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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Nonprofits, the weekly show that addresses current

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<v Speaker 1>events and news items from an atheist and secular humanist perspective.

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<v Speaker 1>In our first segment this week, the current regime is

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<v Speaker 1>continuing its war on dei eli slack. What kind of

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<v Speaker 1>trouble are they causing now?

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<v Speaker 2>Well? In February of this year, the Department of Education

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<v Speaker 2>rescinded to grants that would have helped fund universities and nonprofits.

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<v Speaker 3>Across the country.

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<v Speaker 2>Specifically, they recentded them specifically because these grants would fund

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<v Speaker 2>programs dedicated to diversity, equity, and inclusion. So eight of

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<v Speaker 2>the affected states filed a lawsuit, leading to a federal

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<v Speaker 2>district court to order the Department of Education to reinstate

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<v Speaker 2>the grants. So then, following that, the Justice Department, presumably

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<v Speaker 2>at the behest of the Department of Education, filed the

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<v Speaker 2>request to the Supreme Court to pause the federal district

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<v Speaker 2>Court's order, which the Supreme Court has granted. What that

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<v Speaker 2>means is that those grants and those funds will remain

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<v Speaker 2>unavailable and a better society will remain tragically out of reach.

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<v Speaker 2>The story is from CBS News by Melissa Quinn, published

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<v Speaker 2>on April fourth, twenty twenty five.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, Eli, Well, I mean the current regime obviously

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<v Speaker 1>has declared war against DEI initiatives here, so how does

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<v Speaker 1>this particular battle fit into that larger picture of that war.

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<v Speaker 2>It's I mean, so the idea here, I think we're

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<v Speaker 2>probably all on the same page about this is that

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<v Speaker 2>like making sure that public universities are not like diverse,

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<v Speaker 2>equitable and inclusive is more important than making sure that

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<v Speaker 2>they are.

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<v Speaker 3>We can't have that.

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<v Speaker 1>We can't have that.

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<v Speaker 3>So that's sort of I think the message at this sense.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think there's a common I mean, it's pretty

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<v Speaker 2>clear there's a common misconception that a lot of white

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<v Speaker 2>men have the complaint about DEI initiatives that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they don't help white men, And I think that that

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<v Speaker 2>actually it's not the case that they can't help white men.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just that it's not designed to help you just

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<v Speaker 2>by virtue of being a white man. Okay, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they can help Christian, you know, religious people like Christian,

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<v Speaker 2>Jewish and Muslim and Hindu people, as well as atheists.

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<v Speaker 2>They can benefit neurodiverse individuals such as those with like

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<v Speaker 2>ADHD and autism. Ben if it's single working parents veterans,

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<v Speaker 2>Like I'm trying to say, there's no like straight white

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<v Speaker 2>male veterans. So I it's it's not an attack on anyone.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just it's just forcing, you know, to share the stage.

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<v Speaker 3>Like just because you're a.

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<v Speaker 2>White like you, you weren't born there's nothing about the

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<v Speaker 2>way you were born that makes you deserve anything any

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<v Speaker 2>more than anybody else.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, right, Well, I suppose when you know, when you

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<v Speaker 1>have privilege your whole life, then when that privilege is taken,

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<v Speaker 1>then it seems like persecution. It seems like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you lost your crutch and so now you know you

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<v Speaker 1>have to walk on your own and that's that's it.

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<v Speaker 1>Apparently that's a big a drawback or something. Jonathan. Let's

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<v Speaker 1>jump over to you here in the article they said

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<v Speaker 1>quote Attorney General Pam Bondi said that the ruling quote

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<v Speaker 1>vindicates what the Department of Justice has been arguing for months.

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<v Speaker 1>Local district judges do not have the jurisdiction to seize

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<v Speaker 1>control of taxpayer dollars, force the government to pay out billions,

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<v Speaker 1>or unilaterally halt the president's policy agenda. Do you think

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<v Speaker 1>Bondi's claim that the courts are overstepping holds water.

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<v Speaker 4>Not at all. She obviously doesn't know her job very well.

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<v Speaker 4>That doesn't surprise me. She was also ag in Florida

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<v Speaker 4>before she got this job, all right, so she's she's notorious.

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<v Speaker 4>But you know, the thing that bothers me the most

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<v Speaker 4>is that her assumption that the courts don't mean anything

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<v Speaker 4>to the presidency or the administration. That is absolutely false.

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<v Speaker 4>Any can stop an action of the administration if that

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<v Speaker 4>administration is breaking federal law, and with the current administration

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<v Speaker 4>that's not an unusual occurrence apparently. But yeah, if the

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<v Speaker 4>lower court, district court says, Okay, you can't do this

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<v Speaker 4>because it's unconstitutional, they have the option of what they

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<v Speaker 4>did here, bring it up to the Supreme Court. And

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<v Speaker 4>if they do, the Supreme Court has the option of saying, no,

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<v Speaker 4>we're not going to look at this. You know, it

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<v Speaker 4>depends on how busy they are, a bunch of other stuff,

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<v Speaker 4>what the merits of the case are, what the findings

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<v Speaker 4>of facts, where there's a whole bunch of stuff that

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<v Speaker 4>goes into this is very complex, But they definitely have

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<v Speaker 4>the right to tell the administration to stop. Otherwise our

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<v Speaker 4>government is broken, and that I think is the baseline

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<v Speaker 4>thing they want to do here. They want to make

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<v Speaker 4>sure that even the courts can't stop what they're trying

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<v Speaker 4>to do for an authoritarian government. And that to me

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<v Speaker 4>is criminal in itself, Unamerican in itself, it's absolutely Unamerican.

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<v Speaker 4>And Pam Bondi knows better than this. You know, she

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<v Speaker 4>does have a law degree. You think she would have

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<v Speaker 4>at least taken one course in the Constitution, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>being the highest law the land. People, you can't just

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<v Speaker 4>willy nilly decide that it doesn't.

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<v Speaker 3>Apply to your right.

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<v Speaker 4>The courts decide that, and the Supreme Court is the

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<v Speaker 4>supreme arbiter of the courts. So if it goes to

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<v Speaker 4>them and they say, okay, the lower court probably didn't

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<v Speaker 4>need to do this, or I don't think it's the

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<v Speaker 4>same thing, or they have another argument, than fine, they

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<v Speaker 4>are They tend the Supreme Court tends to take cases

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<v Speaker 4>that involve a possible constitutional crisis, which is courts tell

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<v Speaker 4>them to do something and they don't do it as

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<v Speaker 4>a constitutional crisis, and there's no there's no checks and

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<v Speaker 4>balances anymore. At that point. There's no way that if

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<v Speaker 4>you are unjustly treated by your government that you can

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<v Speaker 4>raise that up to the government and the justice system

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<v Speaker 4>and get justice for an illegal or unjust act. So

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<v Speaker 4>that's my opinion on that that quote is just totally

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<v Speaker 4>off the wall.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I think what's ironic about it too, is

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<v Speaker 1>that what she's saying is that how dare you, Colurts.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, you're one branch of the government. You can't

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<v Speaker 1>unilaterally stop this other branch of the government from unilaterally

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<v Speaker 1>deciding what money goes where.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, how dare you?

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<v Speaker 4>It's their job, that's what they do.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly right.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's literally why we have the multiple branches

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<v Speaker 1>of the government is for those checks and balances, and

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<v Speaker 1>so trying to say that, you know, employing those checks

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<v Speaker 1>and balance is is somehow unilaterally designating billions of dollars. No,

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<v Speaker 1>this is money that Congress already vote. You know, they've

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<v Speaker 1>already designated for this kind of thing, and you know

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<v Speaker 1>that's really that's really their job, right, that's you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Congress is the one who controls the purse strings, and so,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it's really really off the mark, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's very frustrating to hear this kind of thing over

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<v Speaker 1>and over and over again, and it's just it's just

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<v Speaker 1>enough to drive a person crazy. Uh So, having said that,

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<v Speaker 1>let's jump back to Eli here and just real.

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<v Speaker 3>Quick because I got a question from it.

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<v Speaker 2>But before I bet she probably did take exactly one

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<v Speaker 2>constitution of course, and it was probably something like a

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<v Speaker 2>biblical interpretation of the constitution.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, that could be that could be.

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<v Speaker 1>So well, Eli, you you were as we were just

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<v Speaker 1>talking about we we we see that de I is

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<v Speaker 1>really being mischaracterized here and and that's merely to uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, what DEI does is it's intended to level

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<v Speaker 1>the playing field for groups that are starting out at

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<v Speaker 1>a disadvantage. It's not the prob you know, the the

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<v Speaker 1>the theory behind this philosophy is not to raise one

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<v Speaker 1>group up above any other group. It's to balance that

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<v Speaker 1>playing field. It's to give them, it's to give them

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<v Speaker 1>a leg up, but it's to give them a leg

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<v Speaker 1>up from the hole that they're in, not to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>to get a leg up over any other group. So

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<v Speaker 1>why would why would this current regime be against any

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<v Speaker 1>of against that kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 3>Because and you kind of touched on it earlier.

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<v Speaker 2>Not only is it it doesn't feel to the people

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<v Speaker 2>that have the leg up already. When you give everyone

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<v Speaker 2>else the same leg up, it doesn't feel like everyone

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<v Speaker 2>else is getting a leg up. It feels like you're

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<v Speaker 2>getting dragged down. They feel like they're like they feel

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<v Speaker 2>like when you're used to winning at the expense of

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<v Speaker 2>everyone else, and then they that stops happening. Now you're

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<v Speaker 2>not winning as much because we're taking care not to

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<v Speaker 2>make sure that your success is not at the expense

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<v Speaker 2>of others. And so when that success starts to decline

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<v Speaker 2>or change or whatever it may be, you start to

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<v Speaker 2>feel like you're at a disadvantage, and that disadvantage is

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<v Speaker 2>being manufactured by this thing that is giving other people

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<v Speaker 2>the same, you know, not the same advantages you have,

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<v Speaker 2>but just leveling the playing field so that your advantages

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<v Speaker 2>don't really come into play unfairly when they shouldn't. So

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<v Speaker 2>it's this idea that it's it's it's the idea of

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<v Speaker 2>taking the least persecuted group and you know, convincing them

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<v Speaker 2>that they're being persecuted. We see that in like a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of different contexts that we talked about a lot,

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<v Speaker 2>but that's what's happening here. It's the idea that DEI

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<v Speaker 2>is persecuting white men because like, oh, I lost my

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<v Speaker 2>job you know because of the I Well, that means

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<v Speaker 2>that you only had your job because you were a

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<v Speaker 2>white man, So right, right, like shut shut up and

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<v Speaker 2>let somebody qualified you know your position, right.

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<v Speaker 1>We shine light on the problem. Is that you know

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<v Speaker 1>that's uh, that shouldn't be an issue.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, Yeah, that means it work.

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<v Speaker 1>So so are you saying then that opposition to the

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<v Speaker 1>to these policies is to protect a privilege or is

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<v Speaker 1>it to specifically to put down these other groups? I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>is it is it positive discrimination for uh, for oneself?

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<v Speaker 3>Basically?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, the the people that are pushing these kind

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<v Speaker 1>of things through are you know, largely white male Americans,

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, is it is it just to push

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<v Speaker 1>up that group or is it to push down the

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<v Speaker 1>other group? Or is it just a lucky happenstance that

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<v Speaker 1>they get to do both at once.

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<v Speaker 2>I think probably, if I'm being charitable, it's more likely

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<v Speaker 2>that more human behavior, more human behavior, is motivated by

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<v Speaker 2>selfishness than by malice.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, So I think if.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm being charitable, I could probably be convinced with little

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<v Speaker 2>effort that it's it's just for the purpose of maintaining

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<v Speaker 2>the advantage, because like when you're when you're succeeding, you

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<v Speaker 2>don't want anything to you know, affect that or like

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<v Speaker 2>get in the way of that.

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<v Speaker 3>So I can I can empathize with that.

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<v Speaker 2>Instinct, but it's it's not conducive to like a society,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess.

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<v Speaker 1>So, so you're saying it's more just a the Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>these marginalized groups are really just collateral damage, and you

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<v Speaker 1>know it's just a we're sorry. You know, we didn't

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<v Speaker 1>want to, but we had to to to to maintain

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<v Speaker 1>the status quo. And it's just kind of the price

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<v Speaker 1>of participation.

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<v Speaker 2>In this in this game, right, Like it's like it's

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<v Speaker 2>like you or me, And if I can silence you,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have to think about the fact I don't

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<v Speaker 2>have to think about you, and so then it's.

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<v Speaker 1>Just made I don't have Yeah, Jonathan, what are your

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<v Speaker 1>thoughts on that? Do you think that this is a

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<v Speaker 1>discriminatory process or or or is that just is that

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<v Speaker 1>a feature or a bug?

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<v Speaker 4>It's a feature? This is actually uh they have they're racists.

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<v Speaker 4>Let's face it, they're racists. These people they're they're attacking

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<v Speaker 4>are not of their tribe and they just feel like

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<v Speaker 4>the American UH, America should be for white cis male,

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<v Speaker 4>heteronormative people, and everybody else should just be servants, you know.

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<v Speaker 4>That's it. That's women included. Are are not part of this.

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<v Speaker 4>It's male. And since the men have been losing their

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<v Speaker 4>competitive edge because they no longer have the system working

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<v Speaker 4>to give them a competitive edge. Once that's gone, they

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<v Speaker 4>have to be like everybody else and they can no

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<v Speaker 4>longer claim to be better than people just by existing.

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<v Speaker 4>And that is it. And the administration is twisting doing

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<v Speaker 4>a backwards somersault to a catch twenty two landing, you know.

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<v Speaker 4>So that's how they're trying to manipulate the narrative of it,

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<v Speaker 4>not what's actually happening, but the narrative that they want

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<v Speaker 4>everybody to believe is happening. And that's what they've been

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<v Speaker 4>doing for a lot of things. The first thing that

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<v Speaker 4>I think of when I think of these sorts of

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<v Speaker 4>activities is that they're attacking what is preventing them from

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<v Speaker 4>doing what they want. So if you're attacking DEI, you

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<v Speaker 4>don't want equality, right, you don't want diversity right, right,

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<v Speaker 4>you don't want any of that. That's you don't want

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<v Speaker 4>any of that quote unquote wokeouness. You don't want people

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<v Speaker 4>to be taking into account that some people in certain

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<v Speaker 4>societal groups are not allowed to do certain things. They say, well,

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<v Speaker 4>they're they're this, or they're that, they're lazy, they're this

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<v Speaker 4>or that, and you know, or they're you know, they're

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<v Speaker 4>you know, some other derogatory term. And the thing is

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<v Speaker 4>that that's not the case at all. What it is

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<v Speaker 4>is they want to make it look like their oppression

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<v Speaker 4>of a group is actually a good thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, right, re establishing fairness and that kind of thing,

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<v Speaker 1>quote unquote meritocracy.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, if it's meritocracy, there's nothing to change.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, exactly, exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>That's right.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean a twisting backwards somersault to rationalize that. So

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<v Speaker 4>there's a catch twenty two. You can't do it either

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<v Speaker 4>way and still right right.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, we haven't really talked about the specific specifics of

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<v Speaker 1>these grants that are being canceled in two of them.

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<v Speaker 1>Two of the targeted grants are funding for a program

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<v Speaker 1>called the Teacher Quality Partnership Program, and also the other

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<v Speaker 1>one was the Supporting Effective Educator Development Program, both of

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<v Speaker 1>which are intended to give new teachers the support and

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<v Speaker 1>development opportunities they need to become the high quality educators

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<v Speaker 1>that we need. You know, we need to have good

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<v Speaker 1>teachers in this country, and you know, the way to

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<v Speaker 1>do that is to work from the ground up. We

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<v Speaker 1>need to attract qualified teachers, attract talented teachers, but then

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<v Speaker 1>we also need to support them and to nurture them.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, teaching is a difficult profession. You know, I've

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<v Speaker 1>been a teacher myself for over twenty five years, and

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<v Speaker 1>we know that nearly half of all new teachers leave

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<v Speaker 1>the profession within their first five years. And that that

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<v Speaker 1>to me, that's an amazing uh statistic there. And you

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<v Speaker 1>know you don't see that very often, that that high

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<v Speaker 1>level of attrition at such an early early moment, and

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<v Speaker 1>so so it makes all these support programs all that more, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>all that more important. So how it boggles my mind

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<v Speaker 1>to even have to ask this question. We'll go to

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<v Speaker 1>Eli with it first. How could undermining education be seen

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<v Speaker 1>as a good thing?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean you have to take on a perspective

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<v Speaker 2>that is antithetical to to humanism.

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<v Speaker 3>I think.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it is in the best interest of the

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<v Speaker 2>ruling class that those without it, or those outside of

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<v Speaker 2>it are uneducated or ignorant and can't think about or

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<v Speaker 2>comment on, or speak intelligently or engage critically about the

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<v Speaker 2>goings on of the world. And if that's the case,

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<v Speaker 2>then they're just kind of forced to listen to what,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, they're being told, and you know, there's not

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<v Speaker 2>really like when you don't really have a good method

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<v Speaker 2>for determining who's telling the truth or not and the

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<v Speaker 2>answer is that nobody is, then you can get away

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<v Speaker 2>with with, you know, whatever you want. Like we were

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<v Speaker 2>saying earlier that you know, the day, you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>day Internet gets cut off, as you said, there is

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<v Speaker 2>the day you know something major just happened. Right, So, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>if they can keep people ignorant, if you can undermine education,

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<v Speaker 2>you can keep your population ignorant. And you can control

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<v Speaker 2>an ignorant population.

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<v Speaker 1>So are you saying that that there's an aspect of

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<v Speaker 1>like risk management here, right? I mean, just remove possible

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<v Speaker 1>future threats. I mean is that kind of the deal

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<v Speaker 1>or is it or is it merely just you know,

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<v Speaker 1>almost an opiate of the masses kind of thing. Just

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<v Speaker 1>keep the masses dumb and obedient and and and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>keep the keep the dollars flowing in.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess, yeah, little column a little column B right, right,

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<v Speaker 2>it's I think go ahead, John.

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<v Speaker 4>I was just gonna say that, Yeah, it's if you

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<v Speaker 4>haven't the only way you have a democracy or republic

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<v Speaker 4>is with an educated populist. Thomas Jefferson pointed that out.

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<v Speaker 4>So now if you if you don't have, if you

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<v Speaker 4>dumb down the population, then you control the absolute narrative.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, Uh, we're doing the right thing. The economy

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<v Speaker 4>is going fine. You know, it was the last guy

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<v Speaker 4>who had the greatest economy, economy and greatest recovery we

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<v Speaker 4>ever had, who who messed it up for you? You know,

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<v Speaker 4>and then you know things that are not in control

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<v Speaker 4>of the government. Economy is not completely in the control

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<v Speaker 4>of the government. It's more in the control of the

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<v Speaker 4>boardrooms across you know, across the world. So you know,

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<v Speaker 4>it's like there's very little the government can do when

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<v Speaker 4>there's like inflation and things like that. There's a lot

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<v Speaker 4>that can do by you know, regulation and things like that.

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<v Speaker 4>And the Federal Reserve has more power than any other

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<v Speaker 4>branch of the government. So but the people who take

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<v Speaker 4>credit are the people who were elected, even though they

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<v Speaker 4>probably did very little that actually had an effect. So

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<v Speaker 4>you know, it's like the whole thing is the same thing.

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<v Speaker 4>Keep your people to where they don't understand what's going on.

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<v Speaker 4>You can make everything black or white to them, there's

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<v Speaker 4>no nuance, so they can just do what you tell

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<v Speaker 4>them is white, and everything that's black is everything that

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<v Speaker 4>everybody else wants, you know. So that's the propaganda point

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<v Speaker 4>is control the narrative. And to do that, you can't

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<v Speaker 4>have people who think for themselves or have independent sources

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<v Speaker 4>of information.

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<v Speaker 1>So, Jonathan, I think we got time for one more

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<v Speaker 1>quick question, and I want that I want to direct

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<v Speaker 1>this one you and I'll apologize in advance. I want

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<v Speaker 1>to ask you to take the position of the other

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<v Speaker 1>perspective on this problem. Here. So, the current occupant of

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<v Speaker 1>the White House was elected by the American people to

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<v Speaker 1>take specifically to take the helm and steer the ship,

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<v Speaker 1>as it were. Isn't this type of action just another

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<v Speaker 1>way for a leader to provide guidance for the nation

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<v Speaker 1>they've been entrusted with.

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<v Speaker 4>Allegedly elected Anyway, the whole idea is that, yes, the

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<v Speaker 4>mandate is not a full mandate because he didn't win

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<v Speaker 4>one hundred percent there are still constituencies that he has

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<v Speaker 4>to represent, and by deliberately targeting those constituencies, he is

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<v Speaker 4>not anybody. You know. The current administration is doing things

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<v Speaker 4>that are pretty much beyond the pale, most of them.

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<v Speaker 4>Most of this DEI canceling stuff is illegal. Congress passed

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<v Speaker 4>these grants, pass this money for that to find how

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<v Speaker 4>they were supposed to be spent and develop the rules

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<v Speaker 4>for it. So Congress makes the laws. The administration does not.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 4>Right, The administration is there to implement the laws as

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<v Speaker 4>described by Congress. Right, So this is another constitutional crisis

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<v Speaker 4>going on. If you decide to take the legislative branch

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<v Speaker 4>into your own hands, what's that say? You know, so

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<v Speaker 4>that's the question.

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<v Speaker 1>Good question, Yeah, And I think that's a good place

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<v Speaker 1>for us to close out our discussion here