1 00:00:16,879 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist 2 00:00:19,839 --> 00:00:23,079 Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at the 3 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:27,879 Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. 4 00:00:28,399 --> 00:00:31,120 As always, you can email the show at radio at 5 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:35,640 the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDRLST, 6 00:00:36,439 --> 00:00:39,840 make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and 7 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:44,359 of course to the premium version of our website as well. 8 00:00:45,079 --> 00:00:48,439 Our guest today on this special edition of the Federalist 9 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:52,600 Radio Hour is Tim Hale. Tim is an Army Reserve 10 00:00:52,759 --> 00:00:57,320 veteran who spent nearly three years incarcerated for nonviolent offenses 11 00:00:57,439 --> 00:01:00,159 related to the January sixth, two thousand and two only 12 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:05,599 one riots at the Capitol. Let's put this where it stands. 13 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,239 Tim was a political prisoner in one of the darkest 14 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:15,040 chapters of government abuse in this republic's history. Four years later, 15 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,079 the nation has yet to reckon with the damage done 16 00:01:18,239 --> 00:01:22,319 to the people falsely labeled as insurrectionist and to the 17 00:01:22,359 --> 00:01:28,200 idea of blind justice free of political interference. Tim, thank 18 00:01:28,239 --> 00:01:30,040 you so much for joining us today on the Federalist 19 00:01:30,159 --> 00:01:30,640 Radio Hour. 20 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 2: Absolutely, sir, thank you so much for having me back on. 21 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:35,239 I can't wait to talk. 22 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: You've been well. We were talking before we began recording. 23 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:45,120 I asked you about your holidays, and you said, boring 24 00:01:45,439 --> 00:01:48,400 the way you would like them to be. You spent 25 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:56,680 some holidays behind bars, and it's in isolation. At one point, 26 00:01:57,599 --> 00:02:00,560 give us a sense of how others who have been 27 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:06,159 swept up into these political prosecutions, how they, unfortunately spent 28 00:02:06,239 --> 00:02:06,879 the holidays. 29 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 3: Yes, unfortunately. 30 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,479 Speaker 2: You know a lot of my fellow defendants, A lot 31 00:02:12,479 --> 00:02:14,639 of my fellow defendants had to spend their holidays, of 32 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:19,919 course in solitary confinement, of course, separated from their loved ones. 33 00:02:20,879 --> 00:02:26,319 And you know, for the past few years, holidays aren't 34 00:02:26,319 --> 00:02:28,840 exactly even if you were granted bail. 35 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,039 Speaker 3: Which not everyone was, but for those that were. 36 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 2: Even then you had the dark cloud hanging over your 37 00:02:34,439 --> 00:02:36,400 head of whether or not you were going to prison, 38 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,759 whether or not you would be convicted, or just whether 39 00:02:39,879 --> 00:02:42,599 or not you would even be alive. And that's the 40 00:02:43,319 --> 00:02:48,719 unfortunate reality. So for many families, they didn't have happy holidays. 41 00:02:48,759 --> 00:02:51,599 They had really just a reminder of how their lives 42 00:02:51,599 --> 00:02:54,080 had been torn apart and their families. 43 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: And families had to of course deal with those as 44 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:04,560 you mentioned, law, those who were so under the foot 45 00:03:04,719 --> 00:03:08,400 of the politically weaponized justice system that they could take 46 00:03:08,479 --> 00:03:12,400 no more. There are people who took their own lives 47 00:03:13,439 --> 00:03:17,039 because of what has happened in the last four years. 48 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 2: Of course, yes, unfortunately there are at least five that 49 00:03:21,599 --> 00:03:25,840 I know of. Five defendants have taken their lives. Matthew 50 00:03:25,879 --> 00:03:30,639 Pernah is the most prominent example. I've gotten to know 51 00:03:30,759 --> 00:03:36,520 his family, especially Jerry Perna. President Trump has brought her 52 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:41,159 on stage with him. President Trump actually has repeatedly told 53 00:03:41,199 --> 00:03:44,759 her that he would give him a posthumous pardon, which 54 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,039 is a good thing, but unfortunately it's just not going 55 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:51,919 to bring back Matthew. And so, you know, the level 56 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,280 of destruction that these prosecutors and the dj have wrought 57 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:02,560 is really despicable, especially or someone like Matthew when they 58 00:04:02,639 --> 00:04:07,879 intentionally threatened to give him more time after he agreed 59 00:04:07,919 --> 00:04:11,520 to take a plea deal. They tortured these people. 60 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: No doubt there's good news on this front, and perhaps 61 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,439 there's much better news coming in the new year. But 62 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,519 I wanted to start with your personal case my understanding. 63 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,480 Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as it should, 64 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:32,360 your conviction was vacated on the grounds of what the 65 00:04:32,399 --> 00:04:38,079 Supreme Court dealt with in terms of the Sarbanes Oxley Act, 66 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:44,079 which we all know now was used inappropriately unconstitutionally in 67 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,120 trying cases like yours. There are a lot of political 68 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,720 prisoners facing the same situation. Can you walk us through 69 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,240 that where things stand? Because I think the last time 70 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,279 I talked to you, you were waiting for this particular moment. 71 00:04:59,319 --> 00:05:04,639 Speaker 2: And waiting and waiting and waiting. As you know that 72 00:05:05,079 --> 00:05:09,120 charge eighteen Usc. Fifteen twelve, that substatute that they applied 73 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,040 to us, that was ruled on by the Supreme Court 74 00:05:12,079 --> 00:05:16,319 back in June June of twenty twenty four. And so 75 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,560 the reason I was waiting was because I had an 76 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:25,759 appeal in an appeal of my conviction and the government 77 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:30,079 was trying to make backroom deals with me where they 78 00:05:30,079 --> 00:05:33,399 would drop my conviction. They would drop my conviction for 79 00:05:34,759 --> 00:05:38,439 the fifteen twelve if I agreed to drop my appeal. 80 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 3: You might think, well, okay, fair enough, but no. 81 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,959 Speaker 2: In fact, they said that they were going to prosecute 82 00:05:44,959 --> 00:05:48,240 me for fifteen twelve, again just under a different trial theory. 83 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 3: So I told them to kick rocks. 84 00:05:50,879 --> 00:05:57,519 Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, yeah, So but fortunately after President Trump was reelected, 85 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:03,240 they basically lost their fire or yeah, they lost their 86 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:04,079 will to fight. 87 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 3: And they're like, all right, mine, and. 88 00:06:05,519 --> 00:06:09,399 Speaker 2: So they agreed to vacate the fifteen twelve without reprosecuting. 89 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 3: And fortunately it. 90 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: Only took a few weeks before the appellate court vacated 91 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:16,560 the conviction. 92 00:06:17,199 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 3: So that's good news for me. 93 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: I wish I didn't have to serve my entire sentence 94 00:06:23,759 --> 00:06:26,879 for the fake felony, but that's a win, is a win. 95 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,800 And now I have to be re sentenced on the 96 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,879 misdemeanors for whatever reason in March, but I'm hoping that's 97 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,959 not going to be a necessity by that point. Yeah. 98 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: Indeed, just just amazing, just how willful, stubbornly willful this 99 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:52,079 prosecution has been in the Biden instration, the Department of Justice. 100 00:06:52,639 --> 00:06:56,879 I know we've talked before about what you went through 101 00:06:57,199 --> 00:07:03,519 in terms of, you know, the system of justice, so 102 00:07:03,639 --> 00:07:06,160 to speak, the two tiered system of justice that we 103 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,639 have seen in America. You lived it. Take us back 104 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:16,600 through your experiences from that day January sixth, twenty twenty one, 105 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,720 when this whole thing began as a demonstration at the 106 00:07:21,759 --> 00:07:25,720 Capitol there's no doubt that it turned riotous, But just 107 00:07:25,879 --> 00:07:29,759 like you, there were hundreds and hundreds of others swept 108 00:07:29,839 --> 00:07:34,040 up into a political prosecution following that day. But take 109 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,319 us back to what happened on January sixth, twenty twenty one. 110 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:43,279 Speaker 2: Oh, certainly, And it's worth noting that just recently the 111 00:07:43,959 --> 00:07:49,120 Congress on their house page on the Rumble, has just 112 00:07:49,199 --> 00:07:51,839 begun dumping more CCTV video. 113 00:07:52,399 --> 00:07:55,639 Speaker 3: So we're four years into this and all the video and. 114 00:07:55,519 --> 00:07:58,399 Speaker 2: The truth about what actually happened that day is still 115 00:07:58,439 --> 00:08:01,759 being held back. So one of the first things I 116 00:08:01,759 --> 00:08:03,839 did when I got out of prison was release my 117 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,759 personal cell phone video from that day, and it showed 118 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,680 that we were at the Ellipse listening to President Trump speak. 119 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,639 Everything was fine. It was like a you know, it 120 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,199 was like a concert, and. 121 00:08:16,079 --> 00:08:17,639 Speaker 3: So people gradually. 122 00:08:17,199 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 2: Made their way down to the Capitol to peacefully and 123 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:24,040 patriotically protest. As President Trump said, President Trump never directed 124 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,720 us to attack the capital, to fight police or to 125 00:08:26,759 --> 00:08:30,839 break any laws. But about a half hour before people 126 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:36,879 like myself showed up at the Capitol, the perimeters, these 127 00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:39,879 piecemeal perimeters that were set up around the Capitol grounds, 128 00:08:39,919 --> 00:08:43,679 which we're seeing being assembled. Now actually this year, you know, 129 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,799 very recently, you can see they actually are putting real 130 00:08:47,879 --> 00:08:51,600 signs up with the actual statutes, giving people proper notice. 131 00:08:51,799 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 3: How about that. 132 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:57,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So but before I and others showed up, 133 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:03,840 these barriers, these bike raps x and some makeshift fencing 134 00:09:04,159 --> 00:09:09,080 were torn down by a group of people. People probably 135 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,279 know the name Ray EPs by now. He was one 136 00:09:11,279 --> 00:09:18,399 of these individuals in this room. But there were approximately 137 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:23,559 i'd say five five capitol police protecting the perimeter of 138 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:25,960 the Capitol grounds, which you might think that's really not 139 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,840 a lot, and that's that's true. So these barriers get 140 00:09:29,919 --> 00:09:35,720 knocked down, the police retreated and they assembled you could say, 141 00:09:35,399 --> 00:09:40,159 a piecemeal perimeter around the west terrace of the Capitol, 142 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:45,080 very much farther in. But this didn't change the fact 143 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,000 that people had torn down fencing and gotten rid of 144 00:09:48,039 --> 00:09:51,240 the signs. So thousands of people like myself had poured 145 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,799 into the area not knowing it was restricted grounds. Long 146 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,759 and short of it is there were certain provocateurs planted 147 00:09:58,759 --> 00:10:01,720 in the crowds to incite a riot with the police. 148 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:09,320 The police instead of targeting specific provocateurs, actually, I'm sorry 149 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:13,639 to say, incompetent many of them attacked random members of 150 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,840 the crowd and incited the crowd even further and so 151 00:10:17,399 --> 00:10:20,480 throwing flash bang grenades into the middle of the crowd bodies, 152 00:10:20,519 --> 00:10:24,679 slamming old women with riot shields. This exacerbated the situation, 153 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,759 and eventually there were so many people they made their 154 00:10:27,759 --> 00:10:32,480 way into the capitol. There are interesting individuals who were 155 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,759 involved in the initial breach of the Capitol building itself, 156 00:10:36,159 --> 00:10:38,679 but for the most part, people like myself walked through 157 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,279 open doors. And there is testimony I have from other 158 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,919 defendants that I was incarcerated with who said that indeed 159 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,600 the police were opening doors for people. The police were 160 00:10:48,639 --> 00:10:52,600 directing people for somewhere to go. I have video that 161 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,960 shows certain protests are saying, oh, it's quote, it's that way. 162 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,840 That's why we're not allowed down that way, which means 163 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,759 that we can be in most of the capitol hallways, 164 00:11:02,799 --> 00:11:05,440 just not where the police cordon opt over here. It's 165 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,399 very complicated, it's very confusing, and I can even concede 166 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,840 that the police might have unknowingly given the impression to 167 00:11:14,279 --> 00:11:16,960 protesters that they were allowed to be certain places they 168 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:17,279 were not. 169 00:11:17,639 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: Well. It was very very chaotic, tim I mean, you 170 00:11:20,919 --> 00:11:23,600 see the videos you lived it. It was very chaotic. 171 00:11:24,039 --> 00:11:28,399 There were people rushing into that capital, not because they 172 00:11:28,399 --> 00:11:31,639 were insurrectionist or because they wanted to do damage, but 173 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:36,720 they were fleeing from, you know, all kinds of pandemonium, 174 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:38,799 and they felt like they were going to be trampled 175 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:44,639 underfoot or maybe assaulted in the rush, assaulted by law enforcement. 176 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,519 It was an extremely chaotic time that is well known. 177 00:11:48,919 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 2: Absolutely Matthew Perna who I just mentioned, he was pushed 178 00:11:52,519 --> 00:11:56,399 into the capitol. He was almost crushed to death. And 179 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,919 people like myself, as I said, I walked, I walked 180 00:11:58,919 --> 00:12:02,360 through an open door, a door that the CCTV shows 181 00:12:02,399 --> 00:12:07,480 was kicked open, but I had no knowledge of. And 182 00:12:07,519 --> 00:12:10,840 so this is an important thing for people to understand. 183 00:12:10,879 --> 00:12:15,279 And here's a logical test. If January sixth was an 184 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:19,320 armed insurrection, wouldn't it have gotten more violent once the 185 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,440 capitol was infiltrated rather than less. The truth is that 186 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:25,919 most of the violence happened on the outside of the capitol, 187 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:30,639 on the capitol grounds, in very specific areas where people 188 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:35,440 had contact with police because of provocateurs or because people 189 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,399 were reacting or were incited. But when we got inside 190 00:12:39,399 --> 00:12:42,799 the capitol, there was virtually no violence inside the Capitol 191 00:12:42,799 --> 00:12:46,360 building itself, and this is reflective of the actual intent 192 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,759 of the people there. And so when you watch the 193 00:12:48,799 --> 00:12:53,200 CCTV or any of our personal video, you see people 194 00:12:53,279 --> 00:12:57,080 just chanting stop the steal, or you see people fist 195 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,960 bumping cops when they come across them, or you see 196 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,559 people walking through velvet ropes like it's a museum tour. 197 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,240 And so for the vast majority of people there, this 198 00:13:09,399 --> 00:13:12,639 was just a protest. This was never an insurrection. This 199 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:17,080 was not a rebellion. And most people, even most people, 200 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,200 though there was a riot that developed, most people probably 201 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:21,879 didn't even know about the riot. 202 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,519 Speaker 3: And so it's important to understand. 203 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 2: But from that point on, when the cops had told 204 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:33,960 people to leave and you know, ejected us. In my experience, 205 00:13:34,159 --> 00:13:37,559 I was arrested very early on. I was arrested about 206 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:42,600 a week later. I was the union representative for naval 207 00:13:42,639 --> 00:13:46,759 weapon contractors for Naval Weapon Station Earl, a Navy base 208 00:13:47,159 --> 00:13:49,840 here in New Jersey. I had a poor relationship with 209 00:13:49,919 --> 00:13:54,519 management because as the union rep I was constantly holding 210 00:13:54,519 --> 00:13:58,480 them to task or taking them to task for labor violations. 211 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,840 It's a whole other topic. Everyone had known I had 212 00:14:01,879 --> 00:14:04,679 gone to Washington, DC. Nobody knew that I was a 213 00:14:04,759 --> 00:14:09,519 quote unquote insurrectionist, but my management had tipped off NCIS. 214 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,440 NCIS had come to my house looking for me, and 215 00:14:13,519 --> 00:14:16,320 instead they found my roommate, and then they strapped my 216 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:20,600 roommate with a wire to try to incriminate me. And 217 00:14:20,679 --> 00:14:23,639 the next day after that, I was in a county 218 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:25,519 jail after getting raided by. 219 00:14:25,559 --> 00:14:28,039 Speaker 3: Dozens of FBI and NCIS agents. 220 00:14:28,679 --> 00:14:32,679 Speaker 2: And not sure where you'd like me to go from there, 221 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,639 but I can definitely address the civil liberties that were 222 00:14:36,679 --> 00:14:39,960 deprived of January sixth defendants for quite a time. 223 00:14:40,679 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, as you've described it, you go from 224 00:14:44,399 --> 00:14:51,480 chaos to incrimination and then you know, you have basically 225 00:14:51,679 --> 00:14:57,919 this storm of law enforcement officials on you. They're infiltrating 226 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,600 people in your life to try to get you to, 227 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,480 you know, to say some some incriminating things. Let's talk 228 00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:09,200 a little bit about that, because you know, there are 229 00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:11,639 so many different abuses here, but it can be argued 230 00:15:11,919 --> 00:15:16,799 your particular civil liberties were very much abused in this. 231 00:15:17,039 --> 00:15:21,000 Uh you know, these recordings in these sorts of things 232 00:15:21,519 --> 00:15:25,879 where let's let's be honest. You know, you said some 233 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:31,679 unfortunate things, not in the context of course, that it 234 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,759 has been drawn into in terms of the testimony in 235 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:42,320 your trial. Sure, you know, my roommate was a BLM guy. 236 00:15:43,159 --> 00:15:45,240 He was left of center, which I never had an 237 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:50,360 issue with. You know, he was a Jamaican American. You know, 238 00:15:50,399 --> 00:15:52,240 we'd lived together for about three years. 239 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,639 Speaker 2: He was in the Navy and I was a naval contractor, 240 00:15:55,279 --> 00:15:57,919 and we had worked together as for in, you know, 241 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,480 creating satire for by some time. He was my tech guy, 242 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:08,080 and I had recordings from videos where he was basically 243 00:16:08,159 --> 00:16:13,360 advocating sectarian conflict, civil war, basically typical BLM burn it 244 00:16:13,399 --> 00:16:17,120 all down stuff, and I never took it at face value. 245 00:16:17,559 --> 00:16:20,639 And so the night he records me, I had been 246 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,000 drinking and so instead of playing the straight man, I 247 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,440 did a reverse UNO card, so to speak, and I 248 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:29,759 was the one who was joking about civil war. 249 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 3: Now this is out of context, and. 250 00:16:34,159 --> 00:16:39,279 Speaker 2: The recording makes it clear, very clear that at the 251 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,879 end of it I actually said, by the way, I 252 00:16:42,879 --> 00:16:48,200 don't actually want civil war. But the damage was done 253 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,720 when I had been in front of a magistrate judge 254 00:16:51,919 --> 00:16:55,159 and then at later a district judge for bail when 255 00:16:55,159 --> 00:16:59,759 I was going for bonds. The government was issuing transcripts 256 00:17:00,039 --> 00:17:03,519 that were chopped off, so it didn't have the entirety 257 00:17:03,519 --> 00:17:06,880 of these conversations. And so the government had done everything 258 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:08,519 it could to try to portray me as the next 259 00:17:08,519 --> 00:17:11,480 Timothy McVeigh. They had tried to portray me as a 260 00:17:11,519 --> 00:17:15,960 white supremacist or a Nazi. They had taken satire from 261 00:17:16,039 --> 00:17:21,559 years before January sixth to do that, and they had 262 00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:26,480 manipulated evidence and withheld exculpatory evidence in order to deny 263 00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:30,680 me bail and keep me as well. Eventually, in Washington, 264 00:17:30,759 --> 00:17:33,359 d c. And where I was kept in solitary confinement 265 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,880 for approximately a year, I was denied a fair and 266 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,000 speedy trial. And everyone knows the Constitution says that you 267 00:17:42,039 --> 00:17:44,440 have the right to a speedy trial. But it's important 268 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:49,200 to understand constitutional law has to be constitutional rights have 269 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,960 to be fleshed out with statutory law. Right. So in 270 00:17:52,079 --> 00:17:55,079 DC you have the Speedy Trial Act, and the Speedy 271 00:17:55,079 --> 00:17:57,079 Trial Act said you have the right to a trial 272 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:00,880 if you invoke it within seventy days. Well, I waited 273 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,960 sixteen months. It took me a year and a half 274 00:18:04,079 --> 00:18:08,079 to vote a trial. I was denied my evidence. I 275 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,480 was denied access to my attorney. I couldn't even see 276 00:18:11,519 --> 00:18:16,119 my attorney during the week of my trial. I was 277 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:21,200 denied access to religious services. You weren't allowed to take communion. 278 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,480 I was denied visitation from family, denied basic medical care, 279 00:18:25,599 --> 00:18:29,000 and as I said, captain solitary, pretty cruel and unusual. 280 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,720 But more than anything, they tried to hold us hostage 281 00:18:34,599 --> 00:18:37,759 because of COVID nineteen. DC was worse than any deep 282 00:18:37,839 --> 00:18:40,599 blue state, and so they were able to get away 283 00:18:40,599 --> 00:18:43,160 with depriving us of our rights under the basis of 284 00:18:43,279 --> 00:18:46,279 protecting us from COVID. And of course, the jail promised 285 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,079 us that if we got the COVID nineteen shot, if 286 00:18:49,079 --> 00:18:51,440 we got the vaccine, then we would be allowed to 287 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:57,160 see our families, see our lawyers, receive communion. And that 288 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,680 was a lie, and several people, unfortunately fell for it. 289 00:19:01,799 --> 00:19:05,240 But that's what life was like in d C. It 290 00:19:05,319 --> 00:19:08,839 was essentially a re education camp. I say that the 291 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,519 DC jail, or the DC goulag as it's called, is 292 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,960 a cross between an FBI field office and an insane asylum. 293 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:18,680 They courted us off, They segregated us from in the 294 00:19:18,799 --> 00:19:22,640 entire jail. They segregated us into a special wing, basically 295 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,799 a nuthouse, where they kept us in solitary and they 296 00:19:26,799 --> 00:19:29,759 also housed us with informants who would try to sabotage 297 00:19:29,759 --> 00:19:34,680 our cases. If we still thought so, every every right, 298 00:19:34,759 --> 00:19:37,279 every privilege of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and 299 00:19:37,279 --> 00:19:40,279 I would also say the fourteenth Amendment equal protection. We 300 00:19:40,279 --> 00:19:42,920 were treated very differently from other DC inmates. We were 301 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,839 also treated very differently from other rioters, and so everything 302 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,720 you'd hold sacred as an American was basically stripped from us. 303 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:57,279 Speaker 1: That is horrifying on so many levels, just absolutely horrifying. 304 00:19:57,839 --> 00:20:00,920 And again I can't help but think about you mentioned 305 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:06,759 the BLM, the Black Lives Matter movement, and the rioters 306 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:12,720 in the violent protesters in that movement. One might even say, 307 00:20:12,759 --> 00:20:17,839 because of the burning of down of government buildings and structures, 308 00:20:17,839 --> 00:20:24,799 that they were indeed insurrectionist, and yet I don't remember 309 00:20:25,039 --> 00:20:29,559 them being treated the same way. You talk about disparate justice. 310 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:37,119 This whole experience was one long case study of justice. 311 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,759 And you mentioned COVID, But how on earth were they 312 00:20:40,799 --> 00:20:43,440 able to get away with this kind of treatment of 313 00:20:43,519 --> 00:20:48,279 people alleged to have committed crimes but not convicted of 314 00:20:48,319 --> 00:20:49,319 committing crimes. 315 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, that is the it's the million dollar question. 316 00:20:54,319 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 2: And unfortunately, I believe COVID was used as a trojan 317 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,799 horse to justify pretty much anything. Keep in mind, I 318 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:06,880 was in the dcjail for approximately two years. I left 319 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:12,759 about November in twenty twenty two, and people were still 320 00:21:12,799 --> 00:21:16,240 forced to wear COVID masks inside anywhere they went inside 321 00:21:16,279 --> 00:21:23,200 the DC jail. COVID was a catch all boogeyman, and 322 00:21:23,319 --> 00:21:24,680 it justified doing anything. 323 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 3: And keep in mind, Washington, d C. 324 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:32,079 Speaker 2: Had stopped with their COVID lockdowns and restrictions long before 325 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,160 the DC jail had. There was a ruling actually by 326 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,680 my judge Trevor McFadden, where he ruled that Mayor Bowser 327 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:46,359 couldn't couldn't lock down churches in DC because it was 328 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,359 a violation of the Bill of Rights. And so it 329 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,519 was curious though, because if they couldn't do that to 330 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,559 DC as a whole, why could they do that to 331 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:57,839 inmates in the DC jail and deprive them of all 332 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:03,359 their other civil rights? And so unfortunately, this is what 333 00:22:03,599 --> 00:22:07,680 is what I always call the pendulum swing. The pendulum 334 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,920 can always swing back in the other direction. And because 335 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,839 we have a common law system. Bad precedents can last 336 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:18,480 for generations. I mean, you know recently the Dobbs decision 337 00:22:18,519 --> 00:22:19,240 overruled Roe v. 338 00:22:19,319 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 3: Wade. How many decades did that take? Or you look 339 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:22,440 at Plessy v. 340 00:22:22,559 --> 00:22:24,839 Speaker 2: Ferguson and how long it took until Brown versus the 341 00:22:24,839 --> 00:22:28,079 Board of Education. The common law system is a beautiful thing, 342 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,240 but it's very delicate, and bad precedents like this, if 343 00:22:31,279 --> 00:22:35,400 they're allowed to stand, they'll ripple through history. And you 344 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,960 know what happened after January sixth, and also with COVID. 345 00:22:40,279 --> 00:22:42,359 It needs to be nipped in the butt and this 346 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:43,720 can never be allowed to happen again. 347 00:22:44,599 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: Well, that brings us to a very important point as 348 00:22:48,279 --> 00:22:51,880 we look ahead now and turn the calendar, turn the 349 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,720 page into a new administration. 350 00:23:01,759 --> 00:23:05,039 Speaker 4: Skyrocketing energy prices have caused people to do what the 351 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,240 watched Out on Wall Street Podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day, 352 00:23:08,319 --> 00:23:11,319 Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and the economy 353 00:23:11,319 --> 00:23:13,759 and how it affects your While thirty four percent of 354 00:23:13,799 --> 00:23:17,000 people have cut back or stip spending on necessary expenses 355 00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:20,319 to pay their electric bill, this government involvement and increased 356 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,119 regulation continues to drive their prices even higher. Whether it's 357 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,319 happening in DC or down on Wall Street. It's affecting 358 00:23:26,319 --> 00:23:27,000 you financially. 359 00:23:27,079 --> 00:23:27,599 Speaker 3: Be informed. 360 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,519 Speaker 4: Check out the Watch Dot on Wall Street podcast with 361 00:23:29,599 --> 00:23:35,640 Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. 362 00:23:36,039 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: Our guest today on the special edition of The Federalist 363 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,039 Radio Hour is Tim Hale. Tim is an Army Reserve 364 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,240 veteran who spent nearly three years incarcerated for nonviolent offenses 365 00:23:47,279 --> 00:23:50,279 related to the January sixth, twenty twenty one riots at 366 00:23:50,759 --> 00:23:55,680 the Capitol. Indeed, he was a political prisoner, like hundreds 367 00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:00,720 more because of politics. Let's call it what it is. 368 00:24:01,599 --> 00:24:04,359 So now you have experienced what you have, so many 369 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:11,160 have experienced, you know, being hounded, being arrested, being convicted, 370 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:17,119 being tossed in behind bars, so many, like you said, 371 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,480 rodding away without the benefit of a speedy trial, all 372 00:24:21,519 --> 00:24:26,039 of the things that we just addressed. Will there be 373 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:31,119 any accountability for these abuses? And let me ask you 374 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:37,519 this through the prism of what my colleague at the 375 00:24:37,559 --> 00:24:44,880 Federalist is reporting today as we speak, that Liz Cheney, 376 00:24:46,079 --> 00:24:50,680 who was the co chair of the infamous J six 377 00:24:50,839 --> 00:24:56,880 Congressional Committee, the House Committee, is receiving the highest citizen 378 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:02,319 honor in the land from President Joe Biden, basically a 379 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:09,759 last shot at those that his Justice Department swept into 380 00:25:09,799 --> 00:25:14,519 this massive political prosecution. Liz Cheney is receiving the Presidential 381 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,599 Citizens Medal. What do you think about that? 382 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 2: I think she belongs in prison, and I'd like to 383 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,720 see her go there when my friends are let out. 384 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,319 You know this, look, I'm I have always considered myself 385 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:35,720 more of an independent person, not a Republican partisan. She 386 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:37,880 is a Rhino and she work with the Democrats, and 387 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:43,759 that's whatever. But from my perspective, that committee didn't just 388 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,400 lie about January sixth, and they didn't just destroy evidence 389 00:25:47,599 --> 00:25:52,640 from January sixth. They deprived people, good people that I 390 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:57,279 was incarcerated with, with the ability to have a fair trial. Now, 391 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,079 keep in mind, from my perspective, DC's extremely biased. They 392 00:26:01,079 --> 00:26:04,440 were trying to have they were trying during my vois 393 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,519 deer hearings, during jury selection, they were trying to put 394 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,519 they were trying to put staffers from Chuck Schumer's office 395 00:26:10,519 --> 00:26:15,200 on my jury. You know how, Yeah, you should read 396 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,319 the transcripts. It's actually insane. Every almost everybody that ends 397 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:24,119 up on these biased leftist juries they hate Trump, of course, 398 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,519 but they also work for the government. There's a there's 399 00:26:26,559 --> 00:26:30,400 a massive, uh, there's a huge conflict of interest. But 400 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,440 that's that goes without saying. Actually, when they were having 401 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,720 those hearings, those committee hearings, they had plastered this video 402 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,799 all throughout Washington, d C. They put up big screens 403 00:26:44,319 --> 00:26:48,480 and they were saying the names of Ryan Nichols, Jessica Watkins, 404 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,559 the Proud Boys, the Oathkeepers. They were prejudicing any possibility 405 00:26:53,759 --> 00:26:59,920 and already prejudiced jury. It was they they deprived people 406 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,160 of any ability to defend themselves, and they had convicted 407 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,039 them in the court of public opinion before they'd even 408 00:27:06,079 --> 00:27:07,720 set foot in a courtroom. 409 00:27:07,839 --> 00:27:10,680 Speaker 1: But Tim, that is astounding to me because you know, 410 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,119 we also think about the concept of a fair and 411 00:27:14,319 --> 00:27:18,359 unbiased jury. Well, you know, that's a delusion we saw, 412 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,400 of course in twenty twenty four when you had you know, 413 00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:27,119 the Republican nominee for president in a kangaroo court in 414 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,920 manhatt Hat and convicted of crimes and of course trumped 415 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:36,759 up crimes, no pun intended. But you know, we really 416 00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:40,160 the system of justice has really taken a beating. It 417 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,920 has been battered over the last four years in this country, 418 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,160 it's how do you ever get that back? But I 419 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,839 think about how could you ever expect a fair trial 420 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,039 or your co defendants, your fellow defendants, how could you 421 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,960 ever expect a fair trial in Washington, d C? Of 422 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,559 all places? And the question is, ultimately why were these 423 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:09,240 trials not removed from Washington, d C? On the basis 424 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,480 that you could not get a fair trial there? 425 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 2: Well, and that's and that's exactly it. You know, the 426 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,400 issue of change of venue should the changes of venue 427 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,759 should absolutely be available to defendants in extremely controversial cases. 428 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,000 And yet, and yet in the belly of the beast, 429 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:34,000 keep in mind, in many of the government's arguments, basically 430 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,839 Washington d C was the victim. So if Washington DC 431 00:28:38,039 --> 00:28:41,160 was the victim, how could d C and its residents 432 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,799 be the ones to try the case or to judge 433 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,759 the case? And of course the reason that changes the 434 00:28:47,839 --> 00:28:52,160 venue weren't allowed, of course, obviously because they would have 435 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,319 a fair shot in any other district, even more, even 436 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,559 what we would typically consider liberal states or blue states 437 00:28:59,039 --> 00:29:02,279 or regular district outside of d C. Yeah, that we 438 00:29:02,279 --> 00:29:06,240 would have had a far greater shot at being judged 439 00:29:06,279 --> 00:29:10,640 fairly by our peers. But you know again, I think 440 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:15,640 that this, and you alluded to the kangaroo court, this 441 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,799 is reflective of the Frank. I think this is reflective 442 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:26,200 of the change from a republic to an absolute despotism. 443 00:29:26,519 --> 00:29:29,400 When I look at history and I think of how 444 00:29:29,759 --> 00:29:33,160 Rome changed, it wasn't just the Roman Civil War that 445 00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:35,480 caused the change from the republic to the empire. 446 00:29:35,839 --> 00:29:36,559 Speaker 3: It was the fact that. 447 00:29:36,519 --> 00:29:41,319 Speaker 2: The Caesars were replacing the power of the Senate, and 448 00:29:41,359 --> 00:29:45,640 going forward to every new administration would be justified by 449 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,119 who assassinated who. And what I see now in America 450 00:29:49,319 --> 00:29:55,200 is we're going to this place where each administration is 451 00:29:55,359 --> 00:29:59,519 encouraged to prosecute or hunt down the last, or to 452 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,920 unse eat power. And that's not how a republic should function. 453 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,359 They talk about the peaceful transfer of democracy, and yet 454 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,079 they spend years hunting down their political opponents. It might 455 00:30:10,119 --> 00:30:13,440 be more, it might not have as much bloodshed as Rome, 456 00:30:14,039 --> 00:30:18,319 but I still think the principle stands, either we stop 457 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,079 this or we're not going to have the United States 458 00:30:21,119 --> 00:30:21,680 as we know it. 459 00:30:22,519 --> 00:30:27,799 Speaker 1: I agree, a quarter of a millennium into this great experience, 460 00:30:27,839 --> 00:30:34,119 in this exceptional country, this representative democracy, you know, we 461 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:40,599 do have those Fall of Rome style concerns going on, 462 00:30:40,759 --> 00:30:42,720 and that's why, in many ways a lot of people 463 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:48,240 in this country saw November as an existential election. But 464 00:30:48,319 --> 00:30:52,480 I'm curious you noted it. You know, while you have 465 00:30:53,039 --> 00:30:59,240 a Department of Justice clearly politically weaponized in this case 466 00:30:59,279 --> 00:31:03,759 in so many over the last four years. Now on 467 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:09,160 New Year's early New Year's morning in New Orleans, we 468 00:31:09,319 --> 00:31:17,079 have an attack on a celebrating crowd in the French 469 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:23,119 Quarter what appears to be a clear case of terrorism, 470 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,359 and there has been a lot of, I think understandably, 471 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:32,720 a lot of commentary questions about how this could happen, 472 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,759 How could this possibly happen? And when you look at 473 00:31:35,759 --> 00:31:40,480 all of the resources, the time, the energy, and the 474 00:31:40,519 --> 00:31:45,440 focus that has been placed on non violent offenders at 475 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:50,079 the capital four years ago, it is a matter of 476 00:31:51,559 --> 00:31:54,799 misplaced priorities. How do you feel about all of that 477 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,240 given what we have experienced in this country over the 478 00:31:59,319 --> 00:32:00,240 last four years. 479 00:32:02,279 --> 00:32:05,839 Speaker 2: Well, it's absolutely right that their priorities are misplaced. I mean, 480 00:32:05,839 --> 00:32:12,440 they we know that they've deliberately stopped, deliberately stopped targeting 481 00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:16,079 child predators so that they could hunt down January sixth, 482 00:32:16,119 --> 00:32:19,839 defendants with all the resources they have. I mean, but 483 00:32:20,079 --> 00:32:22,880 keep in mind also this is the same old movie. 484 00:32:23,279 --> 00:32:25,559 Oh he was on our radar. This that the other thing. 485 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,680 I mean, I never trust anything that comes out of 486 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,119 the government when it comes to these types of attacks. 487 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,839 I actually recent recently got a call from a defendant 488 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:38,079 I was incarcerated with, and he pointed out that this 489 00:32:38,519 --> 00:32:42,839 suspect he actually worked for a company called Deloitte, and 490 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,720 Deloitte was the contractor that the prosecutors were using to 491 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,200 handle January sixth evidence. I don't trust anything that comes 492 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,640 out about this, this story in particular, But you can't 493 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,319 trust anything now. And this is unfortunate because I remember 494 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,640 a time people did trust law enforce They respected the 495 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:07,440 authority of those in uniform and those who were entrusted 496 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,240 to protect over to protect us. And yet I'm sure, 497 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,960 I don't know if you saw last night, Suddenly the 498 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,880 FBI is interested in get in finding the pipe bomber 499 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,000 from January sixth, and it's a little curious why they 500 00:33:21,039 --> 00:33:25,480 would wait until right before the next January six and 501 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,079 inauguration to suddenly start asking for tips about the pipe bomber. 502 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,640 I don't trust anything that comes out about this. Their 503 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:37,759 priorities are absolutely completely wrong, and I think that this 504 00:33:37,839 --> 00:33:39,720 is all performative. At the end of the day, I 505 00:33:39,759 --> 00:33:41,640 think they're just trying to drive a point home to 506 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:42,200 the country. 507 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,079 Speaker 3: Don't you ever question us? 508 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: And that is the sad and let's face it, dangerous 509 00:33:49,279 --> 00:33:52,240 impact of what we've experienced in this country over the 510 00:33:52,319 --> 00:33:54,839 last four years, as it relates to the j six 511 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,000 political prisoners, as it relates to so many different things 512 00:33:58,039 --> 00:34:02,839 with the Department of Justice, we have understandably lost faith 513 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:07,200 in our institutions because those institutions have performed and acted 514 00:34:07,319 --> 00:34:10,519 so badly. So as we turn the page on a 515 00:34:10,519 --> 00:34:14,679 new administration, the forty fifth president becomes the forty seventh president, 516 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:22,559 a huge defeat for those who want to not only 517 00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:27,480 see Donald Trump in prison, but want to continue these 518 00:34:27,559 --> 00:34:33,280 kinds of abuses of government. Are you a lot more 519 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:40,679 confident these days that you know your fellow defendants will 520 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:48,400 see justice and that there will be ultimately accountability. I 521 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,079 have hope that President Trump will keep his word. I 522 00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:57,719 look forward to the prison, you know, the prison doors 523 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,519 opening up. I look for over to my friends getting 524 00:35:02,559 --> 00:35:06,119 to see the sun again. And I don't know if 525 00:35:06,199 --> 00:35:09,599 restitution or by what means he's going to make people 526 00:35:09,639 --> 00:35:14,079 whole to account for the injustices they've faced. But I 527 00:35:14,159 --> 00:35:16,679 have faith that President Trump will take care of those 528 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:17,559 who've been abused. 529 00:35:19,519 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 3: You know, the concerns I have are not. 530 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:28,159 Speaker 2: Whether or not this new administration will do right by 531 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:32,719 January sixth defendants. My main concern, I actually think is 532 00:35:33,679 --> 00:35:37,400 stopping them from ever doing this again. I don't foresee 533 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,880 President Trump allowing such a thing, but I do know 534 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,119 that there are those who really want to stonewall his 535 00:35:44,199 --> 00:35:48,159 administration like they did the last time. And so I'm 536 00:35:48,199 --> 00:35:51,840 hoping that with the people he's getting into this new administration, 537 00:35:53,039 --> 00:35:56,679 they'll be able to weed out the fifth columnists who 538 00:35:57,039 --> 00:36:01,000 would absolutely love to undermine him with you know, another 539 00:36:01,079 --> 00:36:04,320 syop or a false flag, a color revolution, what have you. 540 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,400 That's my biggest fear. My biggest fear isn't that we're 541 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:09,480 going we're not going. 542 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:10,039 Speaker 3: To get justice. 543 00:36:10,119 --> 00:36:12,800 Speaker 2: I'm confident we will, as you know, you know, with 544 00:36:13,159 --> 00:36:18,440 Patriot Freedom Project. President Trump has stood by January sixth defendants. 545 00:36:18,519 --> 00:36:23,320 He's met with the children of these defendants, and he's 546 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,840 given there, he's given his word, and you know, I'm 547 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,159 I'm I'm hopeful for the future. I can't see the future, 548 00:36:30,679 --> 00:36:34,800 but knowing the kind of man President Trump is, I 549 00:36:35,519 --> 00:36:37,880 think that I think things are going to be okay. 550 00:36:38,199 --> 00:36:39,760 Speaker 3: It can't get here soon enough. 551 00:36:39,679 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 2: But you know a lot of us have waited quite 552 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,320 a while, and you know, waiting a couple more weeks 553 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,880 isn't going to be the end of the world. I 554 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,880 just hope that the country stands with President Trump because 555 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,480 they're going to come at him harder than they ever 556 00:36:55,519 --> 00:36:56,119 have before. 557 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 1: Can only imagine given what he has experienced, what we 558 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,719 all have experienced over the past eight plus years in 559 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,480 this country. Let's talk about the Patriot Freedom Project. I 560 00:37:08,519 --> 00:37:12,400 had the great honor to talk to your aunt, Cynthia Hughes. 561 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:17,800 You know, this is a woman who is committed to justice, 562 00:37:18,199 --> 00:37:24,320 justice for the political prisoners like her nephew, you know, 563 00:37:24,519 --> 00:37:31,280 just swept up into these political prosecutions. What has the 564 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,440 the project been able to accomplish and where does it 565 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:36,280 go from here? 566 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,159 Speaker 2: Well, fortunately, thanks to the generosity of a lot of 567 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:47,400 very caring Americans, you know, PfP was able to help 568 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,320 a lot of j six families with Christmas, with Thanksgiving. 569 00:37:52,039 --> 00:37:55,639 I'm hoping and I'm confident this will be the last 570 00:37:55,679 --> 00:37:59,960 holiday season where it's going to be a question whether 571 00:38:00,159 --> 00:38:03,679 or not defendants or with their kids, or whether or 572 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:05,840 not they can you know, put food on the table 573 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:11,760 going forward. You know, it's hard to say exactly what 574 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:17,719 the future holds. You know, there are questions about you know, lawsuits. 575 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:22,000 Should it be class actions, should it be individual how 576 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,400 what exactly is the timeframe for pardons going to be 577 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:27,719 Nobody knows it quite knows for sure. 578 00:38:29,079 --> 00:38:30,880 Speaker 3: But I do foresee that there are still. 579 00:38:30,639 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 2: Going to be people who need help from from PfP 580 00:38:34,199 --> 00:38:36,800 going forward. A lot of people have still just had 581 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,639 their lives torn apart. Finding work is going to be 582 00:38:39,679 --> 00:38:48,519 a problem, and so it's really hard to downplay just 583 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,920 how much these people's lives have been destroyed. 584 00:38:53,199 --> 00:38:56,039 Speaker 3: You know, when just speaking on my own behalf. 585 00:38:56,039 --> 00:38:58,079 Speaker 2: The first thing you google or the first thing you 586 00:38:58,119 --> 00:39:01,840 find when you google our names is terror, risk, racist, 587 00:39:02,679 --> 00:39:03,760 you know, what have you. 588 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 3: People? People? 589 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 2: You know, here's the thing, you know, a pardon or 590 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,679 even just an end to the prosecutions, it's not going 591 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,880 to change what people have endured. Uh, it's not going 592 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,719 to get people's reputations back. It's not going to undo 593 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,119 the damage. It's going to put you know it's going 594 00:39:26,199 --> 00:39:30,480 to put us off to any further, uh, any further travesties. 595 00:39:30,599 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 3: But you know, I'm hopeful that I'm. 596 00:39:34,199 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 2: Hopeful that pardons will come fairly quickly. I know President 597 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:40,920 Trump said that they're going to look at things on 598 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:45,480 an individual basis. I think that's appropriate. I personally don't think, 599 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,639 you know, federal informants should get pardoned or ANTIFA members. 600 00:39:48,679 --> 00:39:49,159 Speaker 1: That's just me. 601 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:55,360 Speaker 2: But I think that people will be let out, they'll 602 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,519 be able to start resuming normal American lives. I think 603 00:39:59,519 --> 00:40:03,440 the process cutions will come to an end, the Feds 604 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,920 will stop kicking indoors and rating raiding the homes of 605 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,800 old ladies, and I think that we're going to have 606 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:10,960 a return to normalcy. 607 00:40:11,199 --> 00:40:14,559 Speaker 3: But PfP, here's the thing. I think that. 608 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,639 Speaker 2: Patriar Freedom Project is probably going to be needed in 609 00:40:17,679 --> 00:40:21,039 the future, even once the dust settles, because as we've 610 00:40:21,039 --> 00:40:24,199 seen with like this Daniel Penny thing, as we've seen 611 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,519 with President Trump, even with how he's been targeted, I 612 00:40:27,559 --> 00:40:32,800 think that weaponized justice might be the norm now. And 613 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,039 it's it's it's you know, as we just discussed with Rome, 614 00:40:36,079 --> 00:40:40,480 it's not it's not a comfortable thing to confess to yourself. 615 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,440 But you know, I think that going forward, there are 616 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,000 going to be a lot of people when you look 617 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,400 at like, for instance, the Michigan kidnapping plot, with the 618 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,440 you know, the Whitmer case, where those gentlemen were set up, 619 00:40:51,639 --> 00:40:57,840 I fear that our law enforcement, intelligence agencies all of that. 620 00:40:58,159 --> 00:41:03,039 I'm concerns earned that even going forward, Americans are going 621 00:41:03,039 --> 00:41:07,760 to be targeted and trapped, set up and falsely imprisoned. 622 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,199 And I think that, you know, when we know that 623 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,719 groups like the ACLU aren't going to do their job, 624 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,280 I think that we might need alternatives that will. 625 00:41:17,119 --> 00:41:20,639 Speaker 1: Well, no doubt about it, four years of an administration 626 00:41:22,039 --> 00:41:28,239 is not merely enough for the kind of necessary reforms 627 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:33,039 needed in our federal system of justice, that's for sure. 628 00:41:33,639 --> 00:41:37,880 And so you know, you have an opportunity here, but 629 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:43,320 it's a very slim window for Congress to act. Congress 630 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,840 hopefully the members of Congress fully understand the abuses that 631 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:53,039 have occurred in the taxpayer name over the last four years, 632 00:41:53,039 --> 00:41:55,079 in particular in this country, but it's going to take 633 00:41:55,119 --> 00:42:02,480 some time. Certainly. I hope Americans are committed to the 634 00:42:02,559 --> 00:42:05,800 work that it's that it's going to require to make 635 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,360 some real changes, and you touched upon it. The final 636 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,599 question for you is where where do you go to 637 00:42:12,679 --> 00:42:15,840 get your reputation back? I mean, as as you noted, 638 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:21,280 you've been labeled a terrorist, insurrectionist, a Nazi sympathizer. How 639 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,199 do you get your reputation back? And for so many 640 00:42:24,199 --> 00:42:28,239 people caught up in the same kind of narrative as 641 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:35,039 they go to find work after their long prison sentences, 642 00:42:36,159 --> 00:42:38,679 do where do they go to get their their good 643 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:39,440 names back? 644 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 2: Right? 645 00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:42,239 Speaker 1: You know? 646 00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:46,599 Speaker 2: I I've been saying the wheels of justice turned slow, 647 00:42:46,679 --> 00:42:50,880 but the wheels of oppression always come to a halt. 648 00:42:51,119 --> 00:42:53,000 This is going to be unfortunately, it's just going to 649 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:57,480 be a long process, and you know, some of us 650 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:02,239 are going to have a harder time than others. You know, 651 00:43:02,559 --> 00:43:04,599 when it comes to the reputation thing was I was 652 00:43:04,599 --> 00:43:08,280 called a Nazi. But another man I was incarcerated with 653 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:12,320 Julian Cater, he was accused of murdering Officer Brian sick Nick. 654 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:14,800 That's a man that's going to be slandered as a 655 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:19,840 cop killer for some time. So one thing that and 656 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,639 I had you know, we had just addressed earlier that 657 00:43:23,679 --> 00:43:27,320 my conviction was vacated when my felony was vacated. That 658 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,920 also meant that I was no longer on supervised release, 659 00:43:30,559 --> 00:43:33,440 and so now I can freely communicate with those that 660 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,880 I was incarcerated with. And so a lot of the 661 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,719 men that I was locked up with have decided that 662 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,639 we're going to collectively write a book, a multi volume 663 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,239 history series about our time, about our time in the 664 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:50,280 DC Gulag, and so we're going to chronicle all the abuses, 665 00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:56,639 similar maybe to Gulag Archipelago. But you know, I'm hopeful 666 00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,840 that we're going to be the ones who correct the 667 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,719 We're going to be the ones the defendants, will be 668 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:07,559 the ones who will be the authoritative sources on the 669 00:44:07,599 --> 00:44:11,320 history of January sixth, not the prosecutors and not the press. 670 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:16,000 So I think that's one way speaking out, getting more 671 00:44:16,039 --> 00:44:19,199 involved and setting the record straight. I think that's going 672 00:44:19,199 --> 00:44:23,280 to play a big part in the future, and I 673 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,440 actually think it's going to be necessary because, similar to 674 00:44:27,599 --> 00:44:33,280 bad legal precedent, lies and disinformation will also ripple through history, 675 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:35,639 and it's up to those of us who live through 676 00:44:35,679 --> 00:44:38,639 this to set the record straight. And I look forward 677 00:44:38,639 --> 00:44:40,719 to doing that with a lot of the good men 678 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:41,159 that I. 679 00:44:41,079 --> 00:44:44,760 Speaker 1: Was locked up with well, good for you and God 680 00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,760 bless you for taking that on. I think that is 681 00:44:48,119 --> 00:44:54,599 absolutely critical for the record. The people who experienced these 682 00:44:54,639 --> 00:45:00,119 injustices need to have their say, and that is ultimately 683 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:05,519 hopeful that that will indeed come to pass. Thank you 684 00:45:05,559 --> 00:45:09,679 so much for your time today, Tim, and we appreciate 685 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:15,119 your perspective on this anniversary of a very dark day 686 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,480 that led to a very very dark time in American history. 687 00:45:21,119 --> 00:45:24,119 And I wish you godspeed and good luck moving forward. 688 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:26,840 Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Thank you for having me back 689 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,760 on It was great and God bless America. 690 00:45:30,679 --> 00:45:33,400 Speaker 1: Our guest today on the special edition of the Federalist 691 00:45:33,519 --> 00:45:37,599 Radio Hour, Tim Hale. Tim is an Army Reserve veteran 692 00:45:37,639 --> 00:45:43,119 who spent nearly three years incarcerated for nonviolent offenses related 693 00:45:43,159 --> 00:45:46,519 to the January sixth, twenty twenty one riots at the Capitol. 694 00:45:46,559 --> 00:45:51,440 As we said, his felony offense has recently been vacated 695 00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:56,079 because of a Supreme Court ruling that said the government 696 00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:00,519 went way too far. I think as we move forward, 697 00:46:00,559 --> 00:46:03,079 we're going to continue to see more and more evidence 698 00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:08,480 to show that the government went way, way too far. 699 00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,840 You've been listening to another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. 700 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:17,159 I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll 701 00:46:17,199 --> 00:46:20,320 be back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of 702 00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:42,159 freedom and anxious for the fray