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Speaker 1: Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is

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not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: Listen, I don't know what to do if I tell

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you this, Well, I don't want We got a friends.

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Speaker 3: Hello and welcome. This is season eleven, episode two hundred

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and seventy six of Sword and Scale, the show that.

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Speaker 4: Reveals that the worst monsters are real.

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Speaker 3: You ever take a road trip for a couple of

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days or maybe even weeks?

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Speaker 5: I have.

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Speaker 3: Those days were fun. Gotta admit. Trading in the brand

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new sports car for an SUV so I could pack

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my dog Alie with all of my worldly possessions and

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head north from South Florida one of the best things

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I've ever done in my life, to be quite honest,

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one of the most rewarding, enjoyable times of my life.

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And things happen on trips like that. You run into delays,

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like aphic jams, detours, bad weather. I got stuck in

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a hurricane and had some shenanigans happen in a men's

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bathroom in northern Florida. And no, it's not what you're thinking.

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But the point is that all kinds of things happen

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sometimes you lose your wallet or your keys, or you

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lock yourself out of your car, and pretty soon the

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trip you're on isn't even close to the one you've

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imagined in your head in your cabeza. Sure, you've met

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some cool people and even eaten at the dingy diner

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at the corner of nowhere. Food was fucking great, But

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you missed out on a few really important things too,

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because life just threw a few curveballs your way. And

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everybody knows, everybody that's been on this earth for more

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than three seconds knows that shit happens, but it usually

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ends up okay in the end. Usually in a quaint

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South Carolinian town. In the early sixties, the love story

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of a married couple named Carol and Reggie unfolded like

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a fairy tale. Their tale began during high school when

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they were just fifteen and started dating the classmates. Soon

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became the ideal couple, inseparable and deeply in love. Nothing

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like that high school love. It's life or death for

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some Graduation in nineteen sixty two was supposed to mark

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the beginning of their married life, but Reggie's called to

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military service disrupted their plans. Somewhere In the midst of this,

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they took different roads and went their separate ways. Carol,

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resilient and determined, found security in a job in the

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nearby Air Force base and briefly explored another marriage before

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eventually marrying a man named Richard. Unfortunately, richard struggles with

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alcoholism cast a dark shadow over their relationship. A domineering

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and abusive figure, he harbored an intense desire to keep

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Carol within his grasp. Any hint of independence from her

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would trigger merciless beatings. Regrettably, their young daughter saw a

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lot of the explosive scenes her father's anger and chaos

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seemed to dominate their family home. Carol mustered every viber

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of strength she had and filed for divorce in nineteen

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eighty seven. The late nineties brought another cruel twist of

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Carol's life with a diagnosis of liver cancer. Her courageous

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battle left her a survivor, but one with a lifetime

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of daily medication and regular checkups what a consistent horror cancerous.

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To accommodate her medical needs, she took a job at

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a call center answering phones for the local cable company,

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where she could continue to work in a way that

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wasn't physically demanding. Reggie also had his share of life's challenges,

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including a marriage that eventually ended and a number of

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health problems of his own. Years passed for both Carol

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and Reggie until a fateful day in two thousand. Carol,

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working at the call center, received a call from a

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familiar voice. Her body trembled at the sound because it

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was Reggie. He had no idea he was speaking to Carol,

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but she recognized the voice belonging to the love of

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her life. This mere phone call triggered a reconnection with

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her high school sweetheart after thirty eight years of separation.

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Can you even imagine? Their reunion was sweet and profound,

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leading to daily meetings, moving in together within weeks, and

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exchanging vows in just a couple of months. I mean,

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it's not like they didn't have years to think about

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what they were missing. Rnda, Carol's daughter, vividly remembered her

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mother's happiness that day and how the couple's love story

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came back to life. Despite their challenging medical histories, they

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found solid in each other, creating a life filled with

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happiness and love and comfort. They settled into Reggie's home

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in Charleston, partly to be near an ill friend who

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also needed their help. Carol's daughter felt like she truly

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had a father and a loving family. Carol and Reggie's

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love story, marked by tragedy and triumph, continued as they

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took each day as it came, with gratitude for the

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love they had finally found in each other. This is

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Reggie's brother talking about both him and his sister in law, Carol.

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Speaker 1: I would like to tell you about my brother and

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his wife, Carol. Reggie and Carol were the most innocent,

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kind hearted, and wonderful members of my family. They were

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good neighbors. They were kind, and they were trustworthy. Hell

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those that were in need and they had to give

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the hospitality, Reggie would give you the shirt office back

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if you knew you needed it. They were givers. They

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were contributors to society. We were raised in a large family.

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Reggie was a life of the family. He was a

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party of the family reunions. He was always funny, telling

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jokes and keeping people happy was his trademark. He would

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always insist on paying bills at a restaurant, and he

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had a habit of showing up at your door, unannounced

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with goodies and cheers. He was a wonderful brother. Reggie

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had a rough grown up in the house of eleven

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brothers and sisters. He was the seventh child of the

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Sumner family. He was the baby. Our father was killed

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in a motorcycle accidents when Reggie was just six weeks

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sold at thirty two. There was a little with seven children.

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She remarried and had four more children. Mister Clark, our stepdad,

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passed away in nineteen fifty three, and as the older

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and brothers and sisters were moving out, getting married or

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joining the military, Reggie stepped up to the plate and

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became the fatherlike figure and helped raise the younger siblings.

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He was such a good leader. He always sat a

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wonderful example for everyone. He was so loved by his siblings.

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Reggie was retired from sea such railroad and although he

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and Caow were in port health, they loved each other.

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They loved staying together.

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Speaker 3: In love and relationships, many people, myself included, run through

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several partners trying to find the right one. It's not easy.

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I think that's pretty obvious. You make a lot of

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mistakes along the way. Often circumstances, timing, or personal growth

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lead people to just settle. Life has a habit of

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moving on and sometimes even getting in the way, so

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sometimes it's just easier to find comfort, stability, and companionship

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and marriages that didn't start up or end up like

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Reggie or Carol's. Unlike fairy tales, it's a rare couple

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who meet and marry in high school without divorcing just

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a few years later, But rare and extraordinary love stories

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like theirs do exist. I happen to know firsthand, and yes,

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I know how lucky I am. Two people who have

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been through it marriage and divorce and then rediscovered each

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other after decades. They become even more extraordinary when they

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stayed again until their golden years of retirement. Finally they

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get to spend quality time with their loved ones, free

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from all the immaturity and the bullshit that goes with

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any relationship. At any point, when you've worked on yourself

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through trial and error for decades and you finally meet

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someone else that has done the same thing, it's kind

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of magical. This is how Carol and Reggie felt about

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each other, like their love was the rarest in the world.

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And they were the luckiest people on earth.

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Speaker 6: Reggie and Carroll dated in a high school, and many

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years later they connected and got married. They lived in Charleston,

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and by this time we lived in Jacksonville. Carol was

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easy going person and.

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Speaker 7: A good cook.

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Speaker 6: She kept Reggie well fed and enjoyed the good food

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and the good cook.

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Speaker 1: She was.

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Speaker 6: The first time I visited them when they lived in

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lands Since South Carolina. I spent a couple of nights

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with them on that trip there again, Reggie came the

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neighborhood big brother, dad and friend. Reggie and Carol were

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only married a few years.

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Speaker 3: A few years with Reggie already seemed like a blissful

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lifetime compared to what Carol had to put up with

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in her longest second marriage to Richard. Being married to

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this tyrant made meeting Reggie all the sweeter. One afternoon

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back in the past, when Carol was at home with

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just her daughter Rohnda, Richard, who was now her ex,

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had decided to carry out a bit of a nefarious plan.

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You see, Richard was depressed and he didn't want to

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live anymore. So, you know, if he wasn't going to

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be on this earth anymore, then neither would his wife, Carol,

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So that afternoon, he entered the home, started an argument,

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and shot Carol multiple times in front of their ten

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year old daughter. Gunshots shattered the tranquility of their home

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and the vicinity. Neighbors knew something bad was happening, so

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they called police immediately. Emergency responders rushed Carol to the hospital,

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where her life hung in the balance. Miraculously, she emerged

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from this whole ordeal, but her right eye bore the

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scars of the tragic incident for the next year. Ten

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year old Ronda was compelled to act as her mother's nurse,

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pulling her back from the brink of death. After the

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trauma of her abusive marriage and nearly losing her life,

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Carol had strong doubts about getting involved with anyone ever again.

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That is until she reunited with Reggie, who brought a

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ray of light into her life. It was like finding

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a favorite blanket tucked away in the closet, one that

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you thought you had accidentally thrown away. They already knew

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and trusted each other. They already knew who they were,

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they had known for decades. Yet as the years unfolded,

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an unforeseen tragedy loomed. Little did they know that their

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love story would face yet another poignant chapter, a chapter

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that would include burying their love forever. In rural South Carolina.

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During the nineteen sixties, Carol and Reggie's teenage love was

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abruptly interrupted when Reggie answered the call of military service,

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leading them on separate paths. Carol faced some pretty tough years,

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previously living through an abusive marriage to Richard, who mercilessly

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shot her numerous times in front of their ten year

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old daughter before ending his own life. Such a horrible

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thing to experience. Such a selfish prick you have to

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be to do that to someone you claim to love.

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Carol's next challenge would be battling liver cancer in the

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late nineteen nineties. As life's winding path unfolded, Reggie two

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faced challenges, including the end of a marriage. Remarkably, fate

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intervened in two thousand, reuniting Carol and Reggie after thirty

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eight years. They picked up right where they left off

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and were the happiest they'd ever been, But fate was

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about to force the loving couple into a dark detour.

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The couple were now living in Jacksonville, Florida, where they

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relocated to be near some of Reggie's family, while Carol's

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daughter remained in South Carolina.

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Speaker 8: Yes, I am in Charleston, South Carolina, and I need

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someone to go to my mother's home to CFC is

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alive issue there. I can't reach her. See have I

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He'll follow?

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Speaker 9: Yeah.

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Speaker 8: She get liver cancer and her husband is a severe

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diabetic two zero one five Reed Avenue. And the last

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time we saw it with her Tuesday morning.

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Speaker 7: What's her name?

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Speaker 8: Her name is Carol Sumner.

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Speaker 9: You know why.

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Speaker 8: I'm a female. Yes, And her husband is Reggie and

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he's dead. Written and so he walked into the door.

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Speaker 3: Ronda had just embarked on a lengthy mission to locate

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her mom and stepdad, a long journey that was just beginning.

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Speaker 9: And I like you.

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Speaker 8: I've liked probably twelve messages today alone, and they are

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both the sort of part of hearing. So I need

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somebody to really really beat on the door. I just

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feel something's wrong.

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Speaker 3: At that point, she was told she couldn't file a

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missing person's report over the phone, and that she would

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need to call the Jacksonville Police to make arrangements.

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Speaker 8: May help you, Well, I need to file I seeing

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persons report and I'm out of the town. Can I

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do it over the phone? I'm sorry missing my mother

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and her husband.

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Speaker 2: And while you said they're missing them, let's play on.

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Speaker 8: Nobody has hurt or seen from seen him or heard

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from them since Friday. Uh huh. They are in very

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poor help. And Officer Nelson spent several hours last night

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over at their home and he said that it was

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just you know, it looks like they had they just

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up and left, but they left the dog there and

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the dog is inside and something something, something's wrong because

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they called me over a week and nobody. The last

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time they were seeing or heard from was Friday, and

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Officer Nelson told me I needed to file I'm missing

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person's report, but I'm in Charleston, South Carolina. Okay, is

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there anybody here's a finer reports for them here in Jacksonville. No,

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the family have a key to their residents. Yes I do,

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I mean here is Jacksonville. You know the door was unlocked.

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Officer Nelson was in there her house.

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Speaker 9: The door was unlocked.

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Speaker 8: He was inside their house. Yeah, okay, one was the

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report felt last night. I called Directonville Police Department in

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last night to have an officer go to the and

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why wasn't her report out last night?

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Speaker 3: Exactly? That's what Rohnda wanted to know. Why wasn't a

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report filed? They were both disabled, hadn't responded to calls

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for days, and left the dog alone. Again, she was

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passed on to another dispatcher when she asked for Officer Nelson,

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the officer who actually entered the home and saw that

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her parents were gone.

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Speaker 8: Hello mea yes, yes, this is miss for instance. Yes, okay,

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did you talk to the officer yesterday? Yes, m I

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talked to him numerous times last night. He was He

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went to the house and he said the door was

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unlocked and the dog was still insign He got a

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little dog and he said, there are several hours trying

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to He found her address book and he called the

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sister in law, but by bound if anybody has heard

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of someone, and the last time anybody has seen or

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her from them was Friday, and they are in very

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she's being treated for liver cancer and he's a diabetic.

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So he went into the house. He was Yes, he

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was in the house because I'm charge. He made a report,

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but I don't know if it's a mission personal report.

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Speaker 9: Let me show you.

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Speaker 8: He said he did not file on Miss Carson report.

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And that's what I'm calling to do. Now, Okay, and

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where are you ave? I'm in Charleston, South Carolina, trying

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to get down there.

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Speaker 10: Are you driving?

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Speaker 7: Now?

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Speaker 8: What do you mean by trying?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 8: I'm trying to make a racist to get there. I've

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got two small childress. I'm trying to make a racists

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to get down there. I said, I don't want to

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if I get in at midnight, I don't want to,

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you know, I'd like to set the filed as soon

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as possible. She's something's wrong.

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Speaker 3: My god. Don't ever lose your disabled parents in another state.

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I guess.

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Speaker 8: He also was able to retrieve the license tag number

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of their car, because their car was also missing. They

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have a South Carolina Drubbers bison and the South Carolina

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driver license tag if they just moved to Florida, And

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he was able to retrieve that information, and he told

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me I needed to report the car stolen.

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Speaker 9: It's okay, I'm.

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Speaker 10: Thinking, And they're not are they They're not on a hospice.

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Speaker 11: Or anything like that.

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Speaker 8: No, I talked every I talked probably nine hospitals in

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that area, and Andrea is it admitted or treated? And nobody,

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nobody had them in their in their system. Officer Nelson

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was able to retrieve information about if an ambulance had

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transported them, and that came up negative. Well, you know

300
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what I mean, the ambulance did not visit the house.

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Speaker 9: Right there's the does.

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Speaker 8: Not make a chance that they are just and my

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mother and I are very close. We talk every single day,

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every day, and I've not heard from her since Monday.

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I'm sorry, last Tuesday. Last Tuesday morning, after the fourth

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of July, he called me, and I've not talked to

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her since then. And I figured that maybe they were

308
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sleeping or something, and then I I'm on yesterday I

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called the police department to have an officer go over

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there to see, right, they were dead. I didn't know, right,

311
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but the house, the house was unlocked, the car was missing.

312
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And who said that the house right next door, either

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yesterday or the day before it had been burglarized. And

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with me being a state and half away, I'm very

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in there. So did you need contact with the neighbors?

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He said, he did, but I don't. The last time

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he said the neighbors saw a light on Friday. That's

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what I'm saying. The last time they were heard or

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seen was on Friday.

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Speaker 3: Foul play was becoming obvious. You don't need a little

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00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:10,480
badge for that. The neighbors just had their house broken into.

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Poor Ronda knew something was really wrong, but found herself

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answering twenty questions with each operator she reached, But the

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next question just seemed MM silly. She wanted to know

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if they had maybe just gotten in the car and

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gone on vacation.

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Speaker 8: No, absolutely not, not without calling me. He's a diabetic,

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his health is extremely poorced and he's got a broken leg.

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She has an IVY suture to her arms for her

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seamilar therapy. I mean, it's not like I'm just they're

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not bedridden, but it's not like they can just get

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up and go. They're just there. She's got liver. Answer,

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they're extremely ill.

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Speaker 9: What what's your last saying? Miss Branson?

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Speaker 8: My life name is Branson?

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Speaker 3: What's your last name? Miss Branson? Do that just a second?

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Did you get the joke yet? N Maybe you don't

338
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belong here?

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Speaker 8: Then would I also file a missing the car missing

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with that part?

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Speaker 12: With you?

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00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:14,599
Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 9: If you have the you have a tag number and all.

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Speaker 8: The officer Nelson retrieved it from South Carolina records or whatever.

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But I don't know it. I can win, they can

346
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be at it on later. But if somebody took them

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and they're you know, you've got them somewhere and they's

348
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got the car, I mean, we won't find the car

349
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before we find them. You can think, right, I see

350
00:24:35,759 --> 00:24:37,440
what you're saying, but I don't have any way to

351
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He didn't make a note in the record, and now

352
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I don't see it. Any idea when he'll we got

353
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on duty at seven o'clock tonight.

354
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Speaker 3: We've all been there right stuck in a chat message

355
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:56,839
loop or automated phone tree, or pushed through from one

356
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person to the next. You'all have comcast right, all for

357
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:06,839
a simple question. But this was about her missing parents,

358
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,599
not about her cable bill. Every passing second could be

359
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a crucial second. Ronda was desperately trying to make arrangements

360
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for her children so she could make the seven hour

361
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drive to Jacksonville, Florida. She asked for any officer to

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call her as soon as possible and what the address

363
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of the police department was, so she could go there herself,

364
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but then she was directed to go straight to the

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house of her parents. The next call you hear is

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the one Ronda made once she reached Jacksonville.

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Speaker 10: Yes, I need to have an officer out so ease,

368
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I need to saw a missing Parkingsy Court.

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Speaker 9: Let's the address man, twenty fifteen, three Avenue.

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Speaker 10: Car Computers, Johns, my mother, her husband.

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Speaker 9: What's your name, Fonda Franson? Did you already fall into report?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 10: I haven't.

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Speaker 9: I called into a report.

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Speaker 10: And I live in Chelton, South Carolina, and I just

376
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came into town, and I was told you to call

377
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,880
when I got here, And I'm here and a new

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00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:19,599
officer here so I can call the report.

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Speaker 3: Every time she spoke with a new nine to one

380
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,759
one operator, she was asked the same repetitive questions, leaving

381
00:26:26,759 --> 00:26:30,559
her caught in a whirlwind of frustration when all she

382
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,920
wanted to do was locate her parents as quickly as possible.

383
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 9: What was time to do?

384
00:26:36,559 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 10: Is we have your call in the system already. I

385
00:26:39,799 --> 00:26:42,880
seemed like somebody said, oh, had you set up have

386
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,359
an officer to come talk to you with trying to

387
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,119
figure out your parents?

388
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 9: And you were appointing both of them missing? Your mother

389
00:26:49,799 --> 00:26:50,720
and her husband?

390
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 13: Yeah?

391
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 9: Okay? How long have they been missing? Since Friday'll find me?

392
00:26:57,839 --> 00:27:01,599
Wait in the car? Yeah, as far as I don't know.

393
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,559
Speaker 10: I live in Charlston, South Carolina, and I okay they

394
00:27:04,599 --> 00:27:06,119
all have any other relatives here?

395
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:06,759
Speaker 14: No?

396
00:27:07,319 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 9: Okay?

397
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:07,799
Speaker 15: There?

398
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,519
Speaker 10: And you're in Jacksonville? Now on at their house? Oh,

399
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,400
you're at the house and now yes, okay? What's your

400
00:27:16,799 --> 00:27:18,440
okay to call? What's your mother's name?

401
00:27:19,319 --> 00:27:26,599
Speaker 9: Carol Thunder? Okay? How did she? She is sixty two?

402
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 10: Sixty Q?

403
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 9: Your wire? Black female? White?

404
00:27:30,519 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 8: White female?

405
00:27:32,079 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 9: What's the houseless lang? James Reginald Sumner?

406
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 10: How the nine eighteen forty three is his birthday?

407
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,559
Speaker 9: What kind of call of the lasting driven?

408
00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 10: Uh?

409
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,559
Speaker 9: Blue? Town? Are Lincoln Town?

410
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 8: Far blue?

411
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 9: Lincoln Town?

412
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 8: Car?

413
00:27:50,079 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 9: You know the tag number on that? Yeah, ma'am? Is

414
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,200
it also you're gonna come out? Yes, but you'll need

415
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,599
to put this air for matonus. So we bowlow? Can

416
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,880
we point listed is Branson? You may be upset, but

417
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:02,839
we are doing.

418
00:28:02,599 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 10: Our job and this is what we have to do

419
00:28:04,839 --> 00:28:07,839
because if they're missing, that loss and they're probably.

420
00:28:07,559 --> 00:28:09,559
Speaker 9: Lost, so we could have put a bolo out and

421
00:28:09,599 --> 00:28:11,680
if anybody see them somewhere else in the city.

422
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,559
Speaker 10: They can notify the offer for this on the way.

423
00:28:14,279 --> 00:28:17,279
So that's why I'm getting this. I don't know the

424
00:28:17,319 --> 00:28:19,839
tag members. Think you don't know the tag member.

425
00:28:19,839 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 8: Go ahead.

426
00:28:21,039 --> 00:28:23,559
Speaker 10: Officer Nelson was able to retreat the tag member from

427
00:28:23,599 --> 00:28:24,400
South Carolina.

428
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:25,799
Speaker 9: I didn't get it from him.

429
00:28:26,319 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 3: He is he got it interesting that one of the

430
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,319
reasons her parents had been missing for so long was

431
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:36,359
that no one in the system was communicating with each other.

432
00:28:37,319 --> 00:28:39,039
Every call she made to nine one one er the

433
00:28:39,079 --> 00:28:44,480
police was like starting all over again, entering a new

434
00:28:44,599 --> 00:28:47,839
ticket in your customer support system.

435
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:49,359
Speaker 9: Ah.

436
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,039
Speaker 3: The efficiency of government, and then this lady gets an

437
00:28:53,039 --> 00:28:56,839
attitude with her on top of everything. By this time,

438
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,079
Rondo was exhausted, wouldn't you be.

439
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:05,279
Speaker 9: That's when I want sarapox. Yeah, I called one hour ago.

440
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:07,960
A police officers. Just come out to the house.

441
00:29:08,039 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 10: I can folly missing person three ft address twenty fifteen

442
00:29:13,039 --> 00:29:16,519
read avenue.

443
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 9: Two zero one five read avenue. Yes, my mom, you

444
00:29:21,039 --> 00:29:21,720
know what's going on?

445
00:29:21,799 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 16: Now?

446
00:29:24,039 --> 00:29:26,319
Speaker 9: Well this folks, come out. There's you what is fo

447
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:26,759
call you?

448
00:29:26,799 --> 00:29:27,559
Speaker 5: That what the phone?

449
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,359
Speaker 9: Yeah, there's just a zero one five yes.

450
00:29:31,359 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 10: Two zero five zero Now twenty fifteen two zero one five.

451
00:29:39,119 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 8: I came in and I can't.

452
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 9: I called from the driveway the second I drove in

453
00:29:44,279 --> 00:29:45,799
from a just second. Let me do this group of

454
00:29:45,839 --> 00:29:46,680
five book okay.

455
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,799
Speaker 10: Okay, thank you, yes, hello, yes, yes, I'm waiting on

456
00:29:51,799 --> 00:29:53,279
an officer and meet me at my mother's house.

457
00:29:53,319 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 9: I can follow missing person three four, I call it

458
00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:03,720
three forty okay, what's your address? Twenty fifteen Avenue? Okay.

459
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 3: What Ronda didn't know was that her parents' kindness and

460
00:30:10,599 --> 00:30:15,920
generosity had backfired on them, as happens to good people

461
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,319
from time to time, especially in the world we live

462
00:30:19,359 --> 00:30:22,960
in today. It's always someone trying to take advantage of

463
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:27,039
you in one way or another. Just look around. Just

464
00:30:27,039 --> 00:30:30,240
look at those plus prices. Am I right? Remember that

465
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,319
the neighbor's home had just been robbed. That was now

466
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,720
becoming the assumption with Carol and Reggie. Their disappearance was

467
00:30:39,279 --> 00:30:43,119
in fact tied to a burglary, but not by the

468
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,319
same burglars who entered the neighbor's home.

469
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:46,799
Speaker 5: Weird.

470
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 3: The couple had very recently moved to Jacksonville, Florida, to

471
00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:55,240
be near relatives and also one of Reggie's closest friends

472
00:30:55,279 --> 00:30:59,079
who was dying of cancer. This man was divorced because

473
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,480
he'd been in prison. His daughter, Tiffany was living with

474
00:31:03,559 --> 00:31:07,559
her mom at the time. Tiffany was a good student,

475
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,519
a cheerleader, and a band member, but she also had

476
00:31:11,559 --> 00:31:15,039
a lot of demands at home, like basically raising her

477
00:31:15,119 --> 00:31:19,559
younger brother. By the tenth grade, she had tired of

478
00:31:19,599 --> 00:31:22,759
all of this and was starting to hang with the

479
00:31:22,799 --> 00:31:27,240
wrong drug using crowd. When she discovered that her dad

480
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,359
was ill and no one was around to help him,

481
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,440
it was a win win situation. She would go stay

482
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:39,039
with him and she would escape her demanding life. Within

483
00:31:39,079 --> 00:31:44,279
that time, she met the Sumners, Carol and Reggie. They

484
00:31:44,319 --> 00:31:46,920
could see that she had a kind heart and a

485
00:31:47,039 --> 00:31:51,240
helpful mindset. After all, she was supporting her dad in

486
00:31:51,279 --> 00:31:56,000
this time of need, despite having serious health conditions of

487
00:31:56,039 --> 00:31:58,880
their own. They had also been helping out their friend

488
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:05,680
Tiffany's dad in his struggles. The Sumners, in their extreme generosity,

489
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,079
knew that Tiffany needed a car, so they sold her

490
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,960
their extra vehicle. Not only did they give her a

491
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,680
sweet deal, but they also let her make payments on

492
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:22,440
the car with no interest. During their conversations, the Sumners

493
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,319
made the ultimate mistake of discussing their finances with the

494
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,160
girl they thought they could trust, the one that was

495
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:36,319
doing drugs. Tiffany returned to her South Carolina home after

496
00:32:36,359 --> 00:32:39,680
her father died months later, but she remembered that the

497
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:44,680
Sumners extended an open invitation to their home anytime she'd

498
00:32:44,799 --> 00:32:48,000
liked to come and stay. She took them up on

499
00:32:48,079 --> 00:32:52,279
this directly after making the wrongest of wrong turns in

500
00:32:52,319 --> 00:32:57,920
her entire life hooking up with Michael Jackson at Myrtle Beach.

501
00:32:59,119 --> 00:33:01,720
And while hooking up with Michael Jackson was always a

502
00:33:01,759 --> 00:33:04,839
bad idea, this is not the same Michael Jackson you're

503
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,200
thinking of. Apparently it's a pretty common name. This one

504
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,720
didn't have a glittery glove and a couple of weird

505
00:33:11,799 --> 00:33:15,960
dance moves, and also an affinity for children. This one

506
00:33:16,519 --> 00:33:19,799
was a little different, starting with the fact that he

507
00:33:19,839 --> 00:33:26,240
was white, and this particular Michael Jackson was even shadier

508
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,839
than the one you already know in love because when

509
00:33:29,839 --> 00:33:33,559
he robbed her, he stole her heart.

510
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:35,839
Speaker 15: The girl was feeling me, but I wasn't feeling her.

511
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:36,599
Speaker 17: It wasn't like that.

512
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 15: I don't want to I don't want to be in

513
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:38,880
the same room.

514
00:33:39,039 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 17: How long you've been hanging out with her?

515
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,279
Speaker 15: Man? I met Deggar, I met this girl man South Carolina.

516
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:46,079
I met this girl. Man.

517
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:47,079
Speaker 17: I robbed the girl.

518
00:33:47,119 --> 00:33:47,279
Speaker 9: Man.

519
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 15: That's how I met him.

520
00:33:48,279 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 11: Man.

521
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 15: I didn't even rob her.

522
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 17: Man, it was just like, yeah, rob but he wasn't

523
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:53,319
like robbing.

524
00:33:53,359 --> 00:33:54,079
Speaker 15: And you know what I'm saying.

525
00:33:54,119 --> 00:33:56,599
Speaker 16: She had a little black box, had cogaon and weed

526
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,480
and it and a munch of money in it, you know.

527
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 15: What I'm saying that.

528
00:34:01,119 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 17: But I was into the room.

529
00:34:02,799 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 16: She didn't, you know, let me in the rooms, and

530
00:34:04,279 --> 00:34:06,920
technically I stole it, but I mean, you know, whatever

531
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,760
is whatever, and I mean, you're not gonna call it

532
00:34:09,079 --> 00:34:10,559
this minute. Stole my dope, you know what I'm saying,

533
00:34:10,599 --> 00:34:12,079
You ain't gonna call and saying ship like that.

534
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 15: I gave it, Coche gave it weight kept it was

535
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:15,880
like eight hundred and I kept eight honey.

536
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 16: But I messed up because she had my cell phone

537
00:34:18,039 --> 00:34:19,719
him because me and her chill earlier that day.

538
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,639
Speaker 15: And then she called me like that, like bringing my

539
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,360
box back, and I'm just cligged.

540
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,079
Speaker 16: I ain't talking to that girl even answering the phone,

541
00:34:27,119 --> 00:34:29,119
texting me, I'm gonna do this.

542
00:34:29,159 --> 00:34:31,519
Speaker 15: I'm gonna do this. I'm just you don't even know me.

543
00:34:31,559 --> 00:34:32,400
You know. When was that though?

544
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,760
Speaker 17: I mean, how long have you known Tiffany since? Man,

545
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:35,440
since May?

546
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 16: And that, like I said, that ship started in a weed.

547
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,199
Later she calls me, a, I just want to talk

548
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:41,360
to you.

549
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:47,159
Speaker 15: I talked to her, and then Tiffany's wself. It was, yeah,

550
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,119
I had coging it. She she thought she was a

551
00:34:49,119 --> 00:34:49,840
little drug dealer.

552
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 14: Man.

553
00:34:50,039 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 17: She had a little bit of tiff Yeah.

554
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,639
Speaker 16: It was like half hours of cold, some hydro weed

555
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:56,840
and the cash I gave.

556
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 15: Like I said, you can check my record. I got

557
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,599
no drug problem, drug regular n I was never in

558
00:35:01,679 --> 00:35:03,599
the drug. Everybody keep asking me May how much I

559
00:35:03,599 --> 00:35:04,320
don't crack or something.

560
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,639
Speaker 16: Man, I ain't never been in the drug man. But nah,

561
00:35:06,639 --> 00:35:08,320
I gave it due and kept the money and that

562
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,119
was it. And then, like I said, a week later.

563
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 15: Man, she I know that's just crazy. It's just I mean,

564
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:14,440
it's ironic.

565
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 16: It's help with And then, like I said, man, when

566
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,880
the whole thing started this man, Like I said, Man,

567
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,800
Tiffany knew these people, man, she knew they had money.

568
00:35:24,039 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 3: True, Tiffany was making poor choices even before Michael Jackson

569
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:34,440
came along, but her infatuation with this stereotypical bad boy

570
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:42,440
intensified matters. Things escalated fast. Whether she really wanted to

571
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,480
take the money or was just trying to impress Michael,

572
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:47,639
the result was the same.

573
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,199
Speaker 18: How do you get from that to let's go get

574
00:35:50,199 --> 00:35:51,920
the money?

575
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,760
Speaker 16: Because when somebody comes up to me and says, look,

576
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,880
there's a one hundred thousand dollars at stake, you know

577
00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:58,239
what I'm saying.

578
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 15: It's a one hundred thousand dollars supposedly sold.

579
00:36:01,079 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 16: The townhouse for like ninety some thousand, and you know this,

580
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:06,960
this and this, and I'm just sitting there listening to

581
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,280
this shit, and it's first in my mind it's like, yeah, whatever.

582
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,280
But then again, at the same time, you ain't just

583
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:16,239
gonna steal somebody credit card and jack no ninety thousand dollars, you.

584
00:36:16,199 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 15: Know what I'm saying. But I motherfucker picking up a

585
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,039
phone and say, hey, uh are you are you mean?

586
00:36:20,159 --> 00:36:22,159
Credit card company gonna call and say are you meaning

587
00:36:22,199 --> 00:36:22,920
to take this money off?

588
00:36:23,039 --> 00:36:23,559
Speaker 11: You know what I'm saying.

589
00:36:23,599 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 17: That's common sense.

590
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 16: So it's like, no, no, no, no, I can I

591
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,719
can do this perfect? You know what I'm saying, they

592
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,360
know me, they trust me, this, this and this.

593
00:36:33,519 --> 00:36:35,760
Speaker 17: Hey, look, I'll do the credit card.

594
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 15: Y'all get the card. I'm down whatever.

595
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 16: You know what I'm saying. I'll do the rest. I

596
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,440
got my computer. I'll do the rest. Y'all get the card,

597
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:42,360
don't matter.

598
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,199
Speaker 17: I'll go to the ATM. I'll show my face.

599
00:36:44,199 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 15: I mean, come on, that's bold. You know what I'm saying.

600
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:47,159
That's fucking bold.

601
00:36:47,199 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 17: I'm you know what I'm saying.

602
00:36:49,559 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 15: So it's like, y'all do whatever. I'll do the rest.

603
00:36:51,559 --> 00:36:53,599
I mean, man, that's another thing. I'm murdered.

604
00:36:53,639 --> 00:36:57,599
Speaker 12: I'm not gonna show my face at something different.

605
00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,280
Speaker 17: Don't you already know they're dead?

606
00:37:00,199 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 15: Yes?

607
00:37:01,159 --> 00:37:05,159
Speaker 18: Okay, but feeling hear to the ATM, Yes, okay, you

608
00:37:05,199 --> 00:37:08,719
already know they're dead ATM with them alive.

609
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 3: By the time Michael and Tiffany put the Sumner's money

610
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,880
into their own hands, the couple was indeed dead, but

611
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:22,119
Michael and Tiffany weren't the only ones who benefited. Two

612
00:37:22,199 --> 00:37:27,920
other players were in the mix, Bruce Nixon and Alan Wade.

613
00:37:29,079 --> 00:37:32,519
Alan Wade was eighteen years old and living with his mom,

614
00:37:33,119 --> 00:37:35,239
who was doing the best she could to keep him

615
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,519
out of trouble. Here, she talks about a call she

616
00:37:38,599 --> 00:37:41,760
received from middle school when he was just a pre teen.

617
00:37:42,599 --> 00:37:45,639
Speaker 7: He never got over me leaving his dad. He never

618
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,119
got over his dad leaving him.

619
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:53,119
Speaker 13: He had missed so much school, even though I was

620
00:37:53,199 --> 00:37:57,119
dropping him off in the morning, that I either had

621
00:37:57,199 --> 00:38:00,519
to withdraw him from school or I was going to

622
00:38:00,599 --> 00:38:01,719
end up in jail.

623
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 7: That's what they told me, so I withdrew him from school.

624
00:38:06,159 --> 00:38:07,119
Speaker 5: In the eighth grade.

625
00:38:08,039 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 3: A separate phone call resulted in even more dire consequences.

626
00:38:12,679 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 13: They said he had said he was going to commit suicide.

627
00:38:17,119 --> 00:38:21,239
I drove out there immediately, and I talked to one

628
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,280
of the councilors, a teacher or somebody, and the police

629
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,440
were there. They were chasing him through the neighborhood because

630
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,760
he had left the school grounds, and when they finally

631
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,000
found him, the Baker Acted him.

632
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 3: The Baker Act is a law that allows parents or

633
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,840
authorities to place children in psychiatric facilities if they present

634
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:46,000
harm to themselves or others. Coming from South Florida, I

635
00:38:46,039 --> 00:38:48,400
know all about the Baker Act.

636
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:49,599
Speaker 14: I know he.

637
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,760
Speaker 7: Thinks I didn't love him. I tried.

638
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,519
Speaker 14: I mean, I love him. He doesn't understand that I

639
00:38:56,639 --> 00:39:01,280
depended on him to be the strong and that was

640
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:05,920
wrong of me. I threatened to kick him out, never

641
00:39:06,119 --> 00:39:07,920
dreaming that he would go.

642
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 13: I was thinking, Okay, I threatened to kick him out,

643
00:39:12,039 --> 00:39:14,320
He's gonna say, I'm sorry, Mommy, I'm sorry. I'll behave,

644
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:19,159
I'll behave. I did not want him to leave, but

645
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:19,599
he did.

646
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,280
Speaker 3: Alan's dad wasn't in the picture. And now his mom

647
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:29,519
had cancer because she had to have chemotherapy and radiation.

648
00:39:30,559 --> 00:39:33,559
And my heart goes out to all of you who

649
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:35,719
are listening right now and have cancer. Some of you

650
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,320
are in the audience right now listening to this. Carol,

651
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,800
I'm thinking about you. The other Carol shout out, stay

652
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:48,519
healthy anyway. Yeah, cancer is a bitch. But because she

653
00:39:48,559 --> 00:39:50,800
had to go through all this shit, the chemo therapy,

654
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:56,679
the radiation, the just endless hospital visits, Alan left and

655
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,760
was taken in by a friend of his mother until

656
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,880
she was able to be stronger and take care of him.

657
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:09,320
He was only fifteen at the time. Unfortunately, this woman

658
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,360
who took care of Allan when he was fifteen, she

659
00:40:14,119 --> 00:40:18,840
wasn't financially capable of taking care of him, so she

660
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:23,960
asked for compensation embarrassed. Alan's mom didn't want to pay

661
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,159
for someone to take care of her son. According to her,

662
00:40:29,039 --> 00:40:31,760
she took him back because she didn't know what else

663
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:36,159
to do. He was her baby. A year later, he

664
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:40,679
met twenty three year old jobless Michael Jackson and started

665
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,159
constantly hanging out with him, eventually moving into an apartment

666
00:40:44,679 --> 00:40:45,440
with Michael.

667
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 13: Michael seemed to be an intelligent kind of guy. Friendly

668
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,000
when I first met him, just talkative and just kind

669
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,519
of on the showy side, you know, like he had

670
00:40:58,559 --> 00:40:59,960
a big personality.

671
00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 7: He was very.

672
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 13: Confident, and I thought, well, you know, he's a little cocky,

673
00:41:04,519 --> 00:41:08,239
but you know, he's a boy. It was in the

674
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,239
parking lot. This is after I had learned about Michael's

675
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:17,840
real personality. I was driving through the parking lot coming

676
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,599
home and I saw him sitting there on the back

677
00:41:19,639 --> 00:41:21,599
of a car, and I said, Michael, do you know

678
00:41:21,639 --> 00:41:25,559
where Alan's at? And he proceeded to tell me that

679
00:41:25,559 --> 00:41:27,519
that was none of my business. He was taking care

680
00:41:27,559 --> 00:41:31,320
of Allan and I just leave Alan alone. He's my

681
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,519
concern now. And I said, is that a stolen car

682
00:41:35,519 --> 00:41:38,800
you're sitting on? And he got right up in my

683
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,719
face in the window and threatened me that you just

684
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,280
stay out of my business and just go on if

685
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:47,440
you don't want anything.

686
00:41:47,079 --> 00:41:48,039
Speaker 7: To happen to Alan.

687
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 3: Alan's mom knew immediately that Michael was bad news. Moms

688
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:59,559
know these sort of things instinctually, so she started apartment

689
00:41:59,599 --> 00:42:03,320
hunting for her and Alan and managed to find a

690
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:07,559
two bedroom places that she could barely afford. When they

691
00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:11,000
moved in, she begged Allan not to tell Michael where

692
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:11,639
they were living.

693
00:42:12,679 --> 00:42:14,119
Speaker 7: And I had told him. I said, I don't want

694
00:42:14,159 --> 00:42:15,679
Michael to know where I'm at because I.

695
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,599
Speaker 13: Was afraid of Michael because of he threatened me, and

696
00:42:21,639 --> 00:42:24,519
I was afraid if I got in the middle of

697
00:42:24,559 --> 00:42:28,519
something he would harm Alan. And Michael came to my

698
00:42:28,599 --> 00:42:35,039
apartment and I just exploded on him. I just went

699
00:42:35,119 --> 00:42:39,039
off on this boy. And he sat there and looked

700
00:42:39,159 --> 00:42:42,039
me stone faced in the eye the whole time I

701
00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:43,639
was yelling at him.

702
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:47,599
Speaker 7: With a stupid smirk on his face. He had no

703
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:52,960
regard for my feelings, for Alan's feelings, for anybody. And

704
00:42:54,039 --> 00:42:58,400
he finally, just when I finally stopped, he got up

705
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,000
and just sid care what you think, and he walked away.

706
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 3: There was one more character in this gang of robbers,

707
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:12,800
it was eighteen year old Bruce Dixon. Bruce was a

708
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:18,280
follower an NPC if you will, someone with his own

709
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:22,760
set of troubles and empty family life. Bruce and Alan

710
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,039
were longtime friends, and in fact, he would later state

711
00:43:26,079 --> 00:43:30,519
that he viewed Alan's mom as his own. But Bruce

712
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,719
was about to be a young dad and was stressed

713
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,039
over not being able to provide a life for his

714
00:43:36,199 --> 00:43:41,280
child until he was introduced to Michael Jackson and Tiffany.

715
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:46,119
Michael and Tiffany were in Jacksonville partying together when the

716
00:43:46,159 --> 00:43:49,440
group met each other. Tiffany would be heading back to

717
00:43:49,519 --> 00:43:53,800
South Carolina, but the couple wanted one more night in Florida.

718
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,719
The four came up with a plan to rob the Sumners,

719
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,760
and it would start with Tiffany and my Michaels spending

720
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,760
a night or two with them. She still needed to

721
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,760
sign papers for the car title and this would be

722
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:11,280
a way to introduce them to her boyfriend and of course,

723
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,400
get a first hand view of the home the one

724
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:20,039
they intended to rob. On the evening of July eighth,

725
00:44:20,639 --> 00:44:25,639
Michael Jackson convinced Bruce, who just turned eighteen, to canvass

726
00:44:25,679 --> 00:44:30,239
the Sumner neighborhood for four shovels, one for each of

727
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,079
the robbers. They all took part in digging a four

728
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,360
by six foot hole in the woods nearby, and then

729
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:43,760
returned to the Sumner home to collect Their accounts differed

730
00:44:44,039 --> 00:44:47,400
from one another in an effort to save their own lives,

731
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:52,199
but the bare truth was that the Sumners were thrown

732
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:56,559
into that hole one by one. The teens and young

733
00:44:56,599 --> 00:45:00,840
adults were interviewed, but not one confessed.

734
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 15: I'm going off with what I was went good that

735
00:45:04,679 --> 00:45:06,239
you didn't have anything to do with the.

736
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,079
Speaker 17: With anybody getting hold Is that right?

737
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,280
Speaker 7: I wanted to wait through everything that was going on.

738
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 15: Don't know what happened?

739
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:17,679
Speaker 10: What do you let at the house?

740
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:18,559
Speaker 17: I know you're at the house.

741
00:45:18,559 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 12: What happened when you left the house?

742
00:45:21,119 --> 00:45:22,039
Speaker 17: Well let the house?

743
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 9: Yeah?

744
00:45:23,039 --> 00:45:25,519
Speaker 4: You said you were in the car waiting and they

745
00:45:25,519 --> 00:45:26,519
called you to come around.

746
00:45:28,039 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 8: That's when I followed them out to the spot where

747
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:40,400
and wanted out the woods and.

748
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 5: I wanted to Bruce and Mike or or why you're

749
00:45:39,039 --> 00:45:41,440
in a car. You were driving and you can pass

750
00:45:41,559 --> 00:45:42,159
your teeth.

751
00:45:42,639 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 8: So where's the where's the.

752
00:45:45,639 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 15: Where's ready and kill?

753
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,199
Speaker 8: At that point, both of.

754
00:45:50,199 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 17: Them in the trunk, you know, if they were alive

755
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,480
at that time, and it said when.

756
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 19: No one else I thought, I bet the hose.

757
00:46:01,079 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 5: How did Ready and Carol'll get in the car?

758
00:46:04,159 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 7: In the car pick?

759
00:46:07,039 --> 00:46:11,599
Speaker 3: Let's be very clear here, Carol and Reggie were alive

760
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:16,320
in the trunk of that car. Their mouths were duct taped,

761
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,360
and they were embracing each other, crying, wondering how a

762
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:24,079
girl they treated like their own daughter could have done

763
00:46:24,079 --> 00:46:28,039
this to them. I want you to close your eyes

764
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,199
and picture yourself in that situation.

765
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 18: What about when we let when he let the how

766
00:46:34,559 --> 00:46:40,000
can we got Ellen and both of what part.

767
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:40,519
Speaker 17: Of the car.

768
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:44,079
Speaker 15: At any time?

769
00:46:45,519 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 12: Were you in that car in the Lincoln?

770
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:54,679
Speaker 20: But Mike was in the cart, not a Lincoln, not

771
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:55,320
in a Lincoln.

772
00:46:56,519 --> 00:46:58,039
Speaker 5: When they got rid of the botom, they ordered to

773
00:46:58,119 --> 00:46:59,920
drop back out, but Mike would have been in the link.

774
00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:03,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was down one be now you might get

775
00:47:03,679 --> 00:47:04,599
back from where they were.

776
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 17: They drove back out then the right, but did dry

777
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:11,280
might not.

778
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 9: Walking out earth?

779
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 7: And then they come out with the car You might

780
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:15,800
I guess kind of lead they would.

781
00:47:15,599 --> 00:47:16,559
Speaker 15: Get a woods or whatever.

782
00:47:17,079 --> 00:47:19,119
Speaker 7: I don't I don't exactly know how the.

783
00:47:19,079 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 17: Act of the Mike came walking out, and then they came.

784
00:47:22,159 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 12: Out with the car.

785
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:29,119
Speaker 11: At any point did they talk about hunting Reggie or

786
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:30,199
Carol and fronting.

787
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 17: They didn't say nothing like that.

788
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,079
Speaker 11: And gonn mean when did you first hear them talk

789
00:47:36,119 --> 00:47:38,880
about duc pay?

790
00:47:41,639 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 5: Nothing. They were in the out talking about what they

791
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,199
were getting out the fund. Nobody.

792
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,159
Speaker 17: I went out when I heard over the radio today

793
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:49,440
they hit the button.

794
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:51,760
Speaker 7: And they were saying coming like where did the duct

795
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:52,920
paper or something like.

796
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,119
Speaker 5: That, you know thing that I guess them keep them

797
00:47:56,119 --> 00:47:58,960
together or whatever. When you left.

798
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:03,159
Speaker 17: That's how And Mike was with you, and.

799
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:10,039
Speaker 3: They alan Scott Bruce baster seat and there a new Lincoln.

800
00:48:10,079 --> 00:48:12,199
Speaker 1: You fall on them.

801
00:48:11,599 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 2: M okay, you got talking on the front and back

802
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,639
and forth at that point, well, Michael.

803
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:19,199
Speaker 8: One, Mike was talking down.

804
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 17: I mean I would be done, you know, things building

805
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:22,559
just kind of like.

806
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 8: You in my old little world behind them, you know anything,

807
00:48:26,559 --> 00:48:26,960
what are.

808
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 17: You thinking at this point?

809
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:30,760
Speaker 11: Well then you get all this stuff and you got

810
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:32,559
thunders in the trunk of the car in front of you.

811
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,320
Speaker 3: I thought, I mean, I don't even never not breaking out,

812
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,119
and I was kind of freaking out, and you.

813
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:39,159
Speaker 10: Know, and not trying to be.

814
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,079
Speaker 5: Totally obvious about it, you know what I'm saying.

815
00:48:43,119 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 17: But at the same time, one, you know.

816
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:46,679
Speaker 9: This was not not kept an idea.

817
00:48:47,119 --> 00:48:47,679
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying.

818
00:48:47,679 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 9: This is nony.

819
00:48:48,679 --> 00:48:50,760
Speaker 4: You got talked about robbery though, I mean, you're.

820
00:48:50,599 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 10: Gonna go get the stuff, but you didn't and you

821
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,159
count on the the end result there is that pretty.

822
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,280
Speaker 15: Much I'm not I don't want word your mouth, opay,

823
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:03,599
and I mean pretty much you were going to go

824
00:49:03,639 --> 00:49:05,599
get your job. That one did.

825
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 5: We're supposed to end.

826
00:49:08,519 --> 00:49:08,760
Speaker 13: That was.

827
00:49:09,119 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 3: But then Tiffany was a liar and she knew exactly

828
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:19,239
how to manipulate others. The scheme began with the exploitation

829
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:24,800
of two elderly souls kind friends who had stood by

830
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:30,119
her father's side during his darkest hours. Despite dealing with

831
00:49:30,159 --> 00:49:32,360
their own serious problems. They were happy to give a

832
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:38,320
helping hand simply because they were happy and wanted to

833
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:44,559
give back. Their altruism reached beyond their own relatives, extending

834
00:49:44,559 --> 00:49:51,880
directly to Tiffany's father and Tiffany herself. Yet beneath the

835
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:57,000
pretense of Tiffany's gratitude lurked a treacherous plot that she

836
00:49:57,079 --> 00:50:02,360
had masterfully orchestrated. She understood the horrible beginning and the

837
00:50:02,559 --> 00:50:08,719
inevitable conclusion. Next, Michael was brought to the station after

838
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:14,880
waiting his turn in jail. Michael, the oldest may or,

839
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,199
may not have been the sharpest of the four, but

840
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:21,920
he sure thought he was. He thought he was so smart,

841
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,639
in fact, that he believed he'd be able to wiggle

842
00:50:24,679 --> 00:50:29,920
out of previous incriminating statements and somehow bargain himself out

843
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:31,039
of life in prison.

844
00:50:31,559 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 16: Played a simple bloode according, what do I gotta do?

845
00:50:34,039 --> 00:50:35,719
What do I gotta say? I don't care what I

846
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,119
gotta write, say do point.

847
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:38,519
Speaker 15: This, this and this.

848
00:50:39,199 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 16: My biggest thing, man is I'm trying to push this

849
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:42,920
thing a little bit faster. If I got to do this,

850
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,719
this and this, and I'm trying to go home, probably.

851
00:50:46,119 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 5: Just start by telling the truth some sort of worse

852
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:50,480
about what happened in so.

853
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:55,320
Speaker 16: They ain't no way to like get lesser charged, you

854
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:57,119
know what I'm saying, Like because.

855
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:58,519
Speaker 5: I already know like Petty's after something.

856
00:50:58,599 --> 00:51:00,559
Speaker 16: No, no, no, because I already knew y'all got all of

857
00:51:00,599 --> 00:51:02,639
us on the same indictment that right there is pushing

858
00:51:02,679 --> 00:51:03,320
for conspiracy.

859
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,599
Speaker 5: Saying tell me tell me something about Alan Bridge or

860
00:51:07,599 --> 00:51:10,639
Timpany that you think we don't know, said, I don't know.

861
00:51:10,639 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 17: What's I don't know?

862
00:51:12,079 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 5: Started the beginning there, murder.

863
00:51:15,079 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 17: Old on, robery, kidnapping.

864
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 5: My biggest thing.

865
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 15: How do y'all charge meat?

866
00:51:19,639 --> 00:51:22,199
Speaker 18: The sounds really good and all, except for I think

867
00:51:22,199 --> 00:51:26,840
you told us something about uh, you tell something about

868
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:32,360
the graves, graves or the whole?

869
00:51:33,519 --> 00:51:38,159
Speaker 5: Yeah, you no problem with that?

870
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:41,039
Speaker 15: Well, what about the whole?

871
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,679
Speaker 18: He told us they were pre dug. You told us

872
00:51:44,679 --> 00:51:47,199
that where they put the whole was pre dug. You

873
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:49,199
told us it was to scare them. And then you

874
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,639
told us she held the flashlight while they shot a

875
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,639
nerd onto. Oh, I don't even want of that night

876
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:57,960
that night. You hope you hope that would be enough

877
00:51:58,000 --> 00:51:59,400
to get you out of there that night because you

878
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,400
didn't have involvement in your mind and dealing with that

879
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:06,000
any of those okay, but they ain't know damn White.

880
00:52:06,039 --> 00:52:08,559
You got dropped off somewhere else and you were you

881
00:52:08,639 --> 00:52:11,400
were not even there. You were smoking with somebody else

882
00:52:12,159 --> 00:52:14,320
while everybody else just disappeared, took care of all this

883
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:15,519
stuff that you had no idea.

884
00:52:15,599 --> 00:52:16,519
Speaker 17: Everybody disappeared.

885
00:52:16,639 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 15: Tiffany was there. Tiffany was there with me and Jacob.

886
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 5: It was physically impossible. He always that hole. For two

887
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,199
people to dig that hole in that amount of time spanding,

888
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:29,760
it's nothing happened. Can you kind of had a back yeah,

889
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,039
because we had to have a back home to get

890
00:52:33,079 --> 00:52:33,440
him out.

891
00:52:33,519 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 16: You can't even say that because, I mean, I don't

892
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:40,320
know what the whole looked like. I didn't seen marines

893
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:42,639
man digging six by six man in twenty minutes.

894
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,159
Speaker 15: I mean just because mentally, you know what I'm saying.

895
00:52:46,159 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 18: Are you Tiffany Alan or Bruce Greens?

896
00:52:50,559 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 15: Oh?

897
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 18: Okay, yeah, probably no, probably digging in a little six

898
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:54,199
my six.

899
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 16: You just killed two people in your't mind you digging

900
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,480
a whole ship man? You're gonna be like like if

901
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,880
people feel like he just did als of cole shit,

902
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,360
why would there before shovels?

903
00:53:07,039 --> 00:53:10,599
Speaker 15: Like I said, run prince Man, run forensics, run everything. Man,

904
00:53:11,199 --> 00:53:11,599
damn that.

905
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 17: I ain't ary no people. I ain't touch no people.

906
00:53:15,519 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 3: Michael was shameless, trying every angle he could think of

907
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:24,159
to escape or minimize charges. Next, he attempted the old

908
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:29,159
quid pro co. Remember that quid pro qo. We all

909
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:31,199
learned what that meant at the same time, I think

910
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:36,559
I give you something, you give me something back, you know. Politics.

911
00:53:37,599 --> 00:53:41,559
He began telling the detectives that he knew the whereabouts

912
00:53:41,599 --> 00:53:45,480
of another criminal they were after, and he would tell

913
00:53:45,519 --> 00:53:49,599
them his secret. Oh I know where to do that.

914
00:53:49,679 --> 00:53:50,199
Speaker 15: Right now.

915
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 17: I don't know anything about the you know.

916
00:53:53,559 --> 00:53:55,079
Speaker 16: I mean, if y'all can look it up, I mean,

917
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:56,639
it'll it'll come back accurate.

918
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:58,519
Speaker 15: He's been in the most wonderful a minute now.

919
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:00,199
Speaker 5: I mean I don't that.

920
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:01,760
Speaker 15: It's just I'm trying to figure out.

921
00:54:01,679 --> 00:54:06,679
Speaker 16: Something anyway I get a bond, so okay, I can

922
00:54:06,679 --> 00:54:07,400
tell you right now.

923
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:08,639
Speaker 15: I ain't trying to go no way.

924
00:54:08,679 --> 00:54:10,679
Speaker 18: I mean, I'm won't be straight up with you, okay,

925
00:54:10,679 --> 00:54:13,000
because we haven't. We've been pretty much straight up from

926
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,320
the good capt You ain't getting the bond, okay.

927
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,679
Speaker 17: It ain't gonna happen. Get a bond okay because this

928
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:20,159
is a capital murder okay.

929
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 18: Uh and the capital murder offense has a no bond

930
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:27,239
in the state of Florida. You're not getting out, okay.

931
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:31,480
There's no opportunity whatsoever. I mean, you can tell me

932
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:35,360
right now where Haffa's buried. Who helps you know? Whoever,

933
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,480
shoot Kennedy. It's not gonna matter if you're not gonna

934
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:37,800
get out.

935
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 17: Okay.

936
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 3: Finally, after hours of arguing his case, Michael gave the

937
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:48,159
detectives some linear information, but he still blamed everyone but himself.

938
00:54:48,639 --> 00:54:51,760
Speaker 15: So anyway, it's already been laid out.

939
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 17: Tony gonna go in the house.

940
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:54,639
Speaker 15: She's gonna be like, look, I'm gonna go in there.

941
00:54:54,639 --> 00:54:57,039
Speaker 16: I'm gonna get them all comfortable, relaxed. They're gonna, you know,

942
00:54:57,159 --> 00:54:57,719
feel normal.

943
00:54:57,800 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 15: I'm in here. It ain't gonna it ain't gonna be

944
00:54:59,239 --> 00:54:59,719
no worries.

945
00:55:00,039 --> 00:55:02,519
Speaker 16: They saying, you know, y'all gonna come up, Ben, Ben,

946
00:55:03,039 --> 00:55:05,199
can I use a telephone call?

947
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:08,519
Speaker 15: To use the telephone and then let me get that?

948
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:10,559
You know what I'm saying next saying, I know, I'm

949
00:55:10,599 --> 00:55:12,440
just you know what I'm saying in the house.

950
00:55:13,519 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 17: What No, this was the plan.

951
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 15: Now, this ain't what happened. This is the plan. Okay.

952
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:21,480
I'm just sitting there like, damn, that's that's so. You

953
00:55:21,519 --> 00:55:22,599
know that sounds like the word.

954
00:55:22,639 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 16: You know what I'm saying, And you're right, then my mind,

955
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:26,280
I'm sitting there thinking, nobody get paid off of this ship.

956
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:27,599
You know what I'm saying, these foods are gonna be

957
00:55:27,639 --> 00:55:30,119
dumb asses, and I'm gonna get some money out of there.

958
00:55:30,119 --> 00:55:32,320
You know what I'm saying, It might as well go

959
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:34,119
for it, you know, be a fool, not too I mean,

960
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,960
I'm damn it clean. I put my hands on nothing.

961
00:55:37,039 --> 00:55:38,519
But then again, I'm sitting there thinking.

962
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:40,320
Speaker 15: I still don't know why I just walk up to

963
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:43,199
the ATM shefit. Oh yeah, I know you. Actually, I

964
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:45,719
don't get it for the money.

965
00:55:46,199 --> 00:55:47,800
Speaker 16: Nah, but it's still at the same time, am I

966
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,079
gonna walk up face showing him? You know what I'm

967
00:55:50,079 --> 00:55:52,960
saying that, I still run that in my head. That's

968
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:54,760
why I said, Man, it was like some of this

969
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:55,679
ship was retarded.

970
00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:57,519
Speaker 5: Man, So you don't got a plan?

971
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,639
Speaker 15: So okay, yeah, okay, act on the plane.

972
00:56:00,679 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 16: I'm gonna say that the night of the plant is

973
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:04,920
supposed to unfold. We go all the way to these

974
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:05,440
people's house.

975
00:56:05,519 --> 00:56:06,079
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying.

976
00:56:06,119 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 17: We go to the house, all four of y'all in

977
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:07,760
the master.

978
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:10,119
Speaker 16: Yeah, all four of us in the Masna, drop me

979
00:56:10,159 --> 00:56:11,280
off in the park. I don't want to be now

980
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:12,920
where near his house. I don't want to see shit.

981
00:56:14,199 --> 00:56:16,320
Speaker 3: You just heard him say that the other three in

982
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:18,960
the group dropped him off at the park and he

983
00:56:19,039 --> 00:56:22,440
wasn't anywhere near the house. He was claiming that he

984
00:56:22,519 --> 00:56:25,920
was basically just given the ATM card after the summoners

985
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,880
were robbed and killed for some reason. Yeah, that really

986
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:33,880
makes sense. Sure does anybody buy this shit?

987
00:56:34,519 --> 00:56:35,639
Speaker 17: Let me explain something to you.

988
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:41,119
Speaker 18: Okay, by law in Florida. If and this is really

989
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:44,800
far fetched. If because we've talked in pretty good detail

990
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,239
about what happened and everything else in the past. Okay,

991
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:50,760
if nothing else happened other than what you told us.

992
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:54,599
That you were there, and you said Alan and Bruce

993
00:56:54,679 --> 00:56:55,679
did all this stuff.

994
00:56:56,079 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 17: But you were there and he had knowledge of it,

995
00:56:58,679 --> 00:56:59,800
you can be charged with everything.

996
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 15: You're just as skilty as they. And what if I

997
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:03,880
wasn't there them? What if I just knew about it,

998
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:04,440
That's the thing.

999
00:57:04,559 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 16: What if I actually was not there, I just kind

1000
00:57:06,519 --> 00:57:08,320
of knew about it when I was saying that I was.

1001
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:11,079
Speaker 15: Then I'm telling you this, this and that, so you

1002
00:57:11,119 --> 00:57:12,559
know what I'm saying. I'm hoping I can go home

1003
00:57:12,639 --> 00:57:13,000
right there.

1004
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 18: That sounds really good and all, except for I think

1005
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:22,719
you told us something about uh, tell something about the graves.

1006
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 5: Graves or though the whole.

1007
00:57:28,159 --> 00:57:32,079
Speaker 18: Yeah, you're a.

1008
00:57:32,079 --> 00:57:32,559
Speaker 5: Problem with that.

1009
00:57:34,039 --> 00:57:35,679
Speaker 15: Whoa you what about the whole?

1010
00:57:36,079 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 18: He told us they were pre dug. You told us

1011
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:42,280
that where they put that the whole was pre dug.

1012
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:44,320
You told us it was to scare them. And then

1013
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:47,719
you told us she held the flashlight while they're onto. Oh,

1014
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:51,920
I don't even want that night that night, you hope

1015
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:53,679
you hoped that would be enough to get you out

1016
00:57:53,679 --> 00:57:56,280
of there that night because you didn't have direct involvement

1017
00:57:56,320 --> 00:58:00,280
in your mind and dealing with any of this. Okay,

1018
00:58:00,119 --> 00:58:02,840
damn White, you got to drop it off somewhere else,

1019
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:05,239
and you were you were not even there, and you

1020
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,920
were smoking with somebody else while everybody else just disappeared,

1021
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:10,679
took care of all this stuff that you had no eye.

1022
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:11,679
Speaker 17: Everybody disappeared.

1023
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:14,119
Speaker 15: Tiffany was there. Tiffany was there with me and Jacob.

1024
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 5: It was physically impossible he was that hole.

1025
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 15: For two people to dig that hole in that amount

1026
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:22,360
of time span, It's nothing that happened.

1027
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:27,239
Speaker 3: During the interview with Michael, he had already said some

1028
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:31,559
things that placed him at the hole, for instance, saying

1029
00:58:31,599 --> 00:58:33,840
that Carol and Reggie managed to get the duct tape

1030
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,599
off their mouths and hands while they were in the trunk,

1031
00:58:37,599 --> 00:58:41,400
Like admitting that he heard them praying together and confessing

1032
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:45,440
their love to each other, and like coldly telling how

1033
00:58:45,519 --> 00:58:48,400
Carol was moaning when they put her in the hole.

1034
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:53,960
He was moaning because she and Reggie were buried alive.

1035
00:58:55,280 --> 00:59:00,320
They died by inhaling the dirt from their early grave.

1036
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:30,239
After thirty eight years, the Sumners rekindled their high school romance.

1037
00:59:31,239 --> 00:59:34,719
Carol had already suffered in an abusive marriage that ended

1038
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:38,400
in her husband shooting her in the face and then

1039
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:43,000
killing himself, and currently Carol and Reggie both had significant

1040
00:59:43,039 --> 00:59:47,760
health issues that they were struggling with, yet they were

1041
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:53,960
living their dream a life together in sunny Florida. When

1042
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,880
their good friend fell ill, they nursed him in his

1043
00:59:57,119 --> 01:00:01,400
dying days and rewarded his daughter for her help with

1044
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:08,199
their altruism and ultimately their lives. On July eighth, two

1045
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:11,679
thousand and five, Tiffany and three male acquaintances robbed the

1046
01:00:11,719 --> 01:00:15,679
Sumners when two of them entered the home and found

1047
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:19,599
them with tape while they pointed a realistic looking toy

1048
01:00:19,679 --> 01:00:24,920
gun at them. Carol and Reggie both pleaded, saying they

1049
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:28,920
would give the intruders all the money they had. Michael

1050
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:32,360
and Tiffany waited in a car outside because Michael had

1051
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:35,199
given the order that he didn't want the Sumners to

1052
01:00:35,239 --> 01:00:40,480
see his or Tiffany's face. According to Michael, he was

1053
01:00:40,519 --> 01:00:43,800
going to inject them with a lethal dose of medicine

1054
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:48,800
and wait until they died to bury them. But that

1055
01:00:49,119 --> 01:00:55,320
is not what happened. The couple was alive when the

1056
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:59,679
dirt was piled on top of them. Think for just

1057
01:00:59,719 --> 01:01:05,599
a second of the horror of that, the sounds you

1058
01:01:05,639 --> 01:01:12,960
would hear, and then silence and darkness. By the time

1059
01:01:13,119 --> 01:01:17,760
Michael's last interview occurred, it was too late for him.

1060
01:01:18,039 --> 01:01:21,079
Tiffany and Allen weren't saying where the bodies were, but

1061
01:01:21,159 --> 01:01:24,119
Bruce Nixon was. Bruce was terrified.

1062
01:01:24,679 --> 01:01:25,719
Speaker 17: Just tell us where they're at.

1063
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:27,719
Speaker 12: Okay, let's just tell us where they're at.

1064
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:29,119
Speaker 5: If you want to start look at that. I tell

1065
01:01:29,199 --> 01:01:30,559
this mode you will tell you right now.

1066
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 10: I can't.

1067
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:34,679
Speaker 12: You're you're old enough to make that decision for yourself. Bruce,

1068
01:01:35,559 --> 01:01:38,079
I know I can't. I can't do that for you, man.

1069
01:01:38,119 --> 01:01:40,400
I'm telling you it's it's it's I'm not allowed to

1070
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:41,480
make that decision for you.

1071
01:01:42,639 --> 01:01:42,960
Speaker 17: Okay.

1072
01:01:44,119 --> 01:01:46,119
Speaker 12: Now you want me to be straight up, that's straight up.

1073
01:01:47,719 --> 01:01:49,360
I got to be straight up with you too. We

1074
01:01:49,519 --> 01:01:53,159
need to know where those bodies are. If you don't

1075
01:01:53,199 --> 01:01:55,360
want to tell us anything else, tell us where those

1076
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:55,960
bodies are.

1077
01:01:59,119 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 5: I wouldn't tell you.

1078
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 12: Oh I'm just Bruce.

1079
01:02:02,159 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 17: Yeah, look at me.

1080
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:07,079
Speaker 12: I wanna tell us, Bruce, I'm I'm looking at this

1081
01:02:07,239 --> 01:02:11,559
when I walk in here, I saw this. It's killing you, man, I.

1082
01:02:11,559 --> 01:02:14,599
Speaker 5: Know it is. If you don't I care where the president.

1083
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:17,679
Speaker 12: If you don't wanna tell us anything else, just tell

1084
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:18,800
us where these folks are at.

1085
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 17: Bruce, did I want straight to prison?

1086
01:02:21,159 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 5: Bruce?

1087
01:02:21,719 --> 01:02:23,199
Speaker 17: Just tell us where these folks are at.

1088
01:02:23,039 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 20: Birst I'm right what I tell you? Oh God, yeah,

1089
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:28,360
your head comfort. I'm gonna give you every word about right.

1090
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:32,639
Nobody see about baby or not. Well you it's good

1091
01:02:33,039 --> 01:02:33,360
about you.

1092
01:02:33,519 --> 01:02:41,519
Speaker 5: You well. We we can't change what's happening. I didn't care, Okay.

1093
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:42,599
Speaker 2: Now that's what we got honest.

1094
01:02:42,639 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 12: I said we we don't. That's why we makes weast

1095
01:02:45,039 --> 01:02:47,800
you be honest about their truth. I tell you our

1096
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:50,840
pray truth. If you tell me lies, I can't prove lize.

1097
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 11: Your prother You be her brother that the whole time

1098
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:56,480
I go good, I will your brothers.

1099
01:02:56,519 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 5: Go you right over the paper and tell me.

1100
01:02:59,079 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 12: I'll tell you right now to your face. I'm walking

1101
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:04,840
through this whole thing, this whole thing. You'll be a

1102
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:06,679
best stay if I tell you the truth that I'm

1103
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:08,760
right here with you. Man, it breaks my heart to

1104
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:10,360
be in here, that you're going through all this, But

1105
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:12,480
I'll be right here. If nobody will be right here

1106
01:03:12,519 --> 01:03:17,800
with you, I'll be here. All right, Can you drive better?

1107
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:19,719
Can you tell us? I know you kind of upset?

1108
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:36,079
Speaker 17: All right, Okay, just get this here. I'll tell you.

1109
01:03:36,119 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 15: But this is what happened.

1110
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 17: Okay, all right.

1111
01:03:40,119 --> 01:03:43,159
Speaker 2: Allan told me that we were gonna rob some people

1112
01:03:43,639 --> 01:03:46,039
and with some money and stuff.

1113
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 17: Didn't know these people, they all knew carrying the house

1114
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:51,320
and stuff.

1115
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:57,760
Speaker 11: Go ahead, I needed money to pay you out of family,

1116
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:09,239
nobody and nobody. So afterbody we went to the house.

1117
01:04:10,199 --> 01:04:11,599
Speaker 5: We would do planning our.

1118
01:04:11,559 --> 01:04:15,920
Speaker 2: Growing up there, and we're gonna go to the house.

1119
01:04:16,159 --> 01:04:21,000
And I was gonna go to the house and we

1120
01:04:21,079 --> 01:04:24,760
were just gonna tell for the money and stuff and

1121
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:30,760
get their eighteen cars and get old enough of this stuff.

1122
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:35,920
Speaker 5: Tell him, what if you have to take up her mouth.

1123
01:04:35,719 --> 01:04:37,159
Speaker 17: And stuff, what's up?

1124
01:04:37,599 --> 01:04:45,199
Speaker 2: We turned up their mouth and eyes, and they wouldn't

1125
01:04:45,199 --> 01:04:48,079
tell us we They wouldn't tell us all the bait

1126
01:04:48,199 --> 01:04:53,039
over nothing, but that dude, whatever his name.

1127
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:56,360
Speaker 5: The bike or saltbody of his name, told.

1128
01:04:56,239 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 2: Us to put him, take him up and put him

1129
01:05:00,039 --> 01:05:01,599
of the trunk of the wakeed.

1130
01:05:02,559 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 17: He never said we're gonna kill him, you know what

1131
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:05,320
I'm saying.

1132
01:05:05,559 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 11: Probably you know, he sold bring up where it was

1133
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:14,559
that they had a hold out of there.

1134
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 2: And then he said that he was just gonna scarel

1135
01:05:18,519 --> 01:05:20,159
and the telling him the bumpers.

1136
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:24,719
Speaker 19: And then when you were doing it, I walked away

1137
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:32,920
to the car, all right, state and I was walking

1138
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:38,119
up there, and about third later they walked back and

1139
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:39,280
asked the way one.

1140
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:40,719
Speaker 5: They said they took care.

1141
01:05:47,559 --> 01:05:48,639
Speaker 17: Were we all that? Bruce?

1142
01:05:52,239 --> 01:05:53,440
Speaker 5: I'll be there the whole time.

1143
01:05:54,559 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 3: Those moments in the interview were particularly emotional, not just

1144
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:02,920
because young Bruce Nixon was terrified and heading for a

1145
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:07,480
death sentence or lifetime in prison, but because the detective

1146
01:06:07,519 --> 01:06:11,119
had a son the same age as Bruce. When he

1147
01:06:11,159 --> 01:06:14,480
saw the boy trembling and crying, he moved his chair

1148
01:06:14,519 --> 01:06:18,480
a little closer, threw his arms around him and held

1149
01:06:18,519 --> 01:06:21,639
him for what seemed like a very very long time.

1150
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:26,079
During a two thousand and seven week long trial, Tiffany

1151
01:06:26,159 --> 01:06:30,599
Cole received a guilty verdict for first degree murder. The

1152
01:06:30,719 --> 01:06:34,719
jury's vote, nine to three recommended the death penalty after

1153
01:06:35,039 --> 01:06:39,079
seeing incriminating evidence, such as photographs capturing Tiffany and the

1154
01:06:39,119 --> 01:06:45,480
two co defendants reveling in a limousine, toasting with champagne

1155
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:52,679
and clutching wads of cash the sum nurse cash. Five

1156
01:06:52,719 --> 01:06:56,880
months later, a judge issued dual death sentences for the murders,

1157
01:06:57,559 --> 01:07:02,079
accompanied by a life sentence for the kidnaps. Alan Wade

1158
01:07:02,079 --> 01:07:07,199
and Michael Jackson also received death sentences, but Bruce Nixon

1159
01:07:07,239 --> 01:07:11,280
because he cooperated with law enforcement, because he talked, and

1160
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:14,159
he was guilty, and he had something to offer, he

1161
01:07:14,239 --> 01:07:17,960
got off with a little less. Put it that way,

1162
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:21,519
Bruce had taken law enforcement to the locations where the

1163
01:07:21,599 --> 01:07:26,639
bodies were buried and testified against the others. He entered

1164
01:07:26,639 --> 01:07:30,519
a guilty plea for second degree murder, earning him a

1165
01:07:30,559 --> 01:07:34,960
forty five year prison sentence instead of life. But fate

1166
01:07:35,679 --> 01:07:38,440
would intervene ten years later.

1167
01:07:39,119 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 21: It was Tiffany Cole who was the familiar face that

1168
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:45,119
Carol and Reggie Summoner invited into their home in July

1169
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:48,320
two thousand and five. She and two other friends used

1170
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:51,480
that friendship to plan their crime, asking for a place

1171
01:07:51,519 --> 01:07:54,360
to stay during a long trip. News for Jacks brought

1172
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:56,719
updates to the community every step of the way.

1173
01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 22: A neighbor tells family that she remembers seeing a strange

1174
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:03,480
come and go from the Sumner's house, and family says

1175
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,320
that they think that Carol and Reggie probably were just

1176
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:09,840
being nice, allowing the group to stay overnight so they

1177
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:12,199
didn't have to make the trip to and from Charleston

1178
01:08:12,559 --> 01:08:13,440
all in one day.

1179
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 21: The Sumner's' bodies were found days later in a shallow

1180
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:20,319
grave in Charlton County, Georgia. They had been buried alive,

1181
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:24,800
evidence technicians showing the shovels and crime scene photos at trial.

1182
01:08:25,239 --> 01:08:28,680
The three were convicted in separate trials. Tiffany Cole always

1183
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:31,880
pleaded to have her life spared. At her sentencing hearing,

1184
01:08:32,119 --> 01:08:36,640
Cole begged for a life sentence so she could help others. Ultimately,

1185
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:39,680
that hearing ended in tears for Cole. She was sentenced

1186
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:42,760
to death in a nine to three decision. Something that's

1187
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:46,319
now unconstitutional after a Supreme Court ruling last year that

1188
01:08:46,399 --> 01:08:51,199
found death penalty decisions need to be unanimous. Now, Cole

1189
01:08:51,279 --> 01:08:53,800
won't get a new sentencing hearing, and it's likely the

1190
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:56,039
two others who were convicted in the murders of the

1191
01:08:56,039 --> 01:08:59,439
Sumners will also get new hearings because their death sentences

1192
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:01,319
were also not unanimous.

1193
01:09:02,399 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 3: At the re sentencing, Alan Wade was given life due

1194
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:13,560
to mitigating circumstances newly introduced, but Michael Jackson was again

1195
01:09:14,319 --> 01:09:42,840
sentenced to death with a unanimous vote. At the end

1196
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:47,960
of the road, as we all, eventually we'll turn back

1197
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:51,239
and look behind us, we'll be able to finally see

1198
01:09:51,279 --> 01:09:55,920
how some of the winding and narrow detours came back

1199
01:09:55,960 --> 01:10:01,680
together on a straight, wide highway to our destiny. We

1200
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:07,039
can make sense of the map. Sometimes. Carol and Reggie

1201
01:10:07,039 --> 01:10:12,199
experienced some treacherous turns, but they found each other through

1202
01:10:12,239 --> 01:10:17,800
it all. They in a way, were both the luckiest

1203
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:22,840
people on earth and the unluckiest. That's how life is,

1204
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:29,159
That's how fate works in unpredictable ways. Yet the same

1205
01:10:29,199 --> 01:10:32,039
fate that reunited these lovers for a second chance also

1206
01:10:32,199 --> 01:10:38,199
brought with it tormented figures from their past, with their

1207
01:10:38,279 --> 01:10:45,319
own darkness and their own unresolved issues. Fate was about

1208
01:10:45,359 --> 01:10:48,720
to step in yet again and claim the lives of

1209
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:53,520
the Killers as well, but yet another turn at the

1210
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:59,359
last second occurred and their lives were spared. None of

1211
01:10:59,359 --> 01:11:06,159
it really makes any sense. Sometimes life doesn't make any sense.

1212
01:11:07,399 --> 01:11:11,760
Carol and Reggie may have met to dead end, so

1213
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:15,520
to speak, but at least they were able to go

1214
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:19,119
out knowing they tried to do some good in the world.

1215
01:11:20,239 --> 01:11:25,159
They tried, and life's ultimate surprise was allowing them one

1216
01:11:25,279 --> 01:11:31,840
final embrace with each other in their last moments on earth.

1217
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:53,439
That does it for another one. Thank you so much

1218
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:55,880
for joining us. If you like to show, Sword in

1219
01:11:56,000 --> 01:12:00,920
Scale television is available for you right now. Seven episodes

1220
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:04,239
available and many more coming soon. We're gonna start doing

1221
01:12:04,279 --> 01:12:07,920
two a month pretty soon, so great time to sign

1222
01:12:08,039 --> 01:12:11,640
up Sword and Scale dot Com. Stay saved.