Speaker 1: Meaning a live man like this man letting butterfly flapping
Speaker 1: his wing.
Speaker 2: Dig down in the forest.
Speaker 3: Man, it gonna cause a tree fall, letting five thousand
Speaker 3: miles away.
Speaker 4: Man, nobody's seen nobody.
Speaker 5: You see.
Speaker 3: You don't need no man's luck.
Speaker 2: You call a little story and you got racked for
Speaker 2: like that. I'll win. Man, don't like a dang on
Speaker 2: the panel.
Speaker 1: Man, Man, you don't don't matter.
Speaker 6: Man all right, more goth Welcome back to Jay Burtonshaw.
Speaker 7: How you doing man, Hellotle getting jit nice to see again.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm glad to have you. I uh, I think
Speaker 6: this is roughly the pattern that has been going on
Speaker 6: for two or three years, which is that I assume
Speaker 6: that I have talked to you more recently. I check
Speaker 6: our DMS and see it has been exactly a year
Speaker 6: since we spoke last. So I'm really glad to have
Speaker 6: you on. I was recently watching something you put on
Speaker 6: on substack, just sort of your your year in review
Speaker 6: right for twenty twenty five. And as I said, you know,
Speaker 6: before we went live, I'm not able to, you know,
Speaker 6: consume as much media on what happens in the UK,
Speaker 6: just because it's not where I live. I don't have
Speaker 6: the context, but I rely on a few sources you
Speaker 6: included to understand what's going on. And you mentioned, you know,
Speaker 6: several kind of themes, right, what's going on in your country?
Speaker 6: And I guess I'll throw it to you. You know,
Speaker 6: we were talking to this before. You know what is
Speaker 6: going on? What are kind of the main themes of
Speaker 6: twenty twenty five because to be perfectly blunt man from
Speaker 6: the outside looking in, it's it's incredibly grim.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think.
Speaker 7: I've did like a year room review where I went
Speaker 7: through the articles of the air just to sort of
Speaker 7: recop of everything that had happened and things that I
Speaker 7: wrote about and to sort of see if those any
Speaker 7: kind of through lane.
Speaker 2: And it was there, really was.
Speaker 7: You can see the right at the beginning of the
Speaker 7: year when Elon Musk and Rupert Low and Hammer and
Speaker 7: tongues on the grooming gangs and things. But to get
Speaker 7: a real which sort of you know, annoyse the British
Speaker 7: establishment a lot because they take a dirty little secret.
Speaker 7: And I did an article that it's our I mean,
Speaker 7: I've been seeing for a long time and I've been
Speaker 7: comparing our situation to sort of the Soviet Union and
Speaker 7: the the the grooming gang issues is kind of like
Speaker 7: the reactor five of Chernobyl. It's it's this sort of
Speaker 7: massive disaster, catastrophic that that, and you see all the
Speaker 7: different layers of what's gone wrong is kind of encapsulated
Speaker 7: with that with that one scandal from top to bottom.
Speaker 7: You see like as if like the term mats have
Speaker 7: just Hollywood out of woodn't been all of it. What's
Speaker 7: wrong with Britain is encapsulated that. And then I did
Speaker 7: another one which is about the Borrows Wave and the
Speaker 7: effects of the Borrows Wave on the country, and I
Speaker 7: think a lot of the panic and the trauma was
Speaker 7: the way people when people discuss mass immigration in Britain
Speaker 7: on the right, you often hear that a quote from
Speaker 7: a Tony Blair speechwriter called Andrew Neila who he said
Speaker 7: that they and was to rub the right nose and
Speaker 7: diversity and what he meant was to change the demographics,
Speaker 7: to change so the politics would have to change it
Speaker 7: to do it deliberately. And I think what happened with
Speaker 7: Boris Johnson and the millions that he led in where
Speaker 7: you get this famous graph where the line just screams up,
Speaker 7: was it's it's insane. And I think what actually happened
Speaker 7: was that the center right Tory Party rubbed the left
Speaker 7: knows and diversity. And what I mean is their sort
Speaker 7: of view, their values and their principles beforehand had been
Speaker 7: in the abstract because there's so many places in Britain
Speaker 7: still hadn't been touched by diversity. And after the Borrows
Speaker 7: wave that's they have, especially in England. You can go
Speaker 7: to some far from places in Scotland or Wales, Northern Ireland,
Speaker 7: but basically it's everywhere now and all of a sudden
Speaker 7: this year in particular, you began to see more and
Speaker 7: more not just the grooming gangs which flared up again
Speaker 7: and the issues around that, but sort of random violence
Speaker 7: and especially from the illegal immigrants who's been housed in hotels,
Speaker 7: and sort of girls and.
Speaker 2: Women being raped and actually abused and.
Speaker 7: Casual random violence. And I think what this en In particular,
Speaker 7: we saw the rise of this meme which it began
Speaker 7: on Twitter by Crumbler Grouply or whatever he's called, where
Speaker 7: they call it the UK and they mean like why ok, why,
Speaker 7: which I can get into that because it is interesting
Speaker 7: and so something was clearly happening and there was a
Speaker 7: sense that were it's of de territorialization and the aesthetics
Speaker 7: of it. That's what that amounts to, really, and all
Speaker 7: of a sudden you saw that what the UK reflects
Speaker 7: and is a reality of twenty twenty five. Of course
Speaker 7: it's been coming for a while, which is squalid and
Speaker 7: unpleasant and far far away from the kind of pr
Speaker 7: multicultural propaganda that we used to get. This is why
Speaker 7: I say it's almost like the left's face got rubed
Speaker 7: in diversity, because it's like, well, we're in it now.
Speaker 7: I mean, it's important to say as well, like in
Speaker 7: the two thousands before Brexit, most of our immigration was
Speaker 7: coming from the European Union, so they were just other
Speaker 7: Europeans recent Europeans polls, but also people from France or Holland,
Speaker 7: and so they had that kind of cushion. But after
Speaker 7: and especially after the Boris with they just came in
Speaker 7: from everywhere on Earth like we've never seen before. And
Speaker 7: so for the first time those values and principles are
Speaker 7: manifested in the real world. And then alongside that, compounding
Speaker 7: that kind of feeling of just everything being decredit everything
Speaker 7: being a bit shit, is the economic issues, which are
Speaker 7: facing and shops closing, boarded up shops, and so you
Speaker 7: get this strange thing with this UK aesthetics they call it,
Speaker 7: where you'll have late's here a Muslim woman standing in
Speaker 7: like a sort of fishing village in well Wheels, talking
Speaker 7: about how well she is. All of this kind of thing.
Speaker 7: You'll get like a car crashed into a vape shop
Speaker 7: with a Turkish barbers next door, and all of this,
Speaker 7: and it alls. It all seems weird and alien and
Speaker 7: and it's as if like the country has just been
Speaker 7: transformed into something else with which it which it largely has,
Speaker 7: and the normal people recognize this as well. And this
Speaker 7: is what we were talking about just before we went live, where.
Speaker 2: You get this.
Speaker 7: On top of all of that, you've got this kind
Speaker 7: of suffocating surveillance state and the bureaucracy that goes with it.
Speaker 2: So it's just it just could.
Speaker 7: Sort of ticks so many boxes of this state of dystopia.
Speaker 7: And one of the things about the sort of the
Speaker 7: mode that we're in is there's a denial of it.
Speaker 7: You know, in the past, and I've written some things
Speaker 7: about this to the Myra Hindley sort of murders and
Speaker 7: things on substack and how that relates today. But if
Speaker 7: you go in the past, for example, if you go
Speaker 7: into a different era of Britain, British history to take
Speaker 7: for example, when Thatcher was closing heavy industry down like
Speaker 7: the coal mines in the nineteen eighties, you had protests,
Speaker 7: you had unrest. There was at least some kind of
Speaker 7: highbrow commentary on that. There was a discussion and people
Speaker 7: could sort of philosophize over it and get sort of
Speaker 7: fury cell takes in about what was happening to the country.
Speaker 7: But because of the nature of they say political correctness
Speaker 7: and where we are now, it's almost taboo for that.
Speaker 7: So you'll find people writing about it on substock or twila.
Speaker 7: But the conversation that we should be having, we can't.
Speaker 7: And of course everybody's scared that they're going to get fired.
Speaker 7: Or on top of all of that, it's now legendary
Speaker 7: the hate speech laws and people going to jail for
Speaker 7: tweets and things in Britain, and all of this comes
Speaker 7: from a place I think of profound insecurity of the
Speaker 7: managerial state itself.
Speaker 6: Well, I'm glad you you mentioned the kind of analogy
Speaker 6: to the late Soviet Union because there's there's recently been
Speaker 6: a case where a man has been jailed for I
Speaker 6: don't remem exactly how long, a truly ludicrous amount of time, regardless,
Speaker 6: for sending anti immigration tweets. And you dig a layer
Speaker 6: down and you find out that these tweets were viewed
Speaker 6: by thirty people. You don't have to be criminally online
Speaker 6: to realize criminally terminally online to realize that thirty views
Speaker 6: on Twitter is basically nothing. That's not even likes, it's
Speaker 6: just someone scrolled past it. And he's been sentenced for
Speaker 6: these anti immigration sentiments. And we find out, you know,
Speaker 6: as the Daily Mail called him right a deranged loaner.
Speaker 6: We find out that he was basically turned in by
Speaker 6: his brother in law who didn't like it. So we
Speaker 6: really have to escalate it to the point of East Germany,
Speaker 6: where effectively you're turning people in to avenge your sort
Speaker 6: of personal slights based on these laws. And the complete
Speaker 6: and total denial around this issue I think is interesting
Speaker 6: as well, because it's almost as if they've they've given
Speaker 6: up on any sort of attempt at legitimacy. They're simply
Speaker 6: going to freeze out the conversation. We're not going to
Speaker 6: address it. We're not going to talk about it. It
Speaker 6: just vacated that space, and seemingly in addition to vacating it,
Speaker 6: they're determined to salt the earth make it illegal to
Speaker 6: discuss it at all. And in my mind, that's almost unprecedented, right,
Speaker 6: the idea that simply this apparent fact, at these horrific crimes,
Speaker 6: this sort of replacement level migration is unassailable. You cannot
Speaker 6: talk about it. You mentioned your substack. This is sort
Speaker 6: of how I became aware of it, because you'd posted
Speaker 6: something there that basically said that your profile on subsack
Speaker 6: was blocked within your own nation. You needed to verify
Speaker 6: your account, right, send the government a photo of your
Speaker 6: face or send a third party. But we all know
Speaker 6: what's happening there. Enter into this sort of like biometric
Speaker 6: security apparatus in order to read things, and we all understand,
Speaker 6: of course, what has done with that information. It is
Speaker 6: there to prosecute you, It is there to enforce these
Speaker 6: sort of draconian laws.
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Speaker 6: So I'm curious what do you make of that crisis
Speaker 6: of legitimacy, the fact that they're simply not contesting the field.
Speaker 6: Even they're just saying it's off limits. There's not even
Speaker 6: really a counter argument anymore.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think there's there's a genuine crisis for the
Speaker 7: Something strange happened with the layback government.
Speaker 2: And it does it.
Speaker 7: I think it kind of goes to the Borrow's way
Speaker 7: as well. But there's a there is a crisis of legitimacy,
Speaker 7: and it's not entirely the labor Government's fault. It's it's
Speaker 7: the fault of the Conservative Party for what they did.
Speaker 7: I mean, so much of the legislation.
Speaker 2: I know, it's it's.
Speaker 7: Popular, it's popular on the British right, it's popular American right,
Speaker 7: where they think of Kostarma as being this particularly kind
Speaker 7: of brutal communist and he is like that, he's utterly humorous.
Speaker 7: But you know, all the laws on the legislation was
Speaker 7: already was already baked into the system. The thing which
Speaker 7: I've got to now put my sort of show my
Speaker 7: face that's going to come in everywhere. I think that's
Speaker 7: the Online Harms Bill, And originally it's all part of
Speaker 7: this surveillance state which is getting ruled.
Speaker 2: Really quickly now.
Speaker 7: I mean, I remember back five years ago, four years ago,
Speaker 7: I was doing visy video essays on all of this
Speaker 7: stuff and it didn't seem to go anywhere. But now
Speaker 7: it's actually coming in. We're getting digital ds. I mean,
Speaker 7: on the legitimacy thing, Labor got into power on there
Speaker 7: was nothing said about digital ds anywhere, and they just
Speaker 7: sprang so it wasn't nobody voted for it, it wasn't
Speaker 7: in their manifesto, and they've just rammed it through. You
Speaker 7: get half a million people or whatever it was, saying
Speaker 7: a petition saying we want to have this gone over
Speaker 7: our again.
Speaker 2: But not just they'll just ram it through.
Speaker 7: And this combined with masses and masses of facial recognition technology,
Speaker 7: and then on top of that you've got the online harms.
Speaker 7: But and all of this is going to link up.
Speaker 7: I mean, when I try to describe this, I say,
Speaker 7: it's a bit like the end of and Or where
Speaker 7: you see them building the death Star and all of
Speaker 7: the rivets. It's just mis missing that kind of central
Speaker 7: thing that slots into the middle, that dish thing. And
Speaker 7: that's what the digital ID will be. Everything is being
Speaker 7: made deliberately awkward and troublesome to create the problems that
Speaker 7: the digital ID can solve. So in the future I
Speaker 7: will probably just link up my digital ID to my
Speaker 7: online persona and then I'll bypass that issue on substack.
Speaker 7: But it it is like a third party. So the
Speaker 7: state will I mean in a way, because the state
Speaker 7: kind of a quango called Who Not Hate sort of
Speaker 7: carried out a surveillance operation on me earlier this year
Speaker 7: and they got me. They found out who I was
Speaker 7: after all these years they did this terrible hit piece
Speaker 7: on me. So this in a way for me, it's
Speaker 7: too late. The state knows who I am. It's But
Speaker 7: what it means is that in the future everybody will
Speaker 7: be docs. I just already am and all of this
Speaker 7: is where there's you're not going to have online anonymity.
Speaker 7: It's it's dead. It's a dead duck. And so you
Speaker 7: just come across this stuff in your face all of
Speaker 7: the time. You know it's and you know, you don't
Speaker 7: know where it's going to go on the.
Speaker 2: Back end or anything.
Speaker 7: But to get back to the just the issue with
Speaker 7: the labor government, I do really like the fact that
Speaker 7: the Americans, because like Trump and jd. Vance and these
Speaker 7: people have been launching broadside against the British government because
Speaker 7: I know, like it's it's all the rage now for
Speaker 7: people to say, well, you know, criticized Donald Trump, or
Speaker 7: he's not getting this, he's not getting that, doing that,
Speaker 7: that that's for you you fellas in America. That that's
Speaker 7: like a sort of internal American thing just in terms
Speaker 7: of having that kind of voice put pressure on the
Speaker 7: on the British government and shine a torch on them
Speaker 7: and say what the hell are you doing what is
Speaker 7: going on here that I'm not going to be such
Speaker 7: a kind of spurg We we don't have the luxury
Speaker 7: of of snubbing on us.
Speaker 2: Is that that kind of thing?
Speaker 7: We need all the help we can get here. But
Speaker 7: the issue with what labor have inherited was sort of
Speaker 7: baked in, and I think they came in wanted to
Speaker 7: be just a leftist standard of course, sort of sent
Speaker 7: a left party. But the state of the country is
Speaker 7: a tinder box. It's in such a bad state that
Speaker 7: they've actually had to do all kinds of schizophrenic moves.
Speaker 7: So the immigration this year is coming down quite drastically.
Speaker 2: Actually, it's they're not.
Speaker 7: The last figures have thought saw was they're on track
Speaker 7: for like six hundred thousand fewer immigrants than what we
Speaker 7: got last year. That they're talking tough on all kinds
Speaker 7: of things. Now this is people will say this is
Speaker 7: because we form with Nigel Farage are coming in from
Speaker 7: the right and putting pressure on them, and it is.
Speaker 7: It is part of that.
Speaker 2: But I think the deeper issue is that you have
Speaker 2: to rule. You can't just be.
Speaker 7: A sadistic sort of a bunch of gangstars who torment
Speaker 7: and sort of persecute people and rub them up the
Speaker 7: wrong way for nothing. There comes that gets you get
Speaker 7: those certain point where the legitimacy of the state is
Speaker 7: becoming a real problem. We've had hundreds of thousands of
Speaker 7: people leaving the country, this kind of thing, and so
Speaker 7: you get this kind of thing where labor have to
Speaker 7: lurch quite far right just because of the basic infrastructure
Speaker 7: of the country, just because the country. I mean, I
Speaker 7: did a video on this a while ago on the
Speaker 7: demographics that it's possible we are a failed state and
Speaker 7: with the white British are still the majority, because people
Speaker 7: didn't seem to factor that in when when you get
Speaker 7: these get these numbers will be a minority by twenty
Speaker 7: fifty or twenty sixty or whatever. It was never the
Speaker 7: social factors of that along the way weren't factored in
Speaker 7: at all.
Speaker 6: Yeah, several several things there to your point about you know,
Speaker 6: different takes on on Trump. This is something that always
Speaker 6: frustrates me. Uh, you're talking with nationalists or right wingers,
Speaker 6: which is there's sort of this kind of pie in
Speaker 6: the sky version of of nationalism, which is that you know,
Speaker 6: nationalism all goes one direction, and I understand it right.
Speaker 6: You know, all of us are sort of fighting against
Speaker 6: this sort of you know, globalist block. I get that,
Speaker 6: but there are many cases in which you know, your
Speaker 6: natural or national interest in mind might be at opposite ends.
Speaker 6: And look, I'm not even saying Trump is a perfect
Speaker 6: example of that. You know, Ukraine is perhaps an even
Speaker 6: better one. You know, I understand why the you know,
Speaker 6: the the Nordic guys are all you know, very much
Speaker 6: pro you know, fighting Russia. It makes good sense, whereas
Speaker 6: in my position it's like, well, to be honest, man,
Speaker 6: I don't want to be involved in it. Uh just
Speaker 6: a brief aside there, but uh yeah, I think that
Speaker 6: the the problem of you know, ruling of simply you know,
Speaker 6: the state continuing to function. It's crazy to see the decline.
Speaker 6: So I've been on kind of a crusade against the
Speaker 6: you know, the center right in America. You know, they're
Speaker 6: they're attacking what they call either the woke right or
Speaker 6: the new right. And there are two lines of attack.
Speaker 6: One which is pretty easy to dismiss is you are
Speaker 6: all actually Marxists. You are woke, you are the woke right.
Speaker 6: You can sort of dismiss that one out of hand.
Speaker 6: But another one. And you see this in kind of
Speaker 6: the legacy press and people like David French. Is this
Speaker 6: idea that oh, you're simply blinded by sort of artificial
Speaker 6: nostalgia for a world that never existed. Things have always
Speaker 6: been like this. You know, it's not really bad, things
Speaker 6: aren't really in crisis. And obviously it's a completely disingenuous
Speaker 6: argument because you know, you look to a country like yours,
Speaker 6: which you're sure there were problems in the nineties, there
Speaker 6: were problems in the eighties. We mentioned in the industrialization.
Speaker 6: You know, all of these are very real crises. But
Speaker 6: you mentioned earlier and I can't remember her name that
Speaker 6: you know, the sort of prominent murderers, you know, this
Speaker 6: woman who sort of became the you know, the talk
Speaker 6: of the town right for killing, and it almost seems
Speaker 6: quine in comparison with you know, modern violence. Right Axel
Speaker 6: Rubacabana is one example, but you know there are dozens more.
Speaker 6: And you see that and you're like, well, okay, like that,
Speaker 6: we've lost several things there. One, we've lost a little
Speaker 6: bit like an absolute amount of immediate security. How likely
Speaker 6: are you to be killed? But also you've lost a
Speaker 6: culture where people could be unified in opposition to some
Speaker 6: sort of savage attack, right, that that was seen universally
Speaker 6: as something that was notable enough to talk about and
Speaker 6: also to morally condemn. There's sort of a cultural unity
Speaker 6: there that has been lost. It's the idea that this
Speaker 6: is simply you know, disingenuous complaints from the new right,
Speaker 6: whatever you want to call it, is absurd, right. Similarly,
Speaker 6: in our case, I think that the Charlie Kirk assassination
Speaker 6: is one of the biggest stories of the last year
Speaker 6: because obviously the event is significant. A man was murdered graphically,
Speaker 6: you know, for the whole world to see, but the
Speaker 6: reaction to it, both the failure to capitalize or to
Speaker 6: address this issue from the center right and also effectively
Speaker 6: the laughing scorn from the left that oh, you know,
Speaker 6: that violence was was ultimately legitimate. They're like, okay, well,
Speaker 6: America is perhaps not a failed state, you know, it's
Speaker 6: not Venezuela or South Africa, but something very definitely has
Speaker 6: been lost there, some sort of cultural cohesion that in
Speaker 6: the previous era most people would feel as if this
Speaker 6: sort of event is life altering, right. It was something
Speaker 6: that you know, the Kennedy assassination. Obviously that's a president,
Speaker 6: but that was a where were you moment? You know,
Speaker 6: the other political assassinations as well well, And to see
Speaker 6: that sort of pulled into you know, kind of the
Speaker 6: culture where it's like, okay, well we've lost a unified
Speaker 6: culture in any way, and look like a large part
Speaker 6: of that is migration. New arrivals simply do not have
Speaker 6: the same kind of cultural attitudes that you or I do.
Speaker 6: But another part of it is that, like the realm
Speaker 6: of politics has expanded to such a degree that, you know,
Speaker 6: things that were previously off limits in a more homogeneous
Speaker 6: culture are now simply part of you know, the daily grind.
Speaker 6: And in much the same way, I see the same
Speaker 6: thing happening to these you know, horrific migrant crimes.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I've did quite a lengthy article on
Speaker 7: I call it the Evil Past and Present. And it
Speaker 7: began because I saw like a shit live on Twitter
Speaker 7: put how a picture of Maira Hindley. Now, I'll just
Speaker 7: explain a little bit. In the nineteen sixties, there was
Speaker 7: a couple called Ian Brady and Myra Hindley who murdered
Speaker 7: and abused children and buried them in the Yorkshire was
Speaker 7: and they took those videos that were it was. It
Speaker 7: was really grotesque and horrible and the woman. Now people
Speaker 7: can kind of absorb and understand that Ian Brady, he
Speaker 7: was the motivating factor behind it. And what's really got
Speaker 7: people was that there was a woman involved. And there's
Speaker 7: a famous smoke shot of the two of them together.
Speaker 7: It's in black and white and she's got this so
Speaker 7: blonde peroxide hair. The Wars murders. If you want to
Speaker 7: see it, I've got on the article as well. And
Speaker 7: one of that image of Meira Hindley became a kind
Speaker 7: of something in British folklore, almost as an object of evil.
Speaker 7: She became this demonic presence within the collective psychology of
Speaker 7: the culture and so to how and then there was
Speaker 7: this person said, basically, you've always had these murderers, and
Speaker 7: I thought that was very interesting because the mug shot.
Speaker 7: It always comes down to the mug shot, and the
Speaker 7: mug shots that the famous ones. Now you'll see of
Speaker 7: these grooming gang sort of perpetrate as where you'll have
Speaker 7: sort of five or six Pakistani faces all lined up together,
Speaker 7: but you'll also have the actual rule of Kabana one
Speaker 7: where he just looks wild and feral, and what interested
Speaker 7: in me was that it doesn't have the same effect,
Speaker 7: It doesn't embed itself in the culture the way that
Speaker 7: Maira Hindley did. And it took me down a bit
Speaker 7: of a rabbit hole and I discovered.
Speaker 3: That in.
Speaker 7: I mean, even when she was alive. She died in
Speaker 7: two thousand and two or two thousand and three, but
Speaker 7: even when she was alive, that image was called iconic,
Speaker 7: which but it was an icon of evil, and we
Speaker 7: all understood it wasn't political in any way, and we
Speaker 7: didn't have the degree of managerial state where they kind
Speaker 7: of said, well, she had a rough childhood or this
Speaker 7: or that the other, and so you had this element
Speaker 7: where almost like in a village where a woman was
Speaker 7: accused of being a witch and she was kind of
Speaker 7: lashed out of town and she became this kind of
Speaker 7: she's evil, get her out to be spiritually purged from
Speaker 7: the inn group, and there was really an element of that,
Speaker 7: and that image of her was just regurgitated in British
Speaker 7: culture forever. And in the nineteen nineties somebody cottoned onto
Speaker 7: this and this modern artist put together like a big
Speaker 7: montage of Meira Hindley's the image of her the mug
Speaker 7: shot you using the hands of small children, and people
Speaker 7: were absolutely outraged, and he the image got damaged when
Speaker 7: it was in an art gallery, but it was this
Speaker 7: kind of what he was actually getting at was this
Speaker 7: sort of borderardium, sort of commentary on images replicating images,
Speaker 7: because the actual real woman of Maira Hindley by this time,
Speaker 7: she was just this kind of frail, elderly depressive in
Speaker 7: a jail cell, but her image kind of lingered on
Speaker 7: in the cultural psyche and she became something more, and
Speaker 7: he was trying to sort of touch on that the
Speaker 7: meaning of signs and symbols and kind of hyper realism.
Speaker 7: And what's fascinating is that the mog shots that we
Speaker 7: get now, the actual banner or the Pakistani grooming gangs
Speaker 7: or whatever, they just don't have any of that, because
Speaker 7: when you go to say the nineteen sixties, Britain was
Speaker 7: still ninety eight percent Native and when you look at
Speaker 7: my Raindley, you've got one of your own staring back
Speaker 7: at you. That's why it became this kind of symbolic
Speaker 7: act of purging the witch, get this sick demon out,
Speaker 7: get her out of the group. But when you've got
Speaker 7: this sort of when actually Lucabana staring back at you,
Speaker 7: it isn't even part of your in group, you will
Speaker 7: you kind of it becomes political in a way. It's
Speaker 7: more of a political act because you think, well, he's
Speaker 7: here because of political decisions, and he isn't of the
Speaker 7: in group, And so instead of having almost like this
Speaker 7: metaphysical evil all of a sudden, it's it's something close
Speaker 7: that to sort of inter ethnic warfare. But of course,
Speaker 7: because of the lies that the society's built on, you
Speaker 7: can't even acknowledge that. You can't have that conversation, so
Speaker 7: you're just left with this sort of barrenness, this kind
Speaker 7: of abyss where it's just this squalid, depressing.
Speaker 2: Reality that you inhabit. Now you don't even.
Speaker 7: Get that catharsis of lashing the witch out of the village,
Speaker 7: or looking back at part of your group gone horribly
Speaker 7: horribly wrong and become sick and poison because they were
Speaker 7: never you in the first place. It's the same with
Speaker 7: the Pakistani mok shots.
Speaker 2: It's just the other.
Speaker 7: It's just this wall of otherness looking back at you.
Speaker 7: And this is kind of baked in across the UK
Speaker 7: now and it gives this kind of gloom over everything,
Speaker 7: this acknowledgment of it, but also the fact that you
Speaker 7: aren't even allowed to sort of intellectually investigated.
Speaker 2: We're all create a.
Speaker 7: Cultural sort of movement around it and discuss it honestly,
Speaker 7: as we have done with these things in the past.
Speaker 7: I mean the fact that he made that postmodern kind
Speaker 7: of badly advised I would say artwork of Maira Hindley's face.
Speaker 7: He was at least trying to comment on her place
Speaker 7: and that image in British culture. But you couldn't do
Speaker 7: that with actually Rukbana because it would be seen as
Speaker 7: I mean, they prefer that you just don't see any
Speaker 7: of it. I mean just there. So there was a
Speaker 7: nine year old girl stabbed to death in Somerset somewhere,
Speaker 7: which is quite a nice part of England.
Speaker 2: It's the Shias.
Speaker 7: And it was a fifteen year old boy who did it,
Speaker 7: but we don't have any other details. So here you
Speaker 7: come here here it is well, so now the BBC
Speaker 7: will close the replies. You're not given anything more to
Speaker 7: go on because of legal reasons, and everybody suspects what
Speaker 7: they don't know, and probably in a few years we
Speaker 7: will get to know and this is this is just
Speaker 7: the misery of it, and the misery of where we
Speaker 7: are culturally spiritually. It's it's rotten, and it's it's it's
Speaker 7: hollowed out and it's it's it kind of consumes everything.
Speaker 7: It's difficult to step outside of it. It's why I
Speaker 7: just focus almost entirely on on Britain these days.
Speaker 6: I recently rewatched uh, the original Blade Runner film, uh,
Speaker 6: and I was really struck by several things about it,
Speaker 6: which is one, the Blade Runner is sort of the
Speaker 6: future that came to pass. Obviously, you have the look
Speaker 6: of it, right, this kind of sort of dystopian, you know,
Speaker 6: blend of all cultures, kind of peat like layered on
Speaker 6: top of this pre existing, previously existing world. Right you
Speaker 6: have you know the kind of old you know, Victorian era,
Speaker 6: you know, apartment buildings, you know, run down, you know,
Speaker 6: covered in neon signs for you know, companies, you know,
Speaker 6: kind of broadcasting vice everywhere, which you know you see
Speaker 6: obviously in America in places like you know, any urban center,
Speaker 6: but you know, in kind of an echo of that
Speaker 6: in the UK aesthetic. But also to me, I think
Speaker 6: it's interesting because you know, the whole idea of the replicants, right,
Speaker 6: these these sort of artificial people created as slaves, rights,
Speaker 6: as cheap labor, wreaking havoc. You know, it has very
Speaker 6: much been you know, the story of you know, the
Speaker 6: twenty first century in both our countries. One of the
Speaker 6: biggest stories in America over the last year, and I've
Speaker 6: got a trucker on to talk about this has been
Speaker 6: obviously in a proliferation of migrant truckers. You know, this
Speaker 6: incredibly dangerous job. You know, you're driving something that's sixty
Speaker 6: thousand pounds on a highway with normal cars, which you know,
Speaker 6: previously was the realm of be honest, working class white guys.
Speaker 6: It was a good way to make money. You know,
Speaker 6: you could with a relatively small amount of capital, you know,
Speaker 6: put yourself in a position where you're making good money.
Speaker 6: And that needed to be done away with, that needed
Speaker 6: to be replaced. We needed to do it cheaper, and
Speaker 6: so we imported these sort of fake citizens in many cases, right,
Speaker 6: these sort of like replicants, if you can imagine, and
Speaker 6: it's unleashed havoc. Right, there have been a number of,
Speaker 6: you know, horrific videos of these you know, death machines,
Speaker 6: you know, just running through people, you know, blowing away,
Speaker 6: you know, a family in a sedan. And the most
Speaker 6: iconic one, I think is that you know that crash
Speaker 6: from Florida where these two Indian guys are in the
Speaker 6: you know, the front seat and they just you know,
Speaker 6: whip into a little access point which you know, cars
Speaker 6: aren't supposed to go in let alone. You know, a
Speaker 6: semi truck across the lane of traffic and you kill
Speaker 6: a family of four, and in much the same way, right,
Speaker 6: you see these this is something that's always happened. There
Speaker 6: always been accidents. These are dangerous things. You know. You
Speaker 6: might have a guy from West Virginia, you know, high
Speaker 6: on meth and he you know, does the same thing.
Speaker 6: But it is different when it is someone who has
Speaker 6: basically been brought here in the last six months, right,
Speaker 6: and in order to you know, grease the wheels of
Speaker 6: this managerial system. Those four people. There are many other examples,
Speaker 6: you know, I'm sure you don't need me to remind
Speaker 6: you have been sacrificed on that altar. And again, right,
Speaker 6: it's that same sort of thing like this, We've always
Speaker 6: had violence, and look, America has always been a violent country,
Speaker 6: there's no two ways about it. But this new, this
Speaker 6: new sort of crime, and we've seen with these truckers,
Speaker 6: let alone the kind of you know, massive fraud that
Speaker 6: we've seen in places like Minnesota. It's like all of
Speaker 6: these war choices, this did not have to happen. And
Speaker 6: what we've seen, and this is I think an origin
Speaker 6: a lot of the you know, a lot of the
Speaker 6: annoyance with the Trump administration in the US is that
Speaker 6: you know, he's he's very comfortable talking about, you know,
Speaker 6: the illegal immigration. It's something that's effectively ceased to be
Speaker 6: a problem. You know, these mass deportations are to some
Speaker 6: degree occurring, and that's something to be thankful for. But
Speaker 6: that need for the for the system to you know,
Speaker 6: have cheap labor, that need for the system to keep
Speaker 6: expanding forever, well, that comes first, and so we'll replace
Speaker 6: you another way, will replace you legally. You know, we've
Speaker 6: seen that with you know, these sort of high skill
Speaker 6: visas quote unquote, you know, all of these that comes
Speaker 6: before anything else, and these casualties seemingly are completely and
Speaker 6: totally acceptable, you know, to to serve that end.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, our I think our version of that
Speaker 7: beside the the the ulder stuff like the grooming gangs,
Speaker 7: which is still going on. Well, the thing for this, yeah,
Speaker 7: has been the the like the asylum seeker things, particularly
Speaker 7: men from Afghanistan or I think there was like four
Speaker 7: cases last week where they were raved. And you see
Speaker 7: these stories, I know, I realized that this is like
Speaker 7: a thoroughly sort of depressed and subject all of what
Speaker 7: we're talking about. That that's just the way it is
Speaker 7: in in Britain. That's that's the you know it, this
Speaker 7: is sadly and I lament that as well. I like,
Speaker 7: I don't want that you get this strange thing like
Speaker 7: the girl that I saw today on X this story
Speaker 7: where the girl was a nine year old girl was
Speaker 7: stabbed as death. And it gets back to what I
Speaker 7: was saying earlier, where this once upon a time that
Speaker 7: would have been a big thing, and now it just
Speaker 7: sort of drifts down your your news feed.
Speaker 2: It's people will.
Speaker 7: Swipe past it on their phones and I thought, I thought,
Speaker 7: I thought, is this is this just how it gets normalized?
Speaker 9: Now?
Speaker 2: Is this? Is this not enough? When is it?
Speaker 7: Does it have to be more than one?
Speaker 2: Does it?
Speaker 7: And it just seems to is this is this just
Speaker 7: like the collapse. Now is this because there's no signs
Speaker 7: of this getting any better, and the state just is
Speaker 7: a completely blindsided by all of this. I mean, I
Speaker 7: try to order for for the garden and some pruners
Speaker 7: on eb to to prune a planet a color of
Speaker 7: raspberry bushes, and so I thought, I haven't got any
Speaker 7: prune as I'm gonna at the end of the season,
Speaker 7: and I found out that I couldn't actually, I couldn't
Speaker 7: actually order them online. And you get these things now
Speaker 7: where you get knaves are coming out now in London
Speaker 7: and they've got rounded tips on them, and so people
Speaker 7: can't eat basically because it's a weapon, but for some reason,
Speaker 7: like a set of gardening like prunas, handheld prunas for
Speaker 7: you to clip branches, it's it's sharp and you could
Speaker 7: I mean, it's it's so basically the state has decided
Speaker 7: that you just can't buy them online anymore, in the
Speaker 7: same way that you have to show your face to
Speaker 7: access the messages on substack. And so you see these
Speaker 7: pathetic and stupid attempts to hold the hold the line
Speaker 7: against the tide, rather than addressing the core issues and
Speaker 7: the stuff of the asylum seekers. There was a story
Speaker 7: this year where they've been putting them up in hotels,
Speaker 7: which is bad enough. They crossed the channel on boats
Speaker 7: and they put them up in hotels and in Epping
Speaker 7: this year they protested against the establishment of such a
Speaker 7: hotel and they was brushed down. They were called for right,
Speaker 7: they were called extremists, and then a local girl was
Speaker 7: sexually abused. Now I'm not sure if you I'm not
Speaker 7: sure the extent of that, then I have to be
Speaker 7: careful what I say about these things because not allowed. Again,
Speaker 7: you just walk around eggshells all of the time, so
Speaker 7: I could be construed as spreading misinformation. There's a whole
Speaker 7: other thing to do with, like where how we exist
Speaker 7: in England now where everybody has to speak like a lawyer,
Speaker 7: because you've always got to have a get out, you've
Speaker 7: always got to have applausible deniability, or you can't put
Speaker 7: in all groups. You'll have to say it mainly or
Speaker 7: instead of just talking about a group and this kind
Speaker 7: of thing. But anyway, they then covered that up the
Speaker 7: newspaper and the government put like a block on that
Speaker 7: where it was covered up and so the people have
Speaker 7: already protested against it. They were proven to be correct,
Speaker 7: and then that was the whole what they were scared
Speaker 7: of happened that was covered up. They then launched an
Speaker 7: appeal and it was to say that the hotel would
Speaker 7: in fact be closed down. The government in London then
Speaker 7: intervened and said no, this the Supreme Court I think
Speaker 7: it was, which is just this blair right nonsense, said no,
Speaker 7: actually it will stay open. And then the person who
Speaker 7: actually was another person was touched the girl did something
Speaker 7: wrong like that, he actually wandered away, if you remember,
Speaker 7: it was everywhere he escaped. He escaped and he was
Speaker 7: just wondering. He was Ethiopian and he was just wandering
Speaker 7: around for days on end.
Speaker 3: And.
Speaker 7: You just think it's it's there's this kind of thing
Speaker 7: that we talk about, whether it's incompetence or malice. Is
Speaker 7: this kind of meme that goes around in Britain. And
Speaker 7: because the argument will be somebody like my dad, for example,
Speaker 7: on friends would say the government are useless. They are
Speaker 7: absolutely useless. They just don't know what they're doing. And
Speaker 7: you think, after a certain amount of time you can't
Speaker 7: just say it's useless anymore. It gets to a point
Speaker 7: where you have to say world on a second. This
Speaker 7: is when it's always I mean, one of the things
Speaker 7: that I say is that if it was just incompetence,
Speaker 7: it would going out of way, it would favor us
Speaker 7: sometimes even if just by random chance. But that never happens,
Speaker 7: and so the only conclusion you can draw is that
Speaker 7: they are malicious. They are actually malicious. Now, having said that,
Speaker 7: you do also have total incompetence baked into this, this
Speaker 7: system of orders and magnitudes that would have just been
Speaker 7: maind boggling to British people thirty or forty years.
Speaker 2: They would not comprehend it.
Speaker 6: I mean, to that point, Morgreth, We're three or four
Speaker 6: days into the investigation of this shooting it Brown which
Speaker 6: which is a large university in the middle of you know,
Speaker 6: a progressive city, and seemingly there was some sort of
Speaker 6: political motive that this girl killed. One of two was,
Speaker 6: you know, the leader of a conservative group who was
Speaker 6: devoutly religious, seems and despite all of this state surveillance apparatus,
Speaker 6: we have a photo of a person of interest, but
Speaker 6: no arrest has been made seemingly. You know, when when
Speaker 6: the state is is truly angered, right, when they're actually
Speaker 6: interested in bringing someone to justice as we saw, you know,
Speaker 6: post jan six. Well, they can make arrests almost immediately.
Speaker 6: You know, they can fence your phone and find you
Speaker 6: no matter where you run or even you know, as
Speaker 6: we saw under Biden, right, this eighty some year old
Speaker 6: woman who is you know, protesting in front of an
Speaker 6: abortion clinic, right holding up a sign that says you
Speaker 6: don't kill your baby, and she goes to jail. We
Speaker 6: can find her, of course, But again to your point,
Speaker 6: you'd assume, you know, if this wasn't competence, there'd be
Speaker 6: sort of a random walk and you know, maybe not
Speaker 6: half the time, but at least some of the time
Speaker 6: it would go your way. And when that is not
Speaker 6: the case, the next logical question is, well, why it
Speaker 6: seemingly when you want to you can get things done
Speaker 6: very quickly. You can bring down this sort of harsh
Speaker 6: violence as we saw, you know, to the protesters and
Speaker 6: epic right, people can be thrown in jail, We can
Speaker 6: have courts running around the clock to make sure these people,
Speaker 6: you know, receive the state's idea of justice. But this,
Speaker 6: this really comes down to the question, and this is
Speaker 6: something that's come up in you know, American discourse as well,
Speaker 6: which is to be honest, like, what is the point
Speaker 6: of the country here? Why does this exist? And you know,
Speaker 6: you or I I have the idea that, well, it
Speaker 6: is a place for a people. You know, there's a
Speaker 6: you know, a catchy term I probably can't say in
Speaker 6: YouTube for that sort of idea. But if simply it
Speaker 6: is this sort of like economic zone, if it simply
Speaker 6: is this sort of you know, support team where you
Speaker 6: need to you know, maximize your talent pool, that's not
Speaker 6: really a country anymore. And you know, this was something
Speaker 6: that many right wingers were comfortable saying during the Biden years,
Speaker 6: right when he was letting in millions of people stream
Speaker 6: across the border every year, like do we even have
Speaker 6: a country anymore? But you know that's changed, right, we
Speaker 6: swapped the guy out, and seemingly still that question of
Speaker 6: are we a real country or not remains unanswered. And again, right,
Speaker 6: like the purpose of someone being in charge is for
Speaker 6: there to be a ruler. And I think one of
Speaker 6: the terrifying things that's emerged in you know, American politics
Speaker 6: is this realization that effectively the system is unassailable. You
Speaker 6: can do everything you're supposed to do right, You can
Speaker 6: create a government apparatus for you know, purging the bloat,
Speaker 6: you know, for attacking the sort of patronage network of
Speaker 6: the left, you attacking the deep state, as it said,
Speaker 6: But it's almost like the blob is too big, it's
Speaker 6: gotten past the point of containment, and those interests right
Speaker 6: of sort of continuing the managerial system for see a
Speaker 6: pace no matter what, seemingly there's nothing to be done.
Speaker 6: And again I'm not trying to you know, monopolize this
Speaker 6: conversation talking about the you know, the American circumstance, but
Speaker 6: it is kind of bizarre that in both we are
Speaker 6: seeing this sort of crisis of legitimacy, Like what is
Speaker 6: the point of participation in this system if quite simply,
Speaker 6: you know, you're you're you're using a wheel that isn't
Speaker 6: connected to anything. In the US, we have these you know,
Speaker 6: shopping carts for children. We're just like you know, painted
Speaker 6: like a race car with a little fake steering wheel
Speaker 6: in it so your kid can amuse themselves while you
Speaker 6: go shopping.
Speaker 2: Like is that what this is?
Speaker 6: Is effectively this whole thing just designed to you know,
Speaker 6: do what it was going to anyway and just make
Speaker 6: you feel you know, Alternately, better or worse about it.
Speaker 6: I mean, I have an answer to that, but that's
Speaker 6: a dangerous place for regime to be.
Speaker 10: It.
Speaker 6: We need some sort of buy in here.
Speaker 7: Yeah, And this is this is why I think the
Speaker 7: British government. It's unpopular to say, but I think the
Speaker 7: British government is panicking about this, just just in straightforward,
Speaker 7: even just from a Machiavellian point of view. I was
Speaker 7: thinking the other day, I mean, though, I think I
Speaker 7: might write something about this. There was some kind of
Speaker 7: atrocity happened last week. It's always the same, It's always
Speaker 7: the same thing. And I was I was thinking, I'd
Speaker 7: rather have a weak king than this.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 7: I'm not talking about Alfred the Great or Charlemagne or
Speaker 7: an Oliver Cromwell figure. What I mean is even like
Speaker 7: a weak pathetic king, like what Charles is now or
Speaker 7: what William will be in the future, even that would
Speaker 7: be better than what we've got now.
Speaker 2: And I realized that, you.
Speaker 7: Know, my, my misters, she watches all of the royal
Speaker 7: gossip rubbish. And I remember I wrote something. I watched
Speaker 7: that series that Crown last year, and you saw the
Speaker 7: because of the royal family, what they are obsessed with
Speaker 7: in all of this. If you think like Prince Andrew,
Speaker 7: because he was connected to Epstein, they immediately just stripped
Speaker 7: him of everything and booted him. I mean to be honest,
Speaker 7: it took. It took longer suld have done. But they
Speaker 7: realized there was more information going to come out in
Speaker 7: America and they were like, okay, get rid of them,
Speaker 7: get get rhythm, strip them everything, get rid of them.
Speaker 7: And the reason for it all And it's the whole
Speaker 7: all of the storylines, all of the plots, all of
Speaker 7: the drama in that TV show of the Crown is
Speaker 7: all about pr The royal family are absolutely desperate to
Speaker 7: be loved by the people, to be respected by the people.
Speaker 2: They it's all they want.
Speaker 7: And I was thinking, it's really strange because if you
Speaker 7: had a weak king and they had that same mindset,
Speaker 7: even if they were squishy and they didn't want to
Speaker 7: do things, They've got this this sort of sort of
Speaker 7: obsessed that people like them, that people like the Royals,
Speaker 7: and whereas when you look at the state, the bureaucracy,
Speaker 7: they don't care because as who do you hete everybody
Speaker 7: hates Kirstalma, but he doesn't care. He really he's on
Speaker 7: like ten percent approval rating, and he'll just carry on pushing.
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Speaker 7: Love like terrible things that nobody wants. I mean, that's
Speaker 7: a whole different subject we'll get to know. But what
Speaker 7: I mean is when you take the daily, the daily
Speaker 7: atrocity that we get now, nobody really knows who's responsible.
Speaker 7: Whereas even if you had a because you've got this
Speaker 7: just just interlinking spaghetti of a system. But I don't know,
Speaker 7: it's a kind of old fashioned reactionary talking point. This
Speaker 7: But even when you put it in like even a
Speaker 7: weakling like William would have to be sitting there, who
Speaker 7: would be sitting on top of this system? Even then
Speaker 7: you would say, well, ultimately you are in charge, why
Speaker 7: is it that the place is being flooded with these
Speaker 7: sex pests? Like, ultimately, this is your country.
Speaker 2: You have to deal with it.
Speaker 7: But you can't really do that with If you try
Speaker 7: and pin that on the Labor Party, they'll just blame
Speaker 7: the Tory Party, or they'll blame this or that quango
Speaker 7: or the European Court of Human Rights or the Supreme Court.
Speaker 7: It just goes on and on and on. There's no accountability.
Speaker 7: And it was fascinating to think that, you know, you
Speaker 7: go back in the day when was Diana having an
Speaker 7: affair and what would the public think of this? What,
Speaker 7: oh god, we have to we have to clean this
Speaker 7: mess up or people will not like us. And I thought, yeah,
Speaker 7: I'd like to have that. I'd like to have a
Speaker 7: bit more of that in the country.
Speaker 2: Even if it was like a total weakling, they would
Speaker 2: at least in some way have to be responsive to
Speaker 2: what people want.
Speaker 6: Well and similarly as well. And this is a point
Speaker 6: that you know that Happa makes talking about monarchy, where
Speaker 6: it's like, well, you've you've also you know, established an
Speaker 6: interest in the nation. These these rulers that will they
Speaker 6: own it and they're going to pass it on to
Speaker 6: their family. Obviously there are still bad kings. Meristotle wrote
Speaker 6: about this quite a bit, but clearly are our elites
Speaker 6: do not see themselves as being connected to a place
Speaker 6: in any way. You know, what matters is not the
Speaker 6: actual nation, how it continues, but the sort of like
Speaker 6: aggregate propositional nation, right that the territory called America, and
Speaker 6: how much it can enrich me, you know, how much
Speaker 6: it can benefit my life. And this is the point
Speaker 6: that Land makes in Dark Enlightenment, I believe, where you know,
Speaker 6: he talks about how you know, the spendthrift politician is
Speaker 6: an evolutionary dead end because you have a very definite
Speaker 6: amount of time and power. You have shorter in hours
Speaker 6: than ors, of course, and so you know, the incentive
Speaker 6: is to create this sort of smash and grap and
Speaker 6: you sort of have this for them, this sort of
Speaker 6: wonderful situation where you know, once you're in, you're in
Speaker 6: and enrich yourself as much as you like. And then
Speaker 6: when questioned, you know, responsibility is so dispersed. It's really
Speaker 6: it's nobody's fault. You know, there's no one you can
Speaker 6: really blame. You've seen this, and I mentioned it before
Speaker 6: with this sort of massive welfare scandal coming out of Minnesota,
Speaker 6: right where these Somalis have you know, defrauded billion billion
Speaker 6: dollars plus or minus of you know, welfare money. And
Speaker 6: you know, when when looking for responsibility, sure you can
Speaker 6: look at the governor and it seems as if he's complicit,
Speaker 6: but you know, he's got more than enough people between
Speaker 6: him and anything actually said that he will never be
Speaker 6: forced to pay any consequences, for nobody will be forced
Speaker 6: to pay political consequences. The only people who might be
Speaker 6: are effectively, it seems like Donald Trump is family in
Speaker 6: immediate circle, you know, because they have particularly angered you know,
Speaker 6: the life left. And that's I think Another thing that
Speaker 6: I find to be particularly galling in all of this
Speaker 6: is that I feel like, I can't be the only
Speaker 6: one looking at this and saying like, well, you know,
Speaker 6: mister president, do you not realize what they're going to
Speaker 6: do to you him? His family has already been debanked,
Speaker 6: even down to his nineteen year old son can't get
Speaker 6: a bank account, you know, simply through association. And so
Speaker 6: when you look at him or even you know, many
Speaker 6: others in the nominal kind of conservative movement after the
Speaker 6: death of Charlie Kirk, it's like, well, like, where do
Speaker 6: you think this goes? Do you think that they're suddenly
Speaker 6: going to stop being violent? Because the sad lesson of
Speaker 6: that case is, effectively, no political violence works. You're sure
Speaker 6: that kid is going to go to jail for the
Speaker 6: rest of his life. But for everyone else they they want,
Speaker 6: they paid effectively no consequence and got one of their
Speaker 6: enemies removed. And so to me, I think that's a
Speaker 6: very worrisome trend that I've identified going forward. It seems
Speaker 6: as if the taboo around political violence has been well
Speaker 6: and truly broken. You know. Sure, obviously the individual people
Speaker 6: were either killed in the act or you know, put
Speaker 6: in jail, So there's that, right, there's still some semblance
Speaker 6: of justice, although in this case in Brown that may
Speaker 6: be falling apart for you know, again incompetence, ormalice. Who knows.
Speaker 6: But again, do you are we still a real country anymore?
Speaker 6: Or are we this sort of banana republic where you know,
Speaker 6: effectively the political class persecutes who they will and uses
Speaker 6: this sort of paramilitary violence to go after their enemies.
Speaker 6: I thought the whole point of a society was to
Speaker 6: have a monopoly on violence.
Speaker 2: Has that gone?
Speaker 6: Are we still, as you've said, like a functional country
Speaker 6: or is this becoming a sort of failed state? And obviously,
Speaker 6: you know, not literally, you know, I can still press
Speaker 6: a button and get whatever I want delivered to my house.
Speaker 6: It's not you know, it's not Zimbabwe. But you start
Speaker 6: to look at this and say, like, all right, we're
Speaker 6: identifying trend lines here, like where does this go and
Speaker 6: where is where is the urgency you would expect from
Speaker 6: you know, a ruling class faced with these sort of problems.
Speaker 6: Like one of the other things that I've been thinking
Speaker 6: about quite a lot is you know, how many of
Speaker 6: these sort of political assassins fit the same profile?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 6: Ironically enough, you know, young men radicalized on the internet,
Speaker 6: but you know, towards this kind of like combination of
Speaker 6: you know, bizarre sexual perversion and extreme left wing politics,
Speaker 6: and it's like, well, you know, both of these kids
Speaker 6: are not from you know, liberal families, They're not from
Speaker 6: these kind of stereotypical progressives. They're sort of you know,
Speaker 6: sleeper cells that have been left in every you know,
Speaker 6: cul de sac in the country. And especially when you
Speaker 6: consider the fact that fewer and fewer young men are
Speaker 6: able to do the things that traditionally connected people to
Speaker 6: a society, able to you know, find a woman, you know,
Speaker 6: find property that is a tinder box. You know that
Speaker 6: not necessarily for some sort of war, but to say,
Speaker 6: like you were, you have this incredible population of young
Speaker 6: men with nothing to lose, and they have been given
Speaker 6: moral license to do something drastic. I can't be the
Speaker 6: only one seeing where this goes. And it seems like
Speaker 6: there are so many of these issues which are you know,
Speaker 6: if not you know, boiling over you. They're starting to bubble,
Speaker 6: and there seems to be no reaction. And I don't
Speaker 6: know if that's because it serves the ends of those
Speaker 6: in power, or they're simply too lazy or incompetent to
Speaker 6: address it. Sorry, more as a bit of a rant
Speaker 6: for me, but something I've been thinking about.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, it's that's quite specific to America. We
Speaker 7: don't because we don't have the guns. I mean, I
Speaker 7: think the criminals. If people I want to do they
Speaker 7: probably get them, but by and large they that's I
Speaker 7: think all of that's a specific problem to America. When
Speaker 7: I saw the picture of Tyler Robinson and the court
Speaker 7: hearing or whatever it was, and the look on his face,
Speaker 7: I thought that this is this is what like a
Speaker 7: leftists in America, like a white man in America, this
Speaker 7: is what he has to do for approval from his
Speaker 7: peers on the left. What he's saying is that I
Speaker 7: can give you a degree. I mean, I don't know
Speaker 7: anything about guns, but I can imagine he's singing one
Speaker 7: of it's in my skill set to be a pull off,
Speaker 7: a shot like that, and you know, this is what
Speaker 7: I can bring to the table.
Speaker 2: Love me, love me, you know.
Speaker 7: And I thought, this is this is just completely twisted.
Speaker 7: This is this that my view on it was, this
Speaker 7: is how what you have to do to be a
Speaker 7: white man and get social approval on the left. In Britain,
Speaker 7: it's it's a bit different. All this summer the violence
Speaker 7: that the concerns the government, because I know they don't
Speaker 7: seem to be very concerned about the daily sort of atrocity.
Speaker 7: But all summer there was this worry that we were
Speaker 7: going to have riots, and that would be the need
Speaker 7: of men against against the rapes, against the endless sort
Speaker 7: of just misery, but particularly against these hotels and these asylums.
Speaker 2: He guys.
Speaker 7: And it was strange going into the summer when these
Speaker 7: things tend to happen. And I wrote an article on
Speaker 7: substack they called it the Summer of Kindling, and all
Speaker 7: the newspapers and everybody, everybody was on tender hooks, and
Speaker 7: there was this sense that if some sort of atrocity happens,
Speaker 7: I mean, they did happen, but if one like in
Speaker 7: Southport last year, really catches on, really, then we've got major,
Speaker 7: major problems. And I think this goes back to the
Speaker 7: government recognizing that at the end of the day, we
Speaker 7: do have a country. We can't just sort of presade
Speaker 7: over this anarchy because our own sort of legitimacy, our
Speaker 7: own position long term is being eroded by this. I mean,
Speaker 7: the latest thing that's going on is that they're they're
Speaker 7: banging the war drums for Russia. The nation has to
Speaker 7: prepare its sons and daughters for war with Russia. And
Speaker 7: I'm not even I'm not even like a Russia symp
Speaker 7: I get accused of it, but I'm perfectly fine that.
Speaker 7: I'm fine if if I think NATO, if we've got NATO,
Speaker 7: if a country in NATO is attacked, then it deserves
Speaker 7: a joint response, fair enough.
Speaker 2: Like that's about it.
Speaker 7: I'm kind of boring and normally in in that regard,
Speaker 7: but that isn't really what we're getting. We're getting as
Speaker 7: if there's going to be this, an attack is imminent,
Speaker 7: And I asked, well, where's the troop build up, where's this,
Speaker 7: Where's this going to happen? And I'm never given any answers.
Speaker 7: But the flip side of that, of course, is that
Speaker 7: now you're asking the demographic which has been made per
Speaker 7: eye as the exact demographic you need to go and
Speaker 7: fight these wars are working class white lads from Teeside
Speaker 7: and Sunderland and Middlesbrough and these these areas which have
Speaker 7: just been left to rot. And you see the sentiment
Speaker 7: of no, we're not going to do it anymore. And
Speaker 7: I did a little sort of grock Google thing, and
Speaker 7: I was asking it, like, what what are the what
Speaker 7: what instances and history have there been where a population
Speaker 7: was so demoralized by its its rulers that they just
Speaker 7: flatly refused to war on their behalf any more. And
Speaker 7: one of the one of the results that came up
Speaker 7: was caligular caligulars caligular plan and invasion of the British
Speaker 7: Isles and as armies just refused because you're insane, you're
Speaker 7: a lunatic, and we're done with it. And I think,
Speaker 7: I just thought, is this whether British state is now
Speaker 7: where the historical comparisons are like Caligula And one of
Speaker 7: the other ones is like Russian the under the Zah
Speaker 7: and Russian and things, But the one of like where
Speaker 7: you've got the British states, the Kisama and the British
Speaker 7: government is now comparable to Caligula in how demoralized and
Speaker 7: kind of incensed people that it's it says it all,
Speaker 7: It really says all.
Speaker 6: No, one hundred percent. I think that his faded drug,
Speaker 6: you said, Marta Valila, I couldn't shoul their father's staffer
Speaker 6: to two to month.
Speaker 2: His fader Lrene thrugy two will you rudder organ will
Speaker 2: blow along?
Speaker 6: When you knowed the two boat couldn't rusta conto Marvine
Speaker 6: twig to month passionary Augustini.
Speaker 11: Not to.
Speaker 2: To a court at Rsa pon kai.
Speaker 9: Another square story from Toblerone, work Christmas do time for
Speaker 9: the gifts you got your boss, Tina bath bombs shaped
Speaker 9: like mince pies, but added tobler own diamond truffles just
Speaker 9: in case she unwraps the bath bombs silence. Then the
Speaker 9: Toblerone truffles, velvety diamond shaped chocolates with a crunchy new
Speaker 9: golf filling. Oh big smiles from Tina. Whatever you gift,
Speaker 9: added diamonds just in case. Tobalone never square.
Speaker 6: That's what's so, I guess worrisome about these kind of
Speaker 6: you know, calls for foreign adventure. We're kind of spinning
Speaker 6: up for one with Venezuela, and you know, hopefully that
Speaker 6: will be much less of a cluster then you know
Speaker 6: what happened in Afghanistan. But you know, I wonder if
Speaker 6: that is the danger of you know, a Nigel Faraja
Speaker 6: esque figure, right, someone who makes the average man feels
Speaker 6: if his complaints are being heard and just in time
Speaker 6: for you know, a big war. You know this is
Speaker 6: you know what you see from from you know, guys
Speaker 6: like aa we're talking about, you know, the desire to
Speaker 6: get white boys to die in foreign wars. Right, that
Speaker 6: is the reason that you know, certain social attitudes are
Speaker 6: being relaxed. And you know, you're you're starting to see
Speaker 6: as we you know, have noticed in both your country
Speaker 6: and mind uh you know, military ads featuring white guys again,
Speaker 6: you start to get a little nervous. You're like, okay,
Speaker 6: like why why are you letting up? Why are you
Speaker 6: doing something obviously that hasn't happened in your country, But
Speaker 6: you know the fact that you know, Farage may be
Speaker 6: making a good run of it, who knows, but I think.
Speaker 7: We are getting those military adds. We were specifically targeting
Speaker 7: people like me, people like people from the north, are
Speaker 7: the industrialized North in particular, which is what traditionally the
Speaker 7: pool that we've It's kind of like the north of
Speaker 7: England is a bit like the American South o semiogogue.
Speaker 2: It is there is something too that.
Speaker 6: All right, it's the same, it's the same genetics, let's
Speaker 6: be honest, right, Yeah, Like this is sort of a
Speaker 6: funny thing. But you know, our are Scots Irish, you know,
Speaker 6: which is you know, a combination of you know, Orderers
Speaker 6: and you know a little bit of Irish mixed in.
Speaker 6: Have basically fought every American war in history. We were
Speaker 6: The whole reason they're ain't even in the South is
Speaker 6: that Quakers were getting killed by Indians, and so they
Speaker 6: sort of cast about and said, well, you know who
Speaker 6: can fight, we will not, And it's who they selected.
Speaker 6: And it is one of those things where it's what
Speaker 6: I worry about more in in my country than yours,
Speaker 6: is that I almost wonder if you know here where
Speaker 6: we're you know, in this in the second Trump era,
Speaker 6: you know, where the right is seen to be sort
Speaker 6: of culturally ascended, you see a lot more buy in
Speaker 6: right because it feels like your country again. But in
Speaker 6: your case, I don't understan that seems like too much whiplash,
Speaker 6: you know, to go from very quickly. You know, you
Speaker 6: can't tweet about anything. You know, everyone is British. You
Speaker 6: know the Irish were actually black, which you know, if
Speaker 6: you're a Ben Franklin guy, I guess you could make
Speaker 6: the argument for but how do you this is an
Speaker 6: open question. I do not know the answer. How do
Speaker 6: you so quickly tone shift on that? Because I can't
Speaker 6: see how you can convince people to sign up for
Speaker 6: a state that you know so recently hated them and
Speaker 6: still does you can't.
Speaker 7: I mean, it's one of the somebody sort of one
Speaker 7: thing that I saw was that they would weigh like
Speaker 7: four thousand pounds a month in their faces, which you
Speaker 7: may get a bit of an up particle of that
Speaker 7: until the shooting starts, until the dying starts, and then
Speaker 7: that won't be enough anymore. But it goes back to
Speaker 7: what I was saying at the start, that you know,
Speaker 7: it gets to a point where the kind of the
Speaker 7: problems that could arise when when I began talking about
Speaker 7: this so long ago, for most people, it was just
Speaker 7: something purely abstract. But now it's there. It's there now
Speaker 7: in the real world. They're they're rubbing shoulders with it
Speaker 7: in the real world, and this is so now it's
Speaker 7: like really there. It's it's in their face. It's in
Speaker 7: their face every time they go to the shopping center,
Speaker 7: it's it's when they go to work, but it's it's
Speaker 7: everywhere now, And so there's a sense that you know,
Speaker 7: the rabbits has bolted, and then they're looking around and thinking, well,
Speaker 7: this this they kind of have asked for this, and
Speaker 7: you get into this kind of like why is this happening?
Speaker 7: Why do I feel like a stranger and your own homeland?
Speaker 7: And so you're going to have to have some really
Speaker 7: drastic policies to undo that. And this is why it's
Speaker 7: it's I realized it's an unpopular opinion, but it's it's
Speaker 7: quite shocking, how like how far to the right labor
Speaker 7: are willing to lurch on some of these things. One
Speaker 7: of the things that was mentioned last week, which I
Speaker 7: think is this is one of the things they mentioned
Speaker 7: was the asylum seekers who were coming in, We're going
Speaker 7: to have all of their money and jewelry taking off
Speaker 7: them to pay for their So so you get this,
Speaker 7: you get this, and it's like, I don't I don't
Speaker 7: want to rob the illegal immigrants. I just don't want
Speaker 7: them in the country, Like I don't want to do
Speaker 7: this performance.
Speaker 6: There's a simpler solution.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't want to I don't want to rob them,
Speaker 7: I don't want to mug them when they step off
Speaker 7: the board. I just want the board turned around and
Speaker 7: they can step back. I don't want this kind of
Speaker 7: performance of cruelty that they that's miss under. But you
Speaker 7: can see what where they're what they're trying.
Speaker 2: To go for there.
Speaker 7: And another thing is the numbers coming down and down
Speaker 7: and down, which they are. It's too late, it's the
Speaker 7: damage is done now.
Speaker 2: And so in terms of I.
Speaker 7: Mean, I do think this is part of the reason
Speaker 7: why the American government is blast, putting European countries on
Speaker 7: blast for being too woke and do you know you
Speaker 7: don't have freedom of speech and all of that. I
Speaker 7: think they actually genuinely worry that this is this is
Speaker 7: compromising the empire itself, where the core the basics now
Speaker 7: are beginning to unravel. If you want to have if
Speaker 7: you want to have this sort of American empire, then
Speaker 7: you've got this sort of major chunk of it in Europe,
Speaker 7: and with Britain as always being America as.
Speaker 2: Point man, in Europe begin to look quite unhinged.
Speaker 7: And you can think, even purely sort of from cymically, yeah, okay,
Speaker 7: it's it's walk, it's lefty. They know they don't have
Speaker 7: free speech, but is does that actually create war fighting potential?
Speaker 7: What happens if they go so far on this that
Speaker 7: it becomes compromises the entire kind of structure of the
Speaker 7: American Empire. And that's why I think that's something to that.
Speaker 7: But as you are saying, even within America, they're not
Speaker 7: doing that much to change it. It's just I think
Speaker 7: there's so much space. Maybe maybe not everybody. It's not
Speaker 7: in their face as it is in European countries like
Speaker 7: England in particular, is pretty bad at the moment, and
Speaker 7: it hasn't created the conditions where lots of men want
Speaker 7: to go off and fight like Russia. Because fundamentally it's
Speaker 7: a trite point to make. That like what everybody will make.
Speaker 7: But it is true that whether they like it or not,
Speaker 7: more people see Kyo storm On the Labor Party as
Speaker 7: their enemy than they do Vladimir Putin and Russia. And
Speaker 7: that's just that's just the reality of it.
Speaker 6: Well, especially when you know, if if the argument you know,
Speaker 6: is made in sort of you know, blood and soil terms, right,
Speaker 6: the idea that you like defend the homeland, it's like, well, one,
Speaker 6: you haven't done that, you know, they are foreigners. And
Speaker 6: also it's not as if you know Russia's you know,
Speaker 6: dumping boats into the English Channel. You know they're they're
Speaker 6: dropping bombs over London. You know it's for again this
Speaker 6: kind of you know, outer or outpost of someone else's empire.
Speaker 6: But why would anyone get involved, you know, particularly when
Speaker 6: they're very clean or very clearly being sold out at home?
Speaker 6: I think one of the other open questions. Uh, and
Speaker 6: this is you know, sort of different on opposite ends
Speaker 6: of the Atlantic. But there is a financial element to
Speaker 6: this as well, right, like how long can you keep
Speaker 6: paying for all of this because and you know it's
Speaker 6: slightly different here because you know, the empire that controls
Speaker 6: most of the world's, right, you get to sort of
Speaker 6: violate the rules. But and I realized, you know, you're
Speaker 6: not a you don't cover finance, and I be honest,
Speaker 6: don't know anything about it either. But the signs you're
Speaker 6: seeing are sort of worrying. You know, you have this
Speaker 6: this giant, you know, argument about the budget, right that
Speaker 6: a massive hole suddenly discovered. You know, it's just missing,
Speaker 6: you know, the problems with the government securing debt. And
Speaker 6: it's like, well, okay, how does the system of paying
Speaker 6: people off work when you can't make the payments, you know,
Speaker 6: when it suddenly you have to make difficult decisions. And
Speaker 6: it seems as if this is just a question that
Speaker 6: is not being answered at all. And again, look, I
Speaker 6: realize people have been predicting the collapse of the global
Speaker 6: financial market for longer that I've been alive. I'm not,
Speaker 6: you know, saying that's what's gonna happen. But again, what
Speaker 6: do you do when you face a genuine crisis? I
Speaker 6: don't know. These people don't seem to be acting seriously
Speaker 6: about it.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and it just keeps limping on, and it may
Speaker 7: we need we end up be facing like some giant crush,
Speaker 7: but we are facing this kind of steady. There's a
Speaker 7: word like and shittification. In this case, everything is getting
Speaker 7: I noticed there's these biscuits. I don't know if you
Speaker 7: have them in America, but we call them penguin biscuits,
Speaker 7: these little chocolate biscuits, and they're basically just a little
Speaker 7: chocolate biscuit that you have with like a cup of tea.
Speaker 7: And they've changed it now because chocolate has become really expensive.
Speaker 7: For apparently they get coca beans.
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Speaker 7: Sensibly, if it's climate change or whatever it is, for
Speaker 7: whatever reason, it's becoming extremely expensive, and so they changed
Speaker 7: it so that now it's chocolate flavored or chocolate or
Speaker 7: the chocolate compound chocolate tasting compound is now what this
Speaker 7: is the kind of played a sort of fait every
Speaker 7: everything's fake, so you know, you'll you'll sit in the
Speaker 7: in the UK with the daily atrocity and you're not
Speaker 7: even eating real chocolate anymore. It's like chocolate tasting compound.
Speaker 7: But it's just enough to get through the regulations and
Speaker 7: all of this kind of thing, and yeah, it's it's all.
Speaker 7: It's all just sort of squaliz. I wish I could,
Speaker 7: I wish I wasn't such a duma, but I do.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 7: One of the things, you know, is one of the
Speaker 7: reasons why I focus on this stuff is because it's real.
Speaker 7: And when I look at like social media and I
Speaker 7: look at sort of the sort of Candice Owns versus
Speaker 7: Tim Poole, versus Nick Fans versus Carlson who killed Charlie,
Speaker 7: this this whole kind of You've basically got all these
Speaker 7: millionaires like ship talking each other and everybody is like
Speaker 7: clapping it along, and that there's something there's this kind
Speaker 7: of hard realism about life in the UK, which I
Speaker 7: find is grounding. I find it kind of keeps you
Speaker 7: keeps your feet on the on the ground it's it's
Speaker 7: not really a part of the discourse of the online right.
Speaker 7: I mean the little touches where you're not even in
Speaker 7: real chocolate anymore, and and and the streets where it's
Speaker 7: like Afghan immigrants and what they call them roadman and
Speaker 7: all of this that there's a there's a kind of
Speaker 7: hardness and glottliness to it, which I feel is real.
Speaker 7: I'm not part of this hype, a real Internet sort
Speaker 7: of garbage, to be honest.
Speaker 6: Well, and this is something that they call it like
Speaker 6: the affordability crisis here where, And I think this is
Speaker 6: a much bigger problem, especially for sort of the narrative
Speaker 6: of America and also for the kind of Whig history
Speaker 6: we see across the progressive world, which is at a
Speaker 6: certain point it becomes painfully obvious that things are getting worse,
Speaker 6: that the system is is fumbling. And you know, I
Speaker 6: think about conversations I've had with my my grandfather, who's
Speaker 6: you know, he worked his entire life in the trades,
Speaker 6: and he's a body man, right, repairing cars, And you know,
Speaker 6: he got out of the military. He was a homeless orphan.
Speaker 6: He was not a wealthy man by any means. You know,
Speaker 6: worked in a McDonald's. You ended up in the trades.
Speaker 6: And the whole time you know, his he supported his
Speaker 6: children is you know, they lived in homes that they owned,
Speaker 6: you know, palaces by any means, but still property, and
Speaker 6: were able to buy new cars. You know, it was
Speaker 6: just seen as kind of expected for someone in the
Speaker 6: you know, the broad working class even and you know,
Speaker 6: now every one of those things has become a luxury
Speaker 6: to the point where you know, housing is ludicrously expensive.
Speaker 6: Groceries have become incredibly expensive, as you mentioned, you know,
Speaker 6: they're more and more of these sort of ersatz products.
Speaker 6: And I mean, look, I'm not going to complain about it,
Speaker 6: but I've never owned a car that came out after
Speaker 6: I got my driver's license, right at any point, even
Speaker 6: to this day, I drive a vehicle that's twenty years old,
Speaker 6: and that's just seen as as normal for people who
Speaker 6: are middle class. Effectively, the whole society is downwardly mobile.
Speaker 6: Everyone is getting poorer, and you know, look, it's one
Speaker 6: thing if that's just hard times right there. This has
Speaker 6: happened before. Nations go through these periods, you know, but
Speaker 6: when you're being told, you know, know, everything is getting better,
Speaker 6: everything has to get better because the past was evil
Speaker 6: and horrible and racist, and now you know, in this
Speaker 6: new world, right, this new liberated existence, isn't it grand?
Speaker 6: And you look around and you're like, well, for who,
Speaker 6: right do I live in a country that's just a
Speaker 6: retirement home, you know, designed to ensure that, you know,
Speaker 6: a certain generation is you know, maximally comfortable. And then
Speaker 6: they're they're imported servants?
Speaker 7: Right?
Speaker 3: Is that?
Speaker 2: Is that what we have here?
Speaker 6: And so it's again like this is another aspect of
Speaker 6: that legitimacy crisis, like what are we doing here? What
Speaker 6: is the point of this?
Speaker 2: I don't know? It is?
Speaker 6: Sorry, what's that?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean And this gets to something which because
Speaker 7: nobody wants to hear it.
Speaker 2: Part one.
Speaker 7: To take Boris Johnson for example, The reason that he
Speaker 7: flooded the place with millions of people within just a
Speaker 7: couple of years for the Borrows Wave was that after COVID,
Speaker 7: they needed all of these bodies. The Bank of England
Speaker 7: I think it was just basically just demanded that he
Speaker 7: flood the place, take off, take off the breaks, take
Speaker 7: off all the safeguards and just flood the place for
Speaker 7: financial reasons to soak up the money so we didn't
Speaker 7: get hype oer inflation and to get people working and
Speaker 7: all of this kind of thing. And now the justification
Speaker 7: which we hear increasingly now there's an article in The
Speaker 7: Guardian this week that everybody was talking about is basically,
Speaker 7: there's there's the birth rate is too low and you
Speaker 7: need to sort of you need bodies, you need these
Speaker 7: endless bodies coming in to keep this thing chugging along.
Speaker 7: And I know and I know that many people on
Speaker 7: the right look for ways to sort of brush that aside,
Speaker 7: and I think it's that it's a nettle that should
Speaker 7: be grabbed and you should just accept that. Yeah, we're
Speaker 7: gonna we still we will just have to do it,
Speaker 7: like we will just have to watch things collapse. We
Speaker 7: will just have to go downwards in our quality of
Speaker 7: life because as it is now, that's gonna happen anyway,
Speaker 7: just it'll take longer, but when it does actually happen,
Speaker 7: we're going to be like total minorities in our own country.
Speaker 7: And I'm I've actually sort of fought this through towards
Speaker 7: logical conclusion that for example, you're gonna have to deal
Speaker 7: with the fact that there.
Speaker 2: Will be two few children and too many old.
Speaker 7: People, and that's just the way it's going to be,
Speaker 7: and it's going to be tough. But if we've still
Speaker 7: got our own country, and we've still got our own
Speaker 7: people and a sense of where we are in the world,
Speaker 7: it could be choked up as another kind of hard
Speaker 7: time that let's say the English went through. So we've
Speaker 7: been through hard times before and we're going through another
Speaker 7: one again. If you've got like a circular view of history,
Speaker 7: which I tend to, then you kind of you know
Speaker 7: that winter is coming, and if you can just be
Speaker 7: honest about where you are on the cycle, you can
Speaker 7: hunker down and you can get ready for it. Now
Speaker 7: a strange but what that will mean will be telling
Speaker 7: the markets and telling the bankers to go to hell.
Speaker 7: And in a geopolitical sense, it's gonna be a little
Speaker 7: bit like if you're in a playing strategy game, it
Speaker 7: would be like turtling. You're just gonna kind of take
Speaker 7: some time out from world history because you're not in
Speaker 7: a good state right now. You're going to defend your borders,
Speaker 7: You're gonna have minimal You're going to be like actually
Speaker 7: so many other countries around the world, to just mind
Speaker 7: their own business we did. You know, it's a particular
Speaker 7: Western and are definitely a particularly English mindset.
Speaker 2: You see it even now, even now, at.
Speaker 7: This stage, we're warmongering and pretend to be a great power.
Speaker 7: And if we could just say, look, time out, time out,
Speaker 7: we need one hundred years of getting We need to
Speaker 7: deport all the foreigners, and we need to get a
Speaker 7: house and order because we're dying here and we need
Speaker 7: to go on the defensive now very quickly, you would
Speaker 7: have curious things happening in that Materially things would go
Speaker 7: downhill quite a lot, but other things will happen where
Speaker 7: everybody would be able to have a house, so there
Speaker 7: wouldn't be a housing shortage. You would free up all
Speaker 7: of these properties and you would have you know, when
Speaker 7: when you when you we got through the plague, for example,
Speaker 7: you got this booon to after the plague, it was horrible,
Speaker 7: the worst thing we've ever been through. And afterwards it
Speaker 7: was this boon time. And slowly but surely you can
Speaker 7: breathe yourself back to life, and you can heal the scars,
Speaker 7: and we can eat potatoes and onions and it's not
Speaker 7: going to be nice. But the problem is this is
Speaker 7: not what anybody wants to hear this is this is
Speaker 7: just not and this is this is this is the tragedy.
Speaker 7: This is the great tragedy of it all. The solution
Speaker 7: of this is to just take some time out and
Speaker 7: be ourselves for a long time.
Speaker 2: But it's not. It's this kind of drive and of madness.
Speaker 6: Right, And that's that you're the thing that I mentioned right,
Speaker 6: that that wig history right, things are always getting better
Speaker 6: all the time, and that's almost like this sacred myth
Speaker 6: that needs to be preserved no matter what. And so
Speaker 6: certainly on the narrative level, but also on the economic level,
Speaker 6: it's like, whatever we need to do so that that
Speaker 6: that fiction stays a live right, anything will be sacrificed.
Speaker 6: And I think that your point about, you know, quality
Speaker 6: of living is I agree with that, right. And the
Speaker 6: complaints I'm making are not to say, you know, a
Speaker 6: decline in quality of living is the you know, the
Speaker 6: the worst thing that can befall either an individual or
Speaker 6: a nation. But there's a difference, as you've said, when
Speaker 6: you were getting you know, both, when you're getting both
Speaker 6: replacement and the decline, and it's like, well that seems
Speaker 6: to be losing twice right, this, this decline and quality
Speaker 6: of living, you know, this decline in you know, international
Speaker 6: prominence seems to be an efft seems to be the
Speaker 6: way of the world. And you can either fight against that,
Speaker 6: you know, tooth and nail and destroy yourself in the process,
Speaker 6: or say, you know what, I would rather live to
Speaker 6: play another game anyway more goth over time. I've got
Speaker 6: another interview after this, and my guest is no doubt
Speaker 6: wondering where I am. But thank you so much, man,
Speaker 6: It's it's always great to talk to you. I really
Speaker 6: appreciate your time.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 7: I hope it wasn't too miserable, but that's the way
Speaker 7: things are.
Speaker 2: At the moment.
Speaker 7: So yeah, maybe I'll see you again next year.
Speaker 2: I have a merry Christmas.
Speaker 6: Likewise, Mort, I'll be sure to link to all of
Speaker 6: your stuff. It's great speaking to you. I appreciate it,
Speaker 6: all right.
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