1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,319 Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the 2 00:00:03,319 --> 00:00:09,839 Epstein Chronicles. The ghost of Jeffrey Epstein continues to reach 3 00:00:09,839 --> 00:00:13,240 out from the grave and drag people down, and one 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:17,199 of those people that's been dragged below the surface is 5 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,960 hotshot lawyer Brad Karp, who was the boss man over 6 00:00:22,039 --> 00:00:25,480 at Paul Weiss, one of the biggest and most prestigious 7 00:00:25,519 --> 00:00:29,160 white shoe law firms in the United States. And after 8 00:00:29,239 --> 00:00:31,920 the Epstein files, or at least some of them, were released, 9 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,079 Brad carbon his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein has come back 10 00:00:36,119 --> 00:00:39,880 to haunt them. So today we have a very long 11 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,679 article from the Financial Times talking about the downfall of 12 00:00:43,719 --> 00:00:46,679 Brad Karp and how all of this came into play. 13 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,119 So let's dive in and see what they have for us. 14 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:55,320 Headline Apollo Paul Weiss and Epstein. How a star client 15 00:00:55,399 --> 00:00:59,520 brought down a big law boss. This article was authored 16 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:04,439 by A. Wiggins and James Fontanella Cohn and Susie Ring. 17 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,879 As the American legal system closed in on him in 18 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,920 the final months of his life, Jeffrey Epstein shared or 19 00:01:11,879 --> 00:01:15,400 ira mark with a confidant. You will smile, But the 20 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:19,280 US attorney is named bj Epstein sent in an email 21 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,159 to Brad Karp, one of New York's best paid and 22 00:01:22,239 --> 00:01:26,599 most highly regarded lawyers. Epstein's comment was likely a reference 23 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,799 to US Department of Justice lawyer you Young Jin Pack, 24 00:01:30,239 --> 00:01:33,560 who represented the government after its earlier plea deal with 25 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,120 Epstein was ruled illegal. Yeah, you know the NPA that 26 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,200 I'm always raling about that the DOJ could end tomorrow 27 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,359 if they wanted to that one. They refuse to do it, though. 28 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,760 They refuse to end that NPA because it gives them 29 00:01:47,799 --> 00:01:50,840 protection and it gives them an out. Well, look, these 30 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,680 guys are protected. We can't go after them. But if 31 00:01:54,719 --> 00:01:58,000 the DOJ meant business, they don't, they would get rid 32 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,120 of the NPA yesterday. But for that to happen, we'd 33 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,400 have to be governed by people that were actually serious. 34 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,360 Karp did not officially represent Epstein, but was informally supporting them. 35 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:15,039 Love it, Karp replied on March fifth, twenty nineteen. Yeah, 36 00:02:15,039 --> 00:02:18,800 I love it, man. I love defending my child molesting buddy. 37 00:02:19,159 --> 00:02:21,560 Hell of a guy. Can't wait to go over to 38 00:02:21,599 --> 00:02:25,759 Jeffy's house and have some tea. It was one of 39 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,120 more than thirty emails that Carp sent Epstein in the 40 00:02:28,159 --> 00:02:31,599 four months after The Miami Herald published testimony from women 41 00:02:32,039 --> 00:02:35,159 who said Epstein's sexual abuse when they were as young 42 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:39,439 as fourteen had shattered their lives. In those emails, Karp 43 00:02:39,439 --> 00:02:42,039 called Epstein my friend and said he'd love to see 44 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,479 them again. These people don't care, Brad Carp the rest 45 00:02:46,479 --> 00:02:49,319 of them. The only issue they have is being called 46 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,280 onto the carpet. And if you notice, that's the only 47 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,479 time that they even begin to show any kind of 48 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,240 remorse or fake remorse. Oh, I'm so sorry. I should 49 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,759 have never associated with them. No idea, you had, every 50 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,120 idea you didn't care. And that goes for guys like 51 00:03:05,159 --> 00:03:08,319 Brad Karp too. Now, look, I'm not saying Brad Karp 52 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,879 was abusing anybody, but he was enabling Jeffrey Epstein, and 53 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,120 he was certainly helping him out. And you can't even 54 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,439 fall back on the defense that, Oh, well, i'm a lawyer, 55 00:03:17,479 --> 00:03:20,520 this is what I do. Was he your client? Did 56 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,879 he pay a retainer? Oh, none of that happened. Cool, 57 00:03:23,879 --> 00:03:26,319 So he was your friend and you were giving him advice, 58 00:03:26,719 --> 00:03:31,439 got it? Carp brand Paul Weiss, one of the US's 59 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,159 biggest and most prestigious white shoe law firms. He had 60 00:03:35,199 --> 00:03:37,680 just won a coveted Attorney of the Year title, for 61 00:03:37,759 --> 00:03:40,520 which he made a speech saying the firm's lawyers were 62 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,960 committed to doing the right thing. He praised earlier generations 63 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,120 at Paul Weiss, who saw the law as a noble profession, 64 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,360 not as a commercial enterprise. Oh stop it, that's all 65 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,039 it is to any of you. Whi's a noble profession. 66 00:03:55,199 --> 00:03:57,719 As I charged fourteen hundred bucks an hour, I wonder 67 00:03:57,719 --> 00:04:01,719 how many indigent clients mister carp has. I'm guessing not 68 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,120 too many, but sure tell me some more. That it's 69 00:04:05,159 --> 00:04:08,840 all love of the game. But a close reading of 70 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,960 the hundreds of entries in the doj Epstein files and 71 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,159 the conversations with people with knowledge of the firm revealed 72 00:04:15,199 --> 00:04:17,160 just how far he was willing to go for his 73 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:22,000 most important client, Apollo Global Management. KARPS need to please 74 00:04:22,079 --> 00:04:25,079 the private capital group and it's then leader, Leon Black, 75 00:04:25,519 --> 00:04:28,839 entangled him in a relationship with Epstein that lasted until 76 00:04:28,879 --> 00:04:32,680 months before the pedophile's death in August of twenty nineteen. 77 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,720 And when you have a client like Apollo Global that's 78 00:04:35,759 --> 00:04:40,120 paying you literally millions of dollars on retainer. There's nothing 79 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,240 you're not going to do for them. You're going to 80 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,120 walk the line, right and who cares if girls were abused? 81 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,279 Who gives a shit? I got to make sure my 82 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:53,839 client's good. Mister carp Is made clear that he regrets 83 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:58,160 his interaction with Epstein. Paul Weis disagrees with the portrayal 84 00:04:58,519 --> 00:05:01,439 of much of the information specif to our firm. The 85 00:05:01,519 --> 00:05:04,920 law firm told the Ft in response to questions for 86 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:09,600 this article, Karp declined to comment privately. He has told 87 00:05:09,639 --> 00:05:11,879 those close to him that he was not friends with 88 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,240 Epstein and he was keeping them on side because Black 89 00:05:15,519 --> 00:05:18,920 had wanted them to. I could see that. I could 90 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,600 definitely see that. But it doesn't make it any better. 91 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,519 You're an adult, dude, Okay, nobody's forcing you to do this. 92 00:05:27,079 --> 00:05:30,720 Leon Black doesn't have that kind of power over you. 93 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,120 You're already richer than God. But sure, let me bend 94 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,000 over backwards for Leon Black and Jeffrey Epstein. How does 95 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,839 that make sense to anybody out there? And it's another 96 00:05:41,879 --> 00:05:44,480 reason why I don't care about these people and their reputations. 97 00:05:44,959 --> 00:05:47,399 They had the whole ass world given to them, all 98 00:05:47,399 --> 00:05:50,959 these people, and they squandered it, and now you want 99 00:05:50,959 --> 00:05:54,279 me to care about their reputation because they got nailed 100 00:05:54,439 --> 00:05:56,879 as being a friend of Jeffrey Epstein and in some 101 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,160 cases a lot worse. Sorry, you got the wrong guy. 102 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,480 Much more concerned about the girls who were abused and 103 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,920 about the rest of us who were stolen from I 104 00:06:06,959 --> 00:06:10,360 instructed Brad to engage directly with Epstein on my behalf 105 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:15,319 on various matters, including thee negotiations, beginning in twenty thirteen 106 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:20,839 and continuing until twenty nineteen. Black told the FT at 107 00:06:20,879 --> 00:06:25,079 all times Brad provided wise and effective counsel. It would 108 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,399 cost Karp the job that he held for eighteen years. 109 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,800 There is nothing new in the release documents, Apollo said. 110 00:06:32,319 --> 00:06:35,240 It said the law firm Deckert had conducted a thorough 111 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,120 and independent investigation into the Jeffrey Epstein matter more than 112 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,439 five years ago and had full, unfedtered access to all 113 00:06:42,439 --> 00:06:46,759 communications and any other material that they requested. Well, we 114 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,720 know that's a bunch of bs in that longly on 115 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,560 Black article that we did. Recently, we broke it all down, 116 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,199 all the different things that weren't reported, how Deckert was 117 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,480 negligent when it comes to their investigation, and how it 118 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,639 was all by design. Cart became chair of Paul Weiss 119 00:07:03,639 --> 00:07:05,680 in two thousand and eight, when it was best known 120 00:07:05,879 --> 00:07:09,480 for its elite litigation practice. By the early two thousands, 121 00:07:09,519 --> 00:07:12,199 he had realized that if he wanted the position itself 122 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,160 among the top ranks of global law firms, it needed 123 00:07:15,199 --> 00:07:18,639 exposure to private equity, which was then at the beginning 124 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,680 of a decade long boom, and the way to get 125 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:26,639 that back then, of course, Apollo Global. Nobody did it better, right, 126 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:32,279 Leon Black, Josh Harris, Mark Rowan, all dudes that were 127 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,800 highly thought of at the time and guys that were 128 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:40,920 well positioned to do exactly what Paul Weiss wanted. Apollo 129 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:45,279 was Paul Weiss's solution, and the relationship transformed the law firm. 130 00:07:46,399 --> 00:07:49,519 Paul Weiss gross revenue surged from six hundred and sixty 131 00:07:49,519 --> 00:07:52,360 five million in two thousand and nine to more than 132 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,839 three point twenty five billion in twenty twenty five. According 133 00:07:55,839 --> 00:07:59,800 to a person familiar with the matter, Carp's pay surged two, 134 00:08:00,399 --> 00:08:03,480 propelling him into an elite group of lawyers who made 135 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:07,240 tens of millions of dollars annually. Apollo paid the firm 136 00:08:07,519 --> 00:08:10,439 more than two hundred million in a year in order 137 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:14,680 of magnitude, more in fees than most other clients. Now 138 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,199 think about that for a minute. Leon Black or Apollo, 139 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,600 I should say, paid two hundred million dollars to the 140 00:08:21,639 --> 00:08:25,360 whole law firm of Paul Weiss. Now think about how 141 00:08:25,439 --> 00:08:28,600 much money that Leon Black gave to Jeffrey Epstein personally, 142 00:08:29,439 --> 00:08:31,720 and it shows you just how crazy that number is. 143 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,399 Apollo's growing importance to the firm provoke criticism from some 144 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:43,240 internally who felt Paul Weiss was becoming too heavily exposed 145 00:08:43,399 --> 00:08:46,720 to the private capital group. Look, at that time, nobody 146 00:08:46,759 --> 00:08:52,000 ever thought Apollo was going anywhere. Everybody thought that Apollo 147 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,159 was forever. And look, they still are. It's not like 148 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,399 Apollo's gone, not like they've folded, not like they've been 149 00:08:58,519 --> 00:09:01,639 raided and had all their u that seized. They're still 150 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:03,960 active and they're still one of the biggest in the game. 151 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:05,840 And at the time it had to seem smart to 152 00:09:05,919 --> 00:09:10,519 hit your wagon to Apollo. Karp took the view that 153 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,600 he had to stay very close to the founders of 154 00:09:12,639 --> 00:09:16,039 Apollo to make sure Apollo wouldn't leave. A person who 155 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:21,000 knows him said, staying close to Apollo meant becoming entangled 156 00:09:21,039 --> 00:09:24,960 in Black's complex personal life. Black is sometimes referred to 157 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,519 in the Epstein Files as mister Big, the nickname of 158 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,399 the Wall Street financier character in the TV series Sex 159 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,799 and the City. No idea never watch that show, so 160 00:09:36,879 --> 00:09:39,200 I have no idea who the reference is referring to, 161 00:09:39,759 --> 00:09:43,559 but we'll roll with it. Epstein was also involved in 162 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,799 having known Black since the nineties. By twenty sixteen, however, 163 00:09:48,039 --> 00:09:52,679 the relationship between the two financiers was in trouble. Black 164 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,639 was fighting with Epstein over how much money the Apollo 165 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:59,440 founder owed for services that included trust and a stay, planning, 166 00:09:59,759 --> 00:10:03,480 tacked issues, and philanthropy, and had asked Karp to deal 167 00:10:03,519 --> 00:10:06,360 with Epstein on his behalf. And for Karp, all he 168 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,879 saw was dollar signs. Right, oh shit, hell ya, I'll middleman, 169 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,600 this what's my cut? How much am I getting? Over 170 00:10:13,639 --> 00:10:16,639 the years, Carp and Epstein discussed Black's fees at length. 171 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,360 Black ultimately paid Epstein one hundred and fifty eight million, 172 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,799 and this is the reason Paul Weiss was cited for 173 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,039 the firm's contact with Epstein, saying that it was retained 174 00:10:27,279 --> 00:10:30,720 by Leon Black, then the CEO of the firm's longtime 175 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,480 client Apollo to negotiate a series of feed disputes with 176 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:38,480 Jeffrey Epstein that span several years. So Karp was eating 177 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,200 out of both sides of the bowl. Not only was 178 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,840 he friendly with Leon Black, he was friendly with Jeffrey Epstein, 179 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,279 and he helped negotiate this gigantic payout that Epstein ended 180 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,919 up getting. And if you think that was all for 181 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,000 tax advice, if that was all for estate planning, you 182 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,879 probably believe that there's a such thing as mermaids and 183 00:10:58,919 --> 00:11:00,679 that a sasquatch is about to come out of the 184 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,720 forest and kidnap you, because that's how ridiculous it is. 185 00:11:07,919 --> 00:11:12,159 But Karp and Epstein discussed other things too. That included 186 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,919 a woman called Guzelle Ganieva, and she was a Russian 187 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:19,720 formal model with whom Black had an extramarital affair and 188 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,000 who by twenty fifteen was seeking money from the billionaire 189 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,840 private equity Titan and threatening to go public about their relationship, 190 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:31,759 according to documents in the DJ files. And what was 191 00:11:31,759 --> 00:11:35,200 so crazy about this situation with Leon Black His wife 192 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:39,519 was super sick while he was doing this, And I 193 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,279 just can't even imagine, Like when my girlfriend had breast cancer. 194 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,519 The last thing I was thinking about is stepping out 195 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:51,559 and meeting other women, Like, where are your priorities? Dude? 196 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,399 And look, I get it, everybody has needs and shit, right, 197 00:11:54,639 --> 00:11:56,879 go to the bathroom, handle your business and be done 198 00:11:56,879 --> 00:12:00,600 with it. But for these people, it's about others. It's 199 00:12:00,639 --> 00:12:03,200 not just the pleasure. It's not just oh, I want 200 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:07,879 to have relations. It's about power. It's about domination. And 201 00:12:07,919 --> 00:12:10,399 when you're talking about a dude like Leon Black, from 202 00:12:10,399 --> 00:12:17,159 what we've heard, sure seems to fit the mold. When 203 00:12:17,159 --> 00:12:20,799 Epstein suggested getting the Manhattan District Attorney involved, Karp made 204 00:12:20,799 --> 00:12:25,720 the call. When Epstein suggested getting Gnieva's visa revoked, Karp said, 205 00:12:25,919 --> 00:12:29,120 we'll work on this. When Epstein asked whether Karp and 206 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,879 his colleagues could have Ganieva arrested, Karp replied, his strong 207 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,600 belief is that the answer is yes. He said this 208 00:12:36,799 --> 00:12:40,000 was especially so because the referral would come from a 209 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,320 former senior prosecutor who Paul Weiss had recently hired. Oh 210 00:12:44,399 --> 00:12:48,600 isn't that great? Nothing like using your connections with SDNY 211 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,480 or insert district here to arrest people. All on behalf 212 00:12:53,519 --> 00:12:56,720 of Jeffrey Epstein and Leon Black. These are straight up 213 00:12:56,759 --> 00:12:59,960 mafia tactics, but when they're performed by people like Karp 214 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:06,759 and Jeffrey Epstein, it's just considered shrud business. Right. It 215 00:13:06,919 --> 00:13:10,240 was Paul Weiss that hired the private investigation firm Nardello 216 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,519 in company on Black's behalf to Surveiller and Karp, who 217 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:17,600 asked Epstein in July of twenty fifteen where Ganieva stayed 218 00:13:17,759 --> 00:13:20,600 when she was in New York and whether he knew 219 00:13:20,639 --> 00:13:24,480 her social Security number. Three times in eight days. In 220 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:28,600 August of twenty fifteen and again in October, Black met 221 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,600 Ganieva at an upscale New York restaurant. Using Nardello. He 222 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:37,639 recorded their conversations. Karp sent the transcript to Epstein. In 223 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,240 one Black told Ganieva, as long as you behave, I'll 224 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:43,919 pay you one hundred thousand a month every month for 225 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,559 the next twelve years. What I'm trying to do for 226 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,360 you is also to get a mechanism, and I think 227 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,639 my lawyers have one. Nardello was hired to provide investigative 228 00:13:53,639 --> 00:13:57,879 support and connection with an extortion attempt. The investigation firm 229 00:13:57,919 --> 00:14:00,799 said in the course of that engagement, no one at 230 00:14:00,879 --> 00:14:05,440 Nardello had any contact or communication with Epstein, nor did 231 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,200 the firm know that mister Black's council was sharing its 232 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,840 work product with them. I mean, I guess, I guess 233 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,240 we'll just have to believe that, but kind of hard 234 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:18,759 to believe. No. Seems to me that that's a very 235 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,200 large bridge to cross. Karp later asked a colleague whether 236 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,240 Paul Weiss could help Black with an escrow fund to 237 00:14:25,279 --> 00:14:29,159 make monthly payments to an individual. The DOJ files show 238 00:14:30,399 --> 00:14:33,559 they don't say whether the request was related to Ganieva. 239 00:14:34,039 --> 00:14:37,480 The firm's policy was not to do so. However, days later, 240 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,679 Karp told Epstein he had sought reconsideration from city groups 241 00:14:41,679 --> 00:14:45,919 two top executives, again without naming Ghanieva, but in the 242 00:14:46,039 --> 00:14:50,799 end they deferred the compliance. Ghanieva rejected any allegation of 243 00:14:50,799 --> 00:14:54,440 extortion and told the ft nothing about my interactions with 244 00:14:54,519 --> 00:14:58,159 Leon Black was consensual, and the truth will come out. 245 00:14:58,399 --> 00:15:01,559 I never sought money from him, she added. Any suggestion 246 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,840 that I pursued him his money or acted voluntarily is false. 247 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,720 So look, at this point, I believe Ganiheva, and I 248 00:15:09,799 --> 00:15:12,440 believe that there's more here than is being let on. 249 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,120 Black made his final payment to Epstein in twenty seventeen, 250 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,399 according to a report from the law firm Decker, which 251 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:24,080 investigated Black's Apollo links to the pedophile. The deckerd report 252 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,879 did not mention surveillance, private investigators or Ganieva. The carb 253 00:15:28,919 --> 00:15:33,120 Epstein relationship continued, and that's what I was talking about originally. 254 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,320 The Deckert report garbage. Anytime you hear about that, just 255 00:15:37,399 --> 00:15:44,200 discard it. The findings were trash. That same year, the 256 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,360 pair exchanged a set of cryptic messages after Karp was 257 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,639 scheduled to visit Epstein's house. Epstein email Karp to say, sorry, 258 00:15:51,639 --> 00:15:54,480 I spooked you. I think very low risk, very low 259 00:15:54,519 --> 00:15:57,879 if any thanks. Krp replied, I really appreciate you always 260 00:15:57,879 --> 00:16:01,720 being straight with me on many, many, many things. But 261 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,120 I'd never considered myself. That really got me thinking, I 262 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:09,960 appreciate your friendship. Epstein reassured Carp. I think that is 263 00:16:10,039 --> 00:16:12,559 now a catch all word for anyone who likes women. 264 00:16:12,679 --> 00:16:15,559 So no worries. It's not clear what the word was. 265 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,679 Karp replied, I worry when I have nothing to worry 266 00:16:18,679 --> 00:16:21,759 about my friend. Oh, I guess you did have something 267 00:16:21,759 --> 00:16:24,320 to worry about, didn't you, mister Carp. Some of the 268 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,519 exchanges display an offensive humor. When Epstein, apparently questioning whether 269 00:16:28,559 --> 00:16:31,360 an unnamed woman was being truthful about the signing of 270 00:16:31,399 --> 00:16:34,600 a contract, asked, did she also say she was a virgin? 271 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:39,399 Karp told Epstein, you're feisty tonight. Karp appears to have 272 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,799 been willing to push the boundaries of confidentiality rules to 273 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:47,440 meet Epstein's request. In September of twenty fifteen, Karp sent 274 00:16:47,519 --> 00:16:51,600 Epstein an email that appeared to contain login details intended 275 00:16:51,639 --> 00:16:54,639 to be used by the law firm. The email read 276 00:16:54,879 --> 00:17:01,320 user p Weiss password Apple. Sixty five April of twenty eighteen, 277 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,640 Epstein asked him for a copy of a document related 278 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,000 to a stock cell. I'm going to send that to you, 279 00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:09,680 Karp replied, but please don't let them know that I 280 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,799 shared it. It's supposed to be strictly confidential. Black spokesperson 281 00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:17,240 told the FT that Black had instructed Karp to share 282 00:17:17,279 --> 00:17:21,559 the document. He also said Epstein embellished, exaggerated, and lied 283 00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:26,119 in his communications. Black wanted Karp to remain in contact 284 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:30,480 with Epstein into twenty nineteen because the feed dispute continued, 285 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,720 and because tax and estate matters and transitioning information can 286 00:17:34,759 --> 00:17:39,839 take years. The spokesman said, yeah, right. He wanted to 287 00:17:39,839 --> 00:17:43,000 stay in contact because he was being tugged along and 288 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:44,960 Epstein had a bunch of dirt on him, so he 289 00:17:45,039 --> 00:17:47,720 had to make sure that the lines of communication remained open. Right. 290 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,440 In his October twenty eighteen speech to accept the New 291 00:17:52,519 --> 00:17:55,680 York Law Journal's Attorney of the Year award, Carp celebrated 292 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,839 Paul Weiss's virtues. It's such a privileged to lead a 293 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,599 law firm who's professionals are wholly committed, reflexively committed to 294 00:18:03,759 --> 00:18:06,880 doing the right thing, the courageous thing, a law firm 295 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,160 that's willing to stand up for the rule of law, 296 00:18:09,319 --> 00:18:13,640 Carp said. The following month, the Miami Herald published its 297 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:19,079 Epstein investigation. By then, Black had cut off communications. The 298 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,839 damage was already done, and even though they tried to 299 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,960 hide it, eventually it was all going to come out, 300 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:29,599 and boy did it. In the messages that they exchanged 301 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,799 after that, Epstein and Karp offered comfort and advice to 302 00:18:32,839 --> 00:18:36,200 each other. In December, Epstein told Karp, in relation to 303 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,720 something unspecified hurts that this is taking a physical toll 304 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,839 on you. Not worth it. Carp replied, thanks, my friend, 305 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:47,119 I hear you just an awful, relentless stretch. Oh poor guys, 306 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,640 can you imagine what those girls were going through. I 307 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,119 don't give a damn about Brad Karp or Jeffrey Epstein. 308 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,319 After a US federal judge ruled that Epstein's two thousand 309 00:18:59,319 --> 00:19:02,079 and seven p D, which had let him avoid federal charges, 310 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:06,599 illegal in February of twenty nineteen, Karp told Epstein, hope 311 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,640 you're staying calm. Let me know what I can do 312 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:13,920 to help your judgment and friendship. Epstein replied. Karp turned 313 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,960 to Epstein for recommendations for a lawyer. When former City 314 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,880 Group president John Havens was ensnared in a Florida prostitution 315 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:25,640 crackdown in February of twenty nineteen, Havens told FT, I 316 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,680 had never met Epstein, I never spoke with Epstein, and 317 00:19:28,759 --> 00:19:32,200 I never asked or knew that Karp spoke to Epstein. 318 00:19:32,799 --> 00:19:35,400 I got legal references from other people and did not 319 00:19:35,519 --> 00:19:39,119 use the lawyer Karp referred me to. Charges against Havens 320 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,279 were ultimately dropped. A month later, when Epstein was under 321 00:19:43,319 --> 00:19:46,920 renewed threat of legal action and wanted the firm of 322 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,079 private investigators, it was Karp who recommended Nardello and the 323 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:55,440 same organization Paul Weiss had previously hired on Black's behalf 324 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:00,400 In twenty nineteen, unbeknounced to mister Nardello a firm client 325 00:20:00,519 --> 00:20:05,119 recommended that Epstein contact them about providing assistance with anticipated 326 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:10,440 civil litigation. The investigative firm said, Epstein reached out, but 327 00:20:10,519 --> 00:20:13,839 mister Nardello declined to help, and they had no further contact. 328 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,440 I'm sure they had no contact or was it it 329 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,039 was back channel contact. I'm guessing it was back channel contact. 330 00:20:22,599 --> 00:20:25,599 By the time that the DOJ published the Epstein files 331 00:20:25,599 --> 00:20:28,519 this year, Karp had already lost to shine in parts 332 00:20:28,559 --> 00:20:31,799 of New York legal community because of his capitulation to 333 00:20:31,839 --> 00:20:36,519 the Trump administration. When US President Donald Trump issued potentially 334 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,680 damaging executive orders targeting Paul Weiss and others last year, 335 00:20:41,079 --> 00:20:43,920 it was a test of the law firm's identity. Other 336 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,079 firms successfully fought back in court. Some of Paul Weis's 337 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,440 litigators would have liked to do the same, but it 338 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,720 was clear within Paul Weiss that it was not in 339 00:20:53,759 --> 00:20:56,839 Apollo's interest for the firm to be in conflict with 340 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:01,960 the administration. Any implication not Apollo in any way weighed 341 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,440 in or attempted to influence our decision making with respect 342 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,920 to the executive order is completely false, Paul White said, 343 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:13,359 Does anyone really believe this Carp dude? Just another scumbag 344 00:21:13,519 --> 00:21:20,759 with revisionist history. Carp agreed to provide forty million dollars 345 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,200 of unpaid work for Trump back causes. The order was 346 00:21:24,279 --> 00:21:28,759 dropped soon after other large law firms struck similar deals. 347 00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:31,640 You couldn't imagine a greater chilling effect on the rest 348 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,319 of the profession than Karp's deal, the head of a 349 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,880 large law firm set at the time. The episode prompted 350 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:43,119 speculation about Karp's future. He weathered it, reinforcing his reputation 351 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:48,039 internally as a stabilizing figure. But when the DOJ published 352 00:21:48,039 --> 00:21:51,279 three million pages from the Epstein finals in late January, 353 00:21:51,599 --> 00:21:56,839 some clients began signaling concerns about reputational risk from Karp's relationship. 354 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,039 Within days, a small group of partners started preparing a 355 00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:05,079 contingency plan to replace Karp, before agreeing that he should 356 00:22:05,079 --> 00:22:08,519 be removed as chair. He remains a partner, so he 357 00:22:08,599 --> 00:22:10,880 had to step down, but he still works for the firm. 358 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,559 Keep that in mind. As the drama unfolded, some partners 359 00:22:14,599 --> 00:22:18,359 express frustration that Karp had not stepped aside earlier. Some 360 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,599 believed that he should leave the firm entirely. Still, some 361 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,519 in the firm's litigation business, where Carp made his name, 362 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,200 thought he should not have had to step down as 363 00:22:27,319 --> 00:22:31,920 chair at all. Others viewed his removal as chair as 364 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,680 a proportionate response, given that he had not been accused 365 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,000 of breaking the law. Some partners were told he was 366 00:22:38,039 --> 00:22:40,519 being allowed to remain in the firm out of what 367 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,200 one referred to as humanity. He had worked there for 368 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,680 more than forty years since his days as a summer associate. 369 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,200 Star deal maker. Scott Barshay has since been installed as chair. 370 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,119 He's less close to Apollo than others at the firm, 371 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,359 since he advises on public AIMEE rather than private equity 372 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,799 deal making, and he's less inclined than Karp to present 373 00:23:02,839 --> 00:23:04,839 the firm as a force for good in the world. 374 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,880 He's not named in the Epstein files, Well, that's a 375 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,519 fucking achievement in itself at this point. If you're in 376 00:23:12,559 --> 00:23:15,440 the financial sector and your name is not in the 377 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,599 Epstein files, I think that's success for you, and I 378 00:23:19,599 --> 00:23:22,160 think the same goes for these law firms. Right, how 379 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:27,160 many of these big shot lawyers are caught up of Karp? 380 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,559 One partner said at the time of his departure, his 381 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,480 chair people used to like him, partly because he is 382 00:23:32,559 --> 00:23:37,640 charming and charismatic. But everyone is so annoyed about this. Look. 383 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,160 I don't doubt it. Imagine being a partner, I'd be 384 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,599 pissed too. And when it comes to guys like Carp, 385 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:48,039 there's gonna be many more following suit. And I think 386 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,160 as more comes out and more emails are gone through 387 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,119 and more connections are made, you're gonna see this kind 388 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:58,400 of exodus from other big shots. We've already seen Catherine 389 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,799 Rummler end up leaving her posts at Goldman Sachs, big 390 00:24:01,839 --> 00:24:04,640 time lawyer, and now we have mister Karp as well, 391 00:24:04,799 --> 00:24:08,039 And in my opinion, he most certainly won't be the last. 392 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,839 All Right, folks, that's going to do it for this one. 393 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,880 All the information that goes with this episode can be 394 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,839 found in the description box.