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Terms and conditions apply. 36 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:32.120 See website for details. 37 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:33.319 Radio. 38 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:45.879 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 39 00:01:45.959 --> 00:01:49.000 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 40 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:55.159 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker DTK. 41 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:59.840 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 42 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:04.079 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 43 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:07.599 your host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 44 00:02:17.240 --> 00:02:21.919 Good Evening one October night in nineteen ninety three, at 45 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:26.280 one of the campgrounds dotting Florida's Gulf Coast, ex con 46 00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:29.479 Eddie Lee Sexton told his daughter Pixie to silence her 47 00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:34.240 crying baby. Incredibly, the young mother smothered the helpless infant, 48 00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:37.479 stuffed its tiny corpse into a gym bag, and then 49 00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:40.960 buried it in a shallow grave. Less than a month later, 50 00:02:41.159 --> 00:02:44.639 Eddie Lee ordered his son Willie to strangle the baby's 51 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:48.960 bereaved father during a family picnic. Sexton was priming his 52 00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:52.560 third victim when the FBI and Florida cops finally caught 53 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:56.879 up with him. Authorities soon learned, soon learned that these 54 00:02:57.000 --> 00:02:59.719 killings were the final heinous acts of a sadistic, in 55 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:04.080 so frestuous monster whose reign of psychological and sexual violence 56 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:07.919 had begun back in Ohio. For years, Eddie Lee whipped 57 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:11.599 his children daily, raped his daughter's, abused his sons, and 58 00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:16.879 even fathered three inbred Sexton babies. But in early nineteen 59 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:22.680 ninety two, after teenage Michelle Sexton's courageous flight authorities, the 60 00:03:22.759 --> 00:03:26.680 walls of silence surrounding this house of horrors crumbled. We're 61 00:03:26.759 --> 00:03:31.240 terrifying detail. Lowell Caufield takes us into a shocking world 62 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:35.719 of abuse, incest, and family murder, a world ruled by 63 00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:39.280 a psychopath whose ability to manipulate his children produced one 64 00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:43.080 of the most sensational cases in true crime history. The 65 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:46.000 book that we're featuring this evening is House of Secrets 66 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:50.400 with my special guest, journalist and author and filmmaker Lowell Coffeel. 67 00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:52.680 Welcome to the program, and thank you for a greeting 68 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:53.319 this interview. 69 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:57.400 Lowell Coffeel, Well, good evening, Dan, and I just got 70 00:03:57.439 --> 00:03:59.960 to say, listening to your intro makes me just want 71 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:02.639 cozy up here in rainy LA right now with a 72 00:04:02.680 --> 00:04:07.000 hot chocolate and just think about those pantheonic killers. You've 73 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:08.759 got some great ones in the opening there. 74 00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:14.199 Ah, absolutely, and this is going to join the legions 75 00:04:14.280 --> 00:04:18.399 of in true crime history for sure. Definitely a classic. 76 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:22.800 Before we start, I think it's really important, and we 77 00:04:22.959 --> 00:04:25.519 touched on it beforehand, So why don't we go into 78 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:28.879 this a little bit. And what I found interesting, because 79 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:31.399 you really don't see this, is that you said that 80 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:34.759 this in your introduction, that this book is there is 81 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:42.120 no fictionalization whatsoever in the book. Tell us why you 82 00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:45.959 felt that that was important, and then you can maybe 83 00:04:45.959 --> 00:04:49.279 talk about the amount of research. Some people spend a 84 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:51.399 little bit of time on a true crime book. This 85 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:54.680 book tell us how long and tell us about the 86 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:57.319 research and tell us why you made a point with 87 00:04:57.439 --> 00:04:58.399 this fictionalization. 88 00:04:59.079 --> 00:05:01.879 Well, you know, I I come out of a journalistic background. 89 00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:05.680 I worked for eight or nine years with the Detroit News, 90 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:08.040 which was a big afternoon daily, and then became a 91 00:05:08.079 --> 00:05:11.879 magazine writer and then got hooked on the idea of 92 00:05:11.959 --> 00:05:16.079 doing books. And one of my mentors was Jack Olson, 93 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:19.240 the great true crime master, who wrote some great books 94 00:05:19.319 --> 00:05:22.759 like Son of Psychopath and His Victims, And another one 95 00:05:22.839 --> 00:05:26.560 was Hugh Ainsworth who wrote The Only Living Witness. And 96 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:30.759 what I was impressed about was that how these authors 97 00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:38.800 unfolded so much detail and it had they felt like novels. 98 00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:41.959 They read like novels. They had all the things that 99 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:46.759 novels have, metaphor and great dialogue and symbolism and things 100 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:49.959 like that. But as I got to know the authors, 101 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:52.839 it says, no, we research, we don't make up a thing. 102 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:58.360 And back then true crime books were hardcover, so that 103 00:05:58.519 --> 00:06:00.399 was the standard you wanted to get to. And in 104 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:04.519 order to do a hardcover book, you know, people wanted 105 00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:09.519 to know the details and they want those details to 106 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:11.959 be true. Plus who the hell wants to get sued 107 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:16.720 too making anything up? And so just coming out of 108 00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:21.480 that journalistic background, I just became a research fiend. And 109 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:24.120 what I found, and you know, I would attend a 110 00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:26.360 trial or get a transcript or a trial, and I 111 00:06:26.360 --> 00:06:28.879 would only look at a trial as like almost what 112 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:31.399 we used to call a roller decks or a contact 113 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:34.120 sheet of who I had to talk to, and then 114 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:37.079 interview all the people that testified in the trial and 115 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:39.920 the people that didn't testify, and the family and the 116 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:44.480 victims and the killer, and just run a lot of tape. 117 00:06:44.519 --> 00:06:46.800 I run hundreds of hours of tapes. And I had 118 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:49.680 a gal that would transcribe my tapes and then compare 119 00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:54.439 those two police reports, my own observations and everything else. 120 00:06:54.439 --> 00:07:00.160 And I became so confident in the material that that 121 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:02.519 I was able to do dialogue and things like that. 122 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:05.079 But here's the interesting thing that happened, and it happened 123 00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:08.120 with my first book called Masqueraded True Story, Seduction, Compulsion 124 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:11.480 and Murder. What I found that all the things that 125 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:14.439 novelists use, and this is kind of the new journalism 126 00:07:14.519 --> 00:07:18.240 school of journalism that was written about by Tom Wolfe, 127 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:22.120 is what I found is that in reality there's symbolism. 128 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:26.519 In reality, there's a metaphor. In reality, you need a 129 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:30.000 weather description, although I do subscribe to the Elmore Leonard 130 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:32.639 thing of book writing, never start a book with weather. 131 00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:37.439 But if you needed weather in a scene, for example, 132 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:40.160 all she had to do was contact the National Weather 133 00:07:40.240 --> 00:07:42.639 Service and you could determine what the weather looked like 134 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:46.600 that day. So I found that all those wonderful things 135 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:50.319 that fiction writers used were available to nonfiction writers. Now, 136 00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:53.439 the beauty of nonfiction. And you know today I write 137 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:58.079 for film and television, and I write fiction and script 138 00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:02.279 and stuff. And you've got to make fiction believable. You know, 139 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:05.759 you can't try something absurd because the audience will go, well, 140 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:09.399 that would never happen, that things stupid. The beauty of nonfiction, 141 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:14.480 particularly nonfiction crime, the crazier it is, and the more 142 00:08:14.600 --> 00:08:18.519 unbelievable it is, right, the better it is, which is 143 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:21.439 the opposite of fiction, which has to be made believable. 144 00:08:21.639 --> 00:08:24.000 So why would I want to make up anything if 145 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:27.560 I've got all these unbelievable events and these ironies and 146 00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:30.279 things like that. And so, and I hope I'm not 147 00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:32.440 going too long on this, but every I start every 148 00:08:32.440 --> 00:08:37.879 book documenting, you know exactly where I got my material, 149 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:41.919 you know, from so many hundred hours of interviews, you know, 150 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:47.120 trial transcripts, et cetera, et cetera, and other documented, proven 151 00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:51.279 journalistic sources of information. And I think that you know, 152 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:58.120 particularly the hardcover true crime reader, wants that you know, Look, 153 00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:00.600 we can all pick up a paper, turn on true 154 00:09:00.679 --> 00:09:03.879 TV and see the surface of the case. But to me, 155 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:06.879 what makes a great true crime book is to dig 156 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:09.919 way deep underneath into the psychology and into all the 157 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:14.200 things that the newspapers never wrote about and get you 158 00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:17.559 in with the family. You know, families that never typically 159 00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:21.679 often you know, talk and news stories or they never interviewed. 160 00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:24.559 And that's a real challenge too as a researcher because 161 00:09:24.919 --> 00:09:28.320 typically when you come into a true crime case, all 162 00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:31.120 that's already happened, and you've got a family that's maybe 163 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:33.840 been abused by the press, and it's a real challenge 164 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:37.039 to get their confidence and get talking to you. So 165 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:39.919 that's what I love to do, and I used to 166 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:41.879 love to do. I don't do these books anymore. And 167 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:45.639 we can talk about why I don't later, But that's 168 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:50.559 my approach. And I've Jack Olden and Hugh Ainsworth to 169 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:51.200 thank for that. 170 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:54.960 Well, we will have to thank them for that certainly 171 00:09:56.240 --> 00:10:00.080 now Before we get right into this story, and I 172 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:01.519 I love the way you open, and I love the 173 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:04.600 way you unfold this story. And it's really in the 174 00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:06.480 end when you read it, at the very very end, 175 00:10:06.519 --> 00:10:10.480 you go, yeah, that's really the best way, and you 176 00:10:10.519 --> 00:10:15.960 know the necessary way to unfold this. This is your last, 177 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:19.919 This was your You didn't write any more non, I 178 00:10:19.960 --> 00:10:22.559 mean true crime after this, So. 179 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:23.919 This one finished me off. 180 00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:28.279 Tell us how you came to write this book, why 181 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:30.360 you felt compelled to write this, or what were the 182 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:35.120 circumstances surrounding you coming to write House of Secrets. 183 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:39.759 Well, this is kind of ironic. I had a multi 184 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:45.080 book contract with Kensington, which publishes a lot of true 185 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:48.440 crime in a great editor there named Paul Denis, and 186 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:52.039 I had one more book to do and under the contract, 187 00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:56.120 and one day he sends me some ap stories about 188 00:10:56.639 --> 00:11:00.320 this murder down in this campground and this patriarch, Eddie 189 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:04.159 Lee Sexton, who was being charged for murder even though 190 00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:07.639 he hadn't committed the murder, he had ordered his son, 191 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:10.320 his daughter to commit a murder, and his son to 192 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:14.080 commit a murder. And I immediately went, oh, Manson, you know, 193 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:19.360 because Charles Manson never hands On killed anybody. And as 194 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:22.080 I look at the associated press reports of this said, 195 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:24.320 I thought, oh, this is going to be an easy book. 196 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:28.559 You know, famous last words, Right, this is going to 197 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:32.879 be easy book. I can just really work into the psychology. 198 00:11:32.919 --> 00:11:37.159 How did he manipulate, you know, the son and daughter 199 00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:41.039 to do this? I could fulfill the contract and kind 200 00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:44.240 of move on. I was thinking about also getting into 201 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:49.720 fiction at that time, and so I took it on, 202 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:54.399 thinking it was going to be easy. Easy turned into 203 00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:59.320 three years of work, three years of two and a 204 00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:04.320 half years of research. The case takes place in Canton, Canton, Ohio. 205 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:08.759 At the time, I was living in Detroit Detroit area, 206 00:12:08.840 --> 00:12:11.000 so that's about a two and a half hour drive. 207 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:14.440 And as I begin to get into this thing, it 208 00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:16.720 was like a black hole. I mean, that's the best 209 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:19.320 way to describe it. It was like a bottomless pit. 210 00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:23.840 As I begin to interview the kids and the people, 211 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:27.440 it was so much more than what I thought it was, 212 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:30.240 And it was like a It was not only a 213 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:33.320 house of secrets, it was a house of mirrors. And 214 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:36.559 the key, some of the key characters are the key. 215 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:40.759 Older kids were highly traumatized because of the way they 216 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:45.240 had been brought up. I mean, these kids had been 217 00:12:45.320 --> 00:12:50.279 tortured and raped, routinely, abused, had to keep secrets with 218 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:54.919 each other. We're always, you know, either fighting with each other, 219 00:12:55.320 --> 00:12:57.919 but loved the dad, but then the dad would turn 220 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:02.080 them against each other. It was like I called him, 221 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:06.159 America's most dysfunctional family. And all this was taking place 222 00:13:06.279 --> 00:13:12.120 behind this facade of a suburban home in Canton, Ohio, 223 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:15.480 where people who met this family thought, oh, what a wonderful, 224 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:20.440 big family. There were seven seven girls and five boys, 225 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:23.559 I believe, yeah, no, seven boys and five girls, well 226 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:28.000 behaved kids, you know, the perfect kind of big, loving family. 227 00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:35.720 But behind this facade was this absolute sadistic insanity going on. 228 00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:38.519 So as I began to put the story together and 229 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:43.159 then getting the court transcripts and everything, I began hearing 230 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:46.120 things like, well, you know, one time, you know, Shelley 231 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:49.679 had a baby and we killed it and we had 232 00:13:49.720 --> 00:13:53.639 a ritual over it, and I'm thinking this is all bloney. 233 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:54.039 You know. 234 00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:57.000 Those were some of my first impressions that these kids 235 00:13:57.039 --> 00:14:00.720 were exaggerating. But as I worked harder on it and 236 00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:07.200 worked closely with the police detective that investigated it, this 237 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:10.000 stuff was true, and just about the time we'd get 238 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:12.519 some new information to think, oh, no, that couldn't have happened, 239 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:16.759 but it did happen. So on and on and on. 240 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.000 It went for three years, getting deeper and deeper and deeper, 241 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:23.879 and at the end of it it was like a 242 00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:30.879 trip through through the heart of darkness. I couldn't believe 243 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:34.759 the human beings, particularly family members, could do these kind 244 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:37.559 of things to each other, and that this patriarch at 245 00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:42.320 Eveley Sexton, who was this madman psychopath who believed he 246 00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:45.759 was creating some kind of master race called the Futuitrons, 247 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:50.720 had done this to his kids. And it never ended. 248 00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:54.000 There was always something new we were finding out, and 249 00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:57.480 then here's what happened. And this is the answer your question. Directly, 250 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:02.879 this was like true crimes version of King Tut's Tomb Curse, 251 00:15:03.879 --> 00:15:08.039 because all of us who investigated this case started having 252 00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:13.519 things happen to us. The detective Ready who broke the case, 253 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:17.159 had two heart attacks, they had a Department of Social 254 00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:21.679 services went into a clinical depression. The social worker who 255 00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:25.799 carried who directly worked with the kids, started carrying a 256 00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:28.360 gun and then he had a heart attack. And this 257 00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:32.679 woman named Anne Green, who was one of the real 258 00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:36.080 advocates for one of the kids that disclosed developed a 259 00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:39.799 brain tumor and had to be operated on. And then 260 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:44.320 I went into this incredible clinical depression. I didn't know 261 00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:47.200 it was clinical depression at the time, but when I 262 00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:50.759 tried to write the book, I only got out twenty 263 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:54.480 eight pages in three months. And I'm a six to 264 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:58.919 eight pages a day kind of writer, and I just couldn't, 265 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:02.399 you know, I just couldn't write it. I called up 266 00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:04.440 Kenjington and says, I'm not going to do the book, 267 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:07.720 forget it right. You know, I can't do the book, 268 00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:13.679 and they threatened assue me, so that kind of motivated me. 269 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:17.080 I still couldn't write. I finally went and saw Position 270 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:20.000 and he told me I was suffering from a former depression. 271 00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:23.799 I went on antidepressants. I went into my writing studio 272 00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:27.879 and I wrote this book in thirty eight days, which 273 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:31.200 is unheard of. I was kicking out fifteen pages a day, 274 00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:34.720 twenty pages a day, but I felt like I was 275 00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:39.080 climbing out on a ladder out of hell. And when 276 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:41.720 I what's so funny about this is when I finished 277 00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:45.240 the book, I packaged it up because back then we 278 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:47.919 were you know, we put it in manuscript form on paper, 279 00:16:47.960 --> 00:16:49.960 and I shipped it off FedEx, and I had a 280 00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:52.120 note to Paul Dannis. I said, Paul, I never want 281 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:54.279 to hear about this book again. I don't want to 282 00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:56.519 see the cover. Go ahead and publish it. I fulfilled 283 00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:01.000 the contract, I don't want to hear about it. And 284 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:04.519 a year and a half and I did do one 285 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:08.160 TV show. But then after that, about a year and 286 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:11.839 a half later, Google had just come, you know, gotten popular, 287 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:14.920 and I googled my name and I see Lowell Coffeel 288 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:17.839 in New York Times. What was I doing in New 289 00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:20.440 York Times? And I was on the best seller list. 290 00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:24.519 And I called the editor and said, hey, man, I'm 291 00:17:24.519 --> 00:17:27.279 on the bestseller list. You know, why didn't you tell me? 292 00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:29.480 And they laughed and said, well, he said, you didn't 293 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:32.279 want to hear anything about the book, so but it 294 00:17:32.359 --> 00:17:35.680 finished me off. I really felt that, like you know, 295 00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:37.880 I was always fascinated with the dark side of the 296 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:40.359 human experience, because I don't think you can understand the 297 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:43.000 positive side of human experience and unless you understand the 298 00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:45.759 dark side. And I felt I had mind it completely 299 00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:52.440 and I just didn't want to. You know, my father 300 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:55.079 also died while I was writing the book, and so 301 00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:57.880 I mean it was like this curse and everybody that 302 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:01.440 touched it. And you know, you've read the book. There 303 00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:04.559 are some paranormal things that go on in this book 304 00:18:05.079 --> 00:18:07.839 where you have three kids in different parts of the 305 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:11.519 country having psychological breakdowns all in the same hour as 306 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:15.720 if the baby's being killed a thousand miles away in Florida. 307 00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:19.039 You know, there's weird stuff that goes on. And so 308 00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:21.960 it's really you know how it's the secrets. I think 309 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:25.160 it's beyond true crime. It's like a rob zombie movie 310 00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:30.119 or you know, Texas chains on Masacre kind of thing. 311 00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:34.640 It's a it's a horror story. 312 00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:38.960 Well, speaking that of that, and that's a great segue 313 00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:44.839 for our audience. We like to really go back. Somebody 314 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:48.079 just commented yesterday about how they like that we talk 315 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:51.519 about the killer's background, not that there's any real answers 316 00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:54.039 to some of these people. And certainly, once we give 317 00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:58.000 all the details of this story, there's no explaining this. 318 00:18:58.519 --> 00:19:02.319 But let's go back to leave Sexton and his background, 319 00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:05.839 and then we'll go to a Stella mat his wife 320 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:10.240 and talk about a little bit about their background. If 321 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:13.559 there is you can offer some kind of somewhat of 322 00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:15.640 an explanation for some of the behavior. 323 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:20.319 Well, Lee Junior or Eddierley text and you know, grew 324 00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:24.279 up in coal country in uh in West Virginia, and 325 00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:26.480 uh there were there were a lot of people that 326 00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:29.440 came out of West Virginia and you know, moved to Ohio. 327 00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:32.200 But when he was a kid, I mean, he had 328 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:37.640 some of those classic uh, you know traits that among 329 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:40.799 you know, psychopaths we all love and hate. He was 330 00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:46.480 a fire starter. Uh he killed people's pet animals, things 331 00:19:46.519 --> 00:19:48.839 like that. But he he he he came from a 332 00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:52.759 very kind of a poor family in West Virginia and 333 00:19:53.400 --> 00:20:00.079 uh a religious family. And interestingly enough, you know, I 334 00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:02.559 believe I'm trying to remember here. It's been a long 335 00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:04.799 time since did the book, but I believe he did. 336 00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:08.039 He served some time in the military, and when he 337 00:20:08.119 --> 00:20:12.960 got out and then he moved to Ohio, that religious 338 00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:18.319 upbringing that he got in West Virginia kind of became 339 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:22.640 part of his psychopathology. I know, he had sort of 340 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:27.559 a mail order minister's license and one of the real 341 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:33.720 crackpot psychopathic ideas he had in which he manipulated his 342 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:38.759 kids with as he began having children with his wife 343 00:20:39.319 --> 00:20:45.160 Stella May was he was using some scriptural references that 344 00:20:46.599 --> 00:20:50.279 are contained in the Old Testament, which, by the way, 345 00:20:50.359 --> 00:20:53.240 today a lot of conspiracy theorists are into this, that 346 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:57.920 there there were beings that came down out of heaven 347 00:20:58.359 --> 00:21:05.960 and they bred with women, you know, human women, and 348 00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:11.599 created this special race. And he thought that he was 349 00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:16.200 part of that lineage. And he told some of the 350 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:20.359 kids that they were part of that lineage, and he 351 00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:25.960 called them future trons. And as the kids got older 352 00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:30.480 than he would have marriage ceremonies for the daughters, and 353 00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:33.960 nobody knew, of course, this was going on except within 354 00:21:34.039 --> 00:21:36.839 the family. Then have sex with the daughters and then 355 00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:42.000 produced these There were three inbred children that were produced 356 00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:46.559 as a result of that. But the answer your question directly, 357 00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:48.960 I don't know what makes a psycho past. I mean, 358 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:51.920 they come from and every from every kind of background, 359 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:54.960 every kind of Some of them are abused as kids, 360 00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:59.599 some of them aren't. I'm trying to recall whether Eddie 361 00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:02.240 Lee was abused. I think there was some of that. 362 00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:06.400 You know, they come from poor families, they come from 363 00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:10.039 wealthy families. But I came to the conclusion with Eddie 364 00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:15.200 Lee that he was just evil incarnate. So that's about 365 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:18.400 the best explanation I have for this guy. And I 366 00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:20.960 have no sympathy, you know, for him in any kind 367 00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:22.640 of way, and he's certainly not any kind of a 368 00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:24.599 victim in any kind of way. But he was also 369 00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:26.839 a con man. He knew how to work the social 370 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:32.799 services departments for food stamps. He claimed to be disabled. 371 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:36.160 He was drawing Social Security for you know, being disabled. 372 00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:41.000 That was a whole charade that he put on. He 373 00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:43.119 had a social service worker to come and visit, and 374 00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:45.079 he had a hospital bed in there, and he'd be 375 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.440 in a wheelchair, and you know, he had all the 376 00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:51.000 typical cons of the sea out of a lot of psychopaths. 377 00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:58.839 But I think what made him unique was this idea 378 00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:03.440 of blending of this old style can't revival religion in 379 00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:04.480 with his evils. 380 00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:11.720 You say in the book too, that you start off 381 00:23:11.799 --> 00:23:16.400 with describing the home itself. The house itself again a 382 00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:19.680 little bit of imagery for the family's not in there. 383 00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:23.160 This trial has concluded, this case is concluded, and someone 384 00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:26.279 else is going to buy this house. And they were 385 00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:29.039 a neighbor that didn't know the family that well. But 386 00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:35.359 you described the house itself. Somebody might want privacy or 387 00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:39.200 create privacy if you're saying twelve people, twelve kids plus 388 00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:42.200 the two parents. But what did this house consist of? 389 00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:45.599 You talk about, you know, nine by eight rooms. 390 00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:47.559 You want me to talk about. 391 00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:49.279 Tell a little bit, Yeah, tell us a little bit 392 00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:51.920 about the house. What you could really gleam from, because 393 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:53.640 you open the book with it, and what you could 394 00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:56.839 really gleam from looking at this house, and you take 395 00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:59.720 the audience into this house to look at what's left, 396 00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:03.000 even what you can see from the We'll say, for example, 397 00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:06.319 the windows seem to have been boarded up from the inside, right. 398 00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:11.720 Yeah, the opening chapter. I don't write prologues because nobody 399 00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:17.160 reads them. I also don't write introductions because nobody reads 400 00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:19.319 those either. I learned that one from Melmore Leonard two. 401 00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:22.119