Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen.
Speaker 2: What What's gonna happen?
Speaker 3: Than what?
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Occult Rejects. In this episode, we got
Speaker 2: a returning guest, Absidari and Mott. We had him on
Speaker 2: before and I actually, you know, really enjoyed our talk
Speaker 2: and I had these two gentlemen with me as well,
Speaker 2: and I wanted to get us back together and maybe
Speaker 2: talk about something else. And uh, you know, I figured
Speaker 2: alchemy is always a good topic, especially of us. I know,
Speaker 2: I think all of us are kind of interested in
Speaker 2: that thing, alchemy in itself. And uh yeah, so we
Speaker 2: got Gin the Ninja back with us. Jin what is up?
Speaker 2: Thank you very much and let everybody know what the
Speaker 2: deal is and though who you are, where they can
Speaker 2: find you.
Speaker 4: Sure.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Nick, and thank you Absidarian, Mott
Speaker 1: and Robbie.
Speaker 4: Of course.
Speaker 1: So I'm Jim and Ninja. I have a show called
Speaker 1: Rushold Saints. I'm often with Nick on oo reject It's
Speaker 1: not always, but frequently, and I've been doing a five
Speaker 1: part series on Twitter Spaces called The Aon of the Daughter,
Speaker 1: which is a plus ultra series is what.
Speaker 4: I'm calling it.
Speaker 1: So it's a speculative ontology of the history of magic
Speaker 1: and sort of where we're going into the future. So
Speaker 1: that's sort of what I have been working on lately.
Speaker 1: But I have an episode with KB Goldtooth, who is
Speaker 1: like a personal friend, a journalist, really cool guy, and
Speaker 1: he looks a lot at Laurel Canyon and Bowie and
Speaker 1: sort of the magic behind the lyrics, and so we
Speaker 1: talked a lot about the.
Speaker 4: Magic of the media.
Speaker 1: So that episode will drop either right after this or
Speaker 1: tomorrow and more or it will drop by the time
Speaker 1: this comes out. So thank you guys for having me,
Speaker 1: and yeah, really looking forward to it.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, sir, appreciate you. What was jumping on, Robbie,
Speaker 2: Marx my man. Please let everybody how you doing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me on, Nick, It's good to
Speaker 3: hang out here with everyone. And generally I go by
Speaker 3: our mars. I'm an artist and I do posters for
Speaker 3: bands and miscellaneous festivals and stuff, but in the meantime,
Speaker 3: I research and kind of dig into a lot of
Speaker 3: the esoteric and occult kind of subject I've been doing
Speaker 3: that for a while and as a result of that,
Speaker 3: I've got my own podcast, which is other shows I've
Speaker 3: been on, which is the metamind cast if you want
Speaker 3: to check that out. But you can find all my
Speaker 3: links at our what is it link tree r m
Speaker 3: A r X link tree r marx and that'll pull
Speaker 3: up all my stuff.
Speaker 2: Awesome, Thank you very much, Robbie. And you know, he's
Speaker 2: been a guest on here for a long long time.
Speaker 2: He's done a lot of work on this show, so
Speaker 2: I mean you can even again it's so you know,
Speaker 2: it will be on his podcast, so but you know,
Speaker 2: go check it out over there. He has done a
Speaker 2: ton of work on this show. And this must be
Speaker 2: a break for him actually coming on and jumping on
Speaker 2: with another guest, because normally it's him like reading out
Speaker 2: of his book for two hours.
Speaker 3: It's somewhere and focusing on the art.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true, that's true. That is true. And now
Speaker 2: our guests Absidarian Mott, sir, let everybody know what you
Speaker 2: deal is again please, Well.
Speaker 5: Good night, gentlemen, thanks for having me on again. Well,
Speaker 5: I'm an esoteric researcher, practicing mystic I go pretty deep
Speaker 5: into both the Eastern and Western traditions, going to aerodyite research,
Speaker 5: not that surface level armchair you know, over intellectualizing stuff.
Speaker 5: But I really go into you know, a lot of
Speaker 5: to I focus on the key figures and their teachers,
Speaker 5: and yeah, I really enjoy esoteric research. You can find
Speaker 5: me on link tree that absidarian and my patreon specializes
Speaker 5: in a lot of esoteric research. Monthly, I share a
Speaker 5: lot of esoteric links and PDFs. Some of that stuff
Speaker 5: I can't even share on social media just you know,
Speaker 5: like if you're on Facebook or Instagram, you just can't
Speaker 5: share the links. So there's a lot of occult and
Speaker 5: esoteric deep dives links and PDFs and my on my
Speaker 5: patreon also you can find me across social media and yeah,
Speaker 5: just looking forward to a good show tonight.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, sir. I will include everybody's links
Speaker 2: at the bottom. Yeah, so tonight we're going to talk
Speaker 2: about alchemy. And I was gonna guess kind of like
Speaker 2: maybe go around the room and ask, you know, what
Speaker 2: everybody's idea of alchemy is. For me, I'll start with myself.
Speaker 2: You know, I do wonder if there is like you know,
Speaker 2: possibly something with actually you know, physical metals and manipulating it.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm sure that's you know, possible in some ways,
Speaker 2: but for myself, I do kind of look at it,
Speaker 2: I guess, you know, from the occultist angle. I think
Speaker 2: it's could be so many different things. But I do
Speaker 2: think sometimes at the center of it it is talking
Speaker 2: about possible like spiritual change or even a change within
Speaker 2: somebody's physical body due to magic, you know, having a
Speaker 2: magical experience. But uh, yeah, I mean, I do think
Speaker 2: that there's multiple different layers of what alchemy could really be.
Speaker 2: Is it the spiritual, is it the physical, or is
Speaker 2: it actually changing like you know, you know, metals. I
Speaker 2: do think that sometimes when it is talked about, it
Speaker 2: could be all three of those or maybe just one
Speaker 2: or two of them. That's my opinion of alchemy, and
Speaker 2: it probably really doesn't help, you know, just make some
Speaker 2: more complicated. But that's how I look at it now. Jen,
Speaker 2: If you just wanted to get an idea of, like,
Speaker 2: you know, what do you think about with alchemy and stuff?
Speaker 1: Sure, so, I'm actually really glad that you went ahead
Speaker 1: of me, Nic, because I think that in many ways
Speaker 1: we kind of build off of each other in our ideas.
Speaker 1: So as a tantric Buddhist so as a but so
Speaker 1: as a tonic Buddhist. I agree that there are three
Speaker 1: layers or a tripartite sort of shift in reality, which
Speaker 1: also matches metallurgical alchemy. So I would also say that
Speaker 1: metallurgical alchemy is kind of maybe the base art or
Speaker 1: the base science. And then there's the transmutation of the
Speaker 1: physical body, so that would be like the inner layer.
Speaker 1: And then the secret layer, you could say, is a
Speaker 1: transmutation and consciousness. So I think it's all of those
Speaker 1: three things. And then also with single pointedness, which is
Speaker 1: something that we talk a lot about. Crowley also talk
Speaker 1: to discuss this idea. But it's a Buddhist idea of
Speaker 1: having a consciousness that pierces the three worlds, so your mind, body,
Speaker 1: and speech are all together pointed in sort of the
Speaker 1: great work, I guess you could say.
Speaker 4: So, I think it's that is alchemy rather.
Speaker 6: Than the individual components or the individual mechanisms, is putting
Speaker 6: all of it together and then you know, going to
Speaker 6: another place basically.
Speaker 1: So that's sort of my idea.
Speaker 2: Thank you for that. It's very interesting. It made me
Speaker 2: think about a few things. I appreciate that, uh Miter Marx,
Speaker 2: Robbie Marx.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's interesting in regard to the idea
Speaker 3: of you know, manifesting change as far as you know,
Speaker 3: the the change of the metamorphosis of the self, the
Speaker 3: olchemical rainbow that basically produces those changes. But along with that,
Speaker 3: you know, and gen you were talking about the macro,
Speaker 3: the internal, but then you also have the micro or
Speaker 3: the macro you're talking about the micro, you have the
Speaker 3: macro aspects of all those symbols being interrelated as far
Speaker 3: as even within the heavens and using all those elements
Speaker 3: in coordination with one another to basically reduce down and
Speaker 3: try to bring forth that you know, medicine to heal
Speaker 3: all souls or you know, the philosopher's stone. So it's
Speaker 3: it's kind of a cosmic as well as an inner working,
Speaker 3: you know, environmentally and circumstantially, you know.
Speaker 4: I I totally agree with that, Robbie.
Speaker 2: That was very well side. Thank you so Absintian. I
Speaker 2: know it was I kind of like your idea of
Speaker 2: a topic. Where would you like to start it? Where
Speaker 2: do you think would be important, you know, to start
Speaker 2: off with this topic of alchemy.
Speaker 5: So I was thinking, you know what, the origins I'm
Speaker 5: pretty interested in the origins of the emerald tablet and
Speaker 5: also just curious everyone's feedback on that, because there's you know,
Speaker 5: that's such a big topic and I'm just trying to
Speaker 5: figure out out the origins of that with the Arabic. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and you know, just the original language allegedly wasn't Phoenician.
Speaker 5: I don't know if you guys heard anything about the
Speaker 5: original language of what it was written on. You know,
Speaker 5: you also have the links with Enoch and the Bible
Speaker 5: preserving the knowledge on on two stone tablets, which is
Speaker 5: also linked to freemasonry, you know, the pillars. So just
Speaker 5: I think em Emerald tablet, it's a.
Speaker 3: Great Yeah, the Emerald Tablet. I mean, you get into
Speaker 3: some of the mythology of that and in regard to
Speaker 3: it being a stone that was handed down from the
Speaker 3: heavens with angelic, I've seen angelic language. I've also seen
Speaker 3: adversely that it was part of the crown of Lucifer
Speaker 3: that was not loose and basically but you know, and
Speaker 3: and there's the difference of course between the Emerald Tablet,
Speaker 3: which was translate it was lost and found and then
Speaker 3: translated in a Greek school, and then you end up
Speaker 3: with Isaac Newton with it, you know, basically doing a
Speaker 3: further translation of it versus this modern emerald tablets of
Speaker 3: the Culton Colorado.
Speaker 1: You know, Okay, I guess I'll take it after that,
Speaker 1: Thank you, Robbie. So I tend to be a Central Asianist,
Speaker 1: and that I look at it as I don't really
Speaker 1: to me, it doesn't matter conceptually where it came from.
Speaker 1: I think the ideas, if you can translate them into
Speaker 1: like even a more medieval language, I think that's actually
Speaker 1: more interesting because then you can sort of that's something
Speaker 1: that modern magicians can work with. But obviously I love
Speaker 1: the mythology aspect because that's a lot of what I
Speaker 1: also talk about in we're in complement to Robbie and
Speaker 1: doing his long mythology series. So I feel like I
Speaker 1: look at it in both ways. But I think that
Speaker 1: the tontra was remixed in the you know, eighth till
Speaker 1: twelfth century.
Speaker 4: So this idea of the.
Speaker 1: Emerald, it's very familiar to me in that in Joe Tisha,
Speaker 1: which is tontric astrology or regular astrology Indian astrology, the
Speaker 1: emerald is the stone of bood or mercury, and so
Speaker 1: obviously if you're listening Bood Buddha, there's a you know,
Speaker 1: there's a there's a soundscrat element of commonality, which means
Speaker 1: the speech. So it's like this idea of like putting
Speaker 1: your full will into the world, like very transmuting the
Speaker 1: green into from jade. That's often how it's described in
Speaker 1: contrac tests, like from jade, which is self luminous, so
Speaker 1: light cannot pass through, but emerald light can pass through.
Speaker 1: And so then there's also a relationship between blue and green.
Speaker 1: So then you start to get this like nebulous thing
Speaker 1: where blue green is the color of consciousness. So I
Speaker 1: think that, like with the emerald tablet, you're looking at
Speaker 1: something that's perennial perhaps, but that has been reconstituted over
Speaker 1: several we'll say, oxial shifts in the last two thousand years.
Speaker 4: That's my personal ADEA.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Osyrus was also emerald green. His color was emerald green.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, for me, I'm gonna be totally honest
Speaker 2: with you, really not exactly sure what to think about
Speaker 2: the whole thing with the emerald tablets. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I really don't know if it's like a metaphor for
Speaker 2: something else, you know, or is it actually like you know,
Speaker 2: tangible you know. Uh, I just I've never I'm sure
Speaker 2: it's probably a decent part of the story or the
Speaker 2: symbolism if you're to probably really understand like what the
Speaker 2: Eumberald tablets are, But to me, I just felt like
Speaker 2: that might have been something that I would get lost
Speaker 2: on instead of like what's actually being said on them
Speaker 2: over you know, the other stuff. So I never really
Speaker 2: put too much thought into to that. And again it's
Speaker 2: because like I'm not exactly sure. Again, I don't know
Speaker 2: if I can buy it as a literal, you know,
Speaker 2: actual tablet or is it something else. But that's my
Speaker 2: take on it.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, too, there was some mythology about it being from
Speaker 3: an early Persian writing, but then I've also seen that
Speaker 3: it was the a letter from Mark Anthony to his
Speaker 3: mentor Aristotle. I think it was Mark Anthony or maybe
Speaker 3: it was the Great there. But yeah, it is interesting
Speaker 3: just in regard to what it is and what it's
Speaker 3: meant to be in regard to the ideas of alchemy.
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting if you think about it conceptually
Speaker 1: like Nick does, and then more materially like Robbie describes,
Speaker 1: because in I think in the between those two things,
Speaker 1: that that secret third thing That's that's what proble.
Speaker 4: It is exactly either or but it's sort of both.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's why I was saying, I'm sure, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, actually even knowing what it really is, you know,
Speaker 2: this is something to figure out and understand. I just
Speaker 2: haven't spent time on it all right, So, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: I wanted to kind of ask you, actually, Matt. Maybe
Speaker 2: I don't know if I asked you in the last one.
Speaker 2: I know for me, and I don't know if that's
Speaker 2: how it happened for you. I think alchemy kind of
Speaker 2: came up along the lines of me looking into other
Speaker 2: other stuff, but like you know, and then that interested
Speaker 2: me in alchemy. I didn't technically go like, oh, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna look into alchemy today. How did that happen for
Speaker 2: you to get like into this stuff? Was it just
Speaker 2: like researching certain things brought you to this and you're
Speaker 2: really interested in it, or did you like go searching
Speaker 2: into like this type of stuff right a way when
Speaker 2: once you heard about it?
Speaker 5: So I came upon alchemy with my mystic background and
Speaker 5: research and also practice in the Eastern Path with you know,
Speaker 5: yoga and learning about tantra and having a guru and
Speaker 5: uh so, yeah, I learned, you know, there were some
Speaker 5: similarities between the Eastern Way and the and the Western Way.
Speaker 5: So that's how that started. You know, my my my
Speaker 5: thirst for for understanding and and uh, you know how
Speaker 5: I understood it in the beginning was basically speeding up
Speaker 5: the forces of nature. You know, there's transmutation off your
Speaker 5: your your spiritual self, so it speeds up your progress.
Speaker 5: And uh, you know I got into self development in
Speaker 5: in my twenties with meditation, going to the gym, just
Speaker 5: eating better. So it was just aligned with just just
Speaker 5: my practice and my interest getting into spiritual alchemy. It
Speaker 5: just just made sense to just take take it to
Speaker 5: a deeper level.
Speaker 2: All right. Yeah, Like for me, I think I kind
Speaker 2: of came across alchemy like going into other stuff, and
Speaker 2: I got pretty interested into it once I started looking
Speaker 2: at it differently. Who was like, you know, I know
Speaker 2: you had mentioned earlier too about being able to talk
Speaker 2: about like some of like I guess, the lesser known
Speaker 2: people when it came to alchemy. Did you want to
Speaker 2: talk about maybe them and like why you found them significant?
Speaker 5: Yeah, certainly, so, I mean we talked a little bit
Speaker 5: about Aluise Smilander and his his his background with their
Speaker 5: German restcutions a little bit with Prestol that was his
Speaker 5: his teacher and initiator. But you know, there's so many
Speaker 5: interesting figures out. I don't know if anyone's heard of
Speaker 5: Federick girl Galdi, an Italian alchemist in the sixteen hundreds.
Speaker 5: He declares himself of German origin, but information is not certain.
Speaker 5: You know, showed up in Venice. But who did he
Speaker 5: work with? He worked with Cagliostro to to to come
Speaker 5: up with the Egyptian rights. So there's a lot of
Speaker 5: background and history of you know, teachers of some of
Speaker 5: the movers and shakers of the occult revival during that time,
Speaker 5: with you know, Saint Germain, Cagliostro, the Golden Ros and Cruisers.
Speaker 5: We also have Badder friends Vonn Badder who was he
Speaker 5: was whose teacher was he? He was a student of
Speaker 5: Martinize de Pascuali, you know, the Martinist tradition. And one
Speaker 5: thing I found really interesting was that the Sabbathi z
Speaker 5: and Jacob Frank groups kept coming up, uh throughout my
Speaker 5: my deep research in the alchemy and some of the
Speaker 5: movers and shakers and yeah, they keep coming up with
Speaker 5: links and initiators and just let me see who I
Speaker 5: could talk about. Well, we talked about Moltor last time. JB. Kernin,
Speaker 5: just to recap, was freemason in the seventeen hundreds, and
Speaker 5: he was a German opera singer, so you know, he
Speaker 5: has a background with language and the word. So he
Speaker 5: was into spiritual alchemy. So one of his students was Molotor.
Speaker 5: Molotor is linked with the Asiatic Redan and that group
Speaker 5: is definitely some Sabbathians. So I just found it very interesting.
Speaker 5: I would not expect to find, of all any group
Speaker 5: was that the Sabbathian presence or influence in the alchemy
Speaker 5: of the seventeen hundreds. So I thought that was really interesting.
Speaker 5: Uh oh yeah, Samuel Jacob Falk, I'm sorry, this was
Speaker 5: who initiated uh Cagliostro. Sorry, not GOLDI it was fulk
Speaker 5: Samuel Jacob Falk initiated Cagliostro and they developed the Egyptian
Speaker 5: right UH Cabalis. Is definitely a lot of interrelation between
Speaker 5: the Kabbala and UH practicing alchemists of that time, which
Speaker 5: I found was very interesting as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I as well found a lot of connection between
Speaker 3: the early ecstatic Cabalis and the alchemists.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's an interesting subject right there.
Speaker 1: Well, it makes a lot of sense, right, Like if
Speaker 1: you're working the sufferer, there's planetary metals, gemstones. Right, It's
Speaker 1: a map, It's just just it's a It's an oncological
Speaker 1: map for your experiences. So if someone, if you hear
Speaker 1: another magician described in experience, you can in your mind
Speaker 1: you can sort of see it move through the paths
Speaker 1: into the spheres and then see how far up or
Speaker 1: where they went with their experience. That's why I think
Speaker 1: why people are so drawn to it. And plus it
Speaker 1: does seem like the tree is in a lot of things,
Speaker 1: like more than obviously it's in my opinion, I think
Speaker 1: it's in Catholicism. I think it's in Greek Orthodoxy. I
Speaker 1: think it's so inherent to so many things. And then
Speaker 1: when once you recognize those things, you then can realize, oh,
Speaker 1: I can use it. Even though we may not even
Speaker 1: speak the same language, we can still relate through the
Speaker 1: tree these ideas.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: Certainly, it's definitely a universal system.
Speaker 2: One thing I did, what kind of want to ask
Speaker 2: these alchemists that you're you know, also talking about was
Speaker 2: there anything that like specifically that they might have like
Speaker 2: kind of we're known, like maybe an opinion or a
Speaker 2: theory or something that that left like an impact among
Speaker 2: like the alchemy community.
Speaker 5: Yes, certainly. One second. Let me just well, I guess
Speaker 5: I could talk more about Jacob Bame. Jacob Bam, you know,
Speaker 5: he was German mystic sixteen hundreds late, you know, late
Speaker 5: fifteen hundreds into sixteen hundreds, so he had a big
Speaker 5: influence with spiritual alchemy with some forerunners of his was
Speaker 5: like Jane Lead, the Christian mystic in England, and Jacob
Speaker 5: Bame is some of his illustrations that were taken upon
Speaker 5: by the publisher Frankenburg, Abraham Frankenburg. He was a close associate.
Speaker 5: A lot of his illustrations formed a lot of the
Speaker 5: teachings of later spiritual groups like the Golden Dawn, of
Speaker 5: all all groups that I wouldn't have expected my research,
Speaker 5: I was like, wow, there's some some links into Jacob
Speaker 5: Bame influencing the early teachings and writings of the Golden Dawn.
Speaker 5: I'm a lot of Roa secrution groups, so a lot
Speaker 5: of his work, you know, shows up in places you
Speaker 5: wouldn't even think to see it. So Jacob Bame, I
Speaker 5: think is one of the m vps if you were
Speaker 5: looking at the history.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually don't know too much about that, that
Speaker 2: man at all. So did you know anything about it?
Speaker 3: No, I maybe crossed the name, but I'm unawares.
Speaker 5: So yeah, So just real quick with the Emilt Tallett
Speaker 5: I just shared on the private chap. Yeah, tell you guys,
Speaker 5: that's basically a translation one of the translations from the
Speaker 5: sixteenth hundreds. Why, I think it's important because you know,
Speaker 5: things get lost with the telephone game. So I thought
Speaker 5: it was important to source the original or close to
Speaker 5: the original writings or translations to get the essence of
Speaker 5: the message. And you could see it in that in
Speaker 5: that early translation. This was he tried to translate it
Speaker 5: from the Phoenician, you know, so that and that his theory.
Speaker 5: This was Wilhelm Christoph Kriegsman sixteen thirty three to sixteen
Speaker 5: seventy nine. I believe that the original Emerald tablet was
Speaker 5: written in Phoenician. So he did an amazing translation and
Speaker 5: you'll see, you'll see the essence from that. But so
Speaker 5: Jacob Bame, Yeah, so Jacob Bam. He was a really
Speaker 5: big Christian mystic and the philosopher's stone to him was
Speaker 5: finding Christ in the center, this center if you're being.
Speaker 5: And this shows up with the letter mysticism of like JB.
Speaker 5: Kernin I leuis mylander. It's the letter mysticism, which is
Speaker 5: which is a big top topic in it in itself,
Speaker 5: but it's related to the Hermetic tradition, you know, Hermes,
Speaker 5: you know, with with letters and language and the word
Speaker 5: so that so you know, that's that's a big link
Speaker 5: to the spiritual alchemy, is the letter mysticism. And speaking
Speaker 5: of you know, the letter mysticism, hermeis if you take
Speaker 5: if you look at Hermes for example, Hermes, you know,
Speaker 5: and then you look at the hiram of of you know,
Speaker 5: the Freemo Masonic tradition. If you take away the vowels,
Speaker 5: you get the root h r M Herms. You know that,
Speaker 5: you know when you take out the vowels. So that's
Speaker 5: like that's some some information there. So I saw some
Speaker 5: insights with the letter mysticism, is what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 5: I would I would find some key insights into the
Speaker 5: spiritual alchemy by study mean, you know, names and and
Speaker 5: and the letters and the relationship between the vowels and
Speaker 5: the consonants. So Jacob Bain was into that, and you
Speaker 5: know it continued with JB. Kernan who taught alphabet mysticism.
Speaker 5: You know, the power of you know, intne in vowels
Speaker 5: or consonants and different parts of your body until you
Speaker 5: get like a Q, you know, a spiritual Q. It's
Speaker 5: like you know, theorgy. You know, it's just communion with
Speaker 5: the divine until you get a signed to the next
Speaker 5: step and then you keep you know, you keep keep
Speaker 5: going with spiritual progress like that. So that's what they
Speaker 5: taught basically. That's how it's It's linked to the letter
Speaker 5: mysticism and a really cool aspect of spiritual alchemy. If
Speaker 5: if you ask me.
Speaker 3: Now, when you take the intonation of the vowels, they
Speaker 3: were generally looked at as they could him. And if
Speaker 3: you go back to Egypt, it was actually the hymn
Speaker 3: of Osiris, which later you know, influenced the singing spheres
Speaker 3: of Pythagoras.
Speaker 5: Very cool.
Speaker 1: M Well, I'll just offer this quickly, is that in
Speaker 1: in countrac Buddhism we well also this is also true
Speaker 1: for Shruvig, So I'll say that, but.
Speaker 4: We have the spheres are inside of us.
Speaker 1: I know this is also a cabalistic idea, especially later Kabala,
Speaker 1: but the octivation of the three primary spheres, so what
Speaker 1: would be the crown, the throat, and the heart center,
Speaker 1: which is kind of an inverted sphere in our in
Speaker 1: our consumption anyway, So to activate those red, white, and
Speaker 1: blue or white excuse me, white, red, and blue in
Speaker 1: that order, that would be you say the bija. But
Speaker 1: then there's also a visualization of the bija, which is
Speaker 1: the syllable that goes along with the recitation. So I
Speaker 1: think that's really interesting and one of the the whole
Speaker 1: one of the reasons why they sort of created contract
Speaker 1: Buddhism was to purify the sandscript from the original data.
Speaker 1: Is like it's to purify it into a new ritual language.
Speaker 1: So one of the reasons why I think it's it
Speaker 1: starts to differ is this idea that you talk about
Speaker 1: Robbie with Nimrod and like how the languages sort of
Speaker 1: shifted and they kind of moved away from each other.
Speaker 1: But then there's these other traditions that are like, let's
Speaker 1: see what we can do, let's play with the language
Speaker 1: and then like remake it into our own liturgical things.
Speaker 1: So that's sort of what I was reminded of when
Speaker 1: you were speaking well.
Speaker 3: And also within ritual magic, you have words that go
Speaker 3: back to these original deities. And at one point even
Speaker 3: they went to the Sibling Prophecy prophet tests and asked
Speaker 3: if they should re paying those names or if they
Speaker 3: should change them, and she said to keep the ancient
Speaker 3: names because the intonation of those names are what basically
Speaker 3: inflected and brought forth, you know, the power and and
Speaker 3: those like you were saying jen as far as those
Speaker 3: internal spheres being within you, yeah, you're definitely activating different
Speaker 3: points within your body through these different letters. And then
Speaker 3: the underground city that they found there over in Phoenicia
Speaker 3: that goes you know, the multiple levels underground, like you know,
Speaker 3: twenty thirty levels underground. There's one specific room in that
Speaker 3: city that has a chamber that you can put your
Speaker 3: head in and it's made just at that right height
Speaker 3: and you base it with the humming of the e vow.
Speaker 3: You can activate a spiritual experience in that chamber just
Speaker 3: by sticking your head. It's like a is in a chamber,
Speaker 3: you know. So it's interesting how through time, you know,
Speaker 3: we've always sought out these ways to elevate the consciousness
Speaker 3: through you know, the machine that is the body.
Speaker 4: Well one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: And it's so interesting too because in one of our
Speaker 1: one of the so after you sort of practice Buddhism
Speaker 1: contract prism for a while, you then may get a
Speaker 1: practice where you have to hold what is called a
Speaker 1: ganta or a bell and so but this is a
Speaker 1: little more advanced. But I mean that it's interesting to
Speaker 1: think about that. The bell is also a euphemism for
Speaker 1: the female consort, but it's it's not about sex, like
Speaker 1: Nick always says this. It's like just because a magician
Speaker 1: talks about sex, doesn't mean that's what it's about, right,
Speaker 1: It's just a metaphor. So that's what that's what the
Speaker 1: bell is. It's like it's the consort, but it's also
Speaker 1: the sound. So it's like something else besides yourself, besides
Speaker 1: your own consciousness, pervading outward into the world and also
Speaker 1: coming towards.
Speaker 3: You, like an inter exchange.
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly the dialectrical and or separate hol right.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I definitely think there's something behind with vibrating
Speaker 2: those like even in a lesser ritual of the Pentagram
Speaker 2: and you know, the hexagram and all, you know, all
Speaker 2: those rituals that like the Golden Dorm or the Oto
Speaker 2: will use, they always have you vibrate you know, certain
Speaker 2: god names, and they like, really Strawley really stressed doing that.
Speaker 2: It's almost like exhaustion, you know, So you know, I
Speaker 2: figured there was something behind that with that, I don't know,
Speaker 2: you know. And again, like even even with mantras sometimes
Speaker 2: I know, you know, people the way they do mantras,
Speaker 2: I would be like it's almost like I feel like
Speaker 2: you're just kind of like over and over again, just
Speaker 2: vibrating the same sort of thing throughout your body. I
Speaker 2: would wonder that's got to do something to you, right, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: well that's.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's like your beginner contric practice is like
Speaker 1: the recitation of names. So you do the Nama jappas,
Speaker 1: and then you also do the which are usually one
Speaker 1: hundred and eight in number, which may sound odd to
Speaker 1: the Western magician, but if you think about it, seventy
Speaker 1: two is nine and one oh eight is also nine,
Speaker 1: so there's clearly an inter relationship there, right, And then
Speaker 1: your beads are also one hundred and eight usually most
Speaker 1: of the time, maybe not always. And then then after
Speaker 1: you graduate, you start doing the syllables. So that's exactly
Speaker 1: what Nick said. It's like you're cycling through them and
Speaker 1: you want to do as many rotations on the rosary
Speaker 1: as possible, and sometimes you have to do hundreds of
Speaker 1: thousands of recitations before you can graduate sort of move
Speaker 1: up the ladder or whatever. So yeah, it's like it
Speaker 1: to do it to exhaustion is actually considered to be
Speaker 1: really powerful for your lungs because the metaphor they give
Speaker 1: is the air is like a wind horse. It's like
Speaker 1: a Tibetan wind horse. So it's like a horse that
Speaker 1: flies on the wind. And so when you're doing it properly,
Speaker 1: there's supposed to be like a clicking sound up through
Speaker 1: your lungs, and then it kind of clicks, and that's
Speaker 1: considered to be like the whos of the horse riding
Speaker 1: on the wind, So you're sturgling and channeling it through.
Speaker 5: Yeah, can I just add up about you know, we're
Speaker 5: basically talking about mystical concentration, right, So in the yoga traditions,
Speaker 5: there's three layers of the mystical concentration. Dhurana is concentration
Speaker 5: is if you're able to hold your mind and concentrate
Speaker 5: on a subject for twelve seconds. And then the second
Speaker 5: stage is danana, which means meditation. It equals to twelve
Speaker 5: durana's times twelve seconds, which is one hundred and forty
Speaker 5: four seconds, meaning if be able to concentrate on a
Speaker 5: subject or image or mantra for one hundred and forty
Speaker 5: for one hundred and forty four seconds without in mind wandering,
Speaker 5: that's jana. No, that's meditation. And then the third stage
Speaker 5: it's called samadi, which is twelve djananas times one hundred
Speaker 5: and forty four seconds, which equals twenty eight minutes and
Speaker 5: forty eight seconds. That means you attain somebodi. If you're
Speaker 5: able to concentrate on something for twenty eight minutes, that's
Speaker 5: that's an initiate. That's an adept right, that's not a
Speaker 5: neo fighter or a low level someone just starting off
Speaker 5: with the wandering mind, the monkey mind. So I thought
Speaker 5: that was an interesting key insight there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And in Samadi states are quite interesting.
Speaker 5: In regard to.
Speaker 3: The amount of information that the body is able to
Speaker 3: intake and the equitable flow between both sides and entering
Speaker 3: into a state of of you know, seeing the whole
Speaker 3: negative and positive as both positive and negative.
Speaker 7: It's uh yeah, well it's interesting or abi that you
Speaker 7: say that, because Samadi fire is in tantra, this is
Speaker 7: specifically a contric thing.
Speaker 1: But Samadi fire is heatless, right, It's a pristine wisdom fire.
Speaker 1: So it's a heatless fire, very alchemical, but it also
Speaker 1: has that quality of heat like tumo, like building your
Speaker 1: body respiration and you're breathing, so you're breathing goes up
Speaker 1: and it's however, many counts. I mean, I'm not as
Speaker 1: Ouggen practitioner, but yeah, they do this and they will.
Speaker 1: And so I think even the idea of firewalking, like
Speaker 1: when you see like Taipusam or one of the festivals
Speaker 1: devoted to Shiva or one of his sons, you will
Speaker 1: see a lot of the coal walking and firewalking. And
Speaker 1: Kashiva has a nature of agony, that nature of fire
Speaker 1: from one of his faces. So I think that that
Speaker 1: is is a lot. It's like can you overcome You
Speaker 1: have to overcome an element of yourself. So there's like
Speaker 1: three layers of somebodi as well. So I think that's
Speaker 1: also relational to like how the three worlds or the
Speaker 1: three properties of matter, the three you know, like ice, water,
Speaker 1: and vapor. Like, I think it's all it's that's very
Speaker 1: interrelated to like what somebody is and why it's so
Speaker 1: hard to sort of describe it across traditions because I
Speaker 1: think it's so complicated and there's different stages of it.
Speaker 1: So what it appears from the outside observer is not
Speaker 1: exactly maybe pure somebody, but there's like a you know,
Speaker 1: a partiality or something, but the other person doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: understand that there's multiple components.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jim, any uh anything anybody wanted to talk
Speaker 2: about and bring up specifically? Anything else? What else did you?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 2: Absiderian?
Speaker 5: So yeah, the stages of alchemy with with the colors.
Speaker 5: I thought that was interesting. The colors albedo, which is white,
Speaker 5: rubetto red and then I'm sorry, it starts with negretto, black,
Speaker 5: Alberto white, then rubetto red. So you got black, white,
Speaker 5: and red, you know, like black Saturn, the dark knighted soul,
Speaker 5: the lead white you know, purification related to the moon,
Speaker 5: and then red. You know, what has to do with
Speaker 5: the blood, and I thought it was interesting in the
Speaker 5: correlation with Mylanders spiritual alchemy and which was taught throughout
Speaker 5: the tradition, that there was three baptisms. There was the
Speaker 5: baptism of water in the beginning, the beginning of the
Speaker 5: spiritual life, your your entrance into connecting with the astralight
Speaker 5: with water, spiritual dreams, the begining of a new life.
Speaker 5: Then you had the baptism of blood, your transmutation of
Speaker 5: the end of the body from you know, the electromagnetic
Speaker 5: you know currency in your blood. It's really powerful. And
Speaker 5: then lastly baptism by fire, which is one attains the
Speaker 5: word you know, you're so yeah. So those are the
Speaker 5: three baptisms that many mystics allude to in their writings,
Speaker 5: like Jane Jane Lead alludes to it JB. Kernan, But
Speaker 5: Mylander is one of the most popular teachers in modern
Speaker 5: times of of this this aspect of the spiritual alchemy.
Speaker 3: The three baptisms. When you trace that back, you actually
Speaker 3: see that the mystery schools, the Frygian mystery schools, coming
Speaker 3: right all the way up to Mithras or Mythris. Basically,
Speaker 3: those are the three baptisms through the various stages of
Speaker 3: initiation that you you know, proceed through as well.
Speaker 1: I also think it's interesting that some of the alchemists
Speaker 1: like them, especially the medieval, but then the later more
Speaker 1: practical practical we'll call them practical magicians, who were looking
Speaker 1: at the older alchemy, they couldn't decide the order like that.
Speaker 1: They some of them had to slight disagreements in the order.
Speaker 1: And then also some people added the citronaitis or the
Speaker 1: fourth sort of golden thing, and then they couldn't decide
Speaker 1: if that went between black and red or red and black,
Speaker 1: or white and red. And so I think there's something
Speaker 1: really interesting there because in tantra We, the saying is
Speaker 1: is that red always transmutes into gold in terms of iconography,
Speaker 1: in terms of like what I if a deity is
Speaker 1: pictured like that. So I'll give an example like Vadrioghini.
Speaker 1: Sometimes she is understood not necessarily depicted as gold, but
Speaker 1: she is understood as gold even though she's depicted as red.
Speaker 1: So we always like know that it's all is the
Speaker 1: transformation from from right into gold. But it's interesting that
Speaker 1: they couldn't decide and then all the different the idea
Speaker 1: of the different names like Christianity is a more of
Speaker 1: a three name tradition, and then Judaism they say, is
Speaker 1: like the fore name the i Hovah.
Speaker 4: That's so it's like the fore name tradition.
Speaker 1: So everybody kind of has these disagreements theologically of like
Speaker 1: how many stages there are, how many names there are?
Speaker 3: Well, And it's interesting, you know when you read and
Speaker 3: I've read some Asian alchemists in China that you know,
Speaker 3: there's the the metaphysical idea of doing this within yourself
Speaker 3: to turn to fashion your spirit into the idea of
Speaker 3: the pure you know, gold per se. But then you
Speaker 3: know you have the the other aspect where they're physically
Speaker 3: trying to make this medicine to extend their life, to
Speaker 3: cure their ills, to do and you know when when
Speaker 3: you go from the negreto being the black the primum materia,
Speaker 3: and then you burn it off, you purify it, you
Speaker 3: separate out the oils from the salts through the white vase,
Speaker 3: and then you take the oils and that you've that
Speaker 3: you've you know, drawn out of this uh this uh
Speaker 3: negreto through purification, and you take those oils and you
Speaker 3: recrystallize them into you know, the Philosopher's Stone. So you know,
Speaker 3: there's been this idea of it being something to and
Speaker 3: like Cagliostro as far as the mythos of you know,
Speaker 3: this guy walking through Europe, who was it Edward Bulward
Speaker 3: Lytton that that wrote that book about him that you know,
Speaker 3: he's basically popping up hundreds of years, but he you know,
Speaker 3: and he had given somebody a small piece of the
Speaker 3: red Stone, you know that he and refined and you
Speaker 3: just get these stories, you know, and it's the uh,
Speaker 3: the physical material aspects of you know, prolonging the life
Speaker 3: versus the internal work of like the Kristin Rosenkrutz, basically
Speaker 3: working to achieve that purity of the pure Christ within themselves.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, No, I totally agree with you, Robbie.
Speaker 1: I think that the thing is with Chinese alchemy is
Speaker 1: that was in particular. But I think that Daoism is
Speaker 1: sort of an indigenous dharma. That's sort of how I've
Speaker 1: been looking at it. And I think a lot of
Speaker 1: the Tibet writers would are not excusing autist writers. I
Speaker 1: think many of the Chinese writers would agree. Now there
Speaker 1: was there contention, is it the same thing exactly? No,
Speaker 1: But I think that there is enough of a dialogue,
Speaker 1: enough of an understanding that, yeah, Daoism is kind of
Speaker 1: a novel dharma. So I think that there are some
Speaker 1: Daoists who were talking about like the physical alchemical or
Speaker 1: like medicine making stage. Obviously Quicksilver has a lot to
Speaker 1: do with that. Cinemar and like, yeah, yeah, one hundred
Speaker 1: percent of especially for Chinese, which is interesting because Gava
Speaker 1: lead mars like you not lead mars.
Speaker 5: Read.
Speaker 1: It's just there's something very it's cinnebar is so potent
Speaker 1: and toxic.
Speaker 4: But then they're obviously just like fire right, it's like
Speaker 4: very transformative, very transmutational, but just a little bit too
Speaker 4: much heat burns you exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, there's something that is definitely talking about,
Speaker 1: like the three works at the same time, like doing
Speaker 1: what while you're doing the medicine making maybe in your consciousness,
Speaker 1: you're also performing the inner ritual and then in the
Speaker 1: secret third thing, which is that you're doing it both together, right,
Speaker 1: then you're creating whatever, like exactly.
Speaker 2: Exactly, jin something I wanted to ask you, and then
Speaker 2: I was gonna maybe ask Ebsidian and I know that's Robbie,
Speaker 2: but I wanted to ask you specifically because of being
Speaker 2: more you know, I think your Eastern philosophy and stuff,
Speaker 2: can you see I mean for me, and I'm not
Speaker 2: necessarily saying it's the same thing for you, which just
Speaker 2: I know you've been into this stuff for a while.
Speaker 2: For me, uh, I guess from just you know, looking
Speaker 2: at some stuff or different styles and maybe because of
Speaker 2: like again, you know, sometimes I say, I do think
Speaker 2: when you have certain experiences, you can kind of see,
Speaker 2: like see what's being said in different artistic languages in
Speaker 2: a way you can kind of like you have an idea.
Speaker 2: I think, are you able to like see sometimes like
Speaker 2: the same thing maybe being expressed, but just differently due
Speaker 2: to the artistic styles of like how the difference between
Speaker 2: Western and Eastern?
Speaker 1: This is a really great question, And I actually came
Speaker 1: up the other day with Todd and so I think,
Speaker 1: I mean, I can now.
Speaker 4: So I think that when you've had certain.
Speaker 1: Experiences, like obviously not waking experiences, will say, but maybe
Speaker 1: more magical experiences, you you get you have a maybe
Speaker 1: a fundamental grasp of what the contours of those things are.
Speaker 1: So then it becomes much more noticeable in iconography later on.
Speaker 1: But then also you have to remember that when I
Speaker 1: did the original Contra series with you, Nick is that
Speaker 1: one of my reasons was because when you would talk
Speaker 1: about Kabbala in your early Reject episodes, I would understand
Speaker 1: what you were talking about. But in my own conceptualization.
Speaker 2: That's, yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at it.
Speaker 2: I assume just you know, maybe because are the things
Speaker 2: I know you've studied that you're into, that you might
Speaker 2: be able to see that because I will say, like
Speaker 2: if you wanted to go look at certain people's like
Speaker 2: Heinrich Kohnrath or well, Michael Maher didn't make his emblems,
Speaker 2: I forgot the matheas something made him for him. You know,
Speaker 2: stuff that Robert Flood's done, you know, very different style
Speaker 2: of like all chemical imagery than you would see, like,
Speaker 2: you know, somewhere else. But I do think if you
Speaker 2: kind of understand like certain things, you can see the
Speaker 2: same shit being said. I think, like I think with
Speaker 2: like a lot of the art that I think you
Speaker 2: show on Twitter, I think that is like, besides it
Speaker 2: being very detailed and you know, symbolic, you have in
Speaker 2: my opinion, a hell of a lot more colors being used,
Speaker 2: which then I think that starts to play in other
Speaker 2: maybe specific or you know, or just adds to it.
Speaker 2: So like for me, I can kind of almost see
Speaker 2: like this stuff being said. It's just some have different
Speaker 2: ways of being a little bit more specific or just
Speaker 2: different styles, you know. But from looking at both, I
Speaker 2: think I can you know, I can see a lot
Speaker 2: of the same thing.
Speaker 1: There's an idea in contra that if you understand seventy
Speaker 1: percent of the image at least conceptually, like have that
Speaker 1: kind of magic or like we'll say experiential magical experiences
Speaker 1: or knowledge by true knowledge, you have a seventy percent
Speaker 1: understanding of most things. Now what you understand like one
Speaker 1: hundred percent. That's the same way I am with like
Speaker 1: other things, like yeah, I have a degree of understanding,
Speaker 1: but it's it's imperfect.
Speaker 4: But the more I learn, the more I'm like.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, this actually goes quite well together.
Speaker 4: This actually makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: So you sort of have to push the force of
Speaker 1: like your perception along and or of like make sure
Speaker 1: that you're not sticking to the old things, not because
Speaker 1: they're not good necessarily, but you're not applying that other
Speaker 1: way of thinking, the other systemic thinking to the new thing.
Speaker 1: So that is a challenge that I've had sort of
Speaker 1: like being like, okay, well they don't view it exactly
Speaker 1: the same, but that's okay because the meaning is very similar.
Speaker 3: Well, and interestingly, I think that one of the things
Speaker 3: that the resecructions did do, being highly interested in Oriental philosophy,
Speaker 3: was they tried to take all of these philosophies and
Speaker 3: reduce them down into some sort of a single you know,
Speaker 3: like system.
Speaker 2: Sorry, Nick, if you want to go, okay, well, I
Speaker 2: just want to say, yeah, there's definitely that the case, Robbie,
Speaker 2: Like you can see it in Vietnam.
Speaker 1: I think really particularly with the early Jesuits and like
Speaker 1: the sixteen hundreds they were in Vietnam.
Speaker 4: The first ones were French Jesuits.
Speaker 1: They changed the alphabet into the latinized alphabet Freese, and
Speaker 1: obviously then you see these sort of other religions developing
Speaker 1: that are synthetic, meaning not necessarily that they're fake, but
Speaker 1: that they are synthesized. Confucianism, Buddhism, Christianity altogether, like Zaudai
Speaker 1: that's the eye and that's sort of like the eye
Speaker 1: of Jupiter, and it's like the singles is exactly like
Speaker 1: the money I but you know, their religion is very syncretic,
Speaker 1: but it's also very Catholic and then also very Rosicrucian.
Speaker 4: So I think that you definitely have.
Speaker 1: And then the theosophy in India, I mean, that was
Speaker 1: so popular right from the beginning of the very origins
Speaker 1: of theosophy. I think he could even argument that it
Speaker 1: partly developed in India, and then the Indians obviously took
Speaker 1: the ideas and sort of made it their own, like
Speaker 1: with the Kalki Purana, which is discredited sort of Piranha
Speaker 1: that was much later. But I just think, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that there is a quest to find the perennial system.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's fruitful, but you know what,
Speaker 1: do I know it well?
Speaker 3: And it's interesting just how every region would have its
Speaker 3: own universal kind of understanding based on where they were
Speaker 3: and the environment they were in and the things they
Speaker 3: were participating, and that leads to those individuated systems, you know,
Speaker 3: like holistically, you know, and then the conglomerates, as you know,
Speaker 3: populations grew and those conglomerate elements started to come together
Speaker 3: and you see the ideas washing back and forth. You know,
Speaker 3: with the translations of the subtuagent and bringing the Eastern
Speaker 3: text to the West, and it's you know, a very
Speaker 3: fract line kind of you know, manifestation that we kind
Speaker 3: of subside within a very kaleidoscopic you could say, yeah.
Speaker 1: I knew Nick would like that because it's all about
Speaker 1: the eyes, right, yeah. Yeah, But even the you know,
Speaker 1: even Sanskrit has a relationship with Phoenician, and even see
Speaker 1: like the times where they would turn the letter ever
Speaker 1: so slightly and then you look at the Hebrew version
Speaker 1: and then the letter is like turned ever so slightly.
Speaker 1: So either someone's memory was imperfect or there is like
Speaker 1: a cultural shift that is physically manifested in the letter.
Speaker 4: So that's also like something else.
Speaker 1: But I agree with you Robbie, like there seems to
Speaker 1: be a lot more in common between traditions than actually
Speaker 1: people understand there to be. But I think that the
Speaker 1: outer densities, the outer temple level, even the inner temple level,
Speaker 1: I think that screws up people's heads a lot.
Speaker 4: Like they get very dogmatic, very entrenched.
Speaker 1: Maybe I often call it making kleipas or making skandas.
Speaker 1: They're sort of concretizing, cementing what they think of the
Speaker 1: world in these very limited perceptions, right yeah, I think,
Speaker 1: but I think that the in the more consciousness layer,
Speaker 1: that more secret layer, I think that we are kind
Speaker 1: of breaking through like the dogma, and then you're able
Speaker 1: to see. Okay, this is so similar, like even when
Speaker 1: they're talking about the degradation between like black and then
Speaker 1: the reddening process and then the purifying process. Like Buddhist
Speaker 1: color magic. I mean, Buddhist color magic is all about this, right,
Speaker 1: Like it's the blue to the white, to the red,
Speaker 1: to the yellow and to the green, so or different
Speaker 1: mondolas have it in different order, just like the medieval
Speaker 1: alchemists can really.
Speaker 5: Decide on it, right, right, so you have so.
Speaker 1: I think that there is something. It's just like how.
Speaker 4: You agree that or where you want to arrive.
Speaker 1: I think that's the biggest disagreement, Like where you want
Speaker 1: to go with it seems to be like the biggest.
Speaker 2: Well I think like even if maybe it just this
Speaker 2: could even maybe just be from your regular understanding. But
Speaker 2: like sometimes I think if you understand maybe some of
Speaker 2: the secrets behind, like why certain things are used for
Speaker 2: like symbolism or imagery, you start getting ideas why other
Speaker 2: things are being used, you know, like again, like you know,
Speaker 2: different birds will be used just because of maybe different
Speaker 2: you know, what's available or what's around in those people's eyesight,
Speaker 2: or could it be that they actually have something in
Speaker 2: common that is you know, special, a different you know,
Speaker 2: I think even just like understanding, maybe stuff like that
Speaker 2: could even like show you how maybe sometimes art has
Speaker 2: the same message, but it's just using different images to
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 3: Yea, Yeah, within the whole art subject. You know, the colors,
Speaker 3: they have effect on the psyche depending on how you
Speaker 3: use the colors, contrast the colors.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 3: It's something that I actively play with as as an artist,
Speaker 3: you know, And and I am doing a sort of
Speaker 3: storytelling alchemy, you know, through the creation of the piece
Speaker 3: of art and the colors that I use to interplay,
Speaker 3: you know, and even sometimes you know, if I'm hired
Speaker 3: to do like I just hired to do both piece
Speaker 3: and basically I found the coordinating colors of thought and
Speaker 3: basically built the whole piece around, you know, the gray,
Speaker 3: yellow and the purple. So it's you know, these these
Speaker 3: different and you know, I'm doing it more from a
Speaker 3: playful aspect, but you know, it all depends on you
Speaker 3: know how you're going to use it, and and but
Speaker 3: it does affect the psyche, you know for.
Speaker 2: Sure, for sure.
Speaker 5: Absodarian, Yeah, you're definitely chiming.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 5: You're speaking about birds that I wanted to discuss, the
Speaker 5: birds of alchemy, you know, those those are traditionally signed
Speaker 5: sign posts of progress along the way, you know, the
Speaker 5: black crow, you know, earlier stages, the black the white swan.
Speaker 5: I've had experience with that, and so these are some
Speaker 5: some some symbols that are universal. But I do want
Speaker 5: to speak on something you mentioned. If the different systems
Speaker 5: with the Eastern and West are the same, I wouldn't
Speaker 5: say that they're the same. They're similar. There's some similarities,
Speaker 5: but there's there's some stark differences. You know, I've I've
Speaker 5: I've learned. So you know, for example, the in the
Speaker 5: East with Nadan and then the Taoists practice with the microcosmic,
Speaker 5: they're not doing that in the in the Western tradition
Speaker 5: with with spiritual alchemy. You know. So just so there's
Speaker 5: some some subtle differences. There's some similarities on on on
Speaker 5: the practice or the intention of breath, you know, the
Speaker 5: focus on concentration, morality, you know, a lot of things
Speaker 5: that lead up to the great work that you need
Speaker 5: to facilitate the progress. But there are some differences, you know,
Speaker 5: whether in Kundalini yoga using a different channel, a nerve
Speaker 5: channel than in some of the Western traditions, some of
Speaker 5: the mystic work, they're using a different channel than the shushman,
Speaker 5: you know, the middle channel, so you know, there's different
Speaker 5: nerves going up the spine. So there are some subtle
Speaker 5: differences that between the East and the West. You know.
Speaker 5: It's not that it's one's better or you know or not,
Speaker 5: but it's it's it's important to learn and understand that
Speaker 5: you know, these systems of practice will fit the environment
Speaker 5: of where where it was you know, originated from and
Speaker 5: you know, and I think that's important as well.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, I mean there's obvious a lot of
Speaker 2: Ian Stark differences. When I was talking about it before,
Speaker 2: I was really thinking more of like the artistic angle,
Speaker 2: you know, when people like do it like a lot
Speaker 2: of art, like is there an alchemist, you know, use
Speaker 2: a lot of art to try to display stuff. But yeah,
Speaker 2: there's definitely some huge differences between both for sure.
Speaker 5: M H.
Speaker 1: Well, I'll just add that I think I think I
Speaker 1: I understand what Nicks saying because it's it's very like,
Speaker 1: it's very referential to my my specific Twitter and then
Speaker 1: how I sort of look at the the colors and
Speaker 1: through also Cabala, So I'm using both systems at the
Speaker 1: same time. So I think that it's it's interesting because
Speaker 1: I find it to be very similar. I don't think
Speaker 1: that they're the same. Obviously, I preference Vadriana. That's because
Speaker 1: I think that's the best. That's my personal opinion and
Speaker 1: that's also what I practice. So but I also think
Speaker 1: that there's a lot of similarity. I think that the
Speaker 1: similarities are very strong. And I think there is a
Speaker 1: degradation in all systems that has happened. That's very obvious
Speaker 1: also to me. And I just think that we're all
Speaker 1: doing the best we can, putting it back together as
Speaker 1: the best we can, but also following if we choose
Speaker 1: to follow a tradition or not. And so yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it's useful comparative that has sort of comparative and
Speaker 1: but not taking necessarily a skeptical or a pro approach,
Speaker 1: like you're looking at it and oh this actively similar,
Speaker 1: it's actually different. Yeah, that's sort of how I look
Speaker 1: at it.
Speaker 5: Got it. I'd like to just talk about some of
Speaker 5: the similarities. I like to references the universal tools of sulfur,
Speaker 5: mercury and salt. That's a good universal that's found in
Speaker 5: all traditions, right just to dificult. It's it has to
Speaker 5: do my understanding, will, intention, and your vital force. So
Speaker 5: that's direction engine fuel. So sulfur is your will, right,
Speaker 5: your your soul, mercury is your intention, has to do
Speaker 5: with your spirit, and salt is your vitality or your structure,
Speaker 5: has to do with your body. So that's just this
Speaker 5: and that's universal. Right. So you have the salt, mercury, salt, salt,
Speaker 5: sulfur mercury, you have gin ki and shen, you have
Speaker 5: Brahmha Vishnu Shiva, you have Setva Rogers Thomas, you have
Speaker 5: father son, holy spirit. So all these things. To me,
Speaker 5: that's that's the universal forms of alchemy.
Speaker 2: That's to make me think about I think there's stuff
Speaker 2: like that being shown in them. A novel degree in
Speaker 2: the O t O hows to think about that. I
Speaker 2: don't know why. It just made me think about that
Speaker 2: now when you're talking about this stuff.
Speaker 5: So, so is this a good time. We're gonna try
Speaker 5: to produce the Philosopher's Stone at this point. Yeah, so
Speaker 5: who's who's up first?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 5: Oh boy? Do you think that Do.
Speaker 2: You think that's the the Philosopher's Stone or do you
Speaker 2: think that's like are you any of you here into
Speaker 2: twin peaks? I'm probably probably Do you ever think that's? Like?
Speaker 2: What the do you ever think that's what they're talking
Speaker 2: about with that, like the piece of the ring that
Speaker 2: kind of fits the table, Like I've always wondered if
Speaker 2: that was like something like a reference to like this
Speaker 2: the Philosopher's Stone or that tablish because it is like
Speaker 2: I think a green table that it's uh, it fits.
Speaker 2: I can't remember. I've always no, I just always wondered
Speaker 2: about if there was a connection with that. I think.
Speaker 1: So I think even like the Trinity, like well, obviously
Speaker 1: I don't envision the Trinity like sheep I, Brahma Vishnu,
Speaker 1: but you know there is something or maybe a diead
Speaker 1: or even a monad like I. I think that the
Speaker 1: emerald is like how to get there through our own eyes?
Speaker 4: That's what I'll say about that.
Speaker 1: So I think that it is in that sequence, Nick,
Speaker 1: But you know, I think it's very much up to
Speaker 1: our perception, our interpretation of that scene. And I think
Speaker 1: that's what a lot of twin peaks is because a
Speaker 1: lot of people know it's a fault, but people can
Speaker 1: never decide exactly what is it.
Speaker 3: Well, you know the difference between a cult and the religion.
Speaker 3: So basically, if if a cult hangs around for five
Speaker 3: hundred years, they're declared religion, that's true. Yeah, So if.
Speaker 2: It it's just widely accepted, I mean at that point,
Speaker 2: it's really yeah, it's really good. Was there anything else
Speaker 2: Absodarian that you would like to maybe touch on. We've
Speaker 2: got a little bit more time if you want, maybe
Speaker 2: maybe let me see.
Speaker 5: Uh, you know, we we talked about a lot. Uh.
Speaker 5: I think we covered a lot. I mean we don't
Speaker 5: really talk about Paracelsus.
Speaker 3: But I was just gonna say it's important to.
Speaker 5: Talk he is.
Speaker 2: He is, you know, I like talking about.
Speaker 5: Like like one of his quotes is alchemy is the
Speaker 5: gentle accelerator, acceleration of growth through the use of the
Speaker 5: fire of nature. So he's known as a fire philosopher.
Speaker 5: But he was really interesting character. I thought he's worthy
Speaker 5: of discussion or just seeing some more esoteric aspects of
Speaker 5: his uh, you know, his teachings.
Speaker 3: And it's interesting with Paracelsus how he goes through. You know,
Speaker 3: you have the alchemy of the metals, you have the
Speaker 3: alchemy of the planets, you have the alchemy within the self.
Speaker 3: You have basically, you know, I've seen in several places
Speaker 3: there's seven forms of alchemy. Even getting into the early
Speaker 3: talk of Lucifer in you know, the heavens in that
Speaker 3: space of pured you know, refined space with no decay,
Speaker 3: that he was basically doing a cosmic alchemy and basically
Speaker 3: you know, misused it and and that was his fall.
Speaker 3: But but Paracelsus, just in regard to the planetary aspects,
Speaker 3: going back to the Emerald tablet, you know, as far
Speaker 3: as the sun is its father and the moon is
Speaker 3: its mother, and it talks about you know, basically being
Speaker 3: in the belly and just stating and but Paracelsus, you know,
Speaker 3: talking about how all the metals come out of gold
Speaker 3: and how they can all return to gold. It's just
Speaker 3: you know, interesting philosophically.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of Taoist stories Robbie like that. I mean,
Speaker 1: I have I have read Paracelsus, but it's not something
Speaker 1: I'm like talking about or thinking about, but I think
Speaker 1: that in my memory it's all sort of coving bag distilling.
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of Daoist attacks that are very
Speaker 1: similar to this, and even the origin story because I'm
Speaker 1: preparing to do a show with Nick and JJ on
Speaker 1: sort of a Taoist alchemy. And so the Red Emperor,
Speaker 1: So if Paracelsus is a fire philosopher, the Red Emperor
Speaker 1: of Chinese cosmology, he is Shenong. So he's the guy
Speaker 1: who brings like medicine, agriculture and even in fact, the
Speaker 1: first Chinese herbal medicine book is called the Shenong bansaal
Speaker 1: so the it's called Shenong's Herbal So it's like the
Speaker 1: three thousand year old text that it was supposedly given
Speaker 1: to them by this mythical giant oxhorn to emperor who's
Speaker 1: read and sits in the south.
Speaker 2: So, oh, do you want to do you want to
Speaker 2: talk more? Do you want me to just wrap it
Speaker 2: up there? You think, I don't know, how do you?
Speaker 2: I mean, if you want to talk at that guy,
Speaker 2: we could go on for a while too.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I just I just want to touch
Speaker 5: on one one interesting esoteric aspect of Paracelsus UH with
Speaker 5: his alphabet of the Magi. He brought that back with
Speaker 5: letter mysticism. And if you're familiar with Cagliastro, when he
Speaker 5: addressed one of one of his most famous events was
Speaker 5: addressing the Masons during the which convention. It was the
Speaker 5: Masonic Convention of seventeen eighty five, which he did some
Speaker 5: demonstrations because you know, they were they were really skeptical
Speaker 5: of this Cagliastro character, but then he ended up blowing
Speaker 5: them away with what his demonstrations and his predictions. He
Speaker 5: predicted a lot, but the tie in there was the
Speaker 5: letter mysticism. You know. He he showed them the alphabet
Speaker 5: of the Magi and he kind of laughed at them
Speaker 5: with how they explain the word INR I n R I.
Speaker 5: You know know I come from Judea. I have passed
Speaker 5: through Nazareth led by Raphael. I'm the tribe of Judah.
Speaker 5: He said, gentlemen, how such stupid nonsense to be accepted
Speaker 5: by intelligent Frenchmen. And then he goes on to give
Speaker 5: the true meaning of it using the UH, the Magi
Speaker 5: language of you know, the I and our I and
Speaker 5: it has to do with alchemy, you know, the Hermetic principles,
Speaker 5: the two principles, the union of polarities, and you know
Speaker 5: the third wonderful thing. So it's a really interesting time
Speaker 5: there with Paracelsus and Cagliastro.
Speaker 1: I'll just add this quickly that I actually find it
Speaker 1: really fascinating how both of you sort of referenced the
Speaker 1: idea of this, like the sun is at the sun,
Speaker 1: so you have but it's from mercury. It's from mercury
Speaker 1: that the sun, right, right, So but it is it
Speaker 1: is kind of the marriage and then but it's it's
Speaker 1: hoe to tiperth. Yeah, I find that so fascinating because
Speaker 1: you see it in many religions.
Speaker 3: Well, and I think with Paracelsus he even tells you
Speaker 3: that they have switched the metals to basically accult the
Speaker 3: true practice. So you know, if you become familiar with
Speaker 3: the concepts, ideas and you can see the truisms within them,
Speaker 3: then you will come to the realization that indeed mercury
Speaker 3: is the sun.
Speaker 5: You know, that's interesting. I remember Rudolph Steiner talked about
Speaker 5: something similar with astrology and how you know, traditionally Mercury
Speaker 5: was swapped with Venus, and that opened up an interesting
Speaker 5: rabbit hole. When I went back and studied some of
Speaker 5: the CIRT information, especially with my Lucifer Unveiled the series,
Speaker 5: I went pretty pretty deep into that topic and how
Speaker 5: the planets were occulted as.
Speaker 3: Well, And I would imagine that depending upon the system,
Speaker 3: they were occulted in different ways. So depending on the
Speaker 3: system that you're looking at, you have to somehow divine
Speaker 3: the key to be able to unlock the system.
Speaker 5: Correct. You know where I got the key Kabbala the
Speaker 5: four worlds. You just use the four worlds and you
Speaker 5: see your placement on the tree whichever subject you're on,
Speaker 5: and there's a lot of cabalistic keys that unlock Rudolph
Speaker 5: Steiner's work. Some of it sounds fantastic on you know
Speaker 5: when you when you first read it or whatnot, but
Speaker 5: then you look at it, you know, from the cabalistic perspective,
Speaker 5: it makes a lot of sense. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I love Steiner's work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, I could see him being influenced by.
Speaker 4: Oh he was one hundred, there's like no, oh.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, definitely definitely he uh and JB. Kernan was
Speaker 5: another influence we have evidence that he plagiarized from JB.
Speaker 5: Kerinnin didn't give credit on some of his lectures, which
Speaker 5: it's coming out in the second Mylanders book. It's really interesting.
Speaker 5: It's going to talk about Rudolph Steiner. You know, we
Speaker 5: put him on the pedestal, but you know he's a
Speaker 5: great teacher for you know what he what he shared,
Speaker 5: but he's still you know, he presented some ideas as
Speaker 5: his as his own that you know, we learned it
Speaker 5: really wasn't his ideas one hundred percent, which is and
Speaker 5: a lot of it comes from Mylander's background and especially JB. Kernan,
Speaker 5: like word for word some of his letter mysticism teachings.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I just want to say this one thing about
Speaker 1: the planet's being occulted, because I think it's so interesting
Speaker 1: that the idea was brought up because it is sort
Speaker 1: of understood to be like that in TNTRA, where like
Speaker 1: the certain deities that are placed supernal to the planet
Speaker 1: are stars or like greater than the stars, so the
Speaker 1: stars actually are supernal to the grajas are supernal to
Speaker 1: the planets. So I think that's interesting because we are
Speaker 1: much more in a planetary culture like we we are
Speaker 1: names of the week. I mean it's we really revolve
Speaker 1: around the planets. And then also that idea is that
Speaker 1: they can shift, and I think this is true for
Speaker 1: like the jets erratic astrology, like the the ideas that
Speaker 1: the actually the sphere, the planetary nature of the sphere
Speaker 1: changes in different sort of turnings of the wheel and
Speaker 1: so and like what Robbie was saying, like what is
Speaker 1: the key to use? Well like and so some of
Speaker 1: the tuns crop sees there's like a sixty year cycle,
Speaker 1: there's a seventy year cycle. And some of the you know,
Speaker 1: like the very online Indian Twitter guys, they'll use like
Speaker 1: these really weird vedic calculations and make like and say,
Speaker 1: oh the Kelly goes like a million years old, But
Speaker 1: when you use the contric calculation, it's actually quite short
Speaker 1: periods of time.
Speaker 4: Like who do you listen to? Why do you listen
Speaker 4: to it? And so yeah, that's something that I'm really fascinated.
Speaker 1: There's like haulting on the planets and how they work
Speaker 1: because there is a shift, like there's a shifting nature
Speaker 1: of them, so you have to also sort of account
Speaker 1: for that.
Speaker 3: So the uh Me and Jen are about to do
Speaker 3: a series on the Books of Enoch. But the Books
Speaker 3: of Enoch they go into the different gates and the
Speaker 3: different planets and how the planets move and interact with
Speaker 3: one another, and the season, and then it also corresponds
Speaker 3: all the miscellaneous angelic forces that associate with those different houses, seasons, planets, gates,
Speaker 3: et cetera. It's it's a quite interesting calendar.
Speaker 4: So this is really interesting. Sorry, Nick, this is a
Speaker 4: really interesting.
Speaker 1: Robbie, because honestly, it's when you brought the idea to me,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this sounds like so much like
Speaker 1: Chalco Sambara, like like a very high level tontric text
Speaker 1: where he's talking about like oh, there's odiot comes in
Speaker 1: on this portal and it's depicted in this way, and
Speaker 1: then there's this thing and he's standing on this like
Speaker 1: these animal gods and this is the reason why. And
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, Like, the Book of
Speaker 1: Enoch is kind of like a version.
Speaker 4: Maybe not one to one, but there's right, there's clearly
Speaker 4: like yeah.
Speaker 1: A system there that makes total sense, Like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you.
Speaker 2: All right, Uh, I guess we'll just wrap it up
Speaker 2: the other right.
Speaker 3: Sure, it's good minute, eleven minutes and eleven seconds.
Speaker 2: Oh nice, all right, thank you very much, Absdentian for
Speaker 2: coming on. That was actually, you know, it was a
Speaker 2: fun It was a fun hour and fifteen minute you know,
Speaker 2: less than that with the intro, uh you know, show
Speaker 2: very well, uh, well done. We talked about a lot
Speaker 2: of different things. I think it was just interesting stuff
Speaker 2: when it comes to alchemy real quick before we wrap
Speaker 2: it up, Jin, do you want to plug yourself one
Speaker 2: more time?
Speaker 1: Sure? Just follow me on Twitter at Wukong Reborn or
Speaker 1: at Threshold Saints also an ins same Threshold Saints. And yeah,
Speaker 1: you can just see what I'm up to, always doing something.
Speaker 1: And I have a space live space on Saturday, and
Speaker 1: I will be on several more quite a few more episodes.
Speaker 4: Of Rejux in the near future. So see and yeah,
Speaker 4: subscribe and likes the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. I really appreciate it. And mister Marx,
Speaker 2: thank you again. You want everybody, I want to let
Speaker 2: everybody know where they can find all the work that
Speaker 2: you've done on other people's shows.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I just want to say thanks for having
Speaker 3: me on. It's always a great conversation. This is like
Speaker 3: some really fun stuff. And like you're saying, this is
Speaker 3: a nice break for me. So yeah, if you want
Speaker 3: to find my stuff, my artwork, my Twitter, Instagram, et cetera,
Speaker 3: et cetera, you can go to my link tree, which
Speaker 3: is our m A r X R Marx at link
Speaker 3: tree and then I'll pull up everything I got awesome.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much again, sir. I always love having
Speaker 2: you on and Absidarian let everybody know again where they
Speaker 2: can fund your stuff.
Speaker 5: Yes, well, thanks again, gentlemen, it's been a pleasure. You
Speaker 5: guys can find my work on linktree, Apsidaren. At linktree
Speaker 5: you'll find all my links their social media, Patreon and
Speaker 5: research links there.
Speaker 2: Thank you of course, and thank you for coming on, sir.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm pretty sure we'll have more discussions going forward.
Speaker 2: Thank you all again for coming on tonight. Everybody's links
Speaker 2: are in the bottom so you can check out all
Speaker 2: their work. And until the next one, everybody be well
Speaker 2: later