WEBVTT 1 00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:30.800 Hey everybody, It's Tuesday, October first, twenty twenty four. Welcome 2 00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:34.119 to the Giant BombCast, Episode eight one hundred and sixty 3 00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:38.920 powered by NZXT. I'm your host, jan Oh Shoah. Welcome 4 00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:42.479 everybody to Infrastructure Week. We have the man that is 5 00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:46.159 building all the bridges. He's bridging the gap from us 6 00:00:46.359 --> 00:00:49.399 to you to the news co Captain of. 7 00:00:49.320 --> 00:00:52.679 The Ship Jeff Grubb. I'm building bridges between you and me, 8 00:00:52.759 --> 00:00:54.359 jam between everybody, happy to be here. 9 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:57.759 We got the master of paths. He's building roads. He's 10 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:01.600 learning about asphalt. He's painting the lines on the floor 11 00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:06.959 as we speak. Dan reichert are woodpeckers infrastructure because they 12 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:08.840 are in my walls right now and I just had 13 00:01:08.840 --> 00:01:13.879 to bang on my wall right anti infrastructure if we think, yeah, 14 00:01:13.879 --> 00:01:18.400 they're just the infrastructure destroyed. Yes, yes, okay. We got 15 00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:21.719 the bad boy of games media. He's knocking down all 16 00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:24.879 of your Jenga towers as you play politely with your 17 00:01:24.879 --> 00:01:26.799 friends from games Beat. 18 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:27.879 Mike Manatti. 19 00:01:28.599 --> 00:01:31.239 I literally bought my tickets for a w as we 20 00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:32.840 were starting this. They have a heck of a car 21 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:35.319 Pasberg Tomorrow. I rubbed somebody into it. 22 00:01:35.560 --> 00:01:38.200 Wait ticket he said, tickets play no, no, no no. 23 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:39.760 I rubbed someone into it, someone into it. 24 00:01:39.799 --> 00:01:43.920 I'm not going by. 25 00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:45.120 People get really mad if I if I say, like 26 00:01:45.159 --> 00:01:46.959 some kind of freaks a joke, you can go things 27 00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:47.400 by yourself. 28 00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:49.239 I don't want to go to a wrestling show by myself. 29 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:50.359 I don't know why don't you want to go to 30 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:51.280 a wrestling show byers? 31 00:01:51.359 --> 00:01:53.120 Nothing wrong with it yourself? 32 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:55.079 I know, I want to become like a social paria. 33 00:01:55.159 --> 00:01:56.920 I just think doesn't sound as much fun to me. 34 00:01:57.000 --> 00:01:57.920 I just want to go with someone. 35 00:01:58.000 --> 00:01:58.760 What are you becoming? 36 00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:00.760 I like going with a group, but like, there's nothing 37 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:03.159 wrong with going by yourself. You just want to see Danielsonokata? 38 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:05.439 Yeah, I know, but I want to see dan Seltata 39 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:08.080 with someone. Yell all your jokes loud enough so Danielson 40 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:08.560 will hear you. 41 00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:12.360 Yeah, he'll really appreciate it. Yeah, bring a bunch of signs, Mike, 42 00:02:13.639 --> 00:02:14.159 He'll be fine. 43 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:15.479 Do you think Danielson would like me? 44 00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:22.319 He would be fascinated at least our special guest, mister 45 00:02:22.520 --> 00:02:26.960 infrastructure himself, Chasten try or everybody. 46 00:02:27.159 --> 00:02:30.280 Hello, when you're talking about building bridges, let me let 47 00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:33.439 me explain you how my mind works for you. For 48 00:02:33.479 --> 00:02:35.599 a second, I thought, I thought about Death Stranding, and 49 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:38.280 then I thought, oh, he's going to introduce Sam sam 50 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:40.800 Porter Bridges. But for some reason, I couldn't remember the 51 00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:42.439 name of the hero of Death Stranding, and so my 52 00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:46.840 mind went to Sam Bankman Freed, and I realized, Oh God, 53 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:49.560 in this thought process, I realized that Sam Bankman Freed 54 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:54.319 would be the perfect name for a Deo Kajima character. Yeah, 55 00:02:54.479 --> 00:03:01.000 it does kind of feel right, but yeah, would has 56 00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:04.280 gotten to jail big Man is now in jail with Diddy? 57 00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:04.960 Must have. 58 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:07.520 You? 59 00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:08.840 Oh man, what if? 60 00:03:09.240 --> 00:03:11.000 What a different world it would have been if Hedeo 61 00:03:11.080 --> 00:03:13.520 kojimad teamed up and like putting Diddy in a game. 62 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:17.479 I just don't want to very different. 63 00:03:18.199 --> 00:03:19.919 Yeah, he hasn't done a lot of musicians. 64 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:23.599 It's always like filmmakers and and uh twenty five year 65 00:03:23.639 --> 00:03:25.319 old models. 66 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:25.719 Music. 67 00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:29.039 Yeah, well he puts music in his games. He had 68 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:30.080 a lot of music industry. 69 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:34.479 No, it's not. It's like health And I'm. 70 00:03:34.319 --> 00:03:36.319 Only thinking you have the credit so from Elgar Solid 71 00:03:36.319 --> 00:03:37.680 four that's my only thing. 72 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:42.520 Oh, there's that. Here's to you the sixties songs by songs. 73 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:44.360 Yeah, yeah, that's fine. 74 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:47.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's old Minati. Were you a death 75 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:51.000 stranding guy? Mm? Okay cool? Uh? 76 00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:54.120 Jason, sir, thank you for joining us on the show today. 77 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:57.879 Thank you for devoting uh at least maybe two to 78 00:03:57.960 --> 00:04:01.639 three hours spending with us. I also apologize nothing else 79 00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:03.319 to do. Fantastic, fantastic. 80 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:05.879 So we got you on the show because you got 81 00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:07.520 something coming out I do. 82 00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:08.639 Can you see it? 83 00:04:08.759 --> 00:04:14.800 Like right there? Wow? Right there? 84 00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:18.199 Play nice of the Rise Fallen Future A Blizzard Entertainment 85 00:04:18.279 --> 00:04:21.120 is my new bucket comes out on October eighth, and 86 00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:24.759 I'm very very excited about it. I hope everybody reads it. 87 00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:27.800 First question, ever, I like that cover. Did you have 88 00:04:27.879 --> 00:04:29.680 to did you try to fight to get the Oxford 89 00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:32.160 comma in the subtitle? Or is it just like that's 90 00:04:32.399 --> 00:04:33.319 not cool anymore? 91 00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:37.439 Guarantee no, I put Oxford commas in every In fact, 92 00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:40.720 Bloomberg has a no Oxford Comma policy, which has driven 93 00:04:40.759 --> 00:04:43.639 me to quit like four times, but Mike Bloomberg every time, 94 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:45.279 Mike Bloomer calls me up, but he's like, Jason, you 95 00:04:45.279 --> 00:04:46.120 can't quit. I can't. 96 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:49.800 I can't. I get this issue with the Oxford comma. 97 00:04:49.839 --> 00:04:51.120 But please no, I'm. 98 00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:54.680 A big fan of Oxford Commas and clarity in writing 99 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:57.360 in general, there's no reason, not like why would you not. 100 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:00.000 I think it's clarification things beat. 101 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:02.199 Like a while ago there was like we're doing We're 102 00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:04.519 not doing Oxford Commas anymore. As I had to, I 103 00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:07.560 kind of just slowly like I'm gonna put them back 104 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:07.839 in there. 105 00:05:07.879 --> 00:05:10.120 See if so far. 106 00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:13.759 Grab. 107 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:15.519 I want to say, I feel like I've been able 108 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:18.000 to relate to you heavily the past few days because 109 00:05:19.319 --> 00:05:23.399 usually when people aggregate my work, it's written and so 110 00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:25.480 all of the context is there. But recently I've been 111 00:05:25.480 --> 00:05:27.439 going on all these podcasts is part of the book tour, 112 00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:30.199 and I've experienced the Jeff Grub effect where everybody like 113 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:33.600 takes parts of my quotes and interprets whatever they want 114 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:37.720 out of them, and it causes all sorts of havoc and. 115 00:05:37.399 --> 00:05:41.120 Clarifying doesn't ever work either. It doesn't it never helps 116 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:43.439 at least. Yeah, it's a real, real pain. I mean 117 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:45.800 you kind of like you're in those place where it's 118 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:47.319 like you're promoting the book. You want to like talk 119 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:49.439 about stuff, get people excited, but like the story of 120 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:52.560 the book is this interesting story about these people and 121 00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:54.279 what they actually went through. It's kind of a telling 122 00:05:54.519 --> 00:05:57.759 of a history, like a memoir on behalf of a studio, right, 123 00:05:57.879 --> 00:06:00.199 Like you're not trying to go out there and a 124 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:02.120 bunch of scoops that's sort of just been a byproduct 125 00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:03.040 of this process. 126 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:05.920 It's interesting, Okay. So I set out to write this 127 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:08.360 book to be the kind of a chronicle of Blizzard's 128 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:11.399 history that kind of tells a specific story about Blizzard 129 00:06:11.399 --> 00:06:13.519 over the last thirty three years. And I'll get into 130 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:16.600 what that is in a second. But when I do 131 00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:19.240 a book, to me, there's no point in doing it. 132 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:20.680 There's no point in me spending three years of my 133 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:23.319 life on something like this unless it's going to bring 134 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:26.160 information into the world, reveal information that has not been 135 00:06:26.199 --> 00:06:29.160 made public before. And so my books are always based 136 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:31.120 on like firsthand interviews, and this one is based on 137 00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:33.920 interviews with some three hundred and fifty some ridiculous number 138 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:36.959 of people, and so a lot of the stuff in 139 00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:39.160 the book has never been reported before, whether it's kind 140 00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:44.240 of like human perspectives on pr disasters like Diablo Mortal, 141 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:47.639 on Blitzchung, or like just tidbits from Blizzard's history that 142 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:50.920 nobody knows about. Like the cancelation of a second expansion 143 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:53.800 for Diablo three that never happened, or like the real 144 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:57.800 story behind the making of Hearthstone, or how StarCraft one 145 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:01.240 was like for a brief hot second and almost a 146 00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:04.079 Star Wars license game. Potentially maybe I don't know. You 147 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:06.920 have to read the book to find out. But the 148 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:09.120 goal is to tell the story. But all of that 149 00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:11.079 stuff comes out in the making of it. And that 150 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:14.360 stuff is what different websites and podcasts have been kind 151 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:16.879 of wanting to talk about and seizoning on. And I'm 152 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:18.959 happy to talk about that. I don't mind the aggregation. 153 00:07:19.079 --> 00:07:22.399 It's just funny to see like the context stripped out 154 00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:23.480 of some of these quotes. 155 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:26.240 Yeah, it's the game of telephone every time, and it's 156 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:28.879 just it gets to eventually an audience that was never 157 00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:29.879 listening in the first place. 158 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:33.600 And yeah, and just judges. Yeah, And what's funny is that, 159 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:36.480 like what always happens with this is one outlet will 160 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:38.560 listen to the podcast and transcribe it, and then every 161 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:40.920 other outlet will just take that quote use that they 162 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:43.920 won't actually even listen in the original source. And I 163 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:47.079 don't like blame the people writing for these sites because 164 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:50.000 they're doing it for pennies on the dollar and like overworked, 165 00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:52.519 and I feel bad for everybody involved in the system. 166 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:54.680 But it is a heavily broken system. 167 00:07:56.800 --> 00:07:59.360 So I guess I haven't read the book yet. I 168 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:01.879 can't wait to do so. But what is it the 169 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:04.560 big thing that you hope people kind of take away? Like, 170 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:07.959 did you learn something about the overall narrative of what 171 00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:11.000 happened with the with the studio and the publisher that 172 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:13.040 you hope people take away, or is it the several 173 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:14.879 like little lessons and things like that. 174 00:08:15.240 --> 00:08:17.560 Yeah, it's a whole story. I'll get into in a second. 175 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:20.959 I will say that Dan's wife sent me a very 176 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:22.959 lovely text. She was one of the earliest people to 177 00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:26.000 read it and really enjoyed it. I appreciated that. Shout 178 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:29.639 out to Bianca. Yeah, so it is. It's really it's 179 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:31.800 the story of Blizzard over thirty three years. So there's 180 00:08:31.839 --> 00:08:34.200 a lot in there, everything from like the development of 181 00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:36.960 all these mega franchises and how they became these billion 182 00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:40.919 dollar franchises, like how Warcraft exploded, how World of Warcraft 183 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:44.639 really like became a cultural phenomenon, how StarCraft became a 184 00:08:44.759 --> 00:08:46.919 national sport in Korea, it follows a lot of these 185 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:50.720 kind of overarching big stories. One kind of crux of 186 00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:52.879 the book that you were hinting at there is the 187 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:56.480 battle between Blizzard and its parent company, Activision Blizzard, which 188 00:08:56.519 --> 00:09:00.120 is a really fascinating one because that is that that 189 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:02.600 story is really what made me kind of decide to 190 00:09:02.600 --> 00:09:04.440 do the book in the first place. It was like, 191 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:08.200 I started working on this thing in like March of 192 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:10.759 twenty twenty one, and it was basically the pitch that 193 00:09:10.840 --> 00:09:12.759 I made to my editor and my agent was like, Hey, 194 00:09:12.799 --> 00:09:14.600 I want to do the story that is like a 195 00:09:14.600 --> 00:09:17.600 hostile corporate takeover in a lot of ways, because Activision 196 00:09:17.679 --> 00:09:21.279 came in started playing a bigger role in operations at Blizzard, 197 00:09:21.679 --> 00:09:24.360 drove out the CEO and co founder Mike Moreheim and 198 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:28.080 a bunch of other veteran Blizzard people, and it led 199 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.960 to some problems and there's a lot of nuance there. 200 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:34.679 There's a lot of comp complexity behind that relationship and 201 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:37.879 reasons why Activision felt the need to come in. But 202 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:40.840 it's a really interesting story, and so yeah, a large 203 00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:43.440 chunk of the book kind of examines that dynamic and 204 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:47.200 how it happened, why it happened. The clash between Bobby 205 00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:51.519 Kotek and Blizzard people. I tried to explore bobbi Kotek's 206 00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:54.919 kind of business philosophies and perspectives and why he does 207 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:57.120 the things he does. It's really interesting. 208 00:09:57.240 --> 00:10:01.200 I think, Yeah, it's kind of thing where it is. 209 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:03.080 It definitely touches on something I've been thinking of a 210 00:10:03.080 --> 00:10:06.240 lot about recently, which is I don't know how to 211 00:10:06.279 --> 00:10:08.960 feel about what the corporations that have kind of come 212 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:13.399 into these gaming spaces and these gaming companies and and 213 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:15.559 kind of took things over, Like what had they brought 214 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:18.440 to the table, And I don't know, did you do 215 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:20.720 you do you on the other side of writing this book? 216 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:23.519 Do you feel like you have an idea of what 217 00:10:23.559 --> 00:10:26.080 they bring or is it just them sort of exploiting 218 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:29.039 a resource to make the most money possible possible. 219 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:33.039 So, okay, you have these two companies in Activision. For 220 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:35.879 simplicity's sake, let's just call it Activision, even though for 221 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:39.159 the corporate part it was Activision Blizzard over Blizzard, which 222 00:10:39.159 --> 00:10:42.000 is very confusing. So let's just say Activision versus Lizards. 223 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:43.399 So on one hand, you have Blizzard, which is a 224 00:10:43.399 --> 00:10:46.600 company that was started by video game enthusiasts who loved 225 00:10:46.600 --> 00:10:48.879 games wanted to play games. For a long time, they 226 00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:53.240 had had a rule that they would only hire gamers. 227 00:10:53.279 --> 00:10:56.120 They would only hire hardcore gamers, which had it's good 228 00:10:56.159 --> 00:10:57.879 and bad. Like, on one hand, all right, that makes 229 00:10:57.879 --> 00:11:00.279 it so everyone's familiar with the products, can like test out, 230 00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:02.240 can really get it. On the other hand, it kind 231 00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:04.200 of cuts you out of a lot of demographics if 232 00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:06.519 you're only hiring people who play your own games. And 233 00:11:06.679 --> 00:11:08.720 the book gets into that as well. And so that's 234 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:11.279 the philosophy a Blizzard from the beginning. It served them well. 235 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:13.879 It led them to make a lot of awesome, beloved hits. 236 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:19.559 And then by the time Activision came in, they still 237 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:22.480 kind of tried to embody that philosophy, but Activision came 238 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:25.240 in with a very different sort of way of doing business, 239 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:28.039 which is, as Bobby Kodik describes it, finding a hit 240 00:11:28.039 --> 00:11:32.279 franchise and then quote nquote exploiting that franchise, which essentially 241 00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:35.159 means releasing a new game every year. 242 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:39.320 Tony Hawk Guitar Hero Scott Landers. 243 00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:43.159 The only franchise that this actually worked for without dying 244 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:47.600 is Call of Duty, And so that philosophy worked for him. 245 00:11:47.639 --> 00:11:50.519 And and Bobby is kind of like, instead of hiring 246 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:53.559 gamers and game developers in his executive circle to run things, 247 00:11:53.639 --> 00:11:56.240 he would hire consumer product goods people, people from like 248 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:59.039 Procter and Gamble and like Nessley who knew how to 249 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:03.320 ship and al soap and shampoo and diapers. 250 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:05.960 And yeah, well that's the thing. 251 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:10.080 I mean, I think I won't say who, but at 252 00:12:10.120 --> 00:12:11.799 least two of the five of us are wearing diapers 253 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:17.080 right now, so I don't get it. Yeah, And it's like, 254 00:12:17.720 --> 00:12:20.960 it's this philosophy of like, these are commodities that must 255 00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:24.279 be shipped every single year without missing a deadline, like 256 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:28.320 unpredictable schedules versus this kind of we are creative game 257 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:30.559 developers who must innovate and iterate and take all the 258 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:32.320 time we need, like when it's ready. Was always the 259 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:35.679 Blizzard philosophy. And the two are like oil and water 260 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:39.000 when they meet and start clashing. And it's interesting, I 261 00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:41.159 think one of the takeaways that I had from writing 262 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:43.000 the book. I'm very curious to see what other people think, 263 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:45.679 but at least one of my takeaways was like, uh, 264 00:12:45.960 --> 00:12:48.600 you have the spectrum of like the we are the 265 00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:50.799 ultimate artists. On one side, and we are the ultimate 266 00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:53.200 business people on the other side, and they couldn't find 267 00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:54.720 a way to meet in the middle, so it just 268 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:59.240 became an eruption. It just kind of everybody like clashed 269 00:12:59.240 --> 00:13:02.360 instead of finding common ground. And yeah, I mean there 270 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:03.919 are a lot of reasons for that, and I think 271 00:13:04.039 --> 00:13:05.960 people who read the book will come away with their 272 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:08.120 own ideas of who is to blame for what. But 273 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:11.639 it's definitely not as simple as like good guy Blizzard 274 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:15.519 versus bad guy Actavision, And I think there's a lot 275 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:16.799 of nuance and complexity there. 276 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:19.480 Yeah, I was covering Blizzard a lot, kind of like 277 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:22.399 right after Overwatch came out, in that period where it 278 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:25.080 was that and Hearthstone just really popping off. I think 279 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:27.279 most of my time gaming was spent on you know, 280 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:28.639 battle net like all that. 281 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:30.840 You didn't like, have you steam that back then? I 282 00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:33.159 remember talking to you were like, I'm on Battlenet all 283 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:33.519 the time. 284 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:35.440 Yeah, because there's just so many gains playing there. 285 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:37.720 It's funny because like you know, there was it seemed 286 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:40.000 like this weird period of incredible highs, like wow, these 287 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:42.879 games are really popping off, and then just these incredible 288 00:13:42.919 --> 00:13:45.759 loads with things falling off or you know, the Diablo 289 00:13:45.799 --> 00:13:50.519 Immortal situation and then the actual controversies. I can't imagine 290 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:52.960 the sort of whiplash effect that was happening for the 291 00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:56.320 kind of you know, rink and file staff inside of 292 00:13:56.360 --> 00:14:00.320 Blizzard at that time, right, And you know, I'm you 293 00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:03.080 talked to tons of people. I just wondering what the 294 00:14:03.159 --> 00:14:06.840 sense was kind of having to work through these ridiculous 295 00:14:06.879 --> 00:14:08.360 periods of highs and lows. 296 00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:10.759 Yeah, it's kind of I mean it's almost like that 297 00:14:10.919 --> 00:14:13.159 now in some ways too, where like every time morale 298 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:15.679 kind of stabilizes and people are feeling good about like 299 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:18.120 the war within launch or something, Microsoft comes in and 300 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:21.000 lays people off or like does something stupid and everybody 301 00:14:21.159 --> 00:14:22.240 is just bummed out. 302 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:22.759 Yeah. 303 00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:24.159 I think it was really rough for a lot of 304 00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:26.559 people the last few years being a Blizzard, and I 305 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:29.120 think people kind of tried to make the best of it, 306 00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:32.039 stuck together. And I mean, I think working at Blizzard 307 00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:34.000 you still get to like make games all day, you 308 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:35.799 still meet a lot of people who you're close friends with. 309 00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:37.639 I think for a lot of people it's still pretty great, 310 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:40.639 and it's always been pretty great. I think it's worth 311 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:42.919 getting into the cultural stuff too, right, because that was 312 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:46.240 the biggest controversy surrounding Blizzard is that in twenty twenty one, 313 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:49.600 the summer of twenty twenty one, incidentally, like four months 314 00:14:49.639 --> 00:14:51.840 after I started working on this book. I was like, Wow, 315 00:14:51.879 --> 00:14:55.000 this is a twist. This is definitely changing the course 316 00:14:55.039 --> 00:15:00.240 of this book. California, the California government sued Activision, the 317 00:15:00.279 --> 00:15:03.039 parent company, for sexual misconduct and harassment and made all 318 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:07.279 sorts of allegations, and the book actually gets into how 319 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:10.480 the lawsuit is actually pretty sloppy and misleading in a 320 00:15:10.519 --> 00:15:12.200 lot of ways. And the book calls out a few 321 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:14.960 specific cases such as the Cosby suite, which. 322 00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:17.039 I can I was going to ask about, like I 323 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:19.919 still don't know, like what was the sort of how 324 00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:22.240 do people come down on the Cosby sweep? Because I'm like, 325 00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:24.320 it seemed like maybe that wasn't as real as we thought. 326 00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:26.440 It was not at all. I'll get into that in 327 00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:28.480 a second, But just to answer your question, Mike, I 328 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:31.720 think that like throughout that it was really miserable to 329 00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:34.879 work there because even if you personally hadn't experienced the 330 00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:37.639 kind of discrimination or harassment that like other people had, 331 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:40.360 just knowing that it had happened was like so painful 332 00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:43.360 for people, And I think what ultimately happened was even 333 00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:45.799 though the lawsuit had a lot of inaccuracies and was 334 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:47.759 some of the stuff was old, some of it was wrong, 335 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:51.360 it was still it still captured a broader truth for 336 00:15:51.399 --> 00:15:53.120 a lot of people, and a lot of people were like, look, 337 00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:56.960 even if I wasn't like sexually assaulted while working up Blizzard, 338 00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:00.600 I still face discrimination. I still face a grost comment 339 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:02.679 here or there. And the book really dives into the 340 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:04.960 culture that made that happen. It dives into a lot 341 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:07.960 of like what made Blizzard unique in both good and 342 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:10.399 bad ways. The best way I can describe it is, 343 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:12.679 I got this great I had this fantastic conversation with 344 00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:16.200 the woman who worked there, and she spoke to me anonymously, 345 00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:19.879 but she told me that like working at Blizzard, working 346 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:23.120 at most companies, it's like every day is like on 347 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:24.600 a scale from one to ten. Every day is like 348 00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:25.919 a five out of ten, a six out of ten. 349 00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:28.120 It's like a normal day. At Blizzard, you have so 350 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:29.879 many days that are ten out of ten, and then 351 00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:31.480 you have some days that are zero out of ten, 352 00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:34.360 and it's just an exercise in extremes and I think 353 00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:36.600 that really defined the experience for a lot of people 354 00:16:36.759 --> 00:16:39.480 is just this kind of really extreme, just kind of 355 00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:42.480 contradictory feelings all the time. But you're still I mean, 356 00:16:42.519 --> 00:16:44.360 you're working on Blizzard games. You're working on games and 357 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:46.519 millions of people love. There are a lot of highs 358 00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:50.600 to go with that. Yeah, I can tell the whole 359 00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:53.480 Cosby sweet story if you guys are interested. 360 00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:56.039 I'm pretty damage. Yeah, and I definitely want to kind 361 00:16:56.039 --> 00:16:56.919 of just get the gist of it. 362 00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:59.600 Yeah, yeah, because it made a lot of headlines and 363 00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:04.519 it became kind of like this shorthand for like blizzards problems. 364 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:07.119 It's like, oh my god, they had a suite dedicated 365 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:08.079 to Bill Cosby. 366 00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:08.759 Holy crap. 367 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:10.960 So here's the actual story of what happened. So the 368 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:14.000 lawsuit mentions the Cosby suite. They actually call it the 369 00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:17.119 Crosby Suite, which I think shows how sloppy the whole 370 00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:20.200 lawsuit was. And they say that like this guy Alex 371 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:22.559 Eferciabi had the suite at BlizzCon that was dedicated that 372 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:25.480 was named after an alleged sex pest. And then this 373 00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:29.799 was elaborated upon by an article on Kataku that had 374 00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:33.079 this big picture of like like eight different Blizzard employees 375 00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:35.279 kind of smiling and laughing in front of this free 376 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:37.839 picture of Bill Cosby. It had a bunch of other 377 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:39.640 stuff that I give into in the book, like involving 378 00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:42.319 textbostages and stuff. I'll skip over those details, but the 379 00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:45.759 gist of it was this picture that looked absolutely horrifying 380 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:47.799 of like top Blizzard employees. Some of these were like 381 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:50.799 high level employees just posing in front of Bill Cosby. 382 00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:53.519 It's like horrendous, especially in the wake of this lawsuit, 383 00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:55.799 Like what do you make of that? You think it's horrible. 384 00:17:56.640 --> 00:18:01.200 But what the article didn't mention is that even that 385 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:05.440 picture was actually taken in twenty thirteen, and nobody knew 386 00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:09.039 about the Bill Cosby allegations until a year later, twenty fourteen, 387 00:18:09.079 --> 00:18:12.480 when Hannibal Buris, the comedian, came out and mentioned that 388 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:15.640 Bill Cosby was an alleged rapist in a routine and 389 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:18.119 that just was the first domino in this whole cascading 390 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:22.759 like allegations resurfacing, new allegations coming up, and essentially the 391 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:27.559 entire consciousness cultural understanding of Bill Cosby changing within a 392 00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:30.440 week or two. That happened a year after this picture 393 00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:32.279 was taken. And then when you think about that, you 394 00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:34.160 kind of think about it a little more, and it's like, 395 00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:37.680 why would people be smiling and posing in front of 396 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:40.279 a picture of Bill Cosby, even if they did horrible things? 397 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:43.119 Does that really track? And then the pictures were found 398 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:45.920 on Facebook? Would people really be putting a picture like 399 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:48.799 that on Facebook? Like maybe if they were like doing 400 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:51.799 some dark ironything, but like, something about this doesn't feel right, 401 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:54.440 And then you realize nobody actually knew about it. And 402 00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:57.279 then I dug further and it turns out that this 403 00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:01.000 was the suite itself was like a run joke named 404 00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:04.440 after the hotel carpet at some convention a few years 405 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:08.440 earlier that looked like a Bill cos sweater, right, So yeah, 406 00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:11.960 and so they became it became this running joke that 407 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:16.160 turned out to be this horrible timing thing where it 408 00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:20.839 was just this horribly awful coincidence that, as I reveal 409 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:23.559 in the book, led to two different people who both 410 00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:26.880 told me their stories who were pictured in well, actually 411 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:28.279 one of them told me their stories, the other one 412 00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:30.400 kind of like wouldn't comment on it, but I found 413 00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:32.519 out it happened. Two people who were in that picture 414 00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:35.759 on Kataco, and because of that Katako article of them 415 00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:38.119 being pictured next to Bill Cosby, they lost their jobs 416 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:42.240 at companies they were at after Blizzard. Two different people 417 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:44.119 lost their jobs because so it's kind of it's a 418 00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:47.359 lesson in what kind of I think misleading reporting and 419 00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:50.599 misleading lawsuits and just bad information can do to people. 420 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:53.160 It was also like, remember when this came out, it 421 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:55.799 was this hugely emotional time where people were like, oh 422 00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:59.680 my god, Blizzard had this really awful thing like this 423 00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:02.160 hap a Blizzard, Like Blizzard is my favorite company. Ever, 424 00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:03.839 I can't believe this happened there. So a lot of 425 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:07.400 heightened emotions were surrounding that article too, and people were 426 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:10.680 just shocked and appalled seeing it. But I think if 427 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:13.160 you give it some scrutiny, it kind of it's it's 428 00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:16.400 not what it seems. And the book dives into that too. 429 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:18.279 But here's the other wrinkle, and then I promise we 430 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:20.200 can move on, but just one more quick wrinkle, which 431 00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:22.839 is that the guy who ran the suite, Alex Epferciabi, 432 00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:26.400 was an alleged sex predator. A lot of people spoke 433 00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:28.799 out about him both in public in the lawsuit, on 434 00:20:28.839 --> 00:20:31.440 Twitter and also to me for my book. So you 435 00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:34.319 have this kind of twist where it's like or this 436 00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:37.720 muddied situation where it's like the suite itself that's misleading. 437 00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:39.799 The people posing in front of this cosy picture, they're not. 438 00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:42.599 That's not what it seems. But the guy who ran 439 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:45.440 the suite and whose sweet it was was accused of 440 00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:48.279 all these awful things and fired for his behavior at 441 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:50.480 Blizzard in twenty twenty, a year before the lossuit. So 442 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:53.799 whole complicated story of things there. 443 00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:56.079 That's kind of what my takeaway here is like it's 444 00:20:56.079 --> 00:21:00.359 way more complicated than you can imagine, and it's you 445 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:02.440 can say, oh, there was this bad culture, but maybe 446 00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:05.119 it was as bad as the average was. Oh it's 447 00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:08.119 a boys club, And then there were these extreme individuals 448 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:09.680 who actually were as bad. 449 00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:11.880 As you might have imagined, right yep, yeah, yeah, one 450 00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:13.759 hundred percent. And I name a couple of them in 451 00:21:13.799 --> 00:21:17.079 the book. What's really scary about Blizzard is that one 452 00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:20.160 of the people who was fired for well he was 453 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:23.240 technically fired for like lying during an HR investigation, But 454 00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:26.440 someone who was accused of bad things was this guy 455 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:28.480 Ben Kilgore, who was in the C suite at Blizzard. 456 00:21:28.519 --> 00:21:31.240 He was the chief technology officer and then chief development officer, 457 00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:34.039 and he was actually, as the book reveals, he was 458 00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:37.640 lined up to be Mike Morheim, the CEO's successor. So like, 459 00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:39.960 this is a company where it's not just like some 460 00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:42.759 bad apples and middle management or whatever. It's like some 461 00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:45.200 people who were really high up at the company who 462 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:48.599 were accused of doing bad things and reprimanded or fired 463 00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:51.920 as a result. He was fired in the summer of 464 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:53.799 twenty eighteen, Ben Kokor. 465 00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:57.279 Yeah, talking about Morheim's successor, I think about Jail and 466 00:21:57.319 --> 00:21:59.640 brack Alan and I still always have so many questions 467 00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:02.839 about that situation, right, Like, was he in a possible 468 00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:05.680 situation trying to lead Blizzard in this really rough time. 469 00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:07.960 Was he kind of part of the problem, you know, 470 00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:10.559 did he have to go? Or was he a bit 471 00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:12.960 of a scapegoat? That's kind of one figure that I'm 472 00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:14.759 interested in learning more about. 473 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:18.039 Yeah, I mean, the book dives into he did not 474 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:21.039 have a good relationship with Activision, So in terms of 475 00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:24.200 the business end of things, Activision versus Blizzard, that really 476 00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:28.000 kind of hit its peak when Mike Morheim left in 477 00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:30.839 twenty eighteen. Mirk Moreheim left, as the book reveals, because 478 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:33.480 he was sick of dealing with Bobby Kotick, Jayleen Brack 479 00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:35.759 took over. Jyalen Breck was seen within the company as 480 00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:39.759 like a Blizzard loyalist, someone who would really defend Blizzards. 481 00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:39.799 From World of Warcraft. 482 00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:43.599 Yes, World of Warcrafts executive producer had his own kind 483 00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:45.559 of issues that the book gets into a little bit, 484 00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:48.839 but also someone who was pretty widely respected there, and 485 00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:52.240 he notably was given the title president instead of CEO. 486 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:55.279 Bobby Kotick then became the only CEO at Activision. Blizzard 487 00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:57.720 worth noting there, and it was very clear from the 488 00:22:57.720 --> 00:22:59.920 beginning to Blizzard people that like he did not have 489 00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:02.880 the power or the clout that Morheim did. Morheim, just 490 00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:05.279 because of his tenure, because he was a co founder 491 00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:07.480 of the company, because he had a lot of leverage 492 00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:10.640 and a lot of respect, he could do more to 493 00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:13.599 protect the company from Activision than Brack ever could. And 494 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.480 on top of that, this was the period going into 495 00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:19.200 twenty nineteen and then twenty twenty and twenty twenty one. 496 00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:22.079 This is a period when diablofhorn overwatched you kept getting 497 00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:24.559 delayed and Jay and Brack had to like go to 498 00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:27.359 the board and like defend, like explain why they were 499 00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:30.000 getting delayed, and face all these battles of his own 500 00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:34.240 with the Activision people. So his relationship with them was 501 00:23:34.279 --> 00:23:37.359 also just kind of totally deteriorated by the point that 502 00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:40.920 the lawsuit had hit. I won't kind of speculate as 503 00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:43.720 to what Bobby Kodig was thinking, but like, there's certainly 504 00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:50.000 you could certainly see why it would be it would 505 00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:52.519 be useful to have someone else in charge potentially and 506 00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:54.680 ahead a blizzard. You could also see a pierce of 507 00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:57.599 like a situation where like someone had to go when 508 00:23:57.640 --> 00:23:59.839 all these allegations were floating around and a lot of 509 00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:02.400 One of the other really sloppy things about the lawsuit 510 00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:05.200 is that if you read through it, it just confuses 511 00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:10.400 like Activision, Activision, Blizzard, Blizzard, Blizzard departments within Blizzard. It's 512 00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:13.039 very confused about what it's trying to do. But a 513 00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:17.920 lot of the allegations centered on Blizzard itself. So I 514 00:24:17.960 --> 00:24:20.960 guess Ahead had to roll and it had to be him. 515 00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:25.920 He I don't think there have been It's hard to say. 516 00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:27.960 A lot of people have asked me like who knew what, 517 00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:31.079 Like who was responsible? Like ultimately, at the end of 518 00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:34.079 the day. But like to me, I don't think short 519 00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:36.680 of seeing HR investigations, which I have not done, it's 520 00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:39.519 very difficult to prove who knew what or when I 521 00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:44.119 think it's more the more, the kind of more reasonable 522 00:24:44.119 --> 00:24:46.519 conclusion is that like, if you're in charge of a company, 523 00:24:46.839 --> 00:24:49.519 you either know and you do nothing or you don't know, 524 00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:52.519 and both of those options are pretty badly bad. So 525 00:24:53.319 --> 00:24:56.240 it's it's a tough spot to be in. But yeah, 526 00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:58.400 I don't really think it matters who knew what because 527 00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:01.039 that's ultimately more high And then Brack were running the 528 00:25:01.079 --> 00:25:04.119 company as all this stuff was happening. That said, under Brack. 529 00:25:04.279 --> 00:25:05.920 I mean some of this stuff was like Alex Stuffer 530 00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:08.519 Siabi was fired under Brack, Like there were some things 531 00:25:08.519 --> 00:25:11.799 that were Blizzard was cleaning house. One of the responses 532 00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:14.079 from Activision Blizzard when the lawsuit hit was like a 533 00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:16.079 lot of this stuff is old, it happened in the past, 534 00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:17.480 And that is one hundred percent true. A lot of 535 00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:19.880 the stuff in the lawsuit was old, and Blizzard had 536 00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:22.960 been cleaning up some of that stuff. That said, judging 537 00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:26.039 by the fact that after the lawsuit hit, they fired 538 00:25:26.119 --> 00:25:29.720 or punished like dozens of people at the company. Clearly 539 00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:32.880 they had not done everything. Then again, the flip side 540 00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:36.960 of this is that, like HR, not everybody reports things 541 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:39.440 to HR. And I heard stories from women who like 542 00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:43.160 wouldn't report things to HR because they were told by HR, 543 00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:45.480 if you were going to file a formal report on this, 544 00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:48.039 we have to contact the police and you have to 545 00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:50.079 like put file someone's name and file a police report. 546 00:25:50.119 --> 00:25:51.119 And they were like, I don't want. 547 00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:51.519 To do that. 548 00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:53.880 I'm not going to report this at all. But when 549 00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:56.400 the lawsuit hits, a lot more stories start bubbling up 550 00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:58.839 because a lot more women feel comfortable sharing their stories. 551 00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:01.400 They feel like, oh, it's not me, Oh this is 552 00:26:01.400 --> 00:26:02.920 something where I can have my voice to this and 553 00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:05.279 maybe help clean up the place. So it winds up 554 00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:08.000 having a cascading effect. So you could also argue that, 555 00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:10.920 like those dozens of people who were reprimanded or fired 556 00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:13.839 after the lawsuit hit, maybe nobody would have ever known 557 00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:15.920 about that if not for the lawsuit in the first place. 558 00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:16.720 So it's all very. 559 00:26:16.599 --> 00:26:19.640 Message and complicated, and yeah, I just I don't like 560 00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:22.160 to say I don't like to explain that like or 561 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:24.519 I don't like to blame like this person for knowing 562 00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:27.039 or not knowing because it just feels like the truth 563 00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:27.519 is always so. 564 00:26:27.559 --> 00:26:29.720 Much more common. Humans are more complicated than that. Yeah. 565 00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:32.119 And also something that executives told me while I was 566 00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:33.759 reporting on this book, and I thought this was a 567 00:26:33.799 --> 00:26:36.119 salient point, is that a lot of the times, just 568 00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:39.000 because of the way this stuff works, is if I 569 00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:42.640 am an employee of Blizzard and I fire a file 570 00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:46.200 an HR complaint about someone, that person might be punished 571 00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:48.799 in some way, have their salary doctor be put on 572 00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:51.880 suspension or demoted, and I would never know about it 573 00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:55.000 because HR can't necessarily tell me what they did to 574 00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:58.519 that person. So sometimes people at the lower levels felt 575 00:26:58.519 --> 00:27:01.279 like their HR complaints weren't listening to, but they were. 576 00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:03.599 The people at the lower levels just didn't know about it. 577 00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:05.319 And I thought that was a good point as well. 578 00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:08.799 So again, all very complicated. And if there's one takeaway 579 00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:12.160 I hope people have from this book, pltaty nice. It's 580 00:27:12.200 --> 00:27:15.200 like that the reality is so much more nuanced and 581 00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:18.799 complicated than like these headlines are tweets about how Blizzard 582 00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:21.920 was a sex den full of Cosby suite and stuff like, 583 00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:25.000 Blizzard had lots of problems and they were complicated and 584 00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:27.920 it's worth thinking about and seeing the whole picture, which 585 00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:29.160 is one of the reasons that I'm glad I was 586 00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:31.119 able to do this book and I'm excited to put 587 00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:33.000 it out there because I feel like it's got some 588 00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:37.119 nuance that, hopefully people gives people a broader and more 589 00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:42.440 like a multifaceted perspective than they had before reading it. 590 00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:46.759 Yeah. I always appreciate searching for nuance because it is 591 00:27:46.759 --> 00:27:49.680 something that is so frequently lost in day to day reporting. 592 00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:53.480 One last thing and then we should like reiterate when 593 00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:56.880 the book's coming out and all that stuff. I remember maybe, god, 594 00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:58.640 it's probably about ten years ago now. One of the 595 00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:00.720 things that kind of first it's like, oh yeah, Jason 596 00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:03.640 Trin know, as we was talking about I was thinking 597 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:05.960 at the time, boy, these Triple A games are getting 598 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:08.680 more and more expensive, and it seems like they're on 599 00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:12.640 a path towards unsustainability. And then I think I read 600 00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:14.920 a story that you did or something like that where like, yeah, 601 00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:16.480 that's kind of the feeling a lot of people have, 602 00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:18.319 and as we look at stuff, it's kind of the 603 00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:22.880 feeling I have. Has that feeling dissipated or is it 604 00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:25.200 kind of seem more obvious than ever that it's unsustainable. 605 00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:27.359 How do you feel about the future, especially companies like 606 00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:31.880 Sony Microsoft, big publishers like Activision selling to Microsoft so 607 00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:33.960 they can kind of justify their ongoing existence. How do 608 00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:35.559 you feel about all of that in the future of 609 00:28:35.720 --> 00:28:37.200 big games from big publishers. 610 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:39.640 That's a debacle. There are too many games out there. 611 00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:42.720 You When the book is written about like the last 612 00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:45.720 few years of the games industry, it'll be really interesting 613 00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:48.920 to see how many problems can be pinpointed to Fortnite, 614 00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:52.240 Grand Theft, Auto Online and like the other games that 615 00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:53.480 just cannibalize the audience. 616 00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:58.160 Yeah, black Hole games that they. 617 00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:01.400 Just yea kill the market, right, Yeah, it's really interesting. 618 00:29:01.400 --> 00:29:03.240 I mean, my last book, press Reset, was about the 619 00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:06.160 volatility and unsustainability of the videogram industry. So and that 620 00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:08.960 came out in twenty twenty one, so things on only 621 00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:11.480 stayed the same or gotten worse since then. And yeah, 622 00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:14.839 it's really it's hard to imagine what the future looks like, 623 00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:17.960 especially for these big budget extravaganzas. 624 00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:18.799 I don't know. 625 00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:21.519 The one thing that gives me so less in terms 626 00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:23.640 of like looking at the broad industry is just how 627 00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:27.039 much cool creative stuff is coming from the indie space, 628 00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:29.200 and a lot of people feel that way. But playing 629 00:29:29.240 --> 00:29:33.880 games like Animal Well and like the Latro and UFO fifty, 630 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:36.240 it's just like, oh man, there's so much cool stuff 631 00:29:36.279 --> 00:29:39.279 out there that it's you can't get too depressed about 632 00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:40.160 the future. Right. 633 00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:41.920 It feels like the answer is already built in, right, 634 00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:44.160 we will, we know the solution to the problem. We're 635 00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:46.960 already playing those games exactly. The problem's not going to 636 00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:49.079 pop up at like Microsoft Sony. 637 00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:51.920 Acts problem for them, so and it's curious, yeah, se but. 638 00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:54.559 Not a problem for me who likes playing games, right, Yeah. 639 00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:58.480 Online Horizon to solve all the. 640 00:29:57.519 --> 00:29:59.480 Mike I was about to be like, well, the future 641 00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:07.960 is enough life everybody wants. 642 00:30:05.799 --> 00:30:07.359 And we'll talk about that in the news again the 643 00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:12.240 Jason Tryer segment. So don't worry about that. Yeah, yeah, 644 00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:13.920 tell us, Yeah, tell us what's again? Like, when is 645 00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:15.519 the book at? Where can people get it? Where should 646 00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:16.599 they go to pre order it? Yeah? 647 00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:18.440 If you think it sounds cool, and I hope you do, 648 00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:20.960 it's called plain nice. The Rise, Future, Rise, Fallen Future 649 00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:24.480 BISI Incertainment comes out on October eighth, so just a 650 00:30:24.519 --> 00:30:26.960 week from today. The day we're recording this, and you 651 00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:29.160 can get it in hardcover, you can get it in 652 00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:31.839 digital on your Kindle or whatever ebook, and you can 653 00:30:31.880 --> 00:30:34.680 get it in audio. It's read by uh Ray Trace 654 00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:39.319 Ray Chase, the prolific voice actor best known for Final 655 00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:43.599 Fantasy fifteen. He's Nactus. He also plays Warcraft. He plays 656 00:30:43.640 --> 00:30:45.720 like uh what's his name in Warcraft? One of the 657 00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:49.640 orcs he plays in Warcraft, and most notably, he's the 658 00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:54.240 subway announcer in Persona five. And yeah, you can preorder 659 00:30:54.279 --> 00:30:57.400 it now. I recommend pre ordering it because I called 660 00:30:57.440 --> 00:30:59.400 a couple of Barns and Nobles near me and they 661 00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:02.599 bill told me they've only ordered like three or four copies. 662 00:31:02.599 --> 00:31:04.079 So pre order it so you can make sure you 663 00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:07.839 get yourself a copy, ideally at your local indie bookstore. 664 00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:11.160 Help support your local indie bookstore, unless you're gonna get 665 00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:13.240 digital or audio, which is also totally fine, and get 666 00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:15.960 that online. And yeah, check it out. I think people 667 00:31:16.039 --> 00:31:18.160 will really dig it. I mean, I think it's it's 668 00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:21.200 my best book to date. I'm really proud of it. 669 00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:23.720 If you liked my previous books or any of my reporting, 670 00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:25.440 I think you'll really you'll really enjoy it. 671 00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:27.039 I'm really excited for it. I can't wait. 672 00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:30.079 It was just really in the trenches with Blizzard for 673 00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:32.359 a while there, so really going deep in those stories 674 00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:33.359 is going to be a ton of fun. 675 00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:34.599 I hope you dig it. 676 00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:37.359 I hope the enjoyant. Mike. I'm looking forward to it 677 00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:38.079 as well. Jason. 678 00:31:38.119 --> 00:31:40.799 I find that these books are, you know, little mini 679 00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:44.640 museums in pay per form and speak about museums. Dan Reikert, 680 00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:49.920 you just came back from maybe the most Dan museum 681 00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:50.359 in the world. 682 00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:52.759 If it wasn't about what I thought at all, right, 683 00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:54.920 oh god, it's bigger than I thought. 684 00:31:55.240 --> 00:31:57.559 Honestly, tell the audio listeners. 685 00:31:57.599 --> 00:32:00.000 It's got a giant the ten to sixty four control 686 00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:02.000 and it's just so much bigger than I was even expecting. 687 00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:05.839 As I bought extra luggage to bring this home, I 688 00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:07.880 knew it was gonna be a problem. I didn't bring 689 00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:10.920 any check luggage to Japan. I brought a backpack and 690 00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:13.720 a little carry on thing. And I saw that at 691 00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:15.680 the gift shop and I was like, fuck, are you 692 00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:18.920 kidding me? It's like and I tried to like, but 693 00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:21.400 it's like really puffy and hard and stuff, and like 694 00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:22.880 I could not squeeze it down. So I had to 695 00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:25.160 go to a don Quixote at a mall in Kyoto 696 00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:28.160 and buy like a fold out luggage thing for that. 697 00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:30.200 So I just filled it with an N sixty four 698 00:32:30.279 --> 00:32:32.319 controller and a shit ton of candy and that. 699 00:32:32.440 --> 00:32:33.200 Then I checked that. 700 00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:35.480 So somebody like inspected that it's just like, oh, the 701 00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:41.039 eight year old is flying to Minneapolis. Yeah, so I 702 00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:44.279 wrote an entire big article thing on Uh. 703 00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:46.920 It was very good, Dan, Thank you, thanks. It's funny. 704 00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:48.519 I've been doing a little bit of writing for it 705 00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:51.359 a metal gear and this. It's fun to kind of 706 00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:53.880 you know, go back to that. But so, yeah, check 707 00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:56.519 it out on game spot. Just look up into museum 708 00:32:56.680 --> 00:32:58.680 Dan Record on a game spot and you'll see it. 709 00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:01.440 But yeah, yeah, I go into the details there. 710 00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:04.799 But the short version is I thought it was incredible, 711 00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:07.279 you know, as a lifelong Nintendo fan. 712 00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:08.680 Obviously it is. 713 00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:12.960 Pretty uniquely laid out for a museum, and that it 714 00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:16.559 is not a lot of plaques or placards or information 715 00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:20.720 or text. It's a lot of like it's a lot 716 00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:23.480 of game boxes, it's a lot of displays, it's a 717 00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:24.559 lot of audio and video. 718 00:33:26.359 --> 00:33:27.680 The backs of all these. 719 00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:30.079 Displays have like like the fronts you saw in the 720 00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:33.359 direct word, it's like here's all the different territories you 721 00:33:33.400 --> 00:33:35.039 know of every box art, So here's you know, the 722 00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:37.960 North American, here's the European, here's the Japanese. But then 723 00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:40.240 on the back it's all the hardware stuff. There's like 724 00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:42.400 it's I counted all of them. It was almost like 725 00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:45.039 thirty variants of the sp all next to each other, 726 00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:48.119 all pristine. Like my collector brain was just going insane 727 00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:50.279 looking at everything, like they're all complete in box, every 728 00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:51.119 single one of these games. 729 00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:53.640 I asked them about it, and seeing all these. 730 00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:56.680 Sps, like the weird like Mario Tribal tattoo one, so 731 00:33:56.839 --> 00:34:00.960 like a case with every Fantastic Transparent sixty four in there. 732 00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:04.880 Seeing an Ultra sixty four in person, Yeah that's yeah, 733 00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:06.799 the older sixty four it's right there, and like I 734 00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:08.039 got right up to it and it's got a big 735 00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:10.800 chunky analog stick and it's just like crazy because that 736 00:34:10.840 --> 00:34:13.760 was like everyding EGMs and game informers in nineteen ninety five. 737 00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:16.119 You know, as we're building up to the sixty four, 738 00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:17.840 you saw all these images of it and it's like, oh, 739 00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:18.960 I can't wait to get an Alder sixteens. 740 00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:21.519 So I remember playing Happened Cruising USA and Arkide I 741 00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:24.440 think right, and had the ultore logo blog like that 742 00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:27.119 was so almost the name of that console. 743 00:34:27.320 --> 00:34:29.199 And then seeing like an actual one along with like 744 00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:31.199 a bunch of prototypes and stuff. They have a ton 745 00:34:31.239 --> 00:34:33.320 of like prototypes of like the DS and just like 746 00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:36.239 wacky ways they were trying to like figure out that technology. 747 00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:38.400 And like the first Game Boy micros was just like 748 00:34:38.440 --> 00:34:40.639 four big buttons and then one little screen up top 749 00:34:41.719 --> 00:34:44.159 a we remote prototype that was a Frisbee with an 750 00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:47.360 Invincibility star in the middle of it. It's just that 751 00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:50.000 there is a lot more than just the game boxes. 752 00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:52.360 Like the main thing when you go up the escalator 753 00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:54.119 is seeing all the displays of the boxes. But then 754 00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:56.840 like I spent pretty much two days walking around this 755 00:34:56.960 --> 00:34:59.760 place taking everything in, uh and it was like a 756 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:01.960 small or media thing, and a lot of the media folks, 757 00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:04.480 like you know, left after lunch. The place stayed open 758 00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:07.159 and fully staffed until six both days, so like I 759 00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:09.639 had hours where I was literally just like walking around 760 00:35:09.639 --> 00:35:11.880 the Nintendo Museum by myself and then going to the 761 00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:13.840 lower level with all the interactive stuff and trying like 762 00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:16.119 I guess I'll do every one of these batting cage 763 00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:18.679 rooms with the like ultramachine pitching machine, and. 764 00:35:18.599 --> 00:35:20.480 Like I played all the big controllers. 765 00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:23.960 I was doing speed run strats on a fucking or 766 00:35:24.039 --> 00:35:26.840 As controller the size of my door it was. And 767 00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:28.960 I went in there and they were like, they're like, well, 768 00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:30.440 you know it's suposed to be done with two people, 769 00:35:30.519 --> 00:35:31.119 and I was like. 770 00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:31.840 No, I got this. 771 00:35:33.679 --> 00:35:35.679 Playing Mario one with like I had just done a 772 00:35:35.719 --> 00:35:37.920 bunch of the like NES World Championship, like see how 773 00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:39.880 far you can get in uh in Mario one. So 774 00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:43.039 I'm literally doing speed run strats on this giant NES 775 00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:45.760 controller and like all the intendings and stuff are watching. 776 00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:46.719 And like clapping and stuff like that. 777 00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:50.440 Ah, that's awesome. Gosh, you said you had enough times 778 00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:51.880 like that. You're supposed to get to the end of one one, 779 00:35:51.880 --> 00:35:53.480 but you got to like four to two or something and. 780 00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:56.440 The four three four three in the whole goal of 781 00:35:56.480 --> 00:35:58.280 the thing, and they have like X amount of seconds 782 00:35:58.320 --> 00:35:59.639 and you have to just get to the black ball 783 00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:00.519 one one was like fuck that. 784 00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:04.159 I'm like in the in the video trailer they revealed 785 00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:06.719 for the museum, there was like a shot of Mimoto 786 00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:08.840 in front of a stroller and a gun. Did you 787 00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:09.199 see that? 788 00:36:09.199 --> 00:36:09.639 What it was? 789 00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:10.400 I saw the gun? 790 00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:12.840 So that's the thing is like I didn't really know, Like, 791 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:14.360 you know, I was born in eighty four, so like 792 00:36:14.440 --> 00:36:16.960 my earliest memories were like Mario one playing it when 793 00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:18.719 I was four years old, and like, you know, eighty eight, 794 00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:21.719 so I knew vaguely that you know, they had made 795 00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:23.639 a hunt of food, of cards and toys and things. 796 00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:25.159 And then there's that bad stuff in Warrior where that 797 00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:25.960 I never placed. 798 00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:28.960 And then yeah, the amount of things that I saw 799 00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:31.599 from like old toys and stuff like the ultrahand grabber 800 00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:33.360 thing and night thing. It's like, oh, that's from that 801 00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:35.480 Warrior worre thing the or the cowboy we have to 802 00:36:35.480 --> 00:36:36.440 shoot him over with the gun. 803 00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:37.840 It's like, oh, that was a Nintendo. 804 00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:40.159 One of the toys they made like before the nes Yeah. Yeah. 805 00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:42.079 And learning about like it was so crazy, Like you know, 806 00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:44.599 it goes chronologically, and I started at like the nineteen 807 00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:47.280 fifties there and seeing all these like a lot of 808 00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:51.400 Disney license stuff with Nintendo logos on it, which was weird. 809 00:36:51.679 --> 00:36:55.199 And somebody cares about Mickey Mouse it's weird that they 810 00:36:55.519 --> 00:36:58.159 in the fifties they did. And the fifties, right, that's 811 00:36:58.159 --> 00:36:59.679 when many realized there were better things. 812 00:36:59.719 --> 00:37:02.360 Yeah, yeah, Jon, Do your kids know who Mickey Mouse is? 813 00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:07.800 Yes, they get more excited if you got them like 814 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:12.360 a backpack of Rosalina from Mario or of Many Mouse. 815 00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:14.599 They wouldn't know who Rosalina is right now. So my 816 00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:17.920 son Dan, my son is too and he got very 817 00:37:17.920 --> 00:37:21.400 excited because he got an Alma backpack. That's the stage there. 818 00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:27.280 But no, okay, okay, but my daughter is five and 819 00:37:27.480 --> 00:37:30.039 she I've played some games with her to the point 820 00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:32.960 where she's excited because I got that stupid three hundred 821 00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:35.840 dollars Lego Deku tree and she's excited to build that way. 822 00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:36.400 H huh. 823 00:37:36.440 --> 00:37:39.079 I'm excited to do that too. Yeah, did you know 824 00:37:39.159 --> 00:37:40.480 Peach or Mini Mouse more? 825 00:37:41.599 --> 00:37:44.159 She would know Peach better than Miny. She's never like 826 00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:46.639 she only knows Mickey just because I've been like, oh 827 00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:49.559 that's Mickey Mouse, not because she like absorbs anything. She 828 00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:51.880 knows Peach from playing Mario Wonder with me. 829 00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:54.079 So, but it's not gonna be showing the dollar bill 830 00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:56.599 like this is George Washington, like that's that's the context 831 00:37:56.599 --> 00:37:57.239 of many mouse. 832 00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:00.480 Yeah, like, there's no Mickey is not part of like 833 00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:04.079 they watched Bluie and Daniel Tiger and like shows that 834 00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:06.159 have nothing to do with Mickey. Mickey is not even. 835 00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:09.039 Part of our diseasi properly to the US. So there's 836 00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:09.760 kind of a thing. 837 00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:12.719 Okay, all right, calm down, comes an al bud. 838 00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:17.079 Sorry, it's not You always ask video people like what 839 00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:19.320 do your children who grew up with all your feelings? 840 00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:20.800 I agree. 841 00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:22.719 I just wish that Drake was here so I could 842 00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:25.039 be like nobody could about Mickey. 843 00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:30.039 It hurts me more than Drake. Dan. 844 00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:32.719 You're still burying the real lead here though. You had 845 00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:34.760 a big scoop, and I think you should share it 846 00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:38.000 with all of us about the States mainline Maria. 847 00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:39.960 Game, just to show that I'm an honorable man. 848 00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:42.800 I could have buried this, but I I looked at 849 00:38:42.840 --> 00:38:44.920 the situation and I was like, I have to report 850 00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:45.239 on this. 851 00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:47.239 I love the idea of you being like, I got 852 00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:49.480 this hot information I can't let the people know, but 853 00:38:50.440 --> 00:38:52.159 you like and everything. 854 00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:54.280 Yeah, I knew it was funny and I knew I 855 00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:55.320 had to say it. 856 00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:58.960 So Jason, are you aware of my longtime crusade of 857 00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:01.920 saying that Yoshi's Island is a mainline Mario game. 858 00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:02.360 I am. 859 00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:06.920 I am with that. 860 00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:10.920 I don't have strong opinions about this. I'll side with 861 00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:12.840 Dan Reicher as for. 862 00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:16.840 The walls, just sryer, Okay. 863 00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:19.679 So they have in a corner they have like it 864 00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:23.719 displays by franchise, so like the biggest one is Mario, 865 00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:26.079 and so you know, it kind of goes chronologically co 866 00:39:26.199 --> 00:39:29.320 introduced in nineteen eighty five, you know, Yoshi introduced in whatever, 867 00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:33.239 Kirby Donkey Kong, all this stuff, and the Mario one's huge, 868 00:39:33.559 --> 00:39:35.880 by the way, side note, it's hilarious. This is in 869 00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:38.719 the back corner of the exhibit room and in the 870 00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:41.840 furthest corner of this back corner exhibit, they have some 871 00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:44.239 stuff from the movies. And so here's a few things 872 00:39:44.239 --> 00:39:47.480 from like the successful movie from last year, and literally 873 00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:50.079 just like they're trying to hide it while still technically 874 00:39:50.119 --> 00:39:52.920 acknowledging it. There's a DVD of the Bob Hoskins in 875 00:39:53.079 --> 00:39:54.559 front office. 876 00:39:54.719 --> 00:39:55.199 I love it. 877 00:39:56.599 --> 00:39:58.920 But yeah, so there's a big center ring in the 878 00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:02.599 Mario exhibit and it's the mainline platformers, and you know 879 00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:04.039 it's got Mario USA. 880 00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:06.920 You know, our Mario everything, the Mario series. 881 00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:10.320 Just you just look at it and there's like a huge, 882 00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:14.400 like wallpaper like borrow, it's a clearly grand wallpaper. Yeah, 883 00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:16.440 and it's like, oh, here's all the party games, here's 884 00:40:16.440 --> 00:40:18.679 the golf stuff, here's the tennis stuff, here's the carts, 885 00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:22.320 all that stuff. And I immediately when I realized what 886 00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:23.840 they're doing there, I'm like, hang on, okay, this is 887 00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:26.239 the platformers. I'm like, okay, Mario one two three World 888 00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:29.960 goes right to sixty four? What And then I was like, hmm, okay, 889 00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:31.880 maybe it's somewhere else in here. I turned my head 890 00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:35.840 to the right. Here's the Yoshi series, big green display here. 891 00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:39.920 First one on the Yoshi series is Yoshi's Island. 892 00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:40.800 And I just can't. 893 00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:43.199 Believe that Yoshi's Island where you play is Yoshi is 894 00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:46.559 a Yoshi game. Mario World two Yoshi's Island. 895 00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:48.599 But I will always be able to fall back on 896 00:40:48.639 --> 00:40:51.039 the fact that I asked Miyamoto and Miamoto said it's corn. 897 00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:54.840 Translation and all he said he was like, yeah, sure, 898 00:40:54.920 --> 00:40:56.960 Yoshi's a Mario game. He didn't see it, like, yeah, 899 00:40:57.039 --> 00:40:59.679 Yoshi Island is a main line Mario game, And yeah. 900 00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:02.360 Were you did read the quote again, read the qute again? 901 00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:03.039 Trust me I did. 902 00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:06.440 Were you equally surprised to learn that Mario Wonder is 903 00:41:06.440 --> 00:41:07.760 a mainline Mario game? 904 00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:10.920 The son of a big all right? 905 00:41:12.119 --> 00:41:16.639 I can guarantee you was thinking to himself, who gives 906 00:41:16.639 --> 00:41:16.920 a fu? 907 00:41:18.119 --> 00:41:21.639 In Japanese going Dan originally asked the question too. It's like, 908 00:41:21.679 --> 00:41:23.320 oh my god, get this man out of this room. 909 00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:26.920 It's one hundred percent that itching scratchy panel they do 910 00:41:27.159 --> 00:41:32.880 or yeah, two distinct tones like I'm that guy, yes, 911 00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:36.360 but no, it was really incredible. I also went to 912 00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:38.559 the Nintendo store in Kyoto and I got all the 913 00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:41.800 I startered with children to make sure I got all 914 00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:43.480 of the gotcha's all these little key. 915 00:41:43.400 --> 00:41:45.360 Cho these little Japanese children. 916 00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:48.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was awesome. It was honestly, everyone 917 00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:51.360 won because everyone's happy. Everyone wound up getting the things 918 00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:52.920 they wanted because we're all around, We're all trying to 919 00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:54.840 get as many as possible. And I have all these 920 00:41:54.920 --> 00:41:57.840 doubles and I'm like, okay, hey, I'm not hovering over these, 921 00:41:57.840 --> 00:41:59.079 like five, which one you get? 922 00:41:59.159 --> 00:41:59.880 You get? You get this? 923 00:41:59.920 --> 00:42:03.320 The Japanese at least with like ears, like we're keeping 924 00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:04.360 an eye of the situation. 925 00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:07.480 But the dinner store employees were looking at me. But 926 00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:09.039 I wasn't the only one doing it, So I think 927 00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:09.480 I was good. 928 00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:11.320 You could say that you were the one doing it 929 00:42:11.480 --> 00:42:13.239 the most or the loudest, right, I was. 930 00:42:13.159 --> 00:42:14.280 There until I got all of them. 931 00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:16.079 Yeah, definitely, Yeah, Okay, you go home. 932 00:42:16.119 --> 00:42:18.039 You were there, so you had an army of children 933 00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:21.159 to send to steal hats for you throughout all of us. 934 00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:24.360 Sokka, yes, yes, uh, there's a nice couple from Calgary. 935 00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:26.159 We talked about Brett Hart for a while, so yeah, 936 00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:29.159 everybody was trying to get away the international language. 937 00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:30.199 Yeah, was that? 938 00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:31.599 Did they bring up Brett Hart? Dan? 939 00:42:32.199 --> 00:42:34.199 No, they said they're from Calgary, and I immediately started 940 00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:40.400 talking about Brette Hart and they seemed somewhat aware of him. Hey, hitmen, Yes, 941 00:42:40.599 --> 00:42:41.800 that's what they brought up the job. 942 00:42:41.960 --> 00:42:42.519 Did you do anything? 943 00:42:42.639 --> 00:42:43.000 Kyoto? 944 00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:47.440 For funzies are just mostly around the Nintendo stuff, mostly 945 00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:48.840 Nintendo stuff spent. 946 00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:51.159 I had one afternoon to kind of explore, went to 947 00:42:51.239 --> 00:42:54.400 a retro game shop and bought a good amount of stuff, 948 00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:57.199 got some great Everything's just so cheap there as far 949 00:42:57.199 --> 00:42:58.079 as like CIB stuff. 950 00:42:58.119 --> 00:42:59.400 So I got a bunch of sixty four stuff. 951 00:42:59.400 --> 00:43:02.199 I got Mario World Complete in box, I got a 952 00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:05.559 Majora's mask and box had a great moment. 953 00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:05.880 First. 954 00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:08.880 Ay, we were going to the Nintendo Museum. It's rush 955 00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:12.559 hour at Kyoto Station, which is this giant train station, 956 00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:16.360 and you know, it's just like I am in those situations. 957 00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:17.920 I just don't want to be in anyone's way. I 958 00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:19.960 don't want to bother anyone. I just want to you know, 959 00:43:20.199 --> 00:43:22.519 I'm confused, and I'm the dumb American. I just don't 960 00:43:22.519 --> 00:43:24.559 want to like fuck anything up, you know. And so 961 00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:26.199 I'm just like, I'm gonna follow whatever this person does 962 00:43:26.239 --> 00:43:27.679 in front of me. And I had a card, a 963 00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:30.719 plastic card that had all this like preloaded, you know, 964 00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:33.719 money for traveling on it or whatever. And so I'm 965 00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:35.199 all right, I'm gonna watch these people do in front 966 00:43:35.199 --> 00:43:36.960 of me at the turnstiles. And they went up and 967 00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:39.159 somebody had something in their hand and they put it 968 00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:41.480 in the slot. It comes out the other side. They 969 00:43:41.519 --> 00:43:43.880 grabbed the things open up, they move on. I was like, okay, 970 00:43:43.960 --> 00:43:45.519 got it, got it, I'm gonna do it. So I 971 00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:50.199 put my plastic card, you know, the slot. Yeah, not 972 00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:52.599 realizing that people in front of me had a paper ticket, 973 00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:56.880 I put in this like credit card thing just rush hour, 974 00:43:57.760 --> 00:44:02.519 everything freezes, fucking meltdown. People have to come take the 975 00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:06.119 machine apart and take my gnarled card out. 976 00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:09.320 Of this thing. Everyone behind me's pissed off. I'm dying. 977 00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:12.159 I just apparently you're supposed to just hold the thing 978 00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:14.199 like that instead of put it through. 979 00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:15.519 So yeah, I fuck that up real bad. 980 00:44:18.039 --> 00:44:20.400 So they should send all of us to Japan, is 981 00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:22.400 what I'm Yeah, we can stop. 982 00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:23.559 These things from happening exactly. 983 00:44:23.719 --> 00:44:26.119 Yes, it was my first time in Kyoto. I'd been 984 00:44:26.119 --> 00:44:27.679 a couple of times. It's been like ten years. Last 985 00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:30.199 time I went was before Middle Year five came out 986 00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:33.199 and I went out there for game informers. So first 987 00:44:33.199 --> 00:44:36.000 time in Kyoto for some of Japan ten years. Man, 988 00:44:36.039 --> 00:44:39.519 it's just a cool country. Like the seven eleven situation 989 00:44:39.760 --> 00:44:42.639 is ridiculous there. It was great before, and I think 990 00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:44.800 it's gotten better. I got to my hotel and I 991 00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:46.480 was like, oh, fuck, yeah, there's a seven eleven a 992 00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:48.280 block away. If you don't know, seven eleven has all 993 00:44:48.280 --> 00:44:50.280 this like Coonbani food that is just amazing, Like all 994 00:44:50.280 --> 00:44:53.239 this like Gonigari and like these pre packed like just great. 995 00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:56.559 Snacks basically, and it's a block away from my hotel. Awesome. 996 00:44:56.760 --> 00:44:59.119 The next day, I'm coming back in an uber and 997 00:44:59.199 --> 00:45:01.320 I see my hotel and I'm like, wait, what is that. 998 00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:04.639 It's another seven eleven attached to my hotel. That's bigger. 999 00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:09.280 So they're like every block, every train station, airport, everywhere 1000 00:45:09.280 --> 00:45:10.880 you go, these seven elevens are there with all these 1001 00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:13.559 awesome snacks and candies and everything, just you know, fried 1002 00:45:13.639 --> 00:45:15.639 chicken on a stick, these pizza buns that I kept 1003 00:45:15.639 --> 00:45:18.039 buying break coffee, and it seems like they're not as 1004 00:45:18.039 --> 00:45:21.159 big on soda. They'll have like coke, but like Bakari 1005 00:45:21.239 --> 00:45:22.800 Sweat had a lot of that, and you got Pikachu 1006 00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:26.760 vending machines. Yeah man, Yeah, I went to Coco Chibania. 1007 00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:28.199 I know that it's a big chain that we've got 1008 00:45:28.280 --> 00:45:30.039 him in the States somewhere, but like I had it 1009 00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:32.239 and it's just the fucking best. I remember meet Tim 1010 00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:34.920 and Ben Hansen go into Coco Chibania a million times 1011 00:45:34.920 --> 00:45:38.599 when we used to go, so so good. Wow, what 1012 00:45:38.679 --> 00:45:41.760 else it's I just I love that country. It's really cool. 1013 00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:43.880 I rode the bullet train, So I flew into Tokyo 1014 00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:47.599 direct and then I bullet trained to Kyoto, which is like, 1015 00:45:47.639 --> 00:45:50.719 you know, a little shy three hours and so comfortable 1016 00:45:50.840 --> 00:45:52.960 and just everything's just so clean and nice. 1017 00:45:53.119 --> 00:45:54.440 And what was it like coming back here? 1018 00:45:55.639 --> 00:45:58.880 Coming back? Well, I came back to Minneapols. I like Minneapolis, Okay, 1019 00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:03.480 also really good in a different way. But yeah, I 1020 00:46:03.480 --> 00:46:05.159 don't know, it was just it was a great time. 1021 00:46:05.239 --> 00:46:08.239 The museum itself is just like it's you know, people 1022 00:46:08.280 --> 00:46:10.239 talk like you Mike talk about like the Disney magic 1023 00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:12.920 of Disney World and things like that and the care 1024 00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:15.599 that goes into everything. There's a lot of that here 1025 00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:18.320 where it's like there's hidden Pickman that you can find. 1026 00:46:18.679 --> 00:46:20.360 I loved looking around and like, you know, even like 1027 00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:22.639 late on the second day, still finding like little Pickman's 1028 00:46:22.679 --> 00:46:24.719 and you know, oh that bush has a little Pikachu 1029 00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:26.639 tale coming out of it or things like that. 1030 00:46:27.559 --> 00:46:29.360 Making the hat of Food of Cards was really nice. 1031 00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:30.440 I kind of thought that, like. 1032 00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:33.000 You seem like you're in the zone. Yeah, yeah, I. 1033 00:46:32.920 --> 00:46:35.559 Don't really have like a connection obviously to the Hana 1034 00:46:35.599 --> 00:46:37.599 fooda cards or anything. And I've thought like, okay, I'll 1035 00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:38.960 just do this because it's one of the things they 1036 00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:41.800 offer here, but it's actually really nice and like kind 1037 00:46:41.800 --> 00:46:44.719 of a calming thing to do. I talked to a 1038 00:46:44.719 --> 00:46:46.519 lot of people, like press people there, and I think 1039 00:46:46.519 --> 00:46:48.960 we all had a similar feeling of this is a 1040 00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:52.079 unique museum in that, you know, if you go to 1041 00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:55.119 a historical museum or an art museum or something like that, 1042 00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:58.559 you can appreciate the exhibits obviously in the historical aspect 1043 00:46:58.599 --> 00:47:00.519 of it, the artistry of it, but you don't have 1044 00:47:00.519 --> 00:47:03.480 a personal connection with a lot of it. For me, 1045 00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:06.239 you know, I was going chronologically and you know, walking 1046 00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:09.880 around and like I really got almost overwhelmed with the 1047 00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:13.599 amount of memories of just like my life. It was 1048 00:47:13.639 --> 00:47:15.599 almost like I'm time stamping my life. Like you know, 1049 00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:17.559 I'm walking through the NES exhibit. It's like, oh, I 1050 00:47:17.559 --> 00:47:20.320 remember watching Dad play the first Zelda here and it's 1051 00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:22.679 like it's Superintendent. It's like, oh, there's Ken Griffy Junior, like, 1052 00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:24.760 or here's Mario cart I remember when Dad used to 1053 00:47:24.800 --> 00:47:26.400 race home so we could get a Grand Prix in. 1054 00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:28.320 Before you had to go back to work. Here's sixty four. 1055 00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:30.000 Oh me and my sisters, you know, trying to get 1056 00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:33.280 my grandma to learn no buy Mario Party and you know, 1057 00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:35.159 just like time stamping all this stuff like oh the 1058 00:47:35.199 --> 00:47:36.960 Wei you know, like not the best library, but it 1059 00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:38.760 brought me back to like in the last months of 1060 00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:41.000 my grandpa's life, like he never was able to play 1061 00:47:41.039 --> 00:47:42.960 video games, but then we Bowling. I remember being in 1062 00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:44.760 the nursing home with them playing we Bowling. So it's 1063 00:47:44.800 --> 00:47:47.199 like you kind of bring with you if you're a 1064 00:47:47.239 --> 00:47:50.280 lifelong Nintendo fan, you know, all these personal memories, and 1065 00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:54.000 it made it very affecting to me to have all 1066 00:47:54.039 --> 00:47:57.960 this just displayed so so beautifully. Everything's so pristine. The 1067 00:47:58.039 --> 00:48:00.639 big controllers are so so cool, like not just the 1068 00:48:00.639 --> 00:48:02.760 ones that are interactive that you can play, but like 1069 00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:05.880 above every exhibit they have, like here's a giant Weu 1070 00:48:05.960 --> 00:48:08.760 game pad, there's a Virtual Boy exhibit. There's like they 1071 00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:10.199 don't shy away from the failures. 1072 00:48:10.239 --> 00:48:10.440 You know. 1073 00:48:10.519 --> 00:48:13.559 There there's we You, There's Virtual Boy. All that stuff 1074 00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:17.440 is there. So yeah, it's I'm curious. The thing I'm 1075 00:48:17.440 --> 00:48:21.440 curious about is like I realize what a specific experience 1076 00:48:21.480 --> 00:48:23.599 I had where it's like, Okay, I pretty much had 1077 00:48:23.599 --> 00:48:25.559 the place to myself. I was able to do all 1078 00:48:25.559 --> 00:48:27.840 of the interactive things where you know you'll have to 1079 00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:29.719 like pick and choose because it's on this like coin 1080 00:48:29.800 --> 00:48:30.840 system once it opens. 1081 00:48:31.599 --> 00:48:32.679 So I don't know. 1082 00:48:33.760 --> 00:48:36.079 I had the most ideal possible thing as a lifelong 1083 00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:39.920 Nintendo fan with this access. I do wonder once it comes, 1084 00:48:40.039 --> 00:48:43.440 once it's open, which is tomorrow, you know, if somebody 1085 00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:45.199 makes the whole hike out there, goes out to Kyoto 1086 00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:47.599 and all that, I wonder what the line situation is 1087 00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:49.360 going to be. Like, I wonder how people are gonna 1088 00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:51.920 feel about like the interactive things, which they were fun. 1089 00:48:52.079 --> 00:48:55.280 I like the interactive things some more than others. But 1090 00:48:55.519 --> 00:48:57.480 I don't know if it's a thing we're remember like 1091 00:48:57.480 --> 00:48:59.480 a Super Nintendo Land when we were there, yes, and 1092 00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:01.880 it's like, oh, okay, I would love to go do this. 1093 00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:04.400 Thing where Bous Junior stuff. Yeah, yeah, you try to hit. 1094 00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:05.920 A thing to get a blue coin or something like that, 1095 00:49:05.960 --> 00:49:07.719 but it's like an hour wait. It's like, okay, I'm 1096 00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:09.760 not I appreciate that they did this, but I'm not 1097 00:49:09.800 --> 00:49:12.760 waiting that long. I am wondering if the coin system, 1098 00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:14.880 which is like it loads up your pass with ten 1099 00:49:14.920 --> 00:49:16.679 coins when you go, and there's no way to like 1100 00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:20.360 earn more, so you go, you get ten coins per visit, 1101 00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:23.760 and so some of them, like that shooting gallery thing 1102 00:49:23.800 --> 00:49:26.800 from the direct is four coins, and actually I kind 1103 00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:28.880 of thought that was one of the weaker ones. You know, 1104 00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:30.639 if you want to do the big controller stuff you're 1105 00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:32.599 supposed to do with two people, it's two coins per 1106 00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:34.960 person per thing. So it's not like two coins to 1107 00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:36.559 get into the big controller room and you can just 1108 00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:38.599 go to town. It's like, okay, two coins to do 1109 00:49:38.639 --> 00:49:41.320 this link with the past challenge and your friend two coins. Okay, 1110 00:49:41.360 --> 00:49:43.480 you want to do a sixty four two coins for 1111 00:49:43.559 --> 00:49:45.880 each there, So like I wonder if that's a way 1112 00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:48.280 to try to keep things from getting too busy definitely, 1113 00:49:48.920 --> 00:49:51.639 you know, line wise and stuff like that. So yeah, 1114 00:49:51.800 --> 00:49:55.079 I'm curious to hear, you know, experiences from people that 1115 00:49:55.280 --> 00:49:56.480 didn't have this level of access. 1116 00:49:56.800 --> 00:50:00.039 Yeah, go ahead, Yeah, I was just gonna ask, like, like, 1117 00:50:01.039 --> 00:50:02.719 it doesn't seem like you're disappointed, but do you think 1118 00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:04.800 there's a chance of some people coming in to this 1119 00:50:04.840 --> 00:50:07.519 place will be like I wish this was even more 1120 00:50:07.639 --> 00:50:10.599 educational because it does seem like vibes based, like it 1121 00:50:10.639 --> 00:50:14.360 seems like they are trying to illustrate a feeling that 1122 00:50:14.360 --> 00:50:17.119 you're supposed to feel when you engage with Nintendo products, 1123 00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:18.880 and they're trying to capture that and put that in 1124 00:50:18.960 --> 00:50:22.119 a building, which I think is great for me, But 1125 00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:25.119 I also kind of would like like more displace like 1126 00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:28.679 explicitly explain the history of Nintendo. Do you think that 1127 00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:30.400 stuff's missing or do you think that this is just 1128 00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:31.679 a Nintendo way of doing things. 1129 00:50:31.800 --> 00:50:34.119 I think it fits with like Nintendo's whole philosophy. You know, 1130 00:50:34.159 --> 00:50:36.800 They've always been very big on just kind of play 1131 00:50:37.639 --> 00:50:40.159 and fun, and like I think that's very much. You know, 1132 00:50:40.239 --> 00:50:42.599 this is a playful type of museum. It's not one 1133 00:50:42.639 --> 00:50:44.559 where here's a room where you go sit down and 1134 00:50:44.599 --> 00:50:46.960 it's going to play a fifteen minute documentary or something 1135 00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:49.679 like that. And they have some stuff like that where 1136 00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:51.840 it's like, Okay, here's this plaque that explains what this 1137 00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:54.239 place was in the sixties, what this building did and 1138 00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:57.320 manufacture these cards. There's stuff where like in the in 1139 00:50:57.360 --> 00:51:00.400 the cafe, like they've got the palettes with the old 1140 00:51:00.440 --> 00:51:02.159 like Nintendo's stencils and stuff on. It's like, oh, this 1141 00:51:02.199 --> 00:51:03.880 is the palettes from when they were making on a fooda 1142 00:51:03.880 --> 00:51:06.320 cards and stuff like that. Like, there are elements of that, 1143 00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:08.920 but if that is the primary thing you want out 1144 00:51:08.920 --> 00:51:11.760 of this museum, there's not There's not a ton of that. 1145 00:51:12.559 --> 00:51:14.760 The most interesting part of that to me was seeing 1146 00:51:14.800 --> 00:51:17.400 all of the actual toys, because they have all of 1147 00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:20.800 these boxes and all the actual toys, and and above 1148 00:51:20.840 --> 00:51:21.280 it they have. 1149 00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:22.000 All the commercials. 1150 00:51:22.039 --> 00:51:23.920 So it was really cool watching like, oh, that's cool 1151 00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:27.039 commercials from the sixties of like these wacky Nintendo toys 1152 00:51:27.039 --> 00:51:28.880 that you know, you fly around your room or whatever. 1153 00:51:29.320 --> 00:51:30.559 So, yeah, I don't know. 1154 00:51:30.920 --> 00:51:34.840 For me, uh, I would I would rather see Nintendo 1155 00:51:34.880 --> 00:51:37.320 presented this way than like a bunch of like lengthy 1156 00:51:37.400 --> 00:51:39.199 plaques and documentaries and stuff like that. 1157 00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:41.280 Right, And like you said, I think it does fit. Sure, 1158 00:51:41.320 --> 00:51:43.239 I just want to stare at a Kickle cubicle box. 1159 00:51:43.039 --> 00:51:43.480 For a while. 1160 00:51:43.639 --> 00:51:46.440 Sure, And I want that. I want that for you. Yeah. 1161 00:51:46.519 --> 00:51:50.280 Yeah, folks, we've been running a little long. Let's go 1162 00:51:50.320 --> 00:51:52.480 take a quick breaking break and we'll we'll talk about 1163 00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:56.840 games and news in the same segment right after this 1164 00:52:00.119 --> 00:52:02.119 been so long talking about Nintendo that I want to 1165 00:52:02.119 --> 00:52:03.599 hear about another Nintendo game. 1166 00:52:04.199 --> 00:52:06.159 It's right, we're talking about video games now. On the 1167 00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:16.639 video Game Podcast. Here's here's my big problem. Gents. Yeah, 1168 00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:20.519 I think I've broken another switch. Dude, what is how? 1169 00:52:21.159 --> 00:52:23.679 You know what? It's the luscious hair. It gets in everything, 1170 00:52:23.719 --> 00:52:30.239 it's what it is. Fine, I just keep rubbing the 1171 00:52:30.280 --> 00:52:34.039 switch on my my hair off. Yeah, you know, I 1172 00:52:34.360 --> 00:52:37.039 comb my hair with the switch. Actually, it's actually very good. 1173 00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:41.280 I think I've bricked another switch. It's like dead. It's 1174 00:52:41.320 --> 00:52:46.000 like dead, like, uh, are you just specifically turning it 1175 00:52:46.039 --> 00:52:47.920 off when it's saving? Like what are you doing? No? 1176 00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:50.719 No, no, no, no, no, it's I let it sit in 1177 00:52:50.920 --> 00:52:54.360 its little dock for like maybe a week, picked it 1178 00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:56.719 back up to have a fire up. Zelda played it 1179 00:52:56.760 --> 00:52:59.559 fine and let me let it down over the weekend. 1180 00:52:59.599 --> 00:53:03.159 Not charge Jing picked it back up on Monday. It 1181 00:53:03.239 --> 00:53:04.760 was plugged in the whole time. 1182 00:53:05.960 --> 00:53:08.840 Charger. Yeah, I tried a different charge. 1183 00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:10.440 Do you have the official one? 1184 00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:13.559 Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Okay, try a cheap one. 1185 00:53:13.559 --> 00:53:17.199 Then I'll try a cheap one. I'll try. I'll you know, 1186 00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:20.519 the taco truck outside has saved me multiple times. Now, 1187 00:53:20.599 --> 00:53:24.559 maybe I'll just plug into their generator. Okay, there you go. Perfect. 1188 00:53:25.480 --> 00:53:28.199 I can't magically summon an item to help me. Fix 1189 00:53:28.199 --> 00:53:31.119 the situation. But Dan and Grub you have continued to 1190 00:53:31.159 --> 00:53:35.320 summon tables, beds, spiders, and uh the cool armadillo guy 1191 00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:36.400 to save you. 1192 00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:42.280 How Well, yeah. 1193 00:53:41.480 --> 00:53:43.519 You'll get attached to something for a little bit and 1194 00:53:43.559 --> 00:53:44.880 then it's like, oh wait no, now. 1195 00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:46.719 I I'll never use the bed again after getting the 1196 00:53:46.760 --> 00:53:47.360 water cube. 1197 00:53:47.480 --> 00:53:50.199 Like that dead to me. 1198 00:53:50.519 --> 00:53:57.559 Well, you use the bed to get your hearts. I 1199 00:53:57.639 --> 00:54:01.079 used to be all about trampolines. Yeah, I'm a trampoline over. 1200 00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:05.000 Bed guy on the water cube over trans a trampoline 1201 00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:06.239 over bed guy. 1202 00:54:07.400 --> 00:54:10.199 Now, well's the thing is, like, I okay, so yes, 1203 00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:14.239 this Zelda game is it has dungeons like Zelda typically does, 1204 00:54:14.280 --> 00:54:18.079 but since everything's based around these echoes, it's not like 1205 00:54:18.239 --> 00:54:19.679 it's not like here's the dungeon where you get the 1206 00:54:19.679 --> 00:54:20.880 hook shot, here's the one where you get a bow 1207 00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:24.639 and arrow. It's more like you will get certain echoes 1208 00:54:24.760 --> 00:54:26.199 that are like, oh this kind of changed this one. 1209 00:54:26.199 --> 00:54:28.320 You'll get a category of echoes yeah yeah. 1210 00:54:28.360 --> 00:54:29.920 Or here's here's a fish with a bomb in its 1211 00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:32.880 mouth and that's basically your bomb. Here's the yeah, the 1212 00:54:32.880 --> 00:54:35.119 bomb fish is school the tile that you can stand 1213 00:54:35.159 --> 00:54:37.840 on it. You know those tiles and like to the past. 1214 00:54:37.719 --> 00:54:40.760 Like the first legends all them the dungeon where you 1215 00:54:40.760 --> 00:54:42.280 walk in and they start zooming at you and you 1216 00:54:42.280 --> 00:54:45.000 can sword to break them. You can summon those and 1217 00:54:45.039 --> 00:54:47.159 stand on it and it will zoom you across the room. 1218 00:54:47.320 --> 00:54:49.119 Yeah, it's just like a little like coverboard that you 1219 00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:50.800 can go like. And so that's the thing, is like 1220 00:54:51.039 --> 00:54:53.199 they are bigger than the other ones. Yeah, sure you'll 1221 00:54:53.199 --> 00:54:54.840 get a bunch of different snakes and birds and stuff 1222 00:54:54.840 --> 00:54:56.880 like that. But then there's these ones that like open 1223 00:54:56.920 --> 00:54:58.119 the map up in a smart way. 1224 00:54:58.159 --> 00:55:00.519 Well, then that's the important part. Is the is open. 1225 00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:04.679 So you see a border between the desert biome and 1226 00:55:04.760 --> 00:55:07.800 the jungle biome, that's not a border. You can use 1227 00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:10.079 these items to jump over that, and then suddenly you're 1228 00:55:10.119 --> 00:55:13.079 just exploring the open world. And it is such a 1229 00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:15.440 cool feeling. That is so cool to the point where 1230 00:55:16.079 --> 00:55:18.760 I did started like messing around with summoning. Two things, 1231 00:55:18.760 --> 00:55:20.159 like if you summon a piece of meat or like 1232 00:55:20.239 --> 00:55:22.800 a dead fish, you'll notice that some of the guys 1233 00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:24.880 that you summon will just stare at the thing. And 1234 00:55:24.920 --> 00:55:26.760 so when you've been like capture them with your buying 1235 00:55:26.760 --> 00:55:28.960 tool and you'll be holding them and as you're moving around, 1236 00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:30.480 you just see them staring at the thing, which gets 1237 00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:32.800 you thinking like how can I combine these things? And 1238 00:55:32.840 --> 00:55:35.079 then I saw someone actually do like, Okay, if you 1239 00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:37.960 summon the bird and you bind them immediately, then you 1240 00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:40.280 turn around and summon a dead fish or a piece 1241 00:55:40.280 --> 00:55:42.440 of meat. I use the fish, and then you pick 1242 00:55:42.519 --> 00:55:45.280 up the fish, and then you hit the button so 1243 00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:47.760 that now you move along with how the bird wants 1244 00:55:47.760 --> 00:55:50.360 to move. The bird will chase the fish, and you'll 1245 00:55:50.360 --> 00:55:52.559 be able to fly across the world. And now I 1246 00:55:52.599 --> 00:55:55.519 am just like a zooming across the sky. This game. 1247 00:55:55.599 --> 00:55:56.519 That's incredible. 1248 00:55:56.519 --> 00:56:00.280 This game is awesome. It's so much better than I thought. 1249 00:56:00.280 --> 00:56:02.480 When I first say, you seem to bit like your niche, 1250 00:56:02.519 --> 00:56:06.159 I presson seemed a bit reserved, Jeff, Yes, and it was. 1251 00:56:06.239 --> 00:56:09.400 I wasn't fully understanding all of the possibilities. Part of 1252 00:56:09.400 --> 00:56:11.719 that is you're limited in the possibilities when you start. 1253 00:56:11.719 --> 00:56:15.159 And of course the big thing is combat's weird because 1254 00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:17.880 you're zeld in. You could only be. The link mode 1255 00:56:17.880 --> 00:56:19.239 really is what it is, but they call it the 1256 00:56:19.239 --> 00:56:22.400 Swordsman mode for like limit like ten seconds at the 1257 00:56:22.400 --> 00:56:24.199 most at the start that does, you can expand that 1258 00:56:24.280 --> 00:56:27.119 later on it becomes much more powerful. But so you're 1259 00:56:27.159 --> 00:56:28.440 not gonna be able to walk up everything and he 1260 00:56:28.559 --> 00:56:31.559 with your sword, which means you're summoning the weird moblins 1261 00:56:31.599 --> 00:56:34.039 that have the spears, and when you summon them, they're 1262 00:56:34.039 --> 00:56:36.599 the dumb idiot AI guys that take thirty seconds to 1263 00:56:36.639 --> 00:56:38.679 realize they even have something in their hands to throw. 1264 00:56:39.079 --> 00:56:41.000 So you're kind of like, how do I solve some 1265 00:56:41.039 --> 00:56:44.119 of these basic combat encounters? And that is something like 1266 00:56:44.159 --> 00:56:45.920 you just got to push through that because you will 1267 00:56:45.960 --> 00:56:48.480 come up with some cool solutions just by accident. You 1268 00:56:48.519 --> 00:56:51.519 get the bombfish. I was I'm throwing that bombfish at everybody. 1269 00:56:51.599 --> 00:56:53.599 That feels great. It's stupid because it's a fish with 1270 00:56:53.599 --> 00:56:56.960 a bomb in its mouth. But once I got of like, okay, 1271 00:56:56.960 --> 00:57:00.199 I'm just gonna go to these, they're like, oh, open 1272 00:57:00.239 --> 00:57:03.280 world dungeons kind of similar to Skyward Sword, where it's 1273 00:57:03.280 --> 00:57:04.760 like you're gonna go to an area, they're gonna give 1274 00:57:04.760 --> 00:57:06.280 you a bunch of puzzles to solve to get into 1275 00:57:06.320 --> 00:57:08.280 the dungeon, and then the dungeon itself is kind of 1276 00:57:08.320 --> 00:57:11.400 like a typical sella dungeon maybe a little bit smaller 1277 00:57:11.440 --> 00:57:13.400 because you've already done a lot of stuff leading up 1278 00:57:13.400 --> 00:57:16.320 to that. But I've also gotten off that beaten path, 1279 00:57:16.639 --> 00:57:18.880 and I am just like I want to just go 1280 00:57:19.119 --> 00:57:21.199 see what's out there. I do see this border, I'm 1281 00:57:21.239 --> 00:57:23.760 gonna jump over it using my trampolines or now the 1282 00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:25.800 water cube, and I'm just gonna go see what I 1283 00:57:25.800 --> 00:57:27.960 can find. And I'm getting all these other tools and 1284 00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:30.079 now taking that in and like having all these other 1285 00:57:30.079 --> 00:57:32.599 things I can use like a level three liss Alphos. 1286 00:57:32.840 --> 00:57:34.239 I did feel like in a dungeon. 1287 00:57:34.280 --> 00:57:36.079 I felt like a bad boy, Like I was using 1288 00:57:36.119 --> 00:57:37.760 a bird to kind of get through like a big 1289 00:57:37.760 --> 00:57:40.000 desert barrier that felt like I wasn't supposed to go to. 1290 00:57:40.039 --> 00:57:41.360 I didn't know about the meat things, so I was 1291 00:57:41.440 --> 00:57:42.719 just bound to this. 1292 00:57:42.719 --> 00:57:47.880 Bird kind of randomly for to fly where I wanted to. 1293 00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:49.760 But like then I let go, and you know, I 1294 00:57:49.760 --> 00:57:51.320 find a place to go to. And it's not so 1295 00:57:51.440 --> 00:57:54.280 much that there's a heart piece, but there's this character. 1296 00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:57.239 It's like it's basically like a swomp from Mario, but 1297 00:57:57.320 --> 00:57:59.239 the top as five as you can stand on it, 1298 00:57:59.239 --> 00:58:00.760 It's like, oh, I feel like I got this maybe 1299 00:58:00.800 --> 00:58:02.960 earlier than the game thinks like I would, and this 1300 00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:05.679 seems like a very useful item, and I just, you know, 1301 00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:08.280 it feels like I'm sequence breaking, even though I probably 1302 00:58:08.320 --> 00:58:10.639 am not, And that feels great. 1303 00:58:10.199 --> 00:58:13.960 Yes, better, because I'm pretty underwhelmed it's by this game. 1304 00:58:14.079 --> 00:58:16.159 So I was clear of that way for a while. 1305 00:58:16.199 --> 00:58:17.760 Like how many dungeons would you say you've done? 1306 00:58:17.920 --> 00:58:20.079 I'm on the second, I'm on the desert one right now. 1307 00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:22.199 Okay, okay, yes, that's after the desert one is when 1308 00:58:22.199 --> 00:58:23.159 it started picking up for me. 1309 00:58:23.320 --> 00:58:26.519 There were like three no spoilers, but like after like 1310 00:58:26.519 --> 00:58:28.559 a thing you have to do with hyroll Castle, like 1311 00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:30.039 that's kind of where I'm at now, where like side 1312 00:58:30.119 --> 00:58:32.000 quests and stuff are opening up, and like that's when 1313 00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:34.199 I really started liking it, because like the thing I 1314 00:58:34.320 --> 00:58:37.280 wasn't loving for the first few hours was this like 1315 00:58:37.599 --> 00:58:39.559 the process of like Okay, I got to go to 1316 00:58:39.679 --> 00:58:41.039 this desert place or I got to go to this 1317 00:58:41.079 --> 00:58:43.440 water place. And there's like a weird amount of talking 1318 00:58:43.559 --> 00:58:46.320 for a Zelda game, where it's like pretty frequently yeah, 1319 00:58:46.360 --> 00:58:47.800 and it's like okay, so I got to talk. There's 1320 00:58:47.800 --> 00:58:49.320 some problem going on with this village. I got to 1321 00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:50.559 go talk to a fish and you got to play 1322 00:58:50.559 --> 00:58:52.320 a harp or whatever. You know, it's just like a 1323 00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:53.039 lot of that stuff. 1324 00:58:53.119 --> 00:58:55.000 It's just got to save jazz, yeah, exactly. 1325 00:58:55.679 --> 00:58:57.639 And then you have to go into this like rift 1326 00:58:57.719 --> 00:58:59.639 and it's the same thing every time, where it's like, okay, 1327 00:58:59.639 --> 00:59:02.519 I got a find five of these shiny blobs or whatever, 1328 00:59:02.639 --> 00:59:04.480 and then I can go into the dungeon. I was 1329 00:59:04.880 --> 00:59:07.920 getting very bored with that loop of like, talk to 1330 00:59:07.960 --> 00:59:10.320 these characters I don't care about, do this thing that's 1331 00:59:10.360 --> 00:59:11.840 kind of the same thing every time, and then I 1332 00:59:11.840 --> 00:59:12.840 get to do a dungeon. 1333 00:59:12.679 --> 00:59:15.159 And every encounter along the way takes you twenty seconds 1334 00:59:15.199 --> 00:59:17.199 to be because you have to summon a thing hope 1335 00:59:17.239 --> 00:59:19.199 that the enemy actually attacks it. 1336 00:59:19.559 --> 00:59:21.079 Well, I was thinking with that too. 1337 00:59:21.639 --> 00:59:21.840 Well. 1338 00:59:21.880 --> 00:59:25.239 I started remembering things where it's like I forget that 1339 00:59:25.280 --> 00:59:27.000 I have that sword fighter thing, and that helps a 1340 00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:28.440 lot if you just go into a room with like 1341 00:59:28.719 --> 00:59:30.360 three or four enemies just sword fighter, and. 1342 00:59:30.760 --> 00:59:32.280 Then you run out of time and you're like, this 1343 00:59:32.320 --> 00:59:33.760 is not fun at all. I don't know, I don't 1344 00:59:33.760 --> 00:59:36.239 want to be too much of a bummer here, but yeah. 1345 00:59:35.920 --> 00:59:37.159 I had all these same prints too. 1346 00:59:37.320 --> 00:59:38.800 Yeah, I felt all these same things too, and then 1347 00:59:38.800 --> 00:59:41.280 I'll like remember the tools at her disposal where it's like, 1348 00:59:41.320 --> 00:59:43.239 oh right, I can just bind this fucker and drop 1349 00:59:43.320 --> 00:59:45.920 them over a cliff, you know, like that type of stuff. 1350 00:59:45.920 --> 00:59:48.199 Like there's you know, it's very easy to go into 1351 00:59:48.239 --> 00:59:50.800 normal Zelda mindset and just be like why I wish 1352 00:59:50.840 --> 00:59:52.599 I could just slash my sword at this guy, But 1353 00:59:52.679 --> 00:59:54.760 you forget that this is a different type of Zelda 1354 00:59:54.800 --> 00:59:56.639 game and you have different tools, and like, as I'm 1355 00:59:56.679 --> 00:59:58.840 kind of clicking with that, I'm enjoying it a lot more. 1356 00:59:58.920 --> 01:00:00.960 Plus it just opens up so much more like where 1357 01:00:01.039 --> 01:00:02.920 me and Greg are talking about, where it's like, Okay, 1358 01:00:02.960 --> 01:00:05.159 I'm actually enjoying this a lot more. These side quests 1359 01:00:05.159 --> 01:00:07.239 are very interesting. I've got a horse in an open 1360 01:00:07.280 --> 01:00:09.559 world Zelda game or in a top down Zelda game, 1361 01:00:09.559 --> 01:00:11.599 which is you know, m used to having happening on 1362 01:00:11.639 --> 01:00:12.320 the three D ones. 1363 01:00:12.360 --> 01:00:15.800 But yeah, I've been I'm in this like, uh, I 1364 01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:18.199 find myself frustrated with it. And also I'm playing this 1365 01:00:18.280 --> 01:00:20.599 other game than I am deeply in love with, but 1366 01:00:20.639 --> 01:00:23.039 embargoed on that is running on my Steam deck that 1367 01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:24.760 resembles Persona five. 1368 01:00:24.840 --> 01:00:30.079 Sure well because it sounds fantastical because I've drawn to that. 1369 01:00:30.760 --> 01:00:33.079 I'm also just kind of even more frustrated Zelda and 1370 01:00:33.079 --> 01:00:34.760 don'tant to play it. But but I'm glad to hear 1371 01:00:34.800 --> 01:00:36.440 it gets better because I will stick with it because 1372 01:00:36.440 --> 01:00:37.559 it's a freaking Zelda game. 1373 01:00:37.599 --> 01:00:38.199 I love Zelda. 1374 01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:42.400 Stamp Guy best News react in a while, love stamp Guy, 1375 01:00:42.519 --> 01:00:43.519 but I do that this one. 1376 01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:45.920 I appreciated the writing where they're like, it looks like 1377 01:00:45.960 --> 01:00:47.960 it's handmade, because it is like when you hands you 1378 01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:49.679 the stamp card and then you get to see it 1379 01:00:49.719 --> 01:00:51.400 and it's like it looks like dog shit, and I 1380 01:00:51.400 --> 01:00:52.920 love it. Yeah, yes, yeah. 1381 01:00:53.719 --> 01:00:55.400 A lot of quality of life stuff, like things on 1382 01:00:55.400 --> 01:00:56.679 the map that just kind of tell you like, here's 1383 01:00:56.679 --> 01:00:58.519 how many treasure tests you've got here, or heart pieces 1384 01:00:59.039 --> 01:01:00.800 you know it's got the like breath the wild tiers 1385 01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:02.719 of the Kingdom, like stamps on the map thing you 1386 01:01:02.719 --> 01:01:04.519 can do, which is nice in a top down one. 1387 01:01:05.119 --> 01:01:09.320 By the wayst log the waypoints, which felt like very 1388 01:01:09.440 --> 01:01:11.119 like they are funneling you to the next thing you're 1389 01:01:11.119 --> 01:01:13.639 supposed to be doing. Feel I really appreciate them. Once 1390 01:01:13.639 --> 01:01:15.880 I'm like, wait, I'm gonna go do my own thing instead, 1391 01:01:16.199 --> 01:01:17.719 and now when it is time when I feel like 1392 01:01:17.760 --> 01:01:19.719 getting back on the path, I know where to go 1393 01:01:19.760 --> 01:01:21.760 and I'm not lost, So it feels like this good 1394 01:01:21.800 --> 01:01:25.039 anchor to the main main quest when I do get 1395 01:01:25.079 --> 01:01:26.840 off to do and all this side stuff, which again 1396 01:01:27.119 --> 01:01:29.400 has been like completely changed the game for me, just 1397 01:01:29.440 --> 01:01:31.159 making me feel like I can go find my own 1398 01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:33.880 fund whenever I want. And yeah, that's when it really. 1399 01:01:33.719 --> 01:01:37.000 Clicked, so very more Breath of the wild ish and 1400 01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:37.719 it comes. 1401 01:01:38.199 --> 01:01:41.360 Yes, Yeah, at least it's evoking the same feelings. And 1402 01:01:41.519 --> 01:01:44.039 I wasn't expecting that. Actually, I was like kind of 1403 01:01:44.079 --> 01:01:47.239 thinking we would be more confined than like a link 1404 01:01:47.280 --> 01:01:50.159 between worlds, and it's like, no, it's actually way more 1405 01:01:50.159 --> 01:01:51.199 open than even that was. 1406 01:01:51.639 --> 01:01:53.960 And getting around the map is like it's a big map, 1407 01:01:54.039 --> 01:01:58.159 and the quantity and ease of like warp points is 1408 01:01:58.599 --> 01:02:00.400 very nice, even with in dungeons and things like that. 1409 01:02:00.440 --> 01:02:02.519 Yea. And then they kind of put the main things 1410 01:02:02.519 --> 01:02:05.199 that are going to happen near those warp points. So 1411 01:02:05.239 --> 01:02:07.079 if you are doing one of these main quests that 1412 01:02:07.079 --> 01:02:09.599 has you going back and forth and talking to one 1413 01:02:09.679 --> 01:02:11.519 kind of Zora and then the other kind of Zora, 1414 01:02:11.679 --> 01:02:13.840 and now they're like Okay, well we're going here because 1415 01:02:13.840 --> 01:02:16.360 we're still fighting and you got to come here and 1416 01:02:16.360 --> 01:02:18.360 talk to us there. It's like, well, no, just warp 1417 01:02:18.400 --> 01:02:20.800 there and we'll be right in that next room and 1418 01:02:20.840 --> 01:02:22.199 talk to us. And it kind of makes it all 1419 01:02:22.199 --> 01:02:23.800 pretty easy and go buy pretty fast. 1420 01:02:24.199 --> 01:02:25.920 So how do you guys deal with the fact that 1421 01:02:25.960 --> 01:02:28.800 when you open up the echo, I don't Therefore I 1422 01:02:28.840 --> 01:02:29.400 hit the star. 1423 01:02:29.320 --> 01:02:32.079 Button of them? Okay, do you hit the star button 1424 01:02:32.119 --> 01:02:33.519 and just go right to the journal and then you 1425 01:02:33.559 --> 01:02:35.400 get the grid? This is something we discovered in the 1426 01:02:35.440 --> 01:02:36.239 line you've been doing. 1427 01:02:36.360 --> 01:02:37.760 Okay, I know you can do that, but I didn't 1428 01:02:37.760 --> 01:02:38.960 think about that being easier. 1429 01:02:39.039 --> 01:02:40.679 That's the main way of doing it for me at 1430 01:02:40.679 --> 01:02:43.119 this point, because if I have the line, it's so 1431 01:02:43.239 --> 01:02:44.840 big that by the time I get to the end 1432 01:02:45.159 --> 01:02:47.400 my terrible memory, I forget what was at the beginning. 1433 01:02:47.519 --> 01:02:49.400 So I'm like, God, what did I even come here for? 1434 01:02:49.639 --> 01:02:52.440 So can't you start a favorite spar like a bar 1435 01:02:52.559 --> 01:02:53.119 that is just. 1436 01:02:53.119 --> 01:02:55.920 The there's most used, which I I default the most used, 1437 01:02:55.960 --> 01:02:57.159 And it's like, all right, I'm always gonna have the 1438 01:02:57.199 --> 01:02:58.960 water cube, is always gonna have the bomb. All these 1439 01:02:59.039 --> 01:03:00.480 obvious ones, the one that lights fire. 1440 01:03:00.679 --> 01:03:02.239 You just got to change the filter. Yeah. 1441 01:03:02.320 --> 01:03:04.119 Yeah, but then it's like I'll kill a cool new 1442 01:03:04.239 --> 01:03:05.960 enemy and have this new ability, but like it'll be 1443 01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:07.760 tucked all the way in the back and I'll forget 1444 01:03:07.800 --> 01:03:08.239 that's there. 1445 01:03:08.519 --> 01:03:10.639 So I think the start menu is organized pretty well 1446 01:03:10.639 --> 01:03:12.519 where it's like here's the stuff that kind of catches 1447 01:03:12.559 --> 01:03:15.360 on fire, and here's the furniture, and here's the water stuff. 1448 01:03:15.679 --> 01:03:17.719 So it's just like visually, it's just very easy to 1449 01:03:17.800 --> 01:03:21.199 jump for one category to the other. And if you 1450 01:03:21.360 --> 01:03:23.360 kind of use that menu frequently when you hit start, 1451 01:03:23.360 --> 01:03:24.920 you'll just go right back to there. And then of 1452 01:03:24.960 --> 01:03:26.400 course if you do want to go to other stuff 1453 01:03:26.400 --> 01:03:27.639 on that men, you're going to have to go back. 1454 01:03:27.679 --> 01:03:30.360 But ninety five percent of the time I hit start, 1455 01:03:30.440 --> 01:03:32.280 that's the menu I'm at. I can find the thing 1456 01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:35.119 very quickly. It's much easier to navigate that way. Now. 1457 01:03:35.280 --> 01:03:36.760 I think there's a argument to be met to be 1458 01:03:36.800 --> 01:03:40.480 made that the when you hit the LB it should 1459 01:03:40.559 --> 01:03:42.199 just kind of have a menu like that. There should 1460 01:03:42.239 --> 01:03:45.679 be a grid instead of the long line. But hey, whatever, at. 1461 01:03:45.679 --> 01:03:48.559 Least they have this solution making so many smoothies. 1462 01:03:49.159 --> 01:03:52.119 Oh yeah, yes, And like the sort of meta game 1463 01:03:52.239 --> 01:03:55.639 of make ten recipes for me, it's like, oh, I'm 1464 01:03:55.639 --> 01:03:57.480 gonna make the I want to make these smoothies now 1465 01:03:57.480 --> 01:03:59.440 because I can get this reward if I do that, 1466 01:03:59.519 --> 01:04:01.639 and now I have to make thirty smoothies, and then 1467 01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:04.639 by byproduct of that, I am full of smoothies in 1468 01:04:04.719 --> 01:04:07.079 my inventory, so that when I am occasionally in a 1469 01:04:07.119 --> 01:04:08.960 situation where it's a little bit more dangerous and I 1470 01:04:08.960 --> 01:04:11.199 do feel like maybe I'm gonna die, I have plenty 1471 01:04:11.199 --> 01:04:13.440 of things to get me life, or to make me 1472 01:04:13.480 --> 01:04:16.960 swim faster, or stay under water longer, or be immune 1473 01:04:16.960 --> 01:04:19.320 to electricity. When you come across to a boss that 1474 01:04:19.400 --> 01:04:22.039 uses that it's their main attack, it's like, oh, okay, fantastic, 1475 01:04:22.079 --> 01:04:24.920 I'm actually using these smoothies. Where in a typical game 1476 01:04:24.920 --> 01:04:26.440 where it's like, hey, if you want to think about that, 1477 01:04:26.559 --> 01:04:28.599 go do that before you come to this room, and 1478 01:04:28.639 --> 01:04:30.400 now you have it, it's like you don't have to. 1479 01:04:30.559 --> 01:04:33.079 The game is kind of encouraging to encourage you, encouraging 1480 01:04:33.079 --> 01:04:35.920 you to experiment with the smoothie system before you even 1481 01:04:35.960 --> 01:04:41.119 think about needing a failing me. The Princess Zelda is juicing. Yeah, 1482 01:04:41.119 --> 01:04:41.760 I was gonna. 1483 01:04:41.519 --> 01:04:42.880 Say, you have to get careful because if you have 1484 01:04:42.880 --> 01:04:45.079 too many smoothies, she gets way too small, and then 1485 01:04:45.239 --> 01:04:49.000 you just cannot beat the game because she just crushes 1486 01:04:49.000 --> 01:04:49.519 her staff. 1487 01:04:49.599 --> 01:04:53.000 Yeah off the drug test too. Yeah it's bad for her. Yeah. Absolutely. 1488 01:04:53.239 --> 01:04:55.840 I feel like we all had a me Grub and Jason. 1489 01:04:55.880 --> 01:04:57.920 I feel like we've had similar experiences where we were 1490 01:04:57.920 --> 01:05:00.880 a little underwhelmed, like in the earlier part, and then Jason, 1491 01:05:00.920 --> 01:05:03.079 I wonder if you're gonna have a similar turn where 1492 01:05:03.079 --> 01:05:05.159 it's like, Okay, actually really enjoying this more. 1493 01:05:05.320 --> 01:05:08.199 I think you enjoy it more will whether or not 1494 01:05:08.199 --> 01:05:09.559 you like it as much as we do. I think 1495 01:05:09.599 --> 01:05:11.360 that's to be open to most people. But it seems 1496 01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:12.920 like most people kind of got to this point before 1497 01:05:12.960 --> 01:05:14.880 we did. Dan, everyone seems to like this game. 1498 01:05:14.920 --> 01:05:17.280 I mean, I just feel like it feels like the 1499 01:05:17.320 --> 01:05:19.199 combat is wasting my time, and I hate it when 1500 01:05:19.239 --> 01:05:20.920 deans feel they're wasting my time, Like it feels like 1501 01:05:20.960 --> 01:05:22.480 it's wasting my time to have to go into my 1502 01:05:22.519 --> 01:05:25.159 inventory pick up something, figure out how to beat the enemy, 1503 01:05:25.159 --> 01:05:27.880 like where I should just be slashing enemies. My initial 1504 01:05:27.880 --> 01:05:29.840 impression was like, man, this would be so cool if 1505 01:05:29.840 --> 01:05:32.400 it was just a puzzle. Game, and there was no 1506 01:05:32.559 --> 01:05:35.840 overworld encounters because those are such a waste of everybody's 1507 01:05:35.920 --> 01:05:39.519 like why am I doing this? But maybe as I 1508 01:05:39.599 --> 01:05:42.400 play more, I'll feel differently. I don't know, yeah, just 1509 01:05:42.800 --> 01:05:45.679 it's tedious for me. So far, it's been very tedious. 1510 01:05:45.920 --> 01:05:48.840 Yeah, I think kind of learning the handful of things. 1511 01:05:48.880 --> 01:05:51.199 It's like, in this situation, this, this enemy that I 1512 01:05:51.199 --> 01:05:52.920 could summon is going to be very useful, and it's 1513 01:05:52.960 --> 01:05:54.960 right there my most used So I'm just gonna bring 1514 01:05:54.960 --> 01:05:56.679 it back out. Or I'm just gonna throw this bomb 1515 01:05:56.920 --> 01:05:59.159 and it's gonna explode while I'm off doing something else 1516 01:05:59.199 --> 01:06:00.880 and it's gonna kill those It's kind of how most 1517 01:06:00.880 --> 01:06:02.559 of these encounters are going for me right now, and 1518 01:06:02.880 --> 01:06:06.639 it's kind of become a non factor. Awesome. Awesome. 1519 01:06:07.880 --> 01:06:10.239 A game that is incredibly similar to Echoes of Wisdom, 1520 01:06:10.679 --> 01:06:13.239 actually not at all is a game I've been playing 1521 01:06:13.400 --> 01:06:18.039 called kill Night. The developers are touting this game as 1522 01:06:18.079 --> 01:06:22.760 a Hades meets Doom game, and I see the similarities 1523 01:06:22.760 --> 01:06:25.400 and I think y'all would really dig this. I would 1524 01:06:25.480 --> 01:06:32.679 describe this as Gothic satan cyberpunk. In the look of it, 1525 01:06:32.679 --> 01:06:36.119 it's a you have a whole lot of tools. 1526 01:06:36.159 --> 01:06:37.199 It is basically a. 1527 01:06:39.639 --> 01:06:43.639 Survival game, not a survival game, but wave based survival 1528 01:06:43.679 --> 01:06:46.119 game where you are just taking on a flood of 1529 01:06:46.239 --> 01:06:50.800 enemies constantly. It is a constant brage of just little 1530 01:06:50.840 --> 01:06:55.079 spider things and demons constantly trying to get you, and 1531 01:06:55.119 --> 01:06:58.480 you have several weapons at your disposal. You have a 1532 01:06:58.519 --> 01:07:01.760 set of pistols that you're constantly shooting off an active reload. 1533 01:07:02.159 --> 01:07:05.039 You get a shotgun that you refill the AMMO by 1534 01:07:05.199 --> 01:07:08.599 using a sword to hack and slash at folks, and 1535 01:07:08.639 --> 01:07:13.079 then you're also ony musha styling sucking the souls of 1536 01:07:13.079 --> 01:07:16.920 all these demons once you defeat them, to charge up 1537 01:07:16.960 --> 01:07:21.079 a spectral cannon that refills your health as you kill 1538 01:07:21.119 --> 01:07:24.559 more enemies with it and is incredibly punishing. There's three 1539 01:07:24.559 --> 01:07:28.320 difficulties right from the jump, and I can't stop playing it, 1540 01:07:28.719 --> 01:07:32.079 and it's hurting my eyeballs as I play it because 1541 01:07:32.079 --> 01:07:37.039 it's just so deeply entrenched into its style. It's funny 1542 01:07:37.079 --> 01:07:40.159 because they totally recommend from the jump, like, hey, just 1543 01:07:40.760 --> 01:07:42.760 set it out of the easiest divility just so you 1544 01:07:42.760 --> 01:07:45.559 can learn the game. Also, you should one hundred percent 1545 01:07:45.639 --> 01:07:48.920 play the tutorial otherwise you're going to be absolutely lost. 1546 01:07:49.960 --> 01:07:54.400 Because they introduce mechanics where there's also a pairing system. 1547 01:07:54.440 --> 01:07:58.000 There's also a remote detonating system in the game where 1548 01:07:58.679 --> 01:08:01.360 you have to use your spectrum can at the right 1549 01:08:01.519 --> 01:08:04.400 time to fire off at a specific enemy, and once 1550 01:08:04.559 --> 01:08:08.599 you hit that enemy, they will remotely detonate and blow 1551 01:08:08.679 --> 01:08:11.920 up a bunch of other enemies. And there's also a 1552 01:08:11.960 --> 01:08:14.079 combo meter going on at the same time of like, 1553 01:08:14.159 --> 01:08:15.920 all right, you got to keep killing all these mobs. 1554 01:08:15.920 --> 01:08:20.279 You got to keep going constantly. It is just sensory 1555 01:08:20.359 --> 01:08:25.199 overload in the best way possible. And as you complete 1556 01:08:25.239 --> 01:08:28.079 each run or die in each run, you're progressing and 1557 01:08:28.560 --> 01:08:31.640 you have a set of objectives like kill nine hundred 1558 01:08:31.640 --> 01:08:35.199 and ninety nine enemies in one run with your pistols 1559 01:08:35.279 --> 01:08:41.439 or your overcharged pistols, and once you complete that objective, 1560 01:08:41.560 --> 01:08:46.199 you have the ability with the points you're making each 1561 01:08:46.239 --> 01:08:50.680 each run to unlock modifiers or upgraded versions of your weapons. 1562 01:08:51.239 --> 01:08:53.840 The active reload. They do something very smart with it, 1563 01:08:53.880 --> 01:08:57.920 where you could hit the shoot button to do the 1564 01:08:57.920 --> 01:09:01.680 active reload and you'd get an up graded mini burst 1565 01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:05.800 of your pistol fire. But instead, if you want, if 1566 01:09:05.840 --> 01:09:09.039 you see a bunch of the demon Gem souls around 1567 01:09:09.359 --> 01:09:12.079 and you need to suck really fast, and it also 1568 01:09:12.119 --> 01:09:14.560 times out that you need to hit your active reload. 1569 01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:18.000 You hit the soul suck button and then you automatically 1570 01:09:18.039 --> 01:09:20.840 consume all of them around you in the immediate vicinity. 1571 01:09:21.399 --> 01:09:25.520 Or say you're in a bind and you hit the 1572 01:09:25.560 --> 01:09:29.039 active reload, but you hit your sword instead, you do 1573 01:09:29.119 --> 01:09:32.319 an upgraded sword attack. The parry's also really sick. This 1574 01:09:32.359 --> 01:09:35.159 whole game is just sick out the wazoo. It looks 1575 01:09:35.560 --> 01:09:38.520 it makes me feel some type of way kill night. 1576 01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:41.399 I believe it's coming out later this week. 1577 01:09:42.279 --> 01:09:45.079 It's it's out tomorrow. It is a good name. It's 1578 01:09:45.079 --> 01:09:49.439 out tomorrow on Steam. It says October two jan is it. 1579 01:09:49.439 --> 01:09:50.600 It's not dual stick? It is? 1580 01:09:50.680 --> 01:09:52.920 It is like Haites right, it's it's kind of dual 1581 01:09:52.920 --> 01:09:55.720 stick because with your right analog stick you're aiming your 1582 01:09:55.720 --> 01:09:56.319 guns with it. 1583 01:09:56.720 --> 01:09:59.560 Okay, so okah, all right, that sounds even. 1584 01:09:59.399 --> 01:10:02.640 Better to constantly be moving as well. I made a 1585 01:10:02.640 --> 01:10:04.800 mistake of like, oh, I'm just gonna sit here and 1586 01:10:04.840 --> 01:10:07.960 shoot my weapons off, and like I was immediately getting swamped. 1587 01:10:07.960 --> 01:10:11.479 So you constantly have to be moving. You have to 1588 01:10:11.479 --> 01:10:15.000 be using all of your weapons all the time. Uh, 1589 01:10:15.279 --> 01:10:18.760 it's it is not a game to unwind and relax. 1590 01:10:18.520 --> 01:10:21.600 To as I mean, they describe it on Steam as 1591 01:10:21.600 --> 01:10:24.079 a bullet hell and that sounds like what you're describing 1592 01:10:24.159 --> 01:10:26.039 and and yeah, I think you're right. Looks very much 1593 01:10:26.079 --> 01:10:26.920 like Haiti's me to do. 1594 01:10:27.640 --> 01:10:31.680 That's exactly Vampire Survivors, aside from the whole auto attacking thing, 1595 01:10:31.720 --> 01:10:33.520 just seeing how many enemies there are and how much 1596 01:10:33.520 --> 01:10:34.159 you're dodging. 1597 01:10:34.680 --> 01:10:37.640 Yeah, like Smash TV is also like a people. 1598 01:10:40.279 --> 01:10:42.600 That's what they'd say to me if I brought up 1599 01:10:42.640 --> 01:10:43.119 Smash TV. 1600 01:10:43.239 --> 01:10:47.359 I want you to know how weird? Okay. 1601 01:10:48.159 --> 01:10:51.359 Also just a fantastic, fantastic name of a game. I 1602 01:10:51.399 --> 01:10:54.159 just wind up saying to myself as I'm playing with 1603 01:10:55.720 --> 01:10:59.399 a K with a K. Yes, yes, another game that 1604 01:10:59.479 --> 01:11:02.239 has been occupying a lot of our times and it's. 1605 01:11:02.239 --> 01:11:07.159 A bunch of games is UFO fifty Yep. Yeah I 1606 01:11:07.159 --> 01:11:10.279 played this now? Yeah, how do you fratulations Mike? 1607 01:11:10.359 --> 01:11:10.800 I did it. 1608 01:11:10.840 --> 01:11:12.800 I was like I got over my like being grumpy 1609 01:11:12.880 --> 01:11:17.560 that is not on switch and just bought it very 1610 01:11:17.560 --> 01:11:21.359 good on the stand deck too, yea or rag Alley. 1611 01:11:21.399 --> 01:11:23.640 Actually I got I got a rock Ally X and 1612 01:11:24.279 --> 01:11:26.680 installing stuff on it. But I'm pretty excited about that 1613 01:11:26.680 --> 01:11:29.600 because I love my old rock ally But uh yeah, 1614 01:11:29.600 --> 01:11:31.159 this is pretty great. I was just kind of going 1615 01:11:31.159 --> 01:11:35.159 through games chronologically, not trying to, you know, beat all 1616 01:11:35.199 --> 01:11:37.319 of them, but they're just something that would naturally stick 1617 01:11:37.359 --> 01:11:40.359 with longer. I was surprisingly into paint Chase early on, 1618 01:11:40.399 --> 01:11:40.800 which is. 1619 01:11:40.760 --> 01:11:42.439 Like, yeah, I like paint Chase. You were good at that. 1620 01:11:42.520 --> 01:11:43.680 That was impressed by that. 1621 01:11:43.800 --> 01:11:46.760 That was the first one. Yeah, there were something I 1622 01:11:46.760 --> 01:11:49.479 definitely bounced off of pretty quick, and Paint Chase was 1623 01:11:49.800 --> 01:11:51.119 like the first one where I was like, oh, I 1624 01:11:51.119 --> 01:11:52.960 actually want to see how far I can get them against. 1625 01:11:53.000 --> 01:11:54.520 Like a game where you're playing as a car, there 1626 01:11:54.560 --> 01:11:57.560 are enemies that are painting the floor red, you're painting 1627 01:11:57.760 --> 01:12:00.720 your color. You need to basically chase them and kill them. 1628 01:12:00.880 --> 01:12:02.439 So you want to stop them from painting the floor, 1629 01:12:02.479 --> 01:12:04.520 and while you're doing that, you're covering the floor. And 1630 01:12:04.520 --> 01:12:06.079 at the end you want to have at least fifty percent, 1631 01:12:06.079 --> 01:12:08.600 although there are some like I guess Boss levels where 1632 01:12:08.640 --> 01:12:10.720 it's like you need to have seventy five percent on 1633 01:12:10.760 --> 01:12:13.359 this level and it gets gets pretty challenging. 1634 01:12:13.720 --> 01:12:15.399 It's my favorite is Attack Tricks. 1635 01:12:15.560 --> 01:12:16.840 You guys played Attack Tricks? 1636 01:12:16.880 --> 01:12:17.600 Oh, I'm not. 1637 01:12:17.800 --> 01:12:20.199 Yeah, that's that's the one where you put the guys 1638 01:12:20.239 --> 01:12:22.439 in the columns right like in the rows, and then 1639 01:12:22.479 --> 01:12:24.319 you gotta line them up and defend your castle. 1640 01:12:24.399 --> 01:12:28.520 Right. Yep, I beat that one, superfeated okay, super fun level. 1641 01:12:28.560 --> 01:12:30.640 Oh I did do this one? Yes, yes, yes, okay, 1642 01:12:30.760 --> 01:12:31.640 that's not really one. Yeah. 1643 01:12:31.680 --> 01:12:33.079 Have you guys beaten any of the other ones, because 1644 01:12:33.199 --> 01:12:35.159 the only ones I've beaten so far off Barbada the 1645 01:12:35.319 --> 01:12:39.279 very first game. Wow, yeah, yeah it was. It was 1646 01:12:39.359 --> 01:12:42.079 like a sort of I kind of accidentally locked in, 1647 01:12:42.079 --> 01:12:43.720 which will happen to me sometimes where it's like I 1648 01:12:44.000 --> 01:12:46.520 don't love this, but I'm like, I'm I've already learned 1649 01:12:46.520 --> 01:12:48.159 two things and I'm not going to let that go 1650 01:12:48.239 --> 01:12:50.479 to waste. So I'm like, I'll just keep hitting my 1651 01:12:50.479 --> 01:12:52.439 head against this wall. And I found like the one 1652 01:12:52.439 --> 01:12:53.840 thing where it's like, oh this love is not really 1653 01:12:53.880 --> 01:12:54.479 a lot, but the. 1654 01:12:54.479 --> 01:12:56.399 First one the first one I want to beat, so 1655 01:12:56.399 --> 01:12:58.239 I played more and I did really like it. But 1656 01:12:58.319 --> 01:13:00.840 right after that is velgris the one we're just kind 1657 01:13:00.840 --> 01:13:03.399 of jumping upwards the whole time, and it kind of 1658 01:13:03.439 --> 01:13:06.680 reminds me of that one Metroid Nintended World Championship Challenge 1659 01:13:06.720 --> 01:13:08.119 that we were all playing for a while. I don't 1660 01:13:08.119 --> 01:13:11.039 know why Belgris really speaks to me. It's been my 1661 01:13:11.079 --> 01:13:12.039 favorite one so far. 1662 01:13:12.720 --> 01:13:14.920 I also be the Pilot Quest, which is the clicker 1663 01:13:14.960 --> 01:13:15.520 IDOL game. 1664 01:13:15.600 --> 01:13:16.279 I started that. 1665 01:13:16.760 --> 01:13:21.239 You should definitely started. It's addictive immediately. Apparently I did. 1666 01:13:21.359 --> 01:13:23.439 I just played it. I raw dogged it. Apparently you 1667 01:13:23.439 --> 01:13:25.119 can let it run in the background while you're playing 1668 01:13:25.119 --> 01:13:29.199 other games. I guess, so like moon Sharks whatever. 1669 01:13:29.239 --> 01:13:31.720 Play it first, so it starts running for you. 1670 01:13:31.960 --> 01:13:33.119 I didn't know what's going now. 1671 01:13:35.000 --> 01:13:40.359 While you're playing. I wonder if I have a bunch 1672 01:13:40.359 --> 01:13:41.880 of shit, Okay, that'd be great. Yeah, But that that 1673 01:13:42.000 --> 01:13:43.800 was like I'm like, oh man, okay. But I just 1674 01:13:44.119 --> 01:13:46.079 mainlined it and played the whole thing until I beat it, 1675 01:13:46.119 --> 01:13:47.479 and that was that was a lot of fun, as. 1676 01:13:47.439 --> 01:13:49.239 Soon as you realize like, oh, I can plant these 1677 01:13:49.279 --> 01:13:51.520 trees and just like yeah, they're popping off there, and 1678 01:13:51.560 --> 01:13:53.079 it's like, okay, that feels very very good. 1679 01:13:53.079 --> 01:13:55.479 Exactly. You played an IDOL game before. 1680 01:13:55.319 --> 01:13:58.000 Dan, Was that an adventure capitalist game? 1681 01:13:58.359 --> 01:13:59.560 Oh? Sure, okay, yes, I like that. 1682 01:14:00.000 --> 01:14:02.159 I've done a couple of years. Assistance tapped out that 1683 01:14:02.199 --> 01:14:03.359 seems like maybe you would like. 1684 01:14:05.199 --> 01:14:06.840 Game after twelve years. 1685 01:14:06.920 --> 01:14:09.479 Yeah, yeah, not not a ton, but enough to see 1686 01:14:09.479 --> 01:14:12.960 how it goes. Yeah, Oh, how many moon shirts I haven't. 1687 01:14:13.359 --> 01:14:15.520 It's a man, It's just so much fun going through 1688 01:14:15.560 --> 01:14:15.920 these things. 1689 01:14:16.000 --> 01:14:18.760 Kick Club was very much my alley because it's basically 1690 01:14:18.840 --> 01:14:21.800 bubble bobble and that's like a game I associate with 1691 01:14:21.800 --> 01:14:23.720 the NS as much as anything. I played a ton 1692 01:14:23.760 --> 01:14:25.520 of that back then, and like I was, I had 1693 01:14:25.520 --> 01:14:27.239 a great time playing it the first time, playing it 1694 01:14:27.279 --> 01:14:29.960 for a couple hours, and I got through like eleven 1695 01:14:30.439 --> 01:14:33.399 or twelve of the fifty games, and it does seem 1696 01:14:33.439 --> 01:14:36.279 like it's not like they necessarily just get better as 1697 01:14:36.279 --> 01:14:38.439 you get for long, but they become a bit more complex, 1698 01:14:38.479 --> 01:14:42.439 a bit prettier because it is chronological. So I don't know, 1699 01:14:42.479 --> 01:14:45.479 I'm just like so excited to see these other thirty 1700 01:14:45.520 --> 01:14:47.119 eight games and how many other ones here? 1701 01:14:47.119 --> 01:14:48.000 I'm really gonna dig. 1702 01:14:48.479 --> 01:14:50.680 What's gonna your mind is when you get when you 1703 01:14:50.680 --> 01:14:52.600 get towards the end, you're kind of like, oh my god, 1704 01:14:52.600 --> 01:14:53.960 how much did they put in here? And then you 1705 01:14:54.000 --> 01:14:56.399 discover a full on j RPG. 1706 01:14:56.439 --> 01:14:58.560 Yeah, have you played that one? I was. I've been 1707 01:14:58.600 --> 01:15:00.319 like wondering putting one back in that. 1708 01:15:00.600 --> 01:15:03.239 I mean, the problem is it came out when there 1709 01:15:03.279 --> 01:15:05.760 was a lot of other stuff coming out, So I imagine 1710 01:15:05.600 --> 01:15:07.880 I'll be revisiting you for fifty a lot in the 1711 01:15:08.079 --> 01:15:10.439 like months to come to check out games like that. 1712 01:15:10.479 --> 01:15:11.920 And I also I really want to play that point 1713 01:15:11.920 --> 01:15:15.439 and click adventure like shadow Gate style game. 1714 01:15:15.600 --> 01:15:18.479 Oh yeah, that just came out, right, Yeah, no, the 1715 01:15:18.479 --> 01:15:18.720 one in. 1716 01:15:20.960 --> 01:15:23.359 Adventure that's kind of like modeled after the ane scheme 1717 01:15:23.399 --> 01:15:27.399 shadow Gate where it's like it's like your mansion or something. 1718 01:15:27.479 --> 01:15:28.319 I forget exactly what. 1719 01:15:29.199 --> 01:15:30.760 Literally, it's just a new shadow Gate that came out 1720 01:15:30.800 --> 01:15:32.119 that's based on in the n S sequel. 1721 01:15:32.199 --> 01:15:34.039 Oh yeah, that's yeah, that's all the other things. 1722 01:15:34.079 --> 01:15:39.479 Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, not enough moon drops. 1723 01:15:39.479 --> 01:15:40.640 So I got to de pluged it and now I've 1724 01:15:40.640 --> 01:15:45.079 got it running in the background on podcast Crypto Minor. 1725 01:15:45.119 --> 01:15:47.920 Now you're just sucking up energy you can get exactly. 1726 01:15:51.319 --> 01:15:55.079 I have never really encountered any of the meta stuff 1727 01:15:55.119 --> 01:15:58.840 beyond like reading the descriptions of the games, though people 1728 01:15:59.239 --> 01:16:02.000 keep hinting that there's maybe more there, but I'm like 1729 01:16:02.119 --> 01:16:04.560 still not sure. How I'm going to come across that. 1730 01:16:04.880 --> 01:16:06.439 And I'm like at a point where do I let 1731 01:16:06.439 --> 01:16:08.720 that try to happen naturally or do I seek it 1732 01:16:08.720 --> 01:16:10.319 out and just try to force it to happen so 1733 01:16:10.359 --> 01:16:13.000 I don't miss it. And I'm kind of leaning towards 1734 01:16:13.079 --> 01:16:15.000 letting it happen naturally and if I never see it, 1735 01:16:15.039 --> 01:16:16.760 oh well, and then a certain point I'll go look 1736 01:16:16.760 --> 01:16:18.880 it up. The reddit threads about the people who did 1737 01:16:18.920 --> 01:16:22.560 find everything, But have you guys seen anything beyond that? 1738 01:16:22.920 --> 01:16:26.560 Yeah? There, it turns out there are fifty more games. No, 1739 01:16:26.600 --> 01:16:31.119 I'm just kidding. That's Freshnick's Freshnick like said that to me, 1740 01:16:31.159 --> 01:16:32.039 do it I believed about? 1741 01:16:32.239 --> 01:16:33.920 Yeah? I bought you. 1742 01:16:33.960 --> 01:16:36.720 No, it's there's a terminal. You guys have seen the term. 1743 01:16:37.039 --> 01:16:38.319 A terminal, and I don't know what to do with it. 1744 01:16:38.560 --> 01:16:40.800 There's like codes you can enter and you can unlock 1745 01:16:40.880 --> 01:16:43.600 all sorts of crazy stuff. I actually have message Derek you, 1746 01:16:44.079 --> 01:16:46.720 who's lead designer also known as the designer of Splunky 1747 01:16:46.800 --> 01:16:50.640 and Right Muster games, and he was like, yeah, there's 1748 01:16:50.680 --> 01:16:52.600 there's some stuff going on there. It'll be interesting to 1749 01:16:52.600 --> 01:16:56.000 see like when people discover it all, which is pretty wild. 1750 01:16:56.000 --> 01:16:58.359 It feels like between this and Animal. Well, like the 1751 01:16:58.399 --> 01:17:02.319 meta the meta secrets games are having a moment this year. 1752 01:17:02.399 --> 01:17:03.920 It's the year of Metal. 1753 01:17:03.800 --> 01:17:06.520 Hill Fish likes. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, people love that. 1754 01:17:06.680 --> 01:17:09.000 Yesterday last year was the year of metaverse and nobody 1755 01:17:09.000 --> 01:17:13.039 wanted that. But meta gaming we're okay with. 1756 01:17:13.600 --> 01:17:16.159 Yeah, it's it's it continues to be a very cool 1757 01:17:16.199 --> 01:17:19.720 thing that I'm impressed by and having a good time with, 1758 01:17:19.800 --> 01:17:22.159 and I just I do fear like falling off of it. 1759 01:17:22.199 --> 01:17:24.560 At some point something else comes along and it's like, okay, 1760 01:17:24.760 --> 01:17:26.800 am I going to get back to it, but sticking 1761 01:17:26.800 --> 01:17:27.439 with it for now? 1762 01:17:28.119 --> 01:17:28.600 Too much? 1763 01:17:28.840 --> 01:17:30.319 Too many games? Ye, too many. 1764 01:17:30.399 --> 01:17:32.039 It's like there were ready too many games, and here 1765 01:17:32.079 --> 01:17:35.039 comes fifty more games, literally, fifty more games for you 1766 01:17:35.119 --> 01:17:37.399 to play. Someone. I think I was on the Besties 1767 01:17:37.399 --> 01:17:39.119 the other day and they were comparing it to like 1768 01:17:39.840 --> 01:17:42.079 looking at your Steam while like getting a game that's 1769 01:17:42.319 --> 01:17:45.319 Steam Library and suddenly you have this massive back this 1770 01:17:45.399 --> 01:17:47.119 new Steam library backlog. 1771 01:17:47.239 --> 01:17:47.800 Yeah. 1772 01:17:47.880 --> 01:17:52.279 Yeah, it's incredibly difficult to try and attack the backlog 1773 01:17:52.359 --> 01:17:54.279 and other games that are coming out When a game 1774 01:17:54.319 --> 01:17:56.560 that's already out comes out again and now it's on 1775 01:17:56.600 --> 01:17:59.560 my phone, Dan record, this is the worst thing you've 1776 01:17:59.560 --> 01:18:02.600 ever done to me by by sharing access to this 1777 01:18:02.760 --> 01:18:04.880 with me. I can't believe you've done this to me. 1778 01:18:05.560 --> 01:18:08.479 It's bad. It's Blatro. It's good. 1779 01:18:08.560 --> 01:18:10.520 It's one of the best games of the year, but 1780 01:18:10.680 --> 01:18:12.560 I am in a bad way with this on my 1781 01:18:12.640 --> 01:18:16.439 phone at this point. I played for five hours on 1782 01:18:16.479 --> 01:18:18.840 the Flight of Japan, and that was a pre release 1783 01:18:18.880 --> 01:18:20.880 one that I had like a cloud sink error, and 1784 01:18:20.920 --> 01:18:22.720 so it like overrode it with my iPad one, which 1785 01:18:22.760 --> 01:18:24.680 I hadn't played. So I had to restart, and I 1786 01:18:24.720 --> 01:18:26.279 was like, oh good, I get to do that five 1787 01:18:26.279 --> 01:18:29.199 hours again. That was excited about it. I will So 1788 01:18:29.279 --> 01:18:32.439 my sleep has been fucked up since I got back 1789 01:18:32.439 --> 01:18:34.920 from Japan. I woke up at like two two thirty 1790 01:18:34.960 --> 01:18:38.439 in the morning today. I just reach over grab my phone. 1791 01:18:39.199 --> 01:18:43.720 I played Bilatro from like two am until breakfast out 1792 01:18:44.119 --> 01:18:45.039 this morning. 1793 01:18:44.840 --> 01:18:46.640 Daniel, I ate it? 1794 01:18:46.760 --> 01:18:49.680 Or I played it during breakfast. I went on a run. 1795 01:18:49.760 --> 01:18:50.239 You ate it. 1796 01:18:51.000 --> 01:18:51.960 I went on a run. 1797 01:18:52.000 --> 01:18:54.399 And when I was stretching after my run, I was 1798 01:18:54.439 --> 01:18:56.680 stretching for much longer than usual because I was down 1799 01:18:56.680 --> 01:18:59.159 on the ground holding like a pigeon pos playing Blatro. 1800 01:19:00.880 --> 01:19:04.439 Took a ship play an a way too long playing. 1801 01:19:05.479 --> 01:19:08.800 It has been since two o'clock this morning, every element 1802 01:19:08.840 --> 01:19:11.520 of my day has involved playing Blattro on my phone. 1803 01:19:12.479 --> 01:19:14.479 Okay, Dan, can I all right? Let me tell you 1804 01:19:14.560 --> 01:19:17.720 how I stopped playing Blatro after many I don't want 1805 01:19:17.760 --> 01:19:19.359 to stop, you know, Okay, if you don't want to stuff, 1806 01:19:19.359 --> 01:19:24.119 that's fine for me. So I like hit I got 1807 01:19:24.119 --> 01:19:26.840 the optimal run in Blatro, which is basically when you 1808 01:19:26.880 --> 01:19:31.680 just do single high card kings with with Barren and 1809 01:19:31.760 --> 01:19:34.279 Mime and all the kings have like red seals and 1810 01:19:34.319 --> 01:19:37.560 you get into the exponentials and you break the game essentially, 1811 01:19:37.760 --> 01:19:40.359 and once you do that, it's way less fun to 1812 01:19:40.520 --> 01:19:44.079 play because others are playing just don't get you, and 1813 01:19:44.119 --> 01:19:46.279 it's kind of it's like mid max in the game almost, 1814 01:19:46.319 --> 01:19:50.319 but that's how you get past like level Anti Anti 1815 01:19:50.399 --> 01:19:52.960 thirteen and fourteen and stuff, which which I got to 1816 01:19:53.000 --> 01:19:55.359 like Anti eighteen or something like that. And this was 1817 01:19:55.399 --> 01:19:57.680 after like I don't know, one hundred hours of playing Blattro. 1818 01:19:57.760 --> 01:19:59.399 And once I got to that and did that, I 1819 01:19:59.439 --> 01:20:02.399 was like, oh, if playing with like a flush or 1820 01:20:02.439 --> 01:20:03.960 a straight or any other bills. 1821 01:20:03.800 --> 01:20:05.840 Yeah, you kind of just kind of feel solved or yeah. 1822 01:20:05.720 --> 01:20:07.359 It's solved. You solve the game exactly, I'm not the 1823 01:20:07.399 --> 01:20:10.319 way of putting it. Yeah, so that's the probable. Yeah, 1824 01:20:10.319 --> 01:20:12.399 if you if you ever want to stop, just do 1825 01:20:12.520 --> 01:20:14.600 that and you'll be like, oh, I don't feel the 1826 01:20:14.680 --> 01:20:15.680 need to play this game. 1827 01:20:15.840 --> 01:20:17.680 And I'm mad that I even have this knowledge that 1828 01:20:17.720 --> 01:20:18.920 that's possible now, because. 1829 01:20:18.720 --> 01:20:20.199 I'm sorry, man, I think you should be. 1830 01:20:20.239 --> 01:20:23.039 Arrested for doing this perfect experience. 1831 01:20:24.760 --> 01:20:28.119 I am afraid of falling into it. So I bought 1832 01:20:28.119 --> 01:20:29.840 it on stream the other day and I just did 1833 01:20:30.359 --> 01:20:33.479 one run while the Bliants were playing last night, and 1834 01:20:33.600 --> 01:20:36.399 I I did, really, I did way better than my 1835 01:20:36.439 --> 01:20:38.600 first runs when I was originally playing it. Almost got 1836 01:20:38.640 --> 01:20:41.039 to the end I failed, and I'm like, okay, I'm 1837 01:20:41.039 --> 01:20:42.720 just gonna put it down now and go play some 1838 01:20:42.800 --> 01:20:44.920 other games so I actually have something to talk about 1839 01:20:44.920 --> 01:20:46.760 on the podcast and I could stick with Zolda and 1840 01:20:46.800 --> 01:20:49.720 all that stuff. I have a fear of being in 1841 01:20:49.760 --> 01:20:51.399 the situation you're in. Down. I have kids. I don't 1842 01:20:51.399 --> 01:20:54.119 have time for this, man, this is a time. Yeah. 1843 01:20:54.199 --> 01:20:56.279 I already get looks for looking at weird stuff on 1844 01:20:56.279 --> 01:20:58.600 my phone, but now I'm getting even weirder looks of 1845 01:20:58.840 --> 01:21:02.119 people seeing me play something that looks like poker and 1846 01:21:02.159 --> 01:21:03.479 now amend. 1847 01:21:02.960 --> 01:21:05.439 That energy though gambling. Yeah. 1848 01:21:05.439 --> 01:21:09.039 Well, the people in the underground majong Den don't appreciate 1849 01:21:09.079 --> 01:21:10.760 when you're playing a different game and. 1850 01:21:10.680 --> 01:21:12.920 Not Yeah, you don't want to offend them. 1851 01:21:13.039 --> 01:21:15.600 Yeah yeah, yeah, especially when like all the lights are 1852 01:21:15.680 --> 01:21:17.680 purple neon and here you are with your phone at 1853 01:21:17.680 --> 01:21:21.159 full brightness, like breathing out of your mouth playing bulatro. 1854 01:21:21.560 --> 01:21:26.560 Yeah it's great right there, that's good. Yeah. The repeating 1855 01:21:26.640 --> 01:21:28.640 music that is like not that long of a loop 1856 01:21:28.800 --> 01:21:31.359 is still so good to me after all those it's 1857 01:21:31.600 --> 01:21:32.880 uh god, what a good game. 1858 01:21:32.920 --> 01:21:34.399 I keep the audio on. Yeah, I listen to it 1859 01:21:34.399 --> 01:21:34.720 every day. 1860 01:21:34.760 --> 01:21:36.520 Did just get the physical copy, which I think I'm love, 1861 01:21:36.640 --> 01:21:38.439 I mean the way we showed that on the BombCast 1862 01:21:38.439 --> 01:21:40.439 couch for the Giant Bomb Coutch. Yeah. I just got 1863 01:21:40.439 --> 01:21:43.359 the physical copy for the Switch, And like, man, it's 1864 01:21:43.439 --> 01:21:45.960 just everywhere right now, everywhere I turned more blatro. So 1865 01:21:46.119 --> 01:21:48.119 I can't fold down that pit, not right now. 1866 01:21:48.399 --> 01:21:50.199 Like the fourth or fifth time I've started on a 1867 01:21:50.199 --> 01:21:53.680 different device or platform, and like I've been unlock everything again. 1868 01:21:53.720 --> 01:21:56.239 I'm gonna I can't wait, I. 1869 01:21:56.199 --> 01:21:57.399 Can't wait, I can't wait. 1870 01:21:57.840 --> 01:22:02.520 I can wait to play more games. But in celebration 1871 01:22:02.760 --> 01:22:05.640 of Infrastructure Week, Mike Manatti, thank you for doing the 1872 01:22:05.680 --> 01:22:07.720 work and checking out frost Punk two. 1873 01:22:08.560 --> 01:22:11.319 Yeah you have New city Builder. I did not play 1874 01:22:11.359 --> 01:22:14.199 frost Punk one. I always meant to, and then before 1875 01:22:14.239 --> 01:22:17.159 I could, here's this sequel. So just dove right into 1876 01:22:17.600 --> 01:22:22.560 this pretty pretty good stuff. For people who don't know 1877 01:22:22.680 --> 01:22:25.359 the frost Punk thing. It's kind of in an alternate 1878 01:22:25.399 --> 01:22:29.279 world where the planet was frozen over sort of during 1879 01:22:29.279 --> 01:22:32.960 the Industrial Revolution. That's kind of the level of technology 1880 01:22:32.960 --> 01:22:34.800 we have. It got a bit more advanced than that. 1881 01:22:35.000 --> 01:22:37.199 Kind of like a snow piercer. It's a little bit 1882 01:22:37.239 --> 01:22:38.159 of a snonow piercer. 1883 01:22:38.520 --> 01:22:40.479 I don't know if it's my sick Midwestern brain, but 1884 01:22:40.479 --> 01:22:42.199 the whole game is supposed to be very dire and 1885 01:22:42.279 --> 01:22:44.840 kind of depressing and sad, but I'm like, oh, snow, 1886 01:22:44.920 --> 01:22:52.279 this is cozy, yes, even though it's like like one 1887 01:22:52.279 --> 01:22:54.520 of the best things the game does is when when 1888 01:22:54.560 --> 01:22:56.600 things like bad things happened, that like kind of like 1889 01:22:56.600 --> 01:22:58.960 you know, twist things up and like give you a crisis. 1890 01:22:59.399 --> 01:23:01.760 They kind of like make it personal, like a poppable 1891 01:23:01.840 --> 01:23:04.800 come up and first it'll be like a person like 1892 01:23:05.159 --> 01:23:08.800 talking like in their diary, like, oh, like the kids 1893 01:23:08.880 --> 01:23:11.319 they have too much free time and they're starting gang 1894 01:23:11.359 --> 01:23:13.720 wars and whatnot. And then like a little bit later 1895 01:23:13.760 --> 01:23:16.720 you'll get the gang war problem. So it is need 1896 01:23:16.800 --> 01:23:18.479 that kind of makes a person like that, but still 1897 01:23:18.520 --> 01:23:20.920 because it is like a city builder, I have this 1898 01:23:21.000 --> 01:23:24.720 god like I view I'm able to be somewhat dispassionate 1899 01:23:24.760 --> 01:23:27.159 about things, so you know, I could do things that 1900 01:23:27.159 --> 01:23:29.319 I would never do, like you know, send the children 1901 01:23:29.359 --> 01:23:31.479 to the minds, which I hear them they yearn for 1902 01:23:33.760 --> 01:23:36.039 what time I had a coal mine. It's like a 1903 01:23:36.039 --> 01:23:38.079 big loop of the game is that you have this 1904 01:23:38.279 --> 01:23:40.119 kind of central part of your city and there's a 1905 01:23:40.159 --> 01:23:44.560 furnace there and it's a very resource heavy game, right, 1906 01:23:44.600 --> 01:23:46.600 so you need to kind of balance all of that. 1907 01:23:46.640 --> 01:23:48.920 And when the big resources is coal or fuel to 1908 01:23:49.039 --> 01:23:52.279 keep the generator going, they always have these coal mines 1909 01:23:52.359 --> 01:23:55.159 or whatever, and there's this emergency like oh uh oh, 1910 01:23:55.239 --> 01:23:58.880 the coal mine's like gonna blow up. Do we do 1911 01:23:58.920 --> 01:24:01.439 we just like sacrifice the home mine or do we 1912 01:24:01.520 --> 01:24:03.880 like shut off this door and some people will die, 1913 01:24:03.880 --> 01:24:06.000 but we'll get to save the mind I was like, oh, 1914 01:24:06.039 --> 01:24:09.680 I guess we'll just I guess we'll just close that door. 1915 01:24:10.000 --> 01:24:12.359 Did immediately get like text bubbles coming up, like, no, 1916 01:24:12.560 --> 01:24:16.359 my brother's still in there. I'm like, it's like, you know, 1917 01:24:16.359 --> 01:24:18.159 I said some people will die, it's like six hundred 1918 01:24:18.159 --> 01:24:21.600 people died. Yeah, that's more than some people. 1919 01:24:22.199 --> 01:24:24.319 This is what I like about the original frost punkin 1920 01:24:24.399 --> 01:24:25.720 and now what you're doing here with this guy, which 1921 01:24:25.720 --> 01:24:28.680 I guess there is like some ramping up of like 1922 01:24:28.720 --> 01:24:31.640 the level of control you have over Frostpunk two compared 1923 01:24:31.680 --> 01:24:33.680 to frost Punk one, But what you're doing here is 1924 01:24:33.680 --> 01:24:36.319 exactly what I enjoyed about it, which is you're making 1925 01:24:36.359 --> 01:24:39.000 decisions and then you're coming away with stories about what 1926 01:24:39.039 --> 01:24:40.399 that meant to the people in the world and what 1927 01:24:40.439 --> 01:24:41.880 it meant to you as the leader. And it was 1928 01:24:41.920 --> 01:24:44.319 like for me in the first one, it was starting 1929 01:24:44.399 --> 01:24:46.800 the religious police that would punish people if they didn't 1930 01:24:46.800 --> 01:24:50.119 work too hard, and it was like, again, you're becoming 1931 01:24:50.159 --> 01:24:53.199 this evil villain that is making the hard choices so 1932 01:24:53.199 --> 01:24:55.640 society can continue, and it puts you in that in 1933 01:24:55.680 --> 01:24:58.359 that situation and that's a lot of fun. And I 1934 01:24:58.840 --> 01:25:01.000 think Frostpunk two sound it's like it's kind of striking 1935 01:25:01.039 --> 01:25:03.000 the same tone. So I'm excited to start this. 1936 01:25:03.199 --> 01:25:05.159 Yeah, And there's just there's a lot going on. 1937 01:25:05.199 --> 01:25:07.279 There's a lot of systems, you have tech trees that 1938 01:25:07.319 --> 01:25:10.199 you can invest in, and there are different factions at play. 1939 01:25:10.439 --> 01:25:12.600 You kind of have like a counsel or you know 1940 01:25:12.640 --> 01:25:16.520 this government like at Congress and you want to pass laws, 1941 01:25:16.600 --> 01:25:20.600 that'll be like, oh, you know, there's there's free necessities 1942 01:25:20.640 --> 01:25:22.840 for people, or people have to pay for that kind 1943 01:25:22.880 --> 01:25:25.199 of stuff. Or like when I had that children problem 1944 01:25:25.279 --> 01:25:27.279 and there was a child gang war, It's like, okay, 1945 01:25:27.279 --> 01:25:29.600 well you can pass the law so that all children 1946 01:25:29.640 --> 01:25:31.319 have to go to school, and maybe that's going to 1947 01:25:31.399 --> 01:25:33.760 keep them busy. Just give them fortnite and just give 1948 01:25:33.800 --> 01:25:36.880 them a fortnight, they'll be fine. You sometimes you have 1949 01:25:36.920 --> 01:25:40.520 to like play these factions kind of to get more votes. 1950 01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:43.319 Like you'll see how many votes a law is gonna 1951 01:25:43.319 --> 01:25:45.640 get yeas and nays, and there's a lot of undecided. 1952 01:25:46.000 --> 01:25:48.600 You can get one faction on your side, but then 1953 01:25:48.640 --> 01:25:51.439 you have to promise them something like getting another law 1954 01:25:51.560 --> 01:25:56.520 passed or uh, investing in a specific tech tree kind 1955 01:25:56.520 --> 01:25:58.640 of thing. But if you do that then they're happy. 1956 01:25:58.680 --> 01:26:00.640 You get you know, points with them. You don't do that, 1957 01:26:00.680 --> 01:26:04.279 they're unhappy. And then off top of that, eventually I 1958 01:26:04.319 --> 01:26:07.720 was expanding to exploring the area outside of my main 1959 01:26:07.720 --> 01:26:10.039 city because we had to get more coal. So eventually 1960 01:26:10.079 --> 01:26:12.319 I have like a whole nother settlement going on, and 1961 01:26:12.359 --> 01:26:15.159 I'm sort of trading between these two things. So even 1962 01:26:15.359 --> 01:26:18.760 just after a couple of hours, the complexity was pretty intense. 1963 01:26:18.760 --> 01:26:21.039 In a way, I was still enjoying, but it was 1964 01:26:20.920 --> 01:26:22.680 I was like, when I was done, I was like, Okay, 1965 01:26:23.079 --> 01:26:25.560 good head, kind of hurt. That's a lot of stuff 1966 01:26:25.560 --> 01:26:28.239 to take care of. Who knew that managing a post 1967 01:26:28.279 --> 01:26:31.600 apocalyptic snow city would be so stressful and hard. 1968 01:26:32.720 --> 01:26:35.479 Yeah, that's another thing. Like you're like riding the line 1969 01:26:35.720 --> 01:26:38.119 and you're just trying to like straight by there so 1970 01:26:38.159 --> 01:26:41.840 that you can get everybody to the wind scenario. And 1971 01:26:42.079 --> 01:26:44.239 when it works out, it feels like you know, in 1972 01:26:44.279 --> 01:26:47.119 the Forts or Horizon races where they're like faking you 1973 01:26:47.199 --> 01:26:49.000 being in a race with a train, so it's always 1974 01:26:49.000 --> 01:26:51.079 so close that it feels cinematic. I kind of have 1975 01:26:51.159 --> 01:26:53.560 the same feeling in Frostpunk one, where it's like, oh 1976 01:26:53.640 --> 01:26:55.560 my god, we're just barely getting across the finish line 1977 01:26:55.600 --> 01:26:57.880 with the resources we have, and it feels cool while 1978 01:26:57.920 --> 01:27:00.680 you're playing, like now you're a very empathetic I mean, 1979 01:27:00.920 --> 01:27:04.479 you wind up empathizing and sympathizing with an anime character 1980 01:27:04.520 --> 01:27:07.319 that you've never fictional characters mostly empathizes with. 1981 01:27:07.399 --> 01:27:11.560 Yeah, is any of the dourness of this game bugging 1982 01:27:11.600 --> 01:27:13.000 with you or sticking with you at all? 1983 01:27:13.399 --> 01:27:15.760 It's funny because like I, you know, I streamed and 1984 01:27:15.800 --> 01:27:18.079 allow people my chapping like worried for me, like oh 1985 01:27:18.199 --> 01:27:20.319 this Mike might not like this is like depress them. 1986 01:27:20.560 --> 01:27:23.359 But again, for one thing, when it's a video don't 1987 01:27:23.359 --> 01:27:26.079 care about their children for some reason, video games already 1988 01:27:26.760 --> 01:27:30.079 sometimes have a better degree of separation from than other media, 1989 01:27:30.119 --> 01:27:32.159 just in terms of that stuff. I still get invested, 1990 01:27:32.560 --> 01:27:36.239 but you know, I won't get super depressed necessarily, But again, 1991 01:27:36.640 --> 01:27:39.319 that kind of god side view of things, it's like 1992 01:27:39.399 --> 01:27:42.920 another layer of separation. Even though they do do things 1993 01:27:43.000 --> 01:27:45.560 like those kind of testimonials from the on the ground 1994 01:27:45.680 --> 01:27:48.319 characters that help make things feel a bit more real, 1995 01:27:48.840 --> 01:27:51.760 it is kind of still all numbers on a spreadsheet, right, 1996 01:27:51.920 --> 01:27:55.000 Like it's like it's terrible, I get that, but it's like, 1997 01:27:55.039 --> 01:27:57.199 here's how many workers I have and oops, now two 1998 01:27:57.279 --> 01:28:00.840 hundred died because of it an outbreak. That's a shame, 1999 01:28:01.199 --> 01:28:04.159 But I'll just go an expedition and find more workers. 2000 01:28:03.800 --> 01:28:04.800 Something like that. 2001 01:28:05.039 --> 01:28:07.680 It's bad, but I can get more game. 2002 01:28:07.720 --> 01:28:08.239 Me about it. 2003 01:28:08.800 --> 01:28:10.840 I think more games should have child gang wars. 2004 01:28:11.359 --> 01:28:15.199 Yes, that's an incredible I mean, I, like I said. 2005 01:28:15.079 --> 01:28:17.600 Before, I'm a little underwhelmed by Zelda because of wisdom. 2006 01:28:17.640 --> 01:28:19.439 But like if it started off with a I don't 2007 01:28:19.479 --> 01:28:21.439 think gang war. I would be like, WHOA. I can 2008 01:28:21.479 --> 01:28:22.640 summon children and make. 2009 01:28:22.560 --> 01:28:26.680 Them fight each other village town. 2010 01:28:28.000 --> 01:28:30.239 That's what every persona game is. You are a child 2011 01:28:30.399 --> 01:28:35.079 gang going to war. Yeah, there you go, Dan Reikert, 2012 01:28:35.520 --> 01:28:38.000 how do you think a child gang would fare against 2013 01:28:38.039 --> 01:28:38.880 the Horde of zombies? 2014 01:28:39.840 --> 01:28:42.159 Advising zombie a child gang very quickly? 2015 01:28:44.479 --> 01:28:44.640 Uh? 2016 01:28:45.039 --> 01:28:47.520 Dead Rising Deluxe Remaster. Not a ton to say about 2017 01:28:47.560 --> 01:28:50.000 it other than just it's it's a really good remaster. 2018 01:28:50.159 --> 01:28:52.079 It it looks, it looks great, runs great. 2019 01:28:52.520 --> 01:28:52.640 Uh. 2020 01:28:52.760 --> 01:28:54.800 You know, some of the sticking points that bug people 2021 01:28:54.920 --> 01:28:57.520 originally about the save system and things like that have 2022 01:28:57.640 --> 01:28:58.560 been kind of ironed out. 2023 01:28:58.600 --> 01:29:01.960 Auto saves, it's you know, everything works there. 2024 01:29:01.960 --> 01:29:04.520 Obviously, the small tech stuff got fixed forever ago and 2025 01:29:04.640 --> 01:29:05.720 that's not a problem here, So. 2026 01:29:06.399 --> 01:29:08.880 Ye're still playing on a CRT that that yeah, that 2027 01:29:08.960 --> 01:29:09.520 must have helped. 2028 01:29:09.600 --> 01:29:11.920 Yeah, yeah, well no, I actually so I played this 2029 01:29:12.039 --> 01:29:14.920 a lot on I got the Rock Alix as well, 2030 01:29:15.079 --> 01:29:16.520 and so I thought this would be a good one 2031 01:29:16.560 --> 01:29:19.239 to test on the Steam Deck versus the rog Allyx. 2032 01:29:19.279 --> 01:29:21.359 And because I'm trying to, I haven't used the rock 2033 01:29:21.399 --> 01:29:23.039 stuff before, and so I'm trying to figure out like 2034 01:29:23.079 --> 01:29:25.199 the use case for It's like, okay, when would I 2035 01:29:25.279 --> 01:29:28.119 play a game on the Alix versus the Steam Deck? 2036 01:29:28.279 --> 01:29:30.520 And I think Dead Rising was like a perfect example 2037 01:29:30.600 --> 01:29:33.119 because it's one that I noticed that like, Okay, I 2038 01:29:33.199 --> 01:29:35.439 can crank everything up to pretty much max on the 2039 01:29:35.520 --> 01:29:38.239 rog Alix and it runs very smoothly, good frame rate 2040 01:29:38.319 --> 01:29:40.319 and everything. Where is it really chugged by doing it 2041 01:29:40.399 --> 01:29:43.279 on the Steam Deck. But then I know, like grub, 2042 01:29:43.439 --> 01:29:45.560 you've you've been in that ecosystem longer than I have, 2043 01:29:45.640 --> 01:29:48.680 with like the ally stuff and everything. Here's my takeaway 2044 01:29:48.840 --> 01:29:51.399 is that like, if it's a game like a Dead Rising, 2045 01:29:51.600 --> 01:29:53.600 that's going to kind of you know, push the hardware 2046 01:29:53.600 --> 01:29:57.239 a little more. It's better to use the rog Allyx. 2047 01:29:57.279 --> 01:29:58.840 If I'm like at home, I'm gonna be on the 2048 01:29:58.880 --> 01:30:01.399 couch watching wrestling for cup Flowers or something. I can 2049 01:30:01.520 --> 01:30:03.079 charge it, maybe not the thing I take on a 2050 01:30:03.119 --> 01:30:05.560 flight to Japan or something like that, Whereas like the 2051 01:30:05.640 --> 01:30:08.239 steam Deck is better for if I want to play 2052 01:30:08.279 --> 01:30:11.520 a bunch of UFO fifty or indie games or something 2053 01:30:12.239 --> 01:30:14.600 that will get more out of like you know it, 2054 01:30:15.079 --> 01:30:16.520 the battery life seems longer. 2055 01:30:16.800 --> 01:30:20.640 You turn down the TDP on done all five and 2056 01:30:20.720 --> 01:30:23.520 it's fine, yeah, yeah, yeah, and so but the Rock 2057 01:30:23.600 --> 01:30:25.119 has that too. It's got there's three different stars. 2058 01:30:25.239 --> 01:30:26.880 It's got like the Turbo one and everything, and if 2059 01:30:26.920 --> 01:30:29.279 I go Turbo and everything, like it'll run dead rising 2060 01:30:29.439 --> 01:30:32.920 very very well. So yeah, it's like I'm finding that 2061 01:30:33.000 --> 01:30:34.840 like steam Deck will probably be my long haul kind 2062 01:30:34.880 --> 01:30:38.000 of flight stuff indie games and things like that, and 2063 01:30:38.079 --> 01:30:40.479 then the ally X I'll play on my couch, you know, 2064 01:30:40.600 --> 01:30:41.520 maybe like the Star. 2065 01:30:41.359 --> 01:30:45.039 Wars loss on my original ally for example. So yeah, totally. Yeah. 2066 01:30:45.039 --> 01:30:47.199 The screen's really good, Like it just seems pretty powerful. 2067 01:30:47.279 --> 01:30:49.199 I like the form factor of it and everything. So 2068 01:30:49.600 --> 01:30:51.600 I'm definitely impressed with it. And I think I'm starting 2069 01:30:51.600 --> 01:30:53.960 to understand because I was reading conflicting things about the batteries. 2070 01:30:54.000 --> 01:30:56.479 Some people were saying it's got more battery than the 2071 01:30:56.479 --> 01:30:58.399 Steam DECKO led and some were saying it has less. 2072 01:30:58.439 --> 01:31:00.399 And it's like, I kind of think it's depends on 2073 01:31:00.479 --> 01:31:02.600 what you're playing. Yeah, if you have it on turbo, 2074 01:31:02.960 --> 01:31:06.000 it's using more power than the steam Deck would ever use, 2075 01:31:06.159 --> 01:31:08.000 I think, And then if you plug it in with 2076 01:31:08.079 --> 01:31:10.239 the adapter that comes with it, it gives it like 2077 01:31:10.359 --> 01:31:13.159 five extra watts, so you get even more power. So 2078 01:31:13.199 --> 01:31:15.960 that's why I like plugging it in and playing in bed. 2079 01:31:16.000 --> 01:31:18.239 When I'm playing Star Wars Run pretty well. 2080 01:31:18.359 --> 01:31:20.840 Yes, I use my rock mostly. 2081 01:31:20.880 --> 01:31:23.399 It is kind of like my in bed device, which 2082 01:31:23.479 --> 01:31:26.199 is like how I pretty much exclusively use my switch anyway. 2083 01:31:26.239 --> 01:31:28.720 So I just associate this kind of one to two 2084 01:31:28.760 --> 01:31:31.119 hours is that I give myself to play games in bed, 2085 01:31:31.159 --> 01:31:34.000 which isn't maybe great for sleep schedules, but very comfy. 2086 01:31:34.039 --> 01:31:35.960 It's very cozy. I get a lot of good gaming 2087 01:31:36.079 --> 01:31:38.239 done that way. And yeah, it's like the big problem 2088 01:31:38.279 --> 01:31:40.359 with the rog Alley original was the battery life. I 2089 01:31:40.399 --> 01:31:41.920 know the ex is supposed to be better, and I 2090 01:31:42.039 --> 01:31:45.119 am curious to see how much better it does feel, 2091 01:31:45.159 --> 01:31:46.199 But I bet at the end of the day. I'll 2092 01:31:46.279 --> 01:31:48.520 keep it plugged in anyways one because you don't have 2093 01:31:48.520 --> 01:31:50.159 to worry about it until you do get a little 2094 01:31:50.159 --> 01:31:51.600 bit of a performance boost when you do. 2095 01:31:52.319 --> 01:31:54.159 And the Windows stuff doesn't bother me. I know a 2096 01:31:54.199 --> 01:31:56.039 lot of people don't like, you know, the Windows stuff, 2097 01:31:56.079 --> 01:31:58.439 but has not been a problem with me. And also like, 2098 01:31:58.479 --> 01:32:00.760 I don't miss the track pads. The track pads a 2099 01:32:00.840 --> 01:32:04.960 ton I love. So would you use it for like FPS. 2100 01:32:04.920 --> 01:32:08.399 On well, I'll use it for mouse and keyboard games. 2101 01:32:08.399 --> 01:32:09.840 I don't use it for FPS, but I use it 2102 01:32:09.960 --> 01:32:13.479 for like when I am doing emulation, I will add 2103 01:32:13.479 --> 01:32:16.479 a lot of stuff to the radial menus and stuff 2104 01:32:17.279 --> 01:32:18.960 good for that, yes, and then and then when I 2105 01:32:19.000 --> 01:32:22.279 am in Linux, I do like having that as an option, 2106 01:32:22.760 --> 01:32:25.960 whereas you are always in Windows on the the ally 2107 01:32:26.079 --> 01:32:28.079 and then using the right stick for the mouse. It's fine, 2108 01:32:28.119 --> 01:32:30.279 It's that's fine. The issues is just Windows kind of 2109 01:32:30.840 --> 01:32:34.119 stumbles when it doesn't have a keyboard and uh and 2110 01:32:34.239 --> 01:32:36.279 you and you can't get like access to certain parts 2111 01:32:36.279 --> 01:32:38.760 of the screen because the Windows get in the way, 2112 01:32:39.079 --> 01:32:40.600 and then you have to update things and it's three 2113 01:32:40.640 --> 01:32:42.680 different apps. It's just a little bit more of a 2114 01:32:42.760 --> 01:32:45.119 pain in the ass that it's it's getting better over 2115 01:32:45.199 --> 01:32:47.520 time though, Like I've always said, once you're in a 2116 01:32:47.560 --> 01:32:50.680 game on the ally, it's great, there's no issues. Yeah 2117 01:32:50.720 --> 01:32:52.800 I've been I've been really impressed. And uh, you going 2118 01:32:52.800 --> 01:32:53.840 back to Dead Rising real quick? 2119 01:32:53.920 --> 01:32:56.399 So I just kind of forgot, Like I remember really 2120 01:32:56.560 --> 01:32:59.720 enjoying that game back in six or whatever, but it's 2121 01:32:59.760 --> 01:33:01.479 not one that I really went back to a lot. 2122 01:33:01.520 --> 01:33:03.520 I don't think I ever played four. I remember, you know, 2123 01:33:03.640 --> 01:33:05.640 liking two and three, but that first one was just 2124 01:33:05.720 --> 01:33:07.920 such a novel thing and that setting was great and 2125 01:33:08.279 --> 01:33:11.119 the photo element and all that stuff, and uh, I'll 2126 01:33:11.159 --> 01:33:14.520 be damned, but it's still it's really really funny. It's 2127 01:33:14.560 --> 01:33:17.880 still very fun like all of that. That tone really works. 2128 01:33:18.680 --> 01:33:20.439 It's it's it's a great one to go back to, 2129 01:33:20.560 --> 01:33:22.439 and I beat it so and I want to do 2130 01:33:22.520 --> 01:33:24.600 the thing because it's like, what's that, Mike, Why do 2131 01:33:24.680 --> 01:33:25.079 you look like that? 2132 01:33:25.199 --> 01:33:25.439 Nothing? 2133 01:33:25.479 --> 01:33:27.880 I just wanted to camera. I just wanted to gym 2134 01:33:27.960 --> 01:33:28.600 the camera for a second. 2135 01:33:28.600 --> 01:33:31.399 Don't worry about Oh okay, okay, yeah, I remember being 2136 01:33:31.439 --> 01:33:33.039 a fun one to go back and restart with. Like 2137 01:33:33.119 --> 01:33:34.760 you know, I'm on super levels up now and now 2138 01:33:34.800 --> 01:33:36.800 I can just kind of mow through everything. So I'll 2139 01:33:36.840 --> 01:33:38.439 probably play more of it, and it's a great game. 2140 01:33:38.640 --> 01:33:40.279 Very excited to play this. I actually never played the 2141 01:33:40.359 --> 01:33:44.199 original somehow I just enjoy it. That was very anti 2142 01:33:44.399 --> 01:33:47.800 zombie for a while, I was too anti zombie. So 2143 01:33:48.199 --> 01:33:51.279 but now, especially for Spooky Season which starts today, Happy 2144 01:33:51.359 --> 01:33:53.079 October everybody, I think this is going to be a 2145 01:33:53.159 --> 01:33:54.399 good one to check out this month. 2146 01:33:54.760 --> 01:33:57.520 Mike, I was the same way I did zombie pop 2147 01:33:57.560 --> 01:34:00.119 culture and games. I think it's lame and boring, like 2148 01:34:00.199 --> 01:34:03.600 Walking Dead manias. This shit sucks. The Telltale Walking Dead 2149 01:34:03.640 --> 01:34:07.560 games that everyone freaked out about. Those games suck, so 2150 01:34:07.640 --> 01:34:10.159 it's fu yeah, But Dead Rising is the one where 2151 01:34:10.159 --> 01:34:11.520 it's like, no, this is very very good. 2152 01:34:11.600 --> 01:34:13.399 I like this, folks. 2153 01:34:13.399 --> 01:34:16.359 There's a lot of video games coming out, and thankfully 2154 01:34:16.439 --> 01:34:18.520 we have another podcast later in the week where we 2155 01:34:18.600 --> 01:34:20.439 will talk about the rest of them, because I've also. 2156 01:34:20.359 --> 01:34:21.920 Yeah, well up on something that we didn't have time 2157 01:34:21.920 --> 01:34:23.800 to talk about today for sure, Wizards of Blood. Of 2158 01:34:23.800 --> 01:34:26.119 time to play it. I'm your Beast Expeditions, a mud 2159 01:34:26.199 --> 01:34:26.680 Runner game. 2160 01:34:26.800 --> 01:34:29.600 Jeff Grubb. I played more of this game afterwards he did, 2161 01:34:29.840 --> 01:34:31.479 and I can't wait to tell you about it, because 2162 01:34:31.520 --> 01:34:32.319 I mean, it's a lot to make. 2163 01:34:32.399 --> 01:34:34.840 I ditched the bus and then I think I understood 2164 01:34:34.920 --> 01:34:39.319 more of you by playing. Yeah, it is about the struggle, 2165 01:34:39.399 --> 01:34:41.760 Like I get excited when the truck gets stuck in 2166 01:34:41.880 --> 01:34:44.279 the mud or especially in snow ridder. Getting stuck in 2167 01:34:44.319 --> 01:34:46.720 the snow is a very special kind of hell. And 2168 01:34:46.880 --> 01:34:48.560 having to get three other trucks out there to get 2169 01:34:48.600 --> 01:34:50.760 the main truck that has the cargo on it that 2170 01:34:50.800 --> 01:34:53.079 you actually need, and then starting to use the crane, 2171 01:34:54.319 --> 01:34:56.640 it just becomes this great mess that I don't know, 2172 01:34:56.680 --> 01:34:59.760 I find very satisfying speaking about a special type of hell. 2173 01:35:00.159 --> 01:35:03.279 Let's get into the news. Yeah, I'm maxed out on 2174 01:35:03.359 --> 01:35:08.039 moon drops? Who congratulations? Really worried? Did you update your 2175 01:35:08.079 --> 01:35:09.279 silos so you can have more? 2176 01:35:09.600 --> 01:35:11.560 I don't have silos yet, but I got twenty five 2177 01:35:11.640 --> 01:35:12.319 hundred moon drops. 2178 01:35:13.720 --> 01:35:17.319 Are you getting yoyo's? Yeah yet? Oh you got upgrader, Yo, 2179 01:35:17.359 --> 01:35:18.439 you got to get the wizard Yoyo. 2180 01:35:18.760 --> 01:35:20.319 I keep dying every time I go into the field. 2181 01:35:20.520 --> 01:35:21.880 Oh yeah, yeah, me too. I did that for a 2182 01:35:21.960 --> 01:35:24.119 very long time. All right, let's let's make the news 2183 01:35:24.199 --> 01:35:28.279 pretty breezy. Star Wars Outlaws is highlighting Ubisoft's current woes. 2184 01:35:28.840 --> 01:35:31.720 They apparently only sold a million copies according to one 2185 01:35:31.800 --> 01:35:35.479 report in the first month. Part like the response to 2186 01:35:35.560 --> 01:35:38.920 that has led Ubisoft to delay Assassiness Creed Shadows into February, 2187 01:35:39.479 --> 01:35:42.760 and Ubisoft says that they're board is launching a review 2188 01:35:42.880 --> 01:35:45.640 of the company. H it's kind of a mess over there, 2189 01:35:45.640 --> 01:35:47.359 and the mess seems to be associated with them doing 2190 01:35:47.399 --> 01:35:49.439 the thing that they very frequently have done, which is 2191 01:35:50.399 --> 01:35:52.640 release big games made by a lot of people in 2192 01:35:52.720 --> 01:35:54.439 a state where it's like, maybe we can get away 2193 01:35:54.479 --> 01:35:56.279 with this and we'll kind of update it once it's live, 2194 01:35:56.439 --> 01:35:58.960 and they've regretted that in the past. They've done it 2195 01:35:59.039 --> 01:36:01.319 once again. Now they're doing the thing they've done every 2196 01:36:01.359 --> 01:36:03.199 single one of those times, and it's delay all their 2197 01:36:03.239 --> 01:36:06.279 other big games right now. That is just apparently Assassin's 2198 01:36:06.319 --> 01:36:09.800 Creed Shadows US stock price dropped to the lowest point 2199 01:36:09.800 --> 01:36:13.760 in eleven years. It's not looking great over there. I 2200 01:36:15.079 --> 01:36:17.960 certainly do not know the answer for that company, but 2201 01:36:18.439 --> 01:36:18.920 how can. 2202 01:36:18.840 --> 01:36:20.960 I just find out? You mentioned the board is doing 2203 01:36:21.039 --> 01:36:28.119 a review. Sportive directors have the last name. Five of 2204 01:36:28.199 --> 01:36:29.840 them are Gilmant brother. 2205 01:36:30.359 --> 01:36:33.199 Right, so this doesn't exactly spell the end of Yeskimo, 2206 01:36:33.319 --> 01:36:36.199 when they when something like that happens, right, because who 2207 01:36:36.319 --> 01:36:37.039 is reviewing him? 2208 01:36:37.439 --> 01:36:41.960 Yeah, well, so what happens is if shareholders pressure the board. 2209 01:36:42.000 --> 01:36:44.359 I mean there are a lot of different methods in 2210 01:36:44.439 --> 01:36:47.640 which board control and they don't have like complete voting 2211 01:36:47.720 --> 01:36:49.600 control as far as I know of the company, and 2212 01:36:49.840 --> 01:36:51.920 even if they did, I mean, corporate like, they're hostile 2213 01:36:51.920 --> 01:36:54.119 takeovers all the time. We've all seen succession. 2214 01:36:54.239 --> 01:36:57.800 Things can get dicey, and it's they're certainly this is 2215 01:36:57.840 --> 01:36:59.840 what this is. Same things are certainly getting dicey right now. 2216 01:37:01.079 --> 01:37:02.960 But yeah, one of the problems with you isself one 2217 01:37:02.960 --> 01:37:04.760 of the reasons they're in this situation in the first 2218 01:37:04.760 --> 01:37:07.560 place is that they're a family owned company. Like they 2219 01:37:07.560 --> 01:37:10.640 were started by the Guillmant brothers in nineteen eighty six 2220 01:37:10.800 --> 01:37:13.640 or whatever it was, and the Guilmant brothers have remained 2221 01:37:13.680 --> 01:37:16.520 in control ever since, and that has its pros and 2222 01:37:16.600 --> 01:37:19.600 its cons. One of the cons is, whatever the last 2223 01:37:19.640 --> 01:37:22.680 few years have been, it's just constant trend chasing and 2224 01:37:23.159 --> 01:37:26.960 just spinning their wheels and making bad bets and like 2225 01:37:28.079 --> 01:37:30.720 just seems like disastrous coming if Shadows is not. 2226 01:37:30.920 --> 01:37:34.000 A hit, right, and they seem over confident in their 2227 01:37:34.079 --> 01:37:36.239 way of doing things because it is so big and 2228 01:37:36.319 --> 01:37:39.239 complex and using so many people in so many studios 2229 01:37:39.239 --> 01:37:40.720 all over the world, and like part of that is 2230 01:37:40.800 --> 01:37:42.880 like impressive that they're able to make games that way, 2231 01:37:43.319 --> 01:37:44.720 and it is bigger than kind of any of the 2232 01:37:44.720 --> 01:37:46.920 way anyone else does it. But now when they're in 2233 01:37:46.920 --> 01:37:49.159 a situation where it's like, hey, these games aren't finished 2234 01:37:49.159 --> 01:37:50.239 and we do got to get them out so we 2235 01:37:50.279 --> 01:37:52.319 can make some money back, and then they're forced to 2236 01:37:52.399 --> 01:37:55.600 delay it, it looks really bad, and it probably because 2237 01:37:55.920 --> 01:37:58.840 it is. And Assassin's Creed Shadows has it's in a 2238 01:37:58.920 --> 01:38:02.079 precarious situation where it was maybe one of the bigger 2239 01:38:02.119 --> 01:38:03.600 games come out in the second half of this year, 2240 01:38:04.000 --> 01:38:06.600 and now it's in a February that is very crowded, 2241 01:38:06.600 --> 01:38:08.359 and of course people keep wanting to go to Yota 2242 01:38:08.479 --> 01:38:11.279 that just got announced as being some competitor next year. 2243 01:38:11.399 --> 01:38:14.239 But there's an Assassin's Creed audience that is hoping this 2244 01:38:14.359 --> 01:38:17.479 game will come out and be good, but a lot 2245 01:38:17.520 --> 01:38:18.800 of it's just going to be left to be seen 2246 01:38:18.880 --> 01:38:21.239 until they can actually get it out. The big issue 2247 01:38:21.319 --> 01:38:24.199 apparently has been that the game it was going to 2248 01:38:24.239 --> 01:38:27.840 be messy with bugs and other than that, it was finished, 2249 01:38:27.840 --> 01:38:30.399 So they're just talking about polish as they frequently do, Jason, 2250 01:38:30.439 --> 01:38:33.199 when you talk to people that make games, this amount 2251 01:38:33.199 --> 01:38:35.359 of a delay, is it enough to sort of deal 2252 01:38:35.439 --> 01:38:38.119 with that kind of issue with bugs? 2253 01:38:38.199 --> 01:38:40.000 Yeah, definitely. I mean three months can make a big deal, 2254 01:38:40.319 --> 01:38:42.279 a big difference when it comes to launching a game 2255 01:38:42.359 --> 01:38:45.800 that feels polished and a game that doesn't. Yeah, definitely, 2256 01:38:45.880 --> 01:38:49.239 three month's going to make a significant difference. But notable 2257 01:38:49.279 --> 01:38:52.159 of that, Like they're still keeping it within the fiscal year, 2258 01:38:52.239 --> 01:38:54.920 which is at the end of March, and that strikes 2259 01:38:55.000 --> 01:38:58.640 vias something they have to do for fear of really 2260 01:38:58.760 --> 01:39:02.600 upsetting investors. Investors already spooked, and that's why the stock 2261 01:39:02.720 --> 01:39:06.079 is plumbing. But yeah, three months is a good amount 2262 01:39:06.079 --> 01:39:07.399 of time to fix bu because it's not enough time 2263 01:39:07.479 --> 01:39:10.520 to overhaul the whole game. Even a year wouldn't be 2264 01:39:10.600 --> 01:39:12.399 enough to overhaul the whole game. But it doesn't sound 2265 01:39:12.399 --> 01:39:14.199 like they need to do that. I think they're pretty confident. 2266 01:39:14.319 --> 01:39:16.079 What I've heard from folks that Ubisoft is that like 2267 01:39:16.439 --> 01:39:20.079 Shadows is pretty good, and that like if it if 2268 01:39:20.119 --> 01:39:23.359 it's in if it's fixed and in shape, it should 2269 01:39:23.359 --> 01:39:26.279 be pretty good. It's not like mind blowing. I heard 2270 01:39:26.359 --> 01:39:29.079 that the next one hex is that what it's called 2271 01:39:29.199 --> 01:39:32.479 Neo I think was the code name. That one is 2272 01:39:32.520 --> 01:39:35.640 supposed to be like totally different and unlike anything that 2273 01:39:35.880 --> 01:39:39.800 like the Holy Roman Empire, which is stuff that one's 2274 01:39:39.800 --> 01:39:42.680 supposed to be very different. But if they make it 2275 01:39:43.000 --> 01:39:46.039 that far right, but Shadows, I think is just going 2276 01:39:46.079 --> 01:39:49.560 to be another like good like Origin Slash odysty Slash 2277 01:39:49.640 --> 01:39:52.760 Valhalla style Assassin's Creed game, which I'm all up for. 2278 01:39:52.880 --> 01:39:55.279 I loved all three of those games, so I'm for that. 2279 01:39:55.880 --> 01:39:58.239 Du soond pretty interested that maybe hear what you think 2280 01:39:58.640 --> 01:40:02.920 is the cause for Wars Outlaws Looes. That's a pretty 2281 01:40:03.000 --> 01:40:05.319 soft launch for that, And it seems like there's like 2282 01:40:05.359 --> 01:40:07.000 so many things you could point the finger to, like 2283 01:40:07.119 --> 01:40:09.600 maybe Star Wars is kind of lost a step is 2284 01:40:09.680 --> 01:40:11.920 in a bit of a bad way. Is it just 2285 01:40:12.000 --> 01:40:13.840 that the game came out too early and in sort 2286 01:40:13.880 --> 01:40:16.920 of a rough state, or is it is it because 2287 01:40:16.960 --> 01:40:18.840 so many people do know they can wait and buy 2288 01:40:18.880 --> 01:40:21.920 you be soft games on a sale, like even in 2289 01:40:22.000 --> 01:40:23.720 fact they're all of that in I'm so like a 2290 01:40:23.840 --> 01:40:25.880 little bit shocked that a big star Wars game like 2291 01:40:25.960 --> 01:40:29.119 this is only going to sell like a million units 2292 01:40:29.159 --> 01:40:29.960 in its first month. 2293 01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:32.000 It's kind of kind of bizarre. 2294 01:40:32.359 --> 01:40:34.439 Yeah, the oversaturation is a big part of it. The 2295 01:40:34.560 --> 01:40:37.399 kind of mediocre reviews is a big part of it. 2296 01:40:38.199 --> 01:40:40.359 I think Star Wars games, Jeff, you might know this 2297 01:40:40.439 --> 01:40:42.720 better than I, but if I remember correctly, the second 2298 01:40:42.880 --> 01:40:45.399 Jedi did not hit expectations. 2299 01:40:45.600 --> 01:40:48.560 It's not the first, right, That's why they did the 2300 01:40:48.800 --> 01:40:51.720 pay release on PS four Xbox right, right, yeah? Right? 2301 01:40:51.800 --> 01:40:53.199 Or right? Yeah, so I think that. 2302 01:40:54.479 --> 01:40:54.520 So. 2303 01:40:54.680 --> 01:40:56.600 Yeah, part of it is that Star Wars is oversaturated. 2304 01:40:56.640 --> 01:40:58.319 A big part of it is, like we mentioned before, 2305 01:40:58.359 --> 01:41:00.920 those black Hole games, Like people aren't buying new games 2306 01:41:01.000 --> 01:41:05.760 of the same game today. Yeah, Like nothing is hitting 2307 01:41:05.920 --> 01:41:07.920 quite the way that people wanted to. If you look 2308 01:41:07.920 --> 01:41:10.079 at all the Triple A games this year, other than 2309 01:41:10.119 --> 01:41:12.760 Black Mith Fukong, which is an exception because it's mostly 2310 01:41:12.920 --> 01:41:16.840 Chinese audience who are just super into that game. There, 2311 01:41:17.199 --> 01:41:19.439 I can't think of many Triple A games this year 2312 01:41:19.520 --> 01:41:24.239 that have like done beyond expectations. Maybe Warhammer maybe, I 2313 01:41:24.279 --> 01:41:26.520 guess Hell divers Too is the biggest example anyway out 2314 01:41:26.520 --> 01:41:29.640 As a service game, you look at Rebirth Fantasy se Rebirth, 2315 01:41:29.720 --> 01:41:33.079 that's probably the best reviewed Triple A game of the year, 2316 01:41:33.319 --> 01:41:37.840 and even that like failed to hit like Square Innix's expectations. 2317 01:41:37.920 --> 01:41:40.000 So yeah, it's kind of it's the industry. The vide 2318 01:41:40.039 --> 01:41:42.479 game industry is in a weird place at the moment, 2319 01:41:42.920 --> 01:41:46.439 and it seems like a lot of people are just 2320 01:41:46.560 --> 01:41:48.800 kind of like treading. 2321 01:41:48.600 --> 01:41:49.920 Water for a while. 2322 01:41:50.199 --> 01:41:51.720 I think a lot of people are waiting for GTA 2323 01:41:51.800 --> 01:41:55.319 six to come out, which will then like buoi sales 2324 01:41:55.359 --> 01:41:58.000 of the PlayStation five, which will then lead to more 2325 01:41:58.039 --> 01:42:00.319 people buying PS five game games. 2326 01:42:00.359 --> 01:42:03.560 I think that maybe or maybe they only PLAYDTA six 2327 01:42:03.640 --> 01:42:04.640 for the next ten years. 2328 01:42:04.800 --> 01:42:06.600 Well that's the thing, right, So the thing that I'm 2329 01:42:06.680 --> 01:42:10.079 really keeping a close eye on is if Dragon Age 2330 01:42:10.239 --> 01:42:13.600 Vailguard does well critically, like if it's an eighty five 2331 01:42:13.720 --> 01:42:15.920 plus Metacritic and like people really like it, which I 2332 01:42:16.039 --> 01:42:20.520 expect that it will, and then it doesn't sell quite 2333 01:42:20.560 --> 01:42:24.439 as well as hopes, then I think we're like Triple 2334 01:42:24.520 --> 01:42:27.199 A is really in trouble because that game is like 2335 01:42:27.439 --> 01:42:29.560 it's set up to be doing really well dragon Age. 2336 01:42:29.560 --> 01:42:31.239 It's been ten years since a dragon Age game, so 2337 01:42:31.279 --> 01:42:32.439 there's a big appetite for that. 2338 01:42:33.399 --> 01:42:33.800 If it does. 2339 01:42:33.960 --> 01:42:36.640 If it's like critically well received and people still won't 2340 01:42:36.640 --> 01:42:39.399 buy it's multiplatform, Umike reworth. If it's critically well received 2341 01:42:39.399 --> 01:42:43.520 and people don't buy it, that's a concern for Everybody're right. 2342 01:42:43.840 --> 01:42:45.600 Yep, it's and it's nothing kind of thing where it's 2343 01:42:45.600 --> 01:42:47.119 like what it like, because a game like Boulder Skate 2344 01:42:47.159 --> 01:42:49.279 three can come out and shock the world and take 2345 01:42:49.359 --> 01:42:52.039 over everything, but these publishers keep, even when they have 2346 01:42:52.079 --> 01:42:54.479 a good game, can't seem to capture that same kind 2347 01:42:54.479 --> 01:42:56.239 of success. And I don't expect them to capture that 2348 01:42:56.359 --> 01:42:58.720 kind of success, but to still have a big hit 2349 01:42:58.760 --> 01:43:00.840 here if it's like eighty five plus you said, yeah, 2350 01:43:00.840 --> 01:43:04.079 and if it misses, it will maybe illustrate some other 2351 01:43:04.159 --> 01:43:06.840 issues that are deeper seeded, which I just think is 2352 01:43:06.920 --> 01:43:09.079 maybe if I were trying to diagnose that, it's like, 2353 01:43:09.159 --> 01:43:12.239 I just gamers don't seem happy with gaming right now, 2354 01:43:12.439 --> 01:43:14.399 and that is a weird and scary thing for these 2355 01:43:14.439 --> 01:43:18.479 companies spending a lot of money on everything. Tony Hawk 2356 01:43:18.600 --> 01:43:21.560 is kind of suggesting maybe there is more. Tony Hawk's 2357 01:43:21.600 --> 01:43:23.960 pro skater. He says there will be a future, even 2358 01:43:23.960 --> 01:43:26.119 though he's not supposed to tease anything about what the 2359 01:43:26.600 --> 01:43:29.520 future of the series is. That can mean anything. I 2360 01:43:29.680 --> 01:43:32.239 am choosing to get my hopes up because I am 2361 01:43:32.279 --> 01:43:35.479 a fool, and I'm hoping this means more Tony Hawk's 2362 01:43:35.479 --> 01:43:38.079 pro Skater for real, Tony Hawks pro Skater one plus 2363 01:43:38.119 --> 01:43:41.039 two best selling Tony Hawk games by my understanding, So 2364 01:43:41.279 --> 01:43:43.439 why not make more of that? Would have rather had? 2365 01:43:44.359 --> 01:43:44.560 Good? 2366 01:43:44.800 --> 01:43:46.920 What if he's just going to guess on the Hawk 2367 01:43:47.000 --> 01:43:50.319 Tour podcast and now that's a possibility, of course, number 2368 01:43:50.319 --> 01:43:52.760 three podcasts on Spotify, you know, the Tony Hawk to 2369 01:43:53.199 --> 01:43:55.279 you know, yeah, pro Skater. 2370 01:43:56.039 --> 01:43:57.920 I'm never going to listen to that, but I'm always like, yeah, 2371 01:43:57.920 --> 01:43:59.399 I get that bag, mean girl, all. 2372 01:43:59.359 --> 01:44:01.079 Of course, Yeah, I'm proud of. Of course, we're all 2373 01:44:01.119 --> 01:44:01.439 proud of. 2374 01:44:02.520 --> 01:44:06.039 Would you rather have a three remake or a new 2375 01:44:06.159 --> 01:44:08.199 Tony Hawk take what I can get. I think those 2376 01:44:08.199 --> 01:44:11.680 would both be fantastic. Yeah, the Underground I want Underground. 2377 01:44:11.680 --> 01:44:13.119 I want to punch the face. 2378 01:44:13.119 --> 01:44:15.359 I'll take any of that American Skateland too, I don't care. 2379 01:44:15.600 --> 01:44:17.359 Yeah, I guess I'd be a little bit worried about 2380 01:44:17.399 --> 01:44:19.880 the new thing, just because like the scars of Tonyaks 2381 01:44:19.920 --> 01:44:22.119 pro Skater five still hurt a little bit, whereas I know, 2382 01:44:22.239 --> 01:44:25.920 a remake of Tonyak's pro Skater three it's gonna be amazing. 2383 01:44:26.319 --> 01:44:28.600 But I would also like respect them doing a new 2384 01:44:28.640 --> 01:44:31.199 game a little bit more. I suppose I also think 2385 01:44:31.319 --> 01:44:32.880 they did a new one now. I don't think it'd 2386 01:44:32.920 --> 01:44:35.479 be another five situation, considering one plus two was like 2387 01:44:35.760 --> 01:44:36.920 done properly, you know. 2388 01:44:37.119 --> 01:44:40.199 Yeah, if I carry his visions now, Blizzard like, there's 2389 01:44:40.239 --> 01:44:42.239 no chance those people come back and work on Tony. 2390 01:44:42.079 --> 01:44:46.960 Hawk, right, Jason, I don't know. They're Blizzard Albany now. 2391 01:44:47.000 --> 01:44:50.079 They're all working on Diablo and Overwatch too, so it 2392 01:44:50.159 --> 01:44:52.960 seems unlikely that they would move to a game. But 2393 01:44:53.079 --> 01:44:55.199 like near Microsoft, you never know it's going to happen 2394 01:44:55.279 --> 01:44:57.920 with any of these studios and BECAUSO changes its minds 2395 01:44:58.039 --> 01:44:59.600 every three months about everything. 2396 01:44:59.720 --> 01:45:02.279 So Tony Hawk's cooler than those games. 2397 01:45:02.760 --> 01:45:05.079 Maybe, yeah, maybe the hell Blay two team is gonna 2398 01:45:05.079 --> 01:45:07.760 work on Tony Hawk. Now, I's like, forget this narrative garbage. 2399 01:45:08.199 --> 01:45:12.119 Yeah, is Tony Hawk getting his legs stuck under a 2400 01:45:12.199 --> 01:45:13.600 rock and grimacing for twenty minutes? 2401 01:45:13.640 --> 01:45:14.439 Great? That sounds fun. 2402 01:45:15.920 --> 01:45:17.960 I mean that's the whole thing with Thug was the 2403 01:45:18.079 --> 01:45:20.960 rich narrative right right, No, you could get off your 2404 01:45:21.000 --> 01:45:22.840 board and walk around and then you could import your 2405 01:45:22.880 --> 01:45:24.239 face to connect. 2406 01:45:24.520 --> 01:45:26.680 How did you do that? Because I remember game Boy 2407 01:45:26.800 --> 01:45:29.600 camera yep. No, I remember, like I. 2408 01:45:29.640 --> 01:45:31.560 Had to upload a jpeg of my face to like 2409 01:45:31.640 --> 01:45:33.399 a website. But then how the fuck did I get it? 2410 01:45:33.840 --> 01:45:35.960 Did I have a network adapt at that point? Did 2411 01:45:36.039 --> 01:45:38.119 you have to for thug. 2412 01:45:41.439 --> 01:45:41.640 Card? 2413 01:45:42.680 --> 01:45:44.720 You were using a deck track? Are you using a PlayStation? 2414 01:45:44.920 --> 01:45:47.520 I maybe you're using a PlayStation. I an eey, No, 2415 01:45:47.720 --> 01:45:49.960 I think I might have gotten the network adapt. 2416 01:45:50.119 --> 01:45:51.680 Yeah, I was through the website. 2417 01:45:53.039 --> 01:45:54.239 Outbreak or whatever that was. 2418 01:45:54.520 --> 01:45:57.000 Oh, there was a Rattet and Clank online mode P 2419 01:45:57.239 --> 01:45:59.359 two that I tried. No, No, they had one in 2420 01:45:59.479 --> 01:46:02.520 like one of the norm rag and klanks like a 2421 01:46:02.640 --> 01:46:05.720 mobile or something. Wasn't it like a mobile? 2422 01:46:05.800 --> 01:46:08.239 Like a mobile? I mean, I don't think old. 2423 01:46:08.079 --> 01:46:11.399 Men trying to remember video games anyways. Of the. 2424 01:46:13.840 --> 01:46:17.359 Man learning about Activision and talking to people in the 2425 01:46:17.439 --> 01:46:20.079 Activision sphere for Activision's history, Like there's a chapter in 2426 01:46:20.119 --> 01:46:22.239 play I is called Bobby and it's all about his 2427 01:46:22.479 --> 01:46:26.680 rise to the Activision Empire to run the Activision Empire. 2428 01:46:27.279 --> 01:46:30.840 That it is fascinating. It is fascinating. 2429 01:46:30.880 --> 01:46:32.319 Is what cool is that? 2430 01:46:32.399 --> 01:46:32.680 Bobby? 2431 01:46:32.720 --> 01:46:36.000 Guy Cool Bobby, I'll let. 2432 01:46:36.039 --> 01:46:42.439 I'll let readers be the judge of is surprisingly good 2433 01:46:42.760 --> 01:46:43.760 as an actor. 2434 01:46:43.640 --> 01:46:49.239 In Yeah, I do like his role in Moneyball got 2435 01:46:49.319 --> 01:46:51.359 lost in the role some people. Yeah. 2436 01:46:51.399 --> 01:46:55.039 So he he like he would take a hit franchise 2437 01:46:55.159 --> 01:46:57.159 and then just turn it into I have an anecdote 2438 01:46:57.199 --> 01:46:59.079 in the book that is like this guy who is 2439 01:46:59.600 --> 01:47:01.880 running the Guitar Hero franchise for a while, and he 2440 01:47:02.039 --> 01:47:03.800 was talking about how he's in a room with Bobby 2441 01:47:03.840 --> 01:47:06.239 and they're putting together presentation and Bobby looks over him 2442 01:47:06.239 --> 01:47:09.079 and he's like, great job, But I want to get 2443 01:47:09.119 --> 01:47:11.359 to a new Guitar Hero game every quarter, and then 2444 01:47:11.359 --> 01:47:13.079 I want to get to a new Guitar Hero game. 2445 01:47:13.880 --> 01:47:18.319 Yes, you understand over saturation at some point, right. 2446 01:47:18.600 --> 01:47:21.840 He just believes that like players are just like insatiable, 2447 01:47:22.079 --> 01:47:24.199 like content. And then he also believes that like. 2448 01:47:24.359 --> 01:47:26.199 If it's going up into the right, the arrow just 2449 01:47:26.279 --> 01:47:27.199 keeps going up into the right. 2450 01:47:27.600 --> 01:47:29.960 I understanding, I'll just kill the franchise and move on 2451 01:47:30.039 --> 01:47:30.800 to something else. 2452 01:47:31.119 --> 01:47:31.680 It doesn't work. 2453 01:47:31.680 --> 01:47:34.760 It always worked, didn't Yeah, And for college Udio it 2454 01:47:34.800 --> 01:47:37.800 worked forever and still works to this day. So Tony 2455 01:47:37.880 --> 01:47:40.840 Hawk was a victim of that, which is why nobody 2456 01:47:40.880 --> 01:47:43.000 can remember all the different Tony Hawk games and who 2457 01:47:43.119 --> 01:47:45.560 which is what and which did what, and there's just 2458 01:47:45.640 --> 01:47:48.239 so many of them. It's fascinating. 2459 01:47:48.279 --> 01:47:52.399 Man Loo can forget Tony Hawk ride I got on 2460 01:47:52.439 --> 01:47:53.319 the board in the other room. 2461 01:47:53.520 --> 01:47:54.800 You won't be able to forget it when we make 2462 01:47:54.840 --> 01:47:59.279 you play it for Blake clubs. So damn it. 2463 01:47:59.399 --> 01:48:01.319 I don't have a fact that I will not get one. 2464 01:48:01.920 --> 01:48:07.439 We'll get you one. Yeah. My dad did just find 2465 01:48:07.520 --> 01:48:10.239 my unopened connect and he threatened to send it to me, 2466 01:48:10.279 --> 01:48:13.880 and he doesn't understand that it's a threat. So all right, 2467 01:48:13.960 --> 01:48:17.000 let's go to the shryer zone. You've been out doing. 2468 01:48:16.840 --> 01:48:19.239 A lot of podcasts for like two hours now, Yeah, 2469 01:48:19.239 --> 01:48:19.680 a little bit. 2470 01:48:20.039 --> 01:48:25.880 This is the deepertcha. Uh, your book's coming out, So 2471 01:48:25.920 --> 01:48:27.720 you've been talking a lot of tidbits. People like Ben 2472 01:48:27.760 --> 01:48:29.600 Hansoon won't let you leave the podcast until you give 2473 01:48:29.640 --> 01:48:33.079 them scoops. So I have a handful of things here. 2474 01:48:33.079 --> 01:48:34.920 I'm just gonna say the names and you could tell 2475 01:48:34.960 --> 01:48:38.000 me what's really going on. For example, apparently they're working 2476 01:48:38.079 --> 01:48:41.039 on a new StarCraft shooter at Blizzard, the third one 2477 01:48:41.119 --> 01:48:43.600 in a long lineage of StarCraft shooters that never come out. 2478 01:48:43.800 --> 01:48:47.880 They cannot quit StarCraft shooters. It's true. Yeah, the first 2479 01:48:47.920 --> 01:48:48.960 one of StarCraft ghosts. 2480 01:48:49.000 --> 01:48:49.279 That one. 2481 01:48:49.399 --> 01:48:50.920 I think a lot of people know the story. I 2482 01:48:51.039 --> 01:48:53.960 remember that one was well well documented. I mean it 2483 01:48:54.039 --> 01:48:56.680 was announced that it was like demo trade shows and stuff. 2484 01:48:56.680 --> 01:49:00.399 People played it, and it went through to developers before 2485 01:49:00.399 --> 01:49:04.199 it was finally killed. One of the reasons it was killed, 2486 01:49:04.279 --> 01:49:07.000 fun fact, is that it was like set due to 2487 01:49:07.079 --> 01:49:09.439 come out, or it was like heavy in development during 2488 01:49:09.479 --> 01:49:13.119 a console transition as everyone was moving from the Xbox 2489 01:49:13.199 --> 01:49:16.920 one to the Xbox three sixty xx one, Xbox OG 2490 01:49:17.079 --> 01:49:19.720 to the Xbox sixty or like ps PS two to 2491 01:49:19.800 --> 01:49:24.399 p S three era, and and everyone was worried that 2492 01:49:24.680 --> 01:49:27.640 like the Target and the Walmarts of the world wouldn't 2493 01:49:27.760 --> 01:49:29.880 stock an old gen game like at the front of 2494 01:49:29.960 --> 01:49:33.119 their store. And it's crazy to think that that once mattered, 2495 01:49:33.600 --> 01:49:37.640 like yeah, six and it really made a difference if 2496 01:49:37.640 --> 01:49:41.880 you were getting were top shelf placement at Walmart and Target. 2497 01:49:42.159 --> 01:49:43.880 And so one of the reasons they killed it is 2498 01:49:44.000 --> 01:49:47.479 because because of that, and because it it was one 2499 01:49:47.479 --> 01:49:49.039 of the reasons that Walmart and Target did. That is 2500 01:49:49.079 --> 01:49:52.079 because the new generation was sixty and the previous generation 2501 01:49:52.159 --> 01:49:56.960 had been fifty dollars, and so some people at Blizzard 2502 01:49:58.239 --> 01:50:01.079 thought that the multiplayer for StarCraft Ghost at the time 2503 01:50:01.239 --> 01:50:03.000 was super cool and that it should have been released 2504 01:50:03.039 --> 01:50:07.159 as like a standalone digital title or something like that, 2505 01:50:07.399 --> 01:50:10.000 but Blizzard did not did not seize that opportunity and 2506 01:50:10.640 --> 01:50:12.680 was very distracted with the rise of World of Warcraft 2507 01:50:12.720 --> 01:50:15.680 at the time. Anyway, World of Warcraft was just absorbing everything, 2508 01:50:15.800 --> 01:50:18.800 So they wound up shutting down that project and putting 2509 01:50:18.840 --> 01:50:20.720 all those people on what they called like the Blizzard 2510 01:50:20.800 --> 01:50:24.039 Console team and started prototyping other stuff and then eventually 2511 01:50:24.560 --> 01:50:28.159 racing too into game. Yeah, I don't think Rock and 2512 01:50:28.279 --> 01:50:31.000 Roll that would have been cool now, I don't think 2513 01:50:31.000 --> 01:50:31.680 that was one of them. 2514 01:50:32.359 --> 01:50:33.199 So that was one. 2515 01:50:33.479 --> 01:50:36.079 And then Aris project Arias was more recent that was 2516 01:50:36.159 --> 01:50:41.199 like a StarCraft battlefield game, and that was canceled after 2517 01:50:41.399 --> 01:50:45.039 like three years of development in twenty nineteen. That was 2518 01:50:45.079 --> 01:50:47.640 canceled during after kind of the Mike Morheim to j 2519 01:50:47.840 --> 01:50:50.840 L and Brack transition, and there was a lot of 2520 01:50:50.840 --> 01:50:52.800 pressure from Activision and it was kind of like, hey, 2521 01:50:53.119 --> 01:50:56.079 diablofore and Overwatched two were already super late. Why are 2522 01:50:56.119 --> 01:50:58.319 you guys working on this other shooter when those people 2523 01:50:58.359 --> 01:51:00.159 could be working on Overwatch two to get that at 2524 01:51:00.159 --> 01:51:01.800 the door, like what are you doing here? And so 2525 01:51:01.880 --> 01:51:04.399 there are a lot of pressures and conversations about that. 2526 01:51:05.239 --> 01:51:07.359 And then yeah, and then earlier this year, a game 2527 01:51:07.439 --> 01:51:10.279 called Odyssey code named Odyssey, which was the survival game 2528 01:51:10.319 --> 01:51:14.199 of Blizzard that got canceled, and a small team under 2529 01:51:14.359 --> 01:51:16.680 Dan Hay who was the executive producer on that game 2530 01:51:16.960 --> 01:51:19.000 and brought in from Ubisov best known as the far 2531 01:51:19.119 --> 01:51:22.319 Cry far Cry guy for a long time, that small 2532 01:51:22.399 --> 01:51:27.439 team started prototyping another StarCraft shooter. And the purpose of 2533 01:51:27.560 --> 01:51:29.399 this me sharing this is not to be like, oh, 2534 01:51:29.560 --> 01:51:31.760 look at the scoop, look about what Blizzard's making, but 2535 01:51:31.880 --> 01:51:34.600 really just to point to this pattern of like Blizzard 2536 01:51:34.720 --> 01:51:37.760 not being able to part ways of the idea of 2537 01:51:37.880 --> 01:51:40.199 doing a StarCraft shooter. And here is hoping that this 2538 01:51:40.279 --> 01:51:41.279 one actually comes out. 2539 01:51:41.680 --> 01:51:47.199 Yeah, that's I mean almost twenty five years of shooter, yeah, 2540 01:51:47.239 --> 01:51:49.079 on and off, like a quarter of a century of 2541 01:51:49.199 --> 01:51:50.600 trying to put one out. That's wild. 2542 01:51:50.880 --> 01:51:54.159 Yeah, I try, I mean, that's that would be nice 2543 01:51:54.199 --> 01:51:55.640 in all part of me is like, boy, it should 2544 01:51:55.720 --> 01:51:59.279 be nice to get a StarCraft RTS again, maybe first, 2545 01:51:59.359 --> 01:52:01.800 And I know you a little bit about some people 2546 01:52:01.840 --> 01:52:04.399 want to do Warcraft and StarCraft artists again, but doesn't 2547 01:52:04.399 --> 01:52:06.079 really seem to be that much of an appetite, or 2548 01:52:06.119 --> 01:52:08.760 there's a worry about how well that would actually do today. 2549 01:52:09.199 --> 01:52:12.039 People wanted to do it and they couldn't, so they left, 2550 01:52:12.560 --> 01:52:14.439 and a lot of those people, led by Tim Morton, 2551 01:52:14.439 --> 01:52:16.760 who was the production director on StarCraft two, went on 2552 01:52:16.840 --> 01:52:19.039 to start a company called Frost Giant that just released 2553 01:52:19.039 --> 01:52:21.399 in early access a game called Stormgate that I think 2554 01:52:21.399 --> 01:52:25.600 has gotten mixed reviews, but it's an early access so 2555 01:52:25.640 --> 01:52:29.760 they have time to get it better hopefully. Yeah, those 2556 01:52:29.800 --> 01:52:32.239 guys tried to get a new arts game offic on, 2557 01:52:32.359 --> 01:52:34.800 but yeah, there was kind of this belief at the 2558 01:52:35.079 --> 01:52:38.840 highest levels of Blizzard that arts games just were not 2559 01:52:39.199 --> 01:52:41.680 selling anymore, and I think there was good reason for that. 2560 01:52:41.920 --> 01:52:45.800 StarCraft two was still popular and is still popular today. 2561 01:52:45.880 --> 01:52:47.880 Like you can log on and I do starcraf two 2562 01:52:47.920 --> 01:52:50.079 is my game. I log in every once in a 2563 01:52:50.159 --> 01:52:52.039 while and it'll take me like ten seconds again a 2564 01:52:52.119 --> 01:52:54.319 one v one match, So still a lot of people 2565 01:52:54.319 --> 01:52:57.479 are playing it. But there was a belief within Blizzard 2566 01:52:58.680 --> 01:53:02.239 on a dev ad executive level that like uh MOBAs 2567 01:53:02.279 --> 01:53:05.000 had killed arts games, and like or like other types 2568 01:53:05.000 --> 01:53:08.319 of strategy Clash of Clans ish games had killed artist games. 2569 01:53:08.319 --> 01:53:09.680 So they did work on a strategy game and it 2570 01:53:09.720 --> 01:53:11.920 was called Warcraft Rumble, and it came out late last year, 2571 01:53:11.960 --> 01:53:14.239 and I don't think many people played. 2572 01:53:14.000 --> 01:53:15.560 It come out, didn't it? 2573 01:53:17.760 --> 01:53:22.800 Yeah plans than it is RTS and the other thing. 2574 01:53:23.000 --> 01:53:25.000 And this is interesting another part of the nuance that 2575 01:53:25.039 --> 01:53:26.760 I was talking about, because this is like something you 2576 01:53:26.800 --> 01:53:29.880 wouldn't really think about, but a lot of the people 2577 01:53:29.920 --> 01:53:33.279 who would be like, they couldn't find a director, someone 2578 01:53:33.279 --> 01:53:35.479 who would be like a good position to actually direct 2579 01:53:35.479 --> 01:53:37.199 a game like that, because a lot of the people 2580 01:53:37.359 --> 01:53:41.479 who were designers or directors on previous RTS games were 2581 01:53:41.520 --> 01:53:44.000 either no longer at Blizzard or didn't want to work 2582 01:53:44.039 --> 01:53:46.600 on arts games anymore because they'd been working on StarCraft 2583 01:53:46.640 --> 01:53:48.359 two for so long, and so they wanted to do 2584 01:53:48.760 --> 01:53:51.560 other things like for example, Ari's at StarCraft Battlefield Shooter 2585 01:53:51.640 --> 01:53:54.680 I mentioned earlier that was being directed by Dustin Browner, 2586 01:53:54.720 --> 01:53:57.359 who was the director of StarCraft two, so he was 2587 01:53:57.439 --> 01:53:59.159 in his own world he didn't want to do like 2588 01:53:59.399 --> 01:54:02.800 Warcraft four or whatever StarCraft three, and now he's a 2589 01:54:03.000 --> 01:54:06.039 dream haven where he's working on a different project. I 2590 01:54:06.079 --> 01:54:08.119 don't actually know what it is, but it's something else. 2591 01:54:08.199 --> 01:54:11.000 So like the other thing to consider is that, like 2592 01:54:11.039 --> 01:54:13.279 sometimes you just can't find the right person to lead 2593 01:54:13.319 --> 01:54:16.680 a project like that who has the experience and know 2594 01:54:16.840 --> 01:54:19.560 how to with the genre, and so that can also 2595 01:54:19.760 --> 01:54:20.399 cause problems. 2596 01:54:21.600 --> 01:54:30.920 Uh star blow, Yeah, damn right, she does. Yeah, So 2597 01:54:31.159 --> 01:54:33.199 this is another one that came up. Is this a 2598 01:54:33.319 --> 01:54:35.720 real thing people should ever imagine could come out? 2599 01:54:35.960 --> 01:54:36.000 No? 2600 01:54:36.199 --> 01:54:38.039 So this was Okay, a little bit of history here 2601 01:54:38.279 --> 01:54:41.760 is that Blizzard North was the creator of Diablo that 2602 01:54:41.880 --> 01:54:45.119 was in the San Francisco Bay Area, separate company than 2603 01:54:45.239 --> 01:54:47.600 the Blizzard that we know of today that was in Irvine. 2604 01:54:48.119 --> 01:54:50.039 And so they made Diablo one and Diablo two, and 2605 01:54:50.119 --> 01:54:53.439 after Diablo two they have this period of just complete 2606 01:54:53.600 --> 01:54:56.920 chaos and floundering where like everyone was burnt out, they 2607 01:54:56.960 --> 01:54:59.279 were playing games all day at work, they were just 2608 01:54:59.479 --> 01:55:02.399 kind of hanging now. And for a long time they 2609 01:55:02.439 --> 01:55:04.960 were split into two teams. One was working on Diablo 2610 01:55:05.119 --> 01:55:08.640 three and it's early early stages, a version that would 2611 01:55:08.680 --> 01:55:10.199 never see the light of day, and the other was 2612 01:55:10.239 --> 01:55:12.840 working on something called Project X, which they called it 2613 01:55:12.920 --> 01:55:16.079 that because it changed every three months based on whatever. 2614 01:55:16.279 --> 01:55:18.560 David Brevick, who was the president of the studio, just 2615 01:55:18.640 --> 01:55:20.319 kind of came in and was like, no, let's make 2616 01:55:20.319 --> 01:55:22.000 it this, Let's make it a superhero game, Let's make 2617 01:55:22.039 --> 01:55:25.000 it a game about dragons, whatever it was. And then 2618 01:55:25.079 --> 01:55:27.439 one day he came in and he was like, screw this, 2619 01:55:27.680 --> 01:55:30.840 were making Starblow, and everybody applauded because they knew exactly 2620 01:55:30.920 --> 01:55:35.039 what that meant. Basically, what StarCraft is to Warcraft, Starblow 2621 01:55:35.159 --> 01:55:37.479 is to Diablo. It would be like, it's sci fi. 2622 01:55:37.640 --> 01:55:40.199 It's an action RPG. You're in space, you got a spaceship, 2623 01:55:40.239 --> 01:55:43.039 you fight aliens, YadA YadA, yadah. The works what a 2624 01:55:43.079 --> 01:55:45.479 lot of people would have loved to play. And they 2625 01:55:45.520 --> 01:55:49.359 started working on that, but it wasn't long before Blizzard 2626 01:55:49.399 --> 01:55:52.479 North imploded for a variety of reasons that I detail 2627 01:55:52.520 --> 01:55:55.079 in the book, and that game was canceled and they 2628 01:55:55.119 --> 01:55:57.600 switched to only work on Diabo three. And then two 2629 01:55:57.680 --> 01:56:02.039 years later Blizzer North shut down and Diablo three was 2630 01:56:02.119 --> 01:56:06.079 rebooted again back South in Irvine and started didn't start 2631 01:56:06.119 --> 01:56:11.079 from scratch, but it was essentially rebooted, and then Diablo 2632 01:56:11.119 --> 01:56:13.479 three took another six years after that, so no, Starblough 2633 01:56:13.600 --> 01:56:14.239 was long gone. 2634 01:56:14.399 --> 01:56:19.319 That is not happening. And then yeah, apparently yeah man. 2635 01:56:20.600 --> 01:56:22.760 And then the other thing that you popped off this 2636 01:56:22.880 --> 01:56:27.159 week or maybe reminded people about, is that Horizon Online 2637 01:56:27.199 --> 01:56:30.359 coming before Horizon three or whatever that will end up 2638 01:56:30.399 --> 01:56:34.359 being and that is a vestige a part of the 2639 01:56:34.439 --> 01:56:40.520 ongoing live service initiative at Sony. Should people be expecting 2640 01:56:40.600 --> 01:56:42.840 that to be a really big chance or chance that 2641 01:56:42.880 --> 01:56:46.600 they're taking over at Gorilla for their live service initiative? 2642 01:56:46.760 --> 01:56:49.359 Yeah, I guess. I don't think I said that Horizon 2643 01:56:49.439 --> 01:56:52.119 Online is like coming before Horizon three because I don't 2644 01:56:52.119 --> 01:56:54.399 even know that Horizon Online is actually going to come. 2645 01:56:54.319 --> 01:56:57.800 Out, like it's the thing that they are working on. 2646 01:56:58.239 --> 01:56:59.800 Yeah, And I actually I didn't think that was a 2647 01:56:59.840 --> 01:57:01.760 new I thought people had an idea of that because 2648 01:57:01.760 --> 01:57:03.479 they've been very public about the fact that they're working 2649 01:57:03.560 --> 01:57:06.239 on this online. I think the name even leaked during 2650 01:57:06.279 --> 01:57:10.039 the Insomniac leaked. It's called like Hunters Gathering or something 2651 01:57:10.119 --> 01:57:12.119 like that. It leaked out, it got it is public. 2652 01:57:13.079 --> 01:57:15.279 So I didn't think that was a big secret or 2653 01:57:15.399 --> 01:57:17.600 news or anything like that. But yes, that was that's 2654 01:57:17.920 --> 01:57:20.159 that's the thing that a lot of people at Gorilla 2655 01:57:20.239 --> 01:57:23.520 have been working on as far as I know, and 2656 01:57:23.760 --> 01:57:27.399 Horizon three last I spoke to people, there was pretty 2657 01:57:27.600 --> 01:57:31.520 pretty pretty early, pretty conceptual. And games take a long 2658 01:57:31.600 --> 01:57:34.119 time as it is. I mean it was five years 2659 01:57:34.199 --> 01:57:37.399 from Zero don to Forbidden West, So yeah, I mean 2660 01:57:37.479 --> 01:57:39.079 the res in three, I don't. I wouldn't expect that 2661 01:57:39.119 --> 01:57:39.840 for a very long. 2662 01:57:39.760 --> 01:57:44.520 Time, right, all right? Is yoship trolling Final Fantasy nine 2663 01:57:44.600 --> 01:57:48.600 fans Square Enixes and a Naoki Yoshuda has hinted that 2664 01:57:48.640 --> 01:57:51.319 a potential Final Fantasy nine rebake could span more than 2665 01:57:51.359 --> 01:57:54.000 one title do the game's extensive content. Basically, it was 2666 01:57:54.079 --> 01:57:56.319 like someone asked, Hey, if you were going to remake 2667 01:57:56.359 --> 01:57:58.159 another Final Fantasy game or any game, what would you 2668 01:57:58.159 --> 01:57:59.479 want to do? And he said, I would do Final 2669 01:57:59.520 --> 01:58:01.680 Fantasy three, But then look at this Final Fantasy nine. 2670 01:58:01.720 --> 01:58:04.800 There's so much content there. If we did that, wouldn't 2671 01:58:04.840 --> 01:58:07.000 we have to put it across several games, kind of 2672 01:58:07.039 --> 01:58:10.760 like seven Final Fantasy seven remake. We've seen that this 2673 01:58:10.880 --> 01:58:13.159 game has been part of that. In video week before 2674 01:58:14.199 --> 01:58:16.079 the suggestion there is that this is something that has 2675 01:58:16.199 --> 01:58:19.960 been happening. He's not really saying that they're going to 2676 01:58:20.000 --> 01:58:22.279 do the same thing they did with Final Fantasy seven remake, right. 2677 01:58:22.279 --> 01:58:23.800 Can I Can I read you a quote? This is 2678 01:58:23.880 --> 01:58:26.479 June fourth, twenty twenty. This is the please Japanese. This 2679 01:58:26.560 --> 01:58:30.479 is Google translated Japanese, but it's still close enough. Producer 2680 01:58:30.560 --> 01:58:32.880 Naoki Yoshida denies rumors that he will be the main 2681 01:58:32.920 --> 01:58:35.880 director of Final Fantasy sixteen. Quote. It's a rumor that 2682 01:58:36.000 --> 01:58:38.359 is false and annoying. I intend to continue working on 2683 01:58:38.479 --> 01:58:40.720 Final Fantasy fourteen for a few more years. 2684 01:58:42.199 --> 01:58:45.760 Interesting, So maybe he is trolling Final Fantasy nine fans. 2685 01:58:45.800 --> 01:58:46.920 It definitely feels that way. 2686 01:58:47.079 --> 01:58:48.600 I mean, not for one thing, I don't think they're 2687 01:58:48.640 --> 01:58:51.079 going to want to do another multi part remake after 2688 01:58:51.520 --> 01:58:54.600 sales have kind of gotten so soft for the seven remake. 2689 01:58:55.000 --> 01:58:56.640 True, and it would never make sense in the first 2690 01:58:56.680 --> 01:58:59.560 place for nine, something that's going to have a narrow room, 2691 01:59:00.399 --> 01:59:01.359 more narrow audience. 2692 01:59:02.159 --> 01:59:04.880 Nine was never Yeah, I mean that project, I don't know. 2693 01:59:04.920 --> 01:59:06.119 I mean, I know it's real, I have no idea 2694 01:59:06.159 --> 01:59:08.800 when it's coming. I don't know the development status of 2695 01:59:08.880 --> 01:59:11.399 it or anything like that, but from everything I heard, 2696 01:59:11.479 --> 01:59:14.399 it was not like the ambitious translit like Final Fantasy 2697 01:59:14.439 --> 01:59:16.800 seven remake is the brand new game. This is not that. 2698 01:59:17.119 --> 01:59:19.199 It's like Persona three reload is the kind of thing 2699 01:59:19.239 --> 01:59:19.840 that everyone. 2700 01:59:19.720 --> 01:59:22.680 Kind of a better comparison. Yeah, that sounds kind of what, 2701 01:59:22.840 --> 01:59:23.119 that's all. 2702 01:59:23.159 --> 01:59:24.279 I kind of went from it too. 2703 01:59:24.399 --> 01:59:27.680 And you know, it was that Pax East this year 2704 01:59:27.760 --> 01:59:30.600 where the Yoship had a panel for Found Face fourteen 2705 01:59:30.640 --> 01:59:33.640 down trail before it came out. Dontrill has some funal 2706 01:59:33.720 --> 01:59:36.600 Fantasy nine illusions and references, and one of like the 2707 01:59:36.680 --> 01:59:40.239 pre order things was like a little character minion based 2708 01:59:40.279 --> 01:59:42.640 on a Fountasy nine character, and at the time he 2709 01:59:42.760 --> 01:59:44.720 was like, oh, you'll see later whether there's so many 2710 01:59:44.800 --> 01:59:47.520 fun Fancy nine references. And at the time people freaked 2711 01:59:47.560 --> 01:59:49.439 out thinking he was talking about the remake, But that 2712 01:59:49.560 --> 01:59:51.800 might just be talking about again, all the illusions that 2713 01:59:51.960 --> 01:59:55.079 are in don trail for Found Fancy nine. But he's 2714 01:59:55.119 --> 01:59:56.880 been kind of coy about this stup before, and as 2715 01:59:56.960 --> 01:59:59.239 Jason's pointed out, he can be you can kind of 2716 01:59:59.279 --> 02:00:01.119 have fun with this stuff and he will just sort 2717 02:00:01.159 --> 02:00:04.239 of you know, uh, well lie sounds strong, but you know, 2718 02:00:04.359 --> 02:00:06.760 intentionally mislead because it is the thing that he should 2719 02:00:06.760 --> 02:00:09.880 be doing. Because of course, brother now and say these things. 2720 02:00:10.720 --> 02:00:12.760 It is a I kind of wanted too, because it's 2721 02:00:12.760 --> 02:00:16.119 sort of a depressing truth of gaming now to be like, well, 2722 02:00:16.199 --> 02:00:20.520 that game from A two thousand is too big to make. 2723 02:00:20.680 --> 02:00:25.600 Now like oh cool, we have to think the game smaller. 2724 02:00:25.720 --> 02:00:29.079 Now do you remember, Mike, you men grab you guys 2725 02:00:29.159 --> 02:00:32.079 must remember this, And like there are mid two thousands 2726 02:00:32.399 --> 02:00:35.359 when Square was like, HG, towns are too hard to make. 2727 02:00:35.479 --> 02:00:39.119 So that's like we're Final Fantasy thirteen just corridors. 2728 02:00:38.640 --> 02:00:39.239 Right because we were. 2729 02:00:39.359 --> 02:00:42.520 It's like, hey, there's no towns in Final Fantasy thirteen. 2730 02:00:42.600 --> 02:00:46.239 There's like a city that's more of a cinematic than anything. 2731 02:00:46.479 --> 02:00:48.199 You used to have one guy make all this for 2732 02:00:48.279 --> 02:00:50.520 the entire game, and now that's not possible. 2733 02:00:50.960 --> 02:00:53.680 Games are worse because the graphics have gotten better. 2734 02:00:54.359 --> 02:00:55.680 Yeah, I mean, it's what. 2735 02:00:55.680 --> 02:00:57.840 He has hit JRPGs like, and especially if you're a 2736 02:00:57.840 --> 02:00:59.800 Square Enix and like your whole bit is that you 2737 02:00:59.880 --> 02:01:02.720 have and make the prettiest RPGs ever, Like, yeah, it 2738 02:01:02.840 --> 02:01:04.039 kind of becomes a major problem. 2739 02:01:04.159 --> 02:01:05.960 And then at the same time they made one of 2740 02:01:06.000 --> 02:01:11.079 the best therapygs like ever in Octopath Traveler two last year, 2741 02:01:11.239 --> 02:01:14.319 and that is because it has awesome graphical limitations. It 2742 02:01:14.399 --> 02:01:17.520 still looks gorgeous, So like, how about more games like that? 2743 02:01:18.000 --> 02:01:20.680 It'll take HD two D Final Fantasy seventeen. 2744 02:01:20.880 --> 02:01:22.199 Hell yeah, that. 2745 02:01:22.199 --> 02:01:24.159 Would be h I wonder if they will come to 2746 02:01:24.239 --> 02:01:26.640 that decision at some point. It probably won't be seventeen, 2747 02:01:26.680 --> 02:01:30.880 but they maybe start doing the Final Fantasy HD. Yeah. Yeah, 2748 02:01:32.039 --> 02:01:34.560 all right, Jan you were thinking that a Nintendo mystery 2749 02:01:34.600 --> 02:01:38.039 thing could be a watch a wearable, there's some more 2750 02:01:38.319 --> 02:01:40.600 like look. People looked deeper at some filings at the 2751 02:01:40.680 --> 02:01:44.560 Nintendo made with the FCC for this mysterious box that 2752 02:01:44.720 --> 02:01:49.479 has a twenty four gigahert millimeter wave sensor inside of it, 2753 02:01:49.960 --> 02:01:52.279 and they said it sounds a little bit bigger than 2754 02:01:52.439 --> 02:01:55.600 a watch. Maybe a small cube that like sand sits 2755 02:01:55.640 --> 02:01:57.239 on a desk. What if it's a clock you wear 2756 02:01:57.239 --> 02:01:59.479 around your neck. Well, what if it's a clock that 2757 02:01:59.520 --> 02:02:02.159 watches you while you sleep for Pokemon Sleep. It's maybe 2758 02:02:02.239 --> 02:02:06.119 some of the speculation at this point. Yeah, either way, 2759 02:02:06.439 --> 02:02:09.239 it sounds like it will have a small screen, or 2760 02:02:09.319 --> 02:02:11.079 it could have a small screen. Will is such a 2761 02:02:11.119 --> 02:02:14.079 strong different word it could have a screen and it 2762 02:02:14.159 --> 02:02:15.760 will have this these they'll have the two point four 2763 02:02:15.800 --> 02:02:19.359 gigaherts for Wi Fi. No mention of five gigaherts, so 2764 02:02:19.399 --> 02:02:21.840 it's not It doesn't seem concerned with like a strong 2765 02:02:22.000 --> 02:02:23.800 fast connection, just something that we'll be able to have 2766 02:02:23.880 --> 02:02:26.840 a long range. And then this twenty four gigahertz radar 2767 02:02:27.279 --> 02:02:31.680 that can sense bodily movements in a room. It sounds 2768 02:02:31.720 --> 02:02:34.119 like something maybe does sit on a nightstand, tells you 2769 02:02:34.239 --> 02:02:36.479 the time you could set an alarm, and then it 2770 02:02:36.600 --> 02:02:38.800 tracks your sleep and could be like a health product. 2771 02:02:38.960 --> 02:02:42.680 So yeah, something along those lines seems likely. Nintendo also 2772 02:02:42.960 --> 02:02:45.920 apparently has a history of filing these sorts of things 2773 02:02:46.000 --> 02:02:48.720 on behalf of the Pokemon Company, so this could be 2774 02:02:48.960 --> 02:02:53.520 something like that as well. Kojama showed and talked a 2775 02:02:53.600 --> 02:02:56.800 lot about Death Stranding two at Tokyo Game Show. The 2776 02:02:56.960 --> 02:03:01.760 takeaway is it looks fucking weird still maybe weirder weirder 2777 02:03:01.800 --> 02:03:04.840 than ever with doll Man's dance moves and the polaroid 2778 02:03:04.880 --> 02:03:07.640 photo shoots of el Fanning and her friends, and then 2779 02:03:08.159 --> 02:03:11.920 the release date is decided they won't tell us because 2780 02:03:11.920 --> 02:03:13.359 he said unforeseen reasons. 2781 02:03:13.560 --> 02:03:16.600 It's just crazy that he got Sam Bank and freed too. 2782 02:03:18.159 --> 02:03:20.439 He's not so busy these days. He's more available than 2783 02:03:20.439 --> 02:03:22.840 ever in a lot of ways and less available in 2784 02:03:22.920 --> 02:03:26.800 some he uh yea Kojima. I said, they'll tell us 2785 02:03:26.800 --> 02:03:28.119 the release date in twenty twenty. 2786 02:03:27.960 --> 02:03:30.840 Five, greb, can't you tell us the release date right now? 2787 02:03:31.119 --> 02:03:34.720 Oh? Please? No, don't. I've been avoiding asking you to 2788 02:03:34.760 --> 02:03:38.039 get me all your scus because I actually. 2789 02:03:38.079 --> 02:03:40.720 Okay, so I've heard you've probably heard the same thing, 2790 02:03:40.760 --> 02:03:45.399 because I heard this from people close to first party 2791 02:03:45.520 --> 02:03:47.560 studios that like a lot of people are going to 2792 02:03:47.640 --> 02:03:50.359 be announcing games for twenty twenty five and just leave 2793 02:03:50.399 --> 02:03:54.640 it at that twenty twenty five until Rockstar announces their plans, 2794 02:03:54.720 --> 02:03:58.640 because that is going to be like Ripple. Nobody wants 2795 02:03:58.680 --> 02:04:00.800 to be close to GTA sex and a similar thing 2796 02:04:00.840 --> 02:04:02.479 happened with The Red Dead two. But this is like 2797 02:04:02.800 --> 02:04:03.880 five times as big as this. 2798 02:04:03.880 --> 02:04:06.319 Is way bigger than Yeah sure, yeah, yeah that that 2799 02:04:06.840 --> 02:04:08.600 that's kind of thing where it's like that's just assumed 2800 02:04:08.880 --> 02:04:10.720 by everyone that's talking, like, well, of course we're worried 2801 02:04:10.720 --> 02:04:13.239 about gt A, so but yeah, these kinds of dates 2802 02:04:13.279 --> 02:04:15.720 will be more common, although they've been more common in 2803 02:04:15.800 --> 02:04:18.159 general recently where people in that state's pretty late. But 2804 02:04:18.720 --> 02:04:21.680 you think that's what unforeseen circumstances means in the situations 2805 02:04:21.960 --> 02:04:24.920 is GT six Can we cannot handle g T A 2806 02:04:25.039 --> 02:04:30.199 six that actually rules? Did you guys see the photo 2807 02:04:30.239 --> 02:04:33.039 shoot stuff and the dancing doll man? How are you 2808 02:04:33.079 --> 02:04:35.640 feeling about dest ranting too and Kachin's latest efforts. 2809 02:04:35.800 --> 02:04:37.840 That doll guy. I'm into that dude. 2810 02:04:38.000 --> 02:04:40.039 He's he's a big fan of doll man. 2811 02:04:40.359 --> 02:04:41.359 Yeah, I wanted him to be. 2812 02:04:41.760 --> 02:04:44.640 It's like, remember the annoying head on your belt in 2813 02:04:44.920 --> 02:04:49.039 Ragnarok and he just was like, he's great. 2814 02:04:50.920 --> 02:04:52.399 It looks like that grounder is cracked. 2815 02:04:52.520 --> 02:04:53.319 Be you could jump through. 2816 02:04:53.359 --> 02:04:54.399 Shut up, let me beigure it out. 2817 02:04:54.960 --> 02:04:56.520 Story is not annoying? 2818 02:04:56.760 --> 02:05:00.279 Funny version of that for destranding to I I like 2819 02:05:00.359 --> 02:05:01.159 that doll dude a lot. 2820 02:05:01.319 --> 02:05:05.399 I feel like the PC version of Ragnarok had a toggle. 2821 02:05:05.159 --> 02:05:07.600 To like they did Slider. 2822 02:05:07.720 --> 02:05:07.920 Yeah. 2823 02:05:09.600 --> 02:05:11.399 I don't want to go against the wind too much here, 2824 02:05:11.439 --> 02:05:13.079 but I'm a little bum a little bit over all. 2825 02:05:13.159 --> 02:05:14.920 The god you're such a funny Dutch kind of over 2826 02:05:16.319 --> 02:05:18.399 you don't want to take fun polaroids of your friends 2827 02:05:18.560 --> 02:05:20.600 with me? Okay, No, one said they were into that. 2828 02:05:20.760 --> 02:05:21.600 Jan I don't want to be. 2829 02:05:23.119 --> 02:05:27.239 Like dude with a little doll. Gut we're off on 2830 02:05:27.319 --> 02:05:28.479 that one. I'm just gonna say it. 2831 02:05:29.079 --> 02:05:31.520 I don't know a Pokemon snap layas to do, but 2832 02:05:31.560 --> 02:05:32.840 I want to hang out with that doll dude. 2833 02:05:33.119 --> 02:05:36.039 Yeah, it does feel like he just didn't press the 2834 02:05:36.119 --> 02:05:38.479 button that makes all those ladies show their feet. That's 2835 02:05:38.560 --> 02:05:39.800 what that whole segment felt like. 2836 02:05:39.920 --> 02:05:44.000 It was very awkward, just trying to capture friendship. I 2837 02:05:44.039 --> 02:05:45.960 don't know why you're turning into something weird. 2838 02:05:46.760 --> 02:05:49.760 You're right, that's this is all on me. And then 2839 02:05:49.800 --> 02:05:51.680 Sony had their stay to play right after we did 2840 02:05:51.920 --> 02:05:54.319 BombCast last week. Go to Yota is coming in twenty 2841 02:05:54.439 --> 02:05:58.439 twenty five. Uh pstra but cld I wrote here DLC 2842 02:05:58.680 --> 02:06:01.760 is coming with five speed runs just this fall date. 2843 02:06:02.479 --> 02:06:06.039 Horizons zero Down Remastered is real. It's launching October thirty first, 2844 02:06:06.319 --> 02:06:08.560 and then other things look cool. Monster Hunter Wilds a 2845 02:06:08.680 --> 02:06:10.319 Lunar remastered collection. 2846 02:06:11.840 --> 02:06:15.760 Is awesome. I'm excited. Yeah, can I just say Horizon Okay, 2847 02:06:15.840 --> 02:06:17.479 so we all know. Horizon one came out the same 2848 02:06:17.520 --> 02:06:19.560 week as Breath of the Wild. Horizon two came out 2849 02:06:19.600 --> 02:06:22.399 same week of Eldin Ray Horizon remaster comes out same 2850 02:06:22.520 --> 02:06:23.960 day as Dragon Age four. 2851 02:06:24.199 --> 02:06:29.039 Yes, wow, they always find a way every time. Yeah, 2852 02:06:29.039 --> 02:06:31.680 Astrobo DLC continues to be the thing I'm most excited about. 2853 02:06:31.760 --> 02:06:34.960 But uh yeah, Ghost to Uta looked fantastic. It really 2854 02:06:35.079 --> 02:06:39.039 shod trailer. I have none like they show it like 2855 02:06:39.159 --> 02:06:41.359 Astro No no for Yote. 2856 02:06:42.039 --> 02:06:46.399 Yeah yeah school Yeah, female protagonist, which has some people 2857 02:06:46.520 --> 02:06:49.000 whining the usual sure. 2858 02:06:48.239 --> 02:06:51.239 Yeah, sure, okay, yeah, kind of already attacking the voice artist, 2859 02:06:51.319 --> 02:06:56.720 who seems incredible. Yeah, it takes place three hundred years later. 2860 02:06:57.239 --> 02:06:59.560 There are like muskets, I think there's like guns and 2861 02:06:59.560 --> 02:07:02.680 stuff like that. Yeah, so it's going to be, you know, 2862 02:07:02.760 --> 02:07:05.520 a spiritual sequel in a lot of ways. But yeah, no, 2863 02:07:06.000 --> 02:07:07.600 not a lot of connect the tissue beyond that, although 2864 02:07:07.600 --> 02:07:10.359 as far as we could tell, who knows. That is 2865 02:07:10.520 --> 02:07:13.119 probably a second half of the year game. I would 2866 02:07:13.159 --> 02:07:15.720 imagine next year, yes, right, which. 2867 02:07:15.640 --> 02:07:19.600 Is like depends on GTA is yeah, obviously yes, because 2868 02:07:19.600 --> 02:07:22.000 it's easy to imagine a world in which they either 2869 02:07:22.079 --> 02:07:25.520 bump it back or pull it forward depending when GTA, 2870 02:07:25.600 --> 02:07:27.720 Like if GTA is September, which I know, I have 2871 02:07:27.800 --> 02:07:29.520 a feeling it'll be delayed. I mean, this is not 2872 02:07:29.640 --> 02:07:34.199 a Butta game, but if if they're like GTA f 2873 02:07:34.239 --> 02:07:37.399 roxters like in March, GTA six is coming September whatever, 2874 02:07:38.159 --> 02:07:41.039 it's very easy to imagine sucker Punch like pulling their 2875 02:07:41.079 --> 02:07:44.079 game to August or pushing it to December or something 2876 02:07:44.159 --> 02:07:46.279 like that. Good. 2877 02:07:46.520 --> 02:07:47.760 I thought it was a pretty good state of play 2878 02:07:47.800 --> 02:07:50.199 just because of Ghost and Astrobot and stuff like that. 2879 02:07:50.279 --> 02:07:53.000 But how are you all feeling about Sony's slate overall? 2880 02:07:54.159 --> 02:07:56.199 I continue to be like, Hey, we're kicking it off 2881 02:07:56.239 --> 02:07:57.600 with Ghost Uta. I bet there's a lot of other 2882 02:07:57.640 --> 02:07:58.640 stuff in the works coming soon. 2883 02:07:58.720 --> 02:08:01.439 Yeah, there's some interesting stuff in terms of like big things, though, 2884 02:08:01.880 --> 02:08:04.119 you're desjointing two and I'll go so Yota, and it 2885 02:08:04.159 --> 02:08:06.560 seems like to me those are both probably second half 2886 02:08:06.600 --> 02:08:08.760 twenty twenty five games, so it could be kind of 2887 02:08:08.920 --> 02:08:10.439 and there's already been a lot of these. It seems 2888 02:08:10.439 --> 02:08:12.560 like it could be another pretty big drought in terms 2889 02:08:12.560 --> 02:08:16.199 of big first party PlayStation studios releases until we get 2890 02:08:16.199 --> 02:08:17.720 to that second half of twenty twenty five. 2891 02:08:17.760 --> 02:08:21.239 Again, I don't know why I've suddenly become Horizon curious 2892 02:08:22.199 --> 02:08:24.880 what happens play play the Lego game. It's really funny. 2893 02:08:25.319 --> 02:08:29.399 Okay, when you hit a certain age jam, most men 2894 02:08:30.680 --> 02:08:33.520 go through certain changes and become little Horizon curious. 2895 02:08:33.880 --> 02:08:35.960 They acknowledge their regrets in life. Absolutely. 2896 02:08:36.079 --> 02:08:39.640 The real question that I'm asking is is Naughty Dog 2897 02:08:39.800 --> 02:08:41.560 going to miss this generation? 2898 02:08:41.840 --> 02:08:44.600 Yeah? We've been wondering that constantly. We bring that up 2899 02:08:44.600 --> 02:08:46.439 in pretty much every time we talk about Sony. It's like, 2900 02:08:46.479 --> 02:08:48.560 we could go through this whole generation without a Naughty 2901 02:08:48.600 --> 02:08:52.520 Dog game, and that feels like like an actual distinct possibility. 2902 02:08:52.760 --> 02:08:55.920 I get that things are have exponentially gotten more expensive 2903 02:08:55.960 --> 02:08:57.720 to able to make, but is wild to me that 2904 02:08:57.760 --> 02:09:00.600 we could go from a PlayStation three with four major 2905 02:09:00.840 --> 02:09:05.800 giant Naughty Dog releases to now zero in a console generation. 2906 02:09:06.000 --> 02:09:09.399 You have some things like remakes and remasters. It's nice, 2907 02:09:09.479 --> 02:09:11.600 but man, is that a problem. 2908 02:09:12.039 --> 02:09:13.920 I mean, that's what happens in P three with so 2909 02:09:14.000 --> 02:09:16.359 many years into an online game that doesn't happen. 2910 02:09:16.520 --> 02:09:19.800 Yeah, you're saying PS three had four yeah, all three 2911 02:09:19.880 --> 02:09:23.560 uncharteds and last of Us Yeah wow. 2912 02:09:24.079 --> 02:09:24.279 Yeah. 2913 02:09:24.279 --> 02:09:26.279 I mean a lot of factors here, right, Like one 2914 02:09:26.439 --> 02:09:29.720 is that people were crunching a lot more in the 2915 02:09:29.840 --> 02:09:34.239 mid two thousands than they hopefully are today. And another 2916 02:09:34.479 --> 02:09:37.119 is that, yeah, like the the costs are just so 2917 02:09:37.319 --> 02:09:42.119 astronomical these days. And the thing is like a lot 2918 02:09:42.159 --> 02:09:45.239 of these companies they hire more people to get like 2919 02:09:45.319 --> 02:09:47.520 the graphical fidelity up and to get to try to 2920 02:09:47.640 --> 02:09:49.800 produce a lot more content for their games, and hiring 2921 02:09:49.840 --> 02:09:52.760 more people can make games even slower to make because 2922 02:09:52.800 --> 02:09:55.800 you have this like these communication challenges and all of 2923 02:09:55.880 --> 02:09:58.800 this middle management you have to install, and it can 2924 02:09:58.880 --> 02:10:01.279 create all sorts of like blocks in the pipe. 2925 02:10:01.079 --> 02:10:03.199 And it creates like a need for these remasters to 2926 02:10:03.279 --> 02:10:06.159 sort of train people on their processes, and so it 2927 02:10:06.279 --> 02:10:08.119 takes even longer because these things start to get in 2928 02:10:08.119 --> 02:10:09.600 the way when they were supposed to be the solution. 2929 02:10:10.720 --> 02:10:12.439 And you combine that with the fact that like a 2930 02:10:12.680 --> 02:10:15.479 team might spend seven years on a suicide squad and 2931 02:10:15.560 --> 02:10:19.119 then it completely flops, and it's just like, yeah, we 2932 02:10:19.199 --> 02:10:22.479 talked earlier about lack of sustainability in the video game industry. 2933 02:10:22.560 --> 02:10:24.439 I mean, yeah, you have this is it? Yeah, this 2934 02:10:24.600 --> 02:10:27.560 is this is all that like just in one spot. 2935 02:10:28.840 --> 02:10:30.560 All right, Jane, I'm gonna say that does it for 2936 02:10:30.680 --> 02:10:32.279 the news. I'mone hand the show back over to you. 2937 02:10:32.399 --> 02:10:36.000 Bud Oki dokie this this podcast is getting a little cranky. 2938 02:10:36.039 --> 02:10:38.000 It needs to take a quick little nap and then 2939 02:10:38.079 --> 02:10:42.239 we'll read one email, uh and the show. It better 2940 02:10:42.319 --> 02:10:54.960 be a good one right after this. Emails Pomcasti giant 2941 02:10:54.960 --> 02:10:56.880 bomb dot com is the email address to send your 2942 02:10:56.920 --> 02:10:59.920 emails to Please, for the love of God, stop fucking 2943 02:11:00.079 --> 02:11:02.279 signing us up for so many lists. This is my 2944 02:11:02.520 --> 02:11:05.720 actual public cry for help to stop. 2945 02:11:06.439 --> 02:11:08.800 And this is when you have learned that you cannot 2946 02:11:08.880 --> 02:11:10.840 acknowledge it. You have to ignore it. It is a 2947 02:11:10.960 --> 02:11:13.560 temper tantrum they're throwing and you just have to pretend 2948 02:11:13.600 --> 02:11:14.239 it doesn't exist. 2949 02:11:14.479 --> 02:11:17.760 In one in a span of five minutes, we got 2950 02:11:17.800 --> 02:11:20.079 signed up for ten different newsletters and then I had 2951 02:11:20.119 --> 02:11:22.199 to go in and unsubscribe us because this is the 2952 02:11:22.279 --> 02:11:23.039 reaction they want. 2953 02:11:23.399 --> 02:11:23.720 This is it. 2954 02:11:23.840 --> 02:11:26.279 They love mentioning it. Yeah, triggers more. 2955 02:11:26.960 --> 02:11:28.680 I'm just going to try a new style of parenting. 2956 02:11:28.720 --> 02:11:30.439 It's gonna work. This is work. 2957 02:11:30.479 --> 02:11:30.680 This is it. 2958 02:11:30.720 --> 02:11:32.439 You're gonna break break after lipshits. 2959 02:11:33.000 --> 02:11:36.239 Yeah, yes, all right, And we just got signed up 2960 02:11:36.319 --> 02:11:38.520 for three more fishing magazines. 2961 02:11:38.920 --> 02:11:40.600 Yeah, I really, I'm going. 2962 02:11:40.520 --> 02:11:42.720 To really get into fishing, like in about fifteen years. 2963 02:11:42.720 --> 02:11:42.920 I think. 2964 02:11:43.439 --> 02:11:46.439 I can't wait, Mikey, I will have a newsletter printed 2965 02:11:46.479 --> 02:11:49.359 out ready for you to go. Oh yeah, all right. 2966 02:11:49.479 --> 02:11:52.079 The one email we will read for this show is 2967 02:11:52.880 --> 02:11:54.880 a hot dog is the natural enemy of the hamburger? 2968 02:11:55.119 --> 02:11:57.720 Sent from my Verizon Samsung Galaxy smartphone. 2969 02:11:59.279 --> 02:11:59.560 That's it. 2970 02:12:01.520 --> 02:12:03.520 I don't read two email. 2971 02:12:06.119 --> 02:12:09.760 I feel like they can collaborate, their their their buddies. 2972 02:12:09.840 --> 02:12:10.640 They together. 2973 02:12:10.880 --> 02:12:13.880 I think, like the burgers is it's ego has gone 2974 02:12:13.920 --> 02:12:15.319 too big. You know, we get a smash. 2975 02:12:15.439 --> 02:12:17.319 Their natural enemy of a burger is a salad. 2976 02:12:17.720 --> 02:12:20.079 Ever, was this a thing that everyone had when they 2977 02:12:20.079 --> 02:12:22.079 were a kid, or is it just my dad? He 2978 02:12:22.119 --> 02:12:23.479 didn't make a lot of stuff at him where he 2979 02:12:23.479 --> 02:12:26.600 would take two hot dogs, okay, and he would slice it. 2980 02:12:26.720 --> 02:12:28.520 I haven't thought of this in forever. Two hot dogs 2981 02:12:28.560 --> 02:12:32.079 and slice them the long way, flop them open, throw 2982 02:12:32.119 --> 02:12:33.800 them on a bun, and throw a slice of cheese 2983 02:12:33.880 --> 02:12:39.279 on it. And that's kind of like a hot dog cheeseburger, right, yeah, right, 2984 02:12:39.960 --> 02:12:41.119 second cheeseburger form. 2985 02:12:41.439 --> 02:12:44.279 It's fine, that's just like a hot dog. 2986 02:12:44.800 --> 02:12:46.840 Two hot dogs. But when you slice them the long 2987 02:12:46.880 --> 02:12:49.479 way and flop them open, there's hot dogs next to 2988 02:12:49.520 --> 02:12:51.079 each other. Do you need to make a burger. I 2989 02:12:51.119 --> 02:12:51.920 don't think that makes the. 2990 02:12:52.000 --> 02:12:55.359 Move, but flopped open, so it's like it's form widthwise, you. 2991 02:12:55.399 --> 02:12:58.800 Could still use one hot dog, cut them hot dog 2992 02:12:58.880 --> 02:13:01.239 style and then hamburger style to make a raft of 2993 02:13:01.359 --> 02:13:04.239 four hot dogs, and then that's a hamburger raft. 2994 02:13:04.399 --> 02:13:07.119 Yeah, hot dog. 2995 02:13:07.560 --> 02:13:11.159 There's a famous restaurant near me called Walter's hot Dogs 2996 02:13:11.199 --> 02:13:13.920 here in Mamarnick, New York. And what they do is 2997 02:13:13.960 --> 02:13:16.000 they cut the hot dog open and then like grill 2998 02:13:16.079 --> 02:13:19.399 it on butter and then serve it un abundance. 2999 02:13:19.840 --> 02:13:23.079 There was a good hot dogs that really good. 3000 02:13:23.079 --> 02:13:25.640 And then also I assume at least some of you 3001 02:13:25.800 --> 02:13:28.920 watched The Sopranos. The Sopranos has a truly disgusting moment 3002 02:13:28.960 --> 02:13:33.239 where Carmela makes for for a j Twinkie hot dog sandwich, 3003 02:13:33.800 --> 02:13:35.920 which is a Twinkie cut open and then like a 3004 02:13:35.960 --> 02:13:38.039 hot dog in its. 3005 02:13:37.359 --> 02:13:41.039 Gross don't don't not until you try it. I'm okay. 3006 02:13:41.119 --> 02:13:43.159 Actually, do hot dogs come fully cooked? 3007 02:13:44.920 --> 02:13:45.119 Yeah? 3008 02:13:45.840 --> 02:13:47.359 Yeah, yeah, get them up. 3009 02:13:47.640 --> 02:13:51.920 Yeah. I used to microwave in college, but like bacteria 3010 02:13:52.119 --> 02:13:55.000 does not choose the hot dog naturally, so yeah, you're 3011 02:13:55.000 --> 02:13:55.640 probably fine. 3012 02:13:55.920 --> 02:13:58.520 Okay, So I could because I've never most of the 3013 02:13:58.600 --> 02:14:01.560 time I haven't made me and god, you know twenty 3014 02:14:01.640 --> 02:14:04.359 plus years probably so like I but I'm afraid of it, 3015 02:14:05.039 --> 02:14:06.600 like salmonella stuff, and I. 3016 02:14:06.680 --> 02:14:08.760 Know you're not gonna find like I get salmonilla from 3017 02:14:08.800 --> 02:14:09.479 your hot dogs. 3018 02:14:10.199 --> 02:14:12.399 I gotta thank doctor Ryan. And chat is that twinkie 3019 02:14:12.439 --> 02:14:14.359 thing sounded so familiar to me? And I've never seen 3020 02:14:14.399 --> 02:14:16.720 the Sopranos and it was in You Ain't Chef the 3021 02:14:16.800 --> 02:14:17.560 weird al movies. 3022 02:14:17.640 --> 02:14:18.760 Oh yeah, you know. 3023 02:14:18.840 --> 02:14:21.880 Maybe maybe on Sopranos is Devil Dogs. I don't remember exactly. 3024 02:14:22.079 --> 02:14:24.800 But anyway, Dan, have you when you say even made meat? 3025 02:14:24.960 --> 02:14:26.520 Are you saying that Bianca makes all the meat? 3026 02:14:26.560 --> 02:14:27.199 Are you are? 3027 02:14:27.439 --> 02:14:27.479 No? 3028 02:14:27.840 --> 02:14:30.760 No, we different things, And like I have like a 3029 02:14:31.159 --> 02:14:33.920 meal service thing that I just all of my dinners 3030 02:14:33.960 --> 02:14:35.600 are just from this like meal service thing. It just 3031 02:14:35.720 --> 02:14:38.640 shows up in the maimatch every single thing. 3032 02:14:38.800 --> 02:14:40.520 I would talk to you about your food habits for 3033 02:14:40.600 --> 02:14:43.119 like a two hour podcasts every week because every well. 3034 02:14:43.439 --> 02:14:48.600 You should listen to this week's voicemail, dump trunk, next ye, reaction, next. 3035 02:14:48.720 --> 02:14:53.119 Week, next next week, next week, Okay, yes, yeah, I 3036 02:14:53.199 --> 02:14:56.680 mean the only thing I'm comfortable doing these days. Cooking wise, 3037 02:14:56.880 --> 02:14:59.920 is that casey Joe's barbecue that like comes fully cooked 3038 02:15:00.319 --> 02:15:03.920 and literally all your bag is like boil water and 3039 02:15:04.039 --> 02:15:05.760 then just throw it in and let it sit for. 3040 02:15:05.760 --> 02:15:07.199 Twenty minutes in the bag. 3041 02:15:07.319 --> 02:15:07.520 Yeah. 3042 02:15:07.680 --> 02:15:10.159 Even the like turning on the stove part is like 3043 02:15:10.439 --> 02:15:12.800 kind of scares me to do if Punk's not home. So, 3044 02:15:14.000 --> 02:15:15.560 but the thing is you get to turn it off 3045 02:15:15.640 --> 02:15:17.039 and then it just sits in the hot water for 3046 02:15:17.119 --> 02:15:18.920 twenty minutes, So it's like, okay, there's not like an 3047 02:15:18.960 --> 02:15:20.199 active flame for twenty minutes. 3048 02:15:20.199 --> 02:15:21.079 That would probably be too much. 3049 02:15:21.640 --> 02:15:24.159 Can you describe to me the process of boiling an egg? 3050 02:15:25.159 --> 02:15:26.000 What do you think it is. 3051 02:15:27.079 --> 02:15:28.199 Boiling an egg? 3052 02:15:28.439 --> 02:15:28.479 So? 3053 02:15:28.680 --> 02:15:30.199 Is that hard boiled? Soft boiled? 3054 02:15:30.239 --> 02:15:31.520 What is that? Either one? 3055 02:15:32.399 --> 02:15:34.000 Does it make a difference if I never had no 3056 02:15:34.239 --> 02:15:36.159 hard boiled oiled, Dan, I don't think I've had hard 3057 02:15:36.159 --> 02:15:37.039 boiled or soft ooil. 3058 02:15:37.079 --> 02:15:38.079 Did they look the same. 3059 02:15:40.279 --> 02:15:40.520 Form? 3060 02:15:42.000 --> 02:15:45.800 Yeah, both hard boiled and a soft boiled both looks 3061 02:15:46.039 --> 02:15:48.359 like an egg, yeah, yeah, showing everything. 3062 02:15:48.439 --> 02:15:50.560 Yeah, but that soft oiled is like a looser yolk 3063 02:15:50.560 --> 02:15:50.960 in the middle. 3064 02:15:51.039 --> 02:15:51.840 Yes, a looser yolk. 3065 02:15:51.880 --> 02:15:52.760 It'll be less cut. 3066 02:15:53.359 --> 02:15:59.800 You probably boil water and then salt in it. So 3067 02:16:00.079 --> 02:16:01.439 doesn't stick to the bottom. 3068 02:16:02.359 --> 02:16:05.800 That's okay, you're. 3069 02:16:06.720 --> 02:16:06.960 Salt. 3070 02:16:08.039 --> 02:16:10.000 Actual cooking I know how to do is like I 3071 02:16:10.119 --> 02:16:12.399 do the velveto shells and cheese. Now I know to 3072 02:16:12.399 --> 02:16:13.880 put a little bit of salt in there so the 3073 02:16:14.000 --> 02:16:14.800 noodles don't stick. 3074 02:16:14.920 --> 02:16:18.640 No season the noodles has nothing to do with sticking 3075 02:16:18.760 --> 02:16:20.319 to the bottom. What are you talking about? 3076 02:16:20.399 --> 02:16:24.199 But the salted This might be an urban legend, but 3077 02:16:24.520 --> 02:16:26.760 the salt in the water can help you peel the 3078 02:16:26.840 --> 02:16:28.279 shell more, I believe. 3079 02:16:28.640 --> 02:16:28.920 Okay. 3080 02:16:28.960 --> 02:16:30.880 I thought I was keep it from sticking on the 3081 02:16:31.760 --> 02:16:33.920 to the bottom of the bottom. 3082 02:16:35.840 --> 02:16:37.600 Something will only stick to the bottom of the pan 3083 02:16:37.920 --> 02:16:40.360 if you run out of water, they can kind of 3084 02:16:41.440 --> 02:16:41.959 on the bottom. 3085 02:16:42.200 --> 02:16:43.319 Do I need to do this thing? 3086 02:16:43.399 --> 02:16:44.879 Do I need to put the salt in there? It 3087 02:16:45.000 --> 02:16:49.479 seasons the noodles. Even water, wouldn't it come off in 3088 02:16:49.520 --> 02:16:50.000 the draining. 3089 02:16:50.399 --> 02:16:53.559 So noodles absorb the water when they cook, that's why 3090 02:16:53.600 --> 02:16:55.680 they're holding And. 3091 02:16:55.719 --> 02:16:57.840 If it's salty water, then it absorbs the salt. 3092 02:16:57.959 --> 02:17:00.639 Also. Oh that's cool, okay, So I should do more. 3093 02:17:00.719 --> 02:17:01.079 I can do it. 3094 02:17:01.360 --> 02:17:03.959 I didn't know it was impacting the taste, that's very much. 3095 02:17:04.040 --> 02:17:05.799 So can I put like garlic salt in there. 3096 02:17:07.479 --> 02:17:10.000 I would do that after Yeah, but what if I 3097 02:17:10.040 --> 02:17:10.799 want to infuse it? 3098 02:17:11.000 --> 02:17:13.520 Like if it's like suck it, you're losing a lot 3099 02:17:13.600 --> 02:17:14.159 of the flavor. 3100 02:17:14.360 --> 02:17:17.719 I mean, like what you should do, like is finish 3101 02:17:17.959 --> 02:17:18.760 all of your pasta. 3102 02:17:19.040 --> 02:17:21.360 You should cook your pasta like a minute before or 3103 02:17:21.399 --> 02:17:23.840 two before you think it's actually done, and then finish 3104 02:17:23.920 --> 02:17:26.239 cooking it in the warm sauce because it'll absorb some 3105 02:17:26.360 --> 02:17:27.719 of whatever that sauce is. 3106 02:17:27.760 --> 02:17:32.360 And yes, that is the it's it's slipped back. Who's weirder? 3107 02:17:32.520 --> 02:17:35.239 Dan Reikert with forty four, Mike Minaughti with twelve, and 3108 02:17:35.360 --> 02:17:36.520 Jason Trier with three. 3109 02:17:37.799 --> 02:17:39.719 Okay, I mean this is a new like I honestly 3110 02:17:39.840 --> 02:17:42.959 between the Casey Joe's barbecue and the velveta shells and 3111 02:17:43.040 --> 02:17:46.000 cheese thing, this is the most I've like cooked in decades. 3112 02:17:46.920 --> 02:17:49.680 That is Casey j'es. Is that the barbecue we had 3113 02:17:49.760 --> 02:17:51.360 when I came to your house a couple of years ago. 3114 02:17:51.479 --> 02:17:54.399 Yeah, that's yes. You can get it delivered and they 3115 02:17:54.559 --> 02:17:57.120 delivered with dry ice and it's frozen in the bags 3116 02:17:57.399 --> 02:17:58.840 And he's right, you just throw the bags in the 3117 02:17:58.879 --> 02:18:00.520 boiling water. And that's why I'm going to do that 3118 02:18:00.600 --> 02:18:01.479 every year for Christmas. 3119 02:18:01.520 --> 02:18:05.319 Now it's dan when when we're all in town for 3120 02:18:05.360 --> 02:18:07.760 the Game Awards, We're going you and I are going 3121 02:18:07.840 --> 02:18:10.760 to make fried rice together. I would love that. I 3122 02:18:10.799 --> 02:18:13.479 love fried rice and it's just an easy thing. We're 3123 02:18:13.479 --> 02:18:15.920 going to walk through the process. Don't worry about anything. 3124 02:18:16.000 --> 02:18:17.000 No google for eggs. 3125 02:18:17.280 --> 02:18:19.239 Don't be scared when you see the eggs I put 3126 02:18:19.280 --> 02:18:22.200 eggs and fried rice that you got to Yeah. 3127 02:18:22.239 --> 02:18:24.040 I usually screwed out aside when I get trying to 3128 02:18:24.120 --> 02:18:26.959 use food, I realized I don't know how the eggs. 3129 02:18:27.120 --> 02:18:29.479 I like the peas and the eggs. 3130 02:18:29.520 --> 02:18:31.639 I just kind of like shove them over to the side, 3131 02:18:31.840 --> 02:18:33.920 and if there are any visible onions, I'll do that. 3132 02:18:34.559 --> 02:18:38.120 But would get along well with my five year old. 3133 02:18:39.600 --> 02:18:44.639 He wouldn't actually he would be for your children at 3134 02:18:44.680 --> 02:18:46.959 all when he was at my house, Jason, he was 3135 02:18:47.680 --> 02:18:50.440 the five year old. Specifically, she would be like, hey, 3136 02:18:50.479 --> 02:18:52.000 look at the sonic doll that I love and be 3137 02:18:52.079 --> 02:18:54.920 like that's Mario and she lost her mind and he 3138 02:18:54.959 --> 02:18:57.479 would not let it go, and she wouldn't actually. 3139 02:18:57.440 --> 02:19:00.920 Protected the whole time I was there, I didn't fucking 3140 02:19:01.040 --> 02:19:05.879 break kay fame. Once she actually lost them before he did, 3141 02:19:05.959 --> 02:19:10.079 which should tell you because like his daughter was screaming 3142 02:19:10.399 --> 02:19:11.840 at the top for lungs and I turned to grab 3143 02:19:11.879 --> 02:19:12.879 I was like, I'm sorry, I can't. 3144 02:19:12.959 --> 02:19:13.879 I have to protect the business. 3145 02:19:13.920 --> 02:19:15.319 I can't, like I'm not ever going to get the. 3146 02:19:17.120 --> 02:19:19.479 We We can't gloss over the fact that Dan said 3147 02:19:19.520 --> 02:19:21.799 the sentence, I don't know how rice happens. 3148 02:19:23.319 --> 02:19:26.559 Which are well, I think at no step along the line. 3149 02:19:26.600 --> 02:19:28.239 I don't know where it comes from. I don't know 3150 02:19:28.319 --> 02:19:30.520 how you cook it. I don't know how it gets soft. 3151 02:19:31.040 --> 02:19:33.159 I don't know how you flavor it. What we learned 3152 02:19:33.200 --> 02:19:35.600 this week we learned I love Rice. 3153 02:19:36.479 --> 02:19:38.959 We learned that Jason Schreyer is releasing a book next 3154 02:19:39.040 --> 02:19:41.760 week called Play Nice The Rise Fall in Future of 3155 02:19:41.840 --> 02:19:43.719 Blizzard Entertainment out next. 3156 02:19:43.639 --> 02:19:47.159 Week October eighth. Where Rice comes from and then comes 3157 02:19:47.200 --> 02:19:47.520 from you. 3158 02:19:47.680 --> 02:19:52.239 Shred up my book into trees. It's actually called play Rice. 3159 02:19:56.639 --> 02:20:00.000 You did it? Jason's Rice Grow in America? 3160 02:20:00.079 --> 02:20:04.000 Uh, Jason work? Can folks find you on the internet? 3161 02:20:04.440 --> 02:20:07.280 Where can folks pre order the book? Once again? Yeah? 3162 02:20:07.360 --> 02:20:10.280 You can find me on the Triple Click podcast, which 3163 02:20:10.399 --> 02:20:12.920 I'm about to record in like an hour. And I'm 3164 02:20:12.959 --> 02:20:16.680 just gonna be completely drained. So that's gonna be fun. Sorry, 3165 02:20:17.200 --> 02:20:20.479 this entire week for me is just a blur. So 3166 02:20:20.639 --> 02:20:22.280 go check out Triple Click. We just made a super 3167 02:20:22.280 --> 02:20:24.079 cool announcement where which is that me and my co 3168 02:20:24.159 --> 02:20:26.719 host Kirk Hamilton and Madda Myers we are doing a 3169 02:20:26.799 --> 02:20:29.760 three part like standalone kidnapped Matt Mercer, the kidnapped members 3170 02:20:29.799 --> 02:20:31.799 that we're doing a D and D campaign And we 3171 02:20:31.920 --> 02:20:35.000 were like, hey, we want to get a DM, why 3172 02:20:35.040 --> 02:20:36.760 don't we just get the best DM in the world, 3173 02:20:36.840 --> 02:20:38.600 And so we call that Met Mercer got him to 3174 02:20:38.680 --> 02:20:40.399 come and do it for us. So that's gonna be 3175 02:20:40.440 --> 02:20:43.239 super cool. And then uh yeah, the book play nice. 3176 02:20:43.319 --> 02:20:45.280 You can get it in stores, pre order it at 3177 02:20:45.280 --> 02:20:48.319 any store, any bookstore or Amazon or whatever you want. 3178 02:20:49.040 --> 02:20:52.000 Also digital version and audio version. I know a lot 3179 02:20:52.040 --> 02:20:54.319 of a lot of people are into audio. Fun fact, 3180 02:20:54.479 --> 02:20:56.920 like so many people are buying audio books these days 3181 02:20:56.959 --> 02:21:00.399 that it's like almost comparable to print sale. It's like 3182 02:21:00.479 --> 02:21:02.120 a huge chunk of the book market. 3183 02:21:02.360 --> 02:21:05.680 I'm a big audiobook It's great you listen. 3184 02:21:05.479 --> 02:21:07.399 To audiobook while you're driving, you can listen while you're 3185 02:21:07.399 --> 02:21:10.040 playing games. It's really cool. And also like my book 3186 02:21:10.079 --> 02:21:11.479 happens to come out the same day as a new 3187 02:21:11.520 --> 02:21:14.399 Diablo four expansion, so you can listen to it while 3188 02:21:14.440 --> 02:21:17.399 you play Diaba four, which I think is perfect. So yeah, 3189 02:21:17.520 --> 02:21:18.600 Ray Chase, like I said. 3190 02:21:18.479 --> 02:21:20.799 Before, is the narrator. 3191 02:21:20.959 --> 02:21:24.040 He's really really good. I love his work and he's 3192 02:21:24.120 --> 02:21:26.200 really good reading the book. So you can go check 3193 02:21:26.239 --> 02:21:26.600 that out too. 3194 02:21:27.159 --> 02:21:30.200 Awesome, fantastic, Jason, sir, thank you for joining us on 3195 02:21:30.360 --> 02:21:31.040 the show today. 3196 02:21:31.280 --> 02:21:35.040 Thanks for having me guys. Thanks please, if we can 3197 02:21:35.120 --> 02:21:38.479 schedule like a two hour just let's talk to Dan about. 3198 02:21:38.319 --> 02:21:42.639 Food and his and we'll make it happen. I've been 3199 02:21:43.399 --> 02:21:46.399 for the last five minutes. I said, it's a semi 3200 02:21:46.479 --> 02:21:49.319 aquatic plant. What does that mean to you? 3201 02:21:49.600 --> 02:21:52.520 That makes me think it's like seaweed? It doesn't grow underwater? 3202 02:21:52.600 --> 02:21:52.799 Does it? 3203 02:21:52.920 --> 02:21:53.760 Semi aquatic? 3204 02:21:54.239 --> 02:21:57.920 Semi aquatic? So a little bit, it's like amphibious. Yeah, 3205 02:21:58.479 --> 02:22:05.760 it doesn't climb onto the land. Okay, what's the rice 3206 02:22:06.280 --> 02:22:08.520 infrastructure week here at dot com? 3207 02:22:08.559 --> 02:22:15.360 I don't have any calories, cake, I'm thinking of different. 3208 02:22:15.799 --> 02:22:19.799 Let's see it very another episode of the Giant Podcast. 3209 02:22:20.760 --> 02:22:27.799 Thank your special guests, Jason. With these oh crap, they're 3210 02:22:27.879 --> 02:22:32.280 like crap no with ds, now with ease. I'm sorry. 3211 02:22:32.319 --> 02:22:40.479 What do you say now with these nuts? Let's podcast 3212 02:22:41.200 --> 02:22:41.760 somebody