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Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist

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Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle's senior elections correspondent at The

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Federalist and as always, your experienced sure pot not today's

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quest for knowledge. As always, you can email the show

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at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on

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x at fbr LST, make sure to subscribe wherever you

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download your podcast, and of course to the premium version

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of our website as well. Our guest today is Hans

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von Spokowski, senior legal fellow in the new Edwin Meese,

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the Third Institute for the Rule of Law at Advancing

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American Freedom. Hans is a constitutional expert and a election

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law expert. We've talked to him many times and appreciated

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his expertise on the complicated world of election law. Hans

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joins us today to talk about the fate of the

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Save America Act, the election integrity pitfalls ahead, and the

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dems ceaseless lawfare campaign against Trump's allies. Hans, thank you

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so much for joining us in this edition of the

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Federalist Radio Hour.

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Speaker 2: Oh, Matt, thanks for abouting me back.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, we're going to need every bit of your expertise

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to figure out the lay of the land. Here on

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the Save America Act, we have a House that has

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the Republican controlled House, with very little help from Democrats,

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on multiple occasions, has passed a version of what the

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Save America Act, the current version of the Save America Act.

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It's two core principles, of course, involve verification. Voter verification.

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You've got to be a US citizenship to to vote

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in the US elections, to be registered, and you've got

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to show ID photo ID to vote in US elections.

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That's a concept that the vast majority of Americans somewhere

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between seventy and eighty five percent support. So why has

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it been so difficult after it moves from the House,

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and it has on multiple occasions, why is it so

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difficult at the Senate level at this point.

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Speaker 3: Well, one thing I want to point out, because you know,

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the Democrats are just talking about how outrageous it is

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and how this will you know, supposedly disenfranchise all these Americans.

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Speaker 2: I like to point out that.

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Speaker 3: Those two requirements proving your identity and proving your citizenship

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are already the law. If, for example, you want to

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apply for welfare public assistance benefits, federal all the federal

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programs require you to be a citizen and to prove

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your identity.

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Speaker 2: Not only that, but I.

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Speaker 3: Would remind everybody that Matt, you and me and everybody

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listening to this podcast, in order to get the job

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that you have that you use to support yourself and

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your family under federal law, what did you have to

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do to your prospective employer who was hiring You had

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to prove your identity and either your citizenship or the

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fact that you were an alien here legally and have

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a work permit. So the idea that being advanced by

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Democrats is somehow outrageous is just wrong.

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Speaker 2: And it's hard to justify their opposition other.

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Speaker 3: Than they like the fact that aliens are illegally registering

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and voting, and enough of them are doing it that

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they could make the difference in a close election.

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Speaker 2: There's really no other justification for it.

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Speaker 1: And clearly Americans know that I mean, and that is

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with Democrats in a sustained campaign forever. You know, look

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at the state battles over photo ID, and you know

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they have been long and arduous to get to this point.

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But a lot of states have photo ID to vote,

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and their residents love it. They support it, they back it,

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and more and more have come along over the last

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twenty twenty five years in this country. But at every

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turn Democrats have tried to create the narrative that this

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would be disenfranchising to millions of Americans, that this is

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Jim Crow two point zero, as Chuck Schumer and crew

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like to call it. Americans aren't buying that clearly, So

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why is it Democrats keep selling it Other than the

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you know, the idea of you just mentioned that they

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really want legal aliens, non citizens to vote in our elections.

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Speaker 3: Well, the other problem that they have, and this is

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particularly true for example, with voter ID, is that look,

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Democratic leaders.

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Speaker 2: You know, people like Chuck Shaw, they know.

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Speaker 3: That, in fact, their constituents, you know, majority of Democrats

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who vote for them, don't agree with their stance on

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voter ID.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the.

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Speaker 3: Polling overwhelmingly shows that a majority of Democrats and a

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majority of all Americans, no matter ethnicity, including Hispanics and

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Black Americans, all think voter ID is a good idea.

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But remember, huge amounts of money and support for the

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Democrats come from all of these big, very rich foundations

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and very big advocacy groups. Everyone from the Legal Women Voters,

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which long ago became a democratic supporting orgization to other

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organizations like the NAASV. They are adamantly opposed to voter

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ID or proof of citizenship, and democratic leadership doesn't want

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to upset basically the source of the money that helps

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them get elected.

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Speaker 2: And that's the dichotomy day face.

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Speaker 1: You bet follow the money is always the guiding principle

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for all of this stuff. That the other a question

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about it. Okay, so we know the Democrats, we know

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their resistance and their resistance movement. So what about Republicans

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who say that they're all about election integrity but don't

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seem to want to work for that in the US Senate.

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Speaker 3: Well, the thing is, you know, I was just looking

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at this the other day, and overwhelmingly the Republicans support

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the Save Act. There's only a handful of exceptions. You know,

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Susan Collins of Maine, the two supposedly Republican senators from Alaska,

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Mitch McConnell also is voiced opposition to it. You know,

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that's four out of fifty three. I wish that wasn't so,

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but that's that's pretty good. You know, it's hard often

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on many issues to find. Basically, you know, ninety five

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ninety six percent of the Republicans in the Senate agreeing

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on it.

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Speaker 2: Look, the big problem they have is the filibuster rules.

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You know, it takes.

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Speaker 3: Sixty votes not only to end debate on a bill

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once it gets to the floor, but just to get

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the bill to the floor. A lot of people are

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ignoring the fact that in order to have a bill

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like the Save Act get to the floor of the

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Senate where everything can start going, you have to first

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make a motion to bring the bill to the floor.

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That is a debatable motion and it obviously can be filibustered.

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So overcoming those sixty votes is very, very difficult. And

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in this case, this is one of those issues where

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the Democrats are just uniformly party line against anything that

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would increase the integrity and security election process.

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Speaker 1: Now they got Fetterman back. Fetterman was all on board.

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John Fetterman from Pennsylvania, who has been the only truly

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voice of reason coming out of that party over the

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last year plus in this country, is the only one

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who doesn't suffer a severe bout of Trump derangement syndrome.

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He was all in line for securing our elections through

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the Save America Act. Now he's decided that it's not

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going to happen. My understanding is Susan Collins actually came

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out in support of this, so they would have her

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at least the last that I heard. It's the Murkowskis

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and the Mitch McConnell's of the world. And I realized

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there is that threshold, that philibuster threshold, sixty votes is

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very difficult, even when you have a solid majority in

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the Senate. That said, there have been ways presented to

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go around that sixty vote threshold. The talking philibuster is

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that way.

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Speaker 2: What do you think about that?

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Speaker 1: And what do you think about John Thune's resistance to

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that based he says on the numbers, on the math.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, I can't argue with him on the numbers

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when he says he doesn't have the vote to get

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it to the floor to even start the debate, much

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less get a debate going with a talking filibuster, And

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I look, I want this bill to pass, but it's

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hard to argue with the fact it doesn't have the numbers.

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I really think one of the only ways they could

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get this through is if they could somehow attach it

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to one of those must pass bills that Congress has

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usually connected with with the budget with appropriation, so that

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so far hasn't been done.

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Speaker 2: And even there, as you know, look, we really need.

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Speaker 3: To fund the Department of Homeland Security, given that we

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are in an armed conflict abroad, and we're now starting

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to see a series of terrorist attacks inside the United States.

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And yet even with those circumstances, the Democrats are fusing

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to fund the Department of Homeland Security. I mean, that

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is such an extreme position that it's very hard to

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fighter about that against me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it should come as no surprise though for anybody

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who's been paying attention, this is the same party that

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has launched attacks, insurrections. Truly, if January sixth, twenty twenty

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one was an insurrection, what we have seen attacks on

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federal installations and federal employees is definitely an insurrection. And

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it continues to go on because they don't like ice,

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and they don't like they don't like federal law, enforcement

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of federal immigration laws. And unfortunately, sadly, that's where we're

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at in America. So perhaps it's no surprise. Do you

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think there clearly is mounting pressure for some deal to

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be set. How likely do you think it is that

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Republicans would smartly use this in a reconciliation way to

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get around the cloture sixty vote cloture rule, to fund DHS,

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which needs to be done, fully fund DHS, and to

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move the Save America Act through.

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Speaker 3: I think politically it would be very smart for them

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to do that, and I think folks like Mike Lee

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and Ted Cruz realize that. I mean, yeah, it's politically smart,

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it's also something that's needed to secure our elections.

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Speaker 2: Look, one point I want.

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Speaker 3: To make, if I may, is that, you know, the

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biggest claim that's being made by the opposition of this

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is that and you saw the Hillary Clinton claimed made

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this absolutely absurd claim that seventy million women wouldn't be

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able to vote.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that is just so dumb. That is just so idiotic.

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Speaker 3: People need to understand that the Same Act has this

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whole process that it requires states to put in so

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that if someone doesn't have the most easy obvious ways

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of proving citizenship anything from a passport to a real ID,

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a driver's license to birth certificate, they've got a set

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up a process for folks where they can sign an

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AFFI davit and provide whatever other documentation they.

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Speaker 2: Have that shows they're US citizen.

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Speaker 3: And you know, the idea that married women aren't going

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to be able to do that, well, I guess she

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must claim that seventy million married women are unable to

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get on airplanes across the United States because somehow their

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new married name doesn't match their original driver's license.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that is just a ridiculous claim, right, You

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check out a.

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Speaker 1: Book from the library, Hans, and check out a book

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from the library just you know, or buy a pack

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of cigarettes if that married woman is a smoker or

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booze or whatever. Again, Americans see through this nonsense. But

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you know, when you're constantly battered with the same message,

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and the accomplished media, of course, goes right along with it, well,

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then you know you're going to get some Americans who

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aren't really paying attention saying, oh my goodness, am I

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going to not be allowed to vote here because the

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Democrats are telling me that over and over again, and

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the you know, corporate media is pushing that message out

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as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: The other thing about this I think it's important to

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note is, you know, folks on the Left kept saying, oh,

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this never happens. You know, aliens, they don't register, they

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don't vote, so there's no need for that.

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Speaker 2: That again is just not true.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: If you do an easy, simple Google search, you'll find,

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for example, before the twenty four election Virginia, Texas, once

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they started checking their DMV records, we're finding folks who

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had got you know, they were here legally, for example,

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but they had gotten driver's licenses and they'd also registered vote.

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They were removing thousands, thousands of aliens who were registered

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to vote. And we've just very recently, I mean, the

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US Attorney just arrested and indicted an illegal alien who's

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been voting in every presidential election since two thousand and

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eight in Philadelphia. Right, that's how bad the system is,

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and it shows how it doesn't catch individuals. Of course,

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that should be no surprise because, as you'll recall, a

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couple of years ago, the Secretary of State of Pennsylvania

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was forced to resign after it was revealed because of

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a glitch in the state's DMV system, for the last

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twenty years, they've been registering aliens to vote, and ever

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since then they've been resisting revealing how many aliens actually

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got registered and how many have voted. I mean, the

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estimates are could be anywhere from ten thousand to one

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hundred thousand, but we don't know because Pennsylvania has been

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fighting fiercely in court to avoid revealing the number.

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Speaker 2: That in itself tells you a lot.

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Speaker 4: Eighteen hundred companies are in the amazing tariff for refund.

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Race the Watchdout on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski.

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Every day Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and

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the economy and how it affects your wallet. One hundred

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and thirty billion dollars was taken in tariffs. Because those

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tariffs were called off, Companies want their money back. Will

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they get it? Whether it's happening in DC or down

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on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially.

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Speaker 1: Be informed.

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Speaker 4: Check out the Watchdotal on Wall Street podcast with Chris

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mccowski on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely it does. And here's the bigger problem. That's created

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a bigger problem. You know you've been tracking this for

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a long time. There was an explosion of leftist so

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called nonprofit groups five oh one C three's that got

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inside election offices election administration operations for the twenty twenty election.

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They've been planning it for a very long time. They

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were able to do that, and we are seeing the

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fruits of those labors through very dirty voter rolls, particularly

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in blue states that where you have these organizations that

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had registered illegal aliens to vote. We've seen thousands upon

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thousands on these voter rolls. And as you mentioned, we

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have states Michigan that they as at least fifteen sixteen

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illegal immigrants voted in the twenty twenty four election. Iowa

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fifteen illegal immigrants they found voted in the last presidential election.

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This is a reality and it cannot be divorced from

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election integrity. It's gotten worse and worse. Let me ask

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you this, though, do you think that the president President

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Trump has is obviously very serious about this as top priority.

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He's threatened he won't sign basically any other legislation until

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this Save America Act goes to his desk it passes

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the Congress. But do you think his recent calls to

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add other things, including non election related reforms, to this bill,

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is that a motivator to pass this bill or is

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it distraction?

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Speaker 3: I'll see it's unclear what he wants to have added

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in Going back to what we were talking about before,

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I really think the only way they can get this

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past the almost completely uniformed Democratic opposition is to attach

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it to some must pass.

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Speaker 2: Appropriations bill.

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Speaker 3: I really think that's the only way they can get

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it through because I just don't think they can overcome

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the filibuster.

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Speaker 2: Threat in the Senate.

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Speaker 3: And look, I know some people have said, well, we

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should change the filibuster rule and get rid of it.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's difficult to do because changing the.

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Speaker 3: Rules requires a two thirds vote of the Senate. Right,

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Democrats aren't going to agree to that. Others have said, well,

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exercise of the nuclear option the way Harry Reid did

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to change the interpretation of a rule without having that vote.

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But look, Republicans need to think about the future and

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the fact that at some point they will be in

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the minority again. That just guaranteed. That's the way politics work.

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And it was only the filibuster actually led by Mitch McConnell,

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that stopped probably the worst election bill that could have

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passed in the entire history of United States. Back when

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Nancy Pelosi in the House passed HR one a bill

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that would have nationalized our elections and do things like

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ban all voter ID laws across the country. And if

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we get rid of the philibuster at some point in

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the future Democrats take over, that's exactly the kind of

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thing they'll do.

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Speaker 1: Our guest today is Hans Van Spokowski, senior legal fellow

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in the new Edwin Mees the Third Institute for the

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Rule of Law at Advance American Freedom. We're talking today

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about the fate of the Save America Act, the election

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integrity pitfalls ahead, and of course the democrats ceaseless lawfair

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campaign against Trump's allies and where they will go from

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here if they seize power again. And that's really at

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the core of the Save America Act. Because we saw

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what happened in twenty twenty. The editor in chief of

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this news organization, Molly Hemingway, wrote a fantastic book called Rigged,

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because that's exactly what the twenty twenty election was. It

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was rigged, and not in the way that some insists

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that it was. But there were all kinds of things

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that were shoved in under the cover of COVID in

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twenty twenty that were absolute violation of election law. There's

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no doubt about that. Again, we saw these leftists organizations

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embedded in election administration offices in some of the biggest, deepest,

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bluest counties in the country. It was a rigged election.

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So I'm curious, after having the left and their Trump

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derangement syndrome for four years up to that point desperate

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to obviously to remove this guy from office, they are

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even more desperate now as we get to these critical midterms.

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How many Shenanigans do you expect from the left in

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this upcoming election year, given their absolute derangement and desperation,

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and how much of that could be prevented by passage

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of the Save Act.

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Speaker 3: Well, as you know, there's always a huge voter registration

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drive in an election year, and that particularly has already

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started going on this year.

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Speaker 2: So I mean, the.

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Speaker 3: Same act would help prevent aliens from registering and voting.

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Speaker 2: And I know folks are always talking.

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Speaker 3: About illegal aliens, but the problem is both aliens who

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are here illegally and aliens who are here illegally easily

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registering and vote because we have such an honor system.

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So yeah, I mean that's potentially a problem. We've also

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had the issue unfortunately of judges, mostly liberal appointees, federal judges,

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liberal appointees from Biden Obama, who have been ruling against

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the Justice Department. The Justice Department has been trying to

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get state voter registration lists, particularly from loose states, so

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that they can see whether those lists are being accurately maintained.

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I think they have a right to that under various

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federal statutes, but you have judges ruling against them, saying

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they're non titled to very bizarre rulings because, as you

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well know, almost anybody else can get these lists. The

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party organization's candidates buy these lists from the states, and

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yet the judges are saying that the Justice Department, which

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is tasked by federal law with enforcing and making sure

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that those lists are accurate, can't get those lists. I mean,

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it's really just another sign of how bad the federal

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courts have gotten, and that also is an issue in

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this upcoming election.

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Speaker 1: Polling. Is interesting on this because it takes us into

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a broader bill that I know you very much support.

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It's called the Mega Act Make Elections Great Again. As

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I note in a piece on the same America Act

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that published at the Federalists today. You know, this mega

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act would go well beyond in terms of election integrity reform.

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What we're seeing from this very humble ask in the

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Save America Act. It includes all the things that we

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have seen wrong, inherently wrong. You noted at a roundtable

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discussion last month about this bill. This would fix so

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many of the things that not only plague our election

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systems with all kinds of security and integrity issues, it

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would do so much to restore flagging confidence in our elections.

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New polling out suggests that just sixty percent of Americans

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feel confident that votes nationally will be counted accurately and

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fairly in the twenty twenty six election. That's down from

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seventy seven percent as I understand it, from the twenty

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twenty four presidential election. We've got to do something, don't

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we about confidence in our elections?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, we do.

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Speaker 3: And you know, the Supreme US Supreme Court itself noted

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the importance of public confidence back in two thousand and

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eight when it upheld one of the first photo ID

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law requirements for voting in the country. You know, Indiana

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passed that law. They were of course sued by the

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ACLU and all these liberal groups. Supreme Court said that

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there's nothing wrong with requiring a photo ID to vote,

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that it's perfectly constitutional, and they pointed at two things.

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One the fact that the US has a long history,

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unfortunately of election fraud. But second, they said that that

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kind of a requirement is very important to maintaining public

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confidence in the election process because people aren't confident, they're

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not going to turn out to vote. Not only that,

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but it means that the winners of disputed elections, they

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don't really have the mandate that they would normally get

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for winning an election to actually engage in elected office

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and you know, work on the kind of policy solutions

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we need for our public policy problem. So yeah, and

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maintaining and public confidence is extremely important.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it has been battered, of course over

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the last several years in this country. What would the

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Mega Act do? And if we can't get a basic

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election reform bill passed in the Senate, how likely is

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it this manifold very good but you know, very involved

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election reform bill gets passed and signed in the law.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's no question in my mind that.

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Speaker 3: It'll pass in the House, which is controlled by Republicans,

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even with a very narrow vote. But again they have

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extreme problems passing it in the Senate because Democrats, now

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for really three decades, have been adamantly against almost anything

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that increases the security election process, including maintaining the accuracy

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of voter registration roles. Again, this was demonstrated, you know,

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I talked about HR one, the Nancy Pelosi bill.

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Speaker 2: The Democrats passed.

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Speaker 3: It had provisions in it to restrict the ability of

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states to take ineligible voters you know, people.

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Speaker 2: Who have moved away, et cetera, off the voter rolls.

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Speaker 3: In essence, if that bill had become law, it would

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have been almost impossible for states to remove ineligible voters

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from their voter roles. And that that it was what

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they thought was a good idea.

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Speaker 2: And again it's just another example.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the Mega Act, it incorporates the Save Act,

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but then it has a whole.

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Speaker 2: Bunch of provisions on.

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Speaker 3: Increasing the accuracy of voter roles, for example, directing that

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all federal agencies, not just the Department of Homeland Security

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which has an alien database, but all federal agencies that

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have potentially relevant information such as the Social Security Administration,

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would have to cooperate with state efforts to verify both

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identity and citizenship and residents of people registering to vote.

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Speaker 2: Right now, you know you're that that's not happening.

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Speaker 1: Well, what on earth is the justification for that not happening?

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And it's really coming from once again the Democrats, obstructionist

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to any election integrity reform.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know they claim, oh, this will lead to

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the purging they like that word, the purging of legitimate

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voters because of mistakes in databases.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's two problems with that.

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Speaker 3: First of all, no state election officials automatically remove somebody

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from the rules when they get some kind of evidence

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that perhaps, for example, they don't actually live in the state.

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When they get that kind of evidence, they individually investigate

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that case to determine whether that information is correct. Same thing,

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if they get information from the Department Homeland Security that

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someone may not be US citizen, they don't automatically remove them.

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Speaker 2: They investigate first.

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Speaker 3: And the second thing is is there is not a

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single individual in this country who, if they are an

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eligible voter and they were registered, if they are mistakenly

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through an error removed by election officials, every single one

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of those people.

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Speaker 2: Will be able to vote.

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Speaker 3: Why because in two thousand and two, in the Help

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America Vote at Congress passed a provision that requires every

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state to put in a procedure for provisional ballots. That

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means that if you show up at your polling place

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and the polling people say, oh, they're not registered to

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vote because they made a mistake, they removed you, all

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you have to do is assert, oh, no, no, I'm

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an eligible voter. I registered to vote. They have to

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hand you a ballot. It's called a provisional ballot. You

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get to voted. Election officials then, by law are obligated

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to investigate, and if in fact they find they made

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the mistake, they have to count your vote. So this

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idea that all these eligible voters will be purged will

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be able to vote, that's just a falsehood, once again

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put by the left to oppose eluxur reform efforts.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, in it's interesting to me this constant fight about

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that because they clearly don't want the investigation. It's the

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same thing with the honor system they keep talking about.

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Is some kind of real defense against non citizens voting

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in our elections, Well, we already have laws on the books.

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It's a felony to lie about your citizenship when you register.

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Whoever gets caught doing that, Hans, Well, it's not.

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Speaker 3: Only that people don't get caught. I mean when we

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say honor system, people need to understand. What we're talking

477
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about is when you registered to oh, you had to

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ask you whether a US citizen or not. But if

479
00:32:49,119 --> 00:32:51,920
you are an alien and you check the box and say, uh,

480
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,880
I'm a citizen, the vast majority says they do absolutely

481
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:58,039
nothing to verify that.

482
00:32:58,440 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 2: And that's why so many aliens.

483
00:33:00,119 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 3: Aliens are able to successfully get registered and to vote.

484
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,759
And that is the whole problem right there, is that

485
00:33:08,799 --> 00:33:14,240
we have that kind of an honor system that doesn't

486
00:33:14,279 --> 00:33:19,000
actually do any checking to verify that really you really

487
00:33:19,039 --> 00:33:20,240
are a US citizen.

488
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,599
Speaker 1: We have an honor system for people whose first act

489
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:29,319
of entering the country was to break the law. You

490
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,119
make that make sense, I guess.

491
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:31,839
Speaker 2: But yeah.

492
00:33:32,279 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 3: Plus, look, it's overwhelmingly true that even when states discover

493
00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:46,079
that someone is not a US citizen, most election officials

494
00:33:46,119 --> 00:33:50,000
simply remove them from the roles. They do not prosecute them.

495
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,200
I know that from both personal experience as a county

496
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:59,160
election official, and I've seen that in many states.

497
00:33:59,359 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 2: Who uh.

498
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,839
Speaker 3: You know, they'll they'll put out press releases saying, oh,

499
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,640
we removed you know this many aliens for our voter

500
00:34:07,759 --> 00:34:10,760
rolls after discovering that they were now US citizens. But

501
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,199
then when you go to them and say, well, do

502
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,000
you turn this over to prosecutors, they'll say, uh no.

503
00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:18,199
Speaker 2: And even if they did turn it.

504
00:34:18,119 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 3: Over to prosecutors, that you often find the prosecutors don't

505
00:34:22,039 --> 00:34:24,400
do anything about it not a priority.

506
00:34:24,639 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: It hasn't really ever been in these and and and

507
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:30,079
part of that, A big part of that is das

508
00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:33,519
have plenty of other things to worry about and they

509
00:34:33,559 --> 00:34:35,960
don't see this as a priority. And that's the problem.

510
00:34:36,599 --> 00:34:40,079
I know this, this probably never happened, but I want

511
00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:41,880
to get your thoughts on this. Do you think it

512
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:46,719
should be disqualifying to run for office? If you are

513
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:51,199
this adamant adamantly against protecting our elections.

514
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 2: Well, you know, giving.

515
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 3: Giving government bodies the ability to just quali from running

516
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,239
for office, unfortunately, it could open up a Pandora's box.

517
00:35:06,039 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 2: And I do think if that's your public stand.

518
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 3: People should not vote for you. But extending and giving

519
00:35:19,639 --> 00:35:24,000
government officials the ability to disqualify people running for office

520
00:35:25,519 --> 00:35:26,920
to me, that's not a good idea.

521
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand. I understand the pitfalls of that, just

522
00:35:30,639 --> 00:35:34,039
as I understand the pitfalls of nuking the filibuster and

523
00:35:34,119 --> 00:35:36,960
what that means for the future. But it comes from

524
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,440
a point of frustration. I think a lot of Americans

525
00:35:39,599 --> 00:35:46,480
share that frustration with, you know, a party that simply

526
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,119
does not really want free and fair elections. How to

527
00:35:51,119 --> 00:35:54,440
close with a great piece he wrote this week in

528
00:35:54,639 --> 00:35:59,800
The Federalist. It is about the weaponizing of justice. It

529
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:07,800
was extremely vile and continues to be the lawfair that

530
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:12,880
has gone on to target allies of President Trump after

531
00:36:13,039 --> 00:36:17,119
his first term. And he wrote in particular about a

532
00:36:17,159 --> 00:36:21,480
story that I'm very familiar with. I havn't investigated this

533
00:36:21,519 --> 00:36:25,719
for some time, and it is the state of Wisconsin's

534
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:33,079
attack under Democrat Attorney General Josh call On. Jim troopis

535
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:41,039
who is by any measure, a well respected attorney. He

536
00:36:41,159 --> 00:36:44,960
is an expert on recount law in this country, the

537
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,360
go to guy for that.

538
00:36:46,639 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 2: For years.

539
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:52,599
Speaker 1: He was a Dane County judge and held in nationally

540
00:36:53,679 --> 00:36:59,280
high esteem. And he has been dragged through the mud

541
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,199
and over the hot coals in what I think is

542
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:09,679
nothing less than a political witch hunt to try to

543
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:14,880
go after Donald Trump by proxy. Tell us a little

544
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:19,559
bit about that case, where it stands, and why you

545
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:24,119
believe it should end. Now, Look, he's.

546
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:28,639
Speaker 3: Being criminally prosecuted for fraud because he did his job

547
00:37:28,679 --> 00:37:35,639
as a lawyer representing Donald Trump in the twenty twenty

548
00:37:35,679 --> 00:37:38,239
election when there was an election challenge.

549
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 2: An election challenge went all the way to the state

550
00:37:40,519 --> 00:37:41,199
Supreme Court.

551
00:37:41,639 --> 00:37:44,519
Speaker 3: Now Biden won that, but it was a four to

552
00:37:44,599 --> 00:37:48,239
three vote, which in a case, it was not a

553
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,039
frivolous challenge, and the recount.

554
00:37:51,079 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 2: That was going on in this state.

555
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,519
Speaker 3: And yet Jim Troop is basically for doing his best

556
00:37:57,519 --> 00:38:01,480
as a lawyer as being prosecuted for fraud. This is

557
00:38:01,599 --> 00:38:08,079
such a bogus case that the Attorney General's own legal staff,

558
00:38:08,119 --> 00:38:11,440
when they were consulted about it, they present a legal

559
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:16,079
opinion saying there had been no violation of Wisconsin state law.

560
00:38:17,159 --> 00:38:23,519
But Carl basically overrode that got Jim troopis indicted anyway,

561
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,559
And there's nothing to this case other than a political vendetta.

562
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,239
And that has been made worse by the fact that

563
00:38:33,119 --> 00:38:36,039
there's now evidence that the trial judge in the case

564
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,800
who issued an order refusing to dismiss the criminal prosecution.

565
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,199
There's evidence that he didn't even draft that order, that

566
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:52,519
it may have been drafted by another judge, a retired judge,

567
00:38:53,159 --> 00:38:56,119
all of which is a huge violation of the judicial

568
00:38:56,199 --> 00:38:59,679
code of conduct, and that trial judge, when confronted with this,

569
00:39:00,119 --> 00:39:03,559
has refused to do anything about it, leading to Troopists

570
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:08,079
appealing the case. Your court, the Court of Appeals Wisconsin,

571
00:39:08,159 --> 00:39:08,840
refused to do.

572
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:10,079
Speaker 2: Anything about it.

573
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,079
Speaker 3: It's now before the state Supreme Court, and even there

574
00:39:13,079 --> 00:39:15,480
he has a problem because you have two justices on

575
00:39:15,519 --> 00:39:19,199
that court, including the chief Justice, who have acted in

576
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:26,039
a way that is outrageous, attacking Troopis's character, qualifications, and

577
00:39:26,159 --> 00:39:32,519
credentials publicly podcasts, press releases. I don't know if you

578
00:39:32,559 --> 00:39:35,880
realize it, a matt but that's the kind of action.

579
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:42,239
If I, as a lawyer, did that attacked the credentials, qualifications,

580
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,199
character of a judge, I could be disciplined by my

581
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:50,440
state bar association. And yet these two justices on the

582
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,159
Supreme Court have acted in a way that really should

583
00:39:54,199 --> 00:39:57,840
disqualify them from actually being on that court.

584
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,159
Speaker 2: And that's who his appeal is up before. Now.

585
00:40:00,679 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: Their attorneys, their jurist. Why are there any repercussions for

586
00:40:06,079 --> 00:40:11,239
them and their conduct which is absolutely abhorrent if you

587
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:16,320
read some of the politically charged statements that these two

588
00:40:16,679 --> 00:40:24,360
justices have made to taint the waters, and they refuse

589
00:40:24,519 --> 00:40:27,679
to recuse themselves. And that's really what this comes down to,

590
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,000
is that Jim Troops, and I should mention it's not

591
00:40:30,039 --> 00:40:33,920
just Jim troopis there are two others as well, also

592
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,239
an attorney who has been practicing campaign law for a

593
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,800
long time. His name is Ken Cheesebro, And you know

594
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:47,239
that Ken Chezebro was involved in what the left keeps

595
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:53,639
calling the fake elector falsely calling it that alternative alternate elector.

596
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:59,039
He advised the Gore campaign to follow this strategy. The

597
00:40:59,079 --> 00:41:02,440
Gore campaign was very much considering it, but decided against

598
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,599
it in the two thousand election, and they did so

599
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:11,280
even the liberal justices of the Supreme Court said they

600
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,880
did so at their own political peril. So this can

601
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:22,519
be seen as nothing but a politically charged prosecution to

602
00:41:23,079 --> 00:41:30,400
three individuals who clearly are caught up in this very political,

603
00:41:32,079 --> 00:41:35,880
you know, motive, politically motivated, which hunt that is going

604
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,159
on right now? Where do you see this ending? Is

605
00:41:40,199 --> 00:41:44,679
there a way that these three men avoid being convicted

606
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,880
of these insane charges.

607
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 2: Well, it's only if the.

608
00:41:52,519 --> 00:41:55,559
Speaker 3: Two Supreme Court justices, who have acted in what I

609
00:41:55,599 --> 00:41:59,000
considered be an unethical and unprofessional manner, if they astu

610
00:41:59,159 --> 00:42:05,000
accuse them, or if they finally do the right thing.

611
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:11,320
And unfortunately, the evidence about the Wisconsin judicial system is

612
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:15,880
that it is biased, that it is unfair that just

613
00:42:16,079 --> 00:42:20,960
judges and prosecutors there I have no hesitation about using

614
00:42:21,039 --> 00:42:26,480
the system to go after members of the opposite political party. So,

615
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:32,559
you know, maybe I'm being cynical, but I have my

616
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,199
doubts that this tremendous wrong is going to be rectified.

617
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: I don't think you're cynical at all about this. One

618
00:42:39,039 --> 00:42:43,440
need only look at the notorious, infamous John Doe investigation

619
00:42:44,199 --> 00:42:49,599
of the previous decade to know just what the leftist

620
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,960
in Wisconsin, including the judicial system, is capable of doing.

621
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,519
Final question for you, appreciate all of your time and

622
00:42:55,559 --> 00:42:59,760
your expertise today, But given what is going on in Wisconsin,

623
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:06,440
given the desperation of the Democrat Party in this country,

624
00:43:06,639 --> 00:43:10,920
if they regain power, where do you see law fare

625
00:43:11,159 --> 00:43:14,280
going in America after twenty twenty six?

626
00:43:15,079 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 3: Oh? I think it'll be even worse than it was

627
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:24,440
after the twenty twenty election. Democrats have shown that they

628
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:29,559
have no regrets, no compunction whatsoever about using the criminal

629
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,280
justice system against their political opponents, and I would expect

630
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:43,239
that Star Chambers Soviet style show trials will be implemented

631
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,519
in as many blue states as possible and blue cities

632
00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:54,679
as possible to go after Republicans who they oppose. And

633
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:59,960
that's going to be the final straw, I'm sorry, sorry,

634
00:44:00,079 --> 00:44:06,159
final nail in corrupting our judicial system, which already is

635
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:12,159
having problems because of the Romanium radical liberal left wing

636
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,679
judges appointed by Joe Biden and Barack Obama who are

637
00:44:18,199 --> 00:44:22,039
not complying with the law, twisting the law, breaking the law.

638
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:23,159
Speaker 2: For political purposes.

639
00:44:23,599 --> 00:44:26,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've spent it time and time again. Just look

640
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,920
at the past to know what the future holds. Thanks

641
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,519
to my guest today, Hans von Spakowski, senior legal fellow

642
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:37,000
in the new Edwin Meaes the Third Institute for the

643
00:44:37,119 --> 00:44:41,920
Rule of Law at Advancing American Freedom, You've been listening

644
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,000
to another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt

645
00:44:45,079 --> 00:44:49,000
Kittle's senior elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll be back

646
00:44:49,039 --> 00:44:53,360
soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of freedom. I'm

647
00:44:53,400 --> 00:45:04,559
anxious for the frame. I heard the fame voice the Reason,

648
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:08,960
and then it faded away.

649
00:45:13,199 --> 00:45:13,599
Speaker 2: Mm hmm