WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:03.879 Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is 2 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:05.679 not intended for all audiences. 3 00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:08.519 Listener discretion is advised. 4 00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:20.000 A man man should never be count when it comes 5 00:00:20.039 --> 00:00:21.679 to a Female's never. 6 00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:22.079 Been a man. 7 00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:25.879 Come take a load off, put your feet up, and 8 00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:29.199 listen to some murder. What a stupid thing to say. 9 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:33.560 This is season thirteen, episode three, and thirty eight of 10 00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:36.719 Sword and Scales show that reveals it the worst monsters 11 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:55.960 are real. If you're a fan of true crime, I 12 00:00:55.960 --> 00:00:58.799 invite you to check out our brand new YouTube channel 13 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:02.159 where you could subscribe and the opposite way you can 14 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:05.400 on our website. See on our website you can subscribe 15 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:08.359 for ten bucks for audio and then add video for 16 00:01:08.439 --> 00:01:11.400 another ten bucks. On top of that. On YouTube you 17 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:16.000 can start with video and add audio, so you know, 18 00:01:16.079 --> 00:01:18.920 take your pick. This is just going to complicate things, 19 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:47.560 isn't it. Oh well, fuck my life. It's just after 20 00:01:47.719 --> 00:01:53.079 midnight in twenty nineteen, during the summer solstice, the longest 21 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:58.359 day of the year. This isn't some mumbo jumbo New 22 00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:02.920 age crap. It's when the sun is furthest from the equator, 23 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:06.519 and it's a time when some say the veil between 24 00:02:06.560 --> 00:02:10.759 this dimension and the others is the thinnest. Okay, so 25 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:15.000 maybe there is a little quote unquote New age wisdom. 26 00:02:15.479 --> 00:02:19.520 The most important point, though, is that it's Ohio, the 27 00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:22.719 state that's becoming quite popular around here for some reason. 28 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:28.319 So it's June twenty first in East Cleveland. Believe it 29 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:32.080 or not, there are posh areas in Cleveland so that 30 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:35.240 some of you savages can pretend to be people. This 31 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:40.439 isn't one of them. It's not a picturesque skyline by 32 00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:44.599 the lake or the downtown area lit up with nightlife. 33 00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:49.599 It's colin Wood, a working class neighborhood that feels like 34 00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:53.680 it's part of a bygone era, part of the Rust Belt. 35 00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:58.479 The houses are small and modest, but nice enough, and 36 00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:01.840 the lawns are mote. There's just enough space in the 37 00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:09.039 backyard for a barbecue. Ah Americana, a small white Cape 38 00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:13.719 cod style home bases a narrow street called Chickasaw Avenue. 39 00:03:14.599 --> 00:03:19.199 It's a mild but humid evening. No wind is blowing, 40 00:03:19.719 --> 00:03:24.520 and it's dark. Windows stay open in most homes and 41 00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:29.479 the people inside are asleep, the fans humming in the background. 42 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:33.120 But on this street, as June twenty first turns to 43 00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:38.280 the twenty second. Something bad is happening than I. 44 00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:41.840 Want one to special shoopini police fire ems. 45 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:45.319 Oh we just got stabbed more chickensaw as. 46 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:49.360 I'm sorry, I said, we just got sad? 47 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:51.439 Who just got that? 48 00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:56.319 The call almost sounded like a hoax. The child calling 49 00:03:56.360 --> 00:04:00.000 in was so calm and said she lived on chicken 50 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:03.319 and Saw Avenue. But this was no joke. 51 00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:07.199 What's your address? Where you are? 52 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:10.719 What? What's the address? 53 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:12.360 The complete address? 54 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:15.840 You don't know you're on? What street? 55 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:19.439 Chickens about? 56 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:21.319 Are you a yuquid? 57 00:04:22.279 --> 00:04:22.319 No? 58 00:04:22.519 --> 00:04:23.399 Cleveland, Ohio. 59 00:04:24.439 --> 00:04:26.399 You may not have caught it, but the little girl 60 00:04:26.439 --> 00:04:29.639 said she was about to pass out. She was trying 61 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:32.759 her hardest to stay alert and get the street names right. 62 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:37.040 In this part of Cleveland, the streets seem to have 63 00:04:37.160 --> 00:04:38.720 Native American names. 64 00:04:39.240 --> 00:04:43.680 And you're on Chickasaw Yeah. Do you know another street nearby? 65 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:45.279 Oh? 66 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:52.680 No, I'm living Site one Trocky, You're own turkey? 67 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:54.480 What trophy? 68 00:04:55.680 --> 00:04:59.680 What she was trying to say was Cherokee. No to parents, 69 00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:02.120 make sure that your kids know where they live and 70 00:05:02.199 --> 00:05:05.839 how to pronounce the street names. That's a small safety 71 00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:08.720 tip that rivals all of the can goods and toilet 72 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:12.199 paper you hoard in your Cape cod summer home. Yeah, 73 00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:13.199 I know my audience. 74 00:05:13.879 --> 00:05:15.480 Okay, who got stabbed? Honey? 75 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:19.800 Like by who don't be here? 76 00:05:22.360 --> 00:05:26.480 Okay, I'm gonna get you over to EMS. Okay, yeah, 77 00:05:27.319 --> 00:05:28.680 don't hang up. How old are you? 78 00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:31.879 Okay, don't hang up? 79 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:33.480 Okay, Okay. 80 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:43.560 The dispatch operator told the EMS responder she had a 81 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:46.000 ten year old who had a knife for me. It 82 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:49.079 was hard to tell if his response was disbelief or 83 00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:55.120 mere frustration. I mean, this is Cleveland. Sadly, it's probably 84 00:05:55.160 --> 00:05:57.920 not the first time a kid called in about being stabbed. 85 00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:00.759 This place truly is a shithole. 86 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:04.720 Okay are you still. 87 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:06.199 Yeah? 88 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:07.480 I'm not to back out. 89 00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:09.680 Okay, Okay, she doesn't. 90 00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:11.040 She says she's on a. 91 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:11.800 Street claws. 92 00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:15.600 The corner whip. 93 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:16.879 She is not. 94 00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:29.279 She just says she's on a street cause sugar, she 95 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:31.040 met her and her cousin got that. 96 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:33.079 Say. 97 00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:38.439 Was her cousin older than her? 98 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:44.160 By this time, the polite little girl who was stabbed 99 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:48.560 and trying not to pass out was getting frustrated. You 100 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:51.399 can hear her in the background, desperately pleading for help. 101 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:55.160 She was probably wondering when the questions would stop and 102 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:59.759 an ambulance would arrive. The victims were two ten year 103 00:06:59.800 --> 00:07:03.959 old cousins who managed to escape outside. They were making 104 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:06.680 their way to a neighbor's house, but all the time 105 00:07:06.759 --> 00:07:11.319 struggling just to stay alive. Thank god, some kind people 106 00:07:11.399 --> 00:07:14.439 in the next street over were still up and looking 107 00:07:14.439 --> 00:07:16.720 out their window when they heard crying. 108 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:19.240 Number one, that's just the st. 109 00:07:22.519 --> 00:07:23.560 It's a brother theater. 110 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:25.560 What's what's your address? 111 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:26.800 Address? 112 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:27.240 One night? 113 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:31.519 Once you cheared and she really bad, she's coming in 114 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:31.959 my house. 115 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:33.720 Sole, but. 116 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:39.759 Cut the door. 117 00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:44.240 Imagine that you're minding your own business, and suddenly you 118 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:49.079 hear little kids crying outside. You're like, what's that? You 119 00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:53.600 get up to see two blood soaked girls staggering towards 120 00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:57.120 your house? These days? Would you even let them in? 121 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:02.199 I mean, be honest, that's some the shining bullshit right there. 122 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:05.759 Some of you would probably slam the door shut, no doubt. 123 00:08:06.040 --> 00:08:07.800 She knocked on my door and say that she's still 124 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:09.959 the bleeding to death over the clothes full of blood? 125 00:08:10.439 --> 00:08:11.360 Who's bleeding in that? 126 00:08:12.160 --> 00:08:13.680 The two little girls? 127 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:14.279 Okay? 128 00:08:14.439 --> 00:08:15.839 And then you grow can girly talk? 129 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:16.399 Yes? 130 00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:18.480 Okay, So let I ask you to my question. Answer 131 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:19.720 that I can tell you what to do these questions. 132 00:08:19.720 --> 00:08:20.680 They're gonna help me help them? 133 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:21.160 Okay. 134 00:08:21.319 --> 00:08:24.079 How old are okay? You look like they're about moving. 135 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:25.240 Twelve threele than. 136 00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:25.839 Twelve years old. 137 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:28.639 I'm as a move. And are they in wait? 138 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:31.560 Yeah, they're covered in blood? 139 00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:34.200 Okay, and litten careful. I want to tell you how 140 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:36.120 to stop the bleeding. Let'ten careful to make sure we 141 00:08:36.200 --> 00:08:36.720 do it correct? 142 00:08:36.759 --> 00:08:40.480 Okay, sounds like a plan, right, But what do you 143 00:08:40.519 --> 00:08:43.600 do if you can't tell where the blood's coming from? 144 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:46.240 So I need you to get a good mood. 145 00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:46.919 All over? 146 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:52.360 Okay, it's all over? Okay. Is a burger's done there 147 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:53.000 by the one. 148 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:53.519 I stabbed him? 149 00:08:54.759 --> 00:08:55.360 No? 150 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:57.480 No, no, I'll paying. 151 00:08:57.480 --> 00:09:00.200 And is there any serious bleeding yet? 152 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:01.039 That's curious bleeding? 153 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:03.000 Okay? Are they completely in there? Are they going out 154 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:04.159 of it unconscious? 155 00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:04.799 Yes? 156 00:09:04.919 --> 00:09:08.159 The sea of curd yes, okay, I'm giving this information 157 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:11.159 to the dispatch. Stand in line. Don't hang up? Okay, 158 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:13.200 And you said there is more than one won't correct? 159 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:15.320 Yes, we're still over. 160 00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:17.799 They got good and they're living in my house in 161 00:09:17.799 --> 00:09:19.080 my four year and they're bleeding. 162 00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:19.639 Okay. 163 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:20.679 Health is on the way. 164 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:24.399 It always seems to take forever for an ambulance to arrive, 165 00:09:25.159 --> 00:09:29.120 and the questions from nine one one operators are never ending. 166 00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:33.480 The truth is that the response time varies obviously depending 167 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:36.759 on where you live, but in urban areas the average 168 00:09:36.799 --> 00:09:40.120 time is only about five to eight minutes, but those 169 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:43.159 few minutes can feel like forever. 170 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:48.200 All right, shut the door, you see Okay? 171 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:52.360 Rights you okay, you're living? Were talking. 172 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:54.360 My one is going to take them to give years. 173 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:58.200 They're coming right now, the fire apartment and the paramedics 174 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:01.519 get there on the way. 175 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:05.440 The excitement was almost too much for this lady. She 176 00:10:05.559 --> 00:10:06.879 started having her own issues. 177 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:08.200 I got asthma. 178 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:09.399 My bleeding is beauty. 179 00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:12.639 Okay, do you have a haler? 180 00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:13.279 She can take? 181 00:10:17.159 --> 00:10:19.840 Despite her own problems, this woman wasn't going to let 182 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:24.639 two little girls slip into unconsciousness. I mean, if I 183 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:27.240 needed somebody to bring me back, I'd want this lady. 184 00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:31.720 She goes hard, hi way a bright. 185 00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:36.000 As the woman in the house is on the phone 186 00:10:36.039 --> 00:10:40.440 with nine one one, her boyfriend comes back. He sees 187 00:10:40.519 --> 00:10:42.360 the kids bleeding and crying. 188 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:52.720 On Hello, get the honey. 189 00:10:56.759 --> 00:11:01.120 Hello, you guys, are we are right? 190 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:04.039 We own Cherokee one nine six one two Cherokee On 191 00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:05.879 when these kids have been stabbed up. 192 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:09.399 Okay, give me give me that address again, one nine 193 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:10.879 six one two Cherokee. 194 00:11:12.799 --> 00:11:15.799 Who am I speaking to? Mister mn and police? 195 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:19.919 Hurry up, please, these these girls has been stabbed bad. 196 00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:27.399 Come back your babies, I think doesn't find that. 197 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:31.200 Ain't nobody gonna mess with y'all. Oh my goodness, come on, 198 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:34.840 Oh my goodness, come on, baby, come on. 199 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:36.360 Can't get up. 200 00:11:36.879 --> 00:11:39.519 The little girls confirmed that it was a cousin who 201 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:43.559 stabbed them, and she's afraid he'll find them that when 202 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:46.080 this guy's around, I mean, would you fuck with them? 203 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:50.600 I wouldn't. Weekly. She tells him she can't get up. 204 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:51.919 Open that door. 205 00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:54.759 This girl's been stabbed up bad. 206 00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:58.200 Okay, that's the address where they're gonna be. The one 207 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:02.720 nine six twelve. That one took one to dare to 208 00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:07.039 hurry up. Oh my fucking goodness. 209 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:12.360 Okay, you got your front pay? Yeah, but he all said, 210 00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:15.279 right there, Oh my fucking goodness, this girl is tabbed 211 00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:15.799 a real. 212 00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:18.639 Bad guess you know where to park the way? 213 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:20.600 Yeah? 214 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:22.320 They were uness where. 215 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:26.039 What a person going to tab? 216 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:27.440 They said, they're looking for him. 217 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:34.440 Let me do this please, he said. 218 00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:36.200 They were the persons looking for me. 219 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:44.279 The person job they said they looking for them. Oh boy, 220 00:12:45.320 --> 00:12:48.720 these gentlemen seem ready to carry out their own investigation, 221 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:54.840 but police wanted a name. The little girls were scared 222 00:12:55.039 --> 00:12:58.360 and going in and out of awareness. It was hard 223 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:02.519 to get the needed information, and confusion was getting in 224 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:02.919 the way. 225 00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:06.039 They don't know you, y'all know staff y'all like that. 226 00:13:12.399 --> 00:13:18.360 Yeah, both of them chat, Yeah you can't somebody. We 227 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:19.399 got people on the way. 228 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:21.000 I'm trying to get information from you. 229 00:13:21.279 --> 00:13:24.480 So yeah they are. You can kid them stabbed up 230 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:25.720 fat They two little girls. 231 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:28.759 Oh my puppy, big man, I find this dude. 232 00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:30.039 Who is this guy? 233 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:36.440 Okay, I got who is this guy? Of sab y'all? 234 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:44.799 God, I got thirteen year old Chad stop y'all chart 235 00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:47.919 young and Plumber. 236 00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:52.679 It was eighteen year old Jalen Plumber, their cousin, who 237 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:55.240 was supposed to be staying with an aunt in a 238 00:13:55.279 --> 00:13:58.960 different part of the neighborhood, but decided to go on 239 00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:03.000 a killing spread his grandma's house instead, and the grandma 240 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:05.720 was still back at the house. 241 00:14:06.519 --> 00:14:12.720 Man, y'all, please hurry up since somebody kids, he killed 242 00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:13.399 your grandmother. 243 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:26.720 So much was going on as the couple in the 244 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:32.519 house learned more information, the panic escalated. Some people are 245 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:35.240 good in crisis and some aren't. 246 00:14:35.960 --> 00:14:40.600 Don't do what you should? 247 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:41.720 Do what you say? 248 00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:43.080 Do they know where they live? 249 00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:46.200 Do I know where they live? 250 00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:47.720 Do they know? Then? 251 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:53.320 As the address they called from Chickasaw Avenue, where their grandmother, 252 00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:58.159 Diane Madison lived. The two cousins escaped but left their 253 00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:03.440 grandmother behind. Then there was the cousin Jalen, who caused 254 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:07.919 the bloodbath. No one knew his whereabouts yet, but you'd 255 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:12.679 better hope he didn't cross paths with his neighbors. 256 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:15.240 Come out, man. 257 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:21.919 Talking to me, Sam, stop calling me, please, I'm not 258 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:22.639 hitting the ship. 259 00:15:23.240 --> 00:15:27.799 I would this mother wood tree, the gass over hes. 260 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:30.559 Okay, wish he's pulling up their Do you see them 261 00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:30.919 out there? 262 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:38.039 Oh yeah, they're pulling up right now. 263 00:15:38.919 --> 00:15:43.320 And the immortal words of this Ohioan. Oh my fucking goodness. 264 00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:48.240 This was Cleveland, But even our seasoned veteran here hadn't 265 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:51.679 seen anything like this before. You could tell this was 266 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:55.720 some fucked up shit that would stick with him. After 267 00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:59.600 talking with the two little girls and the couple taking 268 00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:02.840 care of them, officers realized they needed to go to 269 00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:05.519 the crime scene. As soon as possible while the girls 270 00:16:05.559 --> 00:16:08.919 were on their way to the hospital. What they didn't 271 00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:12.200 know yet was that there was still another child in 272 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:17.279 that house on Chickasaw Justin Madison, a twelve year old 273 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:23.240 boy with autism. This was Jalen's brother, and Jalen was 274 00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:24.799 still in that house too. 275 00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:29.039 So this house, yeah, okay, so we you guys have 276 00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:33.440 a crime stee long or anything. Yeah, what happened? I 277 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:34.879 was gonn get the address that came over here. 278 00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:38.120 His little brother has like a mental disability. 279 00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:39.279 He came up to that window. 280 00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:43.840 This person right here at those windows, she's laying in 281 00:16:44.039 --> 00:16:49.360 the south east corner of the room behind the door 282 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:49.919 faced on. 283 00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:54.399 Justin was terrified and didn't completely understand what was going on. 284 00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:58.840 His sister had fled the scene with her cousin. Well 285 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:03.159 more like escape. Justin was trapped in an upstairs bedroom 286 00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:07.119 and I didn't even know he was injured. The police 287 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:11.240 were about to wade into a blood soaked house, but 288 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.720 first needed to convince her grandson Justin, to unlock the 289 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:17.720 door and come outside. 290 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:22.759 Come here, open the window. Hey, what's your name? 291 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:23.039 I'm in. 292 00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:46.759 What's now? Where's your brother? Okay, Hey, I'm the house Hey, 293 00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:47.680 I'm going to cover the bat. 294 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:51.839 Justin was risking his life letting the officers in because 295 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:56.279 the killer was still there. In the bathroom, the water 296 00:17:56.559 --> 00:18:02.160 was running. Jalen Plumber was fully clothed, standing under the shower. 297 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:06.519 The blood from his own knife wounds swirled into the 298 00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:10.599 drain stereo moment. 299 00:18:10.759 --> 00:18:15.000 You're okay, you're okod what's it? You can get my 300 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:15.519 clothes to me? 301 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:17.039 I can't? 302 00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:18.640 Are you okay? Yeah? 303 00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:21.400 Wait? 304 00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:22.400 My letter, my. 305 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:24.480 Dish? 306 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:33.720 Okay, you're fine, you're fine. Man told you though? Yees, 307 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:36.920 I mean my my mom would not my mom and 308 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:40.680 not at that? Where's your mom? At shit work? Yes? 309 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:46.640 This was a mad house. When asked for his mother's name, 310 00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:48.359 he was able to give it to the officer, but 311 00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:52.599 he couldn't spell it, saying that she never told him. 312 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:55.720 How, okay, we'll call her. Okay, you're okay though, you're 313 00:18:55.759 --> 00:18:57.759 not hurt, right, you're not bleeding at all? 314 00:18:58.519 --> 00:18:58.680 Oh? 315 00:18:58.759 --> 00:19:02.720 You you got stabbed? Huh? I got that? 316 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:03.559 Yeah? 317 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:07.400 You got you got some Look what I got lucky? 318 00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:08.519 Yeah? 319 00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:10.200 I thought the knife in there? 320 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:10.680 You did? 321 00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:13.359 Where do you think the niset? And I tell you 322 00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:17.880 this and I cleaned it up? Did you clean it up. Yeah, okay, 323 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:19.039 it didn't a thing. 324 00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:19.720 It is a thing. 325 00:19:20.440 --> 00:19:21.400 It is a thing right now. 326 00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:23.720 It's in the sink. He's saying, the noise in the sink. 327 00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:27.640 This guy, this victim, Yeah, he's got a little laceration of. 328 00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:28.279 The back right now. 329 00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:32.519 The discovery of the murder weapon was good news and 330 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:37.000 bad news. Good news that this unlikely and lucky victim 331 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:41.240 found it, but possibly bad news that he cleaned it up. 332 00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:42.680 What's gonna happened to me? 333 00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:42.920 Now? 334 00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:45.240 You're you're gonna get checked up by ums because you're 335 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:48.359 you got stabbed. I'm gonna try to getting hold of 336 00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:48.920 your mouth. 337 00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:53.160 For your Justin naturally had a lot of questions about himself, 338 00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:58.599 his grandma, Diane, and his brother, who had been led 339 00:19:58.640 --> 00:19:59.640 away in handcuffs. 340 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:02.640 Why did you make butt and out? We got him. 341 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:07.079 He's not gonna hurt. Anyone's gonna be okay. Yeah, they're 342 00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:10.880 working on it right now. They're hoping her. Okay, not 343 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:14.680 that you saw a little dog a little dog. 344 00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:15.079 I did not. 345 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:17.039 I did not go in the house. I saw you outside. 346 00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:18.359 I came and grabbed you. 347 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:22.079 What Justin didn't know was that his grandmother died almost 348 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:26.599 immediately after being stabbed. By his brother. In her bedroom, 349 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:29.960 they found Diane Madison dead of multiple stab wounds, including 350 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:34.319 one that completely severed her carottid artery, and the little 351 00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:37.279 dog he was referring to was sitting on the bed 352 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:40.359 in the same spot where he'd been sleeping peacefully next 353 00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:45.839 to his owner, now with a look of bewilderment. The 354 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:52.039 dog wasn't alone. Almost everyone who knew Jalen Plumber was bewildered. 355 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:57.680 No one could yet explain why college bound teenager, quiet, 356 00:20:58.119 --> 00:21:03.359 smart and planning to study pharmacology had suddenly turned into 357 00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:09.240 a violent killer. But there were cracks long before that night. 358 00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:15.319 This wasn't just one terrible night. It was the unveiling 359 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:19.839 of a legacy that had been building long before Jalen 360 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:56.160 had ever picked up a knife. On June twenty second, 361 00:21:56.359 --> 00:22:02.240 twenty nineteen, in East Cleveland's South Collinwood neighbor police responded 362 00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:06.920 to a bloody scene on Chickasaw Avenue. Two ten year 363 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:11.039 old girls escaped their home, reporting they'd been stabbed in 364 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:14.640 their sleep. When officers got to the house, they found 365 00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:17.799 a third victim, a twelve year old autistic boy who 366 00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:22.519 confirmed that his brother was the killer. Eighteen year old 367 00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:25.920 Jalen Plumber was in the shower rinsing off blood after 368 00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:31.160 stabbing the entire household in a bedroom. His grandmother, Diane Madison, 369 00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:34.839 lay dead from multiple stab wounds, and her little dog 370 00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:42.599 also laid nearby. Jalen offered only a chilling explanation, the 371 00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:46.920 mental healthcare system failed me, so I tried to kill 372 00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:51.240 my family. Signs of mental illness seemed obvious when Jalen 373 00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:54.960 was taken to the hospital and questioned. Nurses bandaged the 374 00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:58.400 deep cuts on his hands, but it was as if 375 00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:04.000 his voice was bound as tightly. His muffled words barely escaped. 376 00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:08.519 He spoke in vague, detached terms, referring to his siblings 377 00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:13.200 as child number one and child number two. He claimed 378 00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:15.920 he didn't know the names of his mother and grandmother 379 00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:20.319 and said he just called them mommy or grandma, his 380 00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:24.599 mother to neo. Plumber would later tell detectives that Jalen 381 00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:29.960 had no official diagnosis, but his behavior had drastically changed 382 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.839 between the ages of twelve and fifteen. He'd been drinking, smoking, 383 00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:39.359 shutting down, and fixating on dark things. She had just 384 00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:43.599 decided to get him into therapy. But here's what Jalen's 385 00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:47.640 mother didn't want to say. She remembered that his behavior 386 00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:50.920 had started to change around the time of another arrest. 387 00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:55.039 Police already knew the name that would leave her lips. 388 00:23:56.039 --> 00:23:59.160 This was a man from the same city, a serial 389 00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:03.720 killer that had haunted Cleveland and was arrested and convicted 390 00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:09.440 during Jalen's crucial adolescent years. It seemed possible this disturbed 391 00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:13.559 Jalen so much that he became fascinated with killing and 392 00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:19.559 ultimately exploded in a murderous fit that night, leaving his 393 00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:22.960 grandmother Deaddanne. 394 00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:25.759 Was a loving, kind person, and I think sometimes that 395 00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:28.519 gets lost. Almost all of us who worked with her 396 00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:31.160 remained friends with her afterwards. That's the kind of person 397 00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:31.599 she was. 398 00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:35.200 She was the kind of person others felt comfortable with 399 00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:39.160 because they knew she'd been through it. They knew she 400 00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:42.519 was the first to sympathize. She was always open to 401 00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:46.720