Speaker 1: Welcome to soft core history.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to self core History. I'm your host for
the week, Damn Regester, joined as always by Rob Fox.
Speaker 1: Happy Mother's Day, my wife, who I left alone.
Speaker 2: To do this show. Congrats, dude, Sorry.
Speaker 1: Bab we gotta work. I'll go to work. Did you
like your president that you bought yourself? What are you
gonna fuck? Pray for it? She's crying.
Speaker 2: See you're going through it.
Speaker 1: Woke the kids up from a nap, just screaming at her.
But I made an Instagram post that was really nice.
Speaker 2: That's all you needed to all that matters Flowers Instagram
post the amount of Peamaker not have to cook breakfast?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Do you think women one hundred years ago felt so
ballsy chewing their husband's out for going to work as
women do tend to do these days.
Speaker 1: Oh boy, Jack Manvil's here by the Yeah.
Speaker 2: That other voice you hear is Jack Mandiville. I can
host Rob Okay, okay, but yeah, Jack, thank you for
coming in on Mother's Day.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. Yeah, there's a big sacrifice
on my part. I had to call my mom for
fifteen minutes today and I'm here.
Speaker 2: I haven't done that yet I will.
Speaker 3: Oh it's important. And plus she's East coast, so she's
she's an hour ahead. Yeah, you're really ticking down.
Speaker 2: It's more of a dinner time call, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, all right, I agree, Yeah, dinner or morning.
Speaker 1: But I can never call my parents in the morning
because they're at church. So like by the time I'm
conscious enough to fucking do anything, which is like ten am,
Like I'm awake at six forty five, but I basically
just lay down on the couch in the playroom and
I'm like play, just play, and just like fall asleep.
Speaker 3: Well, the good news is you got a whole little
clan where they can entertain themselves. They don't necessarily need
you at this point.
Speaker 1: As soon as the baby is good to go, I'm
just on an autopilot. Yeah, because they'll just beat the
shit out of each other while I take a.
Speaker 3: Nap and they'll be self. They'll they'll police themselves, the
older one will you know, kind of enforce things. Yeah,
they'll start enforcing the rules. You sat down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I need to get there.
Speaker 2: I forgot to get my mother a gift today.
Speaker 1: I think the phone calls, the gift phone calls, the
gift phone calls, I'm the gift. Yeah, but I did
get Jack a gift from mothers.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. As I was thrifting this Ted Williams
Diamond Moments commemorative plate, and it just so happened. I
was like deep diving on him earlier today.
Speaker 2: We had a little connection.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's gonna live forever.
Speaker 1: Baby, his head is frozen. Yeah, it's good to go.
You just need to get the tech. TeX's not there yet.
He's a war hero.
Speaker 2: Probably would have way more records in baseball.
Speaker 3: Could arguably bean if he hadn't been interrupted those what five.
Speaker 1: Or six seasons in his prime in his prime.
Speaker 3: Could arguably if he would have had those seasons, we
could definitely say he would have quite possibly been considered
the greatest baseball player of all time. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he got basically robbed of of what, yeah, five
seasons in his prime and then like honestly, like you know,
he robbed himself because he went back. He was like,
y'all do Korea.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And he was an officer, like you know,
you know, you can just resign your commission. You can
just leave if you want to. That's kind of the
rules about being.
Speaker 1: An officer duty calls. Yeah, because I don't think he
didn't get any bodies in World War Two. He didn't
really know, he didn't really do anything in World War
two like you. Yeah, Korea is where.
Speaker 3: He he got down. Uh three air medals, which three
or four? No five? No five air medals, which means
he did over twenty five.
Speaker 1: Missions, which is nuts in a fighter jet, in.
Speaker 3: A fire jet. And you know who his wingman was
for a substantial point, John Glenn, John Glenn. Yeah, two
all American iconic figures flying side.
Speaker 1: By side, God fucking damn it.
Speaker 3: And he and he had a couple and Williams had
a couple real close calls.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he got a couple of kills too, I believe.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, air to air.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't even know what he killed on
the ground, but air at air, I know he had
a couple takedowns.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 1: That's a fucking dude.
Speaker 3: And then came back and won the fucking batting time. Yep.
Speaker 1: I believe they said there's like a I don't know
if it's true or not, but I read once or
someone told me once that he had basically like twenty
five vision, not twenty ten twenty ten's allegedly like perfect
human vision twenty twenties normal, and his vision was just
so insane that he could see the enemy planes coming
before anyone else. He was an eagle eye.
Speaker 3: Yeah, probably from his Mexican side. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
people forget he his mother was Mexican.
Speaker 1: He's Californian, right, He's from San Diego. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, we're gonna talk about another dead eye today. That's
a transition in the business. Boys love to hear it.
Speaker 1: We're going to the wild West. I feel like that's
one of your wells. Now. It is Peep peep peo,
China in the wild West.
Speaker 2: That's all I got.
Speaker 3: Can I ask, oh, I love you guys, Chinese episode.
Can I tell you before I'm so, I don't want
to interrupt, Can I tell you my That's what.
Speaker 1: The show is. The show is just to interrupt. Yeah,
you're here to interrupt.
Speaker 2: It cares about the actual topic.
Speaker 3: Every morning, I wake up anywhere between six and seven,
and if I go cue up the sauna, uh do
my morning ritual. I sit in the sauna for twenty
minutes every morning. I get twenty minutes of you guys
every morning and then I shot with the showers right
next to the sauna, So so I get about half of
your episodes in every morning.
Speaker 1: Dude. Nice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of people can only handle me for
twenty minutes in real life.
Speaker 3: Can I be honest with you? Sense, Sometimes I get
so excited about a topic, and I love your guys's
voice on things, but you know, you guys have the
tendency to hit the topic that maybe around the ten
to fifteen minute mark, So sometimes I will fast forward
straight to the topic. I find your guys' lives intriguing
and I love knowing you and being friends with you,
But sometimes I'm just excited that you guys are talking
about you know a Russians are, and I just want
to get straight to the point.
Speaker 1: That's fair, that's fair.
Speaker 2: That's probably why we're not more successful. Very good criticism.
Speaker 1: We will not take it though, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we
will continue to do the show as we do.
Speaker 3: Well, you're jumping right into it for this show, under ted,
I'm the one slowing it down today.
Speaker 2: No, today we're going to talk about bass.
Speaker 1: Read oh yeah, oh hell yeah.
Speaker 3: This is the first time I haven't known the topic
coming into a show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we usually tell Jack, But uh, most guests we
don't tell didn't tell him today. I figured we'd have
to have a man with such illustrious like lip hair
to speak on Bass Reeves.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's Jack.
Speaker 3: He had a Western stash.
Speaker 2: And you're you're up there. You have one of the
better stashes that I know.
Speaker 3: If my mustache was any smaller, they would accuse me
of being a pedophile.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I gotta do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I gotta have the rugged western look because the
hairline's not helping me. Now.
Speaker 1: You know what my favorite Bass Reeves factoid is. I
don't know if you put it in this or not.
Speaker 2: Okay, you're already doubt of me. Go ahead, well, just.
Speaker 1: Because I don't know if he'll come up. You know
who one of his descendants is, tell us a direct descend,
direct descendant, noted NHL enforcer Ryan Reeves, no shit, direct descendant.
Speaker 2: He's got a couple of bass that are like professional athletes.
Speaker 3: Okay, I've been out of touch with hockey the last
few years. Is he a white guy or a black guy?
Speaker 1: Black guy who it will beat the shit out of you.
One of my favorite, one of my favorite blues moments
in history. When he played for the Blues. He just
he was in a series with the Stars. Just beat
the shit out of some Stars player. I think thereinforcer
blows a kiss to the Stars bench as they're taking
them off to the penalty box. Yes, so the blood
is strong in the Reefs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're both enforcers in their own rights.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I just think it's really cool. You're doing it on
a prominent black figure, not during Black History Month. That's
very progressive of you.
Speaker 2: I know, we tried that for like a year and uh,
it kind of fell flat. Yeah, we did an athlete
an artist, and you talked about how.
Speaker 1: Was the only one that wasn't like he played the
guitar or he played basketball. Basically did the society that
like no longer exists the land of Punt. Yeah, it's
where Egypt got all its treasure from.
Speaker 3: Like if Egypt south where they get darker.
Speaker 1: It was like yeah, it was like Ethiopia and Somalia,
like the Horn of Africa where they were at. So
if a pharaoh wanted some monkeys or some gold, whatever,
some wild shit to put in his his castle, his whatever, boom,
go to Punt get that wild.
Speaker 2: I'm just not about forcing race into everything. You know,
he's just a bad motherfucker.
Speaker 3: Yes, one hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, uh but some some
people think about that strategically where you're like, no, this
I just want to do this guy he's cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this guy's just is awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So Bass Reeves was born into slavery in eighteen thirty eight, Arkansas,
serving the family of State Legislator William Steele Reeves.
Speaker 1: I love that it was an actual like congressman. Yep,
I mean state congressman, I guess.
Speaker 2: But still probably better to be born into like higher society.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean we're most slave owners were you know,
there were.
Speaker 1: Well, the amount of people who owned slaves in the
South was pretty low.
Speaker 3: It was nine percent, I believe is then eight or
nine percent was the number. Yeah. And then they somehow
convinced all the poor whites to hate to be angry
not at them the rich people, but the poor black right.
Speaker 1: The rich people who, by the way, refused to modernize
the economy at all.
Speaker 3: And the poor whites suffered as a result. Yeah. Oh,
completely didn't get angry at the rich whites. They got
angry at the other poor people. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Reeves moved to Texas when Bass was eight,
and he would work the fields as a water boy
until he grew older and helped tend to the horses
and work as an apprentice with the blacksmith. He was
then taken as a companion for William's son.
Speaker 1: George R.
Speaker 2: Reeves, who was a tax collector, sheriff and eventual speaker
of the Texas House of Representatives.
Speaker 3: Were they run the same age, No, he's a little older.
Reeves was a little older.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2: Now Bass's responsibility would shift over time to be George's valet,
butler and even bodyguard.
Speaker 3: Okay, so he's learning some tricks of the trade.
Speaker 2: They grow to like each other, like as much as
you can like your slave owner.
Speaker 3: That's what happening with Jack Daniel and Nearest Green, who
was the first master distiller of Jack Daniel Nearest Green.
Basically as soon as slavery ended in eighteen sixty five,
Jack Daniel had grown up with this older slave. He's like, hey,
you want to come work for me? You can just
I'll be the jobs you'd be the Wozniak.
Speaker 1: Let's go. I mean, it's it's like tough for people
to admit, because I think it almost sounds like if
you say it, it's like a like you're like kind
of tacitly endorsing slavery or like saying slavery wasn't that bad,
but like these are human beings, obviously you're gonna develop
right then. Yeah, Like it's just like it doesn't mean
naturally being around somebody that long. Yeah, like it doesn't
mean slavery is good, but like they're humans.
Speaker 3: They were forced to be with each other. A friendship
came out.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it work right now, right, like you develop
a relationship with the people you work with. Yeah, yeah,
for better or worse. But during this period, Bass requested
permission to learn to read from George, which was denied, like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's slave out in one oh one, that's too
much power, right.
Speaker 2: However, George was like, I can't teach you how to read,
that's too dangerous, but I will teach you how to
fire a gun.
Speaker 1: Perfect Like a slave that can read, that's a lot.
But an illiterate with a literate gun owner, yeah, love that.
I'll teach you how to love that man a deadly weapon.
Can I give an alternate theory on this? Is that
it's easier to teach someone to shoot a gun than read.
And George was like, God, I don't want to do school. Yeah,
I'll just give you a gun. Yeah, because I already
dread like having to help my kids with their homework,
So like, yeah, I kinda I kind of get like
just being like, God, I don't want.
Speaker 3: To teach you to fuck, but you know how to
you know how, you know your way around a firearmy,
and so will they.
Speaker 2: Bass excelled right from the jump. And George would actually
enter him into shooting competitions and pocket the prize money.
Speaker 3: Well, what's the point of having a slave if you
can't put him into athletic competition and and pocket everything.
Speaker 1: The dog and the Kennel Classic or whatever, cash the check. No,
it's the fucking odor. And that's how they looked at.
Speaker 3: Because the dogs can't read.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Once the Civil War breaks out, George was commissioned as
a colonel in the eleventh Texas Cavalry. Bess would go
with him as a body servant and help out with
maintaining the Confederate camps.
Speaker 3: That's when when all those guys that are weirdly try
to justify certain things when they're like, well there were
a lot of blacks in the Confederate Army. I'm like, yes,
they were following their masters.
Speaker 2: Around right right, they're shining shoes, like they get back
taking ditches.
Speaker 1: They get back from a battle and they're like, we won.
It was a glorious day. And every slaves like, yeah,
he did it, God damn it. He came back so heavy.
Speaker 2: That was until one fateful day when him and George
were playing give Him Poker, a little crazy late night
game of poker. They get into an argument and Bass
knocks his owner out cold.
Speaker 3: That's a death sentence.
Speaker 1: Kind of gotta just roll at that point.
Speaker 2: Apparently, I guess the soldiers around didn't see it. So
he's like, I need a high tail out of here.
So he makes a run for it. He's like, all right,
just knocked out my boy. No one's really gonna defend
me here.
Speaker 1: I gotta leave. So this was like while they were deployed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is during the Civil War.
Speaker 1: Well, at least hopefully there's some Union lines nearby, right,
you don't need to make a track. You don't need
to make a track across the so looking for help.
Yeah yeah, yeah, but like ther Point is like a
lot of slaves that escape, Like if you escape from
a Georgia plantation, you get a long way to go, better.
Speaker 2: To go to Indian territory. Actually, okay, turns out so
no one Georgia's soldiers would not take kindly to see
in their colonel unconscious at the feet of his slave.
Bass makes a run for it and ventures into Oklahoma
and Kansas.
Speaker 3: There old was he at this time out of curiosity.
Speaker 1: So that during the Civil War he was born in
thirty eight, okay, so pretty young, he's twenty. There.
Speaker 2: He comes across the Cherokee, the Creek, and Seminole nations,
learning their customs, languages, and tracking skills.
Speaker 3: And from what I understand, not with all necessarily all
native populations, but a lot of tribes were pretty open
to have having black guys show up and kind.
Speaker 4: Of as long as they're not the white man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He kind of goes off the map during this time,
and not much is known about his eighteen sixties. But
after the war was over and he was a free man,
he returned to Arkansas to farm with another former slave
that he took to his wife, Ginny, And there are
now four kids that he pumped into her.
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, oh wow, good right off the bat rob numbers.
Speaker 2: I mean you look at that stash and it's like
she was probably pregnant just looking at him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like an immediate like boom and mustaches were They
were probably as popular as beards were back then.
Speaker 1: Right, they're pretty poppy like Chamberlain had a good like
similar to yours.
Speaker 3: It can brush out.
Speaker 1: But most people did have I think beards over mustaches.
Speaker 3: What was ambro burnside? Would you classify that as a
mustache or a beard?
Speaker 1: Ooh, mustache and the burns.
Speaker 3: Because it was burnside?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just the longest mustache on earth.
Speaker 3: But typically mustaches don't connect with the sideburns, right, yeah,
I don't know that'd be a good debate heard or mustache.
Speaker 1: I think if it's not on the chin, you can't
call it a beard.
Speaker 3: Okay, So it can connect then with the sideburn yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: But if it doesn't touch chin, I don't know. I
don't think. I don't think that counts all right.
Speaker 3: Fair enough?
Speaker 2: Eighteen seventy started he started making some side cash as
a scout tracker for the US Marshall's office. With his
knowledge and connections in the Indian Territory. He turned that
into a full time gig. In eighteen seventy five, when
the hanging Judge Isaac Parker was appointed for the Native Territory.
Parker appointed James F. Fagan as US Marshall with two
hundred deputies under him.
Speaker 1: Damn, there's a big territory. Yeah, that's just a lot
of deputies.
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of bad dudes here in Oklahoma
in that it's the wild West, it's Oklahoma, it's Kansas
Otch City, that whole area.
Speaker 3: Yeah, even the law enforcement of that day were a
little gray and the good.
Speaker 1: Guy arena, including Reeves.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and not not because he was breaking any
like moral things, but like they would take things on
the side.
Speaker 1: And also it was pretty much a judge dread situation.
Speaker 3: You had to do what you had to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like it's your kind of judge Jerry and executioner
a lot of the times. Yeah, like there's not how
many how many horse do you's got a jury trial?
Speaker 3: Well, and because they run because they all operated in gangs.
So if you take them alive, you run the risk
of their gang coming to get you. Yeah, and try
to free them.
Speaker 2: So Fagan was wildly impressed with the stories he heard
about Bass, and Reeves became one of the first black
deputies to serve the west west of the Mississippi River.
There were a couple of others, but he's by far
the most prominent.
Speaker 3: There was an initial that sheriff of Milwaukee that's on
Fox News all the time?
Speaker 1: Yeah, really does that's modern bass?
Speaker 3: Reeves?
Speaker 1: Certainly doesn't he have like a reevesy and mustache too?
I think so? Yeah, I think he does.
Speaker 2: He probably bases his entire appearance, probably does.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, and he's got he's all decked out like he's
freaking Horatio Hornblower.
Speaker 1: With all the military medals, the general patent fucking what
do you call that?
Speaker 3: The ribbons stack?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now.
Speaker 2: There was an initial speed bump when Bass was arrested
in charge for a non job related assault with an
intent to kill Bud. He's found not guilty in April
of eighteen seventy five.
Speaker 1: And what about his business fucking.
Speaker 3: Qualified immunity man who was the jury of his peers,
other ex slaves or other cops?
Speaker 2: Shit, yeah, I think Isaac Parker, like every time he
gets brought up on charges Isaac Parker, who's the you know,
the judge of the entire territory, who's in essentially his
boss just lets him off.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no internal It was that like his sorry, yeah,
there's no internal affairs in this deputy program. They like you.
They're like, let's just keep doing your Yeah.
Speaker 3: Was this guy like his mentor Uh.
Speaker 2: Not Parker, but maybe Fagan was a little bit. Fagan
was the marshal that hired him, but uh, Judge Isaac
Parker also liked him, and he was known as the
hanging judge.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm gonna be real unprofessional quick. I'm gonna go
I saw some uh lucy's over there.
Speaker 1: I got I gotta go over there.
Speaker 3: I gotta have the nick right now.
Speaker 2: You gotta get some nicotine in you. That's fine, especially
when we're talking about the wild West.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, that's why I tosd on him for the show.
Speaker 2: Now, the old saying back in that time was there
was no Sunday West to Saint Louis and no God
beyond Fort Smith, Arkansas.
Speaker 1: Oh I love that. Yeah, I like that. I need
to just like get that on a throw pillow in
my home. There's no Sunday west to Saint Louis.
Speaker 2: Just get that tattooed on your arm. Yeah yeah, I
just thought that was a hard ass quote.
Speaker 1: That is a hard ass quote.
Speaker 2: And no God beyond Fort Smith.
Speaker 1: Which, by the way, Fort Smith not very far west,
no either, Saint Louis. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly Fort Smith is.
Speaker 3: Back then, that was that was it. Once you once
you went over that river, you were good luck everybody.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, Joe. Fort Smith is like where Fayetteville is.
Speaker 2: So the territory that the United States Court at Fort
Smith uh covered was about seventy five thousand square miles.
It's a big old land.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The capture of a wanted man or woman.
Speaker 2: Dead or alive would is obviously how he was compensated
for his his work. They would also get money for
miles traveled and reimbursed for any money they spent feeding
the criminals. Okay, not a bad gig, you know, yeah,
other than danger.
Speaker 1: Yeah, other than you might die going after a murderers.
And this was not a job for the week. Obviously.
Speaker 2: Only about twenty five percent of non natives in the
territory were law abiding citizens. Indian territory is where you
went to disappear and start over.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah. But also, I don't know that it's great
that you pay police on commission, like your pay like
a lot, your pay, your entire pay is based on
commission and your own Like you know how people abuse
like a company credit card when they're traveling. Yeah, that's
just how they're paying these I got the paperwork, yeah yeah, yeah,
they got all the receipts, everything you need right here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that wouldn't fly as much in modern policing.
Speaker 1: What if we let just cops only be black. Although,
doesn't it well that's Atlanta, the old Daniel Tosh joke. Yeah,
doesn't it fly though? I mean that you have like
a speeding ticket, quotas and shit like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think every municipality is different. But that does
seem to.
Speaker 2: Be a thing. It is, but they say it's not.
In the two decades that Isaac Parker was judged, over
one hundred deputies were killed in the line of duty.
In total, today, about three hundred deputies have died since
the inception of the US Marshall's Office, So about a
third of these deaths went down in these two decades
in that territory alone.
Speaker 1: Good lord. I mean they're just going after like psychotic criminals.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like you guys always say, you can kill
a cop and just move a couple counties over and yeah,
you're good, shave your mustache off.
Speaker 2: You can become the sheriff.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: There was a point in the journey known as the Deadline,
marked by a railroad track about eighty miles west of
Fort Smith, where outlaws would actually leave notes and threats
calling out but he's by name like bass Reeves.
Speaker 1: Oh, so they'd write there like hey, hey, bass Reeves,
I'm gonna shoot you in the face.
Speaker 3: This and this is this is coming out of post
Civil war Missouri where you want to talk about uh
state and I think you guys have covered this before.
You want to talk about a state that didn't play
by the rules of war, like it would have been
unconceive you know, shit happens in war, but it would
have been unconceivable for Lee or Grant to kill civilians
and stuff like that. Where in Missouri these were like
blood vendettas. These guys, these people were getting into they
were basically like terrorism.
Speaker 1: There were like two simultaneous civil wars happening in Missouri.
There was the normal civil war with you know, troops
and divisions and generals and stuff like that, because Missouri
had the third most battles in it, after Tennessee and Virginia.
Those were the two states of the most battles. Missouria
the third most battles. But there was that side of it,
and then there was also an entire guerrilla war going
on with terrorism, like literally just terrorism. Yeahah, literally from
boat from hashtag busts.
Speaker 3: And those guys needed to do something after the war too,
so I'd imagined, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And they didn't. They didn't want to go work at
a steel mill or something.
Speaker 3: No, they weren't moving up to Chicago for the economic opportunity.
Speaker 1: No, no, that dude. I mean we even covered uh
fucking Utah Mormon wars. Yeah, like it didn't matter where
you went west, like it was just open season.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 1: There were no there were no rules.
Speaker 2: No. Other than his vast knowledge of the land, his
ability to speak multiple native languages, and being an absolute
dead eye with his firearms, Bass was also a large
man for his time, standing at six to two, and it
was often noted how big his fucking hands were.
Speaker 3: His polls and guns were tiny, back then. Yeah, he
probably was like had as fit as mits over the
entire gun. That'd be like, you know, like Shacks does volunteer,
he does the volunteer ad he imagined like you know,
domestic disturbance call and Shack shows up up through your
front door. That probably what was like Bass Reeves rock
around good Older.
Speaker 2: Who author DC Gideon, who interviewed Reeves, wrote, his long,
muscular arms have attached to them a pair of hands
that would be comparable to a giant, and they handle
the revolver with ease and gray somehow.
Speaker 1: So basically he's like a one of the like when
you when you see like it in the NFL draft,
they like show a receiver's hands, like the guy's already big,
you know what I mean. But then they show the
hands and they belong to a man that's like twice
his size.
Speaker 2: I mean, you get in a fistfight with this guy,
it's like getting hit by concrete.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he just grabs your head actually and it's just
like squashed it. Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Always wearing a large hat, Reeves was usually a spiffy dresser,
with his boots polished to gleam and shine. He was
known for his politeness and courteous manner, but he also
was a good time that would wise crack jokes and
could hold his own with a bottle of whiskey or two.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's six too, he should be able to
take it down pretty deep.
Speaker 3: Like Andre a giant, He developed.
Speaker 2: A way to ride his horses to appear much smaller,
and would often disguise himself as a preacher, farm hand,
even an outlaw.
Speaker 1: That makes sense at the time too, because it's like, well,
I can't be a US Marshall. He's black, yeah, black, sure, yeah,
I mean, but then once you kind of get a reputation,
you're like, oh, that's fucking bass Reading, right, Eventually.
Speaker 3: Like oh fuck, it's a black eye on a horse
with a big mustage.
Speaker 1: Yeah shit.
Speaker 2: It was very identifiable, like he was not hiding very well, well.
Speaker 1: It can't be bass Reads. He got a collar on. Yeah,
that's the preacher. No, that's just that giant preacher that
we heard about. Callous his hand, yeah, and a gun.
Speaker 2: His weapons of choice were the Winchester Models eighteen seventy
three and eighteen ninety two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, lever action, motherfucker.
Speaker 2: He also briefly used the eighteen seventy three Colt single
action forty five caliber peacemaker. By protocol, Bass could not
venture into the territory alone. Most of these man hunts
involved entire posse's of deputies, scouts, guards, cooks, and it
was required the Bass had at least one other man
with him during his travels. A typical round trip would
be around eight hundred miles and they would often haul
back multiple outlaws at a time in their covered wagons.
Speaker 3: That would be such a good period buddy cop series,
The Black Marshal, the White Marshal and all the adventures
and all the silly adventures.
Speaker 1: They get on to kind of jango, right, they did
said with the django, But they did that also if
like a true like wacky comedy this he's a black
guy but Shanghai nun Oh. Yeah, yeah, they're like buddy
cops but in the West with I mean you just
turn on the money printing machine at that point to
a Bass Reeves.
Speaker 2: Kind of buddy cop with one of his Indian scouts. Yeah,
hit all the quotas, check the box.
Speaker 1: They did make a Bass show.
Speaker 2: They did basically just came out on Paramount plus.
Speaker 1: Yeah was isn't it with its with that actor who
rules from Westworld.
Speaker 3: I watched the first couple episodes. It was pretty good.
I thought it got naturally sidetracked, but it was I
should pick it up.
Speaker 2: So I actually came across this topic because I was
watching The Harder They Fall on Netflix twenty twenty one
Western with Idris Elba.
Speaker 1: Jonathan Major was playing bass Reeves.
Speaker 2: No, he played Rufus Buck, Okay, Majors play bass.
Speaker 1: Nope.
Speaker 2: Oh he played nat Love, the guy.
Speaker 3: That plays his next slave name right there.
Speaker 2: Uh. Delroy Lindo played bass reads Okay, who you would
know by his face?
Speaker 1: Oh? Actually a character, aacter.
Speaker 3: It's it's such a you know, and it happens with
obviously no shortage of white it happens with white actors
as well. But uh, there's so many black British actors
that are playing iconic American figures. And I'm not I'm
all for an actor doing an actor, but it's just
sometimes like this belongs to this roles for an American play.
Speaker 1: Do you want to talk about immigrants stealing jobs British actors? Oh?
Oh my god.
Speaker 3: I didn't even know Idris album was British until like
three years ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I kind of disappointed with the movie honestly, what
oh that it had? I mean it was loaded cast.
It just it kind of fell short. Yeah, it wasn't great.
Speaker 1: It was David o'wale you or however you say it,
who played Baths Reeves in the Taylor Sheridan Show. Actually,
but that was like Bass Read's bad motherfucker. I needed
to look into this guy. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Bass's personal record at a time was seventeen men. So
he hauled up seventeen men and took him.
Speaker 3: Back, probably not even counting people he probably killed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, since Reefs could not read or write, he would
have still he learned.
Speaker 3: Different Indian languages, but still didn't learn to read or write.
Speaker 1: Fuck that dude, who cares at this point? Yeah, at
this point he's got he's gotten this far. Uh.
Speaker 2: He would have somebody read him the warrants, and he
would memorize the contents in which the warrant had on it.
When asked to produce the warrant, he never failed to
pick the correct one, so he at least memorized which
was which.
Speaker 1: Okay, wow, feels like reading would have been easier at
that probably yeah, yeah, yeah, just memorized the alphabet dude.
Speaker 2: On one occasion, Reeves pursued two outlaws in the Red
River Valley near the Texas border. He and the other
men set up camp about twenty eight miles from where
the outlaws were believed to be hiding at their mother's home.
After studying the terrain and devising a plan, Reeves disguised
himself as a drifter and arrived at the house wearing
worn shoes, dirty clothing, carrying a cane, and had a
little floppy hat on top.
Speaker 3: A bit of an actor himself, Yeah.
Speaker 2: He told the woman who answered the door that his
feet were aching after being pursued by a posse who
had put three bollet holes in his hat. After asking
for a bite to eat, she invited him in, and
while he was eating, she began to tell him of
her two outlaw sons, suggesting that the three of them
joined forces with a hobo. Well, he's not a hobo,
but he's, like, you know, an outlaw of sorts.
Speaker 1: He had a cane. He's an old rickety hopo. As
far as she knows, like he's just like, oh, my
feet I could barely walk. She's like, you look good enough.
You should join my outlaw sons the criminals. You could
be the getaway driver or the fall guy, you know
at that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The three came inside and she introduced her sons to Reeves.
After discussing their crime to Trio, greed that joining.
Speaker 1: Would be a good idea.
Speaker 2: Now they bunk her down in the same room. Reeves
observed the pair as they fell asleep, and as they
snored deeply handcuffed the two without waking them up. When
early morning approached, he kicked the boys awake and marched
them out the door. For the first three miles, their
mother followed, cursing Reeves out the entire time.
Speaker 3: I'm certain, I'm certain there was a certain word she
was using in that process.
Speaker 1: One imagines it was used liberally. Yeah, in that three
mile walk.
Speaker 3: I mean you can be a single mom from Minnesota
and use it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is that legit? Like that lady's just making money,
just printing money saying that. Ah, she got like a
big go fundme.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't believe any of these gofundings anymore. They wash
him money. What's happening?
Speaker 1: Wait, that would be a great way to wash money,
like you just gotta go viral.
Speaker 3: Well, I saw a great meme about that. I don't know.
I think I sent it to you guys, but.
Speaker 1: You sent to me. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the uh uh me and my black friend.
It's got the scene from Scarface where they're countingrinting money. Yeah,
and the two drug lords are talking to me and
my black friend after I call him the N word
and he records me call him the word.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't know about that. I just sums off.
Speaker 1: No, she just seems like a piece of white trash.
But I don't know how gonna.
Speaker 3: Get that money, and she is gonna blow through that.
She's not investing that money.
Speaker 1: First off, I don't think she realizes the taxes that
are about to hit her. That's basically likes to prison.
Speaker 3: Yeah, plus Minnesota, which is one of the highest stay
income taxes in the country. Oh is it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's sixty percent of that money's gone already. And
if she doesn't know how to yeah, she again, that's
not going into a four oh one k or a
Twitter and social media are just kind of stoking the
race war flames. She's by the land rover tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it is crazy though the rest of the
country doesn't. There's a certain population on Twitter that they
they live on Twitter so much, they really think the
rest of the world thinks like them as and is
concerned about the same things they are.
Speaker 4: Their brain is broken, yes, yeah, their brain is broken
by that specific percentage of the population.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Most people just don't give a shit, you know,
Like it's like, okay apathy. Yeah, well yeah, I'm sure
most people they hear about their like, okay, sounds like
an asshole, But I gotta I got things I gotta
worry about.
Speaker 1: I don't care. I don't care if like, yeah, what
a bitch, I guess you should have done that. I
don't care. It's all rage bait. Yeah, really, I don't
care about that though. I don't care that she got
a bunch of money, Like, I don't what do you
mean me angry?
Speaker 2: But right, if you just get swooped up in the
rage bait, it's gonna consume you.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: That's why I feel bad when I see like people
who that's their full time job. I'm just like, you're
not happy. No, you're not a happy person. There's no
fucking way.
Speaker 2: So he march thees two twenty eight miles to camp,
where his wagon was waiting. The outlaws were delivered to
the authorities within days, and Bass collected a five thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: Reward, which that is good.
Speaker 1: Don't oh he was he was banking. He was cash
and chicks.
Speaker 2: One of the high points of Ree's career was apprehending
the notorious outlaw Bob Dojer. Dojer eluded Reeves for several months
until the lawman tracked him down in the Cherokee Nation.
After refusing the surrender, Reeves killed Doser in a gunfight
on December twentieth, eighteen seventy eight.
Speaker 3: Were the natives around there willing to cooperate with law
enforcement or would they hide these guys out or depends?
Speaker 2: Probably Reeves had a connections though, like he had established this.
Speaker 3: For I mean, if you can speak to another person's language,
you get instant street right off the bat.
Speaker 1: Also my guess too, is that like, okay, those guys
were hiding out in Indian lands or whatever, which are
kind of probably sparse, right, like they're just the Indians
are also living there and they're doing their thing whatever,
and like, yeah, they might not want like the white
like law enforcement river come in. But like it's an
easy pitch from even Bass reason or anyone else. Like, look, dude, like,
do you want this psycho like living in your area
in the cave? Like you what he's not. He's a criminal,
but he's not gonna do criminal things to you. Yeah,
the people no one cares about, Like you want us
to get this guy off your fucking land. Yeah, it
seems like a good pitch.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Another bit of a speed bump came eighteen eighty seven
when Reeves was charged with murder in one of his cooks.
Reeves claimed that he shot the man by mistake after
cleaning his gun.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Guy, well you know what, Yeah, you're right. And people
who are the most experienced farms people on Earth. Man,
it it can happen even with the most experienced people
with firearms.
Speaker 2: It's a great reason to have Jack on the show
because you were shot.
Speaker 3: I was shot by an inexperienced person with firearms.
Speaker 1: See that's what I was gonna go to. But I
was gonna go the other way and be like, see
that's bullshit. I don't know anyone who's been shot while
cleaning a gun.
Speaker 3: Oh man. Yeah, three tours and no purple.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna find a purple heart at a
thrist store and give it to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'll be our goal. Yeah, I found some fatigues
I was about to buy. I'm still valor.
Speaker 1: Should we go to an army surplus until we find
a purple heart? Oh?
Speaker 3: They sell them there, for sure.
Speaker 1: We can get one on eBay, certainly. Yeah, they still allegen.
Speaker 3: Yeah they're not expensive.
Speaker 1: Is this true? Actually that because I've heard this story
before that they haven't made them since forty five.
Speaker 3: That is what I've heard as well, that the anticipated
casualties for the invasion of Japan were so high that
from Korea, Vietnam, all the shit in the eighties, the
twenty years of global war and terror, we were still
using purple hearts that were made from World War Two.
Speaker 1: By the way, all of the casualties from all of
those wars, wounded and dead, is less than what we
anticipated the casualty count being for Japan. Yeah, like it is.
I mean global War on Terror for example, obviously like
a tough fucking fight, but I mean how many people
died in Afghanistan and Iraq Americans like five thousands.
Speaker 3: The KA to wounded in action ratio is very unique
in American history because medical technology has gotten so well
that there were a shitload of wounded, but they were
surviving wounds that would have killed them forty fifty years ago.
So the KIA, yes, considering how long the war was,
is considerably low. But if you were operating off the
same technology as in let's say Vietnam, there would have
been three four times ka.
Speaker 1: The same technol in Ukraine right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know what their combat life saving procedures are,
but I can't imagine it's up to par with Americas.
Speaker 1: Both countries have lost six figs in deaths, which is insane.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Madison plays a huge role in that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now do you believe that he was cleaning his gun
and accidentally misfired killing this guy, this cook when they
had got into a previous altercation.
Speaker 1: Oh so it wasn't their first the first whoopsie daisy
with each other.
Speaker 2: And it was like right before this.
Speaker 3: I mean, well, he has been known to beat his
slave masters before.
Speaker 1: So no loyalty. Well here us out here.
Speaker 2: So Reeves allegedly got into an argument with the cook
in confront of the cook after the cook killed a puppy.
Pissed me off too, that Reeves had started to grow
an attachment to.
Speaker 1: He killed the puppy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that cook needed a for food. Everyone's let's let's
all be clear. Everyone's on Bass Reeves side at this point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's one of my I haven't watched this.
Speaker 3: From Did they pick him up in San Francisco from
one of those boats coming in by the chance former
rail road worker bid a chance?
Speaker 1: No race mentioned. I mean, the amount of this is
another thing about the past that I love, so I
always talking about this show on the show all the
time about how human life was like worthless in the past.
You know what I mean, as evidenced by the fact,
like I said earlier, we were just hanging horse thieves
without a trial, hanging them. Yeah, a horse thief. Imagine
if today someone caught you stealing a fucking Kia and
they were like, well and just fucking yankee down from
a low a low beam a in a sheriff's office, like,
no trial, nothing, it's death penalty.
Speaker 2: But what people less cars get stolen?
Speaker 1: I didn't, maybe a lot of horses got stolen. But
the other thing about that is like if you think
humans didn't give a fuck about humans, then just imagine
everything below a human like people were like assholes to animals,
to dogs in particular.
Speaker 3: I just actually wrote an episode on the two dogs
that were tried and hung during the Salem witch trials,
and cats went on trial too, all got acquitted.
Speaker 1: They're sneaky like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know cats, they would the dog. A
dog is a type of animal that would be okay
with a public defender, or cats would be like, I
need to invest in a good lawyer. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: There was a guy in like the thirteen hundreds that
claimed to be the true King of England and they
eventually hung him, but he blamed his cat and.
Speaker 1: They also hung the cat. Yeah, I forget it was
like John Dritis or something. An episode. He was switched
at birth thing right allegedly Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, lopped
off his ear, which I kind of buy.
Speaker 2: We did on Patreon, so check that out. It was
a while ago, but pictureon dot com saw software history.
So is tried before Judge Isaac Parker's boy. The United
States attorney W. H. H. Clayton also a friend represented him,
and in the end Reeves was acquitted. It's good too,
the judge.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's like the John Gottie of the wild West.
Speaker 1: So he's I liked, what's even the defense there? So
you were in the kitchen with this man.
Speaker 2: No, they're out literally on the frontier. Oh okay, okay,
this was them like next to their wagon.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay, I'm imagining like back at the sheriffs.
Now we're talking out in the wild wide Okay. Then, yeah,
that's totally plausible.
Speaker 2: Misfired is gun. They got into an argument, could have
been about the dog.
Speaker 1: And also there's a little bit of controversy like if
that was even true, like maybe it was Reeves that
was anti dog and the cook was trying to save
the dog.
Speaker 2: So there's a little bit of a this is just
a better story for me. Yeah, I want this to
be clean for Reeves.
Speaker 1: I don't even care. I'm painting a better picture. Whatever
he did enough good.
Speaker 2: I don't want Reeves to be the anti dog guy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I Also there's also kind of rumors that he just
didn't care for the food the cook was making.
Speaker 1: I hope that's what it was like, truly.
Speaker 3: So yeah, law enforcement back then was definitely operated in
the gray area as far as their moral compass.
Speaker 1: You have to and at this point, he's indispensable, right,
Like if you if like you're a he's like a
detective who's caught twenty serial killers. Wait till you hear
his numbers. Oh I'm sure.
Speaker 3: And the thing is, it's not even like, oh, he's
out there getting the bad guys. Like he's a money
maker for these motherfuckers. Yeah, he's he's a breadwinner.
Speaker 2: Every head he brings in is straight cash home. In
eighteen eighty nine, after Reeves was assigned to Paris, Texas,
he went after Tom Story's gang of horse thieves. He
waited along the route that the gang was known to
have and used in surprise Tom's Story with an arrest warrant.
The outlaw panic and drew his gun, but Reeves drew
faster and shot him dead. The rest of the gang disbanded,
and we're never heard from again. In his three decades
of law enforcement, bass is credited for nearly three thousand arrest.
Speaker 3: God damn, but he was getting them in bulk.
Speaker 2: Seventeen seventeen fifteen.
Speaker 3: Because well, you know, it's like Will Chamberlain sex numbers.
It's like, well, yeah, he was doing ten a night
at some time, so yeah, yeah, it makes sense that
he'd achieve the numbers he did.
Speaker 1: He only killed between fourteen to twenty oh in the
line of duty, not including the cook. Yeah yeah, yeah,
not including that's.
Speaker 3: Just extra crecy the possible murder that he did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so a lot of these outlaws just knew his reputation.
Speaker 1: We're like, I'm not fucking with this dude. Dude's a
quick draw. He will kill me.
Speaker 2: I'd rather take my chances with the hangman.
Speaker 3: It does show that he probably had a tremendous amount
of restraint. If that was the only amount of kills
that he was involved, he's one of.
Speaker 2: The higher kill counts too for a deputy. Yeah, yeah,
pretty high. Twenty twenty is pretty high.
Speaker 3: What are the marshals? Man? That was such a and uh,
that was such an important mission in their history, right
with no shortage of work to do, And now just like, oh,
this guy escape county jail. Just go tracking. He's probably
at his mom's house.
Speaker 1: It's not a lot.
Speaker 3: It's not as sexy as it used to be.
Speaker 1: Tom Jones.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now, despite putting his kind of body on the line
for all these arrest he was never wounded. Despite having
both his hat and belt shut off on separate occasions.
Speaker 1: Damn, never took a stray, never took one. He's quick.
Speaker 3: Do you do you think mel Brooks loosely based Yes,
the main character from Blazing saddles off of him.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I would say Jengo probably too loosely based on Oh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that would make sense. Well, I mean I
don't know about Brooks, but Tarantino is definitely like well
read into history.
Speaker 1: Yeah, both of them. I mean, maybe it's just a
coincidence because this is like the only famous black US
Marshall in the West.
Speaker 2: Right, A couple others, but yeah, he's the guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are some big black heavyweights, but everybody knows
Jack Johnson. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, because he loved white women.
Speaker 2: Now, he tracked and killed in the Tory's outlaw Jim Webb,
who had murdered over eleven people.
Speaker 3: That's a serial killer, yeah, yep, or spree.
Speaker 1: We did a whole episode on another guy who hard
What on Harden is that? Who was Yeah? Who was
just like I'm a cowboy and it's like, no, you're
a serial killer.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: His name was John Wesley Harden. Yeah, and it was
just it was like he tried to act like relative
of my friend Shay. Yeah, which she gave you the idea,
She gave me the idea.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was a great episode. But it was funny because
he was just like, no, no, no, I'm just doing
wild West stuff. And it's like, no, you're no, you're
a serial killer. Yeah, you're a serial killer who put
on a cowboy hat. Like that's not the same.
Speaker 3: You did not need to order that Chinese migrant. You
didn't need to murder that Chinese migrant worker right there.
He did not do anything to you, No No.
Speaker 2: Reeves also rounded up Wiley Bear along with his gang,
which included John Simmons Sam. Lastly, Reeves was in a
gunfight with Creek Desperado Frank Buck, who he shot and killed.
It's just kind of some exploits of his. He also
had to arrest his son. He had eleven kids. Ultimately,
well one of them broke bad, Dana.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one of.
Speaker 2: Them broke bat and killed his wife.
Speaker 1: Killed his wife like his so he killed his daughter
in law and he had to go had a cuff.
Speaker 3: The crazy thing is like, nowadays there's plenty of there's
you know, depending on the size of the community, there's
other cops to do that. But sounds like he was
the guy in the area and nobody else was gonna
be put on that job.
Speaker 2: So he captures his son Benny, and he serves eleven
years at Fort Leavenworth in Kansas before he was released
and lived the rest of his life as a model citizen.
Speaker 1: Got a sweet deal because again, if he's still in
a horse, see, all he.
Speaker 2: Did was kill his wife.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and then you're.
Speaker 3: Well, they couldn't vote, so are they real?
Speaker 1: Exactly?
Speaker 3: Women couldn't even vote there, that doesn't really make them human.
Speaker 2: Really sounds like he got a benefit of his dad
being Bass Reeves. Yeah, and turning himself in.
Speaker 1: Really, Oh, he turned himself in. Yeah, they kind of
met halfway. He didn't put up a fight.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure he was aware of his dad's reputation too.
Speaker 1: They do tell you that if you're getting arrested for anything,
even semi serious, the more compliant you are, the better
better chances you have of not being completely fucked.
Speaker 2: Reeves's wife also dies at some point, like in the
late nineties and eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 1: She gave him eleven kids. At that point, what's the point.
Speaker 2: He remarries and then young when Oklahoma becomes a state.
In nineteen oh seven, Reeves, then sixty eight, became an
officer of the Muskugee Police Department. He served there for
two Yearsgie, ok oh, okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the when you drive through Oklahoma, the amount of
unpronounceable cities and towns.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we see because it's not it's not some tribe
that's indigenous to Oklahoma. It's twenty tribes that are from
Florida and Georgia that that's not even their native land.
Speaker 2: No, they got driven there.
Speaker 1: It is just every like the exit is which gibberish word? Yeah,
what the fuck?
Speaker 3: Well, it's like I'm from Minnesota and there's a lot
of Ojibwe and Lakota words, but those are the only
two players on the block in that state, right, so
you just get used to pronouncing them. But Oklahoma is
like there's like so many different tribes that were pushed
into that.
Speaker 1: Area of different languages. Yeah yeah, yeah, real quick, before
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Speaker 2: He serves there for two years before it becomes ill
and retires. Ultimately, he dies January twelfth, nineteen ten, at
the age of seventy one.
Speaker 1: Lived a good life.
Speaker 3: For oh for that time, oh my god. Hell yeah,
and considering what he the circumstances he was born into, yeah, slavery.
And he goes from you.
Speaker 1: Know, friendship a piece of property to.
Speaker 2: Uh, one of the most you know, notable names of
the time.
Speaker 1: Easily a top ten wild less figure, I would say,
top one. Mustache.
Speaker 2: Yeah have you seen it?
Speaker 1: Uh yes, I've seen it before.
Speaker 2: I'll just remind you. I mean it's it's I mean,
I always want to.
Speaker 3: Be remember it kind of look like a black g
Gordon Lyddie perfect.
Speaker 1: That's a good, good ass stash. He's a good looking
can I see.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a great looking guy.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, he.
Speaker 1: By the way, looks show that picture again. It looks
a decent amount like Ryan Reeves too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's genetics, man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what was it like his great grand great great
grandfather great?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I think great great.
Speaker 3: Okay, and there's probably still some DNA clinging on at
that level.
Speaker 1: I think it's. Yeah, it clings on longer than you think.
I think if you went back in time one hundred
and fifty years and saw your relatives, you'd be like, whoa.
Speaker 3: I'll shut. My great great grandfather was the mayor of Minneapolis,
so his picture is very well documented. There's a lot
of similarities there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it doesn't. I mean when you have kids,
like I just look at all, especially Rory's my oldest,
so he and for whatever reason, he looks very a
lot like me. And I was look at him sometimes
and be like, I'm just raising myself.
Speaker 3: That's what all parents say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like this is just fucking weird.
Speaker 2: His great great grandson, Willard Reeves Uh plays football in
the CFL Canadian Football League.
Speaker 1: Did he play college in America?
Speaker 3: I'm assuming he's probably American from is he from Oklahoma?
Speaker 2: He probably just wasn't good enough to make the NFL.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of course.
Speaker 2: Ryan Reeves is his great great grandson. Yeah as well.
Speaker 1: Ryan Reeves g still playing, I believe for the Leafs.
I think so. He's still in the playoffs right now.
He's an enforcer, Yes he dude, He's one of the
best hockey fighters I've seen this century. Obviously, the hockey
fighters used to be way better, like Tony Twist, well,
it used to be a lot more of them, right exactly.
But Reeves is one of one of the few left
that is like a legit. He's there to fuck people up,
and he is. He's fun like, He's a fun ass dude.
Speaker 3: The reason why I asked if he was a black
obviously I knew Bass Reeves was black. But the reason
why I asked if he was a black guy or
white guy is you It's we see it numerous times
in American families where Thomas Jefferson, for example, he has
a completely black side wing of his descendants and a
completely These aren't like mixed inter racial looking people. You're
if you're a descendant of Thomas Jefferson, you're either completely
white or completely black.
Speaker 1: Well, actually, the daughter of I think Sally Hemmings that
was his and he completely freed.
Speaker 3: And Sally Hemmings was only half black.
Speaker 1: No, she was a.
Speaker 3: Quarter black quarter Oh wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was so passable that they had no problem
like freeing her and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like she looked white and that's all that mattered, right,
They of course they had that one drop policy, but
if you were passable, you were just good. You're good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And allegedly I think it was his daughter. I
think it was his daughter, maybe was his granddaughter, but
she was like, just look white. So they were like, yeah,
you're probably final for you and go out into the world.
Speaker 3: Don't tell your husband.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I actually did not realize that until we did
an episode on who did we do it on? I
forget what it was, but this having all the heaving
stuff was in there, and I did not realized that
Sally Hemmings was a quadroon as I believe they call it.
Speaker 3: She was more white than black.
Speaker 2: Yes, it was a Picton episode about Thomas Jefferson's brother.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, who was like
kind of a piece of shit. It's like the party, yeah,
TJ had.
Speaker 3: Every president has to have that brother or child that
gets them gives them headaches.
Speaker 1: With the headline, TJ had a sort of like Roger
Clinton Hunter Biden brother essentially.
Speaker 2: And you were trying to blame him for actually what
TJ did.
Speaker 1: Oh there is there is theories or whatever that they
were TJ's brothers kids.
Speaker 3: And not dad was the slaves. They were Hemmings.
Speaker 1: I believe was banged by the Sally Hemmings mom was
banged by Jefferson's dad.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like they Jefferson learned that behavior from his dad.
Oh yeah, I don't know the numbers on that. I
don't Uh, I don't know if all slave owners were
doing that, if that was like a common thing, or
maybe certain states they did it more.
Speaker 1: I think it was pretty common.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's our episode on Bess Reebs though. What'd
you guys learn?
Speaker 3: Uh? The numbers were really surprising to me. I knew
he was a badass, but I only had the cliff notes.
Those numbers are and you know, obviously became a very
wealthy man.
Speaker 2: Three thousand arrest You're getting like a couple of grand.
Speaker 1: Three thousand arrest over how many years? Thirty thirty? Okay, damn,
that's a shit ton. Yeah, like every year that got
that man just made a long story career grind culture. Yeah,
I kind of I'd say I didn't know, the numbers.
Like I kind of thought he was like obviously badass,
but like more so maybe like a wider situation where
he had a couple of like hyper bad ass incidents
that made him bad ass. But no, this guy was jevity, assistent,
grind culture. Yeah, the Emmett Smith of his time, just
stacking numbers. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Is he a you know, kind of manipulator with the
numbers because he was just around for so long.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, the best availability, the best ability
is availability.
Speaker 2: Never got shot. That's crazy that.
Speaker 1: So here's the thing that is where you reconcile. Was
he just a stack compiler with was he skilled? Is
that he never got hit? So you know it was
beyond stat compiling. This was a skilled man. And he's
a big target six to two. Yeah, no, Joe, big
muscular guy that farmed, huge hands. Yeah that's how that's
how he was quick. The fucking hands just handled the
whole fucking gun a little tiny hand boy.
Speaker 3: Just like it's crazy too when you think about too
white people back then probably didn't have well I guess
it was to be depending on the situation, but they
probably didn't have the inherent you know those the fear
of the menacing black man thing that eventually came around,
like they were used to being they were used to
overpowering black people, right, So they didn't have they probably
didn't have a fear of that's just based on his color.
Speaker 1: Psychologically, they would have been more like, uh, I could
take this guy, let's just get racist. Uh. It'd be
more like the way you would view an Asian guy today,
right where you're just like, oh, they're harmless.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which obviously isn't the case all the time. And right,
of course, based off a stereotype, right right, right, right.
Speaker 2: Right, who's today's hitler? Besides Rob for dropping that.
Speaker 1: Right there, Yeah, I'm just comparing. I was waiting to
see racist to say that Asian men are non threatening
because they could be. They know, muatai, an Asian guy
could fuck you up just with a gun. I don't know,
but I'm just saying, like, generally, if you go.
Speaker 3: To the California prisons, there's a lot of Asian dudes
in there, like gang bangers. Yeah stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah say that to the Akuza. I wouldn't because the
Yukuza is the second scariest mafia behind the Russian mafia.
Oh wow, really disrespecting the Italians.
Speaker 3: Eh, Italians had have good historical muscle. I don't think
they're as powerful as they used to be.
Speaker 1: And also I'm most scared of any mafia that could
potentially sell you a nuke, which was a thing in
the nineties.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, with the Russians.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the USSR collapse, there were nukes on the black market. Yeah,
so Russian mafia scariest by far. Who's your hitler?
Speaker 3: That is a question I was dreading, right, Uh, I
guess you know, you know what the institution, the institution
of slavery is My hip.
Speaker 2: Not about answer. His guy was not too bad, you know,
taught him how to shoot his gun.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's different classes of slaves.
Speaker 2: I guess he liked him enough to keep his last name.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it didn't bother. Changing the last name just.
Speaker 1: Common practice at that point. It's like, I get that,
I don't want it too much paperwork.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like when you get divorced. Divorced women they're like,
I'll just keep whatever this asshole gave me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is what it is, like, you really want
to change that many documents, like you have a mortgage
and shit, you're just like, I can't do this fucking
it's too much. This divorce is already terrible enough. I
can't do anything else. But I mean, yeah, if you're
like a valet, like a you know, doing like non
hard labor shit as a slave, like it's it's a
better life than the field. Guys, it's not good. Obviously
you'd rather be free, but you probably that's probably how
he got a sense of style all that stuff, Like
he grew up in a nice house. Yeah, clearly so,
state legislators. Yeah.
Speaker 3: When I think of wealthy Southern slave you know Antebellum era,
you know, slave people owners, I think of like Georgia,
South Carolina, the Carolinas, Virginia. Obviously, when it starts getting
to like Mississippi and Arkansas, yeah, I'm like, were there
any bougie slave owners in those places?
Speaker 2: Is Mississippi and uh Jango.
Speaker 1: Mississis Okay, Mississippi. Alabama had it too. Yeah, but like
if you talk about yeah, like Arkansas, Missouri, Texas.
Speaker 3: West Virginia, yeah, it's like you probably had one slave,
that's all you could afford.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: My h Hitler today is the mother that led a
hobo into their house. Yes, oh yeah, and gave up
their sons.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we know what words she probably used, which
is that's not.
Speaker 1: A bad word.
Speaker 2: Yeah, unless you want to get rich.
Speaker 1: So I'll say it, say it, and then you start.
Speaker 3: Sorry, go ahead, I got I got one thing I
want to ask you, guys.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I don't want to say anymore. Jack ruined it.
Speaker 3: Jack, go ahead, No, you say it.
Speaker 1: I just it's not in me anymore. It was in
me for a second.
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry. Come on, just please, I'll you know,
I'll feel terrible about this if you don't do it.
Speaker 1: Well, you ruined it. I was gonna say it all
right now, I'm not gonna be rich.
Speaker 3: Oh the word? Uh No, I was gonna ask you.
I don't know if you guys have discussed this yet,
because it's pretty relatively fresh news to Catholic boys. What
are you thinking about our new American Poe?
Speaker 1: Let's go love him? Have you seen his uh? He
was caught He was in the in a crowd shot
during the two thousand and fives.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, is a socks fan. We talked about it
on our Patriot Oh you did?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 1: Yeah, socks fan? How do you feel about that? Knowing
he's a fan of one of your big Twins fans.
Speaker 3: Well, they're not a threat even to the Twins this season.
Uh well, I mean I've never really had anything to
do with Catholicism other than just the understanding certain historical
parts of it. But as an American, I'm very proud
of it.
Speaker 1: This is a it's honestly a massive historical event.
Speaker 3: Huge and nobody this wasn't like he was one of
the front runners, right No, nobody saw him coming.
Speaker 1: No, he was just Francis's boy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like he was totally off the radar, like
you could gamble on who was going to be the
next Pope. I don't even think he was on the
first ran.
Speaker 3: Wild card win.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was completely out of left field, a name
I had not heard until he was made pope.
Speaker 3: Which yeah, but he was one of the bigger Catholic
figures in the United States, right.
Speaker 1: No, because he did most of his cardinalship and bishop
in Peru. And then, yeah, he was not just from Chicago.
He's an American and he's not. His parents weren't immigrants.
His dad was a World War Two vet in the
Navy and stuff like that. So that was like a
rumor going around. Initially he was like an immigrant or
something like that, Like, no, he's an American, grew up
a white Sox fan, and like was at was doing
he was he did serve in the United States. Uh,
maybe maybe he did. It was a bishop of the
United remember, but he was a priest in the United
States for a while. Yeah, and then but once he
started climbing the ranks, he was not in America anyway.
Speaker 2: Once Villanova apparently someone's mom.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a real going viral when the pope
announcement was made of this family that was like, oh
my god, it's pop Prevost. Oh my god, my mom's
situationship in college is a pope? My mom hocked up
with the pope.
Speaker 3: Well, i mean, obviously they're expected to say celibate while
they're not. That's what I'm saying, Like people assume these
guys are virgins. I'm like, I'm sure even the modern
popes quite a few of them banged before.
Speaker 1: Francis was a goddamn bounce. Francis I think banged. I
think Francis banged Benedict No JP two. I don't think.
Speaker 2: Benedict's was in Hitler youth. You don't think they're getting freaky.
Speaker 1: I think maybe he got banged. I don't know they
so yeah, technically Pope Benedict might not a better virgin JP.
Speaker 3: I think this is this is like just again as
a non Catholic, and I'm not you know, I'm just not.
This is like when the the American cricket team beat
pack or Indier Pakistan. Yeah, and I never gave a
shit about cricket before, but I had this national pride
in me. That's what's going on right now.
Speaker 2: I always get hyped on anything American. Yeah, especially when
other countries talk shit about us, like I.
Speaker 3: Will we just beat you at your best sport.
Speaker 1: It's I have seen actually a lot of so you know,
the one hundred guys versus gorilla thing that was going viral.
A thing that start going about right after that was
who would win one hundred British guys versus one hundred
Brits versus a hundred Americans? And the only people I
have seen sharing Americans breaking down how Brits would get
roasted by Americans is like my most liberal friends, like
it's always like tiktoks and shit that are like I'm sorry,
Like I'm not trying to be patriotic, but here's why
America would kick the fuck out of British people. And
then they're like and it's like literally all my most
take a hundred dudes that work on an oil rig
and they'll beat the fuck out of anybody that's from England.
Speaker 3: You're dumb ass, now, But what are the rules of
that because Brits can no guns obviously, no fists only. Okay,
it's fair now that what Brits do that we don't
do their head butters. They love head button. Aah.
Speaker 2: We got that in us too.
Speaker 3: I've not seen it here as much as I've seen
it in the UK.
Speaker 2: One of my good friends in college head but a
dude in the nose in a college bar fight roke
it immediately.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's a forehead to the nose. You're out. Yeah,
you're done. But here's the thing. If you miss ahead,
but if you miss ahead, but you're done, wide open.
Yeah you're wide open.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Uh yeah. I think American advantage Americans on that one.
Speaker 2: I think we're bigger, stronger.
Speaker 1: I think actually the UK did pass us in obesity,
like per capita. Yeah, obviously, come on numbers.
Speaker 2: We're also more aggressive. So apparently British chicks are kind
of uh at lost right now with the men in
England because they won't approach the women. That's why they
like American men, because they're more aggressive and we'll actually
come up and have a conversation with a girl at
the bar.
Speaker 3: A lot of that has to do with just our
cultural friendliness.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, which I've heard is because we're a quote
unquote melting pot. Like the reason Americans smile more is
because there was a language barrier that like people couldn't
there was a cultural barrier where you couldn't like a
normal thing an irishmen. It would do like if an
irishman just like oh ye right, and then another Irish
guy might be like back to you, but an Italian
might be like what are you doing? I didn't know
they were just like hello, yeah, hello, the way you
are with a baby, you know what I mean. It's
just like I'm just trying to even think of.
Speaker 2: Like the top UFC fighters that are from England, like
Patty's not really bisbeing this was fine, Like he was
probably one of the bigger underdog stories becoming champions and.
Speaker 3: They're big boxing well you know there was Lenox Lennox Lewis.
He was legit, but like the big one is the
guy that he's He's like, yeah, it's technically British, but
he's a Gypsy. They're operating on a different level.
Speaker 1: They're not even English. Yeah yeah, now we're taking Brits.
No problem, Yes, no fucking problem. Get a couple dudes
from West Virginia, Get a couple from get a couple
to have them do meth. Get a couple uh fucking
townies from Boston who were way too into their Irish
pride fighting Brits. Even.
Speaker 3: Look at our IVY leagues, right, Like the Harvard football
team is like, look at the Spanish American War, right,
Like half the guys in that group, amongst all these
ragtag crazy people were like IVY leaguers who just wanted
to get out and scrap.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, well fucking IVY League football. When Theodore Roosevelt
had to make football safer from all the murders, it
was Ivy leaguers. Yeah, that was Ivy League football.
Speaker 2: We also just have a bigger pot to pull from.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, more genetic diversity.
Speaker 1: Although I will say that doesn't always mean anything otherwise.
China to be doing better in the World Cup that
they can't find fifteen soccer players, it's beyond me.
Speaker 3: It's because we have black guys.
Speaker 1: They did too.
Speaker 2: I actually have British black guys. Is very cool.
Speaker 1: I think our black guys are tougher than British black guys.
I agree.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, even our our Chicago Muslims are tougher than
British black ass Yeah, Mohammed Leon Edwards took the belt
and then he just lost.
Speaker 1: The belt to uh Jack Della.
Speaker 2: But Ausie's will fuck you up.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's the Azzi.
Speaker 1: That's a tough culture fighting Ausies. Although they would have
a smaller group to select from, that would be I
think harder. But Ausies are all basically bane. They were
born in prison, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like, it's who's the toughest match up hunting on a
hunter for America when it comes to a nation Canada.
Canada's got some tough motherfuckers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they all know her throw they're scrappers.
Speaker 1: Did you see the thing that went Varley o day
the golf course fight in Canada? Those are like sixty
year old dudes too. Yeah, Jack, did you see that?
Speaker 2: This was weeks ago.
Speaker 1: Okay, this one guy threw punches and it was very
clear he had been he had fought in hockey many times,
because it was just like these quick close in jabs
to the face. He broke the guy's jaw, but it
was just you could tell he didn't but he got
in a way, he got it in it, he got
in a position that made it look like a hockey fight. Yeah,
and he just fucked the other guy out.
Speaker 3: Also, they're like, even in the war aspect, Canadians are
like the kings of war crimes.
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, Leo major dude, all sorts of Canadians hate
us for that episode.
Speaker 1: We do get a lot of it.
Speaker 2: Why because we said Leo Manager was a war criminal.
Speaker 1: Because he went around waving a white flag and then
shooting Jersey dude, which.
Speaker 3: Literally they have to have more self awareness. They on
the Allied side in both world wars, they did the
most war crimes. Like that's a fact.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. Actually that yes.
Speaker 3: That well, So when you guys did the show on
the irishman that tried running into Canada, eventually the Canadians
stuck up to him and started using kind of non
conventional waves.
Speaker 1: So Irish Civil War veterans tried to invade Canada and
it actually caused they were they were doing some some
work for a little bit there, but it actually caused
Canada to kind of revamp their military into what it
kind of is now today.
Speaker 3: Canadians historically speaking, do some heavy duty war crimes on
the good guy's side.
Speaker 1: Good for them, Good for them. You got to make
a mark somehow. Yeah, so I think they would be
a tough matchup, even though they don't really have any
good UFC fighters or boxers. George Well, I mean GSP
is one of the goats, Yes, but he's got he's
long gone.
Speaker 3: That's one guy, you know, if you're drawn from the
current pool. Well, numbers wise, though, China is gonna be
able to pull some badass people out of even India.
Speaker 1: India would be a tough matchup just because of their numbers.
I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think we still got it.
Speaker 1: I think we think we got it. I think no
one's taking us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not even just straight up handhand combat.
Speaker 3: What about I mean Russians, Russia would be tougher.
Speaker 1: I think Russia will be tougher than.
Speaker 2: That's actually the answer, because they have Augustani's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was gonna say, and this actually relates
to the Augustani thing a little bit. Is like the
one thing you're discounting is like, oh, football, hockey, wrestling,
How many countries is that actually big?
Speaker 2: In?
Speaker 1: Yeah, like wrestling? The two.
Speaker 3: Russia didn't even really start their hockey program till like
post World War two.
Speaker 1: Right, probably not, but they're good at it, but they're
not They're not fighters. Really, it's Canadians. The Europeans are
not fighters. It's the Canadians that are the fighters. And
I guess some Americans like reeves, but like, yeah, the
Russians are all just kind of like pace and passing
and and but it is physical, it's for they are, yeah,
but they are more like a beautiful game than Americans
and Canadians. Jack, thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: What any good people find you and your wonderful history show.
Speaker 3: Well, I you know that's the only place you need
to go. I feel I have a history, uh YouTube,
It's a jacked history j A c k e ed
history on YouTube. I do I what ten about eleven
to fIF awesome? Eleven to eighteen minute episodes.
Speaker 1: You got what like forty episodes already torn, I'm about
to do twenty oh twenty okay, yeah, well I thought
I said thirty eight the other day. And I, by
the way, I do for you what I tell people
to do for us, which is I, of course watch
your show. I like to you to help you as
I leave it on for the dogs, I'm leaving the house.
I'm just like Jack History playlist. You and my mother
both and my enjoy dogs.
Speaker 3: I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: And your kids that are there, and your wife.
Speaker 1: Uh no, my children would be immediately like turn it off.
Please just look, leave it on.
Speaker 3: I'm doing work.
Speaker 1: I'm going to work. You don't appreciate me worker.
Speaker 3: You want these toys. You want these nice fucking toys.
Speaker 1: They're all from gray about Shut the fuck up. She
spoils you. I can cut that pipe off. It tip
my fucking what. So check out Jack History.
Speaker 2: Check out our Patreon pictureon dot COM's last software history.
Two additional episodes every week Wednesday Friday. Get that drop
so much content on that at this point, uh three
years of evergreen content. So plenty of things to help
you avoid work and with your commute.
Speaker 3: That's what happens is I'm all caught up on the
last you know, I'm basically all caught up in the
last year, and so I found myself going back a
couple and I get sad, you know, when Jake's on there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we had a good thing going. Jake abandoned us
for nothing.
Speaker 2: He's not even an oyster.
Speaker 3: Fine, no, what is he doing working at Applebee's.
Speaker 2: He was gonna do ghost tours or something in Saint Augustine.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he might be a ghost tour.
Speaker 3: That's there's some dough there out of magic.
Speaker 2: So we might have to go for spooky if he
gets that job, We're gonna go to Saint Augustine and
do a live show with Jake. Yeah, as he does
a ghost tour.
Speaker 3: And thank you for the Ted Williams Commementer of Play.
Of course, I'm gonna put that up as set deck
for jacked history.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
Speaker 3: Even though people don't like watching sports shows, it.
Speaker 1: Is what it is. He's history.
Speaker 2: He's an American hero.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do something on him being a fighter pilot and
you're good to go. Military.
Speaker 3: I'll be just so tempted to go just to lean
into baseball yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean that's how you kind of really grow the
channel as just military military military.
Speaker 3: I know, I know, but I can't. I'm not gonna
allow myself to be to have that be something that people.
I was surprised I did an episode on like you
guys have on The Three Stooges. It's it's doing pretty well.
Speaker 2: People are interested Three Stooges.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also everyone's at the Three Stages. Anyone our
age grew up watching it. And also the story's fucked up,
so like it's a great combat.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you guys focused on Curly, which I kind
of spread it out throughout their entire career, but like, yeah,
the Curly aspect is so fucking sad. I didn't get
into the weeds like you guys did.
Speaker 1: Curly is the o G Chris Farley. Yeah, And obviously
we're gonna sound like idiots if we talk like in
the weeds military stuff because no other.
Speaker 2: Of us served, so we'll leave that's.
Speaker 3: The picture stuff is big picture stuff.
Speaker 1: Anybody can Yeah, we can't break down you know, combat
tax unit move yeah, yeah, but you want to, we
can talk about Gettysburg, right stuff. How what's his name
without the leg.
Speaker 3: People have entire podcasts on gettys, but that's so media
of a topic, right, yea.
Speaker 2: Again, this is softcore history. We love you guys. I
appreciate you for tuning in for Jack Mandeville, Rob Fox,
I'm damn for Jester, and you just gouts all served