WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:04.559 See the Allison Chains has aged fine, you know, excuse me, 2 00:00:04.879 --> 00:00:08.320 I'm not speaking for the entire catalog. Matt Brown might 3 00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:11.519 be close to my age. I think I'm older than Matt. 4 00:00:11.560 --> 00:00:13.599 I feel like I'm older than Matt. But you know 5 00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:16.519 what this, it feels like your dad at some point 6 00:00:16.559 --> 00:00:18.320 may have gone through at Allison Chains phase. 7 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:19.719 Is that? Is that fair? 8 00:00:19.839 --> 00:00:22.719 They were in there for sure. He was like the 9 00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:26.199 more early eighties hair metal, and then there was a 10 00:00:26.199 --> 00:00:29.519 bunch of bands that tried to like keep that going 11 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:32.560 kind of as the grunge and alternative thing kind of 12 00:00:32.560 --> 00:00:35.000 blew up, so that they were in there for sure. 13 00:00:35.159 --> 00:00:38.119 Let's ask our guy, Matt Brown. I'm guessing Matt that 14 00:00:38.159 --> 00:00:40.679 I'm older than you. But my producer, Porter, who I love, 15 00:00:40.799 --> 00:00:43.000 is a child. He is a young and so he 16 00:00:43.079 --> 00:00:46.200 asked me. Yeah, he asked me a very fair and 17 00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:49.320 honest question. I was very introspective. How has the music 18 00:00:49.399 --> 00:00:51.479 that I loved from the nineties aged? 19 00:00:51.880 --> 00:00:51.960 So? 20 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:53.280 How would you answer that question? 21 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:57.039 Matt? Oh that that's a really that's a really good question. 22 00:00:57.039 --> 00:00:57.280 It is. 23 00:00:57.359 --> 00:01:01.399 Yeah, I don't know if much of it has aged 24 00:01:01.439 --> 00:01:04.200 all that well. It's funny I was having this exact 25 00:01:04.200 --> 00:01:06.480 same conversation with my wife a couple of days ago, 26 00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:10.719 like one of the commercially biggest bands of the nineties 27 00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:15.400 was Blues Traveler. Yeah, who's like now doomed to play 28 00:01:15.560 --> 00:01:19.640 like the Canton, Ohio State Fair circuit and if you 29 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:21.439 play run around I think on the radio and I 30 00:01:21.480 --> 00:01:23.920 were like, what is this? What am I doing? I mean, 31 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:26.159 there's a couple of bands that are going to be 32 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:28.920 on the Classic Rocks, you know, circuit for our grandkids. 33 00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:32.000 But I think there's a lot more tumblewombas in there 34 00:01:32.040 --> 00:01:33.359 than maybe we might care to admit. 35 00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:35.040 Blues Traveler. 36 00:01:35.079 --> 00:01:38.319 As Porter points out as an excellent example, because Matt 37 00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:42.239 I am old enough to remember nineteen ninety four, I 38 00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:45.640 was at a music festival where Blues Traveler was the 39 00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:48.760 open excuse me, the closing act at a festival have 40 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:52.079 included Fish and Dave Matthews band Blues Traveler was the closer. 41 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:56.120 I am almost positive I went to a concert where 42 00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:58.519 Dave Matthews opened for Blues Traveler and not the other 43 00:01:58.519 --> 00:01:59.040 way around. 44 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:02.159 That sounds right, Yeah, it was horror festival, that's right. 45 00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:07.640 It was Fish, Blues Traveler, widespread panic and Blues Traveler 46 00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:10.919 was the main act that. That is an excellent one, 47 00:02:10.960 --> 00:02:12.759 my friend. I'll give you a lot of credit for 48 00:02:12.759 --> 00:02:13.639 that one. That's a good one. 49 00:02:14.360 --> 00:02:16.639 Yeah, I I'll have to think about this a little 50 00:02:16.680 --> 00:02:18.759 bit more. I mean, like, there's there's some classics there, 51 00:02:19.120 --> 00:02:21.599 there are some bands that went to the Hall of Fame, 52 00:02:21.639 --> 00:02:23.639 but there was a lot of forgettable moments. I mean, 53 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:26.159 people forget this. But if you were around in the 54 00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:29.680 nineties and early two thousands for like nine months, and 55 00:02:29.719 --> 00:02:31.479 I'm guessing in Utah was probably a little bit longer 56 00:02:31.479 --> 00:02:37.840 than nine months, Like swing music inexplicably became extraordinarily popular. Yep, 57 00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:40.759 they let they let Big Bag Voodoo Daddy play the 58 00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:44.439 Super Bowl. Everyone just got watched Swingers and had a 59 00:02:44.439 --> 00:02:45.639 collective panic attack. 60 00:02:45.879 --> 00:02:48.280 That's what it was. These things happened, That's that's what 61 00:02:48.319 --> 00:02:51.360 it was. It was the Swingers Call and kid. Swingers 62 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:54.000 is a movie with Vince Vaughan. Okay, everybody, calm down, Okay, 63 00:02:54.159 --> 00:02:57.080 just get your heads out of the gutter. Great movie, 64 00:02:57.159 --> 00:03:00.400 but that ultimately launched the Big Bag Voodoo Daddy's ex pull. 65 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:02.840 Now you're on fire today already, Well. 66 00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:06.439 I listen. I may or may not have been somebody 67 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:08.639 who was swept into that too, right, because if you know, 68 00:03:08.680 --> 00:03:12.000 if you're like one of the nine LDS kids in Columbus, Ohio, 69 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:15.639 and you're like, oh, I will for some inexplicable reason, 70 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:19.639 I already learned how to swing dance and after on 71 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:20.759 Wednesday Night mutual. 72 00:03:21.039 --> 00:03:21.719 Now I can. 73 00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:24.560 Finally participate in popular culture and that poof it's gone. 74 00:03:24.639 --> 00:03:28.400 Yeah, there were yep, remembered it, two LDS kids in 75 00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:30.719 my high school, me and my sister, and so I 76 00:03:30.759 --> 00:03:32.599 was able to introduce a lot of my classmates to 77 00:03:32.599 --> 00:03:35.520 the Lion King soundtrack and the Saturday's Warrior soundtrack. 78 00:03:36.319 --> 00:03:38.479 Now that was my addition to the music scene. 79 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:41.639 Sure, sure, yeah, I know it's amazing that we weren't 80 00:03:41.639 --> 00:03:43.039 more popular if your kids, oh. 81 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:46.680 Well said speaking of the LDS folk and our friends 82 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:50.479 down south. Tom Homo has announced that after twenty years 83 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:53.680 on the job, Matt he is electing to find something 84 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:54.960 else to do with his time. And I've got to 85 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:57.479 say I've often said this, and I don't know if 86 00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:00.000 being the athletic director at by U is the heart 87 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:03.759 hardiest job in college athletics administration, but it's a it's 88 00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:04.800 among the hardest jobs. 89 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:05.599 I Mean, look, as you. 90 00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:08.840 Know, you have to align with the institution while running 91 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:12.759 a department that is probably least naturally aligned with what 92 00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:15.639 BYU is as a university. I think Tom did a 93 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:18.839 remarkable job. He has earned his flowers on the way 94 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:20.879 out the door. So your thoughts on the news that 95 00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:22.959 Tom is stepping down and who do you think BYU 96 00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:23.720 looks at now. 97 00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:27.920 Yeah, it's funny I wrote about this. I think I 98 00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:31.079 think earlier this week that I the longer I do 99 00:04:31.199 --> 00:04:35.680 this job, the more hesitant I am to publicly proclaim 100 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:37.680 somebody to be a good athletic director, because I feel 101 00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:39.199 like I've been burned by this a couple of times, 102 00:04:39.240 --> 00:04:40.600 and like, oh, this guy made a couple of good 103 00:04:40.680 --> 00:04:43.160 hires and he returns my phone calls he must be 104 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:44.959 a good ad, and then he ends up like a 105 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:47.399 gigantic scandal, like six months after he gets the plaque 106 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:50.160 at NACTA. And so I tend to try to, you know, 107 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:53.040 be hesitant about that. But I'll say it on the radio. 108 00:04:53.079 --> 00:04:54.839 I said it in print. I think I think Tom 109 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:57.240 was excellent, and I think he was excellent for a 110 00:04:57.240 --> 00:04:59.240 lot of the reasons that you just mentioned, Like he 111 00:04:59.279 --> 00:05:01.920 didn't just do the things that we can commonly associate 112 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:05.399 with ads making good hires, which at EYU is hard 113 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:10.199 raising money, you know, building a culture that develops other 114 00:05:10.839 --> 00:05:13.720 coaches and other administrators. But one of the things that 115 00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:17.160 I really admire about him, besides the fact that I 116 00:05:17.160 --> 00:05:20.680 think he's like legitimately good human being, is I think 117 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:24.000 it was really important to him about to to find 118 00:05:24.040 --> 00:05:27.199 ways to make BYU Athletics to be a front porch 119 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:32.000 that made that was accessible to everybody, even if those 120 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:34.800 people might have had complicated feelings about the sponsoring institution 121 00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:36.800 or didn't want to sign up for maybe everything else 122 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:39.839 that comes with with with YU fanhood. Right, Tom is 123 00:05:39.879 --> 00:05:44.319 not a ninth generation Pioneers Science Camp person. He's a convert. 124 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:46.759 He's in charge of the department, which I think is 125 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:51.680 inarguably the most diverse and least LDS part of the 126 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:54.759 church education system, and has to learn how to speak 127 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:57.240 the language that maybe comes a little bit more naturally 128 00:05:57.240 --> 00:05:59.759 to people like you and I, and I think I 129 00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:03.680 think he did a great job. It's very difficult to 130 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:08.399 navigate conference realignment. It's difficult to operate a methodic department 131 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:12.360 where their resources don't match fan expectations. And I think 132 00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:14.920 that was true for BYU for a long time and 133 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:17.720 to do all that and to still have almost everybody 134 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:19.800 that knows you and has worked with you, and even 135 00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:22.279 if they're not from the state, say you're a good person. 136 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:26.360 That's rare. And I think as somebody who just who 137 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:29.079 cares about this industry, like not because I care about BYU, 138 00:06:29.319 --> 00:06:31.959 like specifically when we're another I'm sad he's gone because 139 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:34.519 I think there's some really difficult or leaving Like he's 140 00:06:34.519 --> 00:06:37.639 not dead, but he's he's leaving this industry because there's 141 00:06:37.639 --> 00:06:40.439 some really difficult questions that I think would benefit from 142 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:42.519 good human beings. I think Tom is one of those 143 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:43.319 good human beings. 144 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:45.240 I agree with you, and he's always been good to 145 00:06:45.319 --> 00:06:47.959 me and the opportunities I've had to interview him and 146 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:50.720 off the air as well. So I think BYU lost 147 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:54.000 a good one. So during the press conference to announce 148 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:56.120 it was very reverend. It was a very reverend press 149 00:06:56.160 --> 00:06:58.639 conference to announce that that Tom was stepping down the 150 00:06:58.639 --> 00:07:02.800 president of BYU, Shane Rees. See Shane Rees gott to 151 00:07:02.839 --> 00:07:04.360 have the sea you know this matter, you got to 152 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:07.519 have the see president c. Shane Rees went over his 153 00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:10.639 list of you know kind of criteria for who he 154 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:13.399 would look at next for Tom and it was the 155 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:16.240 standard bring him young answer that you would expect to 156 00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:20.560 align with the institution, even said, you know, he's got 157 00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:22.639 to lead with Jesus in mind. You know the things 158 00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:25.600 that they say, and it leads to the question, who 159 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:27.199 do you think they look at next? You think it's 160 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:29.279 in house. President Rees said it was going to be 161 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:31.279 a national search. Who do you think they land out? 162 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:32.480 Give me give me your thoughts there, Matt. 163 00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:36.519 So, I'm told it is a national search. And I 164 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:39.240 could be wrong here, but this is the first time 165 00:07:39.279 --> 00:07:43.480 that I can recall since I've been doing this professionally 166 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:47.759 that BYU has retained the services of like a third 167 00:07:47.800 --> 00:07:50.240 party search firm. Normally you don't need to do that 168 00:07:50.279 --> 00:07:51.759 because you and I could sit down here and I 169 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:54.279 was like, there's only six LDS coaches, right, we can 170 00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:57.240 figure out who the list is is. It's not rocket science, 171 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:01.199 And it's true there's not a lot of people that 172 00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:05.079 have the college athletics industry experience and presumably a Temple 173 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:09.959 recommend right, I want to say there's five, maybe six 174 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:14.639 sitting Division one ads who are LDS and for a 175 00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:17.519 variety of reasons, be that age, your personal preference. Most 176 00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:19.519 of them are not going to be candidates for this role. 177 00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:23.040 I think there's three really excellent, very capable people, at 178 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:25.920 least three, maybe more everybody at b YU, but at 179 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:28.879 least three capable internal people who could do this job. 180 00:08:29.480 --> 00:08:32.639 But the fact that they're working with an outside firm 181 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:36.200 makes me think that BYU is going to seriously consider 182 00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:38.840 a lot of folks who are not currently working in 183 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:42.240 college athletics. The Marriott School of Business is good for 184 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:44.480 a lot of things. There's a whole bunch of CEOs 185 00:08:44.519 --> 00:08:46.639 out there, a whole lot of attorneys that have worked 186 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:49.759 in the entertainment industry in some capacity. B what you've 187 00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:54.279 done this before. I would be pretty surprised if the 188 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:58.919 AD is not either, you know, one of one of 189 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:01.519 the two or three people that are currently on staff. 190 00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:04.399 Like if it's not somebody that's already in the athletic department, 191 00:09:04.799 --> 00:09:06.399 I think it's going to be somebody that most people 192 00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:08.559 listening to this have never heard of. Because it's not 193 00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:13.000 going to be a senior associate, a d at Kentucky 194 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:15.639 or the number three of Utah or anything like this. 195 00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:17.159 This is the kind of world where I think they're 196 00:09:17.159 --> 00:09:18.960 going to look at you know who am I Jet 197 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:23.200 blues because this role is changing so much, right it's 198 00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:25.759 not as much about hiring the best baseball coach as 199 00:09:25.759 --> 00:09:30.159 it is now navigating some really complicated business and legal realities. 200 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:33.320 And that's exactly where I wanted to go next, because 201 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:36.639 this is a job that is a different ask than 202 00:09:36.679 --> 00:09:39.480 it was twenty years ago. And yeah, you know, you 203 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:42.159 could go over a litany the guy who I think 204 00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:45.919 they I don't know if Brian Rolapp answers the phone 205 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:50.480 because he's the CEO of the National Football League. He 206 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:54.879 essentially is Goodell's number two. I think if Rolapp stays 207 00:09:54.879 --> 00:09:57.039 with the NFL, he's going to be the next commissioner, 208 00:09:57.039 --> 00:09:59.639 And therefore I don't know that he even interviews for it. 209 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:03.279 But he is a BYU grad, He's a Harvard MBA. 210 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:05.440 I've met him a number of times. You've had him 211 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:08.080 on the show. He is a dynamic pro and he's 212 00:10:08.120 --> 00:10:11.080 a really smart dude. He is kind of credited by 213 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:14.200 you know for essentially leading the NFL to where they're 214 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:18.000 at right now with their myriad of revenue streams based 215 00:10:18.039 --> 00:10:21.960 off their broadcast deals. But this is a long and 216 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:24.600 complicated way of me asking you a simple question, which is, 217 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:29.200 how has the changing dynamic and landscape of collegiate athletics, 218 00:10:29.279 --> 00:10:33.240 namely college football, changed the ask for what this job 219 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:33.879 is now. 220 00:10:34.559 --> 00:10:36.440 Well, and I would say that the I think the 221 00:10:36.480 --> 00:10:39.879 ask for being the ad at BYU is different than 222 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:42.919 being the AD at Utah, although both of those jobs 223 00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:46.159 have changed very significantly over the last five or six years, 224 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:48.480 in part because of some of the changing finances. Right, 225 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:51.480 you know, DYU is I understand it is not a 226 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:53.399 place where you're going to be able to, you know, 227 00:10:53.480 --> 00:10:57.240 permitted to habitually deficit spend. You're going to have to 228 00:10:57.279 --> 00:10:59.440 bring in revenues that match what do you want to 229 00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:01.200 be able to to spend, and that means you're going 230 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:05.080 to need somebody who is dynamic about finding new money 231 00:11:05.480 --> 00:11:09.960 in a way that aligns with church principles that that 232 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:11.519 you know, you're not going to be able to make 233 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:14.039 come up with an extra fifty million dollars through selling 234 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:17.679 data rights to gambling companies, which is something that a 235 00:11:17.720 --> 00:11:19.919 few other major conferences have kicked the tires on or 236 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:23.240 or deeper. You know, MMR deals with with with with 237 00:11:23.240 --> 00:11:26.320 with beer or something. So whether that's getting even even 238 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:30.480 more creative about earned revenue from sponsorships, whether that's potentially. 239 00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:34.399 Playing more games or other games outside of of the 240 00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:37.679 United States, and trying to engage globally, whether that's that's 241 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:39.679 doing different things at by U TV, all that kind 242 00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:40.639 of stuff's on the table. 243 00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:46.360 But there's also almost a government affairs and legal component 244 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:46.960 to all of this. 245 00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:52.639 Right, everybody who's an AD now has the responsibility to 246 00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:56.360 comply with Title nine, and that is much more complicated 247 00:11:56.480 --> 00:11:58.720 now than it was two weeks ago, and certainly and 248 00:11:58.960 --> 00:11:59.759 two years before. 249 00:11:59.840 --> 00:12:05.080 You know, before then, you have various reporting responsibilities with 250 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:07.320 the Department of Education, which may or may not continue 251 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:10.159 to exist. Your athletes may or may not be employees 252 00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:13.480 in three or four years. You're being sued six ways 253 00:12:13.480 --> 00:12:16.440 from Sunday as part of the NCAA. If you're a 254 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:19.759 Big twelve athletic director or university president, you have to 255 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:21.759 be worried that the big tenant SEC aren't going to 256 00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:23.840 try to muscle you out of big time college sports. 257 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:27.720 So this is a job that's not just about hiring 258 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:32.399 and training and running successful athletic programs, and it's not 259 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:34.960 just a sales job. I think it's a little bit 260 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:37.480 of a lobbying job, it's a little bit of a 261 00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:42.759 lawyer job. It's certainly some backchannel political diplomacy kind of job. 262 00:12:42.759 --> 00:12:45.840 And then at BYU you're also a very public ambassador 263 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:47.840 for the church. This is not a place where you 264 00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:50.159 can get photographed on a fundraising visit in a bar, 265 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:52.399 even if you're not drinking, even if you're not doing 266 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:55.840 anything wrong, because there's going to be pressures here that 267 00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:58.039 are just not a thing that you have to deal 268 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:01.320 with at Utah or with the Philadelphia Eagles at the 269 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:06.159 Phoenix Suns. And that's not necessarily a criticism, that's that's 270 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:07.240 just the reality of the gig. 271 00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:11.799 So I had I had breakfast with a gentleman about 272 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:15.799 three months ago who is a pretty heavy hitter in 273 00:13:15.879 --> 00:13:20.440 our market, and we discussed the dynamic of, you know, 274 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:23.840 where the schools are at locally with their collectives, and 275 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:26.399 he told me that his understanding is bringing me on 276 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:30.679 right now has nine seven figure donors, while the University 277 00:13:30.679 --> 00:13:32.440 of Utaon only has two. Now that was about three 278 00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:34.320 or four months ago. I don't know what's changed, but 279 00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:38.399 do you have a grasp or an accurate understanding on 280 00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:42.000 just how that collective down in Provo is doing. It 281 00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:44.120 seems like it's very healthy. They signed the number one 282 00:13:44.120 --> 00:13:46.919 player in college basketball next year. According to what I've 283 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:49.600 been told, both Yegor Demon and Cannon Catchings are seven 284 00:13:49.639 --> 00:13:54.639 figure kids. I don't know how much of the support 285 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:57.480 Kalani gets on the football side that Kevin gets on 286 00:13:57.559 --> 00:13:59.639 the basketball side, but the football team was really good 287 00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:02.080 this year. Do you have an accurate understanding of just 288 00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:04.960 exactly where they're at down there with their finances? 289 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:07.759 Yeah, And it's hard because so many of these things 290 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:10.519 get you know, cut through telephone, and it's the private 291 00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:12.440 institutions and you don't have to You don't get the 292 00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:14.919 same stuff you do from the irs as you might 293 00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:18.279 for other places. The folks that I trust has said, Hey, 294 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:20.600 you know, there's this kind of meme around the internet 295 00:14:20.679 --> 00:14:23.240 that b what you use basketball budget is just from 296 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:25.879 the youth, It's just just from Ryan Smith. And that 297 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:28.679 isn't true. Whether it's nine seven big donors or four 298 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:30.360 big donors or six big donors, I don't know the 299 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:33.360 exact number, but I know it's multiple people and my 300 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:35.440 understanding and I think we've said this on the year 301 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:38.120 before here too, and that hasn't changed. Is the amount 302 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:41.919 of money and the kind of major financial commitments coming 303 00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:43.679 to be what you basketball are not the same that 304 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:45.600 are coming into be WHATU football. And part of that 305 00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:48.360 I think is just a business decision. You can drop 306 00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:51.279 seven figures on one basketball player and that can be 307 00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:53.679 the difference between playing in Dayton and playing in the 308 00:14:53.720 --> 00:14:56.440 Sweet sixteen. You could put seven figures in the one 309 00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:01.279 football player and you've changed nothing. You really can't overspend 310 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:04.799 on four or five guys. You need fifty five guys 311 00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:08.960 to be a really, really effective team. And I think 312 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:13.120 the rules for roster management in football, especially at a 313 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:15.879 place like BYU, are always going to be very different. 314 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:19.240 So it probably does make more financial sense to make 315 00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:23.000 a bigger splash for basketball. I hope that you can 316 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:27.080 win sixty five percent of your games in conference. I 317 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:30.919 can't speak to where the elite heavy hitter donor activity 318 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:32.679 is happening in Utah. I think that that was a 319 00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:35.039 school that did a really good job of engaging their 320 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:38.399 corporate community, did a really good job of engaging some 321 00:15:38.440 --> 00:15:41.000 of their donors who are maybe not dropping seven figures, 322 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:43.279 but are comfortable dropping high five figures. And you need 323 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:48.240 a lot of those two I think maybe if there 324 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:51.480 are some either a basketball head coaching change or a 325 00:15:51.559 --> 00:15:53.720 reason for more of the basketball folks to get a 326 00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:56.679 little bit more engaged, or some other kind of big 327 00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:59.159 news on the football side, I wouldn't be surprised to 328 00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:01.399 see more of that money coming back out. It's very 329 00:16:01.399 --> 00:16:04.519 hard for almost anybody, if you're not Ohio State, to 330 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:08.679 get the same twelve people to write you big checks 331 00:16:08.759 --> 00:16:12.279 every single year. There's gonna be years when you're just 332 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:14.600 going to financially go for it, and there's probably gonna 333 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:16.759 be years when you don't. And that's going to be 334 00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:20.399 true for most P four programs. 335 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:23.240 All right, So moving off of BYU, but staying in 336 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:25.600 the space, and thank you for doing this. If I 337 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:28.919 could quote Kendrick Lamar, not like us, because there's no 338 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:32.320 way I would dig through dozens and dozens of twenty 339 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:34.799 twenty three nil collective nine nineties. 340 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:38.440 But Matt, you did that. So what did you learn 341 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:39.720 through this exercise? 342 00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:42.320 You know you can go whatever direction you want, just 343 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:44.480 kind of a big picture question. You wrote on this 344 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:48.399 just a few days ago, and you know you learned 345 00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:51.120 about how these collectives grew or shrank to your point, 346 00:16:51.159 --> 00:16:53.799 and how they're paying athletes. It is a topic that 347 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:56.679 all college athletic fans are interested in. What did you 348 00:16:56.759 --> 00:16:59.039 learn as you kind of undertook this exercise. 349 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:02.639 Yeah, and so for those for folks that are listening 350 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:05.839 here right. An NIL collective can be set up as 351 00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:09.119 a nonprofit or a for profit or not for profit. 352 00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:11.119 And if you're a nonprofit, if you're a five o' 353 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:14.960 one C three, you have to file at nine to ninety, 354 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:18.440 which is a form that any any reporter or any 355 00:17:18.519 --> 00:17:21.680 JOQ public person can examine where you have to declare 356 00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:24.640 how much money you brought in and where you spent 357 00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:27.319 a lot of it and who you're paying. One of 358 00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:30.920 Utah's main collective for fiscal year twenty twenty three, the 359 00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:35.559 Crimson Collective, was one of those nonprofits. They told the 360 00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:37.440 i r S that they brought in a little over 361 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:39.720 five and a half million dollars, which was on the 362 00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:45.039 higher end of the collectives that we examined over the 363 00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:46.720 course of the year. I think that the largest one 364 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:49.279 from fiscal year twenty three was Notre Dames that that 365 00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:52.640 was well into the eight figures. That doesn't necessarily mean 366 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:54.680 that five and a half million dollars was all of 367 00:17:54.759 --> 00:17:57.559 Utah's budget, right, there's going to be commercial deals and 368 00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:01.559 activities or other collective activities, our individual athlete deals that 369 00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:03.839 have nothing that don't show up there. But I think 370 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:06.039 this was an interesting snapshot because for a while it 371 00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:07.920 seemed like that was the future. Everyone's going to have 372 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:10.599 a five to one seats free collective. People could donate 373 00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:12.839 to it and and and write that off their taxes, 374 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:14.519 and that was going to be the most efficient way. 375 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.480 The i R s on multiple times has has has 376 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:21.839 questioned that distinction. More and more of these groups are dissolving. 377 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:24.200 Some of them are dissolving just because the collectives in 378 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:26.160 general are going to be less powerful in the post 379 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:28.359 house settlement era. So I don't I don't think this 380 00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:31.400 is the future anymore. But you know, from what we 381 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:34.160 were able to see, you could see, Hey, this this 382 00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:37.319 Utah was able to raise more money than than many 383 00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:39.799 other similar programs, Like it was a bigger fund than 384 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:43.359 Washington's main collective. It was. It was a bigger fund 385 00:18:43.400 --> 00:18:46.000 than what Purdue was reporting. It was. It was bigger 386 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:50.359 than what some of the other schools in the Big 387 00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:54.279 twelve are reporting, which which speaks to some of that 388 00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:55.680 donor activity. 389 00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:57.160 All Right, excuse me. 390 00:18:57.200 --> 00:18:59.319 Moving over to a story you and I talked about 391 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:05.599 when the Biden administration they handed down the Title nine guidance, 392 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:09.680 which at the time indicated nil payments would follow under 393 00:19:09.880 --> 00:19:12.480 the Title nine guidelines. And you were kind of the 394 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:14.880 first guest we had on the show to talk about 395 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:18.680 the potential roll back once the Trump administration took over. 396 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:22.079 And it's not just that, is it. It's the rescinding 397 00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:28.039 the National Lation National Labor Relations Memorandum viewing college athletes 398 00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:30.680 as employees. And then there's the Title nine stuff as 399 00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:32.880 well that's been rolled back. So walk us through this. 400 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:35.119 What does it mean? What do we need to know 401 00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:35.759