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<v Speaker 1>Christmas is a time for joy giving and togetherness, but

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<v Speaker 1>today we're diving into a chilling story that casts a

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<v Speaker 1>dark shadow over the season. One of Canada's most prolific

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<v Speaker 1>serial killers who prayed on Toronto's LGBTQ plus community. This

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<v Speaker 1>is the case of Bruce MacArthur, a man who played

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<v Speaker 1>sants at the Mall while hiding an unfathomable secret.

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<v Speaker 2>My name's Nicole, my name's Ben. And you're listening to

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<v Speaker 2>Wicked and Grim.

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<v Speaker 1>A true crime podcast listener question.

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<v Speaker 3>That it's Christmas Eve.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure is Sann is coming to town.

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<v Speaker 1>Officially, Sanna is coming to town.

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<v Speaker 2>And as soon as the clock strikes noon today, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to start drinking for the next forty eight hours. Really,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe maybe not.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't yet to hear this, but okay, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Want to have I want to have mimosas all day tomorrow,

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<v Speaker 2>in the morning, at least probably into the after well

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<v Speaker 2>into the afternoon. And when the clock strikes noon today,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to be having an eggnog and I'm probably

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<v Speaker 2>going to be having another eggnog.

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<v Speaker 1>After that to get some more eggnog. We don't have enough.

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<v Speaker 1>You said we had enough, but I don't think we

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<v Speaker 1>do now.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, well I'll go out and get.

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<v Speaker 1>Some later then we're gonna have to stop.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I'll go out and get some before I have

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<v Speaker 2>my first eggnog, Just just to make sure we're staying

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<v Speaker 2>safe on the roads today.

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<v Speaker 1>There you go, oh every day, right, don't drink and

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<v Speaker 1>drive obviously, of course, but yeah, anyway, Merry Christmas, Happy holidays,

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<v Speaker 1>you know all that jazz.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I hope you guys are having a good one.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know what, if it's not that good, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>you know what, it doesn't always end up being the

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<v Speaker 2>best of seasons for everybody. Try and relax, try and breathe.

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<v Speaker 2>We were talking over on our Patreon about trying to

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<v Speaker 2>slow things down. Maybe just take things in, get yourself

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<v Speaker 2>a drink, whether it's a hydrating drink, a glass of water,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe it's a coffee, whatever, take some time for yourself,

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<v Speaker 2>which you need to do, slow things down, just breathe.

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<v Speaker 1>Even just five minutes, and maybe even like turn off

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<v Speaker 1>their Christmas tunes because that shit's depressing. Yes, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know what it is, but like, okay, there's been times

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<v Speaker 1>like my mom passed away before Christmas at one year,

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<v Speaker 1>and I could like not even listen to Christmas music,

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<v Speaker 1>but this year is like I was trying, I'm like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what, I'm gonna like listen to this a bit,

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<v Speaker 1>and like it just does even if you're in a

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<v Speaker 1>fine mindset, I feel like it makes you sad. And

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know why that is.

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<v Speaker 2>Is Yeah, I don't know, there's something. There's something about

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<v Speaker 2>Christmas music that to me just doesn't fit today's society.

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<v Speaker 1>That well, you know, yeah, I don't know. We ended

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<v Speaker 1>up putting on Christmas chill hop and that was That

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<v Speaker 1>was a good jam.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. To those who go on YouTube and listen to

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<v Speaker 2>like some low fied chill hop radio stuff, yeah, that's

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<v Speaker 2>that's our jam. When we listened like Christmas low fied

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<v Speaker 2>chill hop, that's yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And that was good. That was good.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't feel like I need to just go in

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<v Speaker 1>the bathroom and cry for five minutes.

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<v Speaker 2>Understandable. Understandable. But we don't want to take up too

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<v Speaker 2>much of your time today. I mean, you have probably

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<v Speaker 2>a lot to do, so we shouldn't be chatting too much.

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<v Speaker 2>But so before we move on, I do want to

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<v Speaker 2>make sure we thank our patrons who signed up this week,

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<v Speaker 2>so thank you, and shout out to Amanda Cahill, Claire

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<v Speaker 2>Nankolis and and Amanda Lynn Tom Awesome, thank you very much.

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<v Speaker 2>We appreciate you guys signing up.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no, we really do. We always do.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And we were just doing the over in our

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<v Speaker 2>little Patreon pre show, and you guys are getting a

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<v Speaker 2>double header on New Year's Eve because you're getting, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>the regular episode that's going to be coming out on

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<v Speaker 2>a Tuesday, which is New Year's Eve, and then the

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<v Speaker 2>exclusive episode that comes out at the end of every month. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so you're getting a double header and that library is

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<v Speaker 2>built up pretty good now at this point.

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<v Speaker 1>Can't go wrong there, can.

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<v Speaker 2>You definitely not? Definitely not.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, we have like a semi Christmasy themed case,

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<v Speaker 1>if you will, today, and that's the case of Bruce.

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<v Speaker 2>MacArthur, which was picked out by our patrons.

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<v Speaker 1>It was actually I should mention that. So yeah, let's

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<v Speaker 1>dive into the store without wasting any time, shall we.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's do it. Let's hear it.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So we're heading to Ontario in the nineteen fifties

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<v Speaker 1>to a little rural town called Lindsey. That's where Thomas Donald,

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<v Speaker 1>Bruce MacArthur, or we're going to refer to him as

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<v Speaker 1>Bruce was born, so on October eighth, nineteen fifty one.

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<v Speaker 1>He was born to parents and Ilt MacArthur. The family

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<v Speaker 1>didn't stay in Lindsay, but they stayed in the general

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<v Speaker 1>area of the Cowerthee Lakes and lived the farm life.

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<v Speaker 2>The farm life, Okay, love it. I'm also just wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to point out really quick that I'm loving the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that you are doing this case.

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<v Speaker 1>It's I know you're different, but I like you, just

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<v Speaker 1>like you relaxed over there and you just like settled in.

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<v Speaker 1>I like saw it of it from like my perferal

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<v Speaker 1>vision there.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like you should be on the couch with

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<v Speaker 2>a for the blanket, you know, I'll wrap myself up

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<v Speaker 2>snuggling in sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, buckle up, I guess. And I should just say, like,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean a lot of these these areas I'm saying

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<v Speaker 1>are not like super well known. So for reference, it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's the area outside Toronto, gotcha. Most people know probably

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<v Speaker 1>where Toronto is.

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<v Speaker 2>I just recently did a case that was just north

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<v Speaker 2>of Toronto. Oh okay, wasn't I'm pretty sure was Toronto? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was well.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, there's a lot of little outside areas of

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<v Speaker 1>big cities like that, right, So Bruce grew up with

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<v Speaker 1>one biological sister and a rotating cast of foster children

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<v Speaker 1>as their parents opened up their home and took in

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<v Speaker 1>children needing a home from Toronto, and sometimes they would

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<v Speaker 1>have like as many as ten extra kids at a

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<v Speaker 1>time they were fostering. Wow, which I mean, there's such

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<v Speaker 1>a need for that. So that's awesome.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, good for them. That's just a very busy home.

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<v Speaker 1>It is. That's a lot of kiddos. The household was

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<v Speaker 1>also very religious, but interesting enough, each parent had a

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<v Speaker 1>different faith and like you, I don't feel like you

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<v Speaker 1>don't superhear that a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Bruce's mother was Irish Catholic and his father was Scottish Presbyterian,

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<v Speaker 1>and so Bruce supported his mother, which of course added

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<v Speaker 1>to any religious tension the family may have already faced.

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<v Speaker 2>I just want to say propts to them, because not

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<v Speaker 2>very often can you have like cohesiveness between like religions

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<v Speaker 2>in the same house.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I feel like that'd be very hard. I mean

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<v Speaker 1>I've heard it before. Were like one parent's religious and

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<v Speaker 1>maybe the other isn't but like to both be of

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<v Speaker 1>different faith and stuff. That's very unique.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Usually when a relationship starts like that, there's someone

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<v Speaker 2>who goes into the other religion, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so wow. So another rift between Bruce and his

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<v Speaker 1>father may have been his father sensing Bruce's sexual orientation.

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<v Speaker 1>So from a young age, Bruce realized something about himself,

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<v Speaker 1>and that was that he wasn't into girls. This also

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<v Speaker 1>caused him not to fit in with the other boys

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<v Speaker 1>in his school. So, like many others in this you know,

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<v Speaker 1>tight culture of the nineteen sixties, and like in a

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<v Speaker 1>small town of Ontario, Bruce played along. In high school,

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<v Speaker 1>he started dating a girl named Janice Campbell, probably more

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<v Speaker 1>to convince himself than anyone else. He continued to repress

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<v Speaker 1>his sexual feelings, and Bruce and Janice eventually tied the

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<v Speaker 1>knot when Bruce was twenty three years old and they

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<v Speaker 1>had two kids, a boy and a girl. Bruce initially

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<v Speaker 1>worked as a buyer's assistant for Eaton's. Do you remember Eaton's? Like,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, we weren't alive, I don't think, but like,

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<v Speaker 1>I do you recognize that name? It was like an

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<v Speaker 1>apartment store.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it sounds familiar.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So he worked there and this later led to

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<v Speaker 1>a travel a job, traveling as a salesman for McGregor Socks,

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<v Speaker 1>and his family moved to Oshawa. I think that's how

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<v Speaker 1>he us Oshauwa.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So by day he was on the road working

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<v Speaker 1>retail gigs in Toronto and Oshawa, and by the weekend

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<v Speaker 1>he was a regular at church, playing the devoted husband

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<v Speaker 1>and father. But sometime in the early nineteen nineties, that

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<v Speaker 1>facade started to crack, as you know, I feel like

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<v Speaker 1>that's expected that it would.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're wow, like hiding your true self for that long.

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<v Speaker 2>I know, I think that would wear on you.

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<v Speaker 1>I know, I feel like that'd be very hard. And

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<v Speaker 1>so Bruce came out to his wife Janie, admitting that

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<v Speaker 1>he was gay and he had actually been sexually involved

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<v Speaker 1>with men, so he was cheating, which is also terrible. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>most likely something his traveling salesman position kind of gave him,

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<v Speaker 1>like the freedom an opportunity to do right. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>it couldn't have been easy for her, but the couple

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<v Speaker 1>initially decided to stay together. I'm kind of assuming for

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<v Speaker 1>the kids and maybe like the sense of stability, but

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<v Speaker 1>this too was short lived once the couple faced some

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<v Speaker 1>financial difficulties, with Bruce losing his job and their son

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<v Speaker 1>actually went about finding himself in some legal trouble. I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't dive into the super a lot. But he was

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<v Speaker 1>making lewde phone calls apparently to women, whatever the hell

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<v Speaker 1>that means.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so he's probably, like.

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<v Speaker 1>I think he was, like maybe it's kind of sounded

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<v Speaker 1>like maybe borderline harassing in a sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he was probably doing like almost a Peeping Tom

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<v Speaker 2>situation sort of thing, without the peeping more of like

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<v Speaker 2>just the calling, like the same women over and over,

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<v Speaker 2>and like maybe the the heavy breathing, maybe the like

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<v Speaker 2>I'm dodging myself.

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<v Speaker 1>Or who knows, I don't know. He had too much

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<v Speaker 1>free time apparently on his hands.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, So I gave myself the creeps with that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I kind of just notice. I just moved on it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah I did.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh god.

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<v Speaker 1>So in nineteen ninety seven, the Maarthur's officially separated, and

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen ninety nine they had filed for bankruptcy. So,

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<v Speaker 1>at forty six years old, Bruce packed his bags for

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<v Speaker 1>a fresh start in Toronto to live the life that

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<v Speaker 1>he desired, but ultimately This wasn't the kind of fresh

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<v Speaker 1>start that anyone would have hoped for.

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<v Speaker 2>Done done, done.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. After years of hiding who he was, he embraced

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<v Speaker 1>his identity and became a regular fixture in Toronto's LGBTQ

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<v Speaker 1>plus community. He was out proud and he didn't have

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<v Speaker 1>to live lie anymore, which you know is probably a

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<v Speaker 1>pretty awesome feeling.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no one should, but no. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>He was hanging out in gay neighborhoods like Church and Wellesley,

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<v Speaker 1>which I think is usually referred to as the village,

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<v Speaker 1>soaking up the scene and really immersing himself in the community.

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<v Speaker 1>But all the good things must come to an end.

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<v Speaker 1>Bruce had his ups and downs. He was in a

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<v Speaker 1>long term relationship. I believe it was like about four years,

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<v Speaker 1>so that's like a decent chunk of time. But it

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<v Speaker 1>didn't last, and as most breakups do, it hit him hard.

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<v Speaker 1>He started going to therapy where he was prescribed antidepressants.

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<v Speaker 1>Around the same time, he decided to launch a landscaping

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<v Speaker 1>business called Artistic Design, And apparently he kind of attracted

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<v Speaker 1>like wealthy little old ladies because they felt he was

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<v Speaker 1>he was a bit charming. Okay, he had that charm

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<v Speaker 1>to him. On the surface, it seemed like he was

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<v Speaker 1>rebuilding his life. Business was picking up, he was meeting

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<v Speaker 1>new people, and he had a knack for creating stunning

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<v Speaker 1>flower beds and lush gardens. But even as Bruce planted

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<v Speaker 1>seas and nurtured gardens, something darker was growing beneath the surface.

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<v Speaker 1>Not everyone in the LGBTQ community felt the same warmth

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<v Speaker 1>he radiated to clients. Bruce had gained a bit of

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<v Speaker 1>a reputation of being obsessive, controlling, and for engaging in

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<v Speaker 1>rough sex and fetish play.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, gotcha, So.

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<v Speaker 1>That was kind of like going around town, I guess, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so he I mean, honestly, it's not surprising when

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<v Speaker 2>you suppress yourself for that long and then you're finally

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<v Speaker 2>like free.

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<v Speaker 1>Like I ever thought of it like that actually, but yeah, well,

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<v Speaker 1>like think of.

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<v Speaker 2>It in this regard when you get the classic the dog,

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<v Speaker 2>when the gates left open and they just go right.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the same sort of situation, Like he's been repressing,

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<v Speaker 2>repress saying, and now he can actually be himself and

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<v Speaker 2>now he's like in overindulging it, yeah, like overdoing it.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, I never I never thought like, even with

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<v Speaker 1>all my research and reading about that, I never put

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<v Speaker 1>that together for somebody that makes a lot of sense.

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<v Speaker 2>It does.

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<v Speaker 1>It does. So some people mentioned you would maybe think

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<v Speaker 1>twice about getting too close with Bruce. And as those

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<v Speaker 1>concerns were rising, so were the number of disappearing men

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<v Speaker 1>from the village. They were disappearing without a trace, and

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<v Speaker 1>no one could figure out what was going on. For years,

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<v Speaker 1>it was a mystery, and sadly, for years the police

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<v Speaker 1>did not connect the dots. So the story of Bruce

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<v Speaker 1>MacArthur's victims began with and I'm just gonna say I

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<v Speaker 1>apologize ahead of time. There was some like some names

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<v Speaker 1>in here that are a little bit hard to pronounce.

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<v Speaker 1>But I'm going to try my best here.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Okay, we got you. We're going to back you

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<v Speaker 2>up on something. I support you.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, the first victim here that we're talking about

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<v Speaker 1>is Scandalage and we're going to go buy Scanda Navarantum.

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<v Speaker 1>He was a kind and vibrant man who had come

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<v Speaker 1>to Canada from Sri Lanka in the early nineteen nineties

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<v Speaker 1>as a refugee. So scandal was building a life for himself.

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<v Speaker 1>He studied at the University of Toronto and later worked

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<v Speaker 1>at Ryerson University. By the summer of twenty ten, he

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<v Speaker 1>seemed happy. He recently got a puppy and was absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>smitten with it, constantly sharing photos and bringing the dog

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<v Speaker 1>everywhere he went, which I just love puppies and dogs

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00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:42.399
<v Speaker 1>just bring like the just joy in life.

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<v Speaker 2>We would get along with this man.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, and I feel like too, if you're like lonely

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00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:50.200
<v Speaker 1>or starting out like that's just so perfect just to

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00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:52.679
<v Speaker 1>have this like companion, because it's so nice to come

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<v Speaker 1>home to, you know, energy, rather than just like a

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<v Speaker 1>quiet dark house, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, someone who's there to greet you and they're happy

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<v Speaker 2>to see you no matter what.

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<v Speaker 1>Totally yeah. So when Scanda disappeared in September twenty ten,

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<v Speaker 1>leaving behind this puppy that he loved, it was a

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<v Speaker 1>massive red flag because you know, normally when you have

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00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:20.519
<v Speaker 1>a dog, you set up a scenario for someone to

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00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:23.799
<v Speaker 1>come check on it or board it or whatever. Scanda

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<v Speaker 1>was officially reported missing on September sixteen, twenty ten, but

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<v Speaker 1>the last confirmed sighting of him was earlier that month.

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<v Speaker 1>In the early hours of September sixth, he was seen

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<v Speaker 1>leaving a Toronto nightclub called Zippers with two unidentified men.

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00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:43.399
<v Speaker 1>His friends and family were worried sick, but when they

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00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:46.639
<v Speaker 1>reached out to police, their concerns didn't get the attention

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00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:51.480
<v Speaker 1>they deserved. The police were informed about Scanda's occasional alcohol

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<v Speaker 1>and drug use, which may have influenced how serious they

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00:15:55.399 --> 00:16:00.200
<v Speaker 1>took his case. To complicate matters, some family members thought

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00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:04.519
<v Speaker 1>he might have gone into hiding because of unresolved immigration issues.

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00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:08.840
<v Speaker 1>Despite all the speculation, there was no real leads. His

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00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:12.720
<v Speaker 1>friends and family knew something was wrong. Scanda wouldn't just

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00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:17.759
<v Speaker 1>vanish without a trace. Even his laptop, which police eventually seized,

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00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:22.120
<v Speaker 1>sat unexamined for years with no evidence of foul play.

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00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:25.720
<v Speaker 1>The investigation stalled almost as quickly as it had begun.

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00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:29.720
<v Speaker 1>The authorities moved on, but his loved ones did not.

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00:16:31.159 --> 00:16:33.799
<v Speaker 2>Dang, do we know what happened to his dog?

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00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:34.919
<v Speaker 3>No?

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00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:39.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't. Oh, okay, I don't. Hopefully, Yeah, I know.

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00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:42.879
<v Speaker 1>I'm like almost, I feel like I can't, Like you'd

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00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:44.799
<v Speaker 1>almost could guess, but who knows.

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<v Speaker 2>I hope the dog's okay, Yeah, going to put that

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00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:50.720
<v Speaker 2>out there, or it was okay, I guess at the time.

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00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:56.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So then came another disappearance on December twenty nine

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<v Speaker 1>to twenty ten. And this is where are we here?

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00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:08.839
<v Speaker 1>Bazier Phasey vanished under eerily similar circumstances. So Basier, like Scanda,

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00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:11.519
<v Speaker 1>had come to Canada in search of a better life.

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00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:16.319
<v Speaker 1>Originally from Afghanistan, he had immigrated in nineteen ninety nine

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00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:19.839
<v Speaker 1>and was working as a machine operator. He was married

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00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:22.680
<v Speaker 1>with children and appeared to be a devoted family man.

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00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:26.839
<v Speaker 1>What Besier's family didn't know was that he was gay,

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00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:31.079
<v Speaker 1>a secret that caused him immerse like immense stress. The

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00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:34.200
<v Speaker 1>night Besier went missing, he told his wife he was

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00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:37.839
<v Speaker 1>meeting a friend instead. He was last seen around eleven

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00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:41.440
<v Speaker 1>PM at Steam Works, which is a gay sauna in Toronto.

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<v Speaker 1>His wife and cousin called repeatedly trying to reach him,

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00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:50.279
<v Speaker 1>and when they couldn't, he was reported missing the following day.

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00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:54.880
<v Speaker 1>A few days later, on January four, twenty eleven, Bassier's

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00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:59.079
<v Speaker 1>car was found abandoned on Moore Avenue, about ten minutes

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<v Speaker 1>from the sauna, and the location made no sense to

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00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:04.640
<v Speaker 1>his family. They insisted he had no reason to be

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00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:08.480
<v Speaker 1>in that area, and once again the case went cold.

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<v Speaker 1>There were no clear leads and with you know, his

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00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:16.920
<v Speaker 1>sexuality not being known to his family, important details about

333
00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:21.880
<v Speaker 1>his life and where he spent time remained hidden. Gotcha, Okay, yeah,

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00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:24.480
<v Speaker 1>so there you're going to see a theme here.

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00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:27.799
<v Speaker 2>I kind of already am, but I mean, yeah, as

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00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:29.920
<v Speaker 2>more as you talk about more, I have a feeling

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00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:31.160
<v Speaker 2>that theme is going to carry on.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So this is a couple of years later to

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00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:39.799
<v Speaker 1>about two years or so. On October twenty five, twenty twelve,

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00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:44.440
<v Speaker 1>Majeet Hamid Kahan and he go like, we're going to

341
00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:49.359
<v Speaker 1>go by Hamid here was reported missing. So Hamid, like

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00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:52.759
<v Speaker 1>this year, was originally from Afghanistan. He had been married

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00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:55.799
<v Speaker 1>with two kids, but he was secretly gay, a truth

344
00:18:55.880 --> 00:18:58.880
<v Speaker 1>he struggled with even after his divorce and a move

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<v Speaker 1>into Toronto's LGBTQ Plus district. Despite living in the heart

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00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:06.839
<v Speaker 1>of the gay community, he still found it difficult to

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00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:11.480
<v Speaker 1>fully embrace his identity. The last converm sighting of Hamid

348
00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:15.440
<v Speaker 1>was on October fourteenth, twenty twelve, when he visited his son.

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00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:20.119
<v Speaker 1>After that, there was nothing, no phone calls, no sightings,

350
00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:23.960
<v Speaker 1>just silence. When police went to check his home, there

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00:19:23.960 --> 00:19:26.759
<v Speaker 1>were no obvious signs of foul play, but one detail

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00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:30.000
<v Speaker 1>stood out and that was that Hamid had pet birds

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00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:34.200
<v Speaker 1>and they were dead. Oh no, this was completely out

354
00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:39.000
<v Speaker 1>of character. He was very meticulous with their care and

355
00:19:39.079 --> 00:19:41.160
<v Speaker 1>if he ever had to leave town, he always asked

356
00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:43.519
<v Speaker 1>a friend to look after them. This was a clear

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00:19:43.559 --> 00:19:48.440
<v Speaker 1>indication that something was seriously wrong. So at this point

358
00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:52.680
<v Speaker 1>there was three men missing from Toronto's LGBTQ plus community.

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00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:56.720
<v Speaker 1>You'd think this would raise some alarms, and maybe it did,

360
00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:00.440
<v Speaker 1>but there was a disconnect between the disappearances, with no

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00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:03.039
<v Speaker 1>one really seeing the bigger picture.

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00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:05.480
<v Speaker 2>Here, gotcha. Okay, so everyone's just kind of like, oh,

363
00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:08.680
<v Speaker 2>they're all just individual cases, not really drawing them together totally,

364
00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:11.519
<v Speaker 2>assuming that these people kind of had like secretive lives,

365
00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:14.119
<v Speaker 2>maybe are into drug use, and who knows what they're

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00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:16.960
<v Speaker 2>off doing. They probably went off on their own free will. Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, And with some of them too, like being immigrants,

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00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:24.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't I can't remember if if it was those three.

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00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:26.400
<v Speaker 1>We do talk about it at some point with especially

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<v Speaker 1>with one victim, but like they some of them, you know,

371
00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:34.559
<v Speaker 1>were facing potential like deportation or something. So then even

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00:20:34.599 --> 00:20:38.119
<v Speaker 1>if they were missing, like friends and family you know,

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00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:41.039
<v Speaker 1>didn't want to like draw attention to them. Either gotcha, Yeah,

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00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:43.400
<v Speaker 1>which is just it's so fucking.

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<v Speaker 2>Sad, no kidding.

376
00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:49.799
<v Speaker 1>So police did go about launching Project Houston. So this

377
00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:54.839
<v Speaker 1>was a task force put together to initially investigate just

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00:20:54.920 --> 00:20:58.640
<v Speaker 1>one of the missing men, and that was Scanda, the investigator.

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00:20:58.759 --> 00:21:02.359
<v Speaker 1>The investigation was launched after a man posted on the

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00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:06.440
<v Speaker 1>cannibal web forum Zambian meat. I'd have no idea if

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00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:09.079
<v Speaker 1>that fucking still exists. I thought about googling it and

382
00:21:09.079 --> 00:21:12.680
<v Speaker 1>then I was like, fuck, this.

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00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:16.400
<v Speaker 2>Understandable because I'm was like not, I don't want to

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00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:17.079
<v Speaker 2>deal with that shit.

385
00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:20.640
<v Speaker 1>So a man posted on this that he had killed

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00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:24.279
<v Speaker 1>and eaten a man in Toronto, so it was believed

387
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:27.799
<v Speaker 1>that Scanda was murdered by one of the so called members.

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00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:31.559
<v Speaker 1>It was actually a man named James Bruton, dismembered and

389
00:21:31.599 --> 00:21:36.559
<v Speaker 1>then consumed, which is just all a bit odd. Toronto

390
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:42.559
<v Speaker 1>police eventually concluded James's claim was just fantasy. But the

391
00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:46.119
<v Speaker 1>investigation did in the end serve a purpose, and that

392
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:50.960
<v Speaker 1>was that it linked the three missing men's cases. So

393
00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:54.079
<v Speaker 1>there was something good that came about this, which you know,

394
00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:56.559
<v Speaker 1>and I think I didn't really dive into it because

395
00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:58.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure this James Broughton is like a whole nother

396
00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:02.200
<v Speaker 1>fucking case on its own. I don't think he was

397
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:05.400
<v Speaker 1>like the best of people. But in this scenario, it

398
00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:08.440
<v Speaker 1>was found that he did not like eat this man.

399
00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so this was not factual, at least not with

400
00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:12.319
<v Speaker 2>this person.

401
00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:16.359
<v Speaker 1>No, because he was part of this forum forum and

402
00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:19.319
<v Speaker 1>he did talk about like eating people, but it was

403
00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:21.559
<v Speaker 1>just like a fantasy thing, I guess for him. But

404
00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:23.759
<v Speaker 1>then there was also speculation that he might be like

405
00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:27.400
<v Speaker 1>a pedophile too, and all that Jazz still not a

406
00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:28.000
<v Speaker 1>great person.

407
00:22:28.119 --> 00:22:30.240
<v Speaker 2>He's a grand kind of individual, isn't he.

408
00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.559
<v Speaker 1>Could you imagine, just like I don't know, going on

409
00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:37.039
<v Speaker 1>a form and fantasizing talking about eating people like it.

410
00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:39.599
<v Speaker 1>It's even interesting that something like that exists out there.

411
00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:42.440
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, hey, I mean it's the Internet.

412
00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:46.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, everything exists out there, right yep. So by January

413
00:22:46.759 --> 00:22:51.359
<v Speaker 1>twenty thirteen, during the ongoing investigation, police came across an

414
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:54.720
<v Speaker 1>email address, and this was silver Fox fifty one at

415
00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:56.240
<v Speaker 1>hotmail dot com.

416
00:22:56.279 --> 00:22:56.759
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

417
00:22:57.400 --> 00:22:59.119
<v Speaker 1>They had no idea at the time that it would

418
00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:02.680
<v Speaker 1>eventually lead them to Bruce. For now, it was just

419
00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:06.440
<v Speaker 1>another small piece and a very complicated puzzle. The idea

420
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:09.000
<v Speaker 1>of a serial killer on the loose seemed to be

421
00:23:09.079 --> 00:23:11.440
<v Speaker 1>too far fetched. They didn't really want to believe that.

422
00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:16.839
<v Speaker 1>In November twenty thirteen, Bruce was actually interviewed by police

423
00:23:17.240 --> 00:23:20.599
<v Speaker 1>and connected to two of the missing men, but they

424
00:23:20.599 --> 00:23:23.400
<v Speaker 1>didn't dig too deep, and maybe they would have if

425
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:27.039
<v Speaker 1>they were aware of a violent incident Bruce had in

426
00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:30.559
<v Speaker 1>twenty eleven where he received a year of house arrest

427
00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:35.200
<v Speaker 1>followed by three years of probation. So this was an

428
00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:40.400
<v Speaker 1>incident involving Mark Henderson. He was an actor, model and

429
00:23:40.599 --> 00:23:45.599
<v Speaker 1>nursing student, and Bruce ended up following Mark into his apartment.

430
00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:49.480
<v Speaker 1>It's unclear how well these two knew each other, if

431
00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:53.480
<v Speaker 1>at all, but it was very clear that he wasn't

432
00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:56.240
<v Speaker 1>a guest of Marx or anything. Some reports kind of

433
00:23:56.240 --> 00:24:00.119
<v Speaker 1>said Mark let him into his apartment. Some said they

434
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:02.720
<v Speaker 1>they did know each other better. I don't know, but anyway,

435
00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:07.759
<v Speaker 1>like he wasn't a welcome guess. So without warning, Bruce

436
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:12.359
<v Speaker 1>attacked Mark from behind, clubbing him with an iron pipe

437
00:24:12.759 --> 00:24:15.759
<v Speaker 1>out like just like basically like went the fuck to town,

438
00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:20.440
<v Speaker 1>which is crazy. Mark, thankfully, you know, realized it was

439
00:24:20.519 --> 00:24:22.640
<v Speaker 1>like do or die here, and so he fought for

440
00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:25.759
<v Speaker 1>his life and was able to fight Bruce off, But

441
00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:28.920
<v Speaker 1>when he later reported the incident to police, the police

442
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:33.319
<v Speaker 1>allegedly made light of the crime, which is so weird.

443
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:36.200
<v Speaker 1>They made jokes at the scene and like neglected to

444
00:24:36.279 --> 00:24:37.359
<v Speaker 1>take a witness statement.

445
00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:38.480
<v Speaker 2>What the fuck?

446
00:24:39.400 --> 00:24:42.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because he was he was quite injured, Like it

447
00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:45.599
<v Speaker 1>wasn't just like a little bit of an injury here,

448
00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:50.319
<v Speaker 1>this is just me making an acquisition. But Mark at

449
00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:55.079
<v Speaker 1>the time was in the escort market. So maybe because

450
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:58.000
<v Speaker 1>of this, they weren't taking him seriously, which I'm not

451
00:24:58.039 --> 00:25:04.279
<v Speaker 1>saying is right by no means, but maybe because he was,

452
00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:07.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, a sex worker of sorts, they just kind

453
00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:10.759
<v Speaker 1>of felt that sort of thing happened. I don't know, Well,

454
00:25:10.839 --> 00:25:11.759
<v Speaker 1>there is that.

455
00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:19.079
<v Speaker 2>Stigma around police treating sex workers that way. Yeah, so yeah,

456
00:25:19.079 --> 00:25:20.640
<v Speaker 2>I can see what you're saying. It may not be

457
00:25:20.680 --> 00:25:24.079
<v Speaker 2>surprising that that it actually occurred, because hey, that stigma,

458
00:25:24.319 --> 00:25:25.519
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it comes from somewhere.

459
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:28.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. It's too bad too, because Mark even he has

460
00:25:28.519 --> 00:25:31.680
<v Speaker 1>come out, come like out and talked about this incident,

461
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:35.319
<v Speaker 1>and like like I said at the beginning, he was

462
00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:39.240
<v Speaker 1>in most cases kind of introduced as just being a

463
00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:41.279
<v Speaker 1>sex worker, but he was also like a model, and

464
00:25:41.319 --> 00:25:44.480
<v Speaker 1>he was like a nursing student and stuff too, right,

465
00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:46.000
<v Speaker 1>so there was like more to him than that.

466
00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:52.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that anchors me. Yeah, but Devil's advocate. Potentially they're

467
00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:56.519
<v Speaker 2>introducing him as a sex worker because authorities are assuming

468
00:25:56.559 --> 00:25:59.359
<v Speaker 2>the sex work is what initiated the crime. Yeah, so

469
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:02.519
<v Speaker 2>maybe that's why they're referring to him as a sex worker,

470
00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:05.680
<v Speaker 2>because that's what links him to this initially. But yeah,

471
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:07.319
<v Speaker 2>still not good.

472
00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:11.240
<v Speaker 1>Not okay. Bruce did end up turning himself in for

473
00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:14.400
<v Speaker 1>this crime, though, claiming he had blacked out and couldn't

474
00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:18.200
<v Speaker 1>remember anything about the attack the attack, also pleading guilty

475
00:26:18.279 --> 00:26:18.799
<v Speaker 1>in court.

476
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:20.759
<v Speaker 2>Then how the fuck did he turn himself in if

477
00:26:20.759 --> 00:26:21.839
<v Speaker 2>he didn't remember anything about it?

478
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:23.799
<v Speaker 1>I know, I didn't really get that either.

479
00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:25.319
<v Speaker 2>It's like I was the one who did that, but

480
00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:27.359
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember doing it. What the fuck?

481
00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:31.960
<v Speaker 1>So he did go about receiving fairly light conditions, and

482
00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:35.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm assuming is because he, you know, like didn't remember

483
00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:38.799
<v Speaker 1>what the hell happened and actually turned himself in. It

484
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:42.680
<v Speaker 1>was also along with psychiatric reports that suggested Bruce was

485
00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:45.319
<v Speaker 1>unlikely to commit any further crimes.

486
00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:50.160
<v Speaker 2>I have a feeling that is some very wrong information

487
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:52.240
<v Speaker 2>shadowing some shits we.

488
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:54.640
<v Speaker 1>Already know because this was prior to those.

489
00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:57.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh I see missing, gotcha? Gotcha?

490
00:26:57.799 --> 00:27:00.640
<v Speaker 1>Okay, well they're just missing at this point, I guess, right,

491
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:02.000
<v Speaker 1>So he's late.

492
00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:05.079
<v Speaker 2>So hold on, those three are missing currently?

493
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:09.720
<v Speaker 1>Yes, okay, because member they started this Project Houston. Yes,

494
00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:15.599
<v Speaker 1>Bruce came up, but they didn't know about and I'm

495
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:17.079
<v Speaker 1>going to talk about this here in a minute, they

496
00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:21.440
<v Speaker 1>didn't know about his past criminal like these this attack

497
00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:25.680
<v Speaker 1>because Bruce's criminal record was allowed to be wiped clean.

498
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:29.759
<v Speaker 1>Oh shit, yeah, so like it wasn't it wasn't known

499
00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:32.119
<v Speaker 1>that he had had this incident prior to him being

500
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:35.680
<v Speaker 1>interviewed with in regard to these street missing men. Oh fuck,

501
00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:41.680
<v Speaker 1>okay yeah wow. So so by April twenty fourteen, Project

502
00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:46.240
<v Speaker 1>Houston was it was done, the case with the cases

503
00:27:46.279 --> 00:27:50.400
<v Speaker 1>were left unsolved, and any momentum from the investigation just

504
00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:53.359
<v Speaker 1>kind of like fizzled out. So and then, yeah, here's

505
00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:56.039
<v Speaker 1>where I say, Bruce's criminal record, you know, it was

506
00:27:56.039 --> 00:27:58.480
<v Speaker 1>allowed to be wipe clean, so his past arrest didn't

507
00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:01.920
<v Speaker 1>show up anymore, and one checking his background wouldn't see

508
00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:03.240
<v Speaker 1>his history of violence.

509
00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:03.759
<v Speaker 2>Shit.

510
00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:09.759
<v Speaker 1>So in August twenty fifteen, another man would go missing,

511
00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:15.000
<v Speaker 1>Charuche Mamoodi, a forty nine year old originally from Iran.

512
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:19.039
<v Speaker 1>Charuche was married and had a step son. On the

513
00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:22.480
<v Speaker 1>day he disappeared, he left for work but never came home.

514
00:28:23.319 --> 00:28:27.200
<v Speaker 1>His disappearance, however, didn't raise raise any alarms. He wasn't

515
00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:30.880
<v Speaker 1>part of the Toronto LGBTQ plus community and he wasn't

516
00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:33.640
<v Speaker 1>seen in the village, so his case wasn't connected to

517
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:37.160
<v Speaker 1>the earlier missing men for quite some time. For now,

518
00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:42.240
<v Speaker 1>it was just another unexplained disappearance. Meanwhile, Bruce found himself

519
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:45.799
<v Speaker 1>yet again at the police station in June twenty sixteen

520
00:28:46.119 --> 00:28:50.519
<v Speaker 1>for another alarming incident. A man came forward reporting that

521
00:28:50.599 --> 00:28:54.079
<v Speaker 1>Bruce had nearly choked him to death during a hookup

522
00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:57.640
<v Speaker 1>in the back of Bruce's van. According to the victim,

523
00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:02.440
<v Speaker 1>the encounter started consensually, but took a terrifying turn when

524
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:06.279
<v Speaker 1>Bruce became violent and started choking him. The man barely

525
00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:11.839
<v Speaker 1>managed to escape and ran straight to police. Bruce, in response,

526
00:29:12.519 --> 00:29:16.079
<v Speaker 1>again did go about turning himself in. He admitted to

527
00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:19.599
<v Speaker 1>the hookup, but claimed that the choking was consensual. According

528
00:29:19.640 --> 00:29:21.759
<v Speaker 1>to Bruce, the man had asked him to do it,

529
00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:25.319
<v Speaker 1>but then freaked out for some reason. And here's the

530
00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:28.640
<v Speaker 1>shocking part though, is that the police believed him. Oh,

531
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:32.160
<v Speaker 1>they chalked it up to, you know, a consensual encounter

532
00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:35.640
<v Speaker 1>that had gone wrong and let him go. And once again,

533
00:29:35.680 --> 00:29:40.880
<v Speaker 1>Bruce was, you know, walking free, walking free. I think

534
00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:44.200
<v Speaker 1>it's almost it's interesting that he goes about turning himself in.

535
00:29:44.440 --> 00:29:48.279
<v Speaker 1>It is that's almost because it shows that he's having

536
00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:52.440
<v Speaker 1>like remorse, you know, like it's it seems very strategic

537
00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:52.720
<v Speaker 1>to me.

538
00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:54.079
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if it's remorse.

539
00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:58.440
<v Speaker 1>I think it shows that he has remorse to the

540
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:00.799
<v Speaker 1>police and to people, I think, but doesn't I'm not

541
00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:02.599
<v Speaker 1>necessarily he has it.

542
00:30:02.599 --> 00:30:08.599
<v Speaker 2>It shows Okay, yeah, it's showing pretend remorse potentially, Yeah,

543
00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:12.079
<v Speaker 2>it's portraying remorse. There we go. It's portraying remorse. It's

544
00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:14.720
<v Speaker 2>not showing remorse. But yeah, I think what he's trying

545
00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:17.000
<v Speaker 2>to do is he's trying to say one step ahead.

546
00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:20.960
<v Speaker 2>He's like, Okay, if someone reports me, I'm gonna do

547
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:24.000
<v Speaker 2>them better and I'm gonna report myself and then I

548
00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:27.200
<v Speaker 2>can play victim. And then it's like then you know,

549
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:28.279
<v Speaker 2>it can be brushed off.

550
00:30:28.519 --> 00:30:31.480
<v Speaker 1>Rather it's only his story versus the others, like who

551
00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:33.319
<v Speaker 1>you know, who are they going to necessarily believe?

552
00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:36.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, rather than someone being like reporting you and then

553
00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:38.400
<v Speaker 2>you run and you hide, that shows.

554
00:30:38.119 --> 00:30:40.880
<v Speaker 1>Guilt, right, Yeah, yeah it does.

555
00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:42.599
<v Speaker 2>So if he's all like, oh, you know I was

556
00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:44.480
<v Speaker 2>involved in this, you know, I can't believe it went

557
00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:46.799
<v Speaker 2>this bad. You know, I really just expecting it, like

558
00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:49.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, you play the victim cards sort of thing, right,

559
00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:52.400
<v Speaker 2>And so yeah, I think he's what he's doing is

560
00:30:52.519 --> 00:30:56.519
<v Speaker 2>he's not remorseful, like you say. It portrays remorseful, but

561
00:30:56.680 --> 00:31:00.440
<v Speaker 2>he's more so just yeah, trying to to stay ahead

562
00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:02.839
<v Speaker 2>of looking guilty.

563
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:06.400
<v Speaker 1>There's actually an interview out there where he's talking to

564
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:10.000
<v Speaker 1>police about this this incident, and it's just like so awkward,

565
00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:13.400
<v Speaker 1>Like it's just so I don't know, so awkward the

566
00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:17.440
<v Speaker 1>stuff he's talking about and like the rough sex and stuff.

567
00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:19.480
<v Speaker 1>And I'm just like, oh my god, what am I

568
00:31:19.640 --> 00:31:22.920
<v Speaker 1>watching here? Like it was just a moment where I was,

569
00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:25.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, I would never want to be sitting there

570
00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:28.799
<v Speaker 1>and because the police are just like okay, you know,

571
00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:31.200
<v Speaker 1>like I don't know if I could just be listening

572
00:31:31.240 --> 00:31:34.200
<v Speaker 1>to this this guy talk about like this rough sex

573
00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:36.839
<v Speaker 1>and all this shit and just be like okay, with

574
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:39.559
<v Speaker 1>like no facial reaction whatsoever.

575
00:31:39.880 --> 00:31:42.039
<v Speaker 2>Well, you just talked about it, and then you did

576
00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:42.960
<v Speaker 2>just have no reaction.

577
00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:48.960
<v Speaker 1>You went Okay, inside I'm just like losing my shit.

578
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:51.640
<v Speaker 1>So I don't know, it would be really hard, gotcha.

579
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:53.839
<v Speaker 2>Well I think you'd be able to do it though.

580
00:31:54.119 --> 00:31:58.759
<v Speaker 2>You just did do it, so there you go, see see, But.

581
00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:00.680
<v Speaker 1>Then to have to carry on and think about your

582
00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:03.960
<v Speaker 1>next sentence and then again he's talking about you know,

583
00:32:04.039 --> 00:32:06.920
<v Speaker 1>the rough sex. Okay, Like I don't know, it's just

584
00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:08.000
<v Speaker 1>so fucking hard.

585
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:11.599
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, you're about to carry on to your next sentence. Now,

586
00:32:11.839 --> 00:32:12.640
<v Speaker 2>see you can.

587
00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:16.680
<v Speaker 1>Do this shit, Oh I guess so. In April twenty seventeen,

588
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:22.799
<v Speaker 1>Slim Espen was reported missing by his ex husband so Slim,

589
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:26.160
<v Speaker 1>originally from Turkey, had struggled to adjust to life in

590
00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:30.400
<v Speaker 1>Canada after divorcing his husband. He turned to substance abuse

591
00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:33.160
<v Speaker 1>for a time, but things were looking up for him.

592
00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:38.359
<v Speaker 1>Just before his disappearance, they seemingly out of nowhere, just

593
00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:41.960
<v Speaker 1>like vanished. He was last seen in the village. Yet,

594
00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:46.319
<v Speaker 1>like the others, his disappearance wasn't initially initially linked to

595
00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:50.160
<v Speaker 1>Project Houston or the earlier cases, which you know is

596
00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:53.599
<v Speaker 1>an ongoing thing here. Just two months later, in June

597
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:57.839
<v Speaker 1>twenty seventeen, another man disappeared, and this time it thankfully

598
00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:03.200
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't go unnoticed as the others had. Andrew Kinsman was

599
00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:07.640
<v Speaker 1>last seen on June twenty eighth, twenty seventeen. Andrew was

600
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:10.640
<v Speaker 1>a beloved figure in Toronto's Gate community, and he was

601
00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:14.799
<v Speaker 1>deeply involved in h HIV and AIDS networks and foundations.

602
00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:18.319
<v Speaker 1>He was known as a kind, generous person who dedicated

603
00:33:18.359 --> 00:33:23.079
<v Speaker 1>himself to helping others and supporting his community. When police

604
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:28.279
<v Speaker 1>search Andrew's apartment, they found several red flags. His beloved cat,

605
00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:32.079
<v Speaker 1>who he doted on, had been left without food and water,

606
00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:34.960
<v Speaker 1>which was a clear sign that Andrew had not planned

607
00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:38.599
<v Speaker 1>to leave. But the biggest clue was on the calendar

608
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:41.839
<v Speaker 1>in his apartment, written on June twenty six, two days

609
00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:44.920
<v Speaker 1>before his disappearance, was a single word, and that was bruce,

610
00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:49.640
<v Speaker 1>along with three PM. So now with the disappearance of

611
00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:54.279
<v Speaker 1>another middle aged man from the village, the obvious question

612
00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:58.839
<v Speaker 1>was could Andrew's case be connected? So they're finally certain

613
00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:01.200
<v Speaker 1>to be like, holy shit, like what's going on? And

614
00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:04.200
<v Speaker 1>I think it was because Andrew he kind of he

615
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:07.079
<v Speaker 1>was he would be really missed too, right, like people

616
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:12.280
<v Speaker 1>would like notice that his presence wasn't there. So police

617
00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:18.679
<v Speaker 1>wasted no time investigating. They scoured CCTV footage and managed

618
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:23.280
<v Speaker 1>to find a crucial clip. Andrew was seen getting into

619
00:34:23.320 --> 00:34:26.800
<v Speaker 1>a red Dodge Caravan at exactly three pm, the time

620
00:34:26.840 --> 00:34:29.880
<v Speaker 1>written on his calendar. So here they have a vehicle.

621
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:34.159
<v Speaker 1>They just were unable to make out the license plate. However,

622
00:34:34.519 --> 00:34:38.880
<v Speaker 1>the specific Dodge Caravan model ended up being a unique addition,

623
00:34:39.559 --> 00:34:42.480
<v Speaker 1>and when they searched the model and the name Bruce,

624
00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:46.440
<v Speaker 1>only one man popped up, and that was Bruce MacArthur.

625
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:51.679
<v Speaker 1>And now the police had Toronto's most prolific serial killer

626
00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:53.280
<v Speaker 1>in their crosshair.

627
00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:55.360
<v Speaker 2>Yes, fuck this guy.

628
00:34:55.719 --> 00:34:58.400
<v Speaker 1>I know, fuck this guy for sure, like he sucks.

629
00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:01.519
<v Speaker 2>And I don't mean that like the with the gay

630
00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:04.159
<v Speaker 2>stuff right now, I'm talking like, fuck him, you know.

631
00:35:04.360 --> 00:35:05.320
<v Speaker 1>With the rough section.

632
00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, not that, that's not what I'm referring to. I mean,

633
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:11.119
<v Speaker 2>in your own time whatever, but not with this.

634
00:35:11.239 --> 00:35:16.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm glad. They clarified that the discovery led to the

635
00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:19.360
<v Speaker 1>launch of a new task force. You know, people like

636
00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:20.360
<v Speaker 1>their task force.

637
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:22.920
<v Speaker 2>I feel like, yeah, we do like the A team right,

638
00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:24.880
<v Speaker 2>Guardians of the Galaxy.

639
00:35:25.239 --> 00:35:30.239
<v Speaker 1>August twenty seventeen, it was called Project Prism. The police

640
00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:34.119
<v Speaker 1>had linked five missing men together, the original three from

641
00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:39.159
<v Speaker 1>Project Houston, so there was Scanda, Basir and Hamid plus

642
00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:44.840
<v Speaker 1>now Andrew and Salim as police piercings together. Bruce obviously

643
00:35:44.920 --> 00:35:49.280
<v Speaker 1>became a major person of interest. Investigators learned he had

644
00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:53.599
<v Speaker 1>been interviewed four years earlier during Project Houston and had

645
00:35:53.679 --> 00:35:56.960
<v Speaker 1>no connections to some of the missing men. They also

646
00:35:57.079 --> 00:36:01.639
<v Speaker 1>uncovered the twenty sixteen choking incident, where he'd been reported

647
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:05.519
<v Speaker 1>for nearly strangling a man during a hookup, but wasn't charged.

648
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:09.840
<v Speaker 1>It was all starting to paint a very disturbing picture.

649
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:14.320
<v Speaker 1>Bruce was placed under twenty four to seven surveillance and

650
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:17.320
<v Speaker 1>investigators kept a close eye on him as he moved

651
00:36:17.320 --> 00:36:20.960
<v Speaker 1>in and out of his apartment at ninety five Thorncliffe

652
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:25.920
<v Speaker 1>Park Drive. They also collected his DNA and obtained a

653
00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:31.199
<v Speaker 1>warrant to seize his red Dodge Caravan. Unfortunately, by the

654
00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:34.840
<v Speaker 1>time they acted, Bruce I think was like, you know,

655
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:37.519
<v Speaker 1>a ware that he might have been under fire and

656
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:40.199
<v Speaker 1>he had gotten rid of the vehicle shit or so

657
00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:45.440
<v Speaker 1>he thought. In October twenty seventeen, investigators found the van

658
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:49.840
<v Speaker 1>and conducted a forensic search. What they uncombed was chilling.

659
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:53.760
<v Speaker 1>The DNA of four different men was present inside the vehicle.

660
00:36:54.119 --> 00:36:56.840
<v Speaker 1>One sample was of course, belonging to Bruce, but another

661
00:36:56.920 --> 00:37:02.239
<v Speaker 1>to Andrew, and two more from unknown individuals. As police

662
00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:06.920
<v Speaker 1>tailed Bruce, they observed him snapping photos of men in public,

663
00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:11.800
<v Speaker 1>often like without their knowledge. This is a real kicker.

664
00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:15.039
<v Speaker 1>They followed him to malls where he worked as a

665
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:18.840
<v Speaker 1>mall santa, which you know, yeah, we kind of chatted about,

666
00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:19.920
<v Speaker 1>like what the fuck.

667
00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:21.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we knew that one was coming.

668
00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:24.920
<v Speaker 1>This is where I don't think criminal records should be

669
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:28.000
<v Speaker 1>like fully able to be Is the word pardoned? I

670
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:30.519
<v Speaker 1>don't know, because when it comes to working with kids,

671
00:37:31.400 --> 00:37:34.079
<v Speaker 1>if you've ever had like a criminal record and it's

672
00:37:34.119 --> 00:37:37.159
<v Speaker 1>been pardoned, like, I don't think. I just don't. I

673
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:39.519
<v Speaker 1>don't like this man should not be a mall santa

674
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:43.000
<v Speaker 1>for god's sakes. Yeah that's not okay.

675
00:37:43.039 --> 00:37:46.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah I don't. I yeah, I agree. I do believe

676
00:37:46.519 --> 00:37:50.119
<v Speaker 2>there should be like very special circumstances where like yeah, okay,

677
00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:54.159
<v Speaker 2>maybe your your criminal record is erased, but that's like

678
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:58.840
<v Speaker 2>should be like a federal legislation that's really kept tight knit,

679
00:37:58.960 --> 00:38:00.320
<v Speaker 2>and it's like you have to go through you' a

680
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:04.480
<v Speaker 2>major fucking thing to have that like erase like tenfold

681
00:38:04.519 --> 00:38:05.559
<v Speaker 2>on what it already is.

682
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:09.880
<v Speaker 1>And probably for something more minor than like bashing someone's

683
00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:10.920
<v Speaker 1>head in Yeah.

684
00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:14.519
<v Speaker 2>Right. I feel like it's like, okay, like maybe you

685
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:17.639
<v Speaker 2>did do something bad, you got a criminal record, and

686
00:38:17.639 --> 00:38:19.400
<v Speaker 2>then you go to war and you like save your

687
00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:23.599
<v Speaker 2>fucking country and then say, okay, you know what, We're

688
00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:25.239
<v Speaker 2>going to go with this process and get you a

689
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:28.440
<v Speaker 2>fucking new life because you deserve it exactly. Like those

690
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:30.760
<v Speaker 2>are the situations where I think, maybe, yeah, okay, it

691
00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:33.239
<v Speaker 2>could be wiped, not just for some dude who's like, eh,

692
00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:35.239
<v Speaker 2>you know what, sure, why not?

693
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:37.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? I don't want this record, so like let's get

694
00:38:37.639 --> 00:38:41.840
<v Speaker 1>rid of it. By this point, the evidence was overwhelming.

695
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:45.000
<v Speaker 1>The DNA, the photos, the connections to the missing men.

696
00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:48.760
<v Speaker 1>It all pointed to one conclusion, and police finally said

697
00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:52.719
<v Speaker 1>what everyone had been dreading. We have a serial killer.

698
00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:57.360
<v Speaker 1>The next step was to search Bruce's apartment and digital devices,

699
00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:01.599
<v Speaker 1>so on January eighteen, twenty eight teen, the police were

700
00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:05.079
<v Speaker 1>ready to take down Bruce once and for all. Armed

701
00:39:05.079 --> 00:39:08.480
<v Speaker 1>with a warrant, they busted into his apartment and what

702
00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:12.079
<v Speaker 1>they found was straight out of a nightmare. First, if

703
00:39:12.199 --> 00:39:15.639
<v Speaker 1>the evidence wasn't enough, Bruce had had a man he'd

704
00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:19.719
<v Speaker 1>met through a gay dating website handcuffed to his bed,

705
00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:22.199
<v Speaker 1>thankfully still alive.

706
00:39:22.840 --> 00:39:24.920
<v Speaker 2>I mention that man was terrified.

707
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:27.320
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, it's from I mean, there isn't a shit

708
00:39:27.400 --> 00:39:31.800
<v Speaker 1>ton of information out there, but he was like planning

709
00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:34.280
<v Speaker 1>to kill him, so wow.

710
00:39:34.119 --> 00:39:36.119
<v Speaker 2>Because yeah, I mean, he could have been handcuffed to

711
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:38.920
<v Speaker 2>the bed and like really happy, or he also could

712
00:39:38.920 --> 00:39:41.719
<v Speaker 2>have been handcuffed to the bed and really terrified. One

713
00:39:41.719 --> 00:39:42.079
<v Speaker 2>of those two.

714
00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:44.679
<v Speaker 1>And I think it was one. See I couldn't find

715
00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:47.480
<v Speaker 1>a shit a shit ton on it, but one source

716
00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:50.719
<v Speaker 1>did say the guy had like a plastic bag on

717
00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:53.880
<v Speaker 1>his face and Bruce was like in the process of

718
00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:57.280
<v Speaker 1>going about like you know, cutting off his airflow and shit.

719
00:39:57.400 --> 00:39:58.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, so I don't know if they were

720
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:01.199
<v Speaker 1>still in like the funds age of shit or if

721
00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:04.840
<v Speaker 1>it's like gone past that, but anyway, it was that's

722
00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:07.159
<v Speaker 1>like a scene from a movie. Really, someone's you know,

723
00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:11.280
<v Speaker 1>basically kind of on their deathbed and the police bargin

724
00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:13.480
<v Speaker 1>and like they're saved. That's kind of it's good.

725
00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:16.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm pretty sure that it's like every episode of CSI

726
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:20.079
<v Speaker 2>you know, actually actually yes.

727
00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:25.039
<v Speaker 1>As they searched, they found more deeply disturbing evidence. On

728
00:40:25.480 --> 00:40:29.840
<v Speaker 1>Bruce's laptop, they discovered over a hundred photographs of Andrew,

729
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:33.320
<v Speaker 1>as well as pictures of many other men. Among them

730
00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:37.000
<v Speaker 1>were images taken in Bruce's bedroom. On a USB. They

731
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:41.360
<v Speaker 1>discovered nine folders, each labeled with the name or in

732
00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:46.719
<v Speaker 1>some cases, a description of one of the victims. And

733
00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:50.039
<v Speaker 1>we have talked about not or no, I think we've

734
00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:53.440
<v Speaker 1>only talked about six individuals. But of one of those

735
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:57.199
<v Speaker 1>folders was the man that was like handcuffed to the bed.

736
00:40:57.440 --> 00:41:00.960
<v Speaker 1>He had photos in there of him like alive. Oh shit,

737
00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:03.119
<v Speaker 1>So you know that there was going to be added

738
00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:09.719
<v Speaker 1>because inside we're photographs of victims, often taken after death

739
00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:14.320
<v Speaker 1>and post So after killing his victims, Bruce would pose

740
00:41:14.599 --> 00:41:18.119
<v Speaker 1>their naked corpses for photos, sometimes dressing them in like

741
00:41:18.159 --> 00:41:21.440
<v Speaker 1>for coats and hats and placing cigars in their mouths.

742
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:26.639
<v Speaker 2>Placing cigars in their mouths. Yeah, that's an interesting detail.

743
00:41:27.159 --> 00:41:29.400
<v Speaker 1>So I don't know if that that got got him

744
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:33.960
<v Speaker 1>going or what I mean there's a whole lot there

745
00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:38.679
<v Speaker 1>because he's probably he's posing them for his own his

746
00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:41.480
<v Speaker 1>When you're posing someone like that, it is for yourself.

747
00:41:42.559 --> 00:41:46.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And then with these photos and I mean memories

748
00:41:46.599 --> 00:41:48.960
<v Speaker 2>as well to go with it. I mean, that's that's

749
00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:51.119
<v Speaker 2>the definition of a spank bank right there.

750
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:54.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Oh, it's like my my upper body is so

751
00:41:55.039 --> 00:41:57.840
<v Speaker 1>tight right now because the skuy just like pisses me off.

752
00:41:57.880 --> 00:41:59.920
<v Speaker 1>He gives the creek it's uncomfortable.

753
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, I wholeheartedly understand, but yeah, that's that's like walking

754
00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:06.360
<v Speaker 2>the line of like that necrophilia.

755
00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:09.559
<v Speaker 1>Right, oh, one hundred percent. Yeah, But as far as

756
00:42:09.559 --> 00:42:11.920
<v Speaker 1>I know, he wasn't. I mean, but who the hell

757
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:14.480
<v Speaker 1>knows what the hell he was doing right afterwards. But

758
00:42:14.599 --> 00:42:18.159
<v Speaker 1>as far as we know, he wasn't necessarily having I

759
00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:22.119
<v Speaker 1>just quotated like you could see that intercourse with the disease.

760
00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:25.159
<v Speaker 2>It's very possible he could have because I mean, how

761
00:42:25.599 --> 00:42:29.199
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure there is going to be some signs and

762
00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:33.360
<v Speaker 2>things that investigators can find in forensics. But if he's

763
00:42:33.639 --> 00:42:36.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, having relations with these individuals and then killing them,

764
00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:40.199
<v Speaker 2>what's to say that like he can't have relations again?

765
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:43.599
<v Speaker 2>And then because it was pre and post Yeah, that

766
00:42:43.599 --> 00:42:45.199
<v Speaker 2>the signs are like mixed and you can't tell.

767
00:42:45.639 --> 00:42:47.760
<v Speaker 1>I know, I'm sure that I'm sure he did some

768
00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:50.639
<v Speaker 1>indacent things that you know, no one will really ever know.

769
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:53.679
<v Speaker 2>I do imagine that they're I do want to clarify.

770
00:42:53.719 --> 00:42:56.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure there are signs post mortem rather than pre

771
00:42:56.719 --> 00:42:59.320
<v Speaker 2>but it would be much harder to determine, you know.

772
00:42:59.679 --> 00:43:04.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. In some of the images, the victims were also

773
00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:08.360
<v Speaker 1>photographed naked with ropes tightly tied around their necks. It

774
00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:11.719
<v Speaker 1>soon became clear that this was the murder weapon. Bruce

775
00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:15.199
<v Speaker 1>had used a metal bar with rope attached to strangle

776
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:19.519
<v Speaker 1>his victims. So he was twist the bar, oh to

777
00:43:19.639 --> 00:43:23.719
<v Speaker 1>tighten Oh the knots. I guess, like I don't just

778
00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:26.079
<v Speaker 1>even visualizing that his horride.

779
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:27.760
<v Speaker 2>So he like wraps the rope around their neck and

780
00:43:27.800 --> 00:43:28.199
<v Speaker 2>the hand.

781
00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:29.400
<v Speaker 1>Then twists the bar.

782
00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:32.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it just slowly tightens more.

783
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:35.480
<v Speaker 1>I don't even know how you would go about, you know,

784
00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:36.880
<v Speaker 1>getting yourself really out of that.

785
00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:39.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh you fucked. Yeah, he's got too much leverage. You

786
00:43:39.519 --> 00:43:40.000
<v Speaker 2>can't do it.

787
00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:46.320
<v Speaker 1>Oh, okay, Bruce, all right, Yeah, we're just gonna move

788
00:43:46.360 --> 00:43:49.320
<v Speaker 1>on from that, because that is just thinking about that

789
00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:54.960
<v Speaker 1>way of death is something Bruce had meticulously documented his crimes,

790
00:43:55.039 --> 00:43:59.559
<v Speaker 1>keeping gruesome trophies in digital form. Police also discovered that

791
00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:03.519
<v Speaker 1>Bruce cap a journal where he detailed some of his killings.

792
00:44:04.039 --> 00:44:06.039
<v Speaker 1>So he wasn't really hot. He was hiding shit, but

793
00:44:06.079 --> 00:44:07.239
<v Speaker 1>he wasn't hiding shit in his home.

794
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:11.000
<v Speaker 2>I guess how not how to get caught one on one.

795
00:44:11.239 --> 00:44:14.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he was arrested on the spot, charged with first

796
00:44:14.760 --> 00:44:19.320
<v Speaker 1>degree murder and hauled off in handcuffs. With Bruce and custody.

797
00:44:19.360 --> 00:44:23.400
<v Speaker 1>Police turned their attention to his landscaping business and one

798
00:44:23.480 --> 00:44:27.760
<v Speaker 1>particular property in the Lee Side neighborhood of Toronto where

799
00:44:27.880 --> 00:44:30.880
<v Speaker 1>he had a deal. He you know, stored equipment there

800
00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:34.559
<v Speaker 1>because they had space in return for him doing some

801
00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:38.679
<v Speaker 1>yard work. So good averdogs were brought in and lead

802
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:44.039
<v Speaker 1>investor or led investigators storry to large planter boxes among

803
00:44:44.199 --> 00:44:46.679
<v Speaker 1>the property. Inside.

804
00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:51.159
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's where yeah, yeah, I know where this is going.

805
00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:58.119
<v Speaker 1>Oh God. Inside inside they found several sets of human remains.

806
00:44:58.800 --> 00:45:02.239
<v Speaker 1>Officers spent week set the Lee Side property, which they

807
00:45:02.320 --> 00:45:04.679
<v Speaker 1>referred to as Ground Zero due to the amount of

808
00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:09.000
<v Speaker 1>evidence found there. In the end, seven sets of dismembered

809
00:45:09.079 --> 00:45:13.320
<v Speaker 1>remains were found in planters and an eighth was found

810
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:15.280
<v Speaker 1>in a ravine near the property.

811
00:45:15.639 --> 00:45:18.880
<v Speaker 2>Eight Wow okay, yeah shit.

812
00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:22.559
<v Speaker 1>And can you just imagine too this, This fucking dude

813
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:26.440
<v Speaker 1>is just like your landscaper, but he has access to

814
00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:30.920
<v Speaker 1>your property and he's just freaking like these beautiful planter

815
00:45:31.039 --> 00:45:33.360
<v Speaker 1>boxes that you probably have going up to your property,

816
00:45:33.639 --> 00:45:35.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, at the bottom of them is just a

817
00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:37.519
<v Speaker 1>decay and corpse.

818
00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:40.119
<v Speaker 2>Which in turn would fertilize the plants really well.

819
00:45:40.480 --> 00:45:42.840
<v Speaker 1>So you're probably just tickled pink that they were doing

820
00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:46.320
<v Speaker 1>so well and little did you know, right, Oh my gosh,

821
00:45:46.400 --> 00:45:48.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't even know how you could go boat living

822
00:45:48.760 --> 00:45:50.519
<v Speaker 1>in there again, like in your home.

823
00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:51.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's dark as fuck.

824
00:45:52.119 --> 00:45:56.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So the remains belong to six of the missing

825
00:45:56.239 --> 00:45:59.360
<v Speaker 1>men we have previously talked about, but there were also

826
00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:04.639
<v Speaker 1>two a day victims police hadn't known about before. So

827
00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:08.679
<v Speaker 1>I apologize ahead of time. It's hit this name, it's

828
00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:14.800
<v Speaker 1>Kirshnama Kermar kind of garnum. My apologies to you. I

829
00:46:14.840 --> 00:46:16.519
<v Speaker 1>know you have a beautiful name. It's just very hard

830
00:46:16.519 --> 00:46:21.239
<v Speaker 1>to pronounce. So he was also a refugee from Sri

831
00:46:21.320 --> 00:46:26.880
<v Speaker 1>Lanka who had been trying to avoid deportation. He lived

832
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:29.519
<v Speaker 1>in twenty or he disappeared in twenty fifteen, and he

833
00:46:29.679 --> 00:46:33.239
<v Speaker 1>was living homeless. So I mean, like just someone that

834
00:46:33.400 --> 00:46:38.079
<v Speaker 1>you know could very easily go to tech detected, undetected, detected.

835
00:46:38.519 --> 00:46:40.199
<v Speaker 2>I thought you're going to say, go to Texas. For

836
00:46:40.239 --> 00:46:40.960
<v Speaker 2>a minute, I was like.

837
00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:43.039
<v Speaker 1>What which is Bruce's m O.

838
00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:46.039
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, trying to find those that yeah, can fly

839
00:46:46.159 --> 00:46:47.480
<v Speaker 2>under the radar without being missed.

840
00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:52.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And then the second one was Dean Lisa Wick,

841
00:46:53.559 --> 00:46:56.280
<v Speaker 1>a former bar worker who had struggled with addiction and

842
00:46:56.320 --> 00:46:59.480
<v Speaker 1>became a sex worker. He was last seen in April

843
00:46:59.480 --> 00:47:03.199
<v Speaker 1>twenty six So in the end, Bruce was charged with

844
00:47:03.360 --> 00:47:07.639
<v Speaker 1>the murders of eight men. His chilling, trophy keeping and

845
00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:10.760
<v Speaker 1>methodical planning left no doubt that he was a predator

846
00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:14.239
<v Speaker 1>who had been hiding in plain sight for years. But

847
00:47:14.320 --> 00:47:17.880
<v Speaker 1>thanks to a combination of police work and timing, Bruce's

848
00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:22.119
<v Speaker 1>final victim escaped and the reign of terror finally came

849
00:47:22.159 --> 00:47:25.599
<v Speaker 1>to an end. In twenty eighteen, Bruce was charged with

850
00:47:25.719 --> 00:47:29.159
<v Speaker 1>the first degree murder of all eight men. By January

851
00:47:29.159 --> 00:47:32.480
<v Speaker 1>twenty nineteen, he pled guilty, which I do have to say,

852
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:36.039
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate when these fucking people just pleaded guilty to

853
00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:40.039
<v Speaker 1>things because this spared the families of his victims the

854
00:47:40.039 --> 00:47:42.079
<v Speaker 1>agony of like a lengthy trial.

855
00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:47.119
<v Speaker 2>Yes, however that is very much so up his alley.

856
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:49.039
<v Speaker 1>To Yeah, pleaded.

857
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:52.960
<v Speaker 2>Actually he went in and admitted it constantly, right he did.

858
00:47:53.079 --> 00:47:54.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're right, trying to.

859
00:47:54.519 --> 00:47:56.440
<v Speaker 2>Stay ahead and trying to like, you know, almost be

860
00:47:56.519 --> 00:47:59.480
<v Speaker 2>that victim. I'm so sorry, you know whatever, And that's

861
00:47:59.719 --> 00:48:00.599
<v Speaker 2>he's still doing it.

862
00:48:01.079 --> 00:48:04.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's true. I mean, he's still like the most

863
00:48:04.519 --> 00:48:07.360
<v Speaker 1>piece of shit person out there. But it does save

864
00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:10.880
<v Speaker 1>money and puts people through less of agony, I guess.

865
00:48:11.039 --> 00:48:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but it does go to show that, Yeah, he

866
00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:17.679
<v Speaker 2>doesn't have remorse, because if he had that remorse the

867
00:48:17.800 --> 00:48:20.760
<v Speaker 2>other incidents when he came forward to police, he would

868
00:48:20.800 --> 00:48:21.360
<v Speaker 2>have stopped.

869
00:48:21.880 --> 00:48:22.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

870
00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:25.719
<v Speaker 2>So it's not that he's remorseful he I mean he is.

871
00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:28.480
<v Speaker 2>He's just remorseful that he got caught and he's trying

872
00:48:28.519 --> 00:48:31.760
<v Speaker 2>to make himself seem a bit better.

873
00:48:33.960 --> 00:48:36.719
<v Speaker 1>So Bruce was sentenced to life in prison with no

874
00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:41.320
<v Speaker 1>possibility of parole until he's ninety one years old, which

875
00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:44.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, some people did have an issue with. I

876
00:48:44.280 --> 00:48:46.760
<v Speaker 1>think it's like twenty or no possibility of pearl for

877
00:48:46.760 --> 00:48:50.840
<v Speaker 1>twenty five years. But it was basically like, it's unlikely

878
00:48:51.039 --> 00:48:55.400
<v Speaker 1>that he'll ever be granted this and he'll most likely

879
00:48:55.679 --> 00:48:56.760
<v Speaker 1>die behind bars.

880
00:48:56.840 --> 00:48:57.159
<v Speaker 2>Rot.

881
00:48:57.440 --> 00:49:01.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah good. The Toronto Police are came under intense scrutiny

882
00:49:01.880 --> 00:49:06.000
<v Speaker 1>during and after the case. Of course, they were heavily

883
00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:10.159
<v Speaker 1>criticized for their handling of the missing person's investigations, with

884
00:49:10.760 --> 00:49:16.280
<v Speaker 1>allegations of racism and bias influencing how seriously the disappearances

885
00:49:16.360 --> 00:49:20.719
<v Speaker 1>were taken. This lack of urgency gave Bruce the time

886
00:49:20.840 --> 00:49:24.840
<v Speaker 1>and the opportunity to continue praying on vulnerable men. The

887
00:49:24.920 --> 00:49:30.039
<v Speaker 1>fallout exposed systematic issues in how missing persons cases were handled,

888
00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:36.159
<v Speaker 1>particularly when they involved marginalized communities. And that, my friends,

889
00:49:36.559 --> 00:49:41.280
<v Speaker 1>is the case of Bruce MacArthur, the Santa Claus killer.

890
00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:46.719
<v Speaker 1>Bruce mcasshole mix, piece of shit, make piece of shit,

891
00:49:49.760 --> 00:49:52.679
<v Speaker 1>piece of shit. That is a good name for him, Yeah,

892
00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:54.079
<v Speaker 1>Bruce mcpiece of shit.

893
00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:57.840
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I do you want to say, like at

894
00:49:57.880 --> 00:50:01.519
<v Speaker 2>the beginning, when he was I don't want to say forced,

895
00:50:01.639 --> 00:50:05.440
<v Speaker 2>but damn near forced. Probably you could say forced. When

896
00:50:05.480 --> 00:50:07.960
<v Speaker 2>he was let's say forced, fuck it, when he was

897
00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:11.760
<v Speaker 2>forced to hide him true self and like lock that

898
00:50:11.840 --> 00:50:15.800
<v Speaker 2>part of him away and then finally he was able

899
00:50:15.800 --> 00:50:19.360
<v Speaker 2>to live his life and he went and like I said,

900
00:50:20.199 --> 00:50:22.559
<v Speaker 2>the gates left open, and the dog fucking goes and

901
00:50:22.599 --> 00:50:25.840
<v Speaker 2>he just takes it way too far. Yeah he's fucking

902
00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:28.760
<v Speaker 2>locked up again now. Yeah, before he didn't deserve it,

903
00:50:29.519 --> 00:50:33.400
<v Speaker 2>Now he fucking does. You can't live your life like that.

904
00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:37.360
<v Speaker 2>Fuck you Like, yeah, you deserve to be locked up now.

905
00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:40.960
<v Speaker 1>I know I should say too, Like, this case was

906
00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:45.519
<v Speaker 1>very heavy on the perpetrator, which we don't love to do,

907
00:50:46.199 --> 00:50:48.760
<v Speaker 1>but there isn't even like a shit ton of information

908
00:50:48.880 --> 00:50:52.039
<v Speaker 1>on all of his victims, and you know, he went

909
00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:55.320
<v Speaker 1>about choosing them them for a reason, and so I

910
00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:57.400
<v Speaker 1>almost feel like I have to apologize that this case

911
00:50:57.519 --> 00:51:02.480
<v Speaker 1>was so, like Bruce MacArthur heavy, But they are sometimes right.

912
00:51:02.599 --> 00:51:06.280
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes the story is about the killer. Yeah, we like

913
00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:09.239
<v Speaker 2>to really highlight, Yeah, you're right, the victims whenever possible,

914
00:51:09.599 --> 00:51:13.280
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, sometimes it's we tell the story of a

915
00:51:13.360 --> 00:51:16.320
<v Speaker 2>killer and how they are make piece of shit.

916
00:51:16.920 --> 00:51:21.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean none of his victims deserved any of that, No,

917
00:51:22.239 --> 00:51:26.760
<v Speaker 1>definitely not. They did. Like there was speculation too that

918
00:51:26.800 --> 00:51:29.840
<v Speaker 1>there could be so many more victims because he did

919
00:51:29.880 --> 00:51:32.480
<v Speaker 1>start this like quite late in his life, right, Like

920
00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:36.760
<v Speaker 1>serial killers don't necessarily start the process when they're like

921
00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:42.360
<v Speaker 1>in their late forties or fifties. Yeah, but the police,

922
00:51:42.440 --> 00:51:45.400
<v Speaker 1>like said, they went they went through like all so

923
00:51:45.480 --> 00:51:48.679
<v Speaker 1>many disappearances and tried to connect and stuff. But these

924
00:51:48.800 --> 00:51:50.920
<v Speaker 1>eight were the only ones that they really could.

925
00:51:51.159 --> 00:51:53.159
<v Speaker 2>So, but like you said, there's some that were like

926
00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:56.920
<v Speaker 2>facing deportation and may have never been you know, reported missing,

927
00:51:57.280 --> 00:51:59.280
<v Speaker 2>may have been assumed that they left the country.

928
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:03.679
<v Speaker 1>Well, they went about finding all these bodies, so I'm

929
00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:08.039
<v Speaker 1>sure that they probably they they went about all looking

930
00:52:08.079 --> 00:52:10.960
<v Speaker 1>through all of the places. He did is landscaping, right,

931
00:52:11.320 --> 00:52:13.400
<v Speaker 1>but there could be a place he hit a body

932
00:52:13.440 --> 00:52:14.679
<v Speaker 1>somewhere else exactly.

933
00:52:14.920 --> 00:52:18.599
<v Speaker 2>Well put it this way, Yeah, he buried some bodies

934
00:52:18.639 --> 00:52:22.480
<v Speaker 2>on these properties with his landscaping business. Right now, with landscaping,

935
00:52:22.519 --> 00:52:27.239
<v Speaker 2>what's something else that you do. You do removal, think weeds,

936
00:52:27.960 --> 00:52:31.639
<v Speaker 2>think removal of soil, to put in rock gardens, that

937
00:52:31.800 --> 00:52:34.440
<v Speaker 2>sort of stuff. Who's to say he didn't put bodies

938
00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:36.880
<v Speaker 2>in this removal that were then taken off to these

939
00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:40.360
<v Speaker 2>like composting landfills that are now like thirty feet underground.

940
00:52:40.639 --> 00:52:43.639
<v Speaker 1>Well, because there could. But he also kept the folders

941
00:52:43.719 --> 00:52:46.920
<v Speaker 1>right and there was only nine, true, but maybe that

942
00:52:47.280 --> 00:52:50.239
<v Speaker 1>he killed a couple of people before that, Yeah, exactly.

943
00:52:51.320 --> 00:52:54.800
<v Speaker 1>One thing I did watch too was one of the victims.

944
00:52:54.880 --> 00:52:57.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm not certain which one it was, but they hadn't

945
00:52:57.920 --> 00:53:02.800
<v Speaker 1>been reported, and so the police actually went about sharing

946
00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:05.400
<v Speaker 1>like a photo of this man's face, like and he

947
00:53:05.679 --> 00:53:09.360
<v Speaker 1>was deceased, you know, trying to identify him and stuff,

948
00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:12.800
<v Speaker 1>which oh, just just terrible.

949
00:53:13.079 --> 00:53:14.000
<v Speaker 2>That is wow.

950
00:53:14.800 --> 00:53:18.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Nick, piece of shit. So we'll ended that.

951
00:53:19.800 --> 00:53:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Well, good job in the case, and thank you to

952
00:53:22.320 --> 00:53:24.239
<v Speaker 2>our patrons for suggesting that one.

953
00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:27.440
<v Speaker 1>Yes, no, it was good that they suggested it. It's

954
00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:30.079
<v Speaker 1>so funny though, Oh has to do this because I

955
00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:32.400
<v Speaker 1>think because there was like teeny bits of like neck

956
00:53:32.519 --> 00:53:35.440
<v Speaker 1>potential necrophilia, cannibalism.

957
00:53:35.480 --> 00:53:38.320
<v Speaker 2>And you have a history of doing the next space.

958
00:53:38.119 --> 00:53:40.039
<v Speaker 1>Is I should just blow you all out of the water.

959
00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:43.000
<v Speaker 1>And they're all cannibalism, all necrophilia.

960
00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:45.760
<v Speaker 2>Just as like gross as you can get. Yeah, you

961
00:53:45.840 --> 00:53:49.800
<v Speaker 2>should do it. But yeah, if you want to join

962
00:53:49.840 --> 00:53:52.079
<v Speaker 2>our community over on Patreon, you can go ahead. There

963
00:53:52.119 --> 00:53:54.239
<v Speaker 2>is a link down below. We'd appreciate you and would

964
00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:56.199
<v Speaker 2>love to see you there. We have a bunch of

965
00:53:56.199 --> 00:54:00.480
<v Speaker 2>other links in the description of this podcast as well, website, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram,

966
00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:03.639
<v Speaker 2>it's all there. Yeah, thank you for being here, Thank

967
00:54:03.679 --> 00:54:05.599
<v Speaker 2>you for going over checking those links. If you want

968
00:54:05.599 --> 00:54:09.440
<v Speaker 2>to support us an indie podcast who is produced, hosted, written,

969
00:54:09.519 --> 00:54:12.719
<v Speaker 2>all of it on our own, we would really appreciate it.

970
00:54:12.760 --> 00:54:15.079
<v Speaker 2>Maybe you can give us a review that helps the

971
00:54:15.159 --> 00:54:18.119
<v Speaker 2>show a lot. So thank you so much for being here,

972
00:54:18.320 --> 00:54:21.800
<v Speaker 2>for doing the things you do, and we want you

973
00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:22.480
<v Speaker 2>to have a merry.

974
00:54:22.320 --> 00:54:27.400
<v Speaker 1>Christmas, holidays, holidays, enjoy enjoy this festive time of.

975
00:54:27.400 --> 00:54:31.800
<v Speaker 2>Year, Yes we did. We want you to enjoy it thoroughly. Okay,

976
00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:33.360
<v Speaker 2>and don't be a.

977
00:54:33.360 --> 00:54:35.880
<v Speaker 1>Macasshole, a make piece of ship, make.

978
00:54:35.760 --> 00:54:38.679
<v Speaker 2>Piece of shit. Sorry, I already got it. I think

979
00:54:38.679 --> 00:54:40.880
<v Speaker 2>I called him a macasshole earlier before the mike piece

980
00:54:40.880 --> 00:54:42.880
<v Speaker 2>of ship. So that's that's why I reverted.

981
00:54:42.920 --> 00:54:43.239
<v Speaker 3>Back.

982
00:54:43.320 --> 00:54:45.440
<v Speaker 1>Piece of shit is better than macass.

983
00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:46.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, don't be a make piece of ship.

984
00:54:46.760 --> 00:54:53.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, think about your actions. We're spiraling anyway until our

985
00:54:53.159 --> 00:54:54.000
<v Speaker 1>next episode.

986
00:54:54.599 --> 00:55:00.199
<v Speaker 2>Stay Wicked and Merry. I like it, Yeah, I do,

987
00:55:00.440 --> 00:55:02.320
<v Speaker 2>I do. Okay, we'll stay Wicked and Mary