Speaker 1: With Laurent Seglement from London and Gerard Reed from Berlin.
Speaker 1: This is redefining.
Speaker 2: Energy today, on redefining energy job. It's the beginning of
Speaker 2: Cup twenty nine. Good morning, Baku.
Speaker 3: And you've been to COPS in the past.
Speaker 1: I haven't.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I've been to Cops seven, Coup nine, Cop ten.
Speaker 2: And at the time it was party, party, party, I
Speaker 2: mean we got drunk every night, and you.
Speaker 3: Made lots of the missions because you had to fly
Speaker 3: to all these exotic places, I know.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, going a bit into the history of Bakhu,
Speaker 2: I learned that oil drilling started in Baku a decade
Speaker 2: before Connel Drake in Pennsylvania. Really okay, yeah, oh my god,
Speaker 2: didn't know that, okay. And in nineteen hundred Bakhu was
Speaker 2: producing more oil than the US.
Speaker 1: No that letter.
Speaker 2: And the king pins of the oil industry under the
Speaker 2: TZAR were the Nobel Brothers and now you have the
Speaker 2: Nobel Prize all from Sweden, right, okay, And they were
Speaker 2: in partnership with a company called Shell. Never heard of them.
Speaker 2: I never heard of them. And the Rothschild, oh all
Speaker 2: of them all right, Okay, that's funny, Lauren, Okay, I
Speaker 2: like that, and around that time that the employee was
Speaker 2: kind of restless, young Georgian who apparently created the strikes
Speaker 2: in their refinery. And his name was Joseph Stalin.
Speaker 3: All right, okay, that's funny.
Speaker 2: Before he became a gangster. Okay, enough talking about the past.
Speaker 2: We have a great guest who are very privileged. We
Speaker 2: have a lord. Great to have for those who don't
Speaker 2: know Low Turner. He was really instrumental in developing UK
Speaker 2: climate change policy. Absolutely, he was the first chair of
Speaker 2: the Climate Change Committee and at the same time he
Speaker 2: was head of the Financial Services Authority during the Financial crisis.
Speaker 2: So this guy has been taking on big challenges in
Speaker 2: his life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's no Chair of the Energy Transition Commission.
Speaker 2: Which is a group of leading CEOs committed to achieving
Speaker 2: NETZIO by mid century. A very respected voice, both with
Speaker 2: an unjumented background and a finance background. We're welcoming l
Speaker 2: Turner to talk about cop exactly. Adair, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: Thank you, great pleasure to be here, Darlie.
Speaker 4: We're going to talk today about cop but before we
Speaker 4: do that, I think you actually need to explain to
Speaker 4: people what cop is.
Speaker 1: The cops are Conferences of the parties, and they go
Speaker 1: back to the nineteen nineties when the governments of the
Speaker 1: world first agreed the unf Triple C at the UN
Speaker 1: Framework Convention on Climate Change, an agreement to take action
Speaker 1: together in a cooperative fashion to limit the impact of
Speaker 1: climate change, and that led to a set of annual
Speaker 1: usually annual conferences called the Conference of the Party's COP
Speaker 1: and they have gone on over the years, and some
Speaker 1: of them have been much more important than others. One
Speaker 1: of the most important was COP twenty one in Paris
Speaker 1: in December twenty fifteen, where for the first time all
Speaker 1: the parties at that COP actually agreed a temperature limit
Speaker 1: to limit global warming to well below two degrees centigrade
Speaker 1: above pre industrial levels, and ideally to limit it to
Speaker 1: one point five degrees. Since Paris in twenty one, there's
Speaker 1: been a series. There was also one in the UK
Speaker 1: in Glasgow in it was going to be actually in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, but it got laid by COVID. It was
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one. Then there's one been one in Egypt.
Speaker 1: Then there was one last year COP twenty eight run
Speaker 1: by the United Emirates in Dubai, and this year the
Speaker 1: COP is under the presidency. The organizers will be the
Speaker 1: Azerbaijanis and it is in Baku.
Speaker 2: How many people go to KOP and I guess they're
Speaker 2: all not doing the same things, so you must have
Speaker 2: different concentrates, sir.
Speaker 1: Well. The absolute core of the COP is an inter
Speaker 1: governmental negotiation. And I forget how many countries are there,
Speaker 1: but it's getting up to one hundred and nineties. Basically
Speaker 1: all the countries in the world are there. They sent
Speaker 1: a cluster into what are called negotiating groups. Of the rich,
Speaker 1: developed countries, the poorer countries, the most vulnerable island states
Speaker 1: go into a negotiating group, and those are the countries
Speaker 1: all of the countries in the world and the negotiating
Speaker 1: groups which try to agree the things which are actually
Speaker 1: in the communicate the agreement at the end of COP
Speaker 1: and those can be agreements to set the targets, they
Speaker 1: can be agreements to have rules on how you report emissions.
Speaker 1: They have something called Article six which is under negotiation
Speaker 1: to how you can trade carbon emissions between countries. But
Speaker 1: there is this intergovernmental process and there is a part
Speaker 1: of a COP which has a whole load of diplomats
Speaker 1: from governments attempting to agree. What has tended to happen
Speaker 1: at COPS, and it has grown and grown over the years,
Speaker 1: is that around that actual inter governmental process there are
Speaker 1: many people there from NGOs arguing for ambitious carbon action,
Speaker 1: and there are many people from businesses, in particular businesses
Speaker 1: interested in the business of climate change mitigation. And there
Speaker 1: are financial institutions. So the thing up as both the
Speaker 1: inner core is a negotiation and attempt to progress the
Speaker 1: intergovernmental agreement, but round it a lot of people holding panels,
Speaker 1: holding discussions and indeed meeting and doing business deals. You know,
Speaker 1: people who are interested in developing gridlinks between one country
Speaker 1: and another, but people who are arguing for one point
Speaker 1: of view or another. And that's what it is. The
Speaker 1: numbers vary. I think by COP twenty eight there are
Speaker 1: probably thirty thousand people there in Dubai. I believe it
Speaker 1: is less this year, but I don't have the precise figures.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope eighty five thousand in Dubai.
Speaker 1: It'll be much less this year because the bluntly there
Speaker 1: aren't enough hotels or hostels in Baku to take anything
Speaker 1: like that number. They are huge events, true to say,
Speaker 1: they have a huge carbon footprint of all those people
Speaker 1: flying across the world to go to an event like that.
Speaker 1: I do worry myself as to whether it is justified
Speaker 1: to go. I haven't onto all cops and I did
Speaker 1: have a debate with myself about whether I should go
Speaker 1: to this one in Baku. From our Energy Transition Commission
Speaker 1: last year we had a significant number when to Dubai.
Speaker 1: We had much rather bigger numbers go to Glasgow when
Speaker 1: we could all go by train. This year there will
Speaker 1: be just two of us going there, but I think
Speaker 1: it is worthwhile. We will be trying to argue for
Speaker 1: some of the policies and actions that we believe in,
Speaker 1: and different cops have been varied in effectiveness in terms
Speaker 1: of how much we really progress the agenda and actually
Speaker 1: get decisions that make a difference.
Speaker 4: So a dare what are your priorities then when you
Speaker 4: go there.
Speaker 1: In previous years we have had a close relationship with
Speaker 1: the COP presidency. We have actually had a semi official
Speaker 1: role or an advisory role in helping those COP presidencies
Speaker 1: work out what might happen to emissions if the commitments
Speaker 1: that they've managed to negotiate were st to And we've
Speaker 1: been involved in that process. We do not have that
Speaker 1: relationship with the Azerbaijani COP presidency. We are, however, trying
Speaker 1: to get over many of our messages, above all about
Speaker 1: the technological possibility and priorities. Even if we can get
Speaker 1: very pessimistic about the progress of international agreement on climate
Speaker 1: change and the fact that emissions are still creeping up
Speaker 1: and have not reached a peak, even if we should
Speaker 1: be worried that the climate is warming, it'll go over
Speaker 1: one point five degrees above pre industrial levels this year,
Speaker 1: and we are seeing large climate effects. The thing that
Speaker 1: actually makes one optimistic is that underlying that the technologies
Speaker 1: which help can help us dramatically reduce emissions, solar photo ortaics,
Speaker 1: wind turbines, long duration storage, extensive long distance grids, batteries,
Speaker 1: electric vehicles are progressed far faster than we used to
Speaker 1: dream as possible, and we will be making that argument
Speaker 1: and putting forward the argument for that. I will also
Speaker 1: be engaged in something called the Industrial Transition Accelerator discussions.
Speaker 1: The ITA was launched at COP twenty eight in Dubai
Speaker 1: last year. It is an official part of the COP
Speaker 1: process rolling forward to COP thirty in Brazil. And on
Speaker 1: to COP thirty one in Australia, and it is about
Speaker 1: a set of actions that can be taken to energize
Speaker 1: the decarbonization of hard to abate sectors of the economy
Speaker 1: like steel and cement and aviation and shipping, where it
Speaker 1: would be great if we can have a global common
Speaker 1: vision of how to get there. So that will be
Speaker 1: one other very specific topic where I will be involved
Speaker 1: in discussions and trying to make the arguments for rapid
Speaker 1: action in that area.
Speaker 2: What would you say to people who say, you know,
Speaker 2: the Old Cup movement kind of peaked between Paris and Glasgow.
Speaker 2: Glasgow it was the top of the ESG movement, and
Speaker 2: what all these initiative flowing from all the place. And
Speaker 2: now when you look at the situation of the world
Speaker 2: as it is right now, China they are doing their
Speaker 2: things and probably they're doing their thing faster than expected.
Speaker 2: The Trump just got reelected, so that doesn't board well.
Speaker 2: Europe is like what six percent of the world emission,
Speaker 2: so I don't know if if he counter as European.
Speaker 2: So the war in Ukraine, do you still think that
Speaker 2: COPP has much relevance that it used to have a
Speaker 2: few years ago?
Speaker 1: At one level, I'm always amazed that the COP process
Speaker 1: produces anything. This is a conference of one hundred and
Speaker 1: eighty five hundred and ninety whatever it is countries, some
Speaker 1: of them are at war with each other, some of
Speaker 1: it which are locked in extreme political disagreement and tension,
Speaker 1: and they're trying to get a unanimous agreement on a
Speaker 1: common problem. At one level, you could say it's amazing
Speaker 1: we ever agree anything, and thank god we do agree
Speaker 1: because at least gives us a chance of at least
Speaker 1: mitigating somewhat this problem of climate change, which can only
Speaker 1: be solved if we managed to get some global agreement.
Speaker 1: I think you may be right that we are not
Speaker 1: in a great period in terms of achieving further progress.
Speaker 1: I think actually COP twenty eight did manage to make progress.
Speaker 1: I think Glasgow did, Paris undoubtedly did. What is true
Speaker 1: is that there probably was a high point of the
Speaker 1: consensus across companies and the private sector in favor of
Speaker 1: action on climate change, which was widest somewhere around COP
Speaker 1: twenty six in Glasgow and COP twenty eight in Dubai.
Speaker 1: And that consensus has, I think eroded above all in
Speaker 1: the States, and the States clearly has now a governing
Speaker 1: party with a newly elected president who will be in
Speaker 1: place by the end of January, most of whom actually
Speaker 1: deny the existence of climate change, and those who don't
Speaker 1: still don't want to take major actions. That is a
Speaker 1: major setback. And even before that we had seen significant
Speaker 1: examples of for instance, US financial institutions getting much less
Speaker 1: ambitious in terms of what they said they would achieve,
Speaker 1: in part because they were getting under pressure from Republican
Speaker 1: run states not to pursue this quote esg agenda. So
Speaker 1: look compared with how I thought about the world when
Speaker 1: I went up to Glasgow in November twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: I am much more worried about the ability of the
Speaker 1: world to agree action that can deal with what is
Speaker 1: a huge challenge for humanity. On the other hand, I
Speaker 1: can tell you that over those three years, the cost
Speaker 1: of solar PV panels has come down another fifty percent,
Speaker 1: the cost of storage batteries has come down another twenty
Speaker 1: five percent. The cost of evs in China is now
Speaker 1: cheaper than internal combustion engines. So one lives with a
Speaker 1: disconnect between an increasing technological possibility that if we could
Speaker 1: only get really forceful international agreement, we would get to
Speaker 1: a net zero economy far more cheaply than we used
Speaker 1: to dare hope was possible, but the direction of change
Speaker 1: in the politics has not been favorable. Russia's invasion of
Speaker 1: Ukraine unleashed energy price increases. There weren't energy price increases
Speaker 1: of gas above all, but that a cost of living crisis,
Speaker 1: which made it much more politically difficult in Europe and
Speaker 1: the US to have support for strong action on climate change.
Speaker 1: The recovery from COVID plus the Ukraine War unleashed generalized inflation,
Speaker 1: which has also driven up interest rates and the cost
Speaker 1: of capital, which has increased the cost of investing in
Speaker 1: the new technologies with which we'll build a zero carbon economy.
Speaker 1: So those are undoubtedly policy and macroeconomic headwinds that we
Speaker 1: didn't face three years ago, which balance against the fact
Speaker 1: that the progress of the technologies has been quite as fast,
Speaker 1: indeed much faster than we had previously believed possible.
Speaker 4: Derek, can you talk a little bit about how you
Speaker 4: see China and the role of the gone for and
Speaker 4: where I think I'm coming from, And Laurana, I'm sure
Speaker 4: with a greet me, it's just what we're seeing is
Speaker 4: I mean, they seem to be leading the electrification of everything,
Speaker 4: of transform electrications and the renewabilization of electrication.
Speaker 1: China is now absolutely central to whether the world limits
Speaker 1: global warming to one point seven or to where we
Speaker 1: end up. Absolutely central. It is responsible for around a
Speaker 1: third of all global emissions now about twelve gigatons of
Speaker 1: CO two out of thirty six gigatons or so, and
Speaker 1: it's emissions per capita are now very high. China has
Speaker 1: higher emissions per capita than Europe and much higher emissions
Speaker 1: co capita than the UK, and its emissions have not
Speaker 1: yet peaked. All of which you say, well, that's a problem.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, let's be clear, China is absolutely
Speaker 1: leading the development of the technologies which will fix this problem.
Speaker 1: Anybody who thinks that China is taking other people's intellectual
Speaker 1: property and then commercialize itself is just living in out
Speaker 1: cuckoo land. The Chinese companies in these technologies are at
Speaker 1: the absolute cutting edge of technological development. The major solar
Speaker 1: PV companies Long and Trinner and Jinker. These are the
Speaker 1: people who are driving up the efficiency and driving down
Speaker 1: the cost of solar PV panels. Year after year after year.
Speaker 1: Companies like Bid and Coatl are at the absolute cutting
Speaker 1: edge of new battery chemistries, which are giving us remarkable
Speaker 1: breakthroughs in terms of what's called energy density, how much
Speaker 1: energy you can pack into a kilogram or a liter
Speaker 1: of a battery, which then enables you to produce electric
Speaker 1: vehicles with much longer range, and they are driving the
Speaker 1: development of evs. They're also driving the development of really
Speaker 1: really cheap storage batteries that enable you to have a
Speaker 1: solar panel, put a battery next to it, and in
Speaker 1: the sunny parts of the world where shines pretty much
Speaker 1: every day, you've got a complete electricity solution because of
Speaker 1: the technologies being developed in China. So they are, at
Speaker 1: one level a huge part of the challenge, but they
Speaker 1: are a huge part of the solution, and they are
Speaker 1: deploying renewables at an extraordinary pace and way beyond the
Speaker 1: targets they've set. They still have an official target of
Speaker 1: achieving twelve hundred gigawatts of wind and solar in place
Speaker 1: by twenty thirty. They have already shot through that and
Speaker 1: people believe that they could have well over three thousand
Speaker 1: gigawatts in place by twenty thirty, and that, by the way,
Speaker 1: illustrates an interesting thing about how China plays its hand
Speaker 1: in global negotiations. It always over delivers what it promises.
Speaker 1: It doesn't promise as much as it should, given its
Speaker 1: role in emissions, but whatever it promises it over delivers.
Speaker 1: It has currently promised that it will quote peak emissions
Speaker 1: before twenty thirty. Everybody who is following China or ever
Speaker 1: he talks to Chinese policymakers know that they will peak
Speaker 1: emissions in about twenty twenty six and will be already
Speaker 1: quite a bit down by twenty thirty. But for whatever
Speaker 1: reason about the way they believe in playing international negotiations,
Speaker 1: they're not willing to set that. There was a famous
Speaker 1: debate at Glasgow between the Americans and them, and the
Speaker 1: Americans saying, you have an ambition gap. You're not being
Speaker 1: ambitious enough relative to your responsibilities on how rapidly you
Speaker 1: woul bring down emissions, and the Chinese were applying to
Speaker 1: the Americans, Yeah, but you've got an implementation gap. You
Speaker 1: make these promises, but you don't deliver them. But look,
Speaker 1: China is a crucial It becomes even more crucial with
Speaker 1: Donald Trump as president of the US and actually the
Speaker 1: relationship between Europe and China on climate change and the
Speaker 1: extent to which we can agree to work together on
Speaker 1: some aspects of this even if the US is not present,
Speaker 1: because Trump may pull the US completely out of this
Speaker 1: process and not attend COPS in future. That European China relationship,
Speaker 1: I think is going to be crucial, and what we
Speaker 1: need to be doing is basically, first of all, welcoming
Speaker 1: the technology progress they've made and lauding them for it
Speaker 1: and treating them with the respect that they deserve for
Speaker 1: this extraordinary technological progress, and making a claim that we
Speaker 1: welcome that technology here in Europe through for instance, Chinese
Speaker 1: inward investors, while simultaneously challenging them and saying, guys, your
Speaker 1: emissions per capita are now higher than European. You're not
Speaker 1: bringing them down as fast as we are, and we've
Speaker 1: got to work together to bring both of our emissions
Speaker 1: down as fast as possible, and also work together to
Speaker 1: take finance and technology to parts of the world like
Speaker 1: Africa where the new technologies are so powerful that they
Speaker 1: really do provide Africa with an opportunity to build hugely
Speaker 1: more extensive electricity systems and provide electricity to the mass
Speaker 1: of African people almost entirely based on renewables. Given the costs,
Speaker 1: they don't need fossil fuels any longer. But to do that,
Speaker 1: we need low cost finance to flow to Africa. So
Speaker 1: finance from Europe and from China. Solar panels and batteries
Speaker 1: from China could revolutionize the situation in Africa, and we
Speaker 1: should be agreeing to work together to achieve that.
Speaker 2: But at the same time we put tariffs on the
Speaker 2: Chinese vs in Europe.
Speaker 1: We did, but those by the way, the UK has
Speaker 1: not put tariffs, and as I understand it has no
Speaker 1: intention of putting tariffs on China evs. The UK has
Speaker 1: a commitment to drive towards electric vehicles, to ban the
Speaker 1: sale of internal bustion engines in the UK by twenty thirty,
Speaker 1: and I think our new government correctly realizes that it
Speaker 1: can only meet that if it welcomes a cheap, small
Speaker 1: Chinese evs to provide evs for the masses, rather than
Speaker 1: the beautiful but very expensive premium evs which the European
Speaker 1: automotive industry has concentrated in providing. Even in Europe. It's
Speaker 1: important to realize that the tariffs have been imposed. It
Speaker 1: was controversial. The Spanish Prime Minister, for instance, spoke against them,
Speaker 1: the CEO of Mercedes spoke against them, but there was
Speaker 1: an overall majority consensus for them. But they have not
Speaker 1: been set at the level of the US Chinese EV tariffs,
Speaker 1: which were just set at one hundred percent, a figure
Speaker 1: just plucked out of the air, and with the deliberate
Speaker 1: design of making sure that almost no Chinese evs go
Speaker 1: into the US. The European ones were based on nownalysis,
Speaker 1: which was attempting to be somewhat in line with WTO rules,
Speaker 1: looking at what level of subsidy did we think that
Speaker 1: current Chinese operators were receiving from the Chinese government, And
Speaker 1: for instance, it's set a differential rate for different companies
Speaker 1: from China according to whether they were private companies or
Speaker 1: state owned companies. Now I still think those towers were
Speaker 1: set too high, but at the level they've been set,
Speaker 1: they will not be an absolute barrier to Chinese evs
Speaker 1: coming into Europe, and I hope we will see excellent
Speaker 1: Chinese coming evs coming into Europe as well as into
Speaker 1: the UK. And I think I hope we will also
Speaker 1: see excellent Chinese automative manufacturers, such as for instance, BYD
Speaker 1: opening factories in the UK and in Europe. So yes,
Speaker 1: there has been pushed back in Europe. But I think Europe,
Speaker 1: in its attempts to develop domestic supply chains, is going
Speaker 1: to get a much more balanced policy mix of saying
Speaker 1: we want the benefit of Chinese cost and Chinese technology,
Speaker 1: but yeah, we do want some of the jobs and
Speaker 1: value added in Europe, and I think they're trying to
Speaker 1: hit a balance there Whereas I'm afraid the US policy
Speaker 1: is as it is perceived in China and attempt to
Speaker 1: just as the Chinese put it, keep China down and
Speaker 1: deny them economic opportunity. And I'm sure it will come
Speaker 1: that under Donald Trump, unfortunately, and.
Speaker 2: The fine that question good cop or bad cop.
Speaker 1: I don't have greater expectations for it. I hope that
Speaker 1: the Memento will be achieved, and I think some of
Speaker 1: the biggest areas of momentum may be away from the
Speaker 1: debate about finance, away from the debate about targets. I
Speaker 1: don't expect to see a big step forward in the
Speaker 1: overall big you know, communicate figures, but some of the
Speaker 1: debates and the targets which people are proposing on. Let's
Speaker 1: all agree that the world needs much more long duration storage.
Speaker 1: Let's all agree that the world is going to need
Speaker 1: much more long distance grids and transmission lines. Those declarative
Speaker 1: statements actually do energize a private investment behind the technologies
Speaker 1: that we need. So if I'm looking for something good
Speaker 1: out of COP, I think it's probably more likely to
Speaker 1: come in those rather specific areas rather than the more
Speaker 1: political and policy agreement areas where I think we'll see
Speaker 1: only very slow propose are.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Thank you, thank you very much.
Speaker 3: So on this is over to you. You've been a cop,
Speaker 3: you know ed very well. I'd like to hear your
Speaker 3: thoughts on COP going forward.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm going to rant. That's what I'm good at.
Speaker 2: On one hand, a world with scups is always better
Speaker 2: than the world without COP. It's good that the Head
Speaker 2: of States this a week per year we are gathered
Speaker 2: together and concentrate on the climate. Now, of course, this year,
Speaker 2: literally nobody's going to be there. Seizing thing's not going
Speaker 2: to be there, Muddy is not going to be there,
Speaker 2: Marcron shirts Biden. Of course, so you really wonder what's
Speaker 2: the point once you remove the head of states. And now,
Speaker 2: of course you get all those debates of our Article six,
Speaker 2: which really nobody cares about except a few diplomat experts,
Speaker 2: and you managed to bring a lot of the countries
Speaker 2: because we the West are supposed to feel bad about
Speaker 2: the historic responsibilities, so we all out money finances called
Speaker 2: the finance cup. So how we're going to finance the
Speaker 2: energy transition in developing countries? Well, I think China has
Speaker 2: done a lot, bringing the price of panels from one
Speaker 2: dollar to ten cents. But what I don't know if
Speaker 2: there is still a debate which is a bit of
Speaker 2: old style, you know, World Bank multilaterrole. I mean it
Speaker 2: is very heavy in a energy transition which is very decentralized.
Speaker 2: So I think there's a bit of a mismatch. Look
Speaker 2: at the end, it's a clearing house for emission accounting.
Speaker 2: That's good. Yeah, I mean those scopes, I really wonder
Speaker 2: if they're not turning irrelevant. Knowing that it's very likely
Speaker 2: that the US are going to pull the plug on
Speaker 2: the whole climate agenda. The climate agenda was not even
Speaker 2: discussed in the US elections. It was not really a point.
Speaker 1: So yeah, listen on the US, Laurund.
Speaker 3: I mean the reality is inflation Reduction Act is in place.
Speaker 3: It's about jobs and energy security that's not going to stop.
Speaker 3: So that means US installations going forward of when solar
Speaker 3: clean energy cars, it's going to increase. So I'm not
Speaker 3: so negative about the US. And by the way, the
Speaker 3: other thing that makes me positive is the fact that
Speaker 3: the pattern has been taken by China, and China is
Speaker 3: not just talking. They're doing and they're leading the way,
Speaker 3: and it's not about us going forward. It's about what
Speaker 3: is the rest the global cell going to do, and
Speaker 3: they're going to follow China. That's great. So I'm actually
Speaker 3: quite positive.
Speaker 2: I no, no, no, I'm super positive about the energy transition.
Speaker 2: I'm really asking myself, does it make sense to bring
Speaker 2: fifty thousand people in a place and mostly oil lobbyists,
Speaker 2: to talk about climate and discuss for ages. Do we
Speaker 2: phasing phase out, phase down fossil fuels? I mean, market
Speaker 2: forces and technologies are going to do the job. I agree,
Speaker 2: And it's all well and fine to discuss climate, but
Speaker 2: less than one thousand kilometers away you've got Russian sending
Speaker 2: missiles every night on Kieth. I don't want to talk
Speaker 2: about the Middle East because what happens there makes me sick.
Speaker 2: There are more urgent problems in the world and discussing cops.
Speaker 2: We don't do politics here and anyway, we don't vote.
Speaker 2: But you know, the US election leaves me a bit
Speaker 2: of a bitter taste because, as you said, for climate,
Speaker 2: at least the Democrats have really done a fantastic job.
Speaker 2: I hope some revengeful guys are not going to go
Speaker 2: Aftersha was on an exceptional a doe and you know
Speaker 2: all the respect we have for him. Life continues by Delia.
Speaker 2: I used to say, we lost the one next Okay,
Speaker 2: So in conclusion, I wish all the participants to cop
Speaker 2: a good time. I'm not how much alcohol they can
Speaker 2: drink in Baku, but they're going to talk a lot,
Speaker 2: write a lot of paper. Said that it's very urgent,
Speaker 2: and then see you where is that next year? Brazil.
Speaker 2: That's going to be fun.
Speaker 1: That's gonna be fun.
Speaker 2: Let's go there, Yeah, let's go to cup. Okay, my friend,
Speaker 2: talk to you next week.
Speaker 4: Looking forward to my friend, looking forward toard. Thank you
Speaker 4: for listening to redefining energy. Don't forget to rate the
Speaker 4: show and subscribe on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or the platform
Speaker 4: of your choice.