WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:01.000 What's going on. 2 00:00:01.720 --> 00:00:02.160 Not much. 3 00:00:02.200 --> 00:00:05.719 I've been laughing about how like Trump somehow lost an 4 00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:06.799 election in Canada. 5 00:00:08.599 --> 00:00:09.439 That's really funny. 6 00:00:10.199 --> 00:00:19.000 Yeah, he's it's impressive that quickly. It's all just it's 7 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:21.440 all just going to ship with him. They are like 8 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:26.239 alienating everyone. He made China and Japan are on the 9 00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:33.759 same page. Now, like that is that is? Uh? Man, 10 00:00:34.039 --> 00:00:37.280 you did it, congratulations. If you had intentionally done it, 11 00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:42.439 it would be one of the greatest Lake diplomatic moves. 12 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:49.359 Yeah, you just It's funny though, Like there's a rare 13 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:53.240 or really rare thing can happen in parliamentary politics, and 14 00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:58.920 it happened in Canada. I've seen it happen in Australia, 15 00:00:59.399 --> 00:01:04.319 which is that the guy who was like in line 16 00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:06.120 to BPM because you know, in the parliamentary system, you 17 00:01:06.159 --> 00:01:08.120 don't vote for the guy itself, you vote for the 18 00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:11.040 party and then the party leader becomes head. So you 19 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:15.120 have to have a seat in parliament in order to 20 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:15.840 be able to. 21 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:19.480 Be the head of the party. Right, So our god. 22 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:23.040 Awful piece of shit MP for example, is like the 23 00:01:24.280 --> 00:01:30.680 MP for like Candate. Right, But anyway, Pollybear, the head 24 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:34.680 of the Conservatives, lost his seat like not just like 25 00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:39.319 that the Conservatives lost the election in Canada. He's not 26 00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:44.000 in parliament anymore. Like that's how much, absolutely not And 27 00:01:44.040 --> 00:01:46.959 it's very funny to me. I'm just like I'll take anything. 28 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:52.359 I'll take anything, bro anything, Like I'm just like I'm 29 00:01:52.359 --> 00:01:53.719 hanging on by a fucking thread. 30 00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:59.719 Well, I mean, like, I you know. 31 00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:04.519 Electoral politics is not our salvation. That's not what I'm saying. 32 00:02:04.519 --> 00:02:06.879 What I'm saying is I want to laugh at fascists. 33 00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:11.319 Oh well, I'm doing that every day, Like we like 34 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:16.400 these people are idiots. They're terrible at this. They're like, yeah, 35 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:20.120 like you, what what are we doing here? Like what 36 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:25.919 are you? Like? You you're trying it, but you're not 37 00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:33.360 trying it the way you should do it, and especially 38 00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:35.080 not if you don't want to be under the thumb 39 00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:35.680 of China. 40 00:02:35.879 --> 00:02:40.080 But you know, like I guess that deep in my soul, 41 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:42.680 I think what is happening here is that they have 42 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:49.759 failed to come to grips with the fact that all 43 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:52.400 of this stuff takes takes time. Like if you want 44 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:54.840 to do whatever the fuck this is, you need to 45 00:02:54.919 --> 00:02:57.639 kind of like put in a lot more time and effort. 46 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:00.680 But then the other thing that they have fail to consider, 47 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:04.800 is that America's treat pilled. Oh you know, like we're 48 00:03:05.919 --> 00:03:08.039 the they're the treat lovingest people in the world, and 49 00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:10.719 now the treats aren't coming like oh God, bless y'all 50 00:03:10.719 --> 00:03:11.360 in the next month. 51 00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:12.520 Because it's looking. 52 00:03:13.599 --> 00:03:20.039 I mean, it's uh, yeah, it's if they if they 53 00:03:20.039 --> 00:03:30.960 were doing I know, if you're not, like not only 54 00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:35.479 is it that, it's like how how do you like, 55 00:03:36.520 --> 00:03:38.639 how do you misread this thing with tariffs so bad? 56 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:40.479 You get this one guy who's like, yeah, tariffs are 57 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:44.240 going to fix everything. Trump's on board because like he 58 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:47.000 you know, remembers like some terriffs from when he was younger, 59 00:03:47.240 --> 00:03:49.800 and you know he's read all this stuff, and you 60 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:52.120 know he hates the income tax, so it's going to 61 00:03:52.199 --> 00:03:59.719 replace the tariffs. Like like you like, are they like 62 00:03:59.800 --> 00:04:02.599 they throwing away like so much of this, so much 63 00:04:02.599 --> 00:04:05.800 of their opportunities, so much of everything to fight the 64 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:09.639 stupid thing over tariffs, which is like alienating business, which 65 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:13.719 you don't want to do, which is like pushing all 66 00:04:13.759 --> 00:04:17.279 of your enemies together like against you, which you really 67 00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:22.920 don't want to do, and which is like just you're 68 00:04:22.959 --> 00:04:29.040 doing it for something, so something that that everybody knew 69 00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:33.000 was going everybody knew was going to fail, like everybody 70 00:04:33.079 --> 00:04:35.680 you talk to. I'm not in economics. I don't have 71 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:38.720 an economics degree. I don't respect economists anyway, But like 72 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:43.920 even even I knew, because you like, how how are 73 00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:47.000 like how is that going to replace all the income 74 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:48.959 dext you have? How is that going to even pay 75 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:52.079 for like our military, like the people that you really 76 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:54.600 need to keep happy if you like, how how is 77 00:04:54.680 --> 00:04:56.439 any of that happening? And it's just like. 78 00:04:58.279 --> 00:05:00.240 I just I find it very funny anyway, But because 79 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:02.600 like whenever Americans think they pay too much in taxes, 80 00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:04.360 I just think it's fucking hilarious. 81 00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:06.720 It is like yeah, bro, yeah, that's what's going on. 82 00:05:06.839 --> 00:05:09.639 Uh huh, sure, Yeah. The problem is you don't pay 83 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:13.680 enough in taxes. That's your fucking issue right there. I mean, like, granted, 84 00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:18.959 you know, I've seen good critiques from the left of 85 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:22.040 like what if America tax more because there's like they 86 00:05:22.079 --> 00:05:25.079 would just spend it on more military, And I'm like, oh. 87 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:26.639 Yeah, true, that's probably true. 88 00:05:26.759 --> 00:05:28.800 I mean, like there are a lot of things that 89 00:05:28.839 --> 00:05:32.879 I that I support, but not under this government, like 90 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:35.600 under that yeah, yeah, because they're not because they're not 91 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:39.120 gonna like they're not They're not gonna do it right, 92 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:43.480 They're just gonna suck everything up. They're just gonna quite 93 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:47.439 So you know, I support I support taxing these people 94 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:49.199 more heavily. I support a lot of this stuff, but 95 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:52.040 I don't like for the US to do it. Now. Well, 96 00:05:52.040 --> 00:05:53.560 I mean, first of all, they're not going to and 97 00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:57.519 second of all, if they did, it would be used 98 00:05:57.560 --> 00:06:01.240 for something evil at the very least, So yeah. Fuck. 99 00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:05.040 Meanwhile, I'm here, like to frightened to open, like my 100 00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:09.360 I wrote a ranting email to my MP about trans writes, 101 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:11.399 and like she's written me back, and I'm too afraid 102 00:06:11.439 --> 00:06:12.879 to open, even. 103 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:14.319 Though I want to like go and yell at her 104 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:14.680 in her. 105 00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:17.439 Face because I like demanded a face to face meeting 106 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:20.079 because I was like, say it to my face, Like 107 00:06:20.199 --> 00:06:23.600 tell me all my loved ones I'd like have to 108 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:25.839 show their junk to the bathroom police, say it to 109 00:06:25.879 --> 00:06:26.279 my face. 110 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:29.399 I want you to tell me that. But now I'm like, oh. 111 00:06:29.240 --> 00:06:32.120 No, an email, so. 112 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:35.600 Like fallen at the first hurdle and I'm like, I'm 113 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:36.240 too busy for this. 114 00:06:36.279 --> 00:06:39.240 I gotta go podcast. 115 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:49.800 Well I'm sure it's like uh, women, gender or something something. 116 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:51.680 Yeah, I think it's good. 117 00:06:51.759 --> 00:06:54.720 She's just gonna be like, on the one hand, you're right. 118 00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:57.279 On the other hand, have you considered that we've been 119 00:06:57.319 --> 00:07:02.480 completely captured by five women who are completely insane? It's like, yeah, 120 00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:06.240 I have considered that. Actually, what I what I am 121 00:07:06.279 --> 00:07:08.319 indicating is that you shouldn't be right. 122 00:07:08.839 --> 00:07:11.360 The joys of liberal feminism. 123 00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:14.879 You did it women, Yeah, they're doing great. 124 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:20.680 Yeah, those like thousands or so women or whatever across 125 00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:24.720 the world who have attained like levels of actual power. Congrats, 126 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:26.120 he did it. 127 00:07:26.279 --> 00:07:29.240 That was the peak. That's it. Nice one. Thanks. 128 00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:32.360 Everyone else just gets to hang out and best in that. 129 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:37.879 I guess, right, I mean yeah, which is a lot 130 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:42.360 like uh, people conclaves because it's a real sausage fest. 131 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:44.639 So you know, what, can I say? 132 00:07:45.959 --> 00:07:49.319 You should have some women around to uh, to get 133 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:51.000 a different, different perspective. 134 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:55.720 The legend of Pope Joe notwithstanding, that's right, m hmmm, 135 00:07:56.360 --> 00:07:56.759 quite so. 136 00:07:56.879 --> 00:07:59.120 I know there are a lot of legends that are fun, 137 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:02.360 but it's like, how would you ever believe that the 138 00:08:02.519 --> 00:08:02.839 number of. 139 00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:05.319 People who really want to It's it's interesting. 140 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:07.439 People ask me about it all the time, and they 141 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:10.360 really like that one, yeah. 142 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:10.199 Which I don't. 143 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:13.560 I'm kind of like it's it's funny because like some 144 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:15.279 of some of them want to do it from like 145 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:19.160 a liberal girl power one where they're like girls can 146 00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:21.360 do it too, like go on and gas. 147 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:24.600 Like no they can't, they can't, Like that can't. That's 148 00:08:24.639 --> 00:08:26.040 the thing it's like. 149 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:28.160 And then some people like to do it from a 150 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:32.120 like oh haha, like the perversion of the church stance, 151 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:32.600 you know. 152 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:41.080 I mean, but like I mean, like I. 153 00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:43.759 Fully saw people. 154 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:47.279 I saw people online doing girl boss papacy in. 155 00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:49.960 I did. 156 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:52.120 They're like they're like I would like to see a 157 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:55.159 woman pope and I'm like, well, you're not gonna like that, 158 00:08:55.399 --> 00:08:57.000 Like what are you talking about? 159 00:08:57.039 --> 00:08:59.919 I need I need everyone to understand that you could 160 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:02.600 as religious as you want, and that's great. It is 161 00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:05.960 so good if you have a personal relationship with God 162 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:08.919 that you find meaning in and everything, that is perfectly 163 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:13.399 fucking great. However, I need you to understand one thing Intrinsically, 164 00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:19.240 when the revolution happens, all of these organized religions are 165 00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:21.559 going with it. You can rebuild your own thing later 166 00:09:21.639 --> 00:09:24.440 if you won't. However, that looks they're all going with it, 167 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:27.919 so I don't know what to tell you. You can't. 168 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:31.919 You can have a club, but like, we're not doing 169 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:38.320 the revolution and then leaving the patriarchal two thousand year 170 00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:44.919 old institution that has had pedophilia issues for over a 171 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:48.840 thousand years stick around. That's not happening. So I don't 172 00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:51.279 know what to tell you. I don't know what to 173 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:54.159 tell you. I don't know how you deal with that. 174 00:09:55.159 --> 00:09:57.799 But you know, yeah, there's no girl bossing. That's a 175 00:09:57.840 --> 00:10:02.600 glass ceiling you can't break asolutely, absolutely, mostly because if 176 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:04.240 you did, if they were like, oh, we're going to 177 00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:08.840 do this, like a massive chunk of the Catholic population 178 00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:10.759 would split off, for at least a large chunk of 179 00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:13.679 it would, and then you just have another uh you know, 180 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:14.639 East West. 181 00:10:14.360 --> 00:10:18.879 Schizo liked percent of the guys. 182 00:10:19.240 --> 00:10:23.919 Yeah, anyway, let's talk about the let's talk about it. Yeah, 183 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:59.759 because they're fun, all right, Hello, and welcome back to 184 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:06.720 Not So Different, a podcast about ornate religious ceremonies that 185 00:11:06.759 --> 00:11:10.919 we're going to continue after the revolution. My name is Luke, 186 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:15.320 and after the revolution my job will be seneschal for 187 00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:19.159 the Pope, and that's doctor Eleanor. And after the revolution 188 00:11:19.320 --> 00:11:23.960 she will of course be the first Lady Pope. Welcome back, folks. 189 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:32.399 We're going to talk about conclaves of the you know, antique, medieval, 190 00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:34.879 and even early modern variety. We're just going to talk 191 00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:38.399 about conclaves because they've been in there recently. If you 192 00:11:38.759 --> 00:11:40.799 just woke up from a coma and we're like, the 193 00:11:40.840 --> 00:11:42.440 first thing I got to do is listen to the 194 00:11:42.440 --> 00:11:45.039 newest episode of my favorite podcast, which if you did, 195 00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:47.279 thank you very much. We're glad you're feeling better. 196 00:11:47.919 --> 00:11:48.600 Welcome back. 197 00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:53.399 Yeah, but yeah, there's a lots going on, a lot 198 00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:55.639 to keep up. Man. Can you imagine having been in 199 00:11:55.679 --> 00:11:57.960 a coma for like three years and all the stuff 200 00:11:58.000 --> 00:11:59.960 you have to catch up on, like good god man 201 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:03.360 and be like wait what no, oh, god no, because 202 00:12:03.399 --> 00:12:07.080 everything changes every other day now. Anyway, before we get there, 203 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:08.639 we had a couple of questions. First, we got one 204 00:12:08.679 --> 00:12:12.120 from Vivi or Vivi, who says, how did they decide 205 00:12:12.120 --> 00:12:14.679 who in the monastery got the various jobs in the scriptorum? 206 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:18.000 Did the illuminators usually show up as already respected artist 207 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:19.399 or was it something more internal? 208 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:21.759 The answer is a little bit of column A, a 209 00:12:21.799 --> 00:12:25.159 little bit of column B here, because sometimes you just 210 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:29.840 train them up yourself. You know, if you're gonna be 211 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:33.039 working with any of the oblates, that you get to 212 00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:37.600 teach them skills throughout their time in the monastery. So 213 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:39.799 they're going to start out, you know, learning how to 214 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:43.440 read and write things. And if anybody has particular promise, 215 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:47.440 then you train them up and do well. But if 216 00:12:47.639 --> 00:12:53.320 you have a particularly celebrated scriptorium and you know that 217 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:56.279 there's a very fine illuminator somewhere else in your order, 218 00:12:56.440 --> 00:13:00.200 they might get moved over specifically in order to serve there. 219 00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:05.000 So yeah, monks in the scriptoria in many ways are 220 00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:09.639 like players in football teams here or in Australia, right 221 00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:13.080 like where you couldn't have nurtured talent who rises up 222 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:16.200 through the ranks who you have grown in the monastery, 223 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:20.320 or you can trade for them, right like you can 224 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:23.159 you can go after I don't know, the Lebron James 225 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:24.120 of illuminators. 226 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:26.159 That's the thing that's available to you, right. 227 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:28.840 I wonder who that. I wonder who that would have been, 228 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:31.320 who they would have considered that to be, because like 229 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:33.480 there's got to be one that everybody's just like that's 230 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:34.799 the bet, Like that kid. 231 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:38.279 I tell you what the talent oh yeah, Like I'm 232 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:41.919 probably like front of the show. Doctor Asaro Oberg strut 233 00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:45.360 All is like yelling at her phone right now, being like, yeah, 234 00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:47.279 it's this person, and I'll be like, yeah, well. 235 00:13:47.559 --> 00:13:50.600 You should tell doctor ellinor who that person is at will. 236 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:53.799 I certainly don't know. 237 00:13:55.399 --> 00:13:57.080 I don't know. I don't know the names of too 238 00:13:57.120 --> 00:13:59.039 many of the illuminators. 239 00:13:59.080 --> 00:14:02.000 I'm just like in my affair, we don't always you know, 240 00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:04.240 like a lot of time, we'll just call them the 241 00:14:04.279 --> 00:14:06.960 master of whatever the fuck thing, you know. 242 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:09.840 So in my head, I'm just imagining like Lebron James 243 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:13.639 dunking and basketball. But it's got like some like medieval 244 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:17.279 white guys, like old medieval white guy's head plastered on it. 245 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:21.279 He just he's just fucking slamming that down there. I 246 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:21.720 love that. 247 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:26.000 Yeah, somebody somebody draws that in the style of uh, 248 00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:28.840 you know, in Inky Bailey or something. 249 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:30.480 Please thank you, Tures. 250 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:36.159 Yeah, Viv, thank you very much for the question. Next, 251 00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:38.639 we got one from Benjamin Cisco, who says trying to 252 00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:42.639 read Imagining Communities by Benedicte Anderson. In it, he's talking 253 00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:46.080 about medieval conceptions of time and how it's not linear. 254 00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:48.919 Can you guys, explain what the fuck he's talking about. 255 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:51.279 I fucking know what he's talking about, because these are 256 00:14:51.320 --> 00:14:56.320 the most literal linear time motherfuckers. I So the only 257 00:14:56.360 --> 00:14:58.399 thing I could kind of come up with with this 258 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:01.639 is because you know, I'm always bagging on, like as 259 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:07.440 someone who works on eschatology, about how linear their time 260 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:10.000 view and worldview is, because it's like, you're moving towards 261 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:12.759 the apocalypse and the end of the world right now. 262 00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:17.080 There are things that exist outside of time, right, Like Paradise, 263 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:19.639 like and Heaven and Hell exists outside of time in 264 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:23.480 that they are eternal, and the soul exists outside of time. 265 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:26.440 But time itself is. 266 00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:28.759 Linear, and we're moving towards the end of the world, 267 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:32.320 right so at which point we'll see, you know, the 268 00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:36.799 destruction of the phenomenal universe. Maybe he means like the 269 00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:39.639 way that they like set up their day in terms 270 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:43.120 of kind of like thinking about the cyclical nature of like. 271 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:46.480 That's that's the only thing I can think of, because 272 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:50.840 like they they were all obsessed with like linear time, 273 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:53.600 and like now like we have like now there are 274 00:15:53.639 --> 00:15:58.480 like fairly common scientific theories about how, like, you know, 275 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:01.919 the universe could restart after like the heat death, like 276 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:03.960 you know, like stuff like that, it could start over 277 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:06.720 again and and like you could do that. So I mean, 278 00:16:06.759 --> 00:16:09.159 like now you could say we have some people have 279 00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:12.879 a much uh more circular view of time than we 280 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:15.080 used to. And I mean it's definitely something that we 281 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:18.360 can posit and consider as a real theory. But like 282 00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:21.360 the only thing I could think of for medieval people 283 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:25.679 would be like maybe because of like how routinized farming 284 00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:29.120 and stuff like that was, and like the the changing 285 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:32.120 of the seasons and they didn't travel much. I don't, 286 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:32.600 I'm not. 287 00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:33.960 I guess, yeah, that's all. 288 00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:38.200 I've never read imagined Communities. I I know it's about 289 00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:42.120 it's a foundational text on nationalism. There's definitely a whole 290 00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:46.200 in my theory catalog, but like, well. 291 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:47.639 I mean I will say that, yeah, I don't know what. 292 00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:52.759 One of the criticisms of imagined communities, uh in general 293 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:56.000 from medievalist is you got you got that part wrong? 294 00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:59.039 Uh you know, like I mean, that's that'stuff about like 295 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:02.039 the nineteenth century, not necessarily like the time thing. Although 296 00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:04.240 like I must have glazed over this when like I 297 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:08.079 mean I think I skim read this in my theory days, 298 00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:14.599 but he is incorrect in that, like, certainly nationalist sentiment 299 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:18.920 exists within the medieval period. Let us not forget you know, 300 00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:24.880 monks like Czech monk ghosts, teeth, like chasing out Germans 301 00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:28.880 and things like that. You know, like at least anti 302 00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:34.279 foreigners sentiment exists. But there is certainly a sense of something, 303 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:38.319 but it tends to come up more particularly in groups 304 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:42.920 that see themselves as kind of like a persecuted minority. Right, 305 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:45.519 So you'll see this, for example with like Latvian's who 306 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:48.319 are like, we are just trying to continue to have 307 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:51.759 our weird religion and worship the sky God and like 308 00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:55.599 that's what it means to be Latvian, right, And yeah, 309 00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:57.119 but that's different, right. 310 00:17:57.200 --> 00:17:58.880 Yeah, I think, I mean, I think you could, like 311 00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:02.119 I think, you know, you can easily argue that the 312 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:06.319 one hundred Years War is a dual war of national 313 00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:11.200 liberation for two people, but they don't understand what that 314 00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:14.799 means yet, and they are like kind of forming nationalists 315 00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:18.200 sentiment on the fly, and you know, like, yeah, you 316 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:20.279 start to get like like stuff like that, and I 317 00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:24.200 mean like, yeah, I don't know, uh, yeah, I have 318 00:18:24.279 --> 00:18:25.240 no idea. 319 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:26.880 I still think it's worth reading. I still think it's 320 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:29.200 worth reading, but it's just a thing to keep in mind. 321 00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:30.880 A lot of the time is that in a lot 322 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:34.039 of these kind of like foundational texts, they get the 323 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:34.920 medieval part wrong. 324 00:18:36.279 --> 00:18:39.480 Now, I think, yeah, the understanding of the Middle Ages 325 00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:44.960 has changed radically in even like the last like twenty 326 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:50.799 to thirty years. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, the historical consensus 327 00:18:50.839 --> 00:18:52.759 of it. So like, yeah, it's like, you know, and 328 00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:56.440 we just understand more and we figure out more, you know, 329 00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:00.400 we stop, you know, unfortunately some stuff persists, but some 330 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:01.880 stuff will get right you know. 331 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:04.599 Yeah, yeah, exactly, And so I mean that doesn't mean 332 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:05.839 that it is not worthwhile. 333 00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:08.039 So I mean, sorry, mate, Like an. 334 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:10.359 Answer to the question, I don't fucking know what he's 335 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:14.559 talking about, Uh sorry, because I think he's wrong. 336 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:18.319 I mean, but the best that I can get. 337 00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:20.279 Out of this is that he's kind of talking about 338 00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:22.160 like the cyclical nature of church time. 339 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:27.039 M yeah, yeah, yeah. If I mean, like if it's 340 00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:29.720 like the days, like the hours of the day or whatever, 341 00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:32.440 and how they like are ruled by that, I guess 342 00:19:32.599 --> 00:19:34.759 you could say so, but I don't understand how we're 343 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:37.839 any less ruled by like the cyclical hours of the 344 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:41.680 day as they change. It's just a different type of hours. 345 00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:47.119 It's enumerated differently. But anyway, Yeah, Eleanor's red imagined communities 346 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:49.400 or at least skimmed it. Uh, definitely check it out 347 00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:54.319 if that's something you're interested in. Just you know, sometimes 348 00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:57.119 they don't get the middle ages stuff quite right. Uh. 349 00:19:57.240 --> 00:19:57.440 You know. 350 00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:01.160 Uh, Mark's famously uh you know with the feudal motive 351 00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:06.559 production calling at that, but I mean, you know that 352 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:09.039 was you know, we could we could try and call 353 00:20:09.079 --> 00:20:11.319 it the manorial mode of production, but who cares? Feudal 354 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:12.599 motive production sounds fun? 355 00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:15.599 Like we can't we can't expect everyone to do everything. 356 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:17.880 Yeah. No, and and I mean yeah, like at the time, 357 00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:21.720 like that was the broad based understanding of it, Like 358 00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:25.640 it was incorrect, but you know, they they were going 359 00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:28.559 with what they knew anyway. Uh, Benjamin, thank you very 360 00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:30.839 much for the question. If you want to ask us 361 00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:34.000 questions like these that we uh sometimes just don't know 362 00:20:34.039 --> 00:20:35.519 the answer to, but we will give it our. 363 00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:37.799 Best shout out to talk about it. 364 00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:40.000 Yeah, we will definitely talk about it. And I certainly 365 00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:41.920 don't know the answer to most of it, but yeah, 366 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:44.240 if you want to ask us questions like these, please 367 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:48.559 subscribe to our Patreon, Patreon dot com slash w nsd pod. 368 00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:53.000 Uh you get to ask us questions. You get accessed 369 00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:56.160 to our discord. Uh. You can listen to all of 370 00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:58.880 our bonus episodes. We do two a month. You can 371 00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:01.759 check out the stuff ad for It's five dollars a month. 372 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:03.960 It's really cool. You can check it out. We're doing 373 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:08.000 a book club series on the Cameron Cameron right now. Uh, 374 00:21:08.200 --> 00:21:10.400 just finished up part three. Uh, so youase you check 375 00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:14.640 that out. It's a lot of fun. Uh, anti clericalism, uh, 376 00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:21.599 sex well, a lot of people pretending to be paraplegic 377 00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:27.519 or ill. I don't know, they have fun way back then. 378 00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:29.759 You know, I'm not I'm not going to judge them. 379 00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:31.599 I'm not going to judge them for that. I mean 380 00:21:31.640 --> 00:21:32.200 I will, but. 381 00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:32.720 Whatever, I mean. 382 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:37.240 Yeah, but yeah, you should check it out. It's a 383 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:42.319 lot of fun. Anyway, onto the main show. So on 384 00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:45.640 April twenty first, twenty twenty five, Pope Francis shuffled off 385 00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:48.759 this mortal coil after a long battle with various illnesses. 386 00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:51.759 This means that a papal conclave will need to be 387 00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:54.720 called to elect the next Vicar of Christ, a practice 388 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:58.680 for which the Church has copious rules and procedures. Since 389 00:21:58.759 --> 00:22:02.720 the nineteen ninety six changes to the Apostolic Constitution made 390 00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:07.079 by Pope John Paul and a few adjustments by Benedict 391 00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:12.000 the sixteenth, the papal conclave process has been standardized. The 392 00:22:12.039 --> 00:22:14.680 members of the College of Cardinals who will form the 393 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:17.960 conclave will gather in the Sistine Chapel in the Vatican 394 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:21.920 City to be sequestered away and undergo the rigorous voting process. 395 00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:24.720 Though previously capped at one hundred and twenty, the twenty 396 00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:28.279 twenty five conclave will have one hundred and thirty five 397 00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:32.359 cardinals in attendance, the largest ever, and they will enter 398 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:35.440 the conclave and be sequestered with only one or two 399 00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:38.799 non voters present. To avoid meddling, they are housed in 400 00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:43.079 a purpose built structure called the Domos Sancte Marthe for 401 00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:47.079