WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:02.879 Batting lead off with one of our favorites, and I'm 2 00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:05.000 told he's in the heart of New York City, in 3 00:00:05.080 --> 00:00:07.559 midtown Manhattan is where we find our friend Lee Ellis 4 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:08.839 on a Tuesday afternoon. 5 00:00:08.919 --> 00:00:11.679 Lee, Happy Tuesday, sir. How are you fine? 6 00:00:11.679 --> 00:00:13.240 Thanks Bence, Thanks very much for having me. 7 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:16.760 How's the how's the weather? How's how are the conditions 8 00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:17.640 out in New York City? 9 00:00:18.519 --> 00:00:22.359 Actually beautiful? Really nice sunny day. Not too human as well. 10 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:24.359 I live in Atlanta, so we're already sinking hot in 11 00:00:24.399 --> 00:00:27.359 the humidity, but it's nice and breezy. The streets are alive, 12 00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:30.039 and you can sort of feel, you know, a bit 13 00:00:30.079 --> 00:00:32.159 of energy. The Nicks haven't been in a position like 14 00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:34.240 this before, and so I was down at Madison Square 15 00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:36.320 Garden before, and you know, you can sort of tell 16 00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:39.880 everyone's pretty excited and looking forward to Game one tomorrow night. 17 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:42.359 Oh, I've got the forecast up. It does look lovely 18 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:43.759 in midtown Manhattan. Good for you. 19 00:00:44.119 --> 00:00:47.320 So you reference that you can kind of feel the 20 00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:51.159 buzz in the city. Are Are you noticing people wearing 21 00:00:51.399 --> 00:00:54.359 Nick jerseys and hats and such? Are you are you 22 00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:57.000 seeing a lot of Nick paraphernalia out about New York. 23 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:01.000 Yeah, absolutely, and even one Devin book Sun's jersey which 24 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:03.600 sort of slid up to me a little bit. But 25 00:01:03.719 --> 00:01:06.719 other than that, yeah, I mean again, just the energy 26 00:01:06.760 --> 00:01:10.120 around the garden there, you know, just before, like everyone's 27 00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:12.000 sort of excited and they can't wait for it to 28 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:13.840 happen here tomorrow. And I because, as I said, they 29 00:01:13.879 --> 00:01:16.439 just haven't been in this position, this far into the 30 00:01:16.439 --> 00:01:18.840 playoffs for so long. And not only that, but I 31 00:01:18.840 --> 00:01:21.480 think they are a real chance too, because you know, 32 00:01:21.719 --> 00:01:24.560 I don't think anyone realistically had them beating the Celtics, 33 00:01:24.879 --> 00:01:28.120 and they did that quite comfortably and quite impressively. And 34 00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:30.560 now they go from having, you know, go from being 35 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:34.359 underdog in the conference semifinals to being favorite in the finals. 36 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:37.959 So it's quite a remarkable position that the Knicks find 37 00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:39.000 themselves in right now. 38 00:01:39.359 --> 00:01:44.359 You know, lee the last team to win a championship 39 00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:48.239 with a ball dominant, smallish guard as the best player 40 00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:51.680 really was Detroit back in the Isaiah Thomas you know, 41 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:55.200 nineteen eighty eight, nineteen eighty nine days. And that's who 42 00:01:55.239 --> 00:01:57.519 the Necks are now. It's not just Jalen, but if 43 00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:00.760 we're honest, he really is the engine that makes them 44 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:04.439 go What stands out most you about how Jalen Brunson 45 00:02:05.079 --> 00:02:08.039 has answered every question that's been thrown at him. A 46 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:10.960 lot of people, as you probably recall, were very skeptical 47 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:13.039 that the next decided to go all in on him, 48 00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:16.199 and I'll admit that he's better than I ever thought 49 00:02:16.199 --> 00:02:16.599 he could be. 50 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:18.479 What stands out most to you about his growth? 51 00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:22.120 I think it's that continual clutch performances. If you go 52 00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:24.759 back to the Piston series, he'd really deliver it on 53 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:26.960 the road in Detroit. He closed out that series with 54 00:02:27.039 --> 00:02:29.360 a huge three Remember they were down seven or eight 55 00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:31.800 points with about a minute togo in Game six and 56 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:33.800 Brunton stepped up and knocked down the shot. And then 57 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:36.039 the same thing in the Celtics series. And again I've 58 00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:39.199 got to give so much respect and admiration to sib 59 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:42.319 Tom Thibodeaux and the entire team because they were getting 60 00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:44.800 smoked by the Celtics in that second round, you know, 61 00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:47.840 down twenty in three games and came back and won. 62 00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:50.520 And so it's not like that was you know, that 63 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:52.639 can happen once and you can say that was an anomaly, 64 00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:54.240 But then when it happened a couple of times and 65 00:02:54.280 --> 00:02:56.479 then when it goes back to the other previous series, 66 00:02:56.680 --> 00:02:59.319 it's like this team has got some real resilience and 67 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:01.639 some real spot to them, And it starts with Brunson 68 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:04.400 because he's never afraid to take the shot. He's never 69 00:03:04.439 --> 00:03:06.520 afraid to put the ball in his hands. He's had 70 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:09.240 some really good defenders on him too. I start Thompson 71 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:12.960 while only young, very athletic, very fast, and you know, 72 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:15.719 we've right up in Brunson's grill a lot. And then 73 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:18.120 the Celtics have multiple guys they can throw it in, 74 00:03:18.199 --> 00:03:20.919 Jalen Brown and Derek White, you know, all those goes 75 00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:24.240 through holidays, another one, really good high quality defenders. But 76 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:27.439 every time Brunson has a chance, he wants the ball 77 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:29.280 in his hands. And sometimes he makes the right pass, 78 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:31.319 sometimes he hits the right shot. He doesn't, you know, 79 00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:34.120 nail every shot. But I like the fact that he doesn't, 80 00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:36.240 you know, miss the shot, and then all of a 81 00:03:36.280 --> 00:03:39.080 sudden go into his shell. He won't be afraid of 82 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:41.000 missing a shot. He just wants to take it because 83 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:43.120 that's what they employ him to do. That's what he's 84 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:45.039 paid to do. And he was a Clutch Player of 85 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:47.039 the Year in the regular season and then he's gone 86 00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:49.479 on and proven that in the playoffs. So you know, 87 00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:51.520 this is why I'm sort of in this position now 88 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:53.199 where I look at the Knicks and I think they 89 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:55.479 haven't you know, they didn't get lucky in the playoffs. 90 00:03:55.479 --> 00:03:58.560 Now the Pistons, of course, weren't that experience. Then they 91 00:03:58.599 --> 00:04:00.800 had to go out and beat the defense champs on 92 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:03.840 the road, and they did that so well. And now 93 00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:06.840 even if they get down big, it's like they've got 94 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:09.000 guys who can get them back into it. Mcal Bridges 95 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:11.599 his offense in the last quarters has been really good. 96 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:14.039 Karl Anthony Towns has been, you know good most of 97 00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:16.120 the time. He's had a few down games, but they've 98 00:04:16.120 --> 00:04:18.600 got options, they've got weapons, and then when the game 99 00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:20.800 is there to be won, the ball goes into Bruntson's 100 00:04:20.839 --> 00:04:23.600 hands every time, and everyone on that team is confident 101 00:04:23.639 --> 00:04:25.600 he's going to make the right decision. So I think 102 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:28.560 that comparison to Isaiah Thomas is actually very very good 103 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:31.600 because they're about the same size. You know, they're tough, 104 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:35.560 they're resilience, and now Brunton has got, you know, a 105 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:38.920 catalog of big shots to sort of prove that he's 106 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:40.519 up to the moment, So. 107 00:04:40.920 --> 00:04:44.279 Away from Jalen and even Kat for a moment, because 108 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:46.480 I think it's safe to say more often than not 109 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:49.399 those two. Certainly, Jalen's going to get his, and you 110 00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:56.079 know Kat has a complex and kind of varied history 111 00:04:56.079 --> 00:04:59.079 and big games is some good, some bad, and that's 112 00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:01.199 you know, I can't have the way goes. But the 113 00:05:01.639 --> 00:05:03.959 three headed monster on the wing, you know some of 114 00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:06.439 Cal Bridges who they traded five first round picks for 115 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:08.439 Josh Art, who I kind of feel like is the 116 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:11.399 heart beats I didn't even mean to do that of 117 00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:14.920 that team. And then you know og Is, even though 118 00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:17.000 you know at times the shot can get loose, he 119 00:05:17.160 --> 00:05:20.600 was so good against the Wings for the Celtics and 120 00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:22.360 the playoffs and has been one of the best perimeter 121 00:05:22.399 --> 00:05:25.399 defenders in the NBA all year long. So what do 122 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:27.000 you make of what they need to get from those 123 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:30.240 three against the pacer team that just has a bunch 124 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:32.560 of pit bulls and they want to fight everybody. 125 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:35.439 Well, they can all defend, like you mentioned there, they're 126 00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:37.560 all sort of Tom Thibodeau guys. You know, they know 127 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:41.040 that they're expected to put in on the defensive end primarily, 128 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:43.439 and they do that, but all of them can also 129 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:46.319 hit those threes, which is really the modern game the 130 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:48.000 way it is. You need to be able to shoot, 131 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:49.759 and you need to be able to at least be 132 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:52.399 relied on to knockdown some shots. Now, some games you 133 00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:54.639 might have Josh Hart gone for twenty five or thirty 134 00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:57.759 points sport og even Bridges can get that. It's usually 135 00:05:57.759 --> 00:06:00.000 not all three of them, but it's usually they almost 136 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:02.519 rotate that around, which is again, it's great for the 137 00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:04.759 Knicks because they've got options and they know they're going 138 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:06.959 to get it out mostly of one of those guys 139 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:09.319 every game. Now, when I look at Bridges, I don't 140 00:06:09.399 --> 00:06:11.959 love his shot selection at times, and I don't love 141 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:15.120 his shooting mechanics, but he's effective. And again he did 142 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:18.399 that really well in fourth quarters against the Boston Celtics. 143 00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:20.920 So you know, I don't think the Knicks are super deep, 144 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:23.639 but they've got by. If you throw in Mitchell, Robinson 145 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:26.800 and deuci Guide, they've got seven players pretty much is 146 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:29.160 the length of the rotation, but all of them go 147 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:32.199 out there and contribute primarily on the defensive end. But 148 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:34.920 McBride is not as good as those guys, but certainly 149 00:06:34.920 --> 00:06:37.720 Mitchell Robinson is as well, so everyone who plays, you know, 150 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:39.759 you just sort of know that that's what Tom Tibodeau 151 00:06:39.839 --> 00:06:42.120 is looking for. Firstly, can you go out there and 152 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:44.920 defend more than one position? And pretty much all of 153 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:48.399 those guys can, so, you know, the Paces, this is 154 00:06:48.439 --> 00:06:50.920 a really interesting matchup because the Paces have got so 155 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:52.480 many guys as well who can go and get their 156 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:55.560 own bucket. You know, Pascal Siakham and Tyrese Haliburton. You know, 157 00:06:55.639 --> 00:06:57.959 Niece Smith's been shooting the ball really well from three, 158 00:06:58.120 --> 00:07:00.560 and then Myles Turner as well, he's going to the floor. 159 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:03.560 So everyone's kind of got a good matchup. Everyone can 160 00:07:03.639 --> 00:07:05.519 kind of hurt each other. And that's why I think 161 00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:07.720 we're really set up for a great series here because 162 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:11.000 it should be tough, it should be tight, but honestly, 163 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:13.839 we should see some really good, high quality basketball because 164 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:16.279 you're going to see defense from both ins. And I 165 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:18.319 think that's the word I keep coming back to you 166 00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:20.879 because for so long when the Knicks stunk, they just 167 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:23.800 look bad defensively, and I think now Tom Thibodeaux has 168 00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:26.360 finally got to that point where he's been able to 169 00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:30.079 implement his style and everyone's brought into it and everyone 170 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:32.240 understands what their job is and now we're seeing the 171 00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:32.839 results of that. 172 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:34.959 You know, it's interesting. One more thing on the next, 173 00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:37.120 and I do want to ask you about the pacers specifically, 174 00:07:37.160 --> 00:07:38.879 because they deserve a lot of credit for what they've 175 00:07:38.920 --> 00:07:41.600 been doing. And you know, I've known Tom Thibodeau for 176 00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:43.279 a number of years. He was an assistant in New 177 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:45.759 York for Jeff Van Gundy, and I certainly respect the man. 178 00:07:45.879 --> 00:07:48.360 But when you're up one hundred and ten to seventy 179 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:50.720 four with five minutes left in the fourth, isn't it 180 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:51.800 time to pull your players? 181 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:56.079 Well, yes, that's the one area that I think care. 182 00:07:56.439 --> 00:07:59.040 And you know I've noticed because I've been at a 183 00:07:59.079 --> 00:08:01.240 lot of the Knicks games and here in the playoffs 184 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:02.959 and in the regular season. I saw it too. When 185 00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:06.920 the Knicks are in Atlanta, Rip Brunson is often the 186 00:08:06.920 --> 00:08:08.439 guy who has to go up and say to him, 187 00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:12.839 come on, this is enough enough, because you know, it's 188 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:16.199 the one stubborn trait that Tibbs has that he's still 189 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:18.560 is very reluctant to give up. And that is to 190 00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:22.240 you know, basically acknowledge when a game is in hand, 191 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:24.920 and you know, if you go back to last season 192 00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:27.439 in the playoffs, you know, Jalen Brunson broke down, and 193 00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:29.279 if you go back to when he's in the Chicago 194 00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:33.000 Bulls day, Joki Noah still talks about it on podcasts now, 195 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:36.360 like those guys you know, got ran into the ground 196 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:38.799 by Tibbs, and so I think he has loosened up 197 00:08:38.840 --> 00:08:41.600 a little over the years, but he still could improve 198 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:44.120 on that. Because I was watching that the other night 199 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:46.440 with the closeout game, and Tad was on the bench 200 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:48.759 and they were up you know, shirt whatever it was, 201 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:51.639 and he came back in and I was like, what 202 00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:54.039 are you doing. You're just playing with fire at this point. 203 00:08:54.039 --> 00:08:56.919 But fortunately everyone survived, and you know, by closing it 204 00:08:56.919 --> 00:08:58.639 out in six they've got an extra couple of days 205 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:01.639 of rest. But yeah, it's one of those things that 206 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:04.840 I think Gibbs still needs to really work on. 207 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:08.639 So Lee, as you know, the Cleveland Cavaliers, led by 208 00:09:08.759 --> 00:09:12.360 our old buddy Donovan Mitchell, had a historic regular season 209 00:09:12.519 --> 00:09:15.960 and you know, the favorites to play in the Eastern 210 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:18.480 Conference Finals were the Calves and the Celtics. We've already 211 00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:21.919 discussed the next beating Boston and I'm sure if you're 212 00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:24.840 a Cavs fan, you can lean into we weren't fully 213 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:28.759 healthy Donovan go saw him after the second round once again, 214 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:31.759 and of course it's not all his fault. When he 215 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:34.240 is really cooking, he's as dynamic as any ball in 216 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:38.919 hand offensive generator in the league. Now, I do think 217 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:41.240 and I've always believed this because I saw it out 218 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:44.679 here when Donovan tends to put blinders on and do 219 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:47.639 his own thing, while it's really dynamic and very effective, 220 00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:50.759 I just I've never believed that's conducive to winning team 221 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:54.080 basketball because other teammates kind of get a little bit 222 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:56.440 in the mode where they're watching him do his thing 223 00:09:56.480 --> 00:09:58.840 and they're not boxing out, they're not playing defense the 224 00:09:58.919 --> 00:09:59.480 way they need to. 225 00:09:59.519 --> 00:10:01.000 I've always more of a fan of a. 226 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:05.000 Team overall approach, but Indiana deserves a lot of credit. 227 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:07.879 And I found it really interestingly after the final game 228 00:10:08.759 --> 00:10:11.759 to hear Kenny Atkinson just admit like they're a level 229 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:14.799 ahead of us, they're better than we are right now. 230 00:10:14.840 --> 00:10:18.600 And Rick Carlisle echo like it was interesting to hear 231 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:21.360 him say, we're just on fire. We're just we've got 232 00:10:21.399 --> 00:10:24.039 it clicking at the right time. So what stands out 233 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:26.000 most to you about the way the Pacers beat the 234 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:27.840 Calves and if you're a Cavs fan, what are you 235 00:10:27.879 --> 00:10:29.159 hoping for this offseason? 236 00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:31.960 Yeah, well, I think with the Pacers, they kind of 237 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:34.919 snuck up on pretty much everyone because they started off 238 00:10:34.919 --> 00:10:38.200 the season badly, and Tyrese Halliburton was bad and maybe 239 00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:40.440 there was a bit of an Olympic hangover for him. 240 00:10:40.759 --> 00:10:42.840 But I think we sort of thought we saw the 241 00:10:42.840 --> 00:10:45.159 Pacers in the conference finals last year they got swept, 242 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:47.039 and the way they started this season was like, oh, 243 00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:50.039 maybe they aren't that good. But their record closing the 244 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:53.519 season was forty two and fourteen, so they've been playing 245 00:10:53.559 --> 00:10:56.720 really well. But because the Celtics and the Caves and 246 00:10:56.759 --> 00:10:58.919 the Knicks were so far ahead of them, I think 247 00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:01.639 everyone just thought we go on Boston and Cleveland in 248 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:04.519 the Eastern Conference finals here and didn't really give anyone 249 00:11:04.519 --> 00:11:07.080 else much of a chance. But you're right. I mean, 250 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:09.960 Rick Carlyle, you know, he's a pretty good coach, and 251 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:12.600 you know, he's a pretty consistent coach. He might not be, 252 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:16.080 you know, the most charismatic coach out there, but he 253 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:18.320 certainly gets guys to play to a high level. And 254 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:20.399 that's what I noticed about the Pacers is once tyri 255 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:22.120 Is Haliburton got to go, and because he wasn't an 256 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:24.720 All Star this season, but he certainly picked his game 257 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:26.919 up in the second half of the season. But also 258 00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:29.919 guys like Nemhard and Nie Smith, as I mentioned earlier, 259 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:32.679 really really important role players. You know, they can hit 260 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:35.759 those threes, you know, they play hard defense, they don't 261 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:38.360 need the ball in their hands all that much. And 262 00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:40.960 then Pascal Siakam, who was an All Star this season, 263 00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:44.440 he was also fantastic in the second part. So Indiana 264 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:47.080 had one of those seasons that was pretty much idea 265 00:11:47.159 --> 00:11:50.240 where people were overlooking you and dismissing him, and then 266 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:52.639 they come into the playoffs and they cruise along, you know, 267 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:55.840 and they beat the Bucks, who you know, Lillard obviously 268 00:11:55.919 --> 00:11:58.159 was banged up somewhat there, but even if he wasn't, 269 00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:01.600 I think the Pacers still win that series. And then yeah, 270 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:04.159 the you know, it was called an upset because they 271 00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:05.919 took down the Cleveland Cattle is, but they beat the 272 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:07.759 Cash three to one in the regular season, so it's 273 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:10.559 probably not that much of an upset really. It was 274 00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:13.759 more just that the Pacers matched up well. There was 275 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:16.000 some injury concerns of course there with the Cads, but 276 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:18.360 I think that was really only for one game when MOBILEI, 277 00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:21.120 Hunter and Garland were out glad Mister first game though 278 00:12:21.159 --> 00:12:24.639 as well, But ultimately we saw, yeah, you know, Donovan 279 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:26.840 is a great playoff performer. You know, he's had some 280 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:29.639 huge moments, but he hasn't been able to turn those 281 00:12:29.720 --> 00:12:32.440 into playoff success. He's never gone past the second round, 282 00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:35.440 so there is something that's not quite working there that 283 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:37.960 even if Donovan goes for forty I think he finished 284 00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:41.159 averaging forty one in that series, but what good is 285 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:43.639 that if you're losing five games, you know. So the 286 00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:48.200 Cabs a really disappointing end to a very promising season 287 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:51.279 and where they go in the off season from here now, 288 00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:53.759 I don't think they make too many changes because I 289 00:12:53.799 --> 00:12:56.399 think overall they probably just look back at what they 290 00:12:56.399 --> 00:12:58.720 did wrong and they think, Okay, you know, we need 291 00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:01.320 to sort of make some improved from within, because overall, 292 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:03.840 I think they've got a good roster. Evan Mobley Defensive 293 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:06.320 Player of the Year. Donovan, we've already talked about him, 294 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:08.600 and Darius was an All Star this year. Jared Allen 295 00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:11.240 has been an All Star, you know, they're well balanced, 296 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:14.279 they've got three point shooting. They picked up DeAndre Hunter 297 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:18.200 for their six man at the trade deadline here, so 298 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:20.600 that you know they've got all the pieces. Maybe it 299 00:13:20.679 --> 00:13:22.759 was just one of those seasons where you know, they 300 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:25.559 were caught looking ahead a little bit and thought that 301 00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:27.480 they sort of leave their own height where it was like, hey, 302 00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:29.919 we're going straight back to the conference finals the year 303 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:33.080 and you know, didn't really give the Paces the respect 304 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:36.120 they deserve. Kenny Atkinson remember, Coach of the Year, well 305 00:13:36.200 --> 00:13:39.799 deserving as well. I mean he I thought I saw, 306 00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:42.039 you know, watching the Cavs this season, they were a 307 00:13:42.039 --> 00:13:44.879 lot like those Brooklyn Nets teams that Kenny Atkinson had, Remember, 308 00:13:44.919 --> 00:13:47.360 they were fun to watch. They really seemed to be 309 00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:49.840 all on the same page and cheering each other on. 310 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:53.200 And it felt like, you know, the Cavs were on 311 00:13:53.240 --> 00:13:56.159 the path here to the conference finals before before sort 312 00:13:56.200 --> 00:13:58.279 of you know that they couldn't quite get it done 313 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:02.360 there in the conference. Semi so very interesting season. Again, 314 00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:04.519 I don't think they'll decide to blow it up or 315 00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:06.600 anything like that. I think they'll just try to take 316 00:14:06.679 --> 00:14:09.279 care of business a little bit better next season, because 317 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:12.360 overall a lot of their guys are under contract. I 318 00:14:12.519 --> 00:14:15.399 think they're a better team than they performed in the playoffs, 319 00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:17.919 and maybe sometimes a loss like this can actually help 320 00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:21.240 you in the future, so we'll find out. But you know, 321 00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:25.039 Indiana again, they the way they ended the season was 322 00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:28.720 just so impressive that they find themselves in this position. 323 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:31.039 And I think, you know, a lot of people around 324 00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:33.159 the league may see this a surprise, but I don't 325 00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:35.840 think the Indiana Pacers themselves are all that surprise that 326 00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:37.159 they're in this position. 327 00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:40.519 Moving out this way, Lee, I was surprised to learn 328 00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:42.360 this morning when I was doing little reading a prep 329 00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:44.639 for the show, that the two best records in pro 330 00:14:44.759 --> 00:14:49.080 basketball since March first belonged to Oklahoma City, who has 331 00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:51.879 the best record, and then the Minnesota Timberwolves, who have 332 00:14:51.919 --> 00:14:54.960 the second best record. Let's start with the Minnesota side 333 00:14:54.960 --> 00:14:57.120 of things, and this is a team that's been together 334 00:14:57.240 --> 00:14:58.879 now for a few years, and they had a nice 335 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:02.360 little playoff run last year. Of course, you need good 336 00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:05.639 fortune in the NBA playoffs, and you always hate injuries. 337 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:07.759 It was a bumber to see Tatum go down, and 338 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:11.320 nobody wants to watch Golden's stay without watching Stephen Curry. 339 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:13.759 But Minnesota won't apologize. What do you make of their 340 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:16.440 route to the Western Conference Finals? What stands out? 341 00:15:17.399 --> 00:15:19.639 Yeah, honestly a little bit like the Paces in that 342 00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:21.919 when they made that trade at the start of the 343 00:15:21.919 --> 00:15:24.399 season for Towns, you know, trading him away. I thought 344 00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:26.679 that was a bad move. I thought Towns has been there, 345 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:29.600 they're finally having some success, and then they blow it up. 346 00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:33.080 I think for a weaker move in bringing Devincenzo and 347 00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:37.159 Julius Randall. But after that sluggish start, and remember they 348 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:38.879 had to basically win on the last day of the 349 00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:41.320 season just to avoid the play in, they've really gotten 350 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:44.039 them together and been super impressive. And I think Chris 351 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:46.600 Finch deserves a lot of credit because he's got them 352 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:49.600 playing at this high level where they were really convincing 353 00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:52.279 against the Warriors. Of course you mentioned no Steph Curry, 354 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:54.960 but even still they lost that first came remember at 355 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:58.200 home when Steph left early on, so there was more 356 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:01.440 that pressure of expectation like, oh, you can't lose possibly 357 00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:03.720 now to the Warriors without Steph. And they went out 358 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:06.519 and won the next four games. And Anthony Edwards, I mean, 359 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:09.840 he's ready, he's ready for the hype. He loves being 360 00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:12.639 the center of attention, and he's gone out there and delivered. 361 00:16:12.679 --> 00:16:16.159 And so you know, last season against the Mavericks, I 362 00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:19.279 saw Anthony Edwards on a podcast somewhere basically just sort 363 00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:21.799 of shaking his head at what Luca was able to do. 364 00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:25.480 But you could sort of see that fight in the 365 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:27.639 eyes of Edwards, in the way that he spoke was 366 00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:30.919 like he wasn't feeling sorry for himself. Instead he realized 367 00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:33.080 what it took to get to the next level. And 368 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:35.440 so now he's back here and I think last season, 369 00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:39.039 of course, with Team USA in Paris, he showed, you know, 370 00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:41.720 he learned from those guys like Kevin Durant and like 371 00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:45.240 Steph and Lebron. Being around those guys really helped him 372 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:47.279 understand how important it is to take care of your 373 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:49.840 body and to be ready and to embrace those moments 374 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:53.000 when they come. So, you know, really good stuff here 375 00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:54.960 from the Timberwolves. I mean, you guys of course know 376 00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:57.600 Rudy very well there in Utah as well. I mean, 377 00:16:57.879 --> 00:17:01.039 he has been excellent at time. You know, he sort 378 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:03.120 of fluctuates a little bit, but when he's good, he's 379 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:06.960 very very good. And you know, Rudy's he's been in 380 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:09.799 the playoffs, like, he's an experienced veteran and he plays 381 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:11.640 such a role and he's going to have a huge 382 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:14.279 role in this series now against the Thunder because they 383 00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:17.880 have the big guys Chet, Holmgren and Hartenstein. So he's 384 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:19.119 going to have his work cut out for him. But 385 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:22.759 as we saw again against the Warriors, if you are 386 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:26.000 able to really utilize Rudy on the offensive end, I 387 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:28.359 think he grows even more on the defensive end and 388 00:17:28.359 --> 00:17:31.880 there'll be opportunities there for him. And you know, the 389 00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:34.400 Timberwolves are ready. I think they're in a really good spot. 390 00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:36.119 It's going to be a great series. I mean, obviously 391 00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:38.440 the Thunder have the best records, so they start at 392 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:40.240 home and they were great, but they closed out their 393 00:17:40.279 --> 00:17:44.200 series only what two days ago? So does that favor 394 00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:47.400 you know, is rhythm more important than rest? Will find 395 00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:50.799 out because usually that's what the result of game one is. 396 00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:53.279 If the Thunder winners like see, you better to be 397 00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:55.559 a rhythm. If the Wolves winners like see an extra 398 00:17:55.599 --> 00:17:59.200 couple of days, rest always up. So there's no scientific 399 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:01.759 proof of either aend, but it should be a fascinating 400 00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:02.880 game one either way. 401 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.960