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<v Speaker 1>Check out this clip from a recent episode of Booked

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<v Speaker 1>on Rock Rachel Brodsky. She is the author of the

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<v Speaker 1>upcoming book Lessons and Lace. Everything I know about dreams,

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<v Speaker 1>heartbreak and Magic I learned from Stevie Nicks What's great

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<v Speaker 1>to See. Over the last I guess decade or so,

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<v Speaker 1>she got into the Rock Hall as a solo artist.

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<v Speaker 1>The attendance numbers started to go up, and she started

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<v Speaker 1>to get this recognition even more so than before. Younger

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<v Speaker 1>artists look up to her. But like you write in

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<v Speaker 1>the book, she was once underestimated, misunderstood, dismissed, and mocked.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm still trying to figure out why that is.

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<v Speaker 1>Why do you think so many critics initially failed to

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<v Speaker 1>recognize her depth as an artist.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, part of that, I think is just

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<v Speaker 2>old fashioned misogyny in the sixties and seventies women, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>women have always had to fight their way to the front,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, women of color especially, But the kind

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<v Speaker 2>of misogynistic takes on women in music have they've changed, like,

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<v Speaker 2>because they do still exist. But then I think it

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<v Speaker 2>was a bit more blatant. So in the sixties and seventies,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean Stevie's basically in like a boys club, and

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<v Speaker 2>to an extent, Rock has always been that way, but

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<v Speaker 2>at this time she is one of many fewer women

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<v Speaker 2>trying to do this.

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<v Speaker 1>You think about how important Stevie and Christy mcvae words

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<v Speaker 1>of Fleetwo Mac, especially as you get the late eighties

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<v Speaker 1>when Lindsay Buckingham exits the band and they carried that

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<v Speaker 1>group in terms of hit singles, keeping them in the

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<v Speaker 1>public eye and writing solid songs.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, when I say that she was underappreciated and undervalued

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<v Speaker 2>and not really taken seriously, I'm thinking mostly of the

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<v Speaker 2>mid seventies when she enters Fleetwood Mac and first they

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<v Speaker 2>You know, when Nick Fleet would expressed interest in bringing

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<v Speaker 2>on Lindsay Buckingham and to Fleet with Mac, it wasn't like, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>like I'd like you and your singing partner Stevie Nicks

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<v Speaker 2>to join. It was oh, I want, I want Lindsay

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<v Speaker 2>and and and uh. I've write a few different takes

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<v Speaker 2>as to who actually settled, but also Stevie Nicks has

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<v Speaker 2>to come. But Stevie, Stevie was sort of Steen is

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<v Speaker 2>more of an adjunct to Lindsay Buckingham's artistry, like Lindsay

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<v Speaker 2>was the one who got to before they joined the

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<v Speaker 2>fleet with Mac, Lindsay was the one who was sort

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<v Speaker 2>of playing out with other bands. He was the one

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<v Speaker 2>who was like in the studio writing, and Stevie was

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<v Speaker 2>who was doing odd jobs like uh, cleaning houses, we

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<v Speaker 2>bussing tables and and so she literally didn't get to

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<v Speaker 2>like matriculate the way that Lin Buckingham did. And so

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<v Speaker 2>when then when she went to you know, be a

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<v Speaker 2>solo artist in the early eighties, there really was this

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<v Speaker 2>big question mark hanging over the whole idea of her

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<v Speaker 2>leaving Fleetwood Mac, even just for like one or two

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<v Speaker 2>album cycles, because one thing, I didn't quite realize that

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<v Speaker 2>like now, when I was, you know, growing up, and

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<v Speaker 2>now people in band singers who start in bands leave

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<v Speaker 2>to do solo material all the time. It's just it's

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<v Speaker 2>it's completely normalized and no one really thinks anything of it.

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<v Speaker 2>But at this time, apparently it was a much riskier,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot a lot less likely, and just a harder

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<v Speaker 2>thing to do. And you know, Stevie is not only

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<v Speaker 2>wanting to go off on her own, but also she

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<v Speaker 2>wants to launch her owin record label, like in order

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<v Speaker 2>to do it, which she does. But Tom Petty, who's

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<v Speaker 2>all over Bella Donna, didn't really like it. Seemed like

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<v Speaker 2>he liked he liked her as a person, but he

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<v Speaker 2>kind of saw her and Fleet with Mac as being

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<v Speaker 2>more like pop radio and maybe a little less serious

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<v Speaker 2>than than you know, Tom, you know, and the Heartbreakers,

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<v Speaker 2>which were like, it's funny to call Tom and the

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<v Speaker 2>Heartbreakers like punk rock, but that was but but but

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<v Speaker 2>punk was kind of their their their philosophy.

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<v Speaker 1>And their mentality, like the labels, Yeah, they were punk

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<v Speaker 1>rock new wave when they first came out.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And so Stevie had. And the last thing I'll

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<v Speaker 2>say is, you know, I read a lot of the

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<v Speaker 2>interviews that Stevie Nix did and with the with Fleet

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<v Speaker 2>with Mac in the mid seventies and these if it

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<v Speaker 2>was a woman writing about her, then then she was

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<v Speaker 2>probably that the woman writer was usually a lot more

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<v Speaker 2>open minded. I guess you could say about about the

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<v Speaker 2>artists that that they she was meeting. But you know,

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<v Speaker 2>there was there were a few mid seventies early eighties definitely,

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<v Speaker 2>I think more so mid seventies interviews with Stevie where

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<v Speaker 2>like the male journalists would be looking at this person

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<v Speaker 2>and just completely writing her office like your your your featherhead,

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<v Speaker 2>Like what are you talking about with like Rihannon and

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<v Speaker 2>crystals and shawls and and like all this mystical all

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<v Speaker 2>this mystical stuff like you like I don't even want

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<v Speaker 2>to touch this, Like you are just unseerious. And and

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<v Speaker 2>that was that was the vibe. And and this is

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<v Speaker 2>not something that I had any idea of. And it

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<v Speaker 2>was so fascinating to kind of go back in time

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<v Speaker 2>in a way just by reading these old interviews and

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<v Speaker 2>like really placing myself back at that at that point,

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<v Speaker 2>because I have only ever, you know, known Stevie Nix

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<v Speaker 2>as being like the like rock and roll fairy godmother

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<v Speaker 2>who inspired legions, legions of singer songwriters, and like I've

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<v Speaker 2>never heard a bad word about her. Oh she's just

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<v Speaker 2>like so bloved. But there was a time when she

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<v Speaker 2>was just utterly dismissed as being like, uh, frivolous.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, see that, Well that answers it then, because that

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<v Speaker 1>is before my time as well. So by the time

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a fan, late eighties, early nineties, by that point,

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<v Speaker 1>she's already established herself. But in the beginning, yeah, it

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<v Speaker 1>was a much different time. Which is what that research

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<v Speaker 1>that you did for this book reveals, which leads to

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<v Speaker 1>the next question, because you mentioned you spent a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of time diving into archival interviews, documentaries, lyrics, books, any

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<v Speaker 1>surprising discoveries during your research process.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that was probably the biggest one, just the

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<v Speaker 2>extent to which she was written off, especially with like.

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<v Speaker 2>There there were a few Rolling Stone reviews, not so

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<v Speaker 2>much interviews, but reviews of Fleetwood Max Live shows with

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<v Speaker 2>like in the very beginning in like nineteen seventy five,

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<v Speaker 2>when Stevie and Lindsay joined, where they just you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the reviewer would be watching the show and be just

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<v Speaker 2>kind of like, uh, not really getting what Stevie is

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<v Speaker 2>doing on stage and not really liking her voice, calling

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<v Speaker 2>her voice kind of nasal and appealing, And so that

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<v Speaker 2>just seeing seeing the critical pushback was interesting because I've

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<v Speaker 2>never read any such thing just in my in my

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<v Speaker 2>lifetime with more current media and writers. So that was

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<v Speaker 2>probably the biggest one. I think. Also, I really don't

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<v Speaker 2>think I fully realized the extent to which Stevie felt

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<v Speaker 2>like she had to separate herself artistically from Lindsay, and

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<v Speaker 2>how Lindsay was also quite dismissive of her when she

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<v Speaker 2>went to go do her solo thing, and I don't

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<v Speaker 2>mean to, you know, crap talk Lindsay Buckingham. I'm a

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<v Speaker 2>huge Lindsay Buckingham fan too, but reading more closely about

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<v Speaker 2>their dynamic in the beginning when they joined Fleetwood Mac

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<v Speaker 2>and kind of seeing like relearning how the rest of

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<v Speaker 2>the band kind of saw their dynamic, which they viewed

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<v Speaker 2>as a bit controlling, meaning that Lindsay is seeming a

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<v Speaker 2>bit controlling of Stevie. And then just sort of how

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<v Speaker 2>she slowly kind of gained her self confidence enough to

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<v Speaker 2>separate herself from him and be her own planet, as

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<v Speaker 2>it were.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't miss the full conversation, available wherever you listen to

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<v Speaker 1>your podcasts.