Speaker 1: Today, I want to tell you about a journey that
Speaker 1: I've been on for most of my life. Ever since
Speaker 1: I was a kid, I've heard tales of bigfoot and
Speaker 1: wild men while spending time with my friends and family.
Speaker 1: As I grew older and read more about the paranormal,
Speaker 1: my interest in encryptids and other things strange only deepened.
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Speaker 2: Now, what are your reporting? I got a screen going
Speaker 2: on here. Something just kid with my dog. Something to
Speaker 2: kill your dog? My dog. We're flying through there, over
Speaker 2: the tree. I don't know how it did it? Okay, damn,
Speaker 2: I'm really confused. All I saw was my dog coming
Speaker 2: over the fence, and they would dead once you hit
Speaker 2: the ground. I didn't see any cars. All I saw
Speaker 2: was my dog coming over the fence. What are you reporting?
Speaker 2: We got some wonder or something crawling around out here?
Speaker 2: Did you see what it was? It enough out here looking.
Speaker 2: I'm new to the window now and I don't need anything.
Speaker 2: I don't want to go outside. Its fight. Hello, hit
Speaker 2: the fuddy out here? What quent On Olter? I thought
Speaker 2: of a bitch about text for nine? I don't know easy,
Speaker 2: I'm out, Yeah, I'm walking right, heady.
Speaker 1: I folks on to welcome our guest to the show.
Speaker 1: It is Troy and Desi from Florida.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the show. Troy, Hey, thank you very much.
Speaker 3: Brian very happy to be here. I am glad to
Speaker 3: have you. Desi, welcome to the show.
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me. Brian.
Speaker 1: I am glad to have you both. Since there's two
Speaker 1: of you guys, we're gonna switch it up here. I'm
Speaker 1: going to start with Troy and ask the million dollar
Speaker 1: question I ask everybody I bring on the show, what
Speaker 1: in the world got you interested in the subject of sasquatch?
Speaker 3: To begin with, Wow, that's always a great question, Brian.
Speaker 3: I was a hunter for jeez, since I was a child.
Speaker 3: I grew up on a farm up in Connecticut, hunted
Speaker 3: all my life. Moved to Florida. He's about thirty years ago,
Speaker 3: my sixties now. Never really had any interest in bigfoot sasquatch.
Speaker 3: I heard of it, thought of it. Never any interest, however,
Speaker 3: down here in Florida, as I was hunting in this
Speaker 3: one area, especially in twenty sixteen, that's when all started.
Speaker 3: I was out there in the woods a lot, I'd
Speaker 3: say at least twice a week in this one area.
Speaker 3: I was scouting, setting up blinds, and putting up my
Speaker 3: tree stands. When hunting season started, I would sit in
Speaker 3: a tree stand, I'd get this really weird howl sound
Speaker 3: off to the northwest of where my tree stand was located.
Speaker 3: I couldn't figure it out. I would rotate my stands.
Speaker 3: I sat in another stand, same general area. I heard
Speaker 3: a grunt growl. It was a grunt that turned right
Speaker 3: into a growl. So all these little weird things were happening.
Speaker 3: Didn't know what they were. I was coming in again
Speaker 3: to my tree stand behind me, I'd say, maybe I
Speaker 3: don't know. Let's say one hundred and ten feet. I
Speaker 3: hear this huge thought boom and there was a two steps,
Speaker 3: and I'm thinking, why would a hunter drop down out
Speaker 3: of his tree stand behind me? I was looking. I
Speaker 3: didn't see anything after that, didn't hear anything, But all
Speaker 3: these little things added up. Then I went to the
Speaker 3: first big conference down in Florida. It was at the
Speaker 3: RP Funding Center. I ran into a group, I started
Speaker 3: talking to them. Then we went out doing this stuff.
Speaker 3: We didn't have an experience in finding tracks, and DESI did,
Speaker 3: and that kind of kicked it all off for me.
Speaker 3: I've been full in since then, basically given up hunting.
Speaker 3: This is what I do now. It's intense. It definitely
Speaker 3: sounds like it.
Speaker 1: Desi, I want to ask you the same question, what
Speaker 1: got you interested in the subject.
Speaker 4: To begin with a little bit different than Troy's experience
Speaker 4: Because being an avid hunter, an outdoorsman, he had that
Speaker 4: opportunity to be shook by something that didn't really add
Speaker 4: up or makes sense. I'm originally from western Pennsylvania. I
Speaker 4: grew up in the eighties and nineties, and we spent
Speaker 4: a lot of time out in the woods. Of course,
Speaker 4: we were able to unplug. You weren't connected to sulphones
Speaker 4: or social media, and time outside with everything to me,
Speaker 4: my friends, my family. But nothing like that ever occurred
Speaker 4: that made me give what's going on. I grew up
Speaker 4: in a family that was very open minded to things
Speaker 4: that may not be common or what we believed to
Speaker 4: be average, everyday normal sayings. I had a grandfather on
Speaker 4: my mom's side the family, a Polish grandfather who raised
Speaker 4: us on folklore. So he would tell his stories about ghosts,
Speaker 4: to see creatures, this assquatch, and aliens. He had theories
Speaker 4: that I'm quite sure if there's a linkage between aliens
Speaker 4: and Bigfoot, and you're just trying to process one first
Speaker 4: the next, nevertheless combine them. Always just had that interest
Speaker 4: from such a young age and never really left me.
Speaker 4: The lord mystery behind those things that are not just
Speaker 4: common every day are really just what drove me forward.
Speaker 4: And spending as much time as I did growing up
Speaker 4: in beautiful parts of the Alleghanies, the Lower Highlands near
Speaker 4: the Chestnut Ridge area up there as well, which there's
Speaker 4: been a lot of experiences in that side of Pennsylvania
Speaker 4: that have been well documented and knocking the socks up
Speaker 4: of many people. It is built into that culture up there,
Speaker 4: that filling out the community. But nobody, and I mean
Speaker 4: nobody that was in my age range wanted anything to
Speaker 4: do with that stuff. That just wasn't something they were
Speaker 4: interested in. Then, when I had an opportunity to move
Speaker 4: to Florida, an opportunity to transition down here for work,
Speaker 4: I just like Troy, saw some of the advertisements for
Speaker 4: the conference on the news, had a chance to go
Speaker 4: and meet a lot of people really quick at the
Speaker 4: very first conference and everyone after that. You just see
Speaker 4: how much bigger and bigger the community gets. A lot
Speaker 4: of people come into it with their own kind of
Speaker 4: idea of what they believe this may be, but there's
Speaker 4: a lot of disagreement and discernment between those theories. So
Speaker 4: you're looking for people that you'd share common interest with,
Speaker 4: that you could agree most importantly, you get along with,
Speaker 4: right So when try and I met. It was one
Speaker 4: of those moments where you felt like you already knew
Speaker 4: each other, so the conversation was very fluent. It was
Speaker 4: probably a week or two later we ended up going
Speaker 4: out and we have been triggered around since. Stars kind
Speaker 4: of aligned with our relationship and our partnership. The things
Speaker 4: we've experienced together, I can't imagine doing it with anyone else.
Speaker 4: Who've been very blessed.
Speaker 1: Let's get into those experiences. I'll throw it back to you, Troy.
Speaker 1: Obviously you were a hunter. You had these experiences while
Speaker 1: you're out hunting. Bigfoot wasn't really on your radar at
Speaker 1: that point. But once it got to be on your radar,
Speaker 1: you went to this conference, you met people like Daisy.
Speaker 1: You guys start going out doing your thing. When did
Speaker 1: you start having experiences when you went out looking for
Speaker 1: these things? Was it automatic the first time you went out?
Speaker 1: Did it take a while to get into an area.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about where you guys were going, what you
Speaker 1: were doing, and what you were experiencing.
Speaker 3: Good question. Me and Desi hooked up. We went out
Speaker 3: to the Green Swamp. It was really weird because, like
Speaker 3: Desi said, we connected real fast. She calls me on
Speaker 3: a Thursday night. She says, hey, I've got tomorrow off.
Speaker 3: What do you want to do. I says, hey, yeah,
Speaker 3: I can go out. So we went out early in
Speaker 3: the morning. I think we met around at four thirty.
Speaker 3: I think it was might have been four o'clock because
Speaker 3: once we got there, we got our stuff together. This
Speaker 3: was really the first time me and her went alone.
Speaker 3: We get out of the car, get all our stuff together,
Speaker 3: we start down this dirt road. Being a hunter, I'm
Speaker 3: telling you, you just don't listen as closely as you
Speaker 3: should for those odd sounds. You just don't. I blew
Speaker 3: off so much stuff in the past, and when I
Speaker 3: started having those experiences, I started thinking back and go,
Speaker 3: wait a minute, there was something I think paralleling me
Speaker 3: in the woods when I was hunting down at Bull Creek.
Speaker 3: So we're in the green swamp and we're going through
Speaker 3: the trail the path. There there's this whistle and I
Speaker 3: blew it off as being maybe a bug or frog something,
Speaker 3: it's nothing important. And Desi says to me, hey, that
Speaker 3: sounds like a human whistle, and I'm like, no, I
Speaker 3: don't think so, I don't think it's anything. We keep
Speaker 3: on going down. Then the whistle comes again, and I go,
Speaker 3: wait a minute. I think she's right, because now I'm
Speaker 3: starting to listen closer. We continue down. We listen for
Speaker 3: a little bit. We continue down. Now the whistle happens again,
Speaker 3: but it has moved. It was toward northeast and then
Speaker 3: it moved to the north. Now it's paralleling us. At
Speaker 3: that point we stopped. I broke out my night vision,
Speaker 3: which is an old Gen one night vision. We don't
Speaker 3: have the equipment that we have today. Back then, I
Speaker 3: wish we did the thermals and ill at night vision.
Speaker 3: So I'm looking and I don't see anything. We waited
Speaker 3: there for me about five minutes, trying to see if
Speaker 3: we could see anything. But wistles had stopped, so they
Speaker 3: moved from the north east north again. Now they're paralleling us.
Speaker 3: We continue down the road again. We hear another whistle,
Speaker 3: again parallel with us. We continue further. We hear another whistle,
Speaker 3: and this is the critical part. I hear a whistle,
Speaker 3: She hears the whistle. We hear a crack. Something stepped
Speaker 3: on something that broke it and it was of heavy weight.
Speaker 3: So now it's still dark. There's an owl, often of
Speaker 3: distance you can barely hear them. There's no other noises.
Speaker 3: Might have been a whipper, will I think it is,
Speaker 3: And DESI says to me, Troy, what's this? And I
Speaker 3: turn around on the ground. She's illuminating with her green
Speaker 3: head lamp a footprint six and a half inches long
Speaker 3: by three and a half inches wide. Obviously it would
Speaker 3: have to be talking bigfoot juvenile. But if you take
Speaker 3: that measurement and you measure your grandchild's feet, guess what.
Speaker 3: They're six inches long, four years old, six inches long
Speaker 3: by about two inches wide. And there's no other tracks.
Speaker 3: So now we've got a small child's footprint in the dirt.
Speaker 3: There's no other footprint around, no other human tracks, no
Speaker 3: other animal tracks, nothing, And we end up finding nineteen
Speaker 3: of them. But at that moment, that whistle that had
Speaker 3: parallel us continued going west, So that really knocked my
Speaker 3: socks off. It took me about three four days to
Speaker 3: really process that, to really think, holy cow, this might
Speaker 3: be the real deal. This is something important. And after
Speaker 3: that one hundred percent in granted, until I see it,
Speaker 3: I won't be one hundred percent yes they exist, So
Speaker 3: I call myself eighty five percent until I see it,
Speaker 3: then we'll be there.
Speaker 1: Daisy, I want to talk to you about what you
Speaker 1: were thinking, what was going through your brain when you
Speaker 1: guys are hearing these whistles and it's moving around, Because
Speaker 1: I tell you, what you're describing sounds almost identical to
Speaker 1: what I experienced last summer when I had my three
Speaker 1: sidings in two days out in the Pacific Northwest in
Speaker 1: Washington State. We were getting these whistles. That's initially what
Speaker 1: drew our attention to the areas that we ended up
Speaker 1: looking and finding these creatures in Again, Deasy, I want
Speaker 1: to throw it to you and talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about what you were feeling in the moment when you
Speaker 1: guys are walking out there in the dark, you're hearing
Speaker 1: what sounds like a human whistle. Then you look down
Speaker 1: and see this footprint.
Speaker 4: When the whistles started, which were honestly the timing of
Speaker 4: it all surely after we hit the trail is when
Speaker 4: we heard the first whistle. In that first moment me
Speaker 4: thinking it was a human, there is that level of
Speaker 4: fear regarding our safety. Then real quick you're running through
Speaker 4: things in your mind of what that could be. Then
Speaker 4: also stepping back and thinking okay, we're the only cars
Speaker 4: at the trail head. It is four thirty five am
Speaker 4: on a Friday morning, meaning that people probably are not
Speaker 4: up yet or it's a workday, so this area should
Speaker 4: not be very heavily trafficked. If that is the case,
Speaker 4: then they probably know that, so they may be passing through.
Speaker 4: I'm thinking first and foremost the safety piece event. But
Speaker 4: then it just clicks right in. With all your readings,
Speaker 4: all your podcasts, listening all the documentaries you watch, you
Speaker 4: know that there's a good handful of both say, main
Speaker 4: pieces of possible evidence that could link to these beings.
Speaker 4: So it hits you, and then it continues and you're thinking, Wow,
Speaker 4: this Wiley sounds like a text scenario of right time,
Speaker 4: great place for us, wrong time, wrong place for them. Right,
Speaker 4: so they're probably signaling to something, But of course it's
Speaker 4: still a lot to keep in mind, not knowing that
Speaker 4: that's exactly what's going to happen to you. Not even
Speaker 4: five minutes into getting on the trail, when we got
Speaker 4: to the point of identifying the track, we use the
Speaker 4: green headlamp a lot aforda looking at certain types of substrates,
Speaker 4: and myself specifically, I like to keep it down by
Speaker 4: my waist or buy my legs. It's just easier to
Speaker 4: see a lot of times when we go out, I'm
Speaker 4: looking down at the ground, he's looking forward with whatever
Speaker 4: tech we're using at that time, or behind us, just
Speaker 4: so we don't miss anything. But you do. You miss times.
Speaker 4: There's no way you can capture all of this if
Speaker 4: there's something there. But I could not believe it, honestly.
Speaker 4: We have our audio, of course, recording the surprise in
Speaker 4: our voice and the questioning of what are we looking
Speaker 4: at right now, which is very authentic because it was
Speaker 4: mind blowing. Like I said, if you've done your research
Speaker 4: and you're really into this type of field, this seems
Speaker 4: way too good to be true. The only other thing
Speaker 4: is if you want to have a sighting and you
Speaker 4: want that experience, that is the top notch, right, that's
Speaker 4: the Holy Girl. This was as close as I think
Speaker 4: we could get to it besides from the sighting. So
Speaker 4: trying to connect those stops and in a way with
Speaker 4: somebody that's possible eighty five percent believer now to relate
Speaker 4: that to him and also honor his beliefs at the
Speaker 4: same time.
Speaker 1: Tune for more sasquatch out to sea. We're right back
Speaker 1: after these messages.
Speaker 4: Because maybe you have a chance to learn more about
Speaker 4: us through this or other outlets. We compliment each other.
Speaker 4: It's like a whole brain between the both of us,
Speaker 4: which is why it worked so well together. But when
Speaker 4: we saw that track and we heard the last crack break,
Speaker 4: something heavy hitting in the ground and it continue off,
Speaker 4: I really didn't know what we were supposed to do.
Speaker 4: Then do we stop?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 4: Do we document? Do we follow those whistles? We follow
Speaker 4: that commotion. It is quiet until you start hearing some
Speaker 4: of this morning birds come up, and then the sun
Speaker 4: slowly starts rising. Before we knew it, Brian, the sun
Speaker 4: was starting to come up. We slowly saw everything through
Speaker 4: the green light disappear because the sun was taking it
Speaker 4: away from that trail. It just would have been impossible
Speaker 4: to see during the daylight if you didn't know it
Speaker 4: was already there. So much is going through your mind
Speaker 4: trying to figure out what is the best next step,
Speaker 4: because if you're not in that position or you happy
Speaker 4: Bee rehearsed it, which we've learned a lot from that
Speaker 4: moment what we could do better right and leaned on
Speaker 4: some great resources in the process. You never can be
Speaker 4: too prepared. So a lot of things happened from that
Speaker 4: moment forward, but we took that experience and documented everything
Speaker 4: we could find. It was like six to seven hours
Speaker 4: worth of documentation over a very short amount of square footage.
Speaker 4: But we were just hitting the trail heard for lack
Speaker 4: of better terms, to make sure we didn't miss anything.
Speaker 4: Should we have tasted along the tree line, we'd never
Speaker 4: catch up to it. We'd have to go through a
Speaker 4: palmetto field, which would have been a bear trying to
Speaker 4: get through there without thawing in holes getting injured. Even
Speaker 4: though it was over three years ago this past April,
Speaker 4: everything is still so vivid of what happened that morning,
Speaker 4: both auditory and visually.
Speaker 3: KNY. One more thing, very important point that I forgot
Speaker 3: to put in there is that the tracks that we found,
Speaker 3: they were heading east on that trail. They stopped, turned
Speaker 3: around and started heading back west. So what we think
Speaker 3: was our theory is that the whistles were warning to
Speaker 3: the little ones that were out on the road out
Speaker 3: on that trail, playing around or whatever they are doing,
Speaker 3: that listen, we've got some issues going on, or there's
Speaker 3: people here. And they turned around and went back, now
Speaker 3: my experience with hunting, I've seen the bobcats do it.
Speaker 3: I've seen red fox do it. What they'll do is
Speaker 3: the fox will come up, they'll do a little growl,
Speaker 3: and the little ones will head off back into the
Speaker 3: woods some previous location. Same with a bobcat. They'll make
Speaker 3: that little growl, they'll head off. So we were suspecting
Speaker 3: the same thing happened here.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you said that, because if that's where
Speaker 1: I was about to go with my questioning, I was
Speaker 1: going to throw it back to you and ask you this.
Speaker 1: This is one of these things that has baffled me
Speaker 1: about these creatures, because, as I said, we had a
Speaker 1: very similar experience with the whistling when we were out
Speaker 1: in the Pacific Northwest last summer. Had these things not
Speaker 1: brought our attention to them by making these noises, these sounds,
Speaker 1: these whistles, we would have never known they were there.
Speaker 1: And this happened so many times, and so many of
Speaker 1: these encounters. It'll huff, it'll growl, it will bring something
Speaker 1: to the table that brings attention to these creatures. It
Speaker 1: has always fascinated me that they are the hide and
Speaker 1: seek champions that's the joke, that's the T shirt. Everybody's
Speaker 1: seen it on a bumper sticker. Yet, in order for
Speaker 1: most people to have their experiences where they actually get
Speaker 1: to see these creatures, they put themselves in positions or
Speaker 1: in situations where it's unavoidable. Have you given any thought
Speaker 1: to that? I think you've already answered the question about
Speaker 1: what you think happened, But was that your immediate go to?
Speaker 1: Did you have that moment where you said, why in
Speaker 1: the hell were these things whistling? Because we would have
Speaker 1: never known they were around if they weren't making these noises.
Speaker 1: Did that go through your mind or did you just
Speaker 1: automatically go to I've seen that with other animals, and
Speaker 1: I think this is what they're doing.
Speaker 3: So what happened with me is that as we are
Speaker 3: going through this whole process, hearing the sounds and finding
Speaker 3: the tracks, putting all the evidence together at the end,
Speaker 3: it just came into a theory. Of course you want
Speaker 3: to throw in the animal behavior because you would do it,
Speaker 3: you'd whistle what typically I have seen and you look
Speaker 3: at most of this evidence that you see what typically
Speaker 3: happens when you do see this a sasquatch, either a
Speaker 3: juvenile or a young one has made a mistake, is
Speaker 3: out there goofing around, and then the adult has to
Speaker 3: jump in and do something, make the whistles, they show
Speaker 3: itself to correct it, to save that little one, or
Speaker 3: possibly if they're feeding, if they're starving, they've got to
Speaker 3: go out. They have to get out there and do something,
Speaker 3: or they just make a basic mistake. Their mind's not there.
Speaker 3: I've seen that in animals, and it's rare. You take
Speaker 3: a buck, a swamp buck, they're going to get into
Speaker 3: the deepest area, the most isolated area, and they'll try
Speaker 3: to stay within that area for a long time. And
Speaker 3: you can tell by the antlers, especially, don't old buck.
Speaker 3: The antlers are dark, and the reason they're dark is
Speaker 3: that the sun doesn't hit them and bleach it out.
Speaker 3: So the younger ones, you'll see, they're more bleached because
Speaker 3: they're out there and they're hunting around. The swamp bucks
Speaker 3: are staying deep inside the shadows, so they're going to
Speaker 3: be making mistakes and that's when you're going to catch them.
Speaker 3: It's going to be a young one's food. Maybe mating season.
Speaker 3: We don't know anything about their mating habits yet, but
Speaker 3: that could be a possibility as well.
Speaker 1: Does the same question for you, Have you given thought
Speaker 1: to what was going on with the whistles? Why they
Speaker 1: do these things that make it impossible not to see
Speaker 1: them or experience them.
Speaker 4: That's another great question what Troy said about the animal behavior, Like,
Speaker 4: that's really what we're trying to identify, right, so we
Speaker 4: can predict what may happen at a certain location based
Speaker 4: on maybe experiences or frequency, or just the perfect combination
Speaker 4: of different data. I think there were two things that
Speaker 4: probably went through. Remind at the time we started hearing
Speaker 4: the whistles, were the whistles drawing attention, so we went
Speaker 4: towards and not continued. Now, if we both had not
Speaker 4: that those were authentic, we still don't know. But we
Speaker 4: feel pretty darn good that they were sasquatched whistles because
Speaker 4: of the other things that followed then the other audio experience.
Speaker 4: But if we were on the same page of that moment,
Speaker 4: knowing the two of us, we were gone that direction.
Speaker 4: We were gone into the brush to see to figure
Speaker 4: out what that was. But there was hesitation because we
Speaker 4: obviously weren't sure. We're still trying to. We're learned who
Speaker 4: we are in the dynamics of each other and then
Speaker 4: stuff this deep right when it's dark and relying on
Speaker 4: minimal light to not cause attention to yourself. It's tough
Speaker 4: to get through that area and very easily to get
Speaker 4: lost once you're in there because it's so back, so
Speaker 4: possibly getting us obviously paying attention to them and not
Speaker 4: what's lying ahead. But we ignore it, and then they
Speaker 4: keep doing it as a signal of hey, I'm here,
Speaker 4: come towards me, or little ones get going off the
Speaker 4: trail turn around. But the transition and mark that Troy
Speaker 4: mentioned that is vital because it literally was active steps
Speaker 4: this way in like a mark like where you saw
Speaker 4: something turn scuffed in that substrate going the other way
Speaker 4: like a quick U turn. We don't often see that
Speaker 4: type of mark on that trail to begin with. People
Speaker 4: weren't scuffing their boots, dragging anything. Bike tires are another thing,
Speaker 4: but you'd see tread in it. It wasn't that type
Speaker 4: of stuff. A lot of that going on at the
Speaker 4: same time. Plus this was right after hunting season ended
Speaker 4: that time. It is also important because now they are
Speaker 4: aware of who the possible enemies are our douring hunting season.
Speaker 4: You've got us often wearing camo because we try to
Speaker 4: be as stealth as possible. Right, So you've got these
Speaker 4: ideas either go in stealth and see if you can
Speaker 4: find something, or go in and make noise and see
Speaker 4: if they get curious and confind you, or look for you.
Speaker 4: So we're trying to be as quiet as possible and
Speaker 4: as inconspicuous as possible. But hunting ends. So why are
Speaker 4: there people out there and camel at this time? Right?
Speaker 4: There should be nobody out here that is wanting to
Speaker 4: find us or not to find them, find their pray. Right,
Speaker 4: we're taking their animals away from them. So all those
Speaker 4: factors come into plane and it literally paints its still
Speaker 4: of the story and you can just see it step
Speaker 4: by step. We still have so much to learn, Right,
Speaker 4: this isolated incident maybe not common for other people that
Speaker 4: hear whistles. It could have been something else that happened.
Speaker 4: We've heard other whistles and not heard anything else on
Speaker 4: other occasions, and we try to track those whistles and
Speaker 4: then they move so fast, but it's not making sense.
Speaker 4: The whistle moves too fast for us to keep up
Speaker 4: with it. If it is indeed fact the sasquatch whistle.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I think you pull in maybe the animal behavior,
Speaker 4: the human behavior, somebody protecting their loved ones. Now, if
Speaker 4: we got up there had no tracks and we ignored
Speaker 4: those whistles, we won't be having this conversation today because
Speaker 4: you probably want to talk voice about it. But the
Speaker 4: elements of how that sound is, just like the one
Speaker 4: of the three of us doing a classic whistle, was
Speaker 4: too common to deny. When you're a moment and you
Speaker 4: hear no birds and you hear no bugs, that's an
Speaker 4: odd filling as well, because you should be hearing something
Speaker 4: out there, anything out there, and what it's zach quiet
Speaker 4: and you're just hearing those noises. There's more to it
Speaker 4: as well.
Speaker 3: In my opinion, I see it all the time.
Speaker 1: It's got to be about the totality of the circumstances,
Speaker 1: one or two things happening independent of all the other stuff. Eh,
Speaker 1: you can chalk it up to whatever. But there's so
Speaker 1: much stuff that's happened to me over the years that
Speaker 1: I've now had experiences, and I look back very much
Speaker 1: like you were saying earlier, Troy, you let so much
Speaker 1: stuff go because you weren't thinking about bigfoot. You weren't
Speaker 1: thinking about this. Again, it could have been something perfectly natural.
Speaker 1: But when you look back in retrospect, knowing what you
Speaker 1: know now hindsight's twenty twenty, it may have been more.
Speaker 3: To that situation. I know.
Speaker 1: That's not the only experiences you guys have had. Who
Speaker 1: wants to talk about what happened to you next?
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 3: We've also had very heavy breathing. You'll hear the sound
Speaker 3: of the intake of the air and the exhale. We've
Speaker 3: had several encounters with that. One time at night when
Speaker 3: it happened, we hear this going on. We're sitting there going,
Speaker 3: what the heck is this? Had no clue. Again, I
Speaker 3: had my old jen I didn't upgrade as of yet.
Speaker 3: I turned on that IR light stopped. Now I was
Speaker 3: using the eight forty illuminator on that thing. So the
Speaker 3: eight forty has that little red illumination that you can see.
Speaker 3: Our eyes can see, maybe their eyes can see even
Speaker 3: the nine forty we don't know yet. But it stopped,
Speaker 3: absolutely stopped and didn't start up again. That was bizarre.
Speaker 3: It was interesting because the IR light whatever did they
Speaker 3: saw it and they'd stopped. Now, Deisy thought that was
Speaker 3: really close to us. I thought it was like, I
Speaker 3: don't know, maybe seventy five to one hundred yards away,
Speaker 3: but she thought it was right there. She urged me
Speaker 3: at that point to pull my firearm and be ready
Speaker 3: because it sounded it was that close. I'm like, no,
Speaker 3: it's far enough away, being goofy or not paying attention.
Speaker 3: But I was into the moment and it was wild.
Speaker 3: Now we've also heard that again in another location. This
Speaker 3: time though along with it we heard breaking a brush
Speaker 3: with it again. It started. Matter of fact, we were
Speaker 3: sitting there and we were just having a casual conversation
Speaker 3: relatively open area across an older path into some very
Speaker 3: thick growth in that side. That's where we heard the
Speaker 3: heavy breathing. The breaking of the brush was going on.
Speaker 3: That stopped us. I went down the road a little
Speaker 3: bit to see if I could see it. Didn't see it.
Speaker 3: It stopped. It's so frustrating because it's right there and
Speaker 3: you don't see it. We really want to get eyes
Speaker 3: on this. We've got whistles and more it des can
Speaker 3: tell you more about this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, both of those experience with the heavy breathing. The
Speaker 4: first experience with that one was like two weeks after
Speaker 4: we came across the morning of the tracks, so the
Speaker 4: timing was very close to our first experience with interesting
Speaker 4: audio and interesting footprints. That one really did scary. I
Speaker 4: remember dropping my recorder, tramping on my recorder. You'll hear
Speaker 4: people say it reverberates you. It did not do that.
Speaker 4: I want to clarify, but my heart had been going
Speaker 4: so fast that it felt like it was in my throat.
Speaker 4: Just the whole experience was very scary, especially hearing something
Speaker 4: which I did so was very close to us. The
Speaker 4: air even felt like something was close to us. Thinking
Speaker 4: we may get attacked at this point, I'm not thinking sasquatch.
Speaker 4: I'm thinking animal. I'm thinking something is going to attack
Speaker 4: us that way. I didn't happen to my head that
Speaker 4: it was sasquatch. It was more of a fight or
Speaker 4: flight moment. The second occasion was during the day twelve
Speaker 4: one in the afternoon. That was the second thing Troy
Speaker 4: just mentioned. Before we got to this location where we
Speaker 4: started just having a heart to heart, having some water
Speaker 4: to take a break, I had made a call. I've
Speaker 4: never done a call during the day, and I thought
Speaker 4: what to heck, I'll just make a call. Let's do
Speaker 4: a call, because I love reviewing audio. I love having
Speaker 4: the opportunity to look at it and see if I
Speaker 4: can identify anything that seems to be an outlier of
Speaker 4: what we usually see or hear. It had to be.
Speaker 4: With send fifteen twenty seconds, we get two of these
Speaker 4: really long howl calls that immediately follow from a pack
Speaker 4: of coyotes. Really allowed chatter read coyotes. So the first
Speaker 4: and second calls may have been the coyotes, but they
Speaker 4: were uniquely different than the pack coming together at calling.
Speaker 4: So either I woke the coyotes up with that call
Speaker 4: or they were two different possible species. Even comparing those
Speaker 4: first two long calls, we haven't heard that since in
Speaker 4: coyotes we usually hear a similar pattern and they're ad
Speaker 4: but they do have how many different noises that they make,
Speaker 4: so it could have been that. But the point making
Speaker 4: with this is this all happened on that second time
Speaker 4: with the heavy breathing. It all happened on the same
Speaker 4: day with coyotes going off, us hearing the movement through
Speaker 4: the trees, us thinking once again, is that an animal?
Speaker 4: Is that a predator or a danger? What an interesting
Speaker 4: point with That is when he started walking up to
Speaker 4: see if you could identify what was coming through the
Speaker 4: tree line. He said, does pull your bear mace? He said,
Speaker 4: take the clip off. I got it out. He started
Speaker 4: walking up with his hand done. As soon as I
Speaker 4: pulled the clip off the bear mace, everything stopped. No
Speaker 4: more motion, no more heavy breathing. Everything just stopped. He
Speaker 4: started comparing those notes. Okay, if it was an animal
Speaker 4: and they thought somebody had a gun and we were
Speaker 4: the predators, would they stop? Okay, yep, that would make sense.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more sasquatch out to see we're right
Speaker 1: back after the east messages.
Speaker 4: Or would they be more intelligent another being or whatever.
Speaker 4: How would they've reacted to that? Would they have stood
Speaker 4: still and not moved, or other animals would have tried
Speaker 4: to spurry away? While that goes through your minds as well.
Speaker 4: So those were of all the day experiences, and we
Speaker 4: don't usually have very many day experiences. Most of our
Speaker 4: stuff happens very late at night for very early in
Speaker 4: the morning. That was probably one of the more unique
Speaker 4: with the sounds and the movement, and then of course
Speaker 4: the heavy breathing. We've had things at dusk whistles again
Speaker 4: that we're trying to track and we think we're making
Speaker 4: progress out of nowhere. Mother features send you a pop
Speaker 4: up storm and you get completely rained out. When you
Speaker 4: look at the radar under a tarp under a big
Speaker 4: oak tree and you see the radars literally just right
Speaker 4: over to coop with the two of you, it was
Speaker 4: like a it may not be your time then to
Speaker 4: find whatever that noise is coming from. We've had some
Speaker 4: of those interesting whistles as well. More recently we've had
Speaker 4: tree knocks, pretty prominent tree knocks, and this was three
Speaker 4: four in the morning. We do a lot of things surrounding,
Speaker 4: like it said, the night or the early morning outings.
Speaker 4: And if we do a night outing, we're staying over.
Speaker 4: It's a tarp above you, maybe a tarp below ya,
Speaker 4: couple camping chairs and all of your equipment. You're just
Speaker 4: hosted up there waiting to see what the night life
Speaker 4: brings you. Often those are the most productive and fruitful.
Speaker 4: We've had trees fall, Brian. We know, like trees fall
Speaker 4: all the time, it's odd or rare that people hear
Speaker 4: them fall. We've had a lot of trees falled very
Speaker 4: close to us. More than we can count, so that
Speaker 4: maybe based on the amount of times we're out there,
Speaker 4: we do the data and the percentage is reasonable. Hearing
Speaker 4: trees fall, very big trees fall around you once the
Speaker 4: head scratcher as well. We possibly caught a say that
Speaker 4: very strongly on Ohio how a couple of weekends ago,
Speaker 4: way in the distance. When you're dissecting that audio again,
Speaker 4: if you heard it live and then you go back
Speaker 4: and listen again, you're just trying to piece out all
Speaker 4: together to see what's what. But that was another interesting
Speaker 4: that I heard a lot of calls that we couldn't define.
Speaker 4: At some point we thought we heard people talking. The
Speaker 4: errors are remote, but it's not as remote as when
Speaker 4: you're in the Pacific Northwest like it is Florida. We've
Speaker 4: had a lot, but we just have not had that visual.
Speaker 1: It's interesting you bring up the trees falling because I've
Speaker 1: had weird situations here on our property in North Carolina
Speaker 1: where I have captured them on audio very close to
Speaker 1: the audio recorder. I have searched high and low, and
Speaker 1: I cannot find the tree that I recorded falling clearly
Speaker 1: on the audio. And what sounds like I think I
Speaker 1: hear what sounds like bipedal footsteps on the audio as well.
Speaker 1: I can't confirm that. All I confirm is it's definitely
Speaker 1: the sound of a tree coming down. If you do
Speaker 1: this long enough and you talk to enough people and
Speaker 1: you ask the right questions. In general, you can ask
Speaker 1: tons of people who go out in the woods. We
Speaker 1: live in the woods, so it happens more often for
Speaker 1: us because we're here twenty four hours a day, seven
Speaker 1: days a week, three hundred and sixty five days a
Speaker 1: year in the middle of nowhere in the woods, we
Speaker 1: hear trees falling. But you can ask people. If you
Speaker 1: ask the average person who considers themselves a hiker or
Speaker 1: outdoors person, whatever, how many times they've actually heard a
Speaker 1: tree fall in the forest, I guarantee you the number
Speaker 1: is going to be much lower than you think it
Speaker 1: would be. That in and of itself doesn't mean a lot.
Speaker 1: But when you're having these experiences where you guys are
Speaker 1: going out ten times, and maybe two of those times
Speaker 1: you're hearing trees fall close to you in the middle
Speaker 1: of the night, that to me is important data. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't dismiss that so much out of hand. You guys
Speaker 1: are anybody else listening because I think there may be
Speaker 1: something to it's what I'm saying. I know you may
Speaker 1: not have had a siding, but don't you believe at
Speaker 1: some point in time you might have caught a glimpse
Speaker 1: of one of these things.
Speaker 4: Yeah, reflect back on various different experiences, it's hard to
Speaker 4: process that and hard to I don't even know say
Speaker 4: it out loud, just because I don't want to mislead anybody,
Speaker 4: and I don't want people to think it's so easy
Speaker 4: going out there just to see and piece it all together.
Speaker 4: So it's hard to I don't know sure that those experiences,
Speaker 4: but I definitely think that there's moments there was more
Speaker 4: to what was going on. It's maybe a glimpse of
Speaker 4: something real quick. You kind of wonder, is it like
Speaker 4: your third eye? Is it something you're hoping that's part
Speaker 4: of this experience you're going through that kind of make
Speaker 4: it even brighter than it was before. But nothing definitive
Speaker 4: to say that's exactly what I saw now. Emotions and ceilings.
Speaker 4: I know it's hard. You can't tie emotions and feelings
Speaker 4: into scientific research. I get that, but the more you
Speaker 4: go out there and do this, the more you get
Speaker 4: connected to every form of nature that you do notice
Speaker 4: the subtle differences, like we've been filtering through this or
Speaker 4: streaming through this conversation. You get way more comfortable when
Speaker 4: you establish that comfort and that connectivity to nature. I
Speaker 4: feel you're more apt to have an experience and see
Speaker 4: something because you've developed yourself into that person that really
Speaker 4: wants to be somebody that has that and can share
Speaker 4: and help others through whatever those moments were for those
Speaker 4: that have had experiences, but also help whatever the world's
Speaker 4: going to do when and if this creature, this life form,
Speaker 4: whatever it may be, is discovered, be protective and it's
Speaker 4: going to probably rewrite our history. So there's a lot
Speaker 4: more to it when you think back of it. So
Speaker 4: I don't want to disclose more than I should, but
Speaker 4: definitely I think there's been moments where you feel that
Speaker 4: it's there. It's just did you see what you thought
Speaker 4: you saw?
Speaker 3: Jory.
Speaker 1: I want to kick it back to you for a second.
Speaker 1: And this is one of these questions that comes up
Speaker 1: often on the show because there are camps in this
Speaker 1: There's the Flesh and Blood camp, there's the WU camp,
Speaker 1: the high strangeness.
Speaker 3: Everybody has their approach to this.
Speaker 1: I've made no qualms about it. Everybody who knows me
Speaker 1: and listens to this show knows where I am on that.
Speaker 1: But my feelings about that has changed based on my
Speaker 1: own experiences. I am a very flesh and blood scientific
Speaker 1: approach to the subject. But when you do have strange
Speaker 1: experiences in relation with these sightings or in relation to
Speaker 1: experiences with these creatures, I don't really know what box
Speaker 1: to put that in, or if there is a box
Speaker 1: to put it in. Frankly, glowing eyes, some of the
Speaker 1: weirder super natural superabilities that these creatures seem to have.
Speaker 1: Where do you fall on that spectrum. I'm certainly not
Speaker 1: asking you to plan a flag here by any means,
Speaker 1: but I'm curious about your approach to this. Obviously, it's
Speaker 1: a very scientific method type approach that it seems that
Speaker 1: you are taking in the woods. But are you open
Speaker 1: to these other weirder, stranger, high strangeness sort of experiences
Speaker 1: and where does that fall on your radar when you're
Speaker 1: doing this type of research.
Speaker 3: I like the question because I was an engineer most
Speaker 3: of my life. Getting into this really had to break
Speaker 3: me out of some of that be a little bit
Speaker 3: more open minded. Now, I am a flesh and blood guy.
Speaker 3: If you really want to nail it all down, We've
Speaker 3: got a couple videos PG Film, Freeman Film. We one
Speaker 3: hundred percent sure they are the real deal. They're the
Speaker 3: best we've got, so I accept them. The other things
Speaker 3: that we have, our footprints. Footprints are left, they're solid.
Speaker 3: There's something that has been left behind by something, whether
Speaker 3: it's a hoax or whether it's the real animal, that's
Speaker 3: what we've got. It's up to us to make sure
Speaker 3: that we do our due diligence on that track, to
Speaker 3: make sure that it is not a hoax. That we've
Speaker 3: got the real dealsplayed toes. That's not always the case, right,
Speaker 3: Sometimes they're not splayed, but there's certain telltale signs that
Speaker 3: you can look on their movements up to toes, the
Speaker 3: shape of the heels, the mid tarsl some of the
Speaker 3: other things as well. Then again, most of this stuff
Speaker 3: is theory. So once we get into maybe I don't
Speaker 3: want to say paranormal, but some odd things, it's still evidence.
Speaker 3: So I put that in a box over here, and
Speaker 3: if I get enough, if I get enough evidence that
Speaker 3: goes into that box, I have to look at that
Speaker 3: box there's no question. There's no question being a scientist
Speaker 3: or an engineer. If you've got evidence and don't know
Speaker 3: where to put it, but it's there, you have to
Speaker 3: look at it. You can't deny it. So yes, I'm
Speaker 3: flesh and blood. I believe in hardcore evidence. However, if
Speaker 3: there is a trend, and it might be paranormal or whatever,
Speaker 3: it's still a trend that needs to be looked at.
Speaker 3: So that's where I land. Some people are much better
Speaker 3: at that than I am, a lot better. I try
Speaker 3: to stick to what I'm good at that. I would
Speaker 3: probably go out to other resources if I do have
Speaker 3: trends or evidence along that line, and pull on them
Speaker 3: to help me identify what I'm looking at.
Speaker 1: Does the same question for you? Where are you on
Speaker 1: the high strangeness and.
Speaker 5: The wu Having grown up the way I did with
Speaker 5: just that open minded look at life, thinking of other
Speaker 5: things that are maybe unworldly per se that we don't
Speaker 5: see on a daily basis, I definitely don't close any.
Speaker 4: Of those doors off, because we've had things odd happen
Speaker 4: to us out there in the woods as well that
Speaker 4: we can't explain that sometimes make it even scarier than
Speaker 4: the things you are hoping you can explain. But when
Speaker 4: it comes down to what is going to get the
Speaker 4: attention and what is going to be able to be
Speaker 4: analyzed and studied, it's going to be the stuff in
Speaker 4: black and white. I think if this life form we'll
Speaker 4: call it, is some in the mix of all of this,
Speaker 4: all these oddities slipping in and out of possible different worlds,
Speaker 4: if there's truly something unbelievable that it's there one moment
Speaker 4: and gone the next, how are we ever going to
Speaker 4: prove somebody like that. It just seems so unrealistic, right
Speaker 4: if you put all your efforts in that area, I
Speaker 4: just don't see how that kid lead to something proving
Speaker 4: it exists, because it just seems like you don't even
Speaker 4: have a method for that. It's come a long way
Speaker 4: with that type of the blue or hide strangeness piece
Speaker 4: of things, but there's really no way we're going to
Speaker 4: be proving anything like that. Lists We have work we're
Speaker 4: doing with physics and things like that, but the scientific
Speaker 4: piece of that makes it just more credible, easier to document,
Speaker 4: and we just have more of that type of information
Speaker 4: that we can share and collaborate with others across the country.
Speaker 4: Of not the world, but those oddities they are, they
Speaker 4: could be something completely different, like for us to think
Speaker 4: that we're the only things that exist, the who we're
Speaker 4: talking about, like, we'll have to believe in something that's
Speaker 4: a little bit more what doesn't meet the eye, right.
Speaker 4: I take everything into consideration, but we know how far
Speaker 4: that's going to get this field based on what we've
Speaker 4: seen so far. Now, if the field is going to
Speaker 4: take a shift and you've got, like you're saying, these
Speaker 4: three defined unique approaches, I'd like to see how some
Speaker 4: of the others stacks up that I've not seen anything
Speaker 4: that can really hold as credible when it comes to
Speaker 4: the high strangers or the weirdness or whose side of things.
Speaker 1: Let me go back to you, Troy on some of
Speaker 1: the evidence that we've talked about. You mentioned the Framan footage.
Speaker 1: You mentioned footprint. I have gone through this myself. I've
Speaker 1: cast probably six or seven individual feet and or pairs
Speaker 1: of footprints on and around our property here in North
Speaker 1: Carolina over the last four years. I held on to
Speaker 1: a lot of that evidence for a long time before
Speaker 1: I put it out there because I was fully aware
Speaker 1: of the fact that I am the Bigfoot podcast guy
Speaker 1: who just happens to buy forty acres in the middle
Speaker 1: of nowhere in North Carolina, and oh now he appears
Speaker 1: to have bigfoot activity on his property. Winkwink, nod nod. Wow,
Speaker 1: imagine that.
Speaker 3: Dot com. I'm aware of that.
Speaker 1: So I held on to that for a while because
Speaker 1: the last set that I cast, I think it was October, a.
Speaker 3: Couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: Now they were literally too good in my opinion, perfect
Speaker 1: beautiful footprints. I was able to cast them both, and
Speaker 1: I was absolutely stoked to the point I think I
Speaker 1: told four people right because I knew what people were
Speaker 1: going to say once I decided to share that, because
Speaker 1: I've had that happen in the past when I've had
Speaker 1: evidence out there. Well, here's where I'm going with my
Speaker 1: long winded segue into this. Once I put those out publicly,
Speaker 1: the first thing people said to me was have they
Speaker 1: been verified as sasquatch footprints? And my answer, because I'm
Speaker 1: smart ass, was oh, where does one go for a
Speaker 1: verification on an unknown, unproven, undocumented creature that's not supposed
Speaker 1: to exist? Where does one do that verification? I knew
Speaker 1: what they were talking about. Two names immediately has Jeff
Speaker 1: Meldrum or Cliff Brickman examined these footprints. No, they haven't,
Speaker 1: but I mailed them to Cliff. He was in the
Speaker 1: process of doing that. Whatever Cliff has Jeff's going to
Speaker 1: look at. I've even posted it on my social media.
Speaker 3: Cliff did this.
Speaker 1: Really cool three D model of the footprints the cast
Speaker 1: that I sent him. He texted it to me. I
Speaker 1: was stoked to see it. He sent that to Jeff.
Speaker 1: Jeff's looked at him. They both think they're legitimate Sasquatch footprints. Okay,
Speaker 1: now what it's been verified. I've seen a trend with evidence,
Speaker 1: and I'll be honest with you. Since I had my
Speaker 1: experiences last summer. I got to see these things three
Speaker 1: times in two days. Wow, I know they're real. I'm
Speaker 1: one hundred percent all in. I was ten feet away
Speaker 1: from this creature. I know what I saw, so I
Speaker 1: don't really care about evidence anymore. I know that sounds horrible.
Speaker 1: People are like, what do you mean? I do because
Speaker 1: I like seeing it. I love very much like Udisi.
Speaker 1: I am an audio person. I love to listen to audio.
Speaker 1: I get a ton of audio that people send me.
Speaker 1: I don't know any more than anybody.
Speaker 3: Else about it. I just think it's cool and I
Speaker 3: want to listen to it.
Speaker 1: I think we're at this point where people are now
Speaker 1: using AI. We've done entire shows about this over on
Speaker 1: that Bigfoot podcast. People are using AI for potential audio, photographs, video,
Speaker 1: and footprint casts. I've had arguments with people. People looked
Speaker 1: at me like I was crazy when I said I
Speaker 1: didn't really give a shit about people looking at my
Speaker 1: tracks because I was confident that I didn't make them.
Speaker 1: Nobody else came on my property to make them. I
Speaker 1: didn't need that for myself, but other people need that validation.
Speaker 1: And stay tuned for more Sasquatch out to see. We'll
Speaker 1: be right back after these messages. I'm seeing this trend
Speaker 1: of people thinking AI is the end all be all
Speaker 1: to solve all of our problems when it comes to
Speaker 1: Bigfoot and frankly everything else in the world. But I'm
Speaker 1: very cautious because I've done my own experiments. I've ran
Speaker 1: audio from other people through AI programs that I use
Speaker 1: on a daily basis for the show, creating show notes, visuals,
Speaker 1: those kind of things. I get a result from AI.
Speaker 1: But if you alter the prompt just slightly, you'll get
Speaker 1: a different result. You can tailor this to what you
Speaker 1: want it to be. Basically, I've had this argument with
Speaker 1: Steve Coles, the Squatch Detective. Not really an argument. Steve's
Speaker 1: a friend of mine. We don't really argue, We just
Speaker 1: disagree sometimes because.
Speaker 3: He uses this a lot.
Speaker 1: I looked at it, like you said earlier about the footprints.
Speaker 1: What if it doesn't have displayed toes, can it still
Speaker 1: be a Sasquatch print? What if the heel doesn't look
Speaker 1: the same as mine, but it could still be a
Speaker 1: Sasquatch print. I've been out in Missouri. I'm actually doing
Speaker 1: the Ozark Mountain Bigfoot Conference. I'll be a special guest
Speaker 1: speaker there and we're doing a camp out after that
Speaker 1: here in a couple of months out in Missouri, Shane
Speaker 1: Carpenter at the four hundred, he and Randy Harrington have
Speaker 1: cast tons of footprints. Guess what they're casting. They started
Speaker 1: out casting six to seven inch footprints very similar to
Speaker 1: what you guys found in Florida, with a clear arch
Speaker 1: to the foot. It's not a mid tarsl break. It
Speaker 1: is an almost human arch on these feet, and people
Speaker 1: including Jeff Meldrum have called bullshit basically on some of
Speaker 1: these footprints or these casts, because they don't meet what
Speaker 1: is the expectation of what a sasquatch footprint looks like
Speaker 1: or is supposed to look like. I said all that
Speaker 1: to say I think we have to be very careful
Speaker 1: when it comes to evidence and how we evaluate it.
Speaker 1: There are no experts in bigfoot period. Doctor Jeff Meldrum
Speaker 1: is an expert in anthropology and foot morphology for bipedal creatures,
Speaker 1: including apes, hominids, homin ends, but he's not a big
Speaker 1: foot expert. I love Cliff to death. Cliff as a
Speaker 1: dear friend of mine. He wrote the forward to my
Speaker 1: first book. But Cliff is not a big foot expert.
Speaker 1: And Cliff will be the first person to tell you
Speaker 1: he's not a big foot expert, because when I was
Speaker 1: sending my cast, I had a phone conversation with him
Speaker 1: and I was like, the people are wanting to know
Speaker 1: what you have to say, and he was like, you
Speaker 1: know they're real. You knew that were real before you
Speaker 1: sent them to me. What does it mean if I
Speaker 1: give you my blessing or if Jeff says they're real?
Speaker 1: Then what we just know what we already knew collectively.
Speaker 1: Where are you on the evidence? I guess, Troy is
Speaker 1: my question for you, how do you feel about the evaluation?
Speaker 1: Because you could very well go out tomorrow and cast
Speaker 1: a footprint that you send to Jeff Meldrum and he says,
Speaker 1: that's bullshit. It's a person's footprint, and you know it's
Speaker 1: not whether you're collecting it or other people. What is
Speaker 1: your litmus test the way you approach evaluation of evidence
Speaker 1: for yourself, Bright, It's.
Speaker 3: Exactly what you said earlier. You have to take the
Speaker 3: full experience of what had occurred to really identify what
Speaker 3: the evidence really means. I think what I'm saying is
Speaker 3: that it's just not a single footprint. Like our experience.
Speaker 3: We had a footprint. We had nineteen of them, including
Speaker 3: knuckle tracks, but we also had the whistles. The whistles
Speaker 3: moved along with us. They continue past us. Once we
Speaker 3: stopped and we focused on the tracks. We had that break.
Speaker 3: It wasn't a bird that broke that branch. That was
Speaker 3: a big old branch. You could hear it. Something stepped
Speaker 3: on it, and I think it made a mistake. I
Speaker 3: think it stepped. It wasn't thinking, and it broke that
Speaker 3: branch when it stepped on it because it was thinking
Speaker 3: about the little ones. So you take all that evidence together,
Speaker 3: you have to use all that evidence to come up
Speaker 3: with what you had. You really do. There's an area
Speaker 3: that I've gone to many times that I've had whistles
Speaker 3: in this area, and the whistles will move on me
Speaker 3: and they'll disappear. There'll be a soft whistle, lout whistle
Speaker 3: as the whistles will move away from me. Right, So
Speaker 3: it's not a bird obviously, putting that evidence all together,
Speaker 3: why does it keep on moving? Why is it disappear
Speaker 3: for two weeks, three weeks and as we go further
Speaker 3: deeper into the woods, we hear it again and then
Speaker 3: it disappears from that area. So that whole scenario it
Speaker 3: took many weeks and months over that time to develop. Okay,
Speaker 3: these whistles are moving, they don't come back to where
Speaker 3: they're originally from. They appear that it's the same or
Speaker 3: very similar to the whistle that we heard that early morning.
Speaker 3: So if you look at that evidence as well, we've
Speaker 3: got a trend there or one hundred set No, but
Speaker 3: it's still evidence, and we're keeping that. I can't throw
Speaker 3: it out. I have to use it, and that's what
Speaker 3: we should all do. But look for trends. Look for
Speaker 3: that evidence, whether it's crazy or not. Some people say
Speaker 3: some of this stuff is crazy, right, But if it's
Speaker 3: a trend, it's a trend. You have to take all
Speaker 3: that stuff into consideration instead of just throwing it out.
Speaker 3: And I agree, right, there's no experts in this. I
Speaker 3: have heard that they will have an arch just like humans.
Speaker 3: Some of us have flat feet, some of us, as
Speaker 3: I understand it, they have a mid tarsel. I don't
Speaker 3: know enough about the foot to be able to say
Speaker 3: anything about that, but that's what they say, and I
Speaker 3: just keep that in my mind. When we come upon that,
Speaker 3: I'm going to reach out to people a foot expert
Speaker 3: or someone else as a biologist, and we'll talk and
Speaker 3: try to put all that information together and try to
Speaker 3: grow it from there. I think that is the best approach.
Speaker 1: The other thing I was gonna say in my diatribe
Speaker 1: with audio as well, it's the same thing with AI.
Speaker 3: Steve was using AI and I've done this myself.
Speaker 1: I've put audio clips into these AI programs and it
Speaker 1: comes back it's possibly an unknown ape species, or it's
Speaker 1: an unknow hominid of some sort. I've done those experiments
Speaker 1: on my property where I've made the vocalizations. I'll go
Speaker 1: do pant hoots and other things on my property. Record it,
Speaker 1: bring it back, put it through. It says the same thing. I,
Speaker 1: according to some of my AI programs, am an undiscovered primate.
Speaker 3: So there you go.
Speaker 1: You're having an interview right now according to AI, with
Speaker 1: an undiscovered primate. That's another reason in my opinion, to
Speaker 1: be careful in dismissing whole cloth.
Speaker 3: Is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I think there needs to be a different approach to
Speaker 1: evaluating people's evidence because I think we're so quick to
Speaker 1: throw the baby out with the bathwater if this person
Speaker 1: says this, or that person says that, or old AI
Speaker 1: is the end all, be all and says this. I
Speaker 1: think it's the totality of the circumstances, just like experiences
Speaker 1: or encounters or whatever you're talking about when you're measuring evidence.
Speaker 1: So I'm always cautioning people, at least you listen to
Speaker 1: this show, because most people come at this from I
Speaker 1: think the right way when they're evaluating evidence. But but
Speaker 1: it's so difficult as things like technology continue to advance
Speaker 1: and technology is fantastic. Technology makes my job so much
Speaker 1: easier than it was just a couple of years ago
Speaker 1: doing this full time, but it makes mistakes. It's not perfect.
Speaker 1: You have to have that human element. And I think
Speaker 1: when people are using AI, and I think that's where
Speaker 1: this is going to trend to, people are going to
Speaker 1: pop up an image. Okay, images, if it's created by
Speaker 1: AI is going to be able to know that immediately,
Speaker 1: but even audio and certainly putting in models or photographs
Speaker 1: of potential casts of bigfoot foot prints. AI doesn't know
Speaker 1: what to do with that. Again, I think you have
Speaker 1: to fall back on the science of someone who knows
Speaker 1: the makeup the morphology of a foot, whether it be
Speaker 1: a primate, whether it be a great ape, whether it
Speaker 1: be human beings. That's where I'm going. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to put that into AI and rely on what AI.
Speaker 1: I say is on the other end, I've said my
Speaker 1: piece about AI does the same question for you, Where
Speaker 1: are you on evidence, whether it be what you have
Speaker 1: gotten yourself, whether it be audio, photos, or you're evaluating
Speaker 1: other people's evidence. How do you approach that in your research?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm definitely when it comes to the things we've captured.
Speaker 4: More comfortable with the audio review just because of the
Speaker 4: software and the system, and just allow myself to dive
Speaker 4: into that and wanting to learn more on how to
Speaker 4: use it and make the most use out of it
Speaker 4: to help us alone, because often if it is just
Speaker 4: the two of us and we're out there at night
Speaker 4: or the early morning, we're going to hear things more
Speaker 4: than we're going to see anything. And I know that
Speaker 4: type of evidence. There's catalog of audio from all walks
Speaker 4: of life, right, so we have this main database, similar
Speaker 4: to what you're saying a little bit ago about the aipiece.
Speaker 4: There's this main database that we could rely on that
Speaker 4: you could dump the audio into that's peer reviewed, academic
Speaker 4: support and has that level of discernment status to it
Speaker 4: to help us along and see how many pieces of
Speaker 4: that audio are similar to other pieces caught throughout the
Speaker 4: country if we did that, because we honestly know that
Speaker 4: our community can't be that big. You've gotten to how
Speaker 4: many conferences, Brian's You've hosted conferences, You've spoke at conferences?
Speaker 4: Troy and I've been to a few down here, We've
Speaker 4: spoke at one. I've been up the Tennessee's conference. The
Speaker 4: community is not that big, and I think when they
Speaker 4: have those type of events, a lot of people just
Speaker 4: come that are interested in wanting to learn more. They're
Speaker 4: not actually physically out there doing the research. So we
Speaker 4: actually identified who is doing the day to day grunt work. Right,
Speaker 4: you can bring all of this information that they gathered
Speaker 4: and you learn more about that person, that team that here,
Speaker 4: and how that stacks up to what other people are doing.
Speaker 4: I think we would have more productive evidence shown across
Speaker 4: the border. Then we deal with this Piecemells effect throughout
Speaker 4: our country at least I know. At the same time,
Speaker 4: you may have something that, like your case in point,
Speaker 4: with the footprints you found on your property, there's more
Speaker 4: to you as an individual because of your history in
Speaker 4: this field, your occupation, your podcasts, your books. Jory was
Speaker 4: talking about evidence stacking up and painting that entire picture
Speaker 4: for that day, or putting that puzzle together a little
Speaker 4: bit more to complete. Should you have way more credibility
Speaker 4: that should stack into that verse. Maybe someone that we're
Speaker 4: not quite sure we know much about. If you get
Speaker 4: random audio, if you get a random photo or an
Speaker 4: eboll that says, hey, go check out this area. You
Speaker 4: gotta know more about that person, especially nowadays more than ever,
Speaker 4: to see if you feel comfortable and believing what they're
Speaker 4: sharing with you or telling you what you possibly want
Speaker 4: to look into. But I think if we narrowed down
Speaker 4: in our country, if it is the ones that we
Speaker 4: probably more well known know like the Liptop Project, maybe
Speaker 4: the NAWAC and we've got some researchers up in the Northeast,
Speaker 4: we get researches in the Southeast. I'm sure there's research
Speaker 4: groups in the Midwest and in the West that could
Speaker 4: actually work together. Setting pride aside. I know this is
Speaker 4: like a pipe dream or something. Setting pride aside and
Speaker 4: allowing each other to just come together on some platform
Speaker 4: where a conference isn't us talking about our experiences only,
Speaker 4: or us hearing about somebody's expedition in another country, but
Speaker 4: we actually came and taught each other and shared or
Speaker 4: work together, I feel things would cross so much more
Speaker 4: than we ever realized. We've got great resources out there,
Speaker 4: like the Bigfoot mapping project, but we know a lot
Speaker 4: of those experiences are pulled from historical data that weren't
Speaker 4: always captured appropriately. We talk about this all the time.
Speaker 4: You know, you want to look for a hotspot or
Speaker 4: a target zone just in Florida. You may find some
Speaker 4: primary areas, but then you dig in and that doesn't
Speaker 4: make sense and that's not in that location. That job
Speaker 4: wasn't done well, and then you have to dismiss it
Speaker 4: because there's nothing there to use. We possibly have the
Speaker 4: answer to this. If we combined everybody's efforts that actually
Speaker 4: are out there doing things and have things to show
Speaker 4: that could be reputable, we'd be possibly further along than
Speaker 4: we are now. But there's a lot to it, and
Speaker 4: everything is subjective. You hear something one time, you read
Speaker 4: something one time, and then what are we all off
Speaker 4: to the next best thing? Anii's the next best thing.
Speaker 4: Let's create funny videos, Let's have some We write our
Speaker 4: paper for college, the WEE radar resume for us, and
Speaker 4: then it starts taking over the world. But there's got
Speaker 4: to be a faulter. There's got to be something that
Speaker 4: we adopt that garbage. I know academically, there's systems. Professor
Speaker 4: tosses it a paper, it'll tell you what components of
Speaker 4: that was driven by AI. Yeah, Brian, I think we'd
Speaker 4: probably be further along now if we had some more
Speaker 4: that camaraderie and sharing of resources and trusting each other,
Speaker 4: but it takes time. Probably most of us rather be
Speaker 4: in the what's see what we can find. Hope that
Speaker 4: helped answer it, but like that was a lot.
Speaker 3: Very well said.
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you, people have reached out to
Speaker 1: me multiple times over the last couple of years for
Speaker 1: whatever reason, they were trying to nominate me as the
Speaker 1: person to bring everybody together, because we've done entire shows
Speaker 1: on that very subject of Hey, we've got people out
Speaker 1: doing their thing. You've got the Olympic Project, you've got
Speaker 1: the NAWAC at Area X, you've got the BFRO. Say
Speaker 1: what you want about Matt Moneymaker and the BFRO, it.
Speaker 3: Is what it is.
Speaker 1: You've got all of these people doing separate things in
Speaker 1: other areas. My thing was, hey, why if the problem
Speaker 1: seems to be at Area X is just having coverage.
Speaker 1: They go out there in the summer months, they work
Speaker 1: in teams, they rotate in and out, but they only
Speaker 1: cover three, four, five, five months, maybe six months. The
Speaker 1: rest of the time, there's nobody there that's done somewhat
Speaker 1: by design, so the creatures aren't stressed out, they're not
Speaker 1: constantly dealing with humans. But here's the problem. There's not
Speaker 1: been one photo, one video. Now there's tons of audio,
Speaker 1: and there's a ton of anecdotal stuff coming out of
Speaker 1: Area X. I've been trying to plan a trip out
Speaker 1: there for a couple of years. I thought I was
Speaker 1: gonna get there.
Speaker 3: This year.
Speaker 1: Doesn't look like it's gonna happen, But hopefully I'll get
Speaker 1: out there next year because of the experience. The anecdotal
Speaker 1: evidence that's come out of there is, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: second to none for a long term what somebody would
Speaker 1: call a habituation or cohabitation situation with these creatures.
Speaker 3: The problem is they.
Speaker 1: Don't have enough boots on the ground to cover it
Speaker 1: twenty four to seven, three sixty five for maybe a year, two,
Speaker 1: maybe three. So my thing was, Okay, we have an
Speaker 1: Area X, we know there's activity there, these creatures are there,
Speaker 1: we just don't have enough coverage. There's thousands, tens of
Speaker 1: thousands of BFRO members who go out every single week
Speaker 1: and do expeditions in different places. You see them all
Speaker 1: over the place. I don't think there's a state in
Speaker 1: the Union that doesn't have a BFRO membership, and that
Speaker 1: doesn't do some sort of bigfoot activity, i e. Expeditions.
Speaker 1: Why not just collaborate, bring all the BFRO members into
Speaker 1: Area X. You've got your coverage for three hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty five days, twenty four hours.
Speaker 3: A day for a year at least maybe two or three.
Speaker 1: But nobody will do that because it's mine. Every time
Speaker 1: I bring somebody in, something bad happens, or this person
Speaker 1: doesn't respect this rule so they can't play here. I
Speaker 1: get it all the time, and I get it. I've
Speaker 1: had these conversations with Shane Carpenter about the four hundred.
Speaker 1: He and Randy have invited people out there who screwed them,
Speaker 1: who ended up bringing people back when they weren't there.
Speaker 3: It was a whole thing.
Speaker 1: So I know that happens, and I think it boils
Speaker 1: down to when you involve more than one person, you're
Speaker 1: gonna have these issues. If there's two people, there's two opinions,
Speaker 1: there's two everything, and that's when the sauce gets ruined.
Speaker 3: So I too wish that.
Speaker 1: Would happen, and I believe wholeheartedly as you eloquently said, Deisi,
Speaker 1: we would be so much farther along in this journey
Speaker 1: if everybody would work together. The four horsemen didn't work together, right,
Speaker 1: They didn't like each other because they all had very
Speaker 1: different opinions on this subject. It's just human nature, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: and as long as humans are looking for bigfoot, I
Speaker 1: think we're going to be stuck on the three yard
Speaker 1: line where we've been for the last five decades unless
Speaker 1: something changes, and I don't know that it can. I'm
Speaker 1: an optimist. My glass is always half full, so I'm
Speaker 1: hoping that I maybe will happen eventually. I just don't
Speaker 1: know if I'll ever see it in my lifetime, unfortunately.
Speaker 1: But you're right, we would be so much farther along
Speaker 1: if people would work together.
Speaker 3: And I think there's a way to do it.
Speaker 1: I think there would be a way to collaborate and
Speaker 1: vet the people that would be coming into these areas,
Speaker 1: and you could work together, let the cat out of
Speaker 1: the bag, and everybody know the location and all these things.
Speaker 1: But I get it, I get the secrecy. I was
Speaker 1: going to open up our property here for guided tours
Speaker 1: and expeditions at times. We've considered that people have asked
Speaker 1: for that over the last couple of years since we
Speaker 1: started having activity here, and I canceled it over the
Speaker 1: last few months because I've been dealing with some crazy
Speaker 1: folks in the community, and I don't know that I
Speaker 1: could vet everybody to come to the place where I live.
Speaker 1: It's a little different from me because it is where
Speaker 1: we live, but it's the same principle. I get why
Speaker 1: some people would want to share their active areas or
Speaker 1: their hot spots, So.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's just one of those things. It keeps me coming back.
Speaker 1: The conversation is always amazing, just like it has been
Speaker 1: with you guys. I've had a blast talking to Yell.
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on and sharing your experiences.
Speaker 3: Thank you Ryan.
Speaker 4: Yeah, big time go Sasquatch ought to see big fans.
Speaker 4: They say you don't gotta go home, but you can't stay.
Speaker 5: I don't want to be.
Speaker 3: World up it.
Speaker 1: Joy this chop chart everything back.
Speaker 3: Joy for me. Joy stay right.
Speaker 4: Away side still sat.
Speaker 3: Side and still start said say.
Speaker 4: Sad sad side side stay still say
Speaker 3: Pass then start plays and US state as a fencing
Speaker 3: fast us PS PSS