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We're prohibited by law 42 00:01:58.319 --> 00:02:02.840 eighteen plus terms and conditions supply see website for details. 43 00:02:06.359 --> 00:02:07.200 T Padian. 44 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:19.800 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 45 00:02:19.879 --> 00:02:22.919 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 46 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:30.280 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 47 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:34.000 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 48 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:38.639 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 49 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:52.000 journalist and author Dan Zupanski, Good Evening. 50 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:57.639 From eighteen ninety five to nineteen thirty seven, ninety three 51 00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:02.039 men were hanged at California's full State prison, and this 52 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:04.599 book is the first to tell all of their stories, 53 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:08.960 recounting long forgotten tales of murder and swift justice or 54 00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:13.879 sometimes swift injustice that hanged an innocent man. Based on 55 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:16.879 a treasury of historical information that has been hidden from 56 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:20.680 the public for nearly seventy years, the full stories of 57 00:03:20.759 --> 00:03:24.680 these ninety three executed men are presented in this collection, 58 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:29.360 including their origins, their crimes, the investigations that brought them 59 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:33.240 to justice, their trials, and their deaths at the gallows. 60 00:03:34.039 --> 00:03:38.879 This wealth of previously unpublished historical detail gives a vivid 61 00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:42.840 view of the sociology of early twentieth century crime and 62 00:03:42.919 --> 00:03:45.360 of the resulting prison life. 63 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:46.800 Readers take a trip. 64 00:03:46.599 --> 00:03:49.879 Back in time to the hard boiled early twentieth century 65 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:54.639 California that inspired the novels of Dashiell Hammett and countless 66 00:03:54.680 --> 00:03:59.639 other crime writers. Illustrated throughout with authentic and haunting prison 67 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:02.960 photo graphs of each of the condemned men, the crimes 68 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:06.280 and punishments of a vanished era are brought into a 69 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:09.800 sharp and realistic light. The book that we're featuring the 70 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:14.560 seating is Fulsom's ninety three, The Life and Crimes of 71 00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:19.040 Fulsome Prisms Executed Men, with my special guest journalist and 72 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:22.879 author April More. Welcome to the program and thank you 73 00:04:22.920 --> 00:04:26.959 for agreeing to this interview. April More, thank you for 74 00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:27.439 having me. 75 00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:29.279 Thank you very much. 76 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:34.560 Fascinating book and it takes us of myself and the 77 00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:39.680 reader back in time to turn of the century, so 78 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:45.319 not the former one, the one before that. So for 79 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:52.199 this book, it's incredible how you came to write this book. 80 00:04:52.279 --> 00:04:56.759 So let's go back and talk about your great great 81 00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:59.879 aunt Betty and who she was and her husband Tom, 82 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:05.199 before we talk about the faithful day that you at 83 00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:08.439 your great great aunt Betty's. 84 00:05:10.839 --> 00:05:13.120 Came to begin your. 85 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:16.720 Journey into this incredible story of Folsom's ninety three. So 86 00:05:16.759 --> 00:05:18.680 first tell us about your great great aunt Betty and 87 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:21.040 her husband Tom. 88 00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:27.480 Well, my aunt Betty was certainly a character. She lived 89 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:30.240 in la where most of my mother's side of the 90 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:35.279 family lived, and she was married to Tom, who was 91 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:38.759 about thirty years older than her, and she met him 92 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:42.920 when she was a teenager. And he was a bookie, 93 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:46.439 and he also owned some gambling clubs, and I know 94 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:50.600 he'd had some dealings in Vegas with some hotels and such. 95 00:05:51.319 --> 00:05:57.240 And at some point in the nineteen forties, Tom went 96 00:05:57.279 --> 00:06:00.639 to fulsome to collect from an inmate who owned him, 97 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:06.319 and he left with a box of mugshots of all 98 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:11.399 ninety three men who were executed at Fulsom. Also in 99 00:06:11.439 --> 00:06:15.000 the box was a forty page text chronicling the history 100 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:18.920 of Fulsom from oh the eighteen fifties when it was 101 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:24.199 first discussed, and then up until nineteen forty three. So 102 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:27.439 Tom didn't really know what to do with these, I mean, 103 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:30.160 according to Betty, he really he didn't know what to 104 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:32.439 do with them, and he put them in a box, 105 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:35.839 stuck them in a closet and forgot about them, basically, 106 00:06:36.519 --> 00:06:40.959 and he'd passed away in nineteen seventy nine, and Betty 107 00:06:41.079 --> 00:06:44.160 found them, of course, and she didn't really know what 108 00:06:44.199 --> 00:06:45.560 to do with them either, but she kept them. She 109 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:49.480 hung on to them, and so, oh gosh, mid eighties, 110 00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:53.480 late eighties, when I was probably ten or twelve, she 111 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:56.519 would bring them out, and my sister and I would 112 00:06:56.560 --> 00:06:59.839 thumb through them and make up stories about them. And 113 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:03.439 you know, they were creepy, they were funny. They had 114 00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:09.279 just looks on some of their faces were scary and funny. 115 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:12.759 And at the time I really had no idea where 116 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:15.959 folsome was or what it was about. But all we 117 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:19.959 knew was that we had these creepy photos that my 118 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:20.480 aunt had. 119 00:07:22.600 --> 00:07:25.800 Okay, so you're you're a young girl when you become 120 00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:29.079 fascinated with this, and you said in your book Very Interesting, 121 00:07:29.120 --> 00:07:32.319 that your great aunt was a very very flamboyant person 122 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:39.680 very very striking and very interesting personality. And then one 123 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:41.680 day she came and brought out the box and you 124 00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:44.360 took a look at it. So tell us how you 125 00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:50.079 come to be a writer, and and then how this 126 00:07:50.199 --> 00:07:54.480 project come to fruition for you in terms of the 127 00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:57.879 genesis of this whole sort turning into a book and 128 00:07:58.040 --> 00:07:59.959 you turning into an all. 129 00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:01.759 Tell us a little bit about that. 130 00:08:02.680 --> 00:08:06.600 Well, I hadn't really thought about the photos for years, 131 00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:12.000 and I had been writing off and on short stories, articles, 132 00:08:12.199 --> 00:08:16.720 and had written a novel, and so I was playing 133 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:20.879 around writing and I've always enjoyed it. My father was 134 00:08:21.399 --> 00:08:25.240 a writer, and so it was kind of just something 135 00:08:25.839 --> 00:08:28.720 I did and I enjoyed it. But I had I 136 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:31.519 didn't really have anything that I was working on at 137 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:35.240 the time. So in two thousand and eight, I was 138 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:38.919 going through some of my father's, my late father's writings, 139 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:43.399 and I came across a copy of the text and 140 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:46.240 because he was going to possibly write about it and 141 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:49.559 he didn't, he wasn't able to do that, and so 142 00:08:51.080 --> 00:08:53.480 I thought, oh God, I haven't thought of these photos. 143 00:08:53.480 --> 00:08:56.639 I haven't seen these photos. I wonder if anyone has 144 00:08:56.679 --> 00:08:59.480 some still, because my aunt had passed away by that time. 145 00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:05.000 So I called my grandfather and I asked him, said, hey, 146 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:07.159 you know, how about those fulsome mug shots? He still 147 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:09.799 got those somewhere, And of course he was like, oh, 148 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:14.519 I was so close to throwing these out. Oh I'm 149 00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:19.279 so glad you didn't. He said, well, you know, I 150 00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:21.720 don't know what you want with these these ugly mugs, 151 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:25.320 but they're yours. So he sent them to me along 152 00:09:25.399 --> 00:09:29.279 with the original text that they came with. And I 153 00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:32.759 had really no idea what I was going to find. 154 00:09:32.919 --> 00:09:39.279 I had no agenda, no expectations. I just was interested 155 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:42.720 in checking them out because really at the time, we 156 00:09:42.759 --> 00:09:45.039 didn't have Google and when I was a kid, and 157 00:09:46.879 --> 00:09:48.879 I had no idea what I was what I would find. 158 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:52.960 So all of the photographs have the man's name, when 159 00:09:53.000 --> 00:09:56.200 he was received at the prison, his date of execution, 160 00:09:56.840 --> 00:09:58.799 so I had a lot of information to go on 161 00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:02.120 and so I plugged it. One of the guys, I 162 00:10:02.159 --> 00:10:05.039 plugged his name into Google and ended up coming back 163 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:10.200 with many newspaper articles, some Google books that have in 164 00:10:10.240 --> 00:10:14.120 his case mentioned. So it was kind of exciting. I 165 00:10:14.120 --> 00:10:17.320 was like, oh, this is kind of neat, And just 166 00:10:17.679 --> 00:10:20.720 the more I searched, the more I found, and I 167 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:23.879 just went through one by one and got as much 168 00:10:23.919 --> 00:10:24.480 as I could. 169 00:10:27.399 --> 00:10:28.320 Yes, fascinating. 170 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:34.960 Now for this book, you have you outline in your book, 171 00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:40.720 one of the very first stories is talking about the 172 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:44.519 gang Wars in eighteen ninety two in downtown Sacramento, with 173 00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:48.840 the bing Hongkong and the Chi Hongkong societies and the 174 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:54.000 murder of a merchant named Lee Gong. But you also 175 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:59.200 weave throughout this book, of course, the history, the fascinating 176 00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:05.399 history that was eighteen ninety five and previous to nineteen 177 00:11:05.519 --> 00:11:08.720 hundred and then shortly after and this story goes to 178 00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:13.120 nineteen thirty seven. So tell us about the situation for 179 00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:17.919 Asians in California, their conditions and how are they legally 180 00:11:17.960 --> 00:11:20.679 regarded and why at that time. So tell us a 181 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:23.120 little give us a little bit of the history that's 182 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:27.679 included before we talk about the particular case of the 183 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:28.639 murder of Lie Gong. 184 00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:34.399 Sure, yeah, certainly. You know, with the gold rush, it 185 00:11:34.440 --> 00:11:37.559 brought in people from all over and a lot of 186 00:11:37.559 --> 00:11:44.759 Asians came to strike it rich. And I don't think 187 00:11:44.840 --> 00:11:49.559 California or anybody really was ready for that. And there 188 00:11:49.639 --> 00:11:54.320 was a lot of anti Chinese, anti Asian sentiment, and 189 00:11:55.000 --> 00:11:56.879 they were a lot of them were used at force labor, 190 00:11:57.000 --> 00:12:01.360 and so many came through Angel Island, which is basically 191 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:07.000 an island outside California where immigrants were channeled through and 192 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:10.639 many spent it was more like a prison before they 193 00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:15.320 were allowed to come into California. So it was it 194 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:21.120 was incredibly harsh to be to be an immigrant in 195 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:24.399 California at that time. There was so much anti Asian 196 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:28.039 sentiment as far as taking jobs, and when you have 197 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:34.039 money and gold involved, there's competition, and it was it 198 00:12:34.080 --> 00:12:37.120 wasn't a good time. I don't think a very good 199 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:39.759 time for immigrants in California. 200 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:45.600 Now, this store merchant was Lee Gong, and apparently at 201 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:48.720 that time, with the two societies, of course you have 202 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:51.519 to have allegiance to one of the societies. So there 203 00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:55.200 was talk that this was maybe the reason for the murder. 204 00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:58.759 But tell us about the murder itself. And his wife's 205 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:02.039 name was ah Wah. I hope I didn't mispronounce that, 206 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:04.720 but that's her name, and he's forty five years old 207 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:05.120 at that time. 208 00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:06.600 So tell us about the situation. 209 00:13:06.919 --> 00:13:09.720 As you outline in the book about Lie Gong and 210 00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:12.480 his wife is a couple daughters. So tell us about 211 00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:17.399 the circumstances around before and during this murder. 212 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:23.039 So, Lie Gong was a cigar store owner and his 213 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:27.919 apartment was attached above from what I understand, was above 214 00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:32.799 the store. And two men came into this store and 215 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:38.840 all Wong ah Wah was in the also. She was 216 00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:42.720 behind the counter and her husband was in an adjacent room, 217 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:45.879 but there was a window into the other room where 218 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:50.120 he was sitting, and two men came in and asked 219 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:53.519 for cigars, and according to the wife, she turned her 220 00:13:53.559 --> 00:13:58.320 back to retrieve a cigar, and one of the men 221 00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:01.559 pointed a gun through the window and shot her husband 222 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:09.039 and then fled the store. And the family's cook apparently 223 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:12.840 came out and he had a gun and he shot 224 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:16.399 his gun in the air, and he couldn't find the assailants. 225 00:14:17.240 --> 00:14:20.240 But the wife said that one of the men had 226 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:24.919 a scar down the side of his face. So police 227 00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:29.960 were searching for a man with a scar, and they 228 00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:36.639 found a man. He was she Jen Hayne was in 229 00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:40.559 in someone's house smoking opium, and he had he had 230 00:14:40.600 --> 00:14:45.440 just arrived in Sacramento just a day earlier, I believe, 231 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:52.440 And but according to witness testimony, Hain had been in 232 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:57.840 this house all day long, all evening and hadn't left. 233 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:02.759 So there was a so much conflicting testimony as to 234 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:07.799 whether this man was there or was not there and 235 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:16.240 what happened. This gun shot had sparked another riot among 236 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:19.559 the two Chinese gangs. So there was a lot of 237 00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:24.639 gunfire and a lot of just chaos going on, and 238 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:29.639 police rounded up Hayin and another man and brought them 239 00:15:29.679 --> 00:15:31.799 to the jail, and a lot of people were saying, 240 00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:33.639 that's not the right man, that's not the right man. 241 00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:37.519 And over the course of I think it was about 242 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:40.559 a year a year and a half before the case, 243 00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:43.360 they didn't want to trial, and by that time the 244 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:46.840 cook he had he was nowhere to be found anymore. 245 00:15:47.399 --> 00:15:51.840 And I believed shortly after the child, the wife also 246 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:56.679 left and it was rumored that she ran away with 247 00:15:56.759 --> 00:16:01.559 the cook and that the cook her husband. So that 248 00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:08.919 was the That was a sentiment among most of the 249 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:13.519 Chinese during that time regarding the case. 250 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:18.679 What you includes, sorry, go ahead, Oh. 251 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:20.360 No, I'm just saying there there was no other physical 252 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:24.039 evidence to link Chinhne to the crime, and a lot 253 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:29.559 of inconsistent testimony, and frankly, I don't know that he 254 00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:30.919 really received a fair trial. 255 00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:35.799 There was a witness Nam yes so Jim that led 256 00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:43.200 police initially to Hayne, and also there was controversy eventually 257 00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:47.240 with ah Wab with the eyewitness testimony. Wasn't there there 258 00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:51.279 was supposed to be you know, irrefutable evidence, because he'd 259 00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:53.360 have this major scar on the side of his head. 260 00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:57.200 So there was, like you said, there's many people saying 261 00:16:57.200 --> 00:16:59.639 that they got the wrong man. But what was his 262 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:04.039 wife testimony in terms of who had actually killed her husband? 263 00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:06.880 She you know, she didn't know his name, she didn't 264 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:09.759 know who he was. That she saw this scar and 265 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:13.920 it could have been someone we really don't know. Uh, 266 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:18.680 it was really based on her testimony. So and yet 267 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:21.200 there was no other But there are witnesses that said 268 00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:23.880 he was never he was never even near the cigar shop. 269 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:26.799 He was never even in the cigar shop. Even the 270 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:31.240 man he was convicted with, you know, he said he 271 00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:33.079 wasn't eve there he had. The man that he was 272 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:35.160 convicted with had been shot in the leg from a 273 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:37.880 previous riot and was in bed at the time. So 274 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:41.200 to me, it feels like there's there was a lot 275 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:44.839 of unanswered questions, and there's a lot of going through 276 00:17:44.839 --> 00:17:47.240 the trial transcripts, there was a lot of questions that 277 00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:53.400 the prosecution never addressed, which I found interesting and and 278 00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:59.440 just so much to me, a lot of doubt when 279 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:06.039 you have so many witnesses collaborating with Hain and you 280 00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:09.880 know he basically had an alibi. But and it could 281 00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:11.720 have been that she had seen this man the day 282 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:14.599 before or the day of and saw the scar and 283 00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:19.799 and considered him the perfect scapegoat. 284 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:21.200 Mm hmm. 285 00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:25.319 It was interesting too that you include in your book 286 00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:29.440 that this is how the newspapers reported. Quote one of 287 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:33.440 the daughters exhibited as much feeling and agony as any 288 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:35.680 white child under the circumstances. 289 00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:41.759 Kind of explained, Yeah, and that and that's how reporters did, 290 00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:44.480 and they how they treated minorities, and the language they 291 00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:50.160 use is just, you know, heinous, It was as awful. 292 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:53.759 So there really a lot of minorities, especially the Chinese, 293 00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:57.920 you know, once they were arrested for something, they really 294 00:18:58.519 --> 00:19:03.400 they couldn't win. They when they when you have the 295 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:07.480 media and with anything even today, and you have the 296 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:15.039 media projecting you as as this. You know, they called 297 00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:18.559 Indians half breeds and these horrible names. You really you 298 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:19.960 don't stand a chance. 299 00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:21.359 Right right. 300 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:26.799 What's interesting too is that the very first execution in 301 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:32.599 fulsome prison is also comes with it controversy of somebody 302 00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:34.039 being executed wrongfully. 303 00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:35.279 Again. 304 00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:39.319 I just thought that that was very ironic, mm hmm. 305 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:43.279 Very first, and you already got controversy right away with 306 00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:46.680 with the execution, right, you know. 307 00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:50.200 And I'm sure the information. I tried to find as 308 00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:53.880 much information as I could to present it. But in 309 00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:57.519 my eyes, I am not so sure that yeah, that 310 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:06.039 he did it. So just based on the trial transcripts, 311 00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:07.440 certainly reasonable. 312 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:09.039 Doubt, right, certainly. 313 00:20:09.640 --> 00:20:14.440 Now you include in your book to the actual event itself, 314 00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:17.319 the death by hanging. So tell us a little bit 315 00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:21.519 about the ritual itself that started in eighteen ninety five 316 00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:24.119 with their first execution. Tell us a little bit about 317 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:27.640 what actually happens. What did actually happen. 318 00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:35.640 When they prepare for a hanging. Yes, well it's typically done, 319 00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:39.960 and they start preparing weeks weeks ahead as far as 320 00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:43.839 getting a rope, and that was typically made of hemp. 321 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:46.519 And hello, it is Ryan. 322 00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:48.680 And we could all use an extra bright spot in 323 00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:50.880 our day, couldn't we, just to make up for things 324 00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:53.799 like sitting in traffic, doing the dishes, counting or steps, 325 00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:56.160 you know, all the mundane stuff. That is why I'm 326 00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:59.200 such a big fan of Chumpa Casino. 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That's Chumbuck Casino dot com. 331 00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:14.839 They'll we necessary dalyoid where every boy lost in terms 332 00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:15.759 conditions eighting plus. 333 00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:19.160 Stretching it and soaking it in water and stretching it. 334 00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:25.319 And I don't know all the mathematical formulas involved, but 335 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:29.880 they had to know the man's weight and height, and 336 00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:33.559 so much of that went into how long the rope 337 00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:38.759 was cut, how many and how high it had to 338 00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:43.720 be strung up. There is certainly a science to it. 339 00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:48.880 So once the rope is prepared, the men who are 340 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:51.920 on death row at Folshoom at least they were in 341 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:55.279 condemned condemned row, which I also called the back alley, 342 00:21:56.119 --> 00:21:59.839 and you would start out there are two tiers of 343 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:07.319 cells and of these window lists, they're these rooms that 344 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:12.400 had no windows. The doors were solid, and they would 345 00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:16.920 start at the bottom and work their way as executions 346 00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:18.519 took place, they would work their way to the next 347 00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:20.480 cell and the next cell until they're at the top 348 00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:30.359 and closest to the gallows. And so when you knew 349 00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:32.960 when your neighbor was executed, and you would be moving 350 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:36.200 to the next cell, and you're beginning closer and closer. 351 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:41.680 Well, the next important story that you included this is 352 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:46.559 about Ivan Kovalev. In eighteen ninety three, he and nine 353 00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:53.359 other men had escaped Siberia's Saghalian prison and made their 354 00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:54.720 way to San Francisco. 355 00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:59.759 And when they came, they of course wanted up. 356 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:05.200 Of course they lied about who they were apparently, and 357 00:23:05.960 --> 00:23:08.559 and so tell us a little bit about how they 358 00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:11.759 came to not how they came to San Francisco, but 359 00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:15.720 what happened once they did get to San Francisco, involving 360 00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:19.799 the media and of course the authorities and anthon. 361 00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:21.680 This is certainly a case where the media worked in 362 00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:25.960 their favor. These are men who claim to be political 363 00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:29.480 prisoners in Russia. And uh, there had been an author 364 00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:34.759 who had visited the prison like a year earlier and 365 00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:37.519 had reported on all these horrible abuses at this prison 366 00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:40.759 and the conditions and and so when the US got 367 00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:43.359 wind of this, and then they hear these these ten 368 00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:47.480 poor prisoners you know, out at sea for have her 369 00:23:47.559 --> 00:23:50.960 many days arrived in San Francisco, they there was a 370 00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:54.720 lot of you know, they felt sorry for them and felt, 371 00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:56.680 you know, we need to give them asylum and give 372 00:23:56.720 --> 00:24:01.200 them a home, and even Russia. I was saying, no, 373 00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:04.960 you know, you guys, just send these guys back. The 374 00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:08.880 US said, you know, well, well we'll take care of 375 00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:12.880 this well, and and they did. And then you know, 376 00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:15.920 they they they let these men free, go free. They 377 00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:20.240 they I saw a reference that they they put them 378 00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:22.799 in on display at a five and die museum and 379 00:24:24.680 --> 00:24:28.799 and then they pretty much then disappeared into society. However, 380 00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:33.200 many of them within the next year were back in prison, 381 00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:36.960 and ivan Kovalev was probably the worst of the worst. 382 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:43.200 Uh And he and a couple of other Russians murdered 383 00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:49.640 a couple, very brutally murdered a couple who an elderly 384 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:53.319 couple who owned a store and their their house. Their 385 00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:54.640 apartment was above the store. 386 00:24:57.759 --> 00:25:01.799 Now, by this time, his of favor with the media 387 00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:05.480 was probably over. So tell us how the media now 388 00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:10.319 treated ivan Kovalev, given now that he was up for 389 00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:12.559 murder and these other some of the other prisoners, Like 390 00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:14.279 you say, within a couple of years, a year or two, 391 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:17.319 a lot of them were back in folsome. 392 00:25:17.960 --> 00:25:20.880 Oh yeah, absolutely, I mean the sentiment towards them. And 393 00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:26.559 you know, I'm one eight, and they and they, and 394 00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:28.079 of course they all came out and said, oh, how 395 00:25:28.119 --> 00:25:30.480 could you guys do this? How could how could the 396 00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:34.480 US let these criminals into the country. So it uh 397 00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:39.640 suddenly nobody wanted to have anything to do with letting 398 00:25:39.720 --> 00:25:44.319 them in. And we're quite angry. And I mean it 399 00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:49.240 was such a vicious, horrible crime too that I think 400 00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:55.559 they obviously regretted their decision, but nothing they could do 401 00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:56.519