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Speaker 1: They're both did the same spell effectively in terms of

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range and power. But I've played with a lot more

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people who've got Fireball, and I have the people who

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played in Lightning blah oh yeah, correct, Yeah, achieves roughly

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the same thing. Okay, there's a bit more mechanics in it,

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but yeah, why not be something slightly different?

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Speaker 2: No real segue for me, I guess allowing others to shine,

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which is giving people the space, being open and inclusive

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to people's space at the table. So for me, it's

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like trying to avoid that lead character syndrome where occasion

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you get that one player or one character that seems

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to do everything. They seem to do all of the

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persuasion checks, they seem to take the lead in all

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of the battles, they seem to do all of the

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interaction with all of the NPCs, or with all of

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the exploration of the environment and world. Yeah, I call

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that lead character syndrome or hero syndrome where you're not

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sharing the light a little bit, right. I know it's

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partly the DM's responsibility to try and delineate that and

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try and share that out share the love. But I

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think awesome players give the space for other people to

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express themselves.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, one of my favorite, I say episodes.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm too much of a critical role to not

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call each game I play an episode on my favorite.

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We rolled a total of three dice in three hours.

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The rest of it was essentially the four players at

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the table talking with an occasional input from the DM,

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and we all absolutely loved it because it was just

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an in character conversation. There's some out of character jokes

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to be made within that, but it was the first

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understanding that you have the capability and facility to just

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be your character, and not to be your character, but

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interact with other characters and believe in them fully enough

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to just engage and continue a conversation about all kinds

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of things.

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Speaker 3: I absolutely loved it. It was one of the most

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satisfying trying for filling. Yeah. Absolutely, yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think part of the joy of that is that

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that particular situation was player driven, So the players are

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all complicit in enjoying that atmosphere that they've created between them,

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and they want to continue that conversation. And let me

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tell you something, as a DM, I love it when

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I've created a framework and my players are just playing

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in it. Yep, I barely have to do anything. They're

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enjoying themselves. They're interacting with each other, maybe occasionally bouncing

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off the NPC, and then before you know it, two

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hours passed near EA dice has been rolled. I've got

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other opinions about that, which we'll say for another time.

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But when it's player driven like that.

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Speaker 1: And it won't always be the case in I wouldn't

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want the entire period of playing to be that necessarily,

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but once in a while. Yeah, I mean it stands out.

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It's six months or more ago, and it stands out

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as a highlight in my playing so far in the

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year and a half of gaming to just go well, actually, yeah,

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that one episode that was great where we just chatted

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and we still progressed the game as well.

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Speaker 3: That was the other thing.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't just idle chit chat. It was progression of

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the progression of character as much as the story. It was.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, character progression is important. I think I was probably

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asked that just to link it back to the original

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point is I'd like to think that during that particular session,

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everyone was giving each other the light a little bit,

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sharing the torch absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it wasn't It wasn't statements. It was questions

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and responses and further questions. It wasn't here's my twenty minutes.

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Listen to me. Do you know what?

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Speaker 2: I think that's part that is quite an interesting and

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important point. I think awesome players will ask character question

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of the other characters at the table because that will,

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they said, drive character development. Asking them about their background

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in character makes for some great role playing moments.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because again, it keeps it over the table and

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not on the sheet. You're not looking at what you

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wrote down as your background. You're going, well, I'm just

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responding to you. I remembered enough of what I wrote

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down to be able to flesh it out. There might

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be a name here and there, or a specific thing

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that you want to bring up, so you reference it,

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much as we're doing now looking down at our laptops

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and going oh, yeah, that was the thing. But generally

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it's I know what I want to talk about. I'm

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interested to know what this person across the table has

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got to talk about.

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Speaker 2: What character's opinion on this?

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Speaker 3: And I try and encourage that, particularly with new players.

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Speaker 1: Is that if I noticed that they're being a bit

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quieter or a bit more held back.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and but do it in characters. Yeah, you know,

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Krav Magare, what do you think we should do next?

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Speaker 1: It's not Dave Dad, You're right mate, you.

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Speaker 2: Want for a coffee.

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Speaker 1: It's it's keeping the characters, keeping the players within their character,

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and then still allowing them the facility to join the game, yeah,

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and continue with their bit of bit of input.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think also part of that is also

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respecting your other other players at the table when they

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have time with NPCs or time with a DM. Right.

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One of my bug bears is if I'm interacting with

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an end with a player character, if i'm them and

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the NPC, I'm interacting with a player character and I've

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got other characters at the table having their own separate conversation,

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it drives me crazy. First and foremost is rude, and secondly,

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they're not engaging in the scene that's being created.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Right, So the this character is having an engagement and

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interaction with an NPC, which is should be part of

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the wider story. Which if you're having a side conversation

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regardless of it, if it's in character, takes away from

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the shared experience.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yeah, I've definitely experienced it. Probably at the same

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table as you have it on occasion of you know,

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as you say, the DM as a certain character is

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having a conversation with one or two specific players around

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the table in character and evolving the plot points, or

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even if it's something as innocuous as a shopping thing,

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it might be important enough that the rest of the

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characters need to pay attention to it. At the very least,

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it's courtesy to not continue a conversation. Yeah, And also

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often you get oh, you don't know, I'll go what's next?

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Speaker 3: Then yeah, well it's not.

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Speaker 2: It's almost of a well what's in it for me? Actually,

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isn't it?

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Speaker 1: And it's not a case of what's next, it's I'm

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enjoying the other people at the table help tell their

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bit of the story.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that of course.

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Speaker 1: And then the opposite being players jumping in when they're

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not in the scene is a.

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Speaker 3: Little bit of a bug bit.

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Speaker 1: I feel that's more of a what makes it To

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get it back on topic of what makes a good

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role player is respond when it's a valid and not Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's I think that is related is

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if you are constantly diving in on other people's interactions

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for no other reason other than to make sure that

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your character is your character is involved. As opposed to

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sitting and enjoying the interaction. It feels a little selfish

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and it takes the shine away or the light away

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from those characters that are having it show on them

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for a little bit. So I think, yeah, a good

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a good role player would allow that that tughts to

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be passed around a little bit and encourage that I've

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got one more on my list, which would give me

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my fly. Just respecting the DM's rulings.

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Speaker 3: Well, is that a controversial thing?

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Speaker 2: Respect the DM? Well, if it's things like on rules,

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if they're playing an NPC, if the DM is talking,

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I mean, I don't want to come across like an

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old school teacher. But if the DM is talking, it

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would it, you know, be much of a trouble to

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just be quiet for a little bit and try and

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listen to what's being Yeah, the plot that's being Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It tur into all of the other points we've had.

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You're not playing a video game. You're not skipping the

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cut scene.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't get to skip the cut scene.

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Speaker 1: It's happening in front of you, So you listen to it.

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It might not be again, it might not be your scene,

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it might.

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Speaker 2: Not be the thing that your character wants, it might

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be someone else's.

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Speaker 3: But it's all valid. It all builds the world that

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you're playing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it doesn't mean you can't give critique

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or feedback on a particular rule. So take going back

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to the rules as an example. If I'm not entirely

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sure about how something works, and you're not entirely sure

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about some how something works, I'll generally just make a

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ruling and let's run with this, and then the next

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game I'll correct it if it needs to be corrected.

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What I don't want is a ten minute long argument

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at the table while you tell me your opinion and

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I tell you my opinion, and we're no further from

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the truth to the truth. I would rather Well, unless

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you let me, I'm going to make a ruling. We're

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gonna run with it, unless unless it's game breaking. If

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it's going to player death, you know, you fall off

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a building, you die. Well, No, that's again in D

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and D that's not necessarily correct unless you le have

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one player and you're unlucky. So I'm not going to

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outright wizard constitution though, well, yeah, I mean I played

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with players that would absolutely be the case for the character.

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But yeah, I know what you're saying for the most part.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so you know, if if it's going to

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be your characterized, if I get the wrong ruling wrong,

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sure I would pause and consider it. If it's just

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you take some damage or you don't, then you take

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the damage unless I say otherwise, and then I'll check.

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If it becomes the point of death, then may work

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out a way of balancing it on the next round.

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Speaker 2: It's true for for for knowledge, your character wouldn't know, right,

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So if a beastie does a certain you're fighting an

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enemy and it acts a certain way, it has more

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actions than you might expect, it does different things that

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you might expect. Well, if you're suddenly stopping every five

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minutes to argue the fact, well can that monster do that? Well, yeah,

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DM said it can, so yeah it can, unless it's

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going to completely kill the game. And assuming you've got

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a fairly competent and fair DM that is trying to

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challenge but yet make an interesting and flavorsome campaign for

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you to play in. Let them do their job, respect

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what they're doing, and just do your character. Your involvement

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is on your sheet and being that person in the

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world that you are creating together the numbers, stats and

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everything else, the NPC's monsters, all of that damage what

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you're rolling. Leave that to the DM and respect. They say,

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I guess respect what their their decision and judgment.

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Speaker 1: Again, coming back similar to the not asking for a role,

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00:11:06,799 --> 00:11:09,679
but asking, you know, describing what your character's doing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you've got half a d M worth of sort,

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recognize what you're doing and it will throw out, Oh

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00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,679
well I can. I can understand you're you're looking around

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the room for a specific thing role a perception check

217
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or oh you want to you want to dig through

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00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,480
this this guy's belongings for a specific clue, role in

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00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:27,720
investigation check, I see what your character was doing.

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Speaker 1: If you, as a player are making an assumption, the

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assumption should be the least not the best. You shouldn't

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assume you're going to find a thing. You shouldn't assume

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that you saw or heard something occurring. I was playing

224
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at the weekend. My ranger was down the corridor from

225
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where the jelly arrived. I didn't assume I saw it.

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I asked the question, did my range to see this happening.

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I'd rather ask a question and get told no than

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assume I had kiss off the DM and then have

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him resent me or the rest of the players resent me,

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Because again, I've had that where I've had a conversation

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as a character with the d MS NPC, you know,

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one hundred yards away from the rest of the characters,

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and then they've been suddenly teleported next to me as

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though they've been in the conversation.

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Speaker 2: Oh I heard all this, Maiden, You are one hundred

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yards away. You didn't hear anything.

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Speaker 3: And I would much rather that.

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Speaker 1: I much rather be oblivious to everything other than what's

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directly in front of my eyes as a player and

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as a character, and then go, well.

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Speaker 3: I know that's happening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you can react to what you know.

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Speaker 3: I know what that monster does. I'd rather see what

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that monster does as this character.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, reacting to what your character knows as to what

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your players that's a whole separate point, I think, but

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it's somewhat related. But yeah, just for me, respecting the

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DM's rulings, respecting the environment that he's created is a

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great hallmark of an awesome role player for me. Yeah,

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So that's absolutely agree. I should pull for your for

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your last point, I guess my last it will sound

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as simple as he is.

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Speaker 3: Really enjoyed the bad dice rolls. Oh, I like it.

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Seventy people and I like it.

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Speaker 2: That does make an excellent role player if you can

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get fun out of that.

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Speaker 1: I'd never accuse anyone of fudging dice rolls. Okay, maybe

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I would.

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Speaker 2: I have seen people fudge dive rolls.

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Speaker 1: But again, I can understand if it's life or death

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for your character, whether they roll a one or a twenty,

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then you're gonna want to win that particular role. But certainly,

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in a number of games I play, it's never going

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to be permanent life or death. There's always going to

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be an option. I've as a DM, I've killed the

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player and then five minutes later given them an out.

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There's always an option. Even if you think all is lost, well,

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it turns out there's a cleric half an hour up

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the road that if you ask him the right way,

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and you continue to role play, and your character follows

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up in the aftermath and says.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well maybe maybe we can fix this. This is right.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to go oh can I can I reroll.

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Now that one doesn't count. Oh can I can you?

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What's your characters? She got that? Mighty Well, the role

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was a three.

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Speaker 2: It happened.

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Speaker 3: You're a level three player. You've got a total of nine.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, you're messed up, But it gives you opportunity to

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learn as a player that stuff goes wrong, and see

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what fun can be had in that. See where you

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then engage with the rest of your group, even if

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you're a ghost temporarily, and go, well, yeah, I wonder

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now how invested the rest of the group are in

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my character.

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Speaker 2: I think we mentioned it back in the commitment to

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character point where it's half of the fun I think

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in the in role playing games at least comes from

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the failed vice rolls. Right, like you said, if you can,

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if you can learn to find the join in that

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and accept that, I think it opens up way more

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avenues than it closes. Just because you foiled a particular

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skill check. Oh guess what you've got an encounter? Now, well,

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that's an exciting way that you might get loot or

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XP or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Arguably, if you win every distroll, as it were to

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use that terminology, you go on a very linear path

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you've gone from A to B to C to D,

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because yeah, that's the route, the most obvious route.

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Speaker 2: You've you persuaded the innkeeper to tell you where to go.

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You pass your survival check to work your way through

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the forest. You did your investigation to find the secret

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cave mouth entrance, you did your perception check to spot

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the guards in the distance, you did your stealth check

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to sneak past them. You've gone the direct route, which, yeah,

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that's fun, But isn't it also fun for the chain

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mail to be a little bit too loud and attract

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the attention. So then you dispatch one of those guards,

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or maybe the innkeeper that you tried to persuade was

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being particularly curmudgeonally that day and he doesn't give you anything.

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So you're left trying to find your your own way there,

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maybe getting lost in.

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Speaker 3: The forest, or you interact with three other characters because.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, three other NPCs that you might never have met.

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Speaker 1: Because it's not players versus DM means it's a group storytelling, correct,

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So if that particular avenue closes, one or more opens,

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one of those fails, two more open, you fall down

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a pit. Well, that's not the end of your character.

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It turns out that at the bottom of this pit

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there's a weird little hole that you hadn't seen from

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the top layer. Whereas if you'd survived and made the jump, well, fine,

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you'd made the jump, but now you've fallen down the hole.

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Speaker 3: Oh you found a secret trap.

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Speaker 1: Door that actually leads to whatever else, and the story

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continues and is better for the failure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's a really great point. I think

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the failed skill check is never the end of anything.

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It's just another branch of possibility.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think that's important to note, and I think, yeah,

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I think it's probably fair to say that awesome tabletop

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role players get joy out of the bad dice rolls.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it leads to the gnome falling off the log,

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smashing his nuts and falling in the river. As an example,

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it was superb. It was great, superb, and that leading

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to a rescue attempt.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was. It was a player driven.

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Speaker 1: The role was at disadvantage because he was getting pelted

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with rocks by one of the other players because of

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that player's character was an ass hat quite frankly, so

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it's a full on ass hat.

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Speaker 3: He made it harder.

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Speaker 1: Everyone was having fun, including the person who was called

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Nutsmasher who ended up getting his nuts mashed.

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Speaker 2: It's solid name, and everyone enjoyed the failure.

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Speaker 3: It was better than you made it across the log.

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Well done.

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Speaker 2: Awesome. Let's do a little recap of your list. I'll

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do a recap of mine, and then we'll go from there.

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Yeah yeah, so let's give you all this one from

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top to box.

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Speaker 1: So mine, Yeah, as I thought of them earlier. Play

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your character and not your sheets. So do whatever you

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want to try, regardless of the numbers that might lead

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to successful failure, engaging with the story and the other players.

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It's not a computer game to win, It's a story

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to be told between the group, being original even within

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the obvious. So pick your favorite combination of class in

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character race, but then see where you can go with

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it outside of the obvious. Know how your stuff works,

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and then, as we've just covered, enjoy the bad dice rolls.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of fun to be had there.

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Speaker 2: So with me. Like we talked about, knowing your stuff,

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an important one hat to know everything, just at least

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what's on your sheet. Commitment to your character, being your

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character within the world, and enjoying the environment that you're

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all creating together. Being an adventurer, so following those plot hooks,

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saving the prince or princess, searching out that treasure. That's

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all part of the fun. Part and parcel of the

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stuff that I create. Might be different for you, but

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that's what I love. Respecting the DM, the rulings the world,

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and openness and inclusiveness, allowing others to share the light.

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So let people shine, ask questions with the other characters,

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dig a little bit into their backgrounds, develop those bonds,

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and respect the time that they have with NPCs, and

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respect the time that they have in having conversation with

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each other. Don't have lead player syndrome or lead character syndrome.

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You're not the hero, You're all heroes. I think that's

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pretty much it. Have you got anything else to add

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on that?

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Speaker 1: No, I think that would be far and away all

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of the things and more that I've been looking for

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in excellent type role players.

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Speaker 2: There may well be more. I mean, I originally wrote

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out seven eight, had to narrow it down to five.

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We could do another one potentially, but we think we

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colored pretty much everything there.

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Speaker 1: Maybe the key things for in anyone I want to

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share a table, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: One, And we're lucky enough to have great players at

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our tables that share many of these, if not older,

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these policies regularly m hmm