Speaker 1: What is up, Fellawsichos. I am Dana Valley coming at
you alone because we have a trade. We actually have
two trades because Thomas Briant and any tilt Indiana Pacers
from the Miami Death. But that's not super consequentially, the
Pacers get a big you can do some finishing, might
help them with rebounding, but that's not a massive trade.
We've have a bigger one Dennis Shooters headed to the
Golden State Warriors reported before trade season kicks off on Sunday,
December fifteenth, but we now have the full details of
the trade because I, like a genius, waited until Sunday
morning to record this in hopes that the pick details
would trickle out, just to get some more information before
we break it down. Just a reminder not to only subscribe,
but go join our discord. We are going to do
a mail bag this week, and the way to get
your mail bag questions in. You could ask us anything
and we will try to answer as many questions as
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is in the podcast and YouTube description. So go in
there talk to your fellow ciccos about hoops. Lots of fun,
lots of good discussions are had in there. But now,
without further delay, let's talk some Dennis Shooter the Golden
State Warriors a trade that I think, despite the way
it might be framed by some, I really do believe
it is going to matter a great deal. So let's
start with the details. D'Anthony Melton, so Brooklyn is receiving
the Anthony Melton Reese Beekman, who is on a two
way contract with the Golden State Warriors. They are also
receiving three second round picks in Atlanta's twenty twenty six
first round pick, in Atlanta's twenty twenty eight second round pick,
and Golden State's twenty twenty nine second round pick. The
Warriors in return, are getting Dennis Shruter and Miami's twenty
twenty five second round pick that is protected through selection
number thirty seven. And so I think if you're the Nets,
you look at this as getting pretty much three seconds
for Dennis Shreuter. You could say three and a half,
because I do believe that you've upgraded your second round
pick stash here considerably off that. You know, Miami's not
the greatest team this year, but top thirty seven protection.
So you're not guaranteed to get a selection in you know,
those first seven picks of the first round, and at
least with these, I mean, who knows Atlanta's playing well
right now, but who knows where they are in twenty
twenty six and twenty twenty eight, And just with the
Warriors' core, who knows where they are in twenty twenty nine.
So I like the flyer and then just getting the
stash there, I think, what and then for Golden State,
by the way, getting the additional second round or something
that they could just throw in a trade that could
end up mattering if they decide to make a bigger deal.
I think a lot of people look at this deal
for the Nets and maybe wonder why they didn't hold
out for more. The reporting from I believe it was
Mark Stein, was that they were going to get a
first round pick. They wanted a first round pick. Excuse me,
Dennis Shuter's on an expiring contract. You don't really see
those players go for like non star material players go
for a first round pick as often anymore, even when
you're talking about a later first round pick. Now, could
the Nets have waited and maybe gotten more for Dennis
Shooter potentially. But I think another benefit of this deal
that we have to know, and by the way, it's
a benefit for both, is that because neither Dennis Shrewder
nor de Anthony Melton was aggregated in the trade as
in traded with other players, they can now be aggregated
in other deals before the February sixth trade deadline. And
so for the Nets, just having Melton's expiring salary, if
you're looking to take back money in the deal, that's
a form of compensation that benefits them a ton. It's
just another movable contract that they can have, and teams
will view Melton as cap relief. Maybe some teams will
be interested he's done for the season because of that
ACL injury. Maybe some teams will be interested in carrying
his bird rights into free agency. YadA, YadA, YadA. I
think it's a bigger deal for the Warriors just because
you don't want this to be the biggest swing they make.
Dennis Shrewder and we're gonna get into it very soon
is not going to solve all of their biggest issues.
And I don't think is the difference separating the Warriors
from the league's title contender. Click and so you want
them to be able to aim bigger, and if he
wasn't able to be aggregated, then all of a sudden, yeah,
they still have these mid end deals. When Kyle hand
saying Gary Payton, the second Kevon Looney, even Moses Moody
on the poison pill can be moved. But if you
were going to make a big deal, you might still
almost certainly have to include Andrew Wiggins. But if you
were just taking a twelve point eight like or thirteen
million dollar player off the table has only could only
be moved as a standalone piece. That makes things a
little bit more difficult to you, because I think the
goal right now for any Golden State trade, unless they're
getting a cast lock wing, you probably want to keep
Andrew Wiggins because of how good he's been this year.
And from the nets perspective, I don't there's not much
to talk about with them. This will be mostly about
the Warriors. So let's clear up the nets first. Even
if you think they could have gotten more so through
out the benefits of being able to trade the Anthony
Melton in a in a bigger trade, you needed to
get worse. Cam Thomas is injured and your offense is
still way too competent. You've already lost ground in the
tanking race that you want to define. They reacquired control
over their next two first round picks, specifically to tank
like to be in the running for not just the
number one pick, but to guarantee themselves a top five pick. Basically,
they're not in that territory. And that's again with Cam
Thomas being injured, and so you needed to get rid
of Dennis Shooter, who's been so good this year. And
if the difference was could we have gotten better seconds
or could we gotten a late first I think it
actually is more beneficial to them to have just taken
this package three I would say, quality second round picks
in exchange for Dennis Shooter and a meh second round pick.
Making this trade now kind of ensures that you won't
have too much ground to make up later against other teams.
And as it stands, they might have too much ground
to make up when you're looking at could they still
fall into the bottom four for sure, but they're not
going to be on the Utah Jazz New Orleans level
of tanking or the Wizard's level of tanking at the moment.
So those are three teams that you can already I
would say right off that, oh, there's no way Brooklyn's
going to catch them in the lost column. And so
if you want to finish, let's just say a bottom
five record should be the goal with this thing. Should
really be bottom four to get the top lottery owns possible.
You've now made this more likely, and you've done it sooner.
So I think there's value in that, and it made
sense for them to do that, and without knowing what like, yeah,
maybe they would have gotten more for Dennis Shooter, but
we can one. I think, even when I criticized trades
where I don't love the value for them, the fact
that in that moment, if you don't think that they
were just accepting the best offer, you need some reporting
to back that up. When it comes to and I
know people are tired of hearing this, it does feel
like the bulls chose first round, chose Josh Gidty over
getting first round equity. I know people are saying, look
at the way Alex Cruiser's shooting now, he can't stay healthy,
can't play a ton of minutes. I can tell you
with near certainty that they could have gotten at least
one really good first round pick for Alex Caruso, and
so they opted. Let's not go into, you know, imputing
the Bulls, We've done enough of that on this podcast lately.
But they opted for Josh Getty over that draft compensation.
We'll see how it pans out for them, But for
the most part, you're going to see like these teams
aren't pivoting away from offers that objectively better Because let's say,
when the Bulls did Trey Cruso, whatever that was on
the table from other teams, it might have just been debatable.
I'm talking about. You don't see a team just accept
what's objectively a worse package. There's no raging morons in
THEMBA to that degree of that I know of, anyway.
So I think this is totally good value for Brooklyn,
and that there's even more value to be gleaned because
they made this decision early rather than waiting until they
perhaps racked up more victories. Now from the Warriors perspective, here,
things get very interesting for them. They are about three
hundred and thirty thousand away from the first apron. Now
they cannot go over that. That's something to keep in
mind in future deals. But they were already dealing with
that because this only made them take on like two
hundred k in salary total, so they were already kind
of towing those margins. It's a bigger deal because of
what Dennis Shuder is going to do for them on
the basketball court. And the big thing is those non
Stepf minutes. There's the offense needs juice in general, but
the non Steaf minutes have been disastrous offensively. Golden State
ranks in the fourth percentile of points scored per possession
when Steph is not on the floor as opposed to
being I think they're in the ninetieth percentile or the
very least in the eighties of the percentiles when he's
on the court during those non Stepf stretches. Some of these.
You know, Moses Moody's injured now. I think he's dealing
with the knee thing. But their most used lineups without Steph,
they do tend to include three of pods. Buddy healed,
Moses Moody, and then we've seen some Lindy Waters when
they're all healthy. I mean, as of right now, maybe
you don't see too much fallout. I don't think you
can afford to. I mean, Buddy Heels minutes will be
up and down at points. But the player I'm sort
of looking at is because he just hasn't progressed enough
as a playmaker. A shot maker would be Brandon Perjemski.
If Dennis Shrewder is really good, we could see Pods
minutes in peril, even before Moses Moody is healthy. And
so that's just something to monitor because the Golden State
Wars are probably still pretty invested in Brandon Perjemski, but
they're also trying to win now and he hasn't necessarily
been a driving force of that, certainly on offense. What
this also sort of tells me, but we've seen this
before only to see the Warriors not do this. If
you're getting Dennis Shrewder, it would seem to imply to
me that Steve Kerr will run a more traditional half
court offense, especially during those bench units. We have to
see whether that pans out. But like, if you have
Dennis Schreuder, you should be running pick and roles, would
be my point, and so you know, tie him. I
know the Warriors don't have the conventionally just really good
rim runner. Maybe that's something that they'll be looking for
on the trademarket further, but just play him with Tray
Jackson Davis, an a bunch and run at least some
of those more traditional sets, ones that Dennis Shruter himself
is used to working within. Now, Golden State does plan
to per multiple reports, does plan to start Steph Shrewder together.
That's interesting. Dennis Shueter can be a pretty good defender,
and he is shooting thirty nine point six percent on
four catch and shoot three point attempts per game. But
we have to see just how that plays out because
he is six to one, and so are you making
yourself two eminently targetable on the defensive end or do
you just believe that, hey, when we're gonna have Draymond,
and if or if we're gonna have we are gonna
have Draymond. But if you're gonna have an addition to Draymond,
you have you could futs around and you're going to
have Wiggins and you have Trace Jackson Davis, and just
the season that Kavan Mooney is having, if just in
general during the lineups he's playing with Steph, even if
he wasn't starting, you would still see those two on
the court together. If you think you just have enough
defensive talent to make up for it even without Melton,
that shouldn't be too big of a deal, and it
gives you I wouldn't say the Warriors need a number
two option. Dennis Shreuter that we saw in Brooklyn is
kind of that, but it will be intriguing to see
how that scales down to a smaller role. I do
think though, that he brings a lot to the table
for Golden State. Specifically, if he were on the Warriors
right now, he would rank first in unassisted two pointers
made and second behind only Steph obviously in unassisted three
pointers made. They need just this is an objective take.
Golden State needs someone with that level of juice, and
it's not John John thinkaminge'z too up and down with it,
and he's certainly not going to self generate good three
point looks. And Andrew Wiggins is always over taxed in
that role. That's really not Draymond Green's role. And you
don't have anyone out like that's not a Buddy Heeled thing,
it's clearly not a Brandon Perjemski thing. You don't have
anyone else that is going to bring that to you.
And also the Warriors. Now this is in part because
it's it's not a huge aspect of their offense. They
are in the bottom five of drives per game. You
bring in Shrewder, who's around the top fifteen and drives
per game, that will dip because I'm assuming he'll wind
up playing fewer minutes in Golden State. But he's at
fifteen point eight drives per thirty six minutes. That rim
pressure matters. He's not the best finisher around the rim,
But the Doves just don't have a lot of non
bigs who put a ton of pressure on the rim
while also being on the ball. By the way, we
know GP two can get going downhill as a as
a cutter and even after setting screens. But if you're
and Steph could get to wherever he wants, I know
his game isn't necessarily pride it on getting all the
way the basket. If you're looking for someone who has
the juice to get all the way to the rim
while while starting off possessions or ending the like, not
needing things set up for him, like being from a
dead stop and operating and attacking set defenses that way,
there's really you just you throw Steph in there because
he's Steph, and there's Jonathan Kaminga, and that's really it.
That's not even Andrew Wiggins's game, and it never really
even has been. He's always been a settler. So having
Dennis Shooter to do that is a big deal. And
then there's the playmaking opportunities that should come out of that.
When you look at how much like Dennis Shooter's assisting
players on his drives, it's not sky high. It's around
like eleven point five eleven point six percent. I believe
that's still a rock solid number. It's just not unspectacular. However,
he is passing out of forty five point four percent
of his drives. So Golden State is going to let
him drive, he will pass out to players, and so
if he's going to draw defensive attention, he will find
open teammates. Could we see the Golden State Warriors shoot
a higher clip off of his passes and maybe that
was repressing his assist rate when he's getting going downhill
a little bit? Sure, But to just have someone who's
a functional, live dribble passer and can also attack set
defenses in that way, you don't have that in one
player right now. Melton didn't give you that when he
was healthy. You're not going to get Draymond just even
from a dead stop. That's not Draymond's thing. And kaminga
not a good enough passer, even if you believe he's
a good like. Yeah, he is good like. He can
put pressure on defenses, get going downhill, and Podjemski doesn't bring.
He's not efficient enough of that to the point where
he's going to draw even two to the ball or
send defenses into to havoc. And I will be interesting
how much they allow Dennis Shooter to drive and like
the time and space they have to operate where his
strengths are versus trying to fit him into their larger ecosystem, which,
to be clear, can look beea utiful when it's really humming.
But you're now integrating someone who that's never he's never
played really a Warriors type style of basketball, and now
we're doing this midstream to where he's not going to
have a ton of time to acclimate himself. And if
he's I think when players come typically when when they're
not stars, and even when they are stars, they're going
to look to defer even more. But as of right now,
even if that just holds, he's passing out of drives
about as often as Jalen Brunson. And now Jalen Brunson
is a feature option. You want him to score. But
like Jalen Brunson, working in spacing and just deferring on
forty five, he's at forty five point nine percent is
his past ready out of drives. That's a perfectly acceptable
area to be in. Let's just see what it translates
to when you look at the types of shots he's
setting up for Golden State. Now, the macro fit here
is super interesting, and so getting into that, you can
look at where Denis Shooter has ranked thanks to be
Ball Index while in Brooklyn in what I would deem
certain key categories. And so I really am focusing on
the playmaking aspect here because we're gonna assume, yes, he
will play with Steph and that matters for playing the
Steph will make that easier on him. You should get
like to assists to Steph per game, I would hope. However,
I don't know that we appreciated just how much Dennis
Shruder was setting up teammates in Brooklyn like he was
the guy for like Cam Thomas can be the guy
on the ball, but not as a passer like he
was the guy sort of driving that for them. And
so you look at box creation, which is it was
created by Ben Taylor, and these numbers come from Bee
Ball Index. That's basically the number of open shots a
player cars out for his teammates by drawing defensive attention.
So just think two to the ball or just defense
is collapsing on you. Denis Shruoter is in the ninety
seven percentile of that this season. That is going to
be an outlier relative to most of his career. But
he was doing that on a team that's less talented
than Golden State. So as long as he's still getting downhill,
he should be an excellent fit for them. Now you
get into what he's doing on ball, the on ball
gravity talk about sucking it opponents ninety fourth percentile for that.
That is great, Like that is something Golden State needs.
But if you're going to play him with Steph Curry
a ton, even though Steph's not on the ball a bunch,
you also have to factor in the Draymond Green of
it all is he's gonna spend time with Jonathan kaminga
is He's gonna spend time even with Andrew Wiggins. There
should be more off ball reps for Shrouder. You can
look at this in a couple of ways, and the
positive would be his off ball gravity is in the
ninety sixth percentile, and so you're gonna look mostly at
set three pointers there. That's good. That defenses respect him enough.
That's a positive indicator. He's also just like half court
shot making efficiency, he's in the seventy seventh percentile. That's
pretty good when you consider he wasn't necessarily getting the
easiest shots in Brooklyn because of how integral he was,
how central he was to the offense. And he's even
shooting I think he's like on pull up twos, he's
a close to sixty percent on the season. I don't
expect that those numbers to hold, but like that's the
he was should He was shouldering a pretty big self
creation burden. That may not it's not gonna change in
a lot of lineups, but it is going to shift
some in Golden State. And I think you can get
a little bit concerned when you look at the time
spent off ball. He's in the second percentile of that
this year, and he's never been a super high volume
off ball player, like just time spending away from the
action there. That's going to be something to monitor because
I would in certain lineups, if you're gonna play him
with step and Dre at the same time, I think
that would be the most critical. There's gonna have to
be some adaptation there, or maybe you just expect Steph
fits around everybody. Draymond Green knows how to play away
from the ball, and if he needs to drive things
for them, I just don't. When those two are also
on the floor, you're not expected to see the more
conventional offensive sets that Dennis Shooter might be used to,
and so I'm super fascinated to see how he fits
in there. His off ball shot making efficiency the seventy
eight percentile, that is again it's more than acceptable. I'm
saying acceptable and it comes across as a bad thing,
but you have to now scale that ahead. But what
I think Golden State has done here is they've made
themselves a lot better without giving up any core assets,
and so you have still held your powder to make
another move, and I would advocate we have to see
how this pans out. Maybe Golden State's offense takes off
like Gangbusters here, but you have at least begun to
address one of your biggest issues. And I would just
say the offense during the non Steff minutes, even if
you just want to look at it from that perspective.
If you're asking whether Dennis Shruder can run maybe some
less talented units and get closer to the league average
in offense, I would hazard if you're getting this version
of him, the one that we saw in Brooklyn, you
absolutely can, and like that is just a big deal
of itself. The bigger question is going to be I'm
not even too worried about the defense just because of
the surrounding personnel Golden State has. Now, if it gets
a little wonky, if you're ever looking to play him
with I'll say this, I don't think we're ever gonna
see Steph, Buddy Heald, and Dennis Shruter on the court together,
and if we do, then I'll be very curious about
the defense. But I don't think this is someone who
comes in and makes the defense so much worse that
you're concerned about them losing that aspect of their identity.
I think they will be. I think they have the
defense of depth around them, especially the way that Andrew
Wiggins has played this year, for that to pan out
and they say, look, they're okay playing undersized. All their
bigs are basically undersized, and Gary Payton the second is
essentially a big that is just super small. So I
have confidence in that. I have confidence again in him
being able to translate what he did in Brooklyn to
Golden State units where they're using him as the central option.
My question would be what does he just look like
off ball with this team, And then to kind of
circle back to what I'm confident in, my other question
would be how much are they gonna let Dennis Shreuter
be Dennis Shruter? And I don't I don't know the
answer to that question. That'll be the thing of watching
most closely. But even if it doesn't work out, I
think you've made yourself. I think they're a more attractive
trade partner now with it, because if you're a team
and one, you always want expiring contracts, So Dan fee
Meltain would have been that, but now you have someone
who's actually playing, who's having a career year, and so
if you're just a team. Let's use Miami as an
example where if you're getting rid of Jimmy Butler, if
that ends up being a trade, not saying it will be,
They're not a team that's necessarily oh, we want to rebuild.
And so if you get someone in Dennis Shruter, who
when Tyler Hero and Terry Rozier there, how in should
would you be in keeping him Dennis Shruter though he's
playing and is someone that teams could be interested in
keeping moving forward, even if it's if he winds up
on the Blazers or the I mean, the Blazers could
actually use a reserve playmaker. I know they have Scoot
and Banton and Sharp, and Simon's is just not enough,
even if he ends up on the Wizards. Maybe it's
someone you say, hey, think about the Wizards kind of
did with Jonnas Valentunis, even though I don't. You're not
gonna get a ton for him? Think about No, let's
do this, think about what the Pacers did with Bruce Brown.
If you can sign someone that you're not intent on keeping,
like to just use them as a trade asset and
flip them that way, even if it's more of a
salary anchor. I think Denis Shuoter is he's He's certainly
in that tier of players. So there might be teams
that you want to trade for him, like you view
him as a net positive asset, not just because he's expiring,
because you want to keep him around for whatever reason.
Maybe again, even though you're selling to Golden State in
that deal, perhaps you're looking to still be better or
stay good right now, or be better for next season,
in which case Dennis Shruter is maybe someone who can
help you drive that wagon. And I think for Golden State,
I'm not Look, they have the salary filler we named,
we went through a bunch of the contracts before. They
can still make stuff happen without including Shrewd and maybe
getting him depending on how he pans out, that will
shape the scope of their future trade discussions. But I
think that what they've done here, Okay, yeah, if you're
not including Shooter, then you don't have those three seconds
to include. But when you're just looking from an ass like,
let's treat this strictly as an asset perspective, a trade
asset argument. Dennis Schreuder to me, is a better trade
asset this season than danfy Melton with a torn acl
on an expiring contract and three second round picks, and
so you've now major team better. I mean, you're getting
someone who could play, but it's Dennis Shooter who should help.
I won't say he'll address all your biggest problems. He
will help address some of your biggest areas of concern
if he's able to keep up his current level of
performance or anything close to it, while then also increasing
your appeal on the trade market. I think this is
a very smart move by the Warriors. I'm still it's
not morbidly curious. I'm just fascinated to see how it
plays out offensively and what Dennis Shruder's role looks like
here and how well he winds up fitting in. But
I am encouraged that. I don't view this as and
there were reports that they kind of looked at frameworks
that included Cam Johnson hopefully couldn't get to it, so
they want to bust up the core. I think when
you're not getting a star and it's this early, I'm
not going to take that to mean that Golden State
is trying to take a half measure. If this is
the only move they make this year, unless following this trade,
they are like the best or second best team in
the Western Conference. I would deem that unacceptable. I think
this show's actual aggression because they made the move so early,
and they put themselves in a position to still be
flexible with contracts to move in future trades, so there's
still a team to watch the Blockbuster. They would still
be a team to watch for Jimmy Butler. They're probably
not a team to watch for Zach Lavine, even though
they're certainly I feel like this probably takes them out
of anyone who thought they might go the Anthony Simons
or Zach Lavine route. This does kind of I feel
like put that to bed in the sense of what
we'd rather just get Denis Shruter without giving up a first,
rather than bringing any of those two guys in or
someone like them, where we're giving up first and then
we already have Dennis Shruter on the roster, So maybe
it takes them out of those runnings that they were
probably never in to begin with. But this also could
increase the scope of what they're searching for on the
trade markets, where if Dennis Shruter is really stabilizing non
steph units and looks like a pretty good fit in
the starting five, or very things panning out for you offensively.
Does the priority become all right? We don't feel like
we need a traditional number two option. We want a
title like that just a couple of years ago. And
let's go after a big man, a complimentary big man.
Robert Williams. The third is still healthy. Let's go take
a look at look at him, and we think that's
someone who gives us like you know, you want them
to run more pick and rolls. There go someone who
can set screens, get to the rim, also make plays
out of the short role. Him and Denis Shruder would
be a good partnership. I Grant and I had talked
about this, and I'll probably ask Grant a little bit
more about the trade when we do our mailbag, because
you're gonna join our discord and flood us with questions
that we're gonna have to cut some of them. We're
gonna feel really bad, but we normally try to get
to all of them. Still, I think that the war
has already had more optionality than I expected, because I
kind of had them doa for the seasons where I
thought they're gonna be super middling and we have evidence
that they're performative and not going to chase a big
fish or make the upgrades necessary. I'm still skeptical as
to how aggressive or how earnest, how committed they are
to making that big swing, but the fact that they
made this type of a swing so early it bodes well.
And so this is a team that had a i think,
the flexibility to say, yes, you want them to get
a number two option, but maybe they are good enough
because of what their defense has done largely this year
and because of their depth, that you can go out
and address some of your needs with less than stars
and ride depth and ride players who might be just
get someone who's more dynamic on offense for you. And
that's what they've done, and they've increased their optionality even further.
I think because of what Dennis Shruder's value will continue
to be on the trademark if he plays well. Those
are my thoughts. Let me know how you're feeling about
this trade. Let me know too, if you're thinking that
this might be a prelude to a very busy NBA
trade season. We normally don't get trades on before December fifteenth.
We have two trades reported but let alone on December
fifteenth exactly. So that's kind of cool, and maybe it
runs counter to the prevailing sentiment around the league that
as teams try to still figure out this first Apron
second apron stuff and how limited and complex some of
these rules are, that it's going to really nuke the
trade market for at least a foreseeable future. Does this
disprove that here's crossing our fingers, because look, I know
some people don't love transactions. That's a huge part of
what happens in the NBA. It's a huge part of
what gets reported and talked about, and when nothing ever
happens coming off of that, it gets a little boring.
So let's manifest that this is just a sign of
more emergency podcasts, hopefully not solo. This wasn't a one
that I'm gonna pull Grant Hues out very early morning
West Coast time on a Sunday to do. But until
next time, it as always please remember to subscribe to
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this podcast. We appreciate the shout outs, love all the support.
I really appreciate. We get all the Spotify rap screenshots
said to us about us being in the top five
of people's you know, listen to podcasts, and that always
it always humbles me that there's so many people that
not just listen to us, but also like, oh, we're
in the top five of their podcast rotation. It does
mean a lot to me, so once again, and it
means a lot to Grant as well. I know that
for a fact. So thanks again for all your support.
Let me know in the comments what you think or
our discord go join it if you're listening with us
on audio, what you think of this Dantis shooter for
the Warriors trade. And finally, until next time, we get
a shot out to one you know only think Elmo,
but legendary rank healer