Speaker 1: We're in wait.
Speaker 2: Exist sis, welcome back to Midnight Viewing. I am your
Speaker 2: host father alone and joining me once again, all the
Speaker 2: way from Noise Junkies, all the way from the Sunshine
Speaker 2: Cab Company.
Speaker 1: Mister HP, how are you, HP?
Speaker 3: I'm doing great, man, this is We're on a roll.
Speaker 3: Here Fusco fest continues apace.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you said it. This is an unexpected film festival.
Speaker 1: HP and I found ourselves mutual lovers of the film Crossroads,
Speaker 1: and then in discussing that, we discovered we kind of
Speaker 1: like everything mister John Fusco has written. So here we go.
Speaker 1: This is actually our third film in the series. We're
Speaker 1: going in chronological order. So we took Crossroads, followed immediately
Speaker 1: by Young Guns, followed now by Young Guns too.
Speaker 4: It is therefore considered by the Court that will you
Speaker 4: each bunny be had till he be dead?
Speaker 5: Dead dead, You can go to hell, Hell, Hell, You're
Speaker 5: gonna start at amigos.
Speaker 1: You're not dead. Do I look dead?
Speaker 5: The entire country is reading about our territory every day
Speaker 5: in the journals. Should give him a proper burial, and
Speaker 5: they're not reading about our growth towards statehood.
Speaker 6: I never stole a horse from someone and didn't like you.
Speaker 4: Just kill him.
Speaker 3: What they are reading about is a twenty one year
Speaker 3: old delinquent.
Speaker 1: What's come? Who is making us look like imbeciles?
Speaker 5: Politicians, bankers, cattle kings.
Speaker 1: Let's come, I got eighteen dimes in each barrel. Boy,
Speaker 1: you're starting to believe it.
Speaker 4: There ain't about you.
Speaker 1: You rode a fifteen year old boy straight into his grave.
Speaker 1: Best already, Iris B.
Speaker 6: And the rest of us straight to hell.
Speaker 5: I don't take to tenderfoots in my gang.
Speaker 1: And ain't your game, Dave.
Speaker 4: It's how you're a chief.
Speaker 1: One thousand dollars, mister Garrett to catch one and all
Speaker 1: the resources you need to carry out the extermination, just
Speaker 1: playing the game, Doc, defy one, William, pay your money,
Speaker 1: even their horses are crazy, and then the game on.
Speaker 6: Us.
Speaker 3: We're gonna get out of here, Dave. It's your gang.
Speaker 6: Oh my dang, it's your gang.
Speaker 1: It's always been your jang.
Speaker 7: Emilio Estevez, Keeper Sutherland, Lou Diamond, Phillips, Christian Slater, Balthazar Gemmy,
Speaker 7: Alan Ruck, James Coburn, and William Peterson. As Pat Garrett, you,
Speaker 7: I'll make you famous, young guns too, HP if you
Speaker 7: were to come up with a subtitle for our Young
Speaker 7: Guns too?
Speaker 1: What might you have decided on a subtitle?
Speaker 3: Young Guns two? Way better than the first one? I
Speaker 3: don't know. You caught me off guard there, what would
Speaker 3: your could? I think you? I think this is a
Speaker 3: rhetorical question. You've asked me because you have a subtitle
Speaker 3: in mind. So why don't you tell me your subtitle?
Speaker 1: Well? I think the natural one would be Blaze of Glory? Correct,
Speaker 1: that's true?
Speaker 3: What was there?
Speaker 5: Was?
Speaker 3: There was an original subtitle to this movie?
Speaker 1: I actually there is, as much as it would make
Speaker 1: sense because of the popular song by John bon Jovi,
Speaker 1: The actual subtitle for this film is hell Bent for Leather.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they chose not to use it. Now, that's a
Speaker 1: phrase I've always loved. I remember it being used by
Speaker 1: Martini Ranch in their song Reach, remember Bill Paxton's new
Speaker 1: wave band from the mid eighties with that video directed
Speaker 1: by Jim Cameron.
Speaker 6: One as.
Speaker 3: I can see. But when I think of hell Bend
Speaker 3: for Leather, I think of Judas Priest and I don't.
Speaker 3: But there's not much of an association between Young Guns
Speaker 3: and Judas Priest Rob Halford, So I'm glad they didn't.
Speaker 3: I mean young Guns too, is it's not especially interesting?
Speaker 3: Blaze of Glory? I think you're right, would have probably
Speaker 3: been the best alternate subtitle for the movie. I think
Speaker 3: that works beautifully.
Speaker 1: Well. Here's the thing, hell bend for leather? What does
Speaker 1: it mean? I looked it up. There are two opposing
Speaker 1: thoughts with the etymology of the phrase. Now, the first one,
Speaker 1: of course a hell bent. Now that phrase has been
Speaker 1: around forever. Hell bend just means barreling forward without any
Speaker 1: thought or care for one's own safety. But for leather,
Speaker 1: where does that come from? The popular opinion is it
Speaker 1: just means it's reference to the saddle. You're riding the
Speaker 1: saddle hard, you're hell bent for leather, you're riding the
Speaker 1: range all fast. Whereas there is this other theory that
Speaker 1: an animal that is so hell bent on continuing its
Speaker 1: particular behavior that it might as well offer itself up
Speaker 1: to be hided and turned into leather. So if that
Speaker 1: is the definition and the reason John Fusco chose it,
Speaker 1: then I think it is wildly more appropriate than Blaze
Speaker 1: of Glory.
Speaker 3: That would have made sense. But in my little tiny
Speaker 3: brain I still would have seen Rob Halford riding out
Speaker 3: onto a stage on a motorcycle with his leather garb
Speaker 3: olpent alf Lenna.
Speaker 6: Albent.
Speaker 3: So it still would have been a little bit of
Speaker 3: friction there in my mind. But I love your explanation
Speaker 3: of the etymology of the term.
Speaker 1: I never knew that is there any more or less
Speaker 1: friction that than the association with Academy Award nominated song
Speaker 1: Blaze of Glory by Popular Heavy Metal question Mark Remember
Speaker 1: when the question was still in the air. Is he
Speaker 1: a heavy metal guy?
Speaker 3: No? Not one hundred percent, No, he's I mean, I
Speaker 3: hate the term hair metal because that's it just seems
Speaker 3: so much more reductive and it conjures up images of
Speaker 3: one hit wonders.
Speaker 1: We're just talking about poison when we say hair metal
Speaker 1: pretty much glamb metal.
Speaker 3: But I would call I would think bon Jovi's more
Speaker 3: in like pop metal, because it's the thing about heavy
Speaker 3: metal is that everything is dominated and driven by the guitars,
Speaker 3: right the riff, Whereas I would submit that bon Jovi
Speaker 3: and their ilk it's more about the vocal harmonies and
Speaker 3: the vocal melodies. Right. When you think of a song
Speaker 3: like Wanted Dead or Alive, you're not necessarily thinking of
Speaker 3: the guitars. First, you're thinking of the melody. The singing
Speaker 3: is so strong in the chorus, so I think that's
Speaker 3: to me, that's where the dividing line is. It's one
Speaker 3: is about guitars, and one's more about the sweet harmonies
Speaker 3: the vocals.
Speaker 1: Well second to that. Now, before we go any further
Speaker 1: with young Guns too, I do have to address one
Speaker 1: thing that I forgot to mention when we talked about
Speaker 1: young Guns. This is absolutely germane to nothing to do
Speaker 1: with the film or the filmmakers or anything. Just a
Speaker 1: personal thing of mine. Where in my youth I was
Speaker 1: friends with a fella who every time I would go
Speaker 1: out to eat with him, when we sat down, if
Speaker 1: he saw the waiter or waitress approaching with our food,
Speaker 1: he would say to me from across the table, could
Speaker 1: have killed you, but I don't want to kill you, dick.
Speaker 1: I want to eat. For decades he did that, okay, anyway.
Speaker 3: Yeahe was that someone I knew. Was that someone I knew?
Speaker 1: Now you didn't know him, okay.
Speaker 3: I was searching back through our shared friends. I couldn't
Speaker 3: think of anyone who would do that, But that's pretty funny.
Speaker 1: Released on August the first nineteen ninety Darring, Emilio Estevez,
Speaker 1: Keiper Sutherland, Lou Diamond, Phillips, Christian Slater, William Peterson, Alan
Speaker 1: ruck My god, it's a murderer's a row. I thought
Speaker 1: the first movie had a cast Alan Ruck, our d
Speaker 1: call James Coburn, Balthas Argetti, Jack Keith, Robert Knepper, Vigo Mortensen,
Speaker 1: and Bradley Whitford. Oh and Scott Wilson as Governor Lewis Wallace.
Speaker 1: By the way, Governor Lou Wallace, of course wrote Ben
Speaker 1: Hur a fine tradition in the Wallace family of being
Speaker 1: really creative. Anyway, Is he a distant relative? I don't know.
Speaker 1: My name is Malone. With a budget that's twenty million.
Speaker 1: With a budget of twenty million dollars, it eventually grows
Speaker 1: to worldwide forty four and forty four million. Is it
Speaker 1: a bona fide hit? I say it is. No matter
Speaker 1: what happens, this is a fucking great movie. HP. What's
Speaker 1: your first experience with young guns too?
Speaker 3: Unlike the first movie, this one I saw in the theater,
Speaker 3: which it's interesting when you talk about the box office
Speaker 3: gross it. We live kind of in a time where
Speaker 3: if a movie like a Marvel movie, doesn't gross five
Speaker 3: hundred trillion dollars, then it's not a success. So when
Speaker 3: you say it like that that it sounds like a
Speaker 3: modest success. But at the time, if memory serves, it
Speaker 3: was very much in the cultural zeitgeist because the bon
Speaker 3: Jovie song Blaze of Glory was all over MTV. It
Speaker 3: was Academy Award nominated. Like you said, for God's sake, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I saw this in the movies, and since I wasn't
Speaker 3: necessarily like that into westerns at the time, it must
Speaker 3: have been a pretty big deal for me to want
Speaker 3: to go see it in the movies, to take the
Speaker 3: time to see it. So I saw it, and I'm
Speaker 3: damn glad I did, because this is every bit more
Speaker 3: vibrant and bigger in scope, bigger in pretty much everything
Speaker 3: we'll get into than the first movie. So I was
Speaker 3: glad to see it in the movies.
Speaker 1: Before we go further, we mentioned the cast, but I
Speaker 1: want to also mention the filmmakers. Obviously, John f wrote
Speaker 1: this one. He wrote the first one. This one not
Speaker 1: directed by the first film's filmmaker. This one is directed
Speaker 1: by Jeff Murphy, New Zealand's owned Jeff Murphy. He did
Speaker 1: a ton of second unit work on all of the
Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings movies, but long before that, well,
Speaker 1: he did Dante's Peak. Eventually he would eventually do Free
Speaker 1: Jack after this, which I love that movie. But in
Speaker 1: eighty five he did The Quiet Earth, which is fantastic,
Speaker 1: and eighty three he did Utu also. Just anyway, Jeff
Speaker 1: Murphy a superior filmmaker in every single way. Everything that
Speaker 1: lacked in the first film is completely made up for
Speaker 1: here because he is a muscular filmmaker and something about
Speaker 1: coming from Australia helps. I don't know what it is,
Speaker 1: but he understands our landscapes and wants to show it
Speaker 1: to us in a way that maybe we hadn't seen
Speaker 1: since john Ford, or at least in a different way
Speaker 1: than had been presented originally by john Ford.
Speaker 3: Agreed for me, this movie seems more vibrant, more widescreen.
Speaker 3: For lack of a better term, it's the first movie
Speaker 3: might have been more authentic in tone and story. We
Speaker 3: talked about how accurate it was seen back when it
Speaker 3: came out, but this one is more of a classic
Speaker 3: film Western. I read interviews, heard interviews with Estevez where
Speaker 3: he said he wanted it to be more like the
Speaker 3: westerns that he grew up with, and he felt the
Speaker 3: first movie didn't quite measure up in those terms. So
Speaker 3: I think it just feels brighter, more exciting. The action,
Speaker 3: like you said, is more powerful, more muscular. I love
Speaker 3: that term. Everything is just bigger, funnier, more exciting. Better.
Speaker 3: There's actually, by the way, before I go on, there's
Speaker 3: actually an interesting thematic tie in with that. I was
Speaker 3: thinking about this as I'm watching this, So there's a
Speaker 3: wrap around story to this movie which sets it apart
Speaker 3: from the first one. It's this old man Brushy Bill
Speaker 3: Roberts is his name. He's meeting with an attorney played
Speaker 3: by Bradley Whitford. He wants the governor to give him
Speaker 3: a pardon because he was owed to pardon. He's claiming
Speaker 3: to be the real Billy the Kid. But he's old.
Speaker 3: He's an old man, he's like in his nineties. I
Speaker 3: think when this wraparound story takes place and effectively, what
Speaker 3: you have is this lawyer played by Bradley Whitford, wants
Speaker 3: evidence that this is the actual Billy of the Kid.
Speaker 3: So what you have is the movie is him telling
Speaker 3: the story of him being Billy the Kid and going
Speaker 3: on these adventures. What I love about the fact that
Speaker 3: this is bigger, brighter, and more vibrant than the first
Speaker 3: one is it's partly because I think it's Bill telling
Speaker 3: this story, and of course he's going to be embellishing
Speaker 3: it for the benefit of this lawyer. So in my mind,
Speaker 3: that's a good reason why it's so much more brighter
Speaker 3: and more exciting and more widescreen than the first movie
Speaker 3: is because Bill is a unreliable narrator, and he's gonna
Speaker 3: guild his story and make it more exciting, hence more interesting,
Speaker 3: more more punchy than the first movie. That's how I
Speaker 3: saw it. What did you think fought them alone?
Speaker 1: I think including old Billy the Kid as his own
Speaker 1: stories narrator not only allows for a grander canvas of
Speaker 1: the story to be told, but it taps back into
Speaker 1: what I like about Westerns to begin with, which is
Speaker 1: the idea of tales told around a campfire. It is
Speaker 1: part and parcel with all of Western lore. The Coen
Speaker 1: Brothers made an entire film about Western storytelling, and here
Speaker 1: it is delivered in as you said, it allows for
Speaker 1: any historical inaccuracies or liberties taken to be written off handily,
Speaker 1: which is a nice little parlor trick, but not what
Speaker 1: makes it great. What makes it is, first of all,
Speaker 1: it's based on an actual event. There was a brushy
Speaker 1: Bill Roberts who did attempt to secure a pardon as
Speaker 1: Billy the Kid in the nineteen fifties in nineteen fifty.
Speaker 1: So it's not only that's historically accurate, and not only
Speaker 1: does it allow Billy to aggrandize himself in the telling
Speaker 1: of his own tale, but we get this Western tradition
Speaker 1: of storytelling in general, and it allows for a fucking,
Speaker 1: just on a fucking purely technical level, a fucking great
Speaker 1: old age makeup on Emelio Estevez. At the beginning of
Speaker 1: this movie. It's spectacular. Man. I thought like Dick Smith
Speaker 1: had done it. It looked that good. It was a
Speaker 1: little big man quality.
Speaker 3: It's so good. It's easy to see cause I another
Speaker 3: thing I gathered in my research was that the director
Speaker 3: wasn't entirely sure if they should use Estevez in the
Speaker 3: makeup or go with an old man, because he didn't
Speaker 3: know if he could pull it off. But by god,
Speaker 3: when you see him in that old age makeup, it's
Speaker 3: he is unrecognizable as the young vital Emelio Estaves. It's
Speaker 3: so it's such an amazing makeup job.
Speaker 1: And here's why they needed Emilio Estavis in the role,
Speaker 1: because the only thing that's going to betray it is
Speaker 1: the voice. Because the makeup is so fucking good and
Speaker 1: his voice is so great. I forget how much he
Speaker 1: narrates in the movie and how much I enjoy it,
Speaker 1: and it particularly what I enjoy is that this is
Speaker 1: a standalone movie. It's the Young Guns too, But there
Speaker 1: is absolutely zero necessity. Two of you have seen any
Speaker 1: of the first film, and that's in large part thanks
Speaker 1: to Bill's narration. I mean, he lets us know who
Speaker 1: everyone is, and he's introducing us to characters anyway that
Speaker 1: we weren't really privy to in the first film.
Speaker 3: That's true, I mean it can only I mean it'll
Speaker 3: enrich your experience if you're familiar, because obviously he's reintroducing
Speaker 3: you to Doc Scurlock and shot. So it's great. But
Speaker 3: you're right, it is kind of its own self contained story,
Speaker 3: and you're not going to have a trouble following the
Speaker 3: movie if you don't. If you haven't seen the first one,
Speaker 3: it can. It works on its own.
Speaker 1: So what do you think was Brushy Bill Roberts actually
Speaker 1: William H. Bonnie? Did Patrick Garrant shoot another man entirely
Speaker 1: in the presence of McIntyre? And what's say John W. Poe?
Speaker 1: John W. Poe was sent to have they were the
Speaker 1: only two witnesses to the actual shooting of Billy the Kid,
Speaker 1: And it was in a darkened room. And John W.
Speaker 1: Poe is said to have said, immediately following, you shot
Speaker 1: the wrong man.
Speaker 3: It's certainly possible. I mean the I guess when he
Speaker 3: pleaded his case, there were still some surviving associates of
Speaker 3: Billy the Kid that testified on his behalf, saying, yes,
Speaker 3: this is the actual Billy the Kid. If nothing else,
Speaker 3: it makes for our wonderful kind of little myth. What
Speaker 3: was he or wasn't he? It could be. I if
Speaker 3: you're asking what I personally believe, and I'm someone who
Speaker 3: likes myths, I think there's a good chance that he
Speaker 3: was the actual Billy the Kid. I mean, who's to say?
Speaker 1: I want it so badly to be true. However, one
Speaker 1: witness said that Brushy Bill Roberts was illiterate and he
Speaker 1: knew Billy the Kid, and Billy the Kid could read
Speaker 1: and write.
Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting. I didn't know that part.
Speaker 1: And he said Billy was more than functional with Spanish.
Speaker 1: And they said Brushy Bill Roberts could basically string a
Speaker 1: few words together. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I wonder what Fusco believes. Has he ever talked about
Speaker 3: whether he believes that it's true or not, because it's
Speaker 3: an interesting question that he poses.
Speaker 1: I have not spoken to him about that. But hey, everybody,
Speaker 1: we have spoken to John Fusco. He's apparently the well
Speaker 1: we're fans of his. Is he listening to the show?
Speaker 1: I don't know if he is. Hi, John, mister Fusco,
Speaker 1: I don't mean to be familiar with you, but we
Speaker 1: have spoken to him. He referred to us as and
Speaker 1: I'm going to take that to the grave.
Speaker 3: That's amazing. Thank you so much for the support. John,
Speaker 3: appreciate it. If you're listening, of course. But yeah, I
Speaker 3: think it's certainly possible. I don't know. It's a little sad.
Speaker 3: I mean, he died not long after he pled his
Speaker 3: case to the governor.
Speaker 1: Right not long after he was denied the case by
Speaker 1: the governor.
Speaker 3: Certainly, I just I think it's a brilliant It's a
Speaker 3: brilliant device by Fusco to add that rap around story because,
Speaker 3: like you said, and enriches the storytelling altogether.
Speaker 1: We'll get to William Paterson because there's a lot to
Speaker 1: talk about when it comes to Patrick Floyd Garrett. Let's
Speaker 1: talk our newest member of the gang, the leader of
Speaker 1: the gang according to him, arkanstast Dave Rudabah played by
Speaker 1: Christian Slater, a star on the Rise circa nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: Who is that young man who speaks like Jack Nichol
Speaker 1: Sinator is so hand sat Helen Slater's actual brother, because
Speaker 1: they're in that movie together.
Speaker 3: He was probably never bigger than he was at this
Speaker 3: point father alone, because he had already done heav which
Speaker 3: was star making, especially for people of our age. I
Speaker 3: probably saw Heather's five times in the theater. I loved it.
Speaker 3: He was about to have Pump Up the Volume released,
Speaker 3: which was another seminal Christian Slater movie. So he was
Speaker 3: a very welcome sight for me because he was really
Speaker 3: a star on the rise, maybe the biggest star on
Speaker 3: the rise in this picture, the one who was on
Speaker 3: the sharpest descent, if you will, and I gotta say
Speaker 3: he I can't comment on how authentic his performance is,
Speaker 3: but I can tell you that to me, he seems
Speaker 3: to be the most effortless. He just is so smooth
Speaker 3: his delivery for somebody. This is maybe his third or
Speaker 3: fourth movie, Like it's not as if he was a
Speaker 3: huge star at this point. He's so fucking charismatic, and
Speaker 3: he's so smooth, and he's funny, and he pulls off
Speaker 3: the action really well. I think he is terrific in
Speaker 3: this movie.
Speaker 1: They end up trying to pain him as a bit ineffectual,
Speaker 1: but because it's Christian Slater, he seems to be an
Speaker 1: actual contender for leadership of that gang. It's as you said,
Speaker 1: he seems to have moved effortlessly into this film. He
Speaker 1: seems like he's always been there, like he was part
Speaker 1: of the Lincoln County War that we somehow never saw
Speaker 1: and just flushed with confidence. It's kind of crazy. He's
Speaker 1: just a movie star effectively, but at the same time
Speaker 1: giving a fucking really good performance. Because Arkansas, Dave Rudabat
Speaker 1: is a cocksucker, Like that's the switcheroo here is like
Speaker 1: we're giving Christian Slater and his endless charm layered on
Speaker 1: top of a completely self obsessed and just downright nasty
Speaker 1: human being, much worse than Dirty Steve.
Speaker 3: That's one thing that I wanted to ask you about
Speaker 3: because Dirty Steve, as we talked about in the previous
Speaker 3: episode of Young Guns, he is portrayed in the movie
Speaker 3: as the dirtiest, smellius, most disgusting, and cowboy. And it's
Speaker 3: my understanding that Dave Ruteba was supposed to be every
Speaker 3: bit as filthy who refused he had an aversion to water,
Speaker 3: so he wouldn't bathe. That's the only thing that I
Speaker 3: don't get from Christian Slater's performance, Like he doesn't slather
Speaker 3: on the grime and the filth the way that Dermott
Speaker 3: mulroney did. But I guess that's quibbling. Historically, I suppose.
Speaker 1: I understand that he was also known as dirty Dave Rudabah,
Speaker 1: but I've heard that was applied after his death, so
Speaker 1: it's not just sour grapes on some people's parts. Oh
Speaker 1: you know what else about him? He never bathed, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that Dave Rudeball. He never bathed. He was an Arkansas David,
Speaker 1: but he was dirty Dave Rudba so good, by the way, HP,
Speaker 1: Before we go any further, I do three impressions. One
Speaker 1: of them is in this film, are you ready ready?
Speaker 1: A should get one hundred dollgies for his trigger finger.
Speaker 3: You do a pretty good Owen Wilson too. I will
Speaker 3: say that.
Speaker 1: I don't do it. Owen Wilson.
Speaker 3: You do wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but everyone does Wow. That's not I don't count
Speaker 1: that as one of my three impressions. One of them
Speaker 1: is a guy who dies first in Young Guns.
Speaker 3: He is literally the first guy shot by Billy.
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's that's the mister Christian Slater. Now before
Speaker 1: we get to William Peterson as Patrick Floyd Garrett Alan
Speaker 1: Ruck as William Hendry French so good.
Speaker 3: So the name is great too, Hendry William French. He
Speaker 3: just sounds like such a in their parlance, a tenderfoot,
Speaker 3: but he is so he has this wonderful hangdog quality
Speaker 3: that really adds a lot to the picture, because this
Speaker 3: picture doesn't suffer for a lack of confidence in charisma
Speaker 3: with all the leads. And Hendry comes in because they're
Speaker 3: trying to raise men to form another gang so they
Speaker 3: can kind of complete this this trek. And he's the
Speaker 3: only one they could find. He's a broken down farmer
Speaker 3: whose wife had died to the smallpox and his farm
Speaker 3: was taken by a Chisholm where we meet James Coburn's character.
Speaker 3: He's I don't know, there's something so sweet. It's a
Speaker 3: little bit like we talked about in the first picture,
Speaker 3: Douc Scurlock watching all the horrors of Billy and his
Speaker 3: sort of rampage play across this poor individual. That's a
Speaker 3: little bit of that with with Hendri William French. Also
Speaker 3: because he kind of comes in the first time he
Speaker 3: tries to pull his rifle, he fumbles it and almost
Speaker 3: gets Billy killed, essentially. But he's such a sweet guy.
Speaker 3: You're really you're kind of afraid for him and whether
Speaker 3: he's gonna make it in the company of all these
Speaker 3: desperate men. So I just I think it's a side
Speaker 3: of him that we didn't see prior to this, and
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 1: He's a farmer, he has absolutely no business being with
Speaker 1: these men. Yeah, but you know what, this is part
Speaker 1: of the Old West. These are part of the cowboys.
Speaker 1: We've been mythologizing, and here's part of the greatest mythology.
Speaker 1: A cowboy telling his own story, and even he can't
Speaker 1: skimp over the fact that there were a lot of
Speaker 1: desperate human beings back then, and I think nobody embodies
Speaker 1: that better than Alan Ruck. He better than anyone in
Speaker 1: the first film. Like the tragedy of the Charlie Bowdrey,
Speaker 1: Casey Schimasco character doesn't hold a candle to what's going
Speaker 1: on here. It's sad that Charlie Bowdrey got shot and
Speaker 1: his wife was widowed. It's a fucking tragedy that Henry
Speaker 1: French is still alive after he's lost everything and has
Speaker 1: now found himself among lunatics and desperate men.
Speaker 3: But he's so redeemable. I mean, he basically, spoiler alert,
Speaker 3: helps save Chavez at the end of those Chavez meets
Speaker 3: his own maker, but there's a scene where him and
Speaker 3: Chavez riding away and he's trying to keep Chavez going
Speaker 3: even though Chavez has died moment by moment, and I
Speaker 3: just there's a really likable quality to Alan Ruck that
Speaker 3: I think shines through really well in this picture.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, he doesn't need a nickname anymore, thank you. Now
Speaker 1: other members of the cast. Zargani shows up as Tom o'folliard.
Speaker 1: Now that is a historical figure, Tom will Folliard, the youngest,
Speaker 1: the young the younger man who ends up being a
Speaker 1: shot by Pat Garrett. He wasn't twelve. They're what they're
Speaker 1: doing here is I think what Fusco is doing here
Speaker 1: is they've turned this character into the audience in a
Speaker 1: way or the what the impact was of the legend
Speaker 1: of Billy the Kid. It's actually drawing people to him,
Speaker 1: and they play with that a lot in this film,
Speaker 1: like they sort of even Billy says it a few times.
Speaker 1: See I'll make you famous. He knows full well the
Speaker 1: level of fame he has achieved and the level of
Speaker 1: renown and what it's doing. They're writing books about him.
Speaker 1: This kid is is mesmerized by the myth of Billy
Speaker 1: the Kid. Evidently the actual human was twenties but still
Speaker 1: pretty young, I suppose, But he was more.
Speaker 3: He was much more of a contemporary of Billy than
Speaker 3: this wide eyed knafe that gets caught up in the
Speaker 3: gang and meets his an untimely end. He was, he
Speaker 3: was a young man, let's.
Speaker 1: Say, indeed he was. Well, they look gonna get some
Speaker 1: fictional fictionalization here in the In this retelling of the
Speaker 1: story Jack Keejo HP, I love Jack Keejo. Okay, it's awesome.
Speaker 3: He's the bookkeeper mcdonnuts.
Speaker 1: In Midnight Run, Jack Kehoe is the Joey Pants the
Speaker 1: He's the mole who keeps reporting to the mob all
Speaker 1: of Robert De Niro's movements throughout the United States. And
Speaker 1: my fucking god, he's in one of the greatest scenes
Speaker 1: in cinema history, Brian de Palma's owed to the Battleshipican
Speaker 1: on the step scene at the end of Untouchables. He's
Speaker 1: the bookkeeper.
Speaker 3: So good, so good. Jack Keijo is great in this.
Speaker 3: I forgot how great he is. I don't. I can't
Speaker 3: speak to the veracity of the care character or any
Speaker 3: of that, but he's comic relief. He's funny, and he
Speaker 3: lightens up because he's effectively part of the group led
Speaker 3: by Peck Garrett to try and track down Billy and
Speaker 3: bring him to justice and Pat Garrett.
Speaker 1: Pat Garrett, recognizing the effortlessness with which Billy has achieved fame,
Speaker 1: needs to do it himself and so hires his own biographer.
Speaker 1: Once again, just Fusco like pulling in all of the
Speaker 1: myth and the storytelling and the self mythologizing that's going
Speaker 1: on here in the Old West that we're still feeling
Speaker 1: to this day.
Speaker 3: It's a great little character bit because Pat Garrett's not
Speaker 3: above a little bit of self aggrandizing of his own.
Speaker 3: He wants, he knows that this is this could be
Speaker 3: an important story. He wants to burnish his own legends.
Speaker 3: So yeah, he hires his own biographer to come in.
Speaker 3: But he's again, in the parlance of the characters, he's
Speaker 3: the tenderest foot of the bunch. He can't ride for
Speaker 3: a mile without having to. He called take a movement,
Speaker 3: basically take a shit.
Speaker 1: It's on top of a horse now for the first
Speaker 1: time in his life, basically for any length of time.
Speaker 1: I bet he rode in a wagon to get to
Speaker 1: his little office.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but he's really good. Everybody. I could say this
Speaker 3: about everybody, but he's fantastic.
Speaker 1: Now, before we get to the genius of William Peterson,
Speaker 1: that is Patrick Floyd Garrett, Vigo Mortensen. This was my
Speaker 1: first experience with Viego Martinson. I'm sure it was yours.
Speaker 1: Now when we want we talked about young guns. I
Speaker 1: mentioned that as a kid, I thought that the dirty
Speaker 1: Steve character was the one I was drawn to most
Speaker 1: because it felt like the most realistic of the cowboy
Speaker 1: characters presented to us in this film. It was John W.
Speaker 1: Poe played by Viego Martinson. He looks like he fucking
Speaker 1: walked off of a Dagerio type so good.
Speaker 3: He's so he's a great counterpoint to Pat Garrett because
Speaker 3: there's this doubt in your mind as to whether Pat
Speaker 3: Garrett is actually really going after Billy or if he's
Speaker 3: letting him on a slip away and out of friendship.
Speaker 3: I know the friendship was kind of invented for the movie.
Speaker 3: But Poe is the one who calls out Pat Garrett
Speaker 3: and says, what are you doing? He'll be long gone?
Speaker 3: Are you sure you want to get this guy? You
Speaker 3: know what? You're just leading this on a wild goose chase.
Speaker 3: But the best line that he has is, of course,
Speaker 3: when Tom is lying dying having been shot by Pat Garrett.
Speaker 3: And I think this was historically accurate too. What does
Speaker 3: he say to the kid as he's.
Speaker 1: Lying there dying, take your medicine, son? That is a
Speaker 1: historically accurate line of standing it portrayed in other films.
Speaker 1: I believe it's in also in Pat Garrett and Believe
Speaker 1: the Kid, where John deby Poe's portrayed much more of
Speaker 1: a brutish character, just like a leg breaker. Almost here
Speaker 1: he seems like a man of letters who has found
Speaker 1: himself out there. And yes, he definitely is the actual
Speaker 1: law man. It seems here Pat Garrett is more interested
Speaker 1: in chasing the Kid away than capturing him. Here he's
Speaker 1: trying to force him down to Mexico in here, and yes,
Speaker 1: I agree that the friendship is a bit more invented here.
Speaker 1: But these are two humans who evidently had nicknames for
Speaker 1: one another and one attended the other's wedding. So yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe they weren't as compadre as you as one like
Speaker 1: is presented overall, but they certainly were buddies.
Speaker 3: I mean probably. I mean, but it's let's talk a
Speaker 3: little bit about William Peterson. Like I we.
Speaker 1: Mentioned, we're not getting to William Peterson, the genius of
Speaker 1: William Peterson as Patrick Floyd Garrett yet, because we have
Speaker 1: to talk about they're fucking huge, fucking cast member in
Speaker 1: this movie, and that is James Coburn as John Chisholm.
Speaker 1: Because there exists a scene in this movie where Patrick
Speaker 1: Garrett is seduced by John Chisholm in order to get
Speaker 1: him to chase his old friend down and murder him
Speaker 1: for money. And John James Coburn has already done this scene.
Speaker 1: He was Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid. One could
Speaker 1: actually take those two scenes and cut them together. James
Speaker 1: Coburn as John Chisholm seducing James Coburn as Pat Garrett.
Speaker 3: Well he if Fusco even writes a line for Coburn
Speaker 3: that is a direct callback to Pack Arrett and Billy
Speaker 3: the Kid. When so Billy goes to the Chisholm ranch
Speaker 3: basically trying to shake him down for money so they
Speaker 3: can go down to Mexico, and Chisholm just says, basically
Speaker 3: tells him to go fuck off. But the line I'm
Speaker 3: gonna paraphrase it is something to the effect of you
Speaker 3: can take that and shove it up your ass and
Speaker 3: set fire to it. That's literally what he said as
Speaker 3: Pat Garrett in Pack Garrett and Billy the Kid. It's
Speaker 3: a wonderful moment, and Coburn is just the coolest to me.
Speaker 1: Come on, everything he says is so fucking fantastic in
Speaker 1: this movie. Don't you do it, Billy, your billy, the
Speaker 1: kid too duck and you shut it? And you guy,
Speaker 1: I don't know you all are I am New Mexico.
Speaker 3: You gotta cut you gotta cut that in. That's so
Speaker 3: good his sonorous voice.
Speaker 1: I'll put in his whole scene here. It's so fucking good.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 1: He's fucking electric everything he does. He's just so magnetic.
Speaker 1: I could watch James Cober do anything. Remember in like Flint,
Speaker 1: Remember the fucking Flint movies. Holy shit, man, you.
Speaker 6: Just killed yourself.
Speaker 1: Fannie, who you are?
Speaker 4: Who you called yourself? The scourge of New Mexico. Word
Speaker 4: by god, I have New Mexico and you are dead.
Speaker 3: He did a movie with James Brolan called High Risk.
Speaker 3: Did you ever see that? It's a good movie. It
Speaker 3: was I think it was nineteen eighty. He was so
Speaker 3: James Brolan is basically with a bunch of his buddies,
Speaker 3: and I think they've lost their jobs, they don't have
Speaker 3: any money, it's the gas crisis, what have you. So
Speaker 3: they get this brilliant idea that as a desperation move,
Speaker 3: they're going to go to some country in South America
Speaker 3: and rip off a drug dealer and take the money
Speaker 3: back to America and set themselves up, and James Coburn
Speaker 3: plays the drug dealer that they try to rip off,
Speaker 3: and of course things don't go quite as according to plan.
Speaker 3: It's not a violent like it's a comedy more or less.
Speaker 3: But he's really good in it. I mean, he's good
Speaker 3: in everything. It's James Coburn for goodness sake.
Speaker 1: And the character of John Chisholm is sorely missed in
Speaker 1: the first Young Guns movie. But if you have to wait,
Speaker 1: it's worth waiting for James Cobern.
Speaker 3: Well he was. Chisholm was like an ally of Tunstall, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I mean. That's why they're able to
Speaker 1: come up on him at all. That's why he's able
Speaker 1: to be familiar as he is with them. I mean,
Speaker 1: but Billy is with Chisholm because they were partners at
Speaker 1: one point basically except you're right, said Billy the Kid
Speaker 1: in this timeline in these films was a fucking psychopath
Speaker 1: who just went around shooting everybody when they were supposed
Speaker 1: to be bringing justice.
Speaker 3: Well it again, we said this about the first movie.
Speaker 3: Billy the Kid is nothing less than a lou cannon
Speaker 3: that everybody is afraid of including the members of his
Speaker 3: own gang because they never know what I mean. This movie,
Speaker 3: he's a little more sensitive. I think that's a deliberate
Speaker 3: attempt to make him a little more relatable and more vulnerable.
Speaker 3: But make no mistake, like he goes to visit Chisholm
Speaker 3: to try to shake him down effectively, and when Chisholm
Speaker 3: basically turns him down flat, he Billy basically says to him, Okay,
Speaker 3: then I'm just gonna murder one one of your men
Speaker 3: for every five dollars that you owe me, you owe
Speaker 3: me five hundred dollars. And he can cox this. There's
Speaker 3: this little bait and switch where he it looks like
Speaker 3: he's gonna basically duel one of the one of one
Speaker 3: of Jim's men do a gunfight, and but it's a
Speaker 3: bait and switch because he just has Dave Rudabad just
Speaker 3: shoot the guy in cold blood. There's actually no contest.
Speaker 3: He just says, he sets this thing up, this elaborate
Speaker 3: ruse of all right, I'm gonna put my guns down
Speaker 3: here and I'm gonna count to three, and if you
Speaker 3: get to year gun before I get to mind, you
Speaker 3: can kill me. But I guarantee you're not gonna make it,
Speaker 3: And he's right. He knows he's not gonna make it
Speaker 3: because he already worked it out with Dave beforehand. Just
Speaker 3: shoot the guy when I gave you the signal.
Speaker 1: The two fucking lunatics in the fucking gang are just
Speaker 1: working together because Doc Scurlock wasn't going to do that,
Speaker 1: nor was Chevez.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because there again, those two are the most damaged
Speaker 3: from the events of the first movie. They may be
Speaker 3: happy that Billy rescued them from the pit and Lincoln
Speaker 3: where they were going to be hanged, but beyond that,
Speaker 3: they still know they know Billy, They've seen what he
Speaker 3: can do, what he's capable of.
Speaker 1: Okay, so before we get to the magnificence that is
Speaker 1: William Peterson as Patrick Floyd Garrett HP, let's talk about
Speaker 1: where our characters are as this movie starts. Now, Chevez
Speaker 1: when we meet him, he's in jail, right, That's where
Speaker 1: we meet him. He's been captured. We don't know what
Speaker 1: he's been up to all these years. The main character
Speaker 1: that we've returned to here is of course just I
Speaker 1: it Doc Skurlock, who we find is now a teacher
Speaker 1: in New York City all the way across the United States.
Speaker 1: He's cleaned up, he's got a haircut right, he's got
Speaker 1: a natty suit on. He's teaching children. They're having fun.
Speaker 3: He's teaching them their letters. He looks like a perfectly
Speaker 3: wonderful teacher. He's like a dandee. Basically, he's dressed in
Speaker 3: a nice suit. Apparently he got married with a woman
Speaker 3: from the first picture and they have a child. Now
Speaker 3: he's settled down.
Speaker 1: And they fucking drag him back because Governor lou Wallace
Speaker 1: wants to settle all the debts from the Lincoln County War. Basically,
Speaker 1: he wants Billy the Kid because Billy the Kid is
Speaker 1: out there making too much of a name for himself,
Speaker 1: all that fame we mentioned, and that has to stop.
Speaker 1: So they're going to put everyone on trial, and no
Speaker 1: matter where they are and who, they have to pull back.
Speaker 1: So they pull back Josiah, they pull back Chevenz, and
Speaker 1: what they really want is Billy the Kid. But Billy
Speaker 1: when we first meet him, he's off with Patrick Floyd
Speaker 1: Garrett played by William Peterson. What do you think about
Speaker 1: William Peterson in this movie? HV He's awesome.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's William fucking Peterson to live in Die
Speaker 3: In La. I mean, you don't get any cooler than
Speaker 3: that he plays. Look, I mentioned that in the previous
Speaker 3: episode that Pat Garrett is in the first movie. It's
Speaker 3: not William Peterson though, it's Patrick Wayne, John Wayne's son,
Speaker 3: and it's not a very he appears twice in the movie.
Speaker 3: It's very small, but he wouldn't have pulled off what
Speaker 3: William Peterson can pull off in this movie. You have
Speaker 3: to believe in the bond between Billy and Pat Garrett.
Speaker 3: You have to see him get seduced and believe that
Speaker 3: he can do the calculus in his mind of I'm
Speaker 3: going to be betraying my friend for what a thousand
Speaker 3: dollars basically, and he's going to become what he despised,
Speaker 3: which is the law. He's got to clean himself up
Speaker 3: and become what he beheld. And William Peterson is phenomenal in.
Speaker 1: This Yeah, because we see the outlaw, and we see
Speaker 1: the guy who just wants to fucking settle down and
Speaker 1: have a normal life. And we see the best friend
Speaker 1: of this kid he's kind of taken under his wing
Speaker 1: and had adventures with and we see the guy who
Speaker 1: fucking doesn't give a shit about this kid because the
Speaker 1: kid won't shut up and won't fucking do as he's told.
Speaker 1: He needs to calm down and just leave for a while.
Speaker 1: Just calm down and leave, would you so? And we
Speaker 1: get that all within the tortured brow of William Peterson.
Speaker 1: And he's one of those actors that one of the
Speaker 1: reasons I just love movies is when you can get
Speaker 1: a close up of an actor and see them thinking.
Speaker 1: William Peterson is always thinking, man, and this is just
Speaker 1: like Emilio Estevez is my favorite portrayal of Billy the Kid.
Speaker 1: This is my favorite portrayal of Patrick Garrett, including James Coburn,
Speaker 1: and James Coburn's portrayal of him is awesome in Pat
Speaker 1: Garrett Billy the Kid. But William Peterson fills the guy out.
Speaker 1: He feels real, He doesn't feel like a myth in
Speaker 1: this story of stories about stories. Everyone here is giving
Speaker 1: fully grounded, fully realized portrayals and the casual nature with
Speaker 1: which Christian Slater just sort of eased his way into
Speaker 1: this movie, like Peterson does a thousand times with more grace,
Speaker 1: like he feels like he's always been he made me.
Speaker 1: He made me think he was in the first movie
Speaker 1: in those cameos well.
Speaker 3: And it would be easy for us to dislike Pat
Speaker 3: Garrett because he's the one who's trying to kill the protagonist,
Speaker 3: the one that we are supposed to be rooting for.
Speaker 3: We're supposed to root for Billy to get down below
Speaker 3: and make it to New Mexico or to make New Mexico.
Speaker 3: But Peterson is so likable, and it's you can't help
Speaker 3: but kind of root for him too, even though he's
Speaker 3: basically doing the government's dirty work to try and take
Speaker 3: out Billy, because he's making too big of a name
Speaker 3: for himself. He should be still running with Billy and
Speaker 3: being in the gang, but he made his choice.
Speaker 4: We don't.
Speaker 3: But that's probably the best thing for me about his
Speaker 3: performance is that even when he's doing things that we
Speaker 3: don't like or support, he does some pretty awful things
Speaker 3: in the name of the law, in the name of
Speaker 3: his mission, but you still can't help liking the guy
Speaker 3: because he's so damn good in this role.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a character who I'm rooting for. I
Speaker 1: shouldn't be. So he's the antagonist, he's the villain of
Speaker 1: the piece, and even if he's even if this is
Speaker 1: like the Wild Bunch sort of a situation where you know,
Speaker 1: the former comrade is leading the posse against his old
Speaker 1: army buddies, which is kind of what this is, or
Speaker 1: that Wild Bunch basically stole that concept.
Speaker 3: Billy is an anti hero, right, so you're supposed to
Speaker 3: be rooting for him, but we're not what we are.
Speaker 1: But it's That's what's so fucking good about this script.
Speaker 1: That's so good about this fucking movie is that I'm
Speaker 1: rooting for the antagonist and protagonist fucking equally. That's that's ridiculous,
Speaker 1: particularly considering I came to this movie having seen the
Speaker 1: first film, so like I've had some at least time
Speaker 1: for Billy live in my brain a bit and get
Speaker 1: used to him, because he is a much more mellowed
Speaker 1: character in this film, and I don't think I would
Speaker 1: root it as hard for Lincoln County War Billy as
Speaker 1: I do this Billy, who has seen action, who doubt
Speaker 1: who now himself actually understands the meaning of the word pals.
Speaker 1: No one is more excited than him when the gang
Speaker 1: gets back together, even if the circumstances are fucking horrendous.
Speaker 3: He can't contain himself when he finally rescues Doc and
Speaker 3: Chavez from the pit, pretending to be a lynch mob. Right,
Speaker 3: he can't contain himself. He's so happy to see his
Speaker 3: old writing buddies. The following scene, where all he's supposed
Speaker 3: to be doing is shooting Doc Spurlock's chain his handcuffs
Speaker 3: so that he can be free, he can't stop. He's like,
Speaker 3: damn it, it's good to see you, Doc, I'm so
Speaker 3: happy to see you guys. And Doc's just can you
Speaker 3: please just shoot the chain? Billy, But you're right. He's
Speaker 3: so happy to have the gang back together, these guys
Speaker 3: that he that they went to war together, right, and
Speaker 3: he's happy to just have people there that have his
Speaker 3: back as he has their back. It's a really nice scene.
Speaker 1: There's something to be said about enthusiasm. If a character
Speaker 1: is a bit joyful and enthusiastic, I'm pretty much gonna
Speaker 1: follow them no matter what they're doing. It's the ed
Speaker 1: Wood phenomenon. I think they it doesn't matter what the
Speaker 1: product is, just so long as they're totally committed and
Speaker 1: having a great time. And Billy is never having a
Speaker 1: better time than he is right in this scene, and
Speaker 1: that the sort of banter and repartape between these guys,
Speaker 1: it feels so familiar. It feels like they've known each
Speaker 1: other for fucking ever. We'll get back to pack care
Speaker 1: and everything. But Emiliasts has never looked better than in
Speaker 1: this movie. This is it? Right?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, great man? He looks like that. I thought his
Speaker 1: portrayal of Billy in the first film was, like I said,
Speaker 1: it was my favorite of that up until this. But
Speaker 1: for some reason, this portrayal of him, the long hair,
Speaker 1: the sort of open shirt, the kind of like the
Speaker 1: not is it a lessening? Is it a softening of
Speaker 1: the psychosis? He's not as crazy here. He seems a
Speaker 1: little more playful in this film. And maybe that's historical
Speaker 1: or maybe it's not. But I really like this version
Speaker 1: of Billy, and I think Amelia is perfect for this version,
Speaker 1: a mischievous Billy.
Speaker 3: Yeah. But I think that all ties in with two
Speaker 3: points that we made earlier, which is number one, that
Speaker 3: Esteves wanted a classic Western, and I think his portrayal
Speaker 3: is much more in line with a classic portrayal of Billy,
Speaker 3: the kid of a cowboy. He's not He's not as
Speaker 3: crazy of a psychopath, as he wasn't the first one, right,
Speaker 3: But if you're talking about how good he looks and
Speaker 3: how dashing he is in the part, I'm still gonna
Speaker 3: say that that could be a deliberate choice, because again,
Speaker 3: this is being told through the prism of Bill Roberts
Speaker 3: relating this story to the lawyer. So I'm gonna put
Speaker 3: this also in the category of he's of course, he's
Speaker 3: gonna make himself look bigger, better, more handsome, more, more funny,
Speaker 3: more heroic, all of those things.
Speaker 1: It works awesome, HP. I was working at a movie
Speaker 1: theater in Somerville, Massachusetts when this movie came out, So
Speaker 1: I saw this movie a lot. Now, this movie began
Speaker 1: the month of August, and it ended with the directorial
Speaker 1: debut of Emilio s. Devez Men at Work with Charlie she.
Speaker 3: I thought his debut was Wisdom.
Speaker 1: His second feature film was Men at Work.
Speaker 3: Sorry, I just I felt the need to break in there.
Speaker 3: Sorry about that.
Speaker 1: Now, they had already Charlie Sheen and Amelia Estevez had
Speaker 1: already been in Young Guns together. But of course it
Speaker 1: was a sort of good. It had been kind of
Speaker 1: a different scenario because they weren't playing in any way
Speaker 1: friends or relations or anything. They were as disparate characters
Speaker 1: as you could get. So when Men at Work came out,
Speaker 1: do you remember the trailer for Men at Work? The
Speaker 1: teaser trailer for Men at Work, It's a slow motion shot,
Speaker 1: one shot of just the garbage truck going by, and
Speaker 1: you see that it's like Charlie Sheen driving and then
Speaker 1: on the back it's Amelia Estivez And basically the beat
Speaker 1: to when the levy breaks is playing right, and it
Speaker 1: was just like him and him, that's right, it's coming
Speaker 1: and it was fucking awesome and I was choked to
Speaker 1: see it. But the only reason I bring up Amelia
Speaker 1: estive is in his directorial, his filmography as a director.
Speaker 1: In the late nineties, there was this proliferation of wasn't
Speaker 1: the seventies porn scene cool? We got like Boogie Knights,
Speaker 1: and we got Wonderland with mister Val Kilmer as John Holmes,
Speaker 1: and then kind of lost in the shuffle was this
Speaker 1: TV movie, a Showtime movie called Rated X about the
Speaker 1: Mitchell brothers, the brothers the porn Kings of San Francisco,
Speaker 1: who owned a chain of cinemas and then they started
Speaker 1: making movies and then they ended up. It was a
Speaker 1: fucking murderous situation. And so that movie is starring Charlie
Speaker 1: Sheen and Emelio Estaviz, directed by Emelia Westaviz, and it
Speaker 1: is the best fucking summation of the porn scene of
Speaker 1: that time. Like Boogie Knights was big and flashy and
Speaker 1: everybody fucking loved it and I did not. And then
Speaker 1: all of those movies fell down, and Amelia Westavez gave
Speaker 1: us a movie that it's a fucking showtime movie. So
Speaker 1: it's like made in Toronto or Canada. Basically, it's supposed
Speaker 1: to be San Francisco. It has no budget at all.
Speaker 1: It looks great. Anyway, I just wanted to point out
Speaker 1: if you haven't seen Rate at everyone, go watch Rated X.
Speaker 3: I have not, I will.
Speaker 1: I'll cover it on the Malone's weekly round up this week.
Speaker 3: Please do that sounds I remember it. I don't think
Speaker 3: I had showtime at the time, so there's no way
Speaker 3: I could have seen it. But I remember hearing about
Speaker 3: it and thinking, oh, that's kind of but you're right.
Speaker 3: There was a whole glut of these the dawn of
Speaker 3: porn movies and TV movies and things like that. So
Speaker 3: for me, this got lost in the shuffle. But I
Speaker 3: will rectify that.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I did not even mention, for fuck's sake,
Speaker 1: miss Jenny Wright.
Speaker 3: Glorious.
Speaker 1: You know when I mentioned Jack Keho, and I've mentioned
Speaker 1: another podcast that you and I have done where there
Speaker 1: was an actor would get a bunch of roles at
Speaker 1: a certain time and place, And because we were of
Speaker 1: a certain age and watching cable television all the time,
Speaker 1: and we're seeing these people all the time, we assumed
Speaker 1: they were huge and that was going to last forever.
Speaker 1: Such is the case of Jenny Wright from about nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty two. It's about nineteen Jenny Wright seemed to be
Speaker 1: in a lot of things, and she's great in all
Speaker 1: of them, and then she disappeared. But thank god, she
Speaker 1: was great in all of those things, including this one.
Speaker 1: She's got one scene and all of these actors that
Speaker 1: we keep mentioning, all these fucking heavy hitters, come in
Speaker 1: with one scene and they fucking knock it out of
Speaker 1: the park. This is a movie where we had half
Speaker 1: a dozen leads, including three leads from the previous movie,
Speaker 1: who all need to be telling our story. A new
Speaker 1: lead on top of that in his antagonist, and we
Speaker 1: keep getting fucking awesome character moments sprinkled throughout, including Jenny
Speaker 1: Wright as a madam at a fucking at the White Horse.
Speaker 1: Who oh, here's another thing I want to mention. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: We'll double back to Jenny Wright. And in a second at
Speaker 1: the beginning, I mentioned that I had a friend who
Speaker 1: liked to say a phrase from Fucking Young Guns to
Speaker 1: me all the time when I sat down to eat,
Speaker 1: I don't want to kill you this want to eat right.
Speaker 1: And in the first film, also I've Casey Schamasco's character
Speaker 1: Charlie Bowdrey was the first time I heard the word pugilist.
Speaker 1: So that movie taught me pugilist. This film taught me
Speaker 1: the phrase to the man and here born, because that's
Speaker 1: how Doc Scarlock refers to her. He lets her know
Speaker 1: that she's not special, right she is to the man born.
Speaker 1: He toasts her absolutely, And I was like, what the
Speaker 1: fuck is that? And I remember sitting in the theater thing,
Speaker 1: I need to look that up when I get out
Speaker 1: of this theater. Anyway, Jenny Wright.
Speaker 3: Was, She was that a real person in real life.
Speaker 3: Jane Greathhouse.
Speaker 1: It makes sense that, you know what I'm going to say,
Speaker 1: probably given Fusco's a lot of the dialogue here for
Speaker 1: Billy the kid has taken from like court transcripts and
Speaker 1: stuff he's actually said about himself and others. So I
Speaker 1: would not put it past Jane Greathhouse being a real
Speaker 1: human who existed in some form or another.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's It's like you said, it's really only just
Speaker 3: the one scene where Billy and the gang essentially just
Speaker 3: kind of take a time out. They go to this
Speaker 3: saloon slash whorehouse that she is the proprietor of because
Speaker 3: she has known she's been friends with Billy and Pat
Speaker 3: from the past. Right, But she's so oh, she's fantastic,
Speaker 3: she's beautiful, she's tough, she has the greatest kiss off
Speaker 3: line to the whole town. When they've basically burned down,
Speaker 3: like Pet, Garrett basically betrays her in the in a
Speaker 3: really terrible way. I mean, he basically. It's actually an
Speaker 3: interesting scene because he comes on very sweetly and relates
Speaker 3: how they're sort of naive misadventures when they were young.
Speaker 3: Right when they were he said, there was no law
Speaker 3: and we were naked as jay birds, and it was
Speaker 3: beautiful and she turns it around on him and says,
Speaker 3: you know what, I I just give you a little secret.
Speaker 3: It used to make me hot, Pat Garrett, but now
Speaker 3: I don't share my bed with the law, and you
Speaker 3: think that's the kiss off. But then he says something
Speaker 3: to the effective, Yeah, and I don't associate with whores
Speaker 3: anymore neither, So we.
Speaker 1: Both return on Patrick Floying Garrett played by the fantastic
Speaker 1: William Peterson.
Speaker 3: It's a heel turn, that's exactly what it is. Because
Speaker 3: he could have just walked right out of her whorehouse
Speaker 3: and said, all right, if I can't get Billy here,
Speaker 3: if he's gone on, whatever, just if you find him,
Speaker 3: let me know. But he doesn't do that, does he.
Speaker 1: No, Because he has to burn his past, because she
Speaker 1: is his tarnished past, and he has to be respectable now,
Speaker 1: and she's just a reminder of what a fucked up
Speaker 1: person he is, as fucked up as Billy is to
Speaker 1: this day.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So he sets fire to her establishment in the
Speaker 3: name of piousness and morality. I was happy to see
Speaker 3: that she didn't. She escapes. She it's not as if
Speaker 3: she died in the continy.
Speaker 1: She has some money in the bank somewhere or something,
Speaker 1: and at least a change of clothes buried somewhere.
Speaker 3: Well, what I didn't notice the first I don't know
Speaker 3: ten times I saw this is that great climax to
Speaker 3: the scene is she walks out of the saloon or
Speaker 3: whorehouse and she's come out completely naked to shame the
Speaker 3: whole town and to just basically shame them because.
Speaker 1: She says, hypocrites.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, they're hypocrites. So she leaves naked. He
Speaker 3: tells the town you can kiss my ass, and she
Speaker 3: drives off, or she rides off bareback on a horse.
Speaker 3: But what I didn't notice was directly following her is
Speaker 3: essentially like a stagecoach loaded with her belongings presumably, so
Speaker 3: that was kind of encouraging, Like she didn't lose everything
Speaker 3: in the fire. She is leaving with everything she can
Speaker 3: carry to begin again in another town.
Speaker 1: Basically, good fuck pack Garret for that shit. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: know better.
Speaker 3: That was his. That's definitely the moment to your point
Speaker 3: where you really do you're really supposed to hate him,
Speaker 3: because up to that point there was a line that
Speaker 3: he wouldn't cross when he was trying to take down
Speaker 3: Billy and he crossed the line there when he basically
Speaker 3: burned down her establishment. And now you sort of realize, well,
Speaker 3: Pats made his choice and things don't look so good
Speaker 3: for Billy anymore.
Speaker 1: HP. Before we get to the magnificence that is the
Speaker 1: score of this film, just wanted to mention the cameos.
Speaker 1: Notice them in the pit, Yes, but with Doc Scarlock,
Speaker 1: who's down there, buddy.
Speaker 3: Well, two people. One, the one that you actually see
Speaker 3: a little bit clearer, I think, because he actually has
Speaker 3: a little bit of an action seen, is John bon
Speaker 3: Jovi himself. He is a prisoner who tries who basically
Speaker 3: tries to strangle one of the deputies and he gets
Speaker 3: ended up getting shot, falls back into the pit, dies presumably,
Speaker 3: But right next to as Doc and Chavez are talking
Speaker 3: about their predicament and how they're gonna get out of it, Well,
Speaker 3: it's mister John Fusco. He's branded. He has a j
Speaker 3: C branded on him for John Chisholm. Presumably.
Speaker 1: I thought it was Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3: No, I think he. I thought I read somewhere that
Speaker 3: he was branded with John Chisholm's yeah initials basically.
Speaker 1: Right, So he was a cattle, he was a cattle thief.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly exactly. But it's cool to see him there
Speaker 3: because we know what he looks like, and there he is.
Speaker 1: I believe Nick Gome, director of Loss of Gravity, is
Speaker 1: also in the movie somewhere here. And speaking of phrases
Speaker 1: that I just adored in this screenplay, the fuscare throws
Speaker 1: in when Billy meets with Governor lou Wallace and he's
Speaker 1: told he's going to get a piece of cake. He
Speaker 1: stops the guy and says, no, the one with the
Speaker 1: sweet frost. So now anytime I eat it cake, I think, ooh,
Speaker 1: sweet frost.
Speaker 3: I like that too, because that's how they would describe
Speaker 3: it in the eighteen hundreds, right, not frosting. It's frost,
Speaker 3: the one with the sweet frost. And I love that
Speaker 3: the butler brings it to him on this beautiful silver
Speaker 3: dish basically, and Billy just grabs the cake with his
Speaker 3: bare hands and just starts eating it.
Speaker 1: No, he grabs it with his bare hand, but then
Speaker 1: he puts out his pinky. He's being fancy.
Speaker 3: Well that and also so he makes a deal with
Speaker 3: the governor. The deal that the governor presents to him
Speaker 3: is all you have to do is go to Lincoln
Speaker 3: and testify against the men that killed John Tunstall. And
Speaker 3: that's all I want. But in return, here's a little detail.
Speaker 3: I have to make it look like I'm arresting you.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna make it look like I got to take
Speaker 3: you in and bubblah blah. It's he's laying a trap
Speaker 3: for Billy. But in the meantime, while he's still in
Speaker 3: the company of the governor, has him doing like gun tricks,
Speaker 3: like tricks with his pistol, like.
Speaker 1: He's excellent gun tricks. By the way, fucking fanteam gun trigs.
Speaker 1: How is he gonna do it with one bullet left?
Speaker 3: But it's he's gathered the governor has all these other
Speaker 3: functionaries and people in the government and what have you,
Speaker 3: and they're all it's it's like Billy's a trained monkey
Speaker 3: and they're just like, yeah, bravo. Because he shoots like
Speaker 3: three like what he uses five bullets out of his
Speaker 3: gun as a revolver have six bullets, I assume, And
Speaker 3: he shoots all but three candles on a candlelabra and
Speaker 3: he says, well, oh yeah, you got you got one
Speaker 3: bullet left. You have two bullets left. What are you
Speaker 3: gonna do and he shoots the Candlelabra so it goes sideways,
Speaker 3: and then the last bullet he shoots a street line through.
Speaker 3: I mean he probably I assume these guys are that
Speaker 3: good they can do that, but it makes for a
Speaker 3: fun scene for sure.
Speaker 1: I don't care if they could or they didn't. And
Speaker 1: I'm going with I'm going with Brushy. Bill Roberts is
Speaker 1: telling us this story again, and then the labry around
Speaker 1: and then I shot all three candles with one bullet.
Speaker 3: Neil, Yeah, there's another that reminds me of another great
Speaker 3: bit when he's supposed to be shooting the chain for
Speaker 3: Doc Scurlock and he's like, hold still, Doc, I got
Speaker 3: this infection in my elbow that makes my hand go
Speaker 3: and he almost like points the gun at his head.
Speaker 3: I just he's so funny and charismatic. I just adore
Speaker 3: Amelia Westave in this.
Speaker 1: This is my favorite role of his. Honestly, he's so
Speaker 1: fucking good. He is Billy the Kid. Everyone could just
Speaker 1: put it away, Okay, Fucking Alan Silvestri is the newest
Speaker 1: addition to this film, and what a welcome addition delivering
Speaker 1: for me. HP I gotta say, my favorite Western score
Speaker 1: of all time.
Speaker 3: It's one hundred and fifty percent more authentic than what
Speaker 3: we got in Young Guns Won, because I mean, if
Speaker 3: I'm being honest, it's not totally immune for the sort
Speaker 3: of modernization of the score. There's still some drums and.
Speaker 1: Some electric there, and you know what, I love.
Speaker 3: It, but it works. It feels like a more authentic
Speaker 3: Western score, like what you would expect from something like
Speaker 3: I mean not to make a direct comparison, but like
Speaker 3: a Sergio Leone picture like Once upon a Time in
Speaker 3: the West. This feels CinemaScope, This feels big Silvestri had
Speaker 3: I think he'd already done Back to the Future three
Speaker 3: by this point, so it's not as if he was
Speaker 3: unfamiliar with the tropes of a Western score. And I
Speaker 3: don't know, I'm pretty sure Jon bon Jovi had some
Speaker 3: hand in the score. I don't know to what degree,
Speaker 3: because I think maybe it might be that he's just
Speaker 3: quoting Blades of Glory here and there. But the score
Speaker 3: is awesome. It works for the picture. It makes it
Speaker 3: feel like a traditional Western. And again I keep harping
Speaker 3: on this, but that's what Emilio Estevez and presumably Jon
Speaker 3: Fusco wanted for this second pick. Sure they wanted a bigger, better,
Speaker 3: more fun movie, and that's what they That's what they provided,
Speaker 3: that's what they made.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the score is just fucking fantastic. Silvestri, of course,
Speaker 1: is one of the best composers going out there. I
Speaker 1: love his Captain America score recently, of scores like that,
Speaker 1: that that's the Captain America first Avenger. In fact, he's
Speaker 1: doing all the Avengers movies. Now he's the guy for me.
Speaker 3: He if I think about it, He's probably done the
Speaker 3: score for probably three of my top ten movies of
Speaker 3: all time, at least maybe more for me. One of
Speaker 3: his most underrated scores is for a movie that he did,
Speaker 3: a Kevin Reynolds movie called Fandango. Now you know that
Speaker 3: it's one of my favorite movies of all time, and
Speaker 3: it's I'm not gonna that movie has a lot of
Speaker 3: songs in it, like actual Carol King and all these musicians.
Speaker 3: It's not entirely orchestrated music, but the things that he
Speaker 3: does in that movie are really unique. They're unlike almost
Speaker 3: anything else in his catalog. So anybody who wants something
Speaker 3: a little different, a Sylvestri score with a little bit
Speaker 3: of a spin on it. Go check out Fandango.
Speaker 1: He also basically gave us the sound of the Predator
Speaker 1: because that the little musical cue you hear every time
Speaker 1: a Predator shows up is his from the original Predator movie.
Speaker 3: Fuck You're right?
Speaker 5: Wow?
Speaker 3: I forgot that he did Predator.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, death becomes her I mean the Forrest Gump,
Speaker 1: for God's sake, the Quick.
Speaker 3: In the Dead.
Speaker 1: He came back and did another Western, and it doesn't
Speaker 1: sound like either of his other westerns. And it's how
Speaker 1: mac god Alan Silvestri cast?
Speaker 3: How is it? By the way, how is it? Let
Speaker 3: me ask a question of being honest here? How is
Speaker 3: it that Alan's Maybe it's just me not recognizing this,
Speaker 3: but how is Alan Silvestri's name not spoken with the
Speaker 3: same kind of reverence as like a Hans Zimmer or
Speaker 3: some other composer? Why is he or Danny Elfman exactly?
Speaker 3: I don't get it. He is a marvelous composer. I
Speaker 3: don't understand why he's not considered one of the top
Speaker 3: echelon film composers.
Speaker 1: How is Alan Silvestri? He can do anything Danny Elfman
Speaker 1: can do, and anything Hans Zimmer can do, and do
Speaker 1: it better than both of them. How is he not
Speaker 1: well known? I'm going to guess publicist lack thereof.
Speaker 3: Avengers. We're forgetting avengers.
Speaker 1: He's not out there screaming his own name. Man, it's nuts,
Speaker 1: but he does. That's what it is. He's not Chuck
Speaker 1: Jones in it. He's not hey, everybody, look at me.
Speaker 3: Look. Everything he does is in the service to the picture.
Speaker 3: Nothing he does is it calls so much attention to
Speaker 3: itself that it takes you out of the movie. I
Speaker 3: think that's all you want from a composer, right enrich
Speaker 3: the film experience without calling attention to yourself. I can't
Speaker 3: I almost can't think of anybody who does it better
Speaker 3: in those terms than Alan Silvestry.
Speaker 1: He also did a Million Ways to Die in the West.
Speaker 1: That's a terrible movie. That's a good score.
Speaker 3: I didn't know he did so many Westerns. That's fascinating.
Speaker 1: Yeah, God bless And like I said that, this scar
Speaker 1: to me is just gorgeous. And I gotta say, for
Speaker 1: a long fucking time, I was really mad because if
Speaker 1: you wanted to get the soundtrack to Young Guns Too,
Speaker 1: you were basically just buying a bon jovie record with
Speaker 1: one track, one paltry little track, guano town of fucking
Speaker 1: Alan Silvestrie. Let me tell you something that no one
Speaker 1: was happier that they finally released the score than me.
Speaker 3: Well, you know what, now that we're talking a little
Speaker 3: bit about the soundtrack, I'm really curious to get your
Speaker 3: take on the bon Jovi song. We haven't really delved
Speaker 3: into that. We talked about the fact that he made
Speaker 3: it and it was a big hit, nominated for an oscar,
Speaker 3: But what's your take on the song? It was so omnipresent.
Speaker 1: I am glad that they did not go with the
Speaker 1: original idea, which is they were just going to use
Speaker 1: that Wanted Dead or Alive song on a steel Horse
Speaker 1: eye ride. Bullshit. Sorry fans of Wanted Dead or Alive.
Speaker 1: I don't like that song. This is a way more
Speaker 1: per song for the film, and I know it's more modern,
Speaker 1: obviously it's a rock song, but no more or less
Speaker 1: modern than anything Bob Dylan did for Pack Aaron Billy
Speaker 1: the Kid. I love the video for it, A drive
Speaker 1: in on top of a butte in the john Ford
Speaker 1: monument Valley like scenario. Like music. We'll talk about the
Speaker 1: song in a second, but music videos at the time
Speaker 1: when they were for films, basically it would just be
Speaker 1: a performance thing and then they would cut scenes of
Speaker 1: the movie in. Here they fucking integrated a drive in,
Speaker 1: which is so part and parts of the whole Western
Speaker 1: kind of mythos. So setting that and having the film
Speaker 1: play that it was just fucking great. And they liked
Speaker 1: that fucking drive in movie screen on fire by the
Speaker 1: end of it. So I watched the video a lot.
Speaker 1: I've heard the song a lot, and I like the song. Actually,
Speaker 1: it sounds like I was like leading up to smacking
Speaker 1: it down or something. But it's my favorite Bond Jovie song,
Speaker 1: if I'm being honest.
Speaker 3: It's a very clever rewrite, because let's call it what
Speaker 3: it is. It's it is every bit a rewrite of
Speaker 3: Wanted Dead or Alive. It's a better verse. I shouldn't
Speaker 3: have wanted Dead or Alive. But it's not as if
Speaker 3: he strayed that far from the formula. But it's a
Speaker 3: great pop rock song. He's got Jeff Beck playing guitars
Speaker 3: on that, which is fucking bananas when you think about it.
Speaker 3: I mean, Jeff fucking Beck, the man's a legend, and
Speaker 3: he's playing on a bon Jovi track, and he's killing
Speaker 3: it right, the slide guitar and everything. It's awesome, it
Speaker 3: really is. And it's another one. I don't know that
Speaker 3: we've kind of gotten past the era where the soundtrack
Speaker 3: was so important to a movie's success. It was a
Speaker 3: promotional tool that could really make or break in some
Speaker 3: cases a movie. And it's hard to argue that the
Speaker 3: success of that song didn't impart some mojo to that
Speaker 3: movie and make it a popular movie even more popular
Speaker 3: as a result. I don't think we have. I can't
Speaker 3: think of the last movie where the aside from maybe
Speaker 3: like a Disney movie like Frozen.
Speaker 1: Or something, but it was a Star is Born.
Speaker 3: Shallow. Okay, I guess that's true. I guess so.
Speaker 1: I guess that tradition still continues to this day. But
Speaker 1: sometimes it feels naked and just a bald attempt to
Speaker 1: make some money and to get you to get to
Speaker 1: the theater to so you can get even more money
Speaker 1: out of you. This felt like a film that's in evocation,
Speaker 1: or rather a song that's an evocation of the film.
Speaker 1: It's meant to and body, and I think it does
Speaker 1: that true.
Speaker 3: I guess the point that I was leading up to
Speaker 3: is there was a time when you'd watch the Oscars
Speaker 3: and the best song was like a murderer's row of
Speaker 3: popular music and big hits from that year's worth of movies.
Speaker 3: I can't remember the last time that I watched the
Speaker 3: Oscars and you got Against All and Against All Odds
Speaker 3: by Phil Collins. That was a fucking huge song, so memorable,
Speaker 3: and that was an Oscar nomination.
Speaker 1: You know what that lost to? I just called to
Speaker 1: Say I Love You by Stevie Wonder. I love Stevie
Speaker 1: Wonder HP. But that fucking song was written before that movie,
Speaker 1: and the rules of the Oscars were supposed to be
Speaker 1: that the song was written specifically for that film, So
Speaker 1: that's disqualified against all odds.
Speaker 4: One.
Speaker 1: I'm Quentin Tarantino ing the history of the Oscars right now.
Speaker 3: I'm looking at the list of nominees and the winner
Speaker 3: from that year's Best Original Song nineteen ninety one. Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna read you the list of songs and the
Speaker 3: movies they came from, and don't cheat, you tell me
Speaker 3: which one was the winner. Okay, yep, we'll start. Obviously,
Speaker 3: Blaze of Glory from Young Guns two, a song I
Speaker 3: can't believe this. Shelle Silverstein had a song from the
Speaker 3: Postcards from the Edge soundtrack called I'm checking out. Don't
Speaker 3: remember that one.
Speaker 1: Promise me you'll write if you remember it actually, Okay,
Speaker 1: go ahead.
Speaker 3: Promise me you'll remember from The Godfather Part three somewhere
Speaker 3: in my memory from Home Alone as a John Williams song.
Speaker 3: I remember that one, okay, And sooner or later, I
Speaker 3: always get my man from Dick Tracy. Stephen Sondheim.
Speaker 1: That's the winner.
Speaker 3: You're fucking right. I can't believe you guessed that. I'm
Speaker 3: gonna look.
Speaker 1: I love I remember the performance. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1: I remember Madonna saying, tell me about it. General schwartzkof
Speaker 1: just dating it. Hey, everybody, there's a fucking there's a
Speaker 1: military action going on right now now.
Speaker 3: I love Stephen Sondheim, don't get me wrong. But if
Speaker 3: I'm looking at that list of nominees and I'm thinking
Speaker 3: of the one that is going to live on beyond
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety one in the decades since honestly, I'm not
Speaker 3: trying to blow smoke young guns.
Speaker 5: Two.
Speaker 3: Blaze of Glory is the hit from that list of
Speaker 3: songs that should have won.
Speaker 1: It's the clear winner. It's the clear winner. It is
Speaker 1: the song about the movie for the movie that describes
Speaker 1: the movie, draws eyes to the movie, it evokes the movie.
Speaker 1: It's all it is. The movie. Yeah, a superior version
Speaker 1: of an initial draft. Right, This Young Guns Do is
Speaker 1: better than Young Guns Blaze of Glory is better than
Speaker 1: Wanted Dead or Alive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's I guess. It's just it should have won.
Speaker 3: It should have won. I can't say it any better
Speaker 3: than that. But that's It's not as if this is
Speaker 3: a unique occurrence in the oscars. How many times we
Speaker 3: look into, oh, that should have why did that win?
Speaker 3: That's terrible? But in this case, I think there's a
Speaker 3: case to be made there. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 1: HP. We've never really spoken of the Chevez and we're
Speaker 1: not gonna hear other than the fact that Chavez, as
Speaker 1: a real human being, did not meet any white horse
Speaker 1: for many years. He died in the twentieth century, as
Speaker 1: did Josiah doc Scarlock. He lived until what the twenties
Speaker 1: or nineteen twelve, I believe something like that. So here's
Speaker 1: the deal. Evidently, scheduling conspired against the film, and Keiper
Speaker 1: Sutherland insisted that Doc Skurlock ends his journey at dying
Speaker 1: and helping Billy the Kid escape. None of that happened.
Speaker 1: Charlie Bowdrey's the one who died during that particular gunfight,
Speaker 1: but he died in the first film, so instead Doc
Speaker 1: gets it here. I guess Fusco fought against it, as
Speaker 1: he should have, because this is this I maintained from
Speaker 1: the first film to this one. This is really Doc's story,
Speaker 1: and Doc's the one who lives to tell the tale, really,
Speaker 1: and that should have happened here.
Speaker 3: And as we've already pointed out many times, Fusco is
Speaker 3: a stickler for historical record. That's why the first one
Speaker 3: was considered so so accurate to the times that they
Speaker 3: lived in. So I can and it must have galled
Speaker 3: him to have to write in the death of a
Speaker 3: man who didn't die for another thirty years or something.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, I'm sure he recognized that
Speaker 3: there's no way around this. To have Sutherland in the picture,
Speaker 3: they had to make certain allowances, and there might have
Speaker 3: been a little bit I mean famously, I know Harrison
Speaker 3: Ford fought for years to have Han Solo killed off
Speaker 3: as a condition of him playing the part, and I
Speaker 3: could see an element of that, not that this was
Speaker 3: a part like Han Solo, which was a career defining
Speaker 3: role for Key for Sutherland, but I could see him
Speaker 3: also being like, you know what, I don't know if
Speaker 3: I want to keep making these Western pictures forever. I
Speaker 3: don't want to be known as that guy. So you
Speaker 3: kill me and I'll do the picture.
Speaker 1: So or it's something as Yeah, it's as dramatically appealing
Speaker 1: as he's the one who finishes the game, so to speak.
Speaker 3: It's a great death scene. Having said that, he goes
Speaker 3: out swinging.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we feel it because we love dok.
Speaker 3: It's but he gets that real wild bunch slow motion
Speaker 3: death right because he's already been shot once he's dying,
Speaker 3: and he makes the conscious decision I will go and
Speaker 3: I will distract them and you guys can get away.
Speaker 3: And he gets out there and he gets blown to pieces.
Speaker 3: You see every squib firing off on his body and
Speaker 3: he falls face first into the dirt. Who what actor
Speaker 3: wouldn't want to have that glorious Western death right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, not just like shuffling off to Texas to like
Speaker 1: live his life and become an old man. I want
Speaker 1: to if I'm in a western Now, that's not how
Speaker 1: I want to go out.
Speaker 3: I want to go out shooting.
Speaker 1: God damn right. Dragged by a horse? Maybe, I don't know.
Speaker 3: There was that accident. Did you hear about that? There
Speaker 3: was this really it was actually life threatening that happened
Speaker 3: to Lou Diamond Phillips. You have you never read this
Speaker 3: or heard about Oh.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Chavez. We've never talked about Chavez.
Speaker 3: We're not going to start now. No, Apparently there was
Speaker 3: a he was he was called upon to do an unwritten,
Speaker 3: unrehearsed stunt on a horse, and he got on the horse.
Speaker 3: I think he it was during the escape from the
Speaker 3: pit where he had a rope around his neck, and
Speaker 3: apparently Emili Westavez shot his gun as part of the scene.
Speaker 3: The gun spooked the horse that Lou Diamond Phillips was riding.
Speaker 3: He fell off the horse. He got dragged. Oh, I
Speaker 3: don't know how long, but you basically he could have died,
Speaker 3: he could have choked basically because he got caught up
Speaker 3: in the horse in this rope. He broke his arm
Speaker 3: pretty badly.
Speaker 1: And that's why he stabbed.
Speaker 3: That's why he gets stabbed by Dave Rutiba to hide
Speaker 3: the fact that he had broken his arm.
Speaker 1: I loved when he got stabbed, so I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't wish harm on anyone. I'm sorry lou Diamond Phillips
Speaker 1: got harmed in the making of the film. That shouldn't
Speaker 1: happen to anybody. But if that gave us that fucking
Speaker 1: Rudiba stab and Chavez through the arm during a fight
Speaker 1: in a Native American graveyard, then fucking no, I shouldn't.
Speaker 1: I still can't advocate anyone getting hurt, but it.
Speaker 3: Paints Chavez is a badass because he gets stabbed through
Speaker 3: the arm and the motherfucker barely flinches.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, you know what we haven't talked about. Jabz
Speaker 1: is a fucking awesome character. Man. The scene at the
Speaker 1: end of Young Guns when he's talking to Dirty Steve
Speaker 1: and he's how many times I've held a play up
Speaker 1: to your throat when you've been asleep.
Speaker 3: I love that. I'm glad I didn't kill you.
Speaker 1: And he's great here and I believe him. And I
Speaker 1: thought as soon as you started talking about a white
Speaker 1: horse at the beginning, I was like, oh man, they're
Speaker 1: gonna kill Chavez.
Speaker 3: It's a damn shame because he is a badass. He's
Speaker 3: the one who's always twirling the knife around in his hand,
Speaker 3: which I guess was also a little bit of a
Speaker 3: historical license because apparently he was every bit as good
Speaker 3: with the rifle as he was with the knife. But
Speaker 3: Lou Diamond Phillips, he's not often talked about either, but
Speaker 3: he's a very good actor. He has tons of charisma.
Speaker 3: He's got that fucking million dollar smile. He's tough, you buy.
Speaker 3: Even though we've talked about this, he's not actually Mexican
Speaker 3: Native American. He's Filipino with some Scotch Irish and a
Speaker 3: little bit of I think Cherokee on his father's side.
Speaker 3: But he you know, he had he was able to
Speaker 3: play a lot of different types of characters ethnically. He
Speaker 3: played obviously Richie Vallens, he played Chavez, he was he
Speaker 3: was played with.
Speaker 1: A fucking gang banger in that fucking Teach Me to
Speaker 1: Read movie.
Speaker 3: Stand and Deliver. Yeah, what is he like? I'm not
Speaker 3: going to forget it.
Speaker 1: My friend Tom Richmond was the director photography on that movie.
Speaker 3: I think I did know that.
Speaker 1: Actually he was wildly proud of that film because that
Speaker 1: film actually, like affected some change in the LA County
Speaker 1: and LA school districts.
Speaker 3: It's easy to poke fun at that film because it
Speaker 3: is a little facile and sort of pat but but
Speaker 3: it's a well made movie. You're really rooting for these kids.
Speaker 3: And like you said, he plays Lou Diamond Phillips plays
Speaker 3: a really tough gang banger in that movie, and you
Speaker 3: buy him, Like the guy could play Richie Allens, he
Speaker 3: could play a gang member, he could play a Mexican.
Speaker 1: You just fucking yeah, Okay, I get it. He's something.
Speaker 1: I believe him he is. Okay, I guess he's Lebanese. No,
Speaker 1: he's Mexican. Okay, is he boy? He's Hondura. Okay, he's
Speaker 1: charming too.
Speaker 3: I can't think of a movie that I've seen with
Speaker 3: Lou Diamond Phillips where I didn't think, oh, he's really
Speaker 3: good in that. He did that terrible movie with Mark
Speaker 3: Wahlberg where he was a hitmand He was the best
Speaker 3: thing in that fucking movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that was a terrible movie. He was good.
Speaker 3: He was the like I said, he was the best
Speaker 3: thing about it. He was having fun. He was a badass,
Speaker 3: a comical badass. He was so good in that.
Speaker 1: All right, well, and he's really good in this.
Speaker 3: I mean, we're poking fun a little bit, but he's
Speaker 3: every bit as good as any of the other regulators
Speaker 3: in both.
Speaker 1: I love this gang, this gang because this isn't even
Speaker 1: the regulators anymore. This is regular un there's two point
Speaker 1: zero maybe because a lot of them are dead, but
Speaker 1: this gang in particularly now if Pat Garrett was with them,
Speaker 1: then it'd be even better, let's face it.
Speaker 3: But one of the things I love is we talked
Speaker 3: about the first movie where there's a scene towards the
Speaker 3: end where Billy is kind of having fun with this
Speaker 3: bounty hunter, basically toying with him until he finally kills him.
Speaker 3: And the fact that Doc Skurlock the other ones are
Speaker 3: still sort of afraid of Billy and they're just kind
Speaker 3: of all right, Billy, whatever you say, Billy. There's a
Speaker 3: moment in this where Henry, French and Chavez have made
Speaker 3: it to Fort Sumner and Billy arrives and Billy comes
Speaker 3: in and he's likes, hey, boys, how are we And
Speaker 3: Henry just looks at him and says, you're still alive.
Speaker 3: And he's not saying it like a happy I'm so
Speaker 3: happy you're here. It's this great mirror moment from the
Speaker 3: first movie with they're actually kind of horrified that Billy
Speaker 3: is still alive.
Speaker 1: Oh no, this has to continue now.
Speaker 3: And Chavez is kind of just looking back at him
Speaker 3: as Henry says this, and you can see it on
Speaker 3: his face. The man is dying and he's, oh, fuck
Speaker 3: this guy again. Oh my god. As much as their
Speaker 3: pals and they're in the same gang, they're still fucking.
Speaker 3: They still don't really like Billy, Let's be honest.
Speaker 1: It's on the old Blackbird, the Mexican Blackbird.
Speaker 3: That's another We talked about this a little bit.
Speaker 1: We talked about yeah you're yeah, please.
Speaker 3: I want to I just want to point out that
Speaker 3: this is a little touch that I noticed how people
Speaker 3: eagle eared listeners to this podcast will remember we talked
Speaker 3: about Crossroads. As Father Malone mentioned earlier, this is the
Speaker 3: second movie I can think of in the Fusco Verse
Speaker 3: where there's a there's a journey, a trek that's predicated
Speaker 3: on a lie. Because in Crossroads, the whole notion of
Speaker 3: Willie Brown taking Eugene down to Mississippi so that he
Speaker 3: can teach him this lost Robert Johnson's song It's a Lie.
Speaker 3: There's a scene where he tells Eugene the truth and
Speaker 3: it's kind of a heavy scene. Well, the same thing
Speaker 3: happens in Young Guns too. Billy says to them, we
Speaker 3: got to take the Mexican Blackbird down to Old Mexico.
Speaker 3: He claims that it's this broken trail only he and
Speaker 3: other couple guys know about and they can make it down.
Speaker 3: So they're all following him because of this knowledge of
Speaker 3: this trail. But eventually Billy levels with him and says,
Speaker 3: the Mexican Blackbird ain't a trail. It's a prostitute that
Speaker 3: I knew and wherever it's a nickname I had for
Speaker 3: this prostitute. There's no trail down to Old Mexico. We're
Speaker 3: not going to go down to Old Mexico. We're basically
Speaker 3: going in circles. Here is crushing news.
Speaker 1: Doctor would have kicked him in the face.
Speaker 3: He would have gone berserk because it would have been
Speaker 3: yet another It was just so frustrating for him. I
Speaker 3: just thought, that's interesting that we have in both of
Speaker 3: these John Fusco movies. We have this journey that's dedicated
Speaker 3: on a lie that is eventually exposed and kind of
Speaker 3: crushing for all people involved. I don't know, it's it'll
Speaker 3: be interesting to see some of these other movies I'm
Speaker 3: not familiar with. Is there a betrayal of sorts in
Speaker 3: the Babe in there.
Speaker 1: In Hidalgo that he convinces everyone that he's bringing a
Speaker 1: camel and he brings a horse.
Speaker 3: Is that a heavy moment at the end of the
Speaker 3: movie where they have to reconsider their allegiances.
Speaker 1: No, it's right as soon as the race begins. Do
Speaker 1: we get that reveal? Because it's really hard to disguise
Speaker 1: the fact that he's actually got a fucking horse.
Speaker 3: I love that term the Mexican blackbird because it sounds
Speaker 3: like it could be just a name for some weirds anything.
Speaker 1: It sounds like it could be a taco stand. What
Speaker 1: are you talking about, Billy? What are you doing to us? Man?
Speaker 1: Why are you running us in circles so you can
Speaker 1: continue to have a fucking good time?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Do you know what Mexican blackbird actually is? Apparently
Speaker 3: what it's a zz top song ah from nineteen seventy five. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't know what it's about, never heard.
Speaker 1: It, but about a Mexican horror of course.
Speaker 3: It's off of what album is it off of?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Fandango is the name of the album.
Speaker 1: Apparently, Oh my god, not to Gueo.
Speaker 3: No, not eliminator, not that.
Speaker 1: One, not the one with your beers in a mustache
Speaker 1: that Dean Semler was a director of photography on both movies.
Speaker 1: The first film is so muted into like earth toned,
Speaker 1: and now we get the sort of john Ford like
Speaker 1: red rock gorgeousness with sunsets blazing and fucking the Old West.
Speaker 1: As you said, if their intention was to make everything
Speaker 1: they didn't in the first Young Guns, they accomplished it. Man.
Speaker 1: They lapped that first movie. And they've got a guano
Speaker 1: town here.
Speaker 3: Now what is the deal with the guano town? They're
Speaker 3: actually they're mining for back guano?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what are they?
Speaker 3: What does that use?
Speaker 1: Do you not have guano? It's delicious?
Speaker 3: Is it a fertilizer thing? Is that why?
Speaker 1: There's a great line there is a town in Ecuador
Speaker 1: called Guana.
Speaker 3: I knew that.
Speaker 1: Fertilizer. Of course, there you go.
Speaker 3: I did not know that. Dave Rudabah has a great
Speaker 3: line after the guy says they're like, what are you
Speaker 3: mining guano? Well, what's guano, batshit, and he goes I've
Speaker 3: been I have been to Silver Town, I've been to
Speaker 3: Turquoise Town, but I ain't never been to a bat
Speaker 3: shit town.
Speaker 1: This entire every town these fucking idiots end up in
Speaker 1: as a bat shit town.
Speaker 3: It's totally Yeah, one thing I have to bring up.
Speaker 3: This is a quick thing, just for my own you know,
Speaker 3: I just have to mention this. I don't I frankly, father,
Speaker 3: I don't know how they didn't injure any of those
Speaker 3: horses in this movie. This horse is in this movie.
Speaker 3: They perform stunts that I don't know that I've ever
Speaker 3: seen in a movie prior to this. There's a scene
Speaker 3: where they go over a cliff. There's horses tom over people.
Speaker 3: There's horses getting shot and falling down and rearing up
Speaker 3: and all this kind of stuff. I'm sure there was
Speaker 3: one of those aas those no animals were harmed in
Speaker 3: the making of this movie disclaimers at the end. But
Speaker 3: god damn, I don't know what kind of wrangler magician
Speaker 3: they had on this movie. But it's pretty remarkable. These
Speaker 3: horses went through a lot.
Speaker 1: Do you notice that, Well, they seem to have gone
Speaker 1: through a lot, but I guarantee you that they did not.
Speaker 1: I can fairly guarantee that the ASPCA was monitoring all
Speaker 1: of the action going on here in this American production
Speaker 1: taking place on American soil. I think if you go
Speaker 1: and look at a movie like I don't know, Connor
Speaker 1: the Barbarian or say anything by Sam Peckinpah, you are
Speaker 1: going to see some horrific fucking shit going down with horses.
Speaker 1: I think all this stuff looks really brutal here, and
Speaker 1: I can say without saying that those horses are okay.
Speaker 1: Whereas even though look all of the horses were talking
Speaker 1: about in all of these movies, they're all dead now,
Speaker 1: but I think some of them might have died. And
Speaker 1: during the filming of The Wild Bunch.
Speaker 3: That makes sense, ben Her, I think there was probably
Speaker 3: a lot of animal fatalities.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm sure every everything was killed. I'm
Speaker 1: sure they killed stuntman and didn't care when they were
Speaker 1: making Ben hur written by Governor Lou Wallace.
Speaker 3: That's why I bring it up. Yeah, that's famously the
Speaker 3: chariot scenes are famously lethal from that movie because it
Speaker 3: was a time before you had these protections for animals
Speaker 3: and people, so but I just I think it's I'm
Speaker 3: sure that you're right. But boy, it looks like those
Speaker 3: horses went through a lot in this movie. There really
Speaker 3: worked over something fierce. Anyway, I just wanted to min
Speaker 3: That's the last thing I had in my notes was
Speaker 3: how the fuck did they not kill the horse in
Speaker 3: this movie?
Speaker 1: But no, I will say this insummation. William Peterson makes
Speaker 1: that hand of bar mustache look good.
Speaker 3: And he cleans up good though, like when he looks
Speaker 3: every bit the outlaw when he's got the long hair.
Speaker 3: But when he becomes quote unquot respectable and he's got
Speaker 3: the badge and his short hair, he fixes up his
Speaker 3: mustache he's got.
Speaker 1: But when he's the outlawn, when he's got that mobius
Speaker 1: strip where the mustache meets the hairline and continues around
Speaker 1: the head, he looks fucking awesome. And that's a tough
Speaker 1: look to pull off. William Peterson fucking nails.
Speaker 3: It it is, and he's got that's a great scene
Speaker 3: when he's about to set fire to the whorehouse. I
Speaker 3: love when people can light matches off of like the
Speaker 3: sheriff badge. I love that he does that great.
Speaker 1: Nice little close up of him doing that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good shot.
Speaker 1: Is there anything else about this movie? Let's talk. You
Speaker 1: know what, Here's the thing this is. This is the
Speaker 1: best ability of the kid movie of all time, just
Speaker 1: bar none, Sorry, everybody, this is the one. I've watched them,
Speaker 1: I have seen them all. I've watched them all again recently.
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I watched Pat Garrett and
Speaker 1: Billy the Kid last night, and I've seen that one
Speaker 1: a lot, actually, but I've gone back. I looked at
Speaker 1: some of the early ones from the forties, a left
Speaker 1: handed gun and all that bullshit, when they were wearing
Speaker 1: kerchiefs a lot and being really nice to each other
Speaker 1: when they weren't shooting each other. And I think, just creatively, thematically, dramatically,
Speaker 1: this is the movie that gets it. It digs into
Speaker 1: the legends, It gives us the historical facts, It plays
Speaker 1: with the genre while embracing it entirely, and then the
Speaker 1: filmmaking on display is just fucking fantastic. Jeff Murphy should
Speaker 1: be commended. I think it's one of the best looking
Speaker 1: westerns of all time. It moves, the action is really good,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's again grounded, not only in this
Speaker 1: fucking great screenplay, but a fucking central performance in Emelia
Speaker 1: West is that I think he's yet to top. And
Speaker 1: that's I'm not saying he's not doesn't have anything in him.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying this character is so fucking indelible to me,
Speaker 1: as indelible as any Darth Vader or fucking Indiana Jones.
Speaker 1: Like this is when I think Amelia wes of is.
Speaker 1: My next thought is now, Billy the Kid.
Speaker 3: Well, I think time is only proven, you right. I
Speaker 3: think at that time, I hate to say, but I
Speaker 3: think he was still being painted with the brat pack brush.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of them were, and I don't
Speaker 3: think that he was really given the chance to prove
Speaker 3: himself as the great actor that we know that he is.
Speaker 3: I mean, the man's been doing it forever now, and
Speaker 3: I think he's fantastic in this. I think critically, I
Speaker 3: think it's due for a reappraisal. I think it's a
Speaker 3: wonderful it's a great movie. It holds up awesome for
Speaker 3: a movie from nineteen ninety what are we talking thirty
Speaker 3: five years on? That's remarkable in and of itself because
Speaker 3: it's so look, I hate to use I don't want
Speaker 3: to use the word timeless because that makes this sound
Speaker 3: like this was up there with Once upon a Time
Speaker 3: in the West. But there is a timeless quality to it.
Speaker 3: You can watch this movie now and enjoy yourself. It's
Speaker 3: not dated. The acting is wonderful, the story moves, the
Speaker 3: direction is really on point in a way that the
Speaker 3: first movie we kind of missed the mark. There, you're
Speaker 3: gonna love it. I mean, if you haven't seen Young
Speaker 3: Guns Too, what are you waiting for? Check it out.
Speaker 1: Yet, the nineties had a pretty fucking great resurgence in westerns.
Speaker 1: I'm not the biggest fan of Unforgiven. I see it
Speaker 1: as a career capper that you know, for Eastwood, that
Speaker 1: it's an appropriate end to his Western career. But that
Speaker 1: movie belongs to Gene Hackman after all. But the actual
Speaker 1: westerns to me of the nineties were Young Guns two
Speaker 1: and Tombstone and maybe The Quicken the.
Speaker 3: Dead Well Dances.
Speaker 1: Look, I'm not shut up with Dances with Wolves. I
Speaker 1: don't care if Dean Semler, director of photography here, was
Speaker 1: also the director of photography on Dances with Wolves. I
Speaker 1: don't like that movie.
Speaker 3: Time has not been kind to Dances with Wolves, and
Speaker 3: I will admit that, But if you're talking about the
Speaker 3: nineties resurgence of the Western, you cannot say that without
Speaker 3: including Dances with Wolves. That nineteen ninety one oscars that
Speaker 3: we talked about, Dances with that, that was the famous
Speaker 3: Dances with Wolves oscars that won all kinds of fuck awards.
Speaker 1: I know, and they should take them all back and
Speaker 1: give them all to somebody else.
Speaker 3: It was an important movie for its time and.
Speaker 1: Part of the important movie for your time. HP.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying, man, it was a important.
Speaker 1: This movie is an important movie at this time for westerns.
Speaker 1: This is a more important movie than Dances with Wolves.
Speaker 1: Young Guns to Hot take Young Guns Too. Is a
Speaker 1: better and more important Western than Dances with Wolves? Easily?
Speaker 1: That's a hell I'll die on. Is it better than Unforgiven? Yes,
Speaker 1: yes it is. This is a better Western than Unforgiven?
Speaker 1: Is it better than Once Upon a Time in the West?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's a classic Western in a way that we hadn't
Speaker 3: seen westerns like that for a long time.
Speaker 1: Right. Is it better than Hang Them High? Yes, it's
Speaker 1: better than.
Speaker 3: I'll be Gonna go Through. Is it better than the
Speaker 3: Outlaw Josie Wales? Yes?
Speaker 1: I don't know. You said, you Wales, that's tough because
Speaker 1: that's hallucinatory and weird.
Speaker 3: What was the one with Willie Nelson? Is it better
Speaker 3: than the red Headed Stranger or whatever?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's better than the red Headed Strange? What are
Speaker 1: you crazy?
Speaker 3: But I think that the thing we can agree on,
Speaker 3: like I said, is that this was a wonderful return
Speaker 3: and this is completely by design. This is a real
Speaker 3: old school Western in a given to us in a
Speaker 3: way that we hadn't for years.
Speaker 1: Do you remember the Tom and Jerry carrtoon took place
Speaker 1: on a dude ranch and Jerry had a relative. It
Speaker 1: was a little cowboy and he used to sing Froggy
Speaker 1: wind of courtin no anything. He did crimebone like that,
Speaker 1: and he kept breaking his guitar strings. And every time
Speaker 1: he would break a guitar string, he would go rip
Speaker 1: off of one of Tom's whiskers and restring the guitar.
Speaker 1: And Tom kept freaking out. Every time you would hear
Speaker 1: the guitar string, he would like, get all panicky and run.
Speaker 1: That's the classic, Young Guns is better. Thank you for
Speaker 1: joining us here at midnight doing HP. Where can people
Speaker 1: find you if they're looking for you? Oh?
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 3: When I'm not I don't have a pithy thing when
Speaker 3: I'm not watching movies. You can find me elsewhere on
Speaker 3: the weirding Way Network. I co host the Night Mister
Speaker 3: Walter's Taxi podcast with my erstwhile companion here, my co
Speaker 3: host Father Alone, and I'm an occasional guest on the
Speaker 3: Culture Cast with Christashu. I also host the Noise Junkies
Speaker 3: music podcast. If you want to hear someone nerd out
Speaker 3: over music, go check that out. And I have, Speaking
Speaker 3: of music, I have a bandcampsite hpmusicplace dot bandcamp dot com.
Speaker 3: That's a mouthful. I just released it not long ago,
Speaker 3: a new album called Wired in Waiting. Please give that
Speaker 3: a listen if you wish. And yeah, that's where you
Speaker 3: can find me. How about you Father Them Alone? Where
Speaker 3: else can we find you? What kind of stuff? What shenanigans?
Speaker 1: Are you up to? Nothing? I don't do anything with
Speaker 1: this show. Listen, go the links are going to be
Speaker 1: obviously in the comment section. Whatever the fuck we call that?
Speaker 1: For HP's music, which you need to go listen to immediately.
Speaker 1: It's fucking great. It's like music for an eighties film
Speaker 1: that never existed. That's a fun premise and it delivers.
Speaker 1: If you're looking for me, you find me right here.
Speaker 1: If you want to give me some cash, go to
Speaker 1: patreon dot com slash following alone. You're gonna get episodes
Speaker 1: early and commercial free, and you'll get bonus series, some
Speaker 1: of which are hosted by HP and myself, like Kimba
Speaker 1: Box Theater, where we look at theatrical productions that were
Speaker 1: filmed for early cable television. I'm gonna leave you with
Speaker 1: a quote from Young Guns Too. Here it is you.
Speaker 5: Remember John Tustle, Remember the stories you tell us about
Speaker 5: the three Chilnamen playing fan Tan.
Speaker 6: Someone runs up to.
Speaker 5: Him and says, hey, the world is coming to an end,
Speaker 5: and the first one says, a lot, best go to
Speaker 5: the mission to pray, and the second one says, well,
Speaker 5: I'm gonna go buy me a case of Miss Gallon
Speaker 5: six horse, and the third one says, well, I shall
Speaker 5: finish the game.
Speaker 6: I shall finish the game. Doc Sass sings, oh yeah,