WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:06.719 Dean and Charlotte were sitting on their couch one evening 2 00:00:06.900 --> 00:00:14.820 watching television. On the screen, little fires everywhere. Firefighters battling 3 00:00:14.839 --> 00:00:20.510 a house fire, flames tearing through the roof, people standing 4 00:00:20.589 --> 00:00:26.510 outside watching the blaze in horror. Then Dean's phone rang. 5 00:00:27.679 --> 00:00:31.399 We were on the episode watching the specific part of 6 00:00:31.460 --> 00:00:35.399 this episode where the house is up in flames and 7 00:00:35.439 --> 00:00:38.890 the kids had something to do with it. And we 8 00:00:38.929 --> 00:00:41.750 get a phone call from his daughter. 9 00:00:41.850 --> 00:00:45.850 Minutes after watching this part of the episode, minutes after that. 10 00:00:46.090 --> 00:00:48.189 Crying because the house is on fire. 11 00:00:49.210 --> 00:00:52.340 The house wasn't the one on the television. It was 12 00:00:52.399 --> 00:00:55.960 the rental house where Dean's ex-wife Laura was living with 13 00:00:56.000 --> 00:01:01.310 their children. Hundreds of miles away in Washington State, Tom 14 00:01:01.369 --> 00:01:04.170 and Joanne were on their own couch when a message 15 00:01:04.269 --> 00:01:04.810 came through. 16 00:01:05.950 --> 00:01:07.510 One of the kids that hung out at our house 17 00:01:08.030 --> 00:01:11.790 over the years had become a fireman. And he texted 18 00:01:12.250 --> 00:01:14.930 our son and he said, oh my God, your house 19 00:01:14.989 --> 00:01:16.730 is on fire. And we're like, what? 20 00:01:17.659 --> 00:01:20.700 About 10 o'clock our time. My sister texted me saying 21 00:01:20.719 --> 00:01:21.519 your house is on fire. 22 00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:26.670 The house Tom and Joanne owned in Wisconsin. the same 23 00:01:26.709 --> 00:01:30.280 house Laura had been renting. What none of them knew 24 00:01:30.329 --> 00:01:33.359 yet was that the fire would only be the beginning 25 00:01:33.659 --> 00:01:38.879 of a story that involved unpaid rent, insurance payouts, fundraisers, 26 00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:41.620 and a woman who had risen to become one of 27 00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:47.730 Liana Shanti's most trusted followers. I'm your host, Casey, and 28 00:01:47.790 --> 00:01:55.079 this is Episode 6 of The Insta Scammer. Dean and 29 00:01:55.159 --> 00:02:00.049 Charlotte met in 2017. Dean says that from the very 30 00:02:00.109 --> 00:02:04.810 first date, he put everything on the table. His divorce, 31 00:02:05.329 --> 00:02:10.930 the custody situation, the ongoing conflict, a restraining order. He 32 00:02:10.990 --> 00:02:15.909 describes leaving the decision entirely with Charlotte. But to understand 33 00:02:15.969 --> 00:02:18.590 how this family became part of the story we're telling, 34 00:02:19.009 --> 00:02:22.699 we have to go back further. Back to when Dean 35 00:02:22.900 --> 00:02:25.780 and his ex-wife Laura first met. 36 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:29.979 We both went to the same technical college. She stood 37 00:02:30.020 --> 00:02:32.300 out to be very different just because of the way 38 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:35.849 she dressed. She was very physically conservative. You know, she 39 00:02:35.870 --> 00:02:39.469 wore long skirts and she, for one, it was a 40 00:02:39.590 --> 00:02:42.610 kind of a male-dominated field of study. It was tool 41 00:02:42.629 --> 00:02:45.490 and die design. And she was the minority. There was 42 00:02:45.629 --> 00:02:49.069 maybe 25, 30 people in our class and maybe four 43 00:02:49.090 --> 00:02:52.680 or five of them were women. So she was homeschooled. She, 44 00:02:52.909 --> 00:02:55.680 she did very well. She excelled in academics and she 45 00:02:55.740 --> 00:03:00.139 graduated two years early. I've maybe met her that first semester, 46 00:03:00.340 --> 00:03:02.759 but didn't really start talking to her more in depth 47 00:03:02.819 --> 00:03:06.759 until our final year. And then I find out that 48 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:09.539 she's very involved in her, in her church at the time. 49 00:03:10.539 --> 00:03:14.240 She started sharing the Bible, which was very new to me. 50 00:03:14.259 --> 00:03:17.319 I was brought up actually not knowing anything about really 51 00:03:17.740 --> 00:03:20.599 the Bible or the church or Jesus or anything. I 52 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:23.139 want to say the last month or so of school 53 00:03:23.340 --> 00:03:26.719 before graduation that she shared Jesus with me to the 54 00:03:26.759 --> 00:03:29.689 point where I accepted it into my life. I became 55 00:03:29.710 --> 00:03:33.750 a born again Christian and wouldn't have gotten there, you know, 56 00:03:33.969 --> 00:03:36.469 without her, without her help and her explaining all this 57 00:03:36.490 --> 00:03:38.370 to me. Well, anyway, I got to meet her family. 58 00:03:38.389 --> 00:03:41.250 I want to say that same night that I got saved, 59 00:03:41.310 --> 00:03:44.409 which is back in 97. And she was the oldest 60 00:03:45.370 --> 00:03:49.840 of 11 kids. All of her siblings were homeschooled. And 61 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:52.099 as I got to know them, I fell in love 62 00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:55.419 with their family. I fell in love with how close 63 00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:57.620 they were to each other. They all kind of looked 64 00:03:57.659 --> 00:03:59.860 up to me because I was older than all of them. 65 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:03.080 And they were all very into sports. I was very 66 00:04:03.139 --> 00:04:05.229 into sports. So we did a lot of basketball, a 67 00:04:05.219 --> 00:04:07.650 lot of football together. And man, I just thought it 68 00:04:07.909 --> 00:04:10.669 was great how they, you know, they all sat at 69 00:04:10.689 --> 00:04:12.930 the kitchen table together and ate. And, you know, it 70 00:04:12.949 --> 00:04:15.530 was just a very tight knit family. And I'm like, 71 00:04:15.610 --> 00:04:17.819 oh my gosh, and now I'm surrounded by all these 72 00:04:17.939 --> 00:04:20.439 loving people. I loved it, and that was so new 73 00:04:20.459 --> 00:04:23.100 to me, and that was a big attraction. 74 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:26.459 Dean describes the first 10 to 11. 75 00:04:26.100 --> 00:04:28.250 Years of their marriage as a good period. 76 00:04:28.870 --> 00:04:34.069 Four children, what he calls building their own little tribe. Then, 77 00:04:34.389 --> 00:04:36.569 he says, something changed. 78 00:04:37.810 --> 00:04:40.029 We met a lot of new families through this new 79 00:04:40.069 --> 00:04:43.569 church and became more active. They broke into smaller groups 80 00:04:43.620 --> 00:04:45.660 during the week, so we had kind of a house 81 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:49.279 church that we would attend on a weekly basis where 82 00:04:49.300 --> 00:04:53.180 we can really share and not worry about judgment. It 83 00:04:53.220 --> 00:04:55.639 was nice, and that was also the time period where 84 00:04:55.660 --> 00:04:58.680 this came into our lives and then just things kind 85 00:04:58.699 --> 00:04:59.300 of hit the fan. 86 00:05:00.300 --> 00:05:03.060 Bean says the man who entered their lives came through 87 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:07.709 their children's basketball program at the YMCA. He was approximately 88 00:05:07.709 --> 00:05:10.449 10 years younger than Laura at the time. Over the 89 00:05:10.470 --> 00:05:13.769 weeks that followed, Dean says Laura began raising the idea 90 00:05:14.029 --> 00:05:16.389 of moving him into the family home. 91 00:05:17.509 --> 00:05:20.269 This goes back to when my ex-wife and I started 92 00:05:20.449 --> 00:05:24.620 having marriage problems. Back when we were still together, we 93 00:05:24.660 --> 00:05:27.439 had introduced a young man into our home. We met 94 00:05:27.459 --> 00:05:32.519 him through the YMCA, through our kids' basketball program. He was, 95 00:05:32.540 --> 00:05:35.660 I want to say, like around 10 years younger than 96 00:05:36.310 --> 00:05:39.629 My ex-wife at the time, he was coaching some of 97 00:05:39.689 --> 00:05:42.839 our kids, our boys in basketball and this thing was. 98 00:05:43.250 --> 00:05:45.769 Then over the course of a few weeks, we got 99 00:05:45.790 --> 00:05:48.550 to know him. My ex would talk with him and 100 00:05:48.569 --> 00:05:52.019 they started building a relationship. One day she comes to 101 00:05:52.060 --> 00:05:53.819 me and she says, I think, or what do you 102 00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:55.899 think about letting him live with us? He has a 103 00:05:56.600 --> 00:05:59.040 rocky relationship with his parents. Currently he was staying with 104 00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:01.720 his dad. Why don't we at least have more for lunch? 105 00:06:02.139 --> 00:06:04.639 And I said, okay, well, it seems harmless. Yeah, he 106 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:07.000 seems like a nice guy. So we had him over 107 00:06:07.040 --> 00:06:10.490 for lunch. Things weren't good. Shortly after, she's like, what 108 00:06:10.509 --> 00:06:12.430 do you think about having him move in with us? 109 00:06:12.910 --> 00:06:14.250 You know, just to give him a place to stay 110 00:06:14.269 --> 00:06:17.850 until he gets on his feet and establishes, you know, 111 00:06:17.889 --> 00:06:20.750 more of a career or whatever. And I'm like, oh, 112 00:06:21.009 --> 00:06:23.490 I don't think so. You know, I worked full time. 113 00:06:23.550 --> 00:06:25.370 I'm out of the house the majority of the day. 114 00:06:25.490 --> 00:06:28.360 She was a stay-at-home mom. She ran a small business 115 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:30.879 out of the house. So she was, and she was 116 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:35.360 homeschooling at the time. So I don't like how that feels. Well, 117 00:06:35.379 --> 00:06:38.680 then she brought it You know, she said something like, well, 118 00:06:38.740 --> 00:06:41.040 I feel like God is putting him in our lives. 119 00:06:41.220 --> 00:06:43.930 And then I'm like, well, how can I come against God? 120 00:06:43.959 --> 00:06:46.410 You know, I'd feel horrible if, if I were the 121 00:06:46.490 --> 00:06:48.829 one who's standing in the way of something God is 122 00:06:48.870 --> 00:06:51.170 trying to do. So I'm like, okay, well, let's give 123 00:06:51.209 --> 00:06:52.769 it a shot for a couple of weeks or a 124 00:06:52.790 --> 00:06:55.350 month and see how it goes. Well, of course we 125 00:06:55.370 --> 00:06:57.610 bring him in, we give him his own room. He's 126 00:06:57.629 --> 00:07:01.110 helping out around the house. He's cooking. He's a joy. 127 00:07:01.129 --> 00:07:03.009 You know, he's, we got along great at the time, 128 00:07:03.029 --> 00:07:04.589 you know, we're playing football together. 129 00:07:05.709 --> 00:07:08.230 Dean says it was over the months that followed that 130 00:07:08.250 --> 00:07:10.050 the picture became clear to him. 131 00:07:11.230 --> 00:07:13.949 His job at the time was a personal trainer. Well, 132 00:07:13.990 --> 00:07:19.329 he started personally training her. And over time, she did 133 00:07:19.379 --> 00:07:22.019 really well. She lost a ton of weight. And then 134 00:07:22.040 --> 00:07:25.079 I think that's when they really started to bond. And 135 00:07:25.240 --> 00:07:31.720 they created more of an emotional bond. And then I 136 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:34.839 want to say he lived with us for about I 137 00:07:34.860 --> 00:07:37.939 don't know, eight to nine months when I started realizing, okay, 138 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:40.240 now I think they have more of a physical attraction 139 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:44.019 and who knows what they're doing now. And I started 140 00:07:44.050 --> 00:07:46.769 getting very suspicious. I kind of witnessed a couple of 141 00:07:46.790 --> 00:07:49.870 things where I was getting ready to go to work 142 00:07:49.910 --> 00:07:51.370 in the morning. I kind of peeked my head into 143 00:07:51.410 --> 00:07:54.250 her office and I see him behind her massaging her shoulders. 144 00:07:54.470 --> 00:07:56.569 And I'm like, okay, this has gone too far. They 145 00:07:56.589 --> 00:07:59.069 didn't know that I saw them doing that. And I 146 00:07:59.110 --> 00:08:01.860 just kind of According to Dean, that admission.... 147 00:08:26.930 --> 00:08:29.910 And everything that came with it was the moment their 148 00:08:29.949 --> 00:08:33.419 marriage effectively ended. Dean says he wanted to try and 149 00:08:33.460 --> 00:08:36.600 work through it, but he says by that point, Laura 150 00:08:36.820 --> 00:08:38.620 had already made her decision. 151 00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:41.820 Like I said, my kids were all homeschooled at the time, 152 00:08:41.860 --> 00:08:44.740 so she would send the boys down to the park, 153 00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:46.960 which we were on the same block at the time, 154 00:08:47.299 --> 00:08:50.080 and the daughter, who was a toddler, she was sleeping 155 00:08:50.100 --> 00:08:51.970 in her bed upstairs, and they were fooling around in 156 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:54.409 the house. Well, not good. I kicked them out of 157 00:08:54.429 --> 00:08:57.399 the house. That's when things kind of took a major turn. 158 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:01.169 She ended up admitting to me that, yes, in fact, 159 00:09:01.269 --> 00:09:05.409 it was a sexual relationship. I'm taken aback by it. 160 00:09:05.610 --> 00:09:10.009 Obviously not happy about it. But I told her, I 161 00:09:10.029 --> 00:09:12.549 don't want a divorce. I think we can work through this. Well, 162 00:09:12.600 --> 00:09:15.059 then she throws another log on the fire and says, 163 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:17.740 it's possible that I might be pregnant with this child. 164 00:09:17.860 --> 00:09:20.200 And that's when I almost lost it. But I still 165 00:09:20.259 --> 00:09:24.210 kept my cool and I'm like, Still, hopefully you're not, 166 00:09:24.309 --> 00:09:26.850 but let's try to work through this. I think she 167 00:09:26.870 --> 00:09:29.529 had already checked out and we both took like a 168 00:09:29.570 --> 00:09:33.450 counseling class separately, but there's the same course. And I 169 00:09:34.450 --> 00:09:37.190 don't know if that was near the time or around 170 00:09:37.210 --> 00:09:41.029 the time when she somehow got connected with Liana, but 171 00:09:41.470 --> 00:09:44.350 that's when I noticed, you know, she filed for legal separation, 172 00:09:44.809 --> 00:09:46.809 moved everything out of the house, kind of left me 173 00:09:46.830 --> 00:09:50.289 hanging high and dry. They ended up moving in together. 174 00:09:51.620 --> 00:09:53.480 Dean describes the separation that followed as contested. 175 00:09:53.539 --> 00:10:03.139 Then, came a plan he says he hadn't anticipated. 176 00:10:04.259 --> 00:10:07.370 Months later, she proposes an idea that she wanted to 177 00:10:07.409 --> 00:10:12.450 move her and the kids and their business to California. 178 00:10:13.070 --> 00:10:15.529 And I'm pretty grounded here with my career and my 179 00:10:15.590 --> 00:10:18.590 family and everything. And at this time, she'd already been 180 00:10:18.610 --> 00:10:21.340 disassociated with her family, so it wasn't a big deal 181 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:23.419 for her to leave her family, but they saw more 182 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:26.279 of a better opportunity for their business in California. 183 00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:30.259 Dean says the moment things came to a head arrived 184 00:10:30.299 --> 00:10:31.820 when he was picking up the children. 185 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:35.450 There was one afternoon where I was picking up the kids, 186 00:10:35.649 --> 00:10:39.629 and she hands me this certified letter, and I... take 187 00:10:39.669 --> 00:10:41.350 it out to my car. I open it, I read it, 188 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:44.279 and it says, you know, it's like a legal document 189 00:10:44.299 --> 00:10:47.279 saying that she plans on taking the kids out of 190 00:10:47.320 --> 00:10:50.559 state and moving to California. And I remember going back 191 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:52.480 into her house and saying, I'm not going to let 192 00:10:52.500 --> 00:10:54.370 you do this. You can't do this. And then I 193 00:10:54.490 --> 00:10:57.549 turned around, I slammed the door behind me, and as 194 00:10:57.629 --> 00:11:00.309 I walked past her on the pilot in the driveway, 195 00:11:00.330 --> 00:11:04.230 I threw my elbow into like the bottom corner of 196 00:11:04.289 --> 00:11:08.320 the hatch of her vehicle, and I just nipped the 197 00:11:08.659 --> 00:11:12.519 lower corner of that back windshield and it shattered. It's 198 00:11:12.539 --> 00:11:15.379 just like popped. And I'm like, what the heck? Like, 199 00:11:15.590 --> 00:11:17.610 I know I didn't hit it that hard, but it 200 00:11:17.629 --> 00:11:19.570 was a bad decision on my part. And I owned 201 00:11:19.629 --> 00:11:21.190 up to it. I went back in and I told 202 00:11:21.250 --> 00:11:24.590 her and she insisted on calling the police. Police came, 203 00:11:24.610 --> 00:11:28.350 you know, I was, I was calm throughout the whole thing. 204 00:11:28.409 --> 00:11:32.009 I told the cop exactly what happened. He went in 205 00:11:32.070 --> 00:11:34.929 and took her story and he came back out and said, that's, 206 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:38.450 you know, she pretty much verified everything you said. She 207 00:11:38.490 --> 00:11:43.129 wasn't afraid for her safety or the kid's safety. And 208 00:11:43.149 --> 00:11:45.309 then I believe the police report had something in there too, 209 00:11:45.350 --> 00:11:48.370 that one of the kids was a little emotionally distraught 210 00:11:48.429 --> 00:11:51.169 after that. I went home. They know the cops said, 211 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:52.600 we're not going to arrest you. We're just going to 212 00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:55.139 have you pay restitution. They gave me the end of 213 00:11:55.159 --> 00:11:57.600 the paperwork for the court hearing and everything. And I 214 00:11:57.620 --> 00:12:00.620 went home a couple hours later. I got my boys, 215 00:12:00.860 --> 00:12:04.059 but the daughter wanted to stay behind. Apparently she had 216 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:05.139 been a little shaken up from that. 217 00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:10.500 What followed, Dean describes, was a restraining order. And then, 218 00:12:10.519 --> 00:12:14.220 a few days later, a second petition seeking to restrict 219 00:12:14.279 --> 00:12:17.720 his contact with his own children. Dean says the family 220 00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:20.679 court granted the order between him and Laura, but rejected 221 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:22.759 the petition against him and his children. 222 00:12:23.879 --> 00:12:25.470 So I was still able to see my kids, which 223 00:12:25.500 --> 00:12:28.090 was great. But like I said, that was definitely a 224 00:12:28.370 --> 00:12:32.350 turning point. They spent nights, you know, like on my 225 00:12:32.409 --> 00:12:35.539 scheduled days. I mean, I feel like I was... a 226 00:12:35.580 --> 00:12:38.460 very good father to them, and we had a great relationship. 227 00:12:39.059 --> 00:12:42.440 Things definitely started to turn. I feel like once my 228 00:12:42.500 --> 00:12:46.330 ex started realizing that she was losing her grip, losing 229 00:12:46.370 --> 00:12:48.690 some of her control over me, that's when she started 230 00:12:48.769 --> 00:12:51.110 acting out, and that's when things made a turn for 231 00:12:51.149 --> 00:12:53.870 the worse. I mean, we have so many examples that 232 00:12:54.110 --> 00:12:59.870 we could share, but looking back, it was gradual. Then 233 00:13:00.389 --> 00:13:03.480 rolling into the latter years, the relationships between the kids 234 00:13:03.549 --> 00:13:07.059 and I definitely started to dwindle. And you can tell 235 00:13:07.259 --> 00:13:11.500 that they would disassociate from, you know, their, like my 236 00:13:11.580 --> 00:13:14.710 ex-wife's family. There were a couple of her brothers that 237 00:13:15.029 --> 00:13:17.309 they would all still keep in contact with. And then 238 00:13:17.350 --> 00:13:20.149 her grandparents, they kept in contact with, but then even 239 00:13:20.210 --> 00:13:23.590 over time, they all just kind of completely cut off ties. 240 00:13:23.970 --> 00:13:26.980 They took a very hard stance against the COVID vaccine 241 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:31.259 and they pretty much cut themselves off from anybody who 242 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:32.080 took the vaccine. 243 00:13:32.899 --> 00:13:34.779 It was crazy because they used it as an excuse 244 00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:37.000 to cut off their family, the little bit of family 245 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:40.159 that she had left. She cut them off because they 246 00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:44.279 got vaccinated. But at the same time, she was sitting 247 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:47.840 in like a gymnasium full of people watching her son's 248 00:13:47.879 --> 00:13:51.159 sporting events. And I'm like, this doesn't make sense. You know, 249 00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:54.500 like you don't see your family very often, but you're 250 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:57.340 in a gymnasium full of people pretty often. 251 00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:12.080 Dean describes the divorce as one of the most difficult 252 00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:15.240 periods of his life and says the legal disputes didn't 253 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:18.250 end when the marriage did. But a few years later, 254 00:14:18.490 --> 00:14:22.269 he met Charlotte. And from the very first conversation, he 255 00:14:22.350 --> 00:14:23.470 told her everything. 256 00:14:24.649 --> 00:14:29.769 We started dating 2017. When we first started dating, he 257 00:14:29.789 --> 00:14:34.610 gave me an overview of his life with his ex. 258 00:14:34.669 --> 00:14:37.029 I was asking leading questions, wanting to know, like, why 259 00:14:37.049 --> 00:14:40.210 did they get divorced, this and that. And while we 260 00:14:40.250 --> 00:14:44.250 were dating, some things were concerning about like some of 261 00:14:44.289 --> 00:14:47.610 the things that his ex-wife would require of him. And 262 00:14:48.190 --> 00:14:51.490 I've done my research at this point. I've created a 263 00:14:51.509 --> 00:14:54.570 chronology of events because I was like, I need to 264 00:14:54.629 --> 00:14:55.490 know the truth here. 265 00:14:56.610 --> 00:15:00.009 Charlotte is clear that this is her interpretation, drawn from 266 00:15:00.070 --> 00:15:03.210 her own research and from comparing notes with other families 267 00:15:03.269 --> 00:15:06.750 going through the same situation. She explains how she went 268 00:15:06.809 --> 00:15:08.629 about building that case for herself. 269 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:13.100 Like, I have what these women are blasting about my 270 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:17.940 husband online, and I have what my husband has told me. 271 00:15:18.100 --> 00:15:20.909 I need to reconcile both of them. And so that 272 00:15:20.990 --> 00:15:25.110 is when I created this chronology. It's got pictures. It's 273 00:15:25.129 --> 00:15:29.250 got police reports. It's got, like, court documents. And after 274 00:15:29.330 --> 00:15:32.049 creating that, I'm like, oh my gosh, my husband is 275 00:15:32.129 --> 00:15:35.419 so truthful. Like, he has told me, like, the truth 276 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:38.919 since day one. You know, like... Day one, on our 277 00:15:38.980 --> 00:15:42.000 first date, he said, here it is. This is my life. 278 00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:44.679 Take it or leave it. And he was so honest 279 00:15:44.750 --> 00:15:48.539 about it. And it's frustrating because these women are blasting 280 00:15:48.590 --> 00:15:52.970 him online and so out of context. You know, there's 281 00:15:53.070 --> 00:15:57.769 so much context missing out of their stories. After we 282 00:15:57.789 --> 00:16:00.450 got married, we found out through a family member who 283 00:16:00.490 --> 00:16:02.809 was like, what is this? She shared the post with 284 00:16:02.929 --> 00:16:06.529 us where his ex changed her name. So she came 285 00:16:06.669 --> 00:16:09.950 out and said how Liana Shanti is her spiritual mother. 286 00:16:10.610 --> 00:16:14.850 She renamed her Kahira Nolani. I think her name means 287 00:16:14.909 --> 00:16:20.710 like something princess, something warrior. So after she posted that, 288 00:16:20.750 --> 00:16:23.960 then I was like, who is this Liana? And does 289 00:16:23.980 --> 00:16:27.019 she have anything to do with this odd behavior we're experiencing? 290 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:32.820 So then I started going to Liana's Instagram account and 291 00:16:32.860 --> 00:16:36.279 just like, combing through it to see if there was 292 00:16:36.379 --> 00:16:40.210 anything like that would make sense of what she's teaching 293 00:16:40.250 --> 00:16:43.450 versus how his ex is acting. I find out all 294 00:16:43.490 --> 00:16:46.169 his kids are following her and she's talking about how 295 00:16:46.210 --> 00:16:47.950 to have your best orgasm. And I was like, is 296 00:16:47.970 --> 00:16:50.679 this appropriate? I don't think this is appropriate for children. 297 00:16:51.159 --> 00:16:54.039 When I first started looking into her, it was just 298 00:16:54.100 --> 00:16:58.100 a weird feeling. And so I was like, you know what? 299 00:16:58.159 --> 00:16:59.960 I got to be prayed up before I go on 300 00:16:59.980 --> 00:17:03.149 to this girl's Instagram account. I need for protection over 301 00:17:03.190 --> 00:17:05.960 my mind and my heart. I went on one day 302 00:17:06.019 --> 00:17:08.700 and I typed in her name and I found Cult 303 00:17:08.740 --> 00:17:11.769 Recovery and I was like, what is this? I was like, 304 00:17:12.009 --> 00:17:14.630 you mean I'm not alone? You mean we're not the 305 00:17:14.730 --> 00:17:18.130 only ones going through this? It confirmed that I'm not 306 00:17:18.230 --> 00:17:21.799 crazy because you start to think like you're crazy. To 307 00:17:21.859 --> 00:17:24.519 talk to other families or other people about it who 308 00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:27.720 are not experiencing it themselves, it's like you sound like 309 00:17:27.779 --> 00:17:31.230 a crazy person. So when I found the cult recovery group, 310 00:17:31.309 --> 00:17:33.569 I was just like, oh my gosh, people who know 311 00:17:33.730 --> 00:17:36.349 exactly what we are going through. And to come to 312 00:17:36.390 --> 00:17:38.430 my husband and be like, babe, you're not the only one. 313 00:17:38.910 --> 00:17:41.839 You are not going through this alone. There's other fathers 314 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:44.299 who are going through the same exact thing. It's the 315 00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:45.920 same exact storyline. 316 00:17:46.819 --> 00:17:52.059 Laura would later legally change her name to Kahira Noelani, 317 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:56.750 a change documented in court records. Dean and Charlotte say 318 00:17:56.890 --> 00:17:59.559 looking back at Laura's behaviour over the years and the 319 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:03.339 gradual estrangement of the children from their extended family, they 320 00:18:03.380 --> 00:18:06.859 believe the connection to Liana Shanti's community may have begun 321 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:10.940 as far back as 2013, possibly earlier. 322 00:18:12.109 --> 00:18:12.829 According to the. 323 00:18:12.750 --> 00:18:15.650 Interviews conducted for this series, for many of the families 324 00:18:15.690 --> 00:18:17.390 who found the Liana Shanti. 325 00:18:17.029 --> 00:18:20.049 Court Recovery Group, that discovery was a turning point. 326 00:18:20.789 --> 00:18:23.640 Up until that moment, most say they had believed they 327 00:18:23.660 --> 00:18:27.670 were dealing with something isolated. A difficult divorce, a child 328 00:18:27.829 --> 00:18:31.910 acting differently, a partner or family member suddenly beyond recognition. 329 00:18:32.730 --> 00:18:35.650 But inside that group, they say the stories began to 330 00:18:35.690 --> 00:18:41.339 sound eerily familiar. Different states, different countries, different families and 331 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:45.960 different relationships, but all the same language, the same accusations. 332 00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:49.420 What seemed to be the same sudden instructions to cut 333 00:18:49.509 --> 00:18:54.720 off parents, spouses, friends and support systems. As those affected 334 00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:58.759 began comparing timelines, messages and court documents, a pattern began 335 00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:01.740 to emerge. And it was through that same network that 336 00:19:01.869 --> 00:19:05.329 I was first approached about telling these stories. Many of 337 00:19:05.390 --> 00:19:07.930 them had spent years trying to explain what had happened 338 00:19:07.950 --> 00:19:13.829 to them, often feeling dismissed, misunderstood or simply unheard. This 339 00:19:13.890 --> 00:19:17.390 podcast became one way to document those experiences and bring 340 00:19:17.430 --> 00:19:21.000 the larger pattern into the open. For Dean and Charlotte, 341 00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:24.200 that network also revealed how wide the ripple effect of 342 00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:27.960 this community had become. Because Laura's story didn't just affect 343 00:19:28.019 --> 00:19:31.029 Dean and his children, it reached all the way to 344 00:19:31.069 --> 00:19:34.650 a couple in Washington State who had no idea what 345 00:19:34.690 --> 00:19:38.289 they were getting into. Back in the opening moments of 346 00:19:38.329 --> 00:19:41.309 this episode, you heard about the night a house caught 347 00:19:41.369 --> 00:19:46.190 fire in Wisconsin. That house didn't belong to Laura. It 348 00:19:46.250 --> 00:19:50.079 belonged to Tom and Joanne. At the time, Tom and 349 00:19:50.119 --> 00:19:52.799 Joanne say they were living hundreds of miles away in 350 00:19:52.859 --> 00:19:57.690 Washington State. They had rented their Wisconsin home to Laura, intending, 351 00:19:57.789 --> 00:20:00.529 they say, to help out someone they knew and trusted. 352 00:20:01.369 --> 00:20:03.549 What neither of them knew at the time, they say, 353 00:20:03.650 --> 00:20:06.410 was that Laura had already begun building a new identity 354 00:20:06.569 --> 00:20:10.319 inside Liana Shanti's world. The name she was using at 355 00:20:10.359 --> 00:20:14.079 the time they met was Kihira, but their story starts 356 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:17.660 long before they ever heard that name. Tom and Joanne 357 00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:22.769 met in the early 1990s while both working at Microsoft 358 00:20:23.049 --> 00:20:24.269 in Washington State. 359 00:20:25.650 --> 00:20:27.390 We met in the mailroom. 360 00:20:28.349 --> 00:20:30.569 We were really good friends. A group of us would 361 00:20:30.609 --> 00:20:34.369 go to lunch together and stuff. And then one night 362 00:20:34.609 --> 00:20:38.720 they had moved out of our building. And I emailed 363 00:20:38.740 --> 00:20:41.079 them all and said, hey, we're all going to this 364 00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:46.619 bar on a Friday night called Waldo's. And Tom lived 365 00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:49.039 in a house of guys. And one of the guys 366 00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:52.950 had some friends from Idaho visiting. And he was talking 367 00:20:52.970 --> 00:20:55.509 with both of us. And he said, so how long 368 00:20:55.549 --> 00:20:58.329 have you guys been dating? And we went, well, we're 369 00:20:58.349 --> 00:20:58.890 not dating. 370 00:20:58.910 --> 00:21:00.269 Maybe it's not a bad idea. 371 00:21:00.289 --> 00:21:03.289 And we went, huh, that's not a bad idea. 372 00:21:03.809 --> 00:21:06.950 We left together, and I asked Joanne to give me 373 00:21:06.990 --> 00:21:07.890 a ride to my car. 374 00:21:07.910 --> 00:21:12.230 And we hopped in her car, and we were marooned 375 00:21:12.269 --> 00:21:12.470 for a. 376 00:21:12.450 --> 00:21:14.490 Little while, because one of her co-workers was making out 377 00:21:14.509 --> 00:21:16.250 with somebody, and we were spying. 378 00:21:17.589 --> 00:21:19.210 Well, we couldn't, like, turn the car off. 379 00:21:19.230 --> 00:21:21.049 When she finally drove me to my car, it was 380 00:21:21.109 --> 00:21:22.150 about four spots away. 381 00:21:22.289 --> 00:21:25.630 Yeah. And I was like, oh, for Pete's sake, you stinker. 382 00:21:25.650 --> 00:21:27.380 But later. 383 00:21:27.450 --> 00:21:30.440 Yeah. I proposed, and we had a big meal planned 384 00:21:30.460 --> 00:21:31.539 and everything in the apartment. 385 00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:36.160 So he said... We need to talk. Why are you 386 00:21:36.180 --> 00:21:38.849 choosing now? We're about to go meet all of our 387 00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:41.890 friends at Vito's. It's going to be fun. 388 00:21:41.930 --> 00:21:44.549 There are easier ways to get engaged, I've learned. 389 00:21:44.589 --> 00:21:44.950 Yeah. 390 00:21:45.650 --> 00:21:49.390 So I do like the walk of like, oh my God, 391 00:21:49.430 --> 00:21:51.269 he's just going to drop me off at my apartment. 392 00:21:51.329 --> 00:21:53.029 And then they're all going to go to Vito's and 393 00:21:53.049 --> 00:21:55.950 have fun. And he's going to say, this is it. 394 00:21:56.109 --> 00:21:59.980 And then he proposed. And I was like, what? Wait 395 00:22:00.019 --> 00:22:04.539 a minute. So I was totally discombobulated. And, you know, 396 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:07.359 and then I said, yes. And then he pulls up 397 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:11.160 the shades and all of our friends are standing down below, 398 00:22:11.180 --> 00:22:13.779 you know, from our window and they're all going. 399 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:19.119 Over the next decade, Tom and Joanne built a family 400 00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:23.220 life in Port Washington, Wisconsin, in a massive historic house. 401 00:22:23.980 --> 00:22:28.160