WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:28.160 Weirding Way Media. 2 00:00:46.840 --> 00:00:49.679 Hello, and welcome to the Film Youmentaries podcast. This is 3 00:00:49.759 --> 00:00:53.000 Jamie Benning and this is episode one hundred and forty six, 4 00:00:53.719 --> 00:00:56.840 And in this one, I'm chatting to Don Bee's former 5 00:00:56.880 --> 00:01:00.719 Lucasfilm archivist and special effects artists who worked at Magic 6 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:04.640 as well during his stay at Lucasfilm and during a 7 00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:08.359 pretty pivotal time. Actually, Don's story is a great one 8 00:01:08.359 --> 00:01:10.359 because it cuts across so many different corners of the 9 00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:14.840 lukesfilm world, from discovering filmmaking through classic monster movies to 10 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:17.480 working on the fly, to becoming the guy responsible for 11 00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:21.000 digging through and in some cases saving the original Star 12 00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:24.719 Wars archive. We get into his early fascination with makeup effects, 13 00:01:24.760 --> 00:01:27.359 how he blagged his way into mechanical design, what it 14 00:01:27.439 --> 00:01:30.480 was like arriving in California in the mid eighties, and 15 00:01:30.519 --> 00:01:32.519 how a job that was supposed to last two weeks 16 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:36.319 turned into ten years inside Lucasfilm. There are some brilliant 17 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:40.200 stories in here, including finding a very rare Darth Vader 18 00:01:40.239 --> 00:01:43.640 helmet at the bottom of crate, listening to some original 19 00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:46.840 recordings of Irvin Kirshner on the set of the Empire Stracks, 20 00:01:46.879 --> 00:01:50.560 back working with Anthony Daniels and Peter Mayhew on commercials 21 00:01:51.079 --> 00:01:53.519 and even suiting up as a few characters for the 22 00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:56.439 special editions. So if you've ever wondered what it was 23 00:01:56.480 --> 00:02:00.079 like working at Lucasfilm during that time, this is a 24 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:03.840 really fascinating look behind the curtain. So here's my conversation 25 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:05.519 with Dombe's and I'll be back at the end for 26 00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:26.520 a bit more jabbering on. Don great to have you 27 00:02:26.639 --> 00:02:30.120 on the podcast. We had a few time, a few 28 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:33.199 attempts at this, but we finally managed it. So I 29 00:02:33.319 --> 00:02:35.560 first became aware of you, as I'm sure many did, 30 00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:39.120 was and that was on the laser disc the tour 31 00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:42.039 of the archives, and I was like, who's this guy? 32 00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:43.120 How's he got that job? 33 00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:43.439 You know? 34 00:02:43.599 --> 00:02:46.680 But I want to go all the way back. I 35 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:50.360 believe you grew up in Chicago. I just want to 36 00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:53.919 kind of know how the sort of the film world 37 00:02:54.159 --> 00:02:56.919 was first brought to your attention when you were a kid. 38 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:03.560 The earliest memory I have told story my my beginning 39 00:03:04.159 --> 00:03:07.199 in the film business was when I was six years 40 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:11.199 old and a cousin, a much older cousin. I was 41 00:03:11.199 --> 00:03:14.479 the youngest of the kids. I was like, way younger 42 00:03:14.479 --> 00:03:18.479 than everybody else. She thought she'd tried to scare me 43 00:03:18.520 --> 00:03:21.479 by showing me the nineteen thirty one force Carlo Frankenstein 44 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:27.199 and yeah, yeah, and uh and it did the exact opposite. 45 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:30.280 I was enthralled with it, you know, and and and 46 00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:35.199 what what amazed me the most was was the makeup. 47 00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:38.159 You know, how did why does that guy look different? 48 00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:38.960 How did they do that? 49 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:39.199 You know? 50 00:03:39.560 --> 00:03:41.680 You know, I didn't understand any of it at that age, 51 00:03:42.039 --> 00:03:43.800 and you know, I would ask my mother and she 52 00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:46.479 would just say, well, it was makeup, and you know, 53 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:50.159 and to me, makeup was you know what she put on, 54 00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:55.360 you know, yea lipstick and and stuff like that. So 55 00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:57.960 so I think she was the one that brought me home, 56 00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:00.919 found me a copy of a famous Monsters of film, 57 00:04:01.159 --> 00:04:05.520 you Phil y Ackerman's and and so that started my 58 00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:09.560 love not only of Frankenstein and and that, but also 59 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:12.759 the film film world. And fortunately my mother was a 60 00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:15.400 huge uh and my father for that matter, but my 61 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:17.959 mother more so was a huge film fan. So she 62 00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:21.040 they loved watching movies and we'd go to the cinema 63 00:04:21.279 --> 00:04:25.240 all the time. And I very my very first recollection 64 00:04:25.399 --> 00:04:27.920 was Mary Poppins saying Mary Poppins when it first opened, 65 00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:29.879 So I must have only been about four or five 66 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:30.759 or something like that. 67 00:04:31.639 --> 00:04:33.519 And that's got a combination of so many things, and 68 00:04:33.560 --> 00:04:37.759 it hasn't it. I mean there's paintings, there's animation, it's musical. 69 00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:40.040 I mean there's it's quite an onslaught of a movie 70 00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:41.759 that as for a young kid, you kind of it's 71 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:43.519 a fantastical world, isn't it too? 72 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:48.720 Yeah? Absolutely? And and and that that started that love 73 00:04:48.759 --> 00:04:52.879 of fantasy films. And you know Ray Harryhausen and Willis 74 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:55.920 O'Brien and you know John Chambers with Planting of the 75 00:04:55.920 --> 00:04:57.879 Apes that I became a huge plant of the Apes fan. 76 00:04:58.279 --> 00:05:01.319 I was really into Gorilla's you know, and Apes and 77 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:04.439 everything because of those movies and anything that had that 78 00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:07.279 in it, you know, I would try to find and watch. 79 00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:11.199 And there was a show on Saturday nights in Chicago 80 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:14.040 called Creature Features, which is so common in a lot 81 00:05:14.040 --> 00:05:17.279 of areas. They had their own versions of that and 82 00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:19.639 they would just show the old universal horror films. So 83 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:22.279 I would, you know, bribe my parents to let me 84 00:05:22.279 --> 00:05:23.920 stay up, you know, because it started at like ten 85 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:28.879 thirty at night and watch watch those movies. So again 86 00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:32.360 became an officianado of all the old universal horror films, 87 00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:37.079 and so it just was that was it and it 88 00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:41.560 and like I said, it sparked an interest in the process. 89 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:45.759 So anytime there was like a behind the scenes or anything, 90 00:05:45.879 --> 00:05:47.800 you know, that might be on TV, because occasionally they 91 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:53.759 did that, I would watch those and watch that art, 92 00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:57.079 you know, that how people were making the film itself. 93 00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:04.120 And so, like I said, it led along. The nineteen 94 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:07.720 seventy seven was just a huge year for me because 95 00:06:07.759 --> 00:06:11.600 I had turned sixteen here in the United States, at 96 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:13.680 least at that time, you could get your driver's license 97 00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:20.040 at sixteen, and I got my first job, and that 98 00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:22.160 all happened within a matter of months. And then of 99 00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:25.560 course Star Wars came out, and to. 100 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:27.439 Know that it was coming by the way, had you 101 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:29.600 they've been pressed building up to that in the magazines 102 00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:30.800 and things that you look, you. 103 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:33.720 Know, I remember seeing the one thing I do remember 104 00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:39.160 seeing was the Time magazine that had although they got 105 00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:41.480 bumped from the from the front cover, but I remember 106 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:43.759 seeing the Time magazine article. For some reason, we had 107 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:50.480 a subscription of Time magazine. And then Starlog had their 108 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:54.279 issue seven I believe it was, and that's when I 109 00:06:54.319 --> 00:06:58.399 became aware of Starlog. And then I do remember seeing 110 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:01.639 a trailer or two on TV. But what got me 111 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:03.879 interested in it was it had a big ape in it. 112 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:05.759 Because I was in the apes, you know at that point, 113 00:07:05.800 --> 00:07:07.720 so it was Chewbacca. Right, It's like, well, I gotta 114 00:07:07.720 --> 00:07:09.279 go see this. It's got an ape in it, right, 115 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:12.040 So so I went to see it and it just 116 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:15.399 it knocked my socks off the. 117 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:15.959 The you know. 118 00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:20.000 It was a very that evening. Was a couple of 119 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:23.319 friends we went. We I didn't have access to a car, 120 00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:25.800 so we had to get driven there by friends of 121 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:31.279 their family. And we we got to the screening that 122 00:07:31.480 --> 00:07:32.600 was I think it was supposed to be like a 123 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:35.040 four thirty screening. We got at four fifteen while it 124 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:37.360 was sold out by that point, you know, and the 125 00:07:37.399 --> 00:07:41.439 line was stretched around the around the theater, so we 126 00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:43.519 had to wait till the next screening, which was at 127 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:45.839 six thirty or something like that. So, and it was 128 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:47.959 a Sunday, I remember that very clearly. It was at 129 00:07:47.959 --> 00:07:51.399 a mall, and the mall was closed because it was Sunday, 130 00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:55.199 it closed early by that point, so we couldn't do anything, 131 00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:58.759 so we just hung out in the lobby and so 132 00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:01.279 then you know, we wait, didn'tuntil the movie came out. 133 00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:04.199 There was this onslaught of as as people we were 134 00:08:04.199 --> 00:08:07.480 trying to get into the theater and and you know, 135 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:09.959 then it opened and I just wasn't, like I said, 136 00:08:10.040 --> 00:08:13.920 enthralled with with what I saw. And later that year, 137 00:08:14.519 --> 00:08:17.480 so that was I actually didn't see Star Wars. You know, 138 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:20.160 right away it came out in May or so here. 139 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:23.920 I didn't see it until there's there's probably July, late June, 140 00:08:23.959 --> 00:08:27.439 early July that I saw it. But later that year, 141 00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:30.920 in August, I was working this first job I got. 142 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:34.000 I was working at an amusement park in Chicago, outside 143 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:36.960 of Chicago, and it was an indoor amusement park. It 144 00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:39.360 was the first indoor amusement park, and it was called 145 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:42.519 Old Chicago, and they had rides and you know, carnival 146 00:08:42.600 --> 00:08:44.720 rides and carnival games and everything. And I was one 147 00:08:44.759 --> 00:08:47.960 of the carnival game attendees and you know, I take 148 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:49.840 the money and give you the balls to knock over 149 00:08:49.879 --> 00:08:55.759 the clowns and stuff. And they came to film a 150 00:08:55.799 --> 00:08:57.679 movie there. It was called The Fury, was Brian De 151 00:08:57.759 --> 00:09:02.559 Palma's movie with Andrew Stevens and Kirk Douglas and Amy Irving, 152 00:09:02.639 --> 00:09:07.519 and it was his follow up from Carrie, and so 153 00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:12.000 I had unfettered access to the to the work location 154 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:14.679 because I was an employee either and so I would 155 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:18.440 just follow around the crew, you know, I would just 156 00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:22.799 watch them film, and I particularly got really friendly with 157 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:25.600 the effects crew because what they were going to do 158 00:09:25.759 --> 00:09:28.399 is in the in the course of the story, the 159 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:33.039 Andrew Stevens plays this character with telekinetic abilities and he 160 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:38.440 sees a bunch of Arabic men that because he blames 161 00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:42.240 them for kidnapping his father, killing his father, which didn't happen, 162 00:09:42.279 --> 00:09:46.879 but anyway, he has a vendetta against him, and they're 163 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:49.559 they're on a ride and he puts the ride through 164 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:55.360 a window of the restaurant, and so I got to 165 00:09:55.399 --> 00:09:57.399 watch them rig that I got to watch and the 166 00:09:57.399 --> 00:09:59.480 guy that actually was running was the head of the 167 00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:03.080 effects apartment, was a guy named A. D. Flowers, who 168 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:05.759 apparently I think he went back to Wizard of Oz, 169 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:09.639 but his more previous was uh uh. The credits had 170 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:13.840 been Tiring, Inferno Beside and Adventure to to Tour, you know, 171 00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:17.000 all movies that I was like big fans of and yeah, 172 00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:20.200 and and like, wow, this is really cool. And then 173 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:22.039 I got to watch because I was also in the 174 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:24.440 makeup I want I saw that the makeup man was 175 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:30.320 putting this on on Andrew Stevemens forehead, This throbbing vein appliance, 176 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:33.240 which I found out much much later was either made 177 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:35.240 by Dix. I think it was Dick Smith or Rick Baker, 178 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:37.919 but I think it was Dick Dick Smith that that 179 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:40.600 made the points. And I'm like, oh, you know, I 180 00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:42.759 got to so I got to meet that makeup artist 181 00:10:42.840 --> 00:10:45.600 and I found out later it was William Tuttle, who 182 00:10:45.639 --> 00:10:49.639 did Seven Faces of Doctor Lao and Time Machine and everything, 183 00:10:50.440 --> 00:10:54.360 so so I you know, I like, I was just like, okay, 184 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:56.320 this seals that I got to do this kind of 185 00:10:56.320 --> 00:11:00.000 thing for the living. And that's that started that journey. 186 00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:03.759 So wow, that's the I mean, you didn't have a chance, really, 187 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:05.759 did you. It was all coming at you from all angles. 188 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:06.840 It was all fate. Yeah. 189 00:11:06.879 --> 00:11:09.159 I was like yeah, yeah, But then how do you 190 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:12.360 go from you know, being in Chicago, which isn't necessarily 191 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:16.440 a big film town, to then getting into the film 192 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:18.159 industry itself. I mean, you said you were interested in 193 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:20.840 the makeups, and stuff. Were you making stuff yourself? Were 194 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:22.600 you trying to make eight masks and things? 195 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:26.080 Oh? Definitely, yeah, yeah, And I would any any like 196 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:28.320 willing friend that would sit for me, you know, for 197 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:31.080 my crude life casting or crude sculptures and stuff like. 198 00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:33.559 I remember one guy when I were taking the makeup 199 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:38.399 off a lot, he lost part of his eyebrow. But yeah, 200 00:11:38.440 --> 00:11:40.679 it was just it was just experimenting with that stuff. 201 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:42.960 Dick Smith had came out with a handbook I think 202 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:45.720 it was published by the same publisher that did Famous 203 00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:47.960 Sponsors of film Land, and he came out with a 204 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:50.360 handbook on how to do makeup with kind of things 205 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:53.080 you could find around the house, more type of stuff, 206 00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:56.840 you know, gelatine and cotton and you know, you had 207 00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:00.399 to get some makeup supplies. But and so I played 208 00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:02.840 with all those and learned about, you know, where you 209 00:12:02.840 --> 00:12:08.200 can get fake hair and things like that. So I 210 00:12:08.279 --> 00:12:11.039 was definitely playing around with that. And yeah, you're right, 211 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:14.000 Chicago didn't have much of a film scene at that point. 212 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:19.399 And then so I got into a theater. I did 213 00:12:19.480 --> 00:12:21.679 the theater in high school, and then I got into 214 00:12:21.799 --> 00:12:27.320 community theater in Chicago, and did you know, started doing 215 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:29.759 that kind of work and at least let out a 216 00:12:29.799 --> 00:12:32.600 creative side of me while I, you know, was trying 217 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:35.919 to build up portfolios of stuff. And I did set 218 00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:38.039 design and did props, I did I did a little 219 00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:40.799 bit of acting, and you know, I did kind of everything. 220 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:44.440 And and then my brother, who, like I said, is 221 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:46.360 older than much older than me. He's a he's a 222 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:53.000 pediatric surgeon. And he tells me this one day. He said, 223 00:12:53.159 --> 00:12:56.720 told me about this patient he had that whose son 224 00:12:56.840 --> 00:13:00.320 was really into makeup, and maybe we should get together. 225 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:03.840 So I, you know, we connected. And his son's name 226 00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:07.919 is Keith Edmeyer. And Keith was this wonder kid of 227 00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:12.799 a sculptor, you know, he was. He had been corresponding 228 00:13:12.799 --> 00:13:15.960 with Dick Smith. He had been in touch. I think 229 00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:19.679 he went with Rick Baker at that point. And and 230 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:23.440 so the two of us started doing projects together. He 231 00:13:23.480 --> 00:13:25.759 was still in high school, I was. He he's I 232 00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:27.960 guess he was about five or six years younger than me. 233 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:30.200 So he was still in high school. So he had 234 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:31.799 like a couple of high school projects that he was 235 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:34.480 doing that I would help him out with. I remember, 236 00:13:34.519 --> 00:13:37.799 they did this really high value production of Jesus Christ 237 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:42.399 Superstar and and we're you know, they were having blood 238 00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:46.639 effects and stuff. So it was it was, you know, 239 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:49.200 we we got to do a lot of fun stuff together. 240 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:54.159 And and then in uh we did a couple he 241 00:13:54.360 --> 00:13:56.279 helped me out with a couple of shows. We did 242 00:13:56.360 --> 00:13:58.960 a stage production of Frankenstein and he did the makeup 243 00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:04.039 for that, and and then he left to go work 244 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:09.600 with Rick Baker down in Los Angeles, and and then 245 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:11.240 he was down there a couple of years. I kept 246 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:14.639 in touch with him, and then he when one of 247 00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:18.639 the times we were talking, he mentioned, oh, yeah, there's 248 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:22.279 a company up in northern California that's looking for people. 249 00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:26.080 They're working on this remake of The Fly. And so 250 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:29.159 I put my portfolio in, which at that point was 251 00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:31.720 just heavily makeup stuff. But the one thing I had 252 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:35.200 done when I would when Star Wars came out was 253 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:37.279 I made my own full size R two D two 254 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:38.399 radio controlled R two. 255 00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:41.159 D two from the prints that you could get. 256 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:45.159 No from I scaled up. I did have those, but 257 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:47.600 that was only one elevation of R two or I 258 00:14:47.679 --> 00:14:49.279 had a couple only a couple of shots in there 259 00:14:49.399 --> 00:14:53.240 of that. But what it did have. What it did 260 00:14:53.240 --> 00:14:56.519 have was the model kit of our time, which wasn't 261 00:14:57.039 --> 00:14:59.799 I found out many years later it wasn't terribly accurate, 262 00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:03.879 but it's still was enough to you know, I figured, yeah, 263 00:15:04.120 --> 00:15:06.600 I guessed at what the scale would be roughly, and 264 00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:10.759 you know, did the math and you know, fixed it 265 00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:14.360 that did it that way. And so that was in 266 00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:17.039 my portfolio, just to you know, just to round out 267 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:19.679 my portfolio. But my portfolio was, like I said, mainly 268 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:24.519 makeup heavy. And so the company was Chris Wayliss Incorporated 269 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:28.039 c w I and Chris you know, I sent my 270 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:31.000 portfolio in and you know, here I thought I was 271 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:32.919 going to be the next great makeup artist, you know, 272 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:35.480 up there with Dick Smith and Rick Baker and all that. 273 00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:39.039 And and he wasn't interested in my sculptures or makeup 274 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:40.960 at all, he says, But he says, I see this, 275 00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:42.720 uh r two D two you did? He says, so 276 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:45.399 you do mechanical design, and and I already knew at 277 00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:47.600 that point just say yes, you know, yeah, sure, yeah 278 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:51.279 you know, and and he he says, oh yeah, I 279 00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:53.399 said yeah, yeah, oh yeah, yeah I do yeah, And 280 00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:55.320 at which I kind of did. I mean, I did, 281 00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:57.600 you know, had to learn all that stuff for to 282 00:15:57.679 --> 00:15:58.320 make it art two. 283 00:15:58.639 --> 00:15:59.960 But you're like twenty this. 284 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:03.200 I was twenty four. 285 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:04.879 I think it was okay, it was. Yeah, it was 286 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:06.120 sort of early eighties, wasn't it. 287 00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:13.759 Yeah yeah, And and so uh he said, uh, he says, 288 00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:15.399 so you know how to use a mill and a lathe? 289 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:18.320 And I said yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And I didn't 290 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:20.559 know what a mill was. I knew what a lathe was, 291 00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:23.639 but I didn't know what a mill was. And so 292 00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:26.639 a week or so goes by, and then I got 293 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:28.639 a call saying they wanted me to start on such 294 00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:31.759 and such a day. So I packed up everything, moved 295 00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:35.639 out to California, and and and then they've been out 296 00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:38.679 here ever since. So yeah, so I started on the 297 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:43.519 Fly and again doing mechanical design, and that's that's kind 298 00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:44.559 of how I get it. And then you know, you 299 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:47.279 meet people, you know, yeah, it was only fly up 300 00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:48.759 Perio at that time. It was a small community. 301 00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:52.360 Yeah yeah, So on the Fly then described to me 302 00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:56.200 a particular sequence or shot you worked on that. 303 00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:58.960 Well, it's funny because a lot of yeah, a lot 304 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:02.360 of the stuff I've initially worked on was all stuff 305 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:05.160 that got cut. It's in the special edition DVDs and 306 00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:07.240 stuff like that. But there was a sequence there was 307 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:10.440 a special edition. I didn't think, yeah, well that's it's 308 00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:13.279 it's it's like the Blu ray that had all the 309 00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:15.640 cut scenes in it, and right, not so much a 310 00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:19.799 special edition, but it has the cuts. There's a sequence 311 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:27.000 where he tries to reverse the results of the fly 312 00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:32.440 and he takes a cat and an ape and puts 313 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:35.039 them in and blends them together, and with the idea 314 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:40.720 that he would unblend them. And so we made this 315 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:44.359 monkey cat. We call the monkey Cat puppet. So I 316 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:46.680 made that. I worked on that. I made, well, there 317 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:50.240 were two versions of it. There was the free the 318 00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:53.839 one that like wobbled across the floor, pulled on the string, 319 00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:56.240 it looked like it was running. That's the one I 320 00:17:56.319 --> 00:17:58.279 mainly worked on. Then there was another one that was 321 00:17:58.279 --> 00:18:03.799 more animatronic, that had articulated faces and stuff, and I 322 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:05.319 worked a little bit on that one, but I mainly 323 00:18:05.319 --> 00:18:08.319 worked on the other one. And then after that, he 324 00:18:09.559 --> 00:18:13.000 beats the really brutal. He beats the thing to death 325 00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:16.880 with a stick, which the hands were David Kronerberg's hands 326 00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:24.400 when he beat it. And then Brundle is distraught because 327 00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:27.160 it wasn't working. So he climbs up on the roof 328 00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:32.319 and there's this remnant of this scene that's still in 329 00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:36.200 the film where he keeps scratching his side. He's constantly 330 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:38.720 doing this in the film, and it turns out when 331 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:41.480 he gets to the roof and he's looking over the 332 00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:45.799 city and everything, it's starting to bother him more and more. 333 00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:48.359 And a little fly arm pops out. So I made that. 334 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:50.240 I made the fly arm that comes off, and then 335 00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:54.799 he gnaws it off with his mouth, and then and 336 00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:57.440 he throws it aside and it twitches, so that again, 337 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:00.640 that was something else I made. And uh, and then 338 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:06.039 at the end he he has uh he the the 339 00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:10.680 the other guys staff is I think it is. He 340 00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:15.039 does the fly vomit and this, and and acid eats 341 00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:19.039 his uh, his foot and he a tone comes out 342 00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:21.640 and he slurps that up. I made the tongue that 343 00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:23.680 that came out. So that's all the stuff that didn't 344 00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:25.799 make it in the film. And then oh, and then 345 00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:27.920 there was actually a stop motion sequence that I worked 346 00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:30.720 on that we did after film shot, which I can 347 00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:35.559 get into. But the the thing that I did work 348 00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:37.319 on that did make it into the film is a 349 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:39.960 big thing. He turns into at the end. And so 350 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:43.119 there was a there's a group of us led by 351 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:45.839 John Berg, who did the Walkers from Empire Strikes Back, 352 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:48.720 who is to this day. He was a mentor at 353 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:51.720 that time and then he's become Yeah, he's a really 354 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:55.920 good friend of mine, you know. And uh and we 355 00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:58.359 we we've stayed in touch all these years, and I 356 00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:00.759 just talked to him a couple of weeks ago. But 357 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:06.599 John and I and a few other people worked on that, 358 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:08.559 so we got to do all this mechanical design. John 359 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:10.960 ended upuppetearing on said, I didn't go to location. It 360 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:14.319 was shot in Toronto, but I helped John with all 361 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:17.279 that stuff. And then there was walking legs. There was 362 00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:19.960 a shot you know where these legs were walking. I 363 00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:23.759 helped build those. But then, like I said, the movie 364 00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:26.759 was finished rapping and there was a sequence at the 365 00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:31.200 end of the film that that they were trying to 366 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:33.480 figure out how to do, and they decided to stop motion. 367 00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:38.799 And what the sequence was is that Geena Davis wakes 368 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:43.680 up from a from a dream, you know, shot like 369 00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:46.400 a nightmare, and she sits up right. And again this 370 00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:48.559 is on all these cut scenes that you can see 371 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:52.440 these uh, and she wakes bolts up upright from this dream, 372 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:56.440 and and and the guy laying next to his status, 373 00:20:56.839 --> 00:20:59.799 the guy that got his hand in his foot melted, 374 00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:05.480 and and she's obviously pregnant. She's really obviously pregnant. And 375 00:21:05.480 --> 00:21:07.480 and he's like, what's wrong. She's I had that dream 376 00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:09.759 again and about the baby, you know, the maggot baby 377 00:21:09.799 --> 00:21:13.119 that she had earlier in the film. And he says, well, 378 00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:15.319 don't worry, you know, we that we got rid of 379 00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:18.079 that baby. This one's ours or something. So she lays 380 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:21.279 back down, closes her eyes, and then the camera flies along, 381 00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:24.400 and in the distance is a branch with a cocoon 382 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:28.039 hanging down. A crystalis hanging down from it, and the fly. 383 00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:32.359 The camera flies along and and comes up onto the 384 00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:35.559 cocoon and the cocoon and shakes and breaks, and the 385 00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:38.720 sides split off, and these butterfly wings unfolding its human 386 00:21:38.759 --> 00:21:42.039 baby with butterfly wings, and it crawls up to the 387 00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:44.200 top of the branch and you know, kind of dries 388 00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:46.519 its wings, flaps its wings and dries and and then 389 00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:49.960 dives off and flies off and and and the camera 390 00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:52.720 and fade out. And that was how the original movie 391 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:58.440 was supposed to endow, and so they they decided to 392 00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:01.319 do it stop motion, and on Berg being a stop 393 00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:05.279 motion animator, he was, he was, and he wasn't up 394 00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:07.240 for it. Uh, he went not so much. He wasn't 395 00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:09.440 up for it. He he had kind of given up 396 00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:13.359 stop motion after after Empire Strikes Back. It had taken 397 00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:16.279 so much out of him, and you know, he he 398 00:22:16.519 --> 00:22:19.519 just like he was not at a place where he 399 00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:21.759 really wanted to do something like this, but out of 400 00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:24.960 deference to his good friendship with Chris Wayliss and everything, 401 00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:27.680