1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,879
Speaker 1: Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is

2
00:00:03,919 --> 00:00:05,679
not intended for all audiences.

3
00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:08,519
Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised.

4
00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:20,000
Speaker 3: A man man should never be count when it comes

5
00:00:20,039 --> 00:00:21,679
to a Female's never.

6
00:00:21,519 --> 00:00:22,079
Speaker 2: Been a man.

7
00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:25,879
Speaker 1: Come take a load off, put your feet up, and

8
00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,199
listen to some murder. What a stupid thing to say.

9
00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,560
This is season thirteen, episode three, and thirty eight of

10
00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,719
Sword and Scales show that reveals it the worst monsters

11
00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:55,960
are real. If you're a fan of true crime, I

12
00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,799
invite you to check out our brand new YouTube channel

13
00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,159
where you could subscribe and the opposite way you can

14
00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,400
on our website. See on our website you can subscribe

15
00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,359
for ten bucks for audio and then add video for

16
00:01:08,439 --> 00:01:11,400
another ten bucks. On top of that. On YouTube you

17
00:01:11,439 --> 00:01:16,000
can start with video and add audio, so you know,

18
00:01:16,079 --> 00:01:18,920
take your pick. This is just going to complicate things,

19
00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:47,560
isn't it. Oh well, fuck my life. It's just after

20
00:01:47,719 --> 00:01:53,079
midnight in twenty nineteen, during the summer solstice, the longest

21
00:01:53,159 --> 00:01:58,359
day of the year. This isn't some mumbo jumbo New

22
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,920
age crap. It's when the sun is furthest from the equator,

23
00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,519
and it's a time when some say the veil between

24
00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,759
this dimension and the others is the thinnest. Okay, so

25
00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,000
maybe there is a little quote unquote New age wisdom.

26
00:02:15,479 --> 00:02:19,520
The most important point, though, is that it's Ohio, the

27
00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,719
state that's becoming quite popular around here for some reason.

28
00:02:23,599 --> 00:02:28,319
So it's June twenty first in East Cleveland. Believe it

29
00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,080
or not, there are posh areas in Cleveland so that

30
00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,240
some of you savages can pretend to be people. This

31
00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:40,439
isn't one of them. It's not a picturesque skyline by

32
00:02:40,479 --> 00:02:44,599
the lake or the downtown area lit up with nightlife.

33
00:02:45,319 --> 00:02:49,599
It's colin Wood, a working class neighborhood that feels like

34
00:02:49,759 --> 00:02:53,680
it's part of a bygone era, part of the Rust Belt.

35
00:02:54,039 --> 00:02:58,479
The houses are small and modest, but nice enough, and

36
00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,840
the lawns are mote. There's just enough space in the

37
00:03:01,879 --> 00:03:09,039
backyard for a barbecue. Ah Americana, a small white Cape

38
00:03:09,039 --> 00:03:13,719
cod style home bases a narrow street called Chickasaw Avenue.

39
00:03:14,599 --> 00:03:19,199
It's a mild but humid evening. No wind is blowing,

40
00:03:19,719 --> 00:03:24,520
and it's dark. Windows stay open in most homes and

41
00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:29,479
the people inside are asleep, the fans humming in the background.

42
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,120
But on this street, as June twenty first turns to

43
00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:38,280
the twenty second. Something bad is happening than I.

44
00:03:38,199 --> 00:03:41,840
Speaker 4: Want one to special shoopini police fire ems.

45
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,319
Speaker 5: Oh we just got stabbed more chickensaw as.

46
00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,360
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I said, we just got sad?

47
00:03:50,599 --> 00:03:51,439
Speaker 6: Who just got that?

48
00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,319
Speaker 1: The call almost sounded like a hoax. The child calling

49
00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:00,000
in was so calm and said she lived on chicken

50
00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,319
and Saw Avenue. But this was no joke.

51
00:04:04,199 --> 00:04:07,199
Speaker 6: What's your address? Where you are?

52
00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:10,719
Speaker 7: What? What's the address?

53
00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:12,360
Speaker 6: The complete address?

54
00:04:13,039 --> 00:04:15,840
Speaker 5: You don't know you're on? What street?

55
00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,439
Speaker 4: Chickens about?

56
00:04:20,399 --> 00:04:21,319
Speaker 6: Are you a yuquid?

57
00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:22,319
Speaker 8: No?

58
00:04:22,519 --> 00:04:23,399
Speaker 5: Cleveland, Ohio.

59
00:04:24,439 --> 00:04:26,399
Speaker 1: You may not have caught it, but the little girl

60
00:04:26,439 --> 00:04:29,639
said she was about to pass out. She was trying

61
00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,759
her hardest to stay alert and get the street names right.

62
00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,040
In this part of Cleveland, the streets seem to have

63
00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:38,720
Native American names.

64
00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,680
Speaker 6: And you're on Chickasaw Yeah. Do you know another street nearby?

65
00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:45,279
Speaker 9: Oh?

66
00:04:45,399 --> 00:04:52,680
Speaker 5: No, I'm living Site one Trocky, You're own turkey?

67
00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:54,480
Speaker 6: What trophy?

68
00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,680
Speaker 1: What she was trying to say was Cherokee. No to parents,

69
00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,120
make sure that your kids know where they live and

70
00:05:02,199 --> 00:05:05,839
how to pronounce the street names. That's a small safety

71
00:05:05,879 --> 00:05:08,720
tip that rivals all of the can goods and toilet

72
00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,199
paper you hoard in your Cape cod summer home. Yeah,

73
00:05:12,319 --> 00:05:13,199
I know my audience.

74
00:05:13,879 --> 00:05:15,480
Speaker 6: Okay, who got stabbed? Honey?

75
00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,800
Speaker 5: Like by who don't be here?

76
00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,480
Speaker 6: Okay, I'm gonna get you over to EMS. Okay, yeah,

77
00:05:27,319 --> 00:05:28,680
don't hang up. How old are you?

78
00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:31,879
Speaker 4: Okay, don't hang up?

79
00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:33,480
Speaker 5: Okay, Okay.

80
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,560
Speaker 1: The dispatch operator told the EMS responder she had a

81
00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,000
ten year old who had a knife for me. It

82
00:05:46,079 --> 00:05:49,079
was hard to tell if his response was disbelief or

83
00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:55,120
mere frustration. I mean, this is Cleveland. Sadly, it's probably

84
00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,920
not the first time a kid called in about being stabbed.

85
00:05:58,879 --> 00:06:00,759
This place truly is a shithole.

86
00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,720
Speaker 6: Okay are you still.

87
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:06,199
Speaker 10: Yeah?

88
00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:07,480
Speaker 4: I'm not to back out.

89
00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:09,680
Speaker 6: Okay, Okay, she doesn't.

90
00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:11,040
Speaker 4: She says she's on a.

91
00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:11,800
Speaker 11: Street claws.

92
00:06:14,759 --> 00:06:15,600
Speaker 4: The corner whip.

93
00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:16,879
Speaker 12: She is not.

94
00:06:17,399 --> 00:06:29,279
Speaker 7: She just says she's on a street cause sugar, she

95
00:06:29,399 --> 00:06:31,040
met her and her cousin got that.

96
00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:33,079
Speaker 2: Say.

97
00:06:34,319 --> 00:06:38,439
Speaker 11: Was her cousin older than her?

98
00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,160
Speaker 1: By this time, the polite little girl who was stabbed

99
00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:48,560
and trying not to pass out was getting frustrated. You

100
00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,399
can hear her in the background, desperately pleading for help.

101
00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,160
She was probably wondering when the questions would stop and

102
00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:59,759
an ambulance would arrive. The victims were two ten year

103
00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,959
old cousins who managed to escape outside. They were making

104
00:07:03,959 --> 00:07:06,680
their way to a neighbor's house, but all the time

105
00:07:06,759 --> 00:07:11,319
struggling just to stay alive. Thank god, some kind people

106
00:07:11,399 --> 00:07:14,439
in the next street over were still up and looking

107
00:07:14,439 --> 00:07:16,720
out their window when they heard crying.

108
00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,240
Speaker 7: Number one, that's just the st.

109
00:07:22,519 --> 00:07:23,560
Speaker 13: It's a brother theater.

110
00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:25,560
Speaker 6: What's what's your address?

111
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:26,800
Speaker 14: Address?

112
00:07:26,879 --> 00:07:27,240
Speaker 12: One night?

113
00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,519
Speaker 5: Once you cheared and she really bad, she's coming in

114
00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:31,959
my house.

115
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:33,720
Speaker 11: Sole, but.

116
00:07:36,519 --> 00:07:39,759
Speaker 7: Cut the door.

117
00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,240
Speaker 1: Imagine that you're minding your own business, and suddenly you

118
00:07:44,319 --> 00:07:49,079
hear little kids crying outside. You're like, what's that? You

119
00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:53,600
get up to see two blood soaked girls staggering towards

120
00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,120
your house? These days? Would you even let them in?

121
00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:02,199
I mean, be honest, that's some the shining bullshit right there.

122
00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,759
Some of you would probably slam the door shut, no doubt.

123
00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:07,800
Speaker 5: She knocked on my door and say that she's still

124
00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:09,959
the bleeding to death over the clothes full of blood?

125
00:08:10,439 --> 00:08:11,360
Speaker 6: Who's bleeding in that?

126
00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:13,680
Speaker 7: The two little girls?

127
00:08:13,959 --> 00:08:14,279
Speaker 6: Okay?

128
00:08:14,439 --> 00:08:15,839
Speaker 5: And then you grow can girly talk?

129
00:08:16,199 --> 00:08:16,399
Speaker 11: Yes?

130
00:08:16,839 --> 00:08:18,480
Speaker 4: Okay, So let I ask you to my question. Answer

131
00:08:18,519 --> 00:08:19,720
that I can tell you what to do these questions.

132
00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:20,680
Speaker 6: They're gonna help me help them?

133
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:21,160
Speaker 4: Okay.

134
00:08:21,319 --> 00:08:24,079
Speaker 5: How old are okay? You look like they're about moving.

135
00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:25,240
Speaker 7: Twelve threele than.

136
00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:25,839
Speaker 10: Twelve years old.

137
00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,639
Speaker 4: I'm as a move. And are they in wait?

138
00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, they're covered in blood?

139
00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,200
Speaker 4: Okay, and litten careful. I want to tell you how

140
00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,120
to stop the bleeding. Let'ten careful to make sure we

141
00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:36,720
do it correct?

142
00:08:36,759 --> 00:08:40,480
Speaker 1: Okay, sounds like a plan, right, But what do you

143
00:08:40,519 --> 00:08:43,600
do if you can't tell where the blood's coming from?

144
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,240
Speaker 4: So I need you to get a good mood.

145
00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:46,919
Speaker 5: All over?

146
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,360
Speaker 4: Okay, it's all over? Okay. Is a burger's done there

147
00:08:52,399 --> 00:08:53,000
by the one.

148
00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:53,519
Speaker 6: I stabbed him?

149
00:08:54,759 --> 00:08:55,360
Speaker 15: No?

150
00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,480
Speaker 5: No, no, I'll paying.

151
00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,200
Speaker 4: And is there any serious bleeding yet?

152
00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:01,039
Speaker 5: That's curious bleeding?

153
00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,000
Speaker 4: Okay? Are they completely in there? Are they going out

154
00:09:03,039 --> 00:09:04,159
of it unconscious?

155
00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:04,799
Speaker 7: Yes?

156
00:09:04,919 --> 00:09:08,159
Speaker 4: The sea of curd yes, okay, I'm giving this information

157
00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,159
to the dispatch. Stand in line. Don't hang up? Okay,

158
00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,200
And you said there is more than one won't correct?

159
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,320
Speaker 11: Yes, we're still over.

160
00:09:15,399 --> 00:09:17,799
Speaker 5: They got good and they're living in my house in

161
00:09:17,799 --> 00:09:19,080
my four year and they're bleeding.

162
00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:19,639
Speaker 6: Okay.

163
00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:20,679
Speaker 4: Health is on the way.

164
00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,399
Speaker 1: It always seems to take forever for an ambulance to arrive,

165
00:09:25,159 --> 00:09:29,120
and the questions from nine one one operators are never ending.

166
00:09:29,879 --> 00:09:33,480
The truth is that the response time varies obviously depending

167
00:09:33,519 --> 00:09:36,759
on where you live, but in urban areas the average

168
00:09:36,799 --> 00:09:40,120
time is only about five to eight minutes, but those

169
00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,159
few minutes can feel like forever.

170
00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,200
Speaker 5: All right, shut the door, you see Okay?

171
00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,360
Speaker 6: Rights you okay, you're living? Were talking.

172
00:09:52,639 --> 00:09:54,360
Speaker 4: My one is going to take them to give years.

173
00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,200
They're coming right now, the fire apartment and the paramedics

174
00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:01,519
get there on the way.

175
00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,440
Speaker 1: The excitement was almost too much for this lady. She

176
00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:06,879
started having her own issues.

177
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:08,200
Speaker 5: I got asthma.

178
00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:09,399
Speaker 16: My bleeding is beauty.

179
00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:12,639
Speaker 4: Okay, do you have a haler?

180
00:10:12,799 --> 00:10:13,279
Speaker 6: She can take?

181
00:10:17,159 --> 00:10:19,840
Speaker 1: Despite her own problems, this woman wasn't going to let

182
00:10:19,919 --> 00:10:24,639
two little girls slip into unconsciousness. I mean, if I

183
00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,240
needed somebody to bring me back, I'd want this lady.

184
00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,720
Speaker 7: She goes hard, hi way a bright.

185
00:10:34,159 --> 00:10:36,000
Speaker 1: As the woman in the house is on the phone

186
00:10:36,039 --> 00:10:40,440
with nine one one, her boyfriend comes back. He sees

187
00:10:40,519 --> 00:10:42,360
the kids bleeding and crying.

188
00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:52,720
Speaker 6: On Hello, get the honey.

189
00:10:56,759 --> 00:11:01,120
Speaker 11: Hello, you guys, are we are right?

190
00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,039
Speaker 12: We own Cherokee one nine six one two Cherokee On

191
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:05,879
when these kids have been stabbed up.

192
00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,399
Speaker 11: Okay, give me give me that address again, one nine

193
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:10,879
six one two Cherokee.

194
00:11:12,799 --> 00:11:15,799
Speaker 15: Who am I speaking to? Mister mn and police?

195
00:11:16,639 --> 00:11:19,919
Speaker 12: Hurry up, please, these these girls has been stabbed bad.

196
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:27,399
Come back your babies, I think doesn't find that.

197
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,200
Speaker 15: Ain't nobody gonna mess with y'all. Oh my goodness, come on,

198
00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:34,840
Oh my goodness, come on, baby, come on.

199
00:11:35,519 --> 00:11:36,360
Speaker 5: Can't get up.

200
00:11:36,879 --> 00:11:39,519
Speaker 1: The little girls confirmed that it was a cousin who

201
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:43,559
stabbed them, and she's afraid he'll find them that when

202
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,080
this guy's around, I mean, would you fuck with them?

203
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,600
I wouldn't. Weekly. She tells him she can't get up.

204
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:51,919
Speaker 15: Open that door.

205
00:11:53,159 --> 00:11:54,759
Speaker 5: This girl's been stabbed up bad.

206
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,200
Speaker 11: Okay, that's the address where they're gonna be. The one

207
00:11:58,279 --> 00:12:02,720
nine six twelve. That one took one to dare to

208
00:12:02,799 --> 00:12:07,039
hurry up. Oh my fucking goodness.

209
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:12,360
Speaker 15: Okay, you got your front pay? Yeah, but he all said,

210
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,279
right there, Oh my fucking goodness, this girl is tabbed

211
00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:15,799
a real.

212
00:12:15,759 --> 00:12:18,639
Speaker 6: Bad guess you know where to park the way?

213
00:12:20,399 --> 00:12:20,600
Speaker 17: Yeah?

214
00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:22,320
Speaker 15: They were uness where.

215
00:12:24,919 --> 00:12:26,039
Speaker 11: What a person going to tab?

216
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:27,440
Speaker 15: They said, they're looking for him.

217
00:12:28,919 --> 00:12:34,440
Speaker 11: Let me do this please, he said.

218
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,200
Speaker 15: They were the persons looking for me.

219
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:44,279
Speaker 1: The person job they said they looking for them. Oh boy,

220
00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,720
these gentlemen seem ready to carry out their own investigation,

221
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:54,840
but police wanted a name. The little girls were scared

222
00:12:55,039 --> 00:12:58,360
and going in and out of awareness. It was hard

223
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,519
to get the needed information, and confusion was getting in

224
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:02,919
the way.

225
00:13:03,759 --> 00:13:06,039
Speaker 15: They don't know you, y'all know staff y'all like that.

226
00:13:12,399 --> 00:13:18,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, both of them chat, Yeah you can't somebody. We

227
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:19,399
got people on the way.

228
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:21,000
Speaker 11: I'm trying to get information from you.

229
00:13:21,279 --> 00:13:24,480
Speaker 15: So yeah they are. You can kid them stabbed up

230
00:13:24,519 --> 00:13:25,720
fat They two little girls.

231
00:13:25,879 --> 00:13:28,759
Speaker 12: Oh my puppy, big man, I find this dude.

232
00:13:29,279 --> 00:13:30,039
Speaker 8: Who is this guy?

233
00:13:33,879 --> 00:13:36,440
Speaker 11: Okay, I got who is this guy? Of sab y'all?

234
00:13:39,039 --> 00:13:44,799
Speaker 15: God, I got thirteen year old Chad stop y'all chart

235
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:47,919
young and Plumber.

236
00:13:48,799 --> 00:13:52,679
Speaker 1: It was eighteen year old Jalen Plumber, their cousin, who

237
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,240
was supposed to be staying with an aunt in a

238
00:13:55,279 --> 00:13:58,960
different part of the neighborhood, but decided to go on

239
00:13:59,039 --> 00:14:03,000
a killing spread his grandma's house instead, and the grandma

240
00:14:03,759 --> 00:14:05,720
was still back at the house.

241
00:14:06,519 --> 00:14:12,720
Speaker 15: Man, y'all, please hurry up since somebody kids, he killed

242
00:14:12,759 --> 00:14:13,399
your grandmother.

243
00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,720
Speaker 1: So much was going on as the couple in the

244
00:14:26,759 --> 00:14:32,519
house learned more information, the panic escalated. Some people are

245
00:14:32,639 --> 00:14:35,240
good in crisis and some aren't.

246
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:40,600
Speaker 12: Don't do what you should?

247
00:14:40,639 --> 00:14:41,720
Speaker 15: Do what you say?

248
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:43,080
Speaker 6: Do they know where they live?

249
00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:46,200
Speaker 2: Do I know where they live?

250
00:14:46,559 --> 00:14:47,720
Speaker 6: Do they know? Then?

251
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:53,320
Speaker 1: As the address they called from Chickasaw Avenue, where their grandmother,

252
00:14:53,879 --> 00:14:58,159
Diane Madison lived. The two cousins escaped but left their

253
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:03,440
grandmother behind. Then there was the cousin Jalen, who caused

254
00:15:03,519 --> 00:15:07,919
the bloodbath. No one knew his whereabouts yet, but you'd

255
00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:12,679
better hope he didn't cross paths with his neighbors.

256
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,240
Speaker 15: Come out, man.

257
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,919
Speaker 12: Talking to me, Sam, stop calling me, please, I'm not

258
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:22,639
hitting the ship.

259
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:27,799
Speaker 15: I would this mother wood tree, the gass over hes.

260
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,559
Speaker 6: Okay, wish he's pulling up their Do you see them

261
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:30,919
out there?

262
00:15:32,039 --> 00:15:38,039
Speaker 15: Oh yeah, they're pulling up right now.

263
00:15:38,919 --> 00:15:43,320
Speaker 1: And the immortal words of this Ohioan. Oh my fucking goodness.

264
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:48,240
This was Cleveland, But even our seasoned veteran here hadn't

265
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,679
seen anything like this before. You could tell this was

266
00:15:51,759 --> 00:15:55,720
some fucked up shit that would stick with him. After

267
00:15:56,159 --> 00:15:59,600
talking with the two little girls and the couple taking

268
00:15:59,639 --> 00:16:02,840
care of them, officers realized they needed to go to

269
00:16:02,919 --> 00:16:05,519
the crime scene. As soon as possible while the girls

270
00:16:05,559 --> 00:16:08,919
were on their way to the hospital. What they didn't

271
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,200
know yet was that there was still another child in

272
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:17,279
that house on Chickasaw Justin Madison, a twelve year old

273
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:23,240
boy with autism. This was Jalen's brother, and Jalen was

274
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:24,799
still in that house too.

275
00:16:25,559 --> 00:16:29,039
Speaker 18: So this house, yeah, okay, so we you guys have

276
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:33,440
a crime stee long or anything. Yeah, what happened? I

277
00:16:33,519 --> 00:16:34,879
was gonn get the address that came over here.

278
00:16:35,639 --> 00:16:38,120
Speaker 10: His little brother has like a mental disability.

279
00:16:38,159 --> 00:16:39,279
Speaker 18: He came up to that window.

280
00:16:39,759 --> 00:16:43,840
Speaker 9: This person right here at those windows, she's laying in

281
00:16:44,039 --> 00:16:49,360
the south east corner of the room behind the door

282
00:16:49,519 --> 00:16:49,919
faced on.

283
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,399
Speaker 1: Justin was terrified and didn't completely understand what was going on.

284
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,840
His sister had fled the scene with her cousin. Well

285
00:16:59,039 --> 00:17:03,159
more like escape. Justin was trapped in an upstairs bedroom

286
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:07,119
and I didn't even know he was injured. The police

287
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,240
were about to wade into a blood soaked house, but

288
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,720
first needed to convince her grandson Justin, to unlock the

289
00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:17,720
door and come outside.

290
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,759
Speaker 18: Come here, open the window. Hey, what's your name?

291
00:17:22,799 --> 00:17:23,039
Speaker 8: I'm in.

292
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:46,759
Speaker 18: What's now? Where's your brother? Okay, Hey, I'm the house Hey,

293
00:17:46,799 --> 00:17:47,680
I'm going to cover the bat.

294
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,839
Speaker 1: Justin was risking his life letting the officers in because

295
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,279
the killer was still there. In the bathroom, the water

296
00:17:56,559 --> 00:18:02,160
was running. Jalen Plumber was fully clothed, standing under the shower.

297
00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:06,519
The blood from his own knife wounds swirled into the

298
00:18:06,599 --> 00:18:10,599
drain stereo moment.

299
00:18:10,759 --> 00:18:15,000
Speaker 18: You're okay, you're okod what's it? You can get my

300
00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:15,519
clothes to me?

301
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:17,039
Speaker 11: I can't?

302
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:18,640
Speaker 18: Are you okay? Yeah?

303
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:21,400
Speaker 6: Wait?

304
00:18:21,559 --> 00:18:22,400
Speaker 11: My letter, my.

305
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:24,480
Speaker 19: Dish?

306
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:33,720
Speaker 18: Okay, you're fine, you're fine. Man told you though? Yees,

307
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,920
I mean my my mom would not my mom and

308
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,680
not at that? Where's your mom? At shit work? Yes?

309
00:18:41,599 --> 00:18:46,640
Speaker 1: This was a mad house. When asked for his mother's name,

310
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,359
he was able to give it to the officer, but

311
00:18:49,319 --> 00:18:52,599
he couldn't spell it, saying that she never told him.

312
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,720
Speaker 20: How, okay, we'll call her. Okay, you're okay though, you're

313
00:18:55,759 --> 00:18:57,759
not hurt, right, you're not bleeding at all?

314
00:18:58,519 --> 00:18:58,680
Speaker 12: Oh?

315
00:18:58,759 --> 00:19:02,720
Speaker 18: You you got stabbed? Huh? I got that?

316
00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:03,559
Speaker 15: Yeah?

317
00:19:03,599 --> 00:19:07,400
Speaker 18: You got you got some Look what I got lucky?

318
00:19:08,319 --> 00:19:08,519
Speaker 15: Yeah?

319
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:10,200
Speaker 18: I thought the knife in there?

320
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:10,680
Speaker 15: You did?

321
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,359
Speaker 18: Where do you think the niset? And I tell you

322
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,880
this and I cleaned it up? Did you clean it up. Yeah, okay,

323
00:19:18,519 --> 00:19:19,039
it didn't a thing.

324
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:19,720
Speaker 10: It is a thing.

325
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:21,400
Speaker 6: It is a thing right now.

326
00:19:21,559 --> 00:19:23,720
Speaker 20: It's in the sink. He's saying, the noise in the sink.

327
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,640
This guy, this victim, Yeah, he's got a little laceration of.

328
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:28,279
Speaker 18: The back right now.

329
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,519
Speaker 1: The discovery of the murder weapon was good news and

330
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:37,000
bad news. Good news that this unlikely and lucky victim

331
00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:41,240
found it, but possibly bad news that he cleaned it up.

332
00:19:41,759 --> 00:19:42,680
Speaker 18: What's gonna happened to me?

333
00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:42,920
Speaker 8: Now?

334
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,240
Speaker 20: You're you're gonna get checked up by ums because you're

335
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,359
you got stabbed. I'm gonna try to getting hold of

336
00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:48,920
your mouth.

337
00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:53,160
Speaker 1: For your Justin naturally had a lot of questions about himself,

338
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:58,599
his grandma, Diane, and his brother, who had been led

339
00:19:58,640 --> 00:19:59,640
away in handcuffs.

340
00:20:00,599 --> 00:20:02,640
Speaker 18: Why did you make butt and out? We got him.

341
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,079
He's not gonna hurt. Anyone's gonna be okay. Yeah, they're

342
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,880
working on it right now. They're hoping her. Okay, not

343
00:20:11,039 --> 00:20:14,680
that you saw a little dog a little dog.

344
00:20:14,759 --> 00:20:15,079
Speaker 19: I did not.

345
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,039
Speaker 18: I did not go in the house. I saw you outside.

346
00:20:17,519 --> 00:20:18,359
I came and grabbed you.

347
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,079
Speaker 1: What Justin didn't know was that his grandmother died almost

348
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:26,599
immediately after being stabbed. By his brother. In her bedroom,

349
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,960
they found Diane Madison dead of multiple stab wounds, including

350
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:34,319
one that completely severed her carottid artery, and the little

351
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,279
dog he was referring to was sitting on the bed

352
00:20:37,519 --> 00:20:40,359
in the same spot where he'd been sleeping peacefully next

353
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:45,839
to his owner, now with a look of bewilderment. The

354
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:52,039
dog wasn't alone. Almost everyone who knew Jalen Plumber was bewildered.

355
00:20:53,039 --> 00:20:57,680
No one could yet explain why college bound teenager, quiet,

356
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:03,359
smart and planning to study pharmacology had suddenly turned into

357
00:21:03,519 --> 00:21:09,240
a violent killer. But there were cracks long before that night.

358
00:21:10,319 --> 00:21:15,319
This wasn't just one terrible night. It was the unveiling

359
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,839
of a legacy that had been building long before Jalen

360
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:56,160
had ever picked up a knife. On June twenty second,

361
00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:02,240
twenty nineteen, in East Cleveland's South Collinwood neighbor police responded

362
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,920
to a bloody scene on Chickasaw Avenue. Two ten year

363
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,039
old girls escaped their home, reporting they'd been stabbed in

364
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,640
their sleep. When officers got to the house, they found

365
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,799
a third victim, a twelve year old autistic boy who

366
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:22,519
confirmed that his brother was the killer. Eighteen year old

367
00:22:22,599 --> 00:22:25,920
Jalen Plumber was in the shower rinsing off blood after

368
00:22:26,039 --> 00:22:31,160
stabbing the entire household in a bedroom. His grandmother, Diane Madison,

369
00:22:31,279 --> 00:22:34,839
lay dead from multiple stab wounds, and her little dog

370
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:42,599
also laid nearby. Jalen offered only a chilling explanation, the

371
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,920
mental healthcare system failed me, so I tried to kill

372
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,240
my family. Signs of mental illness seemed obvious when Jalen

373
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,960
was taken to the hospital and questioned. Nurses bandaged the

374
00:22:55,039 --> 00:22:58,400
deep cuts on his hands, but it was as if

375
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:04,000
his voice was bound as tightly. His muffled words barely escaped.

376
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,519
He spoke in vague, detached terms, referring to his siblings

377
00:23:08,559 --> 00:23:13,200
as child number one and child number two. He claimed

378
00:23:13,319 --> 00:23:15,920
he didn't know the names of his mother and grandmother

379
00:23:16,519 --> 00:23:20,319
and said he just called them mommy or grandma, his

380
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,599
mother to neo. Plumber would later tell detectives that Jalen

381
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:29,960
had no official diagnosis, but his behavior had drastically changed

382
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,839
between the ages of twelve and fifteen. He'd been drinking, smoking,

383
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:39,359
shutting down, and fixating on dark things. She had just

384
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,599
decided to get him into therapy. But here's what Jalen's

385
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,640
mother didn't want to say. She remembered that his behavior

386
00:23:47,799 --> 00:23:50,920
had started to change around the time of another arrest.

387
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,039
Police already knew the name that would leave her lips.

388
00:23:56,039 --> 00:23:59,160
This was a man from the same city, a serial

389
00:23:59,279 --> 00:24:03,720
killer that had haunted Cleveland and was arrested and convicted

390
00:24:03,799 --> 00:24:09,440
during Jalen's crucial adolescent years. It seemed possible this disturbed

391
00:24:09,519 --> 00:24:13,559
Jalen so much that he became fascinated with killing and

392
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:19,559
ultimately exploded in a murderous fit that night, leaving his

393
00:24:19,799 --> 00:24:22,960
grandmother Deaddanne.

394
00:24:21,799 --> 00:24:25,759
Speaker 21: Was a loving, kind person, and I think sometimes that

395
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,519
gets lost. Almost all of us who worked with her

396
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,160
remained friends with her afterwards. That's the kind of person

397
00:24:31,279 --> 00:24:31,599
she was.

398
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 1: She was the kind of person others felt comfortable with

399
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,160
because they knew she'd been through it. They knew she

400
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,519
was the first to sympathize. She was always open to

401
00:24:42,599 --> 00:24:46,720
hearing about everybody's hard times because God knows, she'd had

402
00:24:46,839 --> 00:24:47,440
enough of her own.

403
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 13: And I just want them to remember her smile and

404
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,920
remember how much laughter and joy she brought to people's lives.

405
00:24:54,039 --> 00:24:57,799
Speaker 21: She was someone who was compassionate, who cared about her family,

406
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,559
who cared about her grandkids, who cared a her kids

407
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,759
even when they couldn't reciprocate.

408
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 1: Maybe Diane Madison wasn't just a grandmother. She was a

409
00:25:06,519 --> 00:25:10,599
mother of one of the most notorious killers in Cleveland's history.

410
00:25:11,599 --> 00:25:15,720
Her son, Michael Madison, grew up in that same house

411
00:25:16,039 --> 00:25:21,160
on Chickasaw Avenue. As an adult, he returned to raise

412
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,519
a family there with his girlfriend, Tania Plummer. They had

413
00:25:25,559 --> 00:25:32,079
two children, including a disabled son. Eventually Michael left them behind,

414
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,839
not before Jalen witnessed it all though, the growing suspicion,

415
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,400
the arrest, the conviction of a killer, someone who had

416
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,599
once called that house home.

417
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 6: Conversation recorded on July nineteenth, two thousand and thirteenth, at

418
00:25:51,559 --> 00:25:53,319
eight fifty.

419
00:25:53,279 --> 00:25:55,799
Speaker 8: Four religious specificatis.

420
00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:03,079
Speaker 15: So just need to see you all the tents somebody

421
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,000
over here. We can just goe to row. So what's

422
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:05,400
going on?

423
00:26:05,599 --> 00:26:06,279
Speaker 2: You wanna sell?

424
00:26:07,279 --> 00:26:11,079
Speaker 15: Because that we can't get a garage thor open bus.

425
00:26:11,319 --> 00:26:14,240
It's a smell. I know when the dead animals smelled.

426
00:26:14,319 --> 00:26:17,279
I know what gopic snails, but apply coming out of

427
00:26:17,319 --> 00:26:19,640
the wall from the one side of the garage. I mean,

428
00:26:19,839 --> 00:26:22,640
the smell so freaking calls you could throw up. I mean,

429
00:26:23,559 --> 00:26:25,480
we just want to make sure ain't nobody in the

430
00:26:25,559 --> 00:26:29,759
other side or something. I mean, it's so bad enough, man,

431
00:26:29,839 --> 00:26:32,400
you will throw up the card even take the smell.

432
00:26:32,519 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 7: So what's the address?

433
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 19: Thirteen ninety five hate, So what's the name?

434
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 15: My straight.

435
00:26:40,839 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 8: I say, Chile.

436
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 15: Number to eight seven zero eighty nine fifty six. Okay,

437
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,200
yeah we are. I'm out here now, so we're waiting.

438
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,000
Nobody ain't come up. Yeah, we can't call. That's crazy,

439
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,640
okay saying you all right?

440
00:27:02,319 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 1: That smell in the garage if you've never had the pleasure,

441
00:27:05,839 --> 00:27:11,039
it's a mixture of rotting fish, dead animal, skunk and

442
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:16,920
ross sewage. How's that lunch treating you? You're welcome. This

443
00:27:17,079 --> 00:27:20,759
call came in six years before Diane's murder, and it

444
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,519
wasn't just the first sign of something horrific. It was

445
00:27:24,599 --> 00:27:26,400
the past catching up.

446
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 14: It was a call to police from a cable company

447
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,880
worker in this building that eventually led to the arrest

448
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,960
of Michael Madison on murder charges. He lived there in

449
00:27:35,039 --> 00:27:38,680
an apartment and one employee saw flies swarming in a

450
00:27:38,759 --> 00:27:39,640
nearby garage.

451
00:27:40,079 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 22: So I went in there and when I smelled the smell,

452
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,759
I was like, oh my god, we need to call

453
00:27:44,839 --> 00:27:45,319
the police.

454
00:27:45,559 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 14: East Cleveland police found the decomposing body of a female

455
00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:52,920
victim on Friday. The ideed Madison as a suspect, arrested

456
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,200
him at his mother's home and began questioning.

457
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 1: The garage wasn't behind Diane's house. It was on Haydene,

458
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,720
near a small upstairs apartment Michael had been renting just

459
00:28:03,839 --> 00:28:08,079
a few miles away. Because by twenty thirteen, he wasn't

460
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,640
living under his mother's roof anymore, and he wasn't the

461
00:28:11,759 --> 00:28:17,240
same cute, cuddly little boy she'd raised. He had turned cold.

462
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:23,839
Michael Madison, Diane's son, was no stranger to trouble. He

463
00:28:24,039 --> 00:28:29,039
was quiet and withdrawn. He's always been that way. He'd

464
00:28:29,079 --> 00:28:32,680
been drifting for years, through dead end jobs, short tempers,

465
00:28:32,759 --> 00:28:37,079
and the kind of isolation that makes neighbors nervous.

466
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,559
Speaker 15: He had anger issues.

467
00:28:39,599 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 22: Sometime. I would see him upset, yelling, and I just

468
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:44,880
told him to calm down.

469
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,079
Speaker 23: And he was okay, And you know, he spoke to everybody.

470
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,839
Speaker 1: When the garage door finally opened and the truth finally

471
00:28:52,599 --> 00:28:57,720
came spilling out, literally, it wasn't just the neighborhood that changed.

472
00:28:57,799 --> 00:29:03,160
It was the entire Madison household, especially his step son Jalen.

473
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,880
The man he had once called stepdad would now be

474
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:13,359
called something else, entirely a killer. Michael wasn't exactly a copycat,

475
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,680
but his crimes bore chilling similarities to those of another

476
00:29:17,839 --> 00:29:24,839
Cleveland serial killer he reportedly admired, Anthony Sowell, infamously known

477
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:30,279
as the Cleveland Strangler. Sowell was convicted in twenty eleven

478
00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:33,519
after the remains of eleven women were found at his home.

479
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,400
Years later, Jalen Plummer, who lived with his stepfather Michael

480
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:43,240
in the same house, appeared to develop a disturbing interest

481
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,359
in the same notorious figure.

482
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,759
Speaker 14: The coroner in Cleveland, Ohio, says six bodies found in

483
00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:51,559
the home of a convicted rapist were female. All were

484
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,839
homicide victims. Police arrested fifty year old Anthony Sowell Saturday.

485
00:29:56,079 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: Thank you Jesus, Thank you Heavy Father.

486
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,319
Speaker 22: I am so glad they got him, because I wasn't

487
00:30:01,319 --> 00:30:03,279
gonna risk you know, until they did.

488
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,519
Speaker 12: Before. I had to put my frize against the door

489
00:30:07,119 --> 00:30:09,480
and locked myself in before I could even go to sleep.

490
00:30:10,119 --> 00:30:13,759
Speaker 1: Just two years after the Cleveland Strangler was put away,

491
00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:19,039
Michael Madison emerged onto the crime scene. Michael was born

492
00:30:19,079 --> 00:30:23,519
in East Cleveland in nineteen seventy seven. Former classmates barely

493
00:30:23,599 --> 00:30:27,440
remembered him because he had no real friends. He was,

494
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,799
I guess what you would call forgettable. He didn't graduate

495
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:36,160
from high school, but he was far from stupid. He

496
00:30:36,279 --> 00:30:40,279
had a lot going on in his head, but no

497
00:30:40,359 --> 00:30:44,119
one ever bothered to ask what that was, and he

498
00:30:44,279 --> 00:30:48,680
never saw a therapist. But he needed one because he

499
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:54,079
hated women, specifically black women. The women who fell into

500
00:30:54,359 --> 00:30:58,559
his nightmare weren't prostitutes or drugged out street women, not

501
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,839
that they would deserve his faith. Instead, they were women

502
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,759
with families, full lives and plans, and for a brief,

503
00:31:07,079 --> 00:31:11,599
fateful moment, each of them crossed paths with Michael Madison.

504
00:31:12,279 --> 00:31:15,799
The first body found was eighteen year old Shireald to Terry.

505
00:31:16,599 --> 00:31:19,680
She had just graduated from high school with plans for

506
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,799
good life. That summer, she worked at an elementary school

507
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,480
in East Cleveland, helping run youth programs and earning respect

508
00:31:27,519 --> 00:31:30,880
from teachers and neighbors. She was last seen alive on

509
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:36,079
July tenth, twenty thirteen, leaving school after her shift, but

510
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,519
she never made it home. They met somewhere in the

511
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:44,279
previous weeks and started texting. Michael lied, saying he was

512
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,839
twenty five with no children. When they opened the garage door,

513
00:31:49,279 --> 00:31:54,000
thousands of flies swarmed in the putrid air. Officers moved

514
00:31:54,039 --> 00:31:58,559
the bags containing her remains, and a trail of decomposition

515
00:31:58,759 --> 00:32:03,720
fluid left them mind of brown, gray, red, and yellow,

516
00:32:04,039 --> 00:32:07,200
flowing like a dirty river on the concrete in front

517
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,920
of it. It was one of the most gruesome crime

518
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,440
scenes they'd ever laid their eyes on. She died from

519
00:32:13,799 --> 00:32:20,039
ligature strangulation, and investigators also noted a severe vaginal laceration

520
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,200
consistent with sexual assault while she was still alive.

521
00:32:25,119 --> 00:32:29,039
Speaker 24: Sirelda's my angel. Well, everybody called her Sirella. I called

522
00:32:29,039 --> 00:32:32,640
her heaven. That's good, I called I called my kids.

523
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,240
According how to act, I mean, that's my heaven. So

524
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,200
to me, he took mine. She's a praise dancer, she's

525
00:32:41,359 --> 00:32:43,960
she's a holy person. She's heavy into the church, and

526
00:32:44,079 --> 00:32:46,160
she's she's my reader, my bookworm.

527
00:32:46,759 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: It didn't take long for Michael to be arrested and

528
00:32:49,039 --> 00:32:52,880
brought in for questioning, but it came after a standoff

529
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,720
at his mother's house. DNA and circumstantial evidence were strong,

530
00:32:58,519 --> 00:33:01,359
but during questioning, Detective Hope to get some answers as

531
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,640
to why Michael had the spotlight.

532
00:33:04,759 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 14: For once.

533
00:33:06,079 --> 00:33:10,759
Speaker 1: He talked a lot, but not about what mattered, and

534
00:33:11,279 --> 00:33:17,559
he wasn't a loud, bragging type. Instead, he gave metaphors, quietly, parables,

535
00:33:18,359 --> 00:33:22,839
detached theories about the human condition. It was as if

536
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,880
the man accused of stuffing women into trash bags thought

537
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,720
he was there to give a philosophical lecture. And while

538
00:33:30,799 --> 00:33:37,839
detectives paused for timelines and names, Michael offered riddles and speculations.

539
00:33:38,759 --> 00:33:41,759
Speaker 3: You know, it's my first time realized just how different

540
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,240
Walsh life are land.

541
00:33:45,519 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: He said, on the west side, and we say included.

542
00:33:48,319 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 19: We go to school on the west side, the West

543
00:33:51,039 --> 00:33:51,480
High School.

544
00:33:51,559 --> 00:33:55,559
Speaker 17: Rabbite you know, Warge his wife and that's pretty good

545
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,000
minister that move here.

546
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,319
Speaker 2: And it was going pretty much you know, back in

547
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,720
my life, I've always you know, I told him myself.

548
00:34:06,079 --> 00:34:07,839
I told myself, I would like to stay up in

549
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:12,159
the country. He was on cent grade four or a

550
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,400
couple of cows. And see, you know what I'm saying

551
00:34:14,519 --> 00:34:20,199
for Ram so go, I would like to see the

552
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,199
Rams like you did. I think they had like the

553
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,480
most epot wrong the King Adam.

554
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,599
Speaker 16: The Ram thing you were going at it one time,

555
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:34,920
Mike banging lingon gooding up in the million.

556
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 10: Now like.

557
00:34:38,199 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 2: Like the Ram swagger?

558
00:34:40,039 --> 00:34:44,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, he really did just say, I like the Ram swagger.

559
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,760
The conversation shifted for a minute to the day police

560
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,760
picked him up. It was a sweltering day when police

561
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:56,000
moved to arrest him on July nineteenth, twenty thirteen. He

562
00:34:56,079 --> 00:34:58,840
happened to be at his mom's house on Chickasaw and

563
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:04,440
barricaded himself side for hours. Swat was called, and the

564
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,239
standoff ended only when officers used tear gas and broke

565
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,000
the door down to force him out. They asked him

566
00:35:12,519 --> 00:35:16,280
what he was thinking at the time. If it sounds garbled,

567
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,840
it's probably because of the cheeseburger he was eating.

568
00:35:20,599 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 2: Not really just running into my head. That's been really

569
00:35:23,559 --> 00:35:28,000
happy and pretty much this way out the wheel and

570
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,400
from a a cause, I've got to know it's my

571
00:35:30,519 --> 00:35:31,480
looking wheel from me.

572
00:35:32,159 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: This guy's maybe the chillest killer they've ever interviewed. He

573
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,599
went on to say that while police car sirens blared

574
00:35:40,679 --> 00:35:45,039
and lights flashed while voices boomed over the megaphone yelling

575
00:35:45,119 --> 00:35:47,639
for him to come out, he was listening to his

576
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:52,119
mother's wind chimes, smoking cigarette butts from the ash tray

577
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,400
and thinking about his childhood.

578
00:35:55,639 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 25: Always friends, family, no, finally every one who has done

579
00:36:01,559 --> 00:36:06,480
me gone worse than mom. Like you know, like thinking

580
00:36:06,559 --> 00:36:09,360
hart it Man, Like do you think if I really,

581
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,199
like if I really just just all out guide of

582
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,960
you my mother and her opinion.

583
00:36:15,679 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 2: And how she could feel. But you think I really

584
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,119
came out the door before that, you know what I'm saying,

585
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,559
before that door got hit like that kept up that

586
00:36:22,679 --> 00:36:23,119
door up.

587
00:36:23,519 --> 00:36:26,280
Speaker 16: Yeah, I'm saying like, and I'm not saying I that

588
00:36:26,639 --> 00:36:29,000
that's the reason that I didn't come out with like

589
00:36:29,119 --> 00:36:31,159
I said, and the family and her friends would do

590
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:31,800
the worst.

591
00:36:32,119 --> 00:36:35,079
Speaker 2: And you know I love her mother, but you know

592
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,039
she's when I her got to a point where I was,

593
00:36:39,159 --> 00:36:42,159
you know, really pretty much didn't care to see her again.

594
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,400
But you know, during a certain times when life, she

595
00:36:45,639 --> 00:36:47,599
was there for me. You know what I'm saying. You

596
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,400
know the whole thing was done for sex, appearance and

597
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:53,840
or before it. Don't hold it on it this donna

598
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:54,559
hold on to day.

599
00:36:54,679 --> 00:36:55,519
Speaker 8: You know we talking.

600
00:36:55,639 --> 00:36:57,159
Speaker 2: I put it all of that behind me.

601
00:36:58,159 --> 00:37:02,599
Speaker 1: But if I really at several points throughout the more

602
00:37:02,679 --> 00:37:07,519
than eight hours of interrogation, Michael alluded to a loveless

603
00:37:07,639 --> 00:37:12,719
childhood of neglect. According to him, his mother prioritized appearance

604
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,960
and money over him. As much as detectives wanted to

605
00:37:17,039 --> 00:37:19,840
make him comfortable and hear about his past. They still

606
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,559
had a job to do, and it wasn't to be

607
00:37:22,679 --> 00:37:24,119
a therapist for a killer.

608
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 8: We start at the beginning, when I was born, Start

609
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,719
at the beginning. Whenever you want to start this is

610
00:37:32,599 --> 00:37:35,400
this is your opportunity kill me.

611
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:43,079
Speaker 2: Okay, what is good? Came got before? Yeah? Well, when

612
00:37:43,199 --> 00:37:45,800
I called a saying that they wanted the body in

613
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,000
the garage, a play.

614
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 10: On so on.

615
00:37:51,519 --> 00:37:53,079
Speaker 19: Hey mm hmm.

616
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,199
Speaker 2: People have called me to say they know me to

617
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,639
be around here, and that where you live.

618
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 15: Aft.

619
00:38:02,639 --> 00:38:08,079
Speaker 1: Let's answer that, yes, that's it. That's where Michael lived.

620
00:38:09,039 --> 00:38:12,239
But all of a sudden it was not really his place.

621
00:38:13,159 --> 00:38:15,880
His baby mama's name was on the lease, and people

622
00:38:16,039 --> 00:38:18,960
just sort of came and went all helping pay the

623
00:38:19,039 --> 00:38:23,920
bills together somehow in some sort of weird collective. You know,

624
00:38:24,119 --> 00:38:27,960
anybody could have been there, anybody could have had access

625
00:38:28,039 --> 00:38:28,760
to that garage.

626
00:38:29,559 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 26: Michael, I don't know if you had conversation with the

627
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:38,719
commander about I was the last the last sha. However,

628
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:43,480
has I been over in your spot with an organization

629
00:38:43,599 --> 00:38:46,000
called BCA. I don't know you know what BCA has done.

630
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,480
You never watch any of the CSI shows.

631
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:56,280
Speaker 27: Whatever something happens, you leave intentionally or and intentionally, you

632
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:01,719
leave stuff behind, whether it be DNA evidence, fingerprints, blood.

633
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 8: We'll give you the opportunity to tell you said the story.

634
00:39:04,519 --> 00:39:07,119
Speaker 27: Man, Okay, but please don't don't sit here.

635
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 10: And sell me. All right.

636
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 27: I've been spend the least seven hours process in your apartment.

637
00:39:12,639 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 19: I know the evidence in your apartment. I know the

638
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:20,960
evidence in your garage. I mean, please, please, please juve

639
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:21,800
me the courtesy of.

640
00:39:23,559 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 2: Listen.

641
00:39:24,559 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 19: I understand that people make mistakes. I told you before.

642
00:39:28,039 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 2: I'm not here to judge you.

643
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,199
Speaker 19: Well, please give me the courtesy of being an honest man.

644
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 2: All know me, though, but that you like you all

645
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:38,760
know me.

646
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 10: I know my.

647
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:46,039
Speaker 8: Rides my mind is because it's running to you know.

648
00:39:46,639 --> 00:39:49,039
Everybody says that you've lived there, and.

649
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 25: The repute over the information is report because we got

650
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:55,239
people that saw you.

651
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 18: In the apartment.

652
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: Man, He argued that he was in and out of

653
00:39:59,039 --> 00:40:02,880
the apartment and been in the garage for weeks. The

654
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,639
body was put in the garage less than a week before.

655
00:40:06,639 --> 00:40:09,760
All the detectives wanted was for him to fess up

656
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,280
and tell them what he did, and they weren't getting anywhere.

657
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,760
It was time to bring God into it.

658
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:17,679
Speaker 19: For you.

659
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 1: With God very an little did they know that they

660
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,639
had just made a massive overreach. This was the perfect

661
00:40:24,679 --> 00:40:26,159
opportunity for the suspect to.

662
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,119
Speaker 2: Preach all I want, That's all I got for you,

663
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,159
That's all I ever had a guy. So then you

664
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,360
believe in an annoyed and role right, and I also

665
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,599
believe in the chest gang here on earth where you

666
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,440
met at Dublin and you have died, Hill is right

667
00:40:47,519 --> 00:40:50,559
here on earth like you, like you, no.

668
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 16: Marrier who was a reverend, a past or, a deacon

669
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,800
like you are not without seeing like you saying he's

670
00:41:00,039 --> 00:41:04,559
and like no one, whether it be police, pastor, no

671
00:41:04,679 --> 00:41:07,039
one can tell me that without saying no one can

672
00:41:07,119 --> 00:41:09,360
tell me that they have never committed a sin, never

673
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,920
broken the law, whether they be misdemeanor.

674
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,559
Speaker 25: Or suddenly somebody, like everybody had a frown type of

675
00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:17,039
skeleton they call cause.

676
00:41:17,679 --> 00:41:18,519
Speaker 2: And whether it be.

677
00:41:18,679 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 19: Pastor or chief of police, like you know, throw a name.

678
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:24,199
Speaker 2: On me skeletons.

679
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,599
Speaker 19: Skeletons can be as big as the name, like chief

680
00:41:27,639 --> 00:41:30,800
of police and his skeletons can be just as big

681
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:32,800
as say Anthony so.

682
00:41:33,039 --> 00:41:35,599
Speaker 2: Will, all the way down to the little girls just

683
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:36,679
leaving their care like.

684
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 19: No one like, yeah, no, it's to God, and I

685
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:42,880
know you know what I'm saying.

686
00:41:45,559 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 2: It's I know it's good and I know it's bad.

687
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 1: They just let them keep talking. They let them draft

688
00:41:53,119 --> 00:41:56,840
through the vague philosophies and half baked sermons in his

689
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:01,360
little cabasa. According to him, no one wanted to hear

690
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:06,440
his story, the real story, quote unquote again, you'll never

691
00:42:06,679 --> 00:42:11,239
convince a retard. They're not a genius. He was fine

692
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,320
talking about literally everything except the murders.

693
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:22,519
Speaker 2: Good, listen to your story. The bingo dingo, we're here.

694
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:23,559
I don't want to hear this.

695
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 19: And we're the ones there ammunications.

696
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 2: Here that's doing your job job. They all disagree with you,

697
00:42:33,159 --> 00:42:36,119
like man, I you know, hate to seem like.

698
00:42:36,159 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 3: I'm litening to town or anything, but you know this

699
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,079
is like like I told you earlier, I might have

700
00:42:42,159 --> 00:42:43,360
to begin in line.

701
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 16: Of so sick that you don't want to go through

702
00:42:47,639 --> 00:42:50,039
you don't want to go through and probably you'll probably

703
00:42:50,079 --> 00:42:52,599
wouldn't wish on y'all worst enemy and I.

704
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,159
Speaker 2: Have just starting line up.

705
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 10: It's not like.

706
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,199
Speaker 2: It's not like we're giving you one of the if

707
00:43:00,199 --> 00:43:02,039
you are going to make it any.

708
00:43:02,039 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 8: Easier for you know what I want to do. I

709
00:43:05,559 --> 00:43:07,519
want to do the hardest thing that the police officer

710
00:43:07,639 --> 00:43:08,320
ever has to do.

711
00:43:09,519 --> 00:43:10,280
Speaker 10: Do you know what that is?

712
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 2: Go to work?

713
00:43:12,199 --> 00:43:16,519
Speaker 8: No, that's easy, going out there when people are doing

714
00:43:16,559 --> 00:43:21,079
bad things and catching them, chasing on them, playing with them, whatever, tas.

715
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 2: That's easy.

716
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,159
Speaker 8: I want to do the hardest job when I have

717
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:29,320
to go to somebody and say I'm sorry to tell

718
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,519
you this with your loved oness no longer with us,

719
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:33,239
they're dead.

720
00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:38,199
Speaker 1: This didn't face Michael. He just kept talking until everyone

721
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:42,079
in the room was No. It's a cool parlor trick

722
00:43:42,119 --> 00:43:44,719
if you could do it, politicians are great at it.

723
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,079
It's a shame though he didn't talk until he was numb,

724
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,760
because you would have already been there a long time ago.

725
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:59,599
Speaker 2: I'm no, surely no, surely not, surely. I'm not expecting

726
00:43:59,639 --> 00:44:05,360
to be heard. You know some uh what you say,

727
00:44:05,599 --> 00:44:08,000
prepared for the worst, hope for the best prepared for

728
00:44:08,079 --> 00:44:11,480
the worst, like whatever the worst.

729
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 19: He is, Like, I know, it's still like it's not

730
00:44:14,159 --> 00:44:15,800
like I'm about to go to war.

731
00:44:16,159 --> 00:44:19,280
Speaker 2: How I'm about to be shooting and shit going to war.

732
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,119
I'm about to get in front of him, Jill. It's

733
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,920
around other criminals. That's what I'm saying, is man, like,

734
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,400
I don't I feel. I feel nothing. I feel. It's

735
00:44:28,559 --> 00:44:32,000
not a damn thing, Like I'm sort of heroine.

736
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,679
Speaker 19: It's like I said, man, this shit like it's this

737
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:37,119
this this world.

738
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 25: That we live in, like from generals in the army

739
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,760
to tennis comaratus, Like how you.

740
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,599
Speaker 2: Think some of these wars is one of 'em?

741
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 19: He just send somebody yat on the front line, knowing.

742
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 16: That these dudes ain't gonna come back, ain't even supposed

743
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:52,920
to even come back.

744
00:44:53,639 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: For the record, Michael was never in the military. He

745
00:44:57,039 --> 00:44:59,519
was just pulling out all the stops to make his case,

746
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:04,280
even by stealing valor, even though he hadn't admitted to

747
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,480
anything yet. He knew they had him, so he would

748
00:45:08,599 --> 00:45:12,880
just hint at the motive, which was I was neglected.

749
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,719
Nobody ever listened to me. My baby Mama nags me

750
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,199
all the time because I don't have a job. Why

751
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,880
she makes me feel less than a mad women all

752
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:24,719
want one thing?

753
00:45:25,639 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 15: Why?

754
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: Why?

755
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:28,119
Speaker 15: Why?

756
00:45:29,559 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: Holy shit? What an insufferable asshole.

757
00:45:32,639 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 25: I hope it serves as a way could be females

758
00:45:38,639 --> 00:45:40,360
stop trying them up.

759
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,519
Speaker 2: Guys over you know what I'm saying.

760
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 8: That wasnake fuck to go oh, I mean, other than

761
00:45:47,039 --> 00:45:51,159
the regular unnecessarily, But it's gonna it's gonna serve at

762
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:51,639
some point.

763
00:45:52,119 --> 00:45:54,599
Speaker 19: It's gonna tan. It's gonna be some type of sake

764
00:45:54,679 --> 00:45:57,599
of small love.

765
00:46:00,639 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 2: Just only what is about. I don't know what the about.

766
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 25: I don't know, but you know, good percentage of us

767
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:08,920
see good wives running self for rid.

768
00:46:10,159 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 1: Then, out of the blue, probably because they were so

769
00:46:14,159 --> 00:46:17,719
numb from the talking, the cops flipped the switch and

770
00:46:18,079 --> 00:46:19,320
asked him point blank.

771
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:20,679
Speaker 8: First time you were killed?

772
00:46:20,679 --> 00:46:26,159
Speaker 19: Anybody hear the parson that wout? I answer your questions?

773
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 2: Why a request.

774
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 19: Kill me?

775
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:36,760
Speaker 2: A couple of bugs? Somebody ain't there? Killed nobody?

776
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 1: But that was a lie. In an obscured part of

777
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:47,199
the interview that's barely audible, unfortunately, he admits to strangling

778
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:51,079
one of the women. He was annoyed that she wouldn't

779
00:46:51,159 --> 00:46:53,920
leave and felt like she was trying to take advantage

780
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:58,360
of him in some way. He was drunk, and all

781
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,920
he remembered was putting his hand around her neck. He

782
00:47:02,079 --> 00:47:05,559
never said she died, but he never said her name.

783
00:47:06,559 --> 00:47:09,280
Later he claimed he found a body in a garbage

784
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:13,000
bag and carried it down to the garage, but he

785
00:47:13,119 --> 00:47:16,480
never put it in there. It was a mirage of pieces,

786
00:47:17,519 --> 00:47:21,440
but the pieces corroborated the evidence, and it didn't take

787
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,639
a genius to fill in the missing pieces.

788
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:28,159
Speaker 8: You could be the man right now, let's do it, Mike.

789
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:32,199
I know, I know you've got power. Now, what do

790
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:33,039
you think I mean, Mike?

791
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,159
Speaker 2: No, he's never really being clear with you.

792
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 19: You kind of.

793
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:39,639
Speaker 8: You know what we found yesterday?

794
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 10: Right?

795
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 8: Think about what I found today, Mike. What were you

796
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,119
talking about here today? He said they're gonna.

797
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:48,519
Speaker 2: Learn, We're to teach.

798
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 19: They deserve it.

799
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,079
Speaker 2: I just talk about the start that the learys.

800
00:47:55,559 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 8: No, I'm Mike, you aren't. And I was sitting there

801
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,320
trying to put it all together. And after you, we

802
00:48:02,639 --> 00:48:06,440
took you back downstairs yesterday started Ruth and I and

803
00:48:06,559 --> 00:48:10,639
started Gardener. We sat down in my office and we

804
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,559
talked for a long time and we just were trying

805
00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:14,119
to figure out what.

806
00:48:14,199 --> 00:48:15,119
Speaker 2: You were tryna tell us.

807
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 8: And the eye in certain Ruth know now which exactly.

808
00:48:20,039 --> 00:48:20,639
Speaker 2: What you were saying?

809
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 8: Bro, Mike, I know now we jumped right in like

810
00:48:25,079 --> 00:48:27,920
we found it. I found out you're you're the man?

811
00:48:28,679 --> 00:48:29,639
Speaker 2: Do you want bullshitting?

812
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 19: You know?

813
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,519
Speaker 2: I was h you know for the Englis You're not

814
00:48:34,639 --> 00:48:37,840
really telling you what? Mike? What is he saying? I got?

815
00:48:38,039 --> 00:48:39,199
Speaker 19: I got, I got another body.

816
00:48:39,679 --> 00:48:41,280
Speaker 8: I thought you were kind of blown to smoke up

817
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,320
my ass yesterday me and Gardner and Ruth were talking

818
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:45,960
about it, and I thought you were blowing smoke up

819
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:46,800
my ass yesterday.

820
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:48,599
Speaker 19: I said, I don't know.

821
00:48:49,079 --> 00:48:51,800
Speaker 10: I said, said, wait, I think I think he's telling

822
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,199
me just by his body language, just by a demeanor,

823
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:56,239
some of the things you were saying.

824
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,639
Speaker 8: You say, you're talking outside of your mouth. I think

825
00:48:58,679 --> 00:49:01,320
that that was that we should want to tell your story.

826
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,159
And I'm giving you an opportunity now to do it.

827
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,679
And I'm telling you I believe you now. I got

828
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:10,480
a half assed believed you yesterday, and I'm believing you

829
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:11,760
one hundred percent now.

830
00:49:12,519 --> 00:49:15,280
Speaker 2: So you ain't. We ain't even how his one body

831
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:19,320
he combo something totally different now.

832
00:49:20,639 --> 00:49:24,679
Speaker 8: Whichever one you want to talk about, MIKEE. It ain't one,

833
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:25,199
it ain't two.

834
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:27,119
Speaker 14: Let's do us all away run.

835
00:49:28,039 --> 00:49:32,599
Speaker 1: Michael barely flinched. He had admitted to having dates to

836
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:36,760
his apartment and getting so shitfaced that he didn't remember

837
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,400
them leaving. He confessed to putting his hands around one

838
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,119
of the women's necks and awakening to find a body

839
00:49:43,559 --> 00:49:48,159
in a garbage pack. That's bad. But even now, when

840
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:53,480
confronted with more evidence and yet another body, he deflected.

841
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:58,440
The detectives were running out of patience, and now they

842
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,960
didn't just want to know why he killed. They wanted

843
00:50:02,039 --> 00:50:05,079
to know how many more dead women would be found

844
00:50:06,079 --> 00:50:38,119
and where they were located. When they found the first

845
00:50:38,199 --> 00:50:42,159
body in East Cleveland in twenty thirteen, it was a

846
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:46,679
trash bag in a garage. The neighbors had smelt something.

847
00:50:47,599 --> 00:50:50,440
By the time the police arrived, the case was already strange.

848
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:55,760
The suspect, Michael Madison, was calm. He denied everything and

849
00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:00,440
admitted only enough to seem helpful. One woman, and he said,

850
00:51:00,679 --> 00:51:04,159
was dead, but he hadn't killed her. He found her

851
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:08,159
in a bag. He just moved her, That's all he claimed.

852
00:51:09,159 --> 00:51:11,920
But the evidence was there. They still didn't have a

853
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,199
clear motive, though, only a suspect who talked in metaphors

854
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:18,880
and acted like a victim all the time. This victim

855
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,880
was also a father of two and a stepfather to

856
00:51:23,199 --> 00:51:27,280
one quiet teenager named Jalen, who years later would erupt

857
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:30,920
into his own kind of violence in the same house

858
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:36,400
on Chickasaw Avenue. The violence from both men was directed

859
00:51:36,559 --> 00:51:42,280
only at women, the women who raised Michael and her grandson, Jalen,

860
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,400
and three other innocent women who just happened to cross

861
00:51:46,559 --> 00:51:47,360
the wrong path.

862
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:52,599
Speaker 10: Might you get the power? Obviously she disrespected you. Obviously

863
00:51:52,679 --> 00:51:56,719
she puts you into a position. Something happened, Bro, she

864
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:59,239
made you have to show her. And now all I

865
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,639
want you to do is to show me. We'll talk

866
00:52:01,679 --> 00:52:04,519
about whatever you wanna talk about. You wanna talk about

867
00:52:04,519 --> 00:52:06,519
the most recent only first, or you wanna talk about no,

868
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:08,000
whatever one you want.

869
00:52:08,079 --> 00:52:08,159
Speaker 8: Bro.

870
00:52:09,079 --> 00:52:13,119
Speaker 1: In this tiny blue interrogation room that resembled the prison cell,

871
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:18,519
detectives and Michael sat for hours on end, eating cheeseburgers

872
00:52:18,559 --> 00:52:23,760
from McDonald's as the questions came one after another. Well

873
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:29,280
the barred window raised, Michael smoked black and mild cigars.

874
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:33,519
The smoke mixing with the scent of sweat and making

875
00:52:33,559 --> 00:52:37,440
its way out the window to the sweltering streets of Cleveland.

876
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,119
They were finally coming to understand this killer.

877
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 17: And I guess even before you before here just you know,

878
00:52:46,079 --> 00:52:51,239
pretty much all light then at thirty five, with no

879
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:55,880
real background in school and no career, no four oh one.

880
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 2: Kay, kids a.

881
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 3: Big mom as far as even as they come. You know,

882
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,800
I'm a real like, I'm a real compassionate do and

883
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:10,000
kind of certain things, what kind of things, just know,

884
00:53:11,559 --> 00:53:13,639
people people.

885
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:17,800
Speaker 2: But somewhere along the way, I just lost like I

886
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:23,320
love like, I like, I love female. Nay, but a man,

887
00:53:25,039 --> 00:53:27,679
A man's a man's a man's man.

888
00:53:27,559 --> 00:53:31,519
Speaker 17: Who should never be compromised when it comes to a

889
00:53:31,639 --> 00:53:33,280
female who's never been a man.

890
00:53:34,159 --> 00:53:38,280
Speaker 1: It was a simple but disturbing statement. In that one sentence,

891
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:42,760
Michael revealed a cracked mirror of identity, pride, and resentment

892
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:47,800
against women. In twenty twenty five, especially, it's not unusual

893
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,719
to hear the voices of frustration from men who feel

894
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:56,679
diminished in relationships in society at large. Still, his words,

895
00:53:57,119 --> 00:54:02,639
the rapped in philosophical language, reveal a specific grievance. This

896
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:06,559
was a man whose sense of self had been shaped

897
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:11,400
and maybe shattered by the women around him. Still nothing

898
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:15,599
could justify the brutality that followed. He never offered a

899
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:19,639
formal confession, not in so many words, but he did

900
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:23,920
give what experts call a functional confession. That's when a

901
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:28,400
suspect doesn't technically admit guilt, but their behavior shows him.

902
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:32,039
They lead police to evidence only the killer would know.

903
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:38,159
They describe crime scenes in detail. They helped close the loop.

904
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:43,159
Think of Ted Bundy, who helped investigators find remains even

905
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:48,079
years after denying some of his murders, or Israel Keys,

906
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,199
who mapped out the burial site of one of his

907
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:55,639
victims despite refusing to name all of his crimes. It's

908
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:58,320
not in what they say, it's in what they do.

909
00:54:59,519 --> 00:55:05,480
Michael finally took detectives to the bodies. The first was

910
00:55:05,639 --> 00:55:11,320
Shirelda Terry, the body found in the garage, the young

911
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:16,599
girl just starting her life. Next was twenty eight year

912
00:55:16,639 --> 00:55:21,079
old Shatisha Sheili, who had a daughter. Her body was

913
00:55:21,159 --> 00:55:25,199
discovered in a brush pile near the garage behind Michael's apartment.

914
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:28,880
It was found in layers of heavy trash backs, the

915
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:33,559
same method used for the other victims. Forensic examination was

916
00:55:33,639 --> 00:55:38,559
limited due to decomposition, but there were signs of trauma

917
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:44,480
and possible strangulation. Shatisha had bruises on her face and

918
00:55:44,599 --> 00:55:48,559
her clothing had ligature marks. Last to be found was

919
00:55:48,679 --> 00:55:52,760
thirty eight year old Angela descons. She was discovered days

920
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:56,159
after the first body, in a musty basement of an

921
00:55:56,159 --> 00:56:00,719
abandoned house near Michael's apartment. Angelo was a quiet woman

922
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,960
with a soft voice, trying to piece her life back together.

923
00:56:05,079 --> 00:56:08,400
She had once worked as a hairdresser, someone who brought

924
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:12,320
beauty to others, but she struggled to get by and

925
00:56:13,039 --> 00:56:17,320
pull her own life together. Someone introduced her to Michael.

926
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:21,920
He seemed somewhat safe enough and had a calm personality.

927
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:24,159
That was all it took.

928
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 28: June seventh, they tell us, that's when they last saw Angela,

929
00:56:28,519 --> 00:56:30,840
and since then, they say they have been frantically searching

930
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,760
for her. But this week police confirmed their worst fear

931
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:38,719
that cops had found her body, that thirty eight year

932
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:42,199
olds of body. Investigators right now aren't saying how she died.

933
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:46,480
Cops discovered her remains in a backyard Saturday near Shaw Avenue.

934
00:56:46,599 --> 00:56:50,079
Now Knew this morning. A statement from the family quote

935
00:56:50,159 --> 00:56:53,639
Angela Daskins was a beautiful, sweet, kind hearted woman. She

936
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:57,280
was raised in Novelty, Ohio, by her father, Robert Daskins,

937
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:01,840
and her stepmother, mother Linda Skins. Everyone who knew her

938
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,719
loved her. She was a wonderful daughter, sister, and anne

939
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,599
who truly cared about her family and friends. She has

940
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:10,320
loved so much and will be missed by everyone who

941
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:10,800
knew her.

942
00:57:11,679 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 1: In the days after Michael's arrest, neighbors were quick to

943
00:57:15,599 --> 00:57:19,199
share their memories, not about him, but about his mother,

944
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:23,880
Diane Madison, and what she'd been through. Everyone spoke highly

945
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:24,159
of her.

946
00:57:24,719 --> 00:57:26,519
Speaker 13: I want her to be remembered as someone who cared

947
00:57:26,559 --> 00:57:30,000
deeply for her children, someone who cared passionately about her community.

948
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,199
Speaker 21: She was just a fine person. I am a better

949
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:35,039
person for having known her.

950
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 1: Michael loved his mother. He admitted this openly, but he

951
00:57:40,559 --> 00:57:44,159
also alluded to neglect. What he didn't do in the

952
00:57:44,239 --> 00:57:48,800
interrogation was throw her under the bus, but the defense

953
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:52,880
did that for him at the trial. The trial formerly

954
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:58,159
started in April of twenty sixteen. By early May, Madison

955
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:02,880
had been convicted on all counts, three counts of aggravated murder,

956
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:06,400
three counts of kidnapping, three counts of gross abuse of

957
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:10,000
a corpse, three counts of rape, and one count of

958
00:58:10,119 --> 00:58:14,679
possession of criminal tools. The following week, the court turned

959
00:58:14,719 --> 00:58:18,800
to mitigation evidence, opening the door for a glimpse into

960
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:24,440
Michael's upbringing. Underneath the calm exterior of the woman next door,

961
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:29,559
the community activist and loving mother and grandmother, the defense

962
00:58:29,599 --> 00:58:35,400
painted an entirely different portrait. They described Diane as cruel, neglectful,

963
00:58:35,639 --> 00:58:40,840
and violently abusive. Michael's attorneys revealed years of torment that

964
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:45,920
started in childhood, documented by an expert clinical psychologist who

965
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:51,239
evaluated Michael and examined his records. They said Diane beat

966
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,480
him regularly, locked him in closets, and even forced him

967
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:58,920
to eat feces. It didn't stop there, the defense told

968
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:03,280
the court, he was also sexually abused and emotionally abandoned.

969
00:59:04,039 --> 00:59:08,159
They argued that Diane's abuse left scars so deep that

970
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:12,320
they helped shape the monster he would later become. During

971
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:18,360
the victim impacts statement given by Shilda's father, chaos broke

972
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:22,079
out in the courtroom when, for some reason he stopped

973
00:59:22,159 --> 00:59:26,880
mid sentence and lunged across tables towards Michael. He started

974
00:59:27,039 --> 00:59:30,760
attacking him and had to be pulled off. His sister

975
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:33,719
later clarified what happened at that moment.

976
00:59:34,119 --> 00:59:36,719
Speaker 23: They're the sentency. You have the families there, and they're

977
00:59:36,719 --> 00:59:39,039
pouring out their hearts and saying how they're going to

978
00:59:39,079 --> 00:59:41,400
miss their families and what their families meant to him,

979
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:45,320
And he sent over there smiling, which caused my brother

980
00:59:45,639 --> 00:59:49,239
to launch at him. To him, he heard, fucked the door,

981
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:52,760
excuse me, okay, the life of my daughter, the life

982
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:55,800
of my niece, the life of our baby whom we

983
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:56,519
caught heaven.

984
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:57,719
Speaker 14: Okay.

985
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 23: So it was horrible to be that close, to have

986
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,280
to breathe his air, to be in the same room

987
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,639
with a person that is so horrible and don't even care.

988
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,880
He don't care. He was laughing, which he gave him

989
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:10,679
the death penalty.

990
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,599
Speaker 1: You heard it at the end of the trial. No

991
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:18,599
mitigating circumstances were going to stand in the way of justice.

992
01:00:19,639 --> 01:00:23,719
Michael Madison has now spent nearly a decade on Ohio's

993
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:28,480
death row. He was sentenced on June second, twenty sixteen,

994
01:00:29,519 --> 01:00:33,639
and was scheduled to die by lethal injection on May twentieth,

995
01:00:34,039 --> 01:00:42,320
twenty twenty one, but an unofficial moratorium on executions installed

996
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:46,760
all lethal injections in Ohio since twenty twenty. Want to

997
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:53,159
know why, Well, they're waiting for an alternative execution method

998
01:00:53,239 --> 01:00:57,199
in place of lethal injection. You see, they can't get

999
01:00:57,239 --> 01:01:01,639
their hands on the right drugs to make the deadly cocktail.

1000
01:01:02,519 --> 01:01:05,840
They could put dogs and cats to sleep all day long,

1001
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:08,760
all the strays, put them all to sleep in a

1002
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:13,719
humane way, we're told, But they can't get the cocktail

1003
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:18,719
right for humans. Isn't that strange. It's almost as if

1004
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:22,960
they don't want to and are just hiding behind some

1005
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:28,800
bullshit regulation in order to not do it, despite what

1006
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:34,559
the populace might have voted for already. Doesn't sound very democratic,

1007
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:39,840
does it anyway. For now, this asshole is still alive,

1008
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:45,159
as the system that condemned him sits frozen in time,

1009
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:48,199
almost by design.

1010
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:54,719
Speaker 29: I am struck by the sheer inhumanity of what one

1011
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:59,679
human being could do to that one but three human beings.

1012
01:02:00,559 --> 01:02:02,159
It is incomprehensible.

1013
01:02:03,199 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 30: You cajoled Lord and deceased Satisha Shieling, Angela Deskins, and

1014
01:02:10,519 --> 01:02:14,440
child Terry to your apartment for your depraved purposes. You

1015
01:02:14,519 --> 01:02:17,599
went on to abuse the corpses of these three victims.

1016
01:02:18,559 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 29: You stripped them from the waist down.

1017
01:02:22,159 --> 01:02:25,880
Speaker 31: You folded them in half, finding them so that their

1018
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:29,559
feet were up by their ears. You wrapped them in

1019
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:33,840
multiple layers of trash bags, and you discarded them.

1020
01:02:34,679 --> 01:02:38,599
Speaker 1: This killer didn't just kill out of nowhere. His crimes

1021
01:02:38,639 --> 01:02:44,400
were monstrous, but they happened after unresolved festering thoughts from

1022
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:49,039
a long, entangled legacy of suffering. Then you add the

1023
01:02:49,079 --> 01:02:54,000
alcohol and possibly drugs, and poof, you get a certain

1024
01:02:54,039 --> 01:02:59,519
scale episode lucky you. Decades later, in a cramped Cleveland apartment,

1025
01:02:59,559 --> 01:03:04,599
a young Michael was beaten, locked in closets, humiliated, and

1026
01:03:04,679 --> 01:03:08,199
allegedly forced to eat feces by the very person who

1027
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:13,079
was supposed to protect him, his mother, Diane Madison, a

1028
01:03:13,159 --> 01:03:18,000
woman the public celebrated after her death. Later, he was

1029
01:03:18,119 --> 01:03:22,599
allegedly sexually abused by one of her boyfriends. Michael felt

1030
01:03:22,679 --> 01:03:26,119
emotionally discarded and shot through the cracks of a system

1031
01:03:26,199 --> 01:03:30,880
that barely noticed he was falling. Then came to Nea Plummer,

1032
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:34,840
the mother of his child, who, according to Michael, belittled

1033
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:38,719
him and called him less than a man. A man's manhood,

1034
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:42,840
he said, should never be compromised by a female who's

1035
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:46,360
never been a man. That quote me sound absurd on

1036
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:50,199
the surface, but beneath it lies a cold bit of truth,

1037
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:54,599
one that points to a deeper identity crisis, especially among

1038
01:03:54,719 --> 01:04:00,719
men raised in trauma by women who are in trauma themselves.

1039
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:06,599
It's a warped belief, born in pain and shaped by powerlessness.

1040
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:09,599
It's an endless sloop. I don't know how the fuck

1041
01:04:09,679 --> 01:04:12,519
we get out of Do you have any ideas?

1042
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:13,559
Speaker 8: Now?

1043
01:04:13,639 --> 01:04:18,199
Speaker 1: Then came Jalen, Diane's grandson, the quiet boy who watched

1044
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:22,440
all of this unfold, who once lived under the same

1045
01:04:22,599 --> 01:04:27,679
roof as Michael. In twenty nineteen, Jalen, just eighteen years old,

1046
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:32,639
would creep into Diane Madison's home and stab her to

1047
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:36,599
death in her own bed. He didn't just kill her,

1048
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:42,400
he nearly decapitated her. He pleaded guilty in twenty twenty

1049
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:46,320
one and is serving a life sentence with eligibility for

1050
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:51,880
parole in thirty years. His brother, sister, cousin, and sad

1051
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:56,159
little dog all survived the incident and remained in the

1052
01:04:56,320 --> 01:05:00,960
care of their mother to Nia plumber. So here is

1053
01:05:01,079 --> 01:05:06,239
the question. Did Jalen inherit the same demons that haunted

1054
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:12,159
Michael was this demonic possession some sort of poltergeist in

1055
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:15,800
this house of horror? Or do we accept a more

1056
01:05:16,079 --> 01:05:22,159
rational explanation. Did Jalen learn violence by watching his uncle

1057
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:26,079
in and out of his life, bringing stories of abuse

1058
01:05:26,199 --> 01:05:30,719
and death with him. Did Diane really change into the

1059
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:35,000
person neighbors claimed, or did the darkness inside that house

1060
01:05:35,119 --> 01:05:41,440
simply go unnoticed until it exploded again? Did the systems

1061
01:05:41,519 --> 01:05:45,800
America has in place fail both of these men, or

1062
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:50,360
did society simply stop asking the hard questions and stop

1063
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:55,559
doing the hard things once the bodies were found In

1064
01:05:55,639 --> 01:06:01,119
the end, does it all really matter anyway? It should?

1065
01:06:02,159 --> 01:06:05,559
We all have this feeling in the back of our

1066
01:06:05,639 --> 01:06:10,039
mind that it should. We should do better at raising

1067
01:06:10,519 --> 01:06:13,679
all of our children. We should have a safer and

1068
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:19,639
happier and more mentally sound civilization. It started with the

1069
01:06:19,719 --> 01:06:23,920
allegations of abuse at the hands of one woman. Two

1070
01:06:24,039 --> 01:06:28,480
men carried it forward, and three innocent women, in addition

1071
01:06:28,559 --> 01:06:33,360
to Diane herself, paid the ultimate price. Not one of

1072
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:55,039
them deserved to die. That's going to do it this week.

1073
01:06:55,119 --> 01:06:57,119
Thank you for joining us. I invite you to go

1074
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:00,639
check out our latest episode of Sword Scale Television entitled

1075
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:03,880
Home Easily one of the most fucked up things you'll

1076
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:04,440
ever see.

1077
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:05,519
Speaker 2: I promise