Speaker 1: They're both did the same spell effectively in terms of
range and power. But I've played with a lot more
people who've got Fireball, and I have the people who
played in Lightning blah oh yeah, correct, Yeah, achieves roughly
the same thing. Okay, there's a bit more mechanics in it,
but yeah, why not be something slightly different?
Speaker 2: No real segue for me, I guess allowing others to shine,
which is giving people the space, being open and inclusive
to people's space at the table. So for me, it's
like trying to avoid that lead character syndrome where occasion
you get that one player or one character that seems
to do everything. They seem to do all of the
persuasion checks, they seem to take the lead in all
of the battles, they seem to do all of the
interaction with all of the NPCs, or with all of
the exploration of the environment and world. Yeah, I call
that lead character syndrome or hero syndrome where you're not
sharing the light a little bit, right. I know it's
partly the DM's responsibility to try and delineate that and
try and share that out share the love. But I
think awesome players give the space for other people to
express themselves.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one of my favorite, I say episodes.
Speaker 1: Now I'm too much of a critical role to not
call each game I play an episode on my favorite.
We rolled a total of three dice in three hours.
The rest of it was essentially the four players at
the table talking with an occasional input from the DM,
and we all absolutely loved it because it was just
an in character conversation. There's some out of character jokes
to be made within that, but it was the first
understanding that you have the capability and facility to just
be your character, and not to be your character, but
interact with other characters and believe in them fully enough
to just engage and continue a conversation about all kinds
of things.
Speaker 3: I absolutely loved it. It was one of the most
satisfying trying for filling. Yeah. Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 2: I think part of the joy of that is that
that particular situation was player driven, So the players are
all complicit in enjoying that atmosphere that they've created between them,
and they want to continue that conversation. And let me
tell you something, as a DM, I love it when
I've created a framework and my players are just playing
in it. Yep, I barely have to do anything. They're
enjoying themselves. They're interacting with each other, maybe occasionally bouncing
off the NPC, and then before you know it, two
hours passed near EA dice has been rolled. I've got
other opinions about that, which we'll say for another time.
But when it's player driven like that.
Speaker 1: And it won't always be the case in I wouldn't
want the entire period of playing to be that necessarily,
but once in a while. Yeah, I mean it stands out.
It's six months or more ago, and it stands out
as a highlight in my playing so far in the
year and a half of gaming to just go well, actually, yeah,
that one episode that was great where we just chatted
and we still progressed the game as well.
Speaker 3: That was the other thing.
Speaker 1: It wasn't just idle chit chat. It was progression of
the progression of character as much as the story. It was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, character progression is important. I think I was probably
asked that just to link it back to the original
point is I'd like to think that during that particular session,
everyone was giving each other the light a little bit,
sharing the torch absolutely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it wasn't It wasn't statements. It was questions
and responses and further questions. It wasn't here's my twenty minutes.
Listen to me. Do you know what?
Speaker 2: I think that's part that is quite an interesting and
important point. I think awesome players will ask character question
of the other characters at the table because that will,
they said, drive character development. Asking them about their background
in character makes for some great role playing moments.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because again, it keeps it over the table and
not on the sheet. You're not looking at what you
wrote down as your background. You're going, well, I'm just
responding to you. I remembered enough of what I wrote
down to be able to flesh it out. There might
be a name here and there, or a specific thing
that you want to bring up, so you reference it,
much as we're doing now looking down at our laptops
and going oh, yeah, that was the thing. But generally
it's I know what I want to talk about. I'm
interested to know what this person across the table has
got to talk about.
Speaker 2: What character's opinion on this?
Speaker 3: And I try and encourage that, particularly with new players.
Speaker 1: Is that if I noticed that they're being a bit
quieter or a bit more held back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and but do it in characters. Yeah, you know,
Krav Magare, what do you think we should do next?
Speaker 1: It's not Dave Dad, You're right mate, you.
Speaker 2: Want for a coffee.
Speaker 1: It's it's keeping the characters, keeping the players within their character,
and then still allowing them the facility to join the game, yeah,
and continue with their bit of bit of input.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think also part of that is also
respecting your other other players at the table when they
have time with NPCs or time with a DM. Right.
One of my bug bears is if I'm interacting with
an end with a player character, if i'm them and
the NPC, I'm interacting with a player character and I've
got other characters at the table having their own separate conversation,
it drives me crazy. First and foremost is rude, and secondly,
they're not engaging in the scene that's being created.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, So the this character is having an engagement and
interaction with an NPC, which is should be part of
the wider story. Which if you're having a side conversation
regardless of it, if it's in character, takes away from
the shared experience.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yeah, I've definitely experienced it. Probably at the same
table as you have it on occasion of you know,
as you say, the DM as a certain character is
having a conversation with one or two specific players around
the table in character and evolving the plot points, or
even if it's something as innocuous as a shopping thing,
it might be important enough that the rest of the
characters need to pay attention to it. At the very least,
it's courtesy to not continue a conversation. Yeah, And also
often you get oh, you don't know, I'll go what's next?
Speaker 3: Then yeah, well it's not.
Speaker 2: It's almost of a well what's in it for me? Actually,
isn't it?
Speaker 1: And it's not a case of what's next, it's I'm
enjoying the other people at the table help tell their
bit of the story.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that of course.
Speaker 1: And then the opposite being players jumping in when they're
not in the scene is a.
Speaker 3: Little bit of a bug bit.
Speaker 1: I feel that's more of a what makes it To
get it back on topic of what makes a good
role player is respond when it's a valid and not Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think that's I think that is related is
if you are constantly diving in on other people's interactions
for no other reason other than to make sure that
your character is your character is involved. As opposed to
sitting and enjoying the interaction. It feels a little selfish
and it takes the shine away or the light away
from those characters that are having it show on them
for a little bit. So I think, yeah, a good
a good role player would allow that that tughts to
be passed around a little bit and encourage that I've
got one more on my list, which would give me
my fly. Just respecting the DM's rulings.
Speaker 3: Well, is that a controversial thing?
Speaker 2: Respect the DM? Well, if it's things like on rules,
if they're playing an NPC, if the DM is talking,
I mean, I don't want to come across like an
old school teacher. But if the DM is talking, it
would it, you know, be much of a trouble to
just be quiet for a little bit and try and
listen to what's being Yeah, the plot that's being Yeah.
Speaker 1: It tur into all of the other points we've had.
You're not playing a video game. You're not skipping the
cut scene.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't get to skip the cut scene.
Speaker 1: It's happening in front of you, So you listen to it.
It might not be again, it might not be your scene,
it might.
Speaker 2: Not be the thing that your character wants, it might
be someone else's.
Speaker 3: But it's all valid. It all builds the world that
you're playing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it doesn't mean you can't give critique
or feedback on a particular rule. So take going back
to the rules as an example. If I'm not entirely
sure about how something works, and you're not entirely sure
about some how something works, I'll generally just make a
ruling and let's run with this, and then the next
game I'll correct it if it needs to be corrected.
What I don't want is a ten minute long argument
at the table while you tell me your opinion and
I tell you my opinion, and we're no further from
the truth to the truth. I would rather Well, unless
you let me, I'm going to make a ruling. We're
gonna run with it, unless unless it's game breaking. If
it's going to player death, you know, you fall off
a building, you die. Well, No, that's again in D
and D that's not necessarily correct unless you le have
one player and you're unlucky. So I'm not going to
outright wizard constitution though, well, yeah, I mean I played
with players that would absolutely be the case for the character.
But yeah, I know what you're saying for the most part.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so you know, if if it's going to
be your characterized, if I get the wrong ruling wrong,
sure I would pause and consider it. If it's just
you take some damage or you don't, then you take
the damage unless I say otherwise, and then I'll check.
If it becomes the point of death, then may work
out a way of balancing it on the next round.
Speaker 2: It's true for for for knowledge, your character wouldn't know, right,
So if a beastie does a certain you're fighting an
enemy and it acts a certain way, it has more
actions than you might expect, it does different things that
you might expect. Well, if you're suddenly stopping every five
minutes to argue the fact, well can that monster do that? Well, yeah,
DM said it can, so yeah it can, unless it's
going to completely kill the game. And assuming you've got
a fairly competent and fair DM that is trying to
challenge but yet make an interesting and flavorsome campaign for
you to play in. Let them do their job, respect
what they're doing, and just do your character. Your involvement
is on your sheet and being that person in the
world that you are creating together the numbers, stats and
everything else, the NPC's monsters, all of that damage what
you're rolling. Leave that to the DM and respect. They say,
I guess respect what their their decision and judgment.
Speaker 1: Again, coming back similar to the not asking for a role,
but asking, you know, describing what your character's doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you've got half a d M worth of sort,
recognize what you're doing and it will throw out, Oh
well I can. I can understand you're you're looking around
the room for a specific thing role a perception check
or oh you want to you want to dig through
this this guy's belongings for a specific clue, role in
investigation check, I see what your character was doing.
Speaker 1: If you, as a player are making an assumption, the
assumption should be the least not the best. You shouldn't
assume you're going to find a thing. You shouldn't assume
that you saw or heard something occurring. I was playing
at the weekend. My ranger was down the corridor from
where the jelly arrived. I didn't assume I saw it.
I asked the question, did my range to see this happening.
I'd rather ask a question and get told no than
assume I had kiss off the DM and then have
him resent me or the rest of the players resent me,
Because again, I've had that where I've had a conversation
as a character with the d MS NPC, you know,
one hundred yards away from the rest of the characters,
and then they've been suddenly teleported next to me as
though they've been in the conversation.
Speaker 2: Oh I heard all this, Maiden, You are one hundred
yards away. You didn't hear anything.
Speaker 3: And I would much rather that.
Speaker 1: I much rather be oblivious to everything other than what's
directly in front of my eyes as a player and
as a character, and then go, well.
Speaker 3: I know that's happening.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can react to what you know.
Speaker 3: I know what that monster does. I'd rather see what
that monster does as this character.
Speaker 2: Yeah, reacting to what your character knows as to what
your players that's a whole separate point, I think, but
it's somewhat related. But yeah, just for me, respecting the
DM's rulings, respecting the environment that he's created is a
great hallmark of an awesome role player for me. Yeah,
So that's absolutely agree. I should pull for your for
your last point, I guess my last it will sound
as simple as he is.
Speaker 3: Really enjoyed the bad dice rolls. Oh, I like it.
Seventy people and I like it.
Speaker 2: That does make an excellent role player if you can
get fun out of that.
Speaker 1: I'd never accuse anyone of fudging dice rolls. Okay, maybe
I would.
Speaker 2: I have seen people fudge dive rolls.
Speaker 1: But again, I can understand if it's life or death
for your character, whether they roll a one or a twenty,
then you're gonna want to win that particular role. But certainly,
in a number of games I play, it's never going
to be permanent life or death. There's always going to
be an option. I've as a DM, I've killed the
player and then five minutes later given them an out.
There's always an option. Even if you think all is lost, well,
it turns out there's a cleric half an hour up
the road that if you ask him the right way,
and you continue to role play, and your character follows
up in the aftermath and says.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well maybe maybe we can fix this. This is right.
Speaker 3: I don't want to go oh can I can I reroll.
Now that one doesn't count. Oh can I can you?
What's your characters? She got that? Mighty Well, the role
was a three.
Speaker 2: It happened.
Speaker 3: You're a level three player. You've got a total of nine.
Speaker 1: Sorry, you're messed up, But it gives you opportunity to
learn as a player that stuff goes wrong, and see
what fun can be had in that. See where you
then engage with the rest of your group, even if
you're a ghost temporarily, and go, well, yeah, I wonder
now how invested the rest of the group are in
my character.
Speaker 2: I think we mentioned it back in the commitment to
character point where it's half of the fun I think
in the in role playing games at least comes from
the failed vice rolls. Right, like you said, if you can,
if you can learn to find the join in that
and accept that, I think it opens up way more
avenues than it closes. Just because you foiled a particular
skill check. Oh guess what you've got an encounter? Now, well,
that's an exciting way that you might get loot or
XP or whatever.
Speaker 1: Arguably, if you win every distroll, as it were to
use that terminology, you go on a very linear path
you've gone from A to B to C to D,
because yeah, that's the route, the most obvious route.
Speaker 2: You've you persuaded the innkeeper to tell you where to go.
You pass your survival check to work your way through
the forest. You did your investigation to find the secret
cave mouth entrance, you did your perception check to spot
the guards in the distance, you did your stealth check
to sneak past them. You've gone the direct route, which, yeah,
that's fun, But isn't it also fun for the chain
mail to be a little bit too loud and attract
the attention. So then you dispatch one of those guards,
or maybe the innkeeper that you tried to persuade was
being particularly curmudgeonally that day and he doesn't give you anything.
So you're left trying to find your your own way there,
maybe getting lost in.
Speaker 3: The forest, or you interact with three other characters because.
Speaker 2: Yeah, three other NPCs that you might never have met.
Speaker 1: Because it's not players versus DM means it's a group storytelling, correct,
So if that particular avenue closes, one or more opens,
one of those fails, two more open, you fall down
a pit. Well, that's not the end of your character.
It turns out that at the bottom of this pit
there's a weird little hole that you hadn't seen from
the top layer. Whereas if you'd survived and made the jump, well, fine,
you'd made the jump, but now you've fallen down the hole.
Speaker 3: Oh you found a secret trap.
Speaker 1: Door that actually leads to whatever else, and the story
continues and is better for the failure.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's a really great point. I think
the failed skill check is never the end of anything.
It's just another branch of possibility.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that's important to note, and I think, yeah,
I think it's probably fair to say that awesome tabletop
role players get joy out of the bad dice rolls.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it leads to the gnome falling off the log,
smashing his nuts and falling in the river. As an example,
it was superb. It was great, superb, and that leading
to a rescue attempt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was. It was a player driven.
Speaker 1: The role was at disadvantage because he was getting pelted
with rocks by one of the other players because of
that player's character was an ass hat quite frankly, so
it's a full on ass hat.
Speaker 3: He made it harder.
Speaker 1: Everyone was having fun, including the person who was called
Nutsmasher who ended up getting his nuts mashed.
Speaker 2: It's solid name, and everyone enjoyed the failure.
Speaker 3: It was better than you made it across the log.
Well done.
Speaker 2: Awesome. Let's do a little recap of your list. I'll
do a recap of mine, and then we'll go from there.
Yeah yeah, so let's give you all this one from
top to box.
Speaker 1: So mine, Yeah, as I thought of them earlier. Play
your character and not your sheets. So do whatever you
want to try, regardless of the numbers that might lead
to successful failure, engaging with the story and the other players.
It's not a computer game to win, It's a story
to be told between the group, being original even within
the obvious. So pick your favorite combination of class in
character race, but then see where you can go with
it outside of the obvious. Know how your stuff works,
and then, as we've just covered, enjoy the bad dice rolls.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of fun to be had there.
Speaker 2: So with me. Like we talked about, knowing your stuff,
an important one hat to know everything, just at least
what's on your sheet. Commitment to your character, being your
character within the world, and enjoying the environment that you're
all creating together. Being an adventurer, so following those plot hooks,
saving the prince or princess, searching out that treasure. That's
all part of the fun. Part and parcel of the
stuff that I create. Might be different for you, but
that's what I love. Respecting the DM, the rulings the world,
and openness and inclusiveness, allowing others to share the light.
So let people shine, ask questions with the other characters,
dig a little bit into their backgrounds, develop those bonds,
and respect the time that they have with NPCs, and
respect the time that they have in having conversation with
each other. Don't have lead player syndrome or lead character syndrome.
You're not the hero, You're all heroes. I think that's
pretty much it. Have you got anything else to add
on that?
Speaker 1: No, I think that would be far and away all
of the things and more that I've been looking for
in excellent type role players.
Speaker 2: There may well be more. I mean, I originally wrote
out seven eight, had to narrow it down to five.
We could do another one potentially, but we think we
colored pretty much everything there.
Speaker 1: Maybe the key things for in anyone I want to
share a table, Yeah.
Speaker 2: One, And we're lucky enough to have great players at
our tables that share many of these, if not older,
these policies regularly m hmm