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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Sikos.

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Speaker 2: I am Dana Valley coming at you with the one,

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the only, the certified, fantabulous, mister Grant Hughes. We're here

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to talk about Matthew Stafford resigning with the Rams.

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Speaker 1: It looks like breaking news for recording. Oh wait, sorry,

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that's a That's Brown podcast. We ever own an NFL show?

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Of course we're here. We don't. I'm just kidding. We're

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here to talk.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna go through it every team exercise of which

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NBA player is more important to their team's future, and

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we'll get into a set into a second, how we're

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going to define future. This isn't like the next five

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years for every team, since, as Grant pointed out, that's

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not like the most efficient or realistic way to look

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at it. But we tried to pick some of the combinations.

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Grant I went back and forth. There's just obligatory ones

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that we needed to pick, like the one combo for

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each team, and then there's ones that we just either

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find fascinating maybe that would be more SICKO than not,

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so they kind of just run the gamut of.

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Speaker 1: And some are just we don't know what the hell

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to pick here.

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Speaker 2: But it's gonna be fun, Like just even going through it,

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it's gonna be very interesting exercise first though, Grant, how

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the heck are you?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing well. I am excited to work through some

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of these because, as you mentioned, like defining what future

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means for one team will be very very different from

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what it means for the next one. So excited to

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get into it. Excited to make some tough calls because

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like I don't I mean, I think the whole point

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of this is if we chose the right two guys,

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this is gonna be really hard to decide between. So

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so interested in seeing where we land and how much

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disagreement there may or may not be.

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Speaker 2: There were a few teams for us we're even narrowing

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down what was the right combination for us to talk

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about ended up being a chore.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm, that's true, and sometimes we didn't something. In

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a couple of cases, we just didn't do.

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Speaker 2: That, And so future we're just kind of doing this

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relative to what each team's window or arc is right now, correct,

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So there's no specific like year amount, but it's like

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each team almost has their own individual timeframe. We know

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what they're trying to do now, and so we're asking

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which player is more important to that end goal? Yep,

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And I guess with that we can get started.

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Speaker 1: We begin.

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Speaker 2: Grant's proprietary alphabet has the Atlanta Hawks going first. The

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two players we selected here were Zachary Resiche and Dyson Daniels.

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Who is more important of this team's future?

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Speaker 1: Grant?

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Speaker 3: So, I think I gotta go Resache and tell me

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if you feel this way. It's like it has as

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much to do with sort of the investment in him,

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which is the number one overall pick. That guy sort

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of has to matter a little bit more. And I

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think like the best version of the Hawks, Like, I

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think it's fair to say Daniels is just a better

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player right now, even though Resache has has looked pretty

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good lately. In particular, I think we know roughly what

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Daniels is, and we know roughly like what kind of

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ceiling that type of player has, which is like maybe

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the best perimeter defender in the league. And the offense

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you get from him is is kind of gravy, and

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it's never gonna He's you know, not gonna be a

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twenty point guy, not gonna be a high volume high

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accuracy three point shooter. So it's like he fits in

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a bucket that we kind of understand. Reese Sche just

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he needs to have a higher ceiling for Atlanta to

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really be you know, special at some point in the

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near to midterm future. So I think it's just him

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for me.

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Speaker 1: What do you think I would agree with you?

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Speaker 2: I think also a huge part of it too is

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when you look at the contract situations. In this case,

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Dyson Daniels is coming up on his next deal, Reese

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Sche has three more seasons before his next deal would

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kick in, and so you combine that with the investment,

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and then just with the you know, you kind of

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mentioned this with Dyson Daniels's defensive limitations, Recesche might not

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have that. It's probably maybe it's too soon to just

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say this, but he doesn't seem like someone who has

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that superstar upside. But he is the archetype that every

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team seems to desire, where it's someone who will hustle

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away from the ball, work really hard on defense, and

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then in theory like can then also hit three. And

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so if the self creation aspect isn't there, the fact

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that he checks so many different boxes or could be

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called a two way asset where Dice and Daniels. Yeah,

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he can do stuff on offense when you look at

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the floater, when you look at some of his passing,

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but there's going to be like real restrictions there even

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as a compliment that Resis Schay in theory should not have.

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Speaker 3: And I think too this may not be the case

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for every tandem we talk about, but like, because of

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Daniel's limitations, it's very important that Reesa Scha hits like

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a couple of the key parts of his potential, which

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is the shooting in particular, Like if Daniels is going

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to be out there, which you would assume they want

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both of these guys around, yeah, for several years, Like

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Resa Scha is the guy that can make it easier

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to have Daniels on the floor, whereas like I don't

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know what Daniels would need to do to be like okay,

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now we can accommodate Resas say, because Resche is not,

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in theory that kind of player. He's the kind of

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player that allows you to have quote unquote one way

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guys or limited guys because he can fill in a

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little litle bit of everything. Daniels is like he's got

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a specific job that you need to and because he's

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not an elite offensive player or a shooter, it helped

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Reesa Shay can help him be like, Okay, well we

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can he can be on the floor because we can

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get shooting or whatever from a little playmaking from Resa Sje.

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Speaker 2: Do you think there's a case because one of the

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combos we bandied about was Resi che or Jalen Johnson,

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does he have any case to be more important than

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Jalen Johnson when you consider the sheer breadth of time

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that Jalen Johnson has missed through the first four years

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of his career.

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Speaker 3: Now, I don't think so. I think wouldn't you wouldn't

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you say that if Reesa Jay got to the level

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that Johnson has been at when healthy, like the Hawks

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would be like ecstatic. Yeah, I think I think Johnson

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has gotten to you know, he hasn't made an All

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Star Game, but like he's someone you talk about in

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that range.

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Speaker 1: His all injuries are a bummer. I want to make

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that clear.

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Speaker 2: But he seemed like he might have been tracking towards

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most improved Player last year had he played enough games,

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and this year he might have received All Star consideration

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had he never got, So that just really sucks who

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we got next?

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Speaker 3: Grant Boston Celtics here, So this you could have gone

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a lot of different ways about it. And you know,

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the Celtics are contenders and defending champs, so future is

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different for them. Jalen Brown or Derek White? What do

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we think?

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Speaker 1: So?

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Speaker 2: I think it's Derek White. And I'm not saying it's

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because I think that Derek White is the better player

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right now, nor do I actually think that he is

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going to be the better player in the future. I

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just look at Boston's financial situation and there's going to

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be a breaking point when it comes to paying the

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second apron and the requisite luxury taxes that come with

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it along with the team building restrictions that come with it.

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Now do I know when they're gonna hit that limit?

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I mean, could it be this summer? Like if they

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just don't win the title, will they look at this

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team and say, Okay, they're gonna cost what probably over

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half a billion dollars next year when you factor in

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the salary, the repeater tax, and now you're getting into

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the territory of the first round picks being frozen. The

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limitations of who you can sign, what you can do

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in trades, and I think that when they get to

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that point, Jalen Brown will be more likely to become

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collateral damage just because Derek White is cheaper and he's

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probably even more plugging.

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Speaker 1: They're both plug in play.

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Speaker 2: Derek whit is probably just even more plug and play

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when you look at the type of offensive volume he

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would need in the immediate I think Jalen Brown is

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just more important. Where do you sort of like But

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by the way, the other what would make me wrong,

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just to undermind my own point is if the Celtics

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decide we're gonna wait this out at least another year

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and then organically KP comes off the books, you can

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figure out what you want to do with Drew Holliday

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at that point as well. So there is just a

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scenario where it's Jalen Brown, Derek White, and Jason Tatum are.

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Speaker 1: The future for the Celtics.

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Speaker 3: I would say, I think, like if we disagree, it's

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just in how we're viewing the question, which just to

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like put a fine, we're asking which of these two

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players more important to the team's future, right, Like, if

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we make it as simple as possible. That's what we're asking, right,

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Like that's yeah, that's it. So I would say, if

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I'm Boston, I view the future as three months from now,

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because I think that's probably how I would want to

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look at it if you're at the level that they're at,

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and that is I mean, like now, you can be

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extreme with that and you have a Phoenix situation if

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you really don't care about the more distant future. But

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I think for Boston, because it has won it and

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because it is, you know, on the very short list

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of teams we would expect to win it this year,

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I think Brown is a better player the finals, MVP,

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whatever stock you want to put in that, he's not

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the team's best player. But like if you they're both

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super important, they're both great. I love Derek White. I

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just think Jalen Brown is the guy that like, yeah,

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he might win them three playoff games in a series. Uh,

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And that's all I care about if I'm Boston. Now,

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if you throw the financial stuff in, then like yeah, yeah,

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then how much of a future does he have with

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the team on a five year time horizon? But but

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I think I'm I'm we agree about like who they

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are as players. I think I'm just looking at a

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much shorter window.

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Speaker 2: Which is I guess even if you are looking at

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it through my window. You could also make the case

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that Jalen Brown is more important because it's really gonna

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matter what do you get back in a trade for

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Jalen Brown, because there's a private importance to that return

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as well. So I guess Jalen Brown would be the

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right if it was just if the question was I

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guess different in saying which player is more likely to

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be on this team Let's say in twenty twenty six,

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do you think that would you still have the answer

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is Jalen Brown.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's a pretty different question, I think. And yeah,

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I guess it's tied to like the whole future aspect

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of it, because if Jalen Brown isn't on the team,

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then by definition, he's not part of that future unless

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you count the trade return as being like him quote unquote. Uh,

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maybe I would change it. Maybe I would change it,

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But I think, you know, I'm trying think like I'm Boston,

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and I think Boston should just care about June. Basically.

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Speaker 1: I think that's fair. I'm they are.

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Speaker 2: This is tangentoisly related I think they're gonna be fascinating

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to see how long they kind of stick with like

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this second Aprin territory, because they're the rare case where

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it's they could probably if they let's just say, money

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wasn't an object even on me know what it is,

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they can be good for a really long time. This

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isn't a Phoenix situations, probably not even a Minnesota situation

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where you consider how dependent they are. First of all,

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they're not as good right now, and then it's not

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even an okayc situation where they haven't had to pay

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the piper in that sense just yet. So I'm just

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gonna be very curious to see, especially of course the

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sale of the team that's going to factor into everything

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as well. I'm just very intrigued to see how long

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they let this ride when it's becoming like prohibitively expensive.

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Speaker 1: Just the way that this new CBA is set.

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Speaker 3: Up, right, Yeah, this is they'll be the limit testers, really,

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I think for like, how smart is it to operate

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this way?

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Speaker 2: Brooklyn's next Cam Johnson or Nick Claxton Grant who's more

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important to this team's future?

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Speaker 3: Man, So Cam Johnson is still on the team, which

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maybe we should note because everyone assumed he would not

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be after the trade deadline. So I think that raises

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the question of, like, did Brooklyn just hold out because

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it didn't it got a bunch of offers and it

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thought Johnson would command more later or were the offers

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actually not like as great as they thought they'd be,

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Because when we're talking about Johnson, I think we are

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talking about like what's his what's the trade return going

252
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to be? Because of where Brooklyn is like in its trajectory,

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this is like phase zero of a rebuild. So I

254
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think it might Okay, I think it's Claxton actually, because

255
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I think the best version of Claxton is like a

256
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fringe all defense guy. He blocked like thirty shots in

257
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a ten game span towards the end of February. I

258
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think I think, and because he's under contract, they just

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they just re upped with him for longer. I think

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I lean Claxton because I think Johnson on the on

261
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the Brown theory might just be gone, and so longer term,

262
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I think maybe Claxton matters more. This is a tough one,

263
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though There's gonna be some of these where it's just

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I don't know the right answer.

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Speaker 2: See, and I think I ultimately agree with you here,

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but I gave a lot of thought to this is

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a as of right now anyway, this is a two

268
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year rebuild, and Cam Johnson can fit on any iteration

269
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of the Brooklyn Nets, like it doesn't matter who you

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put around him, and just the spacing in general, if

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you eventually, I think if we identified their biggest need,

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it would be like get a primary playmaker, like some

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I'm gonna run the offense in there around a super

274
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young prospect or just the raw prospect in that role.

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Having Cam Johnson to me, is way more valuable than

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having Nicholas Claxton. However, I look at how good the

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Nets were this year, like even after trading Dorny Phinney

278
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Smith and Denishruoterer, they've won too much.

279
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Speaker 1: And so I think they're gonna get to.

280
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Speaker 2: The summer and they're gonna say, like get Cam Johnson

281
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just did, like we can't cause they're not gonna have

282
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as I assume as high lottery odds as they were expecting,

283
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like they probably wanted to be in the top four

284
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or five.

285
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Speaker 1: And now we're kind of wondering.

286
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Speaker 2: We're not even wondering, like Philly just has the power

287
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to out tank the nets at this point.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna lean Claxton as well.

289
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Speaker 2: And I think there's something to the effect of could

290
00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,000
he be the base of your entire defense where it's

291
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The answer to me is probably yes.

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Speaker 1: Where he does like he's probably.

293
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Speaker 2: Better like switching than doing a lot of the conventional

294
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big man stuff.

295
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Speaker 1: But he does a lot of the conventional big men

296
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stuff just.

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Speaker 2: Fine as well. And then the contract situation too. But

298
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I really do think Cam Johnson has a case.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I I struggle with it. I think you

300
00:13:30,519 --> 00:13:31,440
could go either way here.

301
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:32,759
Speaker 1: Next up is Charlie Grant.

302
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Speaker 3: Uh, this is LaMelo ball or Brandon Miller. What do

303
00:13:38,799 --> 00:13:39,120
you think?

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Speaker 1: I think? You know what? I think? The answer to me,

305
00:13:43,279 --> 00:13:45,320
I mean, if we really wanted to put on like

306
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,159
r C suite suits, it's LaMelo. But like putting butts in.

307
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Speaker 2: Seats just you the All Star voting in itself, Like

308
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,039
if you want the Hornets to be a draw even

309
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,039
when they're not great, it's LaMelo.

310
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Speaker 1: But to me it's still LaMelo.

311
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Speaker 2: Because Brandon Miller this year, I don't think that he

312
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,919
necessarily regressed before his injury that fractured right wrist.

313
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Speaker 1: Wrist. I can't say he's fractured right wist. He just

314
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,039
didn't like it felt like lateral, or at least offensively,

315
00:14:12,039 --> 00:14:14,000
it felt lateral. There might have been some subtle improvements

316
00:14:14,039 --> 00:14:15,399
on the defensive, where I thought he was.

317
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,679
Speaker 2: Really good last year. But I look at teams that

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00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,720
are rebuilding or in a transition phase or looking at

319
00:14:21,799 --> 00:14:24,480
a like a long term window more so than like Boston,

320
00:14:24,559 --> 00:14:28,039
like you said, is only going to consider June, who

321
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,559
can be the driving force of everything on offense. And

322
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that's to me, when you're rebuilding, that's priority numero uno.

323
00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,720
We don't have any evidence that a healthy LaMelo can't

324
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do that. Yeah, And I honestly, I think we have

325
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,559
enough offense to say that, given the talent around him

326
00:14:44,759 --> 00:14:46,360
and the fact that when he's on the court they

327
00:14:46,399 --> 00:14:49,480
have a league averager better offense, that he can do that.

328
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And so it's a matter of well, can he stay healthy?

329
00:14:52,879 --> 00:14:55,399
So that question is fair. But even if he wanted

330
00:14:55,399 --> 00:14:59,200
to say, and like how I viewed it with Boston,

331
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,279
will Brandon definitely gonna be here for longer, which might

332
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,679
just speak more to the way contracts work. LaMelo Paul

333
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then becomes incredibly important if you think that he's not

334
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long for Charlotte because of what you're gonna get in

335
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return for him. And so I think the answer to

336
00:15:14,879 --> 00:15:17,039
me here is still pretty clearly Lamello.

337
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Speaker 3: I agree. I think it's a question of player types really,

338
00:15:20,559 --> 00:15:23,240
and it's early enough in Miller's career where this is

339
00:15:23,279 --> 00:15:26,759
a risky like tack to take. But Miller is a

340
00:15:26,759 --> 00:15:31,679
complimentary second star. I think maybe he does a Paul

341
00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,279
George thing where for a while there he becomes something

342
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:38,399
more than that. But LaMelo is like the singular driver.

343
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:43,080
Like if LaMelo is like maximally successful in becoming like

344
00:15:43,159 --> 00:15:46,519
what he should become, He's a primary shot creator and

345
00:15:46,679 --> 00:15:49,279
offensive engine in a good offense, and like that's the

346
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,279
thing you need to have. And Miller, I don't feel like,

347
00:15:52,399 --> 00:15:55,399
is that player type. He has other advantages over LaMelo,

348
00:15:55,519 --> 00:15:58,320
but like LaMelo is, the in theory is the hardest

349
00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,639
thing to get and so he just has to be

350
00:16:00,799 --> 00:16:02,200
more important big picture wise.

351
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Speaker 2: Uh yeah, So well, I thought I thought maybe you

352
00:16:05,519 --> 00:16:08,159
would say Miller in there, I'm not gonna lie wrong.

353
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,960
We are onto the Chicago Bulls, Modus Bouzellis or Kobe

354
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:13,600
White Grant who's more important to the future.

355
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,440
Speaker 3: I mean, we'll have to trot out the whole like

356
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,240
how much future does Kobe White have because his contract's

357
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,879
too small to realistically extend, so unrestricted free agency looms.

358
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:28,120
White has I think been like a couple different times,

359
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,440
like not an All Star, but where you like, we've

360
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,240
at least like thrown his name out there when we're

361
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,639
putting our teams together, good offensive lead guard potentially, like,

362
00:16:36,279 --> 00:16:40,759
but Boozellis just has the flashes this year, the the

363
00:16:41,759 --> 00:16:46,240
like sort of mystery box aspect to and really like

364
00:16:46,279 --> 00:16:50,519
if the Bulls, if I mean, if there's any chance

365
00:16:50,519 --> 00:16:54,000
that the Bulls ever seriously do rebuild and just you know,

366
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,440
turn it over, we're going to have a new core,

367
00:16:56,519 --> 00:16:59,720
We're gonna lose. Like then Bozellis is like is frankly

368
00:16:59,759 --> 00:17:02,159
the same central figure on the whole team, so like

369
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:03,639
it just has to be him.

370
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:04,880
Speaker 1: I would agree with you.

371
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:06,960
Speaker 2: What I'm struggling to because I want to be consistent

372
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:08,759
is and I just don't think that Kobe White is

373
00:17:08,759 --> 00:17:10,240
going to be on the level of let Us LaMelo,

374
00:17:10,559 --> 00:17:12,680
because we just talked about him as example, if you

375
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:14,920
do move him, the return is just not going to

376
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:16,720
be nearly as consequential as it would be if you

377
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:18,960
were moving someone like LaMelo. So I think the answer

378
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,920
is Buzelli's here, and before coming into the season, I

379
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,119
probably would not have set him even though it's okay,

380
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,319
he's the signal of the future. He was drafted in

381
00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,039
the lottery, but like he's just impressed me. I know,

382
00:17:29,079 --> 00:17:31,400
he's pretty raw on offense still, but outside the dunks,

383
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,039
it feels like there's a lot there and he's still where.

384
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,240
I know he's only started playing a ton within the

385
00:17:36,279 --> 00:17:39,039
past like month, and like he's the ninety first percentile

386
00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,799
of rimpoint saved for seventy five possessions. Yeah, like this

387
00:17:41,839 --> 00:17:44,480
is someone who does big man stuff and wing stuff

388
00:17:44,839 --> 00:17:47,200
on the defensive end, And so do I think that

389
00:17:47,759 --> 00:17:50,279
if the Bulls are actually rebuilding that he is the

390
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,240
number one guy? No, I think the goal is to

391
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,200
get maybe one or two players in here who have

392
00:17:55,279 --> 00:17:57,680
higher ceilings than him, for sure, But as of right now,

393
00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,880
it's like you said, it's what other options do you have?

394
00:18:00,039 --> 00:18:01,720
The only reason I think the answer can be Kobe

395
00:18:01,759 --> 00:18:04,000
White is if you think that the Bulls are going

396
00:18:04,039 --> 00:18:07,839
to use i'll say short circuit themselves. But if they're

397
00:18:07,839 --> 00:18:10,480
gonna try and accelerate this process and they want to

398
00:18:10,519 --> 00:18:13,440
be good next season, because then I end beyond, because

399
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,240
then Kobe White probably needs to be the answer.

400
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:16,400
Speaker 1: Cleveland's up. All right?

401
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,160
Speaker 3: Oh, I love the picture here for this one. It's

402
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,200
tough to find those two together. Jared Allen friend of

403
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,359
the pod and DeAndre Hunter. New guy could be a

404
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,480
friend of the pod, just has to has to. We

405
00:18:27,559 --> 00:18:29,839
have to slight him first, and maybe we will. Right now,

406
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:30,400
what do you think?

407
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,440
Speaker 2: Maybe this is counterintuitive because you have Evan Mobley, but

408
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,680
I think it's Jared Allen. I just there's part of

409
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:43,519
me that wonders, like, if come playoff time, could we

410
00:18:43,559 --> 00:18:45,200
look at it and say, like, actually, Max Strews is

411
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,599
the better kind of finishing touch to the core for

412
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,839
than DeAndre Hunter, Because yes, DeAndre Hunter will give you

413
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,400
more on defense, but is it the same And I

414
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,720
think he's better suited to guard the four specifically too,

415
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,200
if you wanted to play with one big. And so

416
00:18:58,279 --> 00:19:00,880
that gets into another interesting discussion and of well, what's

417
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,160
the future of the Cavs look like on the court

418
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,039
at their core lineup specifically, but just between the shooting,

419
00:19:07,559 --> 00:19:11,759
the playmaking, the off ball movement. I think I lean

420
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,079
Max Struce over Hunter, which is why I then lean

421
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:15,279
Jared Allen over Hunter.

422
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,640
Speaker 1: That's how I got to that answer.

423
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's hard because like in both cases you'd

424
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:26,079
say there's a guy in house that I mean maybe

425
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,319
should just be playing ahead of him. And that's so

426
00:19:28,759 --> 00:19:31,119
going in one Big Looks and Mobiley's playing over Allen

427
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,240
is case one and case two is the Struce or

428
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,440
I don't know, some tie Jerome like if you want

429
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:42,559
to play whatever, like over Hunter. So I think because

430
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:47,319
Alan still seems to matter so much in the two

431
00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,880
Big Looks that like, frankly, you probably are gonna need

432
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:51,920
against Boston and against like I don't know, if you

433
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,480
run up against some other teams, like you're gonna need

434
00:19:54,519 --> 00:19:56,799
that dimension the basically.

435
00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,880
Speaker 2: Karl Anthony Towns of Mitchell Robinson that right, everything I

436
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,200
think it's Alan. And maybe part of that too is

437
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,079
like Hunter has only been this good over you know,

438
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,680
at once ever, and that's over the last few months,

439
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,039
and their injury concerns with him, so like how much

440
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,359
like future stock do you want to put in him.

441
00:20:14,799 --> 00:20:17,119
That's not to say he he might be the perfect

442
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,559
piece like that's why we loved his acquisition so much.

443
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,839
But Alan has been this for a long time and

444
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,400
should be for however many years, the Caves decide they

445
00:20:26,559 --> 00:20:29,119
want to stick around, stick with him. So it's it's Alan,

446
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,079
but it's it's it's tough because like again, they're in

447
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,079
house guys that you'd say, like, well, doesn't the best

448
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:34,839
version of the Cabs just have Mobile at the five?

449
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 3: Like maybe, I don't know.

450
00:20:36,599 --> 00:20:39,039
Speaker 2: There's I also think that given our track record on

451
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:41,720
Jared Allen takes, that they needs to be Jared Allen

452
00:20:41,759 --> 00:20:42,440
for posterity.

453
00:20:42,599 --> 00:20:43,480
Speaker 3: We owe this to him.

454
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, but well.

455
00:20:44,799 --> 00:20:48,559
Speaker 2: Because we we like lampoon to the contract, not the player,

456
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,240
but why they pay him with Mobile. And then remember

457
00:20:51,279 --> 00:20:53,480
after last year's playoffs, like all that stuff that came

458
00:20:53,519 --> 00:20:56,240
out about Jared Allen not players, like why would he

459
00:20:56,279 --> 00:20:57,319
ever sign an extension?

460
00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:58,880
Speaker 1: He's gonna definitely want out.

461
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 2: The signs an extension, and so the answer needs to

462
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,240
be jarried down. If this had been I'm just curious.

463
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:09,119
Donovan Mitchell or Darius Garland, I.

464
00:21:09,279 --> 00:21:12,519
Speaker 3: Think I think to be consistent because as much as

465
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,079
I've lauded Garland this year, I think Mitchell is still

466
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,359
the better player in terms of like, at least in

467
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,440
the games, I think that will matter the most. So

468
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,640
I probably would have gone Mitchell. But that's do you

469
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,839
I mean, do you agree if if you go Garland,

470
00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:27,680
it's like, yeah, I get.

471
00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:30,680
Speaker 2: It, I go Garland because the Calves are sort of

472
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,440
similar to OKC, except the pecking order is probably a

473
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,119
little bit fuzzier. Here is that I'm still yes, they're

474
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,039
a contender, but this isn't Boston to where it's oh,

475
00:21:41,079 --> 00:21:43,359
you just need to look at it through June, and

476
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,319
even Boston needs to consider longer term expensive But the

477
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,839
Calves are still their core four is I mean, three

478
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,440
of their four players are like really young and like Darius, Garland,

479
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,240
ev and Mobiley specifically, and so I view them those

480
00:21:55,279 --> 00:21:58,240
two together as just the future of this team. And

481
00:21:58,279 --> 00:22:00,000
so it just depends on which is something why you

482
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,200
go with that duo. This one was more interesting because

483
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,079
you don't want to have to like juggle that push

484
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:06,759
and pull there. Because if it's the short term, I

485
00:22:06,759 --> 00:22:09,000
do think it's Mitchell just the defensive attention he draws

486
00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:11,519
in the types of shots he can hit. But if

487
00:22:11,559 --> 00:22:13,599
you're trying to look at the Calves through the lens

488
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,920
of what makes them sustainable. It does almost feel like

489
00:22:17,839 --> 00:22:21,160
Darius Garland's younger is Donovan Mitchell like going to stay

490
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,240
around as long as Garland is, And so that's why

491
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:24,279
I would lean Darius.

492
00:22:24,319 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 3: And maybe this is a good time to make this point,

493
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,440
Like we didn't include Evan Mobley because we're trying to

494
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,359
have like a tough choice and if it's if Mobley's involved,

495
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,599
we just pick Mobley and move on. So, like there'll

496
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,480
be other cases where you might say, well, why don't

497
00:22:38,519 --> 00:22:41,359
this guy? It's like, well, because what will we talk about?

498
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,440
It's too easy to say Mobiley he's the most important guy? Yeah,

499
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,480
I mean, is he one of the ten most important

500
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,720
players in the league in terms of its future? Probably?

501
00:22:50,039 --> 00:22:51,519
Speaker 2: I mean, look, you could argue that he's the most

502
00:22:51,519 --> 00:22:53,400
important player on the team right now when you're.

503
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,759
Speaker 3: Getting right, and if you're extending that out over several years,

504
00:22:56,759 --> 00:22:59,200
it's like there's no conversation. It's Mobley.

505
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,319
Speaker 2: Is the Dallas Mavericks, which one of the players we picked.

506
00:23:04,319 --> 00:23:06,839
I couldn't get a picture of them together, so apologies,

507
00:23:06,839 --> 00:23:10,440
but Derek Lively or Max Christie, because I do could

508
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:11,599
we start with this first?

509
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 1: Unless is Derek Lively versus.

510
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,839
Speaker 2: Anthony Davis better when you're looking at it, like and

511
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,960
what's the future in Dallas? When Nico Harrison thinks long

512
00:23:19,039 --> 00:23:19,960
term is what?

513
00:23:20,319 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 1: And by the way, he's not wrong.

514
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:23,759
Speaker 2: We've been kind of making fun of him because he

515
00:23:23,839 --> 00:23:27,319
deserves it. But like these NBA windows are just with

516
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,279
the like Oklahoma City in Boston so far proving to

517
00:23:30,319 --> 00:23:32,960
be the only exceptions. Like these title windows are like

518
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,319
three four years a long time now in today's NBA.

519
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean an interesting one might like Kyrie or

520
00:23:39,519 --> 00:23:41,599
Anthony Davis would have been would have been a high

521
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,799
level interesting one. But like so just we're going Look,

522
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,079
we picked Lively and Christie because I think there's a

523
00:23:48,079 --> 00:23:51,200
lot to like unpack, some of which is, like, what

524
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,839
is a Derek Lively. We've talked about this without Luca,

525
00:23:54,079 --> 00:23:57,079
Like offensively, do you get enough juice there for him

526
00:23:57,079 --> 00:23:59,720
to be like a true plus on both ends? I

527
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,599
think probably just because he can be an offensive rebounder

528
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,079
and who knows what else he might add to his game.

529
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,279
Christy has been really good since coming over, like way

530
00:24:08,319 --> 00:24:11,079
over forty percent from three, is doing some playmaking off

531
00:24:11,079 --> 00:24:14,200
the dribble. It has great size, on the wing good defender.

532
00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:18,039
So it's kind of like the do you want an

533
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,640
all defense center or do you want like maybe a

534
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:25,359
premium young two way wing that like is perfect against

535
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,559
the Jason Tatums and Jalen Brown's and go down the list.

536
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,559
I think I still lean lively because I because I

537
00:24:33,599 --> 00:24:36,640
think I just think the world of his defensive potential

538
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,519
and so like, I'm gonna go with the guy that

539
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,640
might have a superpower over Christy, who I think is

540
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,400
probably not gonna be a high volume on ball like

541
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,519
kind of guy, so he falls more into the role

542
00:24:48,519 --> 00:24:52,799
playing like Reesa Schet should love to get like to

543
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,839
the Christie level. I think if we're talking about Christy today,

544
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,319
who knows if that's sustainable. So I lean lively just

545
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,559
because I think the defenses is too valuable.

546
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, you hit the two points that I would have made.

547
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,160
It's just he is someone who if you told me

548
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,400
he won a Defensive Player of the Year award, it

549
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,720
would not shock me. I'm not gonna predict it, but

550
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,319
it wouldn't shock me. And then the bigger thing for

551
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,880
me is like we would need to see way more

552
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,279
on ball stuff out of Max Christy because even now

553
00:25:17,279 --> 00:25:20,759
like he's not the most self efficient efficient like self starter,

554
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,319
and he's not the best passer either, so we just

555
00:25:23,319 --> 00:25:26,119
don't have the evidence you could counter that. As you

556
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:27,559
mentioned at the top, they're like, well, what is Derek

557
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,880
Lively without Luca because Luca's making Jackson Hayes look super

558
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,720
useful right now. So but I just think the defense

559
00:25:33,759 --> 00:25:36,000
from Derek Love is like that has nothing to do

560
00:25:36,079 --> 00:25:38,880
with with Luka Doncic. So I think the answer is him.

561
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,359
Would you have gone between Kyrie ride who would you

562
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,640
have gone with? I think Nico Harrison kind of pretty

563
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:48,079
clearly assigned Anthony Davis that label, right, Yeah.

564
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,519
Speaker 3: I it would be hard though, because you know, Kyrie

565
00:25:52,559 --> 00:25:55,359
does like I've you know, on the LaMelo thinking of

566
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,279
like it's so hard to find a guy that can

567
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,559
just be your offensive engine. I think maybe because of

568
00:26:01,599 --> 00:26:04,039
the eight, Like I think Anthony Davis can like slowly

569
00:26:04,079 --> 00:26:06,160
decline and still be like a pretty close to like

570
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,880
you know, I mean, he's not a top five guy anymore,

571
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,319
but he can play that way sometimes, whereas Kyrie, as

572
00:26:11,319 --> 00:26:13,039
he gets older, I think it just gets too hard

573
00:26:13,079 --> 00:26:15,960
for a smaller guard to be at that level. So

574
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,799
I probably would have gone Davis, I might go.

575
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,799
Speaker 2: Kyrie, and I don't know if it's just because I mean,

576
00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:22,680
like he can be a free agent this summer, so

577
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,599
doesn't that kind of give him more control? Because what

578
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,200
is let's say Kyrie left. Do you think that changes

579
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,160
Dallas his vision post Luca at all? Or do you

580
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,480
think if this really was more built around let's just

581
00:26:34,519 --> 00:26:38,119
be huge, physical, versatile on defense and try and like

582
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,119
really muck up a lot of like some of these

583
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,559
offensive teams. Like looking at the West specifically, you have

584
00:26:44,319 --> 00:26:46,240
I mean, okay, seeing Denver are probably like the two

585
00:26:46,279 --> 00:26:48,480
elites there, but even like maybe a Golden State.

586
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,599
Speaker 3: Well, I think it depends on how you're like how

587
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,000
you're looking at it, because yeah, if you take Davis

588
00:26:54,039 --> 00:26:56,519
off this team, Lively and gafferd are still there, so

589
00:26:56,559 --> 00:26:58,319
you're gonna be you know, you're gonna get away with

590
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,759
it up front, Take Kyrie, this team like who's creating shots.

591
00:27:01,759 --> 00:27:05,640
It's just so like replaceability party for the when Jayden

592
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,839
Hardy's finally going to replaceability favors Kyrie. I do think

593
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,960
what we haven't really discussed is just like the sheer

594
00:27:12,079 --> 00:27:15,880
weight of what Anthony Davis needs to do to make

595
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,119
Dallas fans forget for even half a second about like

596
00:27:19,279 --> 00:27:21,960
who he's here because of like and who he's here

597
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,200
in exchange for so like if we're gonna like rope

598
00:27:25,279 --> 00:27:29,480
that element of it in, then Davis is just like sorry,

599
00:27:29,519 --> 00:27:33,119
the weight of like a generation of fans like is

600
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,920
on your shoulders because you need to be the guy

601
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,440
that you know, obviously, I don't think they're gonna win

602
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,000
a title and he's not going to lead him there,

603
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,279
but like you got to give him something because you

604
00:27:43,279 --> 00:27:44,839
know it's not fair to him. But he's the guy

605
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,720
that's here and Luke's not, and that just makes his

606
00:27:47,839 --> 00:27:52,319
role super important. From like a box office fans sentiment,

607
00:27:52,519 --> 00:27:53,680
you know, kind of standpoint.

608
00:27:54,279 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: Are you ready for some breaking news? Great? Are you're

609
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,119
sitting down? This is good the Toronto Raptors. This is tough.

610
00:28:01,559 --> 00:28:05,079
Dave Wave, PJ. Tucker. He's eligible to join a playoff team.

611
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:06,480
It's before March. First.

612
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,279
Speaker 2: Congratulations to whoever winds up with him, which I'm assuming

613
00:28:10,279 --> 00:28:13,519
will happen after we're done recording this podcast. For now,

614
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:15,640
we are on too. I kind of forgot that he

615
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,079
was still on the Raptors payroll. I'm not gonna lie

616
00:28:18,079 --> 00:28:19,519
like got it wasn't necessarily sure where.

617
00:28:19,319 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 1: He ended up.

618
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:24,079
Speaker 2: We're onto the Denver Nuggets, Grant, Peyton Watson or Michael

619
00:28:24,079 --> 00:28:24,720
Porter Junior.

620
00:28:24,759 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: Who's more important? And did I hot? Was this your team?

621
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:27,599
Did I just hijacket?

622
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 3: No? It's fine. No, I gave you the that doesn't

623
00:28:30,519 --> 00:28:32,400
I don't. I can't remember Dan, I can't remember thirty

624
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,720
seconds ago. I'm gonna go MPJ. I think one, because

625
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,759
I'm gonna start to fall into some some grooves that

626
00:28:39,799 --> 00:28:44,440
I'm carving here. One has a superpower, just a phenomenal

627
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,119
shooter on a team that like desperately needs what he does.

628
00:28:48,599 --> 00:28:50,720
I think if there were no Aaron Gordon, then maybe

629
00:28:50,759 --> 00:28:54,079
Peyton Watson would be like have a stronger case. And Two,

630
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,720
if the Nuggets are gonna do anything to change the roster,

631
00:28:57,799 --> 00:29:00,519
it's gonna be by trading MPJ. So like whether he's

632
00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:02,680
there or not, there's a little bit of Jalen Brown

633
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,200
aspect to it too, Like he's the route to I think,

634
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,839
fundamentally changing the team if they decide that's necessary. And

635
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,440
he's also just indispensable because you take his shooting out

636
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,039
of the mix, then like there's just nobody the defenses

637
00:29:14,079 --> 00:29:15,920
are freaking out chasing around off the ball.

638
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the answer Michael is Michael Porter Junior

639
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,519
as well, especially because this version of Michael Porter Junior

640
00:29:23,559 --> 00:29:26,279
where it's oh, put pressure on the rim, creating some

641
00:29:26,319 --> 00:29:29,319
of your own shots, like I saw, I still think

642
00:29:29,359 --> 00:29:31,079
it's him, And I didn't even really give the trade

643
00:29:31,359 --> 00:29:34,240
stuff much consideration, but I kind of like this team

644
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:39,000
when you're looking at Peyton Watson's upside and could you say, okay,

645
00:29:39,079 --> 00:29:41,559
like the team only gonna get more expensive Christian Brown's

646
00:29:41,559 --> 00:29:43,920
extension eligible. They just paid Gordon and Murray, you have

647
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,720
Jokic NPJ is gonna be on a new deal soon,

648
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,160
Like how long of a I guess it depends on

649
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,880
what type of runway you're giving this team, but I

650
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,319
think because of how they're using Peyton Watson on offense,

651
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,119
the answer almost has to be Michael Porter Junior to me,

652
00:29:58,200 --> 00:29:59,759
Like they haven't really tried to test out, like, oh,

653
00:29:59,759 --> 00:30:02,599
it's Peyton Watson, like do some more ball handling and

654
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,839
we he has not shown enough as a shooter to say,

655
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,160
not that he would ever replace Michael Porter Junior. But

656
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,759
I think the Nuggets because reasonably decide like, well, we

657
00:30:09,839 --> 00:30:13,480
prefer like athleticism on the defensive end around Yokic, because

658
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,039
if they get moving away from the ball, we don't

659
00:30:15,039 --> 00:30:16,960
care as much as honestly, I think they've telegraphed that

660
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,000
a couple times already anyway. So but I think the answer,

661
00:30:20,119 --> 00:30:22,799
especially with the way that he's been playing, has to

662
00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:25,559
be Michael Porter, who's turned what over the past three

663
00:30:25,599 --> 00:30:27,519
seasons and like the most one of the most durable

664
00:30:27,519 --> 00:30:27,960
players in.

665
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,319
Speaker 3: The right Yeah, I would have thought, I think too,

666
00:30:30,359 --> 00:30:33,200
like to be consistent from my my Boston Jalen Brown

667
00:30:33,319 --> 00:30:37,079
thing is like in trade stuff aside, like Denver's trying

668
00:30:37,079 --> 00:30:40,759
to win a championship now and and Porter just matters

669
00:30:40,799 --> 00:30:43,480
more in that effort. So if we shrink what future means,

670
00:30:43,519 --> 00:30:45,640
then it's Porter quite easily for me.

671
00:30:46,119 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 2: Does Porter have a K like does it? Is there

672
00:30:48,039 --> 00:30:50,799
any combination like would you pick Porter over Gordon or

673
00:30:50,799 --> 00:30:51,759
Porter over Murray?

674
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 3: No? I don't think so. I think I mean no,

675
00:30:56,759 --> 00:30:58,759
I don't think so. I think Murray as the second

676
00:30:59,039 --> 00:31:03,039
secondary creator is more critical than porter shooting, and I

677
00:31:03,079 --> 00:31:06,839
think Gordon's defense and versatility is like also more critical

678
00:31:07,079 --> 00:31:09,200
than the shooting. If we're just talking like over you know,

679
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:10,640
between now and the finals.

680
00:31:11,039 --> 00:31:14,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, it'd be different if like Denver's back, because I

681
00:31:14,519 --> 00:31:16,039
think you could say Peyton Watson might be able to

682
00:31:16,079 --> 00:31:17,880
replace a lot of what Eric Gordon does, but like

683
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,960
you're not going to replace the backup five minutes that

684
00:31:20,079 --> 00:31:22,599
Eric Gordon can log when it matters most and among

685
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,640
other things of course. But yeah, that ended up being

686
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,039
a little bit easier than I thought it was gonna be.

687
00:31:27,079 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: Who got next?

688
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 3: We got the Pistons, And we may go off script

689
00:31:30,279 --> 00:31:34,160
here a little bit, but let's discuss Asar Thompson and

690
00:31:34,279 --> 00:31:35,960
Jaden Ivy first.

691
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,599
Speaker 2: In theory, the answer should be Jade and Ivy, because

692
00:31:39,599 --> 00:31:41,880
what do the Detroit Pistons need the most is like

693
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,880
that sect that the scorer who's not Kake Cunningham, the

694
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,480
passer who's not Kake Cunningham. And I think that stuff

695
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,119
in a vacuum trounces. Look at what Asar Thompson can

696
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,880
do on the defensive end. I'm still picking Asar Thompson

697
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,960
because now we've seen even more of what he can

698
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,359
do as a playmaker. If you want to get into oh,

699
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,279
he has an extra year left on his rookie scale.

700
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,480
But you could also say j and Ivy's not as

701
00:32:05,559 --> 00:32:08,319
redundant with anyone on the roster as a sar Thompson

702
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,400
might be redundant to Ron Holland when you're looking at

703
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,279
their limitations on the offensive end specifically, I would still

704
00:32:15,319 --> 00:32:18,240
go I, And this is might just be to how high.

705
00:32:18,119 --> 00:32:19,079
Speaker 1: I am on Aasar Thompson.

706
00:32:19,119 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 2: I just think he's the second most important player on

707
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,119
the rap the Pistons moving forward, so I would pick

708
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,680
him over j and Ivy. But because of j andn

709
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,039
Ivy's shot making capabilities, at least so far, he has

710
00:32:30,079 --> 00:32:32,079
a very clear pet. Like if you said Jay and Ivy,

711
00:32:32,119 --> 00:32:34,480
I totally understand where you'd be coming from.

712
00:32:34,839 --> 00:32:37,519
Speaker 3: So I think for me it almost comes down to,

713
00:32:39,119 --> 00:32:41,880
like I understand there's a theory of the Pistons now

714
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,279
based on how they've played lately, where it's Kid Cunningham

715
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,960
and a hillacious defense, and you can win a lot

716
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,000
of games that way, and I think that that gets

717
00:32:50,039 --> 00:32:53,559
you into the mid forties and maybe higher slightly higher

718
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,160
than that, like win total wise, But I think if

719
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,880
you really, if you want to go beyond that, then

720
00:33:00,039 --> 00:33:03,279
what you would need is someone like Ivy to have

721
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,279
a ceiling a little higher than Ivy seems to have

722
00:33:06,519 --> 00:33:08,720
like that type of player, like maybe, like I don't

723
00:33:08,759 --> 00:33:12,720
think Ivy is going to be a guy whose overall

724
00:33:12,759 --> 00:33:15,000
offensive game gets to the point where he's like, oh,

725
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,480
that guy is an All star. That's kind of what

726
00:33:17,519 --> 00:33:19,640
the Pistons would need. I think if you want to

727
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,519
go fifty plus wins and we're talking you know, your

728
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,920
first or second seed in the conference type of thing.

729
00:33:25,599 --> 00:33:28,599
So if I'm putting like a lower, more realistic ceiling

730
00:33:28,599 --> 00:33:32,200
on it, cade Cunningham plus defense favors Thompson because Thompson

731
00:33:32,319 --> 00:33:35,000
is a guy I think short of like dominant big

732
00:33:35,039 --> 00:33:38,599
men who can be the reason your defense is like

733
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,839
a top ten outfit, and anything he gains offensively over

734
00:33:42,839 --> 00:33:45,839
the years is just gravy. So if does that make sense,

735
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,759
Like if you believe Ivy has a higher ceiling than

736
00:33:49,799 --> 00:33:53,519
I do, then you probably should pick Ivy or you know,

737
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,400
like that type of player would be the key, like

738
00:33:57,119 --> 00:33:59,160
we keep doing the Celtics, but it's just in my head,

739
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,359
like a J Brown to a Tatum like that kind

740
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,200
of secondary guy. I don't think Ivy's that, So it

741
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:07,319
has to be Thompson.

742
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 2: I I one of the rebukes that I would say

743
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,199
to the two of us, is are we too stuck

744
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:14,079
in the present, because I guess a lot of my

745
00:34:14,519 --> 00:34:16,719
I we might just be lower on Ivy than the consensus.

746
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,880
But even as he was when he was healthy and

747
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,679
had adapted more to this roster, this role, did you

748
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,400
ever feel like their offense was optimized at that point?

749
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 3: No, it was almost like, Okay, I can see the

750
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,880
outlines of how this might work. Like he's okay with

751
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,800
kid because he's making just enough catch and shoot threes

752
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,599
type of thing, and like when he's out there by

753
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:38,480
himself with no kid, he's not quite good enough. You

754
00:34:38,519 --> 00:34:41,280
could you could sort of imagine it, but I don't know.

755
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,400
I don't think I fully saw the vision.

756
00:34:44,079 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 2: And even just there's no support of like Jay and

757
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,440
no Ivey without Kaid, because I think part of what

758
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,239
you would want in that like set up is, oh,

759
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,920
he can like run things effectively when Kate's not on

760
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:55,320
the court, and we just don't have the evidence that

761
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,760
that's gonna happen either. Again, maybe we're prisoner of the

762
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,800
moment there, but I think so from the both of us.

763
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,480
Now they're four youngsters like of the non cunning hand

764
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,719
persuasion Jaye and Duran Ron Holland, Jade and Ivy SR.

765
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:07,119
Speaker 1: Thompson.

766
00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 2: How would you rank those guys in terms of their

767
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:10,679
importance to Detroit's future.

768
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 3: So Duran is the one that's so tough for me

769
00:35:14,159 --> 00:35:18,920
because if if you're the center on a team that's

770
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,320
playing really great defense over a decent stretch, like at

771
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,599
some point you have to we have to get off

772
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,119
my priors of like I just don't think Duran like

773
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,199
process is fast enough and is capable of being the

774
00:35:31,199 --> 00:35:36,119
centerpiece of a really good defense. So it's it's still

775
00:35:36,159 --> 00:35:39,800
a star first, obviously, I think I would probably have

776
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,320
Duran second. And that's while acknowledging like I just he's

777
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,480
not going to stretch. I don't know how much it

778
00:35:46,519 --> 00:35:49,719
matters that he shows flashes of passing. I just am

779
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,320
sort of starting to buy into he can be good

780
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,639
enough defensively to be a long term piece. And then

781
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,639
I guess it's like Ivy Holland, just as Holland as

782
00:36:00,679 --> 00:36:02,400
we just haven't seen enough. I don't have a strong

783
00:36:02,519 --> 00:36:04,960
enough opinion on on like what he's going to be,

784
00:36:05,039 --> 00:36:08,760
and there's a possibility he overlaps with either Ivy or

785
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,920
Thompson and just isn't as good as either of them.

786
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,039
So I don't know what what do you do with Duran?

787
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,119
Where are you on him? Now? I have him, I

788
00:36:15,199 --> 00:36:17,480
have him last, Okay, tell me why, because I don't

789
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,480
think that's a I don't think that's necessarily the wrong

790
00:36:19,519 --> 00:36:20,199
place to put him.

791
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:25,559
Speaker 2: Look, their third in point slot per possession since January first,

792
00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:27,719
and they're tenth now overall in the season, So you

793
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,559
have to take the defense seriously. They are better defensively

794
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,639
when Jalen Durn's off the court. And I think for me,

795
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:36,880
we've definitely seen the flashes of what he can do

796
00:36:37,119 --> 00:36:40,440
even away from the basket, around the basket, but I

797
00:36:40,559 --> 00:36:43,599
just don't know, like we've never seen it. It feels

798
00:36:43,639 --> 00:36:46,320
like for more than let's say, two months at a time.

799
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,920
And if you, I guess, if you think that's enough, okay, fine,

800
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,679
But I don't like he's not an A plus rim protector.

801
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,119
He's not like even a deterrent like where like these

802
00:36:57,559 --> 00:37:01,119
players are veering away from drives, pistons are like opponents

803
00:37:01,119 --> 00:37:02,920
are shooting better at the rim when Jalen Durn's on

804
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,480
the floor. So I think that I don't know that

805
00:37:06,519 --> 00:37:08,480
he's necessarily the benefactor of like We'll look at some

806
00:37:08,519 --> 00:37:10,760
of the perimeter talent, like including a Star Thompson down around.

807
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,239
I'm looking at the look at the improvement that Kate

808
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,280
Cunningham has made defensively this year, So I have him last,

809
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:16,719
I would have.

810
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: I would go Asar Thompson.

811
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 2: I would put Jade and Ivy because even if you

812
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,960
think he's not gonna be like the number two or

813
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,320
that player we're talking about, you want to slide alongside

814
00:37:26,559 --> 00:37:28,920
like what Dennis Shooter is doing now, but you want

815
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:30,920
that player to be way better than Dennis Shooter. You're

816
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,199
probably trading Jade and Ivy as part of the package

817
00:37:33,199 --> 00:37:34,920
for that player, So I would keep him there as well.

818
00:37:35,199 --> 00:37:37,760
Then I'll go Ron Holland, which I think is like

819
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:39,880
with you and we we said this, maybe it was

820
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,559
on the rookie All rookie teams we were talking about.

821
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:44,880
I don't have a strong impression of Ron Holland just yet,

822
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:46,960
but there's still the mystery box appeal there and there's

823
00:37:47,039 --> 00:37:50,440
like there's limitations on offense, there's also feel as well,

824
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,400
And so I go Ron Holland third, and then Jalen

825
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,119
durn fourth. But even that that could be counterintuitive because

826
00:37:56,119 --> 00:37:59,360
do you see and we've seen it some this year,

827
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,599
but like, do you see like a reasonable pathway to

828
00:38:01,679 --> 00:38:06,559
Detroit playing Asar Thompson and Ron Holland a bunch that

829
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,760
like they're they're they're a staple together And so if

830
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,679
the answers no, then like maybe I should be readjusting

831
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,679
my order. But it would be a sarr J and

832
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:16,000
Ivy one and two for me for sure.

833
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 3: That's the hard part because of those three of Thompson,

834
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,159
Holland and Duran. What I what I feel pretty good

835
00:38:22,199 --> 00:38:24,920
about is like all three. I don't think just because

836
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,559
of this the shooting, like if if if Duran were

837
00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:29,519
someone who could space a little bit, maybe you get

838
00:38:29,519 --> 00:38:33,719
away with two more wings that don't really space. It's

839
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,239
it's yeah, I don't know. I have such a hard

840
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,360
time with Duran. He's been one of the most like confounding.

841
00:38:38,559 --> 00:38:41,480
He's still he's still really young for his experience level.

842
00:38:41,519 --> 00:38:43,800
He's got he's got the frame, he's got the athleticism.

843
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,840
There's just like a lot to like, uh, but there's

844
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:48,840
a lot not to like. I think I think maybe

845
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:53,039
this is more for me, you know, Ivy, Ivy's player type.

846
00:38:53,199 --> 00:38:56,679
I think maybe I'm not in love with unless he

847
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,960
just dramatically expands his game or becomes a super efficient shooter.

848
00:39:00,039 --> 00:39:01,880
And then Holland is like, I just I don't know yet.

849
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:03,599
You know, he plays really hard. I like a lot

850
00:39:03,599 --> 00:39:05,360
of what he does on both ends, but I don't.

851
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:06,320
I don't have more than that.

852
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,559
Speaker 2: For the most part, I know Darren's about to get paid. Uh,

853
00:39:09,599 --> 00:39:11,360
and then Ivy will be extension eligible.

854
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: These are good problems to have, at least next up

855
00:39:15,559 --> 00:39:17,039
the goal. This is made good.

856
00:39:17,079 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 2: But if I did steal one from you, at least

857
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,960
it allowed me to throw this one to you. The

858
00:39:21,039 --> 00:39:25,960
Golden State Warriors Jonathan Kaminga or Brandon Pajemski.

859
00:39:26,199 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 3: H, I don't it's surprised.

860
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,199
Speaker 1: I don't know if this was Grant Hughes.

861
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 3: It's not that hard for me. I I think Pajemski

862
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,920
can be a key player on a good team.

863
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:39,519
Speaker 1: Uh.

864
00:39:39,559 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 3: And maybe a little more than that. I think he's

865
00:39:42,519 --> 00:39:48,079
just gonna be limited by athleticism, by size, by his

866
00:39:48,519 --> 00:39:52,559
ability or lack thereof to create his own shots. UH.

867
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:57,119
I think Kaminga is still he's been talking about confounding like.

868
00:39:57,679 --> 00:40:03,199
I think Cominga's size and and athleticism and like has

869
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,199
a couple real offensive knacks that you just like you

870
00:40:06,519 --> 00:40:08,480
have them or you don't in terms of like his

871
00:40:08,599 --> 00:40:12,000
downhill burst and his lift and his quickness for a

872
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,000
player that size, like that's just you know, ninety ninth

873
00:40:15,039 --> 00:40:19,440
percentile stuff. I think it's Kaminga. I think it just

874
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,559
sort of it sort of has to be because he's

875
00:40:22,639 --> 00:40:25,239
also sort of a real pivot point player, not just

876
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,519
this season when he eventually does come back supposed to

877
00:40:27,519 --> 00:40:30,440
happen on this road trip from his ankle injury, and

878
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,760
then you have the huge decision on him this summer,

879
00:40:33,119 --> 00:40:35,360
where is he your fourth guy that you're gonna pay

880
00:40:35,519 --> 00:40:38,159
thirty plus million? And if he's not, what are you

881
00:40:38,199 --> 00:40:40,800
getting for him? In best case scenario sign and trade?

882
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,800
And it's not just he takes another offer sheet you

883
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,199
don't match, you get nothing. So he's a pivot point

884
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,199
in that regard to pa Jemski's this is his second year.

885
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,519
They don't have to make a decision yet, and the

886
00:40:50,559 --> 00:40:53,719
ceiling's just lower for Pajemski floors higher, ceilings lower. So

887
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,599
that's that's where I land on Cominga.

888
00:40:55,679 --> 00:40:58,119
Speaker 2: So I would go with Pods and the free agency

889
00:40:58,159 --> 00:41:01,360
with Kaminga doesn't actually bother me. Too much, because I

890
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,079
don't think they're gonna sign and trade him just because

891
00:41:03,079 --> 00:41:05,760
base share compensation would make that all sorts of complicated,

892
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,800
and they're not gonna let him walk for nothing. And

893
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:09,199
it's like, I don't view it as I guess as

894
00:41:09,199 --> 00:41:12,039
big of a pivot point as you do. I more

895
00:41:12,079 --> 00:41:15,559
appreciate that there's a median outcome from Brandon Pajemski where

896
00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:18,599
he's still super useful without needing to be a featured

897
00:41:18,639 --> 00:41:22,159
part of the offense. And I don't know, Uh, this

898
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:26,039
is my interpret John Thinkuminga's highs have been incredibly high,

899
00:41:26,119 --> 00:41:28,480
and like I probably don't give like his skills when

900
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,559
he's working off the dribble, putting pressure on the rim

901
00:41:30,639 --> 00:41:32,239
when he is on, Like I'm probably not giving him

902
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:36,960
enough credit there, But I don't know like how scalable

903
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:38,840
he is to and won't get the answer like how

904
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,199
he fits next to Jimmy Butler. But you have Butler

905
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,719
talking about like, yeah, he can really guard man and

906
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,000
I have not seen that consistently enough And so you're

907
00:41:47,039 --> 00:41:50,119
not plugging play to me at either end of the floor.

908
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,159
It's cool that you have this ninety nine percentile outcome

909
00:41:53,199 --> 00:41:56,599
of stardom but like, I would rather the guy who

910
00:41:56,599 --> 00:41:58,880
I think can be a key player and we had

911
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,559
to be rich from just Scord said that Projeensy's going

912
00:42:01,639 --> 00:42:03,400
to be the fourth best player on a really good team.

913
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:08,360
I would rather take that guarantee than like, oh, Kaminga

914
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,599
could be this. And part of that is I guess

915
00:42:10,599 --> 00:42:12,400
my own bias. I don't think Kaminga could be that

916
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,079
because I just haven't seen it right.

917
00:42:14,199 --> 00:42:16,679
Speaker 3: No, it's kind of like if we were just hey,

918
00:42:16,679 --> 00:42:19,159
we got the we I'm viewing it this way. We

919
00:42:19,199 --> 00:42:21,679
have the number one pick in the draft. Do you

920
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,519
want the guy the four year he wasn't this, but

921
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,440
just go with it, the four year senior who thinks

922
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,360
the game great. You know this guy is going to

923
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,480
be maybe a starter for a long time, like maybe

924
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,519
even a plus start, if certainly by plus minus he's

925
00:42:35,519 --> 00:42:38,400
gonna be a big time plus starter. He's never going

926
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,599
to be a star. Or do you want the guy

927
00:42:41,039 --> 00:42:44,360
that might be out of the league in three years

928
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,559
or also might be a five time All Star. And

929
00:42:48,639 --> 00:42:50,400
so I'm just going like, give me the upside and

930
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,159
I'll just grit my teeth and hope he hits it,

931
00:42:52,199 --> 00:42:54,599
because that is really what the Kaminga thing is, And I.

932
00:42:54,519 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 2: Guess what's interesting here for you to say that then though,

933
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,599
because of the way you talked about Boston, shouldn't Golden

934
00:42:59,639 --> 00:43:01,719
State Steph Curry's not getting a younger they just traded

935
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:02,280
for Jimmy Butler.

936
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 1: Shouldn't they shouldn't the future be the same for them.

937
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:11,159
Speaker 3: I think that the if Kaminga can be, I think

938
00:43:11,199 --> 00:43:14,559
Kaminga's capacity even this season to be a ceiling razor

939
00:43:14,639 --> 00:43:17,639
is higher than Pajemski's is, you know what I mean,

940
00:43:17,679 --> 00:43:19,960
Like I forget the whole Like what's he gonna look

941
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,840
like at twenty seven or twenty five. It's like there's

942
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:26,000
a version of the Warriors that is just better. If

943
00:43:26,039 --> 00:43:29,519
Kaminga pops, then it is this year than it is

944
00:43:29,559 --> 00:43:32,599
if pajemskis. Because Pajemski right now is playing about as

945
00:43:32,639 --> 00:43:34,920
well as he can play, I think, and he's playing

946
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,000
very well. I just think the ceiling even in a

947
00:43:37,039 --> 00:43:42,639
short term situation, is higher with with Kaminga being the

948
00:43:42,639 --> 00:43:43,760
best version of himself.

949
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: We talked about this last.

950
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 2: Week, so I don't want to believe it, but if

951
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:47,599
you had zero in on one thing, then like what

952
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,360
is the key to Johnathan Kaminga coming back being reintegrated.

953
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,639
It's like, oh wow, he's elevated the ceiling of it.

954
00:43:53,639 --> 00:43:56,199
It's like, what is the like, what is the part

955
00:43:56,199 --> 00:43:57,679
of his game that needs to be most consistent or

956
00:43:57,679 --> 00:44:00,599
even just augmented relative to the the team looks with

957
00:44:00,639 --> 00:44:01,599
Jimmy Butler now.

958
00:44:01,599 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 3: And this will feel like too like broad of an answer,

959
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,760
but I would say leveraging his athleticism to like benefit

960
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,360
the team in ways that don't involve scoring. So that

961
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,400
means like being the on ball guy that because if

962
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,320
you don't think, I don't. Butler's a good defender, but

963
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,480
it's like he needs Cominga needs to be like the

964
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,880
Wiggins role defensively, where it's like go get Katim, go

965
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,719
get Luca. Rebounding, there's no reason Cominga can't be like

966
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:27,960
an elite rebounder, especially now when.

967
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 2: It's pretty clear their core lineups are never going to

968
00:44:30,039 --> 00:44:30,960
have a real center in it.

969
00:44:31,079 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 3: Right running the floor, you're hey, guess what, You're also

970
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:35,800
faster than everyone that's on the floor with you, like

971
00:44:36,039 --> 00:44:39,119
all that kind of stuff, because I don't think, and again,

972
00:44:39,159 --> 00:44:41,920
this is the central like issue with him, is he

973
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,519
wants to be on the ball creating his own shots

974
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,119
and that just like now that Butler's there too, Like

975
00:44:47,199 --> 00:44:50,360
that just isn't it? Maybe in spurts, but he's got

976
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,079
to be the guy that dominates the game athletically in

977
00:44:53,159 --> 00:44:57,639
ways that and be like a a scorer who is

978
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:01,000
scoring off of like hard cuts, running the floor and

979
00:45:01,119 --> 00:45:04,320
offensive rebounds and stuff. Any spacing he provides would be great,

980
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,800
especially because of the lineups they're gonna play. But you

981
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:08,199
know what I mean, like that kind of thing. It

982
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,320
just leverage your athletic use what you got, you know,

983
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:11,119
to be helpful.

984
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:13,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's actually really good.

985
00:45:13,199 --> 00:45:15,159
Speaker 2: I probably would have just defaulted to the cookie cutter

986
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,159
three point shooting because now you have Jimmy Butler and

987
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,599
Draymond Green and your most important lineup. The bonus one

988
00:45:20,599 --> 00:45:22,719
here might be the more important one. Quinton Post or

989
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:23,400
Steph Curry.

990
00:45:23,519 --> 00:45:24,159
Speaker 1: It's more important.

991
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 3: I think Quinn Post is probably shooting a higher percentage

992
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,880
from three. So you've you've sorted out Dan, do you.

993
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 2: We were talking about how numb we can beat to

994
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,800
Steph Curry. You know, he drops fifty six against the

995
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,599
Magic the other night. You know, he tied the single

996
00:45:36,679 --> 00:45:39,679
highest game true shooting percentage for anyone who dropped fifty

997
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:40,800
five in a game.

998
00:45:40,639 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 3: On it felt like it felt like he couldn't miss

999
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,000
for really on tough, tough shots too, for a lot

1000
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:48,800
of those. Do you know My takeaway was when I

1001
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,079
like saw that, which is, oh he didn't like he

1002
00:45:51,079 --> 00:45:53,400
didn't do that already, Like he was right, Yeah, I

1003
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:55,920
can't believe somebody else. Well, it was like peak Harden.

1004
00:45:56,199 --> 00:45:58,079
So that's the only other guy that could.

1005
00:45:57,880 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: Get Glenn Rice fifth.

1006
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 3: How about that cold shoot it?

1007
00:46:01,639 --> 00:46:03,519
Speaker 1: We're onto the Houston Rockets. Who we got there?

1008
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:05,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is another one we could have gone like

1009
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:09,239
five deep. Maybe this is uh A'men Thompson or Alburn

1010
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:10,639
shangoun what do we got?

1011
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 2: Am I being too caught up in the hype if

1012
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:17,920
I say it's Amen Thompson, I don't think so because

1013
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,199
I think as of right now, Shane gun is more

1014
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,760
important if you want to orchestrate a more well rounded offense.

1015
00:46:25,599 --> 00:46:28,599
But like that offense isn't necessarily great with him doing that,

1016
00:46:28,679 --> 00:46:30,840
and so then give me everything else that Amen Thompson

1017
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,800
already is plus what we still think that he could be.

1018
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,679
And that's I'm not taking in. Imagine if he hits

1019
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,440
like corner threes or something. I'm just more so like

1020
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,719
we've seen some of the mid range floater stuff. We

1021
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,920
know what he could do defensively. I don't know if

1022
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,559
he'll ever be the capslock for general, who is running

1023
00:46:47,599 --> 00:46:49,800
these more deliberate sets and if you want to go

1024
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,119
heavy pick and roll, I don't think. I don't think

1025
00:46:52,159 --> 00:46:54,840
he'll ever be that guy. But like he could definitely

1026
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,599
be a y honest level of playmaker of getting going downhill,

1027
00:46:57,599 --> 00:46:59,199
whether it's with or without a ball screen.

1028
00:46:59,599 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: So I think it's him.

1029
00:47:02,079 --> 00:47:04,559
Speaker 3: I think it's weird to say this because like there's

1030
00:47:04,599 --> 00:47:07,440
definitely such stuff right now that Thompson cannot do, which

1031
00:47:07,519 --> 00:47:11,960
is to say, like shoot accurately. But Shanngoon I feel

1032
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,960
like like if the if, the if the spacing is

1033
00:47:15,039 --> 00:47:19,239
never a threat, then I just don't know if he's

1034
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:24,440
a good enough defensively to get away from being a paint.

1035
00:47:24,559 --> 00:47:26,800
You know, I don't know. I think it's Thompson. I

1036
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,679
just feel like Shanguon has limitations that make it a

1037
00:47:30,679 --> 00:47:34,440
little harder to see him as a core piece of

1038
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,000
a great team, which is tough because like he's the

1039
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,480
core piece of a really really good team today and

1040
00:47:39,519 --> 00:47:41,880
he's in his early twenties, and so like what why

1041
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:43,840
are we for clothes? Does that you know what I mean?

1042
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,360
Do you just I just see, like, A, there's just

1043
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,119
a few things that he's not going to be great

1044
00:47:48,159 --> 00:47:51,039
at that. Maybe I think he's better than like Sabonis

1045
00:47:51,159 --> 00:47:54,000
right now, but like it's the same kind of thought

1046
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,599
of where it's like, yeah, he's a great passer, he

1047
00:47:56,639 --> 00:47:58,320
can be a hub, he can score on the post,

1048
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:00,280
but he's not going to space and I don't love

1049
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,000
him defending anything but centers, and so like where does

1050
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:03,559
that leave you?

1051
00:48:04,519 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's but it feels almost insulting to not pick

1052
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:09,760
him when I mean that he made the coaches picked

1053
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,079
him as the All Star of this team. Interesting that

1054
00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:15,519
you're just like kind of casually saying Shangun is better

1055
00:48:15,519 --> 00:48:18,239
than Sabonis. I don't know that I'm there defensively, sure,

1056
00:48:18,599 --> 00:48:20,760
but I would be curious see what Sabonis looks like

1057
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,599
if he had the talent in front of him defensively

1058
00:48:23,639 --> 00:48:27,079
that H has right now. Because I think Sabonis is

1059
00:48:27,119 --> 00:48:30,320
a scorer I think is way better overall is a score.

1060
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,599
Speaker 3: You don't think zach Lavine and DeMar Derozen are comparable

1061
00:48:34,679 --> 00:48:38,079
to Tari Eason and Aman Thompson and Dylan Brooks. Defensively,

1062
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:39,400
who would you.

1063
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 1: Have picked if I if we went with Reed Shepherd

1064
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:42,280
and Jabari Smith?

1065
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 3: Oh wow, Uh, if I gotta if I'm gonna be

1066
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,719
consistent with like the floor ceiling thing, I think I

1067
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,199
might have gone Shepherd. I assume you would have gone Shepherd.

1068
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,199
I think Smith's gonna be a great starter, awesome defender,

1069
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,599
but is gonna be a spot shooter for the most part.

1070
00:49:00,159 --> 00:49:02,079
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, we know how I feel about

1071
00:49:02,119 --> 00:49:03,360
Reachepper Reacht.

1072
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 2: I mean, if you're looking at this season, there is

1073
00:49:05,079 --> 00:49:07,760
no like the answer is Jabbari Smith junior. But you also,

1074
00:49:08,119 --> 00:49:10,280
if you think Shanguon's going to be around long term,

1075
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,880
anything Thompson's going to be around long term, you get

1076
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,519
into some interesting like is it Jabari.

1077
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: Smith or shang Gun at that point.

1078
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 2: I know a lot of people framed it coming into

1079
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:20,599
the season, Oh, it's Tari or Jabbari, And it's like, well,

1080
00:49:20,599 --> 00:49:23,840
it's not really that, because Tari can play more positions,

1081
00:49:24,039 --> 00:49:26,519
and I think even as good as he is, it

1082
00:49:26,559 --> 00:49:29,400
doesn't it feel like because of what Jabari Smith can

1083
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,880
theoretically do offensively that if you were negotiating extensions which

1084
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:34,840
you will be not you, but the Rockets will be

1085
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,280
this summer. Don't you think Jabari will end up getting

1086
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,440
more in an extension than Tari Easton, who's just considered

1087
00:49:39,519 --> 00:49:41,960
more of a specialist for sure.

1088
00:49:42,199 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 3: I think I think you just it's it's a fit thing.

1089
00:49:45,559 --> 00:49:47,880
One like if you if you let Smith get to

1090
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,039
a point where somebody else is offering him. It's like

1091
00:49:50,559 --> 00:49:53,199
the field of teams that he makes sense for is

1092
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,079
thirty and and they would all view him as a

1093
00:49:56,079 --> 00:49:59,559
potential starter, and Easton is just he's not He doesn't

1094
00:49:59,599 --> 00:50:03,239
have the the true like three aspect and that I

1095
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,840
don't know, Like I think Eastan's really good, but I

1096
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:06,559
just he's.

1097
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 2: A role guy, right Yeah, Indiana Pacers, we have this

1098
00:50:11,559 --> 00:50:13,440
is the this is the obligatory one.

1099
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: Jaris Walker, benedicmathern Uh.

1100
00:50:18,159 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 3: I think it's matherin that's a short for this year.

1101
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,360
And then you know, look, I think it's it's well documented.

1102
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:28,960
I just I don't I don't love the Matheren player type.

1103
00:50:29,079 --> 00:50:32,119
I think he is is not like a helpful team

1104
00:50:32,199 --> 00:50:35,320
offensive player. He's an incredible individual scorer. I just don't

1105
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,079
like the fit of him in the offense generally just

1106
00:50:38,119 --> 00:50:40,920
the way he plays. He slows things down too much,

1107
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,559
like all that stuff. Not a not an elite defender.

1108
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:45,760
I still go with him just because Walker is like

1109
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:46,760
what is what is?

1110
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:47,199
Speaker 1: What?

1111
00:50:47,199 --> 00:50:48,519
Speaker 3: What's jaris Walker gonna do?

1112
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:48,800
Speaker 1: Like?

1113
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 3: What type of player is this? If I had a

1114
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:52,480
great sense of that, maybe I'd have a different opinion.

1115
00:50:52,519 --> 00:50:53,039
Speaker 1: I just don't.

1116
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:53,760
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1117
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:57,079
Speaker 2: And the pathway to him being that player on India

1118
00:50:57,119 --> 00:50:59,280
is who does he how many people does he have

1119
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,519
to outplay at this point? So if you want to

1120
00:51:01,559 --> 00:51:03,480
view him through terms of like a wing forward, it's

1121
00:51:03,519 --> 00:51:06,639
because you've gotta be better than topping and we knowam

1122
00:51:06,679 --> 00:51:08,000
is gonna lock a ton of minutes at the four.

1123
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:10,079
And then it's well like Nie Smith has wing minutes

1124
00:51:10,079 --> 00:51:12,800
and Mathren has done more and with his wing minutes

1125
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,239
as well. So I do think the answer is mathin

1126
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,599
pretty easily right now. If I would have said Andrew

1127
00:51:18,639 --> 00:51:20,639
Nemhart and Myles Turner, which I did, when from our

1128
00:51:20,639 --> 00:51:22,400
list of choices, who would you have gone with there?

1129
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:28,159
Speaker 3: Hmm, that's tough. Like so the free agency aspect that

1130
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:31,719
we assume Turner is going to be back, I.

1131
00:51:31,639 --> 00:51:33,800
Speaker 2: Think way that would but that would be the pathway

1132
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,280
that jars Walker becoming more important than Mathron is. If

1133
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:38,880
Turner leaves, you have to slide see aakam and topping

1134
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,159
up basically, or you're just you know, you're inserting like

1135
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:43,960
minimum big X here.

1136
00:51:44,599 --> 00:51:47,519
Speaker 1: Uh So, like that would be the path to Walker,

1137
00:51:47,599 --> 00:51:49,519
like being able to have more minutes in the front court.

1138
00:51:50,039 --> 00:51:53,119
Speaker 3: I think it's got to be Turner just because of

1139
00:51:53,199 --> 00:51:58,079
the spacing he provides and the rim protection. Nemhard though,

1140
00:51:58,199 --> 00:52:01,800
is such a good fit with Halliburton. That's why he's

1141
00:52:02,159 --> 00:52:05,079
you know, taking over a starting job because of the defense,

1142
00:52:05,119 --> 00:52:09,440
because of the facilitation. I just think I think it's

1143
00:52:09,519 --> 00:52:12,400
I think Turner does enough things that like you just

1144
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,480
can't get in replacements that I think it's probably him.

1145
00:52:16,599 --> 00:52:19,280
Speaker 2: Isn't it We were to use the word numb again.

1146
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:21,480
Isn't it weird how we're numb to this idea of

1147
00:52:21,519 --> 00:52:23,960
like the floor spacing rim protectors, Like, yeah, everyone wants

1148
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:26,400
one of those, but there's actually still so few, right,

1149
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,239
It's like so we tossed those terms around, like you

1150
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:31,320
could just find those guys anywhere, and you still can't.

1151
00:52:31,519 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I'd like it if Turner were a

1152
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:37,239
little better defensively and a little better of a rebounder,

1153
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,559
but he truly is this a stretch five that you

1154
00:52:40,599 --> 00:52:44,039
know can block shots? And there's just like who are

1155
00:52:44,079 --> 00:52:46,000
we still throwing brook Lopez in there? And then who

1156
00:52:46,039 --> 00:52:46,559
else is it?

1157
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:49,599
Speaker 2: So I actually think the answer is nam Hard, okay,

1158
00:52:49,679 --> 00:52:52,119
because you mentioned it alrighty, because of how perfect the

1159
00:52:52,159 --> 00:52:55,039
fit is next to Halliburton. And I think even you

1160
00:52:55,079 --> 00:52:58,519
can say he shoulders even an outsize role defensively because

1161
00:52:58,519 --> 00:53:00,760
of what the Pacers look like like the overall wing

1162
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,960
defense outside of Neesmith. But even if you get a

1163
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,280
better wing defender in there, like you still like he

1164
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:08,480
is so perfect next to Halliburton?

1165
00:53:08,519 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 1: Who is your future?

1166
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:12,280
Speaker 2: And I guess I'm also I don't think they'll ever

1167
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,920
do this, but like could they look at it and

1168
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,760
say we're getting too expensive. We're gonna sign a cheaper

1169
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:19,880
big and Siakam, we'll play more five minutes and like

1170
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,880
that they might view Turners more expendable where it's yes,

1171
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:28,440
is it harder to replace Turner's archetype than Nemhard's. Probably,

1172
00:53:29,079 --> 00:53:32,280
but Nemhard is more important to I think your most

1173
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:34,679
important player, if that makes any sense.

1174
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 1: But so that's why I'd pick him.

1175
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:37,760
Speaker 3: No, that that's totally fair.

1176
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,199
Speaker 1: Give me the Clippers Grant, duh.

1177
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 3: You can have him James Harden or Kawhi Leonard.

1178
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:44,400
Speaker 1: I abstain.

1179
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,320
Speaker 3: I use it beats the Zobats.

1180
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 2: So I think, oh, it's Kawhi Leonard. He's under contract

1181
00:53:53,519 --> 00:53:57,360
for longer, and I think that that kind of defines

1182
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:01,400
their direction more than anything else. Is if Kawhi Leonard's available,

1183
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:03,360
if we said he just play he's healthy for the

1184
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,119
rest of this year, you might say that the Clippers

1185
00:54:06,159 --> 00:54:08,440
have what I mean, I think they do actually right now,

1186
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,920
have top seven championship ods or something. Grant, So he's

1187
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,760
your line. You're not gonna say that if he's not Hell,

1188
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:17,360
he's your line to title contention, as scrappy as they've

1189
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,199
been without him. But then if you're looking to pivot,

1190
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,000
James Harden doesn't do anything for you, like, yeah, he

1191
00:54:23,079 --> 00:54:25,679
might leave in free agency if he opts out or could.

1192
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:27,519
I'm sure you could move him, but you're not gonna

1193
00:54:27,519 --> 00:54:29,320
get a haul. I'm not saying you're gonna get a

1194
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,199
Hall for Kawhi Leonard, but as if the trade deadline

1195
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:34,320
was today and you were moving both of these players.

1196
00:54:34,639 --> 00:54:36,440
Don't you think you would still get more for Kawhi

1197
00:54:36,559 --> 00:54:39,360
Leonard than James Harden, even with the longer contract and

1198
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:41,960
the questions about his health. And I hate I'll make

1199
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:43,920
it clear. I think it was kind of ridiculous that

1200
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:45,559
James Harden made the All Star Game this year. But

1201
00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:48,320
I do think that James Harden the durability, the stuff

1202
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:49,159
that he provides that no.

1203
00:54:49,159 --> 00:54:51,280
Speaker 1: One else does on this team. He's been good. So

1204
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,159
I just want to before we have the Hardened stands

1205
00:54:53,199 --> 00:54:53,880
getting angry.

1206
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,119
Speaker 3: No, there aren't a lot of guys that could have

1207
00:54:57,199 --> 00:55:00,199
done for this Clippers team the specific things that they

1208
00:55:00,199 --> 00:55:03,079
needed that Harden has done so far. I think there's

1209
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:05,880
there's no dispute about that. Just like a super high

1210
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,440
usage like he's gonna make the offense as good as

1211
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:12,199
it can be with what's there. I still if I'm

1212
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:15,239
giving up trade packages, I'm giving up more for Leonard.

1213
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:20,360
Uh Like Harden, just we've talked about it. Hardened just

1214
00:55:20,519 --> 00:55:24,920
is someone that he he the fit is tough. If

1215
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,519
you have another real star, you're gonna play a certain way,

1216
00:55:28,559 --> 00:55:31,039
You're gonna have all these concessions that he you know,

1217
00:55:31,119 --> 00:55:33,480
he creates that you've got to cover for which the

1218
00:55:33,519 --> 00:55:37,239
defense has this year. That's that's been impressive. You know,

1219
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,119
the injuries are just gonna be what they are. But like,

1220
00:55:40,159 --> 00:55:41,920
I don't know, if you're betting on durability over the

1221
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:46,239
next three years, I think it's quite really that much

1222
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,320
bigger of a risk than Harden is, given the mileage

1223
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:50,800
of the age all that stuff. Probably, but I still

1224
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:52,519
go Kawhi there.

1225
00:55:52,559 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 2: This one was maybe the least interesting team to pick

1226
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:58,480
a combo from. I thought about Norman Powell versus Zubots,

1227
00:55:58,599 --> 00:56:01,719
but that's like it's Zuba just you want the All

1228
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:03,920
Defense center. I was trying to think of another one,

1229
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:06,880
Like if you really wanted Norman Powell or Bogdanovich, I

1230
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:08,519
think you would still go with Norman Palell, just but

1231
00:56:08,599 --> 00:56:10,000
you have to based off this season.

1232
00:56:10,039 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 1: Could I ask you, here's one Norman Poweller James Harden.

1233
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:13,639
Is that better one?

1234
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:17,280
Speaker 3: And then I think it's hardened weirdly because I think

1235
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:18,840
we both probably would have put Powell on the All

1236
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:20,880
Star team over him. But I think Harden is just

1237
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:24,320
such a He's just more of the engine type that

1238
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,239
we're talking pretty short time horizon for both of these guys,

1239
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,320
because they're both you know, at stages of their careers

1240
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:33,000
where you're not thinking about twenty thirty. I think it's

1241
00:56:33,039 --> 00:56:36,559
probably Harden, even though like I don't know, Powell's arguably

1242
00:56:36,599 --> 00:56:37,000
been better.

1243
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:39,760
Speaker 2: He's more plug and play though, and so it's just like,

1244
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:41,880
I don't know what time Rison they're working with, because

1245
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,199
when you willingly let Paul George leave, I'm not that

1246
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:46,960
it turned out so far that it looks like it

1247
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,679
was the right decision, But what was the play? What

1248
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:51,760
was their Their plan was not to, yeah, we're gonna

1249
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:52,920
be like one of the four best teams in the

1250
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:55,199
West and contend that was not the plan. No, the

1251
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:57,840
Lakers grant another team that wasn't really interesting. You can't

1252
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:01,199
put it's just Luca's the answer to everybody. But given

1253
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:05,639
the window within which they're operating, Lebron James or Austin Reeves.

1254
00:57:05,599 --> 00:57:08,719
Speaker 3: Yeah this you could overthink this. I think it's just Lebron.

1255
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,280
We were talking off air like he's playing like a

1256
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:15,440
top fifteen, top twenty guy right now. Sometimes looks better

1257
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:18,000
than that. Austin Reeves has been great. I'm really glad that,

1258
00:57:18,119 --> 00:57:20,840
like I never sold any Reeves stock. I thought the

1259
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:22,880
contract he signed was insanely cheap.

1260
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:26,199
Speaker 1: People thought it was bad, right, Well, who thought it was?

1261
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 3: It's crazy. He is capable of being a one or

1262
00:57:30,039 --> 00:57:33,760
a two, good shooter, can distribute, like just belongs on

1263
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:36,920
a good team. But it's Lebron, Like, it's just still Lebron,

1264
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,920
Like he's he's the guy that will be running the offense.

1265
00:57:40,159 --> 00:57:42,800
I mean, well, Luca's there, but like he's just he's

1266
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:44,599
just a better player now, and the Lakers care about

1267
00:57:44,639 --> 00:57:48,239
now if you want to stretch it out and be like, Okay,

1268
00:57:49,079 --> 00:57:52,320
Lebron's gone, like or like Lebron just won't be here

1269
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:54,400
as long as Reeves is and we're caring about like

1270
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:57,679
who fits with Luca, then well yeah, like Reeves just

1271
00:57:57,679 --> 00:57:59,760
got a little bit longer of a runway career wise,

1272
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,159
but it's still just it still has to be Lebron.

1273
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 2: And I think that they they acquiring Luca was a

1274
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:10,320
long term play, but like long term in today's NBA.

1275
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:12,519
Per Nico Harrison, Yeah, I don't even think he's wrong.

1276
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 1: Three to four.

1277
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 2: Years is like, well, Lebron's probably there for two thirds

1278
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,440
or half that anyway, so the answer would need to

1279
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:21,079
be him, and he's certainly the one who's more likely

1280
00:58:21,119 --> 00:58:23,000
to be trade. Reeves is more likely to be traded

1281
00:58:23,039 --> 00:58:25,320
if you want trying to fix the big man spot.

1282
00:58:25,719 --> 00:58:27,760
If you wanted to go real sicko, I did consider

1283
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:29,519
Ruey or Jared Vanderbilt.

1284
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:35,199
Speaker 3: Uh well, I think having Luca there makes Vanderbilt a

1285
00:58:35,239 --> 00:58:38,039
little bit more of a consideration, just because Vanderbilt is

1286
00:58:38,079 --> 00:58:38,800
a better defender.

1287
00:58:39,039 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 2: By the way, I'm running out of reason. There's some

1288
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:42,760
reasons to explain it, and I don't think it's going

1289
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:45,559
to sustain. But since Anthony Davis last played for the Lakers,

1290
00:58:45,639 --> 00:58:47,960
so January twenty ninth, that's before the trade of line,

1291
00:58:48,039 --> 00:58:50,559
they have the best defense in the NBA. They've been

1292
00:58:50,599 --> 00:58:53,800
like the small ball commos are working, They're swarming. There's

1293
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:56,320
no way I still think they have top five championship

1294
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,320
oods right now. I think that your borderline insane if

1295
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:01,760
you invest in that at top five championship ods, I

1296
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,159
can't get there. But they're continuing to prove me wrong.

1297
00:59:05,239 --> 00:59:07,239
Like there's a lot you look at their roster, there

1298
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:08,920
should be all these warning signs and maybe some of

1299
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:10,440
the stats, there should be all these warning signs that

1300
00:59:10,599 --> 00:59:11,679
just they just keep winning.

1301
00:59:12,079 --> 00:59:15,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I mean, yeah, they're differential. Is like it's

1302
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:17,000
not that of a team that belongs where they are

1303
00:59:17,039 --> 00:59:19,480
in the standings. I'll tell you that it's a credit

1304
00:59:19,519 --> 00:59:21,400
to the coaching staff. Can we say that that, like

1305
00:59:21,679 --> 00:59:24,320
the personnel is not elite defense personnel?

1306
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:25,039
Speaker 1: Uh?

1307
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 3: And so like they're just that they're packing the paint.

1308
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:30,440
They're turning it into a like make or miss thing. There,

1309
00:59:30,559 --> 00:59:35,320
Let's who do we always it's like New Orleans. We

1310
00:59:35,599 --> 00:59:37,559
had a long discussion about New Orleans, Like, man, how

1311
00:59:37,559 --> 00:59:39,559
are they're giving up all these threes? But like teams

1312
00:59:39,599 --> 00:59:41,440
are missing them? Are they doing something right? Like there's

1313
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:43,280
a little bit of that happening with the Lakers too.

1314
00:59:44,039 --> 00:59:46,960
But the process has been has been sound so far.

1315
00:59:47,679 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 2: It's still mind modeling because maybe Vanda would have had

1316
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:52,519
a case from one of their two best defenders, but

1317
00:59:52,639 --> 00:59:55,599
just given the availability issues, they traded their two best

1318
00:59:55,599 --> 00:59:57,599
defenders to get Suadach.

1319
00:59:58,079 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 3: That's why you just don't believe in it. Frank who

1320
01:00:00,559 --> 01:00:04,159
we got her, Memphis, we got the Grizzlies. Here. This

1321
01:00:04,239 --> 01:00:06,679
is we'll do a couple. Let's start at the high end.

1322
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:10,119
Jaron Jackson or John Morant.

1323
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 1: Is this a safe space?

1324
01:00:13,119 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 3: Yes?

1325
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 1: I think it's Jaron Jackson Jr.

1326
01:00:15,599 --> 01:00:18,719
Speaker 2: I mean, he's already the bigger anomaly if he's gonna

1327
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:21,599
end up with what his third top.

1328
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:23,199
Speaker 1: Three finishing defensive Player of the year.

1329
01:00:23,119 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 2: At least his second, and maybe is it's by default

1330
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:27,199
because we won't be available, but he might have two

1331
01:00:27,239 --> 01:00:30,480
defensive Player of the years. He's improved as a self

1332
01:00:30,519 --> 01:00:33,599
creating like offensive player. Still not the best passer, still

1333
01:00:33,599 --> 01:00:36,119
not the best rebounder, but he can play five. But

1334
01:00:36,119 --> 01:00:38,840
he could also play alongside literally any other big.

1335
01:00:39,199 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 1: He is the fulcrum of this defense.

1336
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:43,719
Speaker 2: And you still have questions about the playoff liability in

1337
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:47,519
the sense of, Okay, he's not gonna go check like

1338
01:00:47,679 --> 01:00:49,519
the I mean this would be NBA Finals, like Jason

1339
01:00:49,519 --> 01:00:51,599
Tate Like. You don't want him being the primary wing checker.

1340
01:00:51,639 --> 01:00:53,960
That's why you're gonna use Jalen Wells or even Vince

1341
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:55,039
Williams Junior.

1342
01:00:54,719 --> 01:00:55,119
Speaker 1: To do it.

1343
01:00:55,719 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 2: I just think that Joa. Morant is fantastic. He's a

1344
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:02,000
great playmaker. He can do amazing things on the court.

1345
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:05,880
The shooting outside shooting is still a concern. The availability

1346
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:08,639
is still going to be a concern, and I think

1347
01:01:08,639 --> 01:01:11,679
the Grizzlies like I'm not looking at them the way

1348
01:01:11,719 --> 01:01:13,440
that you were looking at Boston, where it's like just

1349
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:16,480
considering June. But to that point, even if you were

1350
01:01:17,159 --> 01:01:19,159
Jared Jackson, Junior still has a case. I think he

1351
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:23,519
unlocks the Grizzlies depth and versatility in ways that not

1352
01:01:23,679 --> 01:01:26,360
even John Morant does, and I do not. I'll make clear,

1353
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:28,760
I don't subscribe to the theory that people think that

1354
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:32,800
Grizzlies can just be better without John Morant, like maybe

1355
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:34,960
by way of trade, but like right now, you don't.

1356
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:36,639
Speaker 1: Just take JOA. Morant off the Grizzlies and they're better.

1357
01:01:36,679 --> 01:01:37,840
That's not what I'm saying.

1358
01:01:39,239 --> 01:01:42,079
Speaker 3: Man. I thought I was gonna go Jaw really easily,

1359
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:47,320
but I think especially I think I think the argument

1360
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:49,280
you make for Jaw, I'm gonna say Jackson, but I

1361
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:52,159
think the argument for that makes it harder for Jaw

1362
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:57,280
is that if you envision like the late stages of

1363
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,840
a of a playoff game, it is Moran that has

1364
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:03,360
the ball that may or may not be winning you

1365
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:06,000
the game like that. I think that's the role he plays,

1366
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:08,440
and I think he is good enough at that to

1367
01:02:08,519 --> 01:02:11,079
where it's like as good as Jackson has become as

1368
01:02:11,079 --> 01:02:13,800
an isolation score, as valuable as his spacing can be,

1369
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:16,000
that it comes and goes, and as great as he

1370
01:02:16,079 --> 01:02:20,079
is defensively, I think again I said this several times,

1371
01:02:20,119 --> 01:02:22,679
it's just harder to get the guy that Jaw can

1372
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:27,880
be and has been for Memphis. But I think the

1373
01:02:28,039 --> 01:02:33,159
just the overall value this season just says that Jackson

1374
01:02:33,199 --> 01:02:37,400
is a better player and secondly, players like Morant in

1375
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:39,519
so far as there have ever been any, I'm not

1376
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:42,159
super confident that there's going to be a long prime

1377
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:45,239
here because we're not even talking like the athleticism is

1378
01:02:45,239 --> 01:02:48,920
one thing, Like he's still just he does things you

1379
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:53,239
can't believe, like from a speed, body control change, the direction,

1380
01:02:54,039 --> 01:02:57,719
vertical leap stamp like that stuff is unbelievable. But he

1381
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:01,280
even he's not like like Westbrook, like sturdier, and even

1382
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:05,000
Derrick Rose was sturdier, and those guys got real different

1383
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:07,519
when they lost a little bit of athleticism. And I

1384
01:03:07,519 --> 01:03:09,679
think Moran is gonna be more susceptible to that because

1385
01:03:09,679 --> 01:03:13,760
he is so slight where it's like he does do

1386
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:15,199
you know what I mean, I don't want to use

1387
01:03:15,239 --> 01:03:17,760
I mean, he's already missed time significantly because of injury.

1388
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:20,320
But I don't want to say fragile, but it's like

1389
01:03:20,599 --> 01:03:23,880
this is a star that burns real, real hot and

1390
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:25,960
then is just not gonna burn for very long.

1391
01:03:26,079 --> 01:03:28,280
Speaker 2: I feel like, And what's interesting is I think I

1392
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:32,599
would like the less athletic version of John Morant more

1393
01:03:32,639 --> 01:03:35,199
than Westbrook or Rose, because I think he's a way

1394
01:03:35,239 --> 01:03:38,039
better like passer and that you needed to blow things

1395
01:03:38,039 --> 01:03:41,320
down and it's traditional, here's a ball screen, like we're

1396
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:42,639
gonna give you some space, and you have to be

1397
01:03:42,679 --> 01:03:44,400
more patient with your dribble. You're not trying to blow

1398
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:47,440
by guys. I just think he would be better what

1399
01:03:47,519 --> 01:03:49,440
I would actually disagree with when you're trying to make

1400
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:52,760
the case for John Morant, though I don't I actually

1401
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:55,960
think that, and maybe this is too broad away of

1402
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:58,679
looking at it. I think Jared Jackson Junior is harder

1403
01:03:58,679 --> 01:04:00,719
to replace them, Like what is harder to do right

1404
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:02,519
now to go out and get someone to run your

1405
01:04:02,559 --> 01:04:05,320
offense in a way that you think, Trent, let's run

1406
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:07,239
your half court offense in a way that translates to

1407
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:10,639
the playoffs, or get someone like Jaron Jackson Junior, who

1408
01:04:10,679 --> 01:04:13,199
is like, forget about defensive player of the year like

1409
01:04:13,239 --> 01:04:16,719
maybe one of the two or three most defense defensive

1410
01:04:16,719 --> 01:04:19,400
players in the league. And then yes, you're right, the

1411
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:22,320
shooting comes and goes with him, but still a floor

1412
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:25,800
spacing concept at least, and he can score like in

1413
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:28,599
ISOs now like getting going downhill like from dead stops.

1414
01:04:29,039 --> 01:04:33,119
Speaker 3: Do you it's a good point? Do you feel better?

1415
01:04:33,199 --> 01:04:35,239
I think maybe the Phoenix game the other night is

1416
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:36,960
like a little too much in my head where Morent

1417
01:04:37,079 --> 01:04:39,440
did look like the guy in a super high scoring

1418
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:41,320
game where he was just getting what he needed to.

1419
01:04:42,119 --> 01:04:46,559
Do you feel better about the last possession of the game,

1420
01:04:47,039 --> 01:04:50,480
the ball is in Jackson's hands at the top or

1421
01:04:50,559 --> 01:04:52,639
morants because I think it can be Jackson because he

1422
01:04:52,719 --> 01:04:55,079
is really hard to guard. But I just like, is

1423
01:04:55,679 --> 01:04:58,039
that what Memphis is going to do? Is it gonna

1424
01:04:58,079 --> 01:05:00,679
be like jaw you go space? Like I don't think so.

1425
01:05:01,039 --> 01:05:04,639
Speaker 2: No, because one John can't really space. He could move

1426
01:05:04,679 --> 01:05:06,440
without the ball for sure.

1427
01:05:06,239 --> 01:05:08,519
Speaker 1: You are right, though, because Jaron.

1428
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:11,239
Speaker 2: Jackson Junior is just not and he's had like he's

1429
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:13,199
doubled up his assist rate for his career in the

1430
01:05:13,239 --> 01:05:15,840
past two seasons, but he's not okay, Like yeah, like

1431
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:18,400
we know he's gonna make the right decision. No, if

1432
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:20,199
he's putting the ball on the deck, he's most likely

1433
01:05:20,199 --> 01:05:22,920
gonna look to score, and John Moran is just like

1434
01:05:23,559 --> 01:05:26,280
just different. So yeah, that's I just feel like, what

1435
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:28,599
would be if in the offseason, what's gonna be harder

1436
01:05:28,639 --> 01:05:30,559
for them to do? If this they're they're setting out

1437
01:05:30,559 --> 01:05:32,639
to do one of these two things, trading for a

1438
01:05:32,719 --> 01:05:35,880
John Morant replacement or trading for a Jaron Jackson junior replacement.

1439
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:38,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there isn't a Jaron Jackson replacement. Is

1440
01:05:39,159 --> 01:05:40,960
It's just what the point you're making, I think, Like,

1441
01:05:41,039 --> 01:05:43,320
so that's that we both went Jackson. I think Moran

1442
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:46,079
you can get a high end starter in Memphis, is

1443
01:05:46,119 --> 01:05:48,280
not a whole lot worse because they've looked, they've played

1444
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:50,639
without Moran a lot, and they're where they are in

1445
01:05:50,679 --> 01:05:53,559
the standings, and yeah, it's Jackson. But it's like, I

1446
01:05:53,599 --> 01:05:55,920
feel like most people are gonna disagree with that.

1447
01:05:57,280 --> 01:05:59,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they might just be if they're looking at

1448
01:05:59,880 --> 01:06:02,880
it the way that you framed it, of final possession

1449
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:05,079
of a playoff game, maybe that is the right way

1450
01:06:05,119 --> 01:06:07,039
to look at it. And we're just Jaron Jackson Junior

1451
01:06:07,079 --> 01:06:10,559
pilled at the moment our second Memphis Grizzlies one though

1452
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:13,880
Zach Edi or Jalen Wells great, I.

1453
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 3: Mean, Jalen Wells is about to run away with Rookie

1454
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:20,639
of the Year here. I think, uh, I I think

1455
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:26,280
I I think I go Edie, and it really is

1456
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:30,079
because I think we know what Wells is and this

1457
01:06:30,159 --> 01:06:33,480
is pretty much it. And Edie does have the like

1458
01:06:33,559 --> 01:06:36,159
he's shooting threes like. Edie does have the capacity to

1459
01:06:36,239 --> 01:06:38,800
join that group of guys that are like, you know,

1460
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:41,599
a huge presence in the lane and also can space

1461
01:06:41,639 --> 01:06:43,960
the floor. But I mean, Wells is just better today.

1462
01:06:44,039 --> 01:06:45,079
There's no doubt about that.

1463
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:49,519
Speaker 2: I go back and forth because isn't Jalen Wells even

1464
01:06:49,559 --> 01:06:52,519
if he's not going to be any better, that's just

1465
01:06:52,559 --> 01:06:55,960
the archetype that everyone wants. I think I'm gonna lean

1466
01:06:56,199 --> 01:06:59,480
Edie just I think for if you're Jalen Wells, you

1467
01:06:59,519 --> 01:07:01,320
would need to be better at one of two things.

1468
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:03,639
Where do I trust him to go up against more

1469
01:07:03,639 --> 01:07:06,320
of the power wings he's fought. I don't know that

1470
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:08,639
he's held up so well there or does he have

1471
01:07:08,719 --> 01:07:11,360
more ball skills offensively? But you also look at like

1472
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:13,599
what this team kind of needs and they have Santi

1473
01:07:13,639 --> 01:07:16,960
al Dama, they have Brandon Clark like they need wings,

1474
01:07:17,119 --> 01:07:20,800
like properly sized wings. And Jalen Wells is that so

1475
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:23,760
I think he probably has a stronger case than we're

1476
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:26,400
giving him. But I also kind of feel like Zach

1477
01:07:26,639 --> 01:07:29,360
Edy is more of the anomaly, and that's why I'll

1478
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:31,599
favor him. As you mentioned, like the three point shooting,

1479
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:35,079
the screen settings already translated, I just and then this

1480
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:37,519
was I looked this up the other day. There's only

1481
01:07:38,159 --> 01:07:41,079
four rookies, three other rookies who have ever matched Edie's

1482
01:07:41,079 --> 01:07:45,000
rebounding and block rates while hitting as many threes, Chet Holmgrend,

1483
01:07:45,079 --> 01:07:48,199
Victor women Yama, and Isaiah Stewart. And so you're running

1484
01:07:48,199 --> 01:07:50,159
the spectrum of okay, it's super too high in guys

1485
01:07:50,159 --> 01:07:53,880
there and then Isaiah Stewart. But I think that, especially

1486
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:58,119
because of how Jaron Jackson Junior excuse me, is best

1487
01:07:58,119 --> 01:08:00,559
being deployed, it feels like Edie will end up being

1488
01:08:00,639 --> 01:08:04,079
more important long term. You could also say, though, is

1489
01:08:04,119 --> 01:08:06,039
he always gonna be playing like relatively model?

1490
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 1: Then in that case, Wells would be a good good answer.

1491
01:08:09,559 --> 01:08:13,400
Speaker 3: I think you'd also say, like Edie is, there are

1492
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:15,199
a few there are gonna be things that Edie can't do,

1493
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:18,439
Like he's just the brook Lopez model, is very much

1494
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:21,399
the model, Like you don't want brook Lopez guarding in

1495
01:08:21,399 --> 01:08:23,359
space if you can help it, Like that's that's gonna

1496
01:08:23,359 --> 01:08:26,079
make it tough. His mobility and Wells is just like

1497
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:29,359
he does. Wells doesn't take anything away from what you'd

1498
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:31,279
like to do on both ends. Like Wells is just

1499
01:08:31,359 --> 01:08:34,039
he's ready now to be a starter. It is on

1500
01:08:34,119 --> 01:08:36,880
a good team in a in a limited role. So

1501
01:08:37,039 --> 01:08:39,479
like we're just banking on Edie becoming a brook Lopez

1502
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:41,880
type because otherwise you should just pick Wells because he's

1503
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:43,840
already a valuable player for.

1504
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:48,880
Speaker 2: The Miami Heat Khalil Ware or Tyler Hero grant Man.

1505
01:08:49,039 --> 01:08:51,800
Speaker 3: I mean this would have been easy a year ago

1506
01:08:52,399 --> 01:08:56,600
before Hero just started and where was in college because

1507
01:08:56,600 --> 01:09:01,920
he wasn't on the team. I'm gonna go. I think

1508
01:09:01,960 --> 01:09:04,439
I'm still going the mystery box thing. I just think

1509
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:08,680
the hero player type is he's not Jordan Clarkson. He's

1510
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:11,159
way better Jordan Clarkson, but it's that type of player

1511
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:15,640
where he's not giving you anything defensively, and his size

1512
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:19,039
means that he's kind of a he's really not even

1513
01:09:19,119 --> 01:09:21,600
He's like a one position defender and you hide him,

1514
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:24,520
whereas where might just be big and athletic and able

1515
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:26,800
to shoot threes in block shots, Like I think I

1516
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:27,920
value that a little more.

1517
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:32,119
Speaker 2: I feel like Miami's time horizon here complicates this for me.

1518
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:35,000
But because of their pick protections moving forward, like the

1519
01:09:35,039 --> 01:09:37,359
picks that they owe, I just think it's Tyler hero

1520
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:40,159
because he's the only player on the team now that

1521
01:09:40,279 --> 01:09:43,159
is capable of driving their offense. And maybe that changes

1522
01:09:43,199 --> 01:09:46,119
over the offseason or thereafter, but it's like it's not

1523
01:09:46,199 --> 01:09:48,479
Terry Rozier, it's not even Bam out of Baio in

1524
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:50,800
that where it's not gonna be Andrew Wiggins. So I

1525
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:53,560
get what you're saying about catering to the upside, but

1526
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:56,800
like what is like what's the player comp even in

1527
01:09:56,880 --> 01:09:58,680
terms of upside for kohalil Ware.

1528
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:01,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. I think I think really what

1529
01:10:01,439 --> 01:10:04,000
as as you're making your case, what it's making me

1530
01:10:04,079 --> 01:10:06,319
realize is I don't really have any faith in the

1531
01:10:06,319 --> 01:10:09,039
heats like mid term prospects or you know. So I

1532
01:10:09,079 --> 01:10:11,199
think I just I'm picking the younger guy who I

1533
01:10:11,199 --> 01:10:13,640
think might matter on the version of the team that

1534
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:16,039
like maybe doesn't even have hero anymore, because I feel

1535
01:10:16,039 --> 01:10:19,279
like that's you know, the draft stuff does say that

1536
01:10:19,319 --> 01:10:21,800
they need to care about now, uh and in the

1537
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:25,479
next couple of years. So they But but I I, yeah,

1538
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:28,039
I just the hero player type doesn't do it for me.

1539
01:10:28,319 --> 01:10:30,399
It's it's a matther In that's it's like that kind

1540
01:10:30,399 --> 01:10:30,680
of thing.

1541
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:33,399
Speaker 2: I initially proposed Colila or Andrew Wiggins. But would you

1542
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:34,960
have picked Wigans over Tyler Hero?

1543
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:40,279
Speaker 3: Probably not because for the reasons you said of like

1544
01:10:40,399 --> 01:10:42,600
somebody's got to make the offense run, and you know,

1545
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:44,680
Wiggins is old enough to where you're not thinking about

1546
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:45,439
five years.

1547
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 2: I think if you would have picked Wigs and we

1548
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:48,760
would have needed to have an intervention for you, Like

1549
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:51,000
there's something I don't know who what what of these

1550
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:52,840
like scoring playmaking guards hurt you?

1551
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:55,560
Speaker 1: Is it this like Jordan Poole, like PTSD or something?

1552
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:57,399
Speaker 3: But maybe yeah, it's a chicken or egg. I didn't

1553
01:10:57,399 --> 01:11:00,840
love Jordan Poole and he that player type. I don't

1554
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:02,560
know if it's because of him or he just fits

1555
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:03,239
into that box.

1556
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:06,199
Speaker 1: Hit me with the Milwaukee Bucks, mister Hughes.

1557
01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:10,159
Speaker 3: The Milwaukee Bucks. You must decide between brook Lopez mentioned

1558
01:11:10,159 --> 01:11:14,920
several times by me already, or Kyle Kuzma new friend but.

1559
01:11:15,039 --> 01:11:17,119
Speaker 1: Not hasn't looked too bad in Milwaukee either.

1560
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:20,800
Speaker 2: I will say Kyle Kuzma's younger and under contract, but

1561
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:24,199
I still think it's brook Lopez. There's a I'm it

1562
01:11:24,239 --> 01:11:26,920
would really depend. I think this season specifically, it's still

1563
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:29,039
brook Lopez. But even if you're moving beyond that a

1564
01:11:29,079 --> 01:11:32,800
little bit, could you say Bobby Portis is either not

1565
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:34,760
going to opt out or comes back at a smaller number.

1566
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:37,560
I mean, especially following his twenty five games suspension and

1567
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:40,840
like maybe they view playing Giannis up even more. And

1568
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:43,359
because brook Lopez is older that and you have Kuzma,

1569
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:46,079
like maybe it is just Kuzma. But I still just

1570
01:11:46,119 --> 01:11:48,680
think brook Lopez is the archetype that we've kind of

1571
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:50,000
spent a lot of time saying, like.

1572
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:50,960
Speaker 1: They're just not available.

1573
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:53,119
Speaker 2: Like still, god, who can be a rim protector and

1574
01:11:53,239 --> 01:11:55,880
is going to stretch the floor for you? So I

1575
01:11:56,000 --> 01:12:00,520
still go him, even though I guess in theory Kusma

1576
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:04,000
should fill a higher value role. I would say, at

1577
01:12:04,079 --> 01:12:07,279
least on defense in a playoff setting. But you need

1578
01:12:07,319 --> 01:12:10,760
to tell me that, oh, maybe he was. I mean,

1579
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:12,880
like the base rim protector in the playoff setting doesn't

1580
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:15,279
matter unless you're gonna tell me, here's my thing, that

1581
01:12:15,319 --> 01:12:18,279
you're just gonna have Gyannis and Kuzma populate the front

1582
01:12:18,319 --> 01:12:20,920
court moving forward, And that was the idea behind the trade.

1583
01:12:21,399 --> 01:12:23,479
Speaker 1: I don't I couldn't pick Khusma here. I just can't

1584
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:24,319
do it. No.

1585
01:12:24,359 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 3: I think Kuzma would need to be either an elite

1586
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:32,880
shooter or just even a better defender to make this close.

1587
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:35,399
I think Lopez is just like a fundamental part of

1588
01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:37,800
like what this Bucks team is today and today is

1589
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:40,880
what matters. And again, if Kuzma were younger and or better,

1590
01:12:41,199 --> 01:12:43,199
then you could start thinking about, like, oh, what's you

1591
01:12:43,279 --> 01:12:45,079
mean in the post Jannis world, Like he's just not

1592
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:48,319
He's not at the level of player that the factors

1593
01:12:48,359 --> 01:12:50,359
into that side of it. So I think it's it's

1594
01:12:50,399 --> 01:12:51,399
it's Lopez for me.

1595
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:54,560
Speaker 1: Bonus one Yiannis or Doc Rivers.

1596
01:12:55,399 --> 01:12:57,439
Speaker 3: Who's gonna be there longer? Is that the question there

1597
01:12:57,439 --> 01:12:59,399
will if one leaves, the other one is not gonna

1598
01:12:59,399 --> 01:13:01,199
be a behind him very far.

1599
01:13:01,359 --> 01:13:03,880
Speaker 2: Let's see, we're onto the Minnesota Timberwolves. There was some

1600
01:13:04,119 --> 01:13:05,640
we took some time to figure out which one we

1601
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:09,199
were gonna pin down, but nas Reid or Rob Dillingham,

1602
01:13:09,199 --> 01:13:10,760
who's more important than the Wolves's future?

1603
01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:14,239
Speaker 3: Oh boy? Uh so we got to talk about like

1604
01:13:15,279 --> 01:13:17,680
the kind of the pivot point thing because Reid is

1605
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:20,800
approaching free agency and has looked really good. I mean

1606
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:22,439
we already were kind of in the bag for him,

1607
01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:25,439
but with Randall out, it's just like, this guy can

1608
01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:28,640
be a twenty point score that is gonna spread the floor.

1609
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:33,880
Speaker 2: And he did this when karl Anthy.

1610
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:36,680
Speaker 3: It's just like he can do this, and that's the thing,

1611
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:38,800
is like, and he's probably gonna get paid like a

1612
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:40,680
guy that can do this. And what does that mean?

1613
01:13:41,079 --> 01:13:44,600
Do the Wolves walk? Do they add another high salary?

1614
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:47,039
Do they convince Julius Randall to leave so that it

1615
01:13:47,079 --> 01:13:50,800
makes more sense of it? There's all that to think about,

1616
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:53,680
and also read is like I can't I'm constantly like, oh,

1617
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:56,399
he's only that old, like cause he just I don't know,

1618
01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:59,880
just you forget that he's you know, going, he's not

1619
01:14:00,359 --> 01:14:02,960
twenty eight, Like this isn't just like always gonna wear down?

1620
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:08,479
Is it crazy to still say Dillingham, I think that's

1621
01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:10,800
where I'm gonna so we got to talk about what

1622
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:12,800
the time horizon is for them, which is which is

1623
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:14,880
tricky because they're not in the standings where they were

1624
01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:16,520
last year, where it would have been just like who's

1625
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:21,159
gonna help over the next few months. So that pushes

1626
01:14:21,199 --> 01:14:23,800
me more towards Dillingham, because every time you watch him,

1627
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:27,560
you see like the pre draft billing on him of

1628
01:14:28,399 --> 01:14:30,920
really really hard to stay in front of plays with

1629
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:33,760
a high level of confidence, like could be the on

1630
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:37,840
ball guy that gets Anthony Edwards kind of into a

1631
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:41,119
role that makes like perfect use of what he's great at.

1632
01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:46,000
So I'll go Dillingham. If it were a situation where

1633
01:14:46,039 --> 01:14:50,239
like the Wolves had more control Overread and maybe like,

1634
01:14:50,279 --> 01:14:52,680
oh what could they trade him for? I might go

1635
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:56,159
Read and Reads a better player today by like a

1636
01:14:56,159 --> 01:14:59,479
pretty clear margin. I just think, considering what they gave

1637
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:01,800
up to get Dillingham, the role he might fill, the

1638
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:05,600
flashes I've seen his youth, I think I think, Eileen Dillingham.

1639
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:07,439
Speaker 1: I have to go Dillingham too.

1640
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:10,079
Speaker 2: And I think part of it also is you have

1641
01:15:10,159 --> 01:15:14,359
Rudy Gobert there, and I don't know if you're if

1642
01:15:14,399 --> 01:15:18,359
you if you say Reid doesn't the eventual pivot become

1643
01:15:18,479 --> 01:15:22,399
a just given Rudy Gobert's age, that okay, we view

1644
01:15:22,479 --> 01:15:26,640
him as just our primary center moving forward, and I

1645
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:27,680
don't do you like that?

1646
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:28,720
Speaker 3: How do you feel about that?

1647
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:32,319
Speaker 2: Like, if that's to me, I love it sure, And defensively,

1648
01:15:32,359 --> 01:15:34,319
I think you feel better about it than if it

1649
01:15:34,359 --> 01:15:36,479
was Car. Well maybe not because Conley Town's is a

1650
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:39,039
much better rebounder, right, but like even the scene in

1651
01:15:39,039 --> 01:15:41,880
the Wolves forty first percentile when nas Reed is the

1652
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:44,520
center and just he's gonna have limitations as a rebounder.

1653
01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 1: He has.

1654
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:47,000
Speaker 2: He's gotten better I think over the past like season

1655
01:15:47,079 --> 01:15:49,479
or two as a rim protector. But he's not a

1656
01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:53,479
capslock rim protector. And so if he's not like getting

1657
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:55,680
you rebounds, if he's not really protecting the basket or

1658
01:15:55,680 --> 01:15:57,800
being an a turnent, he's better in I hate to compare

1659
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:00,119
him to this player, but it was just the the

1660
01:16:00,159 --> 01:16:03,159
Nuggets constantly, not constantly, but the view of Zeke Nagy

1661
01:16:03,159 --> 01:16:04,560
at one point was like he's going to be a

1662
01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:07,319
backup five, and it's just no, he's clearly better off

1663
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:11,119
defensively as you're four. I think a lot of similar

1664
01:16:11,119 --> 01:16:13,159
things applied ton Os Reed, just not on the stite.

1665
01:16:13,199 --> 01:16:15,720
He's way better than Zekenage. I'm just saying it's one

1666
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:18,039
of those kind of player types where it's where are

1667
01:16:18,079 --> 01:16:19,279
they best deventually?

1668
01:16:19,319 --> 01:16:19,479
Speaker 1: Now?

1669
01:16:19,479 --> 01:16:21,039
Speaker 2: Do I think you could get away with it because

1670
01:16:21,079 --> 01:16:23,840
you have Anthony Edwards, Jane McDaniels, if you keep Nikhil

1671
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:29,920
Alexander Walker around, maybe, but I you have Gobert. I mean,

1672
01:16:30,039 --> 01:16:32,920
Randall's kind of there too, and so does Reid given

1673
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:35,720
their financial situation as well. I think it has to

1674
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:38,039
be dealing Ham because of the team control. But also

1675
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:41,600
that's like their biggest pain point too. It's like everything

1676
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:43,840
Reid is doing is awesome, but none of it has

1677
01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:46,560
kind of bridged the gap between them and what they

1678
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:49,439
were last year, when it was the offense felt more

1679
01:16:49,439 --> 01:16:52,720
trustworthy even though it still wasn't capslock elite, and even

1680
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:55,119
when even when they were at their best last year,

1681
01:16:55,199 --> 01:16:58,000
what was kind of the biggest conundrum. You're either two

1682
01:16:58,039 --> 01:17:00,840
dependent on Mike Conley or two dependent on Anthy Edwards,

1683
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:03,119
and the two people you're too dependent on, they're not

1684
01:17:03,119 --> 01:17:04,960
going to bring you to an offensive level high enough

1685
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:07,159
to win the title. I don't know if Rob Dillingham

1686
01:17:07,239 --> 01:17:09,720
is going to be that either, but he certainly just

1687
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:13,359
because of what he does everything you outlined, like, he

1688
01:17:13,439 --> 01:17:15,760
might be that player, whereas Reed is not going to be.

1689
01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:17,439
Speaker 1: That's just not the player that he's supposed to be.

1690
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:21,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a tough one though. Would you've gone Rob

1691
01:17:21,279 --> 01:17:23,600
Dillingham or Jade McDaniels with the other one?

1692
01:17:24,239 --> 01:17:26,800
Speaker 3: If well, if we're talking shorter term, I think you

1693
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:28,680
have to go McDaniels. But I don't know that the

1694
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:31,000
Wolves are like at a point where it's like, oh,

1695
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:33,560
in the three and D's two, it's super valuable. I

1696
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:35,159
probably would have gone Dillingham, honestly.

1697
01:17:36,199 --> 01:17:37,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, every time I see.

1698
01:17:37,239 --> 01:17:39,199
Speaker 2: Jane McDaniels like dribble into a pull up these days,

1699
01:17:39,239 --> 01:17:40,880
I'm kind of like, well, maybe it would be him,

1700
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:42,600
but that would be I think I probably would have

1701
01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:44,479
leaned Dillingham, which is such a weird thing to say,

1702
01:17:44,520 --> 01:17:47,399
because these players are so much better than him right now,

1703
01:17:48,119 --> 01:17:50,680
So we are on to the New Orleans Pelicans, grant

1704
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:54,439
they are yours, Zion Williamson or Trey Murphy who is

1705
01:17:54,479 --> 01:17:55,600
more important to the future.

1706
01:17:56,399 --> 01:17:59,000
Speaker 3: We love Trey Murphy, but it's Zion is just and

1707
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:00,920
and this might have been hard like a month ago,

1708
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:04,520
but Zion is just he looks pretty close to as

1709
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:08,840
good as he's looked ever maybe right now, just so

1710
01:18:09,319 --> 01:18:11,880
Zion is the central figure here. Whatever happens to the

1711
01:18:11,880 --> 01:18:15,199
New Orleans Pelicans franchise will be determined by what they

1712
01:18:15,239 --> 01:18:17,079
do with him and the role he continues to play.

1713
01:18:17,199 --> 01:18:19,960
As good as Murphy is and as much improved as

1714
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:22,319
he's been, like, he's just not on that level. So

1715
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:26,640
short term it's Zion because they just everything's about him

1716
01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:30,239
still justifiably. And long term it's Zion because this team

1717
01:18:30,319 --> 01:18:33,000
is going to be a certain type of team because

1718
01:18:33,039 --> 01:18:35,800
he is there until he's not, and like Murphy just

1719
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:39,760
doesn't have that same sort of global impact on like

1720
01:18:40,039 --> 01:18:41,640
what the whole operation is.

1721
01:18:42,239 --> 01:18:44,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't know, like he would need to.

1722
01:18:45,199 --> 01:18:47,439
Speaker 2: You would have to run the entire offense through him,

1723
01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:49,239
Like the passing and his self creation has been fun

1724
01:18:49,239 --> 01:18:51,119
to see from him this year, but it's just what

1725
01:18:51,199 --> 01:18:54,960
it's in comparison to Zion specifically, who is just he

1726
01:18:55,000 --> 01:18:56,800
has not played in a ton of games, but we're

1727
01:18:56,840 --> 01:19:00,920
talking twenty fourth points five assists. Still not like always

1728
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:02,319
looked at like through and through this year has not

1729
01:19:02,319 --> 01:19:05,199
looked great. Still shooting fifty six percent on twos. And

1730
01:19:05,279 --> 01:19:08,880
just consider how banged up the Pelicans have been and

1731
01:19:08,920 --> 01:19:12,279
they're still outscoring opponents for the season when Zion's on

1732
01:19:12,319 --> 01:19:16,640
the court. As just I don't there. I will never

1733
01:19:16,760 --> 01:19:20,960
quit caffeine, random cheesecake binges or Zion Williams. Like I

1734
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:23,920
could just Zion Williams's top ten player, lightning in a

1735
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:26,399
bottle stuff. I don't know if I'll ever played long

1736
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:28,479
enough to be that, but you can't. I think he

1737
01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:29,079
has to be the game.

1738
01:19:29,119 --> 01:19:31,800
Speaker 3: The heis are just undeniable with him. It's just how

1739
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:32,640
long do they last?

1740
01:19:32,800 --> 01:19:34,960
Speaker 1: Who is it for the New York Knicks brand?

1741
01:19:35,119 --> 01:19:37,079
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm glad you have to lead off with this one.

1742
01:19:37,439 --> 01:19:40,560
Uh we're gonna I guess we could tear this too. Uh,

1743
01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:42,840
We've got I'll just make it the wings. Is it

1744
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:44,760
og or is it mckail bridges.

1745
01:19:47,039 --> 01:19:50,479
Speaker 1: Immediately it's og Ananobi, which is problematic.

1746
01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:53,439
Speaker 3: Why is it immediately him?

1747
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:55,760
Speaker 2: Because it's just he showed more this season, Like it's

1748
01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:59,439
just offensively, mckel bridges still has the higher peak with defensively.

1749
01:20:00,039 --> 01:20:02,079
If you remove og Ananobi from this team, the Knicks

1750
01:20:02,119 --> 01:20:04,920
already aren't good enough. They will be a disaster and

1751
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:07,680
mchal Bridges is not was never like gonna be able

1752
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:09,560
to do some of the bigger wing stuff that or

1753
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:12,319
like actual big man stuff that OG could theoretically do.

1754
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:15,800
But there's been the noise, especially like the beginning and

1755
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:18,520
the middle beginning of the season with mchal Bridges defensively

1756
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:23,760
wasn't great. It's McHale Bridges because you gave up so

1757
01:20:23,960 --> 01:20:25,720
much to get him, and I think you could make

1758
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:27,880
the case that he's been their fifth best player this season,

1759
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:30,159
which is just there's a chance that trade goes down

1760
01:20:30,159 --> 01:20:32,520
as all time terrible. He's also the one who could

1761
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:35,640
reach free agency sooner at this point. And you also

1762
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:38,359
look at it through like they're not if the Knicks

1763
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:40,960
make any changes, it's not to get the second best

1764
01:20:40,960 --> 01:20:43,920
player on the team or the second best let's say

1765
01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:46,680
scorer on the team. That has been Karl Anthony Towns

1766
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:47,199
this season.

1767
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:48,960
Speaker 1: But now we're.

1768
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:51,720
Speaker 2: Getting into more deeply into the discussions of like what

1769
01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:54,159
does Karl Anthon Towns look like against the teams that

1770
01:20:54,439 --> 01:20:56,600
the Knicks need to beat. The cos and Celtics are

1771
01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:58,720
shooting like eighty four percent at the rim against Karl

1772
01:20:58,760 --> 01:21:01,760
Anthony Towns this and like he hasn't necessarily looked great

1773
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:05,800
on offense in those games. I still think that mcel

1774
01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:07,920
bridge is probably the second most important player to the

1775
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:11,520
Knicks moving forward, aside from Jalen bruns In in part

1776
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:14,279
because of what they gave up to get him. Maybe

1777
01:21:14,279 --> 01:21:17,159
that maybe Karnthy Towns is the second most important player overall.

1778
01:21:17,199 --> 01:21:19,800
But when you look at what mchal Bridges is supposed

1779
01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:23,239
to do offensively and defensively, you still have to hold

1780
01:21:23,239 --> 01:21:27,439
out hope for that player like arriving and sustaining because

1781
01:21:27,479 --> 01:21:29,119
we know Og is never going to be that type

1782
01:21:29,159 --> 01:21:31,560
of player on offense, and they're still like to me,

1783
01:21:31,720 --> 01:21:33,560
you have to hold out hope that mckel bridges can

1784
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:36,039
be of at least the fact simile of a number

1785
01:21:36,079 --> 01:21:37,079
two three hybrid.

1786
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:42,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think that's right. I think you

1787
01:21:42,079 --> 01:21:45,239
know it. You cut you catch yourself saying like, well,

1788
01:21:45,279 --> 01:21:48,720
Og is the guy that gives Towns cover defensively, like

1789
01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:51,199
that's the heat handles that. But really, Bridges is the

1790
01:21:51,239 --> 01:21:54,399
guy that you need to be giving Brunson cover and

1791
01:21:54,199 --> 01:21:56,319
I and I think I don't know which of those.

1792
01:21:56,600 --> 01:21:59,359
Probably the Towns issue is bigger defensively, just because he

1793
01:21:59,359 --> 01:22:02,199
plays a more import or in position. It has to

1794
01:22:02,239 --> 01:22:04,800
be Bridges because I think I'm not so hung up

1795
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:07,479
on on like yeah, man, they give up a lot

1796
01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:09,319
to get him. It's just like, well, that money's spent

1797
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:12,399
or those picks are spent. So I don't know, I'm

1798
01:22:12,439 --> 01:22:15,760
trying to separate that from like, well, go forward.

1799
01:22:15,439 --> 01:22:18,039
Speaker 2: He's that extension. He's going to be extension eligible if

1800
01:22:18,079 --> 01:22:20,399
he signs it this season. I think people will still

1801
01:22:20,439 --> 01:22:22,960
think that's below market even after this year or.

1802
01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:24,039
Speaker 1: Close to it.

1803
01:22:23,960 --> 01:22:26,039
Speaker 2: It's like that's also kind of a pivot point for them,

1804
01:22:26,119 --> 01:22:27,439
is if are they going to have to invest when

1805
01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:29,439
they've already paid oh g Annoby so much like og

1806
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:31,960
Ananobe type money in McKeil Bridges.

1807
01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:35,399
Speaker 3: That makes it even more clearly Bridges. It's just like

1808
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:39,399
he's gonna make you have to make some tough financial calls.

1809
01:22:39,479 --> 01:22:44,199
I I think it's Bridges. I think almostly. It's it's

1810
01:22:44,239 --> 01:22:48,439
really partly because he just hasn't been good enough for

1811
01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:50,760
the most part, and you need him to be so

1812
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:53,239
and like may and like I think maybe it's fair

1813
01:22:53,279 --> 01:22:56,279
to expect like he can be, but I but he

1814
01:22:56,520 --> 01:22:58,359
he just has to og He's been like kind of

1815
01:22:58,399 --> 01:23:00,840
pretty much as advertised maybe even like a little better

1816
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:05,399
in some ways, I think it's bridges. This isn't necessarily

1817
01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:07,800
what this is about, but like as talking like swing piece,

1818
01:23:08,279 --> 01:23:11,640
like he's a guy that could be should be consistently

1819
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:14,399
your third leading scorer on good efficiency and someone that's

1820
01:23:14,399 --> 01:23:17,119
making plays in addition to Brunson, Like he should be that,

1821
01:23:17,439 --> 01:23:19,479
and he should be the guy that's shutting down ones

1822
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:21,840
and twos and some threes, and he hasn't always been that,

1823
01:23:22,479 --> 01:23:25,720
So that just makes him critical because that's what he's

1824
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:28,000
here for. That's what they gave up all that for

1825
01:23:28,119 --> 01:23:31,399
him to do, and they need that to happen. So like,

1826
01:23:32,119 --> 01:23:34,840
I don't know what term to label it with, but

1827
01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:37,600
it's like I guess it's kind of X factory. He's

1828
01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:38,720
got to be that X factor.

1829
01:23:39,319 --> 01:23:41,359
Speaker 2: Do you think he's more important in their future than

1830
01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:43,880
Karl Anthony Towns? So I know Town's have been better

1831
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:47,000
this year, but because of like if I guess you

1832
01:23:47,119 --> 01:23:49,119
have to give it more than this playoff run if

1833
01:23:49,159 --> 01:23:51,600
things don't go according to plan, But like, how else

1834
01:23:51,640 --> 01:23:55,000
are you supposed to insulate the brunts in Karl Anthony

1835
01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:59,680
Towns dynamic on defense? Like you can upgrade from Josh Hart,

1836
01:23:59,720 --> 01:24:02,960
I guess defensively, right, and that's are we sure that?

1837
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:04,880
Speaker 1: And what does that look like? Is it playing a

1838
01:24:04,920 --> 01:24:06,600
big or is it getting.

1839
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:09,800
Speaker 2: What do you need another ogobi in which case, So

1840
01:24:09,880 --> 01:24:11,920
it's just that's the other thing I've kind of given

1841
01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:12,279
thoughts to.

1842
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:14,680
Speaker 1: Again, the Knicks are a good team, but they're.

1843
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:16,399
Speaker 2: Very clearly not a contender. I think we could just

1844
01:24:16,439 --> 01:24:17,560
say that with confidence, you know.

1845
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:19,079
Speaker 3: I think he got me there.

1846
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:22,600
Speaker 2: The thing that becomes interesting then is, well, how do

1847
01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:26,439
you optimize their championship stock when you have bruntson and

1848
01:24:26,680 --> 01:24:28,720
towns And if let's just say.

1849
01:24:29,159 --> 01:24:31,439
Speaker 1: Like not that Mitchell Robinson's kind of the last.

1850
01:24:31,279 --> 01:24:33,760
Speaker 2: Card to play, but like if you decide that it's

1851
01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:36,560
not with Conathy Towns as your quote unquote for for

1852
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:41,239
a good amount of time, then doesn't Cornley Town's not

1853
01:24:41,279 --> 01:24:44,840
even become expendable but like someone that you should probably move.

1854
01:24:45,840 --> 01:24:48,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe, I mean I think you weigh all that

1855
01:24:48,319 --> 01:24:52,239
against like Towns. What Towns is good at He's been

1856
01:24:52,399 --> 01:24:55,720
so much better at than Bridges this year, you know,

1857
01:24:55,880 --> 01:24:58,079
like you're asking kind of more of the next couple

1858
01:24:58,079 --> 01:24:59,920
of years. Like if things don't go well in the

1859
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:00,920
these playoffs and you know.

1860
01:25:02,359 --> 01:25:03,600
Speaker 1: I've written this year off.

1861
01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:05,359
Speaker 2: It's like it's I'm not saying the Knicks are bad,

1862
01:25:05,359 --> 01:25:07,920
but like they might win a playoff series. I don't

1863
01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:09,880
see them beating the Calves or the Celtics.

1864
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:10,159
Speaker 1: I don't.

1865
01:25:10,159 --> 01:25:12,159
Speaker 2: I don't even think that they'll have a realistic chance.

1866
01:25:12,600 --> 01:25:15,000
And if they do, you know, I will happily eat

1867
01:25:15,039 --> 01:25:15,520
that crush.

1868
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:18,039
Speaker 3: Sure, Yeah, you don't think they have like a puncher's

1869
01:25:18,239 --> 01:25:20,960
I think you're right. I think like if you if

1870
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:23,439
you view them as on the same level as Cleveland

1871
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:26,399
and Boston, you're just you haven't been paying attention. I

1872
01:25:27,039 --> 01:25:31,319
think I still, like I've seen Brunton do some pretty

1873
01:25:31,359 --> 01:25:34,680
amazing stuff, like in big games, and I just they

1874
01:25:34,680 --> 01:25:38,000
have like a puncher's chance. It's a cop out, that's.

1875
01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:39,880
Speaker 2: My It's like this team is just Brunton's had to

1876
01:25:39,880 --> 01:25:41,920
do police heroics out of his ass in games that

1877
01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:43,560
they have no business needing heroics.

1878
01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:46,119
Speaker 3: Ye shouldn't need to do this.

1879
01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:49,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's and by the way, Brunton was like,

1880
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:51,479
it has been kind of culpable points for like some of

1881
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:53,800
the offensive stickiness that they haven't in some of these

1882
01:25:53,800 --> 01:25:56,199
better teams, And I just it's I think carly.

1883
01:25:56,039 --> 01:25:57,239
Speaker 1: Town's a fantastic player.

1884
01:25:57,720 --> 01:25:59,640
Speaker 2: I just if it ends up being, and I don't

1885
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:01,560
think it's going to be because of the limitations on

1886
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:04,000
offense then and it's not. Maybe I feel differently if

1887
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:07,600
the Knicks's offense had been on fire against Cleveland against.

1888
01:26:07,359 --> 01:26:08,239
Speaker 1: It hasn't like it.

1889
01:26:08,479 --> 01:26:11,800
Speaker 2: It's been fine to bad, And so I look at

1890
01:26:11,840 --> 01:26:13,680
it and say, if Mitchell Robinson is not the answer,

1891
01:26:14,520 --> 01:26:17,640
how do you properly then build? Like I would say

1892
01:26:17,640 --> 01:26:22,079
that you need another og Ananoby and that's not they.

1893
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:24,079
Speaker 3: Have no Like you got another quarter billion dollars to

1894
01:26:24,079 --> 01:26:24,479
get one?

1895
01:26:25,399 --> 01:26:26,720
Speaker 2: Do you don't have the assets to get one? And

1896
01:26:26,760 --> 01:26:28,800
if you're getting one, did you trade Jeen Brunson to

1897
01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:30,119
get him? Or did you have to give up og

1898
01:26:30,199 --> 01:26:31,279
Anobi to get the next o?

1899
01:26:31,399 --> 01:26:32,039
Speaker 1: Giannanoby?

1900
01:26:32,079 --> 01:26:35,239
Speaker 3: Like I don't last thing on the Knicks, do you?

1901
01:26:35,279 --> 01:26:37,439
So here's where I have landed. I wrote this the

1902
01:26:37,439 --> 01:26:40,159
other day. I still think I think they're in a

1903
01:26:40,199 --> 01:26:43,920
tier by themselves, and I think they're actually closer to

1904
01:26:44,840 --> 01:26:49,279
Boston Cleveland than they are to like Indie Detroit, Orlando

1905
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:51,760
or like with that chunk really just Indie Detroit. I

1906
01:26:51,760 --> 01:26:53,520
guess I think they're closer to the top.

1907
01:26:53,319 --> 01:26:56,600
Speaker 1: Than the middle. You have them above like Memphis, Houston, Denver.

1908
01:26:56,760 --> 01:26:58,520
Speaker 3: I'm just I'm just talking in the east. Just in

1909
01:26:58,560 --> 01:27:01,880
the East, I.

1910
01:27:01,880 --> 01:27:03,880
Speaker 2: Would probably be more inclined to put I would say

1911
01:27:03,880 --> 01:27:05,800
they're closer to Milwaukee indeed than Boston.

1912
01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:08,119
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's pretty clear.

1913
01:27:08,359 --> 01:27:11,640
Speaker 3: Okay, I think I think I think the upside's still there.

1914
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:12,520
But but I could be real.

1915
01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:15,159
Speaker 2: Here's my question, and I don't mean to make it

1916
01:27:15,159 --> 01:27:17,680
about this, but the other card they could play is

1917
01:27:18,119 --> 01:27:20,760
do you see a more And I think that he's

1918
01:27:20,760 --> 01:27:23,199
been more flexible than he was in years past, like

1919
01:27:23,359 --> 01:27:26,560
over the past couple of seasons, but like just changing

1920
01:27:26,560 --> 01:27:29,760
the coach changed the complexion of the defense at all enough,

1921
01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:32,359
because the personnel will still be the personnel. But maybe

1922
01:27:32,359 --> 01:27:34,359
you're just saying, Okay, Karlathon Town's the center and they're

1923
01:27:34,399 --> 01:27:37,439
playing hyper aggressively anyway, he's not spending as much time

1924
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:39,479
and drop. I don't know if they'll even have the

1925
01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:41,279
personnel of account for that, But that would be the

1926
01:27:41,319 --> 01:27:44,239
other argument if you're if you're concerned like I am,

1927
01:27:44,279 --> 01:27:47,199
about well, how do you build a playoff proof defense with.

1928
01:27:47,239 --> 01:27:49,720
Speaker 1: Karlathony Towns and Jalen Brunson. Do you think a coaching

1929
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:50,960
change could be the answer.

1930
01:27:51,319 --> 01:27:54,399
Speaker 3: No, I mean I think I think the not Tipico,

1931
01:27:54,479 --> 01:27:57,239
I think has rightly been credited with like regular season

1932
01:27:57,279 --> 01:27:59,720
wise he gets he kind of maxes out what he's

1933
01:27:59,720 --> 01:28:03,079
gonna get out of a team. So yours is more

1934
01:28:03,079 --> 01:28:05,079
of a playoff question. But like I just I think

1935
01:28:05,079 --> 01:28:09,199
it is. It's personnel, like it's Brunson in town a little.

1936
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:11,720
Speaker 2: Bit of survival too, of maybe it'll play some guys

1937
01:28:11,760 --> 01:28:12,520
a little less.

1938
01:28:12,439 --> 01:28:15,720
Speaker 3: But but Bruntson and Towns together is just like opposing

1939
01:28:15,840 --> 01:28:18,960
offenses are like cool, we got like your these are

1940
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:21,479
your pick and roll, like we're good with this. So

1941
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:24,159
I just I don't know what coaching tweaks you could

1942
01:28:24,199 --> 01:28:28,720
make that maybe if you employ like some genius from

1943
01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:32,399
like Sweden that specializes in like pre switching, so your

1944
01:28:32,399 --> 01:28:35,359
whole defense is just geared around not involving Towns or

1945
01:28:35,359 --> 01:28:37,880
Bruntson in the in the play somehow, Like I don't know,

1946
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:40,119
it's just that that maybe then I.

1947
01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:41,920
Speaker 2: Was trying to think of the player, like not that

1948
01:28:41,960 --> 01:28:44,720
they could realistically get, but like a realistic type of

1949
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:46,960
player that I think would make me feel a lot

1950
01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:50,039
better about the Knicks' defense in the playoffs, and the

1951
01:28:50,159 --> 01:28:52,000
name I came up with is still just so high

1952
01:28:52,119 --> 01:28:55,640
end that it's a little demoralizing me. But like Tamani

1953
01:28:55,720 --> 01:28:57,920
Kamara on this team, like that's the type of player

1954
01:28:57,960 --> 01:28:58,560
that they need.

1955
01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:02,439
Speaker 1: It's that's honestly almost not okay, But.

1956
01:29:03,680 --> 01:29:06,800
Speaker 3: Aaron Gordon maybe, like can you get him right?

1957
01:29:07,279 --> 01:29:09,640
Speaker 1: Herbe Jones maybe maybe not herb Jones.

1958
01:29:09,680 --> 01:29:10,159
Speaker 3: It's tough.

1959
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:15,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we are onto the Oklahoma City thunder Grant breaths,

1960
01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:19,039
Calm down, We're gonna get through this together. Except we're

1961
01:29:19,039 --> 01:29:20,840
not because I'm gonna let you take the talking stick.

1962
01:29:21,520 --> 01:29:23,359
Check Houng grind or Jalen Williams.

1963
01:29:23,720 --> 01:29:25,760
Speaker 3: Have we already talked about this before?

1964
01:29:26,439 --> 01:29:28,960
Speaker 2: We probably during that five year exercise that we did

1965
01:29:28,960 --> 01:29:31,199
at the beginning of the year where we took listeners

1966
01:29:31,239 --> 01:29:32,720
like we had like god, it was almost like one

1967
01:29:32,760 --> 01:29:34,479
hundred combinations of players.

1968
01:29:35,079 --> 01:29:38,000
Speaker 3: Man, I just want to because I I don't want

1969
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:41,279
to go against what I what I've said in the past. Uh,

1970
01:29:41,439 --> 01:29:43,079
But I don't know if we've ever just if you've

1971
01:29:43,119 --> 01:29:45,319
ever been put to a decision of either or here,

1972
01:29:47,479 --> 01:29:52,560
I think it's chet and that feels like blasphemy. But

1973
01:29:53,840 --> 01:29:59,279
I think Jalen Williams is very good at everything, and

1974
01:29:59,399 --> 01:30:03,359
I think and like, oh man, is.

1975
01:30:03,319 --> 01:30:05,960
Speaker 1: It Chet, Here's here's my thing.

1976
01:30:07,439 --> 01:30:10,000
Speaker 2: They cobbled together one of the best defenses of all

1977
01:30:10,039 --> 01:30:14,079
time without Chet Holm Grin. Yeah, but does he make

1978
01:30:15,439 --> 01:30:17,279
if you're my point with that be if you're picking

1979
01:30:17,359 --> 01:30:19,640
Chet Holmegrin, it's because you think he's gonna do more

1980
01:30:20,119 --> 01:30:23,680
to elevate the non SGA offense even when SGA is

1981
01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:26,399
on the floor, than Jayalen Williams would.

1982
01:30:26,239 --> 01:30:30,159
Speaker 3: And based on the numbers, feels like almost anyone could do.

1983
01:30:30,920 --> 01:30:35,239
But obviously the numbers don't totally control here. So I'm

1984
01:30:35,239 --> 01:30:37,520
gonna talk it out because I'm now I'm already wanting

1985
01:30:37,560 --> 01:30:38,239
to back off.

1986
01:30:38,119 --> 01:30:40,279
Speaker 2: Of There was one more question to you, Ye seen

1987
01:30:40,399 --> 01:30:42,960
j dub play center. I haven't seen Chet play shooting guard?

1988
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:46,680
Speaker 3: And that's true. That's true, I think. So I already

1989
01:30:46,680 --> 01:30:50,039
feel myself backing off of this. The reason I'm tempted

1990
01:30:50,039 --> 01:30:53,640
to say Chet, let's start there is that I think

1991
01:30:53,760 --> 01:30:57,000
he offers the team. Again, this is theoretical because the

1992
01:30:57,039 --> 01:31:00,520
defense was you said it was was elite without him.

1993
01:31:01,039 --> 01:31:06,720
I think he offers the team like lineup looks and

1994
01:31:06,800 --> 01:31:13,319
just versatility potential on both ends that feels just incredibly

1995
01:31:13,399 --> 01:31:17,199
hard to find like that so few other guys could

1996
01:31:17,279 --> 01:31:20,279
could give them with his spacing, with like his potential

1997
01:31:20,279 --> 01:31:23,439
for offensive growth going forward. He's a defensive player of

1998
01:31:23,439 --> 01:31:27,119
the Year caliber defender that you can't really attack with

1999
01:31:27,159 --> 01:31:31,159
switches like he just he he could. He could be

2000
01:31:31,880 --> 01:31:35,199
like truly spectacular in a role that like no one

2001
01:31:35,239 --> 01:31:39,560
can fill, and and and then the question is like,

2002
01:31:40,680 --> 01:31:43,640
even if he is, that does that matter more than

2003
01:31:43,680 --> 01:31:46,239
a do it all wing who plays at an all

2004
01:31:46,279 --> 01:31:49,840
star level that can can true can really be like

2005
01:31:50,119 --> 01:31:53,720
a better Jalen Brown to your to your SGA's Jason Tatum.

2006
01:31:54,119 --> 01:31:56,479
Maybe not right now, but maybe right now and definitely

2007
01:31:56,640 --> 01:32:00,560
down the line. I think maybe I got a walk

2008
01:32:00,600 --> 01:32:04,039
it back because the wing position matters so much you

2009
01:32:04,199 --> 01:32:07,920
gotta have two of them, and on off stuff. Notwithstanding,

2010
01:32:07,960 --> 01:32:12,560
I think Jadob is still you're not picking many young

2011
01:32:12,840 --> 01:32:16,600
wings over him. I think maybe I'll go Jalen Williams.

2012
01:32:17,119 --> 01:32:19,279
But you could really sell me on Chet if you

2013
01:32:19,319 --> 01:32:22,199
could promise me he's gonna be healthy and hit his

2014
01:32:22,279 --> 01:32:24,319
potential offensively.

2015
01:32:25,319 --> 01:32:27,439
Speaker 2: I would agree with pretty much everything you said. I

2016
01:32:27,439 --> 01:32:29,520
wonder if there's the even simpler way to do it

2017
01:32:29,520 --> 01:32:33,439
would be take Jalen Williams off this team right now,

2018
01:32:34,359 --> 01:32:36,640
or take Chet Holman off this team right now.

2019
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:40,720
Speaker 1: Which we did did but are they better in the playoffs?

2020
01:32:40,720 --> 01:32:43,319
Speaker 2: And so it almost comes down to do you trust like, Okay,

2021
01:32:43,319 --> 01:32:46,039
it's Isaiah Hartenstein, then you have some Kenrick Williams sprinkled

2022
01:32:46,399 --> 01:32:49,479
in there to replace Chet versus because I almost one

2023
01:32:49,520 --> 01:32:51,000
of the other things I consider when I was thinking

2024
01:32:51,000 --> 01:32:54,159
about this was it's not that okayse is old, but

2025
01:32:54,359 --> 01:32:56,600
like you can see some of the guys in the

2026
01:32:56,600 --> 01:32:59,880
perimeter spots maybe like aging out or running their utility

2027
01:33:00,239 --> 01:33:03,199
like like kind of like Alex Caruso for sure does

2028
01:33:03,239 --> 01:33:06,399
not look great, like he was injured, hasn't looked great since.

2029
01:33:06,800 --> 01:33:09,119
And then it's well, Cason Wallace is just so limited

2030
01:33:09,319 --> 01:33:12,199
And it's because they have now this might have been

2031
01:33:13,199 --> 01:33:15,039
Chet would have had a stronger case last season, not

2032
01:33:15,079 --> 01:33:17,359
only because he wasn't healthy, I mean because he was healthy.

2033
01:33:17,399 --> 01:33:19,720
Speaker 1: Excuse me, because I say A Hertenstein wasn't there.

2034
01:33:20,159 --> 01:33:22,960
Speaker 3: The team context really does matter because you take Jalen

2035
01:33:23,079 --> 01:33:26,000
out and it's just like SGA has nobody and if

2036
01:33:26,039 --> 01:33:27,960
you take Chet out, which they did, you still have

2037
01:33:27,960 --> 01:33:30,640
Hartenstein and you also have Jadab who could just play center.

2038
01:33:30,720 --> 01:33:33,760
So it's like, yeah, I think it's clear and clear

2039
01:33:33,840 --> 01:33:37,720
that's probably Jalen Williams. But isn't that just nuts to

2040
01:33:37,760 --> 01:33:40,520
think to say because of how good chat can be?

2041
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:44,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and but the other by the way, I

2042
01:33:44,600 --> 01:33:46,920
didn't give this to until now. If you're really a

2043
01:33:46,920 --> 01:33:51,279
believer in Nicola topicch, the answer could like does excu

2044
01:33:51,399 --> 01:33:51,880
chat at all?

2045
01:33:51,880 --> 01:33:52,079
Speaker 1: And that?

2046
01:33:52,119 --> 01:33:53,800
Speaker 2: And with some people think like, well, if you got

2047
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:57,439
rid of j Dubb, could Aaron Wiggins scale up even

2048
01:33:57,479 --> 01:34:01,119
more the thunder? That's fascinating, But this is a tough choice.

2049
01:34:01,159 --> 01:34:03,399
I would just skew Dadub. I think he's like more

2050
01:34:03,439 --> 01:34:06,000
anomalist for what he does. And then the team context

2051
01:34:06,039 --> 01:34:08,359
kind of seals it for me. Maybe I feel differently

2052
01:34:08,399 --> 01:34:11,800
if we saw more of them without Ja Dubb though, right, Yeah,

2053
01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:13,840
I am not gonna enjoy taking this next one.

2054
01:34:13,840 --> 01:34:17,680
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, good, okay, Dan, we got Orlando another

2055
01:34:18,119 --> 01:34:21,920
just back to backs here, uh, Franz Wagner, Paulo Bankkaro.

2056
01:34:22,760 --> 01:34:25,840
Speaker 2: I'm basically going off just vibes at that, But my

2057
01:34:25,920 --> 01:34:28,439
feel is still I'm picking Palo bank Caro, and I

2058
01:34:28,520 --> 01:34:30,920
don't in the moment, it doesn't feel like.

2059
01:34:30,880 --> 01:34:31,600
Speaker 1: The right answer.

2060
01:34:31,640 --> 01:34:34,479
Speaker 2: And neither of them have played particularly well since coming

2061
01:34:34,479 --> 01:34:37,600
back from injury, but Palo Banko has looked a lot worse.

2062
01:34:38,000 --> 01:34:40,960
I still just look at him and it's I do

2063
01:34:41,000 --> 01:34:43,800
believe that he's the better passer. And when you're gonna

2064
01:34:43,800 --> 01:34:46,239
see who's if both of them are on the floor,

2065
01:34:46,600 --> 01:34:49,880
who's going to command like more of the defensive attention,

2066
01:34:50,520 --> 01:34:53,239
like Palo bank Caro to me, and I think that

2067
01:34:53,439 --> 01:34:57,680
peak And this is maybe I'm still underrating Franz Wagner's playmaking.

2068
01:34:58,359 --> 01:35:01,199
I just I don't you know, I think that Pala

2069
01:35:01,199 --> 01:35:04,000
bank Carro has the the higher ceiling for all that

2070
01:35:04,039 --> 01:35:07,079
he can do, like the scoring versatility when he's on

2071
01:35:07,119 --> 01:35:11,760
the ball, And it's I hate, I hate picking this

2072
01:35:11,840 --> 01:35:15,079
because Franz is Remember the question I posted to you,

2073
01:35:15,119 --> 01:35:18,039
like I think over the offseason was kind of okay,

2074
01:35:18,560 --> 01:35:21,960
are we excuse me? Like is it Jalen Suggs or

2075
01:35:22,000 --> 01:35:24,279
Franz Wagner. But now it's become like Palo bank Caro

2076
01:35:24,680 --> 01:35:27,439
or Fanz Wagner. And that's a testament where Franz is

2077
01:35:27,479 --> 01:35:30,640
doing and I'm curious to see what if anyone like

2078
01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:33,159
let us know in the comments our discord, who would

2079
01:35:33,159 --> 01:35:33,800
you be picking here?

2080
01:35:33,800 --> 01:35:35,399
Speaker 1: If your magic fans like, are you picking?

2081
01:35:35,399 --> 01:35:37,760
Speaker 2: As Franz shown enough this year where it's like, yeah,

2082
01:35:37,800 --> 01:35:42,880
he shouldered probably like tougher defensive assignments, like who's guarding him?

2083
01:35:43,159 --> 01:35:44,800
That had so much to do with Palo Bank Carroll

2084
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:48,359
being absent overall, I think I don't is he and

2085
01:35:48,479 --> 01:35:51,840
is Palm more important? Because if you decide that Franz

2086
01:35:51,880 --> 01:35:55,039
Vagner is the more important player, like you, like, can

2087
01:35:55,079 --> 01:35:57,279
Pala Bank Carroll be on this team? Whereas if you

2088
01:35:57,359 --> 01:35:59,520
decide that Palo Bank Carro is the engine of your offense,

2089
01:35:59,560 --> 01:36:02,479
like Franz can very clearly still be on this team.

2090
01:36:03,079 --> 01:36:09,439
Speaker 3: So would you agree that Franz has played However, albeit

2091
01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:13,279
briefly earlier this season. I'm talking about at a higher

2092
01:36:13,359 --> 01:36:18,920
level than Paolo has ever reached, because we had Franz

2093
01:36:19,000 --> 01:36:22,039
fifth in MVP voting when we first did it, and

2094
01:36:22,079 --> 01:36:25,000
he was an All NBA first team guy at that point.

2095
01:36:25,199 --> 01:36:26,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was a longer I would say, like

2096
01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:30,119
the Palo Bank Caro we saw like for the playoffs

2097
01:36:30,159 --> 01:36:32,640
last year, even though they ended up losing I think

2098
01:36:32,720 --> 01:36:35,199
that's a higher level than we've ever seen from Franz.

2099
01:36:35,279 --> 01:36:40,479
But but Franz did it for longer and without Palo

2100
01:36:40,560 --> 01:36:43,159
bank Cao, so that's given.

2101
01:36:43,279 --> 01:36:47,800
Speaker 3: That's my main hang up. I'm still going Paolo, and

2102
01:36:47,840 --> 01:36:52,640
the reason is it's it's you can't really say this

2103
01:36:52,760 --> 01:36:56,840
fairly about anybody this young talking about either of them.

2104
01:36:57,279 --> 01:37:01,199
I don't know what Franz does to get significantly better,

2105
01:37:01,359 --> 01:37:05,079
whereas Paolo I think may not need to get much

2106
01:37:05,119 --> 01:37:07,560
better because, like you said, like that playoff run was

2107
01:37:07,840 --> 01:37:12,800
something I think. I still think there's more room for

2108
01:37:12,880 --> 01:37:17,039
Bancaro to improve, and I think it's likelier that he

2109
01:37:17,119 --> 01:37:19,479
does get better and the other The other key thing

2110
01:37:19,560 --> 01:37:22,720
is like his size, Like they're both big wings. Polo

2111
01:37:22,880 --> 01:37:27,680
is just like he's he's like a throwback power forward

2112
01:37:27,800 --> 01:37:32,520
size that has like Carmelo Anthony tendencies offensively, So like

2113
01:37:33,119 --> 01:37:36,399
I think he's the guy that more so than Franz,

2114
01:37:36,600 --> 01:37:39,319
Like you get to points in games where the defense

2115
01:37:39,359 --> 01:37:41,720
has no answer, like there's just you can't there's not

2116
01:37:41,840 --> 01:37:45,199
a guy that can stop him, and then you have

2117
01:37:45,279 --> 01:37:47,640
to just change, you scrap your whole plan and change it.

2118
01:37:47,680 --> 01:37:50,920
I don't think Franz quite does that, and I do

2119
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:54,640
think that coupled with with Bancaro's odds of just getting better,

2120
01:37:55,079 --> 01:37:58,279
I think I think it has to be him. It's

2121
01:37:58,279 --> 01:38:00,800
it's unbelievable and a huge testament of Wagner that like,

2122
01:38:00,880 --> 01:38:03,439
this is a conversation. I think that's where I would

2123
01:38:03,520 --> 01:38:07,880
leave it, because you know, I think Paolo offensively has

2124
01:38:08,600 --> 01:38:10,880
I mean, he could be someone that is if he

2125
01:38:10,880 --> 01:38:12,800
has a thirty points a game season, it'd be like

2126
01:38:13,279 --> 01:38:16,000
just one like that. I think that's out there for sure.

2127
01:38:16,560 --> 01:38:18,600
Speaker 2: It's when you watch it move with the ball, it

2128
01:38:18,640 --> 01:38:20,600
doesn't make sense, right, that's.

2129
01:38:20,520 --> 01:38:24,000
Speaker 3: So big and so like nimble and mobile and still powerful.

2130
01:38:24,039 --> 01:38:27,720
It's just like he's he's a problem. Yeah, so I

2131
01:38:27,720 --> 01:38:30,399
think that's the right answer. But we both are way unconvinced,

2132
01:38:30,399 --> 01:38:33,359
which is either us being cowards or it's at least

2133
01:38:33,359 --> 01:38:34,960
a testament to Franz Wabner or both.

2134
01:38:36,000 --> 01:38:39,119
Speaker 2: Okay, this is this is interesting. I actually think Philly,

2135
01:38:39,680 --> 01:38:41,239
Jared McCain or Paul George.

2136
01:38:42,239 --> 01:38:48,079
Speaker 3: I mean, so we do need to discuss their window

2137
01:38:48,399 --> 01:38:52,520
because what is it, you know, like if if they're

2138
01:38:52,560 --> 01:38:56,600
gonna run it back with him b after several experimental surgeries,

2139
01:38:56,720 --> 01:38:59,640
this summer then like it just sort of has to

2140
01:38:59,680 --> 01:39:03,720
be George, which you know, I think you can't just

2141
01:39:03,800 --> 01:39:06,520
onboard a guy at a four year MAX who's in

2142
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:10,439
his mid thirties and and just then start the rebuild.

2143
01:39:10,560 --> 01:39:13,239
I don't think even though like every other sign points

2144
01:39:13,279 --> 01:39:17,479
to that being the right decision, I think it has

2145
01:39:17,560 --> 01:39:22,000
to be George because of the shorter window that's just

2146
01:39:22,039 --> 01:39:25,840
built around EMBIID, and and I don't think even though

2147
01:39:25,880 --> 01:39:28,239
it might be the right call to just like, let's pivot,

2148
01:39:28,359 --> 01:39:31,359
they just can't. They're pop committed with embiid's extension and

2149
01:39:31,399 --> 01:39:38,000
everything else. It should be McCain. It should be McCain, yes,

2150
01:39:38,079 --> 01:39:40,239
because you would have wanted I think you should want

2151
01:39:40,239 --> 01:39:42,680
it to be McCain. But I think it's George.

2152
01:39:43,239 --> 01:39:45,079
Speaker 1: Well, comean counter.

2153
01:39:45,239 --> 01:39:47,079
Speaker 2: I'm the George would be the answer because I think

2154
01:39:47,119 --> 01:39:51,159
circumstances demand it. You can't just trade Paul George with

2155
01:39:51,319 --> 01:39:54,239
on that. I wouldn't think anyway. Well, I mean maybe

2156
01:39:54,279 --> 01:39:56,399
you could. I think people would dam want it. My

2157
01:39:56,479 --> 01:40:00,239
whole thing is what is like for Jared McCain to

2158
01:40:00,399 --> 01:40:02,720
be more? I guess it's the baseline just Paul George.

2159
01:40:02,760 --> 01:40:04,520
Like what is Jared McCain to a team that has

2160
01:40:04,560 --> 01:40:05,359
Tyree's MAXI.

2161
01:40:06,159 --> 01:40:09,399
Speaker 3: Well, so what I'm saying is like, that's totally a

2162
01:40:09,479 --> 01:40:14,119
valid question, I think, because it's just McCain or George, Like,

2163
01:40:14,279 --> 01:40:17,039
that's part of why it's George. But what you would

2164
01:40:17,119 --> 01:40:20,560
like is for like McCain to be in a situation

2165
01:40:20,720 --> 01:40:25,239
where overall he like, you're not so concerned about that

2166
01:40:25,319 --> 01:40:27,439
because you're just starting over and you want young, the

2167
01:40:27,479 --> 01:40:28,399
young talent.

2168
01:40:28,199 --> 01:40:31,800
Speaker 1: Like that's what you can about. Yeah, I Philly's just

2169
01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:33,439
we're supposed to get where. I've been waiting.

2170
01:40:33,439 --> 01:40:35,479
Speaker 2: I've been checking my phone like every five seconds because

2171
01:40:35,840 --> 01:40:38,520
Nick Nurse said, uh that I think the Sixers are

2172
01:40:38,520 --> 01:40:40,680
playing the Warriors, right, He's gonna be out for that game.

2173
01:40:41,319 --> 01:40:44,279
Maybe I'm getting the team wrong, but we're like they

2174
01:40:44,359 --> 01:40:46,399
keep saying there was reporting and that Nick Nurse kind

2175
01:40:46,399 --> 01:40:48,720
of said it, but there'll be more news soon, which

2176
01:40:48,760 --> 01:40:50,039
just sounds super ominous.

2177
01:40:50,239 --> 01:40:52,960
Speaker 3: It's just gonna be a shutdown's cut down, which.

2178
01:40:52,800 --> 01:40:53,760
Speaker 1: Is probably the right call.

2179
01:40:53,800 --> 01:40:56,159
Speaker 2: I do think in retrospect, based off the reporting we've

2180
01:40:56,199 --> 01:40:59,479
now seen, I really believe we collectively oversimplified it because

2181
01:40:59,479 --> 01:41:02,800
I kind of appreciate the dilemma that they were going

2182
01:41:02,800 --> 01:41:04,560
through with and be like you could get through? Should

2183
01:41:04,560 --> 01:41:06,079
they have then gone all in on Paul George paid

2184
01:41:06,119 --> 01:41:09,279
Embid if there was this much uncertainty. But they don't

2185
01:41:09,319 --> 01:41:11,359
have an answer, and so they've been trying different shit.

2186
01:41:11,439 --> 01:41:13,800
It just hasn't worked, and nothing may work. So I'm

2187
01:41:13,800 --> 01:41:15,880
a little bit more empathetic to like kind of the

2188
01:41:15,920 --> 01:41:17,520
Sixer situation than a lot.

2189
01:41:17,359 --> 01:41:18,039
Speaker 1: Of other people.

2190
01:41:18,840 --> 01:41:21,840
Speaker 2: What I will say is like, is there just a

2191
01:41:21,840 --> 01:41:25,960
scenario where if we did this in June, that McCain

2192
01:41:26,079 --> 01:41:29,640
is the answer? Because I'll say this, right, what would

2193
01:41:29,680 --> 01:41:32,199
it actually take. Is there a scenario where the Sixers

2194
01:41:32,199 --> 01:41:34,760
don't move Embiid or we don't decide that Embiid has

2195
01:41:34,840 --> 01:41:36,560
just done that McCain could be the answer.

2196
01:41:37,760 --> 01:41:40,359
Speaker 3: I don't think it could be. I think what you're

2197
01:41:40,359 --> 01:41:42,399
saying is right, Like, it would have to mean if

2198
01:41:42,479 --> 01:41:45,760
McCain is the answer, it means you've traded Embeid or

2199
01:41:46,319 --> 01:41:50,520
like cause the Maxi fit is like it's just an

2200
01:41:50,520 --> 01:41:54,239
issue and so many other things would have to change

2201
01:41:54,239 --> 01:41:56,960
for McCain to be in that position. I just don't

2202
01:41:57,000 --> 01:41:58,119
I don't think it's realistic.

2203
01:41:58,439 --> 01:42:01,880
Speaker 1: Grant, who do we got from this? This is so sad.

2204
01:42:02,199 --> 01:42:04,840
Speaker 3: Oh Man, I'm glad I get to ask you for Phoenix,

2205
01:42:04,960 --> 01:42:06,640
Ryan Dunn or OsO Igadaro.

2206
01:42:07,119 --> 01:42:08,439
Speaker 1: So this is interesting.

2207
01:42:08,680 --> 01:42:11,720
Speaker 2: I think it's ohso Igadaro because the Suns are fucked

2208
01:42:11,880 --> 01:42:14,439
like it's just whatever's gonna happen with them this summer.

2209
01:42:14,479 --> 01:42:17,399
I will be at least Kevin Duran is getting traded

2210
01:42:17,439 --> 01:42:18,119
at this point.

2211
01:42:18,840 --> 01:42:19,800
Speaker 1: You could circle back.

2212
01:42:19,680 --> 01:42:21,399
Speaker 2: For something that we're gonna Hopeully record in a second,

2213
01:42:21,399 --> 01:42:23,079
Like it wouldn't shock me if Devin Booker is getting

2214
01:42:23,119 --> 01:42:27,279
tired of this shit too, uh, because remember we talked

2215
01:42:27,279 --> 01:42:29,760
about this with Timani Kamara that he seems to have

2216
01:42:29,800 --> 01:42:32,760
more value to a good team than he would a

2217
01:42:32,760 --> 01:42:35,880
team like the Blazers. Now he has proceeded to transcend that.

2218
01:42:36,079 --> 01:42:38,880
Ryan Dunn does not have nearly the offensive skill set

2219
01:42:38,960 --> 01:42:41,680
that Tamani kamaras shown. He also doesn't kind of have

2220
01:42:41,720 --> 01:42:44,159
the same positional range on defense. So I look at

2221
01:42:44,159 --> 01:42:46,439
OsO Igadaro and as someone has a long term just

2222
01:42:46,479 --> 01:42:49,800
big man prospect, I think whether the Suns kind of

2223
01:42:49,840 --> 01:42:53,279
cater to the present, the medium term, the long term,

2224
01:42:53,600 --> 01:42:56,319
that's just someone who might be more likely to carve

2225
01:42:56,399 --> 01:43:02,000
out a higher volume role for Phoenix and I like,

2226
01:43:02,239 --> 01:43:04,600
I guess that could be wrong, but I when I

2227
01:43:04,680 --> 01:43:07,560
keep looking at it, I don't know what does Ryan

2228
01:43:07,640 --> 01:43:10,960
Don need to do then to like be the answer,

2229
01:43:11,520 --> 01:43:12,920
Like it's just like what would you need to see

2230
01:43:12,920 --> 01:43:15,600
from him on offense? And yes, I know, like okay,

2231
01:43:15,600 --> 01:43:18,439
like he's technically he's played more minutes this season, but

2232
01:43:19,119 --> 01:43:21,000
I still just lean a guitar up because I think

2233
01:43:21,000 --> 01:43:23,840
he's more versatile for the position that he's gonna play,

2234
01:43:23,840 --> 01:43:26,560
Like there's a chance that he becomes an offensive asset,

2235
01:43:26,600 --> 01:43:29,359
whereas Ryan Done. We all kind of were sold on

2236
01:43:29,439 --> 01:43:32,479
the shooting at one point and then it tapers off.

2237
01:43:32,760 --> 01:43:35,279
So I think it ends up being Oh so if

2238
01:43:35,279 --> 01:43:38,239
the Suns were actual contenders, I think.

2239
01:43:38,039 --> 01:43:40,560
Speaker 1: Done is the answer, If that makes any sense.

2240
01:43:40,800 --> 01:43:44,720
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, the time horizon, I don't you know,

2241
01:43:44,720 --> 01:43:46,319
the time horizon doesn't change it a lot for me.

2242
01:43:46,359 --> 01:43:48,079
I like a guitar a lot. I think it's done

2243
01:43:48,079 --> 01:43:53,000
because he needs to do one thing really well to

2244
01:43:53,119 --> 01:43:56,359
suddenly be super valuable, and I don't think it's very

2245
01:43:56,439 --> 01:43:58,279
likely that he'll do that one thing, which is like

2246
01:43:58,359 --> 01:44:03,359
let's say shoot thirty eight percent on threes at like

2247
01:44:03,520 --> 01:44:07,760
volume that defenses care about. Because then then then he's

2248
01:44:07,800 --> 01:44:10,720
a real piece, like and you know guys with his

2249
01:44:10,800 --> 01:44:13,800
track record, it's just you know, I'm not sure where

2250
01:44:13,800 --> 01:44:15,359
I land. I go back and forth on the like

2251
01:44:15,439 --> 01:44:17,960
you can shoot it or you can't camp and they're like,

2252
01:44:18,000 --> 01:44:19,720
well you can look because you get the guys like

2253
01:44:19,720 --> 01:44:22,319
I don't know, Bruce Bowen, you's like a million years ago,

2254
01:44:22,399 --> 01:44:24,479
or like Dori and Phinney Smith, or like there's more

2255
01:44:24,479 --> 01:44:27,239
contemporary examples of guys that like got just good enough

2256
01:44:27,760 --> 01:44:31,479
to make the defense and wing size play. I think

2257
01:44:31,720 --> 01:44:34,840
that potential and because it's just just do the one thing,

2258
01:44:34,920 --> 01:44:37,760
like there's no mystery about what Ryanda needs to do.

2259
01:44:38,239 --> 01:44:40,159
And I think there's a decent enough chance that he

2260
01:44:40,199 --> 01:44:42,920
gets good enough as a shooter to where it's like

2261
01:44:43,039 --> 01:44:46,039
we're talking about him as you know, not Cam Johnson,

2262
01:44:46,159 --> 01:44:48,920
but like you know, some someone similar where it's like

2263
01:44:48,960 --> 01:44:51,600
we all every team wants a piece of that. Who's

2264
01:44:51,640 --> 01:44:54,159
more important Kevin Duran and Bradley Beidle this on future

2265
01:44:55,439 --> 01:44:57,279
I mean Bradley Biale because he's in charge of it.

2266
01:44:57,920 --> 01:45:01,319
Speaker 1: So for Portland we settled on this one. You could

2267
01:45:01,319 --> 01:45:03,840
just another team. We could have went different directions. Donovan

2268
01:45:04,000 --> 01:45:05,920
Klingen or Tamani Kamara Grant.

2269
01:45:06,000 --> 01:45:07,720
Speaker 3: This is a fun one. There's a little bit of

2270
01:45:07,800 --> 01:45:14,920
Jalen Well Zach Edy here I and I went Edie.

2271
01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:17,760
So I feel like, just for consistency's sake, I should

2272
01:45:17,760 --> 01:45:23,560
say Clinging. I think I'm gonna go Kamara. Uh, because

2273
01:45:24,000 --> 01:45:26,800
Klingon still has you know, he's a rookie, but he's

2274
01:45:26,840 --> 01:45:29,800
been such a still a low minute player so far,

2275
01:45:29,960 --> 01:45:31,840
which is I don't know, maybe that's just the makeup

2276
01:45:31,880 --> 01:45:33,920
of the team in Portland, just trying to thread that

2277
01:45:34,000 --> 01:45:38,479
weird needle of winning and developing. I could still just

2278
01:45:38,479 --> 01:45:40,960
see Clinging. Clingon might have a superpower, might be the

2279
01:45:41,000 --> 01:45:44,000
shop blocker, offensive rebounder, like you've got to account for.

2280
01:45:45,119 --> 01:45:45,800
Speaker 1: Uh.

2281
01:45:46,000 --> 01:45:49,079
Speaker 3: I think Kamara is just so good, Like he's so

2282
01:45:49,239 --> 01:45:52,000
good to Kamara does have a superpower, like there's no

2283
01:45:52,039 --> 01:45:55,760
doubt about it. He is an elite defensive player and

2284
01:45:56,199 --> 01:45:59,159
fits everywhere because of that. So I think it's Kamara,

2285
01:45:59,680 --> 01:46:03,520
But you probably should acknowledge that Clingon might be like

2286
01:46:03,560 --> 01:46:06,680
a special quote unquote conventional big.

2287
01:46:07,439 --> 01:46:08,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a FIRS.

2288
01:46:08,159 --> 01:46:11,039
Speaker 2: I mean if depending on how much you factor in minutes,

2289
01:46:11,039 --> 01:46:12,560
he's a first team All rookie case, I think, And

2290
01:46:12,600 --> 01:46:14,960
that's kind of the So the two deciding factors are

2291
01:46:15,680 --> 01:46:18,079
like Portland doesn't seem to view him as like a

2292
01:46:18,119 --> 01:46:20,439
high minute big right now. And I understand that there's

2293
01:46:20,479 --> 01:46:23,479
alternatives on the roster, but I'm wondering if that's more

2294
01:46:23,479 --> 01:46:26,479
of a like not a bug. But it's like their plan,

2295
01:46:26,720 --> 01:46:27,439
like this isn't just.

2296
01:46:27,439 --> 01:46:29,359
Speaker 1: A one off. Maybe they just want him build up

2297
01:46:29,359 --> 01:46:30,960
his staima and he had an injury that he dealt

2298
01:46:30,960 --> 01:46:31,680
with previously.

2299
01:46:32,159 --> 01:46:34,840
Speaker 2: But I think when we picked Edie over Wells, one

2300
01:46:34,840 --> 01:46:37,600
of the things I factored in was, Okay, Jalen Wells, Like,

2301
01:46:37,600 --> 01:46:39,600
how's he gonna fare against like the bigger type of

2302
01:46:39,640 --> 01:46:41,520
way like Tomaniy Kamar just defends everybody.

2303
01:46:41,640 --> 01:46:43,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so that coupled with.

2304
01:46:43,039 --> 01:46:45,359
Speaker 2: The high minutes that he's playing, I think that makes

2305
01:46:45,439 --> 01:46:48,960
him the answer as well. But you are, like you said, Kanavan,

2306
01:46:48,960 --> 01:46:51,640
Clinton has a superpower, but like Tomani Kamar's defense is

2307
01:46:51,640 --> 01:46:54,640
his superpower where it's not Jalen Wells. Doesn't it feel

2308
01:46:54,680 --> 01:46:57,920
like not that he's only competent, but you appreciate the fight,

2309
01:46:58,079 --> 01:47:00,840
and with Timany Kamar, it's no, we're just appreciating a

2310
01:47:00,920 --> 01:47:02,079
racure and disruption.

2311
01:47:02,359 --> 01:47:05,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Wells, yeah right, that's that's so right. Well,

2312
01:47:05,239 --> 01:47:07,439
part of what makes Wells impressive is like, man, that

2313
01:47:07,479 --> 01:47:10,560
guy's giving it everything he's got. Like he's a little undersized,

2314
01:47:10,560 --> 01:47:13,000
like he's not a great athlete, but he gets it done.

2315
01:47:13,039 --> 01:47:16,239
Kamara is like overwhelming in a very different way.

2316
01:47:17,239 --> 01:47:18,880
Speaker 1: That was an interesting one. Would you have picked? It's

2317
01:47:18,960 --> 01:47:21,079
very Is it still Scoot over shading for you?

2318
01:47:21,319 --> 01:47:23,319
Speaker 3: Or I don't know, after that dunk, we might just

2319
01:47:23,359 --> 01:47:25,159
have to say shade and that that one's up there.

2320
01:47:25,159 --> 01:47:26,920
A lot of times you see that things come across

2321
01:47:27,000 --> 01:47:29,359
the wire where it's like potential dunk of the year

2322
01:47:29,399 --> 01:47:31,800
and you're like, man, it's like nope, that that sharp dunk.

2323
01:47:32,039 --> 01:47:35,520
Really it's gonna be top three. Uh it's Scoot though.

2324
01:47:35,600 --> 01:47:39,039
Scoot's just you know, he's he's the potential offensive engine.

2325
01:47:39,079 --> 01:47:41,640
Like that's that's what he's supposed to Be's not that guy?

2326
01:47:41,760 --> 01:47:43,479
Speaker 1: Okay, Oh, it just wants you to give to me

2327
01:47:43,640 --> 01:47:44,319
good Uh.

2328
01:47:44,479 --> 01:47:48,520
Speaker 3: Sacramento Kings make a decision Dan Demonista Bonus or Keegan Murray.

2329
01:47:49,000 --> 01:47:53,199
Speaker 2: Now waiting, how I know how the King's front office

2330
01:47:53,199 --> 01:47:57,039
and ownership are going to treat the team is more important,

2331
01:47:57,159 --> 01:47:59,439
And I think that if you are looking to be

2332
01:47:59,560 --> 01:48:02,720
competitive and you need the fulcrum of what you're gonna

2333
01:48:02,720 --> 01:48:06,520
build around offensively, the answer is DeMont Is Sabonis.

2334
01:48:06,560 --> 01:48:10,000
Speaker 1: So I just he's provided some stretch. There's the playmaking.

2335
01:48:10,039 --> 01:48:12,239
Speaker 2: I mean, if they ever what would be the players

2336
01:48:12,439 --> 01:48:14,560
want to spoil something we'll talk about in eventual podcasts,

2337
01:48:14,600 --> 01:48:17,479
like how many players would get substantially worse if like

2338
01:48:17,520 --> 01:48:20,640
they started enforcing like off arm rules to where you

2339
01:48:20,680 --> 01:48:23,840
could really use that well, like a shanng Goon a Sabona.

2340
01:48:24,079 --> 01:48:26,760
Speaker 3: There's a certain MVP candidate right now that might have

2341
01:48:26,800 --> 01:48:27,880
a little bit of a hard time.

2342
01:48:28,399 --> 01:48:33,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's just he's hyper efficient. Now I think

2343
01:48:33,720 --> 01:48:35,760
there's he's one of those players where I mean the

2344
01:48:35,840 --> 01:48:38,479
Kings have two of them on the roster right now.

2345
01:48:38,760 --> 01:48:40,840
When you look at their value in the regular season

2346
01:48:40,920 --> 01:48:44,079
versus the playoffs, there's a really big difference because scheming

2347
01:48:44,079 --> 01:48:46,119
around them gets a lot easier. And it's the same

2348
01:48:46,119 --> 01:48:48,159
thing with DeMar de Rozen who also happens to be

2349
01:48:48,600 --> 01:48:52,840
on Sacramento. But like this goes beyond eating innings, Like

2350
01:48:52,880 --> 01:48:54,960
he might make All NBA this year and deserve it.

2351
01:48:55,000 --> 01:48:57,199
I think he deserved an All Stars spot. Like the

2352
01:48:57,319 --> 01:48:59,680
number you could feel how you feel about his defensive

2353
01:48:59,680 --> 01:49:03,079
limited The numbers are the numbers when you're looking at

2354
01:49:03,119 --> 01:49:05,680
someone who's just like his true shooting percentages through the roof,

2355
01:49:05,840 --> 01:49:08,439
shooting the lights out from three on, not a ton

2356
01:49:08,479 --> 01:49:12,039
of volume, but some like modest volume. There is the passing.

2357
01:49:12,079 --> 01:49:15,239
Do I think he's as versatile of a passers like

2358
01:49:15,359 --> 01:49:17,920
on the level of a Nicole Yaton Like no, absolutely not,

2359
01:49:18,119 --> 01:49:21,279
but like the playmaking out of handoffs, the playment, like

2360
01:49:21,319 --> 01:49:23,199
just his screen setting, the ability to bring the ball

2361
01:49:23,239 --> 01:49:25,640
up the floor. This is this is an all Star.

2362
01:49:25,760 --> 01:49:27,880
This is a star player, and Keithan Murray is not

2363
01:49:28,239 --> 01:49:29,800
a star player. I think he's someone who has the

2364
01:49:29,800 --> 01:49:31,880
ability to make them all defense. I don't really know

2365
01:49:31,920 --> 01:49:34,479
what to make of his offensive ceiling because he's one

2366
01:49:34,520 --> 01:49:36,880
been on so many different iterations of the Kings, and

2367
01:49:36,920 --> 01:49:39,720
two I would say none of those. Maybe one of those,

2368
01:49:39,760 --> 01:49:42,119
like the earliest iterations, might have featured them trying different

2369
01:49:42,119 --> 01:49:45,279
stuff with him offensively. So yeah, I think it's the

2370
01:49:45,319 --> 01:49:47,760
bonus here, and I think it's at this point, given

2371
01:49:47,800 --> 01:49:50,479
what we know about the Kings, that's a pretty concrete

2372
01:49:50,520 --> 01:49:51,239
answer from me.

2373
01:49:51,479 --> 01:49:53,800
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. It's the bonus. Like, I think, the

2374
01:49:53,840 --> 01:49:57,720
only way you talk yourself into Murray is you significantly

2375
01:49:57,800 --> 01:50:00,720
lengthen you make the Kings a really four thinking team,

2376
01:50:00,840 --> 01:50:04,720
which they're not. And you also say there's way more

2377
01:50:04,880 --> 01:50:07,640
in Murray's offensive game than we've seen. And the only

2378
01:50:07,680 --> 01:50:10,279
reason it's not, you know, hasn't shown up is because

2379
01:50:10,279 --> 01:50:13,439
of the circumstances, because of the the offense first players

2380
01:50:13,479 --> 01:50:16,119
he's out there with. I think that that's some there's

2381
01:50:16,159 --> 01:50:18,439
some of that. I think mostly he's just wired to

2382
01:50:18,520 --> 01:50:21,000
not be a guy that is going to really fire

2383
01:50:21,039 --> 01:50:24,720
off fifteen shots a night like twenty. I forget twenty.

2384
01:50:24,800 --> 01:50:27,640
He's just that's not. I don't know what you would

2385
01:50:27,640 --> 01:50:30,640
point to to say that that's what he'll become offensively,

2386
01:50:31,000 --> 01:50:33,039
And for this to be even a contest he would

2387
01:50:33,079 --> 01:50:34,800
have you'd have to believe that about him.

2388
01:50:35,159 --> 01:50:38,159
Speaker 2: Ron and the San Antonio Spurs, who are yours? Devin

2389
01:50:38,239 --> 01:50:40,039
Vessel or Stephan Castle.

2390
01:50:41,479 --> 01:50:45,560
Speaker 3: I mean, Vassell has been the better player and been

2391
01:50:45,600 --> 01:50:47,960
around longer, has a track record of like got some

2392
01:50:48,039 --> 01:50:51,079
Bradley Beal in him, with maybe a little more defensive playmaking.

2393
01:50:51,159 --> 01:50:58,000
Potentially it's still Castle because the spurs are Now, if

2394
01:50:58,039 --> 01:50:59,920
you had Wemby healthy and they'd gone on a run

2395
01:51:00,000 --> 01:51:01,560
and they were in the range of like, oh I

2396
01:51:01,640 --> 01:51:04,439
might get the sixth seed or something, it probably should

2397
01:51:04,479 --> 01:51:06,359
be the Cell because you should be trying to win

2398
01:51:06,439 --> 01:51:08,680
now because you've got a generational player that's really good

2399
01:51:08,680 --> 01:51:12,119
already and you just traded for Fox. It still just

2400
01:51:12,159 --> 01:51:16,319
needs to be Castle because the massive mystery box potential,

2401
01:51:16,399 --> 01:51:19,319
Like is he a high usage on ball guard if

2402
01:51:19,319 --> 01:51:22,880
he learns to shoot? Is he a wing that guards everybody?

2403
01:51:23,039 --> 01:51:25,039
Speaker 1: Is he like a I don't know?

2404
01:51:25,119 --> 01:51:27,159
Speaker 3: Is he appear too like I just I don't know.

2405
01:51:28,319 --> 01:51:31,359
Is he Drew Holliday like I don't know, Like, we'll see.

2406
01:51:31,800 --> 01:51:34,479
It's the potential, it's the athleticism, it's the smarts, it's

2407
01:51:34,520 --> 01:51:36,680
all the little glimpses and stuff. And he's had plenty

2408
01:51:36,680 --> 01:51:39,199
of valleys next to the peaks this year. That's just

2409
01:51:39,319 --> 01:51:43,439
rookie stuff. The shootings a massive question. I think it's

2410
01:51:43,439 --> 01:51:45,760
a ceiling thing. I guess ultimately is I think Castle

2411
01:51:45,800 --> 01:51:49,039
has the potential to be better than thesell And you know,

2412
01:51:49,479 --> 01:51:52,039
in as little as like two more years, maybe maybe

2413
01:51:52,079 --> 01:51:53,119
even next year, who knows.

2414
01:51:53,640 --> 01:51:56,119
Speaker 2: I agree Castle has the potential to be better than Vessel,

2415
01:51:56,239 --> 01:51:59,039
but because they went and got darn Fox. I think

2416
01:51:59,079 --> 01:52:01,439
the answer is Devin the cell where when you're looking

2417
01:52:01,479 --> 01:52:04,319
at this from a team optimization perspective, you need to

2418
01:52:04,439 --> 01:52:08,000
me Steph Castle to be a player that he is

2419
01:52:08,039 --> 01:52:09,600
not shown to be on offense just yet.

2420
01:52:09,640 --> 01:52:10,640
Speaker 1: Now you're scaling ahead.

2421
01:52:10,640 --> 01:52:13,640
Speaker 2: The Spurs are playing a longer term game than many

2422
01:52:13,680 --> 01:52:16,239
of these other teams, so I understand it. I also

2423
01:52:16,279 --> 01:52:18,760
we know I'm way higher on Devin Vessel as an

2424
01:52:18,800 --> 01:52:22,640
on ball player off ball player than consensus. So Steph

2425
01:52:22,720 --> 01:52:25,079
Castle's defense like that's a superpower though, And I think

2426
01:52:25,119 --> 01:52:27,279
you can look at Devissel and say, what is his superpower?

2427
01:52:27,560 --> 01:52:28,520
Speaker 1: He doesn't have one.

2428
01:52:28,640 --> 01:52:32,359
Speaker 2: I'm more so betting on, excuse me, the well roundedness

2429
01:52:32,399 --> 01:52:36,239
of what he can do versus I guess betting it again,

2430
01:52:36,279 --> 01:52:39,199
like you know, compare contrasting it against what I think

2431
01:52:39,239 --> 01:52:41,079
Steph Castle is gonna be on offense. And my answer

2432
01:52:41,119 --> 01:52:43,239
there is I don't really know, Like I don't think.

2433
01:52:43,439 --> 01:52:45,159
I don't think you go out and get the Aaron

2434
01:52:45,159 --> 01:52:47,119
Fox inesssily if you think that he's ever gonna be

2435
01:52:47,279 --> 01:52:50,600
sort of a primary initiator type. And then if he's

2436
01:52:50,680 --> 01:52:54,960
not that I don't necessarily trust him in an off

2437
01:52:55,039 --> 01:52:58,760
guards role offensively, and look, maybe that's just I'm misreading

2438
01:52:58,760 --> 01:52:59,760
what his ceiling is gonna be.

2439
01:53:00,039 --> 01:53:00,600
Speaker 1: I agree.

2440
01:53:00,800 --> 01:53:02,560
Speaker 2: I think because of what already he's done on defense

2441
01:53:02,600 --> 01:53:05,279
and even the flashes he has shown as a playmaker,

2442
01:53:05,319 --> 01:53:08,439
the ability to shoot from deeper behind the arc, like

2443
01:53:08,479 --> 01:53:10,600
take those shots, not necessarily make them. To be clear,

2444
01:53:10,960 --> 01:53:14,119
I could absolutely see an outcome where he is better

2445
01:53:14,159 --> 01:53:14,840
than Devin Vessel.

2446
01:53:14,880 --> 01:53:16,359
Speaker 1: I'm just not prepared to invest in it.

2447
01:53:16,680 --> 01:53:19,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's fair. It's weird, like if Castle

2448
01:53:19,199 --> 01:53:22,680
had produced exactly like this over like two full years,

2449
01:53:23,119 --> 01:53:25,800
I would just say Vassel. But it's because it's like

2450
01:53:26,119 --> 01:53:27,880
a portion of one year. I think, oh, there's just

2451
01:53:27,880 --> 01:53:28,319
more there.

2452
01:53:28,479 --> 01:53:28,680
Speaker 1: You know.

2453
01:53:28,720 --> 01:53:30,560
Speaker 2: What's interesting, though, is you said that you think Jalen

2454
01:53:30,600 --> 01:53:32,279
Wells is running away with Rookie of the Year, and

2455
01:53:32,319 --> 01:53:34,039
I feel like, if you feel this way about Castle,

2456
01:53:34,079 --> 01:53:35,960
why isn't he running away with Rookie of the Year

2457
01:53:36,000 --> 01:53:36,239
for you?

2458
01:53:36,560 --> 01:53:39,159
Speaker 3: I think if you're if I had to pick between

2459
01:53:39,199 --> 01:53:41,720
who's going to be the better player over their careers,

2460
01:53:41,760 --> 01:53:44,159
I'd picked Castle. I think Wells has just Wells has

2461
01:53:44,159 --> 01:53:46,920
been a positive contributor to a winning team on both ends.

2462
01:53:46,920 --> 01:53:49,119
This season, Wells has just been better as a rookie

2463
01:53:49,359 --> 01:53:52,239
than Castle has. I think the things Castle has shown

2464
01:53:52,439 --> 01:53:55,159
like excite me more than what Wells has shown.

2465
01:53:55,520 --> 01:53:57,479
Speaker 2: You knows, I just asked you about why does it

2466
01:53:57,479 --> 01:53:59,920
now matter in an exercise where we're talking about the future.

2467
01:54:01,920 --> 01:54:03,079
Speaker 3: Oh, you get the raptors?

2468
01:54:03,439 --> 01:54:04,079
Speaker 1: Uh, what are we?

2469
01:54:04,159 --> 01:54:06,199
Speaker 3: Okay, we're gonna do r J Barrett, We're gonna go

2470
01:54:06,279 --> 01:54:08,880
yaka Pearl. That's a that's a that's a mid mid

2471
01:54:09,039 --> 01:54:10,640
comparison if ever ever heard one.

2472
01:54:10,840 --> 01:54:13,399
Speaker 1: Uh, it's the one you picked so or what you

2473
01:54:13,399 --> 01:54:14,359
said that we should go with.

2474
01:54:14,439 --> 01:54:15,359
Speaker 3: That's why it's hard.

2475
01:54:15,640 --> 01:54:18,920
Speaker 1: I'm I'm going with and we just haven't.

2476
01:54:18,960 --> 01:54:20,640
Speaker 2: We don't know what the we're not We know what

2477
01:54:20,680 --> 01:54:23,640
the raptors are doing post Ingram, but like when you

2478
01:54:23,680 --> 01:54:26,680
haven't seen it in practice, it makes it tougher. I

2479
01:54:26,680 --> 01:54:29,000
think Emanual quickly has become way more important than both

2480
01:54:29,000 --> 01:54:30,520
of these dudes following me Ingram trade.

2481
01:54:30,520 --> 01:54:32,279
Speaker 1: So like I wasn't even willing to like necessarily pit

2482
01:54:32,359 --> 01:54:34,520
him against them, or wasn't as intrigued.

2483
01:54:34,760 --> 01:54:36,800
Speaker 3: And you can't use Barns and you can't use Ingram

2484
01:54:36,800 --> 01:54:38,039
so here's that's why we're here.

2485
01:54:38,359 --> 01:54:40,920
Speaker 2: And the other thing for me is we've talked about this,

2486
01:54:41,159 --> 01:54:43,239
and I think some Raptors fans agreed.

2487
01:54:43,319 --> 01:54:44,039
Speaker 1: A lot of them did not.

2488
01:54:45,560 --> 01:54:47,279
Speaker 2: I feel like you need a different type of center

2489
01:54:47,279 --> 01:54:49,479
than Yaka Peertl on this team long term.

2490
01:54:49,479 --> 01:54:50,920
Speaker 1: I don't know. Some people point out that it might

2491
01:54:50,960 --> 01:54:52,720
be like Ulrich Shamphay. I don't.

2492
01:54:52,920 --> 01:54:55,159
Speaker 2: I've not seen enough of him to say that that's

2493
01:54:55,199 --> 01:54:58,920
a distinct possibility. I think they need supercharged Chris Bouchet

2494
01:54:59,439 --> 01:55:02,520
as the five or actual Chris Bouchet probably works. And

2495
01:55:02,560 --> 01:55:06,079
I think also just with Ingram and Barnes and then

2496
01:55:06,119 --> 01:55:10,039
you have Barrett, it does sort of feel like, Okay,

2497
01:55:10,079 --> 01:55:12,720
this team is like not they're not running back projects six'.

2498
01:55:12,880 --> 01:55:15,640
Nine But messiah is still kind of smitten with the wing,

2499
01:55:15,720 --> 01:55:17,399
types and SO i think if he's ever gonna make a,

2500
01:55:17,479 --> 01:55:19,600
change a lot of people framed, as, oh is It

2501
01:55:19,760 --> 01:55:22,279
ingram Or barrett more important to this team moving? FORWARD

2502
01:55:22,319 --> 01:55:24,399
i think this is actually the proper question to ask

2503
01:55:24,640 --> 01:55:28,000
that if you're going to maximize the personnel that you

2504
01:55:28,079 --> 01:55:30,560
have right, now to, me it makes more sense than,

2505
01:55:31,039 --> 01:55:34,680
like within this current team, CONTEXT i think you can SHIFT.

2506
01:55:34,800 --> 01:55:37,159
Rj barrett around to where you're staggering. Players are you

2507
01:55:37,159 --> 01:55:40,279
bringing him off the bench eventually or can he just

2508
01:55:40,319 --> 01:55:44,960
work Alongside scotty and Brandon ingram now With Yaku, pertol it's,

2509
01:55:44,960 --> 01:55:47,119
well he has to play the five if you're not,

2510
01:55:47,159 --> 01:55:48,600
like it doesn't matter whether you bring him off the,

2511
01:55:48,640 --> 01:55:50,439
bench like who is Your we're not worried about staggering

2512
01:55:50,520 --> 01:55:52,640
him with certain other fives or bigs right. Now but

2513
01:55:52,720 --> 01:55:54,920
because of the spacing, ELEMENTS i get that he's a good.

2514
01:55:54,920 --> 01:55:58,159
Passer he's not a versatile. Passer he's a good. Screener

2515
01:55:58,279 --> 01:56:00,439
there's gonna be. Limit the free throw shooting is still

2516
01:56:00,439 --> 01:56:01,760
the free has been a little bit better this, year

2517
01:56:01,760 --> 01:56:04,319
but it's the free throw. Shooting he is probably like

2518
01:56:04,439 --> 01:56:06,920
underrated when it comes to like finishing out of the

2519
01:56:06,920 --> 01:56:08,840
pick and roll because he doesn't need to necessarily be

2520
01:56:09,039 --> 01:56:11,439
just at the. Basket but for WHAT i think that

2521
01:56:11,520 --> 01:56:14,520
this team's vision is moving, FORWARD i think they need

2522
01:56:14,560 --> 01:56:17,279
a different type of center Than Yako, pernel and so

2523
01:56:17,319 --> 01:56:18,079
that's Why i'm gonna go WITH.

2524
01:56:18,159 --> 01:56:18,840
Speaker 1: Rj barrett.

2525
01:56:18,840 --> 01:56:22,479
Speaker 3: Here, YEAH i think, Yeah, bart the The barrett just

2526
01:56:22,520 --> 01:56:25,399
has more. UTILITY i think in the best version of the.

2527
01:56:25,479 --> 01:56:28,319
Raptors it's, LIKE i don't, know maybe he's the primary

2528
01:56:28,319 --> 01:56:30,840
playmaker on second, Units like maybe that's what he that's

2529
01:56:30,880 --> 01:56:33,079
the role he falls, into and maybe he's just like

2530
01:56:33,159 --> 01:56:37,199
your fourth playmaker among the. Starters purdle is Just, yeah

2531
01:56:37,399 --> 01:56:40,600
the limitations are what they, are and especially if it's

2532
01:56:40,680 --> 01:56:43,000
like you, know If ingram becomes like a super high

2533
01:56:43,039 --> 01:56:45,199
volume three point, shooter it mitigates it a little. Bit but,

2534
01:56:45,239 --> 01:56:48,479
Like i'm never gonna believe In barnes's three point, SHOT i,

2535
01:56:48,520 --> 01:56:51,600
think you, know so then if he's gonna be out

2536
01:56:51,600 --> 01:56:53,600
there as your other front cork, guy Then i'd Like

2537
01:56:53,680 --> 01:56:55,960
peardle to shoot like that's it's not that. Complicated it's

2538
01:56:55,960 --> 01:56:59,439
got if you view, WELL i was gonna, say if

2539
01:56:59,479 --> 01:57:01,800
you view Like barnes as like A Draymond green type

2540
01:57:01,800 --> 01:57:03,439
of shooter where it's, like all, right you can take a,

2541
01:57:03,479 --> 01:57:07,039
couple but nobody's guarding. You but but, YEAH i don't

2542
01:57:07,039 --> 01:57:09,640
know that that's a weird. Comparison, YEAH i think it's

2543
01:57:09,680 --> 01:57:10,520
just very almost by.

2544
01:57:10,560 --> 01:57:14,720
Speaker 2: Default oh, man this means Because i'm Getting, utah you're Getting.

2545
01:57:14,800 --> 01:57:16,600
Utah that MEANS i don't have to Get, washington which

2546
01:57:16,640 --> 01:57:19,840
is just that is a hell fire one But Grant Utah,

2547
01:57:19,960 --> 01:57:21,279
Keyante george Or Walker.

2548
01:57:21,359 --> 01:57:22,920
Speaker 1: Kessler SO.

2549
01:57:24,520 --> 01:57:29,119
Speaker 3: I think It's kessler BECAUSE I i feel like we've

2550
01:57:29,119 --> 01:57:32,520
got enough, evidence you, know over a handful of years

2551
01:57:32,600 --> 01:57:37,560
now that he can be like a legit defensive, anchor

2552
01:57:37,800 --> 01:57:41,039
has had, stretches has had years where he's been like full,

2553
01:57:41,039 --> 01:57:44,039
stop one of the best room protectors in the. League

2554
01:57:44,479 --> 01:57:47,600
you gotta. Measure but, LIKE i don't Think kessler's ever

2555
01:57:47,640 --> 01:57:50,680
gonna be like he's the wings are not, Spreading like

2556
01:57:50,920 --> 01:57:53,920
this is What kessler's gonna. Be. H you'll you, know

2557
01:57:54,119 --> 01:57:57,840
he's kind of a dunk only on, offense offensive. Rebounder that's.

2558
01:57:57,880 --> 01:58:02,319
It george's potent is like pretty. LEGIT i just LIKE

2559
01:58:03,000 --> 01:58:05,800
i just don't know what to do with. HIM i don't.

2560
01:58:05,840 --> 01:58:08,800
Know and, look we've talked about. This i'll just jump

2561
01:58:08,800 --> 01:58:10,039
on it and you can run with. It like the

2562
01:58:10,079 --> 01:58:13,359
presence Of Isaiah collier means is and his role on

2563
01:58:13,399 --> 01:58:16,079
the team at the moment suggests like Maybe utah is

2564
01:58:16,119 --> 01:58:18,920
not sure Where george fits into that whole. Thing SO

2565
01:58:19,479 --> 01:58:21,800
i THINK i Go, kessler even though it does feel

2566
01:58:21,800 --> 01:58:24,239
inconsistent because in the Past i've picked the guy that, Like,

2567
01:58:24,279 --> 01:58:27,800
okay there's this tenth percentile outcome where or ninetieth percentile

2568
01:58:27,840 --> 01:58:29,920
outcome Where george is An All star or. SOMETHING i

2569
01:58:30,439 --> 01:58:33,600
just am less convinced that that's real for, him.

2570
01:58:33,920 --> 01:58:37,039
Speaker 2: Because he's looked so much better when it comes to drawing,

2571
01:58:37,079 --> 01:58:40,800
fouls specifically coming off the, bench even as a. Passer

2572
01:58:40,840 --> 01:58:43,520
With Keante, GEORGE i think the answer has to Be Walker,

2573
01:58:43,600 --> 01:58:46,880
kesler which disappoints me BECAUSE i was pretty High george

2574
01:58:46,880 --> 01:58:48,479
AND i still think he could be a GOOD nba,

2575
01:58:48,520 --> 01:58:51,520
Player BUT i think it WAS i want to, say

2576
01:58:51,800 --> 01:58:53,439
was It Nate duncan might have, said like he just

2577
01:58:53,439 --> 01:58:55,119
feels like he's going to settle into being a third,

2578
01:58:55,159 --> 01:58:58,600
guard and if that's like what we believe that he's

2579
01:58:58,640 --> 01:59:01,119
going to, BE i think for this to change is

2580
01:59:01,119 --> 01:59:04,079
Because Walker, kesler to use your, word the thematic word

2581
01:59:04,119 --> 01:59:06,840
of the, podcast has the superpower that's just like a rim,

2582
01:59:06,880 --> 01:59:08,279
protector and you'd like him to be a little bit

2583
01:59:08,319 --> 01:59:11,319
more dynamic on, offense but that's what that archetype, like

2584
01:59:11,319 --> 01:59:12,760
that's what you typically are going to get out of.

2585
01:59:12,800 --> 01:59:15,439
It you know that he can be a starting caliber.

2586
01:59:15,479 --> 01:59:19,039
Center Can Keyante george be a starting caliber? GUARD i

2587
01:59:19,039 --> 01:59:21,039
think he's going to have to score a lot more

2588
01:59:21,039 --> 01:59:24,479
efficiently than we've, seen AND i don't know IF i

2589
01:59:24,479 --> 01:59:27,159
want to separate it from the environment In utah and

2590
01:59:27,159 --> 01:59:29,840
like the circumstances under which he's having to, operate and

2591
01:59:29,960 --> 01:59:31,119
then also saying.

2592
01:59:30,920 --> 01:59:32,720
Speaker 1: Well like if you get better players around, him will

2593
01:59:32,720 --> 01:59:32,880
be more.

2594
01:59:32,880 --> 01:59:36,079
Speaker 2: Efficient i'm then conceding that his ceiling is lower THAN

2595
01:59:36,079 --> 01:59:38,079
i thought that it was. Before SO i am going

2596
01:59:38,119 --> 01:59:40,319
to go With Walker kesler, Here AND i THINK i

2597
01:59:40,520 --> 01:59:42,760
probably might say That Isaiah collier is more which is

2598
01:59:42,760 --> 01:59:44,119
why we didn't include. Him IS i thought he was

2599
01:59:44,199 --> 01:59:46,920
kind of the easy answer Versus, Kante george and. Me,

2600
01:59:47,000 --> 01:59:50,520
know maybe the, timelines like the contract situation and Where

2601
01:59:50,600 --> 01:59:53,000
utah is, headed that factors into it as. Well But

2602
01:59:53,119 --> 01:59:56,079
collier's the best passer on this, Team like even if

2603
01:59:56,079 --> 01:59:57,920
some of the stuff could be, WILD i think so

2604
01:59:58,039 --> 02:00:00,199
the fact that he we can already say that about,

2605
02:00:00,279 --> 02:00:03,560
HIM i Think george really needs, to like his scoring

2606
02:00:03,560 --> 02:00:06,560
efficiency needs to balloon for him to have a case,

2607
02:00:06,600 --> 02:00:08,560
Over like if you were trying to rank their young

2608
02:00:08,600 --> 02:00:11,720
players in terms of future, VALUE i don't know where

2609
02:00:11,720 --> 02:00:14,119
he falls Any, like if if we would you Put

2610
02:00:14,119 --> 02:00:15,159
collier in front of him at this.

2611
02:00:15,199 --> 02:00:20,079
Speaker 3: Point, SEE i don't THINK i, would only BECAUSE i

2612
02:00:20,119 --> 02:00:23,880
think the shooting with him is even, scarier yeah than

2613
02:00:23,920 --> 02:00:26,479
it is With. George BUT i think it's fair to

2614
02:00:26,479 --> 02:00:30,119
say That, collier like if you're focusing on like strengths

2615
02:00:30,199 --> 02:00:32,920
as the main like if you just care about, like

2616
02:00:33,000 --> 02:00:35,359
let's rank these guys by, Like, okay what's the thing

2617
02:00:35,439 --> 02:00:37,800
they do? Best and how much does it? Matter Like

2618
02:00:38,000 --> 02:00:41,720
collier might just as like a driver and passer have

2619
02:00:41,840 --> 02:00:45,359
a better like set of strengths Than george. Does because

2620
02:00:45,359 --> 02:00:47,680
what would you say we've talked about this last part,

2621
02:00:47,800 --> 02:00:50,800
Right like What's george's will stop using? Superpower like what's

2622
02:00:50,800 --> 02:00:53,760
his carrying? Skill, like what's the thing That, okay he's

2623
02:00:53,880 --> 02:00:54,720
always going to do.

2624
02:00:54,720 --> 02:00:58,159
Speaker 2: This his odd ball, cadence which is just so like

2625
02:00:58,199 --> 02:00:59,680
a cop out, Type, yeah.

2626
02:00:59,520 --> 02:01:02,000
Speaker 3: Yeah what's? That what's that good? FOR i don't, Know, like,

2627
02:01:02,359 --> 02:01:04,359
well so far it's been good for sub forty percent

2628
02:01:04,399 --> 02:01:06,199
shooting from the field for his, career.

2629
02:01:06,000 --> 02:01:08,560
Speaker 1: Like, ay fifty six point seven true shooting off the.

2630
02:01:08,600 --> 02:01:09,640
Bench that's like.

2631
02:01:11,079 --> 02:01:13,000
Speaker 3: Then if that's that's where he's supposed to, be then

2632
02:01:13,039 --> 02:01:13,520
it's even.

2633
02:01:13,560 --> 02:01:15,800
Speaker 1: EASIER i don't want to do this. One let's skip.

2634
02:01:15,840 --> 02:01:18,279
Speaker 2: It The wizards one not BECAUSE i DON'T i don't

2635
02:01:18,319 --> 02:01:19,640
want to talk about The. WIZARDS i don't want to

2636
02:01:19,680 --> 02:01:20,199
talk about this.

2637
02:01:20,239 --> 02:01:23,439
Speaker 3: Specifically i've talk myself into having a strong feeling, Here

2638
02:01:23,560 --> 02:01:26,479
but you have to decide first For Washington Blall Cool

2639
02:01:26,479 --> 02:01:27,399
bali Or Alex.

2640
02:01:27,439 --> 02:01:34,439
Speaker 1: SAR i think It's Alex. Sar i'm just.

2641
02:01:36,000 --> 02:01:37,880
Speaker 2: The stretch that he can provide is a. Big the

2642
02:01:37,880 --> 02:01:39,279
playmaking he provides is a.

2643
02:01:39,279 --> 02:01:40,159
Speaker 1: Big and then.

2644
02:01:40,079 --> 02:01:42,800
Speaker 2: If he can be like who's more likely to as

2645
02:01:42,800 --> 02:01:45,239
good as block Cool bally is right now, defensively like

2646
02:01:45,720 --> 02:01:47,800
who is more likely to be the backbone of a?

2647
02:01:47,840 --> 02:01:50,119
Speaker 1: Defense it needs to Be alex ar by.

2648
02:01:50,159 --> 02:01:52,439
Speaker 2: Default and so the two things THAT i like about

2649
02:01:52,479 --> 02:01:55,640
him so far offensively now to touch the, hands those

2650
02:01:55,680 --> 02:01:58,039
are all concerns how you feel about his floor, Game

2651
02:01:58,600 --> 02:02:01,199
but just the playmaking and the stretch that we see them,

2652
02:02:01,199 --> 02:02:04,239
provide those are An those are still if you want

2653
02:02:04,239 --> 02:02:05,119
to say, anomalists they.

2654
02:02:05,039 --> 02:02:07,560
Speaker 1: Are clear value adds at the big man.

2655
02:02:07,560 --> 02:02:11,920
Speaker 2: Position i'm going it is so close, though like, honestly

2656
02:02:12,720 --> 02:02:15,680
the next good version of The, wizards it might just

2657
02:02:15,760 --> 02:02:16,760
be built around these two.

2658
02:02:16,800 --> 02:02:19,199
Speaker 1: Players that is an outcome that is absolutely in. PLAY

2659
02:02:19,800 --> 02:02:22,359
i Just i'm favoring Alex aar a little bit. More

2660
02:02:22,560 --> 02:02:24,319
F that really pains me BECAUSE i Love.

2661
02:02:24,359 --> 02:02:27,119
Speaker 3: Blah so the only THING i like better than a

2662
02:02:27,159 --> 02:02:30,319
big guy who can really defend and stretch the floor

2663
02:02:30,640 --> 02:02:34,039
is a big wing that might be your primary playmaker

2664
02:02:34,159 --> 02:02:36,840
and a really good shooter and a great. Defender So

2665
02:02:36,920 --> 02:02:40,760
i'm going Cool, bali it's super. TOUGH i, think like

2666
02:02:42,119 --> 02:02:45,159
because we saw him shoot it better last year as a,

2667
02:02:45,239 --> 02:02:48,800
rookie and because the playmaking has improved this, year and

2668
02:02:48,920 --> 02:02:52,720
BECAUSE i, believe like from a from a body comp

2669
02:02:52,760 --> 02:02:56,640
and like physical skills, standpoint there's no reason he can't

2670
02:02:56,680 --> 02:03:00,319
be elite defensively as a. WING i THINK i think

2671
02:03:00,640 --> 02:03:02,680
like you got to pick from both of his seasons

2672
02:03:02,720 --> 02:03:05,840
to get. There BUT i Think kolibali, STILL i still

2673
02:03:05,880 --> 02:03:08,279
believe we. Did we Did, stockerport AND i think WE'RE

2674
02:03:08,399 --> 02:03:10,600
i was stocked down or. Neutral it certainly. WASN'T i

2675
02:03:10,640 --> 02:03:11,560
can't remember we both.

2676
02:03:11,560 --> 02:03:14,279
Speaker 2: Went we both went stock. NEUTRAL i think Some wizards

2677
02:03:14,319 --> 02:03:15,000
fans weren't too.

2678
02:03:15,000 --> 02:03:17,319
Speaker 3: Thrilled it was a, discussion So i'm Gonna i'm not

2679
02:03:17,319 --> 02:03:20,319
gonna amend that because we said what we. Said BUT

2680
02:03:20,399 --> 02:03:22,560
i still think there's a shot For Koli bally to

2681
02:03:22,640 --> 02:03:27,000
be like to be really my favorite and maybe the

2682
02:03:27,079 --> 02:03:29,439
league's most important type of, player like the big two

2683
02:03:29,479 --> 02:03:32,920
way wing that can do everything like that's still maybe in.

2684
02:03:32,960 --> 02:03:33,760
There So i'm going with.

2685
02:03:33,840 --> 02:03:36,600
Speaker 2: HIM i assume he's just gonna. Blaw he is gonna

2686
02:03:36,600 --> 02:03:38,800
be a more efficient scorer moving. FORWARD i think for

2687
02:03:38,840 --> 02:03:41,319
me to pick him, oversaw the playmaking would need to

2688
02:03:41,319 --> 02:03:44,399
pop because if he's not like even more and then

2689
02:03:44,439 --> 02:03:46,239
even if he, LIKE i guess it has to happen

2690
02:03:46,279 --> 02:03:49,079
in tandem because if he's not a super efficient on ball,

2691
02:03:49,119 --> 02:03:51,720
scorer you're gonna take the ball out of his hands

2692
02:03:51,760 --> 02:03:54,039
then presumably. More and so it's then if you're talking

2693
02:03:54,039 --> 02:03:56,960
about more of just a super charged three AND d,

2694
02:03:57,119 --> 02:04:00,560
wing is where it get like? Where but maybe could

2695
02:04:00,560 --> 02:04:02,079
this be a Situation i'm trying to think, of what's

2696
02:04:02,119 --> 02:04:06,439
a team that's built around like, equals just like Like

2697
02:04:06,560 --> 02:04:08,880
Lebron luca in like that's like the.

2698
02:04:08,960 --> 02:04:11,640
Speaker 3: Extreme but, yeah but they're like different player types. Too

2699
02:04:11,680 --> 02:04:14,079
IT'S i, mean it's there's too many guys, there but

2700
02:04:14,119 --> 02:04:16,399
it's almost like A cleveland thing where you got your

2701
02:04:16,439 --> 02:04:18,680
mobile and then you got Your mitchell or your mobile

2702
02:04:18,760 --> 02:04:21,159
and Your garland where it's like they're not taking anything

2703
02:04:21,159 --> 02:04:23,279
away from each, other but it's, LIKE i don't, know

2704
02:04:23,359 --> 02:04:24,880
it's who who really in the moment is.

2705
02:04:24,920 --> 02:04:27,399
Speaker 2: Better do you know what's impacting me a little bit too?

2706
02:04:27,479 --> 02:04:29,279
Here BECAUSE i mentioned this in the stock report and

2707
02:04:29,279 --> 02:04:30,680
that might be the wrong way to look at, This

2708
02:04:30,800 --> 02:04:33,960
but when The wizards are operating on such a longer term,

2709
02:04:34,000 --> 02:04:37,760
WINDOW i just assume that they're going to eventually draft

2710
02:04:37,880 --> 02:04:40,479
or acquire someone who is going to have the ball

2711
02:04:40,479 --> 02:04:43,199
in his hands way. More and that's getting into what

2712
02:04:43,279 --> 02:04:46,640
Blaa coolabali maybe even Bub carrington is. Doing and so

2713
02:04:46,720 --> 02:04:49,000
unless you just kind of view this setup as just

2714
02:04:49,000 --> 02:04:51,560
like if it feels like for one of the skills

2715
02:04:51,560 --> 02:04:54,000
that you might appreciate What bola can do or hoping

2716
02:04:54,079 --> 02:04:56,479
that continues to. Advance if in my HEAD i think

2717
02:04:56,479 --> 02:04:58,960
that they're actually looking for someone who would come in

2718
02:04:59,000 --> 02:05:02,359
and marginalize that part of his, game maybe that's what's

2719
02:05:02,399 --> 02:05:03,520
taking away from it here for.

2720
02:05:03,600 --> 02:05:05,720
Speaker 3: Me, yeah whereas like who's gonna come in and, like,

2721
02:05:05,800 --> 02:05:08,000
oh Now sar doesn't get to do. This it's, like,

2722
02:05:08,079 --> 02:05:10,239
no he's gonna what he's shown so far is he's

2723
02:05:10,279 --> 02:05:12,840
gonna get all the rope he needs like to develop

2724
02:05:13,159 --> 02:05:15,079
as a, shooter spacer defender.

2725
02:05:14,880 --> 02:05:16,479
Speaker 2: As of right, now and because there's only one of

2726
02:05:16,479 --> 02:05:19,279
these positions available on the, Court like you're not gonna

2727
02:05:19,319 --> 02:05:22,159
draft another big like you never you say never draft

2728
02:05:22,159 --> 02:05:24,479
for fit Like. Sar when you look at What sar

2729
02:05:24,600 --> 02:05:27,119
is done and like where he, plays it's, yeah we'll

2730
02:05:27,199 --> 02:05:29,800
draft another like Size Kola bali. Player you're not going

2731
02:05:29,880 --> 02:05:32,359
to do that with because you could Play Kola. Balis

2732
02:05:32,640 --> 02:05:34,439
you can't PLAY i, MEAN i guess you could play

2733
02:05:34,479 --> 02:05:35,399
Two sars at.

2734
02:05:35,399 --> 02:05:38,039
Speaker 3: Once it depends on if one if one of them

2735
02:05:38,159 --> 02:05:40,159
becomes like, oh you can put the ball in his

2736
02:05:40,159 --> 02:05:42,079
hands on the perimeter and he'll like make a play

2737
02:05:42,119 --> 02:05:44,760
consistently THAT i, mean which doesn't feel like it's in the.

2738
02:05:44,800 --> 02:05:45,880
Cards but MAYBE i don't.

2739
02:05:45,920 --> 02:05:53,000
Speaker 1: Know tusar sounds like a computer virus. Too that was.

2740
02:05:53,039 --> 02:05:54,319
FUN i sufficiently hate.

2741
02:05:54,319 --> 02:05:56,800
Speaker 3: Myself, YEAH i feel a lot of self. Loathing so

2742
02:05:56,880 --> 02:05:57,520
good job by.

2743
02:05:57,560 --> 02:05:59,840
Speaker 1: Us you have anything else to add or do you

2744
02:06:00,119 --> 02:06:00,640
to take us out of?

2745
02:06:00,680 --> 02:06:02,479
Speaker 3: HERE i think that's going to cover. It thanks. Everybody

2746
02:06:02,560 --> 02:06:05,319
let us, KNOW i mean we you, KNOW i would

2747
02:06:05,399 --> 02:06:07,680
normally say give us suggestions or who do we? Forget

2748
02:06:07,720 --> 02:06:09,680
but like we deliberately picked guys that we hope we

2749
02:06:09,720 --> 02:06:12,319
would have tough discussions on and omitted ones that would

2750
02:06:12,359 --> 02:06:12,560
make it.

2751
02:06:12,560 --> 02:06:14,600
Speaker 2: Easy, yeah give us your, disagreements or if you want

2752
02:06:14,600 --> 02:06:16,159
to be, nice you give us your. Agreements, yeah but

2753
02:06:16,399 --> 02:06:18,760
you guys are thirty of thirty agreements.

2754
02:06:18,760 --> 02:06:21,640
Speaker 3: Only, yeah or it was our hit. Rate, please as

2755
02:06:21,720 --> 02:06:23,960
we say every Time Rate, review. Subscribe if you're checking

2756
02:06:24,000 --> 02:06:25,840
this out on, YouTube make sure you're subscribed to leave

2757
02:06:25,880 --> 02:06:27,720
us a comment there let us know it's doing our

2758
02:06:27,720 --> 02:06:29,800
discord as well links for that in YouTube and fivecast.

2759
02:06:29,840 --> 02:06:33,680
Subscription we'll be back with you next. Week Shouts frank

2760
02:06:33,680 --> 02:06:35,720
No kein, Apologies Jared allen who love