WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.520 --> 00:00:06.639 Hey, this is Mike Carry from much I had sheet Porta, 2 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:09.640 I play at the link, sit point and beach. This 3 00:00:09.800 --> 00:00:13.640 is GOP smurdering number nine nine zero. And I think 4 00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:16.879 this is a big part because of podcasting. Now we 5 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:19.160 get wisdom talked about a little bit more that we 6 00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:22.440 maybe have over the last ten twenty thirty years, you know, 7 00:00:22.519 --> 00:00:25.039 the last twenty years. It's all about where you have lessons. 8 00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:27.239 You do this, you hit these numbers, you do this 9 00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:29.719 on track, man, you hit this line on a video screen. 10 00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:32.759 To be honest, for some people, it works. For most 11 00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:36.119 they don't have time to really change anything fundamentally, and 12 00:00:36.159 --> 00:00:38.719 so you can have this great lesson, but you know, 13 00:00:38.759 --> 00:00:41.200 after you've hit your bucket of balls, you're probably not 14 00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:43.799 going to hit another bucket of balls correctly until you 15 00:00:43.799 --> 00:00:46.640 see the next lesson. And so people, I think, get 16 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:49.520 frustrated and they're paying all this money for a swing lesson. 17 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:53.719 And yeah, my numbers look better and this line looks 18 00:00:53.719 --> 00:00:56.039 better on the screen. But I keep shooting the same score, 19 00:00:56.079 --> 00:00:57.759 and I keep hitting the same shots, and I keep 20 00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:02.200 making the same mistakes. There's a lot more podcasts involved 21 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:06.319 with wisdom and experience and filling fives into fours. A 22 00:01:06.519 --> 00:01:10.079 different approach to be able to help you score better. 23 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:18.959 Meet the course, not yourself. Written by one of the 24 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:24.120 PGA tours older rookies, Gary Christian. This is Golf Smarter, 25 00:01:25.079 --> 00:01:28.920 sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf minds to 26 00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:32.040 help you lower your score and raise your golf IQ. 27 00:01:32.879 --> 00:01:37.560 There's your host, Fred Green. Welcome to the Golf Smarter podcast. 28 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:40.879 Gary Well, thank you so much. Fred, great to be 29 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:43.239 with you. Look forward to having a nice chat. 30 00:01:43.879 --> 00:01:46.680 I'm looking forward to as well, because I truly enjoyed 31 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:49.359 the book, but we'll talk about that later. I want 32 00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:54.480 to talk about your fascinating history in the golf world. 33 00:01:54.680 --> 00:01:58.879 You've done so many different things, but what's got to 34 00:01:58.879 --> 00:02:02.560 start the conversation is that you were the oldest rookie 35 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:03.959 ever in the PGA Tour. 36 00:02:04.879 --> 00:02:08.159 Well, I think I was one of the oldest, let's 37 00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:11.919 say true rookies, never having played a PGA Tour until 38 00:02:11.919 --> 00:02:14.560 I was forty years old. So you'll see a lot 39 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:16.680 of people you know sneak in and make a US 40 00:02:16.759 --> 00:02:18.919 open every now and again. That counts that you played 41 00:02:18.919 --> 00:02:23.080 appreciator event or Monday qualified And yes I was on 42 00:02:23.120 --> 00:02:27.120 the not overly accelerated path to the PGA Tour. So 43 00:02:27.240 --> 00:02:30.199 it was it was quite the journey to have a 44 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:33.360 lot of you know, dead ends and going backwards, to 45 00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:36.680 go forwards and go sideways, and we finally made it. 46 00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:40.280 So great journey. A lot of the time, the journeys, 47 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:42.400 I think more fun than the actual destination. 48 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:46.159 Sometimes it is you learn a lot more from the 49 00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:49.159 journey than you do from the destination, I think, especially 50 00:02:49.199 --> 00:02:50.840 in golf exactly. 51 00:02:50.919 --> 00:02:54.560 Yeah, And I think it makes you the person that 52 00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:59.319 you are. It forms your character. So the ability to 53 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:02.639 have the tenas the and the perseverance and the resilience 54 00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:05.479 that you showed in your golf career then translates to 55 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:08.520 life as well. So I think that's the great thing 56 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:10.639 about golf. I had so many parallels to life, and 57 00:03:11.080 --> 00:03:13.759 it is in many respects a metaphor for life. 58 00:03:13.879 --> 00:03:16.919 Right right, So you must have hit so many roadblocks 59 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:22.680 along the way. What was that your drive kept going 60 00:03:22.719 --> 00:03:25.439 that you just knew that you had the ability to 61 00:03:25.479 --> 00:03:25.879 get there? 62 00:03:26.599 --> 00:03:29.280 Yeah, I think, I mean, you know, the roadblocks I had, 63 00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:33.240 you know, just always had was not being a particularly 64 00:03:33.479 --> 00:03:38.280 imposing physical specimen, you know, maybe not having the finances 65 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:40.560 that could help me to do whatever I needed to 66 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:44.000 do when I needed to do it, and you know, 67 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:48.039 a talent level that was obviously a very high talent level. 68 00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:51.039 But when you threw me in against some other players 69 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:54.719 and some other college players and many tour players there, 70 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:56.439 you know there was only one person that was going 71 00:03:56.520 --> 00:03:59.039 to make the two and it wasn't me. And so 72 00:03:59.319 --> 00:04:04.599 you always of battling and and it just I always 73 00:04:04.599 --> 00:04:06.319 had the ability to win. I think just because I 74 00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:11.120 was just naturally a tough personality. I always say I 75 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:15.080 hated losing more than I enjoyed winning, and you learn 76 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:17.879 a lot from that, and but you know, it takes 77 00:04:17.879 --> 00:04:20.160 a lot out of you. So you know, it's funny 78 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:23.680 now that I don't really enjoy competing that much in 79 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:26.079 many respects. I think I used up my reserves of 80 00:04:26.920 --> 00:04:29.319 energy and emotional and energy to be able to get 81 00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:32.800 where I got to. So you know, now when my 82 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:35.600 son beats me a ping pong, I don't solve for 83 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:37.959 half an hour like I used to. So that's kind 84 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:40.399 of nice. It makes you a little bit better human 85 00:04:40.439 --> 00:04:43.000 being as well, which is even better. But yeah, I 86 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:47.480 always had the belief in myself that I had something 87 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:51.399 of what it would take to get to the highest level, 88 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:53.839 and we just were trying to put our finger on 89 00:04:53.879 --> 00:04:56.199 what was that little bit of glue that would put 90 00:04:56.360 --> 00:04:59.240 the final pieces together that would allow everything to work. 91 00:05:00.439 --> 00:05:03.160 You know, you can be you know, maybe undersized, maybe 92 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:07.279 under talented, maybe under financed, maybe under coached, but if 93 00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:10.759 you have one thing that kind of puts everything together 94 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:13.839 to give you what it is you do have, but 95 00:05:14.040 --> 00:05:16.879 has everything working together at the same time, like everyone's 96 00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:19.600 put in the same direction, you can achieve great things. 97 00:05:19.639 --> 00:05:21.319 And that's what I think I did with the mental 98 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:24.399 side of the game to dedicate myself to that to 99 00:05:24.519 --> 00:05:26.079 be able to push me over the edge. You see 100 00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:31.480 a lot of incredibly talented players with amazing swings, amazing 101 00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:35.600 you know, coaching, but they don't have that thing that 102 00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:37.720 allows it to happen when they need it to happen. 103 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:40.639 And you know, it's almost like it's almost like the 104 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:44.120 game's too easy for them, and they kind of overlook 105 00:05:44.279 --> 00:05:47.920 certain other things that I would never have overlooked, and 106 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:49.680 you know, I would just be jealous of kind of 107 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:51.920 I could just have that talent or that swing or 108 00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:54.319 that bank balance to be able to go and see 109 00:05:54.399 --> 00:05:58.920 who I want when I want and try and improve constantly. 110 00:05:59.480 --> 00:06:01.120 You know, I could have done some really great things 111 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:02.519 with that, and I would have been a rookie at 112 00:06:02.519 --> 00:06:05.000 thirty or not forty. 113 00:06:05.079 --> 00:06:10.040 So in that journey you must have played a lot. 114 00:06:10.360 --> 00:06:12.720 Let me ask you this first. What year was it 115 00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:14.839 when you were forty that you made it onto the tour? 116 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:15.639 What were we talking? 117 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:19.399 That was twenty eleven. So I'm on myland Classic on 118 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:21.240 the Cornferry to and I've had a good year up 119 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:24.519 to that stage, and that win put me comfortably inside 120 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:27.199 the top twenty five on the points list or the 121 00:06:27.199 --> 00:06:31.360 moneylist back back then. But it was special because it 122 00:06:31.560 --> 00:06:36.439 was in Pittsburgh. Arnold Palmer was the honorary tournament chairman, 123 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:39.240 and so there was just something. I'm a student of 124 00:06:39.319 --> 00:06:42.399 the game, a student of history, and to have that 125 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:46.160 connection with what I had just achieved. And someone took 126 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:49.079 a photo of me making my six inch part to 127 00:06:49.079 --> 00:06:52.639 get my PGA Tour card and win the tournament, and 128 00:06:52.759 --> 00:06:55.360 they sent it to me. I sent it to mister 129 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:57.879 Palmer and he signed it like he does. He did, 130 00:06:58.199 --> 00:07:02.839 you know, for so many people. So it's just that special, 131 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:06.920 special memento that They've got a lot of special things, 132 00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:09.120 but that's certainly one of the more important ones. 133 00:07:10.199 --> 00:07:14.519 Absolutely, absolutely, so when we're talking about twenty eleven, there 134 00:07:14.519 --> 00:07:17.720 were probably a lot in those years that you were 135 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:20.319 competing at that level before you made it to the 136 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:23.519 PGA Tour. There must have been a lot of young 137 00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:27.319 players coming up that were just walking right by you 138 00:07:27.399 --> 00:07:32.600 and getting onto the tour. Were there players that you're going, 139 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:35.040 I'm better than him? Why am I not going there? 140 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:38.279 Well, I mean there's been nine here. There were plenty 141 00:07:38.920 --> 00:07:42.160 of players that you know, you knew were very good players. 142 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:44.439 We were obviously to make you live in at the game. 143 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:46.920 You're all very good players, and it's just a fine 144 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:49.600 it's such a fine line. You know, for that person 145 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:51.800 that finished hundredth on the one hundred and first on 146 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:54.079 the corn free to have lost their card, they were 147 00:07:54.199 --> 00:07:55.839 just as good of a player as the guy that 148 00:07:55.879 --> 00:07:57.920 finished in the top twenty five and got their card. 149 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:01.519 That's the final line of the nature of professional golf. 150 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:03.480 And you know, you look at it, it may come 151 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:06.079 down to you know, one nine holes and might come 152 00:08:06.120 --> 00:08:09.319 down to one hole, but you know, you've just got 153 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:12.040 to just got to maintain that belief. And you know, 154 00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:14.120 I didn't really worry too much about that the young 155 00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:17.199 guns coming through and taking taking my spots on the 156 00:08:17.240 --> 00:08:20.639 PGA Tour because I knew I was going to get 157 00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:25.040 there eventually, and I just, you know, as as I 158 00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:28.120 played the years on the corn Free Tourt, I got 159 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:30.879 more comfortable with the courses. I got more comfortable being 160 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:35.679 in contention. And you just have to use prior experience 161 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:38.639 to be able to perform better when you get an 162 00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:40.720 opportunity the next time. And that was always my goal. 163 00:08:40.759 --> 00:08:43.759 Whatever happened, I always learned something from the experience, whether 164 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:45.879 it was good or bad, and then applied that the 165 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:48.960 next time. You know, I'd vow to not make that mistake. 166 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:51.759 The next time, I would I would sit back after that. 167 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:54.559 I was very good about looking at things objectively. I 168 00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:57.480 didn't take things emotionally. So, you know, you may go 169 00:08:57.559 --> 00:09:00.399 into the tournament in the final group or two with 170 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:03.559 a chance to win a Corn Forrery Tour event, which 171 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:06.200 may may or may not get a PGA Tour card, 172 00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:09.480 and you end up not playing great. You know, a 173 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:12.080 lot of people it will crush them. Because of the 174 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:14.159 resilience I had, I was just able to kind of 175 00:09:14.279 --> 00:09:16.639 sit back, say, hey, you know, I try my best. 176 00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:19.519 You know, things didn't work out that day. Now let's 177 00:09:19.559 --> 00:09:21.279 go over that round. Let's see what I could have 178 00:09:21.320 --> 00:09:24.080 done better. You know, maybe in course management, maybe in 179 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:27.360 decision making, you know, but usually the most of the 180 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:31.200 most of the answers were in you know, maybe deviating 181 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:35.080 from my routine, getting distracted, get in a little bit 182 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:39.360 taken by the situation, and then you kind of say, okay, 183 00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:43.039 next time. You know, My goal was to try and play, 184 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:47.000 you know, in effect, play a little bit like an 185 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:50.919 emotionless robot, even though I'm an outgoing, friendly guy in 186 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:53.919 between shots, That's what I am. But when I get 187 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:56.960 when I was getting into the shots, my job was 188 00:09:57.039 --> 00:10:02.080 to take everything out of play, every distraction, every thought 189 00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:04.559 of score, every thought of position, every thought of what if, 190 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:08.360 and say, I'm going to dedicate myself to giving myself 191 00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:10.600 the best chance to make the best decision on this shot, 192 00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:15.039 to visualize this shot as clearly as possible, to feel 193 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:17.440 exactly what it is I'm trying to do with this swing, 194 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:20.679 and then to get set up and then connect to 195 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:23.039 the target and let it go, and then whatever happens happens. 196 00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:24.639 But what I could do is I could look myself 197 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:26.759 in the mirror after that shot and say, hey, I 198 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:29.000 did anything I could do. I cannot do anything more 199 00:10:29.039 --> 00:10:32.200 than this, and sometimes go it's a hard game. And 200 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:36.200 sometimes sometimes is a degree out and that past two 201 00:10:36.279 --> 00:10:39.519 degrees out and the ball goes twenty yards offline. That's 202 00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:43.279 just part of the game. And I worked really hard 203 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:47.440 on that, and I would grade myself on how I 204 00:10:47.480 --> 00:10:49.960 perform my routine, and I would try and get seventy 205 00:10:49.960 --> 00:10:54.279 five percent of shots hit, whether they were drives, iron shots, 206 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:57.679 chips or puts as an a as grade in it 207 00:10:57.720 --> 00:10:59.519 as an ad man, I did everything right there. It's 208 00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:02.039 impossible to do for one hundred percent of the shots, 209 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:04.639 but seventy five percent was kind of my checklist. And 210 00:11:04.639 --> 00:11:07.000 I'll go through my yardage book at the end on 211 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:09.440 my pin sheet and our grade every shot, and at 212 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:10.799 the end, I was saying, man, that was a good 213 00:11:10.879 --> 00:11:13.120 round of golf today. I got seventy eight percent of 214 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:16.080 routines done to my liking. 215 00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:27.279 You mentioned being emotionless when you're playing, even though you're 216 00:11:27.320 --> 00:11:31.279 an outgoing guy. At what stage of your development as 217 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:34.519 a golfer from I'm sure you started as a very 218 00:11:34.519 --> 00:11:37.320 young age, started playing through the time that you finally 219 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:42.159 made it to the Tour and beyond that, what was 220 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:46.440 the point in that development that you realized how or 221 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:50.360 learned how to be emotionless while you're playing golf. 222 00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:53.600 Yeah, I think it's when I dedicated myself to the 223 00:11:53.639 --> 00:11:55.960 mental side of the game. In twenty oh four, I'd 224 00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:59.360 failed again at second stage of qualifying school and I 225 00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:03.480 had a five drive back home, and you know, I'm 226 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:05.240 looking forward to blawing on the Mini Tours. But yet 227 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:08.159 another year, at thirty four years old or thirty three 228 00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:11.600 years old or whatever, I had a wife and a 229 00:12:11.639 --> 00:12:15.279 newborn son, and you know, obviously what I was doing 230 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:18.519 wasn't working. Because it was working well enough to make 231 00:12:18.559 --> 00:12:21.120 money on the Mini Tours, which is almost impossible, and 232 00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:24.559 to win events every single year, but it just wasn't 233 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:26.879 enough to get over that hump of getting through second 234 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:29.840 stage of qualifying school. So when I dedicated myself to that, 235 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:35.279 I was able to see a different path, see a 236 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:42.000 path where to be in control of one's mental makeup, 237 00:12:42.120 --> 00:12:47.519 one's emotional makeup, the ability to react positivetively not negatively, 238 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:50.360 to talk kindly to yourself, all of these things that 239 00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:54.720 we see in every gold psychology book we read. But 240 00:12:55.080 --> 00:12:58.519 what brought life to it was reading the Eight Traits 241 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:02.720 of Champion Golfers by Graham and John Stabler, and I 242 00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:05.639 just kind of just threw myself into it. And the 243 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:07.720 more I read of that, the more of these little 244 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:10.759 vignettes would come out to help me on the golf course. 245 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:15.320 And it wasn't theory. It was it was practical, practical advice. 246 00:13:15.399 --> 00:13:18.159 You do this, this will happen. You do this differently, 247 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:20.360 this will happen differently. And that's what I wanted. I 248 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:24.080 just wanted a roadmap. And to that point I didn't 249 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:27.000 have a roadmap. I was kind of a little bit 250 00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:30.200 lost in exactly what it is I needed to do. 251 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:34.200 And this helped just focus me a little bit more 252 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:37.879 to instead of, you know, trying lots of different things 253 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:40.919 and wasting energy kind of as I said, going forwards 254 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:43.360 and then saying, well that doesn't work, let's back out 255 00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:46.360 this space and go to another another tunnel and see 256 00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:48.720 if that works. This now was was what it is 257 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:53.559 that I needed, and that was that gave me the 258 00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:56.759 ability to be way more efficient in the time spent 259 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:01.600 with preparation to play golf at the highest levels. As 260 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:04.519 I said, I had family commitments where I didn't need 261 00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:07.840 to be out of the house for eight hours a day, 262 00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:11.679 and so I cut back on my physical practice and 263 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:14.279 spend more time at home. But I would go to 264 00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:19.679 a quiet spot and really work hard in developing the 265 00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:22.200 skills necessary to be able to translate that on the 266 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:27.559 golf course of visualization and relaxation and just awareness, awareness 267 00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:31.799 of how it is you're thinking. You know, we are 268 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:35.039 not very mindful of what's going on. We're not mindful 269 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:38.720 of what we're eating. I eat too quickly, I don't 270 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:40.799 maybe listen the way I should do. I don't open 271 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:43.759 my senses, and all of a sudden, when you become mindful, 272 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:46.960 you're suddenly aware of God tell you what my body 273 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:50.919 is extremely tight here, or I'm now very aware of 274 00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:55.799 these very poor messages I'm telling myself. And I used 275 00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:57.879 to do that. You know, I would get frustrated playing 276 00:14:57.960 --> 00:14:59.759 go if I wouldn't show out and break clubs or 277 00:14:59.799 --> 00:15:04.120 throw clubs or custs or anything. But there was that inward, 278 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:09.519 in a conversation between me and myself about how unacceptable 279 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:11.480 that was and how poor that was and how much 280 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:14.480 I sucked. And you can't be doing that to yourself, 281 00:15:14.519 --> 00:15:16.799 and you flip it around and if your parents had 282 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:19.200 said the same thing to you that you were saying 283 00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:22.279 to yourself, it wouldn't be a very healthy relationship. So, 284 00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:25.159 you know, I've always been a positive guy, but I 285 00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:28.919 could just you know, I was seventy five percent positive. 286 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:31.320 I had to get one hundred percent positive. So everything 287 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:34.879 that I did, every situation that I faced, I framed 288 00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:38.000 it as positively as possible. I could go on top one, 289 00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:41.320 but I could say to myself, you know what, man, 290 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:43.919 your routine felt pretty good there, or you had the 291 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:46.519 right club, or can't wait to hit this next shot 292 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:48.200 and see if we can hit a great shot and 293 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:50.159 then another great shot and make part on this whole. 294 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:53.440 I did that in a PGA two event in Memphis. 295 00:15:53.480 --> 00:15:56.080 It was just a shot out of the blue, like 296 00:15:56.120 --> 00:16:00.120 a pool top that went about one hundred yards. I 297 00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:02.320 hit three with thirty forty yard short of the green, 298 00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:05.679 pitched onto two feet and made part. But if I'd 299 00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:08.639 have got in my own way of telling myself how 300 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:12.159 bad that was, and you know, telling myself, I'm a 301 00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:15.120 PGA tour plan, I've just topped a ball and look 302 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:17.960 at all those people watching. How embarrassing is that? I 303 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:21.240 can't believe I'm a pros just done that. My mind 304 00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:24.759 just went immediately to let's frame this as positive as possible. 305 00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:26.440 Let's get onto the next shot. They said a great 306 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:28.639 shot here, and they said another great shot. And that's 307 00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:29.080 what I did. 308 00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:32.720 What a great lesson. And many of those are in 309 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:34.759 the book. And again we are going to get to 310 00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:38.159 the book. I'm just more fascinated about your development right now. 311 00:16:38.679 --> 00:16:41.759 I think I think that's why the book is so powerful, 312 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:46.799 is because it is actually based in a realistic, actual 313 00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:51.480 things that happen. And you know, I like to think 314 00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:56.159 that things are taught better or easier or people understand 315 00:16:56.240 --> 00:17:00.840 things when it's based in things that happen everyday life. 316 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:03.120 And I think that's a powerful way. You know, when 317 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:06.200 you had teachers at school who could turn a very 318 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:10.920 boring history lesson into something that came alive, where you 319 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:15.559 put yourself in that battle or in that courtroom drama 320 00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:18.279 or whatever it was in that you know, you know, 321 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:22.039 congressional meeting, whatever it was. When I heard those kinds 322 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:26.440 of stories, I just lived at I was there. I imagined, 323 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:29.759 I could you know, vividly imagine being you know, somewhere 324 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:32.599 two hundred years ago. And I think that's the secret 325 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:36.599 to good teaching, good write, in, good broadcast, in whatever 326 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:40.559 it is. You've got to allow that person to experience 327 00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:43.920 what it is they experience and then help them change 328 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:44.599 that experience. 329 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:50.839 Are you self taught in all of all your development 330 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:54.920 or did you have a variety of instructors from the 331 00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:56.240 beginning all the way through. 332 00:17:56.839 --> 00:17:59.000 Well, I was self taught until I was twenty six. 333 00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:01.839 With a golf swing. My dad was a genius without 334 00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:05.759 knowing it. He he as a kid, would have me 335 00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:08.759 I was a six and we would hit balls and 336 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:10.960 he would put a stick on the other side of 337 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:12.720 the ball and would tell me just to make the 338 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:17.000 divot after the stick, you know, And as a six 339 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:19.720 year old kid, you don't ask why, You just say, okay, 340 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:22.240 I'll do that then, because my dad told me to 341 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:24.559 do it, so it must be right. And that gave 342 00:18:24.599 --> 00:18:26.759 me a hundred lessons without him knowing it. It gave 343 00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:28.960 me a steady head, It gave me a good pivot, 344 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:31.680 It gave me a flat left wrist to impact. He 345 00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:35.279 gave me weight transition. It did everything that you needed 346 00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:37.279 to do to hit the ball consistently. So I've never 347 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:40.440 ever worried about making good contact with the ball because 348 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:42.720 of that lesson when I was six. But you know 349 00:18:42.759 --> 00:18:47.200 I got through you know, junior golfert whatever level I 350 00:18:47.240 --> 00:18:50.839 played in England, I earned a scholarship to Auburn. Being 351 00:18:50.920 --> 00:18:55.240 self taught, which in many respects was, you know, maybe 352 00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:57.839 put me a little bit behind other people. But I 353 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:00.680 think what I gained from it was I own my swing. 354 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:03.519 I owned the DNA of my swing, so I was 355 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:06.799 able to correct things way quicker than other people because 356 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:09.480 I could correct things on the course because in effect, 357 00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:13.039 I was my own coach, whereas other players with way 358 00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:14.839 better swings than me, as soon as they hit one 359 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:18.160 bad shot, you know, if mister coach isn't there, they 360 00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:20.480 don't know how to go to Plan B or how 361 00:19:20.519 --> 00:19:23.640 to correct when things go wrong. And so I knew 362 00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:26.920 that obviously I had to finally get a coach, and 363 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:29.680 so when I was twenty six, I started working with 364 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:32.880 a great coach called Wayne Flint, top one hundred instruct 365 00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:36.240 who lived close to where I lived in Birmingham, and 366 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:39.960 that helped refine what it was I did already, but 367 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:43.279 it didn't change the DNA of the swing. So I 368 00:19:43.319 --> 00:19:47.519 still had the belief and the feel and the understanding 369 00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:50.000 of the swing, but we just in effect knocked off 370 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:54.119 the rough edges and with the golf psychology. I read 371 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:56.200 a load of books, they didn't really speak to me, 372 00:19:56.359 --> 00:19:59.480 you know, Bob Rotello. I enjoyed those books, but it 373 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:01.480 didn't feel like it was tailored to me. It was, 374 00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:05.000 you know, some lovely little anecdotes that I could get 375 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:08.960 stuff from, but I needed something that was more for me, 376 00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:12.440 a personalized touch, and that's where Deborah Graham and John 377 00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:15.240 Stables book spoke to me. So then I started working 378 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:18.200 with them on a one to one basis and that 379 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:21.039 just helped solidify what I knew already. So it was 380 00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:23.279 kind of the same kind of thing with the swing 381 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:25.000 and the mental side of the game. I was basically 382 00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:27.880 self taught and then had the experts come in and 383 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:30.119 just knocked the rough edges off and just help the 384 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:31.359 understanding a little further. 385 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:37.319 Excellent. So what was harder getting to the tour or 386 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:38.480 staying on the tour? 387 00:20:39.319 --> 00:20:42.519 Well, in many respects, I feel a bit like Jim Brown. 388 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:45.640 Injury took my career before I really got a chance 389 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:49.079 to enjoy it. So you certainly get into the tour 390 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:52.599 was the hardest thing. Yeah, when I was playing it 391 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:55.319 was top one twenty five would keep their card. I'll 392 00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:57.640 be honest, I don't think I had to play that 393 00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:00.880 well to keep my card. I earned my card on 394 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:03.039 the corn for it to a play at a level 395 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:04.920 I would call an A or an A minors to 396 00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:09.079 finish in the top twenty five, I finished ninth. And 397 00:21:09.400 --> 00:21:11.920 I played my rookie year on the PGA Tour. I 398 00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:17.640 made the FedEx Cup playoffs. I had six or seven 399 00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:21.119 top twenties, top ten, So I played, you know, had 400 00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:23.920 some good results, and I mean I would grade myself 401 00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:28.519