WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.919 What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the 2 00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:06.000 Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up 3 00:00:06.040 --> 00:00:09.039 where he left off with Bill Gates and his interview 4 00:00:09.240 --> 00:00:15.919 with Congress mister Spector. Mister Gates. In the interest of time, 5 00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:18.800 I'm going to try to not introduce too many different 6 00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:21.160 things here, so I'll try to structure the questions in 7 00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:23.960 a way that we can do that. But just let 8 00:00:23.960 --> 00:00:26.920 me know if we need to. We discussed earlier that 9 00:00:26.960 --> 00:00:31.199 a meeting occurred with Epstein present in Washington. You mentioned 10 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:33.320 that earlier, and I think I told you that our 11 00:00:33.359 --> 00:00:37.640 DOJ records indicated that happened on August State twenty thirteen. 12 00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:41.920 Does that sound about right to you? Moron jumps In? 13 00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:46.600 Sorry you said DC or Washington State? Spector sorry, excuse me, 14 00:00:46.679 --> 00:00:51.479 Seattle answer? Yeah, the two Washington's question, I call this 15 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:55.240 one DC. Answer. Yeah, my chronology shows that a meeting 16 00:00:55.240 --> 00:00:58.679 took place in Washington State. Question. Who else was at 17 00:00:58.719 --> 00:01:01.159 the meeting? Answer? You know, I think this is a 18 00:01:01.240 --> 00:01:03.920 case where Epstein flew out to Seattle and came to 19 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:06.480 the Gates Venture's office, and so he would have seen 20 00:01:06.519 --> 00:01:09.400 both myself and Larry Cohen as part of his being 21 00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:11.680 out there. I don't know if doctor Nikolch was there 22 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:14.719 or not. Question, what do you recall about the meeting? 23 00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:18.239 What was discussed? Answer? I think the meeting was entirely 24 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:22.799 focused on the terms of doctor Nikolch's exit. Question and 25 00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:24.959 was this a meeting where mister Epstein was trying yet 26 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:28.719 again to get additional compensation for doctor Nikolch and you 27 00:01:28.799 --> 00:01:32.319 were refusing. Is that a fair generalization of it? Answer? 28 00:01:32.359 --> 00:01:35.319 That's the outcome. Yes, that he despite you know, sort 29 00:01:35.359 --> 00:01:38.359 of veiled things like saying we should remain friends. You know, 30 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:40.760 I had not asked him to be involved in these 31 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:44.159 exit negotiations, and so it was in the end kind 32 00:01:44.200 --> 00:01:48.959 of a worthless meeting. Specter. I'll introduce as majority exhibit 33 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:52.560 for this is an email chain. The first email, which 34 00:01:52.599 --> 00:01:55.439 is at the bottom passes out. The first email, which 35 00:01:55.480 --> 00:01:58.439 is at the bottom is from Friday, August ninth, twenty thirteen, 36 00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:02.519 at ten forty seven pm. The Bates number is EFTA 37 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:07.079 zero one nine five nine eight nine one. So that 38 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:09.919 first email at the bottom again is from Boris Nicolitch 39 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:15.159 to Bill Gates, care of Larry Kahn, subject Jeffrey, thank you. 40 00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:17.479 The message it's on the back side of the page 41 00:02:17.599 --> 00:02:20.400 that was passed out, It says, Bill, yesterday was a 42 00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:23.240 very difficult for both of us. It would be great 43 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:25.479 if you could write Jeffrey a thank you note, as 44 00:02:25.479 --> 00:02:27.199 he flew out here to try to help, and I 45 00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:30.280 think he did. I thanked him with my deepest gratitude. 46 00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:32.599 I know he saved me. I think he saved us 47 00:02:32.599 --> 00:02:38.360 both signed Boris, So giving your description of what happened, 48 00:02:38.439 --> 00:02:40.680 what do you make of that did mister Epstein save you? 49 00:02:40.759 --> 00:02:44.479 And Doctor Nikolch in some way answer he did not question. 50 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:47.800 What do you think Boris meant by this answer? I 51 00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:50.360 don't know. I think at some point Boris realized that 52 00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:53.800 introducing Epstein was a mistake. But you know, he had 53 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:56.199 asked me, when Epstein did get involved, to send an 54 00:02:56.199 --> 00:02:59.560 email to Epstein, which I did, and here then he 55 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:01.840 asked me to send an email to him, thanking him, 56 00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:06.800 which I went ahead and did. Specter question again, doctor 57 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:09.280 Nikolich says he flew out here to help, and I 58 00:03:09.319 --> 00:03:12.759 think he did. And your testimony today has sort of 59 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:16.879 been opposite, is that Jeffrey Epstein's involvement in these negotiations 60 00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:21.719 were useless and accomplished nothing. Answer. Yeah, it's completely provable 61 00:03:22.039 --> 00:03:24.759 because he offered to Boris is the same. What he 62 00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:27.599 ends up with is the same. So you know that's 63 00:03:27.719 --> 00:03:30.120 just black and white facts. Yeah, what did you give 64 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:34.599 him under the table? How about that question question? The 65 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:37.000 next email, so the middle email on the first page, 66 00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:40.400 you respond to doctor Nikeoluch with Larry Cohen again, you say, 67 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:43.159 I agree, Jeffrey was quite helpful and he put a 68 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:45.479 lot of time in. Without him, it would have been 69 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:47.400 a lot harder. I will send him a thank you. 70 00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:50.719 So it seems like you're saying something a little different 71 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:53.000 in this email than you're saying right now. Is that 72 00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:56.319 fair answer? I would I was willing to go along 73 00:03:56.319 --> 00:03:58.960 with the narrative that Jeffrey had been helpful. I wanted 74 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:01.719 to get the thing closed. You know, I had decided 75 00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:04.199 that doctor Nikolich should leave my employ He wanted to 76 00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:06.719 say that we made progress. I knew that the offer 77 00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:09.439 on the table. I wanted doctor Nikolitch to accept that. 78 00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:12.800 So I don't feel these comments were made in sincerity, 79 00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:15.879 but in the furtherance of hey, this is Boris's mindset. 80 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:18.680 Now he feels good. I think you should bring forward 81 00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:21.360 the other email that we referred to, because that would 82 00:04:21.399 --> 00:04:25.480 be and give very helpful context. Question so you said, 83 00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:29.079 though you did ultimately send mister Epstein to thank you. 84 00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:32.920 Answer as I was asked to do. Yes. Question, I'm 85 00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:34.959 trying not to flood you with more paper here, so 86 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:37.319 I'll just ask about it generally. Do you recall what 87 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:40.639 you what the nature of the thank you was? Answer? 88 00:04:40.680 --> 00:04:43.199 I said, thank you, I mean boris both at the 89 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:46.040 start of Epstein's involvement and at the end he asked 90 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:48.800 me to send an email which may have actually been 91 00:04:48.839 --> 00:04:52.639 my very first email to mister Epstein was the initiation 92 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:58.279 of his involvement in doctor Nikolich's exit. Question is this 93 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:00.439 the thank you email that you sent to mister Epstein. 94 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:03.759 You make reference to structuring the payment as a gift, 95 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:07.439 and you're discussing how you paid gifts taxes on it. 96 00:05:07.480 --> 00:05:09.680 Is it your recollection that the severance payment to doctor 97 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:13.759 Nikolch was structured as a gift. Answer? No, you're confusing 98 00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:18.879 something that's absolutely separate. Question Okay, answer no connection with 99 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:22.399 doctor Nikolich's exit. At the time that doctor Nikolitch came 100 00:05:22.439 --> 00:05:25.560 to work at the Gates Foundation, he had some ongoing 101 00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:29.040 consulting agreements so this is five years, six years earlier, 102 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:32.040 and I made at the time so that Boris could 103 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:34.480 walk away from those things without a net loss. I 104 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:36.839 made a half a million dollar gift to doctor Nickolitch, 105 00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:40.959 but that's like five years earlier before certainly before I 106 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:44.800 met Epstein, and I believe before doctor Nikolicch had met Epstein. 107 00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:47.680 The reason that that came up in the exit discussion 108 00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:50.600 was Epstein, having apparently heard about that payment from six 109 00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:53.160 years ago, tried to insert some doubt about how the 110 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:56.160 taxes hadn't been paid on that. And this was not 111 00:05:56.240 --> 00:05:58.240 the only time, but this is where he tried to 112 00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:00.879 insert himself as, hey, I could get give you tax advice, 113 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:04.040 why don't you send me the documents? And youano you 114 00:06:04.160 --> 00:06:07.360 probably should show me the email. Because I was very 115 00:06:07.399 --> 00:06:10.079 black and white that I'm the most careful about paying 116 00:06:10.120 --> 00:06:14.040 taxes of anyone I know. I have great professionals. I 117 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:16.759 wasn't going to send him any tax documents that was 118 00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:19.480 structured as a gift. I paid a gift tax and 119 00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:21.920 so we're talking about a half million. That's nothing to 120 00:06:21.959 --> 00:06:25.199 do with the exit agreement at all. Question. Okay, that's 121 00:06:25.199 --> 00:06:29.000 helpful context, and for the record, that is what you 122 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:30.879 say at the end of the email you say, I 123 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:33.600 will bet I am more careful about gift taxes than 124 00:06:33.639 --> 00:06:37.120 almost any other taxpayer. Answer. Yeah, I believe that in 125 00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:40.279 my fourteen billion of tax payments, I probably paid more 126 00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:44.839 gift taxes than others. Question more than me moran And 127 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:47.040 I'll just note that the same email ending in Bates 128 00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:49.759 number is zero five to three that we referenced earlier 129 00:06:50.279 --> 00:06:52.920 contains some of the same exchange about the tax treatment 130 00:06:53.120 --> 00:06:57.680 issue as well. Specter asking questions. Now, question, mister Gates, 131 00:06:57.879 --> 00:06:59.720 I want to talk a little bit about I know 132 00:06:59.839 --> 00:07:02.319 we've talked about it, and I'll try to be brief 133 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:04.920 and not go back over to many of the same things, 134 00:07:05.319 --> 00:07:08.720 but the three extra marital affairs that we've now discussed 135 00:07:08.720 --> 00:07:13.839 in today's interview. For the first one, also Mila Antonova, 136 00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:16.480 if that's all right with you, I can refer to 137 00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:18.439 her as the bridge player or I can call her 138 00:07:18.439 --> 00:07:22.480 miss Antonova. Answer. That's fine. Question I think you said earlier. 139 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:25.519 But do you recall when you first met her? Answer 140 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:28.519 at a bridge tournament. Question and where was the bridge 141 00:07:28.519 --> 00:07:31.800 tournament answer? I'm not sure question, and it was prior 142 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:35.759 to meeting Jeffrey Epstein answer yes. Question do you recall 143 00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:38.120 when you learned that miss Antonova had some sort of 144 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:41.759 interaction with mister Epstein. Answer? It would have been when 145 00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:44.439 he sent me email suggesting that he had reimbursed her 146 00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:47.680 or paid for something in connection in relationship to her. 147 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:50.480 Question and this was years a couple of years after 148 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:54.360 you seize communication with mister Epstein. Is that correct? Answer? No, 149 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:57.680 it's right at the end or soon after the end. No, 150 00:07:57.839 --> 00:07:59.680 I think it's right after the end that he sends 151 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:02.279 an email, and most of the email he sent me. 152 00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:05.199 Where after I never talked to him again because he 153 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:08.240 made many attempts to re engage. But he sent memel 154 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:11.680 about those reimbursements, and then I went to Larry Cohen, 155 00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:15.519 who communicated that I didn't feel it was appropriate or 156 00:08:15.560 --> 00:08:18.120 I was under any obligation to reimburse them for what 157 00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:21.839 he may have done. Question did anyone else who else 158 00:08:21.879 --> 00:08:25.079 may have known about your affair? About this affair? Answer? 159 00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:29.560 I don't know who. Question Boris Nikolitch, Jeffrey Epstein. Eventually 160 00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:32.919 you told your wife. Did anyone else during that period 161 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:36.960 intervening period know about it? As far as you know? Answer? 162 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:39.879 Not that I'm aware of maybe a therapist, but I 163 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.960 guess I can exclude my discussions with therapists. Question and 164 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:47.440 then the same sort of questions for Miss nig Mantalina, 165 00:08:47.759 --> 00:08:51.440 the nuclear physicist, as we discussed earlier. I think you've 166 00:08:51.480 --> 00:08:53.840 talked about this publicly. You said that you met her 167 00:08:53.919 --> 00:08:57.759 through business activities? Is that right? Answer? That is right? Question? 168 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:01.480 What sort of business activities? Answer? She worked on both 169 00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:04.720 disease modeling and nuclear fission work, and I met her 170 00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:08.120 in connection with that. Question work that the Gates Foundation 171 00:09:08.279 --> 00:09:11.799 was involved or overlap with her work? Answer? No, it's 172 00:09:11.799 --> 00:09:15.320 not Gate Foundation's work. It was worked that it was 173 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:19.120 either Terra Power work or work that I funded, not 174 00:09:19.159 --> 00:09:23.120 connected to the foundation. Question for the record, what is 175 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:27.720 Terra Power? Answer? Its nuclear fission fourth generation nuclear fission company. 176 00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:31.919 Question that you fund? Answer, I'm a substantial investor in 177 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:36.399 Tara Power. Question did Miss nig Matalina work directly for 178 00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:40.240 Terra Power at all? Answer? Yes. I'm a little confused 179 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:42.919 about when she worked on the disease modeling project and 180 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:45.480 when she did some work at for Tara Power. I 181 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.440 think they may have even overlapped. But after she finished 182 00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:51.879 both of those pieces of work, is when our affairs started. 183 00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:55.039 Question and do you recall approximately of the year that 184 00:09:55.080 --> 00:09:58.039 the affair started? Answer, I mean I can find out. 185 00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:02.600 Question was it prior to you meeting Jeffrey Epstein? Answer? No, 186 00:10:02.759 --> 00:10:05.759 I should look. The time I became aware he knew 187 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:08.799 about that affair was when Epstein files were releases here. 188 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:11.879 Question that's when you found out that mister Epstein was 189 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:15.120 aware of this affair, is what you're saying? Answer right, 190 00:10:15.639 --> 00:10:18.279 in those emails to himself among the true and false 191 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:20.440 things that he's stuck in there. In one of those 192 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:23.600 emails he mentions her name. Question but for the record, 193 00:10:23.960 --> 00:10:26.120 the way that you met her through the business activities, 194 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:28.879 it had nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein in any way. 195 00:10:29.480 --> 00:10:33.639 Answer nothing, not in any way. Question and you did 196 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:37.240 you ever have a conversation with miss nig Mantalina about 197 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:41.679 Jeffrey Epstein? Answer never. Question and then the same sort 198 00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:44.200 of questions for doctor Jacobs. You may have said, and 199 00:10:44.279 --> 00:10:47.639 I'm sorry, but can you remind me what you're approximately 200 00:10:47.679 --> 00:10:52.720 Your affair with her began? Answer before twenty ten? Question 201 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:56.879 so prior to you ever meeting Jeffrey Epstein. Answer that's right. Question, 202 00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:00.240 and so you had no awareness of any relationship or 203 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:05.720 any relationship between her and mister Epstein. Answer that's right question. 204 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:08.000 And do you have any awareness of her relationship with 205 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:12.080 mister Epstein as you sit here today? Answer I do 206 00:11:12.200 --> 00:11:16.399 not question. I'll ask the same questions for miss Antonova 207 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:19.480 sit here today. Do you have any additional context or 208 00:11:19.519 --> 00:11:23.240 awareness of her interactions with mister Epstein besides what we've 209 00:11:23.240 --> 00:11:26.000 talked about. Answer well, I read in the press several 210 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:28.879 years ago that she commented that she and mister Epstein 211 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:32.879 and that he had paid some expenses that she wasn't 212 00:11:32.919 --> 00:11:35.879 aware of was something that he was communicating back to me. 213 00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:39.759 Question So the only additional awareness you have about her 214 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:44.519 interactions with mister Epstein are through public reporting. Answer well, 215 00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:47.000 he sends me emails, you know, after I stopped meeting 216 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:49.399 with them. There's a bunch of emails where he's referring 217 00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:51.879 to her, even one time reporting that I had asked 218 00:11:51.960 --> 00:11:54.919 him to do these things, which is false. But there's 219 00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:57.240 a number of emails for him relating to the woman 220 00:11:57.399 --> 00:12:01.320 we're calling the bridge player. Question and I'll ask the 221 00:12:01.320 --> 00:12:04.200 same question for miss Nigma Talina. Do you have any 222 00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:08.159 other knowledge today about her interactions with or communications with 223 00:12:08.279 --> 00:12:12.320 Jeffrey Epstein. Answer, I'd be stunned if there wherever many. 224 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:16.039 So no, I don't question other than that you know 225 00:12:17.320 --> 00:12:19.720 that he was aware of your affair. Answer that's right, 226 00:12:19.960 --> 00:12:22.480 but that's not communication to her. All right, folks, we're 227 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:24.919 gonna wrap up right here, and in the next episode, 228 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:27.360 we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the 229 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:30.399 information that goes with this episode can be found in 230 00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:33.720 the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another 231 00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:38.320 episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna 232 00:12:38.360 --> 00:12:40.639 pick up where he left off with the Bill Gates 233 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:47.080 testimony to Congress. Question correct, Now, I want to talk 234 00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:49.559 a little bit more about this blackmail that I think 235 00:12:49.639 --> 00:12:53.240 you characterize these drafts, these emails Epstein sent to himself 236 00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:57.440 as potential blackmail. Answer as I see them today, that's, 237 00:12:57.519 --> 00:12:59.919 you know, my guess about what he might be thinking about. 238 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:02.600 Question do you think that he was hoping to take 239 00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:05.200 a cut of this proposed deal he was offering to 240 00:13:05.240 --> 00:13:08.399 doctor Nikolich? Answer? I'm not aware of that. He may have. 241 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:11.480 Question he never did he ever ask you for money 242 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:14.200 directly paid to him? Or was it always this discussion 243 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:17.519 of money for doctor Nicolich? Answer. He had one point, 244 00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:21.600 kind of a weird email says that I he purports 245 00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:25.159 that I said that I was in his debt, but 246 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:28.240 that he said I wasn't in his debt, And the 247 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:31.200 truth is I never said he was in debt. But 248 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:33.480 despite his saying that he didn't think that I was 249 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:35.480 in his debt, in that email, he seems to ask 250 00:13:35.559 --> 00:13:38.039 for donations to be made in his name to a 251 00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:41.360 variety of entities. So that's along the lines of, Hey, 252 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:44.639 I helped you out with this exit, and you owe me, 253 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:48.039 even though the email says you don't owe me. Question 254 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:50.000 did you ever make a donation to that entity in 255 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:53.080 Jeffrey Epstein's name for him? Answer never in his name? 256 00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:56.320 Question did you ever make a donation to any entity 257 00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:59.320 that he had asked you to donate to? Answer Yeah, 258 00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:01.799 there's an inner section of the list he sent me 259 00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:05.320 and an institution that I'd given to literally for decades 260 00:14:05.480 --> 00:14:08.679 through my work at Microsoft personally and through the foundation, 261 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:11.559 which is MIT. And I did make a two million 262 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:14.480 dollar donation to MIT. Well, I made it. We can 263 00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:17.759 get the date overlapping this period that I knew mister Epstein. 264 00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:20.720 Question was that donation related in any way to mister 265 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:24.639 Epstein or you saying it's happenstance since you had already 266 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:27.879 been donating to them. Answer, I'd say the timing was 267 00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:31.519 somewhat related. That is, I've given to MIT many times. 268 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:35.039 There's a building there, you know, there's some ongoing medical work, 269 00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:39.240 which is absolutely fantastic. But I gave a two million 270 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:42.639 dollar donation without you know, mentioning mister Epstein's name, you know, 271 00:14:42.759 --> 00:14:44.960 not related to any program that he was involved in, 272 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:48.720 And so that was the primary purpose was to help MIT. 273 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:52.480 As a secondary thing, I did tell mister Epstein about 274 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:55.200 the donation, hoping that it might factor into his no 275 00:14:55.279 --> 00:14:58.440 longer coming to me and asking for donations in his name, 276 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:01.120 which is something I'd been clear I was not going 277 00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:04.919 to do. Question. So, just to be clear, the donation 278 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:07.279 to MIT was not in response to any blackmail or 279 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:12.080 threats that mister Epstein had made. Answer. No, the primary 280 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:15.879 purpose was to get resources to MIT, who had always 281 00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:18.960 used my gifts in a very effective way. There was 282 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:21.759 a secondary thing that I told Epstein about and hoping 283 00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:23.519 that would bring an end to this weird set of 284 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:26.080 emails where he acted like I should make a donation 285 00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:30.120 in his name. Mister grant. And did MIT ever discuss 286 00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:35.720 Jeffrey Epstein with you at any point during the donation process? Gates, No, No, 287 00:15:36.039 --> 00:15:38.639 In fact, they did an investigation to make sure that 288 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:41.960 the donation was not Epstein related and found that it 289 00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:45.519 was not. Question And did they talk to you as 290 00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:49.840 part of the investigation? Answer? Yes, question by mister spector. 291 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:53.279 Question again. I'll try to avoid too much paper, But 292 00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:55.559 a representative for you in the media said that mister 293 00:15:55.639 --> 00:16:00.399 Gates met with Epstein solely for philanthropic purposes, Having failed 294 00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:03.519 to repeatedly to draw mister Gates beyond these matters, Epstein 295 00:16:03.799 --> 00:16:07.639 tried unsuccessfully at a leverage a pass relationship the threatened 296 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:11.360 mister Gates. So let's talk about that last part first. 297 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:15.559 He tried unsuccessfully at a leverage a pass relationship. Is 298 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:19.879 that the three affairs we've discussed or is it something else? Answer? 299 00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:23.480 Doctor Jacobs never came up with Epstein any way, shape 300 00:16:23.559 --> 00:16:26.679 or form, so it certainly doesn't refer to that. As 301 00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:29.320 I said during the exit period, there was never an 302 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:32.600 explicit hey, if you don't do something, I'll reveal this. 303 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:36.240 There was a veiled type of language, Hey, we should 304 00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:39.320 all want to be friends and as I've said, I 305 00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:42.320 took that on very explicitly and said, look, if you 306 00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:44.000 think you're going to get more money out of this, 307 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:46.559 it's not going to happen. And if that means you 308 00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:49.039 go out and talk to people about things, I will 309 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:51.360 just bear the pain of that and deal with it. 310 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:55.279 And so I was. I was not blackmailed. But you know, 311 00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:57.159 as you look at the emails, you know, it looks 312 00:16:57.159 --> 00:17:01.679 like mister Epstein brainstorming, and he was going in that direction. Question, 313 00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:04.079 and just to be clear, the past relationship that he 314 00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:07.559 unsuccessfully tried to leverage. What that refers to is the 315 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:10.640 thinly veiled threats we've already discussed over the course of 316 00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:13.960 today's interview answer relative to the bridge player and the 317 00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:17.359 nuclear well. At the time, I mean, I wasn't sure 318 00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:19.680 what it referred to, but I had to assume that 319 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:22.119 there was some chance that the two affairs that Boris 320 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:26.799 was aware of had communication. Mister Epstein question, and just 321 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:30.480 to clarify also the beginning part of that statement, mister 322 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:34.920 Gates met with Epstein solely for philanthropic purposes. As we've 323 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:37.960 discussed today, you also met with mister Epstein with regard 324 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:40.960 to the dispute with the negotiation with doctor Nikolitch, Is 325 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:43.960 that right answer? Yeah? And there were dinners where a 326 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:47.079 philanthropic thing would have come up, but wouldn't have necessarily 327 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:50.039 you know, when Jess Daily or Larry Summers was there, 328 00:17:50.200 --> 00:17:52.440 these n people that I'm meeting for the first time, 329 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:57.000 we would discuss other topics. So the primary topic of 330 00:17:57.039 --> 00:17:59.680 the times I spent with mister Epstein were my attempt 331 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:02.960 to raise billions for global health. There were other things, 332 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:06.599 including doctor Nikolitch's exit, you know, when he comes out 333 00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:09.240 in August. I doubt we discussed global health at that meeting. 334 00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:12.920 I think that was solely focused on this exit question. 335 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:15.079 And just to be clear, the statement says that you 336 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:19.519 solely met with mister Epstein for philanthropic purposes, So that's 337 00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:24.559 not true then, right answer, I it's the correct summary 338 00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:26.759 would be to say that the primary reason that I 339 00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:29.759 met with him, you know, so if a report is oversimplified, 340 00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:33.599 that's a mistake. Question. And again you've said that you 341 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:35.960 were not blackmailt and I think maybe what you mean 342 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:38.759 is you were not successfully black melt. But it seems 343 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:42.160 like mister Epstein was trying to really hard to blackmail you. Answer. 344 00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:44.839 If those emails that contained some truth and some false 345 00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:47.640 things were ever sent, then we could say that there 346 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:50.079 was an attempt to blackmail that never happened. You know, 347 00:18:50.200 --> 00:18:52.680 I don't know if doctor Nikolich ever saw those, but 348 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:56.279 I certainly never saw those. Those would have been then 349 00:18:56.319 --> 00:18:58.799 it would have been hard or been black and white 350 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:02.000 that that's what they're were attempting to do. What actually 351 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:04.839 happened is that they made veiled references that because of that, 352 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:08.160 you know, I explicitly raised the idea that they're disclosing 353 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:10.839 whatever they knew about me, that I would deal with that, 354 00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:13.359 and I was going to raise the offer because of 355 00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:17.839 my concerns about what might be behind those veiled references question. 356 00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:20.000 And I think that's correct when you look back at 357 00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:22.599 majority Exhibit one and in the emails that are open 358 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:26.079 discussions between mister Epstein and Nicolch about you, you know, 359 00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:28.880 in an email they might send to you again that 360 00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:33.599 they ultimately did not. It's more thinly veiled. It only references, 361 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:37.160 as we discussed earlier, sensitive information and a dilemma of 362 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:41.640 trust and these thinly veiled threats. Is that kind of 363 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:44.799 what you're talking about? That sort of language answer, I 364 00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:47.079 think you're referring to an email that I'm not copied on. 365 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:52.359 Question You are not copied on the email? That's correct. Answer, Yeah, moron, 366 00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:55.480 is that the type of statement gets cut off by Gates. 367 00:19:55.880 --> 00:19:59.960 That is the type of statement that Epstein made. Specter, Okay, 368 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:03.319 they go off the record, they come back on question. 369 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.920 Good afternoon, mister Gates answer, good afternoon. Question. When we 370 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:10.759 left during our last round together, we were proceeding through 371 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:14.079 the chronology of your meetings with mister Epstein. I'd like 372 00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:17.000 to continue doing that if I could, But first just 373 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:20.119 step back in time to twenty eleven, and this would 374 00:20:20.119 --> 00:20:22.680 be your first meeting with mister Epstein at his home. 375 00:20:23.079 --> 00:20:26.839 In January of twenty eleven, it was reported in Forbes 376 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:30.000 magazine that after visiting Epstein for the first time, you 377 00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:33.000 told colleagues in an email the next day that Epstein 378 00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:36.640 and I, quoting from the article lifestyle is very different 379 00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:39.480 and kind of intriguing, although it not worked for me. 380 00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:44.319 Do you recall telling colleagues that after your initial visit Answer, yeah, 381 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:47.079 I sent an email to one person saying that question. 382 00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:51.200 Who was that person? Answer? Doctor Walker, question and what 383 00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:54.920 did you mean by different and intriguing? Answer, Well, as 384 00:20:54.920 --> 00:20:57.480 you said, that was the first time I'd ever met Epstein, 385 00:20:57.759 --> 00:20:59.680 and during that dinner meeting, he'd refer to a lot 386 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:02.640 of side scis and economists that would spend time talking 387 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:05.079 to him. You know, I never followed up to see, 388 00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:08.359 you know, particularly given what I know about his credibility. 389 00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:11.000 Now which of those were real and we're not real? 390 00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:13.680 But you know, my first impression was that he took 391 00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:17.400 time being kind of different, a lot of different science 392 00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:20.559 and economic areas, and you know, I pick particular areas 393 00:21:20.599 --> 00:21:24.279 to focus in software while I was at Microsoft and 394 00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:27.720 global health and education at the Foundation, and so yes, 395 00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:30.400 I made the remark that it was what I'd heard 396 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:34.480 from him was intriguing but not for me. Question. I 397 00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:38.119 appreciate that. And then stepping ahead in time again back 398 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:41.559 to twenty fourteen, just generally, do you have any recollection 399 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:44.079 of the meetings that you had with Jeffrey Epstein during 400 00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:47.559 that year? Answer? I know the last two. If we 401 00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:51.400