WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.960 --> 00:00:03.640 Oh hey, Okay, can I tell you a secret at 2 00:00:03.680 --> 00:00:06.080 the top of the show, because I'm going to Okay. So, 3 00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:08.880 for the last year and a half, I've been working 4 00:00:09.199 --> 00:00:12.880 in semi secret on a Netflix show for Higher Ground, 5 00:00:12.919 --> 00:00:16.879 which is a production company owned by Michelle and Barack Obama. 6 00:00:17.039 --> 00:00:19.000 And the show I've been working on is called Ad 7 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:22.120 to Twist Scientist, and it's an animated show. It's for kids. 8 00:00:22.199 --> 00:00:24.440 It's about a girl who's a young scientist and her 9 00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:26.679 friends Aggy and Rosie and all these experiments they do. 10 00:00:27.160 --> 00:00:29.480 And I've been a consultant on it, having to work 11 00:00:29.480 --> 00:00:31.280 on it in secret for a long time and helping 12 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:33.479 figure out the science of the experiments they do and 13 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:37.200 some plot lines and suggesting real life scientists, a lot 14 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:39.560 of them I know through ologies you know them, also 15 00:00:39.759 --> 00:00:42.520 to interview with the end of each episode, and the 16 00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:45.560 entire team was just the best. And I'm so proud 17 00:00:45.560 --> 00:00:47.679 of the show. We worked so hard on it for 18 00:00:47.679 --> 00:00:51.640 so long and it premieres today today, September twenty eighth, 19 00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:54.439 on Netflix. And I'm only telling you this because the 20 00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:56.079 creators of the show and the show runner and the 21 00:00:56.079 --> 00:00:58.479 whole team just works so hard and I hope you 22 00:00:58.520 --> 00:01:01.960 like it anyway, which was a scientists It's on Netflix now, Okay, 23 00:01:02.799 --> 00:01:05.879 onto the Ology show. It's me. It's your uncle who 24 00:01:05.959 --> 00:01:09.159 travels with a scented candle because he gets homesick on 25 00:01:09.239 --> 00:01:13.159 work trips. It's Ali Ward back with a kracklin smoke 26 00:01:13.239 --> 00:01:16.400 and hot episode of Ologies. It's all about fire and 27 00:01:16.599 --> 00:01:21.519 campfires and embers, heat, warmth And when did your ancestors, 28 00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:24.400 the ones whose names you're never going to know, the 29 00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:27.719 relatives billions of us have in common, when did they 30 00:01:27.719 --> 00:01:30.040 figure out how to use fire? And why and where 31 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:32.920 did it lead us? So there's a lab at Yale 32 00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:38.239 University dedicated to researching this hazy history of what our 33 00:01:38.319 --> 00:01:42.280 species has been through. And this ologist is the director 34 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:47.079 of that lab. He's worked on four continents, published papers 35 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:51.239 spanning half a million years of human history. He got 36 00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:56.439 his bachelor's studying physics and anthropology at Grenell College in Iowa, 37 00:01:56.799 --> 00:02:00.799 got his master's in PhD in anthropology from the University Minnesota, 38 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:05.959 and at the Yale Pyrotechnology Lab, also called Why pyro 39 00:02:06.560 --> 00:02:09.919 He and his colleague study how technology and history can 40 00:02:09.960 --> 00:02:12.439 be figured out by tracing our control of heat. But 41 00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:15.280 before we light the fuse, Let's thank the folks who 42 00:02:15.319 --> 00:02:18.280 support at patroon dot com slash ologies. You can join 43 00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:21.080 them for a dollar a month and submit questions to 44 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:23.719 the ologists before we record. Thank you to everyone who 45 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:27.199 rates and subscribes and reviews. I read them all. Here's 46 00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:30.919 a little proof still smoking. Lacey Freeman's review this week 47 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:34.360 said no flip flam. It's a Freeman fave as a 48 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:37.879 fellow gross person who likes gross things. Please never stop 49 00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:43.199 this podcast. We're cussing, Lacey. You get me, Okay, pyrotechnology, 50 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:46.599 let's do it. Gather around you naked ap babies and 51 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:52.120 listen to tales about sharp rocks, hairy jello, sootie caves, 52 00:02:52.319 --> 00:02:58.960 glowing coals, irons, sparks, burnt feet, wolf skulls, fluffy fungus, stomping, 53 00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:04.199 oprah to metal, some disaster movie trivia, ember tending, and 54 00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:29.840 more with anthropologist and pyrotechnologist doctor ellery From. Okay, first off, 55 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:32.599 can I get you to pronounce your first and last 56 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:33.960 name and tell me the pronouns you use? 57 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:37.960 Sure my name is ellery From and my pronouns are 58 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:38.759 he him. 59 00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:41.439 That's a great name, by the way, ELLERI From. 60 00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:45.800 I never have you know, people don't google it and 61 00:03:45.960 --> 00:03:47.439 end up with the wrong ellery. 62 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:51.719 From you have SEO optimization down. 63 00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:54.639 Yeah. Yeah, I mean I never was able to like 64 00:03:54.759 --> 00:03:58.199 find like pencils or name plates or anything like that 65 00:03:58.199 --> 00:03:58.759 as a kid. 66 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:01.000 Is it a historical name? 67 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:02.240 No? 68 00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:05.000 I mean well, I mean you'll see a lot of 69 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:09.680 like British like William Ellery Channing and William ellery. But 70 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:12.039 my parents literally just found it in a book. 71 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:15.039 Oh have you read the book? 72 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:18.120 I mean, there's there's so, there's Ellery Queen, the numb 73 00:04:18.199 --> 00:04:22.360 de plume for mystery writers. And I realized just recently that, 74 00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:25.639 after constantly hearing about are you named for Ellery Queen, 75 00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:31.439 I've never actually read any of the books, any of 76 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:33.959 the I think they were like radio mysteries anything. I've 77 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:36.000 never read a thing of it. I think I just 78 00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:37.480 kind of resented it as a kid. 79 00:04:37.759 --> 00:04:40.480 Okay, I looked up this author, Ellery Queen, and it 80 00:04:40.519 --> 00:04:43.040 turns out it was a nom de plume of two writers, 81 00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:46.800 cousins who worked on a team under one name. They 82 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:50.279 also went by Barnaby Ross, and they staged public debates 83 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:54.959 as Ellery Queen and Barnaby Ross, two fictitious people, and 84 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:57.800 they kept their faces covered to keep their fake identities 85 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:00.720 a secret, which is so much cooler than my childhood 86 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:06.720 dream of publishing sappy books under the pseudonym Dixon Ticonderoka. Anyway, 87 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:10.519 this ellery is not a fiction writer, He's a FactFinder. 88 00:05:10.839 --> 00:05:12.839 I feel like as a scientist, you're sort of a 89 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:15.600 detective anyway, right, Yeah, yeah, No. 90 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:21.759 We constantly liken ourselves as like Sherlock Holmes. I would 91 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:25.240 think this is just extracting every bit of data out. But 92 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:28.240 the alternative, though, is that is that Sherlock Holmes like 93 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:32.360 always found the bad guy, right, and we're like, that's 94 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:33.040 probably this. 95 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:37.279 It depends, It depends on. Yeah, a lot of scientists 96 00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:38.920 say that their answer for a lot of things starts 97 00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:40.319 with it depends. 98 00:05:40.279 --> 00:05:40.959 Which is true. 99 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:44.560 But how long have you been interested in way, way, 100 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:46.839 way back history paleo history. 101 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:49.240 I think I was as a kid. I was interested 102 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:53.439 especially in like astronomy, being a very deep field, and 103 00:05:53.959 --> 00:05:57.680 doing my PhD work, I was focusing more on the 104 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:01.360 Bronze Age, so like five thousand years ago, and then 105 00:06:01.879 --> 00:06:04.720 I was doing that research in Syria, and this was 106 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:07.360 about the time the Syrian Civil War broke out and 107 00:06:07.399 --> 00:06:11.879 so all archaeology there just stopped. But I had colleagues 108 00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:15.720 who were working in the Caucuses in what we call 109 00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:19.560 the Paleolithic, and they said you should come here, you'll 110 00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:25.360 love it. And obviously that stuck. Yeah it kin cut 111 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:26.839 the bug late maybe. 112 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:30.360 And your background initially was in physics, right. 113 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:34.959 Yeah, So I took a lot of both physics and 114 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:38.000 anthropology courses in college. I couldn't make the double major 115 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:42.120 work there were too many labs. But I basically grew 116 00:06:42.199 --> 00:06:45.079 up in a physics department. So my dad is still 117 00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:49.480 a technician in a science building at a liberal arts 118 00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:53.560 college in Wisconsin, and so I literally grew up in 119 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:57.040 a physics department, like literally riding my big wheel up 120 00:06:57.040 --> 00:07:01.879 and down the hallways and being called in when they 121 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:04.839 needed a small person for demos in the lecture hall 122 00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:09.040 and stuff like that. So like writing the fire extinguisher 123 00:07:09.079 --> 00:07:12.600 propelled tricycle was my specialty. 124 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:16.160 And then you ended up studying fire. That's actually kind 125 00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:16.600 of nice. 126 00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:19.199 Yeah, So I mean it was play. And when I 127 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:22.560 started taking a lot of anthropology and archaeology in college 128 00:07:22.600 --> 00:07:25.920 while doing a physics major, eventually there was just kind 129 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:28.240 of stumbled across the blend between the two. 130 00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:30.680 I don't know if this creeps you guys out, but 131 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:35.000 I have known about your lab and your work for years, 132 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:38.680 and I have always wanted to do a pyrotechnology episode. 133 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:39.800 Oh that's fantastic. 134 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:41.560 I'm sure you have to explain to people it is 135 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:45.639 not the study of fireworks, And it's. 136 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:50.160 Absolutely absolutely the question I get asked all the time, 137 00:07:50.199 --> 00:07:56.240 So you study ancient fireworks and like, no, but that 138 00:07:56.279 --> 00:07:59.040 would be within our purview if we were so inclined. 139 00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:03.680 So the general idea with pyrotechnology is it's a way 140 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:08.240 of kind of reframing human technology. But you can also 141 00:08:08.759 --> 00:08:12.000 lump a lot of human behavior and even human evolution 142 00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:17.800 into the control of fire, and not just controlling fire, 143 00:08:17.879 --> 00:08:23.160 but greater and greater control and achieving higher and higher temperatures, 144 00:08:23.639 --> 00:08:27.199 and so all the way back to you know, depending 145 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:30.879 on which sites are so inclined to believe, you could 146 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:34.039 be talking about a million years ago all the way 147 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:37.440 up through the twentieth century, when really only with the 148 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:43.080 advent of plastics plastics do we start getting technology that 149 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:47.399 doesn't depend on heat. You know, if you're talking about 150 00:08:47.879 --> 00:08:53.120 progressing through ceramics and glass and metals and new metals, 151 00:08:53.440 --> 00:08:57.399 it was all about about getting hotter forges and controlling 152 00:08:57.720 --> 00:09:00.960 how you're altering materials for longer and life longer. And 153 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:03.919 only when you start coming up with things like bakeolite 154 00:09:04.840 --> 00:09:08.200 and causing plastic polymers to form, that suddenly you get 155 00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:11.279 a trend in technology that now it's about more like 156 00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:15.399 how you control structures, so three D printing in nanotechnology 157 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:17.639 and stuff like that. But for most of human history 158 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:21.720 we were dependent on what temperatures we could attain and 159 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:24.679 how precisely we could control them and for how long 160 00:09:24.919 --> 00:09:26.879 we could keep those temperatures going. 161 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:31.120 Okay, quick side note, the invention of the first polymer 162 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:35.240 plastic bake light dates back to the early nineteen hundreds 163 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:40.440 and it was also called artificial amber or polyoxybenzyl methyl 164 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:45.240 and glycoalin hydride for short. And from a physics perspective, 165 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:48.279 can we back up and can you explain to me 166 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:52.120 what fire is? Is Is it too hard a question? 167 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:56.519 No? No, no, it's not so. Fire is a chemical reaction. 168 00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:00.159 I think it's easier to even think about a spark, 169 00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:04.679 and so you might think about a spark being made 170 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:08.440 from from flint striking a piece of steel, whether it's 171 00:10:08.840 --> 00:10:11.759 kind of an old old fashioned fire starting kit or 172 00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:13.480 on flintlock gun. 173 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:16.279 Flintlock guns in case you didn't know, came along in 174 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:20.000 the sixteen hundreds and relied on a chip of flint 175 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:25.519 striking steel to ignite gunpowder and send a bullet flying 176 00:10:25.559 --> 00:10:31.279 with the explosion. So imagine revolutionary war guns or something 177 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:35.720 a pirate would have tucked into their smelly pants. That spark. 178 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:37.919 That's also fire technology. 179 00:10:38.120 --> 00:10:42.240 Baby. So there's when those those two substances that that 180 00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:47.080 flint stone hits the iron rich steel, there's a spark, 181 00:10:47.639 --> 00:10:51.159 there's light, there's something that can cause an ignition. That 182 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:56.120 little particle that you see glowing is basically just a 183 00:10:56.440 --> 00:11:01.399 tiny little bit of iron atoms that have been scraped 184 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:06.039 off that steel and are now oxidizing right away, Okay, 185 00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:09.879 And that is what a spark is. It's that chemical 186 00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:14.440 reaction of oxidation extremely quick, and so that's on a 187 00:11:14.519 --> 00:11:16.919 larger scale, that's a lot of what's happening with fire. 188 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:23.000 It's a chemical reaction that is producing energy and gases 189 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:25.360 and you get the heat out of it, you get 190 00:11:25.399 --> 00:11:28.240 the light out of it as part of those those reactions. 191 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:31.000 But in the simplest formula, that's what it is. It's 192 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:34.480 a chemical reaction. What you typically associate with fire are 193 00:11:34.519 --> 00:11:38.799 those those photons of light and infrared making something hot. 194 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:45.440 But the chemical reaction, that particular substance undergoing this transformation 195 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:49.759 to ash perhaps is the byproducts of that chemical reaction, 196 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:54.039 but the fire itself is that it's almost a process 197 00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:55.600 rather than a thing. 198 00:11:56.080 --> 00:12:02.200 And it occurs in nature obviously lightning with what lava 199 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:05.039 catching things on fire? How else does it occur in 200 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:10.679 nature before we as a species understood how to create 201 00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:12.039 it versus control it. 202 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:16.120 Yeah, I mean you make an important distinction there between 203 00:12:17.080 --> 00:12:22.879 fire users and fire producers, right, so that we were 204 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:27.799 probably able to capture fire from like a natural lightning 205 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:31.159 strike or like you're saying, from something burning ahead of 206 00:12:31.159 --> 00:12:33.679 a lava flow, to the point of being able to 207 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:40.320 create it on demand is an important distinction, and of 208 00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:44.679 course that's one of the biggest challenges then to try 209 00:12:44.679 --> 00:12:49.759 and investigate in the past is distinguishing was there fire, 210 00:12:49.879 --> 00:12:53.879 But we're not convinced this is human related. It's just 211 00:12:53.960 --> 00:12:57.720 evidence of perhaps a forest fire or that there might 212 00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:00.960 have been sentiments that were heated on the ground. But 213 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:03.879 you know, there was a lava flow right nearby and 214 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:06.120 that's what reheated it. So yeah, I would I would 215 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:10.039 say you captured a lot of it. Certainly lightning is 216 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:14.559 I think what everyone kind of most associates with it. 217 00:13:14.679 --> 00:13:18.639 There's even some pictures of kind of early paleo art 218 00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:23.080 from like the fifties of Neanderthals using fire. They've started 219 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:26.159 a fire and to make sure they emphasized that this 220 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:28.759 was related to a lightning strike. The pale artist in 221 00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:35.000 the background has this rainbow, so you get this juxtapose, 222 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:39.360 you know, very brutish looking interpretation, very fifties interpretation of 223 00:13:39.399 --> 00:13:43.679 Neanderthals using fire, but then this lovely rainbow of the background, 224 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:46.720 which I think is just this fantastic juxtaposition. 225 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:52.399 And if we're talking about kind of vintage timelines and confusion, 226 00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:56.200 could you put on your anthropologists hat. I don't know 227 00:13:56.200 --> 00:13:58.320 if you have a literal one, if it's necessary or not, 228 00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:01.360 but can you give us a quick timeline of when 229 00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:04.399 as a species we did wash it? Like when did 230 00:14:04.399 --> 00:14:07.600 we start making fires? When did we start using tools 231 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:09.559 and stuff? I mean, just a quick timeline. 232 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:18.399 Yeah, anthropologists wear scarbs, Okay, yeah yeah, but yees. So 233 00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:25.200 the earliest essentially stone tools are what we have. When 234 00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:29.039 we're talking about what the earliest kind of archaeology is, 235 00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:32.519 we're going to go with it, it depends. There's debate. 236 00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:36.519 The most recent kind of oldest site is what's called 237 00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:40.559 lamech We three and what's now Kenya, and it's dated 238 00:14:40.600 --> 00:14:45.039 to a little more than three million years ago. That's 239 00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:49.679 a bit controversial, but even if you are more conservative 240 00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:51.720 and go to the next oldest site, you're still talking 241 00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:55.440 about two point six million years ago, and that's in Ethiopia. 242 00:14:55.519 --> 00:14:59.759 So these are very simple stone tools, very simple, and 243 00:14:59.799 --> 00:15:02.759 that you're talking about a flake, a chunk has been 244 00:15:02.840 --> 00:15:08.000 knocked off of a larger stone, either on purpose or 245 00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:12.519 accidentally at first. But those are the oldest stone tools. 246 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:17.279 There are similarly old kind of cut marks on bone 247 00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:19.399 as well and kind of that you know, more than 248 00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:22.320 a million ish years. So that's how long we've been 249 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:27.559 using stone tools. Wow, potentially three million plus years. And 250 00:15:27.639 --> 00:15:29.879 if it is three million plus years, we're talking about 251 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:36.919 pre genus Homo, pre that broad umbrella of humanity, So. 252 00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:40.200 We as a peoplehood Homo date back roughly two and 253 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:44.360 a half million years before this one ape. The Grandpapa 254 00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:48.879 of taxonomy, Carl Lnius, coined the genus Homo in seventeen 255 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:51.840 fifty eight, so making us all one big posse and 256 00:15:51.879 --> 00:15:57.039 I guess, giving all the other apes genus envy. That's 257 00:15:57.200 --> 00:15:58.840 so I should erase. 258 00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:03.360 That jump ahead to what are some of the oldest 259 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:08.879 indicators of fire use. Again, we're still looking in Africa. 260 00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:14.000 So there's Wonderwork cave in South Africa that has some 261 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:18.679 evidence for the presence of fire associated with early humans 262 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:22.919 at about one million years ago. Wow, by this time, 263 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:26.320 some tools are getting a little more advanced, but there's 264 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:28.720 still just kind of like pebbles with a few sharp 265 00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:31.799 edges on and chopping. When you get to the next 266 00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:34.840 kind of threshold of when you start to get some 267 00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:38.679 agreement about where and when fire is more common, you're 268 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:42.799 talking about maybe half a million to two or three 269 00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:46.320 hundred thousand years again depending on kind of which side 270 00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:48.799 of the debate you're on. And by that time we're 271 00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:52.879 talking about we're talking three hundred thousand years ago, we're 272 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:57.279 talking about the human ancestor called Homo erectus and almost 273 00:16:57.399 --> 00:17:02.200 transitioning in places like Europe into early Neanderthals. 274 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:06.640 Okay, so real quick. Neanderthals were human. They're the same 275 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:09.759 homogeneous but a different species, and they were shorter and 276 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:14.400 stock here, and they diverged from sapiens at least half 277 00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:17.519 a million years ago, and there's evidence that they could 278 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:21.079 create fire two hundred thousand years ago. They were also 279 00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:24.119 super smart, and they made art and jewelry, and we 280 00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:27.240 interbred with them a bunch, which means they probably smelled okay, 281 00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:28.640 and we're doped to chill. 282 00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:33.480 With And then you start getting advances, continuing innovations in 283 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:37.079 how the stone is being used to make tools. There 284 00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:41.759 are wood tools. Preservation is really bad for wood. You 285 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:46.000 might imagine. There are some some spears that are in 286 00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:50.640 that timeframe of tens of thousands of years old that 287 00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:53.799 have been preserved in Germany because they were trapped in 288 00:17:54.319 --> 00:18:00.359 like oil sands. So then we start to get modern 289 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:04.519 humans on the scene about in Eurasia. They're already modern 290 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:07.880 humans in Africa at this time, but at about that 291 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:12.759 forty thousand years ago, you start to get the replacement 292 00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:20.000 of or integration, or whichever way you want to interpret it, 293 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:25.000 the replacement of Neanderthals by modern humans by us, and 294 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:29.400 then spreading throughout the rest of Eurasia. And we don't 295 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:33.640 get things like ceramics until and if you think about ceramics, 296 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:37.559 were thinking about pots. That is not until what we 297 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:40.319 call the Neolithic. It's part of the Holocene, so we're 298 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:43.359 talking about after the Last Ice Age, and that's only 299 00:18:43.400 --> 00:18:45.759 within the last say, ten thousand years. 300 00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:47.839 So if you wish that you had a cheat sheet 301 00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:51.559 of the different scene eras, allow me to be that 302 00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:56.119 krypnoe cradled in your sweaty palm. So the Holocene started 303 00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:00.359 about eleven thousand years ago with a glacial retreat left 304 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:03.440 behind all these cute little lakes in Minnesota. And in 305 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:08.079 the Holocene humans started farming things and building stuff. So 306 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:11.440 then what is the enthropo scene. Well, it's a debated 307 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:15.039 term introduced in the early aughts, right around the time 308 00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:18.680 Gwen Stefani was gluing rhinestones to her face, and the 309 00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:23.079 enthroposcene denotes that this is the time of humanity, as 310 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:26.400 our species is having an impact on the planet and 311 00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:30.920 the geological record, what with things like mass extinctions and 312 00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:34.559 atom bombs and game shows and a bunch of space 313 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:38.039 toilets now orbiting the galaxy, you know, chernobyl things like 314 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:40.640 that that stick around in the record. But yes, the 315 00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:44.440 Holocene started eleven six hundred and fifty years ago, give 316 00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:47.960 or take, which in Earth terms is like yesterday. 317 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:52.440 So when you're talking about ceramics and everything that's followed, 318 00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:58.599 ceramic farming, glass metal, all this sort of stuff you're 319 00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:01.480 talking about more than ten thousand years. 320 00:20:01.279 --> 00:20:04.839 Ago, Oh so recent. Yeah she knew on the scene. 321 00:20:04.599 --> 00:20:07.839 Absolutely, Yeah, absolutely. But then these things build too because 322 00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:10.960 and this is where again kind of the integration of 323 00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:16.759 control of heat becomes interesting, because you can't say, smelt 324 00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:20.559 metals without having ceramics to pour them into. 325 00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:21.640 Ah hah. 326 00:20:21.920 --> 00:20:24.759 They're also they're also integrated as well. You can't you 327 00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:27.240 kind of can't get one without the other, and so 328 00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:30.799 they all kind of engage like on a gear that 329 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:33.960 you need. You need kind of each threshold to happen. 330 00:20:34.599 --> 00:20:37.640 Yeah, I mean, I imagine if I were just born 331 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:41.920 a baby in a forest somewhere, there is no way 332 00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:44.720 I would be able to take care of myself or 333 00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:47.559 figure out any of this. So we're always building on 334 00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:51.000 whatever we were left from the last generation, right, Yeah. 335 00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:53.759 I mean there's even a line in one of the 336 00:20:53.839 --> 00:20:57.400 Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxies where the main human character 337 00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:00.920 finds himself on a primitive planet that doesn't have technology, 338 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:02.799 and he thinks, like, I am going to rule them 339 00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:06.960 like a god. I am you know, modern human knower 340 00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:10.200 of technology that Arthur realized he could he could barely 341 00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:15.799 make himself toast, let alone a toaster. Yeah, so yeah, exactly. 342 00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:20.279 You innovate within kind of the zeitgeist around you and 343 00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:24.480 build up on what knowledge has existed before. Humans are 344 00:21:24.519 --> 00:21:28.279 also precocious too, and we kind of tinker, and that's 345 00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:32.039 how there can be multiple places that something like farming 346 00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:33.599 can be invented around the world. 347 00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:36.319 What exactly do they call that? When something's concurrent like that? 348 00:21:37.559 --> 00:21:39.839 I forget there's a word for it. Okay, So I 349 00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:44.880 looked it up. And this phenomenon of concurrent ideation manifests 350 00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:50.319 in a sort of cinematic convergent evolution called twin films. 351 00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:55.839 So think Armageddon and Deep Impact Volcano and Dante's Peak, 352 00:21:56.119 --> 00:21:59.880 Friends with Benefits and no Strings attached, the Atoms fan 353 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.680 in the Monsters, and dueling documentaries about bougie Island shit shows, 354 00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:08.839 which is a whole different field of fire festival research. 355 00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:10.720 There's like a word for it when it comes to 356 00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:14.559 like two screenplays being made at the same time. With twins, 357 00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:17.920 it's just sort of like what happens dance exactly exactly. 358 00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:20.640 So yeah, I mean you get that so that you know, 359 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:24.960 farming can be invented in different places, or pottery can 360 00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:29.400 be invented in different places. So that's always the challenge too, 361 00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:32.359 and where we have to start worrying about how well 362 00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:36.599 we know the ages of sites to start answering questions 363 00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:43.480 like was the use of fire invented in one place 364 00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:46.119 and then it's spread from there the knowledge of it 365 00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:49.200 not the fire, or where there multiple inventions throughout time 366 00:22:49.240 --> 00:22:52.279 that that really people just kind of figure this out 367 00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:55.079 and there were kind of multiple nuclei where where these 368 00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:56.519 sorts of innovations happened. 369 00:22:57.400 --> 00:23:00.240 Well, how do you think our ancestors first started to 370 00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:03.519 create the fire rather than just control it? Do you 371 00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:06.960 think it was just a flint and steel or was 372 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:10.480 it rubbing two sticks together vigorously? Like when I watch 373 00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:11.720 Naked and Afraid, we. 374 00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:13.720 Need to collect a whole lot of wood in a hurry. 375 00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:16.400 We cannot lose this fire or we're going to be 376 00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:17.440 right back where we started. 377 00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:20.839 I'm like, how did people figure this out a million 378 00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:21.359 years ago? 379 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:26.920 Yeah? So that again is a fantastic question, and it's 380 00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:31.200 it's hard to have the material evidence that as archaeologists 381 00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:34.880 we like to have. I mean, one of the oldest 382 00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:38.799 fire starting kits we have is again for most of 383 00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:41.279 the times we're talking about fairly recent but obviosly the 384 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:44.920 ice Man, so the Bronze Age man who fell into 385 00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:48.000 a glacier in the Alps and then was discovered in 386 00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:51.000 the nineties. He had a fire starting kit on him 387 00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:54.759 and so along with lots of other accoutremont. But he 388 00:23:55.640 --> 00:23:59.440 had a piece of pyrite, so iron sulfide, so something 389 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:03.079 that again you could free in an iron atom from 390 00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:06.440 and get a spark. He had plenty of stone tools, 391 00:24:06.839 --> 00:24:11.079 and then he also had like some really fluffy fungi 392 00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:15.039 that was probably like for starting the fire, for getting 393 00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:19.119 it going, and so probably something like this. I mean, 394 00:24:19.160 --> 00:24:23.440 there's been work done looking at it's called you swear 395 00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:27.759 or marx from if you were to strike a piece 396 00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:30.599 of that that pyrite against a stone tool, would it 397 00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:34.240 leave a mark, gouge or a scratch? Or if you 398 00:24:34.279 --> 00:24:37.559 were doing this on a stone tool, do you see 399 00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:42.799 marks on like not the business cutting edge? Right? And 400 00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:46.599 so there's been some work done on what are called 401 00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:49.799