1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:00,920 Speaker 1: You know, we do talk. 2 00:00:01,199 --> 00:00:02,799 Speaker 2: We know a lot of people in the industry listen 3 00:00:02,879 --> 00:00:04,400 to the show in the music industry, and we like 4 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,719 to like to talk about things going on in the 5 00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:10,960 music industry. Unfortunately, a lot of what does go on 6 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,960 in the music industry that is particularly fascinating is it 7 00:00:15,039 --> 00:00:17,399 often has to do with people suing each other. 8 00:00:17,839 --> 00:00:21,039 Speaker 1: You know, I had put way back, remember when we 9 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:21,879 did the segment. 10 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 2: About Don Henley suing someone, because Don Henley is very litigious, 11 00:00:29,039 --> 00:00:31,640 that segment I had, I had clipped it and put 12 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:33,119 it up on YouTube. 13 00:00:33,079 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: And that is by far. 14 00:00:35,439 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 2: The most listened to segment that we've ever done on 15 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:42,600 the show. That still gets views on the YouTube, uh, 16 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:44,280 on our on our YouTube channel. 17 00:00:44,399 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: But what is what has been happening? 18 00:00:46,719 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 2: So there's a little bit of new information here on 19 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:53,840 this particular subject. You know, the band Limp Biscuit, they 20 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,119 were they first got very big in the nineties and 21 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,479 you know, they've had a resurgence and they do very 22 00:00:59,479 --> 00:01:03,600 well when they tour. And that that song was that 23 00:01:03,679 --> 00:01:07,560 song Dad Vibes, Uh maybe a year ago, maybe maybe longer, 24 00:01:07,599 --> 00:01:09,400 maybe two years ago now that I really like it 25 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,799 was kind of kind of a comeback single. Maybe a 26 00:01:11,879 --> 00:01:14,879 year and a half ago, but yeah, you know I was. 27 00:01:15,159 --> 00:01:17,599 I was kind of a fan of Limp Biscuit. Uh 28 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,079 back in the day too. I was in a band 29 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,840 called I was in a band called the Jinx and 30 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:27,640 wait was it in the Jinkster in My Life Crisis. 31 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,879 Our singer Rhino Ryan Pope, he would well. At one 32 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,799 point we were covering the song break Stuff, and I 33 00:01:35,879 --> 00:01:38,400 wasn't a big fan of doing covers in the bands 34 00:01:38,439 --> 00:01:40,200 I was in because I felt that our originals were 35 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:41,840 strong enough we didn't need to do a lot of covers. 36 00:01:41,879 --> 00:01:44,480 But they talked the guys talked me into doing break 37 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,920 Stuff and the breakdown in that song where Fred Durst 38 00:01:48,959 --> 00:01:54,519 gets really intense and like really angry. Uh, Ryan would 39 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,640 like would like turn red. He would get so into 40 00:01:57,680 --> 00:01:59,239 it and get so into that part of the song. 41 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,239 It was fun anyway. So part of why this is 42 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,159 so fascinating to me is this is not an uncommon tale. 43 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:07,560 What we're going to talk about. If you don't know 44 00:02:07,599 --> 00:02:12,879 about about this, Limp Biscuit is suing their record label 45 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,919 UMG Universal Music Group for two hundred million dollars in 46 00:02:18,199 --> 00:02:24,199 unpaid royalties. Now artists having to sue their record label. 47 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,840 For unpaid royalties is not in and of itself a 48 00:02:27,879 --> 00:02:33,840 new story, but for two hundred million dollars is pretty 49 00:02:34,159 --> 00:02:39,879 staggering because what has happened is, according to Fred Durst 50 00:02:40,319 --> 00:02:47,919 and his representation, Universal Music Group never paid Lympiscuit anything 51 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,039 after selling millions and millions and millions of albums. 52 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 3: But they're claiming that's not true. 53 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:58,039 Speaker 1: UMG, Well of course they are. 54 00:02:58,319 --> 00:03:02,199 Speaker 4: UMG says they Paidlympus get one point zero three million 55 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,360 dollars in back royalties in August of twenty twenty four. Yes, 56 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:10,960 after uh after wait, after the fact, yeah, yeah, after backwards. 57 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 2: After after fred Durst spoke up and said, hey, I 58 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,360 think you guys owe us some money. Yeah, so they finally, 59 00:03:16,599 --> 00:03:19,520 But olymp Biscuit is alleging they owe they owe them 60 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:24,120 two hundred million or or a lower number plus damages 61 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:25,879 however that works out. 62 00:03:26,439 --> 00:03:30,039 Speaker 1: Now. Unfortunately, this is not an uncommon tale. Though. 63 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,479 Speaker 2: There's a there's a term I learned recently, spaghetti accounting, 64 00:03:36,039 --> 00:03:40,199 and it's a way that these big labels and you know, 65 00:03:40,439 --> 00:03:44,479 and you even hear stories with smaller labels, independent labels, 66 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,199 but hopefully a lot less because you don't you don't 67 00:03:47,199 --> 00:03:52,680 want to hear those stories because, uh, those stories are unpleasant, 68 00:03:53,479 --> 00:03:55,840 you know, because you know, especially in a venue like this, 69 00:03:55,919 --> 00:03:57,439 we always advocate for artists. 70 00:03:57,879 --> 00:03:59,879 Speaker 1: But but it's not. 71 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,919 Speaker 2: Unusual for U record labels and other entities within the 72 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:09,039 music industry to use some creative accounting, shall we say, 73 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:10,159 or spaghetti accounting. 74 00:04:10,159 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: That's a term that I just learned recently. And I 75 00:04:12,159 --> 00:04:14,919 learned that term for me. Yeah, oh, spaghetti accounting. 76 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:16,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean I like spaghetti, but I don't 77 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,439 think I'm a fan of spaghetti accounting. 78 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 3: Must accounting when they get messy. 79 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 2: I think that's the idea, so that way it's hard 80 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,639 to figure out, uh, where all. 81 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,959 Speaker 1: That money went. I learned that term from. 82 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 2: There's a YouTuber that I really like, uh who we've 83 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:38,079 talked about taught music attorney and or law tuber. That's 84 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,759 another term I learned recently, which is a a lawyer 85 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:43,839 who youtubes does youtubing. 86 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: What is it law tuber? 87 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:47,079 Speaker 3: Law tuber. 88 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: Yes, there's a lot of law tubers. They're they're lawyers 89 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:49,920 who do. 90 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,439 Speaker 3: We have to keep making up new works, like. 91 00:04:52,079 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 2: Like the Might's Touched that, like the Might's Touch Network, 92 00:04:54,319 --> 00:04:57,920 which we're fans of, you know, they're law tubers. So yes, 93 00:04:57,959 --> 00:05:00,439 there's always new term. Young people are always coming up 94 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:05,600 with new terms. Anyway, what was the one that I knew? 95 00:05:05,639 --> 00:05:06,639 Speaker 1: There was a term that I. 96 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 2: Knew that that DJ Reckless didn't know, and I was like, 97 00:05:10,759 --> 00:05:11,480 how do I know this? 98 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:12,399 Speaker 1: And you don't. 99 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 3: Remember what it was? 100 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:14,519 Speaker 4: Oh? 101 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 2: It was thought th h O T And I'm not 102 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:18,519 gonna say and I'm not gonna say on the air 103 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:19,079 what it means. 104 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:20,519 Speaker 1: But I was stunned. 105 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 3: I don't even remember. 106 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 2: I'll tell you off, but I was stunned that he 107 00:05:27,079 --> 00:05:29,079 that he didn't know what that meant and I did. 108 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,800 But anyway, but it's not it's not a nice uh 109 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:32,959 it's not a nice term. 110 00:05:33,079 --> 00:05:38,759 Speaker 1: But and it's not yeah yeah, right, right exactly. 111 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 4: But uh U n G at this point is trying 112 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:46,600 to say this whole thing should be thrown out because. 113 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 3: They're making it up. Right, Oh, of course making this up, 114 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:50,959 that's what they're saying. 115 00:05:51,079 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 2: Of course, now what they also claim, So people who 116 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,399 don't know how this works with major labels, when a 117 00:05:59,439 --> 00:06:03,480 major label signs you, they give you When they sign 118 00:06:03,519 --> 00:06:06,399 you and they're they're gonna release your album, they give 119 00:06:06,439 --> 00:06:09,000 you they give you an advance on that album. So say, 120 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:13,639 for example, we'll use nice, big round numbers because I'm 121 00:06:13,639 --> 00:06:16,319 not good at math, so it makes it easier for me, 122 00:06:16,439 --> 00:06:18,639 but it also makes it easier to explain these concepts 123 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,959 for people who don't know how this works. So because 124 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,319 I think people outside of the industry have this idea 125 00:06:25,439 --> 00:06:29,319 that a record label signs you and they give you 126 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,639 tons of money up front, and now you're suddenly a 127 00:06:31,639 --> 00:06:35,279 millionaire and you're being flown out to LA and you're 128 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,879 put up in the Playboy Mansion or something, and and 129 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,800 you're surrounded by supermodels all day and everything. I think, 130 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:45,399 at least I think there was a time when that 131 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,519 was the general perception that people had about how this 132 00:06:48,519 --> 00:06:49,879 this music industry works. 133 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: And it's not. 134 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,439 Speaker 2: The money that you're giving up front is actually an 135 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,199 advance so they give you. So say they give you 136 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,240 a million dollar advance, and again I'm using big round numbers. 137 00:07:01,879 --> 00:07:04,920 But let's say they give you a million dollar advance 138 00:07:05,879 --> 00:07:09,399 that's to make your album. So you're going to spend 139 00:07:09,439 --> 00:07:12,000 that money that's not like your money to just put 140 00:07:12,079 --> 00:07:15,639 into your bank account. And now you're a millionaire and 141 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:17,439 you get to go make your album. But now you're 142 00:07:17,759 --> 00:07:20,279 a millionaire because you're about to be famous or you're 143 00:07:20,319 --> 00:07:23,120 already becoming famous. It doesn't work that way. So that's 144 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,360 actually an advance on your earnings. So they're giving you 145 00:07:26,439 --> 00:07:28,439 that money, they're investing that money in you, giving you 146 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,920 that money upfront for you to go and spend on 147 00:07:31,079 --> 00:07:35,600 making your album. Now, what some artists might do in 148 00:07:35,639 --> 00:07:39,680 a situation like that, they get that million dollar advance, 149 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,240 but they're only going to spend a half a million 150 00:07:44,279 --> 00:07:47,399 making their album, you know, So there are ways to 151 00:07:47,759 --> 00:07:56,720 do that. Tom Scholz from Boston famously or infamously did 152 00:07:56,839 --> 00:08:00,079 something like that where the label advanced them something like 153 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,600 the label advanced some some something like fifty grand and 154 00:08:05,639 --> 00:08:08,800 he made the record for fifteen hundred dollars at home, 155 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:10,680 in his home studio or something like that. 156 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:11,279 Speaker 3: That's awesome. 157 00:08:11,399 --> 00:08:14,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, so so so that. 158 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,399 Speaker 2: That that does happen. But but again it's not they're 159 00:08:17,439 --> 00:08:20,519 not paying you this money to keep. It's an advance, 160 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:25,560 and advance is recooped. So this term recoupment is where 161 00:08:25,879 --> 00:08:28,800 people can get tripped up. So they're gonna get that 162 00:08:28,879 --> 00:08:31,360 money back, and the way they're gonna get that money 163 00:08:31,399 --> 00:08:35,399 back is you make the album they release the album, 164 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,039 they do all the promotion and everything, but they're gonna 165 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,519 recoup that money they advanced to you that's not yours 166 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,759 to keep and you which means you don't get anything 167 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:50,960 from sales anything until that money is completely paid back. 168 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:56,600 So you're not getting a check from the label until 169 00:08:56,759 --> 00:09:00,440 all of that advance money has been recouped by the label. 170 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:06,279 So Limp Biscuit So according to UMG, and again they've 171 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,919 they've made additional statements now in recent days. But according 172 00:09:09,919 --> 00:09:13,679 to UMG, back when this was first filed, their claim was, well, no, 173 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:19,600 we we hadn't paid Limp Biscuit anything because they hadn't, 174 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:24,159 you know, they hadn't settled the recoupment yet. Now this 175 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:28,039 is this is where it really gets nuts. And again, 176 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:29,440 and I have an article in front of me, and 177 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,120 I know you have something as well. I have something 178 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,440 from Billboard that'll explain this in a little bit more detail. 179 00:09:33,519 --> 00:09:36,080 But right now I'm just speaking extemporaneously about what I 180 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,639 know about this so far, because I've been following it 181 00:09:38,639 --> 00:09:40,879 pretty closely. Feel I'm fascinated by this kind of thing. 182 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:47,080 So what what what happened at one point was so 183 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,600 either Fred Durst or representatives of Fred Durst's management or 184 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,519 attorneys whomever, probably all of them at various points. 185 00:09:54,279 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: Tried to sign in. It's like a record label, a 186 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:58,799 big company like UMG. 187 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 3: They will. 188 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: Create a portal like you know how for anything financial, right, 189 00:10:08,279 --> 00:10:10,960 you know, whether a bank account or some sort of service. 190 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: You know, you have a portal that you log into 191 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:13,799 and you. 192 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,279 Speaker 2: Can see all your numbers and see what your bank 193 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,480 balance is and do all this stuff. Right, So the 194 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,200 record label gives you, as an artist, a portal to 195 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:27,320 sign into. But I guess there was one point where uh, 196 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:32,039 Olympus gets this sounds so we're talking about this huge, 197 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,320 you know, multimillion dollar company here, right, But they create 198 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:40,759 a portal and they give and so the artist actually gets, 199 00:10:41,639 --> 00:10:44,360 you know, a username and password basically to sign into 200 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,879 their portal where they can look at all their stuff. 201 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,000 The idea being, you know, you can see what your 202 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,080 recoupment balance is, how much is left on your recoupment, 203 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,559 what royalties are owed to you. You know, you can 204 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,720 compare these numbers. And I guess Limpis gets portal wasn't 205 00:10:59,759 --> 00:11:02,879 work correctly or hadn't been updated or something. 206 00:11:02,799 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 3: Just weird stuff. Well, we're talking about. 207 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 2: A multimillion dollar company here, right, UMG is a huge company, 208 00:11:09,879 --> 00:11:13,279 but they can't get the little things right to even 209 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,440 make it so that limp Biscuit as a business entity 210 00:11:17,519 --> 00:11:22,399 can see what's going on with their account. And but 211 00:11:23,279 --> 00:11:26,840 the suspicion is, well that's intentional. Of course, they make 212 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,120 it hard because they're trying to hide things. They're trying 213 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:31,960 to hide things from you. They don't want you to 214 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:33,200 see what the real numbers are. 215 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:34,399 Speaker 1: Longer. 216 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 4: And the other side of that too, that you forget about, 217 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,159 is that the longer that UMG has the money in 218 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,919 their bank account, the more money it's making for them, right, 219 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:47,480 and exactly exactly. Insurance companies do the same thing. The 220 00:11:47,519 --> 00:11:50,000 longer it takes they have to pay out, the more 221 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:50,720 money they make. 222 00:11:51,039 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, of course it's yeah, it's a dirty business. 223 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 4: So makes you wonder if there wouldn't be some way 224 00:12:00,279 --> 00:12:03,120 to prevent that, like could there be some way to 225 00:12:03,159 --> 00:12:09,919 protect artists in law that precludes them from being able 226 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,240 to hould onto money like that? 227 00:12:12,399 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 2: Move that MinC up a little bit, would you yere? 228 00:12:14,879 --> 00:12:18,159 Just so I'm not loud enough? Yeah, there you go. 229 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 3: This is something that we don't normally experience. 230 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:20,919 Speaker 1: There you go. 231 00:12:22,039 --> 00:12:25,639 Speaker 2: But uh yeah, and that so that one million dollars, 232 00:12:25,639 --> 00:12:28,120 it was roughly one million that they finally paid Limp 233 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:32,639 Biscuit in September of this year of this year, twenty 234 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,799 twenty four, after they started making noise about hey, we 235 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:41,759 haven't been paid anything. That that they they claim that 236 00:12:42,159 --> 00:12:44,240 the reason that wasn't paid, it should have been paid, 237 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,000 but the reason that wasn't was because of a software error. 238 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,320 So because of a software error that that one million 239 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,960 dollars just sat there and hadn't gone to the band 240 00:12:54,039 --> 00:12:59,279 yet again, Universal Music Group, this enormous, multimillion dollar company. 241 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:04,240 But you know, like it's it's hard. I mean, this 242 00:13:04,279 --> 00:13:05,279 will will all be a. 243 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 3: Blaming game too. 244 00:13:06,879 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 4: It's a blaming game because UMG is saying, oh no, 245 00:13:10,519 --> 00:13:15,159 that this is your management's fault, that your your big 246 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,759 manager wasn't like keeping track of things. 247 00:13:17,799 --> 00:13:21,399 Speaker 3: It's not us, because. 248 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,279 Speaker 4: They're saying that they can show for over a year 249 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:30,000 they were having good communications with this guy Paul, who's 250 00:13:30,159 --> 00:13:33,559 in charge of the manager, but the business manager, and 251 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,799 that they were keeping in contact with him, and it's 252 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:40,639 all about them, not you know, it's interesting how they 253 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,240 try to like go, oh, look over here, your guy 254 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,600 wasn't keeping track of things, so never mind us. 255 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:48,799 Speaker 3: Like, look over, it's your guy's fault. 256 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 4: He didn't keep track of things, so it's not our 257 00:13:51,039 --> 00:13:54,080 fault for not paying you. You know, that's like so 258 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,639 twisted that that's what they walk in with and that's 259 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:58,879 actually considered a possibility. 260 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 3: How does that even get entertained? 261 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,759 Speaker 4: Yeah, oh, your guy wasn't paying attention, so we got 262 00:14:04,799 --> 00:14:05,919 away with keeping more money. 263 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:06,519 Speaker 3: So hahaha. 264 00:14:07,639 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: This seems wrong. 265 00:14:09,639 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 4: Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but that's pretty much what 266 00:14:12,039 --> 00:14:14,080 it sounds like they're trying to indicate with me, is 267 00:14:14,919 --> 00:14:16,159 we didn't conceal anything. 268 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:16,759 Speaker 3: You guys just. 269 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:22,399 Speaker 1: Didn't keep track of it, right right. This is and 270 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:27,600 sometimes it's not always necessarily malfeasance. Sometimes somebody just signs. 271 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,399 Speaker 2: A bad deal or or people get in over their 272 00:14:31,399 --> 00:14:35,159 heads they don't understand how this all works. Remember when TLC, 273 00:14:36,039 --> 00:14:40,080 this is probably one of the greatest examples. When TLC. 274 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,000 You know that first album, Crazy Sexy Cool was huge. 275 00:14:43,679 --> 00:14:47,440 It sold a gazillion copies, right, well, I think it 276 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,120 was triple platinum, but it seems like it was because 277 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,960 CLC was everywhere. It seems like the album was was. Uh, 278 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,879 you know, I think he sold three million, but they 279 00:14:56,879 --> 00:15:01,679 were broke with a triple plat an album. Because of 280 00:15:02,519 --> 00:15:05,159 the way the contract was structured and the recruitment, they 281 00:15:05,159 --> 00:15:09,960 weren't getting any royalties and they and they were very 282 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,200 public about it, and they got their deal renegotiated because 283 00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:15,559 because they were very public about it, like they were, 284 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,399 they were not shy about talking about what was going on. 285 00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:22,080 But they're you know, they're at the Grammys, you know, 286 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,799 getting an award for Best New Album or whatever it was, 287 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,519 and they're like and they're like, yeah, we we have 288 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,039 no money and we've sold three million copies of our 289 00:15:31,039 --> 00:15:36,639 album and we're broke. And and that's that's one of 290 00:15:36,679 --> 00:15:40,840 the most well publicized examples because I think because they 291 00:15:40,879 --> 00:15:44,320 were so public about it, because a lot of times too, 292 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,559 you learn about these things later on because at the 293 00:15:47,559 --> 00:15:50,720 time that it's happening to an artist, they don't necessarily 294 00:15:50,759 --> 00:15:53,080 want to go public about it because they don't want, 295 00:15:53,559 --> 00:15:55,399 you know, they don't want to deal with the embarrassment 296 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,600 of it. You know, Oh, I got I kind of 297 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,720 got screwed here or whatever. My favorite band. Of course, 298 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,559 as longtime listeners know, Kiss they actually sued PolyGram. They 299 00:16:07,559 --> 00:16:11,639 were on PolyGram. This was in the early eighties, very 300 00:16:11,639 --> 00:16:14,480 early eighties. This was like when they were making the 301 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:18,799 transition from makeup to non makeup, and they sued PolyGram 302 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:23,360 for back royalties and they got a settlement over it, 303 00:16:23,399 --> 00:16:26,080 although it was kind of well, it was kind of small, 304 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:32,639 but they did get something from it. But we should 305 00:16:32,639 --> 00:16:34,039 look at So. 306 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,279 Speaker 4: The other thing about this, though, this isn't just limp biscuit. 307 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,639 And I didn't even realize this until looking back on 308 00:16:38,679 --> 00:16:42,159 the notes now that there's another organization that apparently owes 309 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,919 some of this, owns some of the copyright, the Flawless Records. 310 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:50,240 It's called Yeah, so apparently that's his imprint, by the way, 311 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:51,720 So what do you mean his imprint? 312 00:16:51,799 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 2: So there was this thing it started happening in the 313 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,759 nineties where some artists would if they were on a label, 314 00:16:58,279 --> 00:17:01,080 the label would give the art if they were interested 315 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,279 in developing other artists, they would give them almost like 316 00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:07,640 a sub label, oh, which is part of the bigger label, 317 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,319 and they would call that an imprint. So Flawless Records 318 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,960 was Fred Durst's imprint, and he actually did break a 319 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:18,000 couple of bands on his imprint label. 320 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 4: Well, it's just interesting that you noted they gave limp 321 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,799 Biscuit a million. Well, they gave another two million the 322 00:17:25,799 --> 00:17:26,839 flawless records. 323 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 3: But we don't really owe you any money. It's made up. 324 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,319 Speaker 4: They're claiming you've made this up, but we're dishing out 325 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,839 over three million more dollars. Ooh, sorry, you know, just 326 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,160 some money, but we didn't really do anything. 327 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:40,799 Speaker 1: It's faked spaghetti accounting. 328 00:17:41,039 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 3: How the heck does that work in law? Though? 329 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 4: How do you say this is all made up? And 330 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,240 then you're paying money out the other side. But it's 331 00:17:51,319 --> 00:17:53,920 like it's like I'm guilty, but I'm not guilty. 332 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 2: Right, Well, I think probably they would say flawless records. 333 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,680 I mean that's a separate account from the olymp Biscuit account. 334 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: In fact, flawless records. 335 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 2: Probably they probably have a separate user name and password 336 00:18:08,039 --> 00:18:10,799 for their their their big fancy portal. 337 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 3: Two factor identification. 338 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: Yes, it's probably very, very up to date. 339 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,799 Speaker 3: I'm sure it operates much like insurance portals. 340 00:18:19,839 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 4: You know. It's like you want to appeal that. Okay, 341 00:18:22,519 --> 00:18:24,720 get a pen and paper. Let's sit down and write 342 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,960 an old fashioned letter. Nothing electronic about this. 343 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, send us a certified letter. 344 00:18:30,039 --> 00:18:31,519 Speaker 3: Meanwhile, give us your money. 345 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe you'll get your royalties. 346 00:18:33,519 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 3: You don't even have to. 347 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 4: Put your card in, just skin it. I'll take your 348 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,759 money very easily. Yeah, but not the other way around. 349 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 1: So this is the update. 350 00:18:42,799 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 2: This is from Billboard dot com. UMG hits back at 351 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,160 Olympus guts two hundred million dollar lawsuit, calls hidden royalty 352 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:54,240 accusations fiction. It says here UMG is firing back at 353 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,720 a lawsuit from Olympus at front Manfred Durst, claiming the 354 00:18:56,799 --> 00:18:59,640 label owes the band more than two hundred million dollars, 355 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,319 calling the allegation's fiction, and demanding they be thrown out 356 00:19:03,319 --> 00:19:06,680 of court. The blockbuster lawsuit, filed last month in LA 357 00:19:06,759 --> 00:19:10,519 federal court, claimed that Durst had not seen a diamond 358 00:19:10,599 --> 00:19:13,960 royalties over the decades, and that hundreds of other artists 359 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:18,720 may have been treated similarly under systemic and fraudulent policies. 360 00:19:19,319 --> 00:19:23,519 But in UMG's first response, this is UMG's they're finally 361 00:19:23,559 --> 00:19:27,160 responding to this officially after several months, well a couple months. 362 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,480 In their first response on Friday, attorneys for the label 363 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,480 said the lawsuit must be dismissed immediately because it is 364 00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:35,200 based on a fallacy. 365 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: Writers. Rolin A. 366 00:19:39,799 --> 00:19:44,079 Speaker 2: Ransom, an attorney with the law firm Sidley Austen who 367 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,839 represents UMG in the suit, said, quote, Plaintiff's entire narrative 368 00:19:47,839 --> 00:19:51,880 that UMG tried to conceal royalties is a fiction. Plaintiff's 369 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,319 complaint fails as a matter of law and should be 370 00:19:55,319 --> 00:19:59,119 dismissed with prejudice unquote. The key problem with Durst's claims, 371 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,960 according to UMG these attorneys, it's that documents included in 372 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,359 his own lawsuit eviscerate his allegations. They specifically cite emails 373 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,480 in which a UMG exec appears to have reached out 374 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,119 to get royalties flowing, but was rebuffed by the band's 375 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:15,440 own business manager. 376 00:20:15,799 --> 00:20:16,079 Speaker 1: Yeah. 377 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 2: I remember reading that part too, and that doesn't make sense, 378 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:26,559 like why would that even happen? But that's that's what 379 00:20:26,799 --> 00:20:29,720 they're claiming now. The company also said in Friday's filing, quote, 380 00:20:30,079 --> 00:20:35,759 over a year before plaintiff's discovery of allegedly concealed royalties, 381 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,920 UMG affirmatively and unilaterally reached out to Olympis Gut's representative 382 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,440 so that it could begin making royalty payments to the band, 383 00:20:43,759 --> 00:20:46,119 and was instead informed by him that all members of 384 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:50,759 Olympis Gut but one, including plaintiff Durst, had assigned their 385 00:20:50,839 --> 00:20:54,519 royalty shares to others and were therefore not entitled any 386 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,799 royalty payments from UMG unquote. 387 00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,759 Speaker 3: So it's not that I owe you money. It's that 388 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,920 or not. I don't. You don't actually have the right 389 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:04,599 to assume me. So even the way all your. 390 00:21:04,519 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: Money, I'm not going to give it to you, I 391 00:21:06,519 --> 00:21:07,240 don't know, don't. 392 00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:09,039 Speaker 3: Almost, I don't know. That's what it feels like. But 393 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:09,640 you were right. 394 00:21:10,039 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 4: There's another notation I just found on Music Business World 395 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:19,240 that it's also involving other artists. Yeah, from that Durst 396 00:21:19,319 --> 00:21:22,559 did have under flawless records. Yeah, yeah, So it's not 397 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,160 just Lumbiscuit, it's other bands music as well. 398 00:21:25,319 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: Does it mention who are there? Anything? 399 00:21:27,039 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 3: It does it? 400 00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 1: It does it? 401 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:30,319 Speaker 3: It just says other. 402 00:21:30,599 --> 00:21:33,759 Speaker 2: Because there's at least one one band that that he broke, 403 00:21:33,799 --> 00:21:35,640 that broke big, that had a big hit, and I 404 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,839 can't remember who it was now. So in a statement 405 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,440 to Billboard on Monday, durst lawyers sharply refuted the arguments 406 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,079 made in UMG's motion to dismiss the case. Attorney Mark 407 00:21:46,599 --> 00:21:50,240 Fabiani said quote. When someone has caught red handed, their 408 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,119 first response is often to hire very expensive outside law 409 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,720 firms who first, as a matter of course, try anything 410 00:21:56,759 --> 00:21:59,240 to dismiss the suit when they are in trouble with 411 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,160 the facts. In this case, we believe UMG is using 412 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:07,359 a typical, formulaic, well trodden strategy of reaching for any 413 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:12,480 escape route by desperately grasping at technicalities unquote. Durst and 414 00:22:12,559 --> 00:22:17,039 Lymbiscuits sued UMG in October, claiming that the band had 415 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,559 quote never received any royalties from UMG unquote despite its 416 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,160 huge success over the years. Quote, the band had still 417 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,680 not been paid a single cent by UMG in any 418 00:22:26,759 --> 00:22:30,000 royalties until taking action unquote. 419 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 4: So interestingly, Dearth is the sole owner of Flawless Records. 420 00:22:37,319 --> 00:22:42,759 Speaker 1: Interestingly, I think I may have. 421 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 2: When I was talking about how an imprint works, I 422 00:22:46,319 --> 00:22:49,799 may have misspoken. It's not like it's a part of 423 00:22:49,839 --> 00:22:54,440 the label, but it's so because there were a number 424 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,960 of artists who who did this. This was a thing 425 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,759 in the nineties and into the two thousands, Like I 426 00:23:00,759 --> 00:23:02,960 think jay Z had an imprint and some others. 427 00:23:03,319 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: So it's it's like. 428 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 2: A separate record label, but the major label that the 429 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:15,319 imprint is associated with handles all the distribution. So even 430 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:20,160 though the imprint kind of is kind of is an 431 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:26,680 independent label, in a sense, the major label that's associated 432 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,839 with does well. The imprint gets used the major label's 433 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:37,559 entire distribution pipeline and whatever other promotional resources are available. 434 00:23:38,039 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: So that makes sense. 435 00:23:39,039 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 2: And I think Gene Simmons, by you know, I mentioned 436 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,880 Kiss earlier, Gene Simmons had an imprint label. Actually before 437 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,160 it was even really a thing in the eighties, he 438 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,799 had an as I think I think it was, it 439 00:23:52,839 --> 00:23:54,039 was just called Simmons Records. 440 00:23:54,079 --> 00:23:56,799 Speaker 1: I think it was. It was before imprints were really 441 00:23:57,039 --> 00:23:57,440 a thing. 442 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 3: But did he did he ever break anybody? 443 00:24:00,319 --> 00:24:01,839 Speaker 1: No, it didn't last. 444 00:24:02,839 --> 00:24:04,599 Speaker 2: Jane tried a lot of things in the eighties that 445 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:09,160 didn't last, Like he tried producing other artists and you know, 446 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,880 and of course he had a short lived acting career, and. 447 00:24:11,799 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 3: You would think that would have made more money than Lunchbox. 448 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,640 Speaker 1: But no, oh no, well, oh no. 449 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 2: No, no, no, it says here The claim was something 450 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,640 of a stunner. How had one of the biggest bands 451 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,519 of its era, which sold millions of records during the 452 00:24:28,559 --> 00:24:32,079 music industry's MTV fueled turn of the century glory days. 453 00:24:32,079 --> 00:24:34,920 Because remember we're talking late nineties into the early two thousands. 454 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,519 How did they still never have been paid any royalties 455 00:24:39,039 --> 00:24:44,279 nearly three decades later. According to Durst, the answer was 456 00:24:44,839 --> 00:24:48,559 an appalling and unsettling scheme to conceal royalties from artists 457 00:24:48,599 --> 00:24:52,440 and keep those profits for itself. He claimed the company 458 00:24:52,519 --> 00:24:56,960 essentially kept Limpiscit in the red with shady bookkeeping, allowing 459 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,000 it to falsely claim the band remained unrecouped, meaning its 460 00:25:01,079 --> 00:25:04,079 royalties still had not surpassed the amount the group had 461 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,640 been paid in upfront advances. In other words, the advance 462 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,319 had not been the advances because an advance for each 463 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:12,480 album had not been paid back. 464 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: According but the. 465 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 4: Bulk of the main thrust of the claim was that 466 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,920 they sold like forty five million albums and never got 467 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:20,920 a dime of royalty. 468 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,039 Speaker 3: Yeah until they filed a lawsuit. Yeah, then they got money. 469 00:25:25,079 --> 00:25:28,079 But now they're still saying, no, you made that a. 470 00:25:27,559 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 2: Well or until they well, yeah, well until they until 471 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,640 they started making noise about it because they got that million. 472 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,599 UMG finally gave them that million back in September, but 473 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,000 the suit was actually filed in October. 474 00:25:38,599 --> 00:25:41,599 Speaker 4: No, but the motion to dismiss they filed was November 475 00:25:41,599 --> 00:25:44,200 twenty second, so that just happened. 476 00:25:44,279 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 3: You just filed the motion to dismiss. 477 00:25:47,839 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 1: Right, they're just now responding. 478 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,799 Speaker 4: But quote unquote, because the complaint is based on a fallacy, 479 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,759 how do you say that after you just handed out 480 00:25:55,759 --> 00:25:56,799 three million dollars? 481 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 3: Like, I don't get that. 482 00:25:58,599 --> 00:26:01,599 Speaker 4: Well, how is that a vibe elbow motion after you 483 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:03,119 just hand it over three mil? 484 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,319 Speaker 2: Well, but I think they're saying that's all. That's all 485 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,920 they were owed, you know, the million, the million to 486 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,559 uh Limp Biscuit, that's all. 487 00:26:10,599 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 3: Then the two million to the record to the label. 488 00:26:12,799 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's kind of a separate thing the sub label. 489 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 4: Yeah it is, but it isn't because there's is a 490 00:26:17,519 --> 00:26:20,920 son owner, so technically he's the dude on both ends. 491 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's getting the three mil. It's just under two 492 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:24,799 different names. 493 00:26:25,039 --> 00:26:27,519 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is strange that his imprint label would have 494 00:26:27,559 --> 00:26:30,920 more money coming to it than you know, the band 495 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:36,279 he's in that sold for forty five million records, right yeah. 496 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,759 Speaker 4: Yeah, Well it because goes to back up everything we've 497 00:26:38,759 --> 00:26:42,519 been talking about. Yeah, how these companies really have ripped 498 00:26:42,519 --> 00:26:44,319 off artists for a really long time. 499 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean what do. 500 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,799 Speaker 3: They artists get? What's an artist get these days? 501 00:26:47,839 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 4: If they're streaming like less than a quarter of a 502 00:26:51,759 --> 00:26:56,200 penny or something like that, Like they there's no they 503 00:26:56,599 --> 00:26:59,359 have to have a ridiculous number of plays before they 504 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,200 can even make an enough money to pay for a meal. 505 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's barely anything. Spotify doesn't a lot of art. 506 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,759 Speaker 4: Yeah, they won't put their stuff on Spotify because it 507 00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:08,920 is a big rip off for them. 508 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:10,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, they don't get anything out of it. 509 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 4: But on the other hand, if everybody's using Spotify and 510 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,319 you don't put your music on there, you know, it's 511 00:27:16,319 --> 00:27:17,920 a catch twenty two for an artist. 512 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 3: You want to be heard, but you also want to 513 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,599 get paid, you know. It's kind of the part of 514 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:24,079 the point. 515 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,880 Speaker 4: Yes, sharing music is wonderful, but it's also about getting 516 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,319 paid as an artist. 517 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 3: To everything you bring to the table. 518 00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: There is there is this. 519 00:27:37,839 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 2: There is a certain truth though. So another thing people 520 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,079 probably don't know who aren't in the industry is that 521 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,559 it's really always been the case to some degree that 522 00:27:49,839 --> 00:27:55,720 artists don't make that much in simple royalties in the 523 00:27:55,799 --> 00:28:01,000 sense that like I remember I remember meat Loaf talking 524 00:28:01,079 --> 00:28:04,359 in an interview once about how you know, like like 525 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,400 when Bad out of Hell, which I have no idea 526 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,880 at this point, how many millions of uh? I mean, 527 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,200 it's probably surpassed one hundred million albums sold by now. 528 00:28:14,319 --> 00:28:17,279 But I remember early in his career he was talking 529 00:28:17,279 --> 00:28:20,039 about how little money he got, you know, like like 530 00:28:20,839 --> 00:28:24,279 pennies per units sold The Bad out of Hell. But 531 00:28:24,799 --> 00:28:29,839 the truth is the real money for a very long time, 532 00:28:31,039 --> 00:28:32,559 the real money has been in touring. 533 00:28:34,039 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: You know, you can. 534 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 2: You can make a lot of money on tour, a 535 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:42,519 lot more money on tour than actual than actual sales albums, right, 536 00:28:43,119 --> 00:28:49,240 which is why some artists tour so much. For example, 537 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,920 when Jerry Garcia died. I remember I was never a 538 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,640 big dead head, so I didn't I didn't even realize this. 539 00:28:56,759 --> 00:28:58,559 Speaker 1: But when when. 540 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 2: Jerry Garcia died, I was reading out how because people 541 00:29:03,039 --> 00:29:06,319 wondered why why did he keep touring so much? Because 542 00:29:06,359 --> 00:29:08,160 apparently toward the end of his life there were people 543 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,759 close to him who wanted him to stop because his 544 00:29:10,799 --> 00:29:13,680 health was failing, and people wanted him to take a break. 545 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,759 They wanted him to stop touring, whether it was with 546 00:29:16,039 --> 00:29:19,880 The Grateful Dead or the Jerry Garcia band, and he 547 00:29:20,039 --> 00:29:24,400 just kept going because you sometimes these artists get to 548 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,359 a point where they can't afford to stop, because you 549 00:29:27,359 --> 00:29:30,920 stop and then the money stops. And if you have 550 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,279 an entire organization to pay for, you're not just supporting yourself, 551 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,960 but you've got managers and lawyers and got any jobs. 552 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 3: There many people, you. 553 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 2: Know, the these organizations become bloated, and you know, you 554 00:29:47,319 --> 00:29:49,799 might have touring staff who you want to keep on 555 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,920 retainer even when you're not touring, so that they don't 556 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,079 go off and work for somebody else when you're not touring, 557 00:29:55,079 --> 00:29:56,960 and then you can't get them back for your tour. 558 00:29:57,279 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: So you might be paying them all year round, even 559 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,000 when you're not active. 560 00:30:00,799 --> 00:30:02,279 Speaker 3: So I have a thought about that way. 561 00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:07,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, So a lot of artists, you know, they tour 562 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,079 so much because it becomes a situation where they cannot 563 00:30:11,079 --> 00:30:13,519 afford not to like, they can't get off of the 564 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,799 road because it ends up costing more to be off 565 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,519 the road than on the road. 566 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,559 Speaker 4: That makes sense, It certainly doesn't make sense because that's 567 00:30:21,599 --> 00:30:24,200 where you're gonna make your money, not just ticket sales, 568 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,200 but march you know. 569 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:32,279 Speaker 2: And now touring has become more expensive and so it's 570 00:30:32,359 --> 00:30:35,759 kind of become a situation now. 571 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,279 Speaker 1: Where it's it's hard to tour. It's harder to tour. 572 00:30:40,319 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 2: So look a look at now the money's made more 573 00:30:43,279 --> 00:30:44,599 with merch than anything. 574 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 4: Look at the guests we had recently, Green and Yellow, right, 575 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,119 they're constantly touring. And not only are they constantly touring, 576 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,640 they try to keep their expenses down, Like they have 577 00:30:54,799 --> 00:30:58,599 actual school buses that have beds in them so they 578 00:30:58,599 --> 00:31:01,039 can actually sleep on the road, and there's other vans 579 00:31:01,039 --> 00:31:04,240 and then equipment that goes along so they can keep 580 00:31:04,279 --> 00:31:05,039 their costs down. 581 00:31:05,119 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 3: But they're like constantly touring. 582 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,279 Speaker 4: They might get to take a small break of maybe 583 00:31:10,319 --> 00:31:13,799 a few days or you know, but you go check 584 00:31:13,839 --> 00:31:17,960 them out and they're constantly going all around the country Canada. 585 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,240 They're constantly on the move, and you know, you can 586 00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:23,279 imagine it's it would be hard for them to stop 587 00:31:23,279 --> 00:31:24,880 because then the money stops. 588 00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 3: How do you put gas in the. 589 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,759 Speaker 4: Car if you're not touring, you know, you can't afford 590 00:31:29,799 --> 00:31:31,400 to have the money stop, So it is it's a 591 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,359 vicious circle. You have to really love what you're doing, 592 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,240 that's for sure, which obviously those guys do. I mean, 593 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,519 if you've never seen Green Jello. When they come back around, 594 00:31:39,759 --> 00:31:41,599 you have to see them. They're amazing in person. They 595 00:31:41,759 --> 00:31:46,160 just freaking amazing and so much fun. If you want 596 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,240 to go to a show that's joy, go see Green Jello. 597 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:50,839 It's just joy. 598 00:31:51,079 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 3: I know you can't help but feel good with walking 599 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:55,640 away from one of their shows. 600 00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:00,319 Speaker 4: But they're constantly in motion, and that constant motion comes 601 00:32:00,359 --> 00:32:03,200 with a lot of expenses because I'll see, Oh, what 602 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,279 was it? There was something that went recently. It was 603 00:32:05,359 --> 00:32:08,960 like their their starter and one of the buses went. 604 00:32:09,359 --> 00:32:13,759 So they were fundraising to get the starter repaired because. 605 00:32:13,519 --> 00:32:14,839 Speaker 3: They're in the middle of a tour. 606 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:15,359 Speaker 1: You know. 607 00:32:16,079 --> 00:32:17,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a vicious circle. 608 00:32:17,359 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 4: And these guys, especially nowadays, you don't make You're not 609 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,759 making the money off of streaming. Certainly right now, there 610 00:32:23,839 --> 00:32:25,720 is something to be said for physical media. 611 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 3: You know, there can be some money these days. Records 612 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,680 are coming back CD. 613 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:33,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's. 614 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,599 Speaker 4: Not gonna be It's never gonna be like it was 615 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,759 when we were younger, no where. The only way you 616 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,920 got the music was to go find it in a 617 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,480 store in a record store and bring it home, or 618 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,400 sit in front of the radio with your fingers ready 619 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,160 on record so you could try to record the song 620 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:51,839 off the radio. 621 00:32:52,039 --> 00:32:53,359 Speaker 1: Oh yeah didn't. 622 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, we all did, right, That was that was how 623 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,720 you got to hear your song, or you had to 624 00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,160 wait for it to come back around. 625 00:32:59,799 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 3: Now we have instant. 626 00:33:00,839 --> 00:33:04,839 Speaker 4: Gratification music through streaming. It's just not it's never going 627 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:09,400 to be that again. It's instant gratification. So really the 628 00:33:09,559 --> 00:33:12,200 artists are limited on where they're going to make their money. 629 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,839 It really is in those live venues, in selling merch 630 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,759 at the live venues, and that's really the only way 631 00:33:18,759 --> 00:33:20,759 they're going to sustain themselves off their art. 632 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 2: That's why a lot of artists get into podcasting too, 633 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,680 although you see it more with stand up comics than 634 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,480 you do with musicians necessarily, but there's you know, if 635 00:33:31,519 --> 00:33:34,839 you're that's the thing, if you're even a tiny bit famous, 636 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,640 you can start a YouTube channel and monetize it, get 637 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:43,079 monetized quickly and create content that way. Justin Hawkins is 638 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,359 a great example of that from the band The Darkness. 639 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,240 You know, he has a very popular podcast called Justin 640 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:53,599 Hawkins Rides Again and and it's it's really good. It's 641 00:33:53,599 --> 00:33:56,160 a lot of fun, and it's also very informative because 642 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,200 he delves into a lot of these music industry issues 643 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,000 as well. So that's another one I would recommend it 644 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,720 if you're interested in this stuff. Justin Hawkins Rides again. 645 00:34:03,119 --> 00:34:06,440 But yeah, so a lot of people in the industry 646 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,320 have had to seek other revenue streams. 647 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,119 Speaker 4: And it's and that really these days, it's in that 648 00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:17,840 live concert. It's in moving those bodies into a venue 649 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:19,920 that you're going to make the most money. 650 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, yes, indeed, and that and that's harder. 651 00:34:23,639 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 4: It's harder on artists, and it certainly benefits people like UMG, 652 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,639 yeah obviously, but. 653 00:34:31,599 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 3: I really it just kills. 654 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 4: Me that they pay it all out and then they suddenly, oh, 655 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:38,559 this is made up. 656 00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 3: How do you do that? I don't know. Is it 657 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:44,800 just me that I find that flabby? 658 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 4: It's awful to see what these lengths companies will go 659 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,800 to to rip off the artists that they're making their 660 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:53,280 money off.