Speaker 1: Dean and Charlotte were sitting on their couch one evening
Speaker 1: watching television. On the screen, little fires everywhere. Firefighters battling
Speaker 1: a house fire, flames tearing through the roof, people standing
Speaker 1: outside watching the blaze in horror. Then Dean's phone rang.
Speaker 2: We were on the episode watching the specific part of
Speaker 2: this episode where the house is up in flames and
Speaker 2: the kids had something to do with it. And we
Speaker 2: get a phone call from his daughter.
Speaker 3: Minutes after watching this part of the episode, minutes after that.
Speaker 2: Crying because the house is on fire.
Speaker 1: The house wasn't the one on the television. It was
Speaker 1: the rental house where Dean's ex-wife Laura was living with
Speaker 1: their children. Hundreds of miles away in Washington State, Tom
Speaker 1: and Joanne were on their own couch when a message
Speaker 1: came through.
Speaker 4: One of the kids that hung out at our house
Speaker 4: over the years had become a fireman. And he texted
Speaker 4: our son and he said, oh my God, your house
Speaker 4: is on fire. And we're like, what?
Speaker 5: About 10 o'clock our time. My sister texted me saying
Speaker 5: your house is on fire.
Speaker 1: The house Tom and Joanne owned in Wisconsin. the same
Speaker 1: house Laura had been renting. What none of them knew
Speaker 1: yet was that the fire would only be the beginning
Speaker 1: of a story that involved unpaid rent, insurance payouts, fundraisers,
Speaker 1: and a woman who had risen to become one of
Speaker 1: Liana Shanti's most trusted followers. I'm your host, Casey, and
Speaker 1: this is Episode 6 of The Insta Scammer. Dean and
Speaker 1: Charlotte met in 2017. Dean says that from the very
Speaker 1: first date, he put everything on the table. His divorce,
Speaker 1: the custody situation, the ongoing conflict, a restraining order. He
Speaker 1: describes leaving the decision entirely with Charlotte. But to understand
Speaker 1: how this family became part of the story we're telling,
Speaker 1: we have to go back further. Back to when Dean
Speaker 1: and his ex-wife Laura first met.
Speaker 3: We both went to the same technical college. She stood
Speaker 3: out to be very different just because of the way
Speaker 3: she dressed. She was very physically conservative. You know, she
Speaker 3: wore long skirts and she, for one, it was a
Speaker 3: kind of a male-dominated field of study. It was tool
Speaker 3: and die design. And she was the minority. There was
Speaker 3: maybe 25, 30 people in our class and maybe four
Speaker 3: or five of them were women. So she was homeschooled. She,
Speaker 3: she did very well. She excelled in academics and she
Speaker 3: graduated two years early. I've maybe met her that first semester,
Speaker 3: but didn't really start talking to her more in depth
Speaker 3: until our final year. And then I find out that
Speaker 3: she's very involved in her, in her church at the time.
Speaker 3: She started sharing the Bible, which was very new to me.
Speaker 3: I was brought up actually not knowing anything about really
Speaker 3: the Bible or the church or Jesus or anything. I
Speaker 3: want to say the last month or so of school
Speaker 3: before graduation that she shared Jesus with me to the
Speaker 3: point where I accepted it into my life. I became
Speaker 3: a born again Christian and wouldn't have gotten there, you know,
Speaker 3: without her, without her help and her explaining all this
Speaker 3: to me. Well, anyway, I got to meet her family.
Speaker 3: I want to say that same night that I got saved,
Speaker 3: which is back in 97. And she was the oldest
Speaker 3: of 11 kids. All of her siblings were homeschooled. And
Speaker 3: as I got to know them, I fell in love
Speaker 3: with their family. I fell in love with how close
Speaker 3: they were to each other. They all kind of looked
Speaker 3: up to me because I was older than all of them.
Speaker 3: And they were all very into sports. I was very
Speaker 3: into sports. So we did a lot of basketball, a
Speaker 3: lot of football together. And man, I just thought it
Speaker 3: was great how they, you know, they all sat at
Speaker 3: the kitchen table together and ate. And, you know, it
Speaker 3: was just a very tight knit family. And I'm like,
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, and now I'm surrounded by all these
Speaker 3: loving people. I loved it, and that was so new
Speaker 3: to me, and that was a big attraction.
Speaker 1: Dean describes the first 10 to 11.
Speaker 4: Years of their marriage as a good period.
Speaker 1: Four children, what he calls building their own little tribe. Then,
Speaker 1: he says, something changed.
Speaker 3: We met a lot of new families through this new
Speaker 3: church and became more active. They broke into smaller groups
Speaker 3: during the week, so we had kind of a house
Speaker 3: church that we would attend on a weekly basis where
Speaker 3: we can really share and not worry about judgment. It
Speaker 3: was nice, and that was also the time period where
Speaker 3: this came into our lives and then just things kind
Speaker 3: of hit the fan.
Speaker 1: Bean says the man who entered their lives came through
Speaker 1: their children's basketball program at the YMCA. He was approximately
Speaker 1: 10 years younger than Laura at the time. Over the
Speaker 1: weeks that followed, Dean says Laura began raising the idea
Speaker 1: of moving him into the family home.
Speaker 3: This goes back to when my ex-wife and I started
Speaker 3: having marriage problems. Back when we were still together, we
Speaker 3: had introduced a young man into our home. We met
Speaker 3: him through the YMCA, through our kids' basketball program. He was,
Speaker 3: I want to say, like around 10 years younger than
Speaker 3: My ex-wife at the time, he was coaching some of
Speaker 3: our kids, our boys in basketball and this thing was.
Speaker 3: Then over the course of a few weeks, we got
Speaker 3: to know him. My ex would talk with him and
Speaker 3: they started building a relationship. One day she comes to
Speaker 3: me and she says, I think, or what do you
Speaker 3: think about letting him live with us? He has a
Speaker 3: rocky relationship with his parents. Currently he was staying with
Speaker 3: his dad. Why don't we at least have more for lunch?
Speaker 3: And I said, okay, well, it seems harmless. Yeah, he
Speaker 3: seems like a nice guy. So we had him over
Speaker 3: for lunch. Things weren't good. Shortly after, she's like, what
Speaker 3: do you think about having him move in with us?
Speaker 3: You know, just to give him a place to stay
Speaker 3: until he gets on his feet and establishes, you know,
Speaker 3: more of a career or whatever. And I'm like, oh,
Speaker 3: I don't think so. You know, I worked full time.
Speaker 3: I'm out of the house the majority of the day.
Speaker 3: She was a stay-at-home mom. She ran a small business
Speaker 3: out of the house. So she was, and she was
Speaker 3: homeschooling at the time. So I don't like how that feels. Well,
Speaker 3: then she brought it You know, she said something like, well,
Speaker 3: I feel like God is putting him in our lives.
Speaker 3: And then I'm like, well, how can I come against God?
Speaker 3: You know, I'd feel horrible if, if I were the
Speaker 3: one who's standing in the way of something God is
Speaker 3: trying to do. So I'm like, okay, well, let's give
Speaker 3: it a shot for a couple of weeks or a
Speaker 3: month and see how it goes. Well, of course we
Speaker 3: bring him in, we give him his own room. He's
Speaker 3: helping out around the house. He's cooking. He's a joy.
Speaker 3: You know, he's, we got along great at the time,
Speaker 3: you know, we're playing football together.
Speaker 1: Dean says it was over the months that followed that
Speaker 1: the picture became clear to him.
Speaker 3: His job at the time was a personal trainer. Well,
Speaker 3: he started personally training her. And over time, she did
Speaker 3: really well. She lost a ton of weight. And then
Speaker 3: I think that's when they really started to bond. And
Speaker 3: they created more of an emotional bond. And then I
Speaker 3: want to say he lived with us for about I
Speaker 3: don't know, eight to nine months when I started realizing, okay,
Speaker 3: now I think they have more of a physical attraction
Speaker 3: and who knows what they're doing now. And I started
Speaker 3: getting very suspicious. I kind of witnessed a couple of
Speaker 3: things where I was getting ready to go to work
Speaker 3: in the morning. I kind of peeked my head into
Speaker 3: her office and I see him behind her massaging her shoulders.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, okay, this has gone too far. They
Speaker 3: didn't know that I saw them doing that. And I
Speaker 3: just kind of According to Dean, that admission....
Speaker 1: And everything that came with it was the moment their
Speaker 1: marriage effectively ended. Dean says he wanted to try and
Speaker 1: work through it, but he says by that point, Laura
Speaker 1: had already made her decision.
Speaker 3: Like I said, my kids were all homeschooled at the time,
Speaker 3: so she would send the boys down to the park,
Speaker 3: which we were on the same block at the time,
Speaker 3: and the daughter, who was a toddler, she was sleeping
Speaker 3: in her bed upstairs, and they were fooling around in
Speaker 3: the house. Well, not good. I kicked them out of
Speaker 3: the house. That's when things kind of took a major turn.
Speaker 3: She ended up admitting to me that, yes, in fact,
Speaker 3: it was a sexual relationship. I'm taken aback by it.
Speaker 3: Obviously not happy about it. But I told her, I
Speaker 3: don't want a divorce. I think we can work through this. Well,
Speaker 3: then she throws another log on the fire and says,
Speaker 3: it's possible that I might be pregnant with this child.
Speaker 3: And that's when I almost lost it. But I still
Speaker 3: kept my cool and I'm like, Still, hopefully you're not,
Speaker 3: but let's try to work through this. I think she
Speaker 3: had already checked out and we both took like a
Speaker 3: counseling class separately, but there's the same course. And I
Speaker 3: don't know if that was near the time or around
Speaker 3: the time when she somehow got connected with Liana, but
Speaker 3: that's when I noticed, you know, she filed for legal separation,
Speaker 3: moved everything out of the house, kind of left me
Speaker 3: hanging high and dry. They ended up moving in together.
Speaker 3: Dean describes the separation that followed as contested.
Speaker 1: Then, came a plan he says he hadn't anticipated.
Speaker 3: Months later, she proposes an idea that she wanted to
Speaker 3: move her and the kids and their business to California.
Speaker 3: And I'm pretty grounded here with my career and my
Speaker 3: family and everything. And at this time, she'd already been
Speaker 3: disassociated with her family, so it wasn't a big deal
Speaker 3: for her to leave her family, but they saw more
Speaker 3: of a better opportunity for their business in California.
Speaker 1: Dean says the moment things came to a head arrived
Speaker 1: when he was picking up the children.
Speaker 3: There was one afternoon where I was picking up the kids,
Speaker 3: and she hands me this certified letter, and I... take
Speaker 3: it out to my car. I open it, I read it,
Speaker 3: and it says, you know, it's like a legal document
Speaker 3: saying that she plans on taking the kids out of
Speaker 3: state and moving to California. And I remember going back
Speaker 3: into her house and saying, I'm not going to let
Speaker 3: you do this. You can't do this. And then I
Speaker 3: turned around, I slammed the door behind me, and as
Speaker 3: I walked past her on the pilot in the driveway,
Speaker 3: I threw my elbow into like the bottom corner of
Speaker 3: the hatch of her vehicle, and I just nipped the
Speaker 3: lower corner of that back windshield and it shattered. It's
Speaker 3: just like popped. And I'm like, what the heck? Like,
Speaker 3: I know I didn't hit it that hard, but it
Speaker 3: was a bad decision on my part. And I owned
Speaker 3: up to it. I went back in and I told
Speaker 3: her and she insisted on calling the police. Police came,
Speaker 3: you know, I was, I was calm throughout the whole thing.
Speaker 3: I told the cop exactly what happened. He went in
Speaker 3: and took her story and he came back out and said, that's,
Speaker 3: you know, she pretty much verified everything you said. She
Speaker 3: wasn't afraid for her safety or the kid's safety. And
Speaker 3: then I believe the police report had something in there too,
Speaker 3: that one of the kids was a little emotionally distraught
Speaker 3: after that. I went home. They know the cops said,
Speaker 3: we're not going to arrest you. We're just going to
Speaker 3: have you pay restitution. They gave me the end of
Speaker 3: the paperwork for the court hearing and everything. And I
Speaker 3: went home a couple hours later. I got my boys,
Speaker 3: but the daughter wanted to stay behind. Apparently she had
Speaker 3: been a little shaken up from that.
Speaker 1: What followed, Dean describes, was a restraining order. And then,
Speaker 1: a few days later, a second petition seeking to restrict
Speaker 1: his contact with his own children. Dean says the family
Speaker 1: court granted the order between him and Laura, but rejected
Speaker 1: the petition against him and his children.
Speaker 3: So I was still able to see my kids, which
Speaker 3: was great. But like I said, that was definitely a
Speaker 3: turning point. They spent nights, you know, like on my
Speaker 3: scheduled days. I mean, I feel like I was... a
Speaker 3: very good father to them, and we had a great relationship.
Speaker 3: Things definitely started to turn. I feel like once my
Speaker 3: ex started realizing that she was losing her grip, losing
Speaker 3: some of her control over me, that's when she started
Speaker 3: acting out, and that's when things made a turn for
Speaker 3: the worse. I mean, we have so many examples that
Speaker 3: we could share, but looking back, it was gradual. Then
Speaker 3: rolling into the latter years, the relationships between the kids
Speaker 3: and I definitely started to dwindle. And you can tell
Speaker 3: that they would disassociate from, you know, their, like my
Speaker 3: ex-wife's family. There were a couple of her brothers that
Speaker 3: they would all still keep in contact with. And then
Speaker 3: her grandparents, they kept in contact with, but then even
Speaker 3: over time, they all just kind of completely cut off ties.
Speaker 3: They took a very hard stance against the COVID vaccine
Speaker 3: and they pretty much cut themselves off from anybody who
Speaker 3: took the vaccine.
Speaker 2: It was crazy because they used it as an excuse
Speaker 2: to cut off their family, the little bit of family
Speaker 2: that she had left. She cut them off because they
Speaker 2: got vaccinated. But at the same time, she was sitting
Speaker 2: in like a gymnasium full of people watching her son's
Speaker 2: sporting events. And I'm like, this doesn't make sense. You know,
Speaker 2: like you don't see your family very often, but you're
Speaker 2: in a gymnasium full of people pretty often.
Speaker 1: Dean describes the divorce as one of the most difficult
Speaker 1: periods of his life and says the legal disputes didn't
Speaker 1: end when the marriage did. But a few years later,
Speaker 1: he met Charlotte. And from the very first conversation, he
Speaker 1: told her everything.
Speaker 2: We started dating 2017. When we first started dating, he
Speaker 2: gave me an overview of his life with his ex.
Speaker 2: I was asking leading questions, wanting to know, like, why
Speaker 2: did they get divorced, this and that. And while we
Speaker 2: were dating, some things were concerning about like some of
Speaker 2: the things that his ex-wife would require of him. And
Speaker 2: I've done my research at this point. I've created a
Speaker 2: chronology of events because I was like, I need to
Speaker 2: know the truth here.
Speaker 1: Charlotte is clear that this is her interpretation, drawn from
Speaker 1: her own research and from comparing notes with other families
Speaker 1: going through the same situation. She explains how she went
Speaker 1: about building that case for herself.
Speaker 2: Like, I have what these women are blasting about my
Speaker 2: husband online, and I have what my husband has told me.
Speaker 2: I need to reconcile both of them. And so that
Speaker 2: is when I created this chronology. It's got pictures. It's
Speaker 2: got police reports. It's got, like, court documents. And after
Speaker 2: creating that, I'm like, oh my gosh, my husband is
Speaker 2: so truthful. Like, he has told me, like, the truth
Speaker 2: since day one. You know, like... Day one, on our
Speaker 2: first date, he said, here it is. This is my life.
Speaker 2: Take it or leave it. And he was so honest
Speaker 2: about it. And it's frustrating because these women are blasting
Speaker 2: him online and so out of context. You know, there's
Speaker 2: so much context missing out of their stories. After we
Speaker 2: got married, we found out through a family member who
Speaker 2: was like, what is this? She shared the post with
Speaker 2: us where his ex changed her name. So she came
Speaker 2: out and said how Liana Shanti is her spiritual mother.
Speaker 2: She renamed her Kahira Nolani. I think her name means
Speaker 2: like something princess, something warrior. So after she posted that,
Speaker 2: then I was like, who is this Liana? And does
Speaker 2: she have anything to do with this odd behavior we're experiencing?
Speaker 2: So then I started going to Liana's Instagram account and
Speaker 2: just like, combing through it to see if there was
Speaker 2: anything like that would make sense of what she's teaching
Speaker 2: versus how his ex is acting. I find out all
Speaker 2: his kids are following her and she's talking about how
Speaker 2: to have your best orgasm. And I was like, is
Speaker 2: this appropriate? I don't think this is appropriate for children.
Speaker 2: When I first started looking into her, it was just
Speaker 2: a weird feeling. And so I was like, you know what?
Speaker 2: I got to be prayed up before I go on
Speaker 2: to this girl's Instagram account. I need for protection over
Speaker 2: my mind and my heart. I went on one day
Speaker 2: and I typed in her name and I found Cult
Speaker 2: Recovery and I was like, what is this? I was like,
Speaker 2: you mean I'm not alone? You mean we're not the
Speaker 2: only ones going through this? It confirmed that I'm not
Speaker 2: crazy because you start to think like you're crazy. To
Speaker 2: talk to other families or other people about it who
Speaker 2: are not experiencing it themselves, it's like you sound like
Speaker 2: a crazy person. So when I found the cult recovery group,
Speaker 2: I was just like, oh my gosh, people who know
Speaker 2: exactly what we are going through. And to come to
Speaker 2: my husband and be like, babe, you're not the only one.
Speaker 2: You are not going through this alone. There's other fathers
Speaker 2: who are going through the same exact thing. It's the
Speaker 2: same exact storyline.
Speaker 1: Laura would later legally change her name to Kahira Noelani,
Speaker 1: a change documented in court records. Dean and Charlotte say
Speaker 1: looking back at Laura's behaviour over the years and the
Speaker 1: gradual estrangement of the children from their extended family, they
Speaker 1: believe the connection to Liana Shanti's community may have begun
Speaker 1: as far back as 2013, possibly earlier.
Speaker 4: According to the.
Speaker 1: Interviews conducted for this series, for many of the families
Speaker 1: who found the Liana Shanti.
Speaker 4: Court Recovery Group, that discovery was a turning point.
Speaker 1: Up until that moment, most say they had believed they
Speaker 1: were dealing with something isolated. A difficult divorce, a child
Speaker 1: acting differently, a partner or family member suddenly beyond recognition.
Speaker 1: But inside that group, they say the stories began to
Speaker 1: sound eerily familiar. Different states, different countries, different families and
Speaker 1: different relationships, but all the same language, the same accusations.
Speaker 1: What seemed to be the same sudden instructions to cut
Speaker 1: off parents, spouses, friends and support systems. As those affected
Speaker 1: began comparing timelines, messages and court documents, a pattern began
Speaker 1: to emerge. And it was through that same network that
Speaker 1: I was first approached about telling these stories. Many of
Speaker 1: them had spent years trying to explain what had happened
Speaker 1: to them, often feeling dismissed, misunderstood or simply unheard. This
Speaker 1: podcast became one way to document those experiences and bring
Speaker 1: the larger pattern into the open. For Dean and Charlotte,
Speaker 1: that network also revealed how wide the ripple effect of
Speaker 1: this community had become. Because Laura's story didn't just affect
Speaker 1: Dean and his children, it reached all the way to
Speaker 1: a couple in Washington State who had no idea what
Speaker 1: they were getting into. Back in the opening moments of
Speaker 1: this episode, you heard about the night a house caught
Speaker 1: fire in Wisconsin. That house didn't belong to Laura. It
Speaker 1: belonged to Tom and Joanne. At the time, Tom and
Speaker 1: Joanne say they were living hundreds of miles away in
Speaker 1: Washington State. They had rented their Wisconsin home to Laura, intending,
Speaker 1: they say, to help out someone they knew and trusted.
Speaker 1: What neither of them knew at the time, they say,
Speaker 1: was that Laura had already begun building a new identity
Speaker 1: inside Liana Shanti's world. The name she was using at
Speaker 1: the time they met was Kihira, but their story starts
Speaker 1: long before they ever heard that name. Tom and Joanne
Speaker 1: met in the early 1990s while both working at Microsoft
Speaker 1: in Washington State.
Speaker 6: We met in the mailroom.
Speaker 4: We were really good friends. A group of us would
Speaker 4: go to lunch together and stuff. And then one night
Speaker 4: they had moved out of our building. And I emailed
Speaker 4: them all and said, hey, we're all going to this
Speaker 4: bar on a Friday night called Waldo's. And Tom lived
Speaker 4: in a house of guys. And one of the guys
Speaker 4: had some friends from Idaho visiting. And he was talking
Speaker 4: with both of us. And he said, so how long
Speaker 4: have you guys been dating? And we went, well, we're
Speaker 4: not dating.
Speaker 6: Maybe it's not a bad idea.
Speaker 4: And we went, huh, that's not a bad idea.
Speaker 5: We left together, and I asked Joanne to give me
Speaker 5: a ride to my car.
Speaker 7: And we hopped in her car, and we were marooned
Speaker 7: for a.
Speaker 6: Little while, because one of her co-workers was making out
Speaker 6: with somebody, and we were spying.
Speaker 4: Well, we couldn't, like, turn the car off.
Speaker 5: When she finally drove me to my car, it was
Speaker 5: about four spots away.
Speaker 4: Yeah. And I was like, oh, for Pete's sake, you stinker.
Speaker 4: But later.
Speaker 6: Yeah. I proposed, and we had a big meal planned
Speaker 6: and everything in the apartment.
Speaker 4: So he said... We need to talk. Why are you
Speaker 4: choosing now? We're about to go meet all of our
Speaker 4: friends at Vito's. It's going to be fun.
Speaker 6: There are easier ways to get engaged, I've learned.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So I do like the walk of like, oh my God,
Speaker 4: he's just going to drop me off at my apartment.
Speaker 4: And then they're all going to go to Vito's and
Speaker 4: have fun. And he's going to say, this is it.
Speaker 4: And then he proposed. And I was like, what? Wait
Speaker 4: a minute. So I was totally discombobulated. And, you know,
Speaker 4: and then I said, yes. And then he pulls up
Speaker 4: the shades and all of our friends are standing down below,
Speaker 4: you know, from our window and they're all going.
Speaker 1: Over the next decade, Tom and Joanne built a family
Speaker 1: life in Port Washington, Wisconsin, in a massive historic house.
Speaker 1: More than 4,000 square feet of hand-carved limestone, they spent
Speaker 1: 12 years restoring themselves. Their home had an open-door reputation
Speaker 1: in the neighborhood. Joanne taught yoga in the community, and
Speaker 1: Tom and Joanne together raised four children, two sets of twins,
Speaker 1: in that house. It was at their kids' basketball game
Speaker 1: that they first came across Laura.
Speaker 4: Our younger son was on the same basketball team as
Speaker 4: our son.
Speaker 5: It's a small town, and we didn't really know her.
Speaker 5: So when new people would arrive, they would.
Speaker 3: Be new people.
Speaker 6: You could see them and kind of wonder who they
Speaker 6: were and wait for a chance to get introduced.
Speaker 4: She homeschooled her kids, so they weren't in the school.
Speaker 4: And so the only way you would see her or
Speaker 4: meet her was the intramural sporting event. And we were
Speaker 4: sitting in the bleachers and she was sitting by herself
Speaker 4: and she had this jar of green stuff sitting next
Speaker 4: to her.
Speaker 5: I asked her why she had a candle.
Speaker 6: It looked like a candle.
Speaker 4: We invited her to sit next to us, and she
Speaker 4: told us all about her green juice, is what she had,
Speaker 4: and that she was this very successful health coach. And
Speaker 4: she said, oh, and if you're interested, you should go
Speaker 4: watch the Netflix show Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead. And
Speaker 4: it was interesting to watch the documentary. So it kind
Speaker 4: of really legitimized her green juicing. In fact, we had
Speaker 4: put on a a few pounds ourselves. And we had
Speaker 4: just been going, because this was January or something, we
Speaker 4: were like, oh, we got to do something. And we
Speaker 4: meet her with this juicing and we thought, oh, well,
Speaker 4: that's kind of cool. Maybe we should try that. And
Speaker 4: she had a juice cleanse, one of her classes that
Speaker 4: she was putting on because she was this health coach.
Speaker 4: So I took the class and it was all online,
Speaker 4: or I guess I should say Zoom, and they typically
Speaker 4: just lasted for like a week. But she taught you
Speaker 4: how to make the juice, what are the things you're
Speaker 4: going to need. So we actually did it together, and
Speaker 4: it was very successful. I mean, we lost a lot
Speaker 4: of weight, and then we actually did it longer. And yeah,
Speaker 4: it was very positive. She said that she'd gotten her
Speaker 4: certification through HMI, which was Health Mastery Institute, and that
Speaker 4: the materials she gave us were written by the owner
Speaker 4: of HMI. But then as a certified health coach through HMI,
Speaker 4: she got to use these materials. And at that time,
Speaker 4: we just paid her directly. And then she would give
Speaker 4: you a copy of the materials. That changed later, but
Speaker 4: at that time, it was very, very new.
Speaker 1: Over time, the Bleacher conversations turned into something more. Joanne
Speaker 1: says she began researching HMI herself.
Speaker 4: At first, it was all just through her and the
Speaker 4: interactions with her and learning about things that she learned
Speaker 4: through HMI.
Speaker 3: And.
Speaker 4: We started to become more friendly with Sierra at more
Speaker 4: sporting events, and I'd always ask her these questions. And
Speaker 4: I even signed up with her for some skincare stuff.
Speaker 4: It's all organic and holistic and this and that. And
Speaker 4: over the time, I was kind of thinking, gee, I'd
Speaker 4: like to learn what she has learned for my own knowledge,
Speaker 4: not necessarily to become a health coach, but I just
Speaker 4: wanted my own knowledge. And plus, I didn't want to
Speaker 4: abuse our friendship or friendliness, you know, by always asking
Speaker 4: her stuff without hiring her, in a sense. She was
Speaker 4: dating someone, some guy, health nut guy.
Speaker 8: She had a husband and they were either divorced or
Speaker 8: in the process of divorcing with four children.
Speaker 4: And that's when I asked her about you know, HMI and,
Speaker 4: you know, can I do this? What was it like
Speaker 4: to take the classes? And so she says, she gave
Speaker 4: me all the information. I did a ton of research
Speaker 4: on HMI and becoming a health coach and it wasn't
Speaker 4: so interested in a business, but then I thought, well,
Speaker 4: you know, the kids are in school, maybe this would
Speaker 4: be a good thing to do on the side because
Speaker 4: it was important to us. that someone be around when
Speaker 4: the kids were at home from school. I was about
Speaker 4: 2017 and it was about $ 3, 000. So, you know, significant, but,
Speaker 4: you know, compared to Cornell, it was less. I can't
Speaker 4: remember what Cornell was, but there was 26 modules and
Speaker 4: you had to go through each module and there were
Speaker 4: questions and, you know, assignments that you had to submit.
Speaker 4: And you actually submitted them directly to Wee and Ashanti.
Speaker 4: So that was kind of my first real interaction with
Speaker 4: her was purchasing this course because it wasn't through Laura.
Speaker 4: It was directly through HMI. She would correct my things.
Speaker 4: I never talked to her personally, but But it was
Speaker 4: also through these courses, because they were all recorded, was
Speaker 4: when I first started hearing Leanna's voice. Because you never
Speaker 4: saw her. I mean, you saw like this fuzzy picture
Speaker 4: of her on her HMI website. It was kind of
Speaker 4: weird because the picture kind of looking down on her
Speaker 4: and she had sunglasses on and it was fuzzy and,
Speaker 4: you know, whatever.
Speaker 1: Court records from federal proceedings in Hawaii document concerns about
Speaker 1: the credentials underlying that program. As explored in Episode 2,
Speaker 1: in July 2023, the Clinical Nutrition Certification Board formally notified
Speaker 1: the court that Liana Shanti had advertised a Certified Clinical
Speaker 1: Nutritionist designation she did not hold. A 25-page packet documenting
Speaker 1: the credential and recertification standards she had not met was
Speaker 1: submitted as supporting evidence. A separate exhibit submitted to the
Speaker 1: same federal court proceedings mapped what the filing describes as
Speaker 1: the network of products and services through which Liana Shanti's
Speaker 1: students were guided, beginning with HMI health coaching and progressing
Speaker 1: through the mother wound and father wound programs, the illuminations
Speaker 1: materials and private signal chat groups. While Joanne was working
Speaker 1: through the HMI certification, something else was changing. Joanne says
Speaker 1: a visit to Washington state had revealed that her mother
Speaker 1: was beginning to show signs of memory loss. Tom and
Speaker 1: Joanne made the decision to relocate. In 2018, the move
Speaker 1: happened quickly. That left a question about the house, the
Speaker 1: property they had spent nearly two decades restoring. Selling, they say,
Speaker 1: didn't feel right. They didn't know how long they would
Speaker 1: be gone. So they decided to.
Speaker 4: Rent it out.
Speaker 6: It seemed like, hey, this is someone that we know.
Speaker 4: And she was living in like this three bedroom, a
Speaker 4: little duplex thing. Her three boys shared one room. Her
Speaker 4: daughter had her own room and she had her own room,
Speaker 4: I think. And so it was, you know, a really small,
Speaker 4: small space. We decided, you know, hey, would, you know,
Speaker 4: you could rent our place. How much do you pay
Speaker 4: for rent at this place that she was renting? What
Speaker 4: was it? It was.
Speaker 3: $ 1, 455. I know that number.
Speaker 4: Yes, $ 1, 455.
Speaker 8: We let her keep paying the same amount to us,
Speaker 8: even though we hadn't even really done the calculus on
Speaker 8: what we needed.
Speaker 4: It didn't cover the whole, our mortgage.
Speaker 6: We probably would have rented it for more if we
Speaker 6: had more time.
Speaker 4: We feel so much better that someone we know is
Speaker 4: going to love and adore our house. And so part
Speaker 4: of the agreement was that, of course, some of this
Speaker 4: stuff is special to us, so be careful. We packed
Speaker 4: up a bunch of stuff and put it up in
Speaker 4: the attic. One of the things that we specifically said,
Speaker 4: because we got renter's insurance and all of that on
Speaker 4: the place, is that you can't use the attic as
Speaker 4: a bedroom. And there were... She had four kids. We
Speaker 4: had four kids. They all had their own rooms. I mean,
Speaker 4: there were plenty of bedrooms for everybody. And the attic
Speaker 4: needed to not be a bedroom because it only had
Speaker 4: one access, right?
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 4: So legally for us to be renting it, we couldn't
Speaker 4: have that as a bedroom. And she said, no problem.
Speaker 4: That's fine.
Speaker 1: So Laura and her children moved into Tom and Joanne's
Speaker 1: house and Laura began renting the property. Tom and Joanne
Speaker 1: came back to Wisconsin for Christmas. They stopped by the
Speaker 1: house to check in and see how everything was going.
Speaker 4: We all came back to Wisconsin for Christmas and And
Speaker 4: I actually went over and met her, went through the house.
Speaker 4: It looked great. We had left a bunch of our
Speaker 4: big furniture out on the porch. I guess we had
Speaker 4: been trying to sell it, but then ran out of time.
Speaker 4: So we said, oh, we'll just leave it here for
Speaker 4: you guys to use. And it was gone. And I said, oh,
Speaker 4: what happened to all of the, is it down in
Speaker 4: the basement or something? She goes, no, I got rid
Speaker 4: of it. And I went, oh. well, wait a sec,
Speaker 4: you know, she goes, well, you said you were trying
Speaker 4: to sell it. I'm like, oh, well, yeah, but I guess,
Speaker 4: you know, since we didn't, we, you know, anyway, she
Speaker 4: took it upon herself. I don't know if she sold
Speaker 4: the furniture or she just gave it away, but whatever.
Speaker 4: And she made some other changes. She removed like all
Speaker 4: of these shelves in our bedroom that were all screwed
Speaker 4: to the wall type of thing. She removed a bunch
Speaker 4: of that stuff and painted the bedroom and all that.
Speaker 4: But We kind of went, well, whatever, you know, not
Speaker 4: a big deal. But it was kind of a premise
Speaker 4: to things. I mean, the house looked great. It was clean.
Speaker 4: It was, everything was fine.
Speaker 1: According to Tom, they chose not to make an issue
Speaker 1: of these things. What they didn't know yet was that
Speaker 1: far bigger changes were underway, not in the house, but
Speaker 1: in Laura herself. As Joanne continued through the HMI certification,
Speaker 1: she says Laura began encouraging her to go further.
Speaker 4: Laura was really encouraging me to take more of Leanna's classes.
Speaker 4: So she had a bunch of other classes that were
Speaker 4: more psychological. So they weren't about nutrition. There were things
Speaker 4: like called mother wound, father wound, narcissistic people. And she said,
Speaker 4: it'll help you to understand your clients. Not that you
Speaker 4: necessarily need this. information for yourself, but more so that
Speaker 4: you can help other people. And these were all recorded classes.
Speaker 4: So it was all Leanna's voice. So once you bought
Speaker 4: the class, you had access to it, you know, forever
Speaker 4: in a sense. And really encouraged you to listen over
Speaker 4: and over. And then also during this time, there was
Speaker 4: this other really special class. And I I don't know
Speaker 4: what it was called, but Laura was really, really pushing it.
Speaker 4: That it was, you know, Leanna only does this class
Speaker 4: like once a year or once every couple of years.
Speaker 4: And Laura had already taken it and it was more expensive.
Speaker 4: And I can't remember exactly how much, but it wasn't
Speaker 4: a hundred bucks. It wasn't 3,000, but it was somewhere
Speaker 4: in between. And that's when you really got into all
Speaker 4: of the Leanna woo-woo stuff, I call it. You know,
Speaker 4: that she was enlightened. There was all of the reincarnation stuff.
Speaker 4: People have toxins from family members over years, from generation
Speaker 4: to generation. That if you're a person that hasn't been enlightened,
Speaker 4: then you make bad decisions. And they really started it
Speaker 4: on that.
Speaker 3: And.
Speaker 4: This class was different because you actually once a week
Speaker 4: had a phone call that you logged into and Leanna
Speaker 4: was actually there live and would talk and answer questions.
Speaker 4: This group of women that were the inner circle. So
Speaker 4: Laura was in it. There was this woman, Sanjit, and
Speaker 4: I always kind of called her the little mother hen
Speaker 4: because she was older. And she had been with Leanna
Speaker 4: from supposedly the beginning of time. And she was a therapist, actually.
Speaker 4: So that kind of gave legitimacy to Leanna.
Speaker 1: According to Joanne, the encouragement to listen to Leanna Shanti's
Speaker 1: audio recordings while driving, cooking, falling asleep was consistent and explicit.
Speaker 1: Former members have described this practice of continuous audio exposure
Speaker 1: as a recurring feature of Leanna Shanti's programs. And after
Speaker 1: attending a live class, Joanne says she was brought into
Speaker 1: contact with a group of women she describes as Liana
Speaker 1: Shanti's inner circle. One of those members, as Joanne mentioned,
Speaker 1: was called Sanjit. The name Sanjit is not familiar at
Speaker 1: this point in the series, but the person is. Sanjit
Speaker 1: is the former name of Kaya Alin, one of the
Speaker 1: names she went by before she received her Akashic name
Speaker 1: Kaya Alin from Liana Shanti. As described up to this
Speaker 1: point in the series by former members, Kaya Aline was
Speaker 1: one of Liana Shanti's closest inner circle members. According to
Speaker 1: former members, she was heavily involved in the counselling and
Speaker 1: guidance women received inside the community. From the live class,
Speaker 1: Joanne says, came an invitation to something more exclusive.
Speaker 4: There was this other woman, Erlin. So there was like,
Speaker 4: it was... Laura, Erlin, and Sajit that were kind of,
Speaker 4: you know, the three amigos, in a sense, you know,
Speaker 4: that were her, were Leanna's, like, top ladies. So I'm
Speaker 4: taking this class, so I'm getting into the inner circle.
Speaker 4: Laura tells me about, well, there's this other group, the
Speaker 4: Lemurian Sisterhood, that I think you'd be really great to
Speaker 4: be a part of. And I'm like, okay, what's this?
Speaker 4: And she said, well, you see, Leanna is clairvoyant. I'm like, really? Wow.
Speaker 4: She goes, yes, she's a shaman. And, you know, she
Speaker 4: can see things. And she's a conduit from God. And
Speaker 4: I thought, huh, okay. Well, you know, in all this time,
Speaker 4: it's been a real positive experience so far. You know,
Speaker 4: I'm trying to do this health coaching stuff or whatever.
Speaker 4: And I thought I would be open-minded to these things.
Speaker 4: So this was a, what, $ 89 a month, you know,
Speaker 4: that was a chat, a texting chat each week. And
Speaker 4: only certain people were allowed in it. And then you
Speaker 4: could ask questions of Leanna. And then she would answer.
Speaker 4: And I remember saying, gosh, it's just so strange.
Speaker 9: It seems like all of the women in this group,
Speaker 9: they're all like, you know, divorced or getting divorced. And wow,
Speaker 9: and all these men, they're all cheating on their wives.
Speaker 4: And I said, that's just really, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: Joanne says one evening she decided to test what she
Speaker 1: was hearing.
Speaker 4: One of the nights she was going on about how,
Speaker 4: you know, in your past, if you're Family members, let's say,
Speaker 4: especially with women, you know, if your grandmother was in
Speaker 4: a bad relationship, she just passes that on to, you know,
Speaker 4: her daughter and, you know, generation after generation until you
Speaker 4: become enlightened and you get to move on from that.
Speaker 4: So people are asking all these questions. Oh, well, did
Speaker 4: this person, you know, did this happen to me or
Speaker 4: did that? And, you know, she would always, you know,
Speaker 4: be able to say, oh, yes, that happened to you.
Speaker 4: People would ask about their dreams and she goes, yes, well,
Speaker 4: that means this. And, you know, that was from a
Speaker 4: past life or this, that. So I asked the question, oh, well,
Speaker 4: since I know that my grandfather cheated on my grandmother,
Speaker 4: because my grandmother told me, did my grandfather cheat on
Speaker 4: my grandmother? No, yes, yes. And And I said, well,
Speaker 4: since he cheated on my grandmother, did, you know, my
Speaker 4: stepdad cheat on my mother? Oh, yes, definitely. And I'm like, really? Okay, well,
Speaker 4: that's interesting. You know, maybe, I don't know. And so then,
Speaker 4: because I knew darn well that this was not true,
Speaker 4: I said, so did Tom cheat on me? Yes, and
Speaker 4: he is. He has cheated on you repeatedly and he
Speaker 4: is hiding money from you. And I was like, what?
Speaker 4: How can that be true? And I'm thinking to myself,
Speaker 4: we have four kids. I know our relationship and there's like,
Speaker 4: when would he have time for crying out loud?
Speaker 10: When in the world would this poor man who's like
Speaker 10: working and he comes home and he's, you know, playing
Speaker 10: with the kids and What in the world?
Speaker 4: He's going to have time. She said, oh, definitely so.
Speaker 4: And then all the other ladies are like, oh, Joanne,
Speaker 4: we're so sorry for you. Oh, my gosh, I'm so
Speaker 4: sorry that you're learning this. And I'm like, this can't
Speaker 4: be true. Hiding money?
Speaker 1: Joanne says she wasn't prepared to take those claims at
Speaker 1: face value.
Speaker 4: So I think I contacted Laura afterwards and I was like,
Speaker 4: I can't believe this. This is so crazy. I want
Speaker 4: to talk. How does Leanna know this? And Laura said,
Speaker 4: you can talk to her personally. There are sessions you
Speaker 4: can sign up for just to talk to her personally.
Speaker 4: Private phone calls. And they're like $ 500 for an hour
Speaker 4: of time. And supposedly she has had many of these.
Speaker 4: And I remember also hearing that Aralyn, because she was
Speaker 4: so enlightened, because she met with and had these phone
Speaker 4: calls once a week with Leanna. So like two grand
Speaker 4: a month, this Aralyn person was paying. That was what
Speaker 4: I was told. I tried to schedule a time, but
Speaker 4: there were no openings. But then all of a sudden, boom,
Speaker 4: there was an opening. And so I had my little
Speaker 4: meeting with Leanna. And she was super nice in the beginning,
Speaker 4: you know, kind of chit-chatting. And I said, so, you know,
Speaker 4: tell me about Tom's cheating on me. Oh, yes. Multiple
Speaker 4: times over the years. And he's hiding money. And I said, wow, well,
Speaker 4: where is he hiding this money? He had one bank account.
Speaker 4: I mean, everything was open. She said he's hiding it
Speaker 4: in a bank account. close to his office. So now note, too,
Speaker 4: that we live in a small town. He works in
Speaker 4: a town at that time that's even smaller than our town.
Speaker 4: I had worked at a bank for a while. So
Speaker 4: I took this information, and I start calling all the
Speaker 4: banks around his office. And even in the bigger town,
Speaker 4: I made up some story like, oh, this... Tonguy, he
Speaker 4: did some such nice work for us, a handyman, and
Speaker 4: he was so kind and he won't take any money.
Speaker 4: So I asked his son, you know, where are any banks?
Speaker 4: And I'm just calling to make sure because I want
Speaker 4: to just deposit some money because I knew from working
Speaker 4: in a bank, if someone came in and wanted to
Speaker 4: deposit money into someone's account, the bank will take the money.
Speaker 4: They're not going to give any personal information about the account,
Speaker 4: but they would take the money. Now, if I just
Speaker 4: called him and said, does this person have an account there?
Speaker 4: They would say, oh, I can't give you that information.
Speaker 4: But I said, I just want to make sure that
Speaker 4: I'm depositing it in the right place. So I called
Speaker 4: all these places. No, he doesn't have an account. You know,
Speaker 4: good luck. You know, people are so nice. You know,
Speaker 4: it's the Midwest. And so no accounts. I call all
Speaker 4: these 80 gajillion banks.
Speaker 2: No account.
Speaker 10: So the next week on that little thread, you know,
Speaker 10: text thing, I said, I called all banks.
Speaker 4: He doesn't have an account anywhere. And she texted, you
Speaker 4: can't do that. I said, what do you mean I
Speaker 4: can't do that? I did do that. And he doesn't
Speaker 4: have an account anywhere.
Speaker 10: And so then she says something like, oh, well, it's his,
Speaker 10: one of his siblings is holding onto the money. I'm thinking,
Speaker 10: that's even more far-fetched.
Speaker 1: According to Joanne, it was shortly after she challenged those
Speaker 1: claims publicly that something else was introduced, this time involving
Speaker 1: Laura directly.
Speaker 4: And so then she creates this new thing to get
Speaker 4: me off track. She said, well, he made advancements to
Speaker 4: Laura and she has had two advances. private phone calls
Speaker 4: with me to talk about how uncomfortable he made her feel.
Speaker 4: And I was like, what? Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 4: You know, so I'm thinking, OK, well, then that's real because,
Speaker 4: you know, Laura wouldn't make up something like that. And
Speaker 4: I thought, holy crap. So, of course, I get off,
Speaker 4: you know, this chat thing and I'm trying to get
Speaker 4: in touch with Laura. And of course, I can't for
Speaker 4: a And then when I finally got her, she was
Speaker 4: really nervous. And she just said, I just, I don't,
Speaker 4: I can't talk about it. He just makes me uncomfortable.
Speaker 4: And that was it.
Speaker 1: Joanne says she found neither explanation credible. In her view,
Speaker 1: the allegation about Tom appeared immediately after she had challenged
Speaker 1: and disproved Liana Shanti's financial claims. And she believes it
Speaker 1: was designed to redirect her attention and to drive a
Speaker 1: wedge between her and her husband. Tom says he was
Speaker 1: not informed of the allegation until later on. While Joanne
Speaker 1: was navigating the group sessions, something else was happening. The
Speaker 1: rent had stopped.
Speaker 8: It's worth noting that Laura paid rent for five months
Speaker 8: and then stopped. And during the time that Joanne is
Speaker 8: deepening past the health certification and getting involved with these
Speaker 8: inner circle activities where more of a spiritual nature where
Speaker 8: they're transitioning.
Speaker 6: From generic, oh, mother wound, father wound, to trying to
Speaker 6: apply it to people so that they can get them
Speaker 6: to do things. She stopped paying, you know, she had
Speaker 6: stopped paying rent, you know, so then Joanne finds out, oh,
Speaker 6: there are these $ 500 calls, and you're like.
Speaker 5: Oh, $ 500 is.
Speaker 6: Going to Liana, but none coming to us for rent.
Speaker 5: So it's hard to separate what they.
Speaker 8: Were trying to do to manipulate or motivate Joanne and
Speaker 8: And maybe stopping.
Speaker 6: Paying rent was part of the ability to put a
Speaker 6: break between us.
Speaker 7: Joanne had more of a conversation with.
Speaker 6: Laura or Kahira.
Speaker 5: Than I did.
Speaker 6: But, you know, there was that question of, hey, what
Speaker 6: is she going to pay?
Speaker 3: And there was.
Speaker 6: Always promises of this and that and the other thing.
Speaker 3: Laura had apparently.
Speaker 7: Changed her job with Liana, where she was going to
Speaker 7: start to move to become the head of HMI. And
Speaker 7: she gave this up as reasons for not having the money.
Speaker 7: I had to give up a lot of my health
Speaker 7: certification while I work on this with Liana. They were
Speaker 7: really trying hard to get Joanne to mistrust me and
Speaker 7: to make a break, possibly, you know, separation, divorce, who
Speaker 7: knows what.
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 6: And it's worth noting, I had communications with her where I.
Speaker 8: Gave her a spreadsheet that showed, like, interests.
Speaker 5: On rent not paid, just trying to show her that
Speaker 5: with a real landlord, you'd be accumulating more than just
Speaker 5: the principle of rent.
Speaker 6: She even agreed to these things happily. Oh, this big thing.
Speaker 5: Is about to happen with HMI, and I'll pay you back.
Speaker 6: I'll pay you back the interest.
Speaker 5: So she acknowledged this throughout the time. It was a
Speaker 5: trade-off between pushing her too hard, and then at some point,
Speaker 5: when it grew large enough, pushing her and having her
Speaker 5: just vanish and that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: According to Tom, the debt kept accumulating, over 15 months
Speaker 1: in total, reaching approximately.
Speaker 4: $ 20, 000.
Speaker 1: He describes the position they were in. Push too hard
Speaker 1: and Laura might simply vanish. Too soft and the debt
Speaker 1: keeps growing. Throughout it all, he says, there were always explanations,
Speaker 1: always promises.
Speaker 5: The point was that it wasn't 15 months in a vacuum.
Speaker 6: We were in, you know, reasonable contact with her the
Speaker 6: whole time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because in the end, It was 15 months of
Speaker 4: not paying rent. So I'm in all these groups and stuff,
Speaker 4: this inner circle, and she's talking about how successful she
Speaker 4: is monetarily. And none of these other people know that
Speaker 4: she's not paying rent. And I'm like the only one
Speaker 4: sitting there, like listening or reading what she's telling people
Speaker 4: and knowing it's all bug because she's not even paying
Speaker 4: us rent. Well, I mean, one of the things too
Speaker 4: was that Leanna, I wanted people talking within the group,
Speaker 4: but I didn't want to embarrass Kahira within the group.
Speaker 4: And I had to say that, you know, I noticed
Speaker 4: that she was becoming less and less vocal in the
Speaker 4: group as time went on. Since Leanna is clairvoyant, I figured,
Speaker 4: you know, she knew all about this and that she
Speaker 4: wasn't paying rent and all that. And I thought it
Speaker 4: was strange that Leanna hadn't reached out to me because
Speaker 4: of this. Because I was thinking, we were, I mean,
Speaker 4: we were legitimately concerned about her and that how much
Speaker 4: she was getting herself into this hole.
Speaker 1: Court records corroborate Tom and Joanne's account. Documents from the
Speaker 1: Ozaukee County Circuit Court in Wisconsin show that Laura... who
Speaker 1: had by that point legally changed her name to Kahira Noelani,
Speaker 1: was sued over the unpaid rent. According to those court records,
Speaker 1: she had occupied the property for approximately 20 months but
Speaker 1: paid rent for only the first five. Court filings in
Speaker 1: that case include emails in which she attributed the missed
Speaker 1: payment to, in her own words, working a crazy amount
Speaker 1: of hours with Liana to turn HMI into a multi-million
Speaker 1: dollar empire. Court records also show that approximately 10 months
Speaker 1: after a judgment was entered in the Wisconsin rent case,
Speaker 1: Cohera Noelani filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection in the
Speaker 1: Eastern District of Wisconsin. Her schedules listed approximately $ 26, 200 in
Speaker 1: total assets on an income of approximately $ 4, 472 per month.
Speaker 1: The bankruptcy trustee filed a report of no distribution, meaning
Speaker 1: there were no assets available to pay creditors. Her debts
Speaker 1: were discharged in January 2022. The court records show that
Speaker 1: the woman who had presented herself to Tom, Joanne and
Speaker 1: her community as a successful health coach and rising executive
Speaker 1: within a multi-million dollar enterprise had, by her own sworn filings,
Speaker 1: no assets.
Speaker 4: To her name.
Speaker 1: When Joanne tried to raise her concerns through the community's
Speaker 1: own internal channels, she says the response was immediate.
Speaker 4: I wanted to talk to Leanna about it, but... She
Speaker 4: was always like so, so, so busy. So I did
Speaker 4: reach out to Sanjit because she was the mother hen, right?
Speaker 4: I just said I was having some trouble and I
Speaker 4: was looking for help on how to deal with this.
Speaker 4: And Sanjit just, boom, cut me off. She goes, shame
Speaker 4: on you for even trying to approach me. No, I
Speaker 4: cannot talk to you about one of our other members.
Speaker 4: And if you have a problem, you need to talk
Speaker 4: to Leanna. So I was really cut off immediately and
Speaker 4: shamed for even thinking to do that.
Speaker 1: And then, Joanne says, she started to understand something that
Speaker 1: had been there all along.
Speaker 4: So one of the interesting, really interesting things that Leanna
Speaker 4: always taught everybody as part of her teaching was, do
Speaker 4: not tell anybody in your personal circle about this sisterhood
Speaker 4: and about her being clairvoyant and the memories that you're having.
Speaker 4: I could see now looking back on it, she would
Speaker 4: help people to remember things certain ways. She always said,
Speaker 4: do not tell other people about this. If you decide
Speaker 4: to cut yourself off from your family or your you
Speaker 4: want a divorce or something like that. It has to
Speaker 4: come from you and you have to believe it and
Speaker 4: own it. And I remember too, whenever I kept questioning
Speaker 4: this stuff, you just have to trust that this is correct.
Speaker 4: When she said something about Kihira and Tom making advances,
Speaker 4: I wanted to talk to Kihira first. I'm just assuming
Speaker 4: is that Leanna contacted her and said, you need to
Speaker 4: say this and you just You know, you said he
Speaker 4: was making you uncomfortable. Yeah, it's making him uncomfortable because
Speaker 4: we're asking her for a rent. But we were always very,
Speaker 4: very nice about it.
Speaker 8: I'm pretty sure Joanne was discouraged from talking with me
Speaker 8: about anything of this nature because I didn't hear about
Speaker 8: it until later.
Speaker 1: What all of this means in practice, Joanne says, was
Speaker 1: that anyone on the outside trying to reach someone inside,
Speaker 1: a worried spouse, a concerned parent, a skeptical friend, would
Speaker 1: always be trying to reach someone who would be specifically
Speaker 1: instructed not to discuss the very things they were asking about.
Speaker 1: Former members described the community as sealed from the outside
Speaker 1: in exactly this way. And from the inside, they say,
Speaker 1: every doubt, every question about whether any of this was
Speaker 1: right was framed as the ego resisting growth. According to Tom,
Speaker 1: by the spring of 2020, the debt had reached approximately.
Speaker 4: $ 20, 000.
Speaker 1: He was preparing to come back to Wisconsin in person.
Speaker 1: He had communicated to Laura that if she wasn't in
Speaker 1: a position to begin paying rent, they would need to
Speaker 1: find a different arrangement, possibly eviction. The trip was planned
Speaker 1: for March 2020, then COVID-19 hit. On the evening of
Speaker 1: April 22nd, 2020, Tom and Joanne received word that their
Speaker 1: house was on fire. The cause of the fire has
Speaker 1: not been publicly determined.
Speaker 4: So it was late at night.
Speaker 5: About 10 o'clock our time. My sister texted me saying,
Speaker 5: your house.
Speaker 3: Is on fire.
Speaker 4: Right. And then one of the kids that hung out
Speaker 4: at our house over the years had become a fireman.
Speaker 4: And he texted our son and he said, oh, my God,
Speaker 4: your house is on fire. And we're like, what? And
Speaker 4: then his sister is contacting us, who she lives across
Speaker 4: the street. You know, again, we live in a small town.
Speaker 4: She calls me and says, the house is on fire.
Speaker 4: And I went, oh, my gosh.
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 4: And she goes, yeah, there's like fire trucks, there's all
Speaker 4: this stuff going on. And I said, do you see
Speaker 4: Kahira and the kids? Are they okay? And she's like,
Speaker 4: I don't know. So she runs outside and gets through
Speaker 4: all this mess and she can't find them.
Speaker 1: Next time, we continue with what Tom and Joanne say
Speaker 1: they found in the aftermath of the fire, the insurance claim,
Speaker 1: the fundraiser, and what Dean and Charlotte say they were
Speaker 1: confronted with in the weeks and months that followed. Join
Speaker 1: us next time for episode seven of the Insta-scummer.