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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Master of the NZ podcast, the ultimate

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destination for anyone passionate about the electrical trade. Whether you're

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a season electrician, an eager apprentice, or just someone who

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wants to dive deep into the world of electrical work,

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You've come to the right place.

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Speaker 2: Join your host, Paul.

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Speaker 1: Abernaby, a true authority in the industry with over thirty

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eight years of trade experience, as he electrifies your mind

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within depth discussions, expertips, and valuable ensights.

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Speaker 2: That will keep you ahead of the curve.

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Speaker 1: Each episode, Paul will illuminate the complexities of the trade,

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decode the National Electrical Code, and share the latest industry trends,

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all while empowering you to take your electrical career to

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the next level. So gar up, plug in, and get

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ready to supercharge your knowledge because with the Master of

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the NZ podcast, the power is in your hands. Now

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get ready. Here is your host, Paul Abernaby. What up, everybody?

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Speaker 3: Welcome to another episode of Master the NEEC podcast, where

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I Paul Aberneth. They talk about the National Electric Code,

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electrical trade in general, even contracting tips tricks, as well

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as how to deal with disgruntle customers and that's the

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topic of today's podcast, so one of the podcast requests

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that came in through Paul Abernathy dot com. Remember, you

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can submit your requests for upcoming shows, whether it's something

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on the NEC, whether it's something on business, whether it's

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something on hiring and firing.

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Speaker 2: All those type of things. I'm an open book.

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Speaker 3: If you want to ask me about taxes, how I

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do my taxes as a Chapters corporation. Maybe you're a

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sole proprietor. I've been there. I've owned electrical contracting businesses

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for many years. I'm a licensed master electrician in multiple states,

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and I've been there.

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Speaker 2: I've had successes, I've had failures.

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Speaker 3: I've been podcasting since early two thousands, way before this

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thing called podcasts, or way before social media was even

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a thing. We were uploading stuff to AOL. So I've

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probably been there or done that.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: We also have over one thousand episodes of podcasts on

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all different type of topics, ranging all the way back

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and into the early two thousands.

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Speaker 2: They're available.

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Speaker 3: You can listen to a lot of our stuff that

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is still relevant today by getting our free mobile app.

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Speaker 2: It's free, doesn't cost you anything.

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Speaker 3: Just go to fasttracksystem dot com or you can go

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to any c c chat dot com.

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Speaker 2: Did you know that? Did you know that?

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Speaker 3: That's a Did you know that you can go to

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anyc chat dot com and also download our mobile app

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there as well. Yes you can, and that's a free

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service from Wis as well. And I talk about that

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only because I have done podcasts about grassroots marketing and

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I explain how easy it is to get a free

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Wix account. Every person, whether you're doing side hustle or

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your own the company or whatever, you need to have

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at least a one page website, and Wix makes it

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so easy. I don't get paid for Wicks, but they

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do sponsor and take care of all of the costs

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on dealing with our Paul Abernathy dot com, but also

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the nec chat as well, which is a way to

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get our mobile app simply quickly if you don't want

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to go to our website and get it. Okay, enough

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of that, so today we're talking about on today's episode

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is we're going to talk about dealing with disgruntle customers.

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And this is going to be really good for all

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of you owners out there that have the people that

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work for you.

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Speaker 2: The electricians. You should make them listen to this episode.

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Speaker 3: Play it at the at lunch, play it at your

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morning meeting, because this is going to be important for

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them to listen to. Okay, and if that doesn't get it,

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think about bringing us out to your job site or

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bring us out to your company wherever you are in

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the country.

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Speaker 2: We're more than happy to come out there.

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Speaker 3: It's a nominal fee to get us there, but we

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will more than happy to come out there and do

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a lesson, do a training, maybe do an hour of

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some code for you. But then we can also do

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an hour on leadership. And then I can also get

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in how to train your employees to deal with customers,

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how to take a first impression that may be not

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so spellar and fix that while they're still there and

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recover that bad experience for the customer. But today we're

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gonna talk about what the hell do we do when

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we've got to disgruntle unhappy customer.

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Speaker 2: Some people are just unhappy.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I've got followers over on YouTube and all my

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other channels that are just unhappy.

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Speaker 2: They live in this world of negativity.

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Speaker 3: And so you're gonna get that with a customer from

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time to time, and you're gonna go out to do work,

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and you got to understand how to overcome it, how

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to deal with it, how to process it, and leave

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it there, leave it at the job site, leave it

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at the service call, don't bring it home with you.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So I only set the scene here.

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Speaker 3: What we'll we talking about in day's episode, we're gonna

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we're gonna understand that, we're gonna acknowledge that no matter

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how guild you are, how professional you are, you could

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be the most the greatest electrician in the world. Okay,

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you could be so good at installing that there is

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no troubleshooting tasks that you cannot overcome. You're just God's

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gift to the electrical industry. You're still going to have

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potential conflicts, disagreements with clients. It's inevitable, whether you're on

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a project and you're dealing with the GC, whether you're

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dealing with a customer on a service call. Hell, it

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might be even dealing with other trades that are on

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the job site. And you need to understand how to

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overcome all of that. So we're gonna be talking about

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that a little bit today. We're going to emphasize the

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importance in this episode of handling these situations in a

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professional manner to not just protect your reputation, but to

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also turn that frown upside down and it may just

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grow your business.

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Speaker 2: Now, we've all heard the old saying word of mouth.

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Speaker 3: Is the best form of advertising because if somebody, if

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they like what you do, they tell somebody they like it,

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and then they hire you and you they like it

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and it breeds right. But I can promise you when

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you have somebody that's pissed off, ticked off, unhappy, they

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sometimes will go out of their way to spread it

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to other people, and that can be a cancer upon

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your business, especially if you're trying to target a local market,

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because people tend to listen to social media is for example,

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and all this type of things. Nobody does the background

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checks anymore. Nobody looks to see history on somebody.

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Speaker 2: This.

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Speaker 3: They just believe what somebody tells them. Oh, I did

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not like Jay's Electrical. Really would you.

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Speaker 2: Like about them? I just didn't like it. It was arrogant,

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whatever didn't the price was overpriced. I just didn't like them.

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Speaker 3: Well, Jay's Electrical may have done a great job, but

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sometimes you have these people and there's something that they

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did during that.

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Speaker 2: Interaction that caused a problem.

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Speaker 3: Now, somebody might not like a price, and that's one thing,

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but there are ways that you can explain why your

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price is what it is, and if you understand how

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to deliver these things.

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Speaker 2: We call these soft skills.

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Speaker 3: By the way, everybody in business that wants to be

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successful needs to understand soft skills. It's so critically important

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to understand how to interact with somebody. It does doesn't mean

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they're always right, it doesn't mean you're accepting their arms right,

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but you understand how to navigate around that and say, well,

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you know, we may agree to disagree, but you know

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your your feelings, your position is valid, and I'm going

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to work with that and we're going to.

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Speaker 2: Get through this. But I want to leave you with

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a good experience.

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Speaker 3: So we're going to talk about that type of thing,

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because again, word of mouth can be great. And I

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talk about this in my marketing podcast that I just

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recently did. I think it's episode seventeen in the Master

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of the NEC podcast where I talk about guerrilla marketing,

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and one of the key things is that you know

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you can have a very bad first impression, but you

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can overcome it before you leave that project and things

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like that, and so there's a way to recover it

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and grow your business. Right, So again that's the key

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is to make sure we leave on firm ground that

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we don't leave with them being able to spread. Now, again,

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some people just wallow and evil and it is what

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it is. You can't fix evil. You can just try

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to mitigate it. But at the end of the day,

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we do have some tools we can follow. So remember,

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why are we doing this Because a satisfied customers are

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your best marketers. But even that dissatisfies customers can be

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loyal advocates. Maybe it's only the price, but they say

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you do good work. Okay, well I'm not cheap, but

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I do good work. So they may come across as

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a negative, but they do tell you that they do

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good work. So again, there's different ways we can approach it.

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All right, So well let's talk about it. Understanding the

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root of the issue.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's the.

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Speaker 3: That's the first thing, root of the issue. Understanding the

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root Okay, Okay, this is really important for people to

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listen to this and that is the whole function is listening.

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Speaker 2: Now, like I said, I spend a lot of time talking.

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Speaker 3: I do a lot of podcasts, I spend a lot

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of time.

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Speaker 2: Interacting with people and teaching and all.

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Speaker 3: But when it comes to a situation where you're on

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a project and you have somebody that's unhappy, they got

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something they want to say and they're trying to get

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it off their chest.

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Speaker 2: So one of the important things that you can.

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Speaker 3: Do is before you immediately And I try to tell

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this to everybody, whether electricians, people that work and have

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people that they report to, whatever. If somebody has this

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urge to talk, and whether it's good or bad, then

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you need to learn a skill called listening. And listening

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is allowing that customer to voice their concerns with without

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interrupting them.

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Speaker 2: And this is, dude, this is the hardest.

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Speaker 3: One of the hardest things that I struggle with is

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because sometimes you can be so passionate about something that

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when you hear them saying it, you and I do

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this and I have to catch myself and practice what

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I preach. I say, okay, stop, stop, because the tendency

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is to finish their sentences. The tendency is to to

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maybe engage with them the moment they say something you

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disagree with. So I'm gonna give you a tip of

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how to do this, how to do how how you

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should do this? Okay, and it forces you to listen,

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all right. So I always used to tell everybody have

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a notepad with you, and you know a little.

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Speaker 2: I used to we sell these journals on our website.

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Speaker 3: Okay, inspector journals, but they don't really have to be

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inspector journals. They call code nerd journals. I encourage you

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to have some thing like that with every lead person

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or everybody that interacts with a customer, so that they

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can pull it out when a customer has something they

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concerned about and listen to them and let them fully

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say it until they finished and they got nothing else

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to say. Let them say it. So allow the customer

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to voice their concern fully and kind of kind of

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reject the urge to interrupt them.

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Speaker 2: Let them say it.

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Speaker 3: The next thing you want to do is take notes

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to show them that what they've got to say is

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extremely important. So anything they got to say that concerns them, say, okay,

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hold on, let me let me get my notepad out,

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because I want to make sure that I address your

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concerns Okay, First of all, you're gonna diffuse them. They're

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gonna they're gonna be like what I thought you were

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just gonna listen. No, no, no, no, no, sir. I

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teach people, I say no, you get your notebook out

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and you go. I want to write these down because

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obviously they concern you, and I want to I want

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to make sure that I can address these, So I

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write this down right, Okay, So take notes to show

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that you're in show that you're taking whatever they got

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to say very seriously. Also, it allows you to make

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sure to highlight the important parts that you want to

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retort or that you want to say something back about.

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And then it gives you time to think about how

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you're going to constructively respond to these things without being

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vial flip it in other words, so eager to respond back.

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Speaker 2: And again it's a temptation.

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Speaker 3: We're all very defensive about our work, our company. We

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all get defensive about something, and I get it.

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Speaker 2: But when I'm.

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Speaker 3: Training employees, I'm training people that interact with customers, I

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want to let them talk until they've they've exhausted it. Okay,

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they got nothing else to say. Now, I'm not going

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to say something smart like are you done that?

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Speaker 2: No, I'm going to look at them and and basically

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it's ammunication, one on one thing.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to look at them, make eye contact with them.

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Anything they say that that that that I feel I'm

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going to have to respond to I instead of immediately

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saying something, I open, I look my notebook, and I

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look down and I'll start making a note respond to

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issue of whatever.

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Speaker 2: What did that do?

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Speaker 3: First of all, that took me away from that impulse

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to respond, And you'll get better at it where you

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may not have to do the notes, but the note

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process allows you to separate yourself from it and make

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a note and say, first issue is price, second issue

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is h whatever? Okay, just paraphrase it enough so that

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you after you're done, you can address these issues. Now,

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in that process, you want to make sure that you

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ask clarifying questions, folks. So it's so important that that

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when they're talking to you, they might be all over

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the spectrum, but you want to ask and find out

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exactly what they're unhappy about so that you can get

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rid of all the fluff and you can get down

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to what the discussion is about.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: So for example, Uh, listen, actively, allow the customer to

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voice their concerns without fully interrupting them, take notes where necessary,

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to take the matter seriously, ask clarifying questions, and you know,

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understand exactly what the customer is actually unhappy with. Whether

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it's you're pricing, is it the quality? Is it the

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time that you spent on the project? Is it your appearance?

281
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Is it? What is it that put them in this

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this feeling that they had to tell you? Okay, And

283
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the other part that I'm gonna tell you is it's

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this is a thick skin, thin skin thing and everybody

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has it.

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Speaker 2: They can say they don't.

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Speaker 3: Salespeople get better at it, but it is basically avoid

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jumping to conclusions or becoming very defensive.

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Speaker 2: And hey, I'm guilty. I am guilty of it. I

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get it. I'm like human.

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Speaker 3: I mean everybody else is you hear somebody's upset about

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something into pricing and you feel like you're worth every

293
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dime that you charge. But they start in on pricing

294
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and you so quickly want to jump into it and

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be combative to I guess to support your pricing structure,

296
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for example, rather than listening to it at the end

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and then calmly, calmly explain to the customer why you're

298
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pricing is what it is, and say, look, you know

299
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the reason is, I have overhead.

300
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Speaker 2: I have insurance that I have to pay.

301
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Speaker 3: I have employees that have to pay, as you know, taxes,

302
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I have to match their taxes. I have licenses I

303
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have to pay. I have my employees licenses I have

304
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to pay. And I have overheads. I have burdens that

305
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I have to worry about. I have gas, I have

306
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insurance on the vehicles, I have tool costs. And then

307
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you kind of spin it back to and say, and

308
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that's how I deal with the pricing thing. I go, look,

309
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I've tried to do my best to keep my prices

310
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where I can make a living.

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Speaker 2: You're getting a fair price.

312
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Speaker 3: And I'm able to pay for my employees or what

313
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I'm doing and my marketing costs and things like that.

314
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So remain calm and kind of make it as if

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you're showing them why okay, Even if the customer is

316
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upset or confrontational, you could always explain things from your

317
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perspective of why you did it.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 3: You can't make them understand, but you can say things

320
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like I understand why you're frustrated, or thank you for

321
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bringing this to my attention, or I agree that this

322
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may appear to be something that is concerning, but let

323
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me explain that type of thing, and then it's your turn.

324
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Now they're not going to practice the same restraint guarantee you.

325
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Speaker 2: Okay.

326
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Speaker 3: They're going to probably jump right back on you with

327
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their defensive or whatever, because now they have to support

328
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why they told you your pricing was so high or whatnot,

329
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or why they think you're overpriced on something. But they

330
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don't know your business, and you have to understand that

331
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that that's just their frustration.

332
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Speaker 2: Okay.

333
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Speaker 3: So one of the things that you want to avoid

334
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doing is taking any criticism personally.

335
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Speaker 2: Okay, focus on how do I leave this?

336
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Speaker 3: If I'm with the customer for two hours or an hour,

337
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your constant focus from the beginning is how do I

338
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take this interaction and make sure that when it's over

339
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that it's a positive interaction for everybody involved, even if

340
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it starts out being very critical or problematic or somewhere

341
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down the line. Let me give you example. So maybe

342
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you're going to a project. You're electrician. They call you

343
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out and you're troubleshooting something a circuit's not working, and

344
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you're just troubleshooting it.

345
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Speaker 2: You know, you're electrician. You're not a magician.

346
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Speaker 3: You're electrician, so you're you know, everybody's skills, the troubleshooting

347
00:18:02,839 --> 00:18:06,640
is different. So you're working on it, you're working on it,

348
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you're working on it, working, you're trying to to understand

349
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what's going on. And then they think that you're taking

350
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too much time. And so they come to you and say,

351
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I think you're just padding the bill. I think you

352
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can have found the issue. And you go, and that's

353
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when you take your time. You let them speak and

354
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you go, I understand your your concern, but I'm telling

355
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you that I am a master electrician.

356
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Speaker 2: I I'm trying to find the problem.

357
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Speaker 3: And some problems are easy and some problems are a

358
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little more complicated. And I'm trying to to work on this,

359
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,039
and I understand your frustration with it, and trust me,

360
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I would like to get this done as quickly as

361
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I can. Okay, And that type of thing, and by

362
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explaining it and not trying to hide it, not trying

363
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,400
to bullshit it, not trying to bluff it. Uh, you

364
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know that type of thing. It can diffuse that situation.

365
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But make sure that you're you're not criticizing them, make

366
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sure you're not talking down to them like you don't

367
00:19:05,079 --> 00:19:08,799
know what I do. You're not an electrician, don't belittle them.

368
00:19:09,079 --> 00:19:11,559
Just basically explain it the same way you would explain

369
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it to your mom as the way I always tell

370
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people it is like Mom, I'm doing my best. I'm

371
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,880
trying to find the issue, and I'm doing everything I

372
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can with my meters and I'm trying to resolve it.

373
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It's if it was easy, or if it was sticking

374
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out to me, I would be done and gone, trust me.

375
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But I'm trying to find it, and I'm going to

376
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find it. I'm gonna keep working on it, and we'll

377
00:19:34,079 --> 00:19:37,960
work together at the end on this resolution. On this Uh,

378
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,680
maybe it took three hours, and maybe at the end

379
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,720
they're like three hours and you're like, Okay, I'm willing

380
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:45,359
to knock it down to two and a half. For

381
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,400
two hours and forty five minutes or whatever, I'm gonna meet you.

382
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,119
Speaker 2: I'm gonna meet you somewhere. But I did. I tried

383
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,039
to find it. I worked it. Okay.

384
00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:56,039
Speaker 3: Every situation is a little different, but that's the approach

385
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,200
that you want to take and some people in contracting

386
00:19:59,279 --> 00:20:02,279
or like, no, my way, I don't care what you say.

387
00:20:02,319 --> 00:20:03,960
You called me here, I'm going to do it. Piss

388
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,400
on you, and I'm telling you that it's not today,

389
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,640
in the modern world that we're in today, that is

390
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,000
not how it's going to win you more business. And

391
00:20:13,039 --> 00:20:15,279
maybe you don't care about more business. Maybe you're just like,

392
00:20:15,319 --> 00:20:17,599
I don't give a shit, I don't care.

393
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:18,440
Speaker 2: It's my jib. I'm doing it.

394
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,559
Speaker 3: I'm doing it my way. I don't care, I don't care. Okay,

395
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,359
well that's the case. Somebody's going to be there next time,

396
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,480
and you're not going to get that repeat business. And

397
00:20:26,519 --> 00:20:28,839
I'm going to tell you something. If you're in business,

398
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,160
you don't have to kiss the customer's ass, but you

399
00:20:32,279 --> 00:20:34,960
just have to be honest with them and understand and

400
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,920
have empathy for the fact that they don't understand what

401
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,559
you do. And so I want to explain to them

402
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,279
why it has taken longer. But I'm not going to

403
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,880
talk down to them, Okay, I'm not going to criticize

404
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,400
them and not going to get personal with them. I'm

405
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,960
not going to take their criticism personal. They don't know

406
00:20:53,079 --> 00:20:56,200
me they don't know how complicated this troubleshooting task is.

407
00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,240
And so that's what I try to explain to the electricians,

408
00:20:59,319 --> 00:21:01,119
you know that go out and work with customers like.

409
00:21:02,079 --> 00:21:04,359
They're not going to like you when it take you

410
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,119
two hours and they think it should have taken an

411
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:07,799
hour because they're paying the bill.

412
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:10,920
Speaker 2: You get it. They're still not going to like it.

413
00:21:11,759 --> 00:21:13,480
But there's a way that you can diffuse it.

414
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:20,160
Speaker 3: Okay, Now, if you acknowledge mistakes, if you made a mistake,

415
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,960
if you've made an error, admit it and assure them

416
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,720
that it'll be corrected. Assure them that, you know, if

417
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,480
there's something in pricing, or bid your bill or bid

418
00:21:30,599 --> 00:21:34,079
or what if something was wrong, don't try to shift it,

419
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,799
you know what. Acknowledge it, own up to it and say,

420
00:21:36,839 --> 00:21:39,200
you know, I apologize, I'm going to take care of

421
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:43,119
this right away. I'm going to you know, we're going

422
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,000
to make sure that this is not going to happen

423
00:21:45,039 --> 00:21:48,039
in the future as long as you acknowledge that it

424
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:48,720
is an issue.

425
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,279
Speaker 2: Because again, they're not always right.

426
00:21:51,559 --> 00:21:55,559
Speaker 3: But in that interaction, I want to walk away with

427
00:21:55,680 --> 00:22:00,240
them not pissed off, me not pissed off, and I

428
00:22:00,839 --> 00:22:02,440
have to deal with that the rest of the day.

429
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,359
It can be done, folks. I know you get some

430
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,279
people that are disgruntled, really bad. But again, there's tones

431
00:22:08,319 --> 00:22:09,920
that can be done and there's a way to eat

432
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,160
take a Maybe they won't hire you back.

433
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:14,160
Speaker 2: But.

434
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,079
Speaker 3: There's a high probability that they won't at least bad

435
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:20,559
mouth you to the next person.

436
00:22:20,599 --> 00:22:23,400
Speaker 2: And that's a win in itself. Okay.

437
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,400
Speaker 3: So again there's a way to not so if you

438
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,279
make a mistake, acknowledge it. It's sure then that it'll

439
00:22:29,279 --> 00:22:31,119
be corrected, especially if it is.

440
00:22:31,079 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 2: An error that needs to be corrected. Okay.

441
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 3: The other thing is I think it is very important

442
00:22:38,079 --> 00:22:42,079
and again it's to bite my pride because I'm here.

443
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,720
I'm not here to you know what I used to

444
00:22:44,759 --> 00:22:46,839
tell people as like, I'm not here to be their friend.

445
00:22:47,279 --> 00:22:49,759
I didn't go to this job for this customer to

446
00:22:49,759 --> 00:22:52,279
be my buddy to crack a beer with and go

447
00:22:52,319 --> 00:22:53,039
out to the pub.

448
00:22:53,319 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 2: Okay, I came here to do a job.

449
00:22:56,079 --> 00:22:57,839
Speaker 3: So if that means I have to do what I

450
00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,799
have to do to make sure that that relationship is

451
00:22:59,799 --> 00:23:01,960
still that way. And when I leave, they're thinking it's

452
00:23:02,039 --> 00:23:05,480
very professional. I'm not their friend. I tell people like

453
00:23:05,519 --> 00:23:06,960
that all the time. I work with a lot of

454
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,440
people on committees. I'm not there to be their friend.

455
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,799
I'm not there to be there go to out to eat.

456
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,359
I don't go out. That's one thing I tell about

457
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,440
on choir with them, and they know that. When I

458
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,440
went to conferences and I went to meeting here, Vince

459
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,440
Delacrosse will tell you. All the people in the code

460
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,039
panels will tell you I am not there to be

461
00:23:25,079 --> 00:23:27,960
anybody's friend. I am not the guy you want to

462
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,279
take out to the to the eat afterwards and go

463
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,960
have a beer or whatever, because I'm just not Now,

464
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,640
there's some people that I have a friendship with personal.

465
00:23:36,279 --> 00:23:38,240
Vince Delacroise, for example, is a guy. He's just a

466
00:23:38,279 --> 00:23:41,759
sweetheart of a guy. You can't not like Vince. But

467
00:23:41,839 --> 00:23:43,519
the other people in the committee and they asked me

468
00:23:43,559 --> 00:23:45,240
to go out the meetings and things like that, and

469
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,400
you know, I don't. I'm not interested. I'm just there

470
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,640
to get my job done. I'm there to us to

471
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,200
work on the code. I'm there because my company pays

472
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,039
me to be there and work on it, and once

473
00:23:56,079 --> 00:23:57,039
that's done, I'm leaving.

474
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 2: Right. I'm not there to be there friends.

475
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 3: So I teach employers to teach that to their staff,

476
00:24:04,279 --> 00:24:12,000
to like, look, be bubbly, smiley, empathetic, understanding problems solving,

477
00:24:12,519 --> 00:24:16,480
don't be confrontational, admit when you're wrong, all these types

478
00:24:16,519 --> 00:24:20,480
of things. That's not ass kissing. That's in keeping the

479
00:24:20,599 --> 00:24:23,519
ensuring that the business is going to be retained within

480
00:24:23,559 --> 00:24:26,079
your company, and that they're going to call you if

481
00:24:26,079 --> 00:24:27,079
they need more work done.

482
00:24:29,519 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 2: Bite your pride, Bite your pride and leave. Smile.

483
00:24:33,559 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 3: You can cuss somebody else. You can cuss somebody out

484
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,319
through smile. You can tear them out through goodness. Just

485
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,440
smile at them and say thank you, appreciate that, or

486
00:24:42,759 --> 00:24:45,119
I work on that, or I'm sorry that I'm sorry

487
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,680
to feel that way. Can I explain, I understand why

488
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,240
you're frustrated, but let me explain what goes into it,

489
00:24:50,279 --> 00:24:53,480
and this is why we're we're at. They don't have

490
00:24:53,559 --> 00:24:57,920
to like it, but you've explained it professionally and you

491
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:58,279
move on.

492
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 2: Okay.

493
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 3: The moment that you tip for tat back with the

494
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,720
customer and they get loud and arguing defensive, it's over.

495
00:25:05,799 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 2: You're already in the recovery mode. Okay, So avoid that. Okay,

496
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,279
Also again like I say, show understanding.

497
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 3: Say I can see how this situation has impacted you,

498
00:25:15,079 --> 00:25:18,279
and I want to make it right. Well, maybe I

499
00:25:18,319 --> 00:25:21,880
cut off fifteen minutes, maybe I don't round up my hours,

500
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:23,920
maybe I do something that, Yeah, I might lose a

501
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:25,920
little bit, but I can see that this is really

502
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,839
stressing them out, and I want to make it right.

503
00:25:30,759 --> 00:25:32,880
I had one incident where you had a customer that

504
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:34,279
just I think they just woke up on the wrong

505
00:25:34,319 --> 00:25:38,039
side of the bed. And I think I was putting

506
00:25:38,079 --> 00:25:39,720
in Alexa devices or whatever.

507
00:25:39,759 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 2: We were smart home.

508
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,839
Speaker 3: We're doing the cost effective smart home thing, and they

509
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,319
just walk up on the wrong side of the bed,

510
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,200
I think it was. And I had already done the

511
00:25:47,279 --> 00:25:50,640
job and they were already bitching about price, and I

512
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,440
didn't have to go into the pricing. Why, but I

513
00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:55,599
get it. I looked at him, I said, I get it.

514
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,440
You know, the prices today is tough. I mean, our

515
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:04,000
prices are based on the overheads, the burdens, the taxes,

516
00:26:04,039 --> 00:26:06,119
everything that we have to pay in order to keep

517
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,480
these trucks rolling or keep me vehicles rolling. I said,

518
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,680
I get it. It sucks. I would hate it, but

519
00:26:11,839 --> 00:26:13,119
it is what it is. What else are they going

520
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,319
to say that? But then what I would do is says,

521
00:26:15,319 --> 00:26:16,759
you know what, let me make it right. Let me

522
00:26:16,839 --> 00:26:19,640
go on and do give you a free since I'm here,

523
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,920
let me give you a free panel inspection. Just look

524
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,119
around and make sure that everything's working good.

525
00:26:26,599 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 2: It's free.

526
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:29,839
Speaker 3: Let me give you an energy audit. Let me look

527
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,759
at your panel, Let me look and see what. Let

528
00:26:31,759 --> 00:26:33,839
me just give you that it's free, doesn't cost you anything.

529
00:26:33,839 --> 00:26:36,400
I'm already here. Let me make this right for you.

530
00:26:36,519 --> 00:26:38,359
Let me give you a little bit extra of my time.

531
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,240
In the end, I'm not I'm really looking for ways

532
00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:43,400
to find other things to leave on the report that

533
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,839
they could possibly get fixed, that could get me back there.

534
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 2: But I'm offering this for free.

535
00:26:47,559 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 3: So you learn ways to do this right, You learn

536
00:26:53,319 --> 00:26:55,200
ways to diffuse things.

537
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 2: Okay.

538
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,319
Speaker 3: Now, I'll also tell you right now, and I tell

539
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,279
this to all of the people that interact with the customers.

540
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,039
I said, look, avoid shifting blame tank responsibility for your

541
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,480
part of the issue, even if the external factors were

542
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,440
involved that cause the problem that's outside of your control.

543
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,640
In other words, your office sells you to do something,

544
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,880
and you do, and you don't want to sit there

545
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,519
and go, I'm sorry the office and those people up

546
00:27:20,519 --> 00:27:21,880
there in the office, they don't get me.

547
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:26,759
Speaker 2: I'm I'm the electrician, but the office don't. Don't.

548
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,279
Speaker 3: I do this all the time when I have to

549
00:27:29,279 --> 00:27:31,799
do something for Encore, I do not shift blame and

550
00:27:31,839 --> 00:27:34,519
blame the people in the office or blame something, even

551
00:27:34,559 --> 00:27:37,519
if it was their fault or somebody's fault, or I

552
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,079
take responsibility for it.

553
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 2: I don't let it. I let it die right there.

554
00:27:41,839 --> 00:27:42,480
You know what I'm saying.

555
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,799
Speaker 3: I don't give the fault in my company that I represent.

556
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,759
And again, every time I walk on a job site,

557
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,000
I represent my company. This is why, for example, when

558
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,039
I'm speaking around the country and if I'm there for

559
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,519
Encore or Prismium, I never go to the bar afterwards,

560
00:27:59,599 --> 00:28:02,319
or I never go to an afterwards with the company

561
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:02,799
logo on.

562
00:28:03,799 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 2: I change or I cover it up.

563
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,319
Speaker 3: I just you know what, I do not want to

564
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:14,920
ever give a bad impression to my company. And I'm

565
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,640
constantly focused on this, and it's just how I am

566
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,279
centrically focused on that.

567
00:28:20,319 --> 00:28:21,799
Speaker 2: I respect them.

568
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,079
Speaker 3: If I work for a company, they pay my paycheck,

569
00:28:25,319 --> 00:28:27,680
they give me money, they pay my insurance. To that

570
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,400
I'm gonna be good stewards of them. I'm never going

571
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,720
to pass the blame onto somebody else, even if it

572
00:28:32,799 --> 00:28:35,319
wasn't my fault. I'm going to own it and I'm

573
00:28:35,319 --> 00:28:37,160
going to see what I can do within my power

574
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,920
to make it right now. Always want to think about this.

575
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,839
When somebody's upset, you're taking the notes, you're interacting with them,

576
00:28:47,079 --> 00:28:51,200
you should be thinking of a proposal of a solution.

577
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:53,079
Speaker 2: What solution?

578
00:28:53,319 --> 00:28:55,839
Speaker 3: What can I offer them that will make them all

579
00:28:55,839 --> 00:28:57,079
of a sudden they're upset?

580
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,759
Speaker 2: How can I turn that around instant?

581
00:29:01,319 --> 00:29:04,759
Speaker 3: For an example, if there's an issue that needs to

582
00:29:04,799 --> 00:29:06,680
be addressed and I can take care of it at

583
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,200
an additional cost, then I'm going to offer to do that.

584
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:10,759
I'm going to say, you know what, let me take

585
00:29:10,759 --> 00:29:12,119
care of this for you. I'm not going to charge

586
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,160
you for this. You know that type of thing. Let

587
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:17,920
me let me take care of it. Maybe I had

588
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,200
one occasion where you do something and maybe see a

589
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,559
cracked plate or cracked receptacle plate or something like that,

590
00:29:23,599 --> 00:29:24,559
and you happen to have one.

591
00:29:24,599 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 2: You know, your truck is stocked or service like. You

592
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,200
know what I get? You know what I get?

593
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,279
Speaker 3: How you feel and you know the cost, but let

594
00:29:30,319 --> 00:29:32,400
me let me give you let me replace that cover

595
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:32,920
for free.

596
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 2: Let me just give that to you. It may be

597
00:29:34,799 --> 00:29:35,960
something as little as that.

598
00:29:36,319 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 3: Or maybe maybe you have the ability to offer a

599
00:29:39,079 --> 00:29:41,519
round down your hours rather than round up and say,

600
00:29:41,559 --> 00:29:44,480
you know what, let me I understand it, and I

601
00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:46,440
explain to you why it is what it is.

602
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 2: But I get it. I see how in your shoes

603
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,279
this could how it impacts you.

604
00:29:51,359 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 3: So you know what, how about I give you a

605
00:29:53,759 --> 00:29:57,079
partial refund, you know, as long as it's appropriate and

606
00:29:57,119 --> 00:30:01,599
you have the ability to do that, then again offer that.

607
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 2: If it really is a real situation where you want to.

608
00:30:04,559 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 3: Diffuse it, then maybe giving a partial something rounding your

609
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,880
hours back rather than rounding up that type of thing

610
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:16,599
may diffuse it. Okay, So there's different ways. Every company

611
00:30:16,799 --> 00:30:18,880
has their own ways that they would approach that. But again,

612
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,960
offer a remedy on how to fix the problem that

613
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,119
they're presenting to you.

614
00:30:24,559 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 2: Think of a way that you can address it.

615
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 3: And again, if you're a contractor or electrician out there

616
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:30,799
that says I ain't going to do any of that shit,

617
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:32,599
I'm just going to I'm here to do a job,

618
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,640
whether you like it, or not. I'm doing that's okay,

619
00:30:34,839 --> 00:30:37,319
that's you, but your business is never going to grow

620
00:30:38,079 --> 00:30:42,599
to the level that it could be. You're doing good now,

621
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,200
but it'll never grow. I'm just telling you you know.

622
00:30:46,279 --> 00:30:51,440
So Also always remember, if possible, I like to do

623
00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:56,279
what's called involving the customer in your solution. Ask them

624
00:30:56,519 --> 00:30:59,160
what you want. You'd be surprised say, well, what can

625
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,359
we do to make this right? Most people believe it

626
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,400
or not. Even if they think you're overpriced, they won't

627
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,960
say give me a discount. They won't say cut some

628
00:31:06,039 --> 00:31:09,519
money off of it. But it puts them on the spot.

629
00:31:09,759 --> 00:31:13,920
And you're saying, I get it, I understand what solution here?

630
00:31:14,079 --> 00:31:15,839
Speaker 2: What do you What do you think we should do

631
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:16,559
to make this right?

632
00:31:17,839 --> 00:31:20,039
Speaker 3: You'd be surprised that most of the time the customer

633
00:31:20,039 --> 00:31:23,279
will go nothing, there's really nothing. I mean, I'm not upset,

634
00:31:23,279 --> 00:31:24,839
and you know I get your price now because you

635
00:31:24,839 --> 00:31:28,000
explained it now, but you put it on them now

636
00:31:28,039 --> 00:31:28,759
to give your solution.

637
00:31:28,839 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 2: I'll use you a great example of this.

638
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 3: So my wife, for example, if we want to go

639
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,559
out to eat somewhere, I always will go so where

640
00:31:35,559 --> 00:31:38,480
do you want to go eat? And she'll go, I

641
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:39,920
don't care wherever you want to get. I already know

642
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,640
she's going to do this. She's not going to pick

643
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,559
a place. You know, I could spend the wheel of

644
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,960
death when it comes to places to eat. But I

645
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,559
can always ask my wife. I can go, all right, well,

646
00:31:50,559 --> 00:31:52,319
where do you want to eat? I don't care wherever

647
00:31:52,359 --> 00:31:56,039
you want to eat, so already in my mind, I

648
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,440
know where I want to eat when I ask that question.

649
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,440
So I mean again, if it's McDonald's, I'll say, where

650
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,519
do you want to eat? I don't care wherever you

651
00:32:06,559 --> 00:32:07,000
want to eat?

652
00:32:07,079 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 2: Well.

653
00:32:07,279 --> 00:32:09,839
Speaker 3: Good, that's a win win for me because I'll say

654
00:32:10,519 --> 00:32:11,440
McDonald's is fine.

655
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:12,599
Speaker 2: Some people don't like.

656
00:32:12,519 --> 00:32:14,279
Speaker 3: That because they're like, oh shit, now I got to

657
00:32:14,279 --> 00:32:17,200
make a decision. No, I use it opposite. I just

658
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,319
started doing this months ago, and I'm like, you know what,

659
00:32:19,359 --> 00:32:20,200
I already know where.

660
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:20,799
Speaker 2: I want to eat.

661
00:32:22,279 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 3: So if I ask somebody where do you want to

662
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,680
eat and they go, I don't care whatever you want

663
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,160
to eat, perfect opportunity for me to say, cool, I

664
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,200
want to eat at the mineral restaurant right down the

665
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,599
street and they say, you know, I don't want to

666
00:32:33,599 --> 00:32:34,960
eat there, and I'm like, all right, Well, where do

667
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:35,519
you want to eat?

668
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,839
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. Well I'd like to eat at

669
00:32:37,839 --> 00:32:40,440
the mineral restaurant, So that's where I guess that's where

670
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,000
we'll go unless you got somewhere you want to eat.

671
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,799
And you know that type of thing. So I gave

672
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,079
them a vested interest in picking and they choose not to.

673
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,599
Speaker 3: So you'd be surprised when you get your customer involved

674
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,519
in that situation that they will end up wanting you

675
00:32:53,599 --> 00:32:58,240
to do nothing and they'll still feel like they want

676
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,119
and it diffuses the city. And that's when I'll come back.

677
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:03,599
I like, well, what do you want to make this right?

678
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:05,279
And you go, well, I don't think there's anything you

679
00:33:05,319 --> 00:33:07,960
explained it. I'm just I don't know. It's just I'm like,

680
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:08,480
we'll tell you what.

681
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:09,079
Speaker 2: Here's what I do.

682
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 3: Can I give you a free inspection, a free looking

683
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:14,680
at your panel and make sure there's no hazards involved.

684
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 2: You just might not have encountered them yet. It just

685
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,880
can I it's free, it won't cost you anything. Or

686
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,680
maybe you say I want to do free do with

687
00:33:21,759 --> 00:33:23,720
free energy audit. It's free. I'm already here. It's not

688
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:24,440
gonna cost you anything.

689
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna sell you anything, but I'm gonna look

690
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,400
around and tell you what luminaris you may be able

691
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,480
to change and get more energy efficient that type of

692
00:33:32,519 --> 00:33:35,039
thing and then make things look newer and stuff like that.

693
00:33:35,119 --> 00:33:35,519
Speaker 2: You don't know.

694
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 3: No obligation, no obligation. You get creative, Get creative, but

695
00:33:41,759 --> 00:33:44,799
feel like you're giving them, giving them something. You can

696
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:50,240
diffuse a negative situation so quickly if you understand the

697
00:33:50,279 --> 00:33:54,279
mentality of how this works. Now, I need you to

698
00:33:54,319 --> 00:33:57,519
be transparent always with the customer. If a problem can't

699
00:33:57,519 --> 00:34:00,440
be resolved, immediately explain the steps that you will need

700
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,440
to take. So maybe it's even bigger picture that has

701
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,559
something that has to do through the company. Maybe you

702
00:34:05,599 --> 00:34:08,199
have somebody you answer to and you have to make

703
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:13,280
bigger decisions. Don't leave them wondering if you're going to

704
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,000
call back, don't leave them wondering.

705
00:34:15,119 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 2: I make it.

706
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,079
Speaker 3: I make them realize that I am connected with them.

707
00:34:18,559 --> 00:34:21,000
So this is why I was really big on what

708
00:34:21,039 --> 00:34:25,480
we had called sparks card with the tap NFC, because

709
00:34:25,559 --> 00:34:27,280
I had a way of putting it on the phone

710
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,039
and saying, Okay, look, I'm staying connected with you. Basically,

711
00:34:31,079 --> 00:34:33,079
it was a way to put your contact information on

712
00:34:33,119 --> 00:34:36,320
their phone. But I had a hard time conveying that

713
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,639
to people. So Sparks Card just didn't take off the

714
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:41,400
way I wanted it. But I still use it. I

715
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,480
still use the NFC cards, I still have the products.

716
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:47,960
They're available on our websites. But people didn't understand what

717
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,920
we were doing. It was a way for you to

718
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,199
stay connected with that customer so that they did not

719
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,320
feel like you're leaving them. I'm gonna I'll give you

720
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,119
a great example. We're having a fence put in, so

721
00:35:00,119 --> 00:35:02,039
we had a fence company come out. It's hard to

722
00:35:02,039 --> 00:35:03,199
get fence people to come out.

723
00:35:04,519 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 2: They came out. I liked what they said.

724
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,679
Speaker 3: I paid them up front to down deposit, and I

725
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,400
haven't heard a word from them since. And anxiety will

726
00:35:12,519 --> 00:35:15,760
kick into anybody when you're dropping three or four thousand

727
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,559
dollars down on something as a down payment for something

728
00:35:19,079 --> 00:35:21,039
and you don't you're not connected with them.

729
00:35:21,159 --> 00:35:22,559
Speaker 2: It's for me.

730
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 3: I would have said, if once they pay me the money,

731
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,079
I would say, okay, Well if this takes a little

732
00:35:28,119 --> 00:35:30,320
longer to get resolved or something has to be resolved,

733
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,280
I'm like, here you go, let me put this on

734
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,760
your phone. And this allows us to be able to

735
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:39,400
communicate directly through this a little app. It's quick and simple,

736
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,920
the web based, and I want to stay connected with

737
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,519
you because I do want resolution for you and to

738
00:35:45,519 --> 00:35:47,000
get this for you and see what I can do

739
00:35:47,039 --> 00:35:51,280
for you. Customers love that they eat that stuff up.

740
00:35:51,559 --> 00:35:55,079
And so you could start out with somebody that's really

741
00:35:55,119 --> 00:35:58,239
set off a bad impression, but before you leave that project,

742
00:35:59,119 --> 00:36:01,719
they would be loving all of the interaction that you

743
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,960
give and staying in with staying in contact, and it's

744
00:36:05,039 --> 00:36:06,719
not going to be big for you. It's like like

745
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,960
with Paul, I don't want to I don't want to

746
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:10,800
have to be so connected with every damn body that

747
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,480
I got to go back and get No, it's not

748
00:36:12,599 --> 00:36:17,440
that difficult to do, it's not. It's a mindset, right,

749
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:19,639
So be very transparent with them.

750
00:36:19,679 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 2: Now.

751
00:36:20,679 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 3: One of the things that I want to tell you

752
00:36:23,039 --> 00:36:27,360
with some customers now, don't get me wrong, is we

753
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,960
want to make sure that we prevent what we call

754
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:35,239
escalation of an issue. Not every employees created same, not

755
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:40,639
every master electrician, journeyman, electrician, HVAC plumbing master, what They're not.

756
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: All created equal.

757
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,199
Speaker 3: So we have to make sure we understand what escalation

758
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,239
is and how we make sure that it does not

759
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:48,920
get to.

760
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 2: A point of escalation. What is that?

761
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 3: Well, if a customer that you're working with becomes abusive

762
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,840
in some way and they really start are uptoning you

763
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,519
or really getting up in your face, and you know,

764
00:37:03,559 --> 00:37:06,599
it doesn't matter whether you're the jolly John from backwoods

765
00:37:06,599 --> 00:37:09,480
of Kentucky and you're like, I'm defending my honor and

766
00:37:09,519 --> 00:37:11,239
your chest pokes out and you want to get in

767
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:11,760
their face.

768
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 2: If you work for me, you better not. You better not.

769
00:37:18,039 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 3: So if a customer gets unruly, maybe we don't want

770
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,480
them as a customer. Now, that does not mean, okay,

771
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,719
that you have to take abuse. I told my customers,

772
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,800
I told my employees in the day, was look, if

773
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:37,440
somebody gets very aggressive and abusive and you haven't even

774
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,280
done the work yet, they're up in your face. Now,

775
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:41,920
if you've already done the work, you gotta be careful

776
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,679
because we're gonna still get our money. But if they

777
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,039
come at you up up front, then maybe we don't

778
00:37:47,039 --> 00:37:50,599
want their business. So you can say, very politely, you

779
00:37:50,599 --> 00:37:52,679
know what I think, before we get down this road,

780
00:37:53,119 --> 00:37:55,960
maybe it's better that we don't do business together.

781
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 2: I'll let them know. Back at the office, I'll let

782
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,159
them know. Don't worry. You know, maybe we came off

783
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,280
the wrong foot. Don't be afraid to walk away. But

784
00:38:06,519 --> 00:38:09,000
I teach the employees to be able to understand that

785
00:38:09,079 --> 00:38:09,679
because that is.

786
00:38:09,639 --> 00:38:13,159
Speaker 3: A very rare situation. Okay, because they called you out

787
00:38:13,159 --> 00:38:15,639
there to get something done. Chances are they're not going

788
00:38:15,679 --> 00:38:17,639
to be up in your face right away. Something had

789
00:38:17,639 --> 00:38:21,440
to happen. Now, if they become abusive, calmly state that

790
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,400
you're willing to resolve this issue. But you know what,

791
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,440
you don't have to tolerate the disrespect. And you can

792
00:38:27,559 --> 00:38:29,440
say that in a very polite way. It says, Look,

793
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:33,079
I don't deserve to be disrespected here. I'm trying to

794
00:38:33,079 --> 00:38:36,079
work with you. I'm here to solve an issue. Are

795
00:38:36,079 --> 00:38:37,519
we going to be able to get you know? And

796
00:38:37,559 --> 00:38:39,760
here's another thing I tell people. De escalation is the

797
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,079
ability to tell the other person, are we going to

798
00:38:42,079 --> 00:38:44,440
be able to get beyond this and work together? You

799
00:38:44,519 --> 00:38:46,320
got something you need done and I'm here to fix it.

800
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,079
Speaker 2: Can we work together? You know? That type of thing.

801
00:38:49,119 --> 00:38:53,679
And if they say no, no, no, walk away, walk away? Okay.

802
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:59,199
Speaker 3: Now, the other thing is written communication when emotions are

803
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,280
running high. Uh, then maybe you don't sit there and

804
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,679
you banter and you say, you know what, I'll get

805
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,559
you something. We'll email you, or we'll give you something

806
00:39:06,599 --> 00:39:09,800
in a formal communication to keep records. And that way

807
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,639
we reduce the misunderstanding. Okay, if somebody is arguing with you,

808
00:39:13,639 --> 00:39:15,199
for example, if I'm out there and I'm telling them

809
00:39:15,199 --> 00:39:17,280
what are what our policies are on this that, and

810
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:18,800
then they don't understand it, and I go, you know what,

811
00:39:19,519 --> 00:39:21,960
rather than escalate it, and they're really starting to get like,

812
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,280
I don't understand this is stupid.

813
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 2: That's a dumb rule. You know what. Maybe I'm conveying

814
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:27,960
it poorly.

815
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,119
Speaker 3: And UH, tell you what, let me send it to

816
00:39:31,159 --> 00:39:34,800
you in any email or in a formal communication from

817
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,800
our office. Uh, and I'll explain it. We'll put it

818
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,159
in details so that it's written out. You can keep

819
00:39:40,199 --> 00:39:43,079
it for your records and uh and if there's misunder

820
00:39:43,199 --> 00:39:45,360
any misunderstanding there, we can take it item by item.

821
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,079
And that's easier than to us just sit here, do

822
00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:49,440
this because I'm really here to solve your solve your

823
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,239
problem for you. And uh, they might say, okay, well,

824
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,920
that's fine, Just can I get it in writing. Absolutely,

825
00:39:55,519 --> 00:39:58,519
don't be afraid to put thing in communication. Just make

826
00:39:58,559 --> 00:40:01,719
sure that whatever you put in your communitytions, remember anything

827
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:03,840
that you put in an email or anything that you

828
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,079
put in a communication that has kept as a record.

829
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:07,639
Speaker 2: Think of it is.

830
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:09,639
Speaker 3: It's the same thing that you'd be pulling out in

831
00:40:09,679 --> 00:40:11,119
front of you if you're standing in front of a

832
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,800
judge in a courtroom. Okay, don't ever think that anything

833
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,639
that you say in email or an your communications as privates.

834
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,440
If I had to give anybody any advice, the first

835
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,719
thing I would say is, do not put in a

836
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,559
text message, an email, or a formal communication that you

837
00:40:29,599 --> 00:40:33,679
would not want blazoned on the five o'clock news. Hey,

838
00:40:35,039 --> 00:40:38,000
do not think that these people are your friends. They

839
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,320
are not your friends. The eighty year old grandmother that

840
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,480
I put in illumina air for who loves you to death,

841
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,599
that thanks, You're just like her grandkid. That's great.

842
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 2: I love it.

843
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 3: I've gotten those I love that. I love going back

844
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,760
doing work for them, and then I go out of

845
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,519
my way to do everything I can for them.

846
00:40:54,159 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 2: Okay, but at the end of the day, I realize

847
00:40:58,920 --> 00:40:59,320
what they are.

848
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,559
Speaker 3: They're a customer. I'm making money. I mean, I'm in

849
00:41:01,599 --> 00:41:04,760
business to make money that type of thing. So remember

850
00:41:05,119 --> 00:41:09,159
anything that you put and when something happens. And let's

851
00:41:09,159 --> 00:41:11,679
say I love that granny and I do that work

852
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,480
for but I say something in an email, something that's

853
00:41:14,519 --> 00:41:18,519
outside of company protocol or whatever I do. Don't think

854
00:41:18,559 --> 00:41:21,599
that they don't have a grandkid. Who's going to think

855
00:41:21,599 --> 00:41:24,400
that they know better than their grandmom. And the next

856
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,440
thing you know is your asking sued for something. Okay,

857
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:32,079
So never think that the sweetest person in the world

858
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,760
is always your friend. Please, if I have to give

859
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:39,159
anybody some real advice, nobody, Okay, listen to me.

860
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell you again, nobody you do work for

861
00:41:42,519 --> 00:41:43,719
out there is your friend.

862
00:41:45,599 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 3: Nobody. Please, I'm gonna say it again. They are not

863
00:41:49,119 --> 00:41:52,800
your friend. Do the work as if you were doing

864
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,199
it for your mom, the same as you do it

865
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:57,639
for your friend down the street, as you would for

866
00:41:57,679 --> 00:42:01,000
a random customer. Okay, to do the work and you're

867
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:06,559
gonna get paid. Treat it professional. So at the end

868
00:42:06,599 --> 00:42:10,719
of the day, if you don't think that somebody that's

869
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,239
related to somebody, or when shit hits the fan, I

870
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,760
can go do some work for this eighty year old grandmother.

871
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,960
But then all of a sudden something happens in her house.

872
00:42:19,079 --> 00:42:21,039
It catches fire. It has nothing to do with what

873
00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:24,360
I did. You're gonna have some ass attorney come in

874
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,280
and say, well, did you have anybody do any work

875
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:27,039
on the house lately?

876
00:42:27,639 --> 00:42:30,639
Speaker 2: Well, yes, I had this sweep, I had this sweet Paul.

877
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,039
Speaker 3: Abernathy from Abernathy Electrical came out.

878
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 2: And put this plug in. Oh he did, he's sweet.

879
00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:39,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, Well a lawyer is gonna twist that and

880
00:42:39,559 --> 00:42:41,679
say the last person that worked on the home was

881
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,840
Paul with Abernathy Electrical, and there's a chance that it

882
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,760
was caused by him. And now you're already you're already

883
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:52,199
on the defensive, trying to prove why trust me, you're easy,

884
00:42:52,519 --> 00:42:54,599
because they're gonna throw you under the bus to save

885
00:42:54,639 --> 00:42:59,599
their own interest. Everybody does. Don't fool yourself, folks, this

886
00:42:59,639 --> 00:43:02,800
is business. They will throw you under the bus in

887
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,480
a heartbeat. Anybody will to save their own ass. I

888
00:43:06,519 --> 00:43:08,440
hate to say that, I hate to sound skeptical, but

889
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:13,480
that's the way you treat everything as if that could happen, okay,

890
00:43:14,559 --> 00:43:17,559
and also if it ends up being a really bad situation,

891
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,559
and you have really bad disagreements between you and the customer,

892
00:43:21,679 --> 00:43:25,960
then there are third party arbiters that you can do,

893
00:43:26,079 --> 00:43:30,960
trade associations, a neutral mediator. If the disagreement cannot be

894
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,599
resolved directly, then you can go to mediation, and a

895
00:43:34,599 --> 00:43:37,559
lot of contracts that people have will have that clause

896
00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:41,679
on there rather than go to court, that you accepting disagreement,

897
00:43:42,039 --> 00:43:47,159
that you accept mediation, and that pretty much trying to

898
00:43:47,199 --> 00:43:49,239
waive the go to court, and that way you can

899
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,199
have a third party come in. Again, I'm not a lawyer,

900
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,760
not giving advice, not a tax accountant.

901
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 2: I don't give tax advice.

902
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,519
Speaker 3: But I'm saying there are ways to have mediation to

903
00:43:59,559 --> 00:44:01,519
be used if there's a total discruntal. But again I'm

904
00:44:01,519 --> 00:44:03,199
telling you, most of the time you can get you

905
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:09,000
you won't get to that point. Okay, all right, getting

906
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,400
to the end here, folks, But I just want to

907
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,119
cover a couple more things here, learn and improve, evaluate

908
00:44:13,119 --> 00:44:15,840
what went wrong. After you have a situation like that,

909
00:44:16,639 --> 00:44:19,159
don't just forget about it. If you have a disgruntal

910
00:44:20,639 --> 00:44:23,400
contact or a discrintal customer, or something like this happens

911
00:44:24,039 --> 00:44:26,199
and you're writing those notes that I tell you about,

912
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:32,079
make sure that you actually review that situation with your

913
00:44:32,599 --> 00:44:34,679
office or with the other people and your team or

914
00:44:34,679 --> 00:44:37,599
whatever to see how can we have changed this, How

915
00:44:37,639 --> 00:44:42,119
can we have post experience, How can we have corrected this?

916
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:47,559
What did we say? How did we do something differently? Okay,

917
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,159
how did we set that bad impression? What did we

918
00:44:50,199 --> 00:44:52,920
do what triggered this? Well, if you say, well, it's

919
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,000
the price that triggered it. They didn't like our price,

920
00:44:55,079 --> 00:44:57,719
Well that's a pretty broad Okay. Well, then you look

921
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,480
at it and go, well, hey, guys, let's come up

922
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,119
with a response for our price.

923
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 2: Let's come up with a response.

924
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,760
Speaker 3: That you all can use to explain why our price

925
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,960
is what our price is. And that's a canned response

926
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:12,679
that we're gonna use.

927
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:16,079
Speaker 2: So we have it already available, and so we can go, well,

928
00:45:16,119 --> 00:45:18,360
and we have the overhead, you know, and then throw

929
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:19,880
some empathy in there, say I get it.

930
00:45:20,199 --> 00:45:22,039
Speaker 3: I'd hate it too if somebody came to my house

931
00:45:22,039 --> 00:45:25,440
in charge. But we have overhead. We have expenses.

932
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,199
Speaker 2: We have to pay the insurances, we have to pay, licensing,

933
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:29,159
we have to pay.

934
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 3: Marketing, we have to pay. It's not like we're a

935
00:45:31,519 --> 00:45:33,360
mom and pop. We're just a one person show. I

936
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,639
mean I have expenses, and maybe you are a one

937
00:45:35,679 --> 00:45:39,800
man show, but you still have expenses, but your prices

938
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,519
are probably going to be less anyway, right because you

939
00:45:43,559 --> 00:45:46,599
don't have the same level of burdens. My brother, for example,

940
00:45:46,679 --> 00:45:50,039
is just a one man show. He does multimillion dollar houses.

941
00:45:50,039 --> 00:45:52,360
That's all he chooses to do. He's lucky if he

942
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,039
does a couple of year. That's all he wants to do.

943
00:45:54,079 --> 00:45:58,400
Now he's in his sixties. Great contractor, right, he's built

944
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,039
his customer base that type of thing. But he will

945
00:46:01,039 --> 00:46:05,480
do anything for anybody in uh. But he knows his limitations, right,

946
00:46:06,079 --> 00:46:10,400
So you know everybody's different, but you need to evaluate

947
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,440
what you did wrong and so that you can build

948
00:46:13,519 --> 00:46:16,440
a case for it to be used. It's kind of

949
00:46:16,519 --> 00:46:20,440
like people talk about the pricing flat rate pricing, where

950
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,880
you have set structures of pricing, which is great. Maybe

951
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,079
one day I'll do a podcast on flat rate pricing.

952
00:46:26,159 --> 00:46:29,719
But because I used flat rate pricing when I was

953
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:34,920
in McKinney, Texas before I stopped doing contracting. But one

954
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,440
of the things is if you can established why your

955
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:41,159
prices are why they are, then you can diffuse a

956
00:46:41,159 --> 00:46:44,639
lot of people that have problems with your pricing. Update

957
00:46:44,679 --> 00:46:50,039
your process, always adjust your contract. Always look at the

958
00:46:50,079 --> 00:46:52,880
contract to make sure your contracts are clear so people

959
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:58,880
aren't confused by the verbage. Don't be afraid to take feedback,

960
00:46:59,639 --> 00:47:01,480
even if a customer's upset.

961
00:47:02,039 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 2: Here's a big thing.

962
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 3: You're not asking for a review, You're asking for feedback.

963
00:47:08,079 --> 00:47:10,239
And this is something that we used to do on

964
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,400
the Sparks card. Was to allow a customer to go

965
00:47:13,519 --> 00:47:16,199
in negative or positive. It wasn't what you're going to

966
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,360
use on your media, wasn't what you're going to use

967
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:23,159
on your website. Allow the customer to vent, even if

968
00:47:23,199 --> 00:47:27,519
they are totally pissed off. Give them a platform, give

969
00:47:27,679 --> 00:47:30,039
them a way to vent. Now, they may think that

970
00:47:30,079 --> 00:47:31,960
what they're venting is going to get posted somewhere and

971
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:33,639
they're going to be trashing your name.

972
00:47:34,679 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 2: I don't think it's going to get to that.

973
00:47:36,199 --> 00:47:40,679
Speaker 3: But allow them to vent and give them that avenue

974
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,800
to let them so collect that feedback, whether it's a form,

975
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:45,760
whether it's on the website, whatever it is.

976
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 2: Tell them, look, I understand.

977
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,639
Speaker 3: Your concern, and we do want to learn from this situation,

978
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:51,960
and we do want to make it better, but we

979
00:47:52,039 --> 00:47:55,519
do value your feedback. So I understand that you're upset,

980
00:47:56,679 --> 00:47:59,320
and I've asked you what you think we can do

981
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:01,920
to help all that for you. Here, I'm willing to

982
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,760
try to resolve this and make this a good experience

983
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,239
for both of us. Okay, you know, swallow your pride,

984
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:12,239
but also you know they're pissed. Ask them to give feedback,

985
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,559
because you'd be surprised about a feedback you get back,

986
00:48:14,559 --> 00:48:16,079
and again, don't take it personal.

987
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,519
Speaker 2: It's just feedback, okay, all.

988
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,119
Speaker 3: Right, So those are the type of things to do,

989
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,920
and there's different ways to collect that data. I'm more

990
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:26,679
than happy to answer those if you want to email

991
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,280
me or send a request to Paul Avenuet dot com

992
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,559
little tips on how to do forms and how to

993
00:48:31,559 --> 00:48:32,280
set up those things.

994
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 2: I'm here to help you, folks.

995
00:48:34,039 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 3: I'm here to teach you what I've learned in almost

996
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:39,880
forty years of contracting, so that you don't make the

997
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:45,159
same mistakes. This is a different world. Everybody is more woke,

998
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:48,880
everybody is more offended easily, and so you have to adapt.

999
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:50,519
And you might say, I don't have to change a

1000
00:48:50,639 --> 00:48:54,239
damn thing I do. Okay, I'll give you an example.

1001
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,800
So I remember a couple of years ago, the guy

1002
00:49:00,119 --> 00:49:04,199
on it, Dustin from Electrician You, contacted me. He was

1003
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,960
just getting started with Electrician You. He was just getting

1004
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,280
started and he called me and wanted to work with me,

1005
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:12,239
and I gave him some advice and different things. And

1006
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:14,639
his videos he used to cuss like a sailor, I

1007
00:49:14,679 --> 00:49:17,880
mean really bad. And I told him, I said, you

1008
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,559
know what, as you get more popular, because there's a

1009
00:49:20,599 --> 00:49:23,360
market for the videos that are just watching people install stuff.

1010
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,559
There's a market for it. I can't watch it, but

1011
00:49:25,559 --> 00:49:28,519
there's a market. I said to him, I said, you

1012
00:49:28,559 --> 00:49:30,639
know you're going to change. He said, I'm never going

1013
00:49:30,679 --> 00:49:33,159
to change. It's in my contract that these people realize

1014
00:49:33,199 --> 00:49:34,360
that I can say what I want to do it

1015
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:34,639
I want.

1016
00:49:34,679 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 2: I said, don't worry.

1017
00:49:36,039 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 3: You will change when the money starts rolling in and

1018
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,440
people start saying that I can't use your content because

1019
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,159
it's either too vulgar or whatnot or what the F

1020
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,599
bombs every two words, You're going to change. And he said, no,

1021
00:49:48,679 --> 00:49:50,320
I'm never going to change. I'm never going to change.

1022
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,039
And then he changed. This happens to everybody. Okay, I've

1023
00:49:54,039 --> 00:49:55,760
been doing this long enough that I can tell you

1024
00:49:55,880 --> 00:50:00,280
it happens to everybody. I have helped many people get

1025
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,400
started in this industry when it comes.

1026
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,119
Speaker 2: To podcasting or videos.

1027
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 3: Again, I tell people I joke about being the godfather

1028
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:09,960
of this type of stuff. I was doing this stuff

1029
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,960
online before anybody was doing it, even before Mike was

1030
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:14,440
doing it.

1031
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:16,119
Speaker 2: I was doing stuff online.

1032
00:50:17,519 --> 00:50:21,760
Speaker 3: And so at the end of the day, I like

1033
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:26,039
to keep people from making the same mistakes that I've made. Right,

1034
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,000
So again, these are just tips to help you. Now,

1035
00:50:29,079 --> 00:50:32,719
proactive tips to help you avoid a dispute.

1036
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,760
Speaker 2: Here's some proactive tips. You're ready, We're just going to

1037
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:37,239
run down a couple tips. I don't have the many.

1038
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:39,119
Speaker 3: I just have a few, and then we'll into the

1039
00:50:39,119 --> 00:50:40,639
conclusion and we'll end this podcast.

1040
00:50:40,639 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 2: But proactive tips to avoid disputes.

1041
00:50:43,559 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 3: Number one, clear communication from the very start, set realistic

1042
00:50:48,079 --> 00:50:52,400
expectations with timelines. Make the cost is very clear and

1043
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,480
the outcome. Let them know when you're going to start,

1044
00:50:55,079 --> 00:50:57,599
what the cost is going to be, and when you're

1045
00:50:57,599 --> 00:51:01,119
expected to finish. Now understand, things can happen and you

1046
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:05,079
kind of get a timeline that gets wonky, But go

1047
00:51:05,199 --> 00:51:09,639
in with clear expectations. I hate it when people give

1048
00:51:09,679 --> 00:51:11,800
bids and pricing and all that and they do not

1049
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:15,280
make it clear. What's my timeline, what's the cost, what

1050
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,360
are the outcomes, what I'm going to finish? Okay, make

1051
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:23,079
sure that you always provide a clear scope of what

1052
00:51:23,159 --> 00:51:25,480
you're doing. If I'm doing a service call, I make

1053
00:51:25,519 --> 00:51:30,519
it clear upfront. I teach people electricians who interact with customers,

1054
00:51:30,559 --> 00:51:33,199
because not every electrician can interact well with customers, and

1055
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,840
every business should have employees that interact well with customers.

1056
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,440
So I train them for this in my mentorship and

1057
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,719
I tell them, I'm like, look, when you're going into this,

1058
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,599
you want to make sure that you're very clear from

1059
00:51:46,679 --> 00:51:47,199
the beginning.

1060
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 2: Hi.

1061
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:52,199
Speaker 3: Hey, I'm Paul Abernight from Electrical Service Specialists. I'm here

1062
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:55,559
to you called about having this fixed. That's what I'm

1063
00:51:55,599 --> 00:51:58,800
here for. I'm here to troubleshoot this or replace this

1064
00:51:59,039 --> 00:52:03,000
or do this. That that very clear. Uh, these are

1065
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:03,679
our rates.

1066
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:04,199
Speaker 2: You know.

1067
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:06,159
Speaker 3: People say, oh, don't talk about money. Well, it's the

1068
00:52:06,199 --> 00:52:10,440
elephant in the room, so get over it. Talk about it, okay,

1069
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,440
and say look here, I'm here to fix this and

1070
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,840
do this. Do this if you have any questions, Please

1071
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,039
feel free to ask me while I'm here. No questions

1072
00:52:18,039 --> 00:52:20,360
off bounds. I would love to any concerns you have.

1073
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:22,719
I'm here, but I'm gonna get to it. So because

1074
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:24,679
I want to be a good steward of your money,

1075
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:26,079
I want to be a good steward of your time.

1076
00:52:26,119 --> 00:52:27,199
I want to make sure I try to get in

1077
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:28,880
and get out and get what you need done quickly.

1078
00:52:29,159 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 2: Is that okay? That sound good to you?

1079
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,800
Speaker 3: Does that sound And That's another tactic that I use

1080
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,480
when I'm dealing with customers, is I ask them questions

1081
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:41,079
for responses right is.

1082
00:52:41,119 --> 00:52:43,639
Speaker 2: I'll say something like is that good for you? Is that?

1083
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,440
Does that work for you? Or is this? Does that

1084
00:52:46,559 --> 00:52:49,199
sound reasonable to you? Because I want them to say yes.

1085
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:49,760
I want them to.

1086
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 3: Get engaged that type of thing okay. So I'll tell people.

1087
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:55,039
For example, when I go to do service calls, people

1088
00:52:55,079 --> 00:52:57,800
would follow me around and I noticed they're following me around,

1089
00:52:57,800 --> 00:52:58,079
So I.

1090
00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 2: Would address the elephant in the room.

1091
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,519
Speaker 3: I say, even though I know they're following me, I'd say,

1092
00:53:02,519 --> 00:53:03,559
well come on with me, let's go.

1093
00:53:03,599 --> 00:53:03,760
Speaker 2: Look.

1094
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 3: If you have any questions on what I'm doing, I'm

1095
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:06,840
more than happy. Some people don't want to interact with

1096
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:10,639
the customer. I got nothing to hide. I'm like, come on, yeah,

1097
00:53:10,679 --> 00:53:12,679
I'll show you. I'm going into the panel. You maybe

1098
00:53:12,679 --> 00:53:14,920
you've never seen your panel before. Step back, stay back

1099
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,239
a little bit, okay, But you got any questions, more

1100
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,159
than happy to ask me about them. You want to

1101
00:53:20,159 --> 00:53:22,239
know what circuit breaker is, you want to know what

1102
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,119
that while we do this, I'm more than happy to

1103
00:53:24,159 --> 00:53:25,800
engage with them.

1104
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:30,119
Speaker 2: You'd be surprised how it wins over a customer.

1105
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:36,159
Speaker 3: I'm just saying, all right, so set a realistic expectation, timeline, costs,

1106
00:53:36,159 --> 00:53:39,079
and outcomes. When we got somebody in and instagram says

1107
00:53:39,119 --> 00:53:42,159
you used our YouTube videos to help pass their master's exam,

1108
00:53:42,199 --> 00:53:48,280
well congratulations. I love living vicariously through other people's success.

1109
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:50,920
A lot of people think Paul Abernathy is all about

1110
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:53,639
Paul Abernathy. That means you really don't know who I am.

1111
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:57,480
I got my haters out there, but they don't know me.

1112
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,199
They don't know what we've given to the industry. They

1113
00:54:00,199 --> 00:54:01,960
don't know what Mike Holt gives to the industry. They

1114
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:03,960
don't know what Ryan Jackson gives to the industry. They

1115
00:54:04,039 --> 00:54:06,239
just not might not like our videos or might not

1116
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:09,679
like our podcasts, and they judge people. Okay, the James

1117
00:54:09,679 --> 00:54:13,000
stoulecups in the world, they hate me. All those people

1118
00:54:13,039 --> 00:54:15,800
they hate me and they don't even know me. So

1119
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:18,280
I've only ever met the old man. So but his

1120
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,360
son hates me. Yeah, because that, you know, is what

1121
00:54:21,519 --> 00:54:25,239
it is. I don't care. But again, hate is a

1122
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:29,079
strong word. I have to generate hate by meeting somebody,

1123
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:31,679
or if they actively go after you, try to hurt

1124
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:34,480
you in some way, then I can develop I hate.

1125
00:54:34,519 --> 00:54:37,119
But other than that, I typically there's not many people

1126
00:54:37,159 --> 00:54:38,400
that I hate in the world.

1127
00:54:38,639 --> 00:54:40,280
Speaker 2: I don't know how I got to that, but anyway,

1128
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:42,000
I digress.

1129
00:54:42,599 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 3: Make sure you're clear about your task as a contractor.

1130
00:54:45,559 --> 00:54:47,880
Make sure you're clear about your task and your contracts.

1131
00:54:48,079 --> 00:54:50,320
If you're going to a project serve, even if it's

1132
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,880
a service call, make it clear what you're there for,

1133
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,400
what your timeline is, what's your expectations is, what's the

1134
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,840
scope of the work as you're here for, so that

1135
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:03,119
they know what they're paying for. Also, provide regular updates

1136
00:55:03,159 --> 00:55:06,320
to keep your clients informed and involved. This is why

1137
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,360
I was a big believer in our app our little

1138
00:55:09,639 --> 00:55:13,199
NFC cards because it puts something on your customer's phone,

1139
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:15,559
and that way, it was allowing me to contact with

1140
00:55:15,599 --> 00:55:18,440
them and keep them engaged, to let them know what's

1141
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,719
going on. But this also could be why you're on

1142
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,880
the job. Don't be afraid to let them know what's

1143
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:27,320
going on. That's proactive to avoid disputes because they don't

1144
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:29,679
know what the hell you're doing. Like if I'm going

1145
00:55:29,679 --> 00:55:31,519
to the panel, I might say to them like, okay,

1146
00:55:31,559 --> 00:55:32,599
I'm going to go to your panel.

1147
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 2: By the way, I'm going to the pan. They don't care.

1148
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 3: But you might say, I'm going to the panel because

1149
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:38,079
I need to turn the power off. And by the way,

1150
00:55:38,119 --> 00:55:39,639
I'll look at it real quick to make sure there's

1151
00:55:39,679 --> 00:55:41,599
nothing funky going on in here. Just while i'm looking

1152
00:55:41,639 --> 00:55:43,599
at it, glance it for you. Don't worry about that.

1153
00:55:43,639 --> 00:55:45,559
I'll take care of that for you as you never know.

1154
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:48,119
But I'm going there to cut it off so I

1155
00:55:48,159 --> 00:55:49,719
can work on the surface because it's circuit because I

1156
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:52,159
don't want to work on it. Energized that type of thing.

1157
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:54,960
You might think that they don't care about that, but

1158
00:55:55,039 --> 00:56:00,760
it helps to diffuse their disputes because they're kind of

1159
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,679
knowing what you're doing, they know what they're paying for. Okay,

1160
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:05,800
how you interact that in your company, it's up to you.

1161
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,360
I'm just giving you tips. Okay, these are proactive tips.

1162
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:16,119
Next is document everything. Maintain a written record of all agreements,

1163
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:19,480
changes in communication. This is one thing I tell people

1164
00:56:19,519 --> 00:56:23,480
all the time. My brother doesn't do this, but I

1165
00:56:23,519 --> 00:56:27,719
tell this is I'm a change order guy. If anything changes,

1166
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,519
any agreement, anything changes the scope of what I'm doing,

1167
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:33,679
or what I've been hired to do, anything like that,

1168
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:36,199
I make sure that I document it, that it's written.

1169
00:56:36,639 --> 00:56:41,000
Okay at some point because everybody, I believe needs to

1170
00:56:41,079 --> 00:56:43,440
know if the scope.

1171
00:56:43,079 --> 00:56:45,599
Speaker 2: Of what you're there for changes for some reason.

1172
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:49,119
Speaker 3: And so I'm a big believer in making everybody aware

1173
00:56:49,159 --> 00:56:52,760
and keeping communication, keeping records anything that changes in the

1174
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,880
scope of what I'm doing. I want everybody to know

1175
00:56:56,559 --> 00:56:59,199
that you can avoid disputes. It's about what they don't

1176
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:00,760
know is what they get pay off about.

1177
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:04,039
Speaker 2: Okay. So again, kind of.

1178
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:07,320
Speaker 3: Wrapping this thing up for everybody in this episode is

1179
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:07,960
number one.

1180
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:09,840
Speaker 2: Listen actively.

1181
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 3: It's so hard to want to jump up and finish

1182
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,800
somebody's sentence and whatnot, but you need to learn to listen,

1183
00:57:18,119 --> 00:57:23,760
proactively make notes so that you can address these issues calmly, logically,

1184
00:57:24,239 --> 00:57:29,920
stay professional, propose a solution, ask them questions and ask

1185
00:57:30,039 --> 00:57:33,559
them to help with the solution, and also make sure

1186
00:57:33,599 --> 00:57:35,840
you document it and learn from the conflict so it

1187
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,519
doesn't happen again. Or you can train your group of

1188
00:57:38,599 --> 00:57:40,599
individuals that you work with on.

1189
00:57:40,639 --> 00:57:42,239
Speaker 2: How to engage these.

1190
00:57:43,519 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 3: I think one of the other things is think about

1191
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:51,360
the bigger picture for your company, because everybody knows somebody.

1192
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:53,599
Speaker 2: It sounds like there's a song about that.

1193
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:59,679
Speaker 3: Everybody who somebody sometime and so at the end of

1194
00:57:59,719 --> 00:58:05,119
the day, minimize these disputes. Turn a turd into a

1195
00:58:05,159 --> 00:58:09,320
silver nugget by understanding how the communication can turn south

1196
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:13,000
pretty quickly, and you stay and work on your professional

1197
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:16,920
skills interacting with the customer, understanding how to overcome the weaknesses,

1198
00:58:18,159 --> 00:58:21,320
building your reputation because you were somebody that explains it

1199
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,199
to them. I will tell you, as an electrical head

1200
00:58:24,199 --> 00:58:26,920
of electrical inspections, I was in northern Virginia. Some of

1201
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:28,840
you may remember or you listen to this was I

1202
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:32,360
was the head of the jurisdiction over electrical in the

1203
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:36,400
city of Alexandria. Virginia and also Richmond, Virginia. Now, when

1204
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:38,800
I came out to the job site, there was something wrong,

1205
00:58:39,079 --> 00:58:42,519
either you disagreed with the inspector, there was an argument,

1206
00:58:42,719 --> 00:58:45,639
or something wasn't going on. Very rarely did I go

1207
00:58:45,679 --> 00:58:48,159
out and do inspections after the first year or two,

1208
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:51,559
unless I was going out to follow behind my inspectors

1209
00:58:51,599 --> 00:58:54,159
to just kind of make sure that they're doing things

1210
00:58:54,239 --> 00:58:56,599
the way they're supposed to do things, and you know,

1211
00:58:56,639 --> 00:58:59,840
that type of thing. But what the customers liked about

1212
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:02,400
me is when I did come out there, they were

1213
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:05,679
already pissed off because they got rejected, and so I

1214
00:59:05,719 --> 00:59:08,519
already knew why they were ticked. And you know what,

1215
00:59:08,599 --> 00:59:11,000
even as an inspector, I tell inspectors out there, you

1216
00:59:11,079 --> 00:59:16,119
work for the city. You're a public servant. These people

1217
00:59:16,119 --> 00:59:20,079
out there that pull permits are your customers. You treat

1218
00:59:20,079 --> 00:59:22,679
them the same way. You don't need arrogance as an inspector.

1219
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:24,679
You don't need to shove things in their face. You

1220
00:59:24,719 --> 00:59:26,840
don't need to make things up. You're doing an inspection.

1221
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:30,840
They are your customer. You're getting paid.

1222
00:59:30,519 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 2: Because of that. Now I don't get paid because of that.

1223
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:34,480
I get paid from the city.

1224
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 3: The city's making money off of these inspections. You're getting paid.

1225
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:39,920
You've got to be good stewards of these people.

1226
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:41,239
Speaker 2: And so what I.

1227
00:59:41,199 --> 00:59:42,599
Speaker 3: Used to tell them is when I went out there,

1228
00:59:42,639 --> 00:59:46,559
I was already prepared for them to be upset. So

1229
00:59:46,719 --> 00:59:48,480
I would go out there and I would diffuse it.

1230
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:50,840
I didn't put blame on my inspector. I didn't put

1231
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:52,840
blame on the process. I didn't do anything. I would

1232
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:54,559
sit up there and say, hey, how's it going. They go,

1233
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:56,519
They had already start out pissed off.

1234
00:59:57,119 --> 00:59:58,840
Speaker 2: I've been doing this for thirty years and I have

1235
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:00,760
never had an inspector on me for this. And I

1236
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:01,519
wouldn't say a word.

1237
01:00:01,559 --> 01:00:04,039
Speaker 3: I'd pull out my whole notebook, my journal, and I

1238
01:00:04,079 --> 01:00:08,000
would start taking notes and I go and every now

1239
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:10,119
and then i'd look at them and there's a little

1240
01:00:10,119 --> 01:00:12,400
tip that you do. And those on Instagram that are

1241
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:14,639
watching this, and I don't have very many followers on Instagram,

1242
01:00:14,679 --> 01:00:17,039
I'm recording this while I'm streaming on Instagram, by the way,

1243
01:00:17,079 --> 01:00:19,000
if you didn't know. And I would look at the

1244
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:21,360
customer and always make eye contact, and as they would

1245
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:24,039
say something that they were very passionate about that they

1246
01:00:24,079 --> 01:00:24,719
don't understand.

1247
01:00:24,719 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 2: I've been doing this for thirty years.

1248
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 3: And I'd look at them and I would just took

1249
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:29,840
my fan on my chin like this, and i would

1250
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:31,320
look at him and I'd shake my head at him

1251
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,280
like like I'm agreeing. I'm like, I get you, I

1252
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:36,239
get it, I hear you, I hear you, I hear you.

1253
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:38,199
Speaker 2: I'm feeling you. I'm letting you vent.

1254
01:00:39,079 --> 01:00:41,159
Speaker 3: I already knew what I was going to support my

1255
01:00:41,199 --> 01:00:43,320
inspector because unless they were totally wrong.

1256
01:00:43,079 --> 01:00:45,679
Speaker 2: But I'm letting them vent to me, and I'm making

1257
01:00:45,679 --> 01:00:49,760
a note. Okay, right, thirty years and then they're done.

1258
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 3: And then at the end of it, when they felt

1259
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:53,320
like they were done, they got nothing else to say

1260
01:00:53,559 --> 01:00:57,000
because we had this long, awkward silence. Then I would

1261
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:58,559
look at them and say, okay, let me let me

1262
01:00:58,639 --> 01:01:00,880
see if I let me get some clarification here on it,

1263
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:07,360
because I need to be clear. Now you're upset because

1264
01:01:07,599 --> 01:01:09,599
this or this or this or this or this, and

1265
01:01:09,599 --> 01:01:12,960
they go yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'd go okay. Now

1266
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:16,199
maybe they would say, well, I'm upset because the inspector

1267
01:01:16,199 --> 01:01:18,480
failed me and he didn't give me a code reference. Well,

1268
01:01:19,079 --> 01:01:22,599
the inspectors knew my policy on that. So I would say, okay,

1269
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:25,719
that's fair, that's fair. I would be as frustrated as

1270
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:27,719
you would be. So let's kind of get you that

1271
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:30,800
code reference. Let's see what the reason is. And I'd

1272
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:33,239
asked the inspector and I'd say, what's the where what

1273
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:33,800
are we looking at?

1274
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:35,159
Speaker 2: And maybe the inspector didn't know.

1275
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 3: I mean, I must be fair, but he knew it

1276
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:39,159
was somewhere around there, but he didn't know. When it's okay,

1277
01:01:39,159 --> 01:01:41,679
I'm not going to jump down their throat. I would

1278
01:01:41,719 --> 01:01:46,599
take that disgruntle customer and my inspector. I'd be the liaison.

1279
01:01:46,639 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 2: I'd go and look at it and go, okay, so

1280
01:01:48,559 --> 01:01:50,639
this is is this the issue you talked about? Yeah,

1281
01:01:50,639 --> 01:01:54,199
I'd say okay. Well, I'd say, well that's that's an issue.

1282
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 3: Of three point thirty dot ten US is permitted MC

1283
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:00,039
cable blah blah, oh us is not permitted three and

1284
01:02:00,159 --> 01:02:00,679
say okay.

1285
01:02:01,239 --> 01:02:02,440
Speaker 2: I'd say to the guy and say okay.

1286
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:07,119
Speaker 3: So it is possible that an inspector like this never

1287
01:02:07,159 --> 01:02:10,239
failed you for this because maybe they just didn't know.

1288
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:13,679
And I can understand that. Again, there's a lot of

1289
01:02:13,719 --> 01:02:15,599
codes to learn in the code. I mean, we're talking

1290
01:02:15,679 --> 01:02:19,199
thousands of codes to learn, and I get it. It's

1291
01:02:19,239 --> 01:02:21,599
frustrating as hell because you need to know what you

1292
01:02:21,679 --> 01:02:24,000
need to know to fix right. It's only fair, right,

1293
01:02:24,519 --> 01:02:26,440
And they go, yeah, that's right, that's right, and I'm like,

1294
01:02:27,039 --> 01:02:28,960
I'm going to make sure you get your code reference.

1295
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 2: I didn't overrule my inspector.

1296
01:02:32,079 --> 01:02:35,440
Speaker 3: I helped my inspector out and if it was legitimate,

1297
01:02:35,519 --> 01:02:38,000
there was it. Now have I had a situation where

1298
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,519
I got out there, and again people are saying, how

1299
01:02:40,519 --> 01:02:41,920
do we get to this when it comes to dealing

1300
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:45,760
with customers, because the customer is the person that we

1301
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:46,760
were doing the inspection for.

1302
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:48,039
Speaker 2: They're the customer.

1303
01:02:49,119 --> 01:02:52,480
Speaker 3: And I would say to him, I'm like, okay, if

1304
01:02:52,519 --> 01:02:54,920
the guy failed them, I'm using this as an example.

1305
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:57,719
If a guy failed them and he didn't give a

1306
01:02:57,719 --> 01:02:59,679
code reference and I was out there, I got called

1307
01:02:59,679 --> 01:03:01,400
out there because a lot of times they won't argue it,

1308
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:05,400
they'll just say whatever. But if I got caught out

1309
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:08,079
there and I found out that that wasn't actually a

1310
01:03:08,119 --> 01:03:15,239
code violation and my inspector wrote it down, I never, ever, ever, ever,

1311
01:03:16,559 --> 01:03:22,079
ever disrespect my inspector in front of the customer. I

1312
01:03:22,159 --> 01:03:25,079
never ever do that with an employee in front of

1313
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:27,519
a customer. I don't do it in front of his helper.

1314
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:30,159
I don't do master, elector, I don't do it. I

1315
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:34,599
take them to the side, and I respect this situation,

1316
01:03:34,679 --> 01:03:38,960
and I use every situation as a learning situation. That's

1317
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,239
why employees used to love working for me, is I'm

1318
01:03:41,239 --> 01:03:44,800
not going to disrespect them in the middle of anything.

1319
01:03:45,239 --> 01:03:47,599
I am going to make sure that I gave them

1320
01:03:47,599 --> 01:03:51,960
a solution to the problem. Okay, a solution to the problem.

1321
01:03:52,599 --> 01:03:56,480
So again that's what I was looking for, okay. So

1322
01:03:56,599 --> 01:03:59,480
that's how I would address the issue. And basically I

1323
01:03:59,519 --> 01:04:02,760
would tell the customer if it wasn't a I'm not

1324
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:03,880
going to uphold.

1325
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:05,679
Speaker 2: A violation that wasn't actually a violation.

1326
01:04:06,199 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 3: So I would take my inspector to the side and

1327
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:12,480
I would say, you know, this isn't a violation. I

1328
01:04:12,559 --> 01:04:15,199
get it, and it's it's understanding. Maybe we'll have a

1329
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:18,239
lesson back in the office and we'll go over this.

1330
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:20,119
And because I'm sure others would want to know this

1331
01:04:20,199 --> 01:04:22,119
of our inspector, so me, it's I make it a

1332
01:04:22,199 --> 01:04:22,639
learning thing.

1333
01:04:22,679 --> 01:04:25,719
Speaker 2: I did not jump down their throat, okay. Uh.

1334
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:29,719
Speaker 3: And I encouraged them to be specific about something. You

1335
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:31,960
can't fail somebody unless you have a reference. It just

1336
01:04:32,599 --> 01:04:34,559
is what it is. So then i'd go back to

1337
01:04:34,599 --> 01:04:37,400
the customer and I would tell them I'm like, okay,

1338
01:04:37,559 --> 01:04:40,199
if this was the only violation, then I would override it,

1339
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:42,760
and I would say okay, I talked to him, But

1340
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:44,480
I never said it in a way that it made

1341
01:04:44,519 --> 01:04:46,360
the inspector look bad like they were Oh, they were

1342
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:49,159
just wrong. They just because it could go wrong quickly

1343
01:04:49,199 --> 01:04:51,599
with the customer, especially if they're a contractor that does

1344
01:04:51,639 --> 01:04:53,800
a lot of work, and they're like, well, that inspector's

1345
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:56,960
always making up bogus shit. So what I would say

1346
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:59,760
to the customer, I'd say, you know what, I'm going

1347
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:03,199
to override this for this specific issue. Now, there may

1348
01:05:03,199 --> 01:05:05,320
be other things in there that you still have to correct,

1349
01:05:06,039 --> 01:05:07,920
but this one, I mean, I'm gonna override this one

1350
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:10,199
because I understand it, I feel you, and this is

1351
01:05:10,239 --> 01:05:12,320
a giver or take scenario, and I can use this

1352
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:15,599
one and spin it to create a good relationship with

1353
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:17,760
the with the customer in this case, the contractor, I

1354
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:19,760
can say, you know, and I'll remove this one. So

1355
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:21,079
this was not an issue and if that was the

1356
01:05:21,119 --> 01:05:23,400
only thing, you're good to go. Uh, the inspector will

1357
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:25,960
issue a passing ticket and you're good to go. We all,

1358
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:28,559
you know, we can all go with that. If there's

1359
01:05:28,679 --> 01:05:30,920
other things wrong in here, then I use that opportunity

1360
01:05:31,039 --> 01:05:32,840
to say, well, you still got some issues on here.

1361
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:35,199
And uh, again, is there any of these that you're

1362
01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:37,800
unfamiliar with or you don't agree with? I am more

1363
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:39,960
than happy to listen to you. And how do you

1364
01:05:40,039 --> 01:05:42,199
think we should resolve this? Because you know, we can't just.

1365
01:05:42,159 --> 01:05:44,159
Speaker 2: Get rid of these things because we have a minimum

1366
01:05:44,159 --> 01:05:46,360
safety standard that we have to follow. Uh.

1367
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:49,360
Speaker 3: And again, as an inspector, we have liabilities. Now people

1368
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:52,440
think we're immune to everything, but we're not. Miss Visus

1369
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:54,679
and mouth Visus and non Jesus. So how do we

1370
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:56,960
make this right? Because again, my job, my guys are

1371
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:00,840
just doing their job. Dude, it one hundred of the time,

1372
01:06:01,239 --> 01:06:04,159
one percent of the time diffuse the situation. And the

1373
01:06:04,199 --> 01:06:06,480
guy was like, oh, it's no problem, misda Abernathy, I'll

1374
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:10,199
fix those other things. I appreciate that, and then I

1375
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:17,119
left and everybody's happy it. Everything can be resolved. It

1376
01:06:17,159 --> 01:06:18,800
doesn't have to go to a tit for tat and

1377
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:20,280
a pissing contest.

1378
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:20,800
Speaker 2: It doesn't.

1379
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:23,360
Speaker 3: So think of the bigger picture and it's going to build.

1380
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:26,239
It's going to strengthen your reputation if you go with

1381
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:29,440
that approach. Ken, we're in business to make money. We

1382
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,280
don't want to lose a customer. It's too costly for

1383
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:33,960
us to get that customer. Hell I don't want to

1384
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:34,760
lose a customer.

1385
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:36,119
Speaker 2: So we have to think.

1386
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:39,840
Speaker 3: About those things now. Always remember to do a call

1387
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:40,320
to action.

1388
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:44,639
Speaker 2: Okay. The call to action for you is to make

1389
01:06:44,679 --> 01:06:45,760
sure you meet.

1390
01:06:46,199 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 3: With your people, meet with your customer, with your employees.

1391
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:51,760
If you're an electrical contractor, or if you're one man

1392
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:56,079
or one woman show, come up with possible solutions. That's

1393
01:06:56,119 --> 01:07:00,519
your call to action. Come up with possible solution to

1394
01:07:00,599 --> 01:07:03,920
engage possible issues. Think of yourself, Think of something that

1395
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:07,079
you've been unhappy with, So think of solution. If somebody

1396
01:07:07,079 --> 01:07:10,079
says I don't agree with your pricing, come up with

1397
01:07:10,079 --> 01:07:12,559
a solution that you can a canned response that you

1398
01:07:12,599 --> 01:07:14,880
can say that you can practice. That says, well, I

1399
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:18,679
feel like you're taking too long. Those type of things,

1400
01:07:18,719 --> 01:07:23,679
you know, come up with solutions and constantly think of solutions.

1401
01:07:23,719 --> 01:07:27,599
That you can use when a conflict may arise. Okay,

1402
01:07:28,679 --> 01:07:31,360
if you're a few minutes late to a project and

1403
01:07:31,559 --> 01:07:33,000
you told a customer that you're going to be there

1404
01:07:33,039 --> 01:07:35,880
at eight o'clock and you're there at eight ten, that

1405
01:07:36,079 --> 01:07:37,519
is already a bad impression.

1406
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:40,639
Speaker 2: Okay, so you need to be there before.

1407
01:07:40,679 --> 01:07:42,480
Speaker 3: If the appointments at eight, you need to be there,

1408
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:44,679
you know, five minutes, ten minutes before eight?

1409
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 2: Do you ready? Okay? Looking professional?

1410
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 3: But if you are late, I tell people automatically, don't.

1411
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:55,000
The elephant in the room is something that I tell

1412
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:57,480
the electricians to get out of the way up front.

1413
01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:00,559
Remember I said, be clear in your scope, being clear

1414
01:08:00,559 --> 01:08:03,159
on what you're there to do, be clear on the

1415
01:08:03,599 --> 01:08:07,119
time frames and everything. Also be clear that you're late.

1416
01:08:08,679 --> 01:08:10,639
I always going to say first thing. I'll use that

1417
01:08:10,679 --> 01:08:14,760
as an icebreaker. I'll say, hi, Paul with Abernathy Electricsurvesys.

1418
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:18,319
Look at first, I gotta apologize. I was supposed to

1419
01:08:18,359 --> 01:08:20,640
be here at eight. You don't even have to go in.

1420
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:23,680
Why just say I was supposed to be here at eight.

1421
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:26,199
Situation came up and then I was running a little late.

1422
01:08:26,279 --> 01:08:28,840
I want to tell you that I apologize for that

1423
01:08:29,079 --> 01:08:33,760
and uh that again. I had all intended purposes to

1424
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:36,039
be here right at eight o'clock, and so I'm ready

1425
01:08:36,039 --> 01:08:40,359
to go. Now, is there you know, is there anything

1426
01:08:40,399 --> 01:08:42,079
that you want? Are you okay with the fact that

1427
01:08:42,119 --> 01:08:42,960
I'm a little bit late?

1428
01:08:43,119 --> 01:08:43,800
Speaker 2: We are? We good?

1429
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:46,560
Speaker 3: We want me to continue on, and I understand if

1430
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:49,800
you don't want me, that's just an icebreaker, and they'll go.

1431
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:52,720
Speaker 2: No, I'm fine, we're good, We're fine. That type of thing.

1432
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:54,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you get one guy that's really you know,

1433
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:58,079
his times, his his thing, and he goes, I'm busy, God,

1434
01:08:58,119 --> 01:08:59,920
ten minutes late. I mean, I got things I gotta do.

1435
01:09:00,119 --> 01:09:02,439
You're wasting my time. That's when you got to learn

1436
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:03,000
to have.

1437
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:05,119
Speaker 2: Empathy and go. I get it. I hate it. I

1438
01:09:05,159 --> 01:09:06,159
hate when people are late.

1439
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:09,239
Speaker 3: I did everything in my power to get here on time,

1440
01:09:09,279 --> 01:09:11,760
and it just ran late. You know, it just seems

1441
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:14,479
like I just I just couldn't get here at that

1442
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:16,159
eight o'clock and again, but I got here as quick

1443
01:09:16,159 --> 01:09:17,520
as I can and again.

1444
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 2: But I'm sorry.

1445
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:21,680
Speaker 3: I apologize for that, and I would I promise you

1446
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:24,159
if we do work here in the future, I would

1447
01:09:24,399 --> 01:09:26,600
do I will make every effort to be here on time.

1448
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 2: If not earlier again. I you know, it's.

1449
01:09:29,319 --> 01:09:32,359
Speaker 3: Okay to say you're sorry cause you know what, at

1450
01:09:32,399 --> 01:09:33,560
the end of the day, you were late.

1451
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:38,760
Speaker 2: You were late. Suck it up, butter cup.

1452
01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:42,319
Speaker 3: But I use that as an icebreaker because the first

1453
01:09:42,319 --> 01:09:45,039
thing on their mind is not that they were going

1454
01:09:45,079 --> 01:09:45,439
to pay you.

1455
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:46,760
Speaker 2: But the first thing on my mind is wasn't this

1456
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:49,479
guy supposed here at eight o'clock and now it's eight ten.

1457
01:09:50,279 --> 01:09:52,079
Speaker 3: I'm getting that ediphone out of the room right away,

1458
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:55,920
out of the way. Address it, kill it with kindness

1459
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:56,399
right away.

1460
01:09:57,680 --> 01:09:58,159
Speaker 2: All right.

1461
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:03,399
Speaker 3: That's it, folks. That's just my tips on how to disgruntle.

1462
01:10:03,399 --> 01:10:04,960
We do a lot of one on ones When I

1463
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:07,039
come out to companies and they want me to do

1464
01:10:07,119 --> 01:10:09,119
disgruntal training, or they want me to do the soft

1465
01:10:09,159 --> 01:10:10,880
skills and things like that. We do some one on

1466
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:13,960
one interactions and I have some little scripts that we

1467
01:10:14,039 --> 01:10:18,399
follow with the customer. With your employees, it kind of

1468
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:21,680
gets funny. It's fun, and then they kind of realize

1469
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:25,000
how important they are to the company. That they're not

1470
01:10:25,159 --> 01:10:28,720
just an employee. They're the lifeblood of the company. And

1471
01:10:29,039 --> 01:10:31,800
the owner may be the heart, but the employees are

1472
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:35,079
the veins. They keep it running, so the heart keeps

1473
01:10:35,079 --> 01:10:39,439
it pumping, the veins keep carrying it back. Everything is

1474
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:42,319
circular going through the body, so they all work together.

1475
01:10:42,399 --> 01:10:44,760
So don't take your employees for granted, but teach them

1476
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:47,560
the skills. Don't expect them to have the skills. Teach

1477
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:50,279
them the skills. These are things that can be taught.

1478
01:10:51,279 --> 01:10:53,199
I can give you tips on how to take that

1479
01:10:53,239 --> 01:10:58,439
frustration and bite the lip and realize that. People say

1480
01:10:58,479 --> 01:11:01,880
I don't kiss anybody's ass, You're not kissing anybody's ass.

1481
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:06,439
All you're doing is preserving the customer and preserving the

1482
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:08,119
relationship the.

1483
01:11:08,079 --> 01:11:08,800
Speaker 2: Moment you leave.

1484
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:10,279
Speaker 3: If you want to scream at the top of your lungs,

1485
01:11:10,319 --> 01:11:14,520
you do whatever you want, but not why you're injecting

1486
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:15,239
with the customer.

1487
01:11:15,319 --> 01:11:15,920
Speaker 2: That type of thing.

1488
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:18,399
Speaker 3: Okay, And people say the customer is always right. That

1489
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:21,199
is not true. The customer is not always right. But

1490
01:11:21,239 --> 01:11:23,720
you don't have to go out of your way to

1491
01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:26,960
make them know that they're not right. There's a tactful

1492
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:29,399
way to do this, folks, all right, and that's our

1493
01:11:29,439 --> 01:11:31,479
soft skills training and we have that. If you're interested

1494
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:33,960
in that, reach out to our office. We'd love to come.

1495
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:34,199
Speaker 2: We do.

1496
01:11:34,279 --> 01:11:36,760
Speaker 3: Value doesn't matter whether you have one hundred employees or

1497
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:40,399
one thousand employees or five employees. We give enough tips

1498
01:11:41,159 --> 01:11:44,640
to help that type of thing. All right, all right, folks,

1499
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:46,760
that's all we've got for today. Thanks for joining me

1500
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:50,159
on this podcast. If you love what you hear and

1501
01:11:50,199 --> 01:11:51,880
you want to listen to our podcast, remember you can

1502
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:54,239
listen over at fast tracks Tube. The podcasts are over

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01:11:54,279 --> 01:11:56,680
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1504
01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:59,760
You can get it at anycchat dot com that's NEC.

1505
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:03,680
Or you can go to our website fast track System

1506
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:09,600
that's tracks trx fasttrackssystem dot com and you go to

1507
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:11,600
the navigation you'll see mobile app. You can get it

1508
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:14,119
there for free. You can we have a chat feature

1509
01:12:14,119 --> 01:12:15,920
on there. We have the blogs you can get too

1510
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:19,880
quickly on there. We have resources calculators for use in

1511
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:22,680
the field on there. We've got so many freebies on

1512
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:25,359
there that we're not trying to charge you for that stuff.

1513
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:28,479
We just want to help you out. So until next time, folks,

1514
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:30,479
stay safe, God blessed. We'll catch you on a next

1515
01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:32,159
episode a Master of the NEEC.

1516
01:12:33,239 --> 01:12:36,600
Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning into another electrifying episode of the Master

1517
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:40,840
the NC podcast we hope you're feeling more powered up

1518
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:43,399
and ready to tackle the electrical world with the knowledge

1519
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:48,319
and confidence you need to succeed. Remember, in the electrical grade,

1520
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:51,199
knowledge is power, and we're here to make sure you

1521
01:12:51,239 --> 01:12:55,680
stay flogged into the latest inside chips and code updates.

1522
01:12:56,239 --> 01:13:00,199
If you enjoy today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave

1523
01:13:00,239 --> 01:13:02,880
us a review, and share the podcast with your fellow

1524
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:08,560
electricians and industry pros. Until next time, keep your tools sharp,

1525
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:12,199
your circuits clear, and you're my focused because here at

1526
01:13:12,199 --> 01:13:15,560
the Master of the NEEC podcast, we're all about sparking

1527
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:21,680
your success. Stay safe, stay smart, and keep mastering the trade.

1528
01:13:22,319 --> 01:13:25,079
From all of us here at Electrical Code Academy, thank

1529
01:13:25,119 --> 01:13:27,039
you for all your support and we will see you

1530
01:13:27,079 --> 01:13:33,319
on the next amazing Master of the NEC podcast episode.