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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast.

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Speaker 2: My name is Bill Thomas. I'm a writer, consulting, producer,

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and now podcaster. I am now trying to use my

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experience as the brother of a murder victim to help

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other victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book

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on the unsolved Colonial Parkway murders and I'm the co

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administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with

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Kristin Dilly.

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Speaker 3: My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a researcher,

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a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the

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social media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway

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Murders Facebook page with my partner in crime, Bill Thomas.

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Welcome to Mind Over Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly.

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Speaker 4: That makes me Bill Thomas.

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Speaker 3: And it's been a crazy twenty four hours, hasn't it,

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Bill Thomas.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm exhausted. Yesterday was an adrenaline high. Today, the

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reality of the developments and the Colonial park Ray murders

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are beginning to settle in and we are getting deluged

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with information which we will be trying to sort out

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and pass along to law enforcement to help keep the

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forward momentum of the Colonial Parkway murders happening.

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Speaker 3: For everybody who immediately asked, what are you guys going

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to put an episode out? We hope this is what

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you had in mind. We're doing our best. But as

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Bill said, it's been an adrenaline pact twenty four hours.

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And I was so amped when I got home yesterday

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and I couldn't settle that. I had to go for

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a run around the neighborhood at top speed and I

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still wasn't able to bleed off all of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I will admit quite exhausted on Monday because I

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actually knew this was coming. And Sunday night I usually

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sleep really well. I'm one of those frustrating people that

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just fly down, go to sleep, sleep through the night.

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I figure, if you're going to spend a third of

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your life doing something, why not try to get good

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at it. Pamela, my partner, teases me about being an

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incredibly good sleeper and she wishes she could follow suit. However,

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Sunday night was not one of those nights. First of all,

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Sunday evening, my phone started blowing up with people reaching.

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Speaker 4: Out to me to let me know that people that lived.

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Speaker 2: In Lancaster, Virginia were aware the fact that the FBI

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had conducted a raid up in that part of Virginia,

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which is about an hour and fifteen minutes or so

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north of Williamsburg. Yeah, this beautiful area that I've never

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been to, but I've looked at online up near the

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Rappahannock River.

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Speaker 3: It's called the Northern Neck.

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Speaker 2: And I had to look all this stuff up. Somebody

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asked me today, We've been hearing from a ton of

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people with information which the FBI is seeking. We're doing

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our best to help the FBI and the Virginia State Police.

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Speaker 4: Move these cases forward.

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Speaker 2: People have been reaching out to me, and one of

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the questions that someone asked me today was have you

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ever been to the Northern Neck? And I said, nope,

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have you ever been up there?

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Speaker 3: I have not often, but I think Mark and I

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decided to take a very random road trip there a

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couple of months back. I don't remember for why. I

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think we were just looking for a really good burger,

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of all things, and we were in a rut and decided,

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you know what, let's just go someplace else, anyplace else,

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and let's go see if we can find a good

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interesting restaurant to eat at. Sometimes we'll just go places

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looking for good restaurants.

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Speaker 4: Got it.

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Speaker 3: It is very pretty up there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's get into why we might be talking

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about the Northern Neck with a little bit of a

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conversation about January eighth, twenty twenty four's press conference with

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developments in the Colonial Parkway murders.

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Speaker 3: So you knew this was coming. I had an inkling,

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and I remember calling you the night before and saying,

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I don't want to get your hopes up, but and

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you were like, no, go ahead, and I said, I

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just heard there's going to be a press conference tomorrow,

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and the two of us figured out, okay, it's probably

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about these cases in the Colonial Parkway, at least some

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of the Colonial Parkway cases. I remember waiting on pins

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and needles all morning for you to text me and say, hey,

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there's going to be a press conference at one, and

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then it was wait till pins and needles until one thirty.

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But when we finally got to one thirty yesterday, the

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Virginia State Police, the FBI, and several other law enforcement

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agencies held this press conference to announce that they had

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they classified it as major updates in cold case homicides,

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and at that point they announced that Alan Wade Wilmer,

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Senior of Kilmarnick, Virginia, who is now deceased, was responsible

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for the the deaths of Robin Edwards and David Nobling

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on Ragged Island in nineteen eighty seven and Teresa Howell

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in Hampton in nineteen eighty nine. And that was a bombshell.

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Speaker 2: It sure was off the bat. Something struck me as

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odd and still does, which is the announcement regarding the

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press conference did not highlight the Colonial Parkway murders. In

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speaking to reporters, I did some interviews yesterday and today.

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We want to keep the focus primarily on the three families.

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Of course, the families of Robin Edwards, David Nobling and

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Teresa Howell.

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Speaker 4: I was also asked to do some interviews.

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Speaker 2: Some of the reporters were looking for kind of a

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general reaction to the news and how the other families

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felt about how this might help move the rest of

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the Colonial Parkway murders forward. But one of the things

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that the reporters told me was wasn't very clear that

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they were going to be discussing the Colonial Parkway murders,

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and there was even an odd reference to Isle of Wight,

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which is Isle of Wight County, again without really highlighting

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the fact that we're going to be talking about Robin

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Edwards and David Nobling, one of the four double homicides

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in the Colonial Parkway murders.

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Speaker 3: We talked about that when I was leaving school to

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come back home to watch the press conference, and I

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was wondering because they hadn't said anything in the press

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release about Colonial Parkway murders. We've speculated, you and I

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that maybe they were burying the lead on this and

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that they wanted to maybe make the announcement and then say, oh,

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and we have tied him to X number of other

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cases in the Colonial Parkway murders. Obviously they didn't do that,

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but I also was curious, like, why did they not

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immediately say two of the Colonial Parkway murders cases have

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been linked to this guy.

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Speaker 2: It's quite curious. So what did we learn about Alan

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Wade Wilmer Senior, who is the suspect in question. We

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learned that this guy is a waterman from the Northern Neck,

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which is why we were discussing the Northern Neck. He's

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described as transient, often living on his wooden boat, the

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Denny Wade, and that's named for two of his kids

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who'd be grown ups by this point, Denny and Wade.

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He spent time on the York River and this I

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think is very important, and often docked in Gloucester and Hampton.

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This is really important. He drove a blue nineteen sixty

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six Dodge Fargo truck with a custom license plate that

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said em raw as in edam Raw. Keeping in mind,

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this guy is a crabber fisherman and most importantly an oysterman,

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so the em raw, in addition into being a sexually

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explicit suggestive license plate, also refers to oysters.

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Speaker 4: One would assumed I.

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Speaker 3: Took it to a much different, darker place, which probably

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says a lot about me.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps Alan Wade Wilmer Senior. It's very important to make

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that senior distinction because he has a son who has

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the exact same name, who's Alan Wade Wilmer Junior, who

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would have been, by the way, about eight years old

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at the time of the Colonial Parkway murders. So he's

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a grown man now, but he was a little kid

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back then.

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Speaker 3: And he was absolutely horrified to learn this about his father.

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I feel really terrible for his family having to learn

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that your father is a monster essentially. Yeah, I feel

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really terrible for them.

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Speaker 2: This vehicle, this sixty six Dodge Fargo truck, was very

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dis because remember he is driving this truck as recently

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as the nineteen eighties, and the truck has equipment that's

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attached to it which is designed for hauling, equipment used

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in fishing, crabbing, and oyster pulling. You can tell I

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don't know a lot about how oysters are harvested.

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Speaker 3: Oyster and it is just how you say it.

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Speaker 2: But this truck is incredibly important. And one of the

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things we're going to be emphasizing here on mind Over

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Murder is the FBI and the Virginia State Police and

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the Hampton Police Department and local law enforcement have asked

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for your help. They want to hear from people who

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recognize this very distinctive truck. It's old and faded. I

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would describe the color as blue green. It had writing

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on the doors of the truck, and of course the

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em raw eden raw license plate, and then all of

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the equipment. They almost look like a tow truck would

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look like with the these big tongs. I'm told they're

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called that extend out and are used for oystering. This

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truck is really important. Further, Alan Wade Wilmer Sr. And

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his appearance are very distinctive. He's five foot five inches tall,

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so he is I think the average American male is

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about five foot ten. I'm happened to be six feet tall,

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so he is seven inches shorter than I am. And

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I don't think I don't look like an extraordinarily tall guy.

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I think I look fairly average in height. He's five

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foot five, very muscular, who weighs one hundred and sixty

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five pounds. So if you saw this man in this

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very distinctive truck, that's pretty memorable. And then if you

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saw him outside his vehicle walking around or working or whatever,

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he's very short, really out of the ordinary, and he's

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very stocky. His nickname was Pokey, and he almost sounds

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like a cartoon character. When I heard him described, I thought,

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this guy almost sounds like Popeye. This little guy with

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these big arms is got to be a very striking figure.

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We've got pictures in our show notes of Allan Wade

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Wilmer Sr. The folks from law enforcement did a fantastic job.

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They had a whole photo array of what he looked

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like at various times over the years. Yeah, which is

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incredibly helpful as a younger man, all the way up

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to when he was somewhat older and he died at

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age sixty three, which we'll get into in a minute.

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And then they've got great pictures of the truck, the

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license plate. This should help people. He was a very

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avid outdoorsman. He was a hunter, a fisherman. What they're

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looking for are people that may have hunted and fished

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with him. Keeping in mind, one of the four Colonial

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Parkway murders, that of Anna Maria Phelps and Daniel Lower,

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took place at a hunt club. I know that law

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enforcement is looking into could he have been a guest

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at that hunt club that's the one off Interstate sixty four.

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If he was coming down to the Gloucester Hampton area,

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he might have come down sixty four from the Northern Neck.

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That hunt club, where Anna Maria Phelps and Daniel Lower's

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bodies were found in nineteen eighty nine, would have been

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a place that he might have passed. And we're wondering

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if he might have ever hunted or socialized with the

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members of that Hunt club. So the background needed for

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the life, if you will, of Alan Wade Wilmer Senior,

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is very much needed.

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Speaker 4: Right now.

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Speaker 2: People are really coming forward and contacting us, and I've

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been talking to a number of people online trying to

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catch up on the calls and texts. I know the

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same thing is happening with Joyce called Canada and other

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family members. We really want to try to push these

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folks to talk to the FBI and the Virginia State

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Police because they need more information about this guy.

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Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, and they are better equipped with the tip

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lines and everything to handle the kind of volume that

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we're getting. I know that you're rather overwhelmed with it

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right at the moment, So we do want to stress

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to folks, thank you very much for reaching out. We

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really do appreciate that. As the FBI, I'm sure would

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like us to stress we are not investigators. We are

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not equipped to handle the volume of tips that are

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coming in. Please, by all means, make sure that you

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send that information to the FBI the Virginia State Police.

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We will put links to everything on our show notes,

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and you're welcome to give the information to us as well,

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But please do you send it to the FBI or

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the VSP first. They really need that information and they

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can do a whole lot more with it than too

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humble podcasters, both of whom have day jobs and can't,

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unfortunately go out and do the amount of sleuthing that

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we would.

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Speaker 4: Like to do.

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Speaker 2: The investigators know what they're looking for. They are definitely

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looking to fill in some blanks on this man's life.

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He died of natural causes at home in December twenty seventeen.

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As a result of his death, his body was not

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discovered for quite some time, and he'd gone into an

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advanced state of decomposition, which is again a very sad

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way to die. When somebody dies in a situation like

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that and they're in an advanced state of decomposition as

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he was, they take a DNA sample to confirm is

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this actually the person we think it should be, and

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they were able to confirm his identity. Later on, when

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law enforcement was looking for more information about this potential

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sub suspect in the Colonial Parkway murders, they were able

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to request and receive a copy of his DNA report

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that led to the discoveries that were announced at the

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press conference.

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Speaker 4: Yesterday.

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Speaker 3: I know that I, like everyone else who was watching,

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was holding my breath to see what they were going

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to say with regard to connections to the other Colonial

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Parkway murders cases. I want to quote directly from my

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transcript of the press conference here because I think it's

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very important that everybody hears the wording used, and I

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know not everybody was able to stream that live on

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their computer or their phone. And this is from the

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joint press conference on January eighth, and the person speaking

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was Corinne Geller, who is the pr person for Virginia

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State place. Many in the region will recognize that the

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Isle of Wight double homicide as one that occurred during

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a series of double homicides collectively known as the Colonial

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Parkway murders. Although the similarities in these double homicides, which

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spanned a three year period, cannot be ignored, at this time,

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there is no forensic or physical evidence to link the

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Isle of White County homicides to those other double murders.

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The remaining double homicides, the two in York County that

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occurred on the Colonial Parkway and the one that occurred

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in New Kent County, are still active. Investigations and our

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combined investigative efforts continue. End quote.

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Speaker 2: Let me push back a little bit here, go ahead.

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First of all, I don't know why the Virginia State

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Police and the FBI are suddenly referring to the murder

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of Robin Edwards and David Nobling as the isle of

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white homicides. Nobody calls them that. This distancing language, in

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my opinion, seems to be actually separating them from the

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colonial Parkway murders. Also note the fact that they use

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the expression no forensic or physical evidence. If anything, the

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identification of this suspect confirms that Robin Edwards and David

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Knoblings murder is directly related to the disappearance of Keith

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Call and Cassandra Haley, because we know that Allen Wade

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Wilmer was a leading suspect in the disappearance of Keith

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Call and Cassandra Haley. So I don't understand why the

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law enforcement spokespeople, and there were a number of them,

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and they did a great job, but why they're parsing

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things in this very odd way. I do understand, as

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someone who's been following this case for thirty seven years,

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that we currently have no for ransick or physical evidence

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that links the four double homicides in the Colonial Parkway

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murders together. In other words, it's all circumstantial. But if anything,

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this identification of this suspect confirms that Robin Edwards and

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David Nobling are part of the Colonial Parkway murders. And

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I actually don't appreciate law enforcement suddenly calling this the

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isle of white homicides. They are not the isle of

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white homicides. Robin Edwards and David Nobling were killed in

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a series of murders that are referred to commonly as

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the Colonial Parkway murders, and this announcement confirms that.

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Speaker 3: So I want to follow that up by continuing with

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another statement that they made from Again, this is Karen Gellar,

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She stated quote or we recognize this announcement has been

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a long time coming, especially for the families of these victims.

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What we do hope is to provide some closure to them,

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and we recognize that there are still other families related

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to the Colonial Parkway murders double homicide victims who are

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still hoping for answers. That is why we continue to

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push forward with our investigations. We are not ruling anything out.

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We are examining other cases and pursuing new ones. Our

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agencies are still working to reconstruct the movements and encounters

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of Alan Wilmer Senior, which is why we are asking

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for the public's help.

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Speaker 4: Bill.

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Speaker 3: What did you make of We are not ruling anything out.

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We are examining other cases. We are pursuing new ones.

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That's three interesting pieces of assertion right there.

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Speaker 2: I really appreciate what Kareem Geller and the other spokespeople

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are saying. I think this is quite important. First of all,

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I am highly confident based on what I know about

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Alan Wade Wilmer Senior. I think he will be linked

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to other unsolved homicides in Virginia. I think he is

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participation in at least some of the other Colonial Parkway murders.

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Should be confirmed and fairly soon. He was a suspect

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in the disappearance of Keith Call and Cassandra Haley, and

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that's an unavoidable fact. I know that the media is

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starting to cover this idea that it's very curious that

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the FBI and the renew State Police are not highlighting

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that in their announcement, and I find it a bit

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off putting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the way we were talking earlier. I don't think

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it's curious. I think that they're trying to hide the

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fact that they screwed up very badly. The information about

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Alan Wade Wilmer Senior and his early involvement as a

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suspect in the disappearance of Keith Call and Cassandra Haley

339
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comes from the book of record on this case, A

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Special Kind of Evil by our friend Blame Pardo.

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Speaker 2: We're looking forward to having Blame Pardo on Mind Over

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Murder with us in the very near future. I spoke

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to Blaine this morning and he is more than willing

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to come on and give us more background on his

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reporting in A Special Kind of Evil. The Colonial Parkway

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Serial Killings, the book that Blaine Pardo wrote with his

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daughter Victoria Hester. If you don't own this book, I

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urge you to buy a copy of it. It's available

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online in both hard copy and in electronic form ebook

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as well. We're going to be asking Blaine to come

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on the show and talk to us. The short version

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is that he confirms that this man, Alan Wade Wilmer Senior.

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He doesn't mention him by name at this time, but

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he mentions the license plate which he changes slightly because

355
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he didn't want people to be taking it upon themselves

356
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to be looking up this guy's license plate information and

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perhaps harassing an innocent man. He was a suspect from

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the very beginning of the investigation into the disappearance of

359
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Keith Colin Cassandra Haley. Very odd that this was not

360
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highlighted at the press conference. You're listening to Mind over Murder.

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We'll be right back after this word from our sponsors.

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We're back here at mindover Murder.

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Speaker 3: Now. When Special Agent in Charge Brian Dugan of the

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FBI stood up to speak at the press conference, he

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did go into great detail as to what precisely he

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is asking the public to look for when they send

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in tip information. I want to quote for a moment

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here from sac Dugan on behalf of the FBI. I

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want to express my sincere condolences to the victims' families.

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That is why we're asking the public to take a

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good look at the suspects photos. If you had any

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encounters with him or his vehicle or his watercraft, hunted

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with him, farmed oysters or clams docked next to him,

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spent time with him on a personal basis we want

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to hear from you. We are also interested in hearing

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from the public about areas where Wilmer was working as

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a fisherman and as a tree cutter, locations where he

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may have been known to hunt, or bars, clubs and lounges.

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He frequented a piece of information, no matter how small,

380
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could be useful to investigators. He gives all the information

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about the tip lines, which we'll put up on our

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show notes, and then he had this very interesting thing

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to say here. We recognize relationships and loyalties change over time,

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as do people and their perspectives. There are occasions when

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people who may have had information of a crime do

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not feel comfortable coming forward with that information. This may

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have been due to relationship with the persons involved, or

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out of concern for their own safety, reputation, or standing

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amongst friends. Even though mister Wilmer is deceased, we want

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you to know it is not too late to come forward.

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And again he repeats the FBI tip information.

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Speaker 2: And that FBI tip line is one eight hundred call

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FBI or submit a tip online at tips dot FBI

394
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dot gov. You also have the option, if you choose

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to want to somebody from the Virginia State Police. You

396
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can email them at Questions at VSP dot Virginia dot gov.

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And we really want to encourage people if you know

398
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anything about this man. Now is the time. I thought

399
00:24:47,599 --> 00:24:51,240
sac Dugan's remarks were very well thought out, and I

400
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totally agree with him. We've heard this in other cases.

401
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,839
Over time, relationships change, People get married, they get divorced,

402
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people are born, people die, people get older, and calm down.

403
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I'm still working on the calming down part. People have

404
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,000
said to me even today online that some of them

405
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,920
were reluctant to come forward, and all I can say is, look,

406
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I get the fact that this man is never going

407
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to be brought into court. He's never going to be

408
00:25:21,319 --> 00:25:26,160
found guilty, punished, incarcerated. But there are still people, my

409
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own family included, who are still waiting for answers. We're

410
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thrilled that Robin Edwards, David Nobling, and Teresa Howell's family

411
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,480
have some answers. It's never going to bring their loved

412
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ones back. The rest of the Colonial Parkway murders families

413
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and other families I believe throughout Virginia are still looking

414
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for answers in their unsolved murders and disappearances, and I

415
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think this man is involved in those cases. There is

416
00:25:53,839 --> 00:25:58,920
no question. At this point he's been confirmed with three kills.

417
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We're dealing with a Virginia based serial killer. Now would

418
00:26:03,319 --> 00:26:06,200
be the time to step forward and say, yeah, I

419
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used to dock my boat in Gloucester and that guy

420
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had this very distinctive fishing boat, the Denny Wade. It

421
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has very splashy painting on the side with the names

422
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of the two kids, Denny Wade. That would have been

423
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memorable not to mention as we talked about his trucks,

424
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his physical stature, his look. I think sac Dugan makes

425
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a really good point that even though he's gone, there

426
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can be so much value created with people coming forward

427
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,200
now and speaking to law enforcement. People can speak to

428
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law enforcement without incriminating themselves. They can say I want

429
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to tell you the story, but I don't want to

430
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,079
be charged for something, or look the fact that you

431
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,319
were involved in something that might have been questionable, whether

432
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,720
it's underage drinking or drug use or whatever. Law enforcement

433
00:26:57,839 --> 00:27:01,359
is trying to solve these cases. Do not charge people

434
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,799
for ancient offenses that happened decades ago. If you knew

435
00:27:05,839 --> 00:27:08,599
this man back in the nineteen eighties. Now's the time

436
00:27:08,599 --> 00:27:10,440
to step forward exactly.

437
00:27:10,799 --> 00:27:14,039
Speaker 3: And sac Jiggan made a good point about no piece

438
00:27:14,079 --> 00:27:18,039
of information being too small. So Okay, maybe you only

439
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,759
docked your boat next to his, maybe you only ever

440
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,759
ran into him when you were cutting trees after Hurricane Hugo.

441
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,000
That is still information that the FBI needs to know.

442
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,440
You do not have to have knowledge of Alan Wilmer

443
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,119
Senior committing a crime to call in or write to

444
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:40,279
the tip line. Right now, they need the best fullest

445
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,559
picture possible of what this guy was doing, where he

446
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,440
was going, who he was hanging with. As Bill pointed out,

447
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he is a serial killer. The current definition of a

448
00:27:52,599 --> 00:27:57,559
serial killer is two or more kills. He fits that criteria.

449
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,799
There was a serial killer roaming this area of Virginia

450
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from nineteen eighty six until the day he died in

451
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twenty seventeen. We have to know what he was doing

452
00:28:08,839 --> 00:28:11,759
during that time period. And the more people that come

453
00:28:11,839 --> 00:28:15,559
forward with information, the better able the Bureau is going

454
00:28:15,599 --> 00:28:19,079
to be to put together a picture of other potential

455
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victims that may have been impacted by this guy. And

456
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:23,920
I think you're right, Bill, I think that there are

457
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,759
going to be other cases in the Colonial Parkway murders

458
00:28:26,839 --> 00:28:28,640
that are ultimately going to be linked to this guy.

459
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And I'm wondering if the other Parkway adjacent cases that

460
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,000
we have seen in recent years, like Lorien Powell and

461
00:28:36,039 --> 00:28:38,279
Brian Pettinger, I'm wondering if they aren't going to be

462
00:28:38,319 --> 00:28:40,519
linked to him too in some way, shape or form.

463
00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's quite possible. One of the things that's really

464
00:28:43,519 --> 00:28:49,039
important to emphasize, Alan Wade Wilmer Senior had no arrest record.

465
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He'd never been convicted of a crime, even though this

466
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,720
guy was involved in multiple murders. And I think there'll

467
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,200
be murders outside the Colonial Parkway murders, as you said,

468
00:28:59,359 --> 00:29:03,880
that can be linked to him. Something as simple as

469
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,559
I remember him being at my hunt club, or he

470
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,960
came and cut down trees on my father's property, or

471
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whatever it is. Remember, the investigators know what they're looking for.

472
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:20,759
They're looking to place him at certain times and locations,

473
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and that may ultimately steer them towards creating a backstory

474
00:29:26,319 --> 00:29:29,880
on where this man was. I recognize that this is

475
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,640
incredibly challenging for the investigators to be trying to rebuild

476
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:39,960
this history. Thirty seven years later, every single bit of information.

477
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,480
If you know anything about this guy, I've already heard

478
00:29:43,559 --> 00:29:46,920
some very interesting stories which will be urging those people

479
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,359
to pass on to law enforcement. Failing that, I will

480
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,000
if I have to just get the information to law

481
00:29:54,119 --> 00:29:57,359
enforcement so that they have this information.

482
00:29:58,119 --> 00:30:01,759
Speaker 3: We also want to encourage any one who has ever

483
00:30:01,839 --> 00:30:05,279
reached out to us with a story about an incident

484
00:30:05,319 --> 00:30:08,839
that occurred to you on the Colonial Parkway. If you

485
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,839
have a feeling that the person that you saw on

486
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,279
the Colonial Parkway, the person who's truck you encountered, was

487
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:22,559
Alan Wade Wilmer Senior, please reach out to the investigators

488
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,480
and let them know so that they can place him

489
00:30:25,599 --> 00:30:29,319
on the parkway. It is very important that we determine

490
00:30:29,359 --> 00:30:32,400
whether or not he was out trolling the Colonial Parkway

491
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,440
during this time period. If so, that might be an

492
00:30:35,519 --> 00:30:39,440
even better and closer connection to putting him in the

493
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,400
location and vicinity of the murders on the Parkway, that

494
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:48,039
of Kathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski, Keith Call and Cassandra Haley. So,

495
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,759
if you have given us that information about run ins

496
00:30:51,759 --> 00:30:54,319
on the Parkway in years past, we thank you very

497
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,599
much for that, but we encourage you to please take

498
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,480
that information as well and get it to law enforcement

499
00:30:59,599 --> 00:31:02,759
in what to reform you feel comfortable it is vital

500
00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:04,000
that they have this information.

501
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,559
Speaker 2: We don't mean to ignore the Anna Maria Phelps and

502
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:12,039
Daniel Lower murder that occurred in August nineteen eighty nine,

503
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,039
resulting in their bodies being found at the Hunt Club

504
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,880
off Interstate sixty four in New Kent County. This is

505
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,039
something that law enforcement is also very interested in because

506
00:31:23,119 --> 00:31:26,920
obviously he fits the profile and now we have a

507
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,599
confirmed serial killer in Virginia. I know it's shocking, and

508
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:35,440
we're still absorbing this information ourselves. We don't know of

509
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:40,400
any additional links that he has to my sister Kathy

510
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,079
Thomas and Rebecca Dowski's murder, or the murder New Kent

511
00:31:44,279 --> 00:31:47,519
County rest stop and Hunt Club, Anna Maria Phelps and

512
00:31:47,559 --> 00:31:52,039
Daniel Lower. There's clearly a link to the disappearance of

513
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,440
Keith coll and Cassandra Haley, and I know they're going

514
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,839
to be working those angles hard in the coming weeks

515
00:31:57,839 --> 00:32:01,440
and months and will be definitely reording back on what

516
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,240
we're learning, what we're hearing. We're looking forward to having

517
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,920
blamed Pardo on the podcast. It's long overdue to talk

518
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,000
about his work in the Colonial Parkway murders and you know,

519
00:32:12,039 --> 00:32:15,559
get into some backstory with him as well. On this

520
00:32:16,039 --> 00:32:20,240
new he's more than a suspect. He is a confirmed

521
00:32:20,559 --> 00:32:21,359
serial killer.

522
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 3: Twenty four hours on. It's been a wild ride. Again.

523
00:32:26,559 --> 00:32:30,640
We want to thank everybody who has reached out, who's cheered,

524
00:32:30,839 --> 00:32:34,519
who's shared all of our updates. Thank you for your

525
00:32:34,599 --> 00:32:38,680
unwavering support. We are trying very hard to answer questions

526
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,559
and comments as they show up on our various pages.

527
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,000
Mind never Murder and Colonial Parkway murders. It's been a

528
00:32:45,039 --> 00:32:47,960
deluge and it may take us a little bit to

529
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,519
get through all of those comments and questions. Please be

530
00:32:51,599 --> 00:32:54,240
patient with us and know that we are seeing everything.

531
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,279
We are trying to respond to it where possible, but

532
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,000
a little bit. It's like trying to empty the ocean

533
00:33:00,319 --> 00:33:04,119
with a symbol. At the moment, there's a lot there.

534
00:33:04,559 --> 00:33:10,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I said something to Kristin yesterday, which is

535
00:33:11,759 --> 00:33:17,200
all I can say regarding the Edwards, Nobbling and Howell families,

536
00:33:17,359 --> 00:33:18,400
is that we're thinking of it.

537
00:33:19,839 --> 00:33:22,039
Speaker 4: Yeah.

538
00:33:22,519 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 2: I don't think there's a greeting card available out there

539
00:33:27,039 --> 00:33:31,480
that says congratulations on finding out who killed your loved one.

540
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,240
It's just one of those situations where you just don't

541
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:36,880
know what to say.

542
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. The main picture on the Daily Press this morning

543
00:33:46,319 --> 00:33:52,880
was a picture of Jeanette Edward Santiago, Robin's sister, at

544
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:57,880
the press conference yesterday, and it broke my heart ye

545
00:33:58,119 --> 00:34:00,839
to see it. I know that she's thrilled to have

546
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,200
this information, and it's got to be a relief that

547
00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:10,840
it doesn't bring Robin or David or Teresa back, and

548
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,119
I know that's got to be difficult for them. So

549
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,679
while we're thrilled on their behalf, we know that they're

550
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:21,119
probably dealing with a crazy amount of emotion right now.

551
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:24,480
And their family statement at the press conference did ask

552
00:34:24,559 --> 00:34:28,079
for people please to extend them their privacy, and the

553
00:34:28,119 --> 00:34:30,360
same went for the Howell families, and the same went

554
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,239
for the Wilmer family, who I'm sure is dealing with

555
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:38,239
an absolutely awful shock of learning who their father actually was.

556
00:34:39,039 --> 00:34:41,360
I think, at the end of the day, what I'm

557
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,360
carrying with me and will continue to carry with me,

558
00:34:44,599 --> 00:34:50,840
is the fact that we have two cases that are solved,

559
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,639
they have answers, and I'm I was a little afraid

560
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:55,719
I wasn't going to see the day.

561
00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 4: Yeah for real.

562
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,639
Speaker 3: So thank you to everybody who has continued to hang

563
00:35:04,679 --> 00:35:08,800
in there with us, who is following our Facebook pages

564
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,840
and all of our social media. Please keep it up

565
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,159
and please it is so vitally important share all of

566
00:35:16,199 --> 00:35:18,880
the information that we put up about this suspect. And

567
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,159
if you have information, please do not hesitate to go

568
00:35:22,199 --> 00:35:25,360
to any law enforcement tipline that is available to you.

569
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,679
We will put all that information up on our show notes.

570
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,039
Speaker 4: We can't thank everybody enough.

571
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,559
Speaker 3: It's been a roller coaster, but I like roller coasters,

572
00:35:33,679 --> 00:35:36,519
so hey, I'm willing to go for the ride on

573
00:35:36,559 --> 00:35:38,000
this one.

574
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:40,559
Speaker 4: Fair enough.

575
00:35:42,639 --> 00:35:44,559
Speaker 3: That is going to do it for this episode of

576
00:35:44,599 --> 00:35:46,920
mind Over Murder. Thank you so much for listening, and

577
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,480
please stay tuned for more updates on the Colonial Parkway

578
00:35:49,559 --> 00:35:52,880
murders and the Parkway adjacent cases. Thank you so much

579
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,079
for listening. We'll see you next time.

580
00:36:04,639 --> 00:36:08,159
Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and

581
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:09,679
Another Dog Productions.

582
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,559
Speaker 4: Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley.

583
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 1: Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois.

584
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,039
Speaker 4: Our theme music is by Kevin McLoud.

585
00:36:19,599 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media.

586
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 2: You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

587
00:36:27,639 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway

588
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,119
murders on Facebook.

589
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 2: And finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at

590
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:35,679
Bill Thomas.

591
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:36,559
Speaker 4: Five six.

592
00:36:37,039 --> 00:36:40,159
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Mind Over Murder