Speaker 1: Are bringing into trouble for this. They will criticize the
Speaker 1: flat earthers, and you can see why, but in a way,
Speaker 1: they're almost spiritual flat earthers the atheists because they aren't
Speaker 1: delving into higher consciousness where the answers will lie. They
Speaker 1: don't know what God is. How can you disbelieve in
Speaker 1: something which you don't know what you disbelieve in? If
Speaker 1: they mean I don't believe in the God propounded by
Speaker 1: the Christian Church, that would be one thing, But that
Speaker 1: isn't enough to be an atheist, because even if you
Speaker 1: conclude that one religion isn't explaining God properly, you can
Speaker 1: know God. You can know not to even have belief,
Speaker 1: not even just have faith, but actually know that God exists.
Speaker 1: And what's happened to me is that I've experienced some
Speaker 1: of the truth.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome back to the Spiritual Freedom Show with
Speaker 2: Richard Lawrence. My name is Darren Ball, and this is
Speaker 2: the podcast helping me to awaken your chakras, unlock your
Speaker 2: psychic powers, and to discover true spirituality. Now this week's episode,
Speaker 2: international best selling author and spiritual teacher Richard Lawrence shares
Speaker 2: his own extraordinary journey from his desperate search for truth
Speaker 2: at the age of fourteen to his own profound experience
Speaker 2: of a degree of cosmic consciousness the reality of God.
Speaker 1: Richard Darren, Well, this is certainly one that resonates a
Speaker 1: lot with me, just you know, based one experience growing
Speaker 1: up and searching for truth. Yes, as you know, I'm
Speaker 1: sure many people share this experience. But basically it seems
Speaker 1: to me that this mainstream conversation about God that's out
Speaker 1: there seems we're kind of stuck in this binary between
Speaker 1: what orthodox religions will tell you on one side and
Speaker 1: sort of how atheists will critique it on the other side,
Speaker 1: and both of them seem to be arguing to me,
Speaker 1: at least abo's the same misconception of God. And then meanwhile,
Speaker 1: you've got the you know, this mystical tradition, the yogas,
Speaker 1: the New Age movement paths, which are pointing at something
Speaker 1: which both of these two camps completely miss, and you
Speaker 1: know that God as the allness of creation, which is
Speaker 1: noble by direct experience and not just belief. And so
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of what I wanted to explore today,
Speaker 1: which is, you know, how do we how do we
Speaker 1: move beyond this, this binary in this argument that most
Speaker 1: people seem to be stuck with in to explore something
Speaker 1: much more or inspiring and real, which we test for
Speaker 1: ourselves confess. So in the West, you know, this kind
Speaker 1: of speaks to my experience as well. You know, you've
Speaker 1: got these two camps. Have we talked about the believer
Speaker 1: who sort of never questions the God that they grew
Speaker 1: up with, and then some that do and they're sort
Speaker 1: of searching for the truth. And then you've got the
Speaker 1: atheist who sort of confidently rejects this which at one
Speaker 1: point I would have described myself as until I discovered
Speaker 1: discover something greater. And I think, you know, they reject
Speaker 1: what they perceive is to be this nonsensical idea of God.
Speaker 1: And there are a lot of very prominent and outspoken
Speaker 1: voices in that camp who I think in a lot
Speaker 1: of sympathy from intellectual audiences in people like the late
Speaker 1: Christopher Hitchens or Richard Alpians or Stephen Frye, etc. Roy
Speaker 1: Gervese even you know, he's a he talks a lot
Speaker 1: of it. So I suppose the first question is what's
Speaker 1: wrong with this? First with this kind of version of
Speaker 1: God that people are describing and criticizing here and do
Speaker 1: the atheists sort of have a case? Well, gosh, where
Speaker 1: to begin, you know, I'll begin with this. I was
Speaker 1: once invited to give a talk by this there used
Speaker 1: to be, I don't know, there still is a skeptical
Speaker 1: society in the UK. And they invited me to give
Speaker 1: a talk. And I knew something. You know, one of
Speaker 1: the people out because I bumped into him in TV
Speaker 1: studios and he said, They said, fine, but I'd like
Speaker 1: to pick the topic. They said, all right, well you
Speaker 1: can pick the topic. I think they wanted me to
Speaker 1: talk about the theorist, and I think they didn't want
Speaker 1: to try and rip it apart. I assuw you not
Speaker 1: born yesterday. So I picked the topic, which my title
Speaker 1: was the flaws in Skepticism, and they didn't book me.
Speaker 1: Who are cowards? You know? I don't know. It's a
Speaker 1: strange one. But and there is a flaw in skepticism
Speaker 1: because skepticism comes from lower mind. It comes from what
Speaker 1: we might call a type of critical thinking. This is
Speaker 1: only one of the problems with atheism, by the way.
Speaker 1: It's but I put in simply, it's a conclusion reached
Speaker 1: by someone who doesn't know. They don't know because they
Speaker 1: aren't in contact with their own higher mind. And I'm
Speaker 1: sorry if that sounds pretty dogmatic. Now when you and
Speaker 1: this is interesting. We come back to z every now
Speaker 1: and this very mysterious statement that the Mastery theory has made,
Speaker 1: and it's publishing a book called you Are Responsible. And
Speaker 1: it's a very early statement, I think. And he referred
Speaker 1: to three dimensional mathematics, six dimensional belief, nine dimensional faith,
Speaker 1: and the twenty five dimensional power in this message. And
Speaker 1: these are dimensions. This is not like the seven dimensions
Speaker 1: of creation. I take this to be the tappers, the
Speaker 1: twenty five tappers, or there are various other words for it,
Speaker 1: the various frequencies and delineations. They don't use the word frequency,
Speaker 1: but of energy all the way up and back to
Speaker 1: the source. And if you've got six of them, you've
Speaker 1: got a fuller grasp, nine a full of one, and
Speaker 1: so on. That's as I would take it. If you're
Speaker 1: limited to a type of thinking, you know, which precludes
Speaker 1: inner knowledge for a start, you don't even know what,
Speaker 1: you don't believe it. It's flawed in many many ways. Actually, Athism,
Speaker 1: I think, actually in some ways and I'm probably go
Speaker 1: into trouble for this. But then the atheists have thrown
Speaker 1: this at religious believers. It's a kind of a mental
Speaker 1: health condition. And I say that, and I'm not talking
Speaker 1: about agnosticism, by the way, I'm not talking about people
Speaker 1: just don't know. And they say they don't know. You
Speaker 1: can't ask for more than that. So that fits in
Speaker 1: with Socrates very well, indeed, but who's often taken as
Speaker 1: the father of critical thinking by son. So he said
Speaker 1: that you've got to know what you don't know. And
Speaker 1: an atheist doesn't know what they don't know. They don't
Speaker 1: know what God is. How can you disbelieve in something
Speaker 1: which you don't know what you disbelieve in? Hmm. So
Speaker 1: if they mean I don't believe in the God propounded
Speaker 1: by the Christian Church, that would be one thing, right,
Speaker 1: or the God propounded by another religion, that would be
Speaker 1: one thing. And incidentally, I'm going to throw this in
Speaker 1: the Lord Buddha, who is now on Shambala, does believe
Speaker 1: in a divine creator. I think as a divine architect
Speaker 1: of all creations. Yeah, I only know that because I
Speaker 1: was giving a talk at a Buddhist temple in London,
Speaker 1: it's invited to give a talk on the Nine Freedoms. Actually,
Speaker 1: and the person invited me told me, and it was
Speaker 1: run by some monks, this temple. This temple. He told
Speaker 1: me that. Course, you know, Buddha didn't believe in God.
Speaker 1: A lot of Buddhists will say that. And it just
Speaker 1: so happened I was giving this talk and this had
Speaker 1: been said to me, that Buddha didn't believe in God.
Speaker 1: And the next day Doctor King from an entirely different reason.
Speaker 1: And he wasn't involved in this. He was in America,
Speaker 1: I was in the UK. I'm not sure whether he
Speaker 1: even knew it. Probably did know, but it wasn't about that.
Speaker 1: He got a series of communications about something entirely different
Speaker 1: from cosmic sources, and he told me about it on
Speaker 1: the phone, and one of them was the Lord Buddha
Speaker 1: now Kumara of Shambala. And in the communication from the
Speaker 1: Lord Buddha, he referred to the divine architect of all creation.
Speaker 1: I think I've got that right. Something like that could
Speaker 1: take it to mean God. So it just so happened
Speaker 1: that the person who'd arranged this meeting for me at
Speaker 1: the temple phone me up the day after this call
Speaker 1: with Otter King, and I was able to say and say, oh,
Speaker 1: by the way, I said to him, Lord, but does
Speaker 1: believe in God? And he said, how do you know that?
Speaker 1: So he said so yesterday. So I don't know how.
Speaker 1: And now that went down. I just throwing that in.
Speaker 1: But coming back to your atheist if they're saying I don't,
Speaker 1: there's lots of things. I mean. I was very very sad. Indeed,
Speaker 1: I say this was respect by the way to devout Christians,
Speaker 1: but I was very very sad not to be able
Speaker 1: to take up that religion myself because I was at
Speaker 1: a school which was King School, Canterbury, which was tied in.
Speaker 1: I was a king scholar, tied into the cathedral, and
Speaker 1: you know, it was a perfect place really to pursue,
Speaker 1: you know, a career in the priesthood and wherever it
Speaker 1: might lead in that religion. It was very comfortable in
Speaker 1: the sense of my family were in that religion. It
Speaker 1: would have fitted very well. And it's a very tolerant religion.
Speaker 1: You know, you can have a family, you can do whatever,
Speaker 1: and especially in those days and possibly now, but then
Speaker 1: certainly very socially acceptable in every way. And he would
Speaker 1: have been very convenient, and so I had to face
Speaker 1: that I had to look at the tenets of that
Speaker 1: religion at the age of fourteen, discuss it with the
Speaker 1: dean of the cathedral actually, and regrettably have to come
Speaker 1: to conclusion, this doesn't make sense. There's things in here
Speaker 1: that aren't right, that don't figure, that don't compute. The
Speaker 1: dean advised me not to think about them. He advised
Speaker 1: me just he said, if you know, we all get this,
Speaker 1: but it'll go away. You'll learn to live with it,
Speaker 1: he hakes, And that to a fourteen year old is wool.
Speaker 1: So you know, I can sympathize with people saying, well,
Speaker 1: there's things in this religion that for example, let's take
Speaker 1: the Trinity and this idea that Jesus and I know
Speaker 1: there's a difference between Catholics and Orthodox. And I know
Speaker 1: from my minimal understanding, the Catholics equate or put on
Speaker 1: the same level Jesus and God, and sometimes call Jesus God,
Speaker 1: and whereas the Orthodox see God. I think I'm right
Speaker 1: in saying as being above in the same trinity, but
Speaker 1: maybe a step above, if I've got that right. So
Speaker 1: there are differences, but there's things about the trinity that
Speaker 1: are very questionable. It's interesting they came up with a
Speaker 1: trinity at all, by the way, because there is a
Speaker 1: trinity in the universe, creation, preservation, transmutation. That's the real trinity.
Speaker 1: But you know, you can question these things, of course,
Speaker 1: the dogmas, the tenets that a man made that came
Speaker 1: about through the ages. You could disagree, you could disbelieve,
Speaker 1: But that isn't enough to be an atheist, because even
Speaker 1: if you conclude that one religion isn't explaining God properly,
Speaker 1: you don't know that there is. There's a wonderful statement here, actually,
Speaker 1: you know, in the Twelve Blessings. Actually, let me just
Speaker 1: get it absolutely right, that we can't limit because it's
Speaker 1: about not limiting our concept of God. Here it is
Speaker 1: talking about the absolute, said the Master Jesus says, this
Speaker 1: is the God which cannot ever be limited by man
Speaker 1: or God man. And so if a religion is limiting
Speaker 1: or trying to limit our concept of God, and I
Speaker 1: believe some do, and some of them I believe get
Speaker 1: it wrong and have got it wrong, that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: God doesn't exist. And so the atheists at the very
Speaker 1: least should be saying, I don't believe in the Christian
Speaker 1: view of God. The atheist doesn't know probably all the
Speaker 1: concepts of God that have ever been taught. So it's
Speaker 1: a fool who would say I don't believe in God completely,
Speaker 1: just based on also their own idea that God wouldn't
Speaker 1: do this, and if God existed, he would do that,
Speaker 1: then he would stop suffering, or he would this, or
Speaker 1: he would that. They do the same with extraterrestrials. Actually,
Speaker 1: they say if extraterrestrials exist, as some people say, they
Speaker 1: would come down, they would prove themselves, they would do
Speaker 1: X Y and said, you don't know that you're talking
Speaker 1: as a terrestrial about aliens point and you don't know
Speaker 1: what or why God does it. And I'll just finish this.
Speaker 1: One absolute thing is which is good news, which is
Speaker 1: positive news, which I have discovered in the last few years,
Speaker 1: and we talked about it before on the show. You
Speaker 1: can know God. And the key to that again is
Speaker 1: in the Twelve Blessings where the Master Jesus says, it
Speaker 1: is the I am within man. And that is how
Speaker 1: at the right time in your evolution, when you're ready,
Speaker 1: you can know not to even have belief, not even
Speaker 1: just have faith, but actually know that God exists. Yes, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's some great points that I just want to highlight.
Speaker 1: And then I think there's a great segue as well
Speaker 1: versus that you know, if I'm understanding correctly, it's sort
Speaker 1: of like the atheists who have sort of stopped at
Speaker 1: the point of rejecting one religion's conception of God, has
Speaker 1: there only done half a job? Really really? Yeah. And
Speaker 1: also for us to sort of project onto God how
Speaker 1: we think God would do or this or that is
Speaker 1: the same thing that Orthodox religions have done for centuries
Speaker 1: in trying to portray God and certain away through their
Speaker 1: limited understanding. Yeah, and a sort of level of ignorance.
Speaker 1: So there's there's sort of there's a whole next step,
Speaker 1: a whole vista of possibility after you move beyond the
Speaker 1: God of a particular religion. And that's I think what
Speaker 1: I want to come back to your story. So, as
Speaker 1: you've described, you know, fourteen hearing, you know, the dean
Speaker 1: of the cathedral sort of brush aside these questions that
Speaker 1: you had about the God of this particular religion, Where
Speaker 1: did it take you after that? That's actually literally what
Speaker 1: I did was weep. It meant so much to me.
Speaker 1: And this is another thing I think. Think about people
Speaker 1: who come to religious meetings or spiritual meetings or gatherings
Speaker 1: of any kind. Are they coming or are they you know?
Speaker 1: They we coming for a good experience, for an enjoyable
Speaker 1: day out, to learn something about a particular topic. You know,
Speaker 1: mix with nice people, add a dimension to their life,
Speaker 1: bring some comfort to their life, bring us sort of
Speaker 1: family connection for their children, et cetera, et cetera. There's
Speaker 1: many reasons people can go to religion. But in my case,
Speaker 1: at the age of fourteen, I was searching for truth.
Speaker 1: That was the uppermost thing in my life in my mind.
Speaker 1: It kind of irritated my parents about it, concerned them
Speaker 1: a bit. This was the most important thing to me.
Speaker 1: And this was the religion I was brought up in.
Speaker 1: And as I mentioned earlier, it would have been very
Speaker 1: convenient for me to go into it. And I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people go to religion for convenience. I mean,
Speaker 1: why is it that most people choose the religion of
Speaker 1: their birth. Why should that be true just because you're
Speaker 1: born into it? Have you looked to see and most
Speaker 1: of them haven't. They've accepted it. It's convenient it fits,
Speaker 1: it fits in with their community, it works for them,
Speaker 1: and so that's what they do. So such people I
Speaker 1: don't regard or sorry if I'm offending anyone, as real
Speaker 1: seekers for truth. They are a seekers for something, and
Speaker 1: maybe it's better that they have that religion than that
Speaker 1: they don't. But they're not seek us for truth really
Speaker 1: in the sense that regardless of what it means, regardless
Speaker 1: of how convenient it is is or uncomfortable it is,
Speaker 1: or what it does to my life, I want to
Speaker 1: find out the truth. This is what you get, actually,
Speaker 1: I will say in the theory of society, because if
Speaker 1: there aciety is an unconventional organization, it's not always the
Speaker 1: easiest thing to join at all. It may not fit
Speaker 1: in with some of your family and friends particularly, or
Speaker 1: it might and sometimes it really does. In many cases
Speaker 1: it does, I don't want to put that wrong. And
Speaker 1: we're certainly not an organization that's against family and friends
Speaker 1: or anything of that nature at all, but it's a
Speaker 1: departure from the traditional upbringings of most people. So the
Speaker 1: people who come to us are real searchers. They're looking
Speaker 1: for truth, and that's quite rare. Answering your question, I
Speaker 1: actually walk around the cathedral straight after that conversation with
Speaker 1: the Dean in tears. But I knew enough then at
Speaker 1: the age of fourteen, that I couldn't take to that path,
Speaker 1: and then I started on my search, which led me
Speaker 1: to Eastern religion, particularly when I was eighteen for the Canander,
Speaker 1: and then pretty quickly found the Ethericide. He actually became
Speaker 1: a member when I was eighteen. So it's basically these
Speaker 1: mystical traditions, the Yoga tradition that for you, helped to
Speaker 1: reveal this greater concept of what God. Actually it was
Speaker 1: much greater, and there's a lot in common between the
Speaker 1: concept of God as given in the Etherist society and
Speaker 1: some of the old traditional beliefs in the Eastern religion
Speaker 1: or in the Hindu. Let's face it, it is true
Speaker 1: to say, Lord Buddha, from what records we have, didn't
Speaker 1: mention God much, if at all. I would think he did,
Speaker 1: but we don't know that. That certainly the Hindu idea
Speaker 1: or the Yoga idea. But it goes way beyond that,
Speaker 1: though much takes it much further even than the great
Speaker 1: Yoga Hindu traditions. And I do think that the twelfth
Speaker 1: Blessing delivered by the Master Jesus is the greatest, by far,
Speaker 1: the greatest that I encountered exposition of what God really is.
Speaker 1: And what's happened to me, particularly in the last two
Speaker 1: or three years, is that I've experienced now some of
Speaker 1: the truth, tiny little droplet, that's all, but of the
Speaker 1: truth of what is there in the Twelve Blessings, specifically this,
Speaker 1: although it isn't stated in the Twelve Blessing, this point
Speaker 1: that God did make man in his own emitiatives. To
Speaker 1: use a biblical praise or to put it better, the
Speaker 1: human being, the microcosm of the human being is a
Speaker 1: miniature reflection of the macrocosm of God and that God
Speaker 1: in its glory, and really you have to sort of
Speaker 1: enter into the arena of cosmic consciousness. That's all I'm
Speaker 1: going to say about it, and wouldn't go further than that,
Speaker 1: which I did last year actually in August of life
Speaker 1: next year to really see it was the second time
Speaker 1: i'd done it, but it was much fuller than the
Speaker 1: time before I became aware, and in a very abstract way,
Speaker 1: because you're in when you're in that state, it's very abstract.
Speaker 1: You're not thinking, sort of your your your conscious mind
Speaker 1: and your subconscious mind have been subsumed, if that's the
Speaker 1: right word, and so you're in a super conscious state.
Speaker 1: And then that state you can see God manifesting, and
Speaker 1: the elements that we have in the little human being
Speaker 1: that we are are manifested in the macrocosm of the Absolute.
Speaker 1: And over the months that came after that experience, where
Speaker 1: when I did apply logic and thinking to what I'd experienced,
Speaker 1: so that the experience comes first, the logical application comes second,
Speaker 1: I could see all the chakras, the major chakras that
Speaker 1: we have are reflected in one way or another in
Speaker 1: the Absolute, and it tellies with the twelve Blessings, which
Speaker 1: is the greatest description of divinity that we have ever
Speaker 1: been given, I think on earth. I think you know
Speaker 1: what's very interesting here is that, you know, atheism sort
Speaker 1: of has a position, sort of endures an intellectual debate,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't survive direct experience, as you've just described,
Speaker 1: and just before I ask you a little bit more
Speaker 1: about that, you know, it's this mystical God that can
Speaker 1: be realized through direct experience, which is which is really
Speaker 1: the key, I think, and the yoga traditions of others.
Speaker 1: They all propose these methods by which you can realize
Speaker 1: and experience God for yourselves, almost as you know, a
Speaker 1: scientific method that we can follow, and anyone sort of
Speaker 1: choosing to reject that approach is almost choosing to reject
Speaker 1: the science, science in principle, and even the science of
Speaker 1: God realization. Yeah, well, an atheist is really and they
Speaker 1: won't like this, but they're a person who's saying I
Speaker 1: don't believe in God, and they're not willing to explore it.
Speaker 1: You're using the mechanisms, the methodology which is available to them.
Speaker 1: Be like a person saying I have been proved yeah
Speaker 1: I don't believe in the combustion engine. You could say
Speaker 1: that and you never bother to look into engineering mechanics
Speaker 1: or anything else or test it in any way, but
Speaker 1: you just reject it. That's why I say, In some ways,
Speaker 1: it's a you know, they will criticize the flat earthers,
Speaker 1: and you can see why, but in a way, they're
Speaker 1: almost spiritual flat earthers, the atheists, because they aren't delving
Speaker 1: into higher consciousness where the answers will lie. They want
Speaker 1: to really know and they want to have some grounding
Speaker 1: for their faith. And their belief. And although I have
Speaker 1: myself just now said that the church a Christian Church,
Speaker 1: not Christianity, but the Christian Church dogmas and teachings didn't
Speaker 1: stack up for me, and therefore I couldn't take to
Speaker 1: the path. You know, I wouldn't do what some bishops did.
Speaker 1: And actually I think there was an archbishop of York.
Speaker 1: I think I'm run saying who didn't believe in God,
Speaker 1: or I might be wrong there, but there was certainly
Speaker 1: a priest who didn't believe in God, and he's I
Speaker 1: think he didn't believe in the crucifixion, the resurrection. So
Speaker 1: that would be dishonorable to take up that path and
Speaker 1: then not you know that. Yeah, so that's why I
Speaker 1: knew I couldn't. But on the other hand, I do
Speaker 1: respect people who have faith. I mean, there's some tremendous
Speaker 1: people in history who advand quite a long way. Theresa
Speaker 1: of a Villa would be one hus and Catherine of Siena.
Speaker 1: I think it would be another, you know, through that
Speaker 1: traditional path, and it probably was all that was available
Speaker 1: to them then, the only path they could take. Now
Speaker 1: that isn't true. Now you have the opportunity to search
Speaker 1: to investigate whether something is unpalatable. Whether you like something
Speaker 1: or not, whether it's convenient or not, has nothing to
Speaker 1: do with whether it's truth true. It might be an
Speaker 1: inconvenient truth, yes, I think what's interesting is that, you know,
Speaker 1: you're an example of many others who have who have
Speaker 1: come before, great saints and sages who have sort of
Speaker 1: converged on the same truth to experience by applying the
Speaker 1: sort of scientific method of God realization, which has been
Speaker 1: proved as the way that you can experience God. And
Speaker 1: I guess my question as follow up to that would be,
Speaker 1: you know, what is it that you sort of knew
Speaker 1: differently after the experienced versus before. After the experience, I
Speaker 1: started to fill in the details because I knew absolutely
Speaker 1: new and I know that God made man in his
Speaker 1: own image, which I didn't believe before, because there's a
Speaker 1: whole misnomer about it, which is that, you know, HiT's
Speaker 1: ridiculous really that when people in the traditional church depict God,
Speaker 1: they used to depict him as a man with a
Speaker 1: gray hair and a long beard or you know, so
Speaker 1: they were making, as others have said, God in man's
Speaker 1: image as opposed to man being in God's images. So
Speaker 1: in the state. For example, I was aware of the
Speaker 1: gaseous flows of energy throughout the cosmos, just to name
Speaker 1: one thing. And I knew that they were expressions which
Speaker 1: could be reflected in the human and being. So afterwards,
Speaker 1: and I knew that although God wouldn't be limited to
Speaker 1: a particular number of chakras or major chakras in the
Speaker 1: same way that we are, that our seven major chakras
Speaker 1: would be reflected in some way in the Absolute. I see,
Speaker 1: and this is some of the things that I knew
Speaker 1: after that state. Knew the tremendous love of God in
Speaker 1: a way I had never experienced it before. But I
Speaker 1: then found I mean, actually, in the teachings of the Society,
Speaker 1: you have a few direct illusions. I've mentioned the Twelve Blessings,
Speaker 1: but in the Nine Freedoms Mars sec six are talking
Speaker 1: about lords of Saturn, who are the most elevated masters
Speaker 1: in this solar system. Describes a Lord of Saturn as quote,
Speaker 1: an active blood vessel in the arm of the Absolute.
Speaker 1: So that is, if you like a human imagery applied
Speaker 1: to divinity. Now you've got some specifics in the Twelve
Speaker 1: Blessings which really help you to see it. So and
Speaker 1: I could see this very quickly. So for example, we're
Speaker 1: told there are seven central sons or supreme lords of creation.
Speaker 1: It's a number they've obviously chosen to be. They could
Speaker 1: be any number they wanted to preme laws of chreation.
Speaker 1: Without going into it all, I recommend people to read
Speaker 1: the Twelve Blessings. But it is stated in that that
Speaker 1: these are its hearts, so I take that literally as
Speaker 1: that they represent the heart chakra of the absolute. And
Speaker 1: then the one within the center is its brain, and
Speaker 1: I take that actually to be the Christ center, not
Speaker 1: the crown center, but the brain center, which in the
Speaker 1: human being would be a third eye. And some of
Speaker 1: them then become became very clear to me, like the
Speaker 1: You also don't forget that the chakras are tied into
Speaker 1: various elements mystically speaking, mystical elements, not chemical elements, so
Speaker 1: that the base center is tied into Earth. And so
Speaker 1: I could see that the base center of the universe
Speaker 1: would be the physical substance on from frequencies, which was
Speaker 1: also very clear to me in this state, all manifesting
Speaker 1: on different frequencies, all as one, but the physical substances,
Speaker 1: and this is this is my what I've experienced. People
Speaker 1: can sure, well that's it. They can keep an open
Speaker 1: mind whatever they like. But the physical substance would be
Speaker 1: the way that the divinity expressed. What in the human
Speaker 1: being would be the base center. Because the interesting thing here,
Speaker 1: by the way, and we've talked about this before, is
Speaker 1: that the journey of the universe is the same the
Speaker 1: journey as our journey, and the journey is arising. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's a rising. And you know, you have different words
Speaker 1: from different cosmic masters. So for example, the Jupiterians very
Speaker 1: often Jupiter sector nine two or Jupiter nine two, we'll
Speaker 1: talk about rising, riiseo, man, it's a rising. You might
Speaker 1: find a word sensitizing, say from the Master Theorius. You
Speaker 1: might find transmutation from another master and from the master
Speaker 1: Theorists as well. But these different words all have the
Speaker 1: same thing. So the whole universe is going to rise
Speaker 1: through these various aspects of its being, back through transmutation
Speaker 1: to its reality again. But as the Master Jesus brilliantly
Speaker 1: puts it, returning to the god Head. As conscious gods,
Speaker 1: you return with something. So you are to use a phrase.
Speaker 1: All in all, that's the totality of creation and all
Speaker 1: in all that that is the unmanifested divinity. So I'm
Speaker 1: blaggoning to complicate it here. It doesn't say all in
Speaker 1: all and that. It says in all and all in
Speaker 1: all that. So you take with you another word way
Speaker 1: of saying it, the all in all back to that
Speaker 1: which is like the meaning of creation, isn't it? It
Speaker 1: is the meaning of creation, It's the purpose. And so
Speaker 1: in the human being, the same thing is represented through
Speaker 1: the rising of the energies through all the chakras. So
Speaker 1: I said I was on the base center there, so
Speaker 1: that the sex center, which is associated with the element
Speaker 1: of water, would be the fluid elements, including gaseous fluid elements.
Speaker 1: You know, you have gaseous oceans on certain planets as well,
Speaker 1: are varying kinds, and so it's not just water per se.
Speaker 1: There's far more water anyway, or oceans than they realized.
Speaker 1: They're starting to find, I believe. So that element, however,
Speaker 1: it's manifesting, that would be an expression in the total
Speaker 1: totality of the absolute of that aspect, which would also
Speaker 1: have to be risen. And then of course the solar
Speaker 1: plexus fire the suns, the suns throughout which the universe.
Speaker 1: That's why we know. Really, I think it's it's Saint
Speaker 1: John's in the beginning there was light, I think. And
Speaker 1: of course that the god of the Bible is the Sun. Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: that makes sense to see, so that that's this. This
Speaker 1: is not the central suns, which are the sources of
Speaker 1: all energy, which are as I mentioned, they're referred to
Speaker 1: in there as the hearts from all energy comes from there,
Speaker 1: as it does from your heart chakra through your heart
Speaker 1: or love energy. Yes, and then of course they're an
Speaker 1: interesting one, very interesting one of course, would be the
Speaker 1: It took me a while to meditate on this, the throat,
Speaker 1: but the throat chakra of course, to the element of
Speaker 1: that is a kasha, a kasher, they would say, or ether,
Speaker 1: and that would be space, the space within which all
Speaker 1: things exist, all energies even exist space itself as a thing,
Speaker 1: a thing. And then you come to the brain, because
Speaker 1: don't forget, the brain of the absolute is not was.
Speaker 1: This is another interesting the former of the great cause
Speaker 1: it's formed in that brain. It comes before potential, but
Speaker 1: in manifestation it's the brain. The brain in manifestation I guess,
Speaker 1: as the former it's always emerging as the form of yes,
Speaker 1: it's this, this, this is something else. I realized that
Speaker 1: creation isn't finite. That we've had creation. Now let's have preservation.
Speaker 1: Then we'll have transmutation. There is no time phasing. Time
Speaker 1: is our concept. They're not limited. It's not limited by time.
Speaker 1: So it's all happening all the time. Yes, eventually the
Speaker 1: stage after the end will come whatever. That's a mystical
Speaker 1: concept in itself. And then I think, you know what
Speaker 1: do you what's okay? So that's the brain and the
Speaker 1: crown center, of course, is what I said earlier. All
Speaker 1: in all and all that it's the totaltality of all existence.
Speaker 1: That's why the Brahma chakra or crown center, I believe,
Speaker 1: was often depicted as having a thousand petals. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: because it's not a thousand, you know, as opposed to
Speaker 1: nine hundred night it's like a numerous. It's unlimited. Of course,
Speaker 1: that's the chakra. You have to at least enter to
Speaker 1: a degree, and that's all I would claim, no more
Speaker 1: than that to a degree in order to have a
Speaker 1: cosmic consciousness experience. I mean, I think in here is
Speaker 1: great evidence of you know what can be realized through
Speaker 1: this state. I think, you know, just just relating it
Speaker 1: back to you know, my own, my own journey, it's
Speaker 1: there's there's very definitely a sort of like a step
Speaker 1: change between just looking at the world and these things
Speaker 1: through the intellect and starting to move beyond that to
Speaker 1: the intuition. Yeah, and starting to use the intuition as
Speaker 1: a tool to understand our reality more. And that's essentially
Speaker 1: from a chakra point of view and moved from the
Speaker 1: solar plexus to the heart chakra activation of But you know,
Speaker 1: I agree, But I'd also like to say the intellect
Speaker 1: is very, very valuable because in a way you could say,
Speaker 1: although I did meditate, I didn't get the realizations through intellect,
Speaker 1: I did apply intellect to it and across reference it
Speaker 1: to understand it. This gave me the understanding, like the translation.
Speaker 1: So it's very valuable, and it's very important that it
Speaker 1: shouldn't be thrown out, as some New Age teachers seem
Speaker 1: to do, as being a useless vehicle. It's not useless.
Speaker 1: It's essential, as is debit, as are all the faculties
Speaker 1: of all the chakras, they all used, they're all usable,
Speaker 1: but the greatest revelations won't come from the lower chakras.
Speaker 1: And this is really what the atheist's problem is, that
Speaker 1: they are purely using, in a limited way, aspects of
Speaker 1: the lower chakras. If they went further, I think they'd
Speaker 1: find paradoxes. They'd certainly have to come up. And if
Speaker 1: they were sorry, just use this. This may be rude,
Speaker 1: but more intelligent, they'd have to say, they don't know.
Speaker 1: They don't know that all mystics are our role. They
Speaker 1: don't know any of this. They might think so, but
Speaker 1: the atheist of somebody who says they know, and as
Speaker 1: I kind of described it, it's a bad guess, and
Speaker 1: it's only a guess, and it's not a good one.
Speaker 1: If you had to sort of summarize at a nutshot,
Speaker 1: then hear what you might say to a thoughtful apetheist
Speaker 1: who was sort of who had made a sincere effort
Speaker 1: in one of these orthodox religions, as you know, as
Speaker 1: you had in the beginning, as I had even in
Speaker 1: the beginning, and it's sort of just hadn't been able
Speaker 1: to accept God as has described in such a way.
Speaker 1: How would you invite them to sort of take that next? Well,
Speaker 1: I would, Yeah, I mean, I would respect them, because
Speaker 1: you know, I would assume that. I mean, it'd all
Speaker 1: depend whether they were jolly glad or whether they regretted
Speaker 1: it a bit anyway, But what what did you do next?
Speaker 1: Would be my first question. Okay, you found this wasn't true,
Speaker 1: then what did you do? If they said, well, I
Speaker 1: just carried on living my material life and enjoyed it
Speaker 1: and thought, okay, then they're not a searcher. M But
Speaker 1: if they said I'm really disappointed, I'd fully respect them
Speaker 1: and I'd understand it completely, and i'd sort of try
Speaker 1: and gently say, well, of course, just because you're disappointed
Speaker 1: in some of those teachings. By the way, it doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that Jesus wasn't true, right, because there's a lot
Speaker 1: of distortions in the Bible and there's a lot of
Speaker 1: man made dogmas there. Let's start with that. It doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that religion isn't true. All you know is that
Speaker 1: somewhere where you have been to investigate, you found things
Speaker 1: that weren't true. You may have found things that were
Speaker 1: true as well, So now you carry on your search,
Speaker 1: don't give up. And you know my case, I looked
Speaker 1: to the east, which was very fashionable as it happened
Speaker 1: at the time. I didn't do it because its fashion.
Speaker 1: The Beatles had just gone over to or recently gone
Speaker 1: over to. The Gurus were quite in fashion at the time,
Speaker 1: and a lot of students were doing it. But I
Speaker 1: was doing it as a genuine search. Those people are
Speaker 1: probably now. I don't know hedge fund managers, but you
Speaker 1: know it was just a fashion then. But you know,
Speaker 1: if you keep knocking on the door, this is what
Speaker 1: I'd say will be opened unto you. If you put
Speaker 1: your energy in your effort, you will get the answers
Speaker 1: and you'll be helped. I was certainly helped when I
Speaker 1: went to Whole University. By the way, I only went
Speaker 1: there for one reason. I went there because it's the
Speaker 1: only university that did the subject that I wanted to
Speaker 1: do at that time. I'd wanted to study philosophy and
Speaker 1: theology at Oxford. That's what I was aiming to do
Speaker 1: until I found out the syllabus wasn't about truth. As
Speaker 1: one of my my English teachers said, you don't want
Speaker 1: to do this Lawrence, because he showed me the syllabus
Speaker 1: and it was nothing to do with my search. He said,
Speaker 1: why are you doing it anyway. So I want to know,
Speaker 1: I want to find the truth, said when you weren't
Speaker 1: found it there? And I looked at the syllabus and
Speaker 1: he was right at that time in that college so
Speaker 1: well that course. So then my father said, we'll just
Speaker 1: do what you do all the time, which is music
Speaker 1: and drama. And there was only one university that did it.
Speaker 1: I was traveling up there on the on the train,
Speaker 1: and I knew somehow that I would find the answer
Speaker 1: there that i'd been looking for, really looking for, and
Speaker 1: I didn't know how, why or what have you? And
Speaker 1: I remember on the train, you know you can join
Speaker 1: up various societies in the Union, and I joined too.
Speaker 1: One was a Buddhist and Danta Society, and I thought
Speaker 1: I'd do that, And the other was the Mountaineering Society,
Speaker 1: and I did that, and I thought, I've had no
Speaker 1: interest in mountain. What a ridiculous thing that I joined
Speaker 1: the Mountaineering Society and the Buddhist and for Danta society.
Speaker 1: I got up there fairly soon after i'd been I
Speaker 1: found Swami Vivi Canandra along the way, and some wonderful
Speaker 1: things there. But my great friend John Holder, who was
Speaker 1: a PhD student came and gave a lecture about the
Speaker 1: Etherist Society and the Buddhist and for Danta Society, and
Speaker 1: that's how I found that. And then I spent a
Speaker 1: lot of my time climbing mountains, Holy mountains, particularly kinder
Speaker 1: Scout In Almost every Sunday we would drive over there
Speaker 1: and do that, although I did no mountaineering at all.
Speaker 1: With the mountaineering, so that's maybe an example of how
Speaker 1: you do get help. Yes, yes, because that was the
Speaker 1: only university in the world which had in its union
Speaker 1: the Etherorist Society as an organization at that time, and
Speaker 1: as far as I know, anytime, I don't know another one,
Speaker 1: there maybe another one. And that gave me the actual
Speaker 1: answers I've been looking for for four years ever since
Speaker 1: that experience it Canterbury. I think it's a wonderful way
Speaker 1: to end there, just in terms of an inspiration for
Speaker 1: people who are searching for truth and who really do
Speaker 1: genuinely want the answers, not to give up, to see
Speaker 1: that there is help that will sort of conspire to
Speaker 1: help you on your own path towards this realization, and
Speaker 1: that you know, that was the steppingstone in a long
Speaker 1: journey for you which is eventually taking you to this
Speaker 1: point which you've described with these extremely profound direct realization
Speaker 1: and knowledge of God. Thank you very much for Darren Hey.
Speaker 2: Spiritual Freedom Show family, Thanks for tuning into the show.
Speaker 2: No one can know or really be sure that God
Speaker 2: does not exist, because it does exist, and you can
Speaker 2: prove this to yourself as countless spiritual masters have done
Speaker 2: throughout the ages. Eventually every one of us will realize
Speaker 2: our oneness with the totality of creation and the divine
Speaker 2: source from which it all came in the beginning.
Speaker 1: No one is going to prove God for you.
Speaker 2: You're not gonna be able to sit there in an
Speaker 2: armchair and allow someone to show your presentation or something
Speaker 2: like that that's going to convince you. That is something
Speaker 2: that you're going to have to do for yourself. But
Speaker 2: you can do it following the scientific method that we
Speaker 2: have been given for God realization, which have been passed
Speaker 2: down through the centuries and is available to us now.
Speaker 2: The only person that won't do that is the person
Speaker 2: that doesn't care about truth yet. Now, if you enjoyed
Speaker 2: that episode about the flaws and atheism, then do follow
Speaker 2: subscribe to the channel so they don't miss any future
Speaker 2: episodes that can help you to awaken your chakras, to
Speaker 2: unlock your psychic powers, and to discover true spirituality. Thanks
Speaker 2: for tuning in to the show and see you next time.
Speaker 1: Did that go the way you wanted it to go?
Speaker 1: That show? I mean, I had an idea, but U