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<v Speaker 1>Greetings, Full Circle listeners. This is your host, Charles Tyson Jr.

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<v Speaker 1>The following interview with Joseph Ahmed is a delightful conversation

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<v Speaker 1>that you are going to enjoy. Just a quick note,

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes technology is not my friend. So if it sounds

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<v Speaker 1>like I'm yelling from across the room into the computer

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<v Speaker 1>for all intents and purposes, let's just say that's what happened.

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<v Speaker 1>It gets better and then it's fine. Hope you enjoy

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<v Speaker 1>the show and thank you for listening. Coming to you

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<v Speaker 1>from the dining room table at East Barbary Lane. Welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to another special episode a Full Circle the podcast. I

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<v Speaker 1>am your host Charles Tyson Junior and two days guest

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<v Speaker 1>I am thrilled to sit down and chat with. They

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<v Speaker 1>are an artist of many mini mediums which automatically earns

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<v Speaker 1>a warm spot in my heart. Starting January twenty first,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty six, they will be starring in the one

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<v Speaker 1>person show Draw the Circle, presented by Hedgerow Theater Company

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<v Speaker 1>in Philadelphia. We're going to hear a lot about that,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure, plus countless other fabulous and fears things from

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<v Speaker 1>our guest, Joseph Ahmed. Welcome to the Full Circle Table.

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<v Speaker 2>Joseph, thank you, it's late to be here. It is

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<v Speaker 2>a pleasure to have you.

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<v Speaker 1>So, as I said, you are an artist who likes

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<v Speaker 1>to you like hyphens from what I did say, so

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<v Speaker 1>besides being an actor a thespian, how many hyphens are

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<v Speaker 1>we talking here?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, I do love a hyphen It's always

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<v Speaker 2>difficult to talk about the many things I do in

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<v Speaker 2>a way that this is synct and so, especially in

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<v Speaker 2>my most recent bio, I just started using the word

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<v Speaker 2>over hyphenated to describe myself, which is it's really doing

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<v Speaker 2>good for me right now. So I don't know the

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<v Speaker 2>exact number. I think my current bio has something like

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<v Speaker 2>ten or so different things all linked together with the

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<v Speaker 2>little dashes. I come from an acting background primarily, that's

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<v Speaker 2>the main thing I've been trained to do. I went

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<v Speaker 2>to a theater Arts BFA program at Boston University for college,

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<v Speaker 2>but sort of from there, I've expanded into so many

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<v Speaker 2>different things. I act, I direct, I'm a playwright, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>a dancer. I've worked as a circus artist. I'm a

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<v Speaker 2>teaching artist across both theater and circus. I have founded

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<v Speaker 2>my own company that focuses on interactive performance, so things

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<v Speaker 2>that are immersive and also like sort of ennshed with

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<v Speaker 2>game design. I have a bunch of musical instruments. There's

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<v Speaker 2>probably a bunch of things that I'm forgetting many things

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<v Speaker 2>on the admin side as well. I feel like, as

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<v Speaker 2>is true of many different Philadelphia artists, I am very

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<v Speaker 2>much like I think a truth of this scene unless

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<v Speaker 2>you're really trying to be in a particular niche is

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<v Speaker 2>that a lot of the most exciting stuff, while there's

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<v Speaker 2>not a lot of money attached to it, happens in

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<v Speaker 2>sort of that realm where everyone is like wants to

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<v Speaker 2>be and is doing a million things at once and

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<v Speaker 2>juggling all of their hats. So apart from literally being

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<v Speaker 2>a juggler, which I am, I also metaphorically juggle my

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<v Speaker 2>many hyphens and hats across all the things I do.

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<v Speaker 1>That's called being marketable.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, so long as you figure out how to

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<v Speaker 2>talk about it all market right.

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<v Speaker 1>I used to just say I do things.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean honestly, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's like and a lot of it comes from necessity.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like, I can't afford to hire a graphic designers,

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<v Speaker 1>so I guess I better learn how to do graphic design.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, my primary at my company that I co founded

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<v Speaker 2>off this agency, My primary job right now is doing

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of our like grant running and development work,

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<v Speaker 2>which was not a thing I set out to do,

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<v Speaker 2>but I have had to learn it by necessity and

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<v Speaker 2>now I am good at it. And that is the

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<v Speaker 2>reality of living this life valuable.

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<v Speaker 1>I always think of that old in Living Color sketch,

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<v Speaker 1>the Jamaican family, the Headleys, and they all have like

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<v Speaker 1>ten thousand jobs, and the wife is like the meta D.

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<v Speaker 1>I serve the tea and look at me, I'm heavy.

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<v Speaker 1>D Like, That's always what I say.

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<v Speaker 2>I love that.

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<v Speaker 1>So are you a Philadelphia native?

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<v Speaker 2>Two people not from this area? Yes, to people from

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<v Speaker 2>this area. No, I'm from South Jersey. I grew up

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<v Speaker 2>in Pittsack, and so like the twenty minute drive from

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<v Speaker 2>the Ben Franklin Bridge, so very much in meshed in

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of Philly culture, rotten for the Eagles, all

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<v Speaker 2>that good stuff, Go birds, Go birds. Exactly what a

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<v Speaker 2>season that's been, Oh my god. But yeah, but so

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<v Speaker 2>I was in this, you know the situation of like

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<v Speaker 2>coming to Philly constantly for field trips and visits and

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<v Speaker 2>et cetera. And I did a bunch of like theater

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<v Speaker 2>things here in the city when I was a teenager

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<v Speaker 2>and whatnot. But then after I went to college, I

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<v Speaker 2>moved back to the city formerly and I think it

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<v Speaker 2>was twenty late twenty fourteen, early twenty fifteen, okay, And

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<v Speaker 2>so it's been a little over a decade that I've

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<v Speaker 2>been fully enmeshed in Philly and living in the city.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, okay, so you did the reverse of me. I

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<v Speaker 1>lived in Philly for I'm just going to say multiple

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<v Speaker 1>decades and then moved to South Jersey. And I always

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<v Speaker 1>say it takes the same amount of time to cross

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<v Speaker 1>the bridge and go to Philly as it took me

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<v Speaker 1>to ride the thirty four trolley into Center City.

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<v Speaker 2>So absolutely, absolutely, it just happens to be that there's

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<v Speaker 2>a different state and a cover.

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<v Speaker 1>Charge coverage charge, get at. I never thought of it

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<v Speaker 1>that way, but yeah, and I should start asking at

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<v Speaker 1>the toll like I ask at clubs, what does this

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<v Speaker 1>get me? Besides in.

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<v Speaker 2>I love that, But now it's not even like a

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<v Speaker 2>person there. Most of the time you're just like yelling

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<v Speaker 2>at the easy.

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<v Speaker 1>Past thing exactly. And you know, the extroverted introvert that

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<v Speaker 1>I am. I love easy pass.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, tell me about it. Not having to

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<v Speaker 2>have a random transaction. It's great.

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<v Speaker 1>Like the first time I ever ordered grub hub and

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have to speak to someone, I was like, this

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<v Speaker 1>is the golden age. Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, it's so funny because you know, as someone who

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<v Speaker 2>is you know, the thing I've spent the most time

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<v Speaker 2>on artistically in my life is acting, and I so

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<v Speaker 2>really I relate to this so hard. I'm like, I

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<v Speaker 2>do not want to have that little transaction. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>want to do it. It is so stressful for me.

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<v Speaker 2>But oh going on stage and doing a ninety minute

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<v Speaker 2>solo performance in front of strangers, great, love it, eat

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<v Speaker 2>it up.

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<v Speaker 1>How insane is that?

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<v Speaker 2>It's so it's I mean, I've been thinking about it

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<v Speaker 2>my whole life and like, what is this? What does

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<v Speaker 2>this mean about me? What is the psychology of this?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have great answers. I have many conjectures.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I I was thinking about this recently. It's like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, for years, I just thought I was the

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<v Speaker 1>hugest whore, just out there all the time, putting my

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<v Speaker 1>face everywhere, making sure that I'm seen and heard. But

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<v Speaker 1>the second I'm not on stage or just on it's like,

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<v Speaker 1>don't look at me. So my life was like look

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<v Speaker 1>at me, look at myself, looking at.

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<v Speaker 2>Me totally totally. It's like, you know, I really I've

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<v Speaker 2>been thinking about this with this particular show too, with

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<v Speaker 2>called The Circle, because I really struggle with like sort

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<v Speaker 2>of coming out as an actor after the show and

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<v Speaker 2>like greeting people and having conversations. I want to do it,

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<v Speaker 2>but then I'm also like, I just have so much

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<v Speaker 2>I have a lot of social anxiety baseline, and so

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of it comes up around that where I'm like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I want to come out and be available to people

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<v Speaker 2>to talk to if they want to like talk about,

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<v Speaker 2>especially like a show that has so many like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>deep themes happening and like intense things as this play does.

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<v Speaker 2>And also I don't want to be like and everyone

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<v Speaker 2>wants to talk to me because I'm a star and

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<v Speaker 2>here I am and like have expectations on people. And

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<v Speaker 2>it's just always it's always funny that I'm like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>doing this performance, that's so easy, And then even just

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<v Speaker 2>the moment after the show of like coming back to

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<v Speaker 2>those conversations is so much more complicated for me to navigate.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, well, first of all, that was a very good

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<v Speaker 1>segue into talking about the show. No, but but yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's like when you're when you're on stage, even though

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<v Speaker 1>you can see the audience, they're not really real, They're

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<v Speaker 1>not really there. I was to a face to face conversation, was.

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<v Speaker 2>Like, Hi, right, totally, where do we start?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? So, yes, please tell us about this show Drop

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<v Speaker 1>the Circle.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so the play is draw the Circle by I

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<v Speaker 2>may pronounce the playwright's name, so deep forgiveness for me,

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<v Speaker 2>I hope if I do. But mush of Mushtuck Dean

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<v Speaker 2>is the playwright, and this play is really fascinating. It

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<v Speaker 2>is an autobiographical solo show at its core that Dean

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<v Speaker 2>wrote about his own experience. The thing that is really

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<v Speaker 2>two things are really unique about it and this presentation

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<v Speaker 2>of the play. One is that the play is told

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<v Speaker 2>in its original form without the playwright's own voice in

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<v Speaker 2>it at all. So it is Dean playing eighteen other

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<v Speaker 2>or seventeen other people in his life around this journey

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<v Speaker 2>of his gender transition journey and their conflicts, reactions, their love,

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<v Speaker 2>their anger, their disappointment, their relief, etc. Through that journey,

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<v Speaker 2>and so as opposed to most autobiographical solo shows, of

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<v Speaker 2>which I've done one myself in Philly a few years ago,

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<v Speaker 2>where you're like, it's my story and so it's me

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<v Speaker 2>here on the mic in the light center stage, this

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<v Speaker 2>play instead does the opposite, and it draws this circle

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<v Speaker 2>of characters around the central figure, and you see Dean

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<v Speaker 2>only kind of in silhouette. Is the image that I've

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<v Speaker 2>been using to describe it, because you see them sort

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<v Speaker 2>of refracted through all the different ways that people are

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<v Speaker 2>seeing him. And the thing that's really interesting about this

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<v Speaker 2>production of it is that this is the first time

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<v Speaker 2>that the play has been presented with out Dean being

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<v Speaker 2>the performer, and so there's three different ways it can

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<v Speaker 2>be presented in the script. There's a version for the playwright,

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<v Speaker 2>which is the main one that was incubated to interact

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<v Speaker 2>here in Philly actually and then performed a few different places.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a version that I'm not sure if it's been

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<v Speaker 2>done for three actors, and then one for an actor

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<v Speaker 2>who is not the playwright, which just needs to be

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<v Speaker 2>a South Asian actor of any gender needs to be

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<v Speaker 2>cast in it. And so this is the first time

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<v Speaker 2>that this play is happening through a body that is

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<v Speaker 2>not the playwrights, and so there's a new epilogue that

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<v Speaker 2>Dean has written that is actually from his voice that

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<v Speaker 2>I deliver. And so it's been a really fascinating experience

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<v Speaker 2>for me, especially as someone who like I'm on my

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<v Speaker 2>own gender journey, and I've also done an autobiographical solo

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<v Speaker 2>show before, to be stepping into something that is so

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<v Speaker 2>so tender and so personal and also has this really

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<v Speaker 2>interesting layer of distance that has been created in it

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<v Speaker 2>to bring in these other voices. I almost feel like

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<v Speaker 2>one of the circle of characters, of like another person

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<v Speaker 2>who is now sort of reflecting myself into an off

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<v Speaker 2>of Dean's story.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, that is fascinating. That is You're right that is

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<v Speaker 1>not a common way of doing a one person show,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, because I've seen several myself, and it's very

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<v Speaker 1>like either it's very good or, as I've said before,

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<v Speaker 1>if I want to watch someone masturbate on stage, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not going to spend money on a theater ticket, you

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<v Speaker 1>know what I mean. But I love the idea of

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<v Speaker 1>basically telling the story around yourself, drawing the circle. So

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<v Speaker 1>you mentioned that you are on your own gender journey.

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<v Speaker 1>How has that affected an impacted, influenced and formed your

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<v Speaker 1>performance in this show.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a great question, and I'll I think I'll wonder

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<v Speaker 2>a bit in my answer because there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>like processing around.

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<v Speaker 1>It that I'm free, I'll follow you.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the one of the cool things that there's

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<v Speaker 2>a phrase I think that I so I ended up actually,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it is often like a director's note in

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<v Speaker 2>programs for a show. For this production, actually the director,

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<v Speaker 2>Andrew was not that interested in writing a director's note,

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<v Speaker 2>and I actually ended up writing a performer's note because

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<v Speaker 2>I was really interested, especially with the how personal the

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<v Speaker 2>show was about, like sort of reflecting on this kind

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<v Speaker 2>of stuff of like how does my own racial and

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<v Speaker 2>cultural and gender experience relate to what Dina's going through?

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<v Speaker 2>And I wrote that my gender identity I am tracking

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<v Speaker 2>down somewhere in the non binary wilds, was the phrase

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<v Speaker 2>I wrote for this program note, which feels quite accurate

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<v Speaker 2>to me. Yeah, I'm in a place of over the

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<v Speaker 2>last chunk of years, finding my way into something. I've

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<v Speaker 2>been using the label gender fluid for a while. I've

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<v Speaker 2>a non binary is feeling more true to me in

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<v Speaker 2>some ways these days, but it's very much a journey

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<v Speaker 2>that I'm still sort of like deep in a pretty

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<v Speaker 2>slow evolution of. And it's been really interesting in this

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<v Speaker 2>moment stepping into the story because it this story feels

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<v Speaker 2>trans to me in a couple of different and really

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<v Speaker 2>interesting ways. One of them is obviously that is it

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<v Speaker 2>is the story of a transman's transition process, right, And

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<v Speaker 2>so in that way it is like a really like

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<v Speaker 2>authentic and bare and vulnerable articulation of that. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>really like fascinating for my body to step into that

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<v Speaker 2>story and to feel what i'd like to feel, the

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<v Speaker 2>resonance and friction to my own journey, where it's so

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<v Speaker 2>clear both that I'm like, oh, yeah, my gender journey

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<v Speaker 2>is very different and then this person's and also there

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<v Speaker 2>are things that resonate and there are things that affirm

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<v Speaker 2>what I'm going through. And on the other side, the

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<v Speaker 2>act of performing this play is an act of constant

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<v Speaker 2>transformation of like every two minutes, changing into a different gender,

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<v Speaker 2>a different character, a different age. And so it is

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<v Speaker 2>a really like interestingly like fractured, fragmented experience to just

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<v Speaker 2>do as a person, as a body that feels like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that feels like this constant sort of act of like

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<v Speaker 2>stepping into and out of and trying on and taking off.

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<v Speaker 2>And one of the things that I think is so

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<v Speaker 2>generous about what Dean shares in his journey is that, like,

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<v Speaker 2>as much as there's always what I I guess into it,

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<v Speaker 2>and again, you know, in all of this, I think

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<v Speaker 2>that it is important to draw a distinction of like

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<v Speaker 2>there is sort of my understanding of Dean, that is,

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<v Speaker 2>who is a character in this play has that is

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<v Speaker 2>very similar to the actual person and who the actual

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<v Speaker 2>person is, And so you know, I'm able to speak

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<v Speaker 2>from my knowledge of the character and what that says

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<v Speaker 2>about the real person behind it. But what I find

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<v Speaker 2>in the story is that as much as there's Dean

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<v Speaker 2>experienced a strong feeling of generics, waria, a search for

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<v Speaker 2>gender euphoria and for an identity and a body that

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<v Speaker 2>would fit with who is inside, that that was not

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<v Speaker 2>a linear journey, and that there were so many different

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<v Speaker 2>times of like arrival in a sense of an identity

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<v Speaker 2>and then a realization that didn't quite fit, and a

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<v Speaker 2>trying on of a trying to searching and trying to

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<v Speaker 2>figure out what the right thing is, and that has

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<v Speaker 2>been really affirming to me as a person who I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's easy. I think a lot of the stories

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<v Speaker 2>that I've received, especially from people who are like really

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<v Speaker 2>out and have been really out for a long time,

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<v Speaker 2>of there being a level of like certainty and clarity

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<v Speaker 2>from a young age and that and my experience is

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<v Speaker 2>so much more of like of questioning and of search

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<v Speaker 2>and of being in strange gray areas and often feeling like, oh, yeah, like,

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<v Speaker 2>am I enough this? Like do I deserve to take

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<v Speaker 2>up space in my identity in this way? Is that? Okay?

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<v Speaker 2>Am I stepping on other people's toes by doing that?

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<v Speaker 2>And I've and it's been really so it's been really

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<v Speaker 2>helpful to step into a story that I think on

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<v Speaker 2>the surface, I was like, oh, this feels so much

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<v Speaker 2>more valid as a trans story than my own, and

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<v Speaker 2>to be recognizing that, Like, while I do think there

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<v Speaker 2>are like reasons why the Dean's story is important to

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<v Speaker 2>be told as a transfer because of the kind of like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>because of the way that the rhetoric of the world,

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<v Speaker 2>because of the way that the world reacts to that

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<v Speaker 2>kind of transition is really different than mine, But also

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<v Speaker 2>it has been really affirming of the kind of the searchingness,

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<v Speaker 2>the questingness, the the unknownness of how I've been trying to, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>figure out the words, the things that close, the expressions

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<v Speaker 2>that match the person I am inside and who that

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<v Speaker 2>person is I keep changing.

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<v Speaker 1>I was watching you as you were describing it and

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<v Speaker 1>talking about it. It's like, yeah, it's this nebulous like

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<v Speaker 1>dance almost, you know, and I feel the same way.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like I cringe a little bit. And this is

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<v Speaker 1>the personal thing when someone says I don't believe in labels,

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<v Speaker 1>because usually something low key problematic is coming after that.

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<v Speaker 1>But when I was going through was going through, like

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<v Speaker 1>I'm done going through my own journey. I landed for

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<v Speaker 1>a minute on non binary, and I started like using

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<v Speaker 1>they them pronouns, and that didn't feel authentic, you know

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<v Speaker 1>what I mean. I'm like, so I was sitting in

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<v Speaker 1>that like, well, I am this, I'm not that, but

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<v Speaker 1>I'm also kind of not that, you know, you know

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<v Speaker 1>what I mean. So then I'm just like, I guess

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just me. And then I'm like, oh god, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>one of those I don't believe in labels people, What

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<v Speaker 1>do I do?

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<v Speaker 2>Totally? I mean, yeah, I feel that tension a lot

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<v Speaker 2>because I think that, like I've been running into this. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I think both in like gender things and also in

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<v Speaker 2>like other aspects of my life and art of like

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<v Speaker 2>words are important, words are useful, words mean things, words

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<v Speaker 2>help us define space where its help us bring people together.

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<v Speaker 2>And also language is constantly evolving. Language can be exclusionary,

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<v Speaker 2>language can be hurtful, and I think, yeah, I'm trying

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<v Speaker 2>to find the place with all of this where I

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00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:58.559
<v Speaker 2>can live in the like whatever we are using as

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00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:02.319
<v Speaker 2>language is our best guests right now, right and no

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<v Speaker 2>one is ever going to fully agree on the thing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's all going to keep changing. The words we're using

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<v Speaker 2>right now in fifty years will probably be incredibly offensive,

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<v Speaker 2>like you know, right who knows, and being like great,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just gonna try to let go a little and

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<v Speaker 2>at least for myself. The thing I've been finding is

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<v Speaker 2>like I am tracking down my gender identity somewhere in

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<v Speaker 2>the non binary wilds. The like poetry of that does

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<v Speaker 2>a thing for me that is different than being like

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<v Speaker 2>I might be gender fluid or non binary, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>really know. You know, there's something about like embracing the

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<v Speaker 2>power of language to speak beautifully about the in between

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<v Speaker 2>places that calls to me as an artist and writer,

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<v Speaker 2>as opposed to just like trying to make new boxes

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<v Speaker 2>so I can fit into the new right box.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, And it's like, spend so much time fighting the

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<v Speaker 1>concept of the box. So it's like.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly exactly exactly, I'm like, right, and then how to

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<v Speaker 2>do that without being like I don't believe in labels,

359
00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:02.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, like it's complication, right.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's like, Okay, I am male, I am not

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<v Speaker 1>a woman, but when you say you're a man, then

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<v Speaker 1>I go because I look at men, I'm like no, a.

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<v Speaker 2>No, yea, yeah, absolutely absolutely.

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<v Speaker 1>Like if you could speak in different fonts, maybe that

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<v Speaker 1>would help.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know, my god, yeah absolutely yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>The search for expression, right, if I could find a

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<v Speaker 1>way to say it in like hell Vetica, you know

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<v Speaker 1>what I'm saying.

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<v Speaker 2>I love that. No, I totally, I totally like yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>cause I'm like, yeah, I'm like, you know, not a

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<v Speaker 2>man and also like a man, and like both of

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<v Speaker 2>those feel true in my body. And I have been socialized,

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<v Speaker 2>I've been seen, I received the privileges of being a

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<v Speaker 2>man in many ways. I still continue to and I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think that I'm going to be undergoing, at least

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think so. I don't know, but I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think I'm gonna be undergoing the kind of transition where

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<v Speaker 2>like those privileges are, that kind of socialization fully goes

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<v Speaker 2>away and how I express myself unperceived. And so it

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<v Speaker 2>does feel right to me to be like, yeah, the

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<v Speaker 2>label of man still is a part of the word

383
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<v Speaker 2>cloud of me. But I get to like, yeah, I

384
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<v Speaker 2>get to like move those fridge magnets around myself. I

385
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<v Speaker 2>get to be in in the act of the poetry

386
00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:20.319
<v Speaker 2>of shaping what that story is. And that's one of

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<v Speaker 2>the words that I can or cannot use. And it's

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<v Speaker 2>one of the things that is so fascinating inspiring about

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<v Speaker 2>the way this play is written, because I'm like, this

390
00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:32.400
<v Speaker 2>play is dead naming Dean all over the place. It

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00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:36.119
<v Speaker 2>is not Dean's current pronouns all over the place. It

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00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:38.559
<v Speaker 2>is Dean's dead name all over the place. And it

393
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:40.319
<v Speaker 2>is really weird because we'll be in the room and

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<v Speaker 2>we'll be out of a scene and will use accidentally

395
00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:46.160
<v Speaker 2>use Dean's dead name just because that's what is in

396
00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:47.759
<v Speaker 2>the script and in the scene we're talking about, and

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<v Speaker 2>then we'll all be like, oh oh sorry, oh God.

398
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<v Speaker 2>And it is one of those sort of like acts

399
00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:57.359
<v Speaker 2>of generosity and vulnerability that is in this play that

400
00:22:57.480 --> 00:23:02.160
<v Speaker 2>is really kind of like sounding to me. And I

401
00:23:02.200 --> 00:23:04.359
<v Speaker 2>know that for many people like that might feel really

402
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:06.960
<v Speaker 2>especially fancile, it might be feel really weird and hard

403
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:11.440
<v Speaker 2>to hear on stage. And I think at least for

404
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:14.559
<v Speaker 2>me and how I'm sitting the I know that generosity

405
00:23:14.599 --> 00:23:17.000
<v Speaker 2>is not for everyone. But it's been really moving to

406
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:21.359
<v Speaker 2>see and to get to experience that kind of generosity

407
00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:23.440
<v Speaker 2>for this person, because it does feel like this story

408
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:27.640
<v Speaker 2>has given me a view into their experience, that I

409
00:23:28.039 --> 00:23:31.160
<v Speaker 2>into this person's experience that I wouldn't have had without that.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm very grateful for that act of vulnerability, not that

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00:23:34.039 --> 00:23:36.119
<v Speaker 2>it is an act of vulnerability for everyone.

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00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:41.599
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, those you used two very accurate words with

413
00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:51.359
<v Speaker 1>that generous and vulnerable. It's like I'm just going to say,

414
00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:53.839
<v Speaker 1>it's like trans Jesus, I'm doing this for all of you.

415
00:23:56.160 --> 00:23:58.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean there is like, right, there is this

416
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<v Speaker 2>element of and it's a thing I have a lot

417
00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:02.400
<v Speaker 2>as an artist, you know, someone who makes me own

418
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:04.400
<v Speaker 2>work of like and even just as a body, as

419
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:06.359
<v Speaker 2>an actor, right of like the things we go through

420
00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:09.519
<v Speaker 2>to like to perform, and the rigorous of that. Yeah,

421
00:24:09.559 --> 00:24:12.960
<v Speaker 2>there is an element of like sacrificing, an element something

422
00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:16.400
<v Speaker 2>about myself to offer to this like greater whole of

423
00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:20.880
<v Speaker 2>the public. I really reject the like suffering or starving

424
00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:25.079
<v Speaker 2>artist trope. I'm like, that's a dangerous thing, and like

425
00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:28.480
<v Speaker 2>I think that healing and thriving artists make better art

426
00:24:28.519 --> 00:24:32.200
<v Speaker 2>than suffering and starving artists. And yet there is a

427
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:35.480
<v Speaker 2>truth that there is a Yeah, I think that there

428
00:24:35.559 --> 00:24:39.559
<v Speaker 2>is a way in which some people are called to

429
00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:47.119
<v Speaker 2>transform private pain into public transformation. Yeah, and that is

430
00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:52.400
<v Speaker 2>a special thing that, yeah, that some people are willing

431
00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:55.480
<v Speaker 2>to offer, and that I'm grateful that we get to

432
00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:56.519
<v Speaker 2>receive as a culture.

433
00:24:57.759 --> 00:25:03.640
<v Speaker 1>Right, I'm still the thriving artists make better art. That's

434
00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:08.559
<v Speaker 1>a that is an internal debate I have been having

435
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:13.400
<v Speaker 1>because for the longest time, I was wearing my struggle

436
00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:18.759
<v Speaker 1>as an artist as like a badge of authenticity. You know,

437
00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:22.079
<v Speaker 1>I'm in these streets, I'm about it. Yeah, I don't

438
00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:23.680
<v Speaker 1>have lights. But you saw that show.

439
00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:31.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well yeah, it's such a it's so complicated, right,

440
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:35.880
<v Speaker 2>because I do think that and you know I called

441
00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:38.599
<v Speaker 2>back a little bit too. What is it Hannah Gadsby's

442
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:43.000
<v Speaker 2>special in the net? Yes, yeah, right, like Van Go

443
00:25:43.640 --> 00:25:45.440
<v Speaker 2>painted this, we had to sell we have the sun

444
00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:48.119
<v Speaker 2>flowers because he was healing, because he was taking medication,

445
00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:51.720
<v Speaker 2>not because he was crazy, right right that. I think

446
00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:53.480
<v Speaker 2>that that that really spoke to me. And I think

447
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:55.559
<v Speaker 2>it's a thing, especially you know, like running my own

448
00:25:55.599 --> 00:26:00.480
<v Speaker 2>arts company, both in like obvious agency little so I'm like,

449
00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:03.000
<v Speaker 2>I've recently stepped into being part of the leadership team

450
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:06.880
<v Speaker 2>of Philadelphia Asian Performing Artists, which is a local grassroots

451
00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:14.279
<v Speaker 2>collective group. PAPA for short is the grassroots membership based

452
00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:21.880
<v Speaker 2>collective that is around connecting supporting people of Pan Asian

453
00:26:21.880 --> 00:26:24.279
<v Speaker 2>descent who are involved in the performing arts in the

454
00:26:24.279 --> 00:26:29.359
<v Speaker 2>Philadelphia area. Has been around for about eight years. The

455
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:31.599
<v Speaker 2>longtime creative director of My Dear Friend, Karramira has just

456
00:26:31.640 --> 00:26:34.039
<v Speaker 2>stepped down and a group of us have stepped in

457
00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:37.039
<v Speaker 2>a sort of leadership committee to take it over. Very

458
00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:39.680
<v Speaker 2>cool organization. We'll see. We're very much like in the

459
00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:41.160
<v Speaker 2>place of like, oh, what do we do with this now,

460
00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:46.440
<v Speaker 2>Let's see what people need. But it's been really inspiring

461
00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:49.640
<v Speaker 2>in it's a thing that I've thought about a lot

462
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:54.039
<v Speaker 2>in both of those leadership roles. I'm losing my train

463
00:26:54.039 --> 00:26:56.440
<v Speaker 2>of thought. Where was like, where are we just before this? Uh?

464
00:26:57.000 --> 00:26:57.920
<v Speaker 1>Thriving artists us?

465
00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:08.279
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, yes, that it is so. When I am thriving,

466
00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:09.920
<v Speaker 2>when I have time, when I have space, when my

467
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:14.319
<v Speaker 2>nervous system is less activated, I can be more creative baseline.

468
00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:17.000
<v Speaker 2>And I think that there's this thing of like, oh,

469
00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:20.920
<v Speaker 2>because it is true that people have resisted through art

470
00:27:21.079 --> 00:27:23.799
<v Speaker 2>so much, and the art that people have created in

471
00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:28.599
<v Speaker 2>resistance has been so beautiful, there is i think an

472
00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:31.960
<v Speaker 2>assumption that like beauty would not exist that people were

473
00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:34.599
<v Speaker 2>not thriving. And I'm like, thriving doesn't mean that there's

474
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:38.839
<v Speaker 2>no pain. Life hurts, people die, like things happen, like

475
00:27:39.640 --> 00:27:43.480
<v Speaker 2>there is still going to always be suffering and pain

476
00:27:43.640 --> 00:27:50.240
<v Speaker 2>in life. And I think that the thing that thriving artists,

477
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:55.839
<v Speaker 2>healing artists get is that they get to translate that

478
00:27:55.960 --> 00:28:00.279
<v Speaker 2>pain into public understanding and an inspiration and whatever else

479
00:28:00.279 --> 00:28:03.599
<v Speaker 2>it wants to be from a place of being well

480
00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:07.880
<v Speaker 2>themselves instead of from a place of being hurt and

481
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:10.559
<v Speaker 2>poor and dying, which is so true of so many artists.

482
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:16.640
<v Speaker 1>Right, That's very, very true like I like to say,

483
00:28:16.759 --> 00:28:20.440
<v Speaker 1>you can authentically be from the streets without being in

484
00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:22.119
<v Speaker 1>the streets.

485
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely right. And also like, you know, my my friend

486
00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:29.400
<v Speaker 2>I have, dear friend Daniel, who runs obviously agency with me,

487
00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:31.359
<v Speaker 2>talks a lot about like not trying to get into

488
00:28:31.400 --> 00:28:32.799
<v Speaker 2>the impression Olympics with each other.

489
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:35.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, say it again, right, because like we're yeah,

490
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:38.559
<v Speaker 1>we're all because no one wins.

491
00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:40.359
<v Speaker 2>No one wins, right, because we're all. We all should

492
00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:41.640
<v Speaker 2>be on the same team. We al should be on

493
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:44.039
<v Speaker 2>the same team. We all should be in solidarity, even

494
00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:45.759
<v Speaker 2>you know, the people out here in their tech jobs.

495
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:48.480
<v Speaker 2>We are making two hundred thousand dollars a year still

496
00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:51.279
<v Speaker 2>in the scheme of the world and what's happening. We

497
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:54.079
<v Speaker 2>should be on the same team, right, Like it doesn't

498
00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:57.319
<v Speaker 2>feel like it because there's a lot of reasons why

499
00:28:58.359 --> 00:29:00.519
<v Speaker 2>forces don't want us to feel like we're on the

500
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:05.359
<v Speaker 2>same team. And yeah, I think that, And well again,

501
00:29:05.400 --> 00:29:07.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean, hey, we're circling back full circle to draw

502
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:11.400
<v Speaker 2>the Circle. Which is the other thing that feels really

503
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:14.279
<v Speaker 2>important to say about the sort of specific story at

504
00:29:14.279 --> 00:29:16.319
<v Speaker 2>the heart of Draw the Circle is that it's really

505
00:29:16.359 --> 00:29:23.359
<v Speaker 2>about at its core, Dean's relationship with his partner, and

506
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:30.440
<v Speaker 2>his parents, especially South Asian parents, conservative in the way

507
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:32.920
<v Speaker 2>that I think that a lot of South Asian people

508
00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:36.319
<v Speaker 2>of that generation are when coming in contact with queerness,

509
00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:41.240
<v Speaker 2>with gender queerness, et cetera, with transness. And the thing

510
00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:44.519
<v Speaker 2>that is so special about the play is, in so

511
00:29:44.599 --> 00:29:48.599
<v Speaker 2>many ways the thing that I think is so so

512
00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:52.559
<v Speaker 2>easy and so common to do and often right, I think,

513
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:55.359
<v Speaker 2>to do for protection, right of like, these people do

514
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:58.279
<v Speaker 2>not understand me, and so and they will not understand me,

515
00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:00.400
<v Speaker 2>and so I am going to draw a boundary. We

516
00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:02.799
<v Speaker 2>are going to disconnect, and this distance is going to

517
00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:06.400
<v Speaker 2>be created between us. The thing that Dean has done

518
00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:09.200
<v Speaker 2>in models in the play is being like, I refuse

519
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:11.759
<v Speaker 2>to do that. I am going to continue to reach out.

520
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:14.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to continue to seek understanding with these people

521
00:30:14.680 --> 00:30:17.079
<v Speaker 2>and continue to try to draw a circle that brings

522
00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:20.240
<v Speaker 2>them in. And so much of the play is the

523
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:23.680
<v Speaker 2>act of Dean choosing to do that and trying to

524
00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:27.400
<v Speaker 2>do that again and again, trying to be like, you're

525
00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:28.880
<v Speaker 2>not going to get this, but I'm going to tell

526
00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:31.400
<v Speaker 2>you these things and learning about myself and I'm going

527
00:30:31.640 --> 00:30:32.960
<v Speaker 2>and I'm going to love you, and I'm going to

528
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:35.839
<v Speaker 2>want you to love me back and understand me. And

529
00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:40.039
<v Speaker 2>I think that, Yeah, it's such a generous thing. I think,

530
00:30:40.119 --> 00:30:43.519
<v Speaker 2>especially in a moment where there is there are so

531
00:30:43.599 --> 00:30:49.480
<v Speaker 2>many echo chambers. There is such division that has been

532
00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:55.160
<v Speaker 2>created in society through politics, through how our social spaces

533
00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:59.640
<v Speaker 2>are like parasocial social media spaces are mediated that I

534
00:30:59.720 --> 00:31:06.119
<v Speaker 2>have been really inspired by the what I experienced is

535
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:10.960
<v Speaker 2>the radicalness of that, like, no, I'm not going to

536
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:14.240
<v Speaker 2>let this circle shut people out. I'm going to continue

537
00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:15.960
<v Speaker 2>to try to open it. And they continue to try

538
00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:18.759
<v Speaker 2>to tell people they belong, even when that's hard, even

539
00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:21.680
<v Speaker 2>when they've hurt me, especially when I might have hurt them,

540
00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:24.720
<v Speaker 2>especially when it's hard exactly. I find it very inspiring

541
00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:28.799
<v Speaker 2>and like, yeah, it's easier said than done, but it's

542
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:30.519
<v Speaker 2>the thing I'm thinking about a lot in my own

543
00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:31.359
<v Speaker 2>personal life.

544
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:38.240
<v Speaker 1>Nice So we talked about how your approach to the

545
00:31:38.359 --> 00:31:43.880
<v Speaker 1>character is influenced and informed by your own gender journey.

546
00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:50.559
<v Speaker 1>How much does your biracial identity come into play as well.

547
00:31:51.640 --> 00:31:52.480
<v Speaker 2>It's a great question.

548
00:31:52.759 --> 00:31:56.000
<v Speaker 1>It's another area that you and I like, Oh.

549
00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:59.079
<v Speaker 2>You're you're in the You're in the viracial as well.

550
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:05.519
<v Speaker 2>Respect the little village of us who all live together

551
00:32:05.559 --> 00:32:11.920
<v Speaker 2>and have meet ups. Yeah, I really again have been

552
00:32:11.960 --> 00:32:15.839
<v Speaker 2>another very good and complex question for me a biracial

553
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:20.720
<v Speaker 2>I am on my mom's side white American for many generations,

554
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:24.240
<v Speaker 2>but also that that ties back to like Ireland, England,

555
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:31.119
<v Speaker 2>Holland those types of places. And then on my dad's side,

556
00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:34.440
<v Speaker 2>my dad is a first generation immigrant from Bombladesh, so

557
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:37.720
<v Speaker 2>I am Bangladeshi just sort of like, I don't even

558
00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:38.279
<v Speaker 2>know how far.

559
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:43.319
<v Speaker 1>Back on that side since been sinceman, Yeah, who knows.

560
00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:46.400
<v Speaker 2>There's probably some other things in there far enough back,

561
00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:52.480
<v Speaker 2>but I don't know. And the thing that has been

562
00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:56.000
<v Speaker 2>so interesting in this is, especially as a biracial person,

563
00:32:56.960 --> 00:33:00.599
<v Speaker 2>what a what a complexity to being an actor in

564
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:03.759
<v Speaker 2>the American theater, because this is the first time I

565
00:33:03.759 --> 00:33:07.039
<v Speaker 2>have played, outside of my own work or a staged reading,

566
00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:11.400
<v Speaker 2>a South Asian person on stage. This is the first time,

567
00:33:11.400 --> 00:33:14.200
<v Speaker 2>outside of those contexts that I have had to use

568
00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:17.359
<v Speaker 2>any South Asian accent, had to do an Indian accent.

569
00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:21.880
<v Speaker 2>It's also the first time, therefore, also that I've played

570
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:27.200
<v Speaker 2>like a non Cis South Asian personage. I have played

571
00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:31.759
<v Speaker 2>so many other people. I have been Mexican, I have

572
00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:35.880
<v Speaker 2>been Hawaiian. I have been Haitian for some reason.

573
00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:41.279
<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, from the north side.

574
00:33:41.400 --> 00:33:46.319
<v Speaker 2>I like, this's been inside for a while from the

575
00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:53.200
<v Speaker 2>So it's really amazing to be in a story that

576
00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:58.200
<v Speaker 2>is so South Asians. It just like feels like such

577
00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:03.200
<v Speaker 2>an honor and such a rare circumstance for like the

578
00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:05.200
<v Speaker 2>moment and the person to align that I actually get

579
00:34:05.240 --> 00:34:10.719
<v Speaker 2>to be in this way nice and similarly to Transnis,

580
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:14.320
<v Speaker 2>I think in like, in stepping into this show, I've

581
00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:16.039
<v Speaker 2>had to struggle through a lot of feelings of not

582
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:19.440
<v Speaker 2>being trans enough and not being Asian enough to do

583
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:24.280
<v Speaker 2>the plan and I have and these are also just

584
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:26.440
<v Speaker 2>like struggles I have in my life. I have the

585
00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:29.719
<v Speaker 2>constant struggle I'm feeling Asian enough. A lot of this

586
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:33.400
<v Speaker 2>for me comes back to the fact that, unlike I

587
00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:36.079
<v Speaker 2>think a lot of South Asian families and Dean's family

588
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:38.519
<v Speaker 2>in the play, where there is this weight of a

589
00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:41.519
<v Speaker 2>whole bunch of cultural expectations that get put onto kids,

590
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:44.519
<v Speaker 2>I didn't really have them because of the way that

591
00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:46.480
<v Speaker 2>my family has made up. I was sort of more

592
00:34:46.519 --> 00:34:49.079
<v Speaker 2>thought of as like you're kind of like my white kid,

593
00:34:49.159 --> 00:34:52.559
<v Speaker 2>Like you're kind of your mom's kid. And like I'm

594
00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:55.519
<v Speaker 2>gonna not and there's some decision between the two of

595
00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:57.599
<v Speaker 2>them of like sort of which expectations would be laid

596
00:34:57.639 --> 00:34:59.719
<v Speaker 2>on me and which weren't. In some ways, that's been

597
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:03.639
<v Speaker 2>very and it's almost it's been very like alienating and

598
00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:07.920
<v Speaker 2>distancing from my identity and for my family. And so

599
00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:15.559
<v Speaker 2>it's been really interesting because I have had to navigate

600
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:18.000
<v Speaker 2>a lot through those feelings of not being Asian enough,

601
00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:21.559
<v Speaker 2>and it's been really lovely the moments. Some moments in

602
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:23.039
<v Speaker 2>the story I'm like, oh, yeah, man, this was not

603
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:26.079
<v Speaker 2>my experience at all. And then there's these other just

604
00:35:26.079 --> 00:35:28.159
<v Speaker 2>like small moments that will come out. Oh, I'm like, oh,

605
00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:31.760
<v Speaker 2>this is so Truely. There's this moment where a lot

606
00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:33.519
<v Speaker 2>of the play is based around this one thing, like

607
00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:36.480
<v Speaker 2>intense Thanksgiving that they had together, and at the end

608
00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:40.000
<v Speaker 2>of that Thanksgiving, the mom is describing like packing up

609
00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:41.800
<v Speaker 2>food to go and she's putting it in the yogurt

610
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:45.039
<v Speaker 2>containers and labeling it and then tying those up tightly

611
00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:46.840
<v Speaker 2>in a plastic bag so they won't leak. And I

612
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:49.880
<v Speaker 2>was just like, this is exactly what my mom and

613
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:52.840
<v Speaker 2>that she family does. Like to a tee, this is

614
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:55.480
<v Speaker 2>just like write on the notes, and so it's been

615
00:35:55.480 --> 00:35:59.159
<v Speaker 2>really lovely of finding those bits of connection and moments,

616
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.760
<v Speaker 2>and then a lot of it also being like, oh, yeah,

617
00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:06.159
<v Speaker 2>like I am, it is right that I'm in this story,

618
00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:09.079
<v Speaker 2>but I'm stepping into experiences that are not necessarily mine,

619
00:36:09.159 --> 00:36:13.239
<v Speaker 2>but are like within the culture that I exist in

620
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:16.159
<v Speaker 2>and come from. And once I got through some of

621
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:18.199
<v Speaker 2>my feelings about that, it has been a really lovely

622
00:36:18.280 --> 00:36:21.880
<v Speaker 2>experience to get to Yeah, to get to meet some

623
00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:25.039
<v Speaker 2>of those experiences from a place of embodiment, which as

624
00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:28.440
<v Speaker 2>a person who's like very kinesthetic, very in my body,

625
00:36:28.719 --> 00:36:33.199
<v Speaker 2>that has been. Yeah, it's felt like a real gift,

626
00:36:33.320 --> 00:36:36.480
<v Speaker 2>even though it's sometimes surreal, Like there's a sura from

627
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:40.199
<v Speaker 2>the Koran that I recite in the play, and my

628
00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:43.280
<v Speaker 2>father is Muslim, Muslim from any generations back on that side,

629
00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:46.639
<v Speaker 2>but I have not like been like Islam has not

630
00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:49.119
<v Speaker 2>been passed along to me in my family. And so

631
00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:52.039
<v Speaker 2>this was my first time reciting or learning or reciting

632
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:55.840
<v Speaker 2>any of the Quran, and I'm doing it on the

633
00:36:55.880 --> 00:36:59.320
<v Speaker 2>stage in a play for the paying public, and that

634
00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:03.519
<v Speaker 2>is kind of cool and also deeply weird.

635
00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:14.960
<v Speaker 1>Right, So, yeah, it sounds like you share that feeling

636
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:18.199
<v Speaker 1>that I get of like when you're a biracial person,

637
00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:22.039
<v Speaker 1>you are you have that insider and outsider perspective at

638
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:27.519
<v Speaker 1>the same time, and it's always fun like when you're

639
00:37:27.559 --> 00:37:30.719
<v Speaker 1>in mixed company, like the things that will get said

640
00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:33.360
<v Speaker 1>to you because they didn't think you were the thing

641
00:37:33.400 --> 00:37:33.880
<v Speaker 1>that there's.

642
00:37:35.199 --> 00:37:39.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, well right, Like even within multiracial biracial experience,

643
00:37:39.639 --> 00:37:41.159
<v Speaker 2>Like there are so many fridays of that, Like I

644
00:37:41.159 --> 00:37:43.679
<v Speaker 2>have a bunch of I have the great gift of

645
00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:47.199
<v Speaker 2>having met and understood so myself to be in community

646
00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:49.679
<v Speaker 2>with more biracial people as I've in like the last

647
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:51.760
<v Speaker 2>decade and in Philly, a lot of people I've met

648
00:37:51.760 --> 00:37:56.920
<v Speaker 2>through Papa are biracial or multi racial, and it's been

649
00:37:56.920 --> 00:37:59.840
<v Speaker 2>interesting also starting to notice some of the different nuances

650
00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:01.760
<v Speaker 2>of it, right of like yeah, like what is it

651
00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:04.719
<v Speaker 2>to be biracial but really have the cultural expectations versus

652
00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:06.920
<v Speaker 2>like really not as I have, Like that's a really

653
00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:10.320
<v Speaker 2>different experience. And I have friends who I joke with

654
00:38:11.599 --> 00:38:15.079
<v Speaker 2>about belonging to white mom's club. There's a bunch of

655
00:38:15.159 --> 00:38:16.400
<v Speaker 2>us who are like, yeah, we got but white mom,

656
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:18.760
<v Speaker 2>we got brown dad. That's one dynamic and we're like, Oh,

657
00:38:18.920 --> 00:38:20.880
<v Speaker 2>but the white Dad's club. That's a whole different dynamic,

658
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:22.960
<v Speaker 2>at least on the Asian side. Right, that's a whole

659
00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:27.880
<v Speaker 2>different thing. It shows up differently how stuff gets passed down,

660
00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:30.920
<v Speaker 2>even to like what your last name is, Like how

661
00:38:31.039 --> 00:38:35.440
<v Speaker 2>white coated is your last name? Right, white mom's club,

662
00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:37.280
<v Speaker 2>We got that brown last name a lot of the time.

663
00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:40.360
<v Speaker 2>That does different things as you're growing up. So it

664
00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:43.880
<v Speaker 2>is really interesting. I'm very fascinated by the nuances of

665
00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:48.559
<v Speaker 2>all this stuff and how culture and time and age

666
00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:53.639
<v Speaker 2>and racial identity, how all of those sort of forces

667
00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:56.400
<v Speaker 2>come together for any one person, I think is like

668
00:38:56.519 --> 00:39:00.360
<v Speaker 2>a deeply fascinating thing to explore. Yeah.

669
00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:04.239
<v Speaker 1>I love those moments of shorthand you get when you're

670
00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:09.199
<v Speaker 1>on that insider, insider side, and then those moments of

671
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:17.480
<v Speaker 1>observation almost like you know, like you you're Jane Goodall sometimes.

672
00:39:19.719 --> 00:39:22.760
<v Speaker 2>Totally yeah, outsider all the same time.

673
00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:29.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And every now and again I will come across

674
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:35.000
<v Speaker 1>some like the way someone will approach like I have

675
00:39:35.079 --> 00:39:40.480
<v Speaker 1>a friend Etola. He's a choreographer, and he and I

676
00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:45.639
<v Speaker 1>are so similar creatively in so many ways, like the

677
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:48.679
<v Speaker 1>way we the kind of music we like to use,

678
00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:53.000
<v Speaker 1>the way we hear the music, but the output is

679
00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:56.800
<v Speaker 1>so different from him, And sometimes I go, you were,

680
00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:00.280
<v Speaker 1>like me, if both my parents had been black, that's

681
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:04.760
<v Speaker 1>so interesting. You ever have like those kind of moments.

682
00:40:04.840 --> 00:40:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if I've ever had like

683
00:40:08.039 --> 00:40:11.280
<v Speaker 2>that exact thought about it person, but I mean, I

684
00:40:11.320 --> 00:40:14.239
<v Speaker 2>mean it's to some degree, you know, in like taking

685
00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:17.199
<v Speaker 2>a Dean story, I am like, oh, yeah, man, right,

686
00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:19.280
<v Speaker 2>if I had, if I had had two South Asian parents,

687
00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:21.559
<v Speaker 2>I would have gotten those cultural expectations, Like a lot

688
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:23.440
<v Speaker 2>of this stuff would have landed on me, like me

689
00:40:23.559 --> 00:40:25.159
<v Speaker 2>being a theater artist in a querness, like all of

690
00:40:25.159 --> 00:40:28.039
<v Speaker 2>these different things would have like I would have butted

691
00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:30.079
<v Speaker 2>up against these things directly in a way that I'm

692
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:34.719
<v Speaker 2>like sort of half glanced off of in a different way. Yeah,

693
00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:37.599
<v Speaker 2>it's so interesting. I'm very curious for you because this

694
00:40:37.719 --> 00:40:40.559
<v Speaker 2>was experience for me. It's like it it took me

695
00:40:40.719 --> 00:40:45.400
<v Speaker 2>until after college for me to like really start to

696
00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:48.800
<v Speaker 2>like connect to people around being biracial in like a

697
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:52.519
<v Speaker 2>deeper way, like I was sort of I feel like

698
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:54.480
<v Speaker 2>before that, I was sort of like, oh, kind of

699
00:40:54.559 --> 00:40:57.119
<v Speaker 2>not anything I don't or like this person's also right, verycial,

700
00:40:57.159 --> 00:40:58.400
<v Speaker 2>but we don't really know how to talk to each

701
00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:03.159
<v Speaker 2>other or like be in solidarity like communication around that. Really. Yeah,

702
00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:05.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm very curious what your experience of that has been

703
00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:06.840
<v Speaker 2>with like other biracial people.

704
00:41:08.840 --> 00:41:14.679
<v Speaker 1>With other biracial people, I've always we've always had that

705
00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:21.360
<v Speaker 1>kinship of you know, that insider outsider thing. I was

706
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:27.320
<v Speaker 1>always growing up as a biracial black person whose mother

707
00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:30.679
<v Speaker 1>was white and father was black, but living in a

708
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:34.360
<v Speaker 1>predominantly black neighborhood and going to predominantly black schools from

709
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:38.039
<v Speaker 1>K through twelve, I was never allowed to not think

710
00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:43.159
<v Speaker 1>about it because I would always be reminded. So it

711
00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:46.079
<v Speaker 1>wasn't until I got to college that I actually like

712
00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:53.039
<v Speaker 1>leaned into my blackness. So it's like you have to

713
00:41:53.159 --> 00:41:55.519
<v Speaker 1>go all the way to the other side before you

714
00:41:55.559 --> 00:41:59.039
<v Speaker 1>can like find that nice little because you know, I

715
00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:03.159
<v Speaker 1>was the white boy from K through twelve, and then

716
00:42:03.199 --> 00:42:05.400
<v Speaker 1>I was like going to go the other way in college.

717
00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:08.000
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, you find that sweet spot in the middle,

718
00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:13.360
<v Speaker 1>and you realize that's not as uncommon of a scenario.

719
00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:15.760
<v Speaker 2>Right you thought it these days twenty twenty six, Like

720
00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:19.719
<v Speaker 2>we're out here, Yeah, that's a well white mom's club.

721
00:42:20.679 --> 00:42:23.239
<v Speaker 2>Nice to know we're both in this club together.

722
00:42:23.079 --> 00:42:26.840
<v Speaker 1>Right, that needs to be a like an actual white.

723
00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:29.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean, Lissa, we can do meetups like, I'm here

724
00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:31.880
<v Speaker 2>for it. I think, well, I have so I have

725
00:42:31.880 --> 00:42:34.280
<v Speaker 2>a Cordoration child now because I'm a white partner and

726
00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:35.840
<v Speaker 2>we had a baby a little over a year ago.

727
00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:40.280
<v Speaker 2>And congratulations so much, because thank you so much. It's

728
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:43.400
<v Speaker 2>a delight and also it's the hardest thing ever. Uh huh.

729
00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:46.679
<v Speaker 2>And I'm thinking about a lot because I'm like, oh, man, Cordoration,

730
00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:49.559
<v Speaker 2>that's a whole different ballgame. I like, I don't know,

731
00:42:49.599 --> 00:42:51.000
<v Speaker 2>and I'm not going to assume I know what that

732
00:42:51.079 --> 00:42:53.360
<v Speaker 2>is going to be like for this person, right, And

733
00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:55.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm glad I have the knowledge to know that I

734
00:42:55.559 --> 00:42:58.559
<v Speaker 2>don't know. But I'm already like, oh, okay, like this

735
00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:01.079
<v Speaker 2>kid over here, I see you. You're also corre Asian.

736
00:43:01.159 --> 00:43:02.719
<v Speaker 2>Y'all should talk. I don't know if you're gonna care

737
00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:04.039
<v Speaker 2>to do that, but I want you to at least

738
00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:05.920
<v Speaker 2>like know each other so you can talk about some shit,

739
00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:09.320
<v Speaker 2>right right. But yeah, I mean I really relate to

740
00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:15.519
<v Speaker 2>that because I you know, especially as like growing up

741
00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:18.079
<v Speaker 2>in like a pretty diverse school district in South Jersey,

742
00:43:18.360 --> 00:43:22.679
<v Speaker 2>but like one that was pretty small on Asian people,

743
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:26.559
<v Speaker 2>like I very much was like I'm white, like that's

744
00:43:26.679 --> 00:43:28.480
<v Speaker 2>essentially what I am, Like, I'm kind of this other

745
00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:31.880
<v Speaker 2>thing about mostly white. And it also took me like

746
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:33.760
<v Speaker 2>a while to be like, no, I get to be

747
00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:37.079
<v Speaker 2>Asian too, and that's okay, and that's allowed and not

748
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:40.320
<v Speaker 2>just in a commodified way, which it can often be

749
00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:43.320
<v Speaker 2>because of theater, right, I mean it's part of why,

750
00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:46.679
<v Speaker 2>like I actually don't act as like acting as much

751
00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:48.760
<v Speaker 2>as it's what I've done the most of like regional

752
00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:51.400
<v Speaker 2>theater acting is not a big amount of what I

753
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:53.039
<v Speaker 2>do these days. I don't go out traditions a lot

754
00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:56.559
<v Speaker 2>because honestly, like it's uncomfortable, like as a person who

755
00:43:56.559 --> 00:43:59.159
<v Speaker 2>exists outside of like a little bit outside of gender

756
00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:01.679
<v Speaker 2>and very much outside I did easy racial categories, like

757
00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:05.000
<v Speaker 2>it could be really uncomfortable the kind of boxes that

758
00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:06.800
<v Speaker 2>I get put into, or the boxes that I'm just

759
00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:08.920
<v Speaker 2>like not thought of for because I'm sort of this

760
00:44:09.079 --> 00:44:13.639
<v Speaker 2>vague other And it often, even if it's not meant

761
00:44:13.639 --> 00:44:16.719
<v Speaker 2>to and even if people are like, you know, doing

762
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:18.880
<v Speaker 2>the best they can on the artistic director's side, it

763
00:44:18.920 --> 00:44:20.960
<v Speaker 2>can feel really oppressive a lot of times.

764
00:44:21.679 --> 00:44:24.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I remember, like if I had a nickel for

765
00:44:24.360 --> 00:44:27.519
<v Speaker 1>every time someone said you could be angel in Rent

766
00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:33.719
<v Speaker 1>that's a thing for you, right, I guess now that

767
00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:35.280
<v Speaker 1>would be like you could be in Hamilton.

768
00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:39.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yep, totally totally.

769
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:43.199
<v Speaker 1>Because that's that's what there is for brown folks, because

770
00:44:43.239 --> 00:44:43.639
<v Speaker 1>that's right.

771
00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:45.639
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I mean that's one of the reasons that like,

772
00:44:46.760 --> 00:44:48.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, I think like I mean, like plays like this,

773
00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:52.239
<v Speaker 2>like making while I also care about making my own

774
00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:55.360
<v Speaker 2>work and making new work so much is there's I

775
00:44:55.400 --> 00:45:00.199
<v Speaker 2>think what we rely on existing cannon for the kind

776
00:45:00.199 --> 00:45:02.760
<v Speaker 2>of art that we're doing, especially in an art forum

777
00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:05.159
<v Speaker 2>that interacts with bodies in the way that theater does.

778
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:09.719
<v Speaker 2>It really limits the stories we're able to tell. It

779
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:11.719
<v Speaker 2>really limits the kind of experiences that we can put

780
00:45:11.760 --> 00:45:15.880
<v Speaker 2>on stage because we're constantly asking people of like really rich,

781
00:45:16.039 --> 00:45:20.480
<v Speaker 2>interesting experiences in their bodies to fit themselves into Tennessee Williams, right,

782
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:23.000
<v Speaker 2>and to fit themselves into whatever or we're like in Shakespeare.

783
00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:27.360
<v Speaker 2>But it's now, it's a it's you know, now's Asians, right,

784
00:45:27.400 --> 00:45:27.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, I know.

785
00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:31.800
<v Speaker 1>Like what do we which also sounds like weird, I.

786
00:45:31.719 --> 00:45:34.440
<v Speaker 2>Mean yeah, but it's you know it and there's there's

787
00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:37.519
<v Speaker 2>nothing wrong with doing that, But I think that and

788
00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:39.440
<v Speaker 2>I respect people who are like, that's my back, that's

789
00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:41.159
<v Speaker 2>what I want to do. I think the thing that

790
00:45:41.199 --> 00:45:44.760
<v Speaker 2>I know for myself is that I am most called

791
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:47.079
<v Speaker 2>to new stuff. And even though this play has been

792
00:45:47.079 --> 00:45:48.880
<v Speaker 2>around for a bit, it feels like it falls draw

793
00:45:48.920 --> 00:45:50.639
<v Speaker 2>the circle, feels like it falls into that for me

794
00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:54.320
<v Speaker 2>because it is such a is so personal, it is

795
00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:58.960
<v Speaker 2>so brave, it is it is so fresh, and even

796
00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:01.400
<v Speaker 2>in like no that me coming to it is kind

797
00:46:01.400 --> 00:46:04.599
<v Speaker 2>of changing the play that I really feel as an actor,

798
00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:07.360
<v Speaker 2>like I'm artistically in conversation with the play and with

799
00:46:07.400 --> 00:46:09.000
<v Speaker 2>the play right even know we haven't like actually had

800
00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:11.320
<v Speaker 2>a conversation with each other, and it feels really rare.

801
00:46:11.320 --> 00:46:14.000
<v Speaker 2>As an actor. We'll often I feel more like I'm like, great,

802
00:46:14.039 --> 00:46:17.519
<v Speaker 2>you needed you needed this box to be filled, and

803
00:46:17.599 --> 00:46:20.960
<v Speaker 2>I was close enough to it. So we're gonna put this,

804
00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:23.199
<v Speaker 2>squish this a little and put that foot into that

805
00:46:23.239 --> 00:46:25.440
<v Speaker 2>Cinderella shue and it does not fit great.

806
00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:29.400
<v Speaker 1>But the best part about that is after you like

807
00:46:29.719 --> 00:46:32.840
<v Speaker 1>got yourself comfortable in that box, that box will never

808
00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:34.679
<v Speaker 1>fit anyone else again.

809
00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:39.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly.

810
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:45.920
<v Speaker 1>So ha take that bugs take that far. I'm I

811
00:46:45.960 --> 00:46:50.000
<v Speaker 1>know we've touched on this just organically through the conversation

812
00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:53.559
<v Speaker 1>when I'm going to ask the official question, So, in

813
00:46:53.599 --> 00:47:00.199
<v Speaker 1>the process of getting ready to do this show, what

814
00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:05.079
<v Speaker 1>was your biggest challenge and your biggest I'm going to

815
00:47:05.159 --> 00:47:07.400
<v Speaker 1>use the word triumph, but I can that can also

816
00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:08.679
<v Speaker 1>be to be joyful moment.

817
00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:17.480
<v Speaker 2>That's a great question. I think that like there's kind

818
00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:21.840
<v Speaker 2>of two challenges depending on the perspective. I think the

819
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:27.599
<v Speaker 2>most obvious challenge is the just the time required to

820
00:47:27.679 --> 00:47:29.599
<v Speaker 2>like get this plan into my body. Like this is

821
00:47:30.760 --> 00:47:33.239
<v Speaker 2>every day I'm in rehearsal, it's just me working the

822
00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:36.519
<v Speaker 2>whole time. It's just me speaking the whole time. If

823
00:47:36.559 --> 00:47:38.159
<v Speaker 2>I'm learning lines, you know, often if you're in a

824
00:47:38.199 --> 00:47:40.440
<v Speaker 2>show with five people in it, like there, if they're

825
00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:42.199
<v Speaker 2>doing their scene, I'm learning my lines over here while

826
00:47:42.199 --> 00:47:44.079
<v Speaker 2>I'm in the rehearsal room, right or like that's part

827
00:47:44.079 --> 00:47:46.440
<v Speaker 2>of the sort of process it can be. And I

828
00:47:46.480 --> 00:47:49.159
<v Speaker 2>was like I had to put in I don't know

829
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:51.320
<v Speaker 2>if it was equal, but like probably close to the

830
00:47:51.320 --> 00:47:53.880
<v Speaker 2>same amount of time I put in in rehearsal. Outside

831
00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:56.039
<v Speaker 2>of rehearsal, like in the month beating up and in

832
00:47:56.039 --> 00:47:59.840
<v Speaker 2>the days around it, like learning lines, like working on

833
00:48:00.199 --> 00:48:02.760
<v Speaker 2>sense like there's like seven eight accents in the show

834
00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:07.079
<v Speaker 2>something like that into my body being able to show

835
00:48:07.159 --> 00:48:09.239
<v Speaker 2>up for rehearsal and actually be able to work and

836
00:48:09.239 --> 00:48:12.960
<v Speaker 2>actually be able to do like generative productive acting work.

837
00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:15.280
<v Speaker 2>And that's hard. It's hard when like you know, regional

838
00:48:15.320 --> 00:48:18.639
<v Speaker 2>hitters are hurting for money, Like it wouldn't be a

839
00:48:18.639 --> 00:48:21.519
<v Speaker 2>problem if we were in a resource our its ecosystem,

840
00:48:21.519 --> 00:48:24.119
<v Speaker 2>which we are not. And so you know, Heedro is

841
00:48:24.159 --> 00:48:26.119
<v Speaker 2>not able to pay me the amount that would make

842
00:48:26.159 --> 00:48:28.559
<v Speaker 2>that really easy to say yes too. And so that's

843
00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:30.239
<v Speaker 2>a struggle because I care about doing the work, I

844
00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:34.079
<v Speaker 2>care about doing it well, and the reality is that

845
00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:37.000
<v Speaker 2>like the money to support that is not there for anyone, right,

846
00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:41.599
<v Speaker 2>at least not in this scale. Right. I think the

847
00:48:42.199 --> 00:48:44.360
<v Speaker 2>thing that's a little bit more tender for me, that

848
00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:47.039
<v Speaker 2>I think actually connects to Triumph a little bit, is

849
00:48:47.320 --> 00:48:49.719
<v Speaker 2>so much dialect work, Like this is a really dialect

850
00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:54.840
<v Speaker 2>work heavy show. I'm doing two different types of Indian accents,

851
00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:59.000
<v Speaker 2>each differentiating between two characters apiece. For those accents, I'm

852
00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:02.119
<v Speaker 2>doing a coaster we can a Mexican accent, a British accent,

853
00:49:02.440 --> 00:49:07.119
<v Speaker 2>a West Virginian accent. I'm doing so much and it's

854
00:49:07.239 --> 00:49:09.480
<v Speaker 2>not a place of comfort for me as an actor,

855
00:49:10.119 --> 00:49:12.880
<v Speaker 2>strangely than many other things about the show, like generally like,

856
00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:15.320
<v Speaker 2>oh yeah, it's just me on stage for any minutes,

857
00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:16.840
<v Speaker 2>I have to learn how many lines, like all that

858
00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:18.639
<v Speaker 2>stuff does not scare me. It's a lot of work,

859
00:49:18.679 --> 00:49:21.199
<v Speaker 2>but it doesn't scare me. I fay eighteen characters in

860
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:23.679
<v Speaker 2>my body. Sure I can embody that doesn't scare me,

861
00:49:24.639 --> 00:49:28.039
<v Speaker 2>but the accents do. And it's definitely been a journey.

862
00:49:28.599 --> 00:49:30.400
<v Speaker 2>I think part of the triumph is that, like I've

863
00:49:30.440 --> 00:49:32.800
<v Speaker 2>had some crunchy moments with it because we've had a

864
00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:39.039
<v Speaker 2>really wonderful dialect coach Gurkinan, who's is London based, work

865
00:49:39.079 --> 00:49:41.360
<v Speaker 2>with me on the Indian accents primarily, and I had

866
00:49:41.400 --> 00:49:43.079
<v Speaker 2>a couple other people in the process who were able

867
00:49:43.159 --> 00:49:45.920
<v Speaker 2>to help me a little bit with as well as

868
00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:48.760
<v Speaker 2>gooking on on some of the Hispanic accents and other

869
00:49:48.760 --> 00:49:50.519
<v Speaker 2>pieces of it who like have them in their years

870
00:49:50.519 --> 00:49:54.840
<v Speaker 2>a bit. And I don't know that I'm doing perfect work.

871
00:49:54.880 --> 00:49:57.039
<v Speaker 2>I don't think anyone is. I think that's an unrealistic

872
00:49:57.079 --> 00:49:59.599
<v Speaker 2>expectation for accent work, especially with this many things back

873
00:49:59.599 --> 00:50:02.239
<v Speaker 2>to back. I actually feel like I'm in a place

874
00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:08.039
<v Speaker 2>coming into this week of previews where I'm feeling pretty

875
00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:11.000
<v Speaker 2>confident in the work that I'm doing, and that is

876
00:50:11.119 --> 00:50:14.840
<v Speaker 2>really feels really exciting for me because it felt like

877
00:50:15.519 --> 00:50:17.559
<v Speaker 2>I had told myself I think for a while that like, oh,

878
00:50:17.639 --> 00:50:19.280
<v Speaker 2>this is kind of a growing edge or like something

879
00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:21.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm not particularly good at, and I think being able

880
00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:24.800
<v Speaker 2>to see myself rise to the challenge of like navigating

881
00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:29.800
<v Speaker 2>this many different accents with like not minimal support, but

882
00:50:29.840 --> 00:50:33.559
<v Speaker 2>not with like a ton of support time wise around

883
00:50:33.559 --> 00:50:36.960
<v Speaker 2>it has been really like exciting and empowering for me

884
00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:37.679
<v Speaker 2>as a performer.

885
00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:41.599
<v Speaker 1>Have you chosen a favorite accent, like a favorite one

886
00:50:41.639 --> 00:50:41.880
<v Speaker 1>to do?

887
00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:47.239
<v Speaker 2>What a good question? I still find them kind of

888
00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:52.480
<v Speaker 2>scary to do outside of a rehearsal, but I think

889
00:50:52.519 --> 00:50:56.599
<v Speaker 2>that it's a good question. I think that the speaking

890
00:50:56.639 --> 00:51:00.480
<v Speaker 2>as the mom in the play has been really lovely

891
00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:07.880
<v Speaker 2>for me, her like particular kind of American influenced diasporas

892
00:51:07.880 --> 00:51:10.719
<v Speaker 2>South Indian accent. I feel like it's taken me a

893
00:51:10.760 --> 00:51:14.079
<v Speaker 2>while to find it, but really, yeah, I really love

894
00:51:14.119 --> 00:51:17.519
<v Speaker 2>that character and I'm really enjoying playing her a lot.

895
00:51:17.840 --> 00:51:20.159
<v Speaker 1>I love it, and I this is going to be

896
00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:26.440
<v Speaker 1>fun for me because I always love hearing like Indian

897
00:51:26.480 --> 00:51:33.079
<v Speaker 1>accents across the diaspora, and like it always just sounds

898
00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:37.840
<v Speaker 1>so smart to me, Like I when I think, like

899
00:51:38.320 --> 00:51:41.719
<v Speaker 1>the sound of like true intelligence, it's an Indian woman

900
00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:45.880
<v Speaker 1>that you know, Except I tried to turn my SyRI

901
00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:48.039
<v Speaker 1>into an Indian woman because they give you that option,

902
00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:52.679
<v Speaker 1>but like having that voice in a in a subservient

903
00:51:52.719 --> 00:51:55.199
<v Speaker 1>position just didn't sit well with me, so I switched.

904
00:51:58.239 --> 00:52:00.119
<v Speaker 2>She has she has to be telling me what.

905
00:52:01.960 --> 00:52:07.039
<v Speaker 1>I can't do this to you, says I'm sorry. So

906
00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:10.440
<v Speaker 1>what is the takeaway you would like for the audience

907
00:52:10.519 --> 00:52:10.960
<v Speaker 1>to have?

908
00:52:11.400 --> 00:52:11.800
<v Speaker 2>Uh?

909
00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:13.599
<v Speaker 1>With this show? Withdraw the Circle?

910
00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:19.199
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think the show sort of wears its

911
00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:20.800
<v Speaker 2>objective on its sleep in a way. I think that

912
00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:24.559
<v Speaker 2>the title Draw the Circle both describes sort of the

913
00:52:24.559 --> 00:52:29.119
<v Speaker 2>theatrical mechanism of the many characters reflecting Dean and also

914
00:52:30.119 --> 00:52:32.719
<v Speaker 2>the like core action of the play, which is to

915
00:52:32.760 --> 00:52:37.639
<v Speaker 2>be which is this kind of radical inclusion feels buzzworthy.

916
00:52:38.079 --> 00:52:39.719
<v Speaker 2>So I'm going to find other words to say it.

917
00:52:41.320 --> 00:52:48.159
<v Speaker 2>The choice to seek commonality, love and understanding where it

918
00:52:48.159 --> 00:52:54.039
<v Speaker 2>would be easier not tom that I think, to me

919
00:52:54.159 --> 00:52:58.119
<v Speaker 2>really feels like the core of this play and to

920
00:52:58.239 --> 00:53:03.440
<v Speaker 2>embrace the process of like we're making these jokes in

921
00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:06.719
<v Speaker 2>a rehearsal, we're just like words that have trans and

922
00:53:06.760 --> 00:53:09.519
<v Speaker 2>then we'll like separate them out the transformation or the

923
00:53:09.559 --> 00:53:11.840
<v Speaker 2>section of you know, in the plane that we refer

924
00:53:11.920 --> 00:53:16.280
<v Speaker 2>to that the transformation of monologue, but yeah, the transformation

925
00:53:16.440 --> 00:53:19.280
<v Speaker 2>of relationship, the transformation of like how we think about

926
00:53:19.280 --> 00:53:22.039
<v Speaker 2>each other. That has to happen in order to like

927
00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:26.320
<v Speaker 2>come together across those kinds of differences and misunderstandings generationally, culturally,

928
00:53:26.400 --> 00:53:30.920
<v Speaker 2>whatever like that is, I think, and I think I

929
00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:33.440
<v Speaker 2>would argue, at least to me, this play posits that

930
00:53:33.480 --> 00:53:35.440
<v Speaker 2>there is a like a queerness in that act, that

931
00:53:35.480 --> 00:53:37.639
<v Speaker 2>there is a like a transness in the act of

932
00:53:37.719 --> 00:53:42.079
<v Speaker 2>like looking at these relationships and believing they can transform

933
00:53:42.519 --> 00:53:45.079
<v Speaker 2>into something that like will be truer and more full

934
00:53:45.119 --> 00:53:48.840
<v Speaker 2>of love and reflect the people in the matter, even

935
00:53:48.880 --> 00:53:51.159
<v Speaker 2>if that might be uncomfortable and strange and it might

936
00:53:51.239 --> 00:53:54.519
<v Speaker 2>look like nothing you've seen before. Believing in that transformation

937
00:53:54.599 --> 00:53:57.280
<v Speaker 2>and stepping into it with your soul and with your

938
00:53:57.320 --> 00:53:59.639
<v Speaker 2>body and with your words, and so the thing I

939
00:53:59.679 --> 00:54:02.800
<v Speaker 2>hope hope for this people, for this play is that

940
00:54:03.519 --> 00:54:05.480
<v Speaker 2>at least the thing I am taking away is that

941
00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:10.039
<v Speaker 2>for those relationships that you have in your life where

942
00:54:10.039 --> 00:54:13.320
<v Speaker 2>there is love, where there is connection, but it's hard,

943
00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:17.920
<v Speaker 2>and there's hurt, and there's misunderstanding, as there's mistrust, and

944
00:54:18.039 --> 00:54:20.840
<v Speaker 2>knowing that right, not every relationship can be salvaged. That

945
00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:25.960
<v Speaker 2>is true, not every thing can be fixed, or there

946
00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:28.840
<v Speaker 2>is the desire to fix. But for those ones that

947
00:54:28.920 --> 00:54:32.480
<v Speaker 2>are hard, but there is still that desire in there

948
00:54:32.559 --> 00:54:37.639
<v Speaker 2>somewhere to keep trying to try again, to try simply

949
00:54:38.039 --> 00:54:41.679
<v Speaker 2>to try over time, to try consistently. It is the

950
00:54:41.679 --> 00:54:44.159
<v Speaker 2>inspiration that I have taken away from this play. And

951
00:54:44.559 --> 00:54:46.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, as my dad is aging, as like I'm

952
00:54:46.639 --> 00:54:50.119
<v Speaker 2>figuring out how to teach my child, who the world

953
00:54:50.199 --> 00:54:53.000
<v Speaker 2>is going to mostly socialize is white about being Bangladeshi,

954
00:54:53.039 --> 00:54:56.000
<v Speaker 2>about that side of himself. As I try to figure out,

955
00:54:56.039 --> 00:54:58.440
<v Speaker 2>like what does that look like? What is the work

956
00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:01.360
<v Speaker 2>that I'm able to put in on the somewhat complicated

957
00:55:01.400 --> 00:55:04.280
<v Speaker 2>relationships I have with that side of my family. Dean

958
00:55:04.400 --> 00:55:09.000
<v Speaker 2>has been so inspiring in yeah, just modeling what it

959
00:55:09.039 --> 00:55:12.760
<v Speaker 2>looks like to like to keep trying, to keep trying

960
00:55:12.800 --> 00:55:17.280
<v Speaker 2>to keep reaching out and that that actually, in its simplicity,

961
00:55:17.360 --> 00:55:21.800
<v Speaker 2>can cause some pretty amazing transformations. So I hope that

962
00:55:21.800 --> 00:55:25.280
<v Speaker 2>people leave the play like loving the trans people in

963
00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:27.599
<v Speaker 2>their lives better. I hope people leave the play loving

964
00:55:27.639 --> 00:55:30.079
<v Speaker 2>themselves better. I hope they leave the play loving an

965
00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:33.159
<v Speaker 2>immigrant in their lives better. I hope they leave the

966
00:55:33.199 --> 00:55:38.039
<v Speaker 2>play like thinking about the circles they draw, and who

967
00:55:38.039 --> 00:55:41.239
<v Speaker 2>else could be including them, who isn't, and whether they themselves,

968
00:55:41.920 --> 00:55:45.079
<v Speaker 2>at the deepest level, are really included in the circle

969
00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:45.719
<v Speaker 2>that they're drawing.

970
00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:48.599
<v Speaker 1>Lovely, so it's not so much to take away as

971
00:55:48.599 --> 00:55:49.199
<v Speaker 1>a taking in.

972
00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:53.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I like exactly, exactly, And.

973
00:55:53.039 --> 00:55:55.880
<v Speaker 1>I was also sitting here thinking about, you know, drawing

974
00:55:56.000 --> 00:56:01.679
<v Speaker 1>circles as opposed to drawing lines. I like that that. So,

975
00:56:01.960 --> 00:56:09.320
<v Speaker 1>as we said, this play is starting on January twenty first,

976
00:56:10.159 --> 00:56:13.800
<v Speaker 1>so at the time of this recording, that is tomorrow.

977
00:56:13.960 --> 00:56:17.199
<v Speaker 1>So by the time this episode comes out, there will

978
00:56:17.239 --> 00:56:20.519
<v Speaker 1>be plenty of time for everyone within the sound of

979
00:56:20.519 --> 00:56:26.679
<v Speaker 1>our voices to get tickets and experience this wonderful show.

980
00:56:27.639 --> 00:56:29.440
<v Speaker 1>We will be there, Martha and I will be there

981
00:56:29.440 --> 00:56:33.880
<v Speaker 1>this weekend. And I am more excited now than I

982
00:56:33.920 --> 00:56:35.599
<v Speaker 1>was before. And that's saying something.

983
00:56:35.880 --> 00:56:36.360
<v Speaker 2>I love that.

984
00:56:36.760 --> 00:56:40.360
<v Speaker 1>So we will definitely put the information on how to

985
00:56:40.400 --> 00:56:45.159
<v Speaker 1>get tickets in the notes to this episode. If people

986
00:56:45.159 --> 00:56:49.639
<v Speaker 1>wanted to learn more about you, Joseph and what you do,

987
00:56:50.079 --> 00:56:50.920
<v Speaker 1>where could they go?

988
00:56:51.400 --> 00:56:56.039
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely there are two places for me personally sadly someone

989
00:56:56.039 --> 00:56:58.199
<v Speaker 2>out of date website. I have a lop date and

990
00:56:58.199 --> 00:57:03.440
<v Speaker 2>I swear everyone ww dot Joseph Ahmed dot com, so

991
00:57:03.519 --> 00:57:05.480
<v Speaker 2>people are welcome to look me up there and connect

992
00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:08.800
<v Speaker 2>with me means for that, and then also I'll shout

993
00:57:08.800 --> 00:57:13.119
<v Speaker 2>out both my company, UH Obvious agency that makes interactive

994
00:57:13.199 --> 00:57:19.960
<v Speaker 2>performances we Our website is www dot Obvious dash Agency

995
00:57:20.239 --> 00:57:24.239
<v Speaker 2>dot com. And then PAPA, which I also talked about,

996
00:57:24.280 --> 00:57:28.599
<v Speaker 2>Philly Fluffy Asian Performing Artists is Philly Asian Artists dot com.

997
00:57:28.679 --> 00:57:31.679
<v Speaker 2>So you can connect with me and for for for

998
00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:34.599
<v Speaker 2>a variety of reasons, in a variety of ways. Multi

999
00:57:34.679 --> 00:57:38.639
<v Speaker 2>hyphen it, multi hyphen it that all the hyphens, how

1000
00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:40.960
<v Speaker 2>to do it succinctly, I'll never know right.

1001
00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:45.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, listen, it's no big deal.

1002
00:57:46.239 --> 00:57:46.960
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate that.

1003
00:57:47.119 --> 00:57:51.440
<v Speaker 1>So, Joseph Ahmed, this has been a wonderful conversation. I

1004
00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:54.519
<v Speaker 1>hope you enjoyed it as much as I did absolutely

1005
00:57:55.199 --> 00:57:57.639
<v Speaker 1>and I have a feeling this will not be the

1006
00:57:57.719 --> 00:58:01.000
<v Speaker 1>last time you join us at the Full Circle Table.

1007
00:58:01.639 --> 00:58:07.280
<v Speaker 1>I hope so. So until next time, thank you very

1008
00:58:07.360 --> 00:58:10.320
<v Speaker 1>much for sharing your time and energy, and you have

1009
00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:16.920
<v Speaker 1>a fabulous day. Sand you bye everyone. Full Circle is

1010
00:58:16.920 --> 00:58:20.760
<v Speaker 1>a Never Skurreed Productions podcast hosted by Charles Tyson Junior

1011
00:58:20.840 --> 00:58:24.920
<v Speaker 1>and Martha Madrigal, Produced and edited by Never Scurred Executive

1012
00:58:24.920 --> 00:58:28.280
<v Speaker 1>Produced by Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal. Our theme

1013
00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:32.599
<v Speaker 1>in music is by the jingle Berries. All names, pictures, music, audio,

1014
00:58:32.639 --> 00:58:35.920
<v Speaker 1>and video clips are registered trademarks and or copyrights of

1015
00:58:35.960 --> 00:58:37.880
<v Speaker 1>their respective copyright holders.