WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:02.759 Are bringing into trouble for this. They will criticize the 2 00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:05.759 flat earthers, and you can see why, but in a way, 3 00:00:05.799 --> 00:00:10.080 they're almost spiritual flat earthers the atheists because they aren't 4 00:00:10.119 --> 00:00:13.759 delving into higher consciousness where the answers will lie. They 5 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:17.399 don't know what God is. How can you disbelieve in 6 00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:20.879 something which you don't know what you disbelieve in? If 7 00:00:20.920 --> 00:00:24.640 they mean I don't believe in the God propounded by 8 00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:29.440 the Christian Church, that would be one thing, But that 9 00:00:29.839 --> 00:00:33.600 isn't enough to be an atheist, because even if you 10 00:00:33.640 --> 00:00:37.960 conclude that one religion isn't explaining God properly, you can 11 00:00:38.079 --> 00:00:41.840 know God. You can know not to even have belief, 12 00:00:42.039 --> 00:00:47.039 not even just have faith, but actually know that God exists. 13 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:51.280 And what's happened to me is that I've experienced some 14 00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:52.039 of the truth. 15 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:54.039 Hello and welcome back to the Spiritual Freedom Show with 16 00:00:54.119 --> 00:00:56.439 Richard Lawrence. My name is Darren Ball, and this is 17 00:00:56.479 --> 00:00:59.119 the podcast helping me to awaken your chakras, unlock your 18 00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:03.960 psychic powers, and to discover true spirituality. Now this week's episode, 19 00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:07.439 international best selling author and spiritual teacher Richard Lawrence shares 20 00:01:07.480 --> 00:01:10.599 his own extraordinary journey from his desperate search for truth 21 00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:14.200 at the age of fourteen to his own profound experience 22 00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:18.680 of a degree of cosmic consciousness the reality of God. 23 00:01:19.239 --> 00:01:21.920 Richard Darren, Well, this is certainly one that resonates a 24 00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:24.319 lot with me, just you know, based one experience growing 25 00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:26.920 up and searching for truth. Yes, as you know, I'm 26 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:29.359 sure many people share this experience. But basically it seems 27 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:32.159 to me that this mainstream conversation about God that's out 28 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:34.560 there seems we're kind of stuck in this binary between 29 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:37.519 what orthodox religions will tell you on one side and 30 00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:41.400 sort of how atheists will critique it on the other side, 31 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:43.879 and both of them seem to be arguing to me, 32 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:48.439 at least abo's the same misconception of God. And then meanwhile, 33 00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:50.840 you've got the you know, this mystical tradition, the yogas, 34 00:01:50.920 --> 00:01:53.920 the New Age movement paths, which are pointing at something 35 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:57.519 which both of these two camps completely miss, and you 36 00:01:57.560 --> 00:02:00.439 know that God as the allness of creation, which is 37 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:04.879 noble by direct experience and not just belief. And so 38 00:02:05.079 --> 00:02:06.879 that's that's kind of what I wanted to explore today, 39 00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:09.000 which is, you know, how do we how do we 40 00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:11.319 move beyond this, this binary in this argument that most 41 00:02:11.319 --> 00:02:13.639 people seem to be stuck with in to explore something 42 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:17.639 much more or inspiring and real, which we test for 43 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:21.719 ourselves confess. So in the West, you know, this kind 44 00:02:21.719 --> 00:02:23.240 of speaks to my experience as well. You know, you've 45 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:25.360 got these two camps. Have we talked about the believer 46 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:27.240 who sort of never questions the God that they grew 47 00:02:27.319 --> 00:02:30.039 up with, and then some that do and they're sort 48 00:02:30.039 --> 00:02:31.560 of searching for the truth. And then you've got the 49 00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:34.039 atheist who sort of confidently rejects this which at one 50 00:02:34.039 --> 00:02:37.240 point I would have described myself as until I discovered 51 00:02:37.319 --> 00:02:40.360 discover something greater. And I think, you know, they reject 52 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:43.439 what they perceive is to be this nonsensical idea of God. 53 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:45.439 And there are a lot of very prominent and outspoken 54 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:48.240 voices in that camp who I think in a lot 55 00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:51.719 of sympathy from intellectual audiences in people like the late 56 00:02:51.800 --> 00:02:56.400 Christopher Hitchens or Richard Alpians or Stephen Frye, etc. Roy 57 00:02:56.439 --> 00:02:59.759 Gervese even you know, he's a he talks a lot 58 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:03.919 of it. So I suppose the first question is what's 59 00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:07.000 wrong with this? First with this kind of version of 60 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:10.240 God that people are describing and criticizing here and do 61 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:14.879 the atheists sort of have a case? Well, gosh, where 62 00:03:14.919 --> 00:03:17.840 to begin, you know, I'll begin with this. I was 63 00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:21.039 once invited to give a talk by this there used 64 00:03:21.039 --> 00:03:23.159 to be, I don't know, there still is a skeptical 65 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:26.879 society in the UK. And they invited me to give 66 00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:29.120 a talk. And I knew something. You know, one of 67 00:03:29.159 --> 00:03:31.000 the people out because I bumped into him in TV 68 00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:36.080 studios and he said, They said, fine, but I'd like 69 00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:38.719 to pick the topic. They said, all right, well you 70 00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:40.240 can pick the topic. I think they wanted me to 71 00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:41.960 talk about the theorist, and I think they didn't want 72 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:44.360 to try and rip it apart. I assuw you not 73 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:48.599 born yesterday. So I picked the topic, which my title 74 00:03:48.759 --> 00:03:53.319 was the flaws in Skepticism, and they didn't book me. 75 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:57.520 Who are cowards? You know? I don't know. It's a 76 00:03:57.560 --> 00:04:01.919 strange one. But and there is a flaw in skepticism 77 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:08.000 because skepticism comes from lower mind. It comes from what 78 00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:12.360 we might call a type of critical thinking. This is 79 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:14.840 only one of the problems with atheism, by the way. 80 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:20.319 It's but I put in simply, it's a conclusion reached 81 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:24.079 by someone who doesn't know. They don't know because they 82 00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:28.839 aren't in contact with their own higher mind. And I'm 83 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:31.959 sorry if that sounds pretty dogmatic. Now when you and 84 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:34.000 this is interesting. We come back to z every now 85 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:37.399 and this very mysterious statement that the Mastery theory has made, 86 00:04:37.759 --> 00:04:40.800 and it's publishing a book called you Are Responsible. And 87 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:43.439 it's a very early statement, I think. And he referred 88 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:50.480 to three dimensional mathematics, six dimensional belief, nine dimensional faith, 89 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:55.120 and the twenty five dimensional power in this message. And 90 00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:58.480 these are dimensions. This is not like the seven dimensions 91 00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:00.680 of creation. I take this to be the tappers, the 92 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:03.480 twenty five tappers, or there are various other words for it, 93 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:08.120 the various frequencies and delineations. They don't use the word frequency, 94 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:10.759 but of energy all the way up and back to 95 00:05:10.839 --> 00:05:14.000 the source. And if you've got six of them, you've 96 00:05:14.040 --> 00:05:16.959 got a fuller grasp, nine a full of one, and 97 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:22.000 so on. That's as I would take it. If you're 98 00:05:22.079 --> 00:05:28.120 limited to a type of thinking, you know, which precludes 99 00:05:28.439 --> 00:05:34.560 inner knowledge for a start, you don't even know what, 100 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:37.600 you don't believe it. It's flawed in many many ways. Actually, Athism, 101 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:40.560 I think, actually in some ways and I'm probably go 102 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:43.480 into trouble for this. But then the atheists have thrown 103 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:46.480 this at religious believers. It's a kind of a mental 104 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:49.079 health condition. And I say that, and I'm not talking 105 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:51.680 about agnosticism, by the way, I'm not talking about people 106 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:54.079 just don't know. And they say they don't know. You 107 00:05:54.120 --> 00:05:57.800 can't ask for more than that. So that fits in 108 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:01.800 with Socrates very well, indeed, but who's often taken as 109 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:05.199 the father of critical thinking by son. So he said 110 00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:06.879 that you've got to know what you don't know. And 111 00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:09.519 an atheist doesn't know what they don't know. They don't 112 00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:14.319 know what God is. How can you disbelieve in something 113 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:18.600 which you don't know what you disbelieve in? Hmm. So 114 00:06:18.759 --> 00:06:22.560 if they mean I don't believe in the God propounded 115 00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:27.879 by the Christian Church, that would be one thing, right, 116 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:31.639 or the God propounded by another religion, that would be 117 00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:34.560 one thing. And incidentally, I'm going to throw this in 118 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:39.600 the Lord Buddha, who is now on Shambala, does believe 119 00:06:39.639 --> 00:06:43.120 in a divine creator. I think as a divine architect 120 00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:48.079 of all creations. Yeah, I only know that because I 121 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:52.360 was giving a talk at a Buddhist temple in London, 122 00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:55.439 it's invited to give a talk on the Nine Freedoms. Actually, 123 00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:58.519 and the person invited me told me, and it was 124 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:03.120 run by some monks, this temple. This temple. He told 125 00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:05.720 me that. Course, you know, Buddha didn't believe in God. 126 00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:09.399 A lot of Buddhists will say that. And it just 127 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:14.240 so happened I was giving this talk and this had 128 00:07:14.279 --> 00:07:16.360 been said to me, that Buddha didn't believe in God. 129 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:22.439 And the next day Doctor King from an entirely different reason. 130 00:07:22.519 --> 00:07:24.879 And he wasn't involved in this. He was in America, 131 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:27.160 I was in the UK. I'm not sure whether he 132 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:29.720 even knew it. Probably did know, but it wasn't about that. 133 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:34.480 He got a series of communications about something entirely different 134 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:39.160 from cosmic sources, and he told me about it on 135 00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:42.399 the phone, and one of them was the Lord Buddha 136 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:46.920 now Kumara of Shambala. And in the communication from the 137 00:07:46.920 --> 00:07:50.800 Lord Buddha, he referred to the divine architect of all creation. 138 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:53.480 I think I've got that right. Something like that could 139 00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:56.680 take it to mean God. So it just so happened 140 00:07:56.720 --> 00:07:59.639 that the person who'd arranged this meeting for me at 141 00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:02.800 the temple phone me up the day after this call 142 00:08:02.839 --> 00:08:05.519 with Otter King, and I was able to say and say, oh, 143 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:08.199 by the way, I said to him, Lord, but does 144 00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:11.680 believe in God? And he said, how do you know that? 145 00:08:12.360 --> 00:08:15.839 So he said so yesterday. So I don't know how. 146 00:08:17.399 --> 00:08:19.800 And now that went down. I just throwing that in. 147 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:22.519 But coming back to your atheist if they're saying I don't, 148 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:27.240 there's lots of things. I mean. I was very very sad. Indeed, 149 00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:31.759 I say this was respect by the way to devout Christians, 150 00:08:32.279 --> 00:08:34.559 but I was very very sad not to be able 151 00:08:34.600 --> 00:08:38.440 to take up that religion myself because I was at 152 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:41.679 a school which was King School, Canterbury, which was tied in. 153 00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:45.840 I was a king scholar, tied into the cathedral, and 154 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:49.120 you know, it was a perfect place really to pursue, 155 00:08:49.879 --> 00:08:52.080 you know, a career in the priesthood and wherever it 156 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:56.159 might lead in that religion. It was very comfortable in 157 00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:59.039 the sense of my family were in that religion. It 158 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:02.559 would have fitted very well. And it's a very tolerant religion. 159 00:09:02.679 --> 00:09:05.919 You know, you can have a family, you can do whatever, 160 00:09:06.360 --> 00:09:09.159 and especially in those days and possibly now, but then 161 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:13.679 certainly very socially acceptable in every way. And he would 162 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:16.600 have been very convenient, and so I had to face 163 00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:18.840 that I had to look at the tenets of that 164 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:22.519 religion at the age of fourteen, discuss it with the 165 00:09:22.519 --> 00:09:26.200 dean of the cathedral actually, and regrettably have to come 166 00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:29.759 to conclusion, this doesn't make sense. There's things in here 167 00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:35.240 that aren't right, that don't figure, that don't compute. The 168 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:38.799 dean advised me not to think about them. He advised 169 00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:40.639 me just he said, if you know, we all get this, 170 00:09:40.759 --> 00:09:42.679 but it'll go away. You'll learn to live with it, 171 00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:46.480 he hakes, And that to a fourteen year old is wool. 172 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:50.440 So you know, I can sympathize with people saying, well, 173 00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:53.320 there's things in this religion that for example, let's take 174 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:56.720 the Trinity and this idea that Jesus and I know 175 00:09:56.759 --> 00:10:00.679 there's a difference between Catholics and Orthodox. And I know 176 00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:04.639 from my minimal understanding, the Catholics equate or put on 177 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:09.200 the same level Jesus and God, and sometimes call Jesus God, 178 00:10:10.360 --> 00:10:14.320 and whereas the Orthodox see God. I think I'm right 179 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:17.879 in saying as being above in the same trinity, but 180 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:20.799 maybe a step above, if I've got that right. So 181 00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:25.360 there are differences, but there's things about the trinity that 182 00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:28.240 are very questionable. It's interesting they came up with a 183 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:30.240 trinity at all, by the way, because there is a 184 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:37.120 trinity in the universe, creation, preservation, transmutation. That's the real trinity. 185 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:40.480 But you know, you can question these things, of course, 186 00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:44.000 the dogmas, the tenets that a man made that came 187 00:10:44.039 --> 00:10:47.919 about through the ages. You could disagree, you could disbelieve, 188 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:55.279 But that isn't enough to be an atheist, because even 189 00:10:55.320 --> 00:10:58.720 if you conclude that one religion isn't explaining God properly, 190 00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:03.639 you don't know that there is. There's a wonderful statement here, actually, 191 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:07.720 you know, in the Twelve Blessings. Actually, let me just 192 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:14.240 get it absolutely right, that we can't limit because it's 193 00:11:14.279 --> 00:11:17.639 about not limiting our concept of God. Here it is 194 00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:21.679 talking about the absolute, said the Master Jesus says, this 195 00:11:21.799 --> 00:11:25.519 is the God which cannot ever be limited by man 196 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:29.279 or God man. And so if a religion is limiting 197 00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:32.120 or trying to limit our concept of God, and I 198 00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:34.799 believe some do, and some of them I believe get 199 00:11:34.840 --> 00:11:39.240 it wrong and have got it wrong, that doesn't mean 200 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:42.320 God doesn't exist. And so the atheists at the very 201 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:44.799 least should be saying, I don't believe in the Christian 202 00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:49.080 view of God. The atheist doesn't know probably all the 203 00:11:49.240 --> 00:11:52.600 concepts of God that have ever been taught. So it's 204 00:11:52.600 --> 00:11:56.720 a fool who would say I don't believe in God completely, 205 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:01.519 just based on also their own idea that God wouldn't 206 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:03.720 do this, and if God existed, he would do that, 207 00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:06.440 then he would stop suffering, or he would this, or 208 00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:09.559 he would that. They do the same with extraterrestrials. Actually, 209 00:12:09.879 --> 00:12:12.679 they say if extraterrestrials exist, as some people say, they 210 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:15.919 would come down, they would prove themselves, they would do 211 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:20.600 X Y and said, you don't know that you're talking 212 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:24.960 as a terrestrial about aliens point and you don't know 213 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:27.960 what or why God does it. And I'll just finish this. 214 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.000 One absolute thing is which is good news, which is 215 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:34.960 positive news, which I have discovered in the last few years, 216 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:37.320 and we talked about it before on the show. You 217 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:41.039 can know God. And the key to that again is 218 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:43.960 in the Twelve Blessings where the Master Jesus says, it 219 00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:48.320 is the I am within man. And that is how 220 00:12:49.240 --> 00:12:52.360 at the right time in your evolution, when you're ready, 221 00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:55.639 you can know not to even have belief, not even 222 00:12:55.759 --> 00:13:00.960 just have faith, but actually know that God exists. Yes, Yeah, 223 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:02.960 there's some great points that I just want to highlight. 224 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:05.080 And then I think there's a great segue as well 225 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:08.440 versus that you know, if I'm understanding correctly, it's sort 226 00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:10.559 of like the atheists who have sort of stopped at 227 00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:13.840 the point of rejecting one religion's conception of God, has 228 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:16.240 there only done half a job? Really really? Yeah. And 229 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:19.919 also for us to sort of project onto God how 230 00:13:19.960 --> 00:13:21.720 we think God would do or this or that is 231 00:13:21.759 --> 00:13:24.480 the same thing that Orthodox religions have done for centuries 232 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:26.720 in trying to portray God and certain away through their 233 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:29.600 limited understanding. Yeah, and a sort of level of ignorance. 234 00:13:30.039 --> 00:13:33.080 So there's there's sort of there's a whole next step, 235 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:36.840 a whole vista of possibility after you move beyond the 236 00:13:36.919 --> 00:13:39.480 God of a particular religion. And that's I think what 237 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:41.639 I want to come back to your story. So, as 238 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:44.159 you've described, you know, fourteen hearing, you know, the dean 239 00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:49.039 of the cathedral sort of brush aside these questions that 240 00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:52.600 you had about the God of this particular religion, Where 241 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:55.159 did it take you after that? That's actually literally what 242 00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:58.720 I did was weep. It meant so much to me. 243 00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:01.200 And this is another thing I think. Think about people 244 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:05.240 who come to religious meetings or spiritual meetings or gatherings 245 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:08.919 of any kind. Are they coming or are they you know? 246 00:14:10.039 --> 00:14:15.519 They we coming for a good experience, for an enjoyable 247 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:20.600 day out, to learn something about a particular topic. You know, 248 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:24.440 mix with nice people, add a dimension to their life, 249 00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:27.559 bring some comfort to their life, bring us sort of 250 00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:31.840 family connection for their children, et cetera, et cetera. There's 251 00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:36.480 many reasons people can go to religion. But in my case, 252 00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:39.759 at the age of fourteen, I was searching for truth. 253 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:44.159 That was the uppermost thing in my life in my mind. 254 00:14:44.600 --> 00:14:47.360 It kind of irritated my parents about it, concerned them 255 00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:50.600 a bit. This was the most important thing to me. 256 00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:53.440 And this was the religion I was brought up in. 257 00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:56.039 And as I mentioned earlier, it would have been very 258 00:14:56.080 --> 00:14:59.639 convenient for me to go into it. And I think 259 00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:03.360 a lot of people go to religion for convenience. I mean, 260 00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:07.120 why is it that most people choose the religion of 261 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:11.799 their birth. Why should that be true just because you're 262 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:17.919 born into it? Have you looked to see and most 263 00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:22.399 of them haven't. They've accepted it. It's convenient it fits, 264 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:26.759 it fits in with their community, it works for them, 265 00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:30.039 and so that's what they do. So such people I 266 00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:33.559 don't regard or sorry if I'm offending anyone, as real 267 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:38.799 seekers for truth. They are a seekers for something, and 268 00:15:40.039 --> 00:15:42.200 maybe it's better that they have that religion than that 269 00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:46.519 they don't. But they're not seek us for truth really 270 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:49.840 in the sense that regardless of what it means, regardless 271 00:15:49.879 --> 00:15:52.879 of how convenient it is is or uncomfortable it is, 272 00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:55.679 or what it does to my life, I want to 273 00:15:55.720 --> 00:15:58.200 find out the truth. This is what you get, actually, 274 00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:01.360 I will say in the theory of society, because if 275 00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:05.159 there aciety is an unconventional organization, it's not always the 276 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:09.720 easiest thing to join at all. It may not fit 277 00:16:09.799 --> 00:16:12.639 in with some of your family and friends particularly, or 278 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:17.000 it might and sometimes it really does. In many cases 279 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:19.240 it does, I don't want to put that wrong. And 280 00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:22.200 we're certainly not an organization that's against family and friends 281 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:24.879 or anything of that nature at all, but it's a 282 00:16:24.919 --> 00:16:29.600 departure from the traditional upbringings of most people. So the 283 00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:33.919 people who come to us are real searchers. They're looking 284 00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:39.200 for truth, and that's quite rare. Answering your question, I 285 00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:42.080 actually walk around the cathedral straight after that conversation with 286 00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:46.120 the Dean in tears. But I knew enough then at 287 00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:49.679 the age of fourteen, that I couldn't take to that path, 288 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:53.440 and then I started on my search, which led me 289 00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:59.399 to Eastern religion, particularly when I was eighteen for the Canander, 290 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:02.639 and then pretty quickly found the Ethericide. He actually became 291 00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:06.599 a member when I was eighteen. So it's basically these 292 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:09.799 mystical traditions, the Yoga tradition that for you, helped to 293 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:13.400 reveal this greater concept of what God. Actually it was 294 00:17:13.519 --> 00:17:18.519 much greater, and there's a lot in common between the 295 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:22.359 concept of God as given in the Etherist society and 296 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:27.400 some of the old traditional beliefs in the Eastern religion 297 00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:30.599 or in the Hindu. Let's face it, it is true 298 00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:33.079 to say, Lord Buddha, from what records we have, didn't 299 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:36.680 mention God much, if at all. I would think he did, 300 00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:41.279 but we don't know that. That certainly the Hindu idea 301 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:44.519 or the Yoga idea. But it goes way beyond that, 302 00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:49.920 though much takes it much further even than the great 303 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:53.960 Yoga Hindu traditions. And I do think that the twelfth 304 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:58.960 Blessing delivered by the Master Jesus is the greatest, by far, 305 00:17:59.079 --> 00:18:03.759 the greatest that I encountered exposition of what God really is. 306 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:07.200 And what's happened to me, particularly in the last two 307 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:13.039 or three years, is that I've experienced now some of 308 00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:17.519 the truth, tiny little droplet, that's all, but of the 309 00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:22.839 truth of what is there in the Twelve Blessings, specifically this, 310 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:26.319 although it isn't stated in the Twelve Blessing, this point 311 00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:31.480 that God did make man in his own emitiatives. To 312 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:34.440 use a biblical praise or to put it better, the 313 00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:38.039 human being, the microcosm of the human being is a 314 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:42.799 miniature reflection of the macrocosm of God and that God 315 00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:49.000 in its glory, and really you have to sort of 316 00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:53.640 enter into the arena of cosmic consciousness. That's all I'm 317 00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:56.359 going to say about it, and wouldn't go further than that, 318 00:18:56.920 --> 00:19:00.000 which I did last year actually in August of life 319 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:05.519 next year to really see it was the second time 320 00:19:05.559 --> 00:19:07.599 i'd done it, but it was much fuller than the 321 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:12.200 time before I became aware, and in a very abstract way, 322 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:15.319 because you're in when you're in that state, it's very abstract. 323 00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:20.799 You're not thinking, sort of your your your conscious mind 324 00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:25.920 and your subconscious mind have been subsumed, if that's the 325 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:29.359 right word, and so you're in a super conscious state. 326 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:36.319 And then that state you can see God manifesting, and 327 00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:39.000 the elements that we have in the little human being 328 00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:43.000 that we are are manifested in the macrocosm of the Absolute. 329 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:48.200 And over the months that came after that experience, where 330 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:53.799 when I did apply logic and thinking to what I'd experienced, 331 00:19:53.880 --> 00:19:59.039 so that the experience comes first, the logical application comes second, 332 00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:03.880 I could see all the chakras, the major chakras that 333 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:09.200 we have are reflected in one way or another in 334 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:13.880 the Absolute, and it tellies with the twelve Blessings, which 335 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:18.880 is the greatest description of divinity that we have ever 336 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:22.200 been given, I think on earth. I think you know 337 00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:24.720 what's very interesting here is that, you know, atheism sort 338 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:27.119 of has a position, sort of endures an intellectual debate, 339 00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:31.279 but it doesn't survive direct experience, as you've just described, 340 00:20:32.359 --> 00:20:34.440 and just before I ask you a little bit more 341 00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:37.759 about that, you know, it's this mystical God that can 342 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:41.640 be realized through direct experience, which is which is really 343 00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:44.119 the key, I think, and the yoga traditions of others. 344 00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:48.279 They all propose these methods by which you can realize 345 00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:52.119 and experience God for yourselves, almost as you know, a 346 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:54.839 scientific method that we can follow, and anyone sort of 347 00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:57.720 choosing to reject that approach is almost choosing to reject 348 00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:01.440 the science, science in principle, and even the science of 349 00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:05.119 God realization. Yeah, well, an atheist is really and they 350 00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:07.640 won't like this, but they're a person who's saying I 351 00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:10.680 don't believe in God, and they're not willing to explore it. 352 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:14.640 You're using the mechanisms, the methodology which is available to them. 353 00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:17.400 Be like a person saying I have been proved yeah 354 00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:20.599 I don't believe in the combustion engine. You could say 355 00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:24.880 that and you never bother to look into engineering mechanics 356 00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:28.400 or anything else or test it in any way, but 357 00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:31.519 you just reject it. That's why I say, In some ways, 358 00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:35.400 it's a you know, they will criticize the flat earthers, 359 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:38.279 and you can see why, but in a way, they're 360 00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:43.680 almost spiritual flat earthers, the atheists, because they aren't delving 361 00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:47.359 into higher consciousness where the answers will lie. They want 362 00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:50.920 to really know and they want to have some grounding 363 00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:55.720 for their faith. And their belief. And although I have 364 00:21:56.039 --> 00:21:59.559 myself just now said that the church a Christian Church, 365 00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:05.599 not Christianity, but the Christian Church dogmas and teachings didn't 366 00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:07.880 stack up for me, and therefore I couldn't take to 367 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:11.000 the path. You know, I wouldn't do what some bishops did. 368 00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:13.079 And actually I think there was an archbishop of York. 369 00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:16.119 I think I'm run saying who didn't believe in God, 370 00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:18.440 or I might be wrong there, but there was certainly 371 00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:20.720 a priest who didn't believe in God, and he's I 372 00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:24.960 think he didn't believe in the crucifixion, the resurrection. So 373 00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:27.599 that would be dishonorable to take up that path and 374 00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:30.920 then not you know that. Yeah, so that's why I 375 00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:33.880 knew I couldn't. But on the other hand, I do 376 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:38.000 respect people who have faith. I mean, there's some tremendous 377 00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:43.400 people in history who advand quite a long way. Theresa 378 00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:46.799 of a Villa would be one hus and Catherine of Siena. 379 00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:49.839 I think it would be another, you know, through that 380 00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:53.039 traditional path, and it probably was all that was available 381 00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:57.160 to them then, the only path they could take. Now 382 00:22:57.240 --> 00:23:00.480 that isn't true. Now you have the opportunity to search 383 00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:05.559 to investigate whether something is unpalatable. Whether you like something 384 00:23:05.720 --> 00:23:10.160 or not, whether it's convenient or not, has nothing to 385 00:23:10.279 --> 00:23:14.440 do with whether it's truth true. It might be an 386 00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:18.680 inconvenient truth, yes, I think what's interesting is that, you know, 387 00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:23.640 you're an example of many others who have who have 388 00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:25.759 come before, great saints and sages who have sort of 389 00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:28.519 converged on the same truth to experience by applying the 390 00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:32.039 sort of scientific method of God realization, which has been 391 00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:35.720 proved as the way that you can experience God. And 392 00:23:35.799 --> 00:23:38.759 I guess my question as follow up to that would be, 393 00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:41.640 you know, what is it that you sort of knew 394 00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:47.440 differently after the experienced versus before. After the experience, I 395 00:23:47.480 --> 00:23:51.880 started to fill in the details because I knew absolutely 396 00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:55.240 new and I know that God made man in his 397 00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:58.279 own image, which I didn't believe before, because there's a 398 00:23:58.359 --> 00:24:01.279 whole misnomer about it, which is that, you know, HiT's 399 00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:07.559 ridiculous really that when people in the traditional church depict God, 400 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:10.400 they used to depict him as a man with a 401 00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:13.039