Speaker 2>Smart enough to keep her racism quiet. Now she is

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<v Speaker 2>smart well, and it's not I mean, I'm being facetious

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<v Speaker 2>obviously because I don't tolerate racism, but she, even Ramona

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<v Speaker 2>is going to be like, oh, well, I'm not going

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<v Speaker 2>to do that. You know, She's learned about what to

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<v Speaker 2>say and where to say it, I think, and so,

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<v Speaker 2>but I am just wondering. I'm like, well, where are

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<v Speaker 2>people reviewing Ramona's you know, tweets and her stuff on

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<v Speaker 2>social media and her ridiculous racist rants, Like where is

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<v Speaker 2>all that for me? I'm just not here for this

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<v Speaker 2>new reboot. I know that Countess Luanne is an advocate

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<v Speaker 2>and an ally, and Kelly ben Simone made a statement too,

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<v Speaker 2>but I'm just like, I don't know, do we really?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh Sonia?

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<v Speaker 1>I had to immediately host clips of her from the

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<v Speaker 1>show where it's like I love all my Latin friends,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm at my I'm It's gay Tuesday at my house.

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<v Speaker 1>She I mean, within thirty minutes she had all those

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<v Speaker 1>clips ready showing how she's and I was like, whos

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<v Speaker 1>Sonya's he was pulling those clips because how could you

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<v Speaker 1>even remember the twenty years ago she said I love

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<v Speaker 1>all my Latin gaze? Like, how could she tell you

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<v Speaker 1>that clip so fast?

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<v Speaker 3>I was like, so I know, but also I do.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it is hilarious to be like there was

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<v Speaker 2>someone else and the name is escaping me. That was like,

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<v Speaker 2>oh my gosh. Brandy Glanville tweeted about She's like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>I love bad Bunny and I think he's so hot.

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<v Speaker 3>But Jill has the right.

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<v Speaker 2>To her opinion, and it's like, are we really trying

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<v Speaker 2>to say I'm attracted to Puerto Rican men so therefore

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<v Speaker 2>it's not racist?

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<v Speaker 3>Like is that really what we're trying to do here.

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<v Speaker 3>But Sonya's think too.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like, well, I have friends who are Puerto Rican

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<v Speaker 2>and all this stuff, and it's like, Okay, let me

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<v Speaker 2>be really clear. We cannot be allies or advocates for

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<v Speaker 2>a marginalized group if we're voting actively against their rights, right,

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<v Speaker 2>That's what I'm going to say. And so having someone

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<v Speaker 2>having friends who are Puerto Rican or Latin, or finding

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<v Speaker 2>someone in a tract of like bad Bunny, that's not like,

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<v Speaker 2>that's not advocacy. That's kind of performative and all of

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<v Speaker 2>that stuff. But I just think Sonya is you know, Sonya,

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<v Speaker 2>it's Sonya Rita. She's just like, that's her personality.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't I don't.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think that was intended to be. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know what the word I'm looking for.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's I think it's hilarious that she still

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<v Speaker 1>has an intern that can, at the blink of an

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<v Speaker 1>eye pull up a clip from her from twenty years

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<v Speaker 1>ago incorporating Latin gay culture. You know, it was like,

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<v Speaker 1>oh god, listen, I got a porter twice every year.

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<v Speaker 1>I love it. You know, You're like, wow, she's got

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<v Speaker 1>somebody working double time pulling these things. I know, I

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<v Speaker 1>love it. I was like, yes, Luanne always on the

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<v Speaker 1>right side. Now not always probably, but not when she

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<v Speaker 1>tried to when she threatened to murder the cop.

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<v Speaker 3>But oh yeah, I forget about that.

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<v Speaker 1>So we'll see what happens with this new show. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>predicting they're gonna slide Durinda in, who also got in

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<v Speaker 1>some trouble after the Traders for her behavior towards Ron.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Derinda has just had real bad behavior for a really

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<v Speaker 2>long time.

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<v Speaker 1>And so she's not getting back on Bravo.

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<v Speaker 3>She will.

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<v Speaker 1>She is on Radio Andy with Keikim Monique, which I

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<v Speaker 1>can I have no clue and no personal knowledge, but

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<v Speaker 1>I can imagine it's a daily struggle for keik But

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<v Speaker 1>I have no knowledge of this. I'm just projecting imagine

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<v Speaker 1>it would be hard. So she is on Radio Andy,

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<v Speaker 1>but she's never been invited back to be on any

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<v Speaker 1>show on Bravo. Yeah, you know, I think funny crappy

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00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:40.000
<v Speaker 1>Lake's been off with Derenda nothing, So I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>she's ever getting back on Bravo. So she better really

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<v Speaker 1>make sure she keeps her mouth shut because she wants

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<v Speaker 1>to be back on TV. Too.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but Derenda it has that same thing as Jill,

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00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:52.880
<v Speaker 2>where they just cannot keep their mouth closed. They just

397
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<v Speaker 2>think that their voices need to be heard all the time,

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00:21:56.599 --> 00:22:00.519
<v Speaker 2>and again there's a narcissism entitlement, but also listen, a

399
00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:04.759
<v Speaker 2>desire for attention, which is fair, like all humans need

400
00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:07.759
<v Speaker 2>love and attention and support. We all do that, but

401
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:11.599
<v Speaker 2>I think they need to do that privately and give

402
00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:14.759
<v Speaker 2>up the ghost of trying to be beloved by fans,

403
00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:19.680
<v Speaker 2>like maybe do some internal work, love yourself and then

404
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:22.559
<v Speaker 2>get the love and support from the people around you

405
00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:24.279
<v Speaker 2>instead of you know, from I.

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00:22:24.279 --> 00:22:26.799
<v Speaker 1>Think Jill loves herself a lot. I think she's doing

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<v Speaker 1>just fine with that.

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00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:31.039
<v Speaker 3>She does tend to love herself a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>But sometimes people like that, there are a lot of

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00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:38.759
<v Speaker 2>kernels underneath that of really not feeling good enough. Sometimes

411
00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:43.039
<v Speaker 2>it's overcompensating, and sometimes they really do believe that, and

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<v Speaker 2>then that can be part of a greater issue.

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<v Speaker 1>That's why does yeah Jack Saylor Okay, And when I

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<v Speaker 1>say Jax, I mean he has discussed, he's obviously diagnosed.

415
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<v Speaker 1>What did he say? He goes He was a nine

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<v Speaker 1>out of a ten on the narcissism scale. Or whatever,

417
00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:01.039
<v Speaker 1>and we're like, hey, yeah, yeah, yeah he said that

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<v Speaker 1>on one of the Valley After shows in the first season.

419
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:05.440
<v Speaker 1>He goes, yeah, I took that test and I was

420
00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:07.519
<v Speaker 1>like nine out of ten on the I was like,

421
00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:10.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm surprised you weren't eleven out of ten.

422
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:15.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm surprised they didn't find a new scoring system

423
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:16.680
<v Speaker 2>for checks Taylor.

424
00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:21.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So we haven't heard from him in a while.

425
00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:24.799
<v Speaker 1>My understanding of that is that allegedly he was in

426
00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:28.359
<v Speaker 1>a full, you know, four month rehabah, which is what

427
00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:31.440
<v Speaker 1>he needed, which is what he needs to be away

428
00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:33.759
<v Speaker 1>he did and not be able to come home and

429
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:34.680
<v Speaker 1>check his mail.

430
00:23:35.920 --> 00:23:39.160
<v Speaker 3>And terrorist Brittany Dey on camera, Yeah.

431
00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:44.039
<v Speaker 1>Ury rehab. Okay, that's Jill's err and we solve that. Now,

432
00:23:44.920 --> 00:23:50.160
<v Speaker 1>let's see if we can solve the Karen Huger interview. Okay,

433
00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:53.319
<v Speaker 1>so I watched it now last week I talked to

434
00:23:53.400 --> 00:23:55.319
<v Speaker 1>Dylan and Pat a Bad TV about it, but they

435
00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:57.319
<v Speaker 1>had not fully seen it. They had only seen clips.

436
00:23:58.359 --> 00:24:02.480
<v Speaker 1>I studied it like the Uppruval film because I couldn't

437
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:06.759
<v Speaker 1>get over the new nose. You guys, I know that's

438
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:09.920
<v Speaker 1>not important, but she got that nose job before she

439
00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:12.920
<v Speaker 1>went to prison, because which they showed her come out

440
00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:15.000
<v Speaker 1>and she had the braids and the due rag and stuff,

441
00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:18.359
<v Speaker 1>she'll real cute and everything when they if we're to

442
00:24:18.440 --> 00:24:20.759
<v Speaker 1>believe that was not a reenaction, which I can't imagine

443
00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:23.920
<v Speaker 1>she went to the courthouse and reenacted that with flashbulbs

444
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:27.000
<v Speaker 1>and stuff, assuming that was when she actually came out

445
00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:28.880
<v Speaker 1>and she gets in the car, they got the go pros.

446
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:32.039
<v Speaker 1>She had that nose, She had that new nose. Because

447
00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:33.599
<v Speaker 1>when I just first saw the clips, I was like,

448
00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:35.759
<v Speaker 1>new nos do this, But then when I saw the

449
00:24:35.799 --> 00:24:37.680
<v Speaker 1>whole episode with her coming out, I was like, she's

450
00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:39.920
<v Speaker 1>already got the new nose. So she got that new

451
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:45.079
<v Speaker 1>nose before she went to prison, which, by the way,

452
00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:47.039
<v Speaker 1>kind of smart gave it time to settle.

453
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:50.640
<v Speaker 3>I mean, that's true, that's accurate.

454
00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:52.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because other people were like, if she got out

455
00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:57.839
<v Speaker 1>in September and this interview is airing in January, she

456
00:24:58.000 --> 00:24:59.960
<v Speaker 1>definitely didn't get out of prison, go right to it

457
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:02.079
<v Speaker 1>surgeon and have two months to recover and have a

458
00:25:02.119 --> 00:25:03.880
<v Speaker 1>nose look like this by the time she's a interviewed

459
00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:05.839
<v Speaker 1>with Andy. There's just not enough time.

460
00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:07.119
<v Speaker 3>One thousand percent.

461
00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:09.640
<v Speaker 2>Yes, proven by the fact that we've seen some of

462
00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:12.359
<v Speaker 2>our housewives get work done right before like.

463
00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:13.160
<v Speaker 3>The season starts.

464
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:16.079
<v Speaker 2>Yes, you can tell like Vicky Gunfilson, and you can

465
00:25:16.119 --> 00:25:18.960
<v Speaker 2>tell that something's off like it does take time. So

466
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:21.079
<v Speaker 2>that is a good breakdown because I asked you before

467
00:25:21.079 --> 00:25:23.319
<v Speaker 2>we started filming this, I was like, when did she

468
00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:26.599
<v Speaker 2>do it? And but then it's like, if you think

469
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:31.759
<v Speaker 2>about that, right, does not that also inform our perspective

470
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:36.319
<v Speaker 2>about this interview where it's like, so you were going

471
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:39.200
<v Speaker 2>to be on trial, you weren't listening to your lawyers,

472
00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:43.359
<v Speaker 2>you were in rehab, and you also found time to

473
00:25:43.480 --> 00:25:48.359
<v Speaker 2>get plastic surgery, Like, does that not inform our thinking

474
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:50.880
<v Speaker 2>about what Karen's priorities are?

475
00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:52.319
<v Speaker 3>That's wild.

476
00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:54.880
<v Speaker 1>It is wild to me, and you know the listeners

477
00:25:54.920 --> 00:25:57.480
<v Speaker 1>know here. You know my husband is recovering alcoholic. He's

478
00:25:57.519 --> 00:26:02.119
<v Speaker 1>eleven years sober. So I am very familiar with the language. Yes,

479
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:04.759
<v Speaker 1>thank congratulations to him. I'm very familiar with the language.

480
00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:08.319
<v Speaker 1>I'm familiar with rehab. He was in a rehab facility

481
00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:12.119
<v Speaker 1>for ninety days in Utah. I'm familiar with the trauma.

482
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:14.519
<v Speaker 1>I'm familiar with what it does to your family. I'm

483
00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:17.119
<v Speaker 1>familiar what it does to the addict, all of it. Okay,

484
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:22.440
<v Speaker 1>personal lived experience is what I'm going from this. I

485
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:26.640
<v Speaker 1>can't imagine that he would let's just say he came

486
00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:28.519
<v Speaker 1>out of rehab and his first thing would be like,

487
00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:30.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, I've never felt my teeth are white enough,

488
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:34.640
<v Speaker 1>so I'm gonna give venears. I can't imagine it would

489
00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:38.119
<v Speaker 1>be on his mind. His whole being is like, I

490
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:43.519
<v Speaker 1>am trying to be sober today, right, I'm not considering

491
00:26:43.960 --> 00:26:48.000
<v Speaker 1>going under anesthesia so I can get some painkillers to

492
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:48.839
<v Speaker 1>get a procedure.

493
00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:54.160
<v Speaker 3>Boom boom. Because that's the other thing. And because so

494
00:26:54.400 --> 00:26:55.839
<v Speaker 3>you have that lived experience.

495
00:26:55.880 --> 00:26:59.440
<v Speaker 2>And I spent a lot of my career working in

496
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:02.759
<v Speaker 2>in PA drug and alcohol treatment, so I also have

497
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:07.039
<v Speaker 2>a very good understanding. I've seen people, you know, sick

498
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:11.400
<v Speaker 2>and under the influence of that addictive thinking, and then

499
00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:14.759
<v Speaker 2>you see them when they cross over into recovery. And

500
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:18.839
<v Speaker 2>there is something about people who are truly working one

501
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:21.279
<v Speaker 2>day at a time to save their own lives. And

502
00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:24.480
<v Speaker 2>the one thing I'll say is there is one cornerstone

503
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:27.119
<v Speaker 2>that you'll see among people who are really doing the work,

504
00:27:27.400 --> 00:27:32.000
<v Speaker 2>and that is humility. Humility, to me is one of

505
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:35.440
<v Speaker 2>those things that It's like if someone comes out of

506
00:27:35.559 --> 00:27:40.240
<v Speaker 2>treatment and they're still having so much hubris about you

507
00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:44.759
<v Speaker 2>know this or that, or if they haven't let all

508
00:27:44.839 --> 00:27:50.359
<v Speaker 2>of that go and surrendered. To me, that's still addictive thinking,

509
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:54.279
<v Speaker 2>that's still alcoholic thinking. There's still so much illness that

510
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:56.839
<v Speaker 2>I see in that lack of humility.

511
00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:59.279
<v Speaker 3>If that makes sense, well.

512
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:02.440
<v Speaker 1>I needed to give Jax is another example of just

513
00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:04.599
<v Speaker 1>you know, we're just going with people on our television guys,

514
00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:06.759
<v Speaker 1>not people we actually know. But if we look at

515
00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:09.680
<v Speaker 1>Jackson as an example of somebody with no humility, right

516
00:28:09.880 --> 00:28:12.480
<v Speaker 1>just never would accept he had a problem. Now, we

517
00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:16.160
<v Speaker 1>don't know with what he's been doing. Now if maybe

518
00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:18.640
<v Speaker 1>we will actually see some growth in him, it would

519
00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:20.799
<v Speaker 1>be shocking because we're so used to seeing no growth.

520
00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:24.240
<v Speaker 1>But maybe, you know, we'll see. But with Karen, she

521
00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:27.839
<v Speaker 1>flip flopped so much during this interview to say no,

522
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:33.160
<v Speaker 1>she's not an alcoholic and then later said alcoholism, So

523
00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:36.640
<v Speaker 1>which one is it? And then she said, like she

524
00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:39.599
<v Speaker 1>corrected Andy when he said he drove drunk four times,

525
00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:42.079
<v Speaker 1>She's like, love me, correct you. Only two of those

526
00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:47.359
<v Speaker 1>were DUIs. Two of the other ones were alcohol related incidents.

527
00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:52.440
<v Speaker 1>And that's parsing like I'm just again my own experience

528
00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:54.720
<v Speaker 1>with my husband and other addicts in my life would

529
00:28:54.759 --> 00:28:58.640
<v Speaker 1>never say, well, well I did that, but I didn't

530
00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:01.519
<v Speaker 1>do that because they quickly know how to replace the

531
00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:04.400
<v Speaker 1>language and go. But it's not about what I did

532
00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:09.680
<v Speaker 1>compared to this or that. It's about taking accountability for

533
00:29:09.759 --> 00:29:11.559
<v Speaker 1>what I did right.

534
00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:17.519
<v Speaker 2>Right. The language that Karen used throughout this interview, she

535
00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:20.279
<v Speaker 2>was speaking out of both sides of her mouth, which

536
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:23.519
<v Speaker 2>that told me that she has not changed.

537
00:29:24.279 --> 00:29:26.079
<v Speaker 3>This has not sunk in for her.

538
00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:26.400
<v Speaker 1>Now.

539
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:31.079
<v Speaker 2>In fairness, we have both seen that to get into recovery,

540
00:29:31.160 --> 00:29:32.920
<v Speaker 2>it's a long, lengthy process.

541
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:33.200
<v Speaker 1>Right.

542
00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:36.920
<v Speaker 2>Not only do you have the detox in the withdrawal

543
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:39.880
<v Speaker 2>period when you first stop using, you have what's called

544
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:43.680
<v Speaker 2>post acute withdrawal syndrome PAUSE for short that can last

545
00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:44.359
<v Speaker 2>for years.

546
00:29:44.440 --> 00:29:45.759
<v Speaker 1>Right. Yeah, So I.

547
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:48.880
<v Speaker 2>Say this because I do hope that Karen can get there,

548
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:54.759
<v Speaker 2>But the language is incongruent with her actions. She is

549
00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:59.559
<v Speaker 2>still trying to make excuses for her behaviors. Correcting Andy

550
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:03.640
<v Speaker 2>was so bold and just so stupid, because someone who's

551
00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:06.799
<v Speaker 2>really in recovery. Part of being in recovery, especially if

552
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:09.559
<v Speaker 2>you're working a twelve step program. A lot of it

553
00:30:09.640 --> 00:30:14.759
<v Speaker 2>is looking at our character defects and owning and saying yes,

554
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:17.839
<v Speaker 2>making amends for these are the decisions that I made.

555
00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:22.000
<v Speaker 2>Someone who is truly owning something accountable and making amends

556
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:27.319
<v Speaker 2>through their behaviors is not going to quabble over a

557
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:30.559
<v Speaker 2>couple of words that Andy said there is still so

558
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:34.359
<v Speaker 2>much narcissism, and that there's still entitlement, there's still a

559
00:30:34.519 --> 00:30:39.519
<v Speaker 2>willfulness that you can't have that wilfulness and be sober,

560
00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:43.359
<v Speaker 2>because the whole thing with sobriety is surrender, surrendering that

561
00:30:43.640 --> 00:30:48.240
<v Speaker 2>right there is something greater than ourselves, and Karen has

562
00:30:48.319 --> 00:30:52.000
<v Speaker 2>most certainly her language has told me she has not surrendered.

563
00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:56.680
<v Speaker 2>If anything, What actually made me angry and I cannot

564
00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:00.880
<v Speaker 2>wait to watch the reunion is that Karen how slips

565
00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:03.319
<v Speaker 2>into this reunion even though she was in jail for

566
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:07.720
<v Speaker 2>the entire season. And I watch her reading Wendy and

567
00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:12.599
<v Speaker 2>it's like, listen, honey, you need to sit down, take

568
00:31:12.680 --> 00:31:18.480
<v Speaker 2>some accountability of your life before you try reading anybody.

569
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:20.960
<v Speaker 3>You need to look at your own self. And that's

570
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:22.920
<v Speaker 3>just how I know she's full of it. She is

571
00:31:23.319 --> 00:31:25.720
<v Speaker 3>full of it. Yeah, I don't like it.

572
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:30.440
<v Speaker 1>I didn't like how she quabbled over if she was

573
00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:33.640
<v Speaker 1>in NA or AA and how she was addicted to

574
00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:37.359
<v Speaker 1>pills not alcohol. Alcohol was not calling to her, and

575
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:40.000
<v Speaker 1>Andy goes, it was definitely called to you the night

576
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:42.839
<v Speaker 1>you got the dui, and she was like, it wasn't

577
00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:45.559
<v Speaker 1>calling to me that night. It doesn't matter if it

578
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:47.359
<v Speaker 1>was calling to you. You got a dui. You were like

579
00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:49.720
<v Speaker 1>four times over the legal limit. We saw the video

580
00:31:50.119 --> 00:31:51.480
<v Speaker 1>right right.

581
00:31:51.640 --> 00:31:56.119
<v Speaker 2>It's so common, though, to see people have more comfort

582
00:31:56.319 --> 00:31:59.880
<v Speaker 2>with using A over B like I would see that all.

583
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:01.359
<v Speaker 3>The time time and impatient treatment.

584
00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:04.960
<v Speaker 2>They're comfortable with I use alcohol, but I'm not comfortable

585
00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:06.839
<v Speaker 2>with saying I use methamphetamines.

586
00:32:06.920 --> 00:32:07.079
<v Speaker 1>Right.

587
00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:08.519
<v Speaker 3>That part is human.

588
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:12.279
<v Speaker 2>But what angered me to no extent that I will

589
00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:17.400
<v Speaker 2>happily talk about right now is that she weaponized antidepressants

590
00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:22.000
<v Speaker 2>as the cause for her behavior. And so let me

591
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:25.200
<v Speaker 2>because this is something I talked about on my podcast and.

592
00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:27.240
<v Speaker 3>A lot of people felt they appreciated it.

593
00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:31.759
<v Speaker 2>I believe Karen is using the broad term antidepressant to

594
00:32:32.119 --> 00:32:35.359
<v Speaker 2>mask some things that she was really doing.

595
00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:38.799
<v Speaker 1>She would not say what it was because the pharmaceutical

596
00:32:38.839 --> 00:32:39.880
<v Speaker 1>company's going to sue her.

597
00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:45.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, here's why what, Because if she's making claims that

598
00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:48.359
<v Speaker 2>an antidepressant led to drunk driving, she will get sued

599
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:53.400
<v Speaker 2>because that is patently false. Antidepressants, Now, there are different

600
00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:56.279
<v Speaker 2>levels of antidepressants. I'm not going to go all dorky

601
00:32:56.359 --> 00:33:02.079
<v Speaker 2>science here, but there's SSRIs select serotonin reuptake inhibitors and

602
00:33:02.119 --> 00:33:11.039
<v Speaker 2>then s NRIs selective neuroepenephrine reuptake inhibitors. Those medications like paxel, lexapro, prozac,

603
00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:15.000
<v Speaker 2>things like that, those don't cause drunk driving. Those are

604
00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:18.279
<v Speaker 2>life saving for people who struggle with depression. And I'm

605
00:33:18.279 --> 00:33:21.079
<v Speaker 2>going to be honest myself included. I'm a lexapro gal here.

606
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:22.160
<v Speaker 1>I have a question.

607
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:23.160
<v Speaker 3>I take a fixer.

608
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:25.839
<v Speaker 1>Which one is that? Which which category is? Effects are

609
00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:30.079
<v Speaker 1>in Vincent's vinyl flexifhlene as I like.

610
00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:38.319
<v Speaker 3>I know all those names are really really hard to say.

611
00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:42.839
<v Speaker 2>I've actually taken effects or two and I I didn't

612
00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:44.480
<v Speaker 2>have good luck on that.

613
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:46.119
<v Speaker 3>I've taken it.

614
00:33:46.039 --> 00:33:48.400
<v Speaker 1>For surprise eleven years.

615
00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:51.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, listen, if it works for you, that's great. Okay,

616
00:33:51.359 --> 00:33:55.599
<v Speaker 2>So it is effects or is an s n R I? Okay,

617
00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:59.920
<v Speaker 2>So lexapro is an SSRI I? Okay an SNRI I

618
00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:02.599
<v Speaker 2>didn't work for me, So an SNR I did work

619
00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:06.119
<v Speaker 2>for you, and that's what effects her. Is now, what

620
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:09.679
<v Speaker 2>I believe that Karen may have been talking about is

621
00:34:09.719 --> 00:34:17.840
<v Speaker 2>something like xanax or adavan, which xanax is a benzodiazepine.

622
00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:18.440
<v Speaker 1>Benzon now correct.

623
00:34:18.679 --> 00:34:23.039
<v Speaker 2>So benzo diazepines, for those who don't know, are highly addictive.

624
00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:27.360
<v Speaker 2>And when you mix a benzodiazepine with alcohol, that honestly

625
00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:28.119
<v Speaker 2>could be deadly.

626
00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:31.119
<v Speaker 3>And I will tell you what is a benzodiazepine.

627
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:35.800
<v Speaker 2>It's going to decrease your heart rate, your respiratory rate.

628
00:34:36.840 --> 00:34:40.480
<v Speaker 2>It's kind of like a nervous system. It calms your

629
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:43.880
<v Speaker 2>nervous system, right, it's and it's not an antidepressant, but

630
00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:48.519
<v Speaker 2>it can be helpful when used clinically appropriately for short

631
00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:51.760
<v Speaker 2>term for panic and anxiety disorders and things like that.

632
00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:55.199
<v Speaker 1>Okay, xanax, I talk about it all the time. The

633
00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:57.039
<v Speaker 1>joke in our house is half a XANX, half a

634
00:34:57.079 --> 00:35:01.840
<v Speaker 1>xanax because if I ever have to fly, and not

635
00:35:01.880 --> 00:35:03.199
<v Speaker 1>as much as I used to be cause I fly

636
00:35:03.320 --> 00:35:04.760
<v Speaker 1>so much now, but it used to any time I

637
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:05.920
<v Speaker 1>had to fly, I would be like, I have to

638
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:08.760
<v Speaker 1>take a half of a innex and that's like the

639
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:10.679
<v Speaker 1>kids make a joke like, oh, Mom's gonna take a

640
00:35:10.679 --> 00:35:12.440
<v Speaker 1>half a Anex I got. I really wish I wouldn't

641
00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:14.880
<v Speaker 1>make that joke because it does make me sound like

642
00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:18.400
<v Speaker 1>I have a problem. I get a Xanax prescription that'll

643
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:22.679
<v Speaker 1>last me like two years, because if I ever have anxiety,

644
00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:24.599
<v Speaker 1>and it used to be every year. I'll give you

645
00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:27.599
<v Speaker 1>another example. We had a Christmas party every year. It's

646
00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:30.920
<v Speaker 1>the maximum, twenty five to thirty people, not a big party,

647
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:36.000
<v Speaker 1>but for some reason, I would get so sweaty, like

648
00:35:36.039 --> 00:35:37.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm just right now, like my mouth would get dry,

649
00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:40.159
<v Speaker 1>it'd be sweaty. I'd be so freaking dirpous. I could

650
00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:41.960
<v Speaker 1>feel it just my heart going out of my chest,

651
00:35:42.039 --> 00:35:46.840
<v Speaker 1>like why, And I would at Christmas take the half

652
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:48.360
<v Speaker 1>the Xanx. I wouldn't have a drink at the party

653
00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:51.119
<v Speaker 1>because I know you're not supposed to, but I would say,

654
00:35:51.320 --> 00:35:53.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna have to take half a a Innex. And

655
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:57.639
<v Speaker 1>so at my wedding, I was about to walk down

656
00:35:57.639 --> 00:35:59.800
<v Speaker 1>the aisle and had a Carrie Bradshaw get this dress

657
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:02.239
<v Speaker 1>all of me moment. Had to take the whole thing off.

658
00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:04.320
<v Speaker 1>And it's not because I didn't want to get me.

659
00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:07.480
<v Speaker 1>I hate the idea and this is again counterintuitive to

660
00:36:07.480 --> 00:36:09.280
<v Speaker 1>what I do for my job. I hate the idea

661
00:36:09.320 --> 00:36:13.440
<v Speaker 1>of people looking at me. Sure, right, and that's why

662
00:36:13.480 --> 00:36:15.800
<v Speaker 1>I hate that. Now we're all on video whatever, but

663
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:18.280
<v Speaker 1>that's a whole nother thing. But I hate the idea

664
00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:22.800
<v Speaker 1>of everybody looking at me and my mom. This is

665
00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:25.360
<v Speaker 1>I've told the story a million times. My mom pulled

666
00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:29.199
<v Speaker 1>out like an old lady pill bottle out of her bag,

667
00:36:29.239 --> 00:36:32.000
<v Speaker 1>which had like Tom's admil.

668
00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:33.960
<v Speaker 3>I love that.

669
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:36.199
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what else she had in there. She

670
00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:40.840
<v Speaker 1>poured it out on the couch like xanax covered in Rolds. Right,

671
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:45.440
<v Speaker 1>and my friend, who's a pharm d a doctorate of pharmacy,

672
00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:47.239
<v Speaker 1>looked at all of them and she knew what they were.

673
00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:50.559
<v Speaker 1>She got the xanax, gave me like a quarter of

674
00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:53.719
<v Speaker 1>whatever it was. She talks about that twenty five years.

675
00:36:53.719 --> 00:36:55.280
<v Speaker 1>My friend still talks about this day. She was like,

676
00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:58.599
<v Speaker 1>I've never seen anything like that your mom. I was like,

677
00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:01.719
<v Speaker 1>my mom has probably had that onex for ten years.

678
00:37:01.320 --> 00:37:03.599
<v Speaker 3>For twenty years.

679
00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:06.000
<v Speaker 1>Waiting for somebody to need it, and it's covered in

680
00:37:06.039 --> 00:37:09.199
<v Speaker 1>like tones enroll a. Does you just liked it off?

681
00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:12.400
<v Speaker 1>To me, and twenty minutes later I was okay.

682
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Right, well, listen, let me be super clear, because I have.

683
00:37:16.280 --> 00:37:16.800
<v Speaker 1>You need it.

684
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:21.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I have complex PTSD and I do have a

685
00:37:21.079 --> 00:37:24.480
<v Speaker 2>lot of struggles with panic and anxiety due to medical trauma.

686
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:26.199
<v Speaker 3>And so is xanax.

687
00:37:26.360 --> 00:37:33.760
<v Speaker 2>I use little bits in like intermittently, and so I'm

688
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:37.280
<v Speaker 2>not here to say that xanax is bad or you

689
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:40.519
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't ever use it. But what I think happened with

690
00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:45.360
<v Speaker 2>Karen is she she's claimed that she got the prescription right,

691
00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:49.199
<v Speaker 2>and then you know she's mixing it with alcohol.

692
00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:51.119
<v Speaker 3>And then she.

693
00:37:51.079 --> 00:37:55.639
<v Speaker 1>Wasn't really saying that, Melissa really saying she's mixing with alcohol,

694
00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:57.079
<v Speaker 1>which obviously is what.

695
00:37:57.079 --> 00:38:01.519
<v Speaker 2>It was, well clearly, But I guess what I'm saying

696
00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:03.599
<v Speaker 2>to you and to everyone listening is there's a way

697
00:38:03.639 --> 00:38:05.760
<v Speaker 2>to use xanax's short term.

698
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:09.199
<v Speaker 3>Acutely for exactly what it is that you said. If

699
00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:11.400
<v Speaker 3>your nervous system.

700
00:38:11.079 --> 00:38:14.320
<v Speaker 2>Is jacked up and you literally are having panic in anxiety,

701
00:38:14.679 --> 00:38:17.719
<v Speaker 2>it can help calm your nervous system down. Beta blockers

702
00:38:17.719 --> 00:38:20.519
<v Speaker 2>are good for that too. But what happens is sometimes

703
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:23.840
<v Speaker 2>people get them prescribed and they don't know that they

704
00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:26.440
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't take them every day, because what will happen with

705
00:38:26.519 --> 00:38:29.519
<v Speaker 2>a benzodiazepine like that is you need more and more

706
00:38:29.559 --> 00:38:31.920
<v Speaker 2>and more to get the same effect. And so I've

707
00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:34.920
<v Speaker 2>had some people had to come into treatment because, let's

708
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:38.440
<v Speaker 2>say a PCP prescribed it, they were taking it every

709
00:38:38.519 --> 00:38:41.480
<v Speaker 2>day and it lost effectiveness, and then their body became

710
00:38:41.559 --> 00:38:43.559
<v Speaker 2>physiologically dependent upon it.

711
00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:46.480
<v Speaker 1>More correct, more correct.

712
00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:49.159
<v Speaker 2>So what you're talking about is the appropriate way to

713
00:38:49.239 --> 00:38:51.639
<v Speaker 2>use it. I use it appropriately too. If I'm having

714
00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:56.039
<v Speaker 2>a panic attack or you know, a moment where my

715
00:38:56.159 --> 00:38:58.760
<v Speaker 2>nervous system is jacked up, I will take a very

716
00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:02.320
<v Speaker 2>small dose of it temporarily. That's what it's used for.

717
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:07.480
<v Speaker 2>But Karen is just weaponizing. She's trying to use semantics,

718
00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:11.239
<v Speaker 2>which bothers me. And that's also how I can tell

719
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:14.480
<v Speaker 2>that she's not really doing the work. She's doing semantics

720
00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:18.639
<v Speaker 2>to kind of pick and choose her accountability and it's

721
00:39:18.760 --> 00:39:22.679
<v Speaker 2>just not it's just not flying. So but to be clear,

722
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:26.400
<v Speaker 2>that's why she couldn't make the statement because she would

723
00:39:26.440 --> 00:39:30.199
<v Speaker 2>have gotten sued for making false claims about antidepressants.

724
00:39:30.440 --> 00:39:33.039
<v Speaker 1>Can I just say, why couldn't she just say? You know,

725
00:39:33.159 --> 00:39:35.280
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to say specifically but it was a benzo.

726
00:39:35.559 --> 00:39:37.920
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to say specifically, but it was an SSRI.

727
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:40.679
<v Speaker 1>I don't know why she wouldn't say that, because it

728
00:39:40.760 --> 00:39:43.280
<v Speaker 1>just leads us to be like, it could have been this,

729
00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:44.400
<v Speaker 1>It could have been that, It could have been this,

730
00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:45.719
<v Speaker 1>it could have been heroin. I mean, you know what

731
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:47.119
<v Speaker 1>I mean, Like, why wouldn't she say?

732
00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:51.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think because she's she's The word that I'll

733
00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:54.280
<v Speaker 2>use is she's obfuse skating like it's one of my

734
00:39:54.280 --> 00:39:57.000
<v Speaker 2>favorite new words, which is like she's just trying to

735
00:39:57.119 --> 00:39:59.039
<v Speaker 2>hide her stuff from people?

736
00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:01.480
<v Speaker 1>Is it pain pills? Like did she have a back surgery?

737
00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:04.519
<v Speaker 1>And that we see this all the time. Why wouldn't

738
00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:07.519
<v Speaker 1>she say I got addicted. She didn't have to say

739
00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:10.639
<v Speaker 1>oxy cotone. She could say pain pills. She didn't have

740
00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:12.880
<v Speaker 1>to say xanax, she could say a benzo.

741
00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:15.920
<v Speaker 2>Right, because she's full of it, That's why. Because full

742
00:40:15.920 --> 00:40:19.039
<v Speaker 2>of that, and she wants to blame. She wants to

743
00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:22.519
<v Speaker 2>she wants anyone other than Karen Huger to be at

744
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:25.000
<v Speaker 2>fault for why she does what she does. But let

745
00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:28.760
<v Speaker 2>me be really clear about something. Karen Huger had an

746
00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:31.559
<v Speaker 2>alcohol addiction twenty years ago.

747
00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:32.800
<v Speaker 3>Right, she was.

748
00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:36.280
<v Speaker 2>Here's the thing about people, They will always tell on

749
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:39.559
<v Speaker 2>themselves if you know what to listen for. She said,

750
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:43.280
<v Speaker 2>twenty years ago, Raven and her son Brandon and Ray

751
00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:46.719
<v Speaker 2>were so concerned that she was an alcoholic, and she

752
00:40:46.840 --> 00:40:50.159
<v Speaker 2>even admitted that the rumors that Ashley shared at the

753
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:52.760
<v Speaker 2>reunion were true, that she would be a legal seafood,

754
00:40:53.039 --> 00:40:54.960
<v Speaker 2>that she would day drink and Ray would have to

755
00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:58.559
<v Speaker 2>pick her up. Okay, here's the thing, wo, if alcoholism

756
00:40:58.719 --> 00:41:04.320
<v Speaker 2>was your problem twenty years ago, alcoholism doesn't surprisingly remit

757
00:41:04.760 --> 00:41:08.679
<v Speaker 2>or go into remission or go away without blood, sweat

758
00:41:08.679 --> 00:41:09.239
<v Speaker 2>and tears.

759
00:41:09.639 --> 00:41:10.199
<v Speaker 3>It doesn't.

760
00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:14.039
<v Speaker 2>And so Karen told on herself in that moment, because

761
00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:17.199
<v Speaker 2>I was listening. If alcoholism was an issue for you

762
00:41:17.320 --> 00:41:19.960
<v Speaker 2>twenty years ago, it's certainly an issue for you now.

763
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:23.760
<v Speaker 2>You're just not comfortable noting that you want it to

764
00:41:23.800 --> 00:41:28.239
<v Speaker 2>be due to something a doctor gave you. And I'll

765
00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:30.239
<v Speaker 2>tie this up in a nice little bow. And the

766
00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:33.119
<v Speaker 2>reason why is if a doctor gave it to her,

767
00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:37.760
<v Speaker 2>then Karen Huger isn't responsible if it's drinking, and if

768
00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:41.320
<v Speaker 2>it's alcoholism, she's the only one responsible to blame.

769
00:41:41.679 --> 00:41:44.159
<v Speaker 1>And it called to her well.

770
00:41:44.199 --> 00:41:45.079
<v Speaker 3>She even said this.

771
00:41:45.159 --> 00:41:47.480
<v Speaker 2>In the interview, she did say to Andy, she said,

772
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:52.159
<v Speaker 2>I'm not as comfortable talking about alcohol because that's my decision.

773
00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:56.400
<v Speaker 2>But a doctor prescribing me this is more comfortable. And

774
00:41:56.440 --> 00:41:59.159
<v Speaker 2>this is why, because it gives her someone to blame

775
00:41:59.239 --> 00:42:03.119
<v Speaker 2>shift on. She can blame Shift on the word antidepressant

776
00:42:03.320 --> 00:42:06.599
<v Speaker 2>because there's enough people who aren't educated to say, oh, well,

777
00:42:06.599 --> 00:42:07.519
<v Speaker 2>maybe that is a thing.

778
00:42:07.639 --> 00:42:08.920
<v Speaker 3>I'm here to tell you it's not.

779
00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:12.480
<v Speaker 2>I've been on antidepressants for I don't know decades, and

780
00:42:12.519 --> 00:42:13.880
<v Speaker 2>I've never drunk.

781
00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:15.320
<v Speaker 3>I never drove drunk one time.

782
00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:19.400
<v Speaker 1>I know. Probably I'd say eighty percent of people in

783
00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:25.119
<v Speaker 1>my life are on some kind of something, and I don't.

784
00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:28.159
<v Speaker 1>They don't, I mean, the majority of them don't go

785
00:42:28.199 --> 00:42:29.960
<v Speaker 1>around drinking and driving, you know.

786
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:35.280
<v Speaker 2>Sure, And then you know, listen, there are comorbid you know,

787
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:39.280
<v Speaker 2>it's called dual diagnosis where people, and I would argue

788
00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:43.519
<v Speaker 2>most folks in addiction have some underlying mental health stuff, right,

789
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:45.480
<v Speaker 2>whether it's depression, anxiety.

790
00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:48.599
<v Speaker 1>Right, That's why why starts trying to.

791
00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:52.639
<v Speaker 2>Okay, you're trying to self medicate, because being human is hard,

792
00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:56.039
<v Speaker 2>and when you are, when you're experiencing these things and

793
00:42:56.079 --> 00:42:59.199
<v Speaker 2>you don't have a good treatment plan. People cannot tolerate

794
00:42:59.239 --> 00:43:02.159
<v Speaker 2>that and then they self medicate. So what dual diagnosis

795
00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:04.079
<v Speaker 2>says is that we have to focus on the mental

796
00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:08.239
<v Speaker 2>health stuff that led to all that or underlying it,

797
00:43:08.599 --> 00:43:11.559
<v Speaker 2>and we have to focus on the addictive part that drinking,

798
00:43:11.559 --> 00:43:12.719
<v Speaker 2>the drugs, whatever it is.

799
00:43:13.239 --> 00:43:17.679
<v Speaker 3>So Karen is just trying. She's she's she's doing half steps.

800
00:43:18.039 --> 00:43:20.320
<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm not sure if you guys are familiar

801
00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:22.000
<v Speaker 2>with this term, but I talk about the term a

802
00:43:22.039 --> 00:43:24.599
<v Speaker 2>thirteenth stepper, which is so.

803
00:43:27.800 --> 00:43:29.079
<v Speaker 3>A thirteenth stepper is.

804
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:33.119
<v Speaker 2>Someone who they come into the program, they have not

805
00:43:33.199 --> 00:43:36.639
<v Speaker 2>worked on themselves one iota, but they're trying to be

806
00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:42.079
<v Speaker 2>sponsors and mentor people and talk and give this grand

807
00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:45.320
<v Speaker 2>explanation of what, you know, how great they are. But

808
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:49.960
<v Speaker 2>really it's just all bs and that that's Karen. She

809
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:55.719
<v Speaker 2>is using young women to mentor as a way to

810
00:43:56.039 --> 00:44:01.400
<v Speaker 2>go around her own healing because helping others feels good.

811
00:44:02.119 --> 00:44:07.239
<v Speaker 2>And here's the thing, it appears helping people appears altruistic,

812
00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:10.960
<v Speaker 2>But Karen's not really helping people because she wants to help.

813
00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:14.719
<v Speaker 2>She was helping because it lessened her prison sentence, Like

814
00:44:14.800 --> 00:44:18.000
<v Speaker 2>she wasn't asked to run these meetings. It was a

815
00:44:18.119 --> 00:44:22.400
<v Speaker 2>part of her conditions to be released early. So it's like,

816
00:44:22.480 --> 00:44:24.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, Judge Judy had this saying like, don't be

817
00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:27.159
<v Speaker 2>on my leg and tell me it's raining. Like Karen's

818
00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:29.519
<v Speaker 2>being on her leg and being like, I'm sober, and

819
00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:33.440
<v Speaker 2>it's like, but you're not doing a girl, You're just not.

820
00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:37.360
<v Speaker 1>It was wild when she was like because she had

821
00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:41.519
<v Speaker 1>been in like a treatment program. So let's just say

822
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:45.239
<v Speaker 1>she gets the sentence, or before she gets the sentence,

823
00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:48.280
<v Speaker 1>she goes into a treatment program, she gets a NOO's job,

824
00:44:48.559 --> 00:44:50.679
<v Speaker 1>she goes to prison, like all these things happened at

825
00:44:50.679 --> 00:44:52.480
<v Speaker 1>the same time, and then she goes in there and

826
00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:54.199
<v Speaker 1>was like and now I'm the leader of the group.

827
00:44:55.559 --> 00:44:59.159
<v Speaker 1>You've been sober forty five days and now you're leading meetings.

828
00:45:00.599 --> 00:45:03.119
<v Speaker 1>There's probably people young women in that prison who have

829
00:45:03.159 --> 00:45:06.320
<v Speaker 1>a lot more sober time than she does, and probably

830
00:45:06.360 --> 00:45:08.199
<v Speaker 1>we get a lot more programs than she has.

831
00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:09.760
<v Speaker 3>I guarantee it.

832
00:45:09.920 --> 00:45:12.119
<v Speaker 2>And can I also give a little bit of Tea

833
00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:14.480
<v Speaker 2>in terms of like, well it's not Tea, but the

834
00:45:14.599 --> 00:45:19.960
<v Speaker 2>reason I think she prefers nakay. So there's different like

835
00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:23.519
<v Speaker 2>in the TOLSTA programs, NA is narcotics synonymous, in AA

836
00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:27.519
<v Speaker 2>is alcoholics anonymous. Okay, but people who are sober and

837
00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:29.639
<v Speaker 2>in recovery know that a drug is a drug is

838
00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:30.039
<v Speaker 2>a drug.

839
00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:31.760
<v Speaker 3>Okay, that's period.

840
00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:35.400
<v Speaker 2>But what Karen's trying to do is delineate because of

841
00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:38.639
<v Speaker 2>her own discomfort with what she was doing. But the

842
00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:42.239
<v Speaker 2>reason I believe she prefers NA is because typically, depending

843
00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:46.119
<v Speaker 2>on geographically where you live, NA tends to be younger

844
00:45:46.159 --> 00:45:54.320
<v Speaker 2>folks who are more suggestible, who are more in need

845
00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:58.000
<v Speaker 2>of maybe some mentoring, and I think Karen feels like

846
00:45:58.039 --> 00:46:02.800
<v Speaker 2>a mama hen among younger folks in AA. You have

847
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:05.360
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people who know that there's young there

848
00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:07.800
<v Speaker 2>are young people in AA, but they're also like, well

849
00:46:07.840 --> 00:46:10.960
<v Speaker 2>they call them like old heads. Yes, yes, yes right

850
00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:14.320
<v Speaker 2>where they're old timer people who have been sober thirty

851
00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:18.000
<v Speaker 2>forty years in AA. And the reason why I think

852
00:46:18.039 --> 00:46:20.239
<v Speaker 2>she doesn't like that it is not only she's just

853
00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:24.840
<v Speaker 2>uncomfortable with her alcohol use. She also doesn't want people

854
00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:27.280
<v Speaker 2>who know more than her trying to tell her to

855
00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:30.119
<v Speaker 2>call her out how she needs to hear. Yeah, younger

856
00:46:30.159 --> 00:46:32.199
<v Speaker 2>people aren't going to do that. But if you meet

857
00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:35.039
<v Speaker 2>an old timer in AA, he's going to spot your

858
00:46:35.079 --> 00:46:39.119
<v Speaker 2>shit immediately, immediately going to call you out on it,

859
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:42.239
<v Speaker 2>and you're not gonna like that. So that's also why

860
00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:43.599
<v Speaker 2>I think that is.

861
00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:46.079
<v Speaker 1>My husband used to go to a meeting around here

862
00:46:46.119 --> 00:46:50.760
<v Speaker 1>and everybody was real old, and he loved the phrase

863
00:46:51.079 --> 00:46:54.239
<v Speaker 1>that whoever has the most abridey, like this person's got

864
00:46:54.239 --> 00:46:56.679
<v Speaker 1>thirty years, this person's got twenty two years. You know,

865
00:46:56.800 --> 00:46:58.599
<v Speaker 1>at that time he had won two years. He's a

866
00:46:58.719 --> 00:47:01.079
<v Speaker 1>The person who had the most bridey was whoever woke

867
00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:05.840
<v Speaker 1>up earliest that day. And he was like so because

868
00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:10.679
<v Speaker 1>he was like, because the day's not over, lot, it's

869
00:47:10.719 --> 00:47:13.280
<v Speaker 1>going to bring It doesn't matter if you're thirty years sober,

870
00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:17.519
<v Speaker 1>we're doing it today, you know, right right, And it's

871
00:47:17.599 --> 00:47:20.400
<v Speaker 1>so all the AA talking and my brother in law

872
00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:23.239
<v Speaker 1>sober too, and my sister is, you know, twelve years

873
00:47:23.239 --> 00:47:25.679
<v Speaker 1>in alan On and they just do a lot in

874
00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:29.639
<v Speaker 1>their community. So I get a lot of the phrasing,

875
00:47:29.719 --> 00:47:32.840
<v Speaker 1>even more so from them from my husband. But every

876
00:47:32.880 --> 00:47:36.199
<v Speaker 1>so often my husband will will bring out a saying

877
00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:39.440
<v Speaker 1>about like about like stay in your hulu hou or whatever.

878
00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:41.079
<v Speaker 1>We're all like, we don't know what you're talking about,

879
00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:45.440
<v Speaker 1>but it is that it is if you go to

880
00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:47.400
<v Speaker 1>one of those meetings and somebody who's been in there

881
00:47:47.679 --> 00:47:51.000
<v Speaker 1>thirty five years sober and they see somebody coming in like, well,

882
00:47:51.039 --> 00:47:53.280
<v Speaker 1>my wife is so mean and I had to drink

883
00:47:53.320 --> 00:47:55.639
<v Speaker 1>because she's such a bit and she's making me come here,

884
00:47:55.880 --> 00:47:58.639
<v Speaker 1>they will not tolerate that you're in the wrong place.

885
00:47:59.079 --> 00:47:59.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah right.

886
00:47:59.800 --> 00:48:02.760
<v Speaker 2>The reason for that is because when it comes to

887
00:48:02.840 --> 00:48:05.679
<v Speaker 2>the disease of addiction, which is deadly and it wants

888
00:48:05.719 --> 00:48:10.000
<v Speaker 2>to kill you, there is no room for going back

889
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:12.679
<v Speaker 2>to fuck the term fucking around and finding out, there

890
00:48:12.760 --> 00:48:16.039
<v Speaker 2>is no room for that, Like Carl Radkey on Summer House,

891
00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:19.599
<v Speaker 2>when you lose someone to addiction, when you understand this

892
00:48:19.719 --> 00:48:24.079
<v Speaker 2>disease wants to kill you. The whole thing that gets

893
00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:28.519
<v Speaker 2>people sober and keeps them sober is rigorous honesty and

894
00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:33.119
<v Speaker 2>full and complete accountability. And what happens in the program

895
00:48:33.320 --> 00:48:35.880
<v Speaker 2>is they give you a cent. It's called different things,

896
00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:40.239
<v Speaker 2>but giving a responsible concern is part of what your

897
00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:44.440
<v Speaker 2>job is to help other people see their blind spots.

898
00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:44.760
<v Speaker 1>Right.

899
00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:47.719
<v Speaker 2>Healing is not for the faint of heart, and it's

900
00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:50.760
<v Speaker 2>not for people who have weak egos. To really heal,

901
00:48:51.079 --> 00:48:53.880
<v Speaker 2>you have to own your character defects. You have to

902
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:57.280
<v Speaker 2>be rigorously honest, and that means you have to do

903
00:48:57.320 --> 00:48:58.800
<v Speaker 2>that with yourself, and you have to do that with

904
00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:02.239
<v Speaker 2>other people. Other people cannot hear that. That is a

905
00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:03.360
<v Speaker 2>huge red flag for.

906
00:49:03.480 --> 00:49:05.440
<v Speaker 3>They're not ready. They just starn't ready.

907
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:07.920
<v Speaker 1>Let's meet a Carl Rakky because I'm not a summer

908
00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:10.960
<v Speaker 1>house any person. I know everybody. Well, I don't want

909
00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:13.480
<v Speaker 1>to hear about it. Okay, I don't watch it. I

910
00:49:13.480 --> 00:49:17.519
<v Speaker 1>don't care, so don't come at me. So, but I

911
00:49:17.559 --> 00:49:19.360
<v Speaker 1>do know the players. I don't know the game. So

912
00:49:19.400 --> 00:49:21.039
<v Speaker 1>I know Carl, I know who he is. I know

913
00:49:21.079 --> 00:49:23.880
<v Speaker 1>he's sober or whatever. Didn't you think it was interesting

914
00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:27.360
<v Speaker 1>because you were just talking about if you're an alcoholic

915
00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:29.880
<v Speaker 1>twenty years ago, you're still an alcoholic today. Didn't you

916
00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:33.159
<v Speaker 1>think it was interesting that Chrissy Tagan posted with Carl

917
00:49:33.239 --> 00:49:36.360
<v Speaker 1>Radkey saying he was like a mentor to her. Chrissy

918
00:49:36.440 --> 00:49:41.280
<v Speaker 1>Tagan posted, She's married to a guy who's almost got

919
00:49:41.320 --> 00:49:45.119
<v Speaker 1>an egot or does have an egot, right, and she

920
00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:47.679
<v Speaker 1>herself is, you know, very well known and famous and

921
00:49:47.719 --> 00:49:53.199
<v Speaker 1>written miny cooklicks and all this that Karl Radkey showed

922
00:49:53.239 --> 00:49:56.719
<v Speaker 1>her that because she had stopped drinking maybe five years ago,

923
00:49:57.400 --> 00:50:00.920
<v Speaker 1>but decided somewhere along the lines, it's okay, I could

924
00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:02.920
<v Speaker 1>have a glass of wine with my friends. And then

925
00:50:02.960 --> 00:50:05.199
<v Speaker 1>that became like is at five o'clock? And then that

926
00:50:05.239 --> 00:50:08.199
<v Speaker 1>became who cares, it's lunch, and then and I'm not

927
00:50:08.239 --> 00:50:10.239
<v Speaker 1>doing anything, and then you know, she says, and then

928
00:50:10.280 --> 00:50:12.880
<v Speaker 1>you slip back into it, which is I think exactly

929
00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:15.280
<v Speaker 1>what happened to Karen. She probably didn't drink heavily for

930
00:50:15.320 --> 00:50:18.199
<v Speaker 1>a long time and then was like, well, I'm on

931
00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:20.440
<v Speaker 1>the show, so it's fine, and then slowly is well,

932
00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:23.440
<v Speaker 1>you see the people several seasons ago calling her out

933
00:50:23.480 --> 00:50:25.239
<v Speaker 1>like she called me and she has no idea what

934
00:50:25.280 --> 00:50:29.840
<v Speaker 1>she said, and you know, and then for them to

935
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:32.960
<v Speaker 1>be like, no, she's been drinking like this for years

936
00:50:32.960 --> 00:50:36.079
<v Speaker 1>and years and years, and this is not her first EUI,

937
00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:41.119
<v Speaker 1>it's her fourth. It's her fourth alcohol related arrest. Andy,

938
00:50:41.239 --> 00:50:44.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, well, I will be pat and Dylan said

939
00:50:44.320 --> 00:50:47.039
<v Speaker 1>last week they think the reason she was and again

940
00:50:47.119 --> 00:50:49.239
<v Speaker 1>they had not seen the whole thing that they thought

941
00:50:49.239 --> 00:50:52.239
<v Speaker 1>the reason she was so adamant to not say alcoholic

942
00:50:53.119 --> 00:50:56.039
<v Speaker 1>and that alcohol calls to her or it doesn't, but

943
00:50:56.079 --> 00:50:58.400
<v Speaker 1>it was the pills that were the problem. They felt

944
00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:00.960
<v Speaker 1>it was because she wanted to be able to drink

945
00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:03.960
<v Speaker 1>on camera again without being judged.

946
00:51:04.719 --> 00:51:07.760
<v Speaker 3>I mean, listen, I think I don't.

947
00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:09.480
<v Speaker 1>I don't think she would ever do that. But I

948
00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:11.159
<v Speaker 1>thought that about Lui into.

949
00:51:11.639 --> 00:51:12.760
<v Speaker 3>Well, that's that's right.

950
00:51:13.039 --> 00:51:16.480
<v Speaker 2>And I think there's value to that perspective, is that

951
00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:24.320
<v Speaker 2>she's not she doesn't isn't ready for her life to

952
00:51:24.360 --> 00:51:26.440
<v Speaker 2>be as different as it needs to.

953
00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:27.559
<v Speaker 3>Be to be sober.

954
00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:30.440
<v Speaker 2>So I do I do think there's something to that.

955
00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:31.599
<v Speaker 3>I really do.

956
00:51:32.519 --> 00:51:34.840
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I guess she doesn't want to be judged,

957
00:51:34.840 --> 00:51:37.159
<v Speaker 2>but like it's not about judgment. It's just about like

958
00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:41.400
<v Speaker 2>being honest because we want Karen to survive and we

959
00:51:41.480 --> 00:51:44.239
<v Speaker 2>want other people to survive because it is a public

960
00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:46.360
<v Speaker 2>safety issue to be drinking and driving. But I mean,

961
00:51:46.360 --> 00:51:50.000
<v Speaker 2>that's an interesting that is an interesting theory. I just

962
00:51:50.119 --> 00:51:53.159
<v Speaker 2>I just think like denial and minimization. You know, when

963
00:51:53.159 --> 00:51:55.960
<v Speaker 2>it comes to addiction, there are what's called the motivational

964
00:51:56.000 --> 00:52:00.840
<v Speaker 2>stages of change and motivation to change. It's not linear,

965
00:52:00.960 --> 00:52:04.079
<v Speaker 2>it's cyclical, meaning you can be sober like Christy Teagan

966
00:52:04.199 --> 00:52:07.320
<v Speaker 2>for how many years, and then you can just denial

967
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:10.199
<v Speaker 2>and minimization creeps in right, and they call that the

968
00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:15.360
<v Speaker 2>sleeping tiger in the recovery space is that if you

969
00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:18.079
<v Speaker 2>sleep on your disease, it's going to come back, and

970
00:52:18.119 --> 00:52:20.920
<v Speaker 2>it's going to get you. And the only thing, the

971
00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:24.199
<v Speaker 2>only thing that prevents that is rigorous honesty from yourself

972
00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:28.360
<v Speaker 2>and from other people, because blind spots can't exist when

973
00:52:28.360 --> 00:52:32.239
<v Speaker 2>you have people around you giving you feedback about your behaviors.

974
00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:35.480
<v Speaker 2>But Karen doesn't want that, And so why doesn't she

975
00:52:35.559 --> 00:52:38.239
<v Speaker 2>want that? I think it's a million reasons. It's denial,

976
00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:41.559
<v Speaker 2>it's minimization. She's not ready for her life to be different.

977
00:52:41.840 --> 00:52:44.119
<v Speaker 2>She doesn't want to own her stuff. She wants it

978
00:52:44.159 --> 00:52:46.920
<v Speaker 2>to be someone else's fault. But most importantly, I do

979
00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:49.159
<v Speaker 2>think she wants to be back to being the grand dam.

980
00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:52.559
<v Speaker 2>She wants to pretend this all never happened and go

981
00:52:52.679 --> 00:52:55.559
<v Speaker 2>back to being on TV. And again that's a red

982
00:52:55.599 --> 00:52:59.280
<v Speaker 2>flag to me, considering like your priority should be you

983
00:52:59.679 --> 00:53:02.079
<v Speaker 2>and your her husband, because the one thing that we

984
00:53:02.159 --> 00:53:06.320
<v Speaker 2>found out from that interview is that Karen has been

985
00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:11.559
<v Speaker 2>miserable with Ray. Yeah, miserable. She called Mary Payne, she

986
00:53:11.679 --> 00:53:14.119
<v Speaker 2>called her home a tomb.

987
00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:15.960
<v Speaker 3>Do you understand?

988
00:53:16.320 --> 00:53:18.800
<v Speaker 2>She called her home a tomb.

989
00:53:19.400 --> 00:53:21.440
<v Speaker 1>And then she was like, and Ray and I have decided.

990
00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:23.760
<v Speaker 1>You know, if after this is all over it like

991
00:53:23.880 --> 00:53:25.519
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to be with him, like he's okay

992
00:53:25.599 --> 00:53:27.880
<v Speaker 1>with it, I'm like, go ahead and do it. Why

993
00:53:27.920 --> 00:53:31.719
<v Speaker 1>are you prolonging this? Just go ahead and live in

994
00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:33.639
<v Speaker 1>separate parts of the house if you can't afford to

995
00:53:33.639 --> 00:53:38.039
<v Speaker 1>have two different homes, Like I listen speaking of addiction,

996
00:53:38.719 --> 00:53:40.840
<v Speaker 1>because I know I don't have you for hours and hours,

997
00:53:40.880 --> 00:53:43.280
<v Speaker 1>because we could discuss this for hours and hours. Yes,

998
00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:45.360
<v Speaker 1>speaking of addiction, I do want to talk to you

999
00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:50.440
<v Speaker 1>about Southern charm because what I find very interesting is

1000
00:53:50.480 --> 00:53:55.199
<v Speaker 1>the craig of it all. Also fully saying to Austin,

1001
00:53:55.960 --> 00:53:58.079
<v Speaker 1>you don't understand what it's like to have an attic brain,

1002
00:53:58.280 --> 00:54:00.960
<v Speaker 1>Like I can't just have one drink now. Meanwhile, while

1003
00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:03.000
<v Speaker 1>he was saying this two seasons ago, over last season,

1004
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:05.480
<v Speaker 1>he's sitting with the bottle of Don Pierreon next to him,

1005
00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:09.119
<v Speaker 1>open a bottle, not not a glass, just a bottle,

1006
00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:12.800
<v Speaker 1>just from the bottle. But he's saying, you don't understand

1007
00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:14.960
<v Speaker 1>what it's like to be an addict. I can't go

1008
00:54:15.079 --> 00:54:18.400
<v Speaker 1>out all the time and have drinks because I'm an addict.

1009
00:54:18.480 --> 00:54:21.639
<v Speaker 1>I don't know when to stop. Excuse me, chug. So anyway,

1010
00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:25.840
<v Speaker 1>it was crazy, right. He explained he can't go out

1011
00:54:25.880 --> 00:54:29.639
<v Speaker 1>like that anymore because of he has an addictive personality

1012
00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:34.559
<v Speaker 1>this season, Like somebody pointed out, Austin was mad at

1013
00:54:34.599 --> 00:54:36.599
<v Speaker 1>him last season because he wasn't fun, it didn't go out,

1014
00:54:36.639 --> 00:54:38.480
<v Speaker 1>and Austin is mad at him this season because he

1015
00:54:38.519 --> 00:54:41.639
<v Speaker 1>is fun and going out. So but I think what

1016
00:54:41.679 --> 00:54:43.599
<v Speaker 1>Austin is saying is, man, you sat with me on

1017
00:54:43.639 --> 00:54:46.800
<v Speaker 1>the beach and gave me a heartfelt explanation that you're

1018
00:54:46.800 --> 00:54:50.280
<v Speaker 1>an addict, and now this season you're sloppy drunk all

1019
00:54:50.280 --> 00:54:52.239
<v Speaker 1>the time. And I'm not supposed to say anything as

1020
00:54:52.280 --> 00:54:54.719
<v Speaker 1>a friend. I'm not supposed to like, hey, man, are

1021
00:54:54.760 --> 00:54:57.760
<v Speaker 1>you okay? Like what are you doing? So what is

1022
00:54:57.800 --> 00:54:59.400
<v Speaker 1>your thought on that with Craig?

1023
00:55:00.119 --> 00:55:03.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, So my thought on that is that Austin

1024
00:55:03.920 --> 00:55:10.000
<v Speaker 2>is a thousand percent correct because he realized that Craig.

1025
00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:11.599
<v Speaker 3>Was manipulating him.

1026
00:55:11.920 --> 00:55:17.760
<v Speaker 2>Yes, because when you excuse me, when you cut someone

1027
00:55:17.800 --> 00:55:25.039
<v Speaker 2>off at the knees with a conversation and sorry, this

1028
00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:27.000
<v Speaker 2>sunlight just like poked through and I'm.

1029
00:55:26.960 --> 00:55:28.440
<v Speaker 3>Like also and I'm dark.

1030
00:55:28.960 --> 00:55:30.800
<v Speaker 1>Oh you guys were I'm watching on video and all

1031
00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:33.280
<v Speaker 1>of a sudden, I'm like, wow, didn't the clips just

1032
00:55:33.320 --> 00:55:34.519
<v Speaker 1>happen outside of your window?

1033
00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Literally, I podcast in the front of my house and

1034
00:55:37.519 --> 00:55:39.960
<v Speaker 2>we have this huge picture window. So for anyone watching

1035
00:55:39.960 --> 00:55:41.800
<v Speaker 2>the video, it's just like, we'll get dark and like,

1036
00:55:41.960 --> 00:55:44.599
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, it's it's wacky anyway.

1037
00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:45.239
<v Speaker 3>Sorry, if you're done.

1038
00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:47.480
<v Speaker 1>Really you're pretty though, because it makes those flowers behind

1039
00:55:47.519 --> 00:55:48.639
<v Speaker 1>you look like they're kind of blowing.

1040
00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:52.239
<v Speaker 3>It looks beautiful. Yeah, and I'm just like, okay.

1041
00:55:52.719 --> 00:55:55.800
<v Speaker 2>So I think that Austin was completely right because one

1042
00:55:55.800 --> 00:55:57.760
<v Speaker 2>thing that I said at the beginning of the season,

1043
00:55:58.119 --> 00:56:00.760
<v Speaker 2>I was like, wait a second. If Craig was saying

1044
00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:03.440
<v Speaker 2>last season that he was an addict and an alcoholic

1045
00:56:03.480 --> 00:56:06.519
<v Speaker 2>and now he's just drinking, then that means he's relapsed

1046
00:56:06.800 --> 00:56:08.239
<v Speaker 2>and people need to be.

1047
00:56:08.199 --> 00:56:09.440
<v Speaker 3>Way more concerned.

1048
00:56:10.039 --> 00:56:13.320
<v Speaker 2>That was what my brain said, and so very sweaty,

1049
00:56:14.119 --> 00:56:19.920
<v Speaker 2>oh my gosh, so lots of lots of physiological expressions

1050
00:56:19.920 --> 00:56:21.239
<v Speaker 2>of whatever it is that.

1051
00:56:21.239 --> 00:56:22.800
<v Speaker 3>He's doing, which is a concern.

1052
00:56:23.360 --> 00:56:25.440
<v Speaker 2>But I think that going back to what I was saying,

1053
00:56:25.639 --> 00:56:29.800
<v Speaker 2>Austin realized that Craig used that to manipulate him so

1054
00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:33.679
<v Speaker 2>that Craig could win the argument, and Austin didn't have

1055
00:56:33.719 --> 00:56:35.199
<v Speaker 2>a leg to stand right, what.

1056
00:56:35.119 --> 00:56:37.199
<v Speaker 1>Are you going to say with somebody says I'm an addict,

1057
00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:39.639
<v Speaker 1>I can't. Then the conversation's over. You have to be

1058
00:56:39.639 --> 00:56:41.760
<v Speaker 1>like and then he support let me support you.

1059
00:56:42.039 --> 00:56:42.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah right.

1060
00:56:42.920 --> 00:56:47.000
<v Speaker 2>He weaponized his stuff to manipulate and this season, Austin

1061
00:56:47.159 --> 00:56:50.039
<v Speaker 2>had every right to say, wait, wait, wait a second,

1062
00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:54.000
<v Speaker 2>All of a sudden, now you're not an addict anymore,

1063
00:56:54.039 --> 00:56:55.079
<v Speaker 2>You're just drinking.

1064
00:56:55.400 --> 00:56:59.440
<v Speaker 3>And what am I supposed to believe? Number one? Number two?

1065
00:57:00.440 --> 00:57:04.440
<v Speaker 2>I now realize that you use that because Craig cannot

1066
00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:08.920
<v Speaker 2>The reason why Austin and Craig have what Whitney called

1067
00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:11.880
<v Speaker 2>a circle jerk of acrimony, which I felt was like

1068
00:57:11.920 --> 00:57:15.360
<v Speaker 2>a really interesting choice of words for Whitney.

1069
00:57:15.519 --> 00:57:19.920
<v Speaker 1>Whitney's a poet. Come on now, circle that's beautiful.

1070
00:57:21.039 --> 00:57:23.719
<v Speaker 2>I was like, that is one of the most hilariously

1071
00:57:23.840 --> 00:57:27.840
<v Speaker 2>beautifully descriptive things that I've ever heard in my entire life.

1072
00:57:28.519 --> 00:57:31.760
<v Speaker 2>But the reason they have that is because they cannot

1073
00:57:32.480 --> 00:57:38.159
<v Speaker 2>resolve any conflict, because Craig is always like wanting to

1074
00:57:38.280 --> 00:57:42.159
<v Speaker 2>exit the conflict where he looks good, but there's nothing

1075
00:57:42.199 --> 00:57:47.480
<v Speaker 2>that's really resolved. And Austin, Now, listen, Austin is fully

1076
00:57:47.559 --> 00:57:49.920
<v Speaker 2>a part of this, right, he plays his own role.

1077
00:57:50.039 --> 00:57:53.400
<v Speaker 2>He can be provocative to Craig and all these other things.

1078
00:57:53.639 --> 00:57:56.119
<v Speaker 2>He has his own stuff. But I think in this

1079
00:57:56.280 --> 00:58:00.079
<v Speaker 2>instance he has every right to be concerned, and I

1080
00:57:59.800 --> 00:58:04.000
<v Speaker 2>think the fans should be more concerned. If someone is

1081
00:58:04.039 --> 00:58:06.719
<v Speaker 2>saying they were sober and now they're drunk every night,

1082
00:58:07.159 --> 00:58:09.840
<v Speaker 2>that's a concern for me because that's what we call

1083
00:58:09.880 --> 00:58:10.599
<v Speaker 2>a relapse.

1084
00:58:10.840 --> 00:58:14.000
<v Speaker 1>Yes, it's a relapse. And even like Shep, who has

1085
00:58:14.039 --> 00:58:16.559
<v Speaker 1>had his own problems and god knows I've I've I

1086
00:58:17.400 --> 00:58:20.559
<v Speaker 1>personally have been felt up by chef at a Bravo

1087
00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:24.960
<v Speaker 1>con just handled them. He's just real sloppy.

1088
00:58:26.159 --> 00:58:30.280
<v Speaker 2>However, hold on, Mary Payne, are you are you serious?

1089
00:58:30.559 --> 00:58:31.760
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, grabbed your.

1090
00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:36.159
<v Speaker 1>Boob, not on purpose, but he's very tall and his

1091
00:58:36.320 --> 00:58:38.639
<v Speaker 1>arm around me, and I'm like, okay.

1092
00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:43.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh, oh okay, Well I still don't love that, but anyway,

1093
00:58:43.079 --> 00:58:45.719
<v Speaker 2>I'll send you some photo evidence, so.

1094
00:58:45.800 --> 00:58:50.400
<v Speaker 3>Please, I would love that's very drunk. Let's yeah, no,

1095
00:58:50.639 --> 00:58:51.960
<v Speaker 3>very very.

1096
00:58:51.800 --> 00:58:54.079
<v Speaker 1>Very gross and drunk, right, and it has been very,

1097
00:58:54.159 --> 00:58:57.039
<v Speaker 1>very gross and drunk and He's done it at ravocn

1098
00:58:57.280 --> 00:58:59.559
<v Speaker 1>four years in a row, did it this year too.

1099
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:02.519
<v Speaker 1>So even though when he got in trouble for it

1100
00:59:02.559 --> 00:59:05.400
<v Speaker 1>two years ago, he was like, now I'm just drinking

1101
00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:09.599
<v Speaker 1>beer now. As you know, addicts do this. They try

1102
00:59:09.639 --> 00:59:12.440
<v Speaker 1>to say, Okay, I'm only going to drink on the weekends.

1103
00:59:13.079 --> 00:59:15.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm only going to drink beer. I only drink after five.

1104
00:59:16.400 --> 00:59:17.960
<v Speaker 1>My husband's think used to be like, I'm going to

1105
00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:20.679
<v Speaker 1>stop drinking at ten, so at nine to fifty five

1106
00:59:20.719 --> 00:59:22.760
<v Speaker 1>before himself drink this big but you know what I mean,

1107
00:59:22.800 --> 00:59:25.599
<v Speaker 1>like you make it. So that's what we've seen Shef do.

1108
00:59:25.880 --> 00:59:28.880
<v Speaker 1>Shef has never said I'm an alcoholic. I have a

1109
00:59:28.960 --> 00:59:31.800
<v Speaker 1>drinking problem. I need help. He has said I'm trying

1110
00:59:31.800 --> 00:59:35.320
<v Speaker 1>to better myself and get my drinking under control. Smart

1111
00:59:35.719 --> 00:59:39.199
<v Speaker 1>because he can still drink if he wants. Craig has

1112
00:59:39.239 --> 00:59:43.360
<v Speaker 1>said I'm an addict. I am an addict. He said

1113
00:59:43.400 --> 00:59:46.119
<v Speaker 1>those words. He did what So what does he think

1114
00:59:46.199 --> 00:59:49.599
<v Speaker 1>is going to happen when he's drinking on camera? Same

1115
00:59:49.599 --> 00:59:51.480
<v Speaker 1>as Luann? Right, what do you think is gonna happen?

1116
00:59:51.639 --> 00:59:53.199
<v Speaker 1>We're going to fucking call you out for it?

1117
00:59:53.760 --> 00:59:53.960
<v Speaker 2>Right.

1118
00:59:54.039 --> 00:59:55.440
<v Speaker 3>But the thing is that Craig.

1119
00:59:55.639 --> 00:59:58.119
<v Speaker 2>The one thing that he's really bad at is being

1120
00:59:58.159 --> 01:00:02.639
<v Speaker 2>impeccable with his word. Like Craig does not know how

1121
01:00:02.679 --> 01:00:07.960
<v Speaker 2>to be truthful, I really truly believe, and you know, Kate, yes,

1122
01:00:08.400 --> 01:00:12.039
<v Speaker 2>right right, So he he is not impeccable with his word,

1123
01:00:12.119 --> 01:00:15.159
<v Speaker 2>meaning like he just throws whatever out there, and then

1124
01:00:15.199 --> 01:00:18.400
<v Speaker 2>he gets angry that people hold him accountable for the

1125
01:00:18.440 --> 01:00:21.519
<v Speaker 2>words that he says, because that's the world he lives in.

1126
01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:24.440
<v Speaker 2>That whatever he wants to say is Lucy Goosey, that

1127
01:00:24.559 --> 01:00:25.679
<v Speaker 2>whatever he feels.

1128
01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:26.039
<v Speaker 3>In the moment.

1129
01:00:26.440 --> 01:00:28.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, he's very much like Kyle Cook from Summer House,

1130
01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:30.559
<v Speaker 2>which I know you don't watch, and I'm not going

1131
01:00:30.599 --> 01:00:33.360
<v Speaker 2>to judge you for that, but there. You know, there's

1132
01:00:33.519 --> 01:00:38.280
<v Speaker 2>this term in recovery which I talk a lot about

1133
01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:40.519
<v Speaker 2>in my podcast, which is called king baby.

1134
01:00:40.920 --> 01:00:42.840
<v Speaker 3>I don't know if you've ever heard that term, Mary

1135
01:00:42.880 --> 01:00:46.599
<v Speaker 3>Pain king baby. So king baby is someone who.

1136
01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:54.280
<v Speaker 2>Is struggling with addiction and they believe that every the

1137
01:00:54.320 --> 01:00:57.440
<v Speaker 2>word world should bend to their will and everything should

1138
01:00:57.480 --> 01:01:01.239
<v Speaker 2>go their way and it's all about them. And you know,

1139
01:01:01.400 --> 01:01:04.119
<v Speaker 2>Craig and Kyle Cooke to me are king babies in

1140
01:01:04.159 --> 01:01:07.199
<v Speaker 2>that like just because you have big feelings, doesn't mean

1141
01:01:07.239 --> 01:01:09.880
<v Speaker 2>that gives you the right to hurt other people or

1142
01:01:09.920 --> 01:01:12.880
<v Speaker 2>wound other people, or take it out on other people,

1143
01:01:13.280 --> 01:01:16.119
<v Speaker 2>like they are responsible for how they feel. It's not

1144
01:01:16.159 --> 01:01:20.199
<v Speaker 2>Amanda Batula's fault, Kyle's wife, it's not Austin's fault.

1145
01:01:20.320 --> 01:01:24.440
<v Speaker 3>It's Craig. It's him. He needs to focus on that Jack.

1146
01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:26.679
<v Speaker 1>This is a lot like Jack's too. Everything is everybody

1147
01:01:26.679 --> 01:01:27.880
<v Speaker 1>else's fault, right.

1148
01:01:27.920 --> 01:01:29.400
<v Speaker 3>That's that's exactly right.

1149
01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:34.760
<v Speaker 2>And with Craig, I think he was using Page and

1150
01:01:34.880 --> 01:01:37.719
<v Speaker 2>he uses his other girlfriends to keep him sober and

1151
01:01:37.760 --> 01:01:40.320
<v Speaker 2>to keep him in check, and then as soon as

1152
01:01:40.400 --> 01:01:44.960
<v Speaker 2>that check system goes away, then he's unhinged and he

1153
01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:46.599
<v Speaker 2>doesn't want to be accountable for that.

1154
01:01:46.679 --> 01:01:49.760
<v Speaker 3>Well, that's up to him, right, like he can't.

1155
01:01:49.880 --> 01:01:52.440
<v Speaker 2>You know, he used Page I think as like bowling

1156
01:01:52.480 --> 01:01:56.880
<v Speaker 2>bumper guards, so he didn't keep throwing it.

1157
01:01:56.920 --> 01:01:59.360
<v Speaker 1>But didn't he act so terrible at Colin Amanda's wedding

1158
01:01:59.400 --> 01:01:59.960
<v Speaker 1>he got kicked out.

1159
01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:04.639
<v Speaker 2>He did, Yes, he absolutely did. So I'm grateful for

1160
01:02:04.679 --> 01:02:06.159
<v Speaker 2>her that she kind of figured out.

1161
01:02:06.519 --> 01:02:07.159
<v Speaker 3>She didn't.

1162
01:02:07.280 --> 01:02:10.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't think she wanted to be his his bumper

1163
01:02:10.320 --> 01:02:14.719
<v Speaker 2>guards anymore. We don't want to have to teach our partners,

1164
01:02:14.760 --> 01:02:15.840
<v Speaker 2>like how to be an adult.

1165
01:02:15.880 --> 01:02:19.960
<v Speaker 3>That's not that's not a sexy thing. No, that's not

1166
01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:22.920
<v Speaker 3>a fun thing. That's not something that we're like, yes,

1167
01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:23.599
<v Speaker 3>let's do it.

1168
01:02:23.639 --> 01:02:25.400
<v Speaker 2>I want to teach my partner how to be a man.

1169
01:02:25.960 --> 01:02:27.480
<v Speaker 3>No, just be one.

1170
01:02:27.920 --> 01:02:30.519
<v Speaker 1>No, just you can't fix anybody, you guys, Like, that's

1171
01:02:30.599 --> 01:02:34.000
<v Speaker 1>the lesson, like that the people, the people are who

1172
01:02:34.000 --> 01:02:36.199
<v Speaker 1>they are. My husband is the same person that he

1173
01:02:36.320 --> 01:02:38.320
<v Speaker 1>was when I Mary met him when I was in

1174
01:02:38.360 --> 01:02:41.039
<v Speaker 1>my twenties. He's the same guy. He's sober now, but

1175
01:02:41.079 --> 01:02:43.679
<v Speaker 1>he's the same guy, you know what I mean, right, Yeah,

1176
01:02:43.760 --> 01:02:46.039
<v Speaker 1>I can't fix him. He had to fix himself, so

1177
01:02:46.400 --> 01:02:51.000
<v Speaker 1>I god knows, I really gave it a good try.

1178
01:02:51.079 --> 01:02:52.639
<v Speaker 3>Well, you know, Mary pain.

1179
01:02:52.760 --> 01:02:56.559
<v Speaker 2>They say that addiction is a family disease and when

1180
01:02:56.599 --> 01:02:58.719
<v Speaker 2>we grow up, you know, I grew up with addiction

1181
01:02:58.800 --> 01:02:59.480
<v Speaker 2>in my family.

1182
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:02.840
<v Speaker 3>We are sometimes bred to.

1183
01:03:02.880 --> 01:03:07.119
<v Speaker 1>Be that's okay, you got something your.

1184
01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:09.159
<v Speaker 3>Throat, yeah, and I don't have water.

1185
01:03:10.679 --> 01:03:14.559
<v Speaker 2>We are sometimes bread to be depending on how we

1186
01:03:14.760 --> 01:03:18.480
<v Speaker 2>grew up to be codependent. You know, Listen, I loved

1187
01:03:18.840 --> 01:03:22.159
<v Speaker 2>to pick terrible men and try to convince them to

1188
01:03:22.199 --> 01:03:25.480
<v Speaker 2>be better for me. That was exclusively in fact, what

1189
01:03:25.559 --> 01:03:28.159
<v Speaker 2>I used to do. So there's no shame in that game.

1190
01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:30.079
<v Speaker 2>And that's why I listen. That's why I love allan

1191
01:03:30.119 --> 01:03:33.440
<v Speaker 2>On because I think, you know, for an ellen On

1192
01:03:33.559 --> 01:03:35.840
<v Speaker 2>for folks who don't know, is for people who love

1193
01:03:35.960 --> 01:03:38.840
<v Speaker 2>someone with an addiction that they don't have an addiction.

1194
01:03:38.599 --> 01:03:41.519
<v Speaker 3>Because truly you do.

1195
01:03:41.639 --> 01:03:44.960
<v Speaker 2>When you're with someone, you have to learn how to

1196
01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:48.119
<v Speaker 2>not make them your emotional thermostat right, because it's so

1197
01:03:48.360 --> 01:03:52.760
<v Speaker 2>easy to have that happen. And so you know, everyone

1198
01:03:52.840 --> 01:03:56.159
<v Speaker 2>has work to do, so, you know, congratulations to you

1199
01:03:56.280 --> 01:03:57.800
<v Speaker 2>all for doing the work.

1200
01:03:58.119 --> 01:04:00.840
<v Speaker 1>Congratulations to Page for realizing this is not my life.

1201
01:04:00.880 --> 01:04:02.239
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to do this with this man.

1202
01:04:02.840 --> 01:04:04.519
<v Speaker 3>That's right God, but it is God.

1203
01:04:04.559 --> 01:04:07.840
<v Speaker 1>We have so we could literally do a twelve hour

1204
01:04:08.039 --> 01:04:11.159
<v Speaker 1>series on attics on Bravo.

1205
01:04:12.079 --> 01:04:17.239
<v Speaker 2>We should, maybe we should.

1206
01:04:17.599 --> 01:04:20.199
<v Speaker 1>We didn't get to talk about Beverly Hills speaking to addicts,

1207
01:04:20.239 --> 01:04:25.079
<v Speaker 1>but that's okay because you know, as the Super Bowl

1208
01:04:25.159 --> 01:04:27.960
<v Speaker 1>messed up my TLC schedule, it also messed up our

1209
01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:30.719
<v Speaker 1>Bravo schedule, and the Olympics is also put in a

1210
01:04:30.760 --> 01:04:34.599
<v Speaker 1>cramp in our Bravo. But luckily we had enough to

1211
01:04:34.679 --> 01:04:38.599
<v Speaker 1>talk about with Craig Karen and who else did we

1212
01:04:38.639 --> 01:04:40.320
<v Speaker 1>start with? Jill Zarn?

1213
01:04:40.559 --> 01:04:42.400
<v Speaker 2>Jill Zaren, Jill Yarn.

1214
01:04:42.760 --> 01:04:48.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, God bless Jill Zarin. Come on, lady. Anyway, we

1215
01:04:48.559 --> 01:04:51.599
<v Speaker 1>didn't solve Nancy Guthrie either. We're recording this on Wednesday.

1216
01:04:51.800 --> 01:04:55.440
<v Speaker 1>I've been on the case for eleven days. I'm actively

1217
01:04:55.519 --> 01:04:58.320
<v Speaker 1>trying to solve it. I told you I didn't want

1218
01:04:58.320 --> 01:05:00.559
<v Speaker 1>to go to bed last night for I fear it

1219
01:05:00.559 --> 01:05:02.840
<v Speaker 1>would get solved while I was asleep. But I woke

1220
01:05:02.920 --> 01:05:07.760
<v Speaker 1>up on a Wednesday it wasn't solved. Maybe Thursday's our day. Everybody,

1221
01:05:08.920 --> 01:05:15.760
<v Speaker 1>Let's listen to Nancy home. Guys, everybody be listening. Our

1222
01:05:15.800 --> 01:05:19.559
<v Speaker 1>friend Kate Casey has been having an FBI guy on

1223
01:05:19.960 --> 01:05:23.360
<v Speaker 1>been talking about he now does private security and he's

1224
01:05:23.440 --> 01:05:28.400
<v Speaker 1>talking a lot about in his uh time working with

1225
01:05:28.440 --> 01:05:31.320
<v Speaker 1>kidnappers and stuff with the FBI. So that's been very interesting.

1226
01:05:31.360 --> 01:05:34.039
<v Speaker 1>Of course, you can always listen to Emily D. Baker

1227
01:05:34.119 --> 01:05:36.440
<v Speaker 1>and then you could also just scroll through Instagram Brian

1228
01:05:36.559 --> 01:05:38.559
<v Speaker 1>Inton E n t I n He's a guy that's

1229
01:05:38.559 --> 01:05:41.119
<v Speaker 1>on the scene. These are places you can follow ants

1230
01:05:41.119 --> 01:05:42.599
<v Speaker 1>to go through if you're also trying to solve it

1231
01:05:42.679 --> 01:05:46.199
<v Speaker 1>like we are. Please Lord by Thursday, let the read

1232
01:05:46.199 --> 01:05:46.639
<v Speaker 1>an answer.

1233
01:05:47.480 --> 01:05:50.519
<v Speaker 2>Honestly, I mean, these poor people are just you know,

1234
01:05:50.599 --> 01:05:52.840
<v Speaker 2>and listen, we don't have time for this. But there's

1235
01:05:52.840 --> 01:05:56.360
<v Speaker 2>a whole psychology to the kidnappers and why they do

1236
01:05:56.440 --> 01:05:59.079
<v Speaker 2>what they do and some of the psychological profiles.

1237
01:05:59.159 --> 01:06:03.360
<v Speaker 1>Okay, once once it is solved, and the and the

1238
01:06:03.400 --> 01:06:07.760
<v Speaker 1>Netflix documentaries and the works, once it is solved and

1239
01:06:07.800 --> 01:06:09.639
<v Speaker 1>they get who it is and they figure out why

1240
01:06:09.679 --> 01:06:12.119
<v Speaker 1>and if she's alive and if not, and when all

1241
01:06:12.159 --> 01:06:14.320
<v Speaker 1>that kind of starts to come out, come back, so

1242
01:06:14.360 --> 01:06:15.199
<v Speaker 1>we can discuss that.

1243
01:06:15.760 --> 01:06:17.480
<v Speaker 3>One thousand percent. Yes, okay, And.

1244
01:06:17.400 --> 01:06:19.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna be on your show on your show Net.

1245
01:06:20.079 --> 01:06:21.320
<v Speaker 1>It's gonna air next week.

1246
01:06:21.920 --> 01:06:25.719
<v Speaker 2>Yep, we'll air next Tuesday. Okay, great, So check out

1247
01:06:25.840 --> 01:06:29.320
<v Speaker 2>Your bish Therapist. Podcast is free and available everywhere. I

1248
01:06:29.400 --> 01:06:32.440
<v Speaker 2>will have Mary Payin back on my pod which will

1249
01:06:32.440 --> 01:06:35.719
<v Speaker 2>air on Tuesday. And I'm very excited and hope maybe

1250
01:06:35.719 --> 01:06:37.880
<v Speaker 2>by then we'll have more information and we can talk

1251
01:06:37.920 --> 01:06:38.960
<v Speaker 2>a little bit more about it.

1252
01:06:39.239 --> 01:06:41.079
<v Speaker 3>So very excited. Yeah, very excited.

1253
01:06:41.079 --> 01:06:44.519
<v Speaker 1>Everybody follow Melissa. She has great, great, great insights. You

1254
01:06:44.519 --> 01:06:48.440
<v Speaker 1>can follow her on Instagram at my Your bish Therapist.

1255
01:06:48.480 --> 01:06:52.599
<v Speaker 1>Your therapis b s H instead of bitch your bish therapist,

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<v Speaker 1>and please follow me at Pink Shad Pod. Okay, bye

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<v Speaker 1>bye

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<v Speaker 2>P