Speaker 1: Greetings, Full Circle listeners. This is your host, Charles Tyson Jr.
Speaker 1: The following interview with Joseph Ahmed is a delightful conversation
Speaker 1: that you are going to enjoy. Just a quick note,
Speaker 1: sometimes technology is not my friend. So if it sounds
Speaker 1: like I'm yelling from across the room into the computer
Speaker 1: for all intents and purposes, let's just say that's what happened.
Speaker 1: It gets better and then it's fine. Hope you enjoy
Speaker 1: the show and thank you for listening. Coming to you
Speaker 1: from the dining room table at East Barbary Lane. Welcome
Speaker 1: to another special episode a Full Circle the podcast. I
Speaker 1: am your host Charles Tyson Junior and two days guest
Speaker 1: I am thrilled to sit down and chat with. They
Speaker 1: are an artist of many mini mediums which automatically earns
Speaker 1: a warm spot in my heart. Starting January twenty first,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, they will be starring in the one
Speaker 1: person show Draw the Circle, presented by Hedgerow Theater Company
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia. We're going to hear a lot about that,
Speaker 1: I'm sure, plus countless other fabulous and fears things from
Speaker 1: our guest, Joseph Ahmed. Welcome to the Full Circle Table.
Speaker 2: Joseph, thank you, it's late to be here. It is
Speaker 2: a pleasure to have you.
Speaker 1: So, as I said, you are an artist who likes
Speaker 1: to you like hyphens from what I did say, so
Speaker 1: besides being an actor a thespian, how many hyphens are
Speaker 1: we talking here?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I do love a hyphen It's always
Speaker 2: difficult to talk about the many things I do in
Speaker 2: a way that this is synct and so, especially in
Speaker 2: my most recent bio, I just started using the word
Speaker 2: over hyphenated to describe myself, which is it's really doing
Speaker 2: good for me right now. So I don't know the
Speaker 2: exact number. I think my current bio has something like
Speaker 2: ten or so different things all linked together with the
Speaker 2: little dashes. I come from an acting background primarily, that's
Speaker 2: the main thing I've been trained to do. I went
Speaker 2: to a theater Arts BFA program at Boston University for college,
Speaker 2: but sort of from there, I've expanded into so many
Speaker 2: different things. I act, I direct, I'm a playwright, I'm
Speaker 2: a dancer. I've worked as a circus artist. I'm a
Speaker 2: teaching artist across both theater and circus. I have founded
Speaker 2: my own company that focuses on interactive performance, so things
Speaker 2: that are immersive and also like sort of ennshed with
Speaker 2: game design. I have a bunch of musical instruments. There's
Speaker 2: probably a bunch of things that I'm forgetting many things
Speaker 2: on the admin side as well. I feel like, as
Speaker 2: is true of many different Philadelphia artists, I am very
Speaker 2: much like I think a truth of this scene unless
Speaker 2: you're really trying to be in a particular niche is
Speaker 2: that a lot of the most exciting stuff, while there's
Speaker 2: not a lot of money attached to it, happens in
Speaker 2: sort of that realm where everyone is like wants to
Speaker 2: be and is doing a million things at once and
Speaker 2: juggling all of their hats. So apart from literally being
Speaker 2: a juggler, which I am, I also metaphorically juggle my
Speaker 2: many hyphens and hats across all the things I do.
Speaker 1: That's called being marketable.
Speaker 2: That's right, so long as you figure out how to
Speaker 2: talk about it all market right.
Speaker 1: I used to just say I do things.
Speaker 2: I mean honestly, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like and a lot of it comes from necessity.
Speaker 1: It's like, I can't afford to hire a graphic designers,
Speaker 1: so I guess I better learn how to do graphic design.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my primary at my company that I co founded
Speaker 2: off this agency, My primary job right now is doing
Speaker 2: a lot of our like grant running and development work,
Speaker 2: which was not a thing I set out to do,
Speaker 2: but I have had to learn it by necessity and
Speaker 2: now I am good at it. And that is the
Speaker 2: reality of living this life valuable.
Speaker 1: I always think of that old in Living Color sketch,
Speaker 1: the Jamaican family, the Headleys, and they all have like
Speaker 1: ten thousand jobs, and the wife is like the meta D.
Speaker 1: I serve the tea and look at me, I'm heavy.
Speaker 1: D Like, That's always what I say.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 1: So are you a Philadelphia native?
Speaker 2: Two people not from this area? Yes, to people from
Speaker 2: this area. No, I'm from South Jersey. I grew up
Speaker 2: in Pittsack, and so like the twenty minute drive from
Speaker 2: the Ben Franklin Bridge, so very much in meshed in
Speaker 2: a lot of Philly culture, rotten for the Eagles, all
Speaker 2: that good stuff, Go birds, Go birds. Exactly what a
Speaker 2: season that's been, Oh my god. But yeah, but so
Speaker 2: I was in this, you know the situation of like
Speaker 2: coming to Philly constantly for field trips and visits and
Speaker 2: et cetera. And I did a bunch of like theater
Speaker 2: things here in the city when I was a teenager
Speaker 2: and whatnot. But then after I went to college, I
Speaker 2: moved back to the city formerly and I think it
Speaker 2: was twenty late twenty fourteen, early twenty fifteen, okay, And
Speaker 2: so it's been a little over a decade that I've
Speaker 2: been fully enmeshed in Philly and living in the city.
Speaker 1: Now, okay, so you did the reverse of me. I
Speaker 1: lived in Philly for I'm just going to say multiple
Speaker 1: decades and then moved to South Jersey. And I always
Speaker 1: say it takes the same amount of time to cross
Speaker 1: the bridge and go to Philly as it took me
Speaker 1: to ride the thirty four trolley into Center City.
Speaker 2: So absolutely, absolutely, it just happens to be that there's
Speaker 2: a different state and a cover.
Speaker 1: Charge coverage charge, get at. I never thought of it
Speaker 1: that way, but yeah, and I should start asking at
Speaker 1: the toll like I ask at clubs, what does this
Speaker 1: get me? Besides in.
Speaker 2: I love that, But now it's not even like a
Speaker 2: person there. Most of the time you're just like yelling
Speaker 2: at the easy.
Speaker 1: Past thing exactly. And you know, the extroverted introvert that
Speaker 1: I am. I love easy pass.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, tell me about it. Not having to
Speaker 2: have a random transaction. It's great.
Speaker 1: Like the first time I ever ordered grub hub and
Speaker 1: didn't have to speak to someone, I was like, this
Speaker 1: is the golden age. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's so funny because you know, as someone who
Speaker 2: is you know, the thing I've spent the most time
Speaker 2: on artistically in my life is acting, and I so
Speaker 2: really I relate to this so hard. I'm like, I
Speaker 2: do not want to have that little transaction. I don't
Speaker 2: want to do it. It is so stressful for me.
Speaker 2: But oh going on stage and doing a ninety minute
Speaker 2: solo performance in front of strangers, great, love it, eat
Speaker 2: it up.
Speaker 1: How insane is that?
Speaker 2: It's so it's I mean, I've been thinking about it
Speaker 2: my whole life and like, what is this? What does
Speaker 2: this mean about me? What is the psychology of this?
Speaker 2: I don't have great answers. I have many conjectures.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I I was thinking about this recently. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, for years, I just thought I was the
Speaker 1: hugest whore, just out there all the time, putting my
Speaker 1: face everywhere, making sure that I'm seen and heard. But
Speaker 1: the second I'm not on stage or just on it's like,
Speaker 1: don't look at me. So my life was like look
Speaker 1: at me, look at myself, looking at.
Speaker 2: Me totally totally. It's like, you know, I really I've
Speaker 2: been thinking about this with this particular show too, with
Speaker 2: called The Circle, because I really struggle with like sort
Speaker 2: of coming out as an actor after the show and
Speaker 2: like greeting people and having conversations. I want to do it,
Speaker 2: but then I'm also like, I just have so much
Speaker 2: I have a lot of social anxiety baseline, and so
Speaker 2: a lot of it comes up around that where I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: I want to come out and be available to people
Speaker 2: to talk to if they want to like talk about,
Speaker 2: especially like a show that has so many like you know,
Speaker 2: deep themes happening and like intense things as this play does.
Speaker 2: And also I don't want to be like and everyone
Speaker 2: wants to talk to me because I'm a star and
Speaker 2: here I am and like have expectations on people. And
Speaker 2: it's just always it's always funny that I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: doing this performance, that's so easy, And then even just
Speaker 2: the moment after the show of like coming back to
Speaker 2: those conversations is so much more complicated for me to navigate.
Speaker 1: Well, well, first of all, that was a very good
Speaker 1: segue into talking about the show. No, but but yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like when you're when you're on stage, even though
Speaker 1: you can see the audience, they're not really real, They're
Speaker 1: not really there. I was to a face to face conversation, was.
Speaker 2: Like, Hi, right, totally, where do we start?
Speaker 1: Yeah? So, yes, please tell us about this show Drop
Speaker 1: the Circle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the play is draw the Circle by I
Speaker 2: may pronounce the playwright's name, so deep forgiveness for me,
Speaker 2: I hope if I do. But mush of Mushtuck Dean
Speaker 2: is the playwright, and this play is really fascinating. It
Speaker 2: is an autobiographical solo show at its core that Dean
Speaker 2: wrote about his own experience. The thing that is really
Speaker 2: two things are really unique about it and this presentation
Speaker 2: of the play. One is that the play is told
Speaker 2: in its original form without the playwright's own voice in
Speaker 2: it at all. So it is Dean playing eighteen other
Speaker 2: or seventeen other people in his life around this journey
Speaker 2: of his gender transition journey and their conflicts, reactions, their love,
Speaker 2: their anger, their disappointment, their relief, etc. Through that journey,
Speaker 2: and so as opposed to most autobiographical solo shows, of
Speaker 2: which I've done one myself in Philly a few years ago,
Speaker 2: where you're like, it's my story and so it's me
Speaker 2: here on the mic in the light center stage, this
Speaker 2: play instead does the opposite, and it draws this circle
Speaker 2: of characters around the central figure, and you see Dean
Speaker 2: only kind of in silhouette. Is the image that I've
Speaker 2: been using to describe it, because you see them sort
Speaker 2: of refracted through all the different ways that people are
Speaker 2: seeing him. And the thing that's really interesting about this
Speaker 2: production of it is that this is the first time
Speaker 2: that the play has been presented with out Dean being
Speaker 2: the performer, and so there's three different ways it can
Speaker 2: be presented in the script. There's a version for the playwright,
Speaker 2: which is the main one that was incubated to interact
Speaker 2: here in Philly actually and then performed a few different places.
Speaker 2: There's a version that I'm not sure if it's been
Speaker 2: done for three actors, and then one for an actor
Speaker 2: who is not the playwright, which just needs to be
Speaker 2: a South Asian actor of any gender needs to be
Speaker 2: cast in it. And so this is the first time
Speaker 2: that this play is happening through a body that is
Speaker 2: not the playwrights, and so there's a new epilogue that
Speaker 2: Dean has written that is actually from his voice that
Speaker 2: I deliver. And so it's been a really fascinating experience
Speaker 2: for me, especially as someone who like I'm on my
Speaker 2: own gender journey, and I've also done an autobiographical solo
Speaker 2: show before, to be stepping into something that is so
Speaker 2: so tender and so personal and also has this really
Speaker 2: interesting layer of distance that has been created in it
Speaker 2: to bring in these other voices. I almost feel like
Speaker 2: one of the circle of characters, of like another person
Speaker 2: who is now sort of reflecting myself into an off
Speaker 2: of Dean's story.
Speaker 1: Right, that is fascinating. That is You're right that is
Speaker 1: not a common way of doing a one person show,
Speaker 1: you know, because I've seen several myself, and it's very
Speaker 1: like either it's very good or, as I've said before,
Speaker 1: if I want to watch someone masturbate on stage, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to spend money on a theater ticket, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. But I love the idea of
Speaker 1: basically telling the story around yourself, drawing the circle. So
Speaker 1: you mentioned that you are on your own gender journey.
Speaker 1: How has that affected an impacted, influenced and formed your
Speaker 1: performance in this show.
Speaker 2: That's a great question, and I'll I think I'll wonder
Speaker 2: a bit in my answer because there's a lot of
Speaker 2: like processing around.
Speaker 1: It that I'm free, I'll follow you.
Speaker 2: One of the one of the cool things that there's
Speaker 2: a phrase I think that I so I ended up actually,
Speaker 2: you know, it is often like a director's note in
Speaker 2: programs for a show. For this production, actually the director,
Speaker 2: Andrew was not that interested in writing a director's note,
Speaker 2: and I actually ended up writing a performer's note because
Speaker 2: I was really interested, especially with the how personal the
Speaker 2: show was about, like sort of reflecting on this kind
Speaker 2: of stuff of like how does my own racial and
Speaker 2: cultural and gender experience relate to what Dina's going through?
Speaker 2: And I wrote that my gender identity I am tracking
Speaker 2: down somewhere in the non binary wilds, was the phrase
Speaker 2: I wrote for this program note, which feels quite accurate
Speaker 2: to me. Yeah, I'm in a place of over the
Speaker 2: last chunk of years, finding my way into something. I've
Speaker 2: been using the label gender fluid for a while. I've
Speaker 2: a non binary is feeling more true to me in
Speaker 2: some ways these days, but it's very much a journey
Speaker 2: that I'm still sort of like deep in a pretty
Speaker 2: slow evolution of. And it's been really interesting in this
Speaker 2: moment stepping into the story because it this story feels
Speaker 2: trans to me in a couple of different and really
Speaker 2: interesting ways. One of them is obviously that is it
Speaker 2: is the story of a transman's transition process, right, And
Speaker 2: so in that way it is like a really like
Speaker 2: authentic and bare and vulnerable articulation of that. So it's
Speaker 2: really like fascinating for my body to step into that
Speaker 2: story and to feel what i'd like to feel, the
Speaker 2: resonance and friction to my own journey, where it's so
Speaker 2: clear both that I'm like, oh, yeah, my gender journey
Speaker 2: is very different and then this person's and also there
Speaker 2: are things that resonate and there are things that affirm
Speaker 2: what I'm going through. And on the other side, the
Speaker 2: act of performing this play is an act of constant
Speaker 2: transformation of like every two minutes, changing into a different gender,
Speaker 2: a different character, a different age. And so it is
Speaker 2: a really like interestingly like fractured, fragmented experience to just
Speaker 2: do as a person, as a body that feels like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that feels like this constant sort of act of like
Speaker 2: stepping into and out of and trying on and taking off.
Speaker 2: And one of the things that I think is so
Speaker 2: generous about what Dean shares in his journey is that, like,
Speaker 2: as much as there's always what I I guess into it,
Speaker 2: and again, you know, in all of this, I think
Speaker 2: that it is important to draw a distinction of like
Speaker 2: there is sort of my understanding of Dean, that is,
Speaker 2: who is a character in this play has that is
Speaker 2: very similar to the actual person and who the actual
Speaker 2: person is, And so you know, I'm able to speak
Speaker 2: from my knowledge of the character and what that says
Speaker 2: about the real person behind it. But what I find
Speaker 2: in the story is that as much as there's Dean
Speaker 2: experienced a strong feeling of generics, waria, a search for
Speaker 2: gender euphoria and for an identity and a body that
Speaker 2: would fit with who is inside, that that was not
Speaker 2: a linear journey, and that there were so many different
Speaker 2: times of like arrival in a sense of an identity
Speaker 2: and then a realization that didn't quite fit, and a
Speaker 2: trying on of a trying to searching and trying to
Speaker 2: figure out what the right thing is, and that has
Speaker 2: been really affirming to me as a person who I
Speaker 2: think it's easy. I think a lot of the stories
Speaker 2: that I've received, especially from people who are like really
Speaker 2: out and have been really out for a long time,
Speaker 2: of there being a level of like certainty and clarity
Speaker 2: from a young age and that and my experience is
Speaker 2: so much more of like of questioning and of search
Speaker 2: and of being in strange gray areas and often feeling like, oh, yeah, like,
Speaker 2: am I enough this? Like do I deserve to take
Speaker 2: up space in my identity in this way? Is that? Okay?
Speaker 2: Am I stepping on other people's toes by doing that?
Speaker 2: And I've and it's been really so it's been really
Speaker 2: helpful to step into a story that I think on
Speaker 2: the surface, I was like, oh, this feels so much
Speaker 2: more valid as a trans story than my own, and
Speaker 2: to be recognizing that, Like, while I do think there
Speaker 2: are like reasons why the Dean's story is important to
Speaker 2: be told as a transfer because of the kind of like, yeah,
Speaker 2: because of the way that the rhetoric of the world,
Speaker 2: because of the way that the world reacts to that
Speaker 2: kind of transition is really different than mine, But also
Speaker 2: it has been really affirming of the kind of the searchingness,
Speaker 2: the questingness, the the unknownness of how I've been trying to, yeah,
Speaker 2: figure out the words, the things that close, the expressions
Speaker 2: that match the person I am inside and who that
Speaker 2: person is I keep changing.
Speaker 1: I was watching you as you were describing it and
Speaker 1: talking about it. It's like, yeah, it's this nebulous like
Speaker 1: dance almost, you know, and I feel the same way.
Speaker 1: It's like I cringe a little bit. And this is
Speaker 1: the personal thing when someone says I don't believe in labels,
Speaker 1: because usually something low key problematic is coming after that.
Speaker 1: But when I was going through was going through, like
Speaker 1: I'm done going through my own journey. I landed for
Speaker 1: a minute on non binary, and I started like using
Speaker 1: they them pronouns, and that didn't feel authentic, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. I'm like, so I was sitting in
Speaker 1: that like, well, I am this, I'm not that, but
Speaker 1: I'm also kind of not that, you know, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. So then I'm just like, I guess
Speaker 1: I'm just me. And then I'm like, oh god, I'm
Speaker 1: one of those I don't believe in labels people, What
Speaker 1: do I do?
Speaker 2: Totally? I mean, yeah, I feel that tension a lot
Speaker 2: because I think that, like I've been running into this. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think both in like gender things and also in
Speaker 2: like other aspects of my life and art of like
Speaker 2: words are important, words are useful, words mean things, words
Speaker 2: help us define space where its help us bring people together.
Speaker 2: And also language is constantly evolving. Language can be exclusionary,
Speaker 2: language can be hurtful, and I think, yeah, I'm trying
Speaker 2: to find the place with all of this where I
Speaker 2: can live in the like whatever we are using as
Speaker 2: language is our best guests right now, right and no
Speaker 2: one is ever going to fully agree on the thing.
Speaker 2: It's all going to keep changing. The words we're using
Speaker 2: right now in fifty years will probably be incredibly offensive,
Speaker 2: like you know, right who knows, and being like great,
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna try to let go a little and
Speaker 2: at least for myself. The thing I've been finding is
Speaker 2: like I am tracking down my gender identity somewhere in
Speaker 2: the non binary wilds. The like poetry of that does
Speaker 2: a thing for me that is different than being like
Speaker 2: I might be gender fluid or non binary, I don't
Speaker 2: really know. You know, there's something about like embracing the
Speaker 2: power of language to speak beautifully about the in between
Speaker 2: places that calls to me as an artist and writer,
Speaker 2: as opposed to just like trying to make new boxes
Speaker 2: so I can fit into the new right box.
Speaker 1: Right, And it's like, spend so much time fighting the
Speaker 1: concept of the box. So it's like.
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly exactly, I'm like, right, and then how to
Speaker 2: do that without being like I don't believe in labels,
Speaker 2: you know, like it's complication, right.
Speaker 1: So it's like, Okay, I am male, I am not
Speaker 1: a woman, but when you say you're a man, then
Speaker 1: I go because I look at men, I'm like no, a.
Speaker 2: No, yea, yeah, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1: Like if you could speak in different fonts, maybe that
Speaker 1: would help.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, my god, yeah absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1: The search for expression, right, if I could find a
Speaker 1: way to say it in like hell Vetica, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I love that. No, I totally, I totally like yeah,
Speaker 2: cause I'm like, yeah, I'm like, you know, not a
Speaker 2: man and also like a man, and like both of
Speaker 2: those feel true in my body. And I have been socialized,
Speaker 2: I've been seen, I received the privileges of being a
Speaker 2: man in many ways. I still continue to and I
Speaker 2: don't think that I'm going to be undergoing, at least
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I don't know, but I don't
Speaker 2: think I'm gonna be undergoing the kind of transition where
Speaker 2: like those privileges are, that kind of socialization fully goes
Speaker 2: away and how I express myself unperceived. And so it
Speaker 2: does feel right to me to be like, yeah, the
Speaker 2: label of man still is a part of the word
Speaker 2: cloud of me. But I get to like, yeah, I
Speaker 2: get to like move those fridge magnets around myself. I
Speaker 2: get to be in in the act of the poetry
Speaker 2: of shaping what that story is. And that's one of
Speaker 2: the words that I can or cannot use. And it's
Speaker 2: one of the things that is so fascinating inspiring about
Speaker 2: the way this play is written, because I'm like, this
Speaker 2: play is dead naming Dean all over the place. It
Speaker 2: is not Dean's current pronouns all over the place. It
Speaker 2: is Dean's dead name all over the place. And it
Speaker 2: is really weird because we'll be in the room and
Speaker 2: we'll be out of a scene and will use accidentally
Speaker 2: use Dean's dead name just because that's what is in
Speaker 2: the script and in the scene we're talking about, and
Speaker 2: then we'll all be like, oh oh sorry, oh God.
Speaker 2: And it is one of those sort of like acts
Speaker 2: of generosity and vulnerability that is in this play that
Speaker 2: is really kind of like sounding to me. And I
Speaker 2: know that for many people like that might feel really
Speaker 2: especially fancile, it might be feel really weird and hard
Speaker 2: to hear on stage. And I think at least for
Speaker 2: me and how I'm sitting the I know that generosity
Speaker 2: is not for everyone. But it's been really moving to
Speaker 2: see and to get to experience that kind of generosity
Speaker 2: for this person, because it does feel like this story
Speaker 2: has given me a view into their experience, that I
Speaker 2: into this person's experience that I wouldn't have had without that.
Speaker 2: I'm very grateful for that act of vulnerability, not that
Speaker 2: it is an act of vulnerability for everyone.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, those you used two very accurate words with
Speaker 1: that generous and vulnerable. It's like I'm just going to say,
Speaker 1: it's like trans Jesus, I'm doing this for all of you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there is like, right, there is this
Speaker 2: element of and it's a thing I have a lot
Speaker 2: as an artist, you know, someone who makes me own
Speaker 2: work of like and even just as a body, as
Speaker 2: an actor, right of like the things we go through
Speaker 2: to like to perform, and the rigorous of that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there is an element of like sacrificing, an element something
Speaker 2: about myself to offer to this like greater whole of
Speaker 2: the public. I really reject the like suffering or starving
Speaker 2: artist trope. I'm like, that's a dangerous thing, and like
Speaker 2: I think that healing and thriving artists make better art
Speaker 2: than suffering and starving artists. And yet there is a
Speaker 2: truth that there is a Yeah, I think that there
Speaker 2: is a way in which some people are called to
Speaker 2: transform private pain into public transformation. Yeah, and that is
Speaker 2: a special thing that, yeah, that some people are willing
Speaker 2: to offer, and that I'm grateful that we get to
Speaker 2: receive as a culture.
Speaker 1: Right, I'm still the thriving artists make better art. That's
Speaker 1: a that is an internal debate I have been having
Speaker 1: because for the longest time, I was wearing my struggle
Speaker 1: as an artist as like a badge of authenticity. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm in these streets, I'm about it. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: have lights. But you saw that show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, it's such a it's so complicated, right,
Speaker 2: because I do think that and you know I called
Speaker 2: back a little bit too. What is it Hannah Gadsby's
Speaker 2: special in the net? Yes, yeah, right, like Van Go
Speaker 2: painted this, we had to sell we have the sun
Speaker 2: flowers because he was healing, because he was taking medication,
Speaker 2: not because he was crazy, right right that. I think
Speaker 2: that that that really spoke to me. And I think
Speaker 2: it's a thing, especially you know, like running my own
Speaker 2: arts company, both in like obvious agency little so I'm like,
Speaker 2: I've recently stepped into being part of the leadership team
Speaker 2: of Philadelphia Asian Performing Artists, which is a local grassroots
Speaker 2: collective group. PAPA for short is the grassroots membership based
Speaker 2: collective that is around connecting supporting people of Pan Asian
Speaker 2: descent who are involved in the performing arts in the
Speaker 2: Philadelphia area. Has been around for about eight years. The
Speaker 2: longtime creative director of My Dear Friend, Karramira has just
Speaker 2: stepped down and a group of us have stepped in
Speaker 2: a sort of leadership committee to take it over. Very
Speaker 2: cool organization. We'll see. We're very much like in the
Speaker 2: place of like, oh, what do we do with this now,
Speaker 2: Let's see what people need. But it's been really inspiring
Speaker 2: in it's a thing that I've thought about a lot
Speaker 2: in both of those leadership roles. I'm losing my train
Speaker 2: of thought. Where was like, where are we just before this? Uh?
Speaker 1: Thriving artists us?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, that it is so. When I am thriving,
Speaker 2: when I have time, when I have space, when my
Speaker 2: nervous system is less activated, I can be more creative baseline.
Speaker 2: And I think that there's this thing of like, oh,
Speaker 2: because it is true that people have resisted through art
Speaker 2: so much, and the art that people have created in
Speaker 2: resistance has been so beautiful, there is i think an
Speaker 2: assumption that like beauty would not exist that people were
Speaker 2: not thriving. And I'm like, thriving doesn't mean that there's
Speaker 2: no pain. Life hurts, people die, like things happen, like
Speaker 2: there is still going to always be suffering and pain
Speaker 2: in life. And I think that the thing that thriving artists,
Speaker 2: healing artists get is that they get to translate that
Speaker 2: pain into public understanding and an inspiration and whatever else
Speaker 2: it wants to be from a place of being well
Speaker 2: themselves instead of from a place of being hurt and
Speaker 2: poor and dying, which is so true of so many artists.
Speaker 1: Right, That's very, very true like I like to say,
Speaker 1: you can authentically be from the streets without being in
Speaker 1: the streets.
Speaker 2: Absolutely right. And also like, you know, my my friend
Speaker 2: I have, dear friend Daniel, who runs obviously agency with me,
Speaker 2: talks a lot about like not trying to get into
Speaker 2: the impression Olympics with each other.
Speaker 1: You know, say it again, right, because like we're yeah,
Speaker 1: we're all because no one wins.
Speaker 2: No one wins, right, because we're all. We all should
Speaker 2: be on the same team. We al should be on
Speaker 2: the same team. We all should be in solidarity, even
Speaker 2: you know, the people out here in their tech jobs.
Speaker 2: We are making two hundred thousand dollars a year still
Speaker 2: in the scheme of the world and what's happening. We
Speaker 2: should be on the same team, right, Like it doesn't
Speaker 2: feel like it because there's a lot of reasons why
Speaker 2: forces don't want us to feel like we're on the
Speaker 2: same team. And yeah, I think that, And well again,
Speaker 2: I mean, hey, we're circling back full circle to draw
Speaker 2: the Circle. Which is the other thing that feels really
Speaker 2: important to say about the sort of specific story at
Speaker 2: the heart of Draw the Circle is that it's really
Speaker 2: about at its core, Dean's relationship with his partner, and
Speaker 2: his parents, especially South Asian parents, conservative in the way
Speaker 2: that I think that a lot of South Asian people
Speaker 2: of that generation are when coming in contact with queerness,
Speaker 2: with gender queerness, et cetera, with transness. And the thing
Speaker 2: that is so special about the play is, in so
Speaker 2: many ways the thing that I think is so so
Speaker 2: easy and so common to do and often right, I think,
Speaker 2: to do for protection, right of like, these people do
Speaker 2: not understand me, and so and they will not understand me,
Speaker 2: and so I am going to draw a boundary. We
Speaker 2: are going to disconnect, and this distance is going to
Speaker 2: be created between us. The thing that Dean has done
Speaker 2: in models in the play is being like, I refuse
Speaker 2: to do that. I am going to continue to reach out.
Speaker 2: I'm going to continue to seek understanding with these people
Speaker 2: and continue to try to draw a circle that brings
Speaker 2: them in. And so much of the play is the
Speaker 2: act of Dean choosing to do that and trying to
Speaker 2: do that again and again, trying to be like, you're
Speaker 2: not going to get this, but I'm going to tell
Speaker 2: you these things and learning about myself and I'm going
Speaker 2: and I'm going to love you, and I'm going to
Speaker 2: want you to love me back and understand me. And
Speaker 2: I think that, Yeah, it's such a generous thing. I think,
Speaker 2: especially in a moment where there is there are so
Speaker 2: many echo chambers. There is such division that has been
Speaker 2: created in society through politics, through how our social spaces
Speaker 2: are like parasocial social media spaces are mediated that I
Speaker 2: have been really inspired by the what I experienced is
Speaker 2: the radicalness of that, like, no, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: let this circle shut people out. I'm going to continue
Speaker 2: to try to open it. And they continue to try
Speaker 2: to tell people they belong, even when that's hard, even
Speaker 2: when they've hurt me, especially when I might have hurt them,
Speaker 2: especially when it's hard exactly. I find it very inspiring
Speaker 2: and like, yeah, it's easier said than done, but it's
Speaker 2: the thing I'm thinking about a lot in my own
Speaker 2: personal life.
Speaker 1: Nice So we talked about how your approach to the
Speaker 1: character is influenced and informed by your own gender journey.
Speaker 1: How much does your biracial identity come into play as well.
Speaker 2: It's a great question.
Speaker 1: It's another area that you and I like, Oh.
Speaker 2: You're you're in the You're in the viracial as well.
Speaker 2: Respect the little village of us who all live together
Speaker 2: and have meet ups. Yeah, I really again have been
Speaker 2: another very good and complex question for me a biracial
Speaker 2: I am on my mom's side white American for many generations,
Speaker 2: but also that that ties back to like Ireland, England,
Speaker 2: Holland those types of places. And then on my dad's side,
Speaker 2: my dad is a first generation immigrant from Bombladesh, so
Speaker 2: I am Bangladeshi just sort of like, I don't even
Speaker 2: know how far.
Speaker 1: Back on that side since been sinceman, Yeah, who knows.
Speaker 2: There's probably some other things in there far enough back,
Speaker 2: but I don't know. And the thing that has been
Speaker 2: so interesting in this is, especially as a biracial person,
Speaker 2: what a what a complexity to being an actor in
Speaker 2: the American theater, because this is the first time I
Speaker 2: have played, outside of my own work or a staged reading,
Speaker 2: a South Asian person on stage. This is the first time,
Speaker 2: outside of those contexts that I have had to use
Speaker 2: any South Asian accent, had to do an Indian accent.
Speaker 2: It's also the first time, therefore, also that I've played
Speaker 2: like a non Cis South Asian personage. I have played
Speaker 2: so many other people. I have been Mexican, I have
Speaker 2: been Hawaiian. I have been Haitian for some reason.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, from the north side.
Speaker 2: I like, this's been inside for a while from the
Speaker 2: So it's really amazing to be in a story that
Speaker 2: is so South Asians. It just like feels like such
Speaker 2: an honor and such a rare circumstance for like the
Speaker 2: moment and the person to align that I actually get
Speaker 2: to be in this way nice and similarly to Transnis,
Speaker 2: I think in like, in stepping into this show, I've
Speaker 2: had to struggle through a lot of feelings of not
Speaker 2: being trans enough and not being Asian enough to do
Speaker 2: the plan and I have and these are also just
Speaker 2: like struggles I have in my life. I have the
Speaker 2: constant struggle I'm feeling Asian enough. A lot of this
Speaker 2: for me comes back to the fact that, unlike I
Speaker 2: think a lot of South Asian families and Dean's family
Speaker 2: in the play, where there is this weight of a
Speaker 2: whole bunch of cultural expectations that get put onto kids,
Speaker 2: I didn't really have them because of the way that
Speaker 2: my family has made up. I was sort of more
Speaker 2: thought of as like you're kind of like my white kid,
Speaker 2: Like you're kind of your mom's kid. And like I'm
Speaker 2: gonna not and there's some decision between the two of
Speaker 2: them of like sort of which expectations would be laid
Speaker 2: on me and which weren't. In some ways, that's been
Speaker 2: very and it's almost it's been very like alienating and
Speaker 2: distancing from my identity and for my family. And so
Speaker 2: it's been really interesting because I have had to navigate
Speaker 2: a lot through those feelings of not being Asian enough,
Speaker 2: and it's been really lovely the moments. Some moments in
Speaker 2: the story I'm like, oh, yeah, man, this was not
Speaker 2: my experience at all. And then there's these other just
Speaker 2: like small moments that will come out. Oh, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is so Truely. There's this moment where a lot
Speaker 2: of the play is based around this one thing, like
Speaker 2: intense Thanksgiving that they had together, and at the end
Speaker 2: of that Thanksgiving, the mom is describing like packing up
Speaker 2: food to go and she's putting it in the yogurt
Speaker 2: containers and labeling it and then tying those up tightly
Speaker 2: in a plastic bag so they won't leak. And I
Speaker 2: was just like, this is exactly what my mom and
Speaker 2: that she family does. Like to a tee, this is
Speaker 2: just like write on the notes, and so it's been
Speaker 2: really lovely of finding those bits of connection and moments,
Speaker 2: and then a lot of it also being like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: like I am, it is right that I'm in this story,
Speaker 2: but I'm stepping into experiences that are not necessarily mine,
Speaker 2: but are like within the culture that I exist in
Speaker 2: and come from. And once I got through some of
Speaker 2: my feelings about that, it has been a really lovely
Speaker 2: experience to get to Yeah, to get to meet some
Speaker 2: of those experiences from a place of embodiment, which as
Speaker 2: a person who's like very kinesthetic, very in my body,
Speaker 2: that has been. Yeah, it's felt like a real gift,
Speaker 2: even though it's sometimes surreal, Like there's a sura from
Speaker 2: the Koran that I recite in the play, and my
Speaker 2: father is Muslim, Muslim from any generations back on that side,
Speaker 2: but I have not like been like Islam has not
Speaker 2: been passed along to me in my family. And so
Speaker 2: this was my first time reciting or learning or reciting
Speaker 2: any of the Quran, and I'm doing it on the
Speaker 2: stage in a play for the paying public, and that
Speaker 2: is kind of cool and also deeply weird.
Speaker 1: Right, So, yeah, it sounds like you share that feeling
Speaker 1: that I get of like when you're a biracial person,
Speaker 1: you are you have that insider and outsider perspective at
Speaker 1: the same time, and it's always fun like when you're
Speaker 1: in mixed company, like the things that will get said
Speaker 1: to you because they didn't think you were the thing
Speaker 1: that there's.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, well right, Like even within multiracial biracial experience,
Speaker 2: Like there are so many fridays of that, Like I
Speaker 2: have a bunch of I have the great gift of
Speaker 2: having met and understood so myself to be in community
Speaker 2: with more biracial people as I've in like the last
Speaker 2: decade and in Philly, a lot of people I've met
Speaker 2: through Papa are biracial or multi racial, and it's been
Speaker 2: interesting also starting to notice some of the different nuances
Speaker 2: of it, right of like yeah, like what is it
Speaker 2: to be biracial but really have the cultural expectations versus
Speaker 2: like really not as I have, Like that's a really
Speaker 2: different experience. And I have friends who I joke with
Speaker 2: about belonging to white mom's club. There's a bunch of
Speaker 2: us who are like, yeah, we got but white mom,
Speaker 2: we got brown dad. That's one dynamic and we're like, Oh,
Speaker 2: but the white Dad's club. That's a whole different dynamic,
Speaker 2: at least on the Asian side. Right, that's a whole
Speaker 2: different thing. It shows up differently how stuff gets passed down,
Speaker 2: even to like what your last name is, Like how
Speaker 2: white coated is your last name? Right, white mom's club,
Speaker 2: We got that brown last name a lot of the time.
Speaker 2: That does different things as you're growing up. So it
Speaker 2: is really interesting. I'm very fascinated by the nuances of
Speaker 2: all this stuff and how culture and time and age
Speaker 2: and racial identity, how all of those sort of forces
Speaker 2: come together for any one person, I think is like
Speaker 2: a deeply fascinating thing to explore. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love those moments of shorthand you get when you're
Speaker 1: on that insider, insider side, and then those moments of
Speaker 1: observation almost like you know, like you you're Jane Goodall sometimes.
Speaker 2: Totally yeah, outsider all the same time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And every now and again I will come across
Speaker 1: some like the way someone will approach like I have
Speaker 1: a friend Etola. He's a choreographer, and he and I
Speaker 1: are so similar creatively in so many ways, like the
Speaker 1: way we the kind of music we like to use,
Speaker 1: the way we hear the music, but the output is
Speaker 1: so different from him, And sometimes I go, you were,
Speaker 1: like me, if both my parents had been black, that's
Speaker 1: so interesting. You ever have like those kind of moments.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if I've ever had like
Speaker 2: that exact thought about it person, but I mean, I
Speaker 2: mean it's to some degree, you know, in like taking
Speaker 2: a Dean story, I am like, oh, yeah, man, right,
Speaker 2: if I had, if I had had two South Asian parents,
Speaker 2: I would have gotten those cultural expectations, Like a lot
Speaker 2: of this stuff would have landed on me, like me
Speaker 2: being a theater artist in a querness, like all of
Speaker 2: these different things would have like I would have butted
Speaker 2: up against these things directly in a way that I'm
Speaker 2: like sort of half glanced off of in a different way. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's so interesting. I'm very curious for you because this
Speaker 2: was experience for me. It's like it it took me
Speaker 2: until after college for me to like really start to
Speaker 2: like connect to people around being biracial in like a
Speaker 2: deeper way, like I was sort of I feel like
Speaker 2: before that, I was sort of like, oh, kind of
Speaker 2: not anything I don't or like this person's also right, verycial,
Speaker 2: but we don't really know how to talk to each
Speaker 2: other or like be in solidarity like communication around that. Really. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm very curious what your experience of that has been
Speaker 2: with like other biracial people.
Speaker 1: With other biracial people, I've always we've always had that
Speaker 1: kinship of you know, that insider outsider thing. I was
Speaker 1: always growing up as a biracial black person whose mother
Speaker 1: was white and father was black, but living in a
Speaker 1: predominantly black neighborhood and going to predominantly black schools from
Speaker 1: K through twelve, I was never allowed to not think
Speaker 1: about it because I would always be reminded. So it
Speaker 1: wasn't until I got to college that I actually like
Speaker 1: leaned into my blackness. So it's like you have to
Speaker 1: go all the way to the other side before you
Speaker 1: can like find that nice little because you know, I
Speaker 1: was the white boy from K through twelve, and then
Speaker 1: I was like going to go the other way in college.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you find that sweet spot in the middle,
Speaker 1: and you realize that's not as uncommon of a scenario.
Speaker 2: Right you thought it these days twenty twenty six, Like
Speaker 2: we're out here, Yeah, that's a well white mom's club.
Speaker 2: Nice to know we're both in this club together.
Speaker 1: Right, that needs to be a like an actual white.
Speaker 2: I mean, Lissa, we can do meetups like, I'm here
Speaker 2: for it. I think, well, I have so I have
Speaker 2: a Cordoration child now because I'm a white partner and
Speaker 2: we had a baby a little over a year ago.
Speaker 2: And congratulations so much, because thank you so much. It's
Speaker 2: a delight and also it's the hardest thing ever. Uh huh.
Speaker 2: And I'm thinking about a lot because I'm like, oh, man, Cordoration,
Speaker 2: that's a whole different ballgame. I like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: and I'm not going to assume I know what that
Speaker 2: is going to be like for this person, right, And
Speaker 2: I'm glad I have the knowledge to know that I
Speaker 2: don't know. But I'm already like, oh, okay, like this
Speaker 2: kid over here, I see you. You're also corre Asian.
Speaker 2: Y'all should talk. I don't know if you're gonna care
Speaker 2: to do that, but I want you to at least
Speaker 2: like know each other so you can talk about some shit,
Speaker 2: right right. But yeah, I mean I really relate to
Speaker 2: that because I you know, especially as like growing up
Speaker 2: in like a pretty diverse school district in South Jersey,
Speaker 2: but like one that was pretty small on Asian people,
Speaker 2: like I very much was like I'm white, like that's
Speaker 2: essentially what I am, Like, I'm kind of this other
Speaker 2: thing about mostly white. And it also took me like
Speaker 2: a while to be like, no, I get to be
Speaker 2: Asian too, and that's okay, and that's allowed and not
Speaker 2: just in a commodified way, which it can often be
Speaker 2: because of theater, right, I mean it's part of why,
Speaker 2: like I actually don't act as like acting as much
Speaker 2: as it's what I've done the most of like regional
Speaker 2: theater acting is not a big amount of what I
Speaker 2: do these days. I don't go out traditions a lot
Speaker 2: because honestly, like it's uncomfortable, like as a person who
Speaker 2: exists outside of like a little bit outside of gender
Speaker 2: and very much outside I did easy racial categories, like
Speaker 2: it could be really uncomfortable the kind of boxes that
Speaker 2: I get put into, or the boxes that I'm just
Speaker 2: like not thought of for because I'm sort of this
Speaker 2: vague other And it often, even if it's not meant
Speaker 2: to and even if people are like, you know, doing
Speaker 2: the best they can on the artistic director's side, it
Speaker 2: can feel really oppressive a lot of times.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember, like if I had a nickel for
Speaker 1: every time someone said you could be angel in Rent
Speaker 1: that's a thing for you, right, I guess now that
Speaker 1: would be like you could be in Hamilton.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, totally totally.
Speaker 1: Because that's that's what there is for brown folks, because
Speaker 1: that's right.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean that's one of the reasons that like,
Speaker 2: you know, I think like I mean, like plays like this,
Speaker 2: like making while I also care about making my own
Speaker 2: work and making new work so much is there's I
Speaker 2: think what we rely on existing cannon for the kind
Speaker 2: of art that we're doing, especially in an art forum
Speaker 2: that interacts with bodies in the way that theater does.
Speaker 2: It really limits the stories we're able to tell. It
Speaker 2: really limits the kind of experiences that we can put
Speaker 2: on stage because we're constantly asking people of like really rich,
Speaker 2: interesting experiences in their bodies to fit themselves into Tennessee Williams, right,
Speaker 2: and to fit themselves into whatever or we're like in Shakespeare.
Speaker 2: But it's now, it's a it's you know, now's Asians, right,
Speaker 2: you know, I know.
Speaker 1: Like what do we which also sounds like weird, I.
Speaker 2: Mean yeah, but it's you know it and there's there's
Speaker 2: nothing wrong with doing that, But I think that and
Speaker 2: I respect people who are like, that's my back, that's
Speaker 2: what I want to do. I think the thing that
Speaker 2: I know for myself is that I am most called
Speaker 2: to new stuff. And even though this play has been
Speaker 2: around for a bit, it feels like it falls draw
Speaker 2: the circle, feels like it falls into that for me
Speaker 2: because it is such a is so personal, it is
Speaker 2: so brave, it is it is so fresh, and even
Speaker 2: in like no that me coming to it is kind
Speaker 2: of changing the play that I really feel as an actor,
Speaker 2: like I'm artistically in conversation with the play and with
Speaker 2: the play right even know we haven't like actually had
Speaker 2: a conversation with each other, and it feels really rare.
Speaker 2: As an actor. We'll often I feel more like I'm like, great,
Speaker 2: you needed you needed this box to be filled, and
Speaker 2: I was close enough to it. So we're gonna put this,
Speaker 2: squish this a little and put that foot into that
Speaker 2: Cinderella shue and it does not fit great.
Speaker 1: But the best part about that is after you like
Speaker 1: got yourself comfortable in that box, that box will never
Speaker 1: fit anyone else again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: So ha take that bugs take that far. I'm I
Speaker 1: know we've touched on this just organically through the conversation
Speaker 1: when I'm going to ask the official question, So, in
Speaker 1: the process of getting ready to do this show, what
Speaker 1: was your biggest challenge and your biggest I'm going to
Speaker 1: use the word triumph, but I can that can also
Speaker 1: be to be joyful moment.
Speaker 2: That's a great question. I think that like there's kind
Speaker 2: of two challenges depending on the perspective. I think the
Speaker 2: most obvious challenge is the just the time required to
Speaker 2: like get this plan into my body. Like this is
Speaker 2: every day I'm in rehearsal, it's just me working the
Speaker 2: whole time. It's just me speaking the whole time. If
Speaker 2: I'm learning lines, you know, often if you're in a
Speaker 2: show with five people in it, like there, if they're
Speaker 2: doing their scene, I'm learning my lines over here while
Speaker 2: I'm in the rehearsal room, right or like that's part
Speaker 2: of the sort of process it can be. And I
Speaker 2: was like I had to put in I don't know
Speaker 2: if it was equal, but like probably close to the
Speaker 2: same amount of time I put in in rehearsal. Outside
Speaker 2: of rehearsal, like in the month beating up and in
Speaker 2: the days around it, like learning lines, like working on
Speaker 2: sense like there's like seven eight accents in the show
Speaker 2: something like that into my body being able to show
Speaker 2: up for rehearsal and actually be able to work and
Speaker 2: actually be able to do like generative productive acting work.
Speaker 2: And that's hard. It's hard when like you know, regional
Speaker 2: hitters are hurting for money, Like it wouldn't be a
Speaker 2: problem if we were in a resource our its ecosystem,
Speaker 2: which we are not. And so you know, Heedro is
Speaker 2: not able to pay me the amount that would make
Speaker 2: that really easy to say yes too. And so that's
Speaker 2: a struggle because I care about doing the work, I
Speaker 2: care about doing it well, and the reality is that
Speaker 2: like the money to support that is not there for anyone, right,
Speaker 2: at least not in this scale. Right. I think the
Speaker 2: thing that's a little bit more tender for me, that
Speaker 2: I think actually connects to Triumph a little bit, is
Speaker 2: so much dialect work, Like this is a really dialect
Speaker 2: work heavy show. I'm doing two different types of Indian accents,
Speaker 2: each differentiating between two characters apiece. For those accents, I'm
Speaker 2: doing a coaster we can a Mexican accent, a British accent,
Speaker 2: a West Virginian accent. I'm doing so much and it's
Speaker 2: not a place of comfort for me as an actor,
Speaker 2: strangely than many other things about the show, like generally like,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, it's just me on stage for any minutes,
Speaker 2: I have to learn how many lines, like all that
Speaker 2: stuff does not scare me. It's a lot of work,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't scare me. I fay eighteen characters in
Speaker 2: my body. Sure I can embody that doesn't scare me,
Speaker 2: but the accents do. And it's definitely been a journey.
Speaker 2: I think part of the triumph is that, like I've
Speaker 2: had some crunchy moments with it because we've had a
Speaker 2: really wonderful dialect coach Gurkinan, who's is London based, work
Speaker 2: with me on the Indian accents primarily, and I had
Speaker 2: a couple other people in the process who were able
Speaker 2: to help me a little bit with as well as
Speaker 2: gooking on on some of the Hispanic accents and other
Speaker 2: pieces of it who like have them in their years
Speaker 2: a bit. And I don't know that I'm doing perfect work.
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone is. I think that's an unrealistic
Speaker 2: expectation for accent work, especially with this many things back
Speaker 2: to back. I actually feel like I'm in a place
Speaker 2: coming into this week of previews where I'm feeling pretty
Speaker 2: confident in the work that I'm doing, and that is
Speaker 2: really feels really exciting for me because it felt like
Speaker 2: I had told myself I think for a while that like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is kind of a growing edge or like something
Speaker 2: I'm not particularly good at, and I think being able
Speaker 2: to see myself rise to the challenge of like navigating
Speaker 2: this many different accents with like not minimal support, but
Speaker 2: not with like a ton of support time wise around
Speaker 2: it has been really like exciting and empowering for me
Speaker 2: as a performer.
Speaker 1: Have you chosen a favorite accent, like a favorite one
Speaker 1: to do?
Speaker 2: What a good question? I still find them kind of
Speaker 2: scary to do outside of a rehearsal, but I think
Speaker 2: that it's a good question. I think that the speaking
Speaker 2: as the mom in the play has been really lovely
Speaker 2: for me, her like particular kind of American influenced diasporas
Speaker 2: South Indian accent. I feel like it's taken me a
Speaker 2: while to find it, but really, yeah, I really love
Speaker 2: that character and I'm really enjoying playing her a lot.
Speaker 1: I love it, and I this is going to be
Speaker 1: fun for me because I always love hearing like Indian
Speaker 1: accents across the diaspora, and like it always just sounds
Speaker 1: so smart to me, Like I when I think, like
Speaker 1: the sound of like true intelligence, it's an Indian woman
Speaker 1: that you know, Except I tried to turn my SyRI
Speaker 1: into an Indian woman because they give you that option,
Speaker 1: but like having that voice in a in a subservient
Speaker 1: position just didn't sit well with me, so I switched.
Speaker 2: She has she has to be telling me what.
Speaker 1: I can't do this to you, says I'm sorry. So
Speaker 1: what is the takeaway you would like for the audience
Speaker 1: to have?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: With this show? Withdraw the Circle?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the show sort of wears its
Speaker 2: objective on its sleep in a way. I think that
Speaker 2: the title Draw the Circle both describes sort of the
Speaker 2: theatrical mechanism of the many characters reflecting Dean and also
Speaker 2: the like core action of the play, which is to
Speaker 2: be which is this kind of radical inclusion feels buzzworthy.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to find other words to say it.
Speaker 2: The choice to seek commonality, love and understanding where it
Speaker 2: would be easier not tom that I think, to me
Speaker 2: really feels like the core of this play and to
Speaker 2: embrace the process of like we're making these jokes in
Speaker 2: a rehearsal, we're just like words that have trans and
Speaker 2: then we'll like separate them out the transformation or the
Speaker 2: section of you know, in the plane that we refer
Speaker 2: to that the transformation of monologue, but yeah, the transformation
Speaker 2: of relationship, the transformation of like how we think about
Speaker 2: each other. That has to happen in order to like
Speaker 2: come together across those kinds of differences and misunderstandings generationally, culturally,
Speaker 2: whatever like that is, I think, and I think I
Speaker 2: would argue, at least to me, this play posits that
Speaker 2: there is a like a queerness in that act, that
Speaker 2: there is a like a transness in the act of
Speaker 2: like looking at these relationships and believing they can transform
Speaker 2: into something that like will be truer and more full
Speaker 2: of love and reflect the people in the matter, even
Speaker 2: if that might be uncomfortable and strange and it might
Speaker 2: look like nothing you've seen before. Believing in that transformation
Speaker 2: and stepping into it with your soul and with your
Speaker 2: body and with your words, and so the thing I
Speaker 2: hope hope for this people, for this play is that
Speaker 2: at least the thing I am taking away is that
Speaker 2: for those relationships that you have in your life where
Speaker 2: there is love, where there is connection, but it's hard,
Speaker 2: and there's hurt, and there's misunderstanding, as there's mistrust, and
Speaker 2: knowing that right, not every relationship can be salvaged. That
Speaker 2: is true, not every thing can be fixed, or there
Speaker 2: is the desire to fix. But for those ones that
Speaker 2: are hard, but there is still that desire in there
Speaker 2: somewhere to keep trying to try again, to try simply
Speaker 2: to try over time, to try consistently. It is the
Speaker 2: inspiration that I have taken away from this play. And
Speaker 2: you know, as my dad is aging, as like I'm
Speaker 2: figuring out how to teach my child, who the world
Speaker 2: is going to mostly socialize is white about being Bangladeshi,
Speaker 2: about that side of himself. As I try to figure out,
Speaker 2: like what does that look like? What is the work
Speaker 2: that I'm able to put in on the somewhat complicated
Speaker 2: relationships I have with that side of my family. Dean
Speaker 2: has been so inspiring in yeah, just modeling what it
Speaker 2: looks like to like to keep trying, to keep trying
Speaker 2: to keep reaching out and that that actually, in its simplicity,
Speaker 2: can cause some pretty amazing transformations. So I hope that
Speaker 2: people leave the play like loving the trans people in
Speaker 2: their lives better. I hope people leave the play loving
Speaker 2: themselves better. I hope they leave the play loving an
Speaker 2: immigrant in their lives better. I hope they leave the
Speaker 2: play like thinking about the circles they draw, and who
Speaker 2: else could be including them, who isn't, and whether they themselves,
Speaker 2: at the deepest level, are really included in the circle
Speaker 2: that they're drawing.
Speaker 1: Lovely, so it's not so much to take away as
Speaker 1: a taking in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like exactly, exactly, And.
Speaker 1: I was also sitting here thinking about, you know, drawing
Speaker 1: circles as opposed to drawing lines. I like that that. So,
Speaker 1: as we said, this play is starting on January twenty first,
Speaker 1: so at the time of this recording, that is tomorrow.
Speaker 1: So by the time this episode comes out, there will
Speaker 1: be plenty of time for everyone within the sound of
Speaker 1: our voices to get tickets and experience this wonderful show.
Speaker 1: We will be there, Martha and I will be there
Speaker 1: this weekend. And I am more excited now than I
Speaker 1: was before. And that's saying something.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 1: So we will definitely put the information on how to
Speaker 1: get tickets in the notes to this episode. If people
Speaker 1: wanted to learn more about you, Joseph and what you do,
Speaker 1: where could they go?
Speaker 2: Absolutely there are two places for me personally sadly someone
Speaker 2: out of date website. I have a lop date and
Speaker 2: I swear everyone ww dot Joseph Ahmed dot com, so
Speaker 2: people are welcome to look me up there and connect
Speaker 2: with me means for that, and then also I'll shout
Speaker 2: out both my company, UH Obvious agency that makes interactive
Speaker 2: performances we Our website is www dot Obvious dash Agency
Speaker 2: dot com. And then PAPA, which I also talked about,
Speaker 2: Philly Fluffy Asian Performing Artists is Philly Asian Artists dot com.
Speaker 2: So you can connect with me and for for for
Speaker 2: a variety of reasons, in a variety of ways. Multi
Speaker 2: hyphen it, multi hyphen it that all the hyphens, how
Speaker 2: to do it succinctly, I'll never know right.
Speaker 1: Well, listen, it's no big deal.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: So, Joseph Ahmed, this has been a wonderful conversation. I
Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed it as much as I did absolutely
Speaker 1: and I have a feeling this will not be the
Speaker 1: last time you join us at the Full Circle Table.
Speaker 1: I hope so. So until next time, thank you very
Speaker 1: much for sharing your time and energy, and you have
Speaker 1: a fabulous day. Sand you bye everyone. Full Circle is
Speaker 1: a Never Skurreed Productions podcast hosted by Charles Tyson Junior
Speaker 1: and Martha Madrigal, Produced and edited by Never Scurred Executive
Speaker 1: Produced by Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal. Our theme
Speaker 1: in music is by the jingle Berries. All names, pictures, music, audio,
Speaker 1: and video clips are registered trademarks and or copyrights of
Speaker 1: their respective copyright holders.