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True Murder with your host, 31 00:01:30.599 --> 00:01:42.920 journalist and author Dan Zufanski, Good Evening. 32 00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:47.079 In nineteen thirty one, San Diego's idyllic image as a 33 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:51.640 beach town with peaceful suburbs concealed a harrowing reality. A 34 00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:56.000 series of unsolved crimes targeting women, fueling fear and vulnerability. 35 00:01:56.680 --> 00:02:00.000 Monsters on the Loose tells the tragic and true story 36 00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:04.799 of three women murdered early that year, Virginia Brooks, Luis Tober, 37 00:02:05.159 --> 00:02:10.520 and Hazel Bradshaw. Local law enforcement, out of town, criminologists 38 00:02:10.520 --> 00:02:14.800 and investigators from what would become the FBI pursued hundreds 39 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:19.520 of leads statewide. Newspapers covered every angle and clue, and 40 00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:23.439 sometimes played a role in the investigations. Yet the killers 41 00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:27.479 were never identified and brought to justice. In Monsters on 42 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:31.479 the Loose, Award winning author and historian Richard L. Kerrico 43 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:35.520 pieces fragments of evidence together for three cold cases, shetting 44 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:39.439 light on a dark chapter in San Diego's history. More 45 00:02:39.479 --> 00:02:43.560 than ninety years after the murders, Karako emerges as an 46 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:48.439 advocate for the victims, particulously reconstructing their stories immersed in 47 00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:53.879 dusty files, long forgotten oral histories, and newly discovered investigation records. 48 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:58.759 His primary objective remains unwavering to seek justice for the 49 00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:02.120 three young women wid no witnesses to the crimes. The 50 00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:06.319 significance of circumstantial evidence and speculation, both then and now 51 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:10.080 became paramount, and he may have even solved one of 52 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:13.120 the murders. The book that were featuring this evening is 53 00:03:13.240 --> 00:03:16.719 Monsters on the Loose, The true story of three unsolved 54 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:20.319 murders in Prohibition era San Diego, with my special guest, 55 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:24.360 historian and author Richard L. Carico. Welcome to the program, 56 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:26.919 and thank you very much for this interview. Richard L. 57 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:29.000 Caraco, thank you glad to join you. 58 00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:32.599 You write that there were three dead women, one stabbed, 59 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:36.159 one hanged, and one strangled murdered in San Diego within 60 00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:38.919 four months in nineteen thirty one. But they were not 61 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:41.400 the only cases of murder and child kidnapping in San 62 00:03:41.439 --> 00:03:45.000 Diego that year. Like most major cities, San Diego had 63 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:48.120 plenty of unsolved murders to examine. But you, as an 64 00:03:48.199 --> 00:03:52.439 archaeologist and historian, you picked these three murders Virginia Brooks, 65 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:56.400 Louise Tuber, and Hazel Bradshaw to explore and write about 66 00:03:56.439 --> 00:04:00.439 for several reasons. Tell us about that exploration, and tell 67 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:04.439 us about the several reasons why you chose these three 68 00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:07.560 murders in particular to write about in Monsters on the Loose. 69 00:04:07.759 --> 00:04:10.840 Thanks Dan, Well, Basically, I was doing research. This is 70 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:13.879 how things go sometimes when one does research. I was 71 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:17.240 doing research on Native Americans and some things that were 72 00:04:17.240 --> 00:04:20.439 happening mean to them in the nineteen thirties. This was 73 00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:24.879 like almost ten years ago. And at some point, as 74 00:04:24.920 --> 00:04:27.480 I was looking to old newspapers and at that time 75 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:30.519 they were on microfilm, they hadn't all been digitized, I 76 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:33.199 saw one of the murders pop up and I started 77 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:36.519 looking into that particular murder, and it was Virginia, the 78 00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:41.560 little Girl, Virginia Brooks. And then I sort of got 79 00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:44.319 on this quest that maybe I'd write an article for 80 00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:47.680 a local newspaper or a magazine about the death of 81 00:04:47.720 --> 00:04:50.560 a child, a very young child of kidnapping, and one 82 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:53.199 thing led to another, and suddenly I realized that in 83 00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:55.839 nineteen thirty one, in a town that was pretty well 84 00:04:56.399 --> 00:04:58.639 known today at least to be pretty laid back and 85 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:01.279 not a high crime rate, all of that, that there 86 00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:04.839 were at least at least nine unsolved murders of people 87 00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:09.600 under twenty five, and that San Diego was number two 88 00:05:09.639 --> 00:05:13.000 in the nation in suicides, and that there was an 89 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:16.199 underbelly to San Diego that most people didn't think about. 90 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:19.199 So then I got the idea for a book and 91 00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:23.360 started researching the night and Murders, and I paired it 92 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:28.160 down to these three because they covered slightly different chronological 93 00:05:28.279 --> 00:05:30.839 age groups, if you will, with the little girl being 94 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:37.920 eight or nine kidnapped, and then Louise Tolbert seventeen described 95 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:41.279 as beautiful and wanted to run away from home and 96 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:43.920 lived with a father who was, you know, nice guy, 97 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:47.680 but pushing on her in her early teenage years, mid 98 00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:50.519 teenage years. And then Hazel, who was a little bit 99 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:53.199 older twenty two, went out on a date and then 100 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:57.199 found murdered later. So three different types of women, if 101 00:05:57.240 --> 00:06:01.279 you will, young women, pretty similar economic and the depression 102 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:06.279 was going on, and different methods of being killed, and 103 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:10.319 then the investigations took different tracks. Same people were involved 104 00:06:10.360 --> 00:06:13.600 in many cases at the Standugel police department and the sheriffs, 105 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:17.040 but the studies ended up being different from the forensics 106 00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:20.680 and the evidence and the newspapers involved and all that. 107 00:06:20.959 --> 00:06:23.839 So you're right in your introduction that part of it 108 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:27.480 was I just couldn't believe that we knew so little 109 00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:30.160 about these women, young women, and I did want to 110 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:33.920 somewhat advocate for them, and also because it was one 111 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:36.199 of my sub interests, get into how the newspapers of 112 00:06:36.279 --> 00:06:39.120 the time covered the cases, because you know, we're going 113 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:41.800 through a period now where the media comes under a 114 00:06:41.839 --> 00:06:45.800 lot of criticisms from all different sides. And if you 115 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:48.720 read the newspapers back in that time, al Capone was 116 00:06:48.720 --> 00:06:51.560 still alive, you know, and there was all this almost 117 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:55.279 getting into gangsters as good people. So that was impetus 118 00:06:55.279 --> 00:06:55.560 for it. 119 00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:59.920 You also talk about the cozy relationship the press enjoy 120 00:07:00.519 --> 00:07:05.240 with the police and their belief You say that they 121 00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:07.959 almost thought they were part of the investigation. 122 00:07:07.639 --> 00:07:10.199 Correct, unlike today, where I'm sure some of that still 123 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:12.399 goes on to some degree. But this is more like 124 00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:15.680 if you look at an old nineteen twenties nineteen thirties 125 00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:19.199 movies where the newspaper men with their little visors are 126 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:22.920 sitting around a bar with smoke and cigars going on 127 00:07:23.399 --> 00:07:25.839 and shots of whiskey, and right next to him as 128 00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:28.959 a policeman, either in uniform or not, and they're routinely 129 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:32.439 talking about cases and talking about women and talking about 130 00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:36.040 because prohibition was going on, talking about booze. So when 131 00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:38.759 I was growing up in San Diego downtown, there was 132 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:41.839 a bar that is no longer there, but that bar, 133 00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:45.399 even when I was there in the late sixties mid sixties, 134 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:49.279 was the hangout for the newspaper men whose office was 135 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:52.959 within blocks of the police department, and they routinely met 136 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:57.399 and drank together, smoked cigars together, went to the racetrack together. 137 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:00.519 And so there was that side of the press. And 138 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:02.839 then it was also the fact that as soon as 139 00:08:02.839 --> 00:08:05.240 a police call came in or the word got out 140 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:08.279 that there was a victim or a murder happening or 141 00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:12.439 happened in many cases, the newspaper reporters got there right 142 00:08:12.519 --> 00:08:15.240 after or at the same time as the police officers, 143 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:18.839 and oftentimes the crime scene wasn't cordoned off with the 144 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:23.120 yellow tape that's so ubiquitous now in crime cases. And 145 00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:27.000 in some cases the newspaper people would actually pick up 146 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:29.720 evidence and show it to the policeman or in one 147 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:31.879 case actual they helped carry one of the bodies away. 148 00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:33.480 So a very different time. 149 00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:33.879 Now. 150 00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:37.320 You talk about the newspapers at the time, tell us 151 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:41.600 about the reporting and the headlines. 152 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:45.320 Sure it was. Anyone who's ever read about or seen 153 00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:48.360 a video or a documentary of the Limberg case, the 154 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:52.080 baby that was kidnapped and killed. No, the newspapers of 155 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:54.120 the time, If I was going to stick one word 156 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:56.960 on it, it would be salacious. And it came out 157 00:08:57.000 --> 00:09:00.039 of you know, the Hearst newspapers sort of started that 158 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:03.039 as a very popular thing up in San Francisco with 159 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:06.000 The Examiner and other newspapers, and the object was to 160 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:10.720 write big, bold, black headlines whatever the topic was, to 161 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:13.320 get the reader to buy the newspaper. Obviously to sell 162 00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:17.399 more advertising. So today newspapers are obviously fading away somewhat. 163 00:09:17.639 --> 00:09:21.039 Advertisings dropped off, but this was the heyday of newspapers 164 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:24.519 and large numbers of people subscribed to them read them. 165 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:27.480 You had newsboys on the corners in San Diego and 166 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:30.639 New York and San Francisco hawky newspapers, and they would 167 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:33.720 of course yell out the headline. So part of that 168 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:36.799 was as you read the article towards women more than men, 169 00:09:36.919 --> 00:09:41.000 obviously they would describe for instance, Luis, who was in 170 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:45.159 fact quite beautiful at seventeen, but they would say well rounded. 171 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:49.440 The luptuous, They would describe her dress, whereas at a 172 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:52.600 male being killed, a man being killed would simply say 173 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:55.440 a young attorney was found hang today they wouldn't describe 174 00:09:55.480 --> 00:09:58.840 him as hunky or you know, handsome or nice. 175 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:01.519 Yeah, so that was a big part of the story 176 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:02.080 at the time. 177 00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:06.159 Yeah, let's get to the first person, the first character 178 00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:09.480 in the story, and it's a ten year old Virginia 179 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:14.240 Brooks born in nineteen twenty in Indianapolis, and this is 180 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:18.279 February eleventh, nineteen thirty one. Faithful morning. Tell us a 181 00:10:18.279 --> 00:10:21.879 little bit about Virginia Brooks, who is she? And her 182 00:10:21.960 --> 00:10:26.519 parents Blanche and John. Tell us about life for Virginia 183 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:29.200 Brooks before February eleventh, nineteen thirty one. 184 00:10:29.320 --> 00:10:32.279 It's almost as if it's a TV show. She was 185 00:10:32.519 --> 00:10:35.480 a really good student, loved to go to the library 186 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:37.919 back when public libraries were you know, the venue for 187 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:42.200 getting books, especially for marginalized people or less wealthy people. 188 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:44.240 And this was during the depression, it had been going 189 00:10:44.279 --> 00:10:46.600 on for a year and a half. And she was 190 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:49.559 dark haired, and she cut her hair in the style 191 00:10:49.879 --> 00:10:51.919 or her mom cut her hair in the style of 192 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:54.559 sort of a pixie cut, which was made really popular 193 00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:57.720 by a movie actress at the time. She had two brothers, 194 00:10:57.840 --> 00:11:01.440 one older, one slightly younger, and blanched. The mother was 195 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:04.080 right out of a central casting for the stay at 196 00:11:04.120 --> 00:11:08.200 home in a house dress, vacuumine and cooking and going 197 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:11.159 to the market virtually every day as people did, to 198 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:13.240 go to the store and buy what they needed to cook, 199 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:17.200 and was not terribly well educated. The mother wasn't. The 200 00:11:17.279 --> 00:11:20.960 father was a itinerant truck driver but also had been 201 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:24.960 a lumberman up in the northwest. Was described as gaunt 202 00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:28.799 and tall if you will, and Virginia routinely walked the 203 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:31.759 roughly one point one or so miles to school five 204 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:34.039 days a week, something you know, kind of unheard of 205 00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:38.320 out here in San Diego today generally and met a 206 00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:40.320 girlfriend on the way and they would walk to school 207 00:11:40.360 --> 00:11:42.080 and on the way home go buy the library and 208 00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:45.559 pick up books. And three days before Valentine's Day nineteen 209 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:49.240 thirty one, Virginia in her little dress with her red 210 00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:53.360 jacket and a book bag and lunch that included an 211 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:56.279 orange and ten cents in her pocket, set out to 212 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:58.080 go to school and disappeared. 213 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:01.320 She was supposed to meet her friend, you mention, Katie Luco, 214 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:05.399 and they routinely would walk a certain distance when they met, 215 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:08.080 and she waited for ten minutes and her friend didn't 216 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:11.159 show up. Now there's accounts by people that saw her 217 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:14.679 up to a certain point. How do the detectives in 218 00:12:14.759 --> 00:12:19.919 San Diego Sheriff Department, Blake Mason, how do they proceed well? 219 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:22.320 Because she was so young, and because it was such 220 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:26.320 a regular pattern, unlike today, perhaps unlike today, there was 221 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:29.080 really not a big consideration that she was a runaway 222 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:34.200 or she'd intentionally disappear, although that was mentioned so that evening. 223 00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:37.080 The police were notified the sheriff because it was actually 224 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:40.320 in the unincorporated area, and immediately the police and the 225 00:12:40.360 --> 00:12:43.159 sheriff both of them went out and started interviewing people, 226 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:46.399 and it was known that she normally met Katie, who 227 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:49.879 was of Mexican extract, and walked with her. So they 228 00:12:49.879 --> 00:12:52.519 talked to Katie right away, and then they started interviewing 229 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:56.120 people of the neighborhood well into the next day, obviously 230 00:12:56.120 --> 00:12:58.639 interviewing them. And the trouble with that is they got 231 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:02.000 terribly conflicting. Some people saw her on one side of 232 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:04.960 the street, some sawrow on the other. Some woman said 233 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:07.159 she was pretty sure she saw her playing down in 234 00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:09.759 a canyon. We have these very deep canyons here in 235 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:12.919 San Diego that I played in as a child. Other 236 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:15.960 people said, oh, she got in a roadster with this man. No, 237 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:18.759 she got in a coop with a man and a woman. 238 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:22.879 So you can sort of imagine the bewildering. The context 239 00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:25.759 that the police actually got after about two days. If 240 00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:27.480 he brought out a map and he brought out the 241 00:13:27.480 --> 00:13:30.360 people that allegedly she was with, it was all over 242 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:33.279 the place. So the only thing that it pinned down 243 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:36.440 was a timeline because her brother had actually ridden by 244 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:39.320 her on a bicycle and waved at her and laughed, 245 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:41.639 you know, because he was riding his swim bike and 246 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:44.919 she was walking and then she never showed up. So 247 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:49.440 they started the investigation right away, talking to people, and 248 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:52.000 there was no benefit of the doubt given to the 249 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:54.600 fact that she was probably a runaway, as people might 250 00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:57.360 think today. She was gone and taken by someone. 251 00:13:57.600 --> 00:13:59.759 Now, you say, this was East San Diego at that 252 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:05.039 time time was largely rural, So in this extensive search 253 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:09.320 it included barns and garages and abandoned homes. Tell us 254 00:14:09.320 --> 00:14:12.320 about this very very extensive search. 255 00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:15.759 Yeah, in that way, it is somewhat like the Limberg kidnapping. 256 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:18.679 I mean that was maybe obviously out of a house, 257 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:21.080 but they were in a relatively rural area as well. 258 00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:24.879 So the police realizing it wasn't a big force and 259 00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:28.679 there was not a lot of crime, I mean statistically, 260 00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:31.080 they weren't set up in a way to do this 261 00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:34.759 kind of investigation. So they enlisted the aid of Boy Scouts, 262 00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:38.840 Women's clubs, military officers because we had a pretty large 263 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:43.399 both marine and sailor component here in San Diego. And 264 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:46.519 so they went out and literally knocked on door every door, 265 00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:49.559 and they went there were a lot of abandoned houses 266 00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:51.919 because it was the depression. They went down in a 267 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:53.919 few cellars that we have here. We don't have a 268 00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:56.919 lot of sellers. But they went down into basements and cellars, 269 00:14:57.399 --> 00:15:00.879 and then one of the women's clubs put club their 270 00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:03.720 people put on their work clothes, if you will, and 271 00:15:03.879 --> 00:15:07.120 went through the canyons, looking through all the bushes. They 272 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:10.600 actually enlisted the Navy pilots, and they flew over in 273 00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:13.399 their bid wing airplanes and got so low to the 274 00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:17.320 ground looking into the canyons and these valleys that they 275 00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:20.360 were actually scraping the brush with their wheels, according to 276 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:23.080 some accounts, and so it was described at the time, 277 00:15:23.320 --> 00:15:26.039 and it probably was for several years the largest manhunt, 278 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:29.519 if you will, or the largest investigation for a child 279 00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:33.240 or for anyone in San Diego County history. And both newspapers, 280 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:37.039 the morning paper, the Union, and the evening paper Tribune 281 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:41.080 covered it in even extra additions, and they would find 282 00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:44.159 things they thought might have been where she was, or 283 00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:46.960 someone found part of a jacket that looked like her 284 00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:50.720 as in a canyon, and those were newsworthy, they were 285 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:55.200 worth riding up. So quite the search for poor little Virginia. 286 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:57.679 In this police having the follow up any lead, for 287 00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:01.399 any possibility that it might lead to the abductor. February 288 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:07.000 twenty six, John Brooks receives a cryptic letter. What does 289 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:10.159 that letter instruct him to do? And what does he do? 290 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:13.200 Well? He received this letter, and of course it wasn't 291 00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:16.159 Postmarke or well, it wasn't didn't have a new return 292 00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:18.960 address on it. And so here we are in San Diego, 293 00:16:19.159 --> 00:16:22.000 and Arizona is about one hundred and thirty miles one 294 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:24.879 hundred and forty miles east of here, across the Colorado River. 295 00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:28.639 And this letter says, if you come out to court Side, Arizona, 296 00:16:28.759 --> 00:16:32.080 near quurt Side, Arizona, very small town out there, old 297 00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:35.840 mining town, go see the postmaster. He has information about 298 00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:39.960 your daughter, and very specific information about your daughter. John 299 00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:43.320 was a little discouraged by the police activities. The letter, 300 00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:45.919 of course said, don't notify the police. Just go do 301 00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:48.120 it on your own. It'll be okay. And so he 302 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:51.080 and a couple of buddies, because he didn't own an automobile, 303 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:54.039 I had an old truck, drove one hundred and twenty 304 00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:57.559 thirty forty miles through the night, got out to court Side, 305 00:16:57.679 --> 00:16:59.960 found the postmaster when he was open the next morning, 306 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:02.159 and of course the postmaster said, I have no idea 307 00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:04.599 what you're talking about. I haven't seen any little girl 308 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:07.599 out here. I did read about in the newspaper. Gosh. 309 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:10.160 I feel sorry for you, but there's nothing I can 310 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:13.200 do for you. And then John and his compatriots drove 311 00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:16.440 back to San Diego, and it appeared to the next newspaper, 312 00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:19.839 the next day's newspapers as a big headline back to 313 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:23.079 the desert, worthless, blah blah blah. And of course the 314 00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:25.839 police were angry that John had done that on his own, 315 00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:28.400 because had it panned out a little bit better, how 316 00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:30.640 would that have played out? But that was part of 317 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:33.839 what her father did. Today, driving that distance in a 318 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:36.279 nice air condition car wouldn't be a big deal, but 319 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:38.720 in nineteen thirty one, driving one hundred and forty or 320 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:41.839 so miles across the desert, the mountains and down the 321 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:45.079 mountains was not something one did casually, if you will. 322 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:47.839 So that was just one of many many dead ends 323 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:50.640 happened to the father and to the police. She was 324 00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:53.319 reported to be in San Francisco, she was reported to 325 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:56.200 be in Yuma, Arizona. All over the place. So just 326 00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:59.799 about any especially man, single man, walking around with a 327 00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:02.519 young girl ten year old nine year old girl in 328 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:05.960 any town in the West was suspect. So it was 329 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:06.960 interesting times. 330 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:11.160 You're right about Nearly one month later, March tenth, the 331 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:14.480 body of Virginia Brooks is found wrapped in burlap and 332 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:18.119 there are headlines in the paper. Girl packed to pieces 333 00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:23.000 by fiend. Body is discovered by a sheepman at the 334 00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:27.640 at this Kerneye area. So tell us about the discovery 335 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:29.079 of Virginia Brooks. 336 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:32.240 Yeah, Camp Kearney is actually called Kurney Mason, named after 337 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:35.759 the soldier of the nineteen forties and fifties, eighteen fifties. 338 00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:39.359 Excuse me, that was out here, this sheepherder Moses and 339 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:42.000 his dog and sometimes his dog in a newspaper is 340 00:18:42.039 --> 00:18:45.519 called Shep and sometimes he's called Blackie. That just part 341 00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:49.400 of the inconsistencies was out He first told investigators he 342 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:52.759 was out walking around because he's a sheepherder. Later he 343 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:54.559 said he was out there. He admitted he was out 344 00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:57.759 with his twenty two shooting at ten cans. But Shep 345 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:00.759 or Blackie the dog went up to the lap bag 346 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:03.039 and started sniffing at it. And the setting is the 347 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:07.319 vegetation up there on that mesa is low grass, very 348 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:12.160 low grass and some chaparral creosote cactusy stuff. So Moses 349 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:16.559 walked over and in one instance he said the bag 350 00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:19.480 was partially opened and he could see the decomposing body 351 00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:21.880 of a child. In another interview, he said he took 352 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:25.079 out his knife and cut the bag open to look inside, 353 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:30.400 so little discrepancies there. He's about half a mile from 354 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:33.680 the major highway that later became three ninety five, running 355 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:36.440 north and south. He ran out to the road with 356 00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:38.920 his dog and flagged down a truck driver who then 357 00:19:39.079 --> 00:19:42.759 drove into old town San Diego and called the police. 358 00:19:43.240 --> 00:19:47.359 Police came out with newspaper reporters and started the investigation, 359 00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:51.599 opened up the bags, and one of the police officers said, 360 00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:54.079 as soon as he saw the little red jacket and 361 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:57.680 the dark hair, he knew that he'd found Virginia Brooks. 362 00:19:58.279 --> 00:20:02.240 And so then the newspapers big banner headlines photographs of 363 00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:07.039 her being carried in a coffin basically to a hearst, 364 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:10.720 and then the follow up investigation of what Moses had found, 365 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:14.200 and it was determined Moses said, well, she wasn't out 366 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:16.240 there a day or two ago, so this is not 367 00:20:16.359 --> 00:20:19.839 where she was killed. She was dumped here, and indeed 368 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:24.359 the forensics indicated she had been half buried somewhere, and 369 00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:26.839 that was a big part of the investigation, was she 370 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:29.799 still had soil clinging to parts of her body. The 371 00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:33.279 hacking part Dan was interesting because the newspapers really played 372 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:35.559 that up. One of them even said, I think it 373 00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:38.720 was the Los Angeles paper that she'd been a viscerated, 374 00:20:39.079 --> 00:20:41.079 that this fiend had gone in and cut out her 375 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:42.440 inerds and threw them away. 376 00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:42.880 Wow. 377 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:46.720 And in fact it was more likely the bugs and 378 00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:50.720 the animals wherever she was buried. So very gruesome for 379 00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:52.160 the Times, Yep, you. 380 00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:55.480 Read about a couple of the officers detected Paul Hayes 381 00:20:55.599 --> 00:21:00.160 contributing to the headlines in the paper being salacious. Tell 382 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:03.039 us a little bit about their behavior and what they 383 00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:03.960 said to the press. 384 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:06.759 You definitely get the impression, not all of them, but 385 00:21:06.839 --> 00:21:09.599 many of the police officers and more the police and 386 00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:14.160 the sheriffs enjoyed the limelight. They liked being quoted in 387 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:19.519 the newspaper, and they were constantly even in Virginia Brooks's case, 388 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:21.640 where it's kind of hard to be salacious about a 389 00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:25.440 ten year old girl and yet kind of describing almost 390 00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:28.839 taken end up to the edge of describing that she'd 391 00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:31.920 been sexually molested, which she may or may not have been. 392 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:35.559 The body didn't tell that story, but talking about, you know, 393 00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:37.960 the kind of person that would do this, and there 394 00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:40.920 are monsters out there doing this to little girls. But 395 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:43.400 I'm going to find her, you know, and this case 396 00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:48.000 won't go unsolved. And clearly he knew that newspapers won 397 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:50.720 certain quotes, so he was one of the first people 398 00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:53.599 who did, in fact talk about that her body had 399 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:58.640 been hacked and decapitated, and she was not decapitated, had 400 00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:02.720 came loose from the the body basically, so he was 401 00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:05.839