WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:02.520 Sorry, it's just distracted by the dog right now, who 2 00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:06.440 is trying to bite a builder. I think Tara's femeral 3 00:00:06.519 --> 00:00:10.560 arterory out. No don't. I don't have a tourniquet. Oh damn, 4 00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:11.039 he's dead. 5 00:00:11.199 --> 00:00:17.679 Anyway, go on, guys, ask not what your country can 6 00:00:17.719 --> 00:00:21.480 do for you, Ask what you can do for your country, 7 00:00:22.199 --> 00:00:26.039 mister Gorbachev, tear down this wall. 8 00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:29.879 It's the Ricochet Podcast with Charles C. W. Cook and 9 00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:32.479 Steven Hayward. I'm James Lilyax, and today we talk about 10 00:00:32.560 --> 00:00:36.799 get this absolutely everything in the world. So let's ever 11 00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:37.640 So it's a podcast. 12 00:00:38.280 --> 00:00:45.719 No more identity months, dei offices, dudes in dresses, no 13 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:50.359 more climate change worship, no more division distraction or gender delusions, 14 00:00:50.679 --> 00:00:55.399 no more debris. As I've said before and we'll say again, 15 00:00:56.439 --> 00:00:57.439 we are done with that. 16 00:00:58.359 --> 00:01:01.479 Welcome everybody. It's the Ricochet Podcast, Episode number seven, one 17 00:01:01.560 --> 00:01:04.439 hundred and sixty. You can join us at ricochet dot com. 18 00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:05.920 By the way, if you wish, take a look at 19 00:01:05.959 --> 00:01:07.519 the site and you'll say, hey, where's this been on 20 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:10.799 my life? I'm James Lilex in Minneapolis, where it is hot, 21 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:14.879 I mean it's hot, and Stephen Hayward is somewhere in 22 00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:18.760 the world, and Charles CW. Cook, I imagine is in Florida, gentlemen, 23 00:01:18.760 --> 00:01:20.760 Are things clement and pleasant for you on this fine 24 00:01:20.799 --> 00:01:21.439 October day? 25 00:01:22.439 --> 00:01:24.519 Very much so. I'm back in California and it's a 26 00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:26.480 glorious fall day here out on the coast. 27 00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:29.439 There's nothing like a Minnesota fall. I couldn't believe it 28 00:01:29.439 --> 00:01:31.200 when I saw the tempts and I looked, what last 29 00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:32.560 year did we have? Was it forty eight? 30 00:01:32.599 --> 00:01:32.680 On? 31 00:01:32.840 --> 00:01:34.799 Last year? It was eighty two? Oh? Well, what was 32 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:37.040 it two years ago? Two years ago was eighty nine? 33 00:01:37.120 --> 00:01:40.400 I thought, if I completely rethought my missed my October 34 00:01:40.439 --> 00:01:44.200 paradigms completely, No, this is still anomalous. And of course 35 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:47.799 I blame well, I blame climate change. And that's why 36 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:49.480 I'm happy that Bill Gates has come up with a 37 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:51.640 synthetic butter that will help us save the world. But 38 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:54.239 we'll get to that in a while. Charles, how are you. 39 00:01:54.719 --> 00:01:58.200 I'm doing well. It's very rainy here. Then it's rainy late. 40 00:01:58.760 --> 00:02:01.079 It's not supposed to be rainy season, but it is 41 00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:04.120 doing that delightful Florida thing of raining. 42 00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:07.200 While Sonny, yes, we used to call that the devil 43 00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:09.560 is beating his wife when we were kids. You know, 44 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:12.039 it would rain in the sun. I don't know what 45 00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:13.400 that meant or why we said it, but had been 46 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:17.039 passed down for generations. While speaking of the devil, we 47 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:19.280 have the federal government, which is at the moment inert 48 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:21.960 It has been shut down, doesn't exist. I don't know 49 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:24.159 if you guys are looking around and seeing the complete 50 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:27.159 absence of commercial and social activity as a result, but 51 00:02:27.240 --> 00:02:32.599 here we are. The question is, gosh, why did this happen. 52 00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:35.199 I'll let either of you jump in and tell me why. 53 00:02:36.280 --> 00:02:38.159 Well, I'll happy to jump in on this first, because 54 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:41.120 I'm very cranky on this whole subject. Now. First of all, 55 00:02:41.159 --> 00:02:43.680 I like to point out governments shut down. Oh my god, 56 00:02:43.719 --> 00:02:45.240 it's the end of the world. That's how the media 57 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:47.680 like to treat it. But I always like to ask people, 58 00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:51.000 are your local police still patrolling? Are your local schools 59 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:55.520 still open? Is your local city government processing building permits 60 00:02:55.879 --> 00:02:58.520 and business license applications? Well not in California, they don't 61 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:01.240 do that anyway. But you get the point. We have 62 00:03:01.360 --> 00:03:05.560 I think in around numbers about fifty thousand government units 63 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:08.000 in this country. When you go in a nurse, federalist 64 00:03:08.039 --> 00:03:09.840 system if you go all the way down to the 65 00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:14.039 local mosquito abatement district in Duluth, and they're all still functioning. 66 00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:16.439 And that, of course is the government that is closest 67 00:03:16.439 --> 00:03:18.240 to the people in their day to day lives. So 68 00:03:18.759 --> 00:03:20.879 government shutdown is one level of government. 69 00:03:20.919 --> 00:03:21.000 Now. 70 00:03:21.039 --> 00:03:24.120 It is the biggest and spends the most money, but 71 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:27.439 for the vast majority of Americans does not really come 72 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:29.680 close to their day to day lives very often, unless 73 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:31.680 you're trying to get into a national park when Obama 74 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:34.800 shuts them down and so forth. The second thing is 75 00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:38.719 it's not even really a complete government shutdown on the 76 00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:42.240 federal level, right We're still sending out Social Security checks 77 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:45.240 and Medicare payments as I understand it. The military is 78 00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:49.000 still getting paid and still on patrol. And I don't 79 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:50.680 quite know how this happened, but this has been the 80 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:53.560 case for many years now in their government shutdowns that 81 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:57.439 we seem to exempt the things that would really bite people, right. 82 00:03:57.520 --> 00:03:59.520 I mean, if we really had a thirty day government 83 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:03.360 shutdown and social Security checks didn't get delivered, I think 84 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:06.560 you would see mass marches of citizens at their local 85 00:04:07.039 --> 00:04:09.919 congress quitter's office and so forth. So we exempt a 86 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:11.960 lot of things that would make it really bite and 87 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:15.080 really hurt a broad swath, and so this has become 88 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:18.800 kobuki theater. I think there would be much less interest 89 00:04:18.839 --> 00:04:22.720 in either party of having a government shutdown if it 90 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:26.240 really involved truly shutting down the federal government, and so 91 00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:29.279 it allows this kabuki theater to go forward for both parties. 92 00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:32.120 And so there's some kind of sinister bipartisan agreement there. 93 00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:33.759 And those are my. 94 00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:35.800 Opening bids about how cranky I am about all this, 95 00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:37.879 although on the other hand, I was kind of like it. 96 00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:41.680 I like Phil Graham's remark after the ninety six government 97 00:04:41.720 --> 00:04:44.079 shutdown where he said, I thought our only mistake was 98 00:04:44.120 --> 00:04:47.160 opening it back up again. And you can almost see 99 00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:50.120 the Trump people have kind of that disposition, with Russ 100 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:52.879 Voyd going around saying, let's start firing people and closing 101 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:55.439 up programs because they're not funded well. 102 00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:57.879 I think in the last Obama shutdown they closed the 103 00:04:57.959 --> 00:05:00.480 road going to Mount Rushmore. I think this time they're 104 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:02.839 letting people go through, but they have to wear extremely 105 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:04.800 dark glasses and they give them a white cane and 106 00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:07.160 they can't actually see it, or they're draping a tarp 107 00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:09.920 over the faces. I can't remember exactly which one it was. Charles, 108 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:12.480 Are you as cranky as Steve about this or have you? 109 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:15.319 Are you looking forward to the blood letting that is 110 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:19.240 supposed to come when people are laid off all mass 111 00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:24.560 rif not just furloughed, and agencies are zeroed out during 112 00:05:24.600 --> 00:05:28.079 this opportunity, because apparently there's some mechanism by which vast 113 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:30.560 swaths of the federal government can be deemed hey, don't 114 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:33.920 need it, and they can take they can zero them 115 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:34.800 out legally. 116 00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:40.279 Yeah, Steve is more depressed about it than I am. 117 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:43.000 In the last couple of days, I've committed so many 118 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:46.199 federal crimes. It's been glorious. Just one. 119 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:46.680 I know. 120 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:52.399 I don't particularly care about it, except in so far 121 00:05:52.439 --> 00:05:55.279 as it illustrates that we have far more federal employees 122 00:05:55.399 --> 00:06:01.000 that we need. I don't think that it has been 123 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:04.480 reported particularly honestly. For once, it's not Republicans who are 124 00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:07.600 shutting down the government. And what's really weird about this 125 00:06:07.720 --> 00:06:11.560 from my perspective is I remember all of the shutdowns 126 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:14.519 since I moved to the United States in twenty eleven 127 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:19.319 because I have had to cover them, and it's odd 128 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:21.879 to see the Democrats shutting down the government, which is 129 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:24.079 what they did. It's not a value judgment, it's just 130 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:28.959 a statement of fact. The filibuster requires sixty votes for 131 00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:32.399 this to go through. Republicans have fifty three of those votes, 132 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:35.319 and they need seven Democrats to join them, and those 133 00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:41.560 seven Democrats haven't yet shown up. But having debated allowed 134 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:43.680 for eight months whether they were going to shut down 135 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:47.680 the government, and having then decided to shut down the government, 136 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:50.040 the Democrats are now pretending that they didn't shut down 137 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:52.800 the government. And all of the Democrats' friends in the 138 00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:58.720 media and in NGOs are greatly offended by the claim 139 00:06:58.839 --> 00:07:01.279 that the Democrats shut down the government, whereas all of 140 00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:03.639 the times that Republicans have shut down the government in 141 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:06.279 the last decade and a bit, which is a lot, 142 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:08.879 they were the ones running out in front of the cameras. 143 00:07:09.079 --> 00:07:11.879 I did that, I was made I did that. It's 144 00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:14.439 not as if Ted Cruz pretended that he didn't shut 145 00:07:14.439 --> 00:07:16.839 down the government. He would shut up about it. Republicans 146 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:19.240 when they do this, they go on and on and 147 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:21.360 on about it, and the base is even louder, and 148 00:07:21.399 --> 00:07:24.240 they get angry with the people in the Republican Party 149 00:07:24.279 --> 00:07:27.560 who suggest that the government should not be shut down forever, 150 00:07:27.800 --> 00:07:30.319 or perhaps that the government's shut down isn't going to 151 00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:32.519 yield the results that they want. So it's just very 152 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:35.360 funny to me to watch Democrats having done this because 153 00:07:35.399 --> 00:07:38.279 Trump is a dictator and it's not normal, and we 154 00:07:38.360 --> 00:07:41.600 can't go back to the status quo, and we have 155 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:46.000 to gain the extra health spending that we want, not 156 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:48.920 a continuing resolution extra health spending, And then to say, 157 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:51.600 how dare you suggest we had anything to do with it? 158 00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:55.079 It does betray a certain level of insecurity. 159 00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:58.519 Well, Tim Wald's governor here tweeted out to that, you know, 160 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:00.839 the Republicans control all the branches of government, yet they 161 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:03.920 can't get this thing Through's that's on them, of course, 162 00:08:04.120 --> 00:08:08.000 showing either willful or otherwise ignorance of the Senate procedures. 163 00:08:08.439 --> 00:08:13.160 He also noted that he's being contacted by several politicians 164 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:15.920 and figures in Europe who are concerned about what's going on. 165 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:18.399 And I just have a hard time thinking that mccron's 166 00:08:18.439 --> 00:08:21.120 got Tim Woltzon his speed dial and is calling up 167 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:27.480 to say are the reports in the Express true? Very so? Yes, 168 00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:30.040 so there we are, but what is it over? 169 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:30.600 Really? 170 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:33.000 Do you think that people are understanding that the issue 171 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:36.799 here is the funding of care for people who are 172 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:38.960 not citizens. And they tell us that's not the case. 173 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:41.600 It's never been the case. They can't be funded. But 174 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:44.519 what we're talking about, aren't we as the reimbursement to 175 00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:48.480 hospitals who take care of people who walk into the er, etc. Etc. 176 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:51.639 Is that not part of this which sounds to me 177 00:08:51.799 --> 00:08:54.559 like funding of people who are not citizens. Yeah. 178 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:57.799 So, I mean, the political strategy here is pretty clear. 179 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:01.440 If you look at the polling on issues. Republicans lead 180 00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:04.039 on almost everything, even education, which used to be a 181 00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:08.159 democratic issue that they had slight favorability ratings on. But 182 00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:11.000 the one place where Democrats still lead Republicans as the 183 00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:14.840 party better able to handle the issue is healthcare. And 184 00:09:14.879 --> 00:09:16.639 so they're going to push that and they think that 185 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:19.519 and apparently there are a lot of nervous Republicans, and 186 00:09:19.559 --> 00:09:22.240 according to some press reports, even some people in the 187 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:26.159 Trump White House worried about this vulnerability. Now, what I 188 00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:29.000 see here is yet another example of what's been famously 189 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:33.639 described as the ratchet effect. Democrats use COVID and then 190 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:37.679 the spending blowouts under Biden to ratchet up essentially the 191 00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:39.879 welfare state. They want to lock us into a higher 192 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:43.759 level of spending for healthcare, and the Republicans quite rightly 193 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:46.960 scaled that back with the One Big Beautiful Bill, and 194 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:49.840 so the Democrats want to restore that upward ratchet of 195 00:09:49.879 --> 00:09:52.879 spending because it always establishes a new higher baseline for 196 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:56.080 social spending. I do think it really reveals the failure 197 00:09:56.159 --> 00:09:59.679 of Obamacare. It was supposed to solve this problem, supposed 198 00:09:59.679 --> 00:10:01.840 to reduce cost. We remember all that flim flam from 199 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:05.279 fifteen years ago, and Republicans so far have not been 200 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:07.879 very effective in arguing about it. I think their best 201 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:10.919 argument is the fact that Democrats. There's this video is 202 00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:14.000 going around from the twenty twenty primary campaign of Democrats 203 00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:17.559 every candidate raising your hands saying their healthcare plans would 204 00:10:17.559 --> 00:10:23.000 include coverage for illegal immigrants undocumented immigrants, right, and because 205 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:26.440 now they're running away from that, but I think Republicans 206 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:28.720 hold a high hand on that. So I don't know, 207 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:31.480 we're only what forty eight hours into all this, and 208 00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:34.559 you're already hearing rumors or Republicans saying, well, maybe we 209 00:10:34.600 --> 00:10:37.720 can make some kind of deal on Affordable Care Act funding. 210 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:41.240 And I sure hope they don't. But that's you know, 211 00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:44.840 Republicans always, not always cave, but they tend to cave 212 00:10:44.919 --> 00:10:47.879 on these things because, as Charlie points out, they're usually 213 00:10:47.879 --> 00:10:50.080 the people who started. Well, this time, they aren't the 214 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:51.799 ones who started it, and I think they should sit 215 00:10:51.879 --> 00:10:54.600 back and increase the pain on the Democrats. 216 00:10:55.320 --> 00:10:59.919 Well, Charlie, do you think that the healthcare for on 217 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:03.279 documented citizens is an electoral winner for do they believe 218 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:05.919 that it is or what is the dynamic here, because 219 00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:07.840 surely they have to look at poles. Surely they have 220 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:10.000 to look at studies that are most Americans ualla generous 221 00:11:10.039 --> 00:11:14.240 people and believe in immigration, are draw the line at 222 00:11:14.279 --> 00:11:16.799 being obligated to take care of the medical bills of 223 00:11:16.840 --> 00:11:19.879 anybody who walks through the border illegally. That can't be 224 00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:22.039 an electoral winner for them. And then surely they have 225 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:22.480 to know that. 226 00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:25.440 Well, they do know that, which is why they're denying 227 00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:29.480 that would be the consequences of their policies and describing 228 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:31.639 anyone who suggests otherwise it's a liar. And of course 229 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:34.759 it is true because money is fungible. It's quite difficult 230 00:11:34.759 --> 00:11:37.360 to explain this to someone who's not that interested in politics. 231 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:40.080 But Obviously, if the federal government sends the states money 232 00:11:40.120 --> 00:11:42.080 and then gives them flexibility how they use it, and 233 00:11:42.080 --> 00:11:43.960 then they use it on illegal immigrants, and then they 234 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:45.919 get more money from the federal government and they can 235 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:47.960 replace one set of money with the other, and we're 236 00:11:47.960 --> 00:11:52.159 spending federal money on illegal immigrants. It's worth saying, though, 237 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:55.480 that this is the Republican charge. It's true, but it's 238 00:11:55.519 --> 00:11:58.720 a Republican charge the Democrats are denying. What the Democrats 239 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:02.480 are saying is that they want to keep Obamacare subsidies high, 240 00:12:02.519 --> 00:12:06.559 and they pretend that the increase in subsidies will keep 241 00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:09.559 the cost of Obamacare plans low. Well, of course it 242 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:12.440 won It will make them lower at the point of use, 243 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:15.840 but that doesn't actually keep healthcare costs low because taxpayers 244 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:18.440 are still picking it up. What I find the annoying 245 00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:21.559 about this is that the Republicans for once have a 246 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:25.720 completely unimpeachable case. They have presented a continuing resolution that 247 00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:29.039 is clean. Their view is we're not asking for changes 248 00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:31.399 in the federal government, even though they have majorities in 249 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:36.759 both chambers and rather the presidency. They just want to 250 00:12:36.759 --> 00:12:39.159 continue at the current rate and then deal with any 251 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:41.840 changes to the budget afterwards, and as the Democrats who 252 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:44.360 are saying, no, we wish to use our position to 253 00:12:44.600 --> 00:12:47.639 make changes. Now, that's fine. I like the filibuster, and 254 00:12:47.720 --> 00:12:50.480 I have been on record over and over again saying 255 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:54.000 you are allowed from the minority to demand changes. Congress 256 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:56.039 works like that. I don't want there to be a 257 00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:59.240 structural change here. But the reason it annoys me is 258 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:03.080 that Republicans have been really admirably consistent on the filibuster 259 00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:05.519 now for a long time. In the first Trump administration, 260 00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:08.159 despite Trump suggesting a couple of times they should get 261 00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:11.360 rid of the filibuster, Republicans didn't. They then got about 262 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:13.879 thirty six Senate Democrats on record saying that they like 263 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:16.399 the filibuster. Then the Democrats took over the Senate and 264 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:18.120 they said, we've got to get rid of the filibuster. 265 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:21.320 And it's only because Joe Manchin and Kirsten Cinema said 266 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:24.799 no that the filibuster survived. Now Republicans are back with 267 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:28.360 unified controller government. They confirmed yesterday they have no intention 268 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:30.919 of getting rid of the filibuster and the Democrats are 269 00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:34.159 the ones using it. So having gone from we like 270 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:37.000 it when the Republicans are in power to we need 271 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:38.360 to get rid of it because it's a relic of 272 00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:40.720 Jim Crow. They're now back at We will use it 273 00:13:40.759 --> 00:13:43.960 when the Republicans are in power. The second reason they're 274 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:46.799 annoying me, James, is that although the details that we 275 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:51.080 just mentioned are important, this actually is not a shutdown 276 00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:55.200 over an issue. They haven't really shut down the government 277 00:13:55.279 --> 00:14:00.519 over healthcare subsidies to illegal immigrants or increased subsidies for Obama. 278 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:04.120 They are cross with Trump. It's a general thing. Their 279 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:07.879 base needs some action, and this is it. They are, 280 00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:10.559 in the case of Chuck Schumer, trying to avoid a primary, 281 00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:12.720 in the case of the Democratic Party in general, trying 282 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:15.840 to show that quote unquote they fight, and this is 283 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:17.799 just not a good reason to shut down the government. 284 00:14:17.799 --> 00:14:19.960 If they had an actual demand, that's fine with me. 285 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:22.600 I'm pro Filibusta, I'm pro minority rights in the Senate, 286 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:25.080 go for it. But I don't think anyone really believes 287 00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:27.919 this is anything other than an attempt to show that 288 00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:29.240 they aren't supine. 289 00:14:29.799 --> 00:14:33.960 Yeah, fighting, because there's nothing more. There's no stronger proof 290 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:37.279 that we live in an authoritarian Hitler regime than allowing 291 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:44.440 the opposition to just completely shut everything down without consequence. Well, 292 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:50.919 speaking of hardball, the OMB director has decided that, well, 293 00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:53.519 we should make a while sunshines, never let a crisis 294 00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:57.559 go to waste, etc. And preparing for a lot of cuts, 295 00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:01.399 including some infrastructure cuts to chicag Go and to New York. 296 00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:04.600 I believe that there's a tunnel in New York that 297 00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:08.159 will not get funded, and I believe that there's infrastructure 298 00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:10.120 projects in Chicago as well. And a lot of this 299 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:13.200 is saying that you have not eliminated your DEI programs, 300 00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:16.240 and since you're going to character you're going to carry 301 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:20.639 on allocating spoils by a racial nature, we're not going 302 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:22.600 to fund it. And some people regard this as more 303 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:28.600 examples of the punitive overreach of the authoritarian state. Again, 304 00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:32.679 not spending money on infrastructure does not sound a lot 305 00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:35.000 like the guys who built the autobah, but do go on, 306 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:38.519 So what do you make of this? Is this just 307 00:15:38.840 --> 00:15:43.159 more political punishment from a vindictive regime or is this 308 00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:46.080 using the opportunity to trim things that ought not to 309 00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:47.320 be spent on in the first place. 310 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:51.360 Charls, you go first on this one. 311 00:15:51.559 --> 00:15:55.000 Well, I think both. I think there's no doubt that 312 00:15:55.039 --> 00:15:59.200 this administration and the last one wants to will use 313 00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:03.360 its power ways that I would rather they didn't. I 314 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:06.519 think that we have entered into a period in which 315 00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:09.919 the enormous latitude that is given to the executive branch 316 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:16.159 is abused. At the same time, if the specific complaint 317 00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:20.159 is that there is racial discrimination, then it is entirely 318 00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:23.080 reasonable for the federal government to say not on our watch. 319 00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:26.679 Not only does the Fourteenth Amendment quite clearly prohibit that, 320 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:28.919 and if it doesn't, the Civil Rights Act does. But 321 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:32.759 we've now had Supreme Court decision after Supreme Court decision 322 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:36.919 that has made that clear. And I understand that progressives 323 00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:41.879 seem truly, in many cases to earnestly believe that racial 324 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:45.600 discrimination of the sort that they like isn't racial discrimination, 325 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:51.720 but it is affirmative action. Is racial discrimination. Granting particular 326 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:56.919 distributions of public money to particular groups because they are 327 00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:00.679 of that particular group is racial discrimination. So if that 328 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:02.879 is the proximate cause of it, I am on board. 329 00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:05.880 I do think though, that we have got far too 330 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:09.799 comfortable in America with Congress writing laws that are vague, 331 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:12.799 and then with the executive branch using the power that 332 00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:17.920 it's been given to help its friends and hurt its enemies. Right. 333 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:20.400 I agree with you, you know, and I think a lot 334 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:23.559 of Americans would be okay with some affirmative action if 335 00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:25.599 they actually felt that it was efficacious. But I think 336 00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:27.200 a lot of people suspect that in New York and 337 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:29.200 in large cities that the money goes to cutouts, and 338 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:32.039 there's this incredible amount of corruption and cronyism that's actually 339 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:35.240 going on. But it is illustrative to say the administration 340 00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:39.039 is going to withhold funds because you are racially discriminating, 341 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:41.079 which sounds like the sort of thing that Americans ought 342 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:43.359 to get to behind, and the previous administration would say, 343 00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:46.799 we're going to withhold funds unless you adjust your title 344 00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:51.039 nine athletics to include men who believe that they are women. 345 00:17:51.640 --> 00:17:54.119 The balance on those issues and the popularity of them, 346 00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:56.240 I think is striking, Steve. And you've now had enough 347 00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:58.480 time to come up with your response, and. 348 00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:01.039 Well, yeah, I mean what I do like about it? 349 00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:04.640 I mean, I agree with Charlie in the abstract. In practice, 350 00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:08.200 I kind of liked the scene we're seeing the Trump 351 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:13.279 administration using the tools liberals devised against the left. I mean, 352 00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:16.240 I mean, the left in power especially has used all 353 00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:19.200 these civil rights tools to bully people public and private 354 00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:22.880 alike for decades now. And this is some old history, 355 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:26.400 but you know, the reg administration won a very big 356 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:28.640 Supreme Court case, I think in nineteen eighty eight or 357 00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:30.920 maybe in the eight nineteen eighty nine, the Adoran case, 358 00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:33.839 saying that we can't have quotas and timetables and all 359 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:37.440 these things for federal contracting. And what happened. The Republicans 360 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:40.559 immediately crumpled under the charge that this was racist, and 361 00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:43.000 they signed on to under the first President Bush, the 362 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:47.519 Civil Rights Restoration Act, which essentially nullvied the progress that 363 00:18:47.559 --> 00:18:49.680 the Supreme Court was moving by inches to where they 364 00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:53.039 are today. So not this time. The Trump people, and 365 00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:55.640 I think Republicans have learned their lesson, are not only 366 00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:57.720 saying no to that, but are saying, we don't care 367 00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:01.400 about you. The racism charge has lost its sting. And 368 00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:03.359 one last point, James is, I don't know if it's 369 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:05.400 on your list of topics you want to bring up today, 370 00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:08.359 but an example of how people are fed up with 371 00:19:09.079 --> 00:19:12.519 affirmative action out of control is this extraordinary story out 372 00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:15.519 of Iowa where what a school district hired as a 373 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:19.240 superintendenty at three hundred thousand dollars a year, an illegal 374 00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:22.839 alien who had a deportation order and a criminal record 375 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:26.119 and a false CV claiming he had a doctorate when 376 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:28.839 he didn't, and they hired him anyway, knowing some of 377 00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:32.720 those things, not everything about him. And you know, it's 378 00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:35.119 pretty clearly now that the Left has been running a 379 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:38.440 racial spoils racket for a long time. And so while 380 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:40.559 I also agree in the abstract that you can make 381 00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:43.319 a case for affirmative action, and I think, Charlie, I 382 00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:44.960 don't know if you brought this up on law talk, 383 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:48.240 but someone who actually defends affirmative action and college admissions 384 00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:54.519 is Richard Epstein amazing. But I've also listened to why 385 00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:56.960 he thinks that, and he makes the only cojin case 386 00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:00.839 I think for it. Nonetheless, I think now it's such 387 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:03.440 a corrupt racket that we want to be done with 388 00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:06.480 it once and for all. Kill it by any means necessary. 389 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:08.720 And by the way, all the Supreme Court cases that 390 00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:10.640 Charlie referenced are going to make it hard to bring 391 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:14.160 it back under a democratic administration, although they will certainly try. 392 00:20:14.680 --> 00:20:16.680 I have to say, just as a quick aside, I 393 00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:21.480 love being called a racist for opposing decisions made based 394 00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:24.680 on race. I think this is the most extraordinary thing 395 00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:28.519 that happens. When affirmative action was finally overturned, eighty percent 396 00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:32.319 of the American public said great, and the left set 397 00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:36.480 that's racism. So a you think that it's racism to 398 00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:39.160 say that you can't discriminate based on race, and be 399 00:20:39.319 --> 00:20:41.839 your position is that eighty percent of the American public 400 00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:44.759 is racist. It is just an extraordinary example of how 401 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:46.200