WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:03.799 I want to welcome everyone back to the Pecana Show 2 00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:07.080 after a little bit of a break. Thomas is back. 3 00:00:07.400 --> 00:00:10.800 Are you doing, Thomas, I'm very well. 4 00:00:10.839 --> 00:00:14.839 Thanks for giving me the opportunity to collaborate on some 5 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:20.320 stuff before the big Portland basket weaving event. And this 6 00:00:20.399 --> 00:00:23.120 is an important subject area. I mean, for just on 7 00:00:23.160 --> 00:00:28.440 its own terms, but it dovetails rather splendidly and kind 8 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:32.000 of like indexes with the long form stuff I'm working on, 9 00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:36.359 and it's especially timely with kind of the trajectory I've 10 00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:38.960 been trying to steer things, at least in our kind 11 00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:41.679 of intellectual circles, like not I don't like vanity or 12 00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:46.240 just because I've got a hobbyist interest in this stuff, 13 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:50.399 but it's it's fundamentally important and I'll get into that 14 00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:51.880 as we roll out this subject. 15 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:57.479 Yeah, are our buddy, uh mister Rimbo, who was on 16 00:00:57.560 --> 00:01:00.520 the episode where you were you guys were talking about 17 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:02.759 being on the ground of the d n C. He's 18 00:01:02.799 --> 00:01:05.760 the one who recommended this, so shout out to him 19 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:06.439 and everything. 20 00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:11.920 So he's an essential He's an essential part of homeland fiction, 21 00:01:12.079 --> 00:01:15.879 even though he's even though he's not truly local, and 22 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:18.560 he's like an essential part of like my entourage. Like 23 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:21.000 he's he's uh, he's going to be hitting Portland with me, 24 00:01:21.079 --> 00:01:21.799 which is awesome. 25 00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:25.680 Yeah, what when you said how much you guys hung 26 00:01:25.719 --> 00:01:27.840 out and everything, I figured he was local to and 27 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:29.480 then when he told me where he was from, I 28 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:30.599 was like, holy shit. 29 00:01:31.799 --> 00:01:35.280 No, he's a good dude, and he he's builting fairm 30 00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:38.079 in of vacation time, so he traveled a fair amount 31 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:41.439 and I'm lucky he's he likes Chicago and like a 32 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:45.040 lot of like Wallbanger and Hunger that Die Merchant. They 33 00:01:45.079 --> 00:01:47.319 were in town last week and we had a great time. 34 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:50.000 But you know, they hadn't been to Shytown before. And 35 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:52.599 I think people think it's either really grimy because of 36 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:54.879 what they see on the news and all that kind 37 00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:57.359 of cap about how awful it is here, or they 38 00:01:57.359 --> 00:01:59.799 think it's just kind of like other things, just kind 39 00:01:59.799 --> 00:02:02.280 of like New York City was smaller, Like they they 40 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:06.200 really impressed it how cool it is, and so Rimbau. I, Yeah, 41 00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:07.719 we we have a lot of fun here man, and 42 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:10.919 he's he's a really good dude. I owe him a lot, 43 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:13.639 and I mean I will have fells a lot, but 44 00:02:13.719 --> 00:02:18.159 he he especially he's he sends a huge amount. He's 45 00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:20.840 like a research machine. And I mean, i'd like to 46 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:23.879 think guy him too, But I'm not as young as 47 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:26.000 I once was, and I'm surely not as young as 48 00:02:26.039 --> 00:02:29.400 he is. And he he's always finding like really really 49 00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:34.319 great sources that I've never I've never come across. Cool. 50 00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:38.680 Well, the wife and I talked about this this past 51 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:41.159 year and it didn't happen. But we're gonna have to 52 00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:42.800 drive up and hang out with you like when the 53 00:02:42.919 --> 00:02:45.400 when the weather breaks, once winter breaks, come up for 54 00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:46.759 like the spring or something like that. 55 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:49.280 Yeah, that'd be great, man, You'll have a lot of fun. 56 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:54.319 And so well, uh, missus Q. There's a there's a 57 00:02:54.360 --> 00:02:56.560 lot of there's a lot of stuff I can show you, 58 00:02:56.599 --> 00:02:57.680 guys that you'll really dig. 59 00:02:57.680 --> 00:02:57.840 Man. 60 00:02:57.879 --> 00:02:59.879 Everybody has fun when they come here, and i'd like 61 00:02:59.879 --> 00:03:02.240 to think, I'd like to think I'm I'm a pretty 62 00:03:02.280 --> 00:03:03.240 decent tour guide. 63 00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:09.360 Mean, all right, let's get into it. Uh, mister Eric Hobsbaum. 64 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:11.280 A lot of people probably have never heard of him, 65 00:03:11.479 --> 00:03:15.400 but you mentioned him all the time, usually in passing, 66 00:03:17.599 --> 00:03:21.719 usually just quoting him something like that. So let's do 67 00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:22.360 the deep dive. 68 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:34.439 Well, I'm he was a true left Heglien. People invoked 69 00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:39.199 that signifier or designation rather to talk about any any 70 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:44.639 Marxist aconemic because in the public mind and kind of 71 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:49.840 in academic culture, you know, any any Marxist historian or 72 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:52.879 a historical writer is you know, exiomatically a left hag Alien. 73 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:58.919 I I think exception to that descriptor for a few reasons. 74 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:03.560 I mean, you can't, like, in its own terms, dialectical materialism, 75 00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:07.599 it can't be Hegelian because it removes you know, providential 76 00:04:09.560 --> 00:04:19.839 causation from it's uh from from from its historicism. And 77 00:04:21.319 --> 00:04:26.920 you know, there's a arguably it abolishes metaphysics, you know 78 00:04:26.920 --> 00:04:29.399 what I mean obviously, So I mean that's it's it's 79 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:32.480 something of as our Marxist friends themselves would say, a 80 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:38.959 fatal contradiction. But HOBSBAUGHM. Hobsbam really was like a left 81 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:41.800 he Gaelian in the purest sense. And I think his 82 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:44.879 take on things, I mean, obviously we don't know, and 83 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:51.879 I've read Imperialism by Lenin many times, but I mean 84 00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:56.600 Lenin wasn't Lenin was kind of the consummate political soldier, 85 00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:58.279 you know, It's not like he was something prolific. 86 00:04:58.360 --> 00:04:58.680 I mean it was. 87 00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:00.639 He was prolific for the roly and in terms of 88 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:03.600 his academic output. But you know, it's not like he was. 89 00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:07.600 It's not like he was like angles or something and 90 00:05:07.959 --> 00:05:13.000 putting out you know, endless, endless manuscripts or something. But 91 00:05:13.079 --> 00:05:15.720 I see hobbs one On probably was like the most 92 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:18.920 like Lenin himself, you know, in terms of his kind 93 00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:24.800 of political ontology as well as in terms of how 94 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:30.720 he characterized historical processes and you know how outcomes they're 95 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:35.120 in should be judged, you know, whether they are whether 96 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:39.800 whether they advance the revolutionary imperative and in a progressive sense, 97 00:05:40.360 --> 00:05:44.639 or whether they are self defeating, you know. And so 98 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:46.839 Hobsbam he was I think of him too, is he 99 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:48.920 was really much kind of like a counterweight to arn 100 00:05:48.959 --> 00:05:51.680 soin NOLDI they had a lot of similarities, like their 101 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:56.199 backgrounds very different. You know, Hobsbaum was a Polish Jew 102 00:05:56.240 --> 00:06:03.720 whose father was an English subject. But there's there's commonalities 103 00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:07.879 to their I mean they're very they're very much opposites 104 00:06:08.079 --> 00:06:13.399 or were opposites, but there's seat of a common frame 105 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:16.439 of reference in terms of what they would have viewed 106 00:06:16.439 --> 00:06:20.639 as authoritative and you know what they considered to be 107 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:26.959 sort of the essential canon of political philosophy and Hasbom. Also, 108 00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:30.560 he got this reputation people haven't really read him, so 109 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:33.639 they veeve him as like this unreconstructed quote unquote Stalinist. 110 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:37.680 That's not really true. But he did refuse. He had 111 00:06:37.720 --> 00:06:42.399 contempt for the New Left, and he refused to abandon 112 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:46.240 allegiance to the Soviet Union in fifty six and in 113 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:49.319 sixty eight. You know, he was he was an orthodox 114 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:54.399 in Culdmart terms in orthodox Marxist Leninists, which meant he 115 00:06:54.439 --> 00:06:57.680 was in the Soviet camp and in the sun of 116 00:06:57.720 --> 00:07:02.399 Soviet split. He had great disdain for China for various reasons. 117 00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:06.120 So these like schismatic tendencies. The fact he opposed all 118 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:10.600 these schismatic tendencies, and the fact he was somewhat critical 119 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:14.279 a cruse chief like that didn't make him some hardline Stalinists, 120 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:16.759 you know, Like he wasn't the kind of guy who 121 00:07:16.759 --> 00:07:20.759 would say sit there and say like Eric Honnecker was 122 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:24.240 like a great general secretary or that like the DDR 123 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:26.600 had like a perfect system, and there were guys who 124 00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:32.199 thought that way, you know. But so the key to 125 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:35.480 the key to this does kind of require like a 126 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:41.759 deep dive and I find myself. You know what, So 127 00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:44.040 people might ask themselves, you know, what does this have 128 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:46.120 to do with the present? I mean a couple of things. 129 00:07:46.839 --> 00:07:48.720 You know, if you want to understand the twentieth century, 130 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:52.680 you've got to understand marcsist Leninism. You understand Marsus Leninism. 131 00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:55.759 That you got to understand the body of theory and 132 00:07:55.959 --> 00:08:00.360 its theory of history that you know, kind of frame 133 00:08:00.439 --> 00:08:05.759 the conceptual horizon that you know, nourish the it's it's 134 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:09.279 revolutionary imperatives, you know. And if if you understand the 135 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:11.680 twenty first century, you got to understand the twentieth century 136 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:18.759 and that entire dialectical process bus today, this kind of thought, 137 00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:22.519 this kind of true left to Gaian thoughts made a comeback. 138 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:24.759 Like guys think that guy Jackson Hinkel and a lot 139 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:28.040 of people need he's a crank. He's really not, you know, 140 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:31.040 and like he's I think he's partly funded by the 141 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:36.799 same kinds of elements that fund like Zuganov's, like reconstituted 142 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:41.120 Communist Party. I'm not saying that, sinister, you know, I 143 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:45.399 shouted out about this on social media, but you know, 144 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:46.799 these guys aren't woke. 145 00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:47.919 You know. 146 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:52.120 That's why when Hank goldenfines himself as like a social conservative, 147 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:57.799 that's not inconsistent, you know. And that's one of the 148 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:01.840 reasons when people drop this bullshit calling everything they don't 149 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:05.320 like Marxist. It's like that's it's not like Kamala Harris 150 00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:08.679 isn't a Marxist, you know, Obama is not a Marxist 151 00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:15.399 like American uh, American style social engineering and all the 152 00:09:15.480 --> 00:09:19.080 kind of bizarre stuff that goes into that isn't isn't Marxism, 153 00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:22.960 you know. So I think I think this stuff is 154 00:09:22.960 --> 00:09:26.759 more timely than a lot of people willing to acknowledge, 155 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:30.399 you know, even if even if political theory is not 156 00:09:30.519 --> 00:09:33.399 really you know, in your proverbial wheelhouse or something. But 157 00:09:36.440 --> 00:09:39.840 I'm gonna jump around a bit if it's too scatter 158 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:43.440 shot or if or or if something is not clear, 159 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:45.279 like please stop me and I'll. 160 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:52.440 I'll kind of adjust. Uh, no problem, go ahead, no problem, 161 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:54.879 I'll uh, I'll interrupt if I have something. 162 00:09:55.080 --> 00:10:02.360 Oh yeah, yeah, no for sure. In nineteen ninety four, Hobsbam. 163 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:06.080 Hobsbam had a certain degree of prominence, especially in the UK, 164 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:10.159 you know, throughout his kind of academic career, even though 165 00:10:10.159 --> 00:10:13.080 he didn't really involve himself in public policy debates, with 166 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:16.960 the exception of the Thatcher era, and we'll get into 167 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:20.399 that in a minute. But in nineteen ninety four, when 168 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:23.440 a lot of kind of retrospective stuff on the Cold 169 00:10:23.480 --> 00:10:26.799 War was popping up in media, you know, that's when 170 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:29.480 like Nixon was I mean, Nixon died I think in 171 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:33.000 ninety four, like ninety four, ninety five, but you know, 172 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:35.720 Nixon have been making the rounds in nineteen ninety nineteen 173 00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:40.240 ninety two. There there was a lot of a lot 174 00:10:40.240 --> 00:10:43.919 of a lot of colder academics who were being asked, 175 00:10:44.080 --> 00:10:46.960 you know, for their to render kind of their their 176 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:51.399 their diagnosis of the events the preceding half decade and stuff. 177 00:10:52.919 --> 00:11:01.559 Hosbam uh, He's being interviewed by Michael Ignattu, you know, 178 00:11:01.879 --> 00:11:05.440 an Ignoctave was very much try to put him in 179 00:11:05.480 --> 00:11:14.799 the hot seat and asking him loaded questions. And Hosmum 180 00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:19.639 famously said that had the Soviet Union succeeded in realizing 181 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:24.720 a communist society and had it been able to fulfill 182 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:32.480 its ambition of you know, facilitating a world historical revolutionary 183 00:11:32.519 --> 00:11:38.519 imperative hobsam said that the deaths of twenty million people 184 00:11:38.840 --> 00:11:42.440 or however many perished in Stalin's death camps, would have 185 00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:45.960 been worth it, so ignoctave, you know, famously like being 186 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:51.639 clutching at his pearls verbially speaking, And Hobswom's rebuttal was, 187 00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:56.759 you know, Marx himself said that no rate movement has 188 00:11:56.759 --> 00:12:00.399 been born without, you know, the shedding of blood. And 189 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:02.399 you know, Haze fought it up by saying, you know, 190 00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:06.679 self sacrifice isn't the only kind of sacrifice that was 191 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:09.200 in the contemplation of Marx or Lenin or anybody else, 192 00:12:10.360 --> 00:12:14.240 you know, but this wasn't the standard maya culpa or whatever. 193 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:19.159 Like a lot of like a lot of kind of 194 00:12:19.159 --> 00:12:21.080 like normany cohns think, as well as a lot of 195 00:12:21.159 --> 00:12:27.159 kind of new left types. This this wasn't just Hobbswaen 196 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:30.039 being deliberately callous or something. But you got to understand 197 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:35.600 the vantage point from where he's speaking, Like historical processes aren't. 198 00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:42.360 They're not the result of conspiratorial designs by like criminal actors, 199 00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:46.200 you know, they're not. Even even if you're a true vanguardist, 200 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:49.519 even if you kind of accept Rousseau's if you with 201 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:53.799 a general Will and hobswell very much. Did you know, 202 00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:58.799 of course the General Will doesn't speaks, he's not. Rousseau 203 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:01.279 wasn't referring to like the body politic as a whole, 204 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:05.679 like it could be just like narrow discrete elements within 205 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:11.720 the political organism who's uh, whose commitments and whose conceptual 206 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:15.759 horizon like indexes very strongly, you know, with a revolutionary 207 00:13:15.879 --> 00:13:21.559 leadership element, you know, But uh, that does. But these 208 00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:25.440 people are still what they're doing is they're they're engaging 209 00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:31.480 very intimately in psychological and political terms, with historical processes. 210 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:35.840 They're not creating these conditions. So if you ask, you know, 211 00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:38.080 so so trying to trying to put Nolty on the 212 00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:40.440 hot seat like this, we're trying to put on the 213 00:13:40.440 --> 00:13:43.200 hot seat like this. It's similar to what haramaz and 214 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:46.399 his his acolytes and allies we'll try to do to Nolty, 215 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:49.799 you know, like, oh, you're you're justifying these monstrous crimes. 216 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:53.840 You know, and always said, no, nobody's justifying anything. But 217 00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:56.600 if you're talking about the historical process and you're talking 218 00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:02.080 about warfare at massive scale, at literally planitary scale, where 219 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:05.480 we're not talking about decisions made by discrete individual actors. 220 00:14:05.480 --> 00:14:08.440 We're not talking about people committing crimes, you know, We're 221 00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:13.279 we're talking about events that are truly providential or you know, 222 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:17.600 if you're an atheist like Cosbomb, truly providential, okay. And 223 00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:21.120 even if you assign a purely material the conslation of 224 00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:25.559 purely material causes, you know, to these things. It's a 225 00:14:25.559 --> 00:14:31.039 constellation of variables, so myriad, so complex, at such scale, 226 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:36.960 nobody can be said to be like responsible as a 227 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:42.759 as a as a causative agent in approximate terms. So 228 00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:45.799 who was who was? Who was Eric Hosbom? I thought 229 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:49.519 it was actually born in Egypt? You know. His father 230 00:14:49.639 --> 00:14:56.919 was Leopold Percy Hobsbamb. It's believed that the original surname 231 00:14:57.279 --> 00:15:02.720 was a ups Bomb, but uh, a combination of deliberate 232 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:08.159 anglicization of the surname and clerical error led to it 233 00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:16.799 becoming Hobsbamb. His father had been some kind of merchant 234 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:19.240 who was originally from the East End of London, but 235 00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:24.519 he but he was a Polish jew His mother, uh 236 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:31.120 was a Jewish woman named Nellie Gruen who had come 237 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:34.799 from a middle class family. And then then you know, 238 00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:36.679 and then had what was then you know, the Hapster 239 00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:43.879 Empire in Austria. Hodamerlaye that like he was seb consciously 240 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:46.639 Jewish because his parents conveyed to him, you know, the 241 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:50.360 like like to take his though seriously. But he said 242 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:52.919 he was raised in basically like an atheist household. He's like, 243 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:55.600 it was a very Jewish household, but it wasn't religious, 244 00:15:56.080 --> 00:15:59.960 you know, and that that wasn't really strange for a 245 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:02.600 howdam was born in nineteen seventeen. I mean, that was 246 00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:05.000 that's very much a twentieth century thing. You know. I 247 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:07.399 everatize the people again and again, like nobody thinks this 248 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:12.559 way anymore, Like the remaining the remaining self declared atheists 249 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:16.320 who have any kind of public profile, like nobody nobody 250 00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:19.639 takes them seriously anymore, you know. And I mean really 251 00:16:19.639 --> 00:16:23.879 that kind of thing was dead by you know, by 252 00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:27.120 the end of the nineteen nineties, but there was some 253 00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:33.480 there's some peculiar holdouts, and it had something of it 254 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:38.000 had something of a media profile, particularly in new media, 255 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:41.879 right before it's kind of final death as a culturally 256 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:47.799 relevant quantity. But you know, so hot One had a 257 00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:51.519 fairly cause of pol upbring. You know, he wasn't he 258 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:54.919 wasn't some ghetto wise Jew who was sitting around reading 259 00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:57.360 Marx and Engels and kind of like nursing these grudges 260 00:16:57.399 --> 00:16:59.279 and stuff. I mean, like, don't get me wrong, I'm 261 00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:03.840 sure that his ethnos and the you know they kind 262 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:09.880 of conceptual biases and intrinsic to that sort of household 263 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:14.400 like absolutely informed his perspective. But you know, he wasn't. 264 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:18.119 He wasn't some guy from you know, the Pale Settlement 265 00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:21.359 or something, or from or from some impoverished the you 266 00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:26.000 know tenement in Poland. And I've heard people speculate that 267 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:27.599 the effect who want to throw shade out of him 268 00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:32.359 like that, that's just like not accurate. But he, uh, 269 00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:38.319 he was a teenage he ultimately his father died when 270 00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:40.240 he was when he was quite young. I think when 271 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:46.279 he was twelve or thirteen years old, he was sent 272 00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:49.960 to Uh he was sent to live with his aunt. 273 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:52.440 A couple of years later and his sister, and when 274 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:58.119 his mother died as well, his maternal aunt and uh, 275 00:17:58.279 --> 00:18:01.680 they settled in Berlin. And then when ah, when the 276 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:06.599 National Socialist revolution kicked off or whatever, remember when the 277 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:12.119 National Socialists got their uh parliamentary plurality, which may you know, 278 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:15.759 became a problematic majority after the KPD was was outlawed 279 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:19.920 owing to the attack on the Reichs the Reichstag fire. 280 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:24.680 You know, they they they had an absolute majority. But 281 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:28.480 Hobswam returned to the United Kingdom. When I say returned, 282 00:18:28.599 --> 00:18:32.640 his father was an English subject, so young Hoswallm wasn't 283 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:35.799 considered like he was considered. He was also considered to 284 00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:39.240 be a subject of the Empire, you know, and not 285 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:46.799 subject to laws regarding alienage and things like that. He 286 00:18:46.839 --> 00:18:52.559 attended King's College at Cambridge. You know, he became UH. 287 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:55.200 He joined the Communist Party of Great Britain basically as 288 00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:56.640 like as soon as he was of age. You know, 289 00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:58.559 I think when he was nineteen years old. I think 290 00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:02.920 you had to be eighteen to join in those days, 291 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:07.720 but you know, you got. He took his doctorate from 292 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:13.160 a from Cambridge, and I believe his thesis, his PhD 293 00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:15.920 thesis is on the history of the Fabian society and 294 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:22.960 Fabian socialism, you know, and Hobsbaum's commitments as well as 295 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:33.480 his his particular kind of brand of UH of Marxist thoughts. 296 00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:37.279 It was very much, it was ver much derivative of 297 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:41.160 that of the of the English Communist Party, the Communist 298 00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:44.519 Party in Great Britain. Okay, Like when I say derivative, 299 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:47.000 I don't mean that in punitive terms. But what I 300 00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:50.119 mean is hobs Bom quite literally identified himself as a 301 00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:54.200 quote Red Tory, you know. And we'll get into what 302 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:58.720 they had means the implications that add. But guys like 303 00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:01.519 Kim Philby and the Cambridge they they were cut from 304 00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:06.200 the same kind of cloth, you know, the the commun 305 00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:10.279 is probably a Great Britain. They were very much a 306 00:20:10.279 --> 00:20:12.799 fifth column during the Cold War in a way that 307 00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:17.960 other similar elements weren't on the continent because they were 308 00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:20.960 they they they were Orthodox Marcus alone in this. They 309 00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:25.400 unconditionally supported the Soviet Union, you know, they so they 310 00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:27.519 they were very much in the Cold War. You know, 311 00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:30.240 there's more of a bunch of Trotskyists, you know, trying 312 00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:36.920 to trying to cultivate electoral respectability. No were they uh 313 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:40.200 you know, no were they were they like active as liberals, 314 00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:44.960 the kinds who find themselves in and n geosynecures who 315 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:47.920 were kind of Communists in name only, like they're they're 316 00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:53.160 the genuine article. They're pro Soviet. They were loyal to 317 00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:55.839 Stalin subsequently, they were loyal to his memory. But they 318 00:20:55.839 --> 00:21:00.839 were not uncritical, you know. They they they very much 319 00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:05.160 viewed the situation as you know, for all of its 320 00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:12.960 trailties and for all of it's less than ideal characteristics 321 00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:15.880 and situatedness. You know, the Soviet Union is what we 322 00:21:16.039 --> 00:21:18.559 have in this world, and this world is all there is, 323 00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:27.000 you know, So it's suicidally short sighted, you know, and 324 00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:36.119 and in political terms, to divorce oneself from the ambitions 325 00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:44.160 and the destinies of of the Soviet system. But and interestingly, 326 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:54.200 Hobsbaum he served as a comet engineer during World War Two, 327 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:58.640 and he caught some flak at the time and in 328 00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:04.240 decades subsequent because when the Molotov Ribbon Trot Pact was signed, 329 00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:14.319 Hobsbaum and and his ideological fellows and comrades, they they'd 330 00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:16.920 shout down people who are critical of the Third Reich 331 00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:22.640 because he said, you know, alliance of convenience this may be, 332 00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:28.079 or you know, whatever however contrived this non aggression pact 333 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:33.000 may be. You know, this is uh, this is the 334 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:36.599 way things must be, you know, in order for the 335 00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:43.599 revolution to be consolidated in situ. So anybody opposing the 336 00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:48.039 Reich or calling for its destruction or calling for Moscow 337 00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:52.240 to preemptively assault it, which Moscow is absolutely planning on doing. 338 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:56.559 But people didn't know this outside of you know, Cadres 339 00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:03.599 approximate to the reds are Stalin, you know. But he 340 00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:07.559 considered this to be like a kind of revolutionary tendency, 341 00:23:08.359 --> 00:23:15.880 which was the orthodox perspective, the rotherdox Marc's perspective. But 342 00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:21.039 other than that, Hosbaum was very much like a doctrinal 343 00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:27.000 anti fascist, like not not in Nuremberg terms. But and 344 00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:30.359 we'll get into this probably in the second episode. Hobsmam's 345 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:35.799 take on fascism and national socialism is interesting. It's not 346 00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:39.200 it's by no means, you know, dismissed, totally dismissive and 347 00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:45.440 some punitive capacity. He says that the strength of fascism 348 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:51.119 was that it mastered technics and technology. It uh, it 349 00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:54.480 was able to imbue people with like a fervent kind 350 00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:59.200 of energy to realize its objectives. But he considered it 351 00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:04.640 to be quote phyllis impoverished, and he didn't really seem 352 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:09.599 to understand, uh, he didn't really understand the the kind 353 00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:17.319 of trajectory of uh, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Heidegger, you know, to 354 00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:22.200 national socialism. Now that some people who have like a 355 00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:26.960 punitive like thunderbag like take on Germany and the Germanis 356 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:29.680 and people in the German state. That's not That's not 357 00:24:29.720 --> 00:24:32.319 what Osbon was. That's not what I'm saying, and that's 358 00:24:32.359 --> 00:24:40.559 not you know. And Hosbom wasn't prone to that kind 359 00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:45.640 of moultive thought either, But like a lot of doctair 360 00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:48.000 and Marxists, he couldn't really see the forest of the trees. 361 00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:52.759 I don't think he understood the enduring power of continental 362 00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:57.079 philosophy outside of Marxist a jacent thinkers, you know, and 363 00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:03.039 informing what what? What was going on in Italy, what 364 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:05.920 was going on in Germany, you know, in the inner Warriors. 365 00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:08.000 I don't think he understood this. I think it was 366 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:13.480 one of his blind spots, owing to adherence to you know, 367 00:25:13.640 --> 00:25:19.119 uh An ideology and Marxism that that that that quite 368 00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:25.079 literally inundates people with like a missionary zeal that sometimes 369 00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:34.000 uh these were kind of tunnel vision. But you know 370 00:25:34.279 --> 00:25:39.920 at uh and again, like I said, I believe like 371 00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:45.519 the Red Tory uh Moniker, you know, they became kind 372 00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:49.640 of bandied about in the UK about even a lot 373 00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:52.000 of these like labor types. You know, back of the 374 00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:54.720 Labor Party was a real party. You know, there were 375 00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:57.839 there were these guys who were basically like we consider 376 00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:01.480 them in America to be like you know, we get 377 00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:06.559 sided to be like like like right wing type type 378 00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:12.720 of figures. But for the fact that you know, they uh, 379 00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:16.920 they were very much uh socialists in there in their orientation. 380 00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:20.480 You know, they believe in state socialism both as like 381 00:26:20.519 --> 00:26:23.359 an ethical postulate as well as a a kind of 382 00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:27.960 inevitability if if if the modern state was to survive, 383 00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:32.240 you know, with any kind of with any kind of legitimacy. 384 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:38.440 So yeah, how long is you're going to like Tory communists? 385 00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:44.240 Uh not a red Tory, but uh that uh And 386 00:26:44.359 --> 00:26:49.119 again that seems paradoxical to people, but again it's I 387 00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:52.759 I refer to you know, Zugonov's Communist Party, you know, 388 00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:57.160 to Jackson Hinkle. But even you know, in historical capacities, 389 00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:01.599 this this resonated with people who had a developed understanding 390 00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:06.720 of political theory, the Marxism of the Frankfurt School, people 391 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:09.480 like Oslohmand contempt for that. You know, they were like, 392 00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:15.480 this is degenerate garbage. This is this is uh, this 393 00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:18.880 is therapy for people who uh want to strike some 394 00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:24.599 kind of protest pose, you know, but are basically imbibing uh, 395 00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:29.480 you know, the kind of alienation uh that's deliberately engineered 396 00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:33.640 by by capitalist societies and saying like, oh, but this 397 00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:37.119 can be mitigated if you know, we have unrestricted access 398 00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:42.000 to the sexual hedonism, or if we can you know, partake 399 00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:46.119 of these uh material rewards, or you know, if we 400 00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:50.079 can if the state becomes a kind of if the 401 00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:53.039 state becomes kind of kind of ersos like aristote like 402 00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:57.920 therapeutic mechanism or or or a kind of rabbinic panel 403 00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:02.119 or or or like a like a or like an 404 00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:06.759 Aristot's like church, whereby like the declaratory judgments, that's not 405 00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:11.599 how like validate these these like contrived like postmodern identities, 406 00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:17.359 you know. And I mean that's that that's anybody who's 407 00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:21.880 the true communist partisan. What you know is it was 408 00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:24.640 disgusted by this, you know. I mean, I'm not I'm 409 00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:28.119 not saying Marxism is good. I'm not saying it's like 410 00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:31.839 good qualities, because it doesn't. But they were and they 411 00:28:31.880 --> 00:28:36.799 are serious guys. And if you understand and we'll get 412 00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:40.039 into this in a minute if you understand that kind 413 00:28:40.039 --> 00:28:43.160 of like marcist Lenin is like view of the historical process, 414 00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:49.480 you know, basically basically they view like a lot of 415 00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:53.680 liberalizing tendencies to have resulted in a kind of reactionary 416 00:28:53.720 --> 00:28:56.640 ethos among people and to then their estimates that's where 417 00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:00.759 nationalism comes from. Like nationalism, isn't this really organic thing? 418 00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:03.799 And I'm not talking about nationalism meaning like caring about 419 00:29:03.799 --> 00:29:07.160 your race or your ethnos. I mean like nationalism in 420 00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:10.240 the form of, yeah, this is the country of Poland. 421 00:29:10.599 --> 00:29:13.559 So like you know, according to this raitrary criteria, like 422 00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:17.079 whoever speaks Polish is like part of the body politic 423 00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:23.359 and anybody outside of that, you know, is not. And uh, 424 00:29:24.039 --> 00:29:29.359 you know, despite the fact that you know the existence 425 00:29:29.400 --> 00:29:33.880 of this government is deleterious to you know, the kind 426 00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:38.960 of organic uh, the variables that constantly like an organic 427 00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:42.480 communitarian life. You know, if we like fly the flag 428 00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:45.480 and you know, make make this language the state language. 429 00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:49.319 You know, we're we're somehow, you know, guarding tradition or 430 00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:52.880 something like. That's what they're talking about. And in their view, 431 00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:57.480 it's an effort by people whose lies are totally disrupted 432 00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:02.480 by future shock based we you know, and by the 433 00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:06.960 advanced and a productive processes such that you know, labor 434 00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:11.839 is no longer a complete process that people partake of 435 00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:16.200 in order to see through you know, the creative development 436 00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:19.240 of of a of an object or a thing, or 437 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:25.319 a necessary activity from start to finish, you know, and 438 00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:32.240 it just becomes an artifact of a mechanization, you know, 439 00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:36.319 the discrete aspects of which you know, humans are still 440 00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:40.599 required or needed to perform. But I mean, you're performing 441 00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:47.960 these activities in endless repetition without any meaningful experience of 442 00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:52.880 the totality of its fruitfulness. You know, in the company 443 00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:59.240 of total strangers, you know, who's only who's only The 444 00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:01.839 only affinity between you and them is it's kind of 445 00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:06.319 accident of locale or whatever. You know that that's what 446 00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:11.039 they're talking about. But you know, and so people like Cosbon, 447 00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:17.279 even if they didn't do things like religious observances as 448 00:31:17.319 --> 00:31:21.799 particularly positive or laudable, you know, they viewed it as 449 00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:26.559 you know, an anthropological feature of the historical process, you know, 450 00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:29.839 whose time arrives and then passes. But they but they 451 00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:34.279 did view you know, communitarian bonds of whatever they may 452 00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:36.640 be you know, whether they're like you know, promised on 453 00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:43.160 culture or sectarian affinity or what have you. You know, 454 00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:45.640 like in the historical moment in which those things are relevant, 455 00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:49.599 they consider those things valuable, you know, because at the 456 00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:51.400 end of the day, to a Marcus Lenin and it's 457 00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:55.640 like the individual doesn't matter, you know, So whatever facilitates, 458 00:31:55.720 --> 00:32:01.440 like the dignity of you know, the laboring class or classes, 459 00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:06.160 you know, is basically like a social good. Okay, so 460 00:32:06.359 --> 00:32:09.880 somebody like Cosbomavie, you know, seeing a bunch of people 461 00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:13.839 saying like, uh, you know, marriage or like pair bonding 462 00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:17.200 isn't important. All that matters is like sterile sex and 463 00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:20.799 you know the catharsis you get from from engaging that 464 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:24.079 kind of stuff, or you know, all that matters is 465 00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:27.559 you know, people being liberated from obligations to others or 466 00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:31.720 obligations to history. You know, you know, the highest good 467 00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:36.400 is being free, like you know, spill out wealth on 468 00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:41.400 yourself and and cultivate these these kinds of distractions that 469 00:32:41.400 --> 00:32:46.079 that that facilitate ledgend gratification like he had contempt for that. 470 00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:51.000 And basically any orthodox Marxist does, you know, they're like again, 471 00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:56.759 they're not woke at all if you want to race 472 00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:01.480 and if you want race too, like it's not I'm 473 00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:04.240 just pointing again again too like Marxists don't think race 474 00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:08.480 is important, but they're not anti racist, Like there's no 475 00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:11.240 reason they don't think there's anything wrong with a bunch 476 00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:14.440 of immigrants like swamped like a formerly Western country, but 477 00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:17.440 they don't think that should be a priority either, you know. 478 00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:21.079 And this idea that this idea that they're you know, 479 00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:26.559 this idea that racial identity needs to be like socially 480 00:33:26.599 --> 00:33:29.519 engineered out of existence, like they have no like truck 481 00:33:29.559 --> 00:33:35.240 with it, you know. Like Stalin did try to like, uh, 482 00:33:35.480 --> 00:33:38.720 what do you called the nationalities problem? That definitely tracks 483 00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:41.319 you know with like ethnic cleansing under US because the 484 00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:45.839 civil rights in America. But that's because the quote nationalities 485 00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:49.400 were causing problems for the party and for the Central Committee, 486 00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:52.440 you know, and if they weren't causing problems, like it 487 00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:55.400 wasn't so much a priority. 488 00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:55.240 Wasn't it. 489 00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:58.359 Because the like, the the nationalities that he had a 490 00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:02.319 problem with, he considered to be the aspara person nationalities 491 00:34:02.359 --> 00:34:05.640 that could possibly collude with their home countries. 492 00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:10.280 That was part of it. Yeah, definitely that's part of it, definitely, 493 00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:13.360 and that's why that's one of the reasons why, uh, 494 00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:17.000 one of the reasons the Soviets assaulted Poland. I mean 495 00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:18.960 it was it was obviously because you know, there was 496 00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:22.119 a geostrategic imperative to be able to deploy in depth 497 00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:24.400 and things like that. But also there was like an 498 00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:29.800 active like Ruthenian minority there that Stalin was convinced we're 499 00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:32.480 gonna try and like reinforce the Ukrainians like an event 500 00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:34.800 of open war. Yeah, it was all that stuff. And 501 00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:36.920 don't get me wrong. Also, like I'm not I'm not 502 00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:40.119 I'm not sitting here defending the concept of like new 503 00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:48.039 Soviet man like eventually like identitarian characteristics relating to historical memory, 504 00:34:48.280 --> 00:34:51.639 like weren't we're slad for annihilation under like a communist 505 00:34:51.679 --> 00:34:54.519 system And Hoswam would have absolutely agreed with that. But 506 00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:58.119 my point is guys like Hobbam weren't sitting around saying, like, 507 00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:02.800 you know, we need to settle like African people in 508 00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:06.960 Ireland because it's not right that it's one hundred percent Irish, 509 00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:11.000 Like they view that as like it's nonsensical, you know, 510 00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:15.840 just like people like hobsbamb when Nuremberg kicked off the proceedings. 511 00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:19.760 You know, the view from Moscow wash, why are we 512 00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:21.639 gonna why are we gonna like declared Jews? Maybe this 513 00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:24.639 like murdered population. You know, we lost twenty five million 514 00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:27.440 people fighting the fascists, you know, like you're not there. 515 00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:29.679 And plus there are no Jews in the Soviet Union. 516 00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:32.960 You know, there's like Soviet citizens. You know, there's the 517 00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:35.920 body politic, and there's like our ops, and there's the 518 00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:38.199 most people outside of that, you know, and then there's 519 00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:42.280 and then there's like the Zionists and other like other 520 00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:47.559 vanguard tendencies trying to exploit you know, grieven since the 521 00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:50.639 nationality used to undermine socialism, like that was their view 522 00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:53.960 of it, you know, and even today, like that's why 523 00:35:54.079 --> 00:35:56.559 this carries over into today, Like the way the Russian 524 00:35:56.599 --> 00:36:01.000 Federation views things, like the Russians are always he's always 525 00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:05.679 gonna view their enemies as Nazis and fascists. How would 526 00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:10.239 they not? Okay, But when they talk about that, they're not. 527 00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:13.199 They're not. They're not saying it like the way like 528 00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:15.960 like like the way Chuck Schumer uses you're not or 529 00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:19.320 they're not saying that you know, these people are like 530 00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:23.280 anti gay or there or these people don't respect, you know, 531 00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:27.239 theherent dignity of all people. And they're not into diversity. 532 00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:29.159 That's not what they're saying at all, Like they mean 533 00:36:29.239 --> 00:36:34.440 something very specific by it, and you know that's that 534 00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:39.119 it's it's uh, it's both uh a uh it both 535 00:36:39.159 --> 00:36:42.199 alos you know, the Ancestral Memory and the Great Patriotic 536 00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:45.159 War as well as there's still like a lot of 537 00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:48.480 there's still a lot of like leftag alien thought like 538 00:36:48.519 --> 00:36:52.480 in Russia. You know, even somebody like Dugan, and I 539 00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:57.679 like Dugan, I I mean a lot of Russian academic 540 00:36:57.679 --> 00:37:00.679 culture I find kind of alien just because I'm like 541 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:03.280 very much an Anglophone person. And that's not I'm not 542 00:37:03.320 --> 00:37:06.119 putting shade on like the Eastern Slavic people's or something, 543 00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:09.920 but uh, I don't find it. I mean, they're very 544 00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:14.960 much like a different people. Okay, But even a guy 545 00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:19.960 like Dugan, there's very much like left to Gaelian strains 546 00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:23.440 of like letting his thought like and stuff that he postulates. 547 00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:27.239 And he's like very much like a I mean, he's 548 00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:31.119 he's very much a committed Christian, you know, like Eastern Christian. 549 00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:36.000 You know, that's a bit of a tangent. Forgive me 550 00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:39.960 if that was a kind of outside the scope. But 551 00:37:39.960 --> 00:37:42.440 but I mean this stuffs important, uh you know, not 552 00:37:42.519 --> 00:37:46.880 just to clarify what we're talking about and my my 553 00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:50.679 kind of primary wheel outs this political theory, but you know, 554 00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:54.440 just structuring the kind of conceptual landscape and which were 555 00:37:54.440 --> 00:37:58.639 remired just declaring anybody on the left be a Marxist 556 00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:02.199 like that, that doesn't make any sense. It's like that 557 00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:05.719 that says that's just that's just fucking retarded as saying 558 00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:08.599 that like Donald Trump is a fascist or like the 559 00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:11.480 p there were like people who avidly like follow his 560 00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:16.760 you know, media and political career and and and support him, 561 00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:20.280 you know, are like fascists. Like it's it's just as 562 00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:24.679 ridiculous and and at odds and the reality is is 563 00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:29.119 saying that. But yeah, I'll try to I'll try to 564 00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:33.760 pick it up a little bit worse the tangents, but uh, 565 00:38:35.239 --> 00:38:41.639 it's kind of magnum opus. There's a four volume uh 566 00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:48.840 study called the Age Revolution Age Revolution seventeen eighty nine 567 00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:51.960 to eighteen forty eight, and the first volume dropped in 568 00:38:52.039 --> 00:38:58.239 nineteen sixty two. This is a seminal work of historicism. 569 00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:05.519 In my opinion, you can find the abridged uh this 570 00:39:05.719 --> 00:39:08.119 version of it in a series of PDF files if 571 00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:11.079 you dig around, if there, if people are really interested, 572 00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:14.599 I'll i'll, I'll throw it up on my on my 573 00:39:14.679 --> 00:39:25.280 sub stack. But you know, basically it uh the cosbomb, 574 00:39:26.679 --> 00:39:35.239 like modernity really arrived with the French Revolution, Okay, and 575 00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:37.239 what do he what I mean by that, and like 576 00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:41.719 what he conveys in the first volume of this Age 577 00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:46.280 of Age of Revolution is that you know, the overwelming 578 00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:51.199 majority of people in Europe in seventeen eighty nine, they 579 00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:54.719 still they still lived like people did in the medieval period. 580 00:39:55.280 --> 00:39:58.800 You know, there was you had this kind of very 581 00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:04.039 very slim I already of dedicated urbanites, you know, and 582 00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:09.559 people who were close to technology and productive processes facilitated 583 00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:15.199 by technology. But almost everybody they were living, you know, 584 00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:23.400 basically as subsistence farmers or as people you know, laboring 585 00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:27.679 with the household as the local production, you know, and 586 00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:31.760 essentially bartering and trading on things they could make, you know, 587 00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:36.960 within the household. You know, this wasn't I think people 588 00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:42.719 this idea that you know, after like upon the Ansen 589 00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:45.760 of the Age of Discovery or whatever, like suddenly things 590 00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:48.519 became moderate and everybody lived in a city or like 591 00:40:48.559 --> 00:40:53.239 a town, but just things were low tech compared to today, 592 00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:57.159 Like that wasn't most people in seventeen eighty nine lived 593 00:40:57.239 --> 00:40:59.920 not much different than they did in thirteen eighty nine. Okay, 594 00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:07.480 And this is fundamentally important. And that's kind of where 595 00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:10.800 hobsbamb It's subtle, but it's very much there, and I 596 00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:14.000 consider it's a set. I consider it essential to understanding 597 00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:20.400 something of his political of something of his ontological claims 598 00:41:20.440 --> 00:41:26.639 about politics. As I said a minute ago in a 599 00:41:26.679 --> 00:41:30.159 slightly liment context, you know, when Rousseau talks about the 600 00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:33.719 general will and I highly recommend Rousseau to anybody on 601 00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:38.840 the right. He's very important. I first read him when 602 00:41:38.840 --> 00:41:47.039 I was about sixteen, and that completely changed my perspective 603 00:41:47.079 --> 00:41:50.920 on political theory. But you know, part of it's uh, 604 00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:55.639 part of it's because things are lost in translation, particularly 605 00:41:56.960 --> 00:42:00.199 French and English. There's a lot of cot there's a 606 00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:05.519 lot of subtle concepts intrinsic to the French language, particularly 607 00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:08.679 if you're talking about metaphysics or politics or anything conceptual 608 00:42:09.159 --> 00:42:14.400 that really that really doesn't translate but the general will, 609 00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:18.800 like Russell again, Rousseau's not talking about some majoritarian consensus 610 00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:24.039 of like the whole body politic describing it as general. 611 00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:28.159 The way to understand that is to mean something bigger 612 00:42:28.199 --> 00:42:34.880 than like a discrete individual actor or actors. You've got 613 00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:38.000 to think about it as inextricably bound up to Zeitgeist, 614 00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:42.639 like as a concept. Okay, so the general will. It 615 00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:45.199 might only be like one hundred guys out of a 616 00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:49.840 population of like five million people, but for whatever reason 617 00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:54.599 they astride to Zeitgeist. They've got like the gumption sort 618 00:42:54.599 --> 00:43:03.840 of the intelligence and politic mobile terms, and the motivation 619 00:43:04.599 --> 00:43:11.920 and the balls to see through purely historical and irrevolutionary imperatives, 620 00:43:14.119 --> 00:43:20.800 you know, in a way that has a formative effect, 621 00:43:20.920 --> 00:43:26.199 you know, either as like a reformist tendency or alternatively, 622 00:43:27.559 --> 00:43:31.079 it can be a tendency towards creative destruction and oblivion. 623 00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:40.960 But basically, the general Will describes this like intangible tendency 624 00:43:41.079 --> 00:43:56.159 or sensibility that animates this this cadre at in deeply 625 00:43:56.199 --> 00:44:01.639 psychological terms, and animates and motivates them to realize a 626 00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:08.800 revolutionary imperative. Okay, often too, this dovetails and peculiar ways 627 00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:12.000 with whoever. The leadership element is of the state as 628 00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:22.079 it exists, you know, in situ okay. But that's so 629 00:44:22.280 --> 00:44:26.440 Habma makes a lot of that in Age of Revolution, okay, 630 00:44:26.840 --> 00:44:30.599 because a lot of court history that is now and 631 00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:34.320 for that's the jaguin revolution. It's a combination of like 632 00:44:34.360 --> 00:44:37.480 goofy stuff. I think people filled from stuff like like 633 00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:40.239 like late miuse or something where it's like, oh, everybody 634 00:44:40.239 --> 00:44:44.199 who was living in poverty and the crushing misery of 635 00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:48.039 these slums. So there was like this uprising, like that's 636 00:44:48.079 --> 00:44:54.119 not what happened. And again, you know, the material conditions 637 00:44:54.159 --> 00:44:59.719 of seventeen eighty nine, the purely material conditions weren't radically 638 00:45:00.199 --> 00:45:06.960 than centuries past. Okay, conceptually they were totally different. And 639 00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:12.400 that's that's what I mean when I point out that 640 00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:18.639 Hosbaum was a was a true left to Galien. Psychological 641 00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:25.480 variables stand in for providential ones. Okay. But people are 642 00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:29.840 familiar with the subject area in general terms understand exactly 643 00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:37.159 what I'm talking about and why that's important. The succeeding 644 00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:42.159 valume in this four volume study was was Age of Capital, 645 00:45:43.719 --> 00:45:49.880 you know, and Age of Capital. I think it's kind 646 00:45:49.880 --> 00:45:55.400 of it's kind of a counterpart the Shupiter's business cycles. Okay, 647 00:45:55.880 --> 00:45:59.639 and it's interesting to me that this kind of Simpleton's 648 00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:06.079 off like Keenes, even people who are pretty outside the 649 00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:11.119 mainstream and pretty far left, they still cite that kind 650 00:46:11.119 --> 00:46:13.880 of stuff. You know, I would think that Age of 651 00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:18.360 Capital would be their kind of go to, you know. 652 00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:21.800 And it's highly it was. It was a highly respected, 653 00:46:21.960 --> 00:46:29.639 uh treatise because it it showcased a genuine understanding of economics, 654 00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:35.079 you know, and I I generally agree with Burnham. There's 655 00:46:35.119 --> 00:46:39.239 not a quote Marxist economics because Marxism isn't a science. 656 00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:46.039 It's not a theory of economics, you know, it's uh, 657 00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:51.559 it's a series of sociological postulates and claims about the 658 00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:55.639 historical process, you know. But there's not quote Marxist economics. 659 00:46:56.960 --> 00:47:01.719 You know, like like a Marxist economist, you know, he 660 00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:08.679 arbitrarily way inputs, you know, based on his own conceptual 661 00:47:08.760 --> 00:47:17.400 biases about what, in particular concrete terms, is like driving this, 662 00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:20.760 you know, the stage of the historical process, you know 663 00:47:20.840 --> 00:47:27.239 that he finds himself in or that was the you 664 00:47:27.239 --> 00:47:30.400 know at Bock in which the the data being coded 665 00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:37.000 and interpreted occurred. You know, it's uh, it begins with 666 00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:44.880 the conclusion about the human condition as it relates to 667 00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:51.199 historical and political phenomena, and then and and then and 668 00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:59.119 then seeks out variables that that can substantiate it. And uh, 669 00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:03.559 in part is in terms you know, and there's some 670 00:48:03.599 --> 00:48:05.480 of that and a lot of Hosmon's writing, but he 671 00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:09.880 but again he understands puer economics of such a thing 672 00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:14.880 that we said to exist better than most people. I mean, 673 00:48:14.920 --> 00:48:17.360 including uh. I don't think academics are any great shakes, 674 00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:20.199 but I mean including people who were you know, were 675 00:48:21.920 --> 00:48:27.360 in you know, his his peer group as a as 676 00:48:27.400 --> 00:48:35.000 a as a political uh partisan, and as a as 677 00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:42.760 a political theorist, and you know what can and this 678 00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:47.360 is also is what explains hosmons like lifelong dedication to communism, 679 00:48:48.320 --> 00:48:51.559 because it's a total theory of history. You know, it's 680 00:48:51.599 --> 00:48:56.800 not something you take on for because you're alienated and 681 00:48:56.800 --> 00:48:59.639 and like want some protest identity. I mean, yeah, I'm 682 00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:01.760 sure some people do that, but they they're not serious 683 00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:05.440 people and they're certainly not they're certainly not writing stuff, 684 00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:07.840 you know, like on a par with the Age Revolution, 685 00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:12.559 of the Age of Capital and Hosmon've never hid that, 686 00:49:13.960 --> 00:49:17.760 you know it. But he also one of one of 687 00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:24.159 Hobswe's collaborators on a on a lot of scholarship and 688 00:49:24.199 --> 00:49:26.639 a lot of his work product was this guy Eric 689 00:49:26.760 --> 00:49:33.320 Forearner Foreigner was was known. He became like firebrand who 690 00:49:33.320 --> 00:49:37.239 was like constantly bashing garbage off and you know, and 691 00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:40.440 and and issuing these these these punitive declarations about a 692 00:49:40.440 --> 00:49:43.800 garbage off is is forsaking the revolution. And he's a 693 00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:48.960 trader the the Sovietism and you know, into and of 694 00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:53.519 the socialist Communitian nations as well as the UH. It's 695 00:49:53.559 --> 00:49:55.960 most of the political parties that are you know behind 696 00:49:58.360 --> 00:50:01.320 you know who exists in in in the capitalist world 697 00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:04.320 as well. Like Hoswon ever did that. And it's not 698 00:50:04.360 --> 00:50:06.920 because he was worried about his public image. I mean, 699 00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:10.480 he would defend Snalin publicly. It's because if you are 700 00:50:10.519 --> 00:50:14.440 a true Mercus Leninist like he was, like the failure 701 00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:20.280 of the Soviet Union was ordained by that same process, 702 00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:24.679 you know, in Hosbom's his unconditional loyalty to the Soviet 703 00:50:24.760 --> 00:50:30.000 Union contrary its enemies, that didn't entail some like slavish 704 00:50:30.159 --> 00:50:37.119 like uncritical view of it, you know, when when Kruse 705 00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:45.800 Chef was assailing Stalin's memory and you know by name, 706 00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:53.320 attempting to impeach the personality cult. You know, obviously after 707 00:50:53.440 --> 00:51:04.239 a after nineteen sixty, after after nineteen fifty four, fifty 708 00:51:04.239 --> 00:51:06.760 four to fifty six there, and you know how Hosmom 709 00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:12.719 said to his comrades, you know, at cadre level, you know, 710 00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:16.719 we we we we need to we need to take 711 00:51:16.760 --> 00:51:22.159 a hard look at at at Stalin's tenure. And you 712 00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:25.360 know what what what was laudable and what went wrong 713 00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:27.880 and what you know was in fact a kind of 714 00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:34.599 revolutionary tendency, because otherwise, you know, the the revolution won't survive. 715 00:51:34.719 --> 00:51:39.239 And and has I was honest too. Osmon obviously had 716 00:51:39.239 --> 00:51:41.800 a lot of respect for the Russians of people, but 717 00:51:41.920 --> 00:51:50.599 he you know, he was always he was a Soviet partisan, 718 00:51:50.679 --> 00:51:55.199 but with with with reservations, because he was the first 719 00:51:55.199 --> 00:52:02.199 to make the point, you know, uh, the revolutionary imperative 720 00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:07.360 didn't spark in the most hyper advanced capitalist country. It 721 00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:10.280 didn't happen in Germany, it didn't happen in the UK. 722 00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:15.960 It happened in Russia, where the capitalist class was on 723 00:52:16.159 --> 00:52:22.760 very tenuous ground. You know, and were they the opponent's 724 00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:27.679 revolution were really the Tsarist elements. So we're incredibly hard guys. 725 00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:33.159 They were god hearing people, they were patriots, but they 726 00:52:33.199 --> 00:52:36.800 were thrown in altered reactionaries. I don't mean that putatively 727 00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:39.719 at all, but that's what they were. You know, they 728 00:52:39.719 --> 00:52:45.320 weren't there weren't some capitalist element that you know, could 729 00:52:45.400 --> 00:52:50.840 draw upon this great power available to them by you know, 730 00:52:50.960 --> 00:52:57.840 the productive processes that can literally extract wealth out of 731 00:52:57.880 --> 00:53:01.079 the dirt. You know. That's not uh, that's none of 732 00:53:01.079 --> 00:53:04.559 the Bolsheviks were facing down and murdering, you know. So 733 00:53:04.639 --> 00:53:07.840 they they they kind of knocked down a house of 734 00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:13.000 cards in what became the Soviet Union, you know. And 735 00:53:14.039 --> 00:53:17.440 Hoswell never lost sight of that. So yeah, on the 736 00:53:17.480 --> 00:53:22.840 one hand, you know, you must stand with the Soviet Union. 737 00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:26.000 The Soviet Union is the it is the beating heart 738 00:53:26.760 --> 00:53:30.880 of the socialist community of nations and of the revolution, 739 00:53:32.599 --> 00:53:36.440 you know, but that doesn't mean that, you know, one 740 00:53:36.519 --> 00:53:43.960 must uncritically accept every feature of of the Soviet state. 741 00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:49.400 And uh, hoswellm was critical of state socialism from day one, 742 00:53:49.519 --> 00:53:53.519 like he considered it a necessary stage. But he wasn't 743 00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:55.800 That's what the reasons. I object to people saying, oh, 744 00:53:55.840 --> 00:54:02.639 he was like the Stalinist, like a true Stalinist was 745 00:54:02.719 --> 00:54:08.119 uh was or is uh you know somebody who looks 746 00:54:08.119 --> 00:54:10.760 at the Soviet state as like the zenith of stay 747 00:54:10.840 --> 00:54:13.400 craft and then and and they view that as like 748 00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:20.280 a positive thing, you know, basically uh, you know, based 749 00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:28.360 basically uh basically this this this, this mighty empire of 750 00:54:28.519 --> 00:54:35.599 uh you know that like leaves the world in in 751 00:54:35.599 --> 00:54:39.400 in in terms of how like you know, the industrial 752 00:54:39.400 --> 00:54:43.280 proletariat is valued. You know, it's a superpower because of 753 00:54:43.320 --> 00:54:47.159 its military might and it's mastery of technics, including nuclear 754 00:54:47.199 --> 00:54:50.440 weapons and the ability to deploy into orbital space and 755 00:54:50.480 --> 00:54:54.119 things like that. You know, like these and these guys 756 00:54:54.159 --> 00:54:56.960 do exist, you know, I mean like that is now 757 00:54:57.119 --> 00:55:00.519 like Hosman was not at all one of those guys. Okay, 758 00:55:01.400 --> 00:55:09.199 to be clear, let me see, I'm in my outline, 759 00:55:09.559 --> 00:55:13.000 like I'm not uh, I'm not an F A G, 760 00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:16.280 G O T who like you know, I gotta stick 761 00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:20.599 to the outline. But I but it doesn't like a 762 00:55:21.760 --> 00:55:24.639 like a conceptual map, so I know where we're at. 763 00:55:24.679 --> 00:55:30.519 They don't want to Yeah, let's uh hoss problem. Well, 764 00:55:31.119 --> 00:55:33.840 I want to get this biographical sort of info out 765 00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:36.320 of the way to the lay foundation. We'll get into 766 00:55:36.360 --> 00:55:44.559 the substance of Hobsbam's you know, intellectual canon in episode two. 767 00:55:44.599 --> 00:55:46.360 But I want to I want to get and we 768 00:55:46.400 --> 00:55:51.000 need to get into the dual Revolution, which is a 769 00:55:51.239 --> 00:55:54.559 it's it's a it's a political theoretical and a sociological 770 00:55:55.559 --> 00:56:01.159 postulating concept that was coined, uh that quite by Hosbam 771 00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:04.960 and now in scholarship on the French Revolution. It's it's 772 00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:07.679 just kind of taken, it's just kind of accepted. It's 773 00:56:07.719 --> 00:56:14.199 accepted as like an essential aspect of of that body 774 00:56:14.199 --> 00:56:16.679 of scholarship. But if I, but if I, that's going 775 00:56:16.719 --> 00:56:20.519 to take an hour to dive into. So let's let's 776 00:56:20.519 --> 00:56:22.840 hold off on that. And I think we're coming on 777 00:56:22.960 --> 00:56:26.039 about an hour anyway, So yeah, I think this would 778 00:56:26.079 --> 00:56:29.559 be a natural stopping point if that's acceptable. 779 00:56:30.519 --> 00:56:35.760 Perfect, All right, do plugs and we'll talk about the 780 00:56:35.800 --> 00:56:36.679 next episode. 781 00:56:37.719 --> 00:56:45.639 Yeah. Man, I strongly advise, or I mean not advise, 782 00:56:45.880 --> 00:56:47.840 I suggest it would make me happy if people would 783 00:56:47.920 --> 00:56:50.280 check out my substack. And it's in addition to there 784 00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:52.800 being like my podcast there and like some longer form 785 00:56:52.880 --> 00:57:00.599 stuff and a pretty active like chat platform. That's where 786 00:57:00.639 --> 00:57:04.719 when I shout out stuff, like you know, events and 787 00:57:04.719 --> 00:57:08.400 inactivities were up on it, it shows up there. It's 788 00:57:08.440 --> 00:57:13.360 a real Thomas seven seven seven dot substack dot com. 789 00:57:13.400 --> 00:57:17.719 This Saturday, we're meeting at Rosewood Cemetery for our Halloween 790 00:57:17.800 --> 00:57:20.920 Cemetery Walk and we're gonna lay some flowers at Confederate 791 00:57:20.960 --> 00:57:26.079 Mound to like honor our forebears and their sacrifice and 792 00:57:26.199 --> 00:57:30.159 for the Orthodox guys and girls. Mercia Eliotti is buried 793 00:57:30.199 --> 00:57:33.840 at the same uh cemetery and we're gonna pay respects 794 00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:36.559 to him. And Eliatti has had a huge effect on 795 00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:44.039 impact on my intellectual development. So we're uh, it's it's 796 00:57:44.079 --> 00:57:47.639 it's gonna be a very positive day, you know, uh 797 00:57:47.679 --> 00:57:51.559 if somber. But last last year we went to Graceland 798 00:57:51.639 --> 00:57:54.039 Cemetery up on the North Side and it was it 799 00:57:54.119 --> 00:57:58.000 was fantastic and a lot of people showed up. But uh, 800 00:57:58.239 --> 00:58:02.599 you'll find me on social media. I meant capital r 801 00:58:02.599 --> 00:58:06.719 e A L underscore number seven hl mes seven seven 802 00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:10.239 seven and I'm there just like check the pinned uh 803 00:58:10.960 --> 00:58:14.840 like post I you can find like merge that like 804 00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:18.880 my dear friend here Kreig produces you can find a 805 00:58:18.920 --> 00:58:23.400 links my Instagram, my t gram, the my website, like 806 00:58:23.440 --> 00:58:27.000 all kinds of stuff. So just uh and if you 807 00:58:27.079 --> 00:58:29.320 if you include some of this stuff in the description, man, 808 00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:30.360 that would be a great help. 809 00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:33.119 I got it all ready to go. 810 00:58:33.280 --> 00:58:35.559 I just copy and paste from the last episode and 811 00:58:35.639 --> 00:58:39.760 uh put it right over so your merch and uh 812 00:58:39.920 --> 00:58:43.280 links to the Gum Roads. So yep, that's it until 813 00:58:43.400 --> 00:58:45.440 the next time. Thank you very much, Thomas. 814 00:58:45.760 --> 00:58:46.519 Yeah, thank you, buddy. 815 00:58:48.719 --> 00:58:51.280 I want to welcome everyone back to the Pecanana Show. 816 00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:54.320 Thomas is here. We're going to go into part two 817 00:58:55.000 --> 00:58:58.760 of Eric Hobsbamb. Are you doing, Thomas, I know it 818 00:58:58.760 --> 00:58:59.239 pretty well. 819 00:58:59.280 --> 00:59:00.280 Thanks for hosting me. 820 00:59:01.480 --> 00:59:03.800 Of course. So what are we going to look into 821 00:59:03.880 --> 00:59:08.000 today when it comes to mister Hobsbam. 822 00:59:08.079 --> 00:59:14.639 I was going to expand upon his historical perspective and 823 00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:23.599 why in substance terms, he opposed the schismatics, the schismatic 824 00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:26.840 tendency is and the standard bearers of those things after 825 00:59:26.920 --> 00:59:30.920 nineteen sixty eight, and people have every superficial understanding of 826 00:59:31.000 --> 00:59:36.119 Mersus Leninism and of what Sovietism was generally. You know, 827 00:59:36.199 --> 00:59:40.960 That's why I object a lot of people banning the 828 00:59:40.960 --> 00:59:48.119 phrase cultural Marxism, Like there's an appropriate context to apply 829 00:59:48.199 --> 00:59:51.360 that phraseology. I'm not going to say there's not, but 830 00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:55.679 generally people don't apply it in those contexts, and they 831 00:59:55.679 --> 00:59:59.159 seem to discern anything or identify anything that's at all 832 00:59:59.400 --> 01:00:06.079 like radic goal or you know, progressive and orientation, or 833 01:00:06.159 --> 01:00:10.280 that's related to the ongoing social engineering regime and like 834 01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:14.360 the paradigm that he gives rise to in like discursive terms. 835 01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:18.639 That's identify that as Marxism. I mean, that's that's grossly incorrect, 836 01:00:19.360 --> 01:00:21.159 you know. And it's not I'm not just playing word 837 01:00:21.239 --> 01:00:24.320 games or being like a pedant or something. You know, 838 01:00:24.360 --> 01:00:26.960 it's important to be clear about what we're talking about. 839 01:00:27.039 --> 01:00:30.760 Particularly we're dealing with something as kind of abstract and 840 01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:34.519 conceptual as political theory, you know, and a guy like 841 01:00:34.559 --> 01:00:37.320 Hobbs will almost a real Marxist, you know, and he 842 01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:42.360 actively disdained the standard bearers of the sorts of tendencies 843 01:00:42.400 --> 01:00:44.719 I just mentioned, you know, not because he was like 844 01:00:44.760 --> 01:00:46.880 a good guy, you're because he was correct in his 845 01:00:46.920 --> 01:00:52.639 assessment of historical phenomenon and the approximate causes of you know, 846 01:00:54.480 --> 01:00:58.199 these punctuated developments in the twentieth century. But he did 847 01:00:58.239 --> 01:01:03.639 have certain insights into history processes. You know, he's the 848 01:01:03.639 --> 01:01:06.840 one who coined the phrase the quote quote the short 849 01:01:06.880 --> 01:01:10.880 century to refer to the twentieth century. I mean, Nolty 850 01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:16.719 agreed with it, you know, the short century being the 851 01:01:16.719 --> 01:01:23.440 cycle of events that were emerged in nineteen fourteen and 852 01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:27.199 that ended on November ninth, nineteen eighty nine, you know, 853 01:01:29.360 --> 01:01:34.119 contra the long century, you know of after water after 854 01:01:34.199 --> 01:01:39.000 Waterloo until nineteen fourteen, I mean after Waterloo, other than 855 01:01:39.039 --> 01:01:42.199 the Crimean War and the Franco Prussian War, both of 856 01:01:42.199 --> 01:01:44.880 which were very localized conflicts and both of which were 857 01:01:44.920 --> 01:01:51.800 brief and neither of which really had some destructive impactfulness 858 01:01:51.840 --> 01:01:54.639 at scale on the continent. One of the reasons why 859 01:01:54.719 --> 01:01:57.480 so many mercenaries from Europe fought in the War between 860 01:01:57.519 --> 01:02:03.920 the States and even you know Henry Henry Werez, the 861 01:02:04.039 --> 01:02:08.519 commandant of Andersonville, who was unceremoniously hanged. So that's a 862 01:02:08.679 --> 01:02:13.760 that's a really grim and macabre story everything about Andersonville 863 01:02:14.119 --> 01:02:17.360 and his demise. But he was a Swiss national who 864 01:02:17.360 --> 01:02:20.920 found his way in the United States, you know, because 865 01:02:20.960 --> 01:02:23.440 that's where the action was. You know, don't get me wrong, 866 01:02:23.559 --> 01:02:26.840 Like all kinds of punctuated things were happening in Europe 867 01:02:27.719 --> 01:02:32.679 of a technological nature, of a developmental nature, but like power, 868 01:02:32.719 --> 01:02:37.559 political affairs weren't really happening there, you know, I mean, 869 01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:40.719 and and if you take a long view, yes, okay, 870 01:02:40.760 --> 01:02:44.000 that kind of thing is always underway. But in Warren 871 01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:48.519 peace terms, they were not punctuated crises. There were not 872 01:02:50.559 --> 01:02:56.599 you know, crisis modalities that were emerging that you know, 873 01:02:56.719 --> 01:03:01.079 generated a need for men under arms and men with 874 01:03:01.119 --> 01:03:05.920 adjacent sorts of skill sets, you know, to participate in 875 01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:11.199 in those sorts of those sorts of uh happenings. But 876 01:03:11.199 --> 01:03:14.360 in America, obviously you better believe that was underway, and 877 01:03:14.400 --> 01:03:19.079 it's some this is a tangent. I'll make it brief, 878 01:03:19.159 --> 01:03:24.719 but you know McLellan who was famously sex by Lincoln, 879 01:03:26.199 --> 01:03:29.920 you know, and he you know Lincoln I'm paraphrasing, but 880 01:03:30.119 --> 01:03:33.639 you know, Lincoln family said, you know, I've got I've 881 01:03:33.639 --> 01:03:37.960 got a commanding general who refuses to assault, you know. 882 01:03:38.079 --> 01:03:43.280 And uh so his detractors and not just among not 883 01:03:43.360 --> 01:03:47.719 just among radical reformers and abolitionist but even pretty moderate 884 01:03:47.760 --> 01:03:50.400 people either band they branded him some kind of coward 885 01:03:50.440 --> 01:03:53.960 who was like afraid of being under fire or this, 886 01:03:54.239 --> 01:03:57.000 or he was some kind of like secret copperhead. He 887 01:03:57.079 --> 01:03:59.119 was in neither of those things. He'd been on the 888 01:03:59.159 --> 01:04:01.320 ground in prime me because before the war in the 889 01:04:01.360 --> 01:04:04.800 States kicked off, other than the Indian wars, which were 890 01:04:04.840 --> 01:04:09.519 utterly savage, but we're not. But in scope and scale, 891 01:04:09.519 --> 01:04:15.679 we're very limited, you know, other than that, like conventional 892 01:04:17.840 --> 01:04:20.760 combined ours what was then emerging combined arms, you know, 893 01:04:20.880 --> 01:04:23.760 indirect fire, like the only way you really I mean 894 01:04:23.840 --> 01:04:26.920 liaising with foreign militaries was like something that was done 895 01:04:26.960 --> 01:04:29.920 in the Western world anyway. But it's also like if 896 01:04:29.960 --> 01:04:33.480 you wanted to, you know, if you wanted to, if 897 01:04:33.519 --> 01:04:36.320 you wanted to cut your teeth in a combat zone. 898 01:04:37.199 --> 01:04:40.719 You know McClellan's generation, Well, you went to Europe, you know, 899 01:04:40.800 --> 01:04:44.000 you drilled with the Prussians or you know, you you 900 01:04:44.079 --> 01:04:47.320 were a liaison to the French or the British. And 901 01:04:47.800 --> 01:04:50.480 McClelland saw what was happening on the ground in Crimea, 902 01:04:51.440 --> 01:04:53.360 and you saw the Master artillery and what it was 903 01:04:53.440 --> 01:04:56.760 doing to the human body, and he's like, this is horrific. 904 01:04:57.519 --> 01:05:00.119 So he's like, if we if we we started it, 905 01:05:01.239 --> 01:05:04.239 if we start if we start cavalry charging like masks 906 01:05:04.280 --> 01:05:08.159 Confederate artillery, like this is gonna be a slaughter, and 907 01:05:08.280 --> 01:05:12.840 that's what happened, you know. But uh, this is sort 908 01:05:12.840 --> 01:05:18.360 of an aside. But any event, you know, Uh, to 909 01:05:18.440 --> 01:05:21.719 bring it back to where we should be at, I 910 01:05:25.159 --> 01:05:28.199 I did it right up years back of Paul Godfrey's 911 01:05:28.400 --> 01:05:31.159 talk and his paper. You know how the left won 912 01:05:31.239 --> 01:05:33.440 the Cold War, because the left did win the Cold War. 913 01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:40.559 The people like Hobsbaum lost the Cold War, you know, 914 01:05:40.760 --> 01:05:45.800 the standard bearers of Sovietism and of uh. I don't 915 01:05:45.840 --> 01:05:48.480 think Hosmam was a Stalinist in the sense that somebody 916 01:05:48.639 --> 01:05:51.039 like Dougan kind of is, or in the way more 917 01:05:51.039 --> 01:05:52.920 and more properly, He's not a stalinist in the way 918 01:05:52.960 --> 01:05:54.400 that guys like Jackson Hinkle are. 919 01:05:55.639 --> 01:05:56.960 But I mean he wasn't. 920 01:05:57.199 --> 01:06:02.079 He wasn't opposed to that tendency either, you know. And 921 01:06:02.239 --> 01:06:05.719 like we got into he stated and know un certain terms, 922 01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:10.880 you know, after after the energym and border came down 923 01:06:12.360 --> 01:06:17.400 that you know, whatever happened in the Soviet Union, but 924 01:06:17.599 --> 01:06:22.840 it had the had the Communist revolution been realized, it 925 01:06:22.880 --> 01:06:24.800 would have been worth it in his opinion, you know. 926 01:06:24.840 --> 01:06:29.239 And that's so he was he was honest about, you know, 927 01:06:31.480 --> 01:06:34.360 about that perspective, and I mean that's the way every 928 01:06:35.199 --> 01:06:38.280 that's the way every Marcist Leninist thought, you know, and 929 01:06:38.400 --> 01:06:40.920 and such that they still exist today. I don't think 930 01:06:40.920 --> 01:06:44.199 guys like Hankle when like the kind of reconstituted American 931 01:06:44.280 --> 01:06:47.239 Communist Party, they've also got a presence on the East 932 01:06:47.320 --> 01:06:51.400 Coast these days. They're distinct from like whatever, this vestigial 933 01:06:51.800 --> 01:06:53.679 Communist Party USA, which are just like a bunch of 934 01:06:53.800 --> 01:06:55.960 liberals who don't know what the fuck they're talking about. 935 01:06:56.079 --> 01:06:59.639 But kind of like the reconstituted American Communist Party, I 936 01:06:59.719 --> 01:07:03.000 mean they believe that too, but they're kind of they're 937 01:07:03.000 --> 01:07:06.199 they're kind of like a dialectical offshoot of what was 938 01:07:06.320 --> 01:07:10.400 the Marcus Lennon's perspective. I think that they uh, I 939 01:07:10.440 --> 01:07:13.719 think they're big on guys like Emmanuel Wallerstein and like 940 01:07:13.760 --> 01:07:18.320 they they subscribed like global systems theory, which is serious stuff. 941 01:07:18.480 --> 01:07:21.719 But but they are like stylinists, like they don't, you know, 942 01:07:21.800 --> 01:07:25.679 they're they tolerate religious people these days, they're not. They're 943 01:07:25.719 --> 01:07:30.079 not these like doctrinal atheists who view themselves as being 944 01:07:30.159 --> 01:07:34.000 at war with established churches. And things like they're tolerant 945 01:07:34.039 --> 01:07:37.400 to that, but they're they remain like atheistic, like what 946 01:07:37.599 --> 01:07:41.880 was it matter if you killed twenty million people to advance, uh, 947 01:07:42.679 --> 01:07:45.679 you know the realization of true communism, Like it doesn't 948 01:07:45.719 --> 01:07:48.480 matter because well you know that that that's that's just 949 01:07:48.599 --> 01:07:52.079 creative destruction and and human if humans are just so 950 01:07:52.199 --> 01:07:55.960 much mentioned material and mentally more valuable than you know, 951 01:07:56.159 --> 01:08:01.320 animal livestock or material things that may be as they 952 01:08:01.400 --> 01:08:04.000 may be, there there's still just like so much you know, material, 953 01:08:04.719 --> 01:08:08.039 you know, and that uh, that's important to keep in mind. 954 01:08:08.079 --> 01:08:11.000 I mean, I'm not not just I'm not being you 955 01:08:11.039 --> 01:08:13.280 know not, I'm not like moralizing here saying like and 956 01:08:13.360 --> 01:08:15.960 this is why the communists are a bunch of slavery beast. 957 01:08:17.359 --> 01:08:21.840 I think that their worldview, in addition to being kind 958 01:08:21.880 --> 01:08:26.800 of laughably up to and it's there. Yeah, I I 959 01:08:26.920 --> 01:08:30.640 believe it's like highly corrupt morally. But that's that's not 960 01:08:30.920 --> 01:08:34.920 at base. It's not really why people like me like 961 01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:38.560 object to their perspective, you know. But at the same time, 962 01:08:39.079 --> 01:08:42.399 you know, I uh, for some reason, the kinds of 963 01:08:42.479 --> 01:08:44.880 people people looks like chompsky all the time. And don't 964 01:08:44.880 --> 01:08:46.800 get me wrong. Like I think Chomsky wrote some pretty 965 01:08:46.840 --> 01:08:52.479 good stuff on linguistics and he he he uh, he'd 966 01:08:52.520 --> 01:08:56.319 be pretty handily treated people like Fuco who considered to 967 01:08:56.359 --> 01:08:59.840 be kind of unserious degenerates. But I mean Chompsky, Chomsky's 968 01:08:59.840 --> 01:09:03.119 basically like a moralizer and a polemicist, and I don't 969 01:09:03.119 --> 01:09:05.640 think he's got to really develop view of political theory. 970 01:09:06.199 --> 01:09:07.880 But I mean, I mean guys on the right, or 971 01:09:07.880 --> 01:09:11.319 at least guys kind of adjacent they don't have data, 972 01:09:11.359 --> 01:09:13.399 say Chomsky, but then they act like I'm some weirdo 973 01:09:13.520 --> 01:09:16.720 where like it's being like dev and I said, hobbsbamb 974 01:09:17.279 --> 01:09:19.560 you know, like Howsong was a serious historian man like 975 01:09:19.720 --> 01:09:23.479 unlike Chomsky, he like drops polemic about like you know, 976 01:09:23.840 --> 01:09:28.439 America is doing mean things, but the electonomy wrong, like 977 01:09:28.520 --> 01:09:31.359 America is there to be savage. But the day Chompsky, 978 01:09:31.960 --> 01:09:34.239 you know, he's he comes off like some hand ringing 979 01:09:34.319 --> 01:09:37.479 old woman. And I don't, I don't. I don't think 980 01:09:37.520 --> 01:09:39.920 he's a real political theorist, you know, like it's I 981 01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:44.079 don't it's not just me kind of guarding my own 982 01:09:44.119 --> 01:09:49.199 proverbial wheelhouse. I you know, at the level of deep analysis, 983 01:09:50.800 --> 01:09:54.000 like Nolt and Hosbom and like economy, political economs like 984 01:09:54.079 --> 01:09:57.279 Joseph Schumpeter, the suits of insights they were capable of, 985 01:09:57.560 --> 01:10:01.560 like in the moment, most people can't do that, you know. 986 01:10:01.920 --> 01:10:05.960 And I meet a lot of guys whoever this idea 987 01:10:06.119 --> 01:10:08.640 that you know, oh, you're like a mathematician or like 988 01:10:08.720 --> 01:10:12.359 you sell insurance or like you're, you know, some kind 989 01:10:12.399 --> 01:10:15.479 of molecular biologists. But oh, anybody you can have a 990 01:10:15.560 --> 01:10:17.600 take on putical theory. It's like, what the fuck are 991 01:10:17.600 --> 01:10:18.319 you talking about? 992 01:10:18.560 --> 01:10:18.680 You know. 993 01:10:18.760 --> 01:10:20.840 And that's these guys that would no insight. It's not 994 01:10:20.880 --> 01:10:23.000 even made like IQ man, Like these guys are like 995 01:10:23.079 --> 01:10:26.039 way smarter than I am, you know, and but they 996 01:10:26.199 --> 01:10:28.760 they're but they're like conceptually illiterate. It's because they can't 997 01:10:29.279 --> 01:10:33.319 discern the relevant patterns and things, you know, Like it's 998 01:10:33.439 --> 01:10:35.560 it's not like an intelligence thing. Yeah I don't you can. 999 01:10:35.960 --> 01:10:38.760 I mean, I accuse of religion now on the right, 1000 01:10:39.479 --> 01:10:42.319 on some parts of the right. I mean, if you 1001 01:10:42.479 --> 01:10:46.840 mentioned IQ and you do anything to like take one 1002 01:10:47.000 --> 01:10:50.800 step to say, well, you know, it really doesn't matter 1003 01:10:50.880 --> 01:10:53.359 with this, they just oh, that's cope, that's cope, bro, 1004 01:10:53.920 --> 01:10:54.520 that's cope. 1005 01:10:55.560 --> 01:10:58.640 Well, no, they're retards. And that's like outmoded thinking, you know, 1006 01:10:58.680 --> 01:11:02.159 Like I was making the point like Bill Gates, I 1007 01:11:02.239 --> 01:11:06.439 guarantee you has a higher IQ than Muhammad, Promo, Napoleon 1008 01:11:06.520 --> 01:11:10.079 or Hitler. He's also like a total shithead. He's totally 1009 01:11:10.119 --> 01:11:13.880 devoid of any creativity and in somebody's the fucking idiots, 1010 01:11:14.479 --> 01:11:18.079 and like nobody is gonna die for Bill Gates. Okay, 1011 01:11:18.239 --> 01:11:20.880 I mean it's like, okay, great, Like there's some there's 1012 01:11:20.880 --> 01:11:23.279 some Chinese guy who'd like faint. Have you ever saw 1013 01:11:23.399 --> 01:11:25.760 like a girl naked and lives with his mommy and 1014 01:11:25.880 --> 01:11:28.720 he's got an IQ of like two hundred. Okay, that's awesome. 1015 01:11:29.439 --> 01:11:31.760 If I need somebody to do like math problems nobody 1016 01:11:31.800 --> 01:11:33.720 can do, I'll hire him to do that. But I 1017 01:11:33.840 --> 01:11:36.359 don't understand why I should give a fuck, you know, 1018 01:11:36.520 --> 01:11:40.840 Like it's basically you know what IQ is, man IQ 1019 01:11:41.159 --> 01:11:44.600 is a It's like it's it's cold war managerialism, whereby 1020 01:11:44.720 --> 01:11:48.279 it's like, look, we basically like like we need like 1021 01:11:48.399 --> 01:11:51.600 widget makers, and we need guys who manage the widget factory, 1022 01:11:51.920 --> 01:11:54.520 and we need some criteria where can identify people who 1023 01:11:54.600 --> 01:11:58.239 below a certain threshold are basically subnormal and useless. That's 1024 01:11:58.239 --> 01:12:01.640 what IQ is. It's not like, you know, oh, if 1025 01:12:01.640 --> 01:12:05.239 you're like Q was this high, you know, you're you're 1026 01:12:05.279 --> 01:12:07.920 you're gonna like lead like a revolution and conquer the 1027 01:12:07.960 --> 01:12:11.600 Arabian Peninsula. Or if like your iqes like within these parameters, 1028 01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:15.079 like you're Adolf Hitler or I mean, it's fucking retarded, 1029 01:12:15.199 --> 01:12:17.760 like it doesn't And I mean for people I've been 1030 01:12:17.800 --> 01:12:20.199 meaning someone vod Measy and sort of like that, and 1031 01:12:20.279 --> 01:12:25.199 it's like you're basically taking you're basically taking, uh, this 1032 01:12:25.399 --> 01:12:28.880 kind of ridiculous sort of like bureaucrats fetish from the 1033 01:12:28.920 --> 01:12:31.800 public school system and like deciding it's like some like 1034 01:12:31.920 --> 01:12:35.119 holy criteria, like and they don't even realize that's what 1035 01:12:35.119 --> 01:12:38.840 they're doing. So but yeah, we'll get into the substance 1036 01:12:38.880 --> 01:12:41.880 of what we need to talk about today. I uh, 1037 01:12:42.479 --> 01:12:48.199 I didn't mean to uh whip off about about tangents, 1038 01:12:48.239 --> 01:12:51.439 but I made the point before. You know, Hobsbam, he 1039 01:12:51.479 --> 01:12:54.359 talked a lot about the origins of nationalism, and to clarify, 1040 01:12:54.479 --> 01:12:56.920 because I don't want people jumping over my shit. We're 1041 01:12:57.000 --> 01:13:01.039 not talking about believing in one's knows. We're not talking 1042 01:13:01.079 --> 01:13:03.439 about caring about your race. We're not talking about any 1043 01:13:03.439 --> 01:13:06.319 of that. We're talking about this kind of like progressive 1044 01:13:06.479 --> 01:13:13.279 modernist like political modality, like organizing modality called nationalism, which 1045 01:13:13.319 --> 01:13:17.039 is the base of liberal idea. And it basically arbitrarily says, 1046 01:13:17.880 --> 01:13:20.880 you know, kind of the classical view of sovereignty, whether 1047 01:13:21.000 --> 01:13:24.800 it invests in like a royal dynasty, or whether it 1048 01:13:24.800 --> 01:13:29.000 invests in you know, you know, men who are kind 1049 01:13:29.000 --> 01:13:31.840 of like you know, for all parate parsons, an elected 1050 01:13:32.000 --> 01:13:35.319 king by the police in lieu with that, it says, 1051 01:13:35.520 --> 01:13:39.439 like all these people in this geographic area who happen 1052 01:13:39.520 --> 01:13:43.640 to have linguistic fluency, and like we've declared the national dialect. 1053 01:13:44.000 --> 01:13:47.159 You're part of this nation now, you know, it doesn't 1054 01:13:47.239 --> 01:13:50.119 matter what religion you are, It doesn't matter where your 1055 01:13:50.199 --> 01:13:54.479 loyalties lie in terms of things that supersede you know, 1056 01:13:54.800 --> 01:13:59.039 administrative politics. This is just like the French nation, or 1057 01:13:59.079 --> 01:14:03.000 this is the polar nation. And famously Hitler said that 1058 01:14:03.159 --> 01:14:06.600 was about the biggest obstacle to Germany being able to 1059 01:14:06.640 --> 01:14:10.279 project power on the world stage. As people internalize this 1060 01:14:10.439 --> 01:14:15.479 nonsense and it became this kind of like self defeating imperative, 1061 01:14:16.479 --> 01:14:22.079 like whereby people mired in this kind of alienated circumstance 1062 01:14:22.239 --> 01:14:27.000 wrought by industrial urban modernity. They kind of like clung 1063 01:14:27.079 --> 01:14:30.520 to this idea of like a nationalist like political model. 1064 01:14:30.760 --> 01:14:33.680 And again we're not talking about real like belief and 1065 01:14:33.720 --> 01:14:37.199 what's ethnos, We're talking about a contrivance, you know, and 1066 01:14:37.319 --> 01:14:40.960 the and it's also Habswam made the point and we're 1067 01:14:41.039 --> 01:14:45.319 so made the same point. Nationalism it based as individualistic. 1068 01:14:45.479 --> 01:14:48.560 It emerged as a liberal idea and entailed the notion 1069 01:14:48.680 --> 01:14:52.119 of Okay, here's this nation based on these arbitrary criteria. 1070 01:14:52.600 --> 01:14:55.079 They generally have to do with the ability to communicate 1071 01:14:55.359 --> 01:14:59.279 and mutual intelligibility. But it's made up in the estimation 1072 01:14:59.479 --> 01:15:04.920 of people who contrived the cityology of individual citizens, and 1073 01:15:05.079 --> 01:15:09.520 every individual is recognized by the nation, you know, as 1074 01:15:09.640 --> 01:15:14.800 as some kind of like sovereign decision maker unto himself, 1075 01:15:15.359 --> 01:15:18.359 like obviously the rubber meets the road, and nobody abides 1076 01:15:18.439 --> 01:15:21.960 that who's actually in power. But that's the theory, and 1077 01:15:22.039 --> 01:15:25.520 that's kind of like the moral mythology of it. You know, 1078 01:15:27.880 --> 01:15:31.439 this is extremely at odds with the past, you know, 1079 01:15:32.319 --> 01:15:36.319 where your responsibility was to your monarch or to the 1080 01:15:36.399 --> 01:15:40.880 local lord and above him and ultimately like to you know, 1081 01:15:41.199 --> 01:15:45.119 your your faith and the representatives of your confessional heritage 1082 01:15:46.000 --> 01:15:50.600 and your rights and privileges accrued from your profession or 1083 01:15:50.720 --> 01:15:54.399 from you know, the social and collective or corporate corporative 1084 01:15:54.479 --> 01:15:57.880 groups that you belong to. You know, the whole point 1085 01:15:57.920 --> 01:16:01.319 of nationalism is it tears all that you know, these 1086 01:16:01.399 --> 01:16:05.439 kind of natural ancient communitarian bonds. No no, no, that's 1087 01:16:05.439 --> 01:16:09.560 the illegitimate. Now you're just an individual, but you're part 1088 01:16:09.600 --> 01:16:12.439 of this body politic because you happen to speak French, 1089 01:16:12.880 --> 01:16:15.439 or you happen to speak Polish or like, you know, 1090 01:16:16.039 --> 01:16:19.000 you happen to be somebody who speaks like High German, 1091 01:16:19.119 --> 01:16:22.119 but you live in Belgium. Like that's that's what we're 1092 01:16:22.159 --> 01:16:25.239 talking about. That's what he was talking about, you know, 1093 01:16:25.439 --> 01:16:29.960 And that's Cobsbohmb's take, which was well placed, was that 1094 01:16:30.079 --> 01:16:33.920 conservatism is just it's just like it's just like liberal individualism. 1095 01:16:34.760 --> 01:16:38.760 That's basically a kind of class war against aristocracy by 1096 01:16:38.880 --> 01:16:43.199 like a thirsty and kind of covetist like capitalist class 1097 01:16:43.800 --> 01:16:47.520 go on to like discredit everything that came before, say no, no, no, 1098 01:16:48.000 --> 01:16:51.000 all these things that are important, you know, relating to 1099 01:16:51.119 --> 01:16:54.439 national identity, Like we're the ones who are the managers 1100 01:16:54.479 --> 01:16:58.920 those things. And you know, everybody's an individual, but you 1101 01:16:59.079 --> 01:17:02.840 need us to like guard these individual rights. Like that's 1102 01:17:03.199 --> 01:17:06.680 what nationalism is in the capital end sense. It's not 1103 01:17:06.880 --> 01:17:09.640 saying I don't live in multiculturalism. It's not saying I'm 1104 01:17:09.640 --> 01:17:12.520 proud to be white. It's not saying, you know, I 1105 01:17:13.319 --> 01:17:15.199 want my country to be owners and Catholic. There has 1106 01:17:15.239 --> 01:17:17.960 nothing to do with it. Nothing, And that's one of 1107 01:17:17.960 --> 01:17:21.560 the reasons why these quote unquote nationalist governments they like 1108 01:17:21.640 --> 01:17:24.760 never lead anything, you know, and the moment they go away, 1109 01:17:26.079 --> 01:17:29.600 you know what little kind of concessions there were. They 1110 01:17:29.720 --> 01:17:33.359 kind of preserving normalcy, just like evamplites because it's a 1111 01:17:33.760 --> 01:17:37.920 it's a house, it's a paper house, you know. And 1112 01:17:40.239 --> 01:17:44.720 Hobsbam was very big on what he called the Dual Revolution. 1113 01:17:45.039 --> 01:17:47.159 I mean, my fame was big on it. I mean 1114 01:17:47.239 --> 01:17:52.319 he identified he identified the dual Revolution as a historical 1115 01:17:52.399 --> 01:17:56.600 phenomenon that came to shape governmental imperatives and came to 1116 01:17:56.680 --> 01:18:01.840 kind of frame everything related to do you know, the 1117 01:18:01.920 --> 01:18:07.520 political sphere of activity, both you know, in theoretical capacities 1118 01:18:07.560 --> 01:18:10.399 as well as in terms of praxis and what actually developed, 1119 01:18:10.840 --> 01:18:14.079 Like what do you mean by the dual revolution specifically? 1120 01:18:14.199 --> 01:18:16.800 And as we got into before last time, and we're 1121 01:18:16.840 --> 01:18:20.439 talking about Hobbsbom's kind of like four value magnum opus, 1122 01:18:20.680 --> 01:18:22.640 you know, dealing with the age of the age of 1123 01:18:22.720 --> 01:18:30.000 revolution between seventeen eighty nine eighteen forty eight. How Slump's 1124 01:18:30.039 --> 01:18:33.279 take is that, Okay, you know, the jacob and Revolution 1125 01:18:33.439 --> 01:18:36.199 and all this kind of radicalism and all this all 1126 01:18:36.239 --> 01:18:39.840 this abchieval. You know, He's like that was inextricably bound 1127 01:18:40.000 --> 01:18:44.720 up with like technological and economic changes that they constituted 1128 01:18:44.720 --> 01:18:47.079 this kind of grand future shock, you know, really like 1129 01:18:47.119 --> 01:18:50.199 the first industry revolution. So is that you can't extricate 1130 01:18:50.279 --> 01:18:54.359 these things. You know that they're very Marxist len in 1131 01:18:54.439 --> 01:18:58.960 this view of it, but they're not wrong. You can't 1132 01:18:59.000 --> 01:19:03.000 really you can't really identify like what came first or 1133 01:19:03.039 --> 01:19:05.439 what was the Pride move on. It was both of 1134 01:19:05.520 --> 01:19:08.479 these things, you know, kind of like inextriguably tethered doing 1135 01:19:08.560 --> 01:19:15.199 another a combination of like dialectical process and conceptual activity 1136 01:19:15.840 --> 01:19:19.520 as well as you know, kind of the the binding 1137 01:19:19.680 --> 01:19:23.239 up of of economic imperatives with political life in a 1138 01:19:23.279 --> 01:19:30.479 way that hadn't happened before. So you know, these enlightenment ideas, 1139 01:19:30.680 --> 01:19:34.800 which on the one hand, are kind of hollow ideological phraseology, 1140 01:19:36.119 --> 01:19:39.079 these kinds of you know, democracy like but not real 1141 01:19:39.199 --> 01:19:46.000 democracy like you know, procedural procedural democracy like nationalism and liberalism. 1142 01:19:46.880 --> 01:19:50.000 This kind of stuff gained traction because people were getting 1143 01:19:50.119 --> 01:19:53.319 crushed by these new economic modalities that nobody knew how 1144 01:19:53.359 --> 01:19:58.560 to manage, you know, and old wealth was being wiped 1145 01:19:58.600 --> 01:20:04.880 out handover fists, you know, So there was charastrotic effects 1146 01:20:04.960 --> 01:20:08.359 to this. So like people looking for remedies, you know, 1147 01:20:09.359 --> 01:20:13.039 they were uniquely susceptible to this kind of thought. But 1148 01:20:13.159 --> 01:20:16.119 they also people develop these kinds of ideas based on 1149 01:20:16.520 --> 01:20:19.479 these disruptions, you know, because they were kind of ripped 1150 01:20:19.520 --> 01:20:25.479 out of environs where they had meaningful reference points beyond 1151 01:20:25.560 --> 01:20:29.600 their own lives, you know, and uh, people's lives are 1152 01:20:29.640 --> 01:20:35.279 comparatively short then, you know. And so this this this 1153 01:20:35.439 --> 01:20:40.439 kind of taken together, this developed its own momentum. It 1154 01:20:40.520 --> 01:20:43.880 was like both a process and an animating principle as 1155 01:20:43.920 --> 01:20:49.119 well as uh, you know, like a key like framing 1156 01:20:50.880 --> 01:21:00.399 a key framing device of of of the zeitgeist. You know, now, 1157 01:21:01.159 --> 01:21:05.760 when the French Revolution was defeated, you know, and and 1158 01:21:06.000 --> 01:21:09.680 particularly after you know, Waterloo, I mean because Napoleon, Uh, 1159 01:21:11.920 --> 01:21:15.079 Napoleon was a lot like Cromwell and a lot like Hitler. 1160 01:21:17.720 --> 01:21:20.479 I agree with Russell Stoffley. I think Hitler was more 1161 01:21:20.560 --> 01:21:25.399 like Mohammad than he was anybody. But and Napoleon didn't 1162 01:21:25.479 --> 01:21:31.239 have that messianic uh sensibility. I'm talking in political terms, 1163 01:21:31.319 --> 01:21:37.119 not in like theological ones. But what happened in the 1164 01:21:37.439 --> 01:21:39.760 I mean, what happened in the Reign of Terror and 1165 01:21:39.800 --> 01:21:44.199 what happened in the aftermath when Napoleon literally trying to 1166 01:21:44.319 --> 01:21:49.560 conquer the continent and you know, become Emperor of Europa. 1167 01:21:52.039 --> 01:21:56.520 The view from what remained, like the royal courts in Europe, 1168 01:21:57.840 --> 01:22:00.239 and the view from kind of like the nas and 1169 01:22:01.039 --> 01:22:06.720 political managerial class was this can never ever happen again. Okay, 1170 01:22:08.479 --> 01:22:13.079 So the Congress of Vienna Metternich kind of first and 1171 01:22:13.199 --> 01:22:17.399 foremost among this type, you know, kind of like the 1172 01:22:17.479 --> 01:22:21.319 whole raison deetra of state craft became like balance of power, 1173 01:22:22.279 --> 01:22:27.439 you know e. Michael Jones makes the point that all 1174 01:22:27.560 --> 01:22:32.840 rationalist perspectives partake in some way of like Newtonian physics, 1175 01:22:33.399 --> 01:22:35.920 you know, this kind of like perfect balance of like 1176 01:22:36.119 --> 01:22:40.079 dynamic but totally controlled motion. It's more complicated than that. 1177 01:22:40.239 --> 01:22:42.159 And Jones is its own as a very like punitive 1178 01:22:42.239 --> 01:22:43.920 view of like Newton. I don't want to get into that, 1179 01:22:45.520 --> 01:22:50.199 but he's right about what I just indicated, okay. And 1180 01:22:50.439 --> 01:22:55.279 balance of power politics, that's where it comes from, okay, 1181 01:22:56.479 --> 01:22:59.199 And that's why it's misguided when a lot of these 1182 01:22:59.279 --> 01:23:03.039 people it's kind of like the mantra of the Midwidth 1183 01:23:03.079 --> 01:23:08.199 that oh, Churchill wasn't crazy, and Churchill wasn't totally corrupted, 1184 01:23:09.840 --> 01:23:14.560 you know, by alien interests. He was just trying to 1185 01:23:14.640 --> 01:23:18.039 maintain the balance of power and no European power can 1186 01:23:18.119 --> 01:23:20.720 become too strong. That's not at all what he was doing. 1187 01:23:21.520 --> 01:23:25.359 And that was obsolete anyway by the twentieth century. That 1188 01:23:25.479 --> 01:23:29.000 got shot to pieces in nineteen fourteen, and nobody thought 1189 01:23:29.039 --> 01:23:32.560 that way anymore, okay. And that's why the reasons why 1190 01:23:32.600 --> 01:23:35.239 it was apocalyptic thinking came about in the twentieth century 1191 01:23:35.680 --> 01:23:40.600 because what had been the return to like rationalist normalcy 1192 01:23:41.359 --> 01:23:44.399 that died in the trenches along with millions of guys 1193 01:23:44.439 --> 01:23:47.000 who got blown to bits. It died like buried beneath 1194 01:23:47.119 --> 01:23:49.479 like the mud and shit and all of their body parts. 1195 01:23:49.760 --> 01:23:53.960 Nobody thought that way, and that's not what Churchill was doing. 1196 01:23:54.560 --> 01:23:56.840 And even if it was, that's that that be a 1197 01:23:56.960 --> 01:24:01.399 ridiculous mission to take on in nineteen thirty nine. It 1198 01:24:01.399 --> 01:24:08.680 would make no sense. But that's the uh, that's the 1199 01:24:08.800 --> 01:24:12.800 source of this kind of like reactionary stance. And Hoswam 1200 01:24:12.920 --> 01:24:17.159 calls it reactionary equals the Matrinage perspective reactionary because it's 1201 01:24:17.239 --> 01:24:22.359 not truly conservative. It's literally a reaction. It's saying, how 1202 01:24:22.439 --> 01:24:25.760 do we deal with future shock? How do we deal 1203 01:24:25.880 --> 01:24:30.880 with the disruption of this kind of like rational balancing 1204 01:24:31.199 --> 01:24:36.640 of furies? How do we restore something manageable and something 1205 01:24:36.760 --> 01:24:40.119 that is primarily governed by reason? You know, here is 1206 01:24:40.199 --> 01:24:43.399 how we do it. We do it by like managing power, 1207 01:24:44.079 --> 01:24:46.960 you know, like it's some kind of like it like 1208 01:24:47.000 --> 01:24:49.640 it's some kind of quantity of energy you know that 1209 01:24:49.720 --> 01:24:52.439 can be like redirected and or kind of purpose towards 1210 01:24:52.520 --> 01:24:55.760 this or you know, almost like an engineering problem. Okay, 1211 01:24:56.760 --> 01:25:01.640 that's that's what is meant by reactionary, because it wasn't nobody, 1212 01:25:01.800 --> 01:25:04.479 not Metterniche, not the people in the Congress at Vienna, 1213 01:25:04.680 --> 01:25:09.520 not not you know, not the people who later opposed 1214 01:25:09.520 --> 01:25:12.640 the eighteen forty eight revolutions. Nobody was saying, we're gonna 1215 01:25:12.680 --> 01:25:15.439 go back to having you know, like a king holds 1216 01:25:15.600 --> 01:25:18.640 absolute sovereignty. Nobody was saying, we're gonna go back to 1217 01:25:18.680 --> 01:25:20.880 you know, the pope being the true like Emperor of 1218 01:25:20.960 --> 01:25:25.239 Europe is God's emissary. Nobody was saying that. It wasn't 1219 01:25:25.279 --> 01:25:28.560 even they would have like scoffed at that prospect, but 1220 01:25:28.720 --> 01:25:30.359 it wasn't even within their contemplation. 1221 01:25:31.119 --> 01:25:31.279 You know. 1222 01:25:31.399 --> 01:25:34.000 It was a reaction, okay, and the fact that it 1223 01:25:34.199 --> 01:25:38.640 had some trappings of what came before that really had 1224 01:25:38.720 --> 01:25:42.560 more to do with an interest in stability moving forward 1225 01:25:43.359 --> 01:25:47.720 and like Enlightenment ideology, conceptual biases than it did with 1226 01:25:47.800 --> 01:25:50.239 any like, oh, we gotta guard tradition and we got 1227 01:25:50.319 --> 01:25:54.600 to guard like the organic basis of national life or 1228 01:25:55.119 --> 01:25:57.600 so this is really important. Okay. This is one of 1229 01:25:57.640 --> 01:26:01.600 the reasons I cite Hosba because conservative are not traditionalists. 1230 01:26:01.920 --> 01:26:05.319 They're not trying to like preserve like the integrity of 1231 01:26:05.439 --> 01:26:08.039 your race, if that's important to you or whatever. They're 1232 01:26:08.079 --> 01:26:10.359 not trying to that. They're not they're not trying to 1233 01:26:10.520 --> 01:26:13.399 undo modernity. They're not trying to I mean, I'm not 1234 01:26:13.439 --> 01:26:15.239 even saying that's good, but that they're not doing that. 1235 01:26:15.960 --> 01:26:19.199 You know, they're they're they're they're arch modernists. They're arch 1236 01:26:19.279 --> 01:26:23.600 modernist liberals who are trying to manage revolutionary imperatives and 1237 01:26:23.720 --> 01:26:26.319 stop them from happening. Whether they're from the left or 1238 01:26:26.319 --> 01:26:28.920 whether they're from the right, you know, no matter where 1239 01:26:28.960 --> 01:26:32.039 they come from, that is their notion. That's why conservatism 1240 01:26:32.239 --> 01:26:37.439 is bullshit, you know. And this is uh, you know again, 1241 01:26:37.560 --> 01:26:40.880 that's if people, I know, not everybody wants to sit 1242 01:26:40.920 --> 01:26:45.960 around reading politable theory like I do. But it's like, okay, 1243 01:26:46.760 --> 01:26:48.800 this is why you should beat Hobsbaum just as like 1244 01:26:48.840 --> 01:26:53.079 an educated partisan, Okay, because he's right about those things, 1245 01:26:53.840 --> 01:26:58.399 like his conclusions in terms of like applied UH efforts 1246 01:26:59.319 --> 01:27:03.000 and his conclusions in terms of what's desirable are wrong, 1247 01:27:03.720 --> 01:27:09.560 but his diagnostic process isn't wrong, and his observations aren't wrong. 1248 01:27:09.840 --> 01:27:17.920 They're generally correct, you know. And again the Marxist over 1249 01:27:18.039 --> 01:27:18.800 emphasize this. 1250 01:27:19.119 --> 01:27:21.279 But you know, the degree and. 1251 01:27:23.319 --> 01:27:27.680 The degree to which suddenly production got taken out of 1252 01:27:28.720 --> 01:27:32.600 like a communitarian shop or like your household, to go 1253 01:27:32.720 --> 01:27:35.920 from being like I'm a farmer and you know, I'm 1254 01:27:35.960 --> 01:27:39.000 a subsistence farmer, but I have enough surplus to trade 1255 01:27:39.039 --> 01:27:42.399 with other farmers. Or going from being like a blacksmith 1256 01:27:42.439 --> 01:27:44.399 where you're part of some collective with like three other 1257 01:27:44.520 --> 01:27:48.119 guys and you like make stuff people need, getting ripped 1258 01:27:48.159 --> 01:27:51.479 out of that and going to work in a factory 1259 01:27:51.680 --> 01:27:55.159 where you're literally pulling a lever or like manhandling some 1260 01:27:55.359 --> 01:28:01.199 dangerous machine for ten hours a day. That's probably that's 1261 01:28:01.199 --> 01:28:04.000 about the most disrupted thing that's ever happened to people 1262 01:28:04.119 --> 01:28:08.119 at scale, you know. And it's and on top of 1263 01:28:08.199 --> 01:28:12.600 that too, the introduction of money at scale, like anything, 1264 01:28:13.000 --> 01:28:18.239 all all indicators of wealth that for forty thousand years 1265 01:28:18.520 --> 01:28:21.560 quite literally like people were habituated to no no, no, 1266 01:28:21.640 --> 01:28:24.399 no no. Now you get a paper certificate and it's 1267 01:28:24.439 --> 01:28:27.439 fungible and you can find somebody who like has stuff 1268 01:28:27.479 --> 01:28:30.920 you need, they'll accept that this is this is insane. 1269 01:28:31.479 --> 01:28:37.119 This is totally insane, you know. And it took decades 1270 01:28:37.199 --> 01:28:40.600 for people to adapt to that, you know. And it 1271 01:28:40.680 --> 01:28:43.319 really wasn't until people born in the nineteen twenties and 1272 01:28:43.399 --> 01:28:46.520 thirties were totally habituated to that. But it took that long, 1273 01:28:47.399 --> 01:28:51.800 you know. So the degree to which this disrupted everything 1274 01:28:51.920 --> 01:28:57.439 that everybody had taken for granted, and you know, just 1275 01:28:57.600 --> 01:29:03.039 created unmanageable conditions. You know, I mean think about too, 1276 01:29:03.279 --> 01:29:06.520 like trying to manage economic imperatives. I'm not even talking 1277 01:29:06.560 --> 01:29:09.119 about a planned economy. I'm saying just being able to 1278 01:29:09.199 --> 01:29:13.039 balance the proverbial like a Ledger books, there's a factory 1279 01:29:13.119 --> 01:29:16.680 that employs twenty thousand people. I'm using a pencil and 1280 01:29:16.800 --> 01:29:19.239 paper and an advocates to try and figure out, like 1281 01:29:19.800 --> 01:29:23.199 what our outlays are, like what we need to produce 1282 01:29:23.319 --> 01:29:26.640 to be profitable, like what we need, how much we 1283 01:29:26.720 --> 01:29:30.039 need to earn to like stay afloat, like what debts 1284 01:29:30.079 --> 01:29:33.439 we owe to who? At some point that's going to 1285 01:29:33.520 --> 01:29:36.319 collapse on itself and people are gonna starve. And then 1286 01:29:36.479 --> 01:29:42.560 happened over and over and over again, and most punctuatedly, 1287 01:29:42.640 --> 01:29:46.039 it happened in a great depression. And it wasn't because 1288 01:29:46.039 --> 01:29:48.880 of like bankers or whatever like von Meesian's think. It 1289 01:29:48.960 --> 01:29:51.319 was because of what I just said. That could never 1290 01:29:51.479 --> 01:29:56.560 happen now because it's been rubberized, because data management now 1291 01:29:56.760 --> 01:29:59.800 it's as simple as turning on a machine. Now that's 1292 01:29:59.840 --> 01:30:03.479 an incredibly corrupt people make half with that wealth is 1293 01:30:03.520 --> 01:30:07.479 wiped out owing to malfeasans in greed. But there's not 1294 01:30:07.600 --> 01:30:09.479 gonna be like the stock market is not going to 1295 01:30:09.640 --> 01:30:13.680 plummet five thousand points because of some like air because 1296 01:30:13.680 --> 01:30:16.960 of like some accounting error at scale, or because of 1297 01:30:17.079 --> 01:30:19.520 like a lack of situational awareness that has like a 1298 01:30:19.640 --> 01:30:25.159 catastrophic impact that could never happen again. Okay, so when 1299 01:30:25.199 --> 01:30:28.880 people talk about that, that's stupid. But this was like 1300 01:30:28.920 --> 01:30:33.880 an everyday reality really from like the close of the 1301 01:30:33.920 --> 01:30:38.239 eighteenth century until like like really until like the nineteen seventies, 1302 01:30:39.079 --> 01:30:41.359 you know what I mean. It's uh so basically people 1303 01:30:41.399 --> 01:30:43.359 were like costing on the precipice of some kind of 1304 01:30:43.399 --> 01:30:48.560 like disaster, you know. And that's why people became communists, 1305 01:30:48.600 --> 01:30:51.399 like the man in the street, and that's why guys 1306 01:30:51.439 --> 01:30:55.279 like Ernst Tollman, who's kind of the consummate like like 1307 01:30:55.640 --> 01:30:59.680 uh like aryan German like Burger type, Like that's why 1308 01:30:59.800 --> 01:31:03.079 though those guys like fact like like like factory floridais 1309 01:31:03.119 --> 01:31:08.439 being communists like communist I theology and it's it's foundation 1310 01:31:08.640 --> 01:31:12.600 and like a Jewish revolutionary spirit or like sectarian antipathy 1311 01:31:13.359 --> 01:31:17.760 or like ethnosectarian hostility, like yes, that at at scale 1312 01:31:18.000 --> 01:31:23.000 of at dialectical scale and process, like yes, that is 1313 01:31:23.039 --> 01:31:25.479 where it comes from. But where the rubber meets to 1314 01:31:25.520 --> 01:31:28.399 the road. What I just said is why it became this. 1315 01:31:29.680 --> 01:31:33.560 There's there's animating imperative that swept up millions and millions 1316 01:31:33.600 --> 01:31:36.520 of people. Like that's why. You know, now it's a 1317 01:31:36.600 --> 01:31:39.880 bit different. There's other reasons why. I mean, it would 1318 01:31:39.880 --> 01:31:41.960 never become a mass movement again, you know, even though 1319 01:31:42.239 --> 01:31:46.399 when I say that like Marxist Leninism or like it's 1320 01:31:46.680 --> 01:31:50.359 it's dialectically altered variant. When I say that it like 1321 01:31:50.520 --> 01:31:52.800 enjoyed something of resurgence, I mean like in terms of 1322 01:31:52.840 --> 01:31:57.000 like fringe elements, okay, and there's like a small, very 1323 01:31:57.079 --> 01:32:00.359 small and absolute terms like vanguard of those guys or 1324 01:32:00.439 --> 01:32:02.920 somewhat impressive and kind of had their shit together and 1325 01:32:03.039 --> 01:32:06.119 moving forward like this century. They were probably able to 1326 01:32:06.199 --> 01:32:09.279 carve out some semi sovereign space as locally, but were 1327 01:32:09.359 --> 01:32:11.399 small and scale. But that's what I mean. I don't 1328 01:32:11.439 --> 01:32:13.439 mean that like, oh, this is resurgent and there'd be 1329 01:32:13.640 --> 01:32:17.760 like some sort of highly scaled variant of this again. 1330 01:32:17.920 --> 01:32:23.680 But one second, but Hosbo. I'm also like moving on 1331 01:32:23.800 --> 01:32:30.600 a bit. You know, all these things this basic a storicism. 1332 01:32:34.119 --> 01:32:36.239 This is kind of what this is kind of what 1333 01:32:36.399 --> 01:32:41.039 separated Hoswoon from the schismatics, Like initially, okay, because there 1334 01:32:41.079 --> 01:32:44.680 were always schismatics. I mean, the sixty eight ers were 1335 01:32:44.800 --> 01:32:48.319 basically the ideological descendants of Trotsky, even if a lot 1336 01:32:48.319 --> 01:32:50.439 of them were just kind of bandwagoning, I didn't realize 1337 01:32:50.520 --> 01:32:53.560 that's what they were, you know, at the cadre level 1338 01:32:53.680 --> 01:33:00.479 of of the leadership element. That's what they were about, 1339 01:33:00.760 --> 01:33:09.920 you know. And uh, this is important, and you Hosbom 1340 01:33:11.239 --> 01:33:17.520 his later his later output especially, and you know, after 1341 01:33:17.600 --> 01:33:20.000 people are about forty or fifty, they don't like really 1342 01:33:20.079 --> 01:33:24.640 radically change their viewpoint. That's what I mean in a 1343 01:33:24.680 --> 01:33:29.640 moment in condext But Hosbom uh his later output in 1344 01:33:29.840 --> 01:33:32.479 like especially in the nineteen nineties, it dealt a lot 1345 01:33:32.560 --> 01:33:35.760 with what he perceived is like cultural decadence, like the 1346 01:33:36.479 --> 01:33:41.039 kind of corruption of social democracy, the intellectual and moral 1347 01:33:41.119 --> 01:33:44.239 poverty of the new left. You know, the ability of 1348 01:33:44.359 --> 01:33:50.159 capitalism as he perceived it, to resist historical processes and 1349 01:33:50.319 --> 01:33:55.239 endoor beyond. In his estimation, it's what should have been, 1350 01:33:55.279 --> 01:34:00.159 it's kind of viable. It's sort of viable life as 1351 01:34:00.159 --> 01:34:03.720 a conceptual model. So people kind of said, like, oh, 1352 01:34:03.800 --> 01:34:06.039 Haw's w again, the second bittered old guy after the 1353 01:34:06.119 --> 01:34:08.199 Cold War. It'saying, No, I don't. I don't believe that 1354 01:34:08.359 --> 01:34:11.199 he always thought this, But it would have been pointless 1355 01:34:11.279 --> 01:34:13.600 to kind of bandy that, like during the Cold War, 1356 01:34:13.840 --> 01:34:16.239 there was just there just wouldn't have been a context 1357 01:34:16.319 --> 01:34:19.439 and it would have gone without saying. And also even 1358 01:34:20.560 --> 01:34:23.720 much as uh like the orthodox left, you know, the 1359 01:34:23.800 --> 01:34:27.520 pro Soviet Left, much as they kind of despised the schismatics, 1360 01:34:28.079 --> 01:34:30.199 I mean they they were they were literally at war 1361 01:34:30.439 --> 01:34:35.039 with America and NATO, and it's a Jason Elements. They weren't. 1362 01:34:35.119 --> 01:34:37.880 They weren't gonna pick like some sectarian fight with a 1363 01:34:37.880 --> 01:34:40.199 bunch of sixty eight ers who were like voting in 1364 01:34:40.359 --> 01:34:44.840 like the sweetest Green Party. When you know there's there's 1365 01:34:44.840 --> 01:34:46.680 a good possibility at some point there's gonna be a 1366 01:34:46.760 --> 01:34:47.920 nuclear war with their ops. 1367 01:34:47.960 --> 01:34:48.199 They're not. 1368 01:34:48.680 --> 01:34:51.680 That was just was not even within their contemplation. But 1369 01:34:53.399 --> 01:34:56.640 in uh, in the early nineties, Hosbon dropped a book 1370 01:34:56.880 --> 01:34:58.680 that's I think this might have been as I should 1371 01:34:58.720 --> 01:35:00.840 know this, I think this was his last. He wrote 1372 01:35:00.960 --> 01:35:02.640 essays something only, but I think this is his last, 1373 01:35:02.840 --> 01:35:07.560 like like published book. It was called The Age of Extremes, 1374 01:35:07.800 --> 01:35:11.960 The Short Century, The Short Century nineteen fourteen to nineteen 1375 01:35:12.039 --> 01:35:16.359 ninety one identify at the end of the Short Century 1376 01:35:16.399 --> 01:35:18.760 as nineteen eighty nine. Hobbs what nineteen ninety one with 1377 01:35:18.800 --> 01:35:21.279 the formal dissolution of the Soviet Union, So over clarity, 1378 01:35:21.359 --> 01:35:27.039 that's what he meant. But he kind of on popular 1379 01:35:27.199 --> 01:35:30.359 culture a lot, you know, and he said, look, he's 1380 01:35:30.359 --> 01:35:34.520 like in the sixties popular culture totally changed. He was 1381 01:35:34.560 --> 01:35:37.800 like before that. He's like the kind of pop culture icons, 1382 01:35:37.840 --> 01:35:39.720 whether they were talking about like pet Boone, or they 1383 01:35:39.760 --> 01:35:43.439 were talking about John Wayne, or whether they were talking 1384 01:35:43.439 --> 01:35:49.560 about somebody like even even somebody like Steve McQueen or 1385 01:35:51.840 --> 01:35:55.039 or some of these guys. You know, they they might 1386 01:35:55.119 --> 01:35:59.359 have represented kind of adalized vision of Americana, but he's 1387 01:35:59.479 --> 01:36:01.920 like just and he's and those very deliberate and there's 1388 01:36:01.960 --> 01:36:04.600 something very corporate about that. But at the same time, 1389 01:36:05.119 --> 01:36:08.640 these kinds of figures and these motifs, they basically mirrored 1390 01:36:08.760 --> 01:36:10.960 the way that like people had always kind of thought, 1391 01:36:11.439 --> 01:36:14.439 you know, like simple minds that maybe to some people. 1392 01:36:15.319 --> 01:36:19.640 You know, in the nineteen sixties, the kind of like 1393 01:36:19.880 --> 01:36:23.680 rock star identity, which don't get me wrong, had always 1394 01:36:25.079 --> 01:36:26.880 you know, uh, there is a lot of like old 1395 01:36:27.119 --> 01:36:29.600 rock and blues guys would always talk about selling your 1396 01:36:29.640 --> 01:36:32.399 soul to the devil because guys in that life did 1397 01:36:32.560 --> 01:36:35.720 die young and they ended up and totally fucked up circumstances. 1398 01:36:35.920 --> 01:36:37.800 But kind of like the mass murdering of this to 1399 01:36:37.960 --> 01:36:41.920 like Bougie's and like and Lanes. You know, he had 1400 01:36:41.960 --> 01:36:47.079 tonified like Janis Joppelin, Brian Jones, Bob Marley, you know, 1401 01:36:47.439 --> 01:36:51.439 and all and all this kind of hippie garbage. You know, 1402 01:36:51.520 --> 01:36:54.079 He's like, Okay, these people weren't just viewed as pop 1403 01:36:54.199 --> 01:36:58.319 culture figures. Like people decided these these people stood in 1404 01:36:58.520 --> 01:37:01.319 for like literal cultural icon. You know. Thus you have 1405 01:37:01.439 --> 01:37:03.640 like the kind of like stereotypical like boomer idiot or 1406 01:37:03.680 --> 01:37:06.600 things like the Beatles are like uttering like like sacred 1407 01:37:06.720 --> 01:37:11.119 truths or something. You know, like and this idea that 1408 01:37:11.600 --> 01:37:15.479 being old is bad. You know, life is horrible after 1409 01:37:15.479 --> 01:37:20.399 you're like twenty eight or thirty. You know, uh, there's 1410 01:37:20.479 --> 01:37:24.520 something glorious about not getting beyond that stage and like 1411 01:37:24.720 --> 01:37:28.199 dying from partying, you know, Cosmon view was like, Okay, 1412 01:37:28.239 --> 01:37:29.760 first of all, this is a way of kind of 1413 01:37:29.800 --> 01:37:32.880 like dumbing people down, and it's it's a way of 1414 01:37:32.960 --> 01:37:36.880 kind of like capitalism artificially sustaining itself by selling this 1415 01:37:37.000 --> 01:37:40.079 kind of like lifestyle image that's pretending to be radical 1416 01:37:40.319 --> 01:37:43.560 or pretending to be like at odds of what came before, 1417 01:37:43.960 --> 01:37:46.800 and it is, but not in you know, the post 1418 01:37:46.840 --> 01:37:48.119 seventeen eighty nine sense. 1419 01:37:48.920 --> 01:37:49.079 You know. 1420 01:37:49.199 --> 01:37:51.960 He said that like this basically, this kind of passive 1421 01:37:52.039 --> 01:37:55.760 nihilism turns any turns everybody you know, basically into sort 1422 01:37:55.800 --> 01:38:00.960 of like a comatose like consumer, you know, and it's 1423 01:38:01.000 --> 01:38:04.000 kind of contempt for older people. He's like, you know, 1424 01:38:04.880 --> 01:38:07.359 if you're gonna say that like everything is shit basically 1425 01:38:07.399 --> 01:38:09.920 after you're not ruled by your hormones, and I don't 1426 01:38:10.279 --> 01:38:12.239 I don't have content for young people, and I don't 1427 01:38:12.239 --> 01:38:14.479 think Osmon did either. But he's saying this kind of 1428 01:38:14.560 --> 01:38:17.560 caricature a youth that was presented, you know, by like 1429 01:38:17.720 --> 01:38:22.319 capitalist media. In his estimation. You know, he's like, basically, 1430 01:38:22.359 --> 01:38:25.920 you're saying that anyone who has lived long enough, they're 1431 01:38:25.920 --> 01:38:30.479 gonna develop like an evolved in view of what of 1432 01:38:30.560 --> 01:38:33.520 the system we live under and scale they're bad or 1433 01:38:33.560 --> 01:38:35.680 they're like the police, or they're trying to tell you 1434 01:38:35.840 --> 01:38:38.600 to do things you don't want to do. So it's 1435 01:38:38.640 --> 01:38:42.079 kind of just like deliberate dumbing down under auspices of rebellion. 1436 01:38:42.840 --> 01:38:46.039 And that's insightful because that really is true. And this 1437 01:38:46.199 --> 01:38:49.880 kind of weird preaching. You know, he's like Rocketbelly guys 1438 01:38:49.960 --> 01:38:56.960 like Eddie Cochrane, like Elvis, like Buddy Holly, like uh 1439 01:38:59.079 --> 01:39:02.520 you know, like like like like Richie Valens. These guys 1440 01:39:02.560 --> 01:39:05.359 weren't trying to sell people on some lifestyle. You know, 1441 01:39:05.439 --> 01:39:07.760 they were like poor. They were poor redneck guys in 1442 01:39:07.840 --> 01:39:10.720 balance case, you know, you're poor, like East La Spanish guys, 1443 01:39:11.680 --> 01:39:14.079 you know, and there was a real like energy there. 1444 01:39:14.640 --> 01:39:16.880 They had kind of a dark side that was exemplified 1445 01:39:16.880 --> 01:39:20.520 by people like stark Weather, I mean unfortunately, but these 1446 01:39:20.560 --> 01:39:23.800 guys were never going out like preaching some weird sociology 1447 01:39:23.840 --> 01:39:26.079 of people that wouldn't even occurred to them because that's 1448 01:39:27.000 --> 01:39:30.279 not what musicians do. Like the fact that this became 1449 01:39:30.399 --> 01:39:35.640 part of the package in Hobswam's view, that was totally ideological. 1450 01:39:36.199 --> 01:39:38.119 You know, that was not some accident that wasn't just 1451 01:39:38.159 --> 01:39:41.520 people nitting with the zeitgeist. It wasn't just some kind 1452 01:39:41.560 --> 01:39:45.520 of weird feedback loop owing to sort of like the 1453 01:39:45.600 --> 01:39:50.039 integration and narratives because of TV. No, this was very deliberate, 1454 01:39:50.680 --> 01:39:56.520 you know, And so in his view, in his view, 1455 01:39:56.640 --> 01:39:59.840 like basically American pop culture from about nineteen sixty four 1456 01:40:00.039 --> 01:40:03.159 sixty five to like the then president, which was like 1457 01:40:03.239 --> 01:40:05.600 nineteen ninety three when he wrote this, he's like, this 1458 01:40:05.720 --> 01:40:09.600 is basically capitalist propaganda, you know, and you obviously in 1459 01:40:09.760 --> 01:40:12.680 our view it's social engineering, and hobbs on Baby pictually 1460 01:40:12.760 --> 01:40:16.159 care about that on its own terms. But again he 1461 01:40:16.239 --> 01:40:18.880 opposed that stuff because he's like, this is basically trying 1462 01:40:18.880 --> 01:40:21.159 to get you drunk on sex or taking drugs or 1463 01:40:21.680 --> 01:40:25.399 like cloud chasing, so that you basically never mature in 1464 01:40:25.560 --> 01:40:29.239 like a rational adult and you never contemplate like why 1465 01:40:29.279 --> 01:40:31.720 you're in the condition you're in, and you never contemplate 1466 01:40:32.520 --> 01:40:36.199 like why there's not like any economic justice in his view, 1467 01:40:38.079 --> 01:40:40.199 you know, and again it's these conclusions really have nothing 1468 01:40:40.279 --> 01:40:43.760 to do with our perspective. But the process he describes 1469 01:40:43.880 --> 01:40:48.119 and what these what this sort of like pop cultural 1470 01:40:48.319 --> 01:40:53.199 uh product represents, Like he is right about that or 1471 01:40:53.239 --> 01:40:56.359 he wasn't right about that, you know, and he and 1472 01:40:56.439 --> 01:41:01.760 he said this stuff had like real he said, he 1473 01:41:01.800 --> 01:41:04.920 said that the true like he said that was truly 1474 01:41:05.000 --> 01:41:08.680 different about this, this sort of this sort of propaganda's 1475 01:41:08.720 --> 01:41:12.680 pop culture is threefold. You know, He's like, first, he's like, 1476 01:41:13.119 --> 01:41:15.840 youth was always seen, even even in cultures that like 1477 01:41:15.920 --> 01:41:18.439 revered youth are you're talking about like classical Greece or 1478 01:41:18.520 --> 01:41:21.159 the Third Reich or even like going Soviet Union, it 1479 01:41:21.319 --> 01:41:24.000 was still views like a preparatory stage for adulthood in 1480 01:41:24.119 --> 01:41:27.640 some sense. As you know, youth is important. The youth 1481 01:41:27.680 --> 01:41:29.840 are vigorous. We need them to protect us, to fight 1482 01:41:29.920 --> 01:41:33.359 our wars, to you know, develop passionate ideas that they 1483 01:41:33.399 --> 01:41:37.680 can later build upon and innovate. But you know, this 1484 01:41:37.800 --> 01:41:41.560 is important because it's a critical stage for it's the 1485 01:41:41.640 --> 01:41:45.399 final phase of full human development that that all was 1486 01:41:45.479 --> 01:41:47.439 like done away with. It's like, no, youth is some 1487 01:41:47.640 --> 01:41:51.720 end in itself being old as shit, you know, being 1488 01:41:52.000 --> 01:41:54.920 a young being a teenager or a young person, that 1489 01:41:55.119 --> 01:41:58.880 is the zenith of life, and your life is miserable 1490 01:41:58.920 --> 01:42:00.880 after that. So you've got to try and hang on 1491 01:42:01.000 --> 01:42:03.680 to those aspects as much as you can, whether it's 1492 01:42:03.720 --> 01:42:07.039 through taking drugs or like you know, including hormones. Whether 1493 01:42:07.079 --> 01:42:09.159 it's like refusing to get married so you can like 1494 01:42:09.239 --> 01:42:11.720 have sex a lot of girls, whether it's you know, 1495 01:42:12.359 --> 01:42:17.399 refusing to behave in a responsible way, whether it's you know, 1496 01:42:17.479 --> 01:42:21.079 refusing to take on a real political perspective because that's like, oh, 1497 01:42:21.199 --> 01:42:24.920 that's like you know, that's that square stuff. This all 1498 01:42:25.319 --> 01:42:27.760 is very deliberate, and this is very this is an 1499 01:42:27.800 --> 01:42:31.600 odds basy with every human culture that ever existed. Secondly, 1500 01:42:33.439 --> 01:42:36.399 it became dominant in market economy. It's like every single 1501 01:42:36.479 --> 01:42:38.720 one of them. It's not just like in America or 1502 01:42:38.800 --> 01:42:42.159 in the UK there's this weird kind of youth obsessed 1503 01:42:42.239 --> 01:42:45.119 tendency owing to kind of the population boom at World 1504 01:42:45.119 --> 01:42:49.399 War two. No, this happened like everywhere that America like 1505 01:42:50.079 --> 01:42:52.439 was able to like plant its footprint. You know, they're 1506 01:42:52.439 --> 01:42:54.720 talking about Japan with you know, India, whether you're talking 1507 01:42:54.760 --> 01:42:58.840 about you know, France, whether you're talking about you know 1508 01:42:59.560 --> 01:43:02.520 the then you know East Block formerly his Block that 1509 01:43:02.600 --> 01:43:04.800 was like opening up. But you're talking about Finland, where 1510 01:43:04.800 --> 01:43:08.199 they talk about you know, Latin America that they can't 1511 01:43:08.319 --> 01:43:15.560 just be like some spontaneous homogenization. Okay, like uh, pop 1512 01:43:15.640 --> 01:43:18.760 colog doesn't just developed this kind of like homogeneous ideological 1513 01:43:18.800 --> 01:43:23.079 imperative just by complete accidents, especially like pre internet that 1514 01:43:23.199 --> 01:43:29.119 was that was laughable. And the third thing you identified 1515 01:43:29.479 --> 01:43:32.000 was that it became truly international in a way that 1516 01:43:32.159 --> 01:43:34.479 didn't really make sense. You know. He's like if you 1517 01:43:34.560 --> 01:43:37.279 take stuff like the Beatles, or if you take stuff 1518 01:43:37.479 --> 01:43:40.199 uh you know, like some of these movies that like 1519 01:43:40.680 --> 01:43:44.159 pop so much on the production code got done away with, 1520 01:43:44.319 --> 01:43:46.119 like the graduate. A lot of times the stuff wasn't 1521 01:43:46.119 --> 01:43:49.119 even translated, Like people don't even understand like what they 1522 01:43:49.159 --> 01:43:51.920 were hearing because it was you know, and it wasn't. 1523 01:43:52.000 --> 01:43:54.479 It's not there was some program where you could upload 1524 01:43:54.560 --> 01:43:59.960 subtitles to release a movie in India or China. But nevertheless, 1525 01:44:00.159 --> 01:44:04.199 there was this constant stream of mostly radio then but 1526 01:44:04.279 --> 01:44:08.840 also TV and like the richer developing world that said 1527 01:44:08.920 --> 01:44:11.279 like this is cool, this is how you should be. 1528 01:44:12.439 --> 01:44:15.079 So people kind of like ate up the visual aspect 1529 01:44:15.560 --> 01:44:20.399 and you know kind of in congress with you know, 1530 01:44:20.600 --> 01:44:24.760 the the overly ideological kind of like radio media stuff. 1531 01:44:24.760 --> 01:44:27.800 There's all model in radio for Europe of course. You know, 1532 01:44:28.000 --> 01:44:33.319 it's like this became this international kind of it became 1533 01:44:33.359 --> 01:44:41.319 this uniform, ideologically motivated international subculture without even being linguistically diverse, 1534 01:44:41.920 --> 01:44:48.239 you know, and it was, uh, it's not like it's 1535 01:44:48.279 --> 01:44:50.680 not like this was happening at gunpoint, you know, like 1536 01:44:50.760 --> 01:44:54.600 it's not like, uh, it's not like American soldiers were 1537 01:44:54.640 --> 01:44:57.600 going into like Angola and like blowing away and a 1538 01:44:57.680 --> 01:45:00.479 guy who ran like the local radio state and saying, 1539 01:45:00.479 --> 01:45:03.279 you're gonna listen to this, You're gonna play this, you know, 1540 01:45:03.520 --> 01:45:07.439 it ability to like insinuate itself kind of along with, 1541 01:45:07.880 --> 01:45:10.840 you know, the the illusion of wealth. He's like, that's 1542 01:45:10.960 --> 01:45:17.319 rare in terms of trying to insinuate a social sensibility 1543 01:45:18.079 --> 01:45:20.279 within people or try to get them to develop sort 1544 01:45:20.279 --> 01:45:23.840 of like a Covenist sense of self and how they 1545 01:45:23.920 --> 01:45:26.159 want their life to be. You know. He's like, that's 1546 01:45:26.199 --> 01:45:28.960 kind of the strength of capitalism. Capitalism is really, really, 1547 01:45:29.079 --> 01:45:32.119 really good. And again I don't use terms of capitalism 1548 01:45:32.199 --> 01:45:35.600 to describe what he's describing, but we're talking about Hobsbaum, 1549 01:45:35.760 --> 01:45:39.199 so I'm using his vernacular. In his view, he said, 1550 01:45:39.760 --> 01:45:43.399 other ideology is whether you're talking about state socialism, you know, 1551 01:45:43.439 --> 01:45:46.199 whether you're talking about some kind of a you know, 1552 01:45:46.319 --> 01:45:48.560 some kind of anti modernist, but at the same time, 1553 01:45:48.680 --> 01:45:54.039 like futurist fascism, nothing is as effective as this, and 1554 01:45:54.159 --> 01:45:59.239 like insinuating itself globally now is a buddle of that. Obviously. 1555 01:45:59.319 --> 01:46:01.000 It's like, well, you know, if you're dealing with like 1556 01:46:01.199 --> 01:46:04.359 poor mentioned material, or you know, if the rest of 1557 01:46:04.399 --> 01:46:06.760 the world's laying in ruins and all that exists is 1558 01:46:06.800 --> 01:46:10.079 America in the Soviet Union as producers of you know, 1559 01:46:10.279 --> 01:46:14.600 mass culture, you're gonna have perverse outcomes. Yeah, that's true, 1560 01:46:15.159 --> 01:46:17.479 but that's not really what he's talking about. He's saying, like, 1561 01:46:17.560 --> 01:46:21.520 in absolute terms, you wouldn't think that this stuff would 1562 01:46:21.560 --> 01:46:23.920 have like gone what we consider it by the face terms, 1563 01:46:23.960 --> 01:46:27.840 like viral, but he did. And in Hobswong's view, that's 1564 01:46:27.960 --> 01:46:31.760 what keeps capitalism alive because it's not like it's not 1565 01:46:31.840 --> 01:46:34.359 like just like great outcomes from people like yeah, if 1566 01:46:34.359 --> 01:46:40.560 you're in America, you're basically rubberized. If you're like if 1567 01:46:40.600 --> 01:46:43.520 you're rich comparatively you're middle class or amazing middle class, 1568 01:46:43.880 --> 01:46:47.600 you're basically rubberized against like true catastrophes. Now, there are 1569 01:46:47.640 --> 01:46:49.560 people in America who really struggle, and they are not 1570 01:46:49.920 --> 01:46:53.000 but they're not the majority. Hobswam is talking more in 1571 01:46:53.119 --> 01:46:56.840 terms of like planetary scale, most people in the world, 1572 01:46:56.920 --> 01:47:00.199 they're not really there's anything to offer you for I'm 1573 01:47:00.279 --> 01:47:02.880 like what he called the capitalist system. I mean, yeah, 1574 01:47:03.119 --> 01:47:08.079 you can. You know, shortages as you may have known 1575 01:47:08.119 --> 01:47:11.760 in your lifetime have been largely mitigated. But that probably 1576 01:47:11.760 --> 01:47:14.760 would happen in any way. That doesn't explain like why 1577 01:47:15.279 --> 01:47:18.520 in like in brass Tacks terms, like white people in Africa, 1578 01:47:18.560 --> 01:47:21.800 white people in Latin America, white people in Asia have 1579 01:47:21.960 --> 01:47:25.399 just like internalized this perspective. It doesn't explain why some 1580 01:47:25.680 --> 01:47:29.520 like Jackass in Liberia like decided in nineteen ninety five 1581 01:47:29.640 --> 01:47:32.000 he wants to be a gangster rapper like that. That 1582 01:47:32.079 --> 01:47:33.880 doesn't make any sense in terms of kind of most 1583 01:47:33.920 --> 01:47:37.199 precedented sociology. I think it makes a lot of sense 1584 01:47:38.800 --> 01:47:43.039 according to certain criteria that we're not present before that 1585 01:47:43.119 --> 01:47:45.760 are a bit outside the scope. But that's kind of 1586 01:47:45.760 --> 01:47:50.640 hobs On's point, Okay. And there were not many true 1587 01:47:50.720 --> 01:47:54.079 sociologists on the left. There was Seawright. Mills wasn't really 1588 01:47:54.119 --> 01:47:57.239 a leftist. I mean he he was viewed as like 1589 01:47:57.279 --> 01:47:59.920 a progressive by like by you know, by like eyes. 1590 01:48:00.039 --> 01:48:05.520 Now we are standards, but he was an He was 1591 01:48:05.560 --> 01:48:08.880 more kind of like an economic sociologist who was like hostled, uh, 1592 01:48:10.000 --> 01:48:14.479 like what was consideredly a cabalist perspective. He but Hoswaon 1593 01:48:14.600 --> 01:48:18.960 was a genuine you know again it's I this is 1594 01:48:19.000 --> 01:48:23.760 not an absolute signifier that incapsulate twenty was. But he 1595 01:48:23.920 --> 01:48:26.800 was like a Stalinist of its height, and very few 1596 01:48:26.840 --> 01:48:30.399 of those guys were like real sociologists. He was Christopher 1597 01:48:30.520 --> 01:48:33.319 Lash ironically hime in a lot of the conclusions hoswa did, 1598 01:48:33.359 --> 01:48:38.199 and his final book it was called Progress That true 1599 01:48:38.239 --> 01:48:41.680 only heaven it' dropped in like nineteen ninety four, so 1600 01:48:41.760 --> 01:48:45.560 over last died now. Of course, Lash had been some 1601 01:48:45.680 --> 01:48:48.760 kind of peculiar freto Marxist in his younger days, like 1602 01:48:48.840 --> 01:48:52.520 the kind of guy who'd been on a gism drawn mark. 1603 01:48:52.880 --> 01:48:54.960 He'd been very much influenced by marcusa in that school 1604 01:48:55.000 --> 01:49:00.720 I thought. And then Lash gradually became like one more 1605 01:49:00.800 --> 01:49:06.960 kind of conservative in his thought, like literally conservative. So 1606 01:49:07.000 --> 01:49:09.079 I'm not sure if you really count. So Hoswem kind 1607 01:49:09.119 --> 01:49:13.840 of stands not quite alone, but it's a it was 1608 01:49:13.880 --> 01:49:21.159 a very small fraternity of revolutionary Marxist Leninists who who had, 1609 01:49:21.560 --> 01:49:25.479 you know, like a sociologist that that was both methodologically 1610 01:49:25.640 --> 01:49:30.039 as well as intellectually rigorous in terms of you know, 1611 01:49:32.359 --> 01:49:37.399 in terms of output. So that's another reason why UH 1612 01:49:38.079 --> 01:49:41.800 people should take him seriously if I haven't convinced the 1613 01:49:41.920 --> 01:49:47.520 subs and other people who like what we do. Hosbon 1614 01:49:47.640 --> 01:49:52.039 did say, though, with a big shortcoming of of capitalism 1615 01:49:52.159 --> 01:49:55.560 or the capitalist perspective is He says that owing to 1616 01:49:55.640 --> 01:49:59.760 this inherently conservative tendency. Now again we're talking about conservatism 1617 01:49:59.840 --> 01:50:02.359 and post seventeen eighty nine cents. We're not talking about 1618 01:50:02.760 --> 01:50:06.479 belief and tradition. We're not talking about you know, reverence 1619 01:50:06.520 --> 01:50:09.720 for for for customs. We're not talking about people want 1620 01:50:09.760 --> 01:50:12.159 to preserve old ways or preserve Harriot. We're not talking 1621 01:50:12.199 --> 01:50:15.560 to that at all. We're talking about ideological conservatism, which 1622 01:50:15.800 --> 01:50:19.560 again is U is a product of enlightenment liberalism one 1623 01:50:19.600 --> 01:50:22.560 hundred percent. Ozom says that the thing that these that 1624 01:50:22.640 --> 01:50:26.479 these capitalists ideologues are really, really, really bad at is 1625 01:50:26.600 --> 01:50:29.359 predicting the future, not putting the future like a gypsy 1626 01:50:29.399 --> 01:50:33.000 of the crystal ball, but kind of diagnosing the trajectory 1627 01:50:33.119 --> 01:50:37.720 of politics and UH an economic phenomenon you know, that's 1628 01:50:37.760 --> 01:50:39.920 why he said that, Like he said that, like people 1629 01:50:40.079 --> 01:50:43.720 like Fukiyama are laughable, you know what they're like theories 1630 01:50:43.760 --> 01:50:47.039 of everything, like, oh, you know they'll be they'll be 1631 01:50:47.119 --> 01:50:51.000 no more armed conflict because you know, they'll be prosperity, 1632 01:50:51.199 --> 01:50:54.960 and you know, people will will naturally like reject religion 1633 01:50:55.119 --> 01:50:58.000 because they'll they'll have all these like hedonistic outlets that 1634 01:50:58.439 --> 01:51:01.680 no longer force them to sublimate. Like Hobzhm's like, that's ridiculous, 1635 01:51:01.720 --> 01:51:04.680 that's nonsense, you know, and he's like, basically, nobody has 1636 01:51:04.720 --> 01:51:07.800 a worst track record speaking in the nineteen nineties. He's like, 1637 01:51:07.920 --> 01:51:10.039 nobody had the worst nobody has the worst track record 1638 01:51:10.119 --> 01:51:13.359 of the preceding forty years. So basically probably a post 1639 01:51:13.399 --> 01:51:16.039 war era in like the nineties than like, you know, 1640 01:51:16.159 --> 01:51:21.520 the capitalists. You know, He's like, they're spectacularly bad at 1641 01:51:21.600 --> 01:51:24.279 predicting what's going to happen, and that's also why they 1642 01:51:24.279 --> 01:51:27.560 got utterly blindsided by like the implosion of the Soviet Union. 1643 01:51:28.479 --> 01:51:35.039 You know. Hobbs Arm reserve a particular contempt for Calvin Coolidge. 1644 01:51:35.760 --> 01:51:37.880 He did Coolie is kind of like a Reagan figure, 1645 01:51:38.159 --> 01:51:43.520 which isn't I mean Reagan himself like lionized the Coolidge, 1646 01:51:43.560 --> 01:51:48.399 but I think Reagan is more like Eisenhower. Frankly, but interestingly, 1647 01:51:48.479 --> 01:51:51.000 George Kennan had a similar contempt for Reagan. He thought 1648 01:51:51.039 --> 01:51:53.560 he was an idiots. I mean, I got love for 1649 01:51:54.680 --> 01:51:56.520 Kennan old day, but I think he had some blind 1650 01:51:56.560 --> 01:52:01.520 spots in his own right. But what what Osbom said 1651 01:52:01.640 --> 01:52:06.199 in one of his later books Coolidge in nineteen twenty eight, 1652 01:52:07.359 --> 01:52:09.359 I think it was his is like a holiday message. 1653 01:52:09.800 --> 01:52:11.800 You know, there's nothing even a great depression. They had 1654 01:52:11.880 --> 01:52:15.760 not the kind of terrors in ainety twenty nine, obviously 1655 01:52:15.800 --> 01:52:20.479 had not sit in yet, but there was there was 1656 01:52:20.560 --> 01:52:24.199 there was an ominous air about things. So Coolidge's message, 1657 01:52:24.319 --> 01:52:26.880 like in Holiday Season ninety twenty eight, was quote, the 1658 01:52:26.960 --> 01:52:30.159 country can regard the present with satisfaction and anticipate the 1659 01:52:30.239 --> 01:52:35.399 future with optimism. That's fucking meaningless. That's like saying like 1660 01:52:37.560 --> 01:52:41.079 things are great because my McDonald's lunch today. You know, 1661 01:52:41.239 --> 01:52:46.800 cheeseburgers taste good and it's Friday, and you know, I 1662 01:52:47.000 --> 01:52:51.159 like pussy like. It's I think a crancer version of 1663 01:52:51.199 --> 01:52:55.520 what Coolidge dropped. Okay, I mean that's that's like almost 1664 01:52:55.560 --> 01:53:05.319 Clintonian and it's superficial, supervisionally moronic, you know, uh essence, 1665 01:53:05.920 --> 01:53:13.159 you know. So like that's why Hobswom says that like capitalism, 1666 01:53:14.600 --> 01:53:19.359 it's got a permanent alibi for its failures because it 1667 01:53:19.479 --> 01:53:22.560 creates this climate. It basically just this dumb down climate 1668 01:53:23.600 --> 01:53:28.520 of cloud chasers and people thirsty and desperate for youth 1669 01:53:28.640 --> 01:53:32.479 and the kind of pleasures that supposedly attend youth. And 1670 01:53:32.560 --> 01:53:35.159 they're told that the experts. And you're always supposed to 1671 01:53:35.159 --> 01:53:37.640 trust experts, you know, like no Ball's Wall says, we 1672 01:53:37.760 --> 01:53:40.920 trust doctors. You're always supposed to trust the experts, whether 1673 01:53:40.920 --> 01:53:44.720 they're an economists, whether they're you know, some Pentagon whiz kid. 1674 01:53:45.039 --> 01:53:48.159 I'm beating myself with that phraseology, I realize, or whether 1675 01:53:48.199 --> 01:53:52.319 they're you know, some medical doctor like doctor Fauci. And 1676 01:53:52.439 --> 01:53:55.800 the experts always say, you know something in the same 1677 01:53:55.880 --> 01:53:59.279 thing as what Coolidge said, there's just nothing but progress ahead. 1678 01:53:59.279 --> 01:54:02.640 There's nothing press, spirity, aad so oh, when there's natural 1679 01:54:03.760 --> 01:54:08.760 when there's natural hiccups so to speak, you know, in markets, 1680 01:54:09.119 --> 01:54:13.279 or when there's problems, or when a combination of malfeasance 1681 01:54:13.359 --> 01:54:16.439 and badly coded inputs leads to something like a two 1682 01:54:16.439 --> 01:54:20.119 thousand and eight crisis where billions of dollars are wiped out, like, oh, 1683 01:54:20.279 --> 01:54:23.399 the alibi the capitalists and who in a hoplit view 1684 01:54:23.479 --> 01:54:25.760 is like, oh, this was an unforeseen crisis, almost like 1685 01:54:25.800 --> 01:54:28.239 a terrorist attack, you know, but darn it, like we 1686 01:54:28.359 --> 01:54:31.039 got the gumption to get through it. And these things 1687 01:54:31.119 --> 01:54:33.319 just can't be predicted, you know. It's a hosba on 1688 01:54:33.399 --> 01:54:37.159 this nonsense. This is absolutely foreseeable, you know, Like, granted, 1689 01:54:38.359 --> 01:54:43.119 there's always something of a there's always something of a 1690 01:54:43.279 --> 01:54:48.079 mystics belief in augury to Marxist lenin Is, it's like 1691 01:54:48.239 --> 01:54:51.600 dressed up as like, oh, no, we're just diagnosing, you know, 1692 01:54:51.960 --> 01:54:56.359 through a scientific method, the world historical process. But they 1693 01:54:56.479 --> 01:54:59.479 do they are right when they say, like, no, history 1694 01:54:59.479 --> 01:55:03.000 does not peat itself. That's something morons say. But there 1695 01:55:03.079 --> 01:55:06.760 are patterns too advanced, particularly crises of like an economic 1696 01:55:06.840 --> 01:55:09.439 or military nature, and this idea like we're just being 1697 01:55:09.520 --> 01:55:12.920 blindsided because this this can't be predicted, you know. Like 1698 01:55:13.079 --> 01:55:15.039 that he's right about that, and that that is the 1699 01:55:15.199 --> 01:55:19.239 ongoing alibi of capitalism. Again, this is his phraseology he 1700 01:55:19.359 --> 01:55:20.279 calls capitalism. 1701 01:55:21.520 --> 01:55:22.000 I think. 1702 01:55:23.800 --> 01:55:25.079 I'm want to take part three in it's some of 1703 01:55:25.119 --> 01:55:26.880 a different direction, and I think we're coming up in 1704 01:55:26.920 --> 01:55:31.159 the hour, so I'm gonna cease if that's okay, because 1705 01:55:31.159 --> 01:55:34.159 if I, if I start in on what I want 1706 01:55:34.199 --> 01:55:36.279 to start in on it, we're just gonna have to 1707 01:55:36.520 --> 01:55:38.000 abrogate it. And I don't want to do that. 1708 01:55:39.279 --> 01:55:41.720 No problem at all, No problem at all. And getting 1709 01:55:41.720 --> 01:55:44.880 ready for a trip and everything. So yeah, yeah, you 1710 01:55:44.920 --> 01:55:48.039 don't want to don't want to keep you here forever. Yeah, 1711 01:55:48.119 --> 01:55:49.359 two plugs, we'll get out of here. 1712 01:55:50.079 --> 01:55:52.159 Yeah. No, my my, my good buddy. I don't want 1713 01:55:52.159 --> 01:55:54.239 to name check him because he's a very private person. 1714 01:55:54.399 --> 01:55:57.680 But like my homie and my erstwhile, like tech Frog, 1715 01:55:57.920 --> 01:56:00.920 who maintains my website, it's back up and running time 1716 01:56:00.960 --> 01:56:04.039 at seven seven seven dot com number seven h seven 1717 01:56:04.079 --> 01:56:06.800 seven seven dot com. It's up to date, it's current. 1718 01:56:07.399 --> 01:56:09.600 You can find the archives of everything I do, and 1719 01:56:09.760 --> 01:56:12.800 like the alerts automatically kick on, like when this gets uploaded, 1720 01:56:12.840 --> 01:56:16.279 it'll automatically pop up. So it's current. I know it 1721 01:56:16.399 --> 01:56:19.640 was down for a few days. I'm gonna retool some stuff, 1722 01:56:19.880 --> 01:56:22.000 or rather my guy is gonna retool it. I've no 1723 01:56:22.000 --> 01:56:23.479 idea how to do that, but there's some things I 1724 01:56:23.560 --> 01:56:25.960 want to change. I'm not gonna I can't do that 1725 01:56:26.079 --> 01:56:28.479 until I get back from this trip. I'm going to 1726 01:56:28.600 --> 01:56:32.840 Portland tomorrow tomorrow being Halloween, a happy Halloween. I'll be 1727 01:56:33.000 --> 01:56:36.479 back on November seventh. I'm gonna need a few days 1728 01:56:36.479 --> 01:56:39.239 to recover, so realistically, it's probably gonna be like November 1729 01:56:39.319 --> 01:56:42.359 tenth before, like I'm I'll be, I'll be streaming and 1730 01:56:42.359 --> 01:56:45.920 stuff from the road. But I this stuff's not gonna 1731 01:56:45.920 --> 01:56:49.439 get done other than that, so there's good. It's gonna 1732 01:56:49.439 --> 01:56:51.840 be about three weeks before a new pot of as 1733 01:56:51.840 --> 01:56:55.920 ode is is is uploaded. But speaking of the pod, 1734 01:56:56.199 --> 01:56:59.119 you can and I'm gonna retool the website around mid 1735 01:56:59.239 --> 01:57:02.279 month of so they'll it'll be a lot easier to 1736 01:57:02.399 --> 01:57:04.840 use and navigate. They'll be I want that to be 1737 01:57:04.920 --> 01:57:08.399 like an archival library where everybody can find everything for free, 1738 01:57:08.560 --> 01:57:12.960 of course, and that's that. But you can find the 1739 01:57:13.039 --> 01:57:16.640 pod at real Thomas seven seven seven at subsec dot com. 1740 01:57:16.920 --> 01:57:19.960 It's the mind Phaser podcast. We've also got a pretty 1741 01:57:20.000 --> 01:57:24.159 active forum. There's also like there's a combination like short 1742 01:57:24.199 --> 01:57:27.760 and medium forum stuff, and that's the best way to 1743 01:57:27.840 --> 01:57:30.319 keep up with me, like hit me up there or 1744 01:57:30.439 --> 01:57:33.479 hit me up. On t Gram, I got a t 1745 01:57:33.640 --> 01:57:39.279 gram channel. I don't fuck with dms on Twitter and stuff. 1746 01:57:39.319 --> 01:57:42.000 I had too many bad experiences and I I cannot 1747 01:57:42.079 --> 01:57:45.239 keep up with like capitals and DM systems. But I'm 1748 01:57:45.279 --> 01:57:48.560 on social media at Capital r e A l underscore 1749 01:57:49.960 --> 01:57:52.880 number seven him as seven seven seven on Instagram. On 1750 01:57:53.000 --> 01:57:55.640 t Gram, I got a merse shop and yeah, man, 1751 01:57:55.640 --> 01:57:57.720 if you plug like the Merse shop and the description, 1752 01:57:57.840 --> 01:57:59.560 that would be tremendous. I'd appreciate it. 1753 01:57:59.640 --> 01:58:03.920 Bringlind absolutely, it's all set up and just copy and 1754 01:58:03.960 --> 01:58:06.279 paste it over safe travels man. 1755 01:58:06.520 --> 01:58:06.800 Thank you. 1756 01:58:08.159 --> 01:58:13.079 Yeah, Anyboddy, I want to welcome everyone back to the 1757 01:58:13.159 --> 01:58:18.199 Pekanana Show. Thomas seven seven seven is back. And do 1758 01:58:18.279 --> 01:58:20.560 you think this will be the last Hobbs Bomb episode 1759 01:58:20.680 --> 01:58:21.880 or do you think there's another one in. 1760 01:58:21.960 --> 01:58:25.000 This I mean, it's up to you because it's I mean, 1761 01:58:25.039 --> 01:58:27.119 it's your platform and we can go as long as 1762 01:58:27.199 --> 01:58:29.479 you want on it. I think that I think three 1763 01:58:29.560 --> 01:58:36.000 part series are are a good it's sort of I 1764 01:58:36.039 --> 01:58:38.840 think it's a good model to this kind of content. 1765 01:58:39.840 --> 01:58:42.199 But I'll go as long as you want on whatever topic. 1766 01:58:44.199 --> 01:58:47.159 I I was basically going to conclude what I have 1767 01:58:47.199 --> 01:58:49.600 to say on the subject today, but we. 1768 01:58:49.760 --> 01:58:51.800 Mean, let's do it that way, and then it gives 1769 01:58:51.880 --> 01:58:53.079 us a chance to start something new. 1770 01:58:53.880 --> 01:58:59.359 Yeah, indeed, yeah, no before if that's informant, why I 1771 01:58:59.359 --> 01:59:01.560 don't if you want were today? So I started repeating 1772 01:59:01.600 --> 01:59:07.000 myself for whatever, please advise me of that. And we're 1773 01:59:07.000 --> 01:59:10.159 hopping around it. But in terms of the timeline, and 1774 01:59:10.439 --> 01:59:12.720 but I think people have been okay with following it. 1775 01:59:15.760 --> 01:59:20.479 The what's important to me, especially in terms of at 1776 01:59:20.560 --> 01:59:24.159 least what I the kind of real value I find 1777 01:59:24.199 --> 01:59:28.319 in Hobsball. I mean, obviously it's his twentieth century historiography, 1778 01:59:28.760 --> 01:59:31.680 but especially World War One because it's so ill understood 1779 01:59:32.560 --> 01:59:36.680 and it's such a critical event, you know, Like I 1780 01:59:37.479 --> 01:59:41.079 this is something of a tangent like the other week. 1781 01:59:41.399 --> 01:59:43.479 I'm not gonna name names because I don't have people 1782 01:59:43.520 --> 01:59:45.800 to think I'm being mean or I'm not even trying 1783 01:59:45.840 --> 01:59:48.920 to like suggest something humitive. But I've done this panel 1784 01:59:48.960 --> 01:59:52.680 with if you guys, and I was talking about how people, 1785 01:59:52.880 --> 01:59:56.840 especially in America, but also basically like across anglophone countries 1786 01:59:57.000 --> 02:00:00.239 and like their academic culture and stuff, they have this 1787 02:00:00.359 --> 02:00:04.960 idea they reject historicism of the continental type, but they 1788 02:00:05.039 --> 02:00:08.119 fall back in this kind of like midwid idea of oh, 1789 02:00:08.319 --> 02:00:12.319 history repeats itself, or alternatively they like a show that. 1790 02:00:13.399 --> 02:00:15.640 But then they claim that, you know, well, there's not 1791 02:00:15.760 --> 02:00:18.680 really press it into extrapolate, so you can't make a 1792 02:00:18.800 --> 02:00:22.479 search an xyz. So like I was making the point 1793 02:00:22.520 --> 02:00:25.560 of the twentieth century, basically, there's nothing you can glean 1794 02:00:25.640 --> 02:00:28.640 from that moving forward ether in terms of the strategic 1795 02:00:28.800 --> 02:00:31.800 landscape or power political development. And this guy's like, well 1796 02:00:31.840 --> 02:00:34.880 you can't say that. I'm like, actually, I can you 1797 02:00:35.159 --> 02:00:37.399 tell me World War one is gonna happen again? That 1798 02:00:37.640 --> 02:00:41.039 never ever happens, you know, like that's that's the equipment 1799 02:00:41.119 --> 02:00:44.479 of like a meteor strike, you know. I mean so, 1800 02:00:46.119 --> 02:00:50.760 but this side Hobsbaum was interesting, especially the way he 1801 02:00:50.920 --> 02:00:54.479 characterized the Great War. I mean, obviously because he was 1802 02:00:54.880 --> 02:01:00.920 at base a doctor and near Marxist Leninists, he overstated 1803 02:01:01.079 --> 02:01:04.800 material and economic causes. But there is nuance there that 1804 02:01:05.279 --> 02:01:09.439 I think warrants attention, you know. But first, I mean 1805 02:01:09.479 --> 02:01:12.840 a little bit of background in terms of like what 1806 02:01:13.119 --> 02:01:16.279 laid the foundation for his sort of breakdown of the 1807 02:01:16.319 --> 02:01:22.520 Great War. Housbun was very much he very much proposed 1808 02:01:22.560 --> 02:01:26.560 the theory of what's now called the general crisis. Okay, 1809 02:01:29.840 --> 02:01:32.760 what the what? What? What the general crisis refers to 1810 02:01:33.640 --> 02:01:37.239 is this is this odd period in the nineteenth century 1811 02:01:39.399 --> 02:01:43.319 whereby on the one hand, there's this kind of running 1812 02:01:43.399 --> 02:01:48.680 stability in terms of power, political activity, and interstate warring. 1813 02:01:48.920 --> 02:01:54.479 You know, after Waterloo. After Waterloo, not much happened in Europe. 1814 02:01:54.760 --> 02:01:56.399 I mean, I mean a lot happened, but I mean 1815 02:01:56.439 --> 02:02:00.159 the in terms of war and peace developments. You know, 1816 02:02:00.199 --> 02:02:03.000 there was the Crimean War, which is very much restricted 1817 02:02:03.720 --> 02:02:09.560 to the theater, to the primary battle space, you know, uh, 1818 02:02:10.640 --> 02:02:16.399 which you know, very much spared the continent. And there's 1819 02:02:16.439 --> 02:02:21.000 the Franco Prussian War, which really that's kind of what 1820 02:02:21.159 --> 02:02:23.520 started to knock France out of the game as like 1821 02:02:23.640 --> 02:02:27.840 a true like bourgoning superpower in my opinion. But that also, 1822 02:02:28.439 --> 02:02:30.399 I mean that was that was kind of the the 1823 02:02:30.520 --> 02:02:34.680 most that was one of the greatest like Prussian victories 1824 02:02:34.720 --> 02:02:36.760 of all time. But that also, I mean that was 1825 02:02:36.840 --> 02:02:39.399 kind of the first blitzkrieg in some ways, you know, 1826 02:02:39.520 --> 02:02:42.920 and there there wasn't large scale civilian nutrition in it, 1827 02:02:43.520 --> 02:02:45.199 you know. But other than that, I mean, some of 1828 02:02:45.199 --> 02:02:47.239 the reasons I think, like I mentioned before, so many 1829 02:02:47.399 --> 02:02:51.880 European mercenaries like streamed into the United States like to 1830 02:02:52.079 --> 02:02:55.880 take up to take up arms for pay for you know, 1831 02:02:55.920 --> 02:02:58.720 the Union or the Confederacy, because there just wasn't there 1832 02:02:58.840 --> 02:03:00.840 wasn't a lot going on, you know, if you were 1833 02:03:02.079 --> 02:03:05.840 if war fighting was your hustle, you know, either because 1834 02:03:06.239 --> 02:03:07.840 that's just what you like to do, you know, you 1835 02:03:07.920 --> 02:03:10.239 were an action junkie, or like that's how you made 1836 02:03:10.239 --> 02:03:12.159 a living. Like well, you've kind of had to look 1837 02:03:12.159 --> 02:03:14.960 abroad if you wanted to apply your trade, you know. 1838 02:03:15.800 --> 02:03:21.479 But there was a lot of social instability, and there 1839 02:03:21.560 --> 02:03:24.319 was a lot of there was a lot of sociological 1840 02:03:26.279 --> 02:03:30.119 there's a lot of punctuated disturbances, you know, like in 1841 02:03:30.199 --> 02:03:36.119 the social structure of the main European countries. And like 1842 02:03:36.239 --> 02:03:39.760 this started really after the Thirty Years of War. You know, 1843 02:03:40.840 --> 02:03:44.119 a huge Trevor Roper is another guy. He was very, 1844 02:03:44.239 --> 02:03:47.000 very different than a Hobsball, but he basically abided this 1845 02:03:47.119 --> 02:03:50.760 as well. Okay, like basically in the middle of the 1846 02:03:50.840 --> 02:03:55.640 seventeenth century, there's this total breakdown in politics and in 1847 02:03:55.760 --> 02:04:00.439 social order and economics and everything else, and this need 1848 02:04:00.640 --> 02:04:04.600 in you know, the Thirty Years War. You know, then 1849 02:04:04.640 --> 02:04:08.840 there's the English civil war. Then in France what they 1850 02:04:08.920 --> 02:04:13.239 call like the Frond, which was basically like this running 1851 02:04:13.319 --> 02:04:17.039 civil unrest, you know, and in some cases just like 1852 02:04:17.239 --> 02:04:20.960 violent criminality that didn't even really have a political raizon detro. 1853 02:04:21.079 --> 02:04:23.039 It was just like guys kind of like clicking up 1854 02:04:23.520 --> 02:04:26.680 and like robbing, raping and killing people under some like 1855 02:04:26.800 --> 02:04:35.039 loose auspices of economic justice by violence, you know. The 1856 02:04:35.479 --> 02:04:39.800 the Holy Roman Empire, which uh, which was actually a 1857 02:04:39.880 --> 02:04:44.039 really important political structure. You know, I know that there's 1858 02:04:44.560 --> 02:04:47.680 a lot of Anglophone historians. They they're kind of like, 1859 02:04:47.720 --> 02:04:50.640 ohioly declared like it was a neither Holy nor Roman 1860 02:04:50.720 --> 02:04:53.560 nor an empire. It's like, okay, that's great, but it 1861 02:04:54.399 --> 02:04:59.039 the reason why like it took on that Moniker was 1862 02:05:00.000 --> 02:05:02.560 suggest that, you know, this is a transfer of sovereignty 1863 02:05:02.640 --> 02:05:05.680 to Europe central like from what was like the just 1864 02:05:05.840 --> 02:05:10.840 public on Romanum. You know, I mean it does track. Okay, 1865 02:05:13.079 --> 02:05:18.439 there was revolts against the Spanish crown in Portugal. There 1866 02:05:18.600 --> 02:05:22.479 was there there were secessionist movements in Naples and Catalonia, 1867 02:05:23.199 --> 02:05:25.479 like and this also just like jumping off like at 1868 02:05:25.520 --> 02:05:29.199 the same time. You know, it wasn't coincidental that something 1869 02:05:29.359 --> 02:05:35.960 was happening, you know, and when when the dust kind 1870 02:05:36.000 --> 02:05:40.079 of settled, you had this increasing centralization at governments. Okay, 1871 02:05:41.079 --> 02:05:44.880 Like we talked about last session, there was this kind 1872 02:05:44.920 --> 02:05:47.880 of like nationalism that kind of took rude, but it 1873 02:05:47.960 --> 02:05:50.560 was like very much something an Enlightenment phenomenon. Like again 1874 02:05:50.680 --> 02:05:53.079 we say like nationalism, We're not talking about some return 1875 02:05:53.239 --> 02:05:57.399 to sort of like tradition or or some kind adamistic tribalism. 1876 02:05:57.880 --> 02:05:59.600 We're saying that like kind of the court in these 1877 02:05:59.680 --> 02:06:02.520 country is consolidated. And it's like, okay, look, you know, 1878 02:06:02.680 --> 02:06:05.560 like within these sovereign parameters, like we are the only 1879 02:06:05.720 --> 02:06:08.399 sovereign we have the power to tax you, you and you, 1880 02:06:09.279 --> 02:06:13.199 you know, the only the only legitimate men under arms 1881 02:06:13.239 --> 02:06:16.039 the ones weach are you know, stuff like that, Okay, 1882 02:06:18.359 --> 02:06:20.680 And it's kind this kind of like central bureaucracy like 1883 02:06:20.760 --> 02:06:23.600 developed to kind of prevent this chaos that have been happening. 1884 02:06:23.800 --> 02:06:26.000 And this is like one hundred and fifty year cycle 1885 02:06:26.119 --> 02:06:28.880 from like the end of like the Thirty Years War 1886 02:06:29.159 --> 02:06:31.319 and the Peace of Westphalia until like the start of 1887 02:06:31.359 --> 02:06:36.239 the nineteenth century, you know. But throughout the nineteenth century, 1888 02:06:36.359 --> 02:06:40.239 despite these this this kind of basic stability in terms 1889 02:06:40.239 --> 02:06:44.720 of like power political activity. There was this increasing tension 1890 02:06:45.279 --> 02:06:46.960 because you like a lot of these, a lot of 1891 02:06:47.039 --> 02:06:51.600 these like you know, otherwise progressive states that its centralized, 1892 02:06:52.479 --> 02:06:54.479 you know, despite that they were they were most of 1893 02:06:54.520 --> 02:06:57.520 them were like run by absolute monarchs, or they were 1894 02:06:57.600 --> 02:07:02.920 run by a court that was essentially staffed by you know, 1895 02:07:03.640 --> 02:07:09.520 like an upper house of landed aristocrats. Okay, and obviously, 1896 02:07:10.279 --> 02:07:12.319 you know, clergy people still had a lot of cloud 1897 02:07:12.720 --> 02:07:18.840 you know, the Roman Church couldn't assert itself in an 1898 02:07:18.840 --> 02:07:23.159 absolute way over sovereign governments anymore, but it still had 1899 02:07:23.199 --> 02:07:26.800 great power. So there's this weird disconnects. On the one hand, 1900 02:07:26.880 --> 02:07:29.760 like structurally, you had the structure of the modern state 1901 02:07:30.239 --> 02:07:32.800 like as we know it today, but it was populated 1902 02:07:32.880 --> 02:07:39.319 basically by these aristocrats and and clerical types and people 1903 02:07:39.439 --> 02:07:43.119 who derived their mandate from sort of traditional modalities that 1904 02:07:43.199 --> 02:07:47.560 were ceasing to exist. Okay, I want to Hosbal's big points. 1905 02:07:47.600 --> 02:07:50.039 And a lot of people don't understand this about Marxists. 1906 02:07:51.399 --> 02:07:55.279 Marxists don't look at aristocrats and the bourgeoisie is the 1907 02:07:55.399 --> 02:07:58.479 same thing. They look at them as opposing classes, which 1908 02:07:58.560 --> 02:08:04.439 they are. And the First Revolution before the proletarian revolution 1909 02:08:04.560 --> 02:08:09.039 can happen, like basically, the bourgeoisie have to annihilate the aristocracy, 1910 02:08:09.800 --> 02:08:13.039 and when that doesn't or can't happen, there's this kind 1911 02:08:13.039 --> 02:08:17.479 of stagnation and like the Marxist Leninist worldview, like nothing 1912 02:08:17.560 --> 02:08:21.680 is progressing, you know, there's not like innovation. Government kind 1913 02:08:21.720 --> 02:08:24.159 of it has this monopoly on power, but there's something 1914 02:08:24.239 --> 02:08:27.199 dynamic about it. And this is critically important because I've 1915 02:08:27.239 --> 02:08:31.199 heard people talk about and especially because I understand why 1916 02:08:31.199 --> 02:08:35.560 people develop that impression based on the rhetoric as well 1917 02:08:35.600 --> 02:08:40.279 as the experience historically of the Russian Revolution. They view 1918 02:08:40.399 --> 02:08:43.640 like Bolsheviks's guys who like want to kill kings or 1919 02:08:43.640 --> 02:08:46.600 who like view like them as guys who just want 1920 02:08:46.640 --> 02:08:48.920 to burn down the churches because they view the church 1921 02:08:49.000 --> 02:08:51.119 as the repressor. That's not the way they look at it. Yeah, 1922 02:08:51.119 --> 02:08:53.800 they want to do those things, but their whole notion 1923 02:08:54.079 --> 02:08:58.720 is that the bourgeoisie is a revolutionary element too. It's 1924 02:08:58.760 --> 02:09:01.239 got to annihilate like the thrown an altar and like 1925 02:09:01.399 --> 02:09:05.720 the European court as it's existed for you know, millennia, 1926 02:09:05.840 --> 02:09:09.439 and it's now consolidated under the trap things of the 1927 02:09:09.520 --> 02:09:12.720 modern state. And then like when the bourgeoisie is able 1928 02:09:12.760 --> 02:09:16.159 to consolidate control of this modern means of production, you know, 1929 02:09:16.319 --> 02:09:20.199 that can be applied to, you know, basically resolving shortages 1930 02:09:20.279 --> 02:09:23.800 and poverty. Like that's like when the proletariat rises up 1931 02:09:24.079 --> 02:09:26.560 and then like takes over those means and that's like 1932 02:09:26.640 --> 02:09:29.640 the final revolution. Then there's like no more class, there's 1933 02:09:29.680 --> 02:09:32.800 no more cast, you know, and like life can be 1934 02:09:32.920 --> 02:09:36.640 like socially homogenized, like in circumstances of plenty, and there's 1935 02:09:36.680 --> 02:09:40.319 not material need anymore. And because there's not contradictions anymore, 1936 02:09:40.359 --> 02:09:43.800 and there's not there's not material deprivation, like there's not 1937 02:09:44.039 --> 02:09:47.359 war anymore, and like all the superstructural features that cause 1938 02:09:47.399 --> 02:09:50.439 those things, you know, like like like racial problems and 1939 02:09:50.520 --> 02:09:54.359 things like those are all like annihilated because they can 1940 02:09:54.439 --> 02:09:58.640 no longer be exploited, either deliberately by design or or 1941 02:09:58.800 --> 02:10:01.640 or just by you know, or just you're just owing 1942 02:10:01.640 --> 02:10:06.079 to intrinsic tensions that that that that caused us stillity 1943 02:10:06.159 --> 02:10:09.920 owing to the internal contradictions of of a non vorestic paradigm. 1944 02:10:10.039 --> 02:10:15.920 Like that's what they're talking about. Okay, So Hobsbaum's view 1945 02:10:16.479 --> 02:10:19.239 and Roper's view, albeit for ay different reasons and a 1946 02:10:19.279 --> 02:10:22.880 lot of like Aanglo historians was that this phenomenon I'm 1947 02:10:22.960 --> 02:10:26.560 talking about it basically kind of it created this like 1948 02:10:26.640 --> 02:10:33.159 weird stagnation and these tensions kept on developed this sort 1949 02:10:33.199 --> 02:10:37.199 of unsustainable momentum, and then by the time of the 1950 02:10:37.359 --> 02:10:41.520 Great War, what it essentially happened was you had this 1951 02:10:41.680 --> 02:10:46.920 kind of like hyper competitive capitalist paradigm between the major 1952 02:10:46.960 --> 02:10:53.119 European powers, but it was kind of inconsistent across national 1953 02:10:53.239 --> 02:10:57.279 frontiers and uneven. Okay, So you had the Germans that 1954 02:10:57.319 --> 02:11:00.520 were absolutely killing it, and they were eclipsed in the UK, 1955 02:11:00.760 --> 02:11:02.960 which had previously been you know kind of like the 1956 02:11:04.159 --> 02:11:06.520 like like like like the like the factory of Europe, 1957 02:11:06.600 --> 02:11:10.000 you know, and and and and British products that they 1958 02:11:10.039 --> 02:11:12.079 had been like flooding the planet and markets far and 1959 02:11:12.159 --> 02:11:15.520 wide like that was over with. But the but the 1960 02:11:15.640 --> 02:11:19.319 newly consolidated like German state like it was cash poor, 1961 02:11:20.079 --> 02:11:21.560 you know. And then he had the French, who, like 1962 02:11:21.640 --> 02:11:23.399 I said, they'd been kind of like knocked off of 1963 02:11:23.439 --> 02:11:27.199 their pedestal, you know, by the Franco Prussian War and 1964 02:11:27.279 --> 02:11:30.840 never really recovered, you know, frankly from like Waterloo and stuff. 1965 02:11:31.960 --> 02:11:32.119 You know. 1966 02:11:32.239 --> 02:11:34.479 So they were like realizing that like they were gonna 1967 02:11:34.680 --> 02:11:37.119 like the future basically was them being like a junior 1968 02:11:37.199 --> 02:11:40.159 partner kind of in this like German dominated continent as 1969 02:11:40.199 --> 02:11:45.279 Europe becomes a superpower, Okay. And hobbs On view is like, look, 1970 02:11:45.359 --> 02:11:49.239 with the great equalizer raises and military power, and he's right, 1971 02:11:50.239 --> 02:11:53.359 and if you don't believe that, I mean I'll relieve this, Okay, 1972 02:11:54.560 --> 02:11:58.239 Like at peak, I'm talking in the era of like 1973 02:11:59.119 --> 02:12:04.119 undeniable strategy parody, like after nineteen seventy seven, the Soviet 1974 02:12:04.279 --> 02:12:09.239 Union at peak, it it's GDP was like one fifth 1975 02:12:09.279 --> 02:12:14.560 out of the United States. Okay, its annual growth was 1976 02:12:14.600 --> 02:12:17.279 like one point two percent or like something that would 1977 02:12:17.279 --> 02:12:22.560 be like viewed as pathetic by you know, by the UH, 1978 02:12:23.399 --> 02:12:26.640 by the Buddhist Republic or by the United States. But 1979 02:12:26.840 --> 02:12:32.560 they were probably like the strongest UH military power that's 1980 02:12:32.600 --> 02:12:37.439 ever existed on this planet. Okay. So in a Hosbo 1981 02:12:37.680 --> 02:12:41.359 his view, like, look, if you're being if you're if 1982 02:12:41.359 --> 02:12:44.359 you're basically being merked like in the game of UH, 1983 02:12:44.600 --> 02:12:48.319 in the great game of of of capitalist commerce, and 1984 02:12:49.479 --> 02:12:52.840 you know, the kind of zero sum competition before European 1985 02:12:52.880 --> 02:12:58.119 integration was a reality. Your trump card is essentially that 1986 02:12:59.079 --> 02:13:03.159 you can defe your enemies on the battlefield, you know. 1987 02:13:03.720 --> 02:13:08.119 And there was a certain conveinence here because again, you know, 1988 02:13:08.199 --> 02:13:14.319 the Crimean War resolved pretty rapidly. Okay, the Franco Prussian 1989 02:13:14.359 --> 02:13:18.000 War resolved pretty rapidly. The war between the states here 1990 02:13:18.039 --> 02:13:21.119 in America was a blood bath. But that, oh, just 1991 02:13:21.239 --> 02:13:27.239 peculiar conditions. Okay. So going into World War One, the 1992 02:13:27.319 --> 02:13:30.640 combatant states like, yeah, I mean there was there's complex 1993 02:13:30.760 --> 02:13:34.800 historical factors that conspired to make it happen. But the 1994 02:13:34.880 --> 02:13:40.880 major combatants figured that, well, you know, this is going 1995 02:13:40.920 --> 02:13:46.880 to resolve pretty rapidly, you know, and the British especially 1996 02:13:47.000 --> 02:13:54.760 thought that. And you know, I this is a discussion 1997 02:13:54.840 --> 02:13:58.640 for another series, but I said during the World War 1998 02:13:58.720 --> 02:14:01.760 One series that a whole Vegg think was, I mean, 1999 02:14:01.800 --> 02:14:05.439 here was the really sympathetic figure in the Great War, 2000 02:14:05.560 --> 02:14:11.319 and that that perfect exemplifies like what Howl was talking about, 2001 02:14:11.720 --> 02:14:13.840 the kind of the dynamic between like a wholeveg the 2002 02:14:13.960 --> 02:14:19.479 counselor and and and the Kaiser. You know, Wilhelm was 2003 02:14:19.560 --> 02:14:23.199 not a good man, and he he did not have 2004 02:14:23.359 --> 02:14:27.359 good command aptitude, but even if he had, there was 2005 02:14:27.439 --> 02:14:32.920 like this bizarre kind of tango where you had you 2006 02:14:33.039 --> 02:14:35.960 had like, you know, the leader of government in a Wholveg. 2007 02:14:36.319 --> 02:14:38.600 Then you had literally the Kaiser who was the king. 2008 02:14:39.680 --> 02:14:42.800 Then you had these industrialists and both Holeveg and the 2009 02:14:42.920 --> 02:14:47.479 Kaiser they had to organize like purchasing you know, arms, munitions, 2010 02:14:49.239 --> 02:14:55.840 figuring out some way to appropriate manufacturing and means to 2011 02:14:55.960 --> 02:15:01.279 sustain battlefield demands, but also compensating these price actors or 2012 02:15:01.359 --> 02:15:04.800 like you know, their outlays and things. So it's like 2013 02:15:04.840 --> 02:15:07.439 you got kind of like three bases of sovereignty that 2014 02:15:07.520 --> 02:15:11.399 are that are basically at odds and have competing interests, 2015 02:15:12.520 --> 02:15:19.199 but they're all profiting or at least you know, surviving 2016 02:15:19.600 --> 02:15:24.239 by virtue of this war enterprise, you know, and it 2017 02:15:24.399 --> 02:15:27.840 leaves us conditions where like nobody's really in charge. And 2018 02:15:27.960 --> 02:15:31.520 like hod made that point too, you know, and that's 2019 02:15:31.560 --> 02:15:35.119 why I put him kind of head and showers above 2020 02:15:35.199 --> 02:15:37.760 most most Marxists who just say, like, oh, well, world 2021 02:15:37.760 --> 02:15:41.680 war want to happen because you know, of overproduction, you know, 2022 02:15:41.760 --> 02:15:44.159 like and that that's that's ridiculous, Like, well, Wan didn't 2023 02:15:44.279 --> 02:15:47.119 happen because there was some conspiracy of capitalists, like well, 2024 02:15:47.159 --> 02:15:49.399 we got to kill off you know, our workers because 2025 02:15:49.399 --> 02:15:51.600 there's you know, we can't employ them and and well, 2026 02:15:51.720 --> 02:15:53.720 you know we we don't, we don't we don't have 2027 02:15:53.800 --> 02:15:56.199 a destination for these or produced goods, So we're just 2028 02:15:56.239 --> 02:15:58.640 gonna blow them up on the battlefield. Like nobody thinks 2029 02:15:58.720 --> 02:16:01.279 that way, and that's all and not why wars happened. 2030 02:16:02.520 --> 02:16:04.920 And if that was the case, like if that was true, 2031 02:16:05.840 --> 02:16:09.199 like basically anytime there was a major recession, like the 2032 02:16:09.279 --> 02:16:12.439 president would just like devise a war like that, That's 2033 02:16:12.479 --> 02:16:16.000 not how things happen, you know, like if if there's 2034 02:16:16.039 --> 02:16:19.399 a huge financial crisis next year and America and the 2035 02:16:19.560 --> 02:16:22.039 Chinese would be like, let's like let's pretend to have 2036 02:16:22.119 --> 02:16:24.239 a war and sink each other's navies, Like well, what 2037 02:16:24.239 --> 02:16:26.279 would that accomplish? You know? That's I mean, I'm being 2038 02:16:26.359 --> 02:16:29.520 up too deliberately, but this is an important point because 2039 02:16:29.520 --> 02:16:32.760 they're refrain even a guys should know better, like, well, 2040 02:16:32.840 --> 02:16:35.719 war's about big business or it's about money. It's like, no, 2041 02:16:35.840 --> 02:16:38.120 it's not, man Like, how is it about money? Like 2042 02:16:38.159 --> 02:16:42.959 how I mean, yeah, people definitely find ways to profit 2043 02:16:43.079 --> 02:16:46.239 from war, but you can profit from literally anything, you know. 2044 02:16:46.440 --> 02:16:49.559 I mean, that's that doesn't tell us anything, you know, 2045 02:16:49.680 --> 02:16:55.559 but that's this is fundamentally important. And this not not 2046 02:16:55.719 --> 02:16:58.200 just the catach to feel the Great War and you 2047 02:16:58.280 --> 02:17:01.079 know the fact that it kind of deformed the entire generation, 2048 02:17:01.799 --> 02:17:04.719 I mean and put an entire generation in the grave 2049 02:17:04.760 --> 02:17:08.840 as well. But it these these these tensions and these uncertainties, 2050 02:17:09.760 --> 02:17:12.879 this is what uh, this is what facility. This is 2051 02:17:12.920 --> 02:17:17.920 what expedited the Bolshevik Revolution, which very easily, by the way, 2052 02:17:18.040 --> 02:17:21.200 could have prevailed europe wide. You know, I mean, it's uh, 2053 02:17:23.280 --> 02:17:26.600 I'm the first to acknowledge, as any serious student in 2054 02:17:26.600 --> 02:17:32.879 the twentieth century, is it's strange that, uh, the the 2055 02:17:33.479 --> 02:17:40.639 literal heart of the of the Communist International was was Russia. 2056 02:17:40.840 --> 02:17:46.399 That's that's weird. But people conveniently forget or they just 2057 02:17:46.479 --> 02:17:51.280 don't know because they they're subjected to bad history, you know. 2058 02:17:51.319 --> 02:17:53.879 I mean, there was a communist revolution in Germany, there 2059 02:17:54.000 --> 02:17:56.719 was a communist revolution in Hungary, there almost was in 2060 02:17:56.799 --> 02:18:00.360 the UK. You know, this stuff was stopped by forrest arms. 2061 02:18:00.760 --> 02:18:04.079 It didn't just fizzle out or something. You know. But 2062 02:18:05.760 --> 02:18:08.280 this is the way to understand the twentieth century and 2063 02:18:08.399 --> 02:18:13.200 the degree to which you know, the twentieth century was 2064 02:18:13.360 --> 02:18:20.079 basically a reaction to communism. I mean, they can't be overstated, 2065 02:18:21.040 --> 02:18:24.920 you know, in power political terms. I mean, like obviously 2066 02:18:25.000 --> 02:18:29.879 if we're talking about human life at scale in any book, 2067 02:18:30.000 --> 02:18:35.280 there's an entire myriad of factors across a broad spectrum that. 2068 02:18:36.959 --> 02:18:37.479 Go into that. 2069 02:18:38.639 --> 02:18:45.520 But the kind of key takeaway is, uh, you know 2070 02:18:48.559 --> 02:18:52.399 what Osbon called the age of capitalism like facilitated this 2071 02:18:52.639 --> 02:18:57.639 and like that's he actually he wrote an essay that 2072 02:18:57.719 --> 02:19:00.559 became a book called The Age of capital teen forty 2073 02:19:00.600 --> 02:19:06.600 eight to eighteen seventy five, and he makes the point 2074 02:19:07.000 --> 02:19:10.079 the word capitalism it first entered like the let the 2075 02:19:10.159 --> 02:19:15.559 academic lexicon in the eighteen sixties, you know, from eighteen 2076 02:19:15.639 --> 02:19:21.280 forty eight, like after the revolutions in Europe were quashed 2077 02:19:22.520 --> 02:19:25.680 in both Europe and America, there was this there's this 2078 02:19:25.799 --> 02:19:30.600 kind of like massive economic boom okay. And that's one 2079 02:19:30.600 --> 02:19:33.680 of the things that meant that there wasn't another like 2080 02:19:33.760 --> 02:19:38.799 eighteen forty eight like revolutionary sentiment, because like there's a 2081 02:19:38.879 --> 02:19:44.399 lot of wealth being produced, you know. But again there 2082 02:19:44.479 --> 02:19:48.559 was these kinds of like obsolete social structures that were 2083 02:19:48.639 --> 02:19:53.520 sort of organizing people's lives. Nonetheless, yet these societies were 2084 02:19:53.520 --> 02:19:59.559 flooded with capital but it was it wasn't. It was 2085 02:19:59.639 --> 02:20:02.719 it was much like funnel into specific channels, you know, 2086 02:20:02.799 --> 02:20:08.479 not by conspiracy of design or something. But uh, there 2087 02:20:08.559 --> 02:20:11.879 just was not like a free like like individual people 2088 02:20:11.920 --> 02:20:14.360 and not a lot of person power, and this created 2089 02:20:14.440 --> 02:20:19.159 like weird disparities, you know, like there wasn't there's a 2090 02:20:19.239 --> 02:20:25.120 lot of like if you're if you're a neoliberal economic economist, 2091 02:20:25.200 --> 02:20:28.959 you look at this as like basic marketing efficiencies. You know, 2092 02:20:29.879 --> 02:20:31.920 this is why like banking is so important to like 2093 02:20:31.959 --> 02:20:36.840 the monitorist view. And then they're right about that. You know, 2094 02:20:38.879 --> 02:20:44.639 the the availability of capital and you know, uh competence 2095 02:20:44.680 --> 02:20:48.559 and financial instruments like that. That's that's the regulatory mechanism 2096 02:20:48.600 --> 02:20:51.319 that's essential. But beyond that, you basically need like capital 2097 02:20:51.440 --> 02:20:56.200 flow like where it's going to be most efficiently allocated 2098 02:20:56.239 --> 02:20:58.840 in order to produce produce wealth. And that that wasn't 2099 02:20:58.920 --> 02:21:01.680 really happening, despite the fact that you had you know, 2100 02:21:03.319 --> 02:21:05.760 you had kind of at the top and also kind 2101 02:21:05.760 --> 02:21:12.639 of like unevenly distributed like sort of throughout the sociological spectrum. 2102 02:21:13.120 --> 02:21:15.799 You know, you had some like some incredible innovations that 2103 02:21:15.879 --> 02:21:19.879 were like aldering people's lives, and there was like government 2104 02:21:19.920 --> 02:21:22.360 could simply do things that it couldn't before. I mean, 2105 02:21:22.399 --> 02:21:24.920 like lot World War One, Like that's totally insane. Like 2106 02:21:25.040 --> 02:21:28.239 the ability to mobilize like five million men, arm them, 2107 02:21:28.280 --> 02:21:30.920 equip them, feed them, then like turn them loose to 2108 02:21:31.040 --> 02:21:34.600 like assault your ops like that that would be like 2109 02:21:34.719 --> 02:21:39.760 unthinkable even in like the Napoleonic era, you know. And 2110 02:21:39.840 --> 02:21:42.600 it's not just modern command and control. It was like transportation, 2111 02:21:42.879 --> 02:21:47.000 it was you know, it was more efficient fuel sources. 2112 02:21:47.040 --> 02:21:49.360 It was like more efficient killing technology, and it was 2113 02:21:49.399 --> 02:21:55.559 like it was all these things. But the uh, something 2114 02:21:55.600 --> 02:21:58.360 else that's important too, is Hoblom said. And he was 2115 02:21:58.360 --> 02:22:00.959 writing this in the fifties. See first rod As I say, 2116 02:22:01.000 --> 02:22:04.840 like in the fifties, but this age of capital this 2117 02:22:05.000 --> 02:22:07.120 was like the first This was like the NACA early 2118 02:22:07.360 --> 02:22:13.600 stage of global globalization. Okay, because if you were a 2119 02:22:13.719 --> 02:22:17.280 major capitalist power, you know, and again I involved in 2120 02:22:17.319 --> 02:22:20.639 our capitalists and within the terms Hoswam doesn't, I don't 2121 02:22:20.760 --> 02:22:26.360 use those kinds of terms, but you know, you the 2122 02:22:26.639 --> 02:22:31.600 British Empire held equity basically at every continent, you know, 2123 02:22:31.959 --> 02:22:37.040 and America was not yet a superpower, but you'd find 2124 02:22:37.079 --> 02:22:45.440 American goods basically all over the world, okay, And there 2125 02:22:45.600 --> 02:22:52.079 wasn't a there wasn't a unified banking structure, but lending 2126 02:22:52.200 --> 02:22:57.639 across national frontiers at scale, with governments guaranteeing financial instruments 2127 02:22:58.239 --> 02:23:02.639 that started blowing up, you know, and that that would 2128 02:23:02.639 --> 02:23:06.159 have been unthinkable before. You know, in a lot of 2129 02:23:06.239 --> 02:23:10.520 countries it was literally illegal for uh, national banks to 2130 02:23:11.879 --> 02:23:14.120 you know, to trade across the national frontiers or to 2131 02:23:15.360 --> 02:23:19.879 or to issue financial instruments in foreign markets. But a 2132 02:23:19.959 --> 02:23:22.840 lot of countries simply wouldn't deal in your currency, like 2133 02:23:22.959 --> 02:23:25.319 even if it was even even if it was viewed 2134 02:23:25.360 --> 02:23:28.639 as you know, a desirable currency and speculators would invest 2135 02:23:28.719 --> 02:23:31.639 in it. Oh and and and purising foreign currencies at 2136 02:23:31.680 --> 02:23:34.040 this time was also largely illegal. It was quote unquote 2137 02:23:34.120 --> 02:23:37.319 currency speculation. It was like literally a crime, which is crazy, 2138 02:23:37.479 --> 02:23:40.639 but that that that that was the norm, you know. 2139 02:23:44.520 --> 02:23:45.319 But this uh. 2140 02:23:46.799 --> 02:23:51.239 But because of that, like in the early stages of 2141 02:23:51.399 --> 02:23:55.000 any economic system or any paradigm, not system, but like paradigm, 2142 02:23:56.000 --> 02:24:00.079 there's gonna be like really really uneven growth, okay, and 2143 02:24:00.760 --> 02:24:03.600 that's gonna lead to certain disparities. I'm not talking like 2144 02:24:03.799 --> 02:24:10.920 social justice disparities. I mean like between enterprises, a lot 2145 02:24:10.959 --> 02:24:12.920 of capital is being created, but a lot is being 2146 02:24:12.959 --> 02:24:19.440 wiped out, like we just mentioned across national frontiers. This 2147 02:24:19.559 --> 02:24:25.879 kind of development is uneven. But also certain industries develop 2148 02:24:25.920 --> 02:24:32.600 a kind of outside cloud. Okay, and not the arms 2149 02:24:32.639 --> 02:24:40.079 industry per se, but the the kind of a terrestrial 2150 02:24:40.239 --> 02:24:46.239 manufacturing enterprises that facilitate the arms industry. They developed outside 2151 02:24:46.319 --> 02:24:52.799 power like as did again you know, uh, financial institutions. 2152 02:24:53.440 --> 02:24:55.879 This wasn't some conspiracy and that's not why World War 2153 02:24:55.879 --> 02:24:59.440 went happened, but it was a but it facilitated resorting 2154 02:24:59.479 --> 02:25:04.479 to military he measures to remedy power, political imbalances, uh 2155 02:25:05.520 --> 02:25:08.840 at scale, Okay, there was a perfect storm at things. 2156 02:25:09.200 --> 02:25:14.479 And again that's that's really important, you know. And in 2157 02:25:14.600 --> 02:25:17.440 my own like manuscript to try and emphasize this point 2158 02:25:18.559 --> 02:25:21.840 and has well, I don't. It's not like my primary 2159 02:25:22.200 --> 02:25:28.840 authority on it, but I do cite. But uh yeah, 2160 02:25:29.799 --> 02:25:37.520 moving on. It's also too domestically, whether you're talking about 2161 02:25:38.079 --> 02:25:42.840 the United States, the UK, France, or Germany. The way 2162 02:25:43.239 --> 02:25:45.799 such things I've got to mention were characterized kind of 2163 02:25:45.879 --> 02:25:51.120 differed along the you know, local custom and cultural differences 2164 02:25:51.200 --> 02:25:54.760 and convention, but kind of like the link the Lingua 2165 02:25:54.879 --> 02:25:59.040 franc of government became you know this like there's like 2166 02:25:59.159 --> 02:26:04.440 this resurgence sort of like enlightenment shivelus. So whether you're 2167 02:26:04.479 --> 02:26:07.879 in Berlin, London, Washington, Paris, all your heart from government 2168 02:26:08.000 --> 02:26:10.120 is oh see, like this is like an age of 2169 02:26:10.280 --> 02:26:14.319 unprecedented plenty. You know, it's the age of reason and 2170 02:26:14.520 --> 02:26:19.959 science and progress. But people were getting like ground into dust, 2171 02:26:20.639 --> 02:26:23.600 you know, and like working in a factory or a slaughterhouse. 2172 02:26:24.040 --> 02:26:28.520 That was like hell, you know, it's not I tell 2173 02:26:28.840 --> 02:26:31.360 a lot of guys in the right who they you know, 2174 02:26:31.440 --> 02:26:34.600 they throw shade on stuff like Upton Sinclair's the Jungle 2175 02:26:35.200 --> 02:26:37.959 and I'm like, okay, I'm like, yeah, I don't agree 2176 02:26:38.000 --> 02:26:41.319 with those kinds of conclusions either. But what he describes, 2177 02:26:41.920 --> 02:26:46.079 that's that's that's one hundred percent accurate. You know, there'd 2178 02:26:46.120 --> 02:26:50.000 be guys, uh, there was no welfare state. You couldn't 2179 02:26:50.040 --> 02:26:52.200 just get like a link card. So if you were 2180 02:26:52.239 --> 02:26:56.840 out of work, like you weren't eating, and basically your 2181 02:26:56.920 --> 02:27:00.000 ability to make a living depended on your ability to 2182 02:27:00.159 --> 02:27:04.440 physically like perform, you know, and guys would die on 2183 02:27:04.559 --> 02:27:07.280 the job. Like there's like ten percent like attrition and 2184 02:27:07.760 --> 02:27:10.440 like a steel mill or like a slaughterhouse, you know, 2185 02:27:10.520 --> 02:27:12.760 and if God for bidding, get injured or like you 2186 02:27:12.879 --> 02:27:17.399 lose three fingers on your hand in some machine, you know, 2187 02:27:18.680 --> 02:27:21.680 they're the big the biggest surplus in any major city 2188 02:27:21.719 --> 02:27:24.040 at this time was like that of like evil bodied 2189 02:27:24.120 --> 02:27:25.000 men who want to work. 2190 02:27:25.760 --> 02:27:29.760 So did did house im have anything to say about 2191 02:27:29.799 --> 02:27:34.879 the move from agrarianism to basically employment where you're providing 2192 02:27:34.959 --> 02:27:38.079 for yourself with your own with your own hands. And 2193 02:27:38.159 --> 02:27:40.760 then all of a sudden, it seems in the span 2194 02:27:40.840 --> 02:27:43.920 of a decade, people are moving to cities to get jobs. 2195 02:27:44.959 --> 02:27:48.159 Yeah he uh, yeah, yeah, he got he got a 2196 02:27:48.200 --> 02:27:48.719 lot into that. 2197 02:27:49.120 --> 02:27:49.559 I mean, the. 2198 02:27:51.360 --> 02:27:55.000 The extrapolation of you know, the household being the center 2199 02:27:55.079 --> 02:27:59.760 of production to people being forced to sell their lab 2200 02:28:00.719 --> 02:28:03.040 as some sort of factory worker. Like, yeah, that was 2201 02:28:03.079 --> 02:28:09.520 tremendously disruptive, and you know it also, I mean how 2202 02:28:09.680 --> 02:28:14.719 mom was insightful in his sociological takedown because unlike a 2203 02:28:14.799 --> 02:28:18.959 lot of people, you know, show Schumpeter's big critique of 2204 02:28:19.040 --> 02:28:21.920 the Marcus paradigm and I'm gonna bring this back, I'm 2205 02:28:21.920 --> 02:28:25.440 going somewhere with this was like, look like Marcus aren't 2206 02:28:25.440 --> 02:28:29.000 really talking about class, like the job you do isn't 2207 02:28:29.040 --> 02:28:32.000 your class, you know, like your class is what you're 2208 02:28:32.079 --> 02:28:37.120 born into, and it's defined by how you relate to 2209 02:28:37.280 --> 02:28:40.799 other people similarly born to this kind of like social 2210 02:28:40.920 --> 02:28:47.920 stratum that isn't really mobile, you know. So in Schumpeter's view, 2211 02:28:48.159 --> 02:28:51.680 which is the traditional view, it doesn't matter what job 2212 02:28:51.760 --> 02:28:54.040 you're doing around which money you have, Like, that's not 2213 02:28:54.079 --> 02:28:56.399 what we're talking about. We're talking about a class, and 2214 02:28:56.920 --> 02:28:59.200 class isn't something you can just like jump up from 2215 02:28:59.319 --> 02:29:04.200 or down from, like within a generation. And Osbom accepted 2216 02:29:04.280 --> 02:29:07.879 some of those premises. He's like, yeah, you know, one 2217 02:29:07.879 --> 02:29:11.000 of the reasons why the working class exists is because 2218 02:29:11.559 --> 02:29:16.920 the social capital, the kind of facilitated no blessedge oblige 2219 02:29:16.959 --> 02:29:19.879 as well as you know, kind of the communitarian impulse 2220 02:29:20.000 --> 02:29:24.600 that you know, stood in for the welfare state and 2221 02:29:24.719 --> 02:29:29.479 antiquity and things. He's like, capitalism like rips all that apart, 2222 02:29:29.600 --> 02:29:31.879 and it makes every man like a stranger, and it 2223 02:29:32.360 --> 02:29:36.079 enshrines the war of all against all not only as 2224 02:29:36.440 --> 02:29:41.360 like an an implacable reality, but as like a positive good. 2225 02:29:41.559 --> 02:29:45.200 Almost so the only thing you have in common with 2226 02:29:45.360 --> 02:29:49.479 like your neighbors figuratively and literally is that you're all 2227 02:29:49.559 --> 02:29:53.159 being crushed like in these in this like industrial labor environment, 2228 02:29:53.799 --> 02:29:57.280 and you know you've got to stand together or all die. 2229 02:29:58.079 --> 02:30:01.440 And that's like what the working claim is. You know, 2230 02:30:01.479 --> 02:30:04.040 it's not it's not a class in like the traditional sense, 2231 02:30:04.200 --> 02:30:09.680 or there's not some like basic affinity between between people, 2232 02:30:10.040 --> 02:30:14.040 like they're your comrades because you're you're like in the 2233 02:30:14.120 --> 02:30:16.159 same way you are like with the guys you're like 2234 02:30:16.319 --> 02:30:20.440 unjustly locked in prison with. You know, it's it's circumstances 2235 02:30:20.479 --> 02:30:24.760 that like drive you together. So and that and that 2236 02:30:24.840 --> 02:30:27.159 that actually tracks with like what marsh was talking about 2237 02:30:27.200 --> 02:30:31.719 in dos Capital, Like if when you talk about alienation, 2238 02:30:32.000 --> 02:30:35.600 he's not just talking about the process of whereby labor 2239 02:30:35.719 --> 02:30:39.120 is not personal anymore. You don't create things. You're not 2240 02:30:39.200 --> 02:30:42.520 a producer. You're just doing this like pointless process like 2241 02:30:42.639 --> 02:30:45.120 over and over and over again. It's dangerous and dirty 2242 02:30:45.280 --> 02:30:49.319 and painful. But it's alienation from your fellow man. And 2243 02:30:49.360 --> 02:30:50.959 even if you haven't to be married, like you never 2244 02:30:51.000 --> 02:30:54.200 see your wife. She she's stuck with some dangerous, dirty 2245 02:30:54.280 --> 02:30:56.680 job like you have. You know, at the end of 2246 02:30:56.719 --> 02:31:00.639 the day, like maybe you like get to sleep by 2247 02:31:00.719 --> 02:31:04.600 saying betisar and occasionally you collide in intimacy and have children. 2248 02:31:05.360 --> 02:31:09.440 But he's like that that alienation touchs and concerns every 2249 02:31:10.479 --> 02:31:13.319 aspect of the workers existence. It's not it's not. It 2250 02:31:13.360 --> 02:31:16.920 doesn't just like remove his labor from his own domain 2251 02:31:17.280 --> 02:31:20.840 and creative power. It alienates him from like what should 2252 02:31:20.879 --> 02:31:23.239 be his community. It alienates him from his Ethnos, it 2253 02:31:23.319 --> 02:31:26.760 alienates him from his wife, It alienates him from you know, 2254 02:31:26.920 --> 02:31:30.520 he doesn't have neighbors anymore. You know that this all 2255 02:31:30.719 --> 02:31:35.000 tracks and yeah, so he makes a lot out of that, 2256 02:31:35.760 --> 02:31:40.200 and that's one of the reasons why this process whereby 2257 02:31:41.760 --> 02:31:44.520 the Vestigel aristocracy, he's able to like hang on to 2258 02:31:44.639 --> 02:31:51.360 power because people were people like bonded in pee andage. 2259 02:31:52.520 --> 02:31:55.959 They are dependent upon like the lord of the manner. 2260 02:31:56.639 --> 02:32:01.879 And this is a deeply psychological process and it's enduring. 2261 02:32:02.239 --> 02:32:05.120 It's in a Hosmon view, Okay, this alien this, this 2262 02:32:05.360 --> 02:32:08.520 this alienation that is a matter of life and death. 2263 02:32:08.600 --> 02:32:10.079 In a lot of cases, it sounds a matter of 2264 02:32:10.120 --> 02:32:15.319 clodial life, like it stands to kill you. He's like, really, 2265 02:32:15.399 --> 02:32:18.079 the only remedy these people have is like appeal to 2266 02:32:18.200 --> 02:32:22.200 the church or to like appeal to traditional social elements. 2267 02:32:22.239 --> 02:32:24.479 That are kind of like the guardians of the culture, 2268 02:32:24.879 --> 02:32:26.840 if you want to think about it that way. So 2269 02:32:26.920 --> 02:32:30.719 they appeal to aristocrats and stuff, you know, for justice. 2270 02:32:31.360 --> 02:32:33.479 And that's one of the things that keeps these guys 2271 02:32:33.639 --> 02:32:37.559 like if not relevant, like able to remain like in situ. 2272 02:32:38.719 --> 02:32:38.879 You know. 2273 02:32:39.600 --> 02:32:41.399 That's why hosbal it. 2274 02:32:41.479 --> 02:32:44.719 Keeps it, keeps the revolution in stasis. There's no there's 2275 02:32:44.760 --> 02:32:46.280 no chance of having a revolution. 2276 02:32:46.440 --> 02:32:50.280 Yeah, exactly, And so guys like a Hosball. And he 2277 02:32:50.319 --> 02:32:53.559 said this was the big problem in during like this 2278 02:32:53.799 --> 02:32:58.159 the long crisis he talked about, because uh, there was 2279 02:32:58.200 --> 02:33:01.680 always like technological innovation in this kind of future shock 2280 02:33:01.799 --> 02:33:06.959 and disturbance, but political cultures were like frozen, you know. 2281 02:33:07.440 --> 02:33:10.479 And that was I mean, that's that's the point of 2282 02:33:10.600 --> 02:33:14.600 like any revolutionary Marxist in the twentieth century. But Cosmon, 2283 02:33:14.760 --> 02:33:20.000 especially because I think that he had a particular emphasis 2284 02:33:20.040 --> 02:33:23.360 as well as insight into sociological questions. He's like, we've 2285 02:33:23.360 --> 02:33:25.760 got to educate people to break them of these things, 2286 02:33:26.000 --> 02:33:28.280 of these tendencies. We've basically got to like break them 2287 02:33:28.319 --> 02:33:32.079 on their short term self interest or their attachment to it, 2288 02:33:32.600 --> 02:33:35.959 because we've got to literally kill the aristocracy we've got 2289 02:33:36.000 --> 02:33:39.079 to allow the bourgeoisie to conquer everything. We've got to 2290 02:33:39.159 --> 02:33:42.200 let them consolidate. We've got to let them create conditions 2291 02:33:42.239 --> 02:33:46.680 of plenty before we kill them figuratively and literally. You know, 2292 02:33:47.600 --> 02:33:52.559 it's a very brutal view of a struggle processes, but 2293 02:33:52.959 --> 02:33:58.799 within the bounded rationality of Marxist Leninism that tracks, you know, 2294 02:33:59.360 --> 02:34:04.479 and there is like a kernel of truth to it, 2295 02:34:04.799 --> 02:34:08.120 not in terms of its ethical conclusions, but I mean, 2296 02:34:08.239 --> 02:34:12.079 like today this is a bit of a tangent, but 2297 02:34:12.200 --> 02:34:15.799 I'm was making the point to guys, this has died somewhat, 2298 02:34:15.959 --> 02:34:20.920 but it's it won't die completely. This is a favorite 2299 02:34:20.920 --> 02:34:24.559 refrain of of dissident people as well. There's gonna be 2300 02:34:24.559 --> 02:34:27.280 a massive financial collapse and a great depression. That's never 2301 02:34:27.319 --> 02:34:31.920 going to happen again, Okay, because it can't happen in 2302 02:34:32.000 --> 02:34:37.000 the state of information awareness. Like to the second information awareness, 2303 02:34:37.959 --> 02:34:41.040 that kind of stuff only happens long to uncertainties. There's 2304 02:34:41.079 --> 02:34:44.319 not uncertainties anymore. Like that doesn't mean the dollar can't 2305 02:34:44.440 --> 02:34:47.200 like bottom out, but even if it did, that doesn't 2306 02:34:47.239 --> 02:34:51.159 mean like you're not gonna be able to buy food. Okay, Now, 2307 02:34:52.559 --> 02:34:56.120 there could absolutely be shortages. I don't believe in climate 2308 02:34:56.280 --> 02:34:59.280 change in the sense of these crazy people who think 2309 02:34:59.399 --> 02:35:04.239 who are stand in like apocalypse cult for them. But 2310 02:35:04.760 --> 02:35:09.280 I'm certain that there's all kinds of environmental factors that 2311 02:35:09.840 --> 02:35:11.920 just owing to God's will or the nuances of. 2312 02:35:13.600 --> 02:35:15.959 Of of this planet. 2313 02:35:16.920 --> 02:35:20.520 I I could easily see famines coming back. I mean, uh, 2314 02:35:20.840 --> 02:35:23.799 and you know, I mean it's if they're if it 2315 02:35:23.879 --> 02:35:27.239 suddenly became impossible to grow certain kinds of crops, that 2316 02:35:27.319 --> 02:35:30.440 would fool oar everything. I mean, so I absolutely do 2317 02:35:30.600 --> 02:35:33.719 not say like crises can't happen. But this idea that 2318 02:35:34.680 --> 02:35:38.840 you know, like owing to miscalculation or owing to like 2319 02:35:38.920 --> 02:35:45.600 a gap in you know, information awareness, you know of 2320 02:35:45.840 --> 02:35:49.760 hours or days, like you know, like like billions of 2321 02:35:49.760 --> 02:35:52.000 dollars is gonna be like wiped out overnight in the 2322 02:35:52.040 --> 02:35:55.680 stock market. That would never happen again. That's retarded, you know. 2323 02:35:58.040 --> 02:36:01.760 And guys like how One predicted that he said, stuff's 2324 02:36:01.760 --> 02:36:04.639 gonna largely be rubberized moving forward. There's not gonna be 2325 02:36:04.719 --> 02:36:07.479 like food shortages, you know, there's not gonna it's gonna 2326 02:36:07.479 --> 02:36:10.680 be very easy to produce things that today him talking 2327 02:36:10.719 --> 02:36:14.280 in like nineteen fifties are hard to produce. You know, 2328 02:36:14.680 --> 02:36:16.440 you're gonna like a lot of these problems are gonna 2329 02:36:16.440 --> 02:36:20.399 go away, you know, and that and that happened, you know, 2330 02:36:20.799 --> 02:36:25.159 And that's one of the reasons why this is I mean, 2331 02:36:25.159 --> 02:36:27.799 this is probably not the scope, but one of the 2332 02:36:27.840 --> 02:36:30.040 ways you can tell, like our government is like full 2333 02:36:30.040 --> 02:36:33.840 of like crackheads and insane people is because if they 2334 02:36:33.879 --> 02:36:38.760 didn't overreach and remotely smart, they could basically hold on 2335 02:36:38.840 --> 02:36:43.000 to power indefinitely. Because this isn't the nineteen twenties, because 2336 02:36:43.000 --> 02:36:46.120 because people aren't going hungry, because there's not a military 2337 02:36:46.239 --> 02:36:49.000 draft or we're respected to like sacrifice your son in 2338 02:36:49.079 --> 02:36:52.000 a meat grinder. You know, there's not a Soviet Union 2339 02:36:52.440 --> 02:36:57.000 whereby you know, at any at any time basically you know, 2340 02:36:58.040 --> 02:37:01.319 some enemy society that's like mobile lies a massive scale 2341 02:37:01.959 --> 02:37:05.120 could decide to like sue for war to remedy the 2342 02:37:05.239 --> 02:37:11.600 kind of uneven power paradigm, you know. Like so so 2343 02:37:11.760 --> 02:37:14.000 it's it's you can tell these people are insane because 2344 02:37:14.079 --> 02:37:16.760 like they're they're basically burning the house down when there's 2345 02:37:16.959 --> 02:37:22.239 no reason to do that. But you know that the 2346 02:37:22.360 --> 02:37:25.479 degree to which, uh that that's also why too. I mean, 2347 02:37:25.639 --> 02:37:29.360 like I said, I I it's it's it's dumb for 2348 02:37:29.479 --> 02:37:32.879 people to claim that people like Missus Harris are Marxists anyway, 2349 02:37:33.000 --> 02:37:36.920 But it's Marxism, isn't just Marxism, isn't wokeism, it's not 2350 02:37:37.239 --> 02:37:41.399 it's not it's not liberalism. It's it's it's it's a 2351 02:37:41.559 --> 02:37:47.000 very discreete uh like claim and series of claims about 2352 02:37:47.159 --> 02:37:53.479 historical processes. And in the short term, Marxists absolutely want 2353 02:37:53.719 --> 02:37:56.920 capitalists to succeed. They don't want it to fail, they 2354 02:37:57.000 --> 02:38:00.200 want it to fully succeed. They wanted to conquer every thing, 2355 02:38:00.280 --> 02:38:02.159 and then they want to kill the people at the 2356 02:38:02.280 --> 02:38:06.239 helms of the apparatus. Like that's whole point. You know 2357 02:38:06.799 --> 02:38:12.959 what what's strange about how it developed in terms of 2358 02:38:13.000 --> 02:38:20.319 actual practice is that it did it did again like 2359 02:38:20.440 --> 02:38:23.520 the like like the the quite literally like the heart 2360 02:38:23.680 --> 02:38:26.200 of the of the Bolshevik Revolution in the real world 2361 02:38:26.559 --> 02:38:29.840 was a place that really had no like industrial working class. 2362 02:38:30.479 --> 02:38:34.959 You know, it was just like basically backwards monarchy that 2363 02:38:35.360 --> 02:38:38.399 ruled over this this this this is this massive territory. 2364 02:38:38.719 --> 02:38:40.440 You know, like the Russian Empire had more in common 2365 02:38:40.520 --> 02:38:43.360 with the Ottomans than it did with Europe. Okay, I'm 2366 02:38:43.399 --> 02:38:46.719 not saying like racially or whatever. Like I'm not taking 2367 02:38:46.719 --> 02:38:48.760 a position on that, so I don't know, people get mad, 2368 02:38:49.600 --> 02:38:51.680 But in terms of the way it was structured, and 2369 02:38:51.760 --> 02:38:55.159 in terms of it being like an anachronism in the 2370 02:38:55.239 --> 02:38:58.600 twentieth century when it finally got brought down, it's really 2371 02:38:58.719 --> 02:39:02.719 really strange that this is where the bullshrep Revolution was 2372 02:39:02.760 --> 02:39:06.520 consolidated and truly succeeded. You know. That's why. That's one 2373 02:39:06.520 --> 02:39:11.120 of the reasons why when I talk a lot to 2374 02:39:11.200 --> 02:39:15.440 these guys. I'm not Jackson Hinkle himself. I don't know him, 2375 02:39:15.520 --> 02:39:17.840 but I know guys in his orbit and guys who 2376 02:39:17.879 --> 02:39:21.000 describe to that kind of worldview. So like, there are 2377 02:39:21.000 --> 02:39:22.760 a lot of there. Like rebuttals to people like me 2378 02:39:22.879 --> 02:39:24.600 are like, well, you can't extrapolate a lot from the 2379 02:39:24.680 --> 02:39:28.200 Soviet Union. It's like, well, I can, but even if 2380 02:39:28.239 --> 02:39:31.920 I accept that postulate, well, I can't extrapolate a lot, 2381 02:39:31.959 --> 02:39:36.239 even by your own criteria, from East Germany. Okay, you know, 2382 02:39:36.319 --> 02:39:37.799 and it's well there you go, Okay, you tell you 2383 02:39:37.840 --> 02:39:40.520 tell me, like East Germany wasn't an industrial state like it. 2384 02:39:41.440 --> 02:39:43.959 I I mean, if you want to perfectly realize, like 2385 02:39:44.040 --> 02:39:46.479 marcis Alana state. It was the DDR. I mean that 2386 02:39:46.719 --> 02:39:49.600 they can't be argued. I mean I suppose like they're 2387 02:39:49.879 --> 02:39:52.440 I suppose they're like rebuttal of that would be like, well, 2388 02:39:52.719 --> 02:39:55.360 that was an artificial state that emerged out of like 2389 02:39:55.479 --> 02:39:58.639 military exigencies, and you know the fact that it was 2390 02:39:58.719 --> 02:40:05.440 beliguered and threatened, you know, owing to conditions imposed by 2391 02:40:05.559 --> 02:40:09.520 capitalists like is somehow like takes off at table as 2392 02:40:10.120 --> 02:40:13.639 as a pure example of practice, but because it may 2393 02:40:15.440 --> 02:40:20.239 you know, the to bring it back again, I forgive 2394 02:40:20.280 --> 02:40:25.120 m from ramblings. I don't feel good, but the uh, 2395 02:40:25.760 --> 02:40:29.440 the degree of which, again like marked actual Marxists viewed 2396 02:40:29.559 --> 02:40:33.479 these things as necessary processes like can't be denied. Like 2397 02:40:33.879 --> 02:40:37.079 Marxist will not be in the street saying like we 2398 02:40:37.239 --> 02:40:41.000 need we need, we need Acne Widget Company to hire 2399 02:40:41.079 --> 02:40:44.399 more women because it's bad not to And they wouldn't 2400 02:40:44.399 --> 02:40:46.959 be saying like we need to text these people more 2401 02:40:47.200 --> 02:40:49.879 like none of that would be like in their horizon. 2402 02:40:50.760 --> 02:40:53.120 They'd be like, we want Acne Widget Company to become 2403 02:40:53.200 --> 02:40:56.239 like as massive as possible. We wanted to insinuate itself 2404 02:40:56.239 --> 02:40:59.719 into everything. We wanted to be able to produce everything 2405 02:40:59.719 --> 02:41:04.159 we needed, you know, almost like magic, and then we 2406 02:41:04.200 --> 02:41:06.239 want to kill the people who own it, and we 2407 02:41:06.319 --> 02:41:08.639 want to take it and we want to make it 2408 02:41:09.319 --> 02:41:12.200 the public domain of the workers. That's what they want 2409 02:41:13.840 --> 02:41:17.799 or want it. Like I said, I I white guy 2410 02:41:17.920 --> 02:41:20.319 like Jackson Hinkel. I think they're playing an important role 2411 02:41:20.440 --> 02:41:24.000 right now if you're any kind of dissident or in 2412 02:41:24.200 --> 02:41:26.079 any kind of actual resistance actor. 2413 02:41:26.200 --> 02:41:30.120 But the really interesting, the interesting thing about that is 2414 02:41:31.520 --> 02:41:33.680 it's the way, you know that these people who call 2415 02:41:33.760 --> 02:41:39.879 themselves Marxists or call themselves communists nowadays aren't because they 2416 02:41:39.959 --> 02:41:44.120 would want Elon to succeed and take over and become 2417 02:41:44.600 --> 02:41:47.639 you know, like my friend Matt says, his own hensiatic league. 2418 02:41:47.920 --> 02:41:50.559 They want him to do that so then they could 2419 02:41:51.200 --> 02:41:54.639 take it over by force. But they shit all over 2420 02:41:54.760 --> 02:41:56.600 him and oh you know, yeah. 2421 02:41:57.639 --> 02:41:59.879 Well, the point that the degree in which these people 2422 02:42:00.239 --> 02:42:03.120 today there just like goofy envy crats who are like 2423 02:42:04.120 --> 02:42:06.520 it's just they're just like people who are like that 2424 02:42:06.639 --> 02:42:08.879 guy's a big shot. I don't like him. It's like 2425 02:42:08.920 --> 02:42:11.639 that basic, you know, and it's like it doesn't and 2426 02:42:11.760 --> 02:42:14.760 like you can only that too is a symptom of 2427 02:42:14.840 --> 02:42:18.440 prosperity as well, because even yeah, you read Ernest Younger 2428 02:42:18.559 --> 02:42:21.600 was a fascinating guy in all kinds of ways, but 2429 02:42:21.760 --> 02:42:25.399 he lived through this stuff, and you know, he kind 2430 02:42:25.440 --> 02:42:28.040 of he was kind of a strass arrist man, you know, 2431 02:42:28.159 --> 02:42:31.719 like he he was very much a socialist. And if 2432 02:42:31.719 --> 02:42:34.239 you read something like The Glass Bees, the character of 2433 02:42:34.399 --> 02:42:37.719 Zapperoni likes he's obviously like kind of a matchup. But 2434 02:42:37.799 --> 02:42:42.959 like Howard Hughes and Andrew Carnegie and and like Walt Disney. 2435 02:42:44.079 --> 02:42:47.399 But uh, you know, and like that, guys like Zapperoni 2436 02:42:47.479 --> 02:42:51.639 are real type. But you know, guys like Younger thought 2437 02:42:51.719 --> 02:42:54.760 these guys were historical giants. They're like, these guys are 2438 02:42:54.799 --> 02:42:57.479 gonna change the world. They're gonna change everything, and they're 2439 02:42:57.520 --> 02:43:01.040 playing an essential role in this historical process. You know. 2440 02:43:03.000 --> 02:43:07.360 That's it's not I mean, I'm I'm as anti communist 2441 02:43:07.399 --> 02:43:09.959 as it's possible to be. I don't think that should 2442 02:43:09.959 --> 02:43:14.200 be in dispute. But communists, they're they're not dummies, or 2443 02:43:14.239 --> 02:43:16.360 they weren't dummies who were just like I'm I don't 2444 02:43:16.520 --> 02:43:18.639 like that guy because he has more stuff than me. 2445 02:43:18.840 --> 02:43:21.399 It has nothing to do with that, you know, Like, 2446 02:43:21.479 --> 02:43:23.840 it's not it's not just like dumb a lumping bullshit 2447 02:43:24.079 --> 02:43:28.239 or like guys who think like gangster rappers or something like. 2448 02:43:28.319 --> 02:43:34.799 That's not like that, that's fucking retarded, you know. And this, uh, 2449 02:43:36.360 --> 02:43:38.760 the these it's it's these like internet guys who have 2450 02:43:38.840 --> 02:43:40.600 never read a book in their life like calling people. 2451 02:43:41.280 --> 02:43:44.799 It's like goofy as fuck. But but no, I think, 2452 02:43:45.600 --> 02:43:48.360 you know, and today I REALI wasn't going aside the scope. 2453 02:43:48.520 --> 02:43:52.280 Don't forgive me for that if it's boring people. But 2454 02:43:53.799 --> 02:44:00.559 guys like Emmanuel Wallerstein, guys who uh, these kinds of 2455 02:44:00.600 --> 02:44:04.799 post Marxist types who do like talk about you know, 2456 02:44:05.319 --> 02:44:08.639 social justice within globalism. I mean, yeah, obviously I don't 2457 02:44:09.120 --> 02:44:12.360 like have common cause with those guys, but they're really 2458 02:44:12.399 --> 02:44:15.440 the only like intelligent aspect of the left. And I 2459 02:44:15.479 --> 02:44:18.239 think those guys are making a comeback because everybody hates 2460 02:44:18.280 --> 02:44:21.200 the fucking regime and like literally everybody hates liberals, like 2461 02:44:21.280 --> 02:44:24.000 everybody fucking hates liberals and things. They're like awful pieces 2462 02:44:24.040 --> 02:44:28.159 of shit, you know. That's why, like I said, like people, 2463 02:44:28.239 --> 02:44:29.799 I mean, he'll throw shit on me all the time, 2464 02:44:29.879 --> 02:44:31.399 and I don't care, Like I'm not here to make 2465 02:44:31.479 --> 02:44:35.120 friends and I'm used to it. But you know, the 2466 02:44:35.319 --> 02:44:39.000 uh they get mad at me, whether it's because you know, 2467 02:44:39.079 --> 02:44:41.920 I got respect for Moslims and view them as like 2468 02:44:41.959 --> 02:44:44.639 an essential part of the new resistance, or they get 2469 02:44:44.680 --> 02:44:47.920 mad at me for like retweeting like Jackson Hinkle or something. 2470 02:44:48.040 --> 02:44:52.920 But it's like they don't understand part of bringing down 2471 02:44:54.319 --> 02:44:57.840 the regime and discrediting it is like pointing out not 2472 02:44:57.959 --> 02:45:01.239 just how morally bankrupt it is, but how like staggering 2473 02:45:01.440 --> 02:45:04.479 like ignorant it is. And it's acolytes are you know? 2474 02:45:04.639 --> 02:45:08.280 And if there's if there's a serious left wing with 2475 02:45:08.399 --> 02:45:13.319 revolutionary ambitions, that's not a bunch of degenerate natural slaves, 2476 02:45:13.440 --> 02:45:15.239 Like that's that's a good thing, man, Like how is 2477 02:45:15.280 --> 02:45:17.559 that bad? You know, like you got people can't like 2478 02:45:17.639 --> 02:45:19.959 take their like personal feelings out of stuff. It's pathetic. 2479 02:45:20.079 --> 02:45:22.079 It's like talking to a bunch of like it's like 2480 02:45:22.159 --> 02:45:24.760 talking to about a little kids or like modeling old 2481 02:45:24.799 --> 02:45:25.559 women or something. 2482 02:45:25.680 --> 02:45:26.959 But the. 2483 02:45:28.520 --> 02:45:33.280 But that's you know, and that's also why you know 2484 02:45:33.399 --> 02:45:37.120 again the like I said, we started out like that 2485 02:45:37.440 --> 02:45:40.959 that dude I'm not gonna name, you know, acting like 2486 02:45:41.239 --> 02:45:44.879 uh I was dropping cap when I was saying, like, 2487 02:45:46.360 --> 02:45:51.879 you know, the it's as nine you know, to arrange 2488 02:45:52.159 --> 02:45:57.959 force structure or to conceptualize grant strategy in like twentieth 2489 02:45:58.000 --> 02:46:02.440 century terms, you know, like the like like twentieth century 2490 02:46:02.520 --> 02:46:05.120 wars can never happen again. That's never going to happen again. 2491 02:46:05.879 --> 02:46:08.760 You know, it's not gonna happen again in a thousand years, 2492 02:46:09.719 --> 02:46:13.440 you know, like that that the end of the uh 2493 02:46:15.639 --> 02:46:19.000 the uh the changing like like everything these days is changing, 2494 02:46:19.760 --> 02:46:21.959 like I you know, like I mean the point before 2495 02:46:22.040 --> 02:46:24.000 about like just today, I was talking to some of 2496 02:46:24.040 --> 02:46:27.520 the fellas about like public education is dying and nobody 2497 02:46:27.559 --> 02:46:31.000 believes anymore. Like those law enforcement like a couple of 2498 02:46:31.040 --> 02:46:33.920 months back, they're like I see in Chicago now, like 2499 02:46:34.000 --> 02:46:37.479 I said, even you know, like like policing is gonna 2500 02:46:37.479 --> 02:46:40.840 be privatized. It's you know in the South, Like I 2501 02:46:40.879 --> 02:46:42.840 mean you're in I'm sure you see this, you know 2502 02:46:42.879 --> 02:46:45.120 how like they're still trying to fight the run drugs 2503 02:46:45.159 --> 02:46:48.399 like it's nineteen eighty two or something. And like there 2504 02:46:48.479 --> 02:46:51.760 was this ridiculous press conference and they like the Tennessee 2505 02:46:51.840 --> 02:46:55.559 Threau of Investigation they held this like press conference. It 2506 02:46:55.680 --> 02:47:02.120 was them Homeland Security atf FBI. There's this whole mass 2507 02:47:02.159 --> 02:47:06.760 investigation to literally bust these like two like outlaw bikers 2508 02:47:06.840 --> 02:47:10.159 like sligging meth and they're like we've were taking drugs 2509 02:47:10.200 --> 02:47:12.760 off the street. And the comments were like you people 2510 02:47:12.799 --> 02:47:15.000 are idiots, you know, they're like what what do you 2511 02:47:15.040 --> 02:47:17.479 think this is? You know, it's like like there wasn't 2512 02:47:17.520 --> 02:47:21.079 like a single positive comment, man, And it's like this 2513 02:47:21.239 --> 02:47:23.040 is like a time war. It's like what the fuck 2514 02:47:23.040 --> 02:47:25.959 are these people doing? You know, like nobody believes in 2515 02:47:26.040 --> 02:47:29.559 that garbage anymore. Now now you got homeland security like 2516 02:47:29.680 --> 02:47:32.920 shaken down, like trailer park meth heads. Really, you know, 2517 02:47:33.000 --> 02:47:38.079 like that's like that's pathetic, man. You know, this whole apparatus, 2518 02:47:39.479 --> 02:47:45.000 the people sustaining it, they're these like increasingly aged parasites 2519 02:47:45.000 --> 02:47:48.360 who can't like adapt to the twenty first century, you know, 2520 02:47:48.399 --> 02:47:51.000 And that's one of the things that swept Trump into power. 2521 02:47:51.760 --> 02:47:54.559 It's the kind of stuff hobsbamb and Franklin, the Marxist 2522 02:47:54.600 --> 02:47:58.280 we're talking about, Like like they the way they would 2523 02:47:58.280 --> 02:48:01.719 have viewed Trump is like you know this, They wouldn't 2524 02:48:01.760 --> 02:48:03.600 viewed him a some like arch reaction areya. They would 2525 02:48:03.600 --> 02:48:05.479 have been like, well that this guy is basically a 2526 02:48:05.600 --> 02:48:07.799 con man. But he's saying he's gonna like sweep away 2527 02:48:07.920 --> 02:48:11.920 these obsolescent aspects of of of state that people like 2528 02:48:12.319 --> 02:48:15.680 don't think serves their interests anymore. And that and that's 2529 02:48:15.680 --> 02:48:17.559 why a lot of people voted for Trump. It's not 2530 02:48:18.079 --> 02:48:20.159 I mean, yeah, there's like people who just like love Trump. 2531 02:48:21.159 --> 02:48:25.000 There's people who you know, like uh, who would have 2532 02:48:25.079 --> 02:48:27.879 voted for RFK Junior, who are just like protest voters, 2533 02:48:28.399 --> 02:48:31.680 but like your average like man or lady, like it's 2534 02:48:31.719 --> 02:48:34.840 not particularly politically sophisticated or inclined. Like they voted for 2535 02:48:34.920 --> 02:48:39.319 Trump because their instincts are basically sound and they're like 2536 02:48:39.840 --> 02:48:41.479 what what what the hell is going on here? Like 2537 02:48:41.559 --> 02:48:44.559 we they'll put together that's a regime they live under. 2538 02:48:44.559 --> 02:48:48.360 It's like this twentieth century obsolete structure. They don't take 2539 02:48:48.360 --> 02:48:50.239 a out on those turns, and they realize, like this 2540 02:48:50.360 --> 02:48:53.120 is like a zombie regime, like it doesn't make sense anymore, 2541 02:48:53.639 --> 02:48:59.760 like why you know, like it's it's and then you know, 2542 02:48:59.799 --> 02:49:03.799 it's uh, it's really interesting to see this develop in 2543 02:49:03.879 --> 02:49:08.200 real time, man, you know. And that's why one of 2544 02:49:08.239 --> 02:49:10.959 the things like part of my vetting process, the people 2545 02:49:11.000 --> 02:49:15.399 who I kind of take on as allies. I mean, 2546 02:49:15.520 --> 02:49:17.719 that's a complicated process. I can't really break it down 2547 02:49:17.799 --> 02:49:20.520 into like criteria, but one thing that's essential was like 2548 02:49:20.639 --> 02:49:22.879 if like we do not want reaction areas, we do 2549 02:49:22.959 --> 02:49:25.360 not want people who think the good old days were dope, 2550 02:49:25.479 --> 02:49:28.120 or that we need to like turn back time or that, 2551 02:49:29.040 --> 02:49:30.920 or people who think that like n Segue is like 2552 02:49:31.799 --> 02:49:35.079 making things like where we take over the government and 2553 02:49:35.200 --> 02:49:38.559 can like manage its puireaucers. It's like people like that 2554 02:49:38.719 --> 02:49:41.360 are not with the program. And I mean now that 2555 02:49:41.639 --> 02:49:43.559 not only is that like not at all what we're about, 2556 02:49:43.639 --> 02:49:47.600 but that's that's got nothing to do with the trajectory 2557 02:49:47.639 --> 02:49:51.920 of history and stuff like that. I don't mean to 2558 02:49:52.000 --> 02:49:54.559 be I don't mean to like abrogate this, but I 2559 02:49:54.600 --> 02:49:56.959 really don't feel good. So if we could, like if 2560 02:49:57.000 --> 02:49:59.799 we could, if we could wrap it up, that'd be 2561 02:50:00.280 --> 02:50:02.200 And if you want to, if you want to do 2562 02:50:02.239 --> 02:50:04.879 another episode because this wasn't up to snuff, we can 2563 02:50:04.920 --> 02:50:07.280 absolutely do that. No. 2564 02:50:07.520 --> 02:50:10.760 I appreciated the conversation at the ending because I think 2565 02:50:10.840 --> 02:50:13.639 that's a conversation that people on the right need to hear. 2566 02:50:14.520 --> 02:50:14.559 That. 2567 02:50:15.120 --> 02:50:17.959 Yeah, I think there's too much of a jump towards 2568 02:50:18.920 --> 02:50:22.440 capitalism solves everything, you know, and I've been reading some 2569 02:50:22.559 --> 02:50:26.360 of List's letters lately, and it's really opening up my 2570 02:50:26.440 --> 02:50:26.920 eyes to. 2571 02:50:28.639 --> 02:50:31.399 Just how damaging the. 2572 02:50:33.079 --> 02:50:38.120 Especially the overseas, the globalism, just what it does to 2573 02:50:38.719 --> 02:50:42.280 you know, the vult and oh yeah. 2574 02:50:42.840 --> 02:50:45.159 What's also why it's crazy these people with like think 2575 02:50:45.239 --> 02:50:48.120 they hate Maslims for no reason because some like Zionists 2576 02:50:48.120 --> 02:50:50.079 on TV told them to, or because they think that 2577 02:50:51.079 --> 02:50:53.879 because they think that like some like shitbig immigrants who 2578 02:50:53.959 --> 02:50:54.760 did something to do to them. 2579 02:50:54.799 --> 02:50:55.559 Is like Islam. 2580 02:50:55.719 --> 02:50:57.760 It's like, man, you want to know, like Daryl, Islam 2581 02:50:57.799 --> 02:51:01.239 has been getting crushed man by globalism for decades. I mean, 2582 02:51:01.319 --> 02:51:02.920 like they're on the front lines of this shit. Like 2583 02:51:02.959 --> 02:51:04.559 what's happening to them is as bad as what was 2584 02:51:04.559 --> 02:51:06.959 done to Europe. Like you're you think that's cool, Like 2585 02:51:07.079 --> 02:51:09.360 these guys you're ops because they're like fighting back against 2586 02:51:09.399 --> 02:51:11.959 that shit. It's like, get the fuck out of here. 2587 02:51:12.159 --> 02:51:14.639 I mean people actually think that way, are my ops? 2588 02:51:14.920 --> 02:51:18.959 You know, like it's yeah, yeah, but it's also too 2589 02:51:19.079 --> 02:51:25.079 like they it's probat of internalizing like enemy conceptual vocabulary, 2590 02:51:25.799 --> 02:51:30.120 like people who they they just like mirror like that 2591 02:51:30.239 --> 02:51:32.920 they use terms like racist or like they think like, oh, 2592 02:51:33.000 --> 02:51:35.479 I'm a capitalist, because that's who my ops like say, 2593 02:51:35.559 --> 02:51:38.799 I am. It's like, so you define yourself, I will 2594 02:51:38.879 --> 02:51:41.479 like somebody like Missus Harris or Joe Biden says, or 2595 02:51:41.639 --> 02:51:44.559 like what some like idiot whet professor says like, I 2596 02:51:45.639 --> 02:51:48.000 I mean, how basic are you? You know? I don't 2597 02:51:48.079 --> 02:51:49.799 use that kind of terms because they again we're talking 2598 02:51:49.799 --> 02:51:53.879 about people like Osbam. I kind of have to use 2599 02:51:53.920 --> 02:51:54.520 a shorthand. 2600 02:51:55.000 --> 02:51:55.120 You know. 2601 02:51:55.239 --> 02:52:01.600 It's like, but I don't. There's not there's not really 2602 02:52:02.719 --> 02:52:04.559 I'm not like a Kazinski guy. I like a lot 2603 02:52:04.639 --> 02:52:06.440 of like you know, a lot of like disient type 2604 02:52:06.520 --> 02:52:09.280 dudes really like head k. I mean, there's nothing wrong 2605 02:52:09.319 --> 02:52:10.360 with like being into him. 2606 02:52:11.200 --> 02:52:14.120 I've cited him extensively. 2607 02:52:14.159 --> 02:52:17.600 I've read about Yeah, but what you called industrial society 2608 02:52:17.799 --> 02:52:20.920 that's a lot more accurate, you know, like. 2609 02:52:23.399 --> 02:52:25.760 And industrial people think that that book. 2610 02:52:26.079 --> 02:52:28.360 People think that book is like I have a friend 2611 02:52:28.399 --> 02:52:31.120 who says, oh, you can take an al Gore book 2612 02:52:31.440 --> 02:52:33.200 and hold it right up next to it and it's 2613 02:52:33.239 --> 02:52:35.520 the same exact thing. It's like, No, he's writing about 2614 02:52:35.559 --> 02:52:39.280 the human condition. He's right, what you know, what the 2615 02:52:40.000 --> 02:52:43.319 what the industrial revolution did or the human condition is? 2616 02:52:43.479 --> 02:52:47.280 And I read outdoor. No, that's fucking retarded. Well, I 2617 02:52:47.280 --> 02:52:49.000 mean these guys are just like say things like they 2618 02:52:49.040 --> 02:52:51.000 don't I guarantee these guys like never read a book 2619 02:52:51.040 --> 02:52:55.079 except maybe like some fucking airport paperback. But I no, 2620 02:52:55.200 --> 02:53:00.920 I remember when the Manifesto dropped in ninety ninety six. 2621 02:53:01.639 --> 02:53:01.959 I think it was. 2622 02:53:02.239 --> 02:53:03.879 I think it was like late summer ninety five, but 2623 02:53:04.000 --> 02:53:04.319 like when. 2624 02:53:04.239 --> 02:53:06.920 It ran in that page summer late summer ninety Yeah. 2625 02:53:07.000 --> 02:53:09.319 Yeah, when I ran in the papers, like I made 2626 02:53:09.360 --> 02:53:11.719 sure like I I read it, you know, and it 2627 02:53:11.840 --> 02:53:15.840 was it was, uh, it was insightful stuff. I mean, 2628 02:53:15.879 --> 02:53:18.200 he's got some blind spots, like especially a lot of 2629 02:53:18.239 --> 02:53:20.319 like Mas Samon types do like a lot of those 2630 02:53:20.319 --> 02:53:24.200 guys don't really fully grasp like politics. But uh, the 2631 02:53:24.239 --> 02:53:27.680 stuff when when he was talking about technological development and 2632 02:53:27.760 --> 02:53:30.920 the impact of production and labor and like how man 2633 02:53:31.200 --> 02:53:34.719 like individually and collectively interfaces with that, that was pretty 2634 02:53:35.159 --> 02:53:37.360 that was that was pretty insightful. And like I said, 2635 02:53:38.200 --> 02:53:41.079 the term industrial society, that that there's a lot more 2636 02:53:41.159 --> 02:53:45.239 meaningful than capitalism, you know, and it's and obviously too 2637 02:53:45.360 --> 02:53:48.799 like a terms inherently reduction. It's like like the capitalist 2638 02:53:48.959 --> 02:53:51.719 is everything he does it's just like stack up capital 2639 02:53:51.840 --> 02:53:53.719 and like assets. Like that's not that's not the way 2640 02:53:53.719 --> 02:53:56.520 people think. Like even some guy in Wall Street who's like, 2641 02:53:56.639 --> 02:53:58.559 you know, kind of a stereotypical walk her Huster, that's 2642 02:53:58.600 --> 02:54:01.959 not like the way he thinks. Like he's you know, 2643 02:54:02.120 --> 02:54:05.399 he and a bay. It's the reason he, Like, the 2644 02:54:05.440 --> 02:54:07.799 reason a guy like that his world is defined by 2645 02:54:07.920 --> 02:54:10.879 money is because that's like power activity in his world. 2646 02:54:11.159 --> 02:54:13.000 And that's like a way, that's a way he can 2647 02:54:13.120 --> 02:54:17.799 like engage in power activity congruous like his discrete capabilities 2648 02:54:17.879 --> 02:54:21.040 and and like psychology. It's not like it's not like 2649 02:54:21.200 --> 02:54:23.760 money is like this ending itself to everybody like in 2650 02:54:23.840 --> 02:54:27.520 the capitalist system. But I mean that's these these things 2651 02:54:27.520 --> 02:54:30.079 are important. But yeah, like again, man, like I said, 2652 02:54:30.120 --> 02:54:31.719 sorry if this was not the par but I this 2653 02:54:32.120 --> 02:54:33.760 it's been. I'm not trying to be a martyr. But 2654 02:54:34.040 --> 02:54:37.360 just because like I do have responsibility to people, I 2655 02:54:38.280 --> 02:54:40.879 thinks this week has not been great in terms of. 2656 02:54:41.280 --> 02:54:43.719 I think people. I think people like this episode more 2657 02:54:43.799 --> 02:54:44.239 than you think. 2658 02:54:44.719 --> 02:54:45.959 Okay, that makes me happy. 2659 02:54:46.159 --> 02:54:49.680 Uh do do plugs real quick? Yeah? 2660 02:54:49.799 --> 02:54:55.639 Man? As always, Uh try and direct people to my website. 2661 02:54:55.920 --> 02:54:59.920 It's Thomas seven seven seven dot com. It's number seven 2662 02:55:00.040 --> 02:55:02.799 and h O A S seven seven seven dot com. 2663 02:55:03.200 --> 02:55:05.120 I'm gonna tweak that some man. I was gonna try 2664 02:55:05.120 --> 02:55:06.760 and get on top of it that this week, but 2665 02:55:06.920 --> 02:55:09.200 it but what it's it's Dope, the kid who put 2666 02:55:09.239 --> 02:55:13.680 it together. He's great. And anytime I drop anything new, 2667 02:55:14.040 --> 02:55:16.879 it pops up there on like the feed. So that's 2668 02:55:16.920 --> 02:55:18.920 like a good way to keep up with stuff if 2669 02:55:18.959 --> 02:55:23.920 you like the stuff I do. I'm on social media 2670 02:55:24.520 --> 02:55:28.959 at Capital r e A L Underscore number seven h 2671 02:55:29.000 --> 02:55:32.680 O A S seven seven seven. The best place to 2672 02:55:33.000 --> 02:55:37.799 find me is substack. That's from my pod is and stuff. 2673 02:55:39.120 --> 02:55:44.360 It's uh real Thomas seven seven seven at subsec dot com. 2674 02:55:44.920 --> 02:55:50.520 And yeah, if in the description, if you could include 2675 02:55:50.639 --> 02:55:53.840 uh the Merse wings too. You know, I'm like a 2676 02:55:53.920 --> 02:55:58.440 big like T shirt and clothes and merse guy, and 2677 02:55:58.680 --> 02:56:02.319 uh that's actually been selling pretty well, which makes me 2678 02:56:02.479 --> 02:56:06.520 very happy. But yeah, that's that's what I've got. 2679 02:56:07.639 --> 02:56:09.360 I'll take care of that for you, all right, thank 2680 02:56:09.399 --> 02:56:10.280 you appreciate it. 2681 02:56:10.760 --> 02:56:11.760 Yeah, likewise, man,