Speaker 1: Callaroga Shark Media.
Speaker 2: Hi there, I'm Johnny Mack with your daily Comedy News
Speaker 2: Today crossover episode with The Letterman Podcast. Mike Chisholm is
Speaker 2: the host of The Letterman Podcast, and he had seen
Speaker 2: a list of the top ten late night host of
Speaker 2: all time and he didn't like the list, so he
Speaker 2: made his own and he wanted me to react to it.
Speaker 2: So over the Christmas break he was like, Hey'm going
Speaker 2: to send you a list. I'm like, don't send me
Speaker 2: the list. I don't want to see your list. I'll
Speaker 2: just react to it. So that's what you're going to
Speaker 2: hear right now.
Speaker 1: We've talked a little bit about your reaction to the
Speaker 1: Billboard Top twenty five Comedians of the Century. Well, there's
Speaker 1: been a few late night ones as well. One particular
Speaker 1: late night list came out, the top ten late night
Speaker 1: Hosts of All Time list, which I appreciated. It's hard
Speaker 1: when it's a mount rushmore when you got to pick four.
Speaker 1: It's hard when it's ten. You've got a little bit
Speaker 1: more breathing room and you can talk about things. I
Speaker 1: did not like the list that came out. I don't
Speaker 1: even want to, you know, I don't wanna. I wasn't
Speaker 1: a fan of the list that came out, and and
Speaker 1: and so I decided to pend my own top ten list,
Speaker 1: and I find I think that I did a pretty
Speaker 1: good job. I have not made this list public to anybody.
Speaker 1: You're the first person that's going to hear it. And
Speaker 1: the whole premise of the show was you reacting to
Speaker 1: what I think is the definitive top ten late night
Speaker 1: hosts in history list.
Speaker 2: So that got this up, you gotta say. From the
Speaker 2: home office in Vancouver, it's the top ten late night
Speaker 2: hosts of all time, topka late night hosts of all time,
Speaker 2: number ten.
Speaker 1: Okay, I got that, I got that in I got
Speaker 1: that in my head. And so what we're gonna do? Okay,
Speaker 1: from the home office in Lumbee, British Columbia, the top
Speaker 1: ten late night television hosts in history. For me, the
Speaker 1: top ten late night host it has to be started
Speaker 1: by Steve Allen. Number ten is Steve Allen. And this
Speaker 1: list is is I like this list because there's a
Speaker 1: couple that are sort of combined with each other. There
Speaker 1: are a couple that are kind of group together. But
Speaker 1: I start the list with Steve Allen because as far
Speaker 1: as I'm concerned, this is the guy that set the blueprint.
Speaker 1: You do talk about a blueprint that even in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five, the format is the same for the most part,
Speaker 1: the desk, the monologue, the guests, the panel, the way
Speaker 1: that they're set up. This is the guy that basically
Speaker 1: said this is how it's gonna be. Yes, there were
Speaker 1: shows before him, there were stuff that came along before him,
Speaker 1: but Steve Allen is the guy that actually set the tone,
Speaker 1: and all these years later, you know that blueprint is
Speaker 1: still being followed. So to me, you start the list
Speaker 1: with Steve Allen, you know, not because he was the
Speaker 1: first to do it. You make him number one, but
Speaker 1: you say, okay, you're the guy. You're the guy that's
Speaker 1: going to start the list, just like you're the guy
Speaker 1: that started the genre. That's why I positioned him at
Speaker 1: number ten.
Speaker 3: Oh absolutely.
Speaker 2: If we had a magic wand and you could take
Speaker 2: Steve Allen in his prime and say, you know, we're
Speaker 2: going to use doctor Who technology here, Steve Allen in
Speaker 2: your prime, right now, I need you to host. I
Speaker 2: need you to fill in for Johnny Carson on a
Speaker 2: Tuesday night in nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 3: Done.
Speaker 2: I need you to fill in on Late Night with
Speaker 2: David Letterman on a Monday in nineteen eighty five. No problem,
Speaker 2: where's the Alka Seltzer suit. I got this same note
Speaker 2: on Conan Hey, John Stewart's throwing up in the bathroom.
Speaker 2: You think you can wing the Daily Show for us? Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Jimmy Kimmel doesn't want to do it anymore. You want
Speaker 2: to show on ABC in twenty twenty eight, Sure, so
Speaker 2: on Steve Allen one.
Speaker 1: There we go, and and and the cool thing about
Speaker 1: Steve and not just Steve, but some of the other
Speaker 1: the other you know, pioneers of of of of this genre.
Speaker 1: If you go onto Don Giller's David Letterman YouTube channel,
Speaker 1: if you go to Don Giller's YouTube channel, there's the
Speaker 1: talk show host compilation. And I've talked about this one
Speaker 1: a lot. I don't know if there's any series. And
Speaker 1: this is a this is a big commitment because it's
Speaker 1: like there's seven parts to it, and I think they're
Speaker 1: all an hour each something like that. But it's in
Speaker 1: order every single talk show host appearance on one of
Speaker 1: David Letterman shows, and Steve Allen appeared on Late Night.
Speaker 1: I think you've appeared on the Morning Show too. Now
Speaker 1: I think about it the Morning Show and Late Night
Speaker 1: and it's it's it's really cool watching Steve. His influence
Speaker 1: on Dave is obvious in the first couple interactions. There's
Speaker 1: a nervousness that Dave has, and I love that about
Speaker 1: early Dave. You know, it's the exact opposite of where
Speaker 1: he is right now. He's not the elder statesman that
Speaker 1: can that can communicate with anybody. He is really nervous
Speaker 1: and UH. And and to watch Steve come in and
Speaker 1: and and and im part some wisdom and grace in
Speaker 1: doing so and even doing the show is such a
Speaker 1: cool thing. And and so I highly recommend that for
Speaker 1: people who love this stuff, highly recommend going and watching
Speaker 1: that compilation. UH number nine another trailblazer in his own right.
Speaker 1: Arcinio Hall and I have our studio here at number
Speaker 1: nine because, of course UH the first talk show host
Speaker 1: of of UH of color who has his own full
Speaker 1: time show. Johnny of course had guest hosts of color
Speaker 1: for the Tonight Show, but this is the first one
Speaker 1: that it's really helmed his own deal, and not just
Speaker 1: helmed his own deal, but was he was a culture,
Speaker 1: a significant person in culture, all culture. I was a
Speaker 1: huge hip hop fan growing up, and I love the
Speaker 1: music on late night. I love the music that would
Speaker 1: show up on late night. There was but but to
Speaker 1: be perfectly frank, the bullseye for me when it came
Speaker 1: to music on any late night talk show of me
Speaker 1: growing up, it was our Senio Hall, our senior Hall.
Speaker 1: Had phenomenal music, he had phenomenal guests. He had a
Speaker 1: different vibe to things, of course, and I thought, uh,
Speaker 1: just the way that he I mean, he's the guy
Speaker 1: that many people said, oh yeah, Carson's in trouble because
Speaker 1: this new hip person is coming in. And he was
Speaker 1: a cultural phenomenon as well. Obviously didn't have the lasting power,
Speaker 1: but at the same time significant enough to make it
Speaker 1: to the top ten.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely. If you think of a lot of people
Speaker 2: that took on the Johnny timeslot, if not Johnny specifically,
Speaker 2: they were all playing on Johnny's corner, Let's do something
Speaker 2: similar like if you looking like Pat, say, Jack Show,
Speaker 2: what is that? It's you know, it's the Tonight show
Speaker 2: without being the Tonight show, Like what are we doing?
Speaker 2: Whereas Arsenio did something different for a different audience. And
Speaker 2: there was a lot of different audience out there and
Speaker 2: both shows could coexist. You you are reminding me of
Speaker 2: the Carsenio sketch. Now, yes, I'm trying to remember. I've
Speaker 2: read several Carson books, and I can't remember where the
Speaker 2: experts have landed if that sketch actually bothered Johnny or not.
Speaker 2: But the Carsenio sketch, for people who have not seen it,
Speaker 2: it's on YouTube. It's a must watch, and it really
Speaker 2: speaks to that particular moment.
Speaker 1: It does and from where I from what I have heard,
Speaker 1: let me ask Mark Malkoff about it. But but yeah, Johnny,
Speaker 1: one of the things that gave Johnny pause in his
Speaker 1: entire career was Arcinio. But also Carcinio, the idea of
Speaker 1: of of of being able to, you know, maybe get
Speaker 1: maybe not a full on gut shot, but a grazing
Speaker 1: bullet to the bulletproof man. I think is something that
Speaker 1: happened there. And apparently Arsenio gave Johnny pause saying well,
Speaker 1: maybe it is time to hang it up. So I mean,
Speaker 1: that's that's significant in itself. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we all age, and I increasingly
Speaker 2: feel my own age, and I love doing my podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, at some point in the not
Speaker 2: crazy future, it's gonna be like, Okay, seventy year old
Speaker 2: man talking about Dane Cook. What David Letterman? That show
Speaker 2: aired sixty years ago, old timer, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2: You know, I do sort of have an unofficial line.
Speaker 2: I've never really pondered where it is. But there are
Speaker 2: comedic things that I don't talk about because it's like
Speaker 2: speaking a different language. I self possess profess to live
Speaker 2: on Old Man Mountain, and at some point it's just
Speaker 2: it's just not my thing. Somebody's doing something on TikTok.
Speaker 2: It's wonderful, it's great, people love it. I don't get
Speaker 2: it if you ever want to feel old. Every now
Speaker 2: and then Variety will do a top twenty, like you know,
Speaker 2: next gen Superstars of Media thing, and you go down
Speaker 2: the list you mentioned before, not being familiar with mister Beast,
Speaker 2: never mind mister Beast. You go down their top twenty
Speaker 2: listen and you're like, I don't know any of these people,
Speaker 2: which is fine, Which is fine. You know, I could
Speaker 2: say to my kids, Hey, there was this guy Dave,
Speaker 2: and he threw watermelons off a tower and they'll be like, yeah, okay, Boomer, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I keep saying that to my granddaughter, she's seven. I'm
Speaker 1: putting all this pressure on her, saying, you're the one
Speaker 1: that's got to keep me cool. You make sure you
Speaker 1: only like cool things.
Speaker 2: Okay, you see, there's no window here. So when he
Speaker 2: throws the card and it's a sound effect, and that's funny.
Speaker 2: It's funny because there's no window. Kids, it's really funny.
Speaker 1: What that being said? She and I because I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm playing he out the idea of her, of her
Speaker 1: doing some reaction videos to some of the stuff Dave did.
Speaker 1: When I put on Dave's stuff where he's throwing stuff
Speaker 1: off a tower, she absolutely to this day. Twenty in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, a seven year old girl laughs her
Speaker 1: little off when she sees him throwing stuff off the
Speaker 1: tower or running things over with the steamroller. She loved
Speaker 1: the running scens over with the steamroller. But oh, she
Speaker 1: asks to watch it. She's seven, So that gives me
Speaker 1: hope for that generation.
Speaker 2: Right, But like, what's funny about Larry Budd Melman not
Speaker 2: being able to really hear what Dave's saying. All the
Speaker 2: timing's wrong. The guy is not really delivering the lines. Well,
Speaker 2: like why is that funny?
Speaker 3: It just is? But like, hey, kids want to watch
Speaker 3: Larry Budd Melman. What?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. Okay, now you go. Now I've
Speaker 1: got it. Now I've got an assignment. Lara needs to
Speaker 1: see Larry Budd Melman and we'll have to find out.
Speaker 1: Number eight Craig Ferguson. The people that made this list
Speaker 1: are ones who definitely changed, who added something to the game.
Speaker 1: Maybe it didn't change the game, but they added something
Speaker 1: to me. Ferguson, you know, I loved him. My golden
Speaker 1: age in watching late night television, h was when I
Speaker 1: could watch late show Conan's Show on TBS and Craig Ferguson.
Speaker 1: I know that that is not necessarily popular to a
Speaker 1: lot of the purest. As far as I'm concerned, Conan
Speaker 1: and Ferguson are two that were influenced by guys like
Speaker 1: Dave and and some of this stuff that's out there
Speaker 1: that the esoteric stuff perhaps or you know, just the
Speaker 1: plain weird, uh, you know, and and the idea that
Speaker 1: he evolved his show to a place where he had
Speaker 1: a robot skeleton for a sidekick and they had a
Speaker 1: you know, two guys in a in a two man
Speaker 1: horse costume that would come in every single night, and
Speaker 1: the audience not only bought it, but they yearned for
Speaker 1: it when Secretariat would come in. You know, he had
Speaker 1: a he had a cult following. I really appreciate his sensibility,
Speaker 1: but he also brought some seriousness to the zaniness. You know,
Speaker 1: when he had Desmond tutu on as a guest or
Speaker 1: some of these other people that Craig ferguson to me,
Speaker 1: moved the ball up the field and did it in
Speaker 1: a very very compelling way. That's why he makes the
Speaker 1: list in the top ten. Did you did you ever?
Speaker 1: You know he started as a stand up I don't
Speaker 1: know if you guys his past ever would have crossed
Speaker 1: the curious thing? You must have?
Speaker 3: You must have?
Speaker 2: Yes, I got to work with Craig a handful of times.
Speaker 2: He came up, maybe to just do a guest appearance,
Speaker 2: and we asked him to do some vo for the
Speaker 2: Radio Classics channel, and he started improving and we're like, wait,
Speaker 2: there's something here, and he agreed to come back the
Speaker 2: next day. We grabbed this guy Ghosty, who was on
Speaker 2: the staff who could do voices and improv, you know,
Speaker 2: well enough to keep up with Craig Ferguson. And they
Speaker 2: came back and just rift and I forget what we
Speaker 2: even did with it, but it was just one of
Speaker 2: those magical things of like, oh, this is fun. I
Speaker 2: get to do this today. I'm going to just hang
Speaker 2: out in the studio and watch Craig Ferguson improv and
Speaker 2: really super nice guy. I've always said, not that he's
Speaker 2: a troll on TV, but he's in person. He's super handsome, Like,
Speaker 2: he's a really good looking dude. YEA. Loved working with him,
Speaker 2: would love to run into him again. I've got to
Speaker 2: see him just as a fan, you know, not going hey,
Speaker 2: can we meet you? Back to say, it's just like
Speaker 2: I'm going to buy tickets, go to a show and
Speaker 2: go home. Really fantastic. It's a shame he didn't stay
Speaker 2: with Late Night because he would have had a thirty
Speaker 2: year run at it. You know, boy, don't you wish
Speaker 2: you could put him on at twelve thirty tonight and
Speaker 2: he was on.
Speaker 1: He's fantastic. I would put him on any like. I
Speaker 1: listened to his podcast now and it's fun to the
Speaker 1: one thing that you mentioned there when you the idea
Speaker 1: of bringing him back to do some work with Ghosty.
Speaker 1: The thing that Craig brings to the table is something
Speaker 1: similar that Dave has, where his reactions are very good
Speaker 1: and very funny and very out out of left field.
Speaker 1: And when he has somebody like Josh Robert Thompson who
Speaker 1: did the voice for Jeffrey Pretyson, and then of course
Speaker 1: Morgan Freeman and all these other stuff. Josh is amazing.
Speaker 1: Josh has been on this show and we had a marathon.
Speaker 1: I think it was a two hour conversation with Josh
Speaker 1: two and a half hours on here. And the idea
Speaker 1: that there's this guy that is so good that he
Speaker 1: is actually the voice of Morgan Freeman when they want
Speaker 1: to edit and make the safe for TV movies and
Speaker 1: they edit his dialogue. He's the guy that does not
Speaker 1: just Morgan, but other people's voices, and yet he's crazy
Speaker 1: as as I'll get out. And then Craig can react
Speaker 1: to that. I love that Craig can react to that.
Speaker 1: Craig was so he would take the blue cart of
Speaker 1: what the segment producer had prepared for him for who
Speaker 1: his upcoming guest was, and he would tear it up
Speaker 1: beforehand because he wanted to have a spontaneous conversation with people.
Speaker 1: That is playing with a net, like being able to
Speaker 1: rely on your rap year like wit and and and react,
Speaker 1: and that be the source of the entertainment. Even the
Speaker 1: monologue was loose. The monologue was on bullet points and
Speaker 1: the idea that he would just come out and start
Speaker 1: talking and and not just be able to sustain an audience.
Speaker 1: But like you said, if he chose to, could have
Speaker 1: gone on a run that would put him up there,
Speaker 1: you know, with the greats. But his sensibility was I
Speaker 1: don't want to be part of this late night club.
Speaker 1: And and that was fun too. He's a little punk rock,
Speaker 1: He's a lot punk rock in fact, when you look
Speaker 1: at Craig's history. So yeah, to me, he's a guy
Speaker 1: that that certainly deserves to be on the last Sorry
Speaker 1: to cut you please.
Speaker 3: Is that is that.
Speaker 2: Part of the magic that I don't want to be
Speaker 2: part of this club. Now I can break that apart
Speaker 2: because Jimmy Kimmel wants to be David Letterman. David Letterman
Speaker 2: wanted to be Johnny Carson but wasn't allowed to be
Speaker 2: Johnny Carson twice and that sort of created David Letterman. Yep,
Speaker 2: Conan O'Brien, some random writer in the game who.
Speaker 3: Has the who are you giving the show too? What
Speaker 3: are you saying?
Speaker 1: So? Like?
Speaker 2: Is that part of the magic of not wanting to
Speaker 2: do the show? And conversely, is that part of the
Speaker 2: problem people have with Jimmy Fallon who I respect Jimmy's game.
Speaker 2: Jimmy understands what the Tonight show is and he runs
Speaker 2: he runs the playbook.
Speaker 3: Is it cool?
Speaker 2: It is not cool? Nope, But he runs the playbook
Speaker 2: the way he's asked to run it. He runs it
Speaker 2: very well, and he's going to wind up being the
Speaker 2: last eleven thirty show standing. It sounds like, but you know,
Speaker 2: is there something to be said to I don't actually
Speaker 2: want to do this?
Speaker 1: Well, this is okay, John, Jimmy Kimmel one more year.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sign on a one year contract. And I
Speaker 1: mean some people look at it and go, okay, Yeah.
Speaker 1: He doesn't want to get in the way of the
Speaker 1: Colbert because Colbert is gonna have his big send off, Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, we're about to enter an era here, you know,
Speaker 1: I remember the last six weeks of Dave. There's gonna
Speaker 1: be an era here where Colbert is ramping up to
Speaker 1: his leaving. I can see why Kimmel didn't want to
Speaker 1: be a part of that. But there's also a part
Speaker 1: of me that goes, it'd be cool to see Jimmy
Speaker 1: Kimmel do this for year to year, for the next
Speaker 1: five years. Because he's walking on the knife's edge. He's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: am I going to keep doing it? Am I not
Speaker 1: going to keep doing it? And to me that adds
Speaker 1: an element of freshness, just like the hesitation, I don't
Speaker 1: want to do this. I don't want to be that guy. Ferguson,
Speaker 1: you know, for a long time wasn't wearing a tie,
Speaker 1: and then he went and started wearing vests and he
Speaker 1: started doing different things to try and because he was
Speaker 1: uncomfortable with conformity and the idea of wanting to break
Speaker 1: out of that. Somehow, I think absolutely is part of
Speaker 1: the magic. A hesitation I'm doing this, but I don't
Speaker 1: really want to be here kind of an attitude. Oh
Speaker 1: we love that stuff. But again, it's the same example
Speaker 1: that Bill Carter used in his in his book talking
Speaker 1: about in Late Shift, talking about the difference between Dave
Speaker 1: and j you know, it's it's it's it's pop music
Speaker 1: versus Pink Floyd. You know, they're different atmospheres, they're different people,
Speaker 1: they're different everything. There's a big group of people that
Speaker 1: love Jimmy Fallon and it's it's a pop music group,
Speaker 1: whereas some people who are more like aficionados like us,
Speaker 1: are like, well, yeah, it's just that that was my
Speaker 1: thing with Dave and j And by the way, number
Speaker 1: seven on the list of the top ten greatest late
Speaker 1: night hosts in history, Number seven is Jay Leno.
Speaker 2: Jay Leno, that guy's the worst. Okay, we'll take the
Speaker 2: break here and we'll come back and talk about the
Speaker 2: most hated man in the world, Jay Leno. We continue
Speaker 2: with a look at Mike Chisholm from The Letterman Podcast's
Speaker 2: Top ten Greatest late night Hosts of All Time and
Speaker 2: apparently this next guy who.
Speaker 1: On the list of the top ten greatest late night
Speaker 1: hosts in history, number seven is Jay Leno. Oh the
Speaker 1: list the worst guy whoever? Let this guy, this guy,
Speaker 1: Jay Leno, He's the worst. The way he will have
Speaker 1: opinions about late night television as if he knows anything
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 2: Did you see during the summer they asked him about
Speaker 2: Colbert and he weighed in on it.
Speaker 3: What a hirk? What does he know?
Speaker 2: He's hosted what twenty two years of The Tonight Show,
Speaker 2: more episodes than anybody, including Johnny Carson. As if jay
Speaker 2: Leno has any expertise in Late Night The worst guy
Speaker 2: plus the way you know his poor wife has dementia
Speaker 2: and he takes care of her and cares in the bathroom.
Speaker 2: This guy's the worst. I can understand why people can't
Speaker 2: stand Jay Leno. He just seems like an awful guy,
Speaker 2: doesn't he?
Speaker 1: Oh, I was so hoping you would do that. Let's
Speaker 1: I want to talk about that a little bit, because
Speaker 1: this is this is the thing on your show whatever,
Speaker 1: somebody whatever jay Leto seems to pipe up about something,
Speaker 1: somebody seems to have a problem with it, and it
Speaker 1: makes the news and and is it just?
Speaker 3: Is it?
Speaker 1: You know, a generation of people who were in their
Speaker 1: formative years, they saw what happened during the Cone thing,
Speaker 1: and they've now just labeled him. Is that what's going
Speaker 1: wrong with Jay Leno?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's yes, it's we're backing Conan because it's the
Speaker 2: same sensibility. Leno was the establishment candidate. Yep, and Conan
Speaker 2: was the scrappy up and comer who's only been in
Speaker 2: Late night for fourteen years himself. You know this poor
Speaker 2: struggling artist. Did Conan get a short run to shows?
Speaker 2: Need time to find her legs?
Speaker 3: Of course?
Speaker 2: And of course yep was when they pulled the chair
Speaker 2: back out for Jay Leno and he says, no, I've
Speaker 2: brought this up on your show before. What happens then?
Speaker 2: Do they just keep Conan on ago w hoope this
Speaker 2: works out? Or do they pull out the Jimmy Fallon
Speaker 2: chair kind of quickly and now we all hate Jimmy
Speaker 2: Fallon because he stole Conan's job. I I don't know,
Speaker 2: putting aside that I might understand why you're on team
Speaker 2: Conan and and are mad at j Us Letteran. People
Speaker 2: got over it. I'm not mad at Jay. You know
Speaker 2: back in the original Late Night Wars that I want
Speaker 2: Dave to get the Tonight show. I did, absolutely, But
Speaker 2: I don't go around kicking a box.
Speaker 3: All day going. I can't believe Jay Leno got the
Speaker 3: Tonight show. What does he know about late night comedy?
Speaker 2: You know it, It's okay, It's okay, guys. But putting
Speaker 2: aside the the horrible sin of taking the Tonight's Show back.
Speaker 2: I just don't understand why people hate Jay Leno.
Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. I I mean this is this is
Speaker 1: one of the greatest joke writers in history. And I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, you look at you look at the hosts
Speaker 1: of the Tonight Show, how many of them were stand ups?
Speaker 1: You know, really, at the end of the day, Jay
Speaker 1: is really the only one like Fallon was as well.
Speaker 1: Fallon definitely definitely was a stand up, but he was
Speaker 1: more an actor and an impressionist and things like that.
Speaker 1: He had a different he had a very different stand
Speaker 1: up aact than than than Jay. That's for sure. Jay
Speaker 1: is a pure joke writer. He is a pure stand up.
Speaker 1: Not only when you talk about you know, he's an
Speaker 1: influential one. You got guys like David Letterman himself, Jerry
Speaker 1: Seinfeld who called Jay, you know, the greatest joke writer ever,
Speaker 1: and and and when you look at what he wanted
Speaker 1: to add to the Tonight Show, you know, he has
Speaker 1: this huge, huge like the fact that somebody followed Johnny
Speaker 1: and they stayed the job is nuts. And this goes
Speaker 1: back to what you were saying about giving time for
Speaker 1: shows to find their feet. You know, he for a
Speaker 1: year and a half letterman handed him his lunch, and Leno,
Speaker 1: to his credit, was a tactician and did everything he
Speaker 1: possibly could to rough the edges off the Tonight Show.
Speaker 1: So it was a perfect, you know, gleaming shine that
Speaker 1: you could see yourself in and every little detail counted
Speaker 1: and became a tactician. Whereas again you look at Dave. Yes,
Speaker 1: everybody was working their asses off, but they came across
Speaker 1: as a product that you know, isn't like that. It's
Speaker 1: not shiny, it is a little bit more clunky, and
Speaker 1: that's kind of their identity. Leno went the exactly other way.
Speaker 1: It said, no, no, no, no, we need a monologue where
Speaker 1: I have to do credit to what is considered one
Speaker 1: of the greatest pieces of television content of all time,
Speaker 1: which is Johnny Carson's monologue, and I have to do
Speaker 1: that justice. So I mean, of course it's gonna take
Speaker 1: him time to adjust and to grow. That's where I
Speaker 1: have the little problem with. You know, he talks about
Speaker 1: Conan and Conan's numbers with the Tonight Show, and you know,
Speaker 1: we're in a diminishing market and there's all these sorts
Speaker 1: of things and he says, Oh, the numbers are the numbers,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, that's what happens. Yeah, but you
Speaker 1: were given that time. And to answer your question what
Speaker 1: you said earlier. If Conan was given the time with
Speaker 1: the Tonight Show, hindsight is twenty twenty, look at what
Speaker 1: Conan has become since then. Now, he wouldn't have had
Speaker 1: the bump of the of the of the robbery, you know,
Speaker 1: and people getting you know, that culmination point of people
Speaker 1: getting excited or whatever and all coming together and creating
Speaker 1: Team Coco. That might not have happened if he was
Speaker 1: given that eighteen months to run the Tonight Show and
Speaker 1: do it the way he wanted to do it and
Speaker 1: give time people, give people time to get used to it.
Speaker 1: I I think Conan would have been just fine in
Speaker 1: the Tonight Show chair. But NBC had a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of things going on and Jay took the brunt of it.
Speaker 1: The fact that Jay had this contract, this pay and
Speaker 1: play contract. You know, why aren't people up in arms
Speaker 1: about NBC creating this impossible scenario for you know, for
Speaker 1: for themselves. So there's a lot more to it. But
Speaker 1: the idea that Jay Leno isn't revered today. Even if
Speaker 1: he's not your cup of tea, it is asinine to
Speaker 1: me twenty two years on the Tonight Show, Are you
Speaker 1: kidding Me? And and and yeah, so so Leno is
Speaker 1: to me? Leno is formidable. You heard it here first
Speaker 1: on the Letterman podcast. But he's formal at number seven
Speaker 1: on the top ten list all time.
Speaker 2: So two things about Jay, and I imagine your audience,
Speaker 2: of course, is familiar with Jay's appearances on Late Night
Speaker 2: with David Letterman. Yes, thank you for watching. Watch those
Speaker 2: you'll see a different Edgier. You know, maybe he's not
Speaker 2: a Dice Clay, but he's it's an edgier Jay Leno.
Speaker 2: I'm also brilliantly parried parodied by Chris Elliott, who came
Speaker 2: out just as Jay Leno. One Night had a classic schedule.
Speaker 2: I'd probably watched once a week, and you know you
Speaker 2: have that version of Jay Leno. I also think the
Speaker 2: NBC ten pm idea was the right idea, maybe a
Speaker 2: little too early. And as we've seen TV budgets evolve,
Speaker 2: if you told me I could have Stephen Colbert at
Speaker 2: ten pm, uh, you know, a paired down. Hey, we're
Speaker 2: gonna put two chairs on a stage and I need
Speaker 2: you to talk to somebody for an hour, four nights
Speaker 2: a week. That's probably pretty budget friendly. And I would
Speaker 2: welcome that on my network lineup if I could get it.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely. And if you look at guys like Charlie
Speaker 1: Rose and and and Steve alor Tom Snyder. Uh, you
Speaker 1: look at these long for there's always been a hunger
Speaker 1: for for for for the long form and uh and
Speaker 1: and this we're podcasting is right now you know the
Speaker 1: reason why.
Speaker 3: Sorry Snyder was upon podcast.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and now we're putting podcasts on Netflix and every
Speaker 2: everything's come all the way around again. You know, if
Speaker 2: I could get you Tom Snyder in his prime and go, hey,
Speaker 2: he's going to do it an hour and a half
Speaker 2: once a week deep dive podcast and we'll shoot it
Speaker 2: and throw it on Netflix.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, great, sign them up. Yep.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. By the way, Jay Leno also, I don't think
Speaker 1: he did the way Dave did. Jay Leno did evolve
Speaker 1: as a as a as a talk show host, you know,
Speaker 1: the stand up comedian. I mean, yes, he was phenomenal.
Speaker 1: That was his That was what brought him to the
Speaker 1: dance as a stand up and as a joke machine
Speaker 1: and whatnot. But he did get better at communicating with people,
Speaker 1: not even close to where Dave is, of course, But
Speaker 1: but but the thing that differentiates to me people ask
Speaker 1: me that sometimes about their their their interview skills as
Speaker 1: at their best. This is something Shecky told me from
Speaker 1: the very beginning in fact CHECKI even said this to
Speaker 1: me that the day that I got my picture, my
Speaker 1: letter and picture signed and whatnot, there was a there
Speaker 1: was a small window opportunity where I could have met him,
Speaker 1: And Shecky said this to me. He goes, if Dave's
Speaker 1: curious about you, it's gonna be great. And and Dave
Speaker 1: had this way when he had people across from him
Speaker 1: that he was having conversations with, a curiosity would come out.
Speaker 1: And I think there was an everyman curiosity that came
Speaker 1: out where when it was Jay, it felt manufactured. It
Speaker 1: felt like he was asking questions off of a card
Speaker 1: as opposed to a genuine curiosity connection that was created.
Speaker 1: So that's in my mind, that's something I've wanted to
Speaker 1: say on the show for a long time because people
Speaker 1: ask me about that all the time. I think that's
Speaker 1: a major major difference between the two. Did you ever
Speaker 1: encounter j back in the day.
Speaker 2: No, I've never met Jay. I would love to get
Speaker 2: him on the podcast. It's funny if you asked me, like,
Speaker 2: you know, who do like if Dave Chappelle were available,
Speaker 2: of course I'm gonna say yes to Dave Chappelle, you know,
Speaker 2: any of.
Speaker 3: The big comedians.
Speaker 2: But for the people who I really want to talk to,
Speaker 2: I think right now I would love to talk to
Speaker 2: Jay Leno and do a version of my bit and
Speaker 2: just break that whole thing down with him.
Speaker 1: Oh god, it would be so good. It would be
Speaker 1: so good because the guy does deserve credit, like like like,
Speaker 1: and it's it's his generosity as well. Is just it's crazy,
Speaker 1: his generosity, you know, he's He's accused sometimes of being
Speaker 1: self aggrandizing. I think sometimes when you do as many
Speaker 1: good things as as as as you do, and if
Speaker 1: you're not careful and not saying that there might not
Speaker 1: be some you know, some marketing involved or whatever to
Speaker 1: promote things that that could be there. But that being said,
Speaker 1: when you do so many good things, many times you
Speaker 1: might get tagged with that. But every single person that
Speaker 1: I've ever talked to who have ever said something about
Speaker 1: Jay Leno's generosity, and it's I don't know, more than
Speaker 1: more than ten. They talk about him being this kind,
Speaker 1: giving but very high level. You know, he plays at
Speaker 1: a high level when it comes to writing jokes and
Speaker 1: making jokes and things. But the man himself, you know,
Speaker 1: very very he's he's he's an amazing American. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm glad, I'm so, I'm glad you're poking
Speaker 1: fun at this and bringing it to people's attention. But yeah,
Speaker 1: people shitting on Jay Leno at this day and age,
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's a huge need to it.
Speaker 1: Making fun that's completely different making fun of him, But
Speaker 1: people who come across with anger that's not cool.
Speaker 2: Well sure, and as a comedian, he would appreciate you
Speaker 2: making fun of him, you know. And again, you know,
Speaker 2: for some reason I got on this raidar Hey, this
Speaker 2: guy is making fun of you, saying you're the worst
Speaker 2: person who ever lived, and then you actually listen to
Speaker 2: the bit I'm doing. Yeah, you know, I'm clearly not
Speaker 2: saying he's a horrible, horrible person. Now, the other white
Speaker 2: whale guest I would like to get is Robert Smigel,
Speaker 2: who I think it's quietly been the influence in comedy
Speaker 2: in the last thirty years. He's not really in front
Speaker 2: of the camera. But boy, you look at the stuff
Speaker 2: that guy's attached to, and there's a Hall of Fame career.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah, that guy might be you know, and it
Speaker 1: might be by design. Maybe he does like flying under
Speaker 1: the radar a little bit, you know, for being someone
Speaker 1: as big as he is. You know, the guy's a legend.
Speaker 1: The guy is an absolute you know. I was watching
Speaker 1: The Downy Dock and I mean, you've got some of
Speaker 1: these people who come along who are just they transcend,
Speaker 1: you know. They the people who create new things and
Speaker 1: the people who imitate those things that have just been
Speaker 1: created that people love, but they just do a little
Speaker 1: bit of a different thing, you know, to it. Smigle's
Speaker 1: a guy that actually kicked the ball down the field.
Speaker 1: I was watching Christmas Time for the Jews the Darlene
Speaker 1: Love So and I said, no Christmas Special, and I
Speaker 1: just like his cartoons, like like that is one of
Speaker 1: the funniest things I've ever seen. And my wife walked
Speaker 1: in the room while it was on, and she heard
Speaker 1: the she heard the hook, and she heard Darlene say
Speaker 1: Christmas Time for the Jews and she started. She just
Speaker 1: sat there and she started looking at it. And I
Speaker 1: don't know if Candy had seen it before or not,
Speaker 1: but she doesn't love comedy the way that I do.
Speaker 1: And she just looks at it and goes, what year
Speaker 1: was this maid? And I told her, geez, like, how
Speaker 1: do you come up with that? Like? How does Robert
Speaker 1: Smiel come up with some of the crazy things and
Speaker 1: the tonnage of it? Like there's just that's just the
Speaker 1: way that he thinks and it. Yeah, that's a great
Speaker 1: that's a great poll. I'm glad you brought that up.
Speaker 1: You ready for Are you ready for? Number? Okay? So
Speaker 1: are we done with? Oh? No? One of the thing
Speaker 1: with Leno Adam Sandler. One of the things that Adam
Speaker 1: Sandler did that I loved because it goes back to
Speaker 1: Adam Sandler. I watched Adam Sandler's last special, his most
Speaker 1: recent special. Okay now, in it, he does a song.
Speaker 1: Can you believe that he does a song? He actually
Speaker 1: does a song. Oh. The song is a tribute to
Speaker 1: comedy and the things that influenced his life and his
Speaker 1: you know, it's all it's all comedians and stuff. And
Speaker 1: as I was watching and I'm like, Oh, I forget
Speaker 1: where he talks about because I know Letterman's in there
Speaker 1: for him, because Letterman's a huge influence, and he's going
Speaker 1: through the song and he's going through these people, all
Speaker 1: of these things, and it's so clever the way that
Speaker 1: he puts those guys in it. He the line is
Speaker 1: Leno on Letterman. And there's a picture that shows up
Speaker 1: and it's exactly what you're referring to. It's Jay on
Speaker 1: panel with Dave on Late Night. And that's the way
Speaker 1: that Sandler tributes them that it's Leno on Letterman, and
Speaker 1: that's the that's the thing. It's not the twenty two
Speaker 1: years the guy who succeeded Johnny Carson, but he did that.
Speaker 1: He did that. And for those who want to say
Speaker 1: I like Dave over j that's fine, but don't take
Speaker 1: the respect away. The guy followed Carson and did it
Speaker 1: for decades, well done, Jay Leno.
Speaker 2: But it also has a panel guest uh yep, talk
Speaker 2: show hosts, radio hosts, Jerk's doing a podcast in their basement.
Speaker 2: Hate when you ask a question and somebody goes into
Speaker 2: their bit. Now, clearly you just teed me up to
Speaker 2: do the Letterman bit.
Speaker 3: So I'm guilty.
Speaker 2: The leto get I'm guilty, but we're having a real
Speaker 2: conversation here, right, I'm not just doing material. But Jay
Speaker 2: on let did material. You know, it would be like, hey, Jay,
Speaker 2: what's going on? Jave, let me tell you what's going on?
Speaker 2: And then wouldn't just go into the act. But somehow
Speaker 2: kept Letterman engaged. Dave didn't just check out and be like, Okay,
Speaker 2: he's doing his four minutes, what's my beef? And uh
Speaker 2: it was fantastic again to Chris Elliott version of it.
Speaker 3: I just pick nails the.
Speaker 1: Essence of it with Dave though it's the curveballs because yeah,
Speaker 1: he was staying curious and staying because he might throw
Speaker 1: a curveball at Git in the middle of it, and
Speaker 1: you didn't know how much of it. Like that's the thing, oh,
Speaker 1: I And the segment it's so crazy, John, like like
Speaker 1: like the segment producers are the most secretive of all
Speaker 1: the people I've talked to so far, Like some of
Speaker 1: them I've talked to in the background but won't even
Speaker 1: come on the show. And and but whatever I asked
Speaker 1: the questions, Okay, so like what lines did you give
Speaker 1: to you know this starlet who comes out and and
Speaker 1: and and Dave tees up a perfect question and she
Speaker 1: answers it and it gets a huge laugh. Well, guess
Speaker 1: what many times that starlet did not come up with
Speaker 1: that clever, clever line. It was a segment producer, you
Speaker 1: know before who did it. And I love talking about
Speaker 1: they don't. A lot of them are like magicians. They
Speaker 1: do not want to reveal. They don't want to reveal
Speaker 1: what lines they gave away or how they don't want
Speaker 1: to break down the mechanics of how things work. The
Speaker 1: Leno Letterman ones, to me, were astounding because you don't
Speaker 1: know where the material ends. And the banter, the real
Speaker 1: banter begins with those two. And there's only a few
Speaker 1: guests where you can say that for and Jay is
Speaker 1: probably the top of the heap. You know, you're reminded
Speaker 1: this is a total tangent, but you just when you
Speaker 1: talked about the magic behind a curtain. If you've ever
Speaker 1: seen Jackie Gleason on sixty minutes, I think it's with
Speaker 1: Morley Safer and he's talking about, oh you got to
Speaker 1: watch this, dude.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he starts talking about why.
Speaker 2: The Honeymooners is revered and Jackie talks about the characters
Speaker 2: and tells a story where they're in rehearsal and the
Speaker 2: sketch that they're gonna do just isn't flying, and Carney says,
Speaker 2: how about this, I'll walk in, I'll call you fat,
Speaker 2: you throw me out of the apartment, and they were like,
Speaker 2: let's just do that, and they sort of improved. Maybe
Speaker 2: not a full honeymoon Er his episode from the classic
Speaker 2: thirty nine, but one of the sketches and just like, okay,
Speaker 2: we all know what to do here, we all know
Speaker 2: who these characters are. Let's just do it. It's a wonderful
Speaker 2: episode of sixty minutes you'll find online.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's okay. And that's Dave in his testament
Speaker 1: to his longevity, because you know, after he stopped doing rehearsals,
Speaker 1: after he stopped, you know, you know, he starts slowing
Speaker 1: down a little bit, but the show must go on.
Speaker 1: His last years of Late Show, they were relying on
Speaker 1: the whimsy of what happens in the moment. They were
Speaker 1: relying on the on the inspiration. Now again, you know,
Speaker 1: we were talking about, you know, a guy with one
Speaker 1: of the greatest wits of all time. But it's like, no,
Speaker 1: let's rely on it as opposed to overproducing things, right,
Speaker 1: And they did. They let things get looser.
Speaker 2: Well, before you hit record, you started to tell me
Speaker 2: something and I said save it for the air. And
Speaker 2: that comes out of my radio training. Especially if you
Speaker 2: do a morning show. You don't want to do the
Speaker 2: show in the hall at four forty five am. So
Speaker 2: did you see the super Bowl?
Speaker 1: Up?
Speaker 2: We'll talk about it on the air like you You
Speaker 2: can't because the second time you do it is never
Speaker 2: as natural. I openly talk about on my podcast anytime
Speaker 2: there's a you know, top ten late night hosts.
Speaker 3: You didn't send me the list. I don't want to
Speaker 3: see the list.
Speaker 2: I want to react to it as we go along
Speaker 2: because I don't you know, I have a guess who
Speaker 2: you think number one is, but maybe you don't. And
Speaker 2: when you're like number four, David Letterman, I want to go, whoa, you.
Speaker 4: Haven't number four? Oh my god? All right, who's left
Speaker 4: on the list? Or right, it's gonna be Johnny and wow,
Speaker 4: you don't have quote part number two? Like I want
Speaker 4: to be able to do that. Where so if you
Speaker 4: send me the list, I look at it and go okay.
Speaker 4: When he talks about going in I'll say this.
Speaker 1: Yep, there you go, and and and that's the best.
Speaker 1: Like I I say that about with pre interviews, you know,
Speaker 1: with many the many of the guests who come on,
Speaker 1: I can just say, Okay, is there anything you want
Speaker 1: me to avoid? Is there anything you want me to
Speaker 1: make sure I hit? All right, let's go and uh.
Speaker 1: And it's a lot of fun doing that.
Speaker 3: Boy, we're just flying through this list. Huh.
Speaker 2: We got so chatty. I gotta cut this in two,
Speaker 2: so we'll come back tomorrow with the rest of the list.
Speaker 2: I'll see you then.