Speaker 1: The paranormal, dufos, monsters, mysteries that you're listening to Talking
Weird and Know from a Kevin deep in the northwards
your host, Doctor Dean.
Speaker 2: Bertram, Greetings, or my fellow weirdos and weird AD's, welcome
to Talking Weird on the Untold Radio Network. I'm your host,
Dean Bertram, and as always, I'm delighted and grateful that
you've decided to spend the next hour or so of
your life with me. Whether you're watching or listening live
when it goes out every Thursday night, nine Central, across
YouTube and Facebook and x So, maybe you're listening on
watching to it archived on one of those sites later
and after our live date, or perhaps you're listening to
the show where it drops every Friday following our Thursday
night live broadcast on almost every podcast platform in the
known universe. Greetings, welcome. I'm glad to have you here.
I'm not going to ramble too much tonight because I
think my wonderful guests and I are going to have
way too much to talk about, so I'm just gonna
go straight into her introduction. She's been involved in the
world of paranormal phenomenon for over twenty years. Her story
began with a great great grandfather, doctor Albert Durant Watson,
who was the president of the Association for Psychical Research
of Canada in nineteen eighteen, which was one of the
first paranormal associations developed in Canadian history and I imagine
one of the earliest in all of North America. Co
founding and leading Entity Seeker Paranormal Research and Teachings in
two thousand and three. Her experiences and knowledge has led
to researching and co creating a unique investigative program called
Teaching the Living, and subsequently has been featured on and
hosted numerous specials and TV shows, and she's a big
part of a recent Small Town Monsters production, which we
might talk about a little bit tonight because I really
like it and I know it's widely available now. She
is a producer for various podcasts and television projects, both
national and international. Her work has been presented at the
Ryan Research Center, and she is a host and a
featured presenter at the Parapsychological Association. She's also taught her
program in Parapsychology Teaching the Living at various post secondary
institutions in Canada, including fifteen years as a guest professor
at Northwest College in the psychology Social Work programs. She's
a regular contributor to the UK's Haunted magazine, which can
be found on newsstands internationally. She can also be heard
on her podcast Supernatural Circumstances, which is just amazing and
if you don't listen to what you should. I was
lucky enough to guest on it again the other day,
and it's an episode which will next week, and we'll
talk a little bit about that tonight as well, because
we don't want to step on some of the same
subject matter which we dove into extensively on that episode,
and Supernatural Circumstances delves into the mysterious, the spiritual, and
the fascinating things in our universe. So I am delighted
to welcome back to Talking Weird my very good friend
Morgan Knutson.
Speaker 3: It is good to be here.
Speaker 2: It's so funny. We hadn't talked on a show for
later and it must have been a year or more,
and then all of a sudden, we've done two shows
almost back to back this week.
Speaker 4: It was meant to be. It was meant to be
it was the right time. This was absolutely the right time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was, and we as I was just saying,
we we don't want to retread that because I'd encourage
people to go and listen to that show anyway, because
we spoke extensively about disclosure, which we're going to be
touching on denied, but we're going to be touching on
it from a slightly different angle. I thought, because you
had the great idea to talk about alien contact, UFO contact,
in contact with the other and talk about how that
intersects with our own human consciousness. And we've thrown back
and forward a few like clips of Whitley, Streeber and
other people, and perhaps this idea that while we're waiting
for a disclosure from the government or many people are,
maybe the real secrets, maybe the real revelations are going
to come through, not from some official channel pumping out
lord knows what kind of misinformation, but maybe through genuine
contacts with whatever these other intelligences are. So I think
what I'd like to throw to you to begin with
is your idea of contact and not just with UFOs,
with other intelligences. Perhaps it's all you know manifesting from
the same greater intelligence and how you think that interacts
with our human consciousness.
Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, I mean there's so there's so much to
talk about with the subject. Like it's so exciting to
me because for years I was I was very much
in the camp early on in my career that this
that you and aliens belonged in a different category from parapsychology.
That was kind of the overall thought process. I think
of a lot of people, especially a lot of people
in my field and things.
Speaker 2: Like that, and.
Speaker 4: That opinion has drastically changed over the last.
Speaker 3: Number of years.
Speaker 4: And you know, one of the principal principal questions in parapsychology.
Speaker 3: Was posed very early on.
Speaker 4: It's known as the hard problem by David Chalmers many people,
I mean, I know you know about it. For the audience,
the idea was is consciousness fundamental or is it emergent?
Speaker 3: So what does that mean?
Speaker 4: In layman's terms, it means is consciousness coming from the
brain or is it actually fundamental from the universe and
our brains are actually translating that consciousness, which would put
into perspective things like life after death and so on
and so forth. So where I think this conversation has
gone with this. The the idea now of you know,
what are aliens? Now it's kind of on the forefront
of everybody's mind, is that there are many psychologists and
physicists and parapsychologists that are coming out and saying this
isn't about little green men. This is about something much
broader and that these subject matters, whether it be UFOs, UAPs,
the alien contact, spirit contact, all of this stuff, it's
actually emmeshed into one broader subject. And to me, that
is really really exciting to see where exactly this is going.
And there's a lot of people that have got some
a little bit strange ideas about it, but you know,
we can we talk about that later.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember reading and this this is only vaguely related,
but I remember reading a book that was very popular
in new age and alternative thinking models back in the
nineties called The Holographic Universe, and it presents this model
you're obviously familiar with it. It presents this model based on
things that people working in high ends of physics as
well as high ends of psychology. We're talking about that
the brain seems to work as a hologram. In other words,
when they say that they mean holographic film. When you
cut into lots of little pieces, it isn't like cutting
normal negative film into lots of little pieces. You can
still see a degraded reality of the whole from those
lots of little pieces. And physicists were suggesting that, So
this is what some psychologists were suggesting the human mind
works like this, And there was all kinds of studies
which suggested this to the way, and we could get
we won't go into it because there's a whole other
rabbit hole, but physicists were suggesting something similar, and that
is that reality itself is somehow like a hologram in
meaning that in the in the minuscule is perhaps a
sense of the whole. And you hear that in a
lot of earlier esoteric type languages well like you know
as above, so below all these ideas in alchemy of
somehow there being a sense of a sense of a
broader knowledge, a broader reality being being able to be
accessed at a very small level. And I wonder when
I when I hear like today I sent you a
Whitley streetboat clip that I saw when I when I
hear stream but maybe correctly talking about the ets er
after our souls. What that makes me think of is
maybe our souls themselves are part of this. And when
I say soul, whether you're religious or whether you want
to look at from a new age perspective, I don't
think it matters our consciousness, which exists, as you were
suggesting before, perhaps outside and above the body. Maybe that
is intertwined with the abduction experience, with seeing lights in
the sky, with seeing the blessed Virgin Mary, with seeing
you know, fairies, with whatever these phenomena are. Maybe we
ourselves are part of that. We might be separate from it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think you touched on a bunch
of things there that are are great. And you know,
one of the best analogies that I always heard of
when we were talking about anything to do with the
soul is that people have this idea that the soul
is inside the body, when it's actually our body is
inside the soul.
Speaker 3: And I always really.
Speaker 4: Loved that that idea and that concept is that we're
actually inside of that. It's it's it's us, it's all
around us, it's everything. And I think with this particular
subject matter like it, it begins to blend on a
number of different levels with with what you were talking about,
and you know, this this idea I think of, uh,
And then I've heard and I've heard that that comment
from a number of people around just the idea that
you know, they're after our soul somehow, Well, that that
implies that the soul is something apart from us, and
that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me.
And if if consciousness is you know, is indeed fundamental,
which I'm I'm definitely on the side that that's what
it is, that it is actually part of the universe,
then that that is too, you know, that consciousess is too.
Whatever they're interacting with and talking with, they're not in
the fringe of this, you know, they're they're a piece
of that that greater hole also, so you know, and
of course my backgrounds in parapsychology, so like to me,
the idea of losing your life or losing you, I
don't I don't think you can lose something that you are.
You are life, you are a consciousness, you are all
of that. So you can't really I don't think something
can come in and take something that is inherently something
that it's also part of like to me, that doesn't
just just from a philosophy standpoint, it doesn't make sense
to me, But from the scientific standpoint, you look at
a lot of psychologists and and whatnot and physicists that
are coming up with with genuine scientific conclusions about this.
Like earlier I was, I was mentioning to you doctor
Donald Hoffman, and he's for for the audience who doesn't
know who he is, definitely look him up as his
work is really interesting. Uh. He's a cognitive psychologist from
the States, and he came up with some really really
really interesting theories, one being the interface theory of perception.
And the interface theory of perception is exactly being like
what you were talking about where you've got your your
The idea is that we're working in some kind of
like not necessarily like hologround maybe holograms kind of the
wrong word, but the idea that we're we're interacting within
an interface that our consciousness is projecting. So that then
begs the question, if there are these these intelligences that
are out there, what role do they have to play
in that you know, or is this like full blown
matrix where they are able to kind of like reach
in and play around or is this more like, you know,
we're part and parcel with co creating an environment with them.
Speaker 2: I'm very I'm very sympathetic to any kind of co
creation model because the type of eupologists that formed my
later post extraterrestrial kind of belief system, the John Keels
and the Jacques Vallet, suggested that we had something to
do with what we were, you know, engaged with. Greg
Bishop wrote a wonderful piece in the late Robbie Grahames
collected works of other writers called that book's called UFOs,
reframing the debate, and Greg Bishop, who's I think one
of the better thinkers in the euthological space today, wrote
this wonderful piece about co creation theory. That may be
what we're seeing, how we're engaging with the other, and
probably in this case we're talking about UFOs, but I
think it applies to whenever we talk about other you know,
non human anomalous intelligence. Somehow we are having a degree
of input to what that experience is, which makes sense
this communication with something on a on another level with us.
So Will I just wanted to point out there's a
bunch of people in the chat which which is wonderful,
all kinds of people, Squatch, Mama, Ken Rock, my own
wonderful girlfriend Samanth. And here's a regular listener to the show,
Flat Rockland, also known as Matt Auckland, who's been on
the show Super Weird. We always have weird synchronicities, Flat
and Eye And he says, I'm reading the holographic universe
right now, Dean, what are the chances there's no accidents? No, no, no,
there really aren't. So I think I mean to me,
I often and I think this is one of the problems.
I know you don't suffer from this problem. So many
people in our space do is because they look at
all of this as being so separate from us. They
don't understand that the importance of a lot of this
contact might tell us as much about us as it
does about you know, the other. We're always focused on,
you know, what is the bigfoot? What is the dog man?
What is the alien? What is the fairy? What is
the ghost? You know what I mean? But I wonder
if we would be better turning the lens around and
asking what do these encounters tell us about us?
Speaker 4: That you're spot on and ian that's interest, you know,
where parapsychology has really, i think begun to merge into.
I mean, it's always been part and parcel with things
like like physics and quantum physics and stuff like that,
but it's becoming more and more apparent now you know
in the field research that that's exactly what we need
to be doing. When I authored my program with my
business partner Stephanie Wurtz years ago, it's just almost twenty
five years ago, that was the one thing that we
noticed really really quickly was that the phenomenon that was
going on around people was part and parcel completely connected
with exactly what was going on with them emotionally. And
we were not the only ones to come to this conclusion.
Speaker 3: Look at people like.
Speaker 4: Scott Rogo, lots of different researchers.
Speaker 3: Now my brain's just.
Speaker 4: Lost the name, but William Roll, sorry, doctor William Roll.
You know, many of these people that have been amount
in parapsychology for years began to notice that with the
phenomenon of like a poltergeist phenomenon and psychokinesis and things
like that, is that that people's emotions were directly tied
to what was actually happening in their experience and Stephanie
and I found the same. We began to teach that
really really early on. And at the time when we
started that was like to it was almost too.
Speaker 3: Much for people, Like they were going, well, what are.
Speaker 4: You talking about, Like this is all happening to me, No,
a lot of it's happening through you. And when they
were able to actually start to regulate what was going
on with them, suddenly a lot of the phenomenon, the
things that were going on around them began to shift
and change. And it wasn't because of some you know,
magic wand that was happening. It was simply because they
were shifting into essentially like a new reality. I mean,
we we know now that we're changing realities a billion
times a second. And when we start to shift our
emotional state and you make these different choices, suddenly our
surroundings begin to change as well. And this has been
documented in so many studies over the years in parapsychology.
So I think it only makes sense at this point that,
you know, we really take a hard look at people
like John Keel like you were mentioning, and begin to look.
Speaker 3: At this phenomenon as something that.
Speaker 4: Is already connected to us, and now I think, really
it's just a matter of breaking the habit of our
minds of going there's an out there versus an in
here that's we know. Now, that's really not how it
works at all.
Speaker 2: I think a lot and I kin't agree with you
more on any of that stuff. I think a lot
of the euphological communities hopes or then placing so much,
so much of their energy in looking for disclosure and
hoping that the government is gonna, you know, we talk
about this a lot on your show, you know, essentially
tell them what they already believe. If what we're talking
about is closer to the actual, you know, reality of
this phenomenon, then I wonder what there is that the
government can tell us anyway. To be honest, I think it's.
Speaker 3: A really good, really good point.
Speaker 4: And you know, I think at the end of the day,
you know, if if they're holding anything back, which guarantee
they are, uh, you know, if they're holding anything back.
I think it revolves around this idea of consciousness and
the idea of we have to shift how we're perceiving things.
And I can tell you for people that I've dealt with,
clients that I've dealt with.
Speaker 3: Heck, I was dealing with one.
Speaker 4: Today who really really really struggle with the idea that
this actually is really interconnected with with how we're how
we're perceiving things, how we're doing things. And I think
for people who are very, very very attached to this,
whether it be a religious standpoint or an ideological standpoint
as to how this phenomenon works, this could really.
Speaker 3: Make some people crash out. It's it's hard.
Speaker 4: It's hard for people even with I don't want to
say basic like haunting, poultrygeist type phenomenon, to get their
heads around this, but it to turn around and say,
this isn't happening to you. You've got a position here,
You're there's no matter how flight you make a pancake,
there's always two sides, as doctor Reville says, But that's
really really true, is that you do. You are interlocked
into what you're experiencing. So I think if there's anything
that is being kept, it's it's probably along those lines
that it's it's some sort of ideological or mental shift
that people are going to have to make that some
people are going to just not deal with very well.
Speaker 2: Do you think you mentioned religion then which I think
is interconnected with a lot of this. Do you do
you think earlier, like pre modern traditions, be them folkloric
or you know, any religion around the planet, or any
any type of I suppose, magical belief system, or do
you think any of the things from our past, whatever
culture you know, our heritage is in, do you think
some of those traditions were somehow closer to understanding the
type of reality that we might be operating in. And
the very scientistic interpretations that all of the different branches
of the paranormal you know again, cryptozoolga uthology, even spect
hunting the day they all tend to lean into the
science these days.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And you know,
I think in most religions, not all, but most religions,
I think you can see a red thread through a
lot of them that that talk about this, Like, you know,
even delving into for like the Bible, for instance, you
get the one passage, uh, if I pray, pray, believe
it is yours and it will be so. Even passages
like that really dictate the idea that you know, if you,
if you meditate on it, you believe it and you
focus upon it and you believe it's already yours. It's gonna,
it's gonna happen for you. Like there's there's definitely there's
there's threads through so many different cultures in regards to
not only the idea that we're creating our reality as
we go, but also that there is a greater connection
to to something else. And I think all sorts of
religions have come up with what that is, and there's
tons of stories in and around it, but it's it
is a common thread that everybody's going, you know, we
are connected to something bigger, there's something else that's out there.
And then I mean, not to mention, you get into
you know, hieroglyphs and things like that that people have
found of you know that people can't explain strange drawings,
you know, gods that have been worshiped over the years,
so on and so forth. Like I think people throughout
history have been trying to grasp this, you know, and
now in our present day it's coming out as well.
If we if we can grasp it through disclosure, if
we can grasp it through the government, then.
Speaker 3: We'll get it. That's what it is.
Speaker 4: That's what we're missing, and I don't think people are
going to find it externally.
Speaker 3: I just I just don't.
Speaker 4: And I think if, as I say, if anything's being
being sort of kept back, I think that's probably what
it is.
Speaker 2: Well, I think we both agree that so much of
this is, you know, a product of our own psyche
or our own consciousness, or our own way we you know,
interconnect with something bigger. What what do you think if
there are external intelligences, if there in any sense separate
to us. Do you think there's benevolent and you know,
or some malevolent intelligences. Do you think there's multiple or
multiple forces or or multiple energies which you know, which
impact us when we when we're connecting with the other,
or were always connecting with the best part of us
or the best part of other things? Or is there
is there negativity that is part of some of this
contact experience as well?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 4: I could tell you what I've learned in parapsychology, because
I mean, God knows what's out there. I don't know,
you know, I'm the first to say I have you know,
I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't have the answers.
Speaker 4: But I can tell you in in parapsychology. What I've
learned and what I've what I've written about for years,
which is that when we're in a negative space, if
we're in a negative headspace perpetually and we're not dealing
with trauma, we're not dealing with stuff that's going on
in our lives, you know, and processing it. Not that
we can always have a you know, zipped duty positive life.
That's not realistic, but how we're managing it and how
we're going through our day. What's a general energy we
have going through our day that absolutely contributes to the
phenomenon people are experiencing that I can say for sure,
you know, everything from you know, people that have had
For example, I had a client years ago who had
was in a severely abusive relationship and had gotten out
of that relationship, gotten into another one, not dealt with
any of the emotional stuff that had happened prior, and
it was really traumatic. And what was interesting was that
the paranormal activity that was going on in and around
her after that was a direct reflection of the trauma
that she had just experienced, except now it was no
longer a human abuser. It was it seemed like it
was almost this sort of thought form that was creating
the same phenomena. So and again it was a matter
of of like, okay, how are you going to shift
to pull yourself? Apart from that, it's not about fighting
the thing you can't see. You can't you don't have
control over that, but you do have control over your
own state and how you can shift out of that.
You know, almost like a radio dial, you're turning a
radio dial off on and you know, up and down
different frequencies.
Speaker 3: And I think when it.
Speaker 4: Comes to this stuff, you know, and I haven't done
extensive research into the you know, the abduction side of stuff,
or you know, it's not really my wheelhouse, but I
would imagine that there's probably a tie in there as well,
that there's something going on. And I'm not turning around
and saying that this is in people's heads. That's not
at all what I'm saying whatsoever. But where you are
really does begin to shape what your what experiences that
you're that you're having. And we definitely see it with
paranormal phenomenon like hauntings and stuff like that. So if
we're making that assumption that you know that phenomenon as
well as the uap UFO phenomenon and alien phenomenons tied
in together. I would think that those rules probably still apply.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fascinating. And I on the poltergeist thing. Obviously
it's almost a cliche, but the idea that a teenageer
going through certain you know, changes in their biology and
changes in their moods are often at the heart of
poltergeist activity as well, which does suggest that somehow our
own space, our own thoughts are somehow interconnected with this,
and this might we might have already gone part way
to answering this question, but I'll throw it to you anyway.
Squatch Mama, thank you for being here. You're a regular listener.
We appreciate your regular viewer. Do you think environmental factors
can also trigger a contact or experience, a siding or
a shift in perception?
Speaker 3: She asks, such a great question.
Speaker 4: You know, I think there are certain environmental factors that
seem to play into I would say, not necessarily what
people experience, but what's going on within within the environment itself,
that is that might be generating some of this stuff,
Like I've noticed after well, you were mentioning my my
podcast Supernatural circumstances. I've had so many guests on and
myself included, that have found these really bizarre like hot
spots for lack of a better word, where there's really
strange environmental anomalies that seem to be associated with them.
You know, I had on my friend Brandon Elvis, we
were talking about the Kentucky Triangle. Mike Rexxiker had on
talking about the Alaska Triangle. I've had really weird experiences
right here in Alberta, just sort of the same, the
same idea where there's been bizarre levels of electromagnetic fields
that aren't accounted for, people reporting things like portals, people
reporting cryptid encounters, lights and the sky. So there seems
to be something about certain areas that seem to be
as a lack of a better word, like hotspots for
some of this stuff. You know why that is, I
don't think anybody's figured that out yet, but it's it's it's.
Speaker 3: Interesting to see.
Speaker 4: And the one thing that I would I would sort
of tack onto that statement is that the again, what
people end up experiencing there in these places, I think
that still does depend on where you are on your
emotional level. I think I think that you're still you're
you're still creating your reality in that regard, but there
seems to be these places that are, like, I don't know,
they're just I don't even hyper charged or whatever, or
just set up for some of this stuff to keep happening. So,
I mean, who the heck knows what those are?
Speaker 2: I see that so much when we talk about specific
geographic areas within the paranormal. Sam and I recently shot
a little documentary of a web series we're going to
start doing about bray Road, and we talked to Jay Bachotchen,
and we talked to Chad lewis Keevin Nielsen. I know,
you know most of these people very well, and they
all talked about the portal vortex thing in bray Road,
like the idea that you know, this even a werewolf
like creature might be might be somehow you know, related
to a portal system. And the funniest thing is, even
before you said that, we had a comment from Joe
Terry saying, Hey, Morgan, tell them about portals, Hi, Joe.
So I don't know if you want to elaborate on
that at all for Joe or because you touched on
it quite a bit. Then but I'm not sure if
you want to talk a little bit more about it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Actually, Joe was just he was just on my
show recently because we were actually talking about another hotspot
that he's been looking at in Illinois and again, very
very similar phenomenon that that we've we've been talking about here.
Just UFO experiences lights in the sky, all sorts of really.
Speaker 3: Strange things going on.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean I've had I've had myself a
pretty weird experience with what I could only describe as
some sort of portal. It was a very strange light
that came out of nowhere in one of these these
hot spot areas that expanded and expanded, and there was
four of us that witnessed it, and it was bizarre.
I've never in my whole twenty plus years of doing
this seen anything like this. Uh, you know, and there's
there's been lot to talk about. Is is there some
other environmental factor that's that's creating this? Is this something
that's coming out on its own? You know?
Speaker 3: Are these wormholes? Who knows? But I do think that
we can we can.
Speaker 4: Start to maybe look at research from the past. Uh,
you know, I bring up John Keel again. Who just
started to decipher this world of this is interdimensional ultra
terrestrial type phenomenon that's going on, and you've got to
start to wonder if maybe that's some of what we're
starting to experience, and the more open we become, maybe
the more we're going to be seeing.
Speaker 2: And Q introduced, of course, the concept of window areas,
so whether you want to think of them as portals
or window areas or whatever, there's this idea that is
very prevalent in his riding that there's spaces where the
other intersect with is far more than anywhere else.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and that seems to come up over and over again.
I mean even here in Alberta. The one area that
I've been looking into is it seems to be filled
with all of that. I mean, we've heard bizarre sounds
that sound like like bigfoot whoops. We've heard you know,
there's been dog man encounters. Over the years, there's been
you name it, like, there's been all of this stuff
concentrated within this small area. And Bray Road is such
a great example because it again it has a lot
of the same features that we've been exploring right here.
So these window areas, as Keil was putting. It all
seem to have very specific hall markers as to what
is being drawn, there's created, what's created there, so on
and so forth. And I think, you know, people that
have been there prior to us, like some of the
indigenous people and so on and so forth. You know,
maybe they sent something and new that these these areas
were special, because often they're found with Indigenous burial grounds,
mounds and things like that. That seems to be tied
into it. So, I mean, there's there's a lot we
just are just scratching the surface of.
Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more. It's interesting too. I have a
very good friend, Wayne Klingman, who's been on the program
a number of times, and he leaves not far from
Bray Road, and he made the good point. I think
it's going a private call to me of how ridiculous
the concept would be if we thought of the dog
man just to some flesh and blood, you know, were wolf.
Because Bray Road when you go when like when if
you're just watching a travel channel documentary on it or
something you've no idea really you know, it could be
in the middle of you know, a forest which is
hundreds of mile but we go there, it's this little
you know, it's not really that far from all of
those kind of those urban centers down the south of
the state that I live in, and when you go there,
it's this little road less than five miles long, with
little bits of woods but mainly just farmland. Like there's
no conceivable way that there's a population of some type
of cryptid physical were wolf beings living there. And it
just but if you look at the kind of concept
that we're talking about, about, there may be there being
these spaces where we have contact with something from elsewhere
or that you know, magnifies or illuminates our own you know, subconscious,
then that makes more sense that this area might be
a place where you're more likely to encounter these things.
And I think that's the case of the more you
look at particularly cryptid reports, I think because of course
UFO encounters, you can go, well, the UFO takes off
and goes back to the zeta articular or venus or
wherever you think it comes from. But when you have
a bigfoot accounts on, like in the suburbs of Cleveland
or San Francisco or somewhere, it's like this thing, it's
not it's not following the creeks. As much as I
love that story, there's no there's no way it's actually
navigate it just it just can't be there. You know,
there can't be a believable population of bigfoot living in
areas like that. But if you think about these things
coming from elsewhere, then sure they could appear anywhere that's
a hot spot or anywhere where the person's in the
right head space to summon or encounter or you know,
co create this, you know, this creature. So the more
I think, the more you look at this without having
a predetermined belief about you know, something very flesh and
blood or something very nuts and bolts, or you know
whatever the various sub sect of the paranormal you know,
tends to want people to develop in I think when
you look at it just from a more open perspective
without dismissing the witnesses, but then also look at the
reality of the physical situation, I think you have to
lean into this this strange, to me far more interesting
interpretation of whatever these things are.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think too, what might help people get
their head around this a little bit better is not
that there's these you know, magical creatures that are kind
of roaming around, because I think that's sometimes what the
skeptics here is is there's these magical things that are
appearing and disappearing, and it sounds really fantastic, but we
have to remember we are not physical either.
Speaker 3: We are also non physical beings.
Speaker 4: Like we have a perception of the matter around us,
you know, that's created by our eyes and how we
perceive the world and whatnot. But we know that if
we put a microscope to anything that we're not physical
really either, and neither the table in front of us
or anything else. This isn't something where you know, there's
these there's us as these solid things and then these
like magical things that are appearing everywhere. You know, there's
been many experiments, even even back in government history of
these these experiments with teleportation and people appearing and disappearing,
and I mean, and some of them are horrifying, but
we know that this stuff does go on, and I
think I think we have to remember that if if
we can only perceive a very small amount of the
world that we're in right now, and we do perceive
a very tiny, tiny amount on the spectrum, we have
to realize that our eyes are not picking up everything.
You know, I often bring up my little Python, and
happy birthday, Gaily just turned twenty two. But I often
bring up my little Python because how he constructs the
world is so incredible and further advanced than us that
for the average person who are like, eh, the snake
would blow their minds. You know, here, we're perceiving whatever's
coming through our eyes with light rays and whatever, and
our brain's trying to sort that out. He's got like
three different streams of reality that he's perceiving and building
his reality around him, and he sees all the way
from infrared right into the UV spectrum. He's got different
senses that are coming at him all the time. So
his construct of reality is far superior.
Speaker 2: Than what we have.
Speaker 4: And he's not some magical creature. I mean I think
he is, but I'm biased, but he's you know here,
he is, you know, an animal that we see all
the time, and he's perceiving things in a way that
we can't even fathom. So if our perception is this limited,
it really starts to make you wonder, like what we're
seeing out there. I mean, you could look out your window.
Speaker 3: And there could be a big foot standing there.
Speaker 4: If it's in the wrong light spectrum, you ain't gonna
see it.
Speaker 3: It's point.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Your kill used to talk about the super spectrum
as well, an awful lot of things moving in and
out of our potential to perceive them. It's interesting you're
talking about Galen. I had a cat here that my
daughter was very fond with. It just turned up one night,
stayed for two years, and then went. But I named
a cat Valet because cats are cool, and you know
Jacques Valaise French, so it seemed to fit. But towards
the end of his time with us here, before he left,
there'd been a number of strange occurrences in this house,
like I felt there was something weird, and I didn't.
I'm not somebody who's particularly superstitious. Superstitious. I don't walk
through life thinking I'm having contact with We'd really not.
I'm not that person at all, right, But there were
just and I could go through and there a number
of things that gave me a feeling that there was
something wrong here. And when that was happening, Valet used
to sleep in the garage, which is attached to my cabin.
There's also a pole shared and there's some other outbuildings,
but he would always and he would not go in
so much so because that's where and I liked him
being in there because I knew at night if he
was or some of the time because he came and
we went. But I just knew it was a safe
haven for him and he could go in there and
be away from other critics because we have all kinds
of things here, and he always loved being in there.
And I remember he just would not go in anymore,
and he was staying away from the house more and more.
And the only time he scratched me, and he didn't
do it to be mean. I picked him up and
tried to just carry him in, and he was not
having any part of coming back into and then he left.
And it was the same time. There was a number
of things. I felt like there was something weird here,
And of course the Egyptians thought the cat, the cat
was able to, you know, had more of a consciousness
of the other world or the land of the dead.
And I really do think that Vala was picking up
on something here that I just had a feeling about.
And weird things were happening like this, A number of
strange things, and I just had a very weird feeling,
but he knew it, like I have no doubt it
was the exact same time. There was something he he
did not want to experience, and he left and never
came back, never saw him again.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And I mean and common like common accounts
of this one a really really interesting study that was
I can't remember which university it was at, but at
the time my professor, doctor Nancys and Roni, she was
still studying and was that one of the major universities.
I want to say it was in the US, but anyway,
there was a really interesting experiment that was going on
with the idea of astral projection or out of body experiences.
Speaker 3: And what they had set up at the time.
Speaker 4: Was all these little huts outside and they tried this
with a number of different animals, but a snake was
actually included in it, which was really cool and as
which is why she brought.
Speaker 2: It up to me.
Speaker 4: And what they what they did was they had one
of these little huts set up with like a little
bed and a table and a chair, like just really
basic setup, and then they had a bed in one
of the other huts. Now, the person who was going
to be astro projecting did not see the other hut,
so they like they didn't know what the layout was,
they didn't know what where the furniture was, so on
and so forth. Their only job was to have an
out of body experience and project themselves into that hut
with all of the different furniture in it, and walk
around and then leave, like go back to their own body.
The only thing in the hut was either it was
like they did it with a cat, they did it
with the python, They did it with a few different animals,
and because they wanted to see if the animal was
actually going to respond to something that was in this hut.
So interestingly enough, experiment went forward, and in the of course,
everybody was watching from a remote camera and they're watching
this this or CCTV camera screen, and the snake or
the cat or whichever would sit up, and they would
they looked at the door, and they watched something go
around the hut. Something stopped at the table, and they
looked at that and then watched it walk back, and
then whatever it was disappeared. So then what they did
was they talked to the person who was doing this
this out of body experience and said, okay, tell us
about the room, and tell us where you went. And
he explained where he went, and where he went was
exactly where the animals were looking they were watching, and
he was like, yeah, I walked around the room and
I sat down at the table and I sat in
the chair for a little bit, and then I got
back up and then bub blah, and it was exactly
what they were seeing. So I mean, if you take this,
this this type of an experiment, and then you translate
that to what we're talking about, which is like alien
encounters and you know, all of these different sort of
interdimensional things, what are they actually seeing? That becomes the
big question. It's really interesting.
Speaker 2: I know, it's super interesting, the idea of his seeing
things on all kinds of different levels and different even
both I guess, temporal and spatial planes. I often am
fortunate enough to see, you know, documentaries, very early on
because they run film festivals. I saw a documentary that
the great Dave Schrader was involved with recently, and he
told a story in that about I can't remember it
was him or of its somebody who told him the
story about after his grandmother died him and two friends
going into the house and them seeing like a figure
of the grandmother appear in a chair in front of
them in the living room. She used to sit in
and just stare at them, and they just panicked and
ran out of the room. And then I don't know
if it was Shrad or somebody else who told Treda
the story, I really can't remember, but Strada told the story,
and then the person was Shrad or somebody else remembered
that the grandmother had told them once about seeing three
black figures walk into the room and just look at
her and then run just like run out of the room,
and so obviously something had happened. Where So I wonder
how much of all these kind of things we see
doesn't have a muff as much to do with our
slipping in and out of different temporal spaces as well
as things slipping in and out of different spatial you know,
relationships to us, And perhaps a lot of this is
just is just that reality is very different to the
type of Newtonian physics, which is the most easy to understand.
That the table solid, that the clock you know, secondhand,
moves at the right time, that when reality mightn't work
in the exact type way we perceive I certainly know,
and it's way beyond my you know, my pay grave.
But I certainly know that many physicists have talked about
time being something which which isn't the way that we
think that it is at all that you know, everything
happens kind of in this or at the same time,
all at once model. But so I often wonder if
much of what we experience as physical beings isn't because
A we're physical, and because we're physical, we're kind of
limited temporarily, you know, I mean, we're limited temporarily, we're
limited in time as much as we're limited spatially. Like
I right now, I can imagine myself having a drink
at my kitchen sink. I can't do that instantly, but
I can imagine it.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: But if I wasn't trapped in this body for a brick,
what could I do? I can imagine, you know, hanging
out with the Roman senator, you know, back you know,
one hundred years before christis board, and I can imagine
it like that. What would happen if I wasn't trapped temporary,
if I wasn't taps spatially, maybe I wouldn't be trapped
in a temporal space either, And maybe much of this
weirdness is our consciousness not being restrained in a spatial sense,
because our consciousness isn't restrained in a temporal sense. So
I don't know. I mean, these are the things I
think about. How much of weirdness can be explained because
reality is actually fast stranger than we accept that it is,
because it's easy to get through your day when you
accept it. As you know, again, the table solid, the
clock moves at a certain pace, whatever. But maybe things
are far stranger than we think they are.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean to the point where you know,
I think it was the Institute of Neetic Sciences. I
think it was Ions. It could have been Ion's, but
it was one of the two of them. Actually in
the last it was like three or four months ago,
sent out a notice saying they were interested in talking
to people who were having spiritual experiences with extraterrestrials. Like
it's now actively being studied, Like have you channeled something
that has come through and has said that they're actually
et like.
Speaker 3: They're not here.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I'm really interested to see what comes of
that study. I think that's going to be really really interesting,
and because I mean there's there's been so many people
over the years that have said I've had this encounter
that encounter, and you know, it used to get brushed
off like so quickly. You know, Aliens was kind of
the the trigger point I think for a lot of people.
Speaker 3: To go, oh, yeah, you maybe you know.
Speaker 4: Doctors that way, you know, and and but now it's like, well,
wait a minute, like there's maybe there is something else
that's that's actually going on here.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4: It makes you, it makes you start to reevaluate a
lot of a lot of claims that that people are
coming out with or have been for years, such as
like the Men in Black for instance, you know, talking
about these sort of interdimensional things seemed to be coming in.
Speaker 3: Are they people we don't know?
Speaker 4: You know, but people are seeing them. So it's like, well, now,
I think the question is not is this.
Speaker 3: Stuff happening, It's it's why is it happening?
Speaker 4: And what exactly it is. I think we need to
put the question aside of is it happening. I think
that question has been answered at this point.
Speaker 2: No, I couldn't agree more. And it's interesting that there
are people within. It just made me think of it
because Flat Rockland, Ak Matt Rockland just a d MT
mixed with CE five and the C five movement or
the idea that we can contact you know, we can
go out to the desert or to a location and
we can you know, all think positive thoughts or flash
you know, lights into the sky or do both can
initiate you know, an extraterrestrial contact. I suspect those things
do initiate a contact, yep. But I wonder that doesn't
mean it has to be extraterrestrial. Again, it comes back
to where co creating this reality And if there's all
these people he focused on, you know the reality of
a lot appearing in the sky, then maybe it's something
far more complicated than extraterrestrial.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 4: I think we've we have to get out of our
heads the media concept of what extraterrestrial is. I think
that's the biggest leap for just everybody to get through
because we've been since the you know, since the First
War of the World, since.
Speaker 3: The you know, the.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the Dailier stood Still, you know, all of those
cult films. We've been really programmed that it's going to
be these aliens coming down from the sky, and that's
where I think it begins to lose people, because my
feeling is is that that's probably not what's going to happen.
It's probably going to be what we're talking about, which
is going to be a link consciousness link somewhere, and
that might be one of the reasons why people that
are are I guess maybe really pushing for the aliens
coming out of the sky. It's almost sounding a little
bit weird now, like when people say I'm waiting for
the aliens or I'm waiting for this this one piece
of evidence, like what you like, what you and I
were talking about, where I think we're just coming to
a point scientifically where it's just simply not going to
be about that. And I think somewhere internally we kind
of know it, and so this idea of that it's
sort of that there's going to be this giant disk
saucer shaped thing that's going to land and whatever. You know,
maybe it sounds a little off because we intuitively know
that it's it's off.
Speaker 3: We know it's going to come from something else. I
think you could.
Speaker 4: Just kind of see the progression in where the conversation's
going and where even where science at this point is
leaning when you're you know, we're talking to talking to whistleblowers,
like we talked about Stephen Greer at one point and whatever.
All of these whistleblowers that claim that they've been working
with with these things up close have been saying the
same thing, you know, like they've talked about crafts and
they've talked about but that's not their main subject of discussion,
and they want to label it all these different things,
like you know, Whitley Streemer's labeling it as demonic, now
the government's labeling it as demonic, and oh whatever, Okay,
you know, call it whatever you want, but it's still
we're still talking about now a non physical phenomenon. So
I think the conversation is shifting.
Speaker 3: I think I.
Speaker 2: Think these two and we talk about this quite extensively
on your show, and that drops on Monday, right, So
I encourage if people listen to this first, definitely listen
to that after, because we go a deep, deep dive
on disclosure and it intersects with the type of things
to a degree that we've been talking about tonight. But
it's a very very different conversation, and that supernatural circumstances
on Monday, right.
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, people can get it anywhere, Spotify, I Hurt, Radio, Apple.
Speaker 3: You name it. And it was.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 4: It was such an interesting conversation and I think it's
it's one that people have probably not heard before. I
think we touched on a lot there. It's a it's
a very different conversation than what's been in the media.
Speaker 2: No, I agree totally, as is this this conversation. And
I did mention before in the intro, and I just realized,
I make I want to make sure that we hit
it because I saw both you and Jason Ewlett post
that are tracking the Wendigo is now available on the
Scare TV network as well. I think i'd already saw
it seen on Prime or somewhere else. But maybe talking
a little bit about that documentary that you feature super
heavily in with Jason Ewlet, which came out a little
while ago, But it looks like it's punching even when
I say a little while ago, not that long ago
at all, but it looks like it's punching even more networks.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was, it was. It was so great to
do it. It was through the small town monsters production company,
and Jason came out to Alberta and I took him
into the depths of some of my research into some
of what we're talking about. And we traveled Alberta with
some really really amazing people, and you get to hear
not only modern day accounts of weird when to go
type sightings that have gone on here in Alberta, but
history throughout like all these places where this has been
been nestled and whatnot, and there's so much like it's
crazy how deep this actually goes.
Speaker 3: And so yeah, I.
Speaker 4: Took Jason to some pretty strange places, but man, it
was an absolute blast and just hopefully getting some education
out there for people and letting people explore this subject
matter for themselves, because there's so many people that have
actually had encounters that either don't realize it or haven't
talked about it, and it's it's really interesting. Twenty minutes
from my house was the notorious case of swift Runner,
who ate his family and in the yeah and was
deemed when to go. He was actually the first legal
hanging here in Alberta, which was forty minutes for me,
was he was executed. So there's a lot in that documentary,
So yeah, hold on to your hats. If you watch it,
it's on you you can find it on YouTube, but
now in the States it's on two B, Prime, Scare TV,
all sorts of places, so you'll find it anywhere.
Speaker 2: And since we've touched on the window go briefly, let's stay.
Let's stay on until we wind up very shortly. Do
you think that do you think that's an example I
mentioned before about negative and you know positive, you know,
influences intersecting with us. Do you think that is some
type of I don't know, lack of a better term,
spiritual poisoning or spiritual negative like seeping through in this
co creation type space that we're talking about when somebody,
particularly if somebody it's taken over by the wind to Go,
but even when somebody sees one on the side of
the road or experiences one, you know, banging on their
cabin door or any of these type of stories, is
that the example of something, you know, something we're co creating,
but we're co creating it with a different force or
is it just us? I mean, I don't.
Speaker 4: Know's it's such a big question with the wend to
Go because there's so many there's so many factors in
that particular subject matter that I mean, we could do
a whole hour on that and not be done right
down to people coming down with bizarre symptoms of what
psychologists called Wendergo psychosis, which I don't think is a
psychosis at all then for a number of different reasons,
but I get into those in the in the documentary
as to why it doesn't seem to really fit that model.
Speaker 3: But there's something, there's something going.
Speaker 4: On there that I can't explain. One of my dear
friends actually ended up in that situation when he was
a kid, and he believes that that happened to him
and he they the doctors couldn't diagnose them, They couldn't
figure out what the hell was going on with him,
and it turned out that he was living basically where
Swift Turnner was attacked by the When to Go in Yeah,
in Saint Albert. So there, there's there's so much to
this particular subject. Whether this is something that's an external
I think I think there is something external that's there,
but we do know that it coincides again with with
specific types of trauma, so you know, trying to unpack
all that in like the few minutes that we have,
we really can't. But it's it's it's a really interesting
subject matter. Our friend Chad Lewis, who we both know,
he attempted to unpack it a few years ago and
ended up writing an amazing book called wehnd to Go Lore.
Speaker 2: You wrote the forward for that book. It's a great book.
I haven't, no, no, that one.
Speaker 3: I didn't write the forward for.
Speaker 4: I wrote the forward for his Winter Legend.
Speaker 2: I'm getting the confused.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, but his but that that book. Even by
the time he was done that and the the insane
amount of research that he did, he was still stumped
as to what in the hell this phenomenon is. It's
it's unique in the world of cryptosology and parapsychology and folklore.
Speaker 3: It's it's it's its own thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Chad's amazing, and the Windigoes story is is just
so incredibly fascinating. Now I have in the show notes
a link through to your Supernatural Circumstances website, as well
as a link through to your author page on Amazon.
But you might want to you want to tell people
how to get there or anywhere else right now, Like,
are there any u r LS or anything you want
to point anybody at, or anything you want to say
that's upcoming. You have the floor for a couple of minutes.
Speaker 3: Oh thank you.
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, everybody, thank you guys so much
for coming and joining the chat and hanging out with us.
Speaker 3: For a little while. And oh, squash Mama says she's
just subscribed. Thank you so much. That's awesome.
Speaker 4: Yeah, please come join me on Supernatural Circumstances. It's bi
weekly and it really is a podcast where we just
strip down the bs around parapsychology and we have some
of the best names in the world coming on the
show talking about these subjects, people like Dean you know,
but we have also you know, neuroscientists and researchers and eyewitnesses,
and we talk about it from a different angle. It's
not from the sensationalized angle. It's from the trying to
dissect exactly what this is and stripping away the Hollywood
and getting down to the magic of parapsychology, which is
far better than anything that you're going to see on TV.
So I would love to have everybody come and join
join us, and it's anywhere that you get great.
Speaker 2: Podcasts and it's such a fantastic show. I'm honored that
I've gotten chance to be on it a few times
now and again, people should really listen to the other
part of the disclosure conversation that you and I kind
of had, the the this I don't know, the psychological,
the supernatural version, the spiritual version of tonight, because we
go down the entire the entire disclosure movement and all
the problems with it in your upcoming one which is
on dropping on Monday, which is what's that on the
eighth of June, So if you'll listen, is that right?
So after the eighth eighth, Yeah, I think that's right.
If you're listening to this after the eighth of June,
you can go and what and watch your listen, Go
and listen to the Supernatural Circumstances podcast with me and
Morgan talking about disclosure straight away, and if it's before,
if you're watching a live or a day or so after,
make sure to remember to go the following Monday. It was.
It's always such a great joy to chat to you, Morgan.
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 3: Oh right back at you. It's always a blast.
Speaker 4: And I knew this conversation was going to be fantastic,
and it was so thank.
Speaker 2: You, well, thank you, And until I get to talk
to you again, Morgan, which will hopefully will be in
the very near future, and until I get to talk
to everybody else out there, which will be same weird time,
nine pm Thursday, Same Weird network, the Untold Radio Network.
Please keep it weird.