1 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:19,559 Speaker 1: At a. 2 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:28,879 Speaker 2: Book. 3 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 3: If you'd like to be able to listen to the 4 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,959 show without ads and have full access to bonus content, 5 00:01:32,359 --> 00:01:35,599 that's an option. To find out how, please go to 6 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:42,760 Dogmanencounters dot com forward slash podcast. One of Tonight's guests, 7 00:01:42,879 --> 00:01:46,239 Kyle Roth, was featured on episode six thirty last week, 8 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,319 where he came on and talked about a dogman he 9 00:01:48,319 --> 00:01:51,599 had some encounters with in South Africa that he calls 10 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,280 white Man. Well, he agreed to come back and do 11 00:01:55,319 --> 00:01:57,480 a Q and A because we didn't have nearly enough 12 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,480 time for me to ask all the questions I had 13 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,560 for him on that show. Well, it's add a surprise. 14 00:02:03,959 --> 00:02:06,760 I found out in the process of scheduling this Q 15 00:02:06,959 --> 00:02:10,560 and A that Marcus had an interest in joining us. 16 00:02:10,599 --> 00:02:14,280 Marcus Smith. So for tonight's show, I want to welcome 17 00:02:14,319 --> 00:02:18,719 both Kyle Roth and Marcus Smitt back on. Gentlemen, thanks 18 00:02:18,719 --> 00:02:19,879 so much for joining. 19 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: Us, Thank you for having us pick. Thank you, it's 20 00:02:22,719 --> 00:02:23,800 a big pleasure to be here. 21 00:02:24,479 --> 00:02:27,599 Speaker 3: Well, it's great half in you Kai. For the people 22 00:02:27,599 --> 00:02:30,280 who missed episode six point thirty, please give us a 23 00:02:30,319 --> 00:02:31,599 brief bio on yourself. 24 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, my name is Kay Ross. I'm nineteen years old. 25 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,319 I've been born and raised in capt On my whole life, 26 00:02:41,159 --> 00:02:44,919 moved around quite a bit here and there, and right now, 27 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,240 I currently live in a small holiday village called Pringle Bay, 28 00:02:48,479 --> 00:02:54,240 where I've had my sightings with white Man. Yeah, I mean, 29 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,000 I'm a very outdoors person. I love nature, always have 30 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:02,639 always loved animals my whole life. And yeah, I'd love 31 00:03:02,719 --> 00:03:05,280 being in the ocean. I've got a good group of mates. 32 00:03:05,319 --> 00:03:09,080 I can't complain about that. And yeah, I'm out of school. 33 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:16,319 I'm matriculated two years ago and I'm currently working. And yeah, 34 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:18,039 that's pretty much about. 35 00:03:17,719 --> 00:03:19,159 Speaker 1: Me, all right. 36 00:03:19,159 --> 00:03:20,599 Speaker 3: How about you, Marcus? 37 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, my name is Marcus. I met Kai here in 38 00:03:25,319 --> 00:03:28,800 this little town. I moved in about two years before 39 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,719 him and me and my family also moved around in 40 00:03:32,719 --> 00:03:38,280 South Africa a lot, and we spent almost every end 41 00:03:38,319 --> 00:03:41,080 of the year camping out at a campsite that we're 42 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:45,879 also a very outdoors family. The friend group that me 43 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,439 and Kyle pot of we love going on camps as well. 44 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,960 At one point we did a few regular scheduled camps 45 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:58,719 which was very fun. Like Kai also love animals and nature, 46 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,520 and he's been get me into the thing and bodyboarding 47 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:02,879 that we do. 48 00:04:03,039 --> 00:04:07,759 Speaker 3: Yet both of you guys sound so nice. It sounds 49 00:04:07,759 --> 00:04:09,840 to me like you're awfully lucky to have each other 50 00:04:09,879 --> 00:04:11,879 as friends. And the fact that you live in such 51 00:04:11,919 --> 00:04:14,840 a beautiful place. I mean, it doesn't get any better 52 00:04:14,879 --> 00:04:15,199 than that. 53 00:04:16,519 --> 00:04:18,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree, I would agree strongly. 54 00:04:19,879 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, it sure doesn't. Ky, Can you give us a 55 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,319 brief flyover of those encounters you told us about with 56 00:04:26,399 --> 00:04:29,040 white Man on episode six thirty for the people who 57 00:04:29,079 --> 00:04:30,839 might have missed that episode. 58 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:32,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, Rick. 59 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,079 Speaker 2: So, in summary, what happened was, well about a week 60 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,839 I had a very old feeling that something was watching 61 00:04:40,879 --> 00:04:44,959 me at night. It was specifically strong at nights, and 62 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,079 I would be very on edge. I'd have my eyes 63 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,120 darting around, ears would be tuned in, and the hay 64 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:57,560 on my body would be raised. And then shortly after 65 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:02,120 I had a sighting with a dog man we believed 66 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,639 to be a dog man, which we later called white Men. 67 00:05:06,759 --> 00:05:09,560 And in summary, what happened was my dog was barking 68 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,639 at night, and I went out with my sister to 69 00:05:12,639 --> 00:05:16,839 go get the dog, and I noticed there was something 70 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,199 very off with the dog, her aggression level and the 71 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:24,879 hair on her back. And then I saw what I 72 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,959 first I thought was an old neighbor walking in the road, 73 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:35,240 and when I greeted them, the said person dropped down 74 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,439 to all fours and me and this dog man were 75 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,040 kind of in a stalemate position for about five to 76 00:05:42,079 --> 00:05:45,720 ten minutes whilst my sister got my dad and my 77 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,560 dad came out, and then my dad switched on the 78 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,600 car and a dog man booked it down the empty 79 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:57,439 plot across our road. And yeah, I went to bed 80 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:01,000 that night, and at about eleven o'clock it came back 81 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:06,879 and was tapping on our outside window. And after about 82 00:06:06,879 --> 00:06:08,920 an hour of it, I got full of what was 83 00:06:08,959 --> 00:06:13,519 happening and looked outside and I saw it silhouette, standing 84 00:06:13,879 --> 00:06:19,879 literally to two panes of glass away. And then I 85 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,920 got my parents. I got my dad and we went 86 00:06:23,959 --> 00:06:27,399 outside and didn't find anything and nothing else for the 87 00:06:27,399 --> 00:06:32,639 rest of that night. And then, yeah, I mean, that's 88 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,720 the only sightings I've ever had. I obviously ran through 89 00:06:35,759 --> 00:06:38,879 some of my friends sightings and encounters in the last episode, 90 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,519 and then yeah, pretty much just me feeling off for 91 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,519 a few weeks and months after that. But that's pretty 92 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,639 much what I experienced. Yeah, and I told about in 93 00:06:51,639 --> 00:06:52,560 the last episode. 94 00:06:53,319 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 3: Did a great job sharing those experiences to Marcus on 95 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,399 episode six thirty. Of course, Kai told us about dream Counter, 96 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,240 But it's a lot different to have someone share your 97 00:07:03,319 --> 00:07:06,680 experience than to share it yourself. So now I want 98 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:08,759 you to please tell us in your own words, what 99 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:10,720 happened when you had that experience? 100 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:17,879 Speaker 1: Absolutely so about one or two months, maybe a few 101 00:07:17,879 --> 00:07:21,279 weeks more than that. Off the Kai sighting of the 102 00:07:21,319 --> 00:07:24,839 dog Man, I was an overcast weather with a bit 103 00:07:24,879 --> 00:07:27,519 of a drizzle coming down. I decided that I was 104 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:29,800 going to go on walk. It's one of my favorite 105 00:07:29,879 --> 00:07:32,360 types of weather to go for a walk in. And 106 00:07:32,439 --> 00:07:35,759 I decided I'm going to head off into our local forest, 107 00:07:36,959 --> 00:07:40,040 and so I took my skateboard with me, and the 108 00:07:40,199 --> 00:07:42,480 entrance of the forest, I hid it under a bush 109 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,480 and I walked in. Now, as I'm walking in, usually 110 00:07:46,519 --> 00:07:50,160 in this type of when the area gets wet, you 111 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,839 have lots of these little frogs croaking, but in their 112 00:07:53,959 --> 00:07:57,800 hundreds croaking, So there's constantly this noise going on, and 113 00:07:57,839 --> 00:08:02,360 I hear some birds up being around. And so to 114 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,720 get to the specific area I was planning on going 115 00:08:04,759 --> 00:08:09,319 off or going to, you have to walk through this 116 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:14,639 almost tunnel of these long, sticky thieves. And so I'm 117 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:19,199 making my way through the tunnel, and for some other reason, 118 00:08:20,079 --> 00:08:23,639 the heads on my next start to raise. And so 119 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:25,800 at the time I didn't think much of it. I 120 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,160 think I told myself it's probably just the redess of 121 00:08:29,199 --> 00:08:33,799 it all. And it pushed through. So I walk through 122 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,679 the tunnel and I get up on this sand dune, 123 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:39,879 and so this is now the sort of open plane 124 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,519 where the fame was growing at about your knees length, 125 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,639 and it's just a fast open plane with the road 126 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,799 about a few hundred meters off, and so there's a 127 00:08:50,799 --> 00:08:54,440 little foot party follow and then you break off. I 128 00:08:54,519 --> 00:08:58,080 broke off from the path, still just pushing through whatever 129 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,480 I was feeling at the time, and I you round 130 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:05,240 this one. So I'm planning on going to this river valley. 131 00:09:05,799 --> 00:09:08,879 There's the Lagoon River that comes all the way down 132 00:09:08,879 --> 00:09:13,000 from the mountains, and this place I'm going to has 133 00:09:13,039 --> 00:09:16,080 a lovely rock that I was planning on sitting by 134 00:09:16,519 --> 00:09:20,320 and just carving sticks and whatnot. To to get there, 135 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,279 you have to round this bush and then there's a 136 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,200 drop down maybe about two meters that you then just 137 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,120 slide down, and then you end up on the rock. 138 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:38,080 So as I then round bush, I noticed that everything 139 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,919 just went then, all the frogs, all the birds, there 140 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,159 was nothing. And that immediately put me off because I 141 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,360 know that if there's something, if there's a predator animal around, 142 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,159 usually the animals go the other animals go quiet, and 143 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,240 so I immediately jumped to there's a lepard in the area. 144 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,039 We have baboons, but they don't really cause such a 145 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,039 reaction in the other animals, so I immediately thought there 146 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:08,039 was a leopard in nearby, and so leopards you can scare 147 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,080 away quite easy if you know how. It's very You 148 00:10:11,279 --> 00:10:14,320 just act very intimidating, don't lose your ground, and the 149 00:10:14,399 --> 00:10:17,879 old runoff and they're very shy in as well. So 150 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:22,039 I just decided to keep on going. And as I 151 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,240 stepped then there's again there's this little bowl behind this 152 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:29,240 bush that leads to the entrance of the rock beach. 153 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,320 I look over across the river and I see this 154 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:38,399 white object hidden behind lots of foliage, and my first 155 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,000 thought was that it's just some of the foam. When 156 00:10:41,039 --> 00:10:45,320 the lagoon want to get stale, it produces this white foam. 157 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:47,759 So my first thought was it's probably just a big 158 00:10:47,919 --> 00:10:52,240 keeper foam behind all the foliage. As I take maybe 159 00:10:52,399 --> 00:10:56,679 three steps into that little bowl, I see this mat, 160 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:01,639 this white mass rise up. Take a few steps, and 161 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:06,000 I'm immediately frozen. It takes a few steps away from me, 162 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:12,320 stops and then keeps walking upstream. And once I lose 163 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:16,600 sight of it, I just immediately I crunk, crouch down, 164 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,360 I hunk it up. I take out my pocket knife 165 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,480 for what it was worth, and I just very slowly 166 00:11:23,519 --> 00:11:27,960 and very quietly backed out all the way that entire route. 167 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:31,480 I was walking backwards, just keeping my eye on the 168 00:11:31,879 --> 00:11:34,879 area from which I came, and I remember I got 169 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,840 to the exit of the forest, grew up my skateboard, 170 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,320 and I bolted down, and maybe five hundred meters past 171 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,559 the forest, I started hearing the front again, and I 172 00:11:45,639 --> 00:11:49,039 remember they're seeing that thing, because the hairs everywhere lays 173 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,919 very similar to what I described. All of my body 174 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,279 is raising. I remember feeling a strange dread. But I remember, 175 00:11:57,399 --> 00:12:01,120 I'm just like, I'm just gonna touchdown. I'm just going 176 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,200 to hide. Seeing it walk away from me, I saw 177 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,679 it obviously didn't want anything with me, and I remember, 178 00:12:07,879 --> 00:12:11,120 it's just stay quiet. I'm just going to leave, not 179 00:12:11,159 --> 00:12:13,679 going to look for trouble. Whatever this thing is, it 180 00:12:13,799 --> 00:12:18,039 just looks like it wants to mind it. And that's 181 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,759 about as much as I can remember. I remember just 182 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,120 after the entire encounter. I remember I stayed boarded back 183 00:12:25,159 --> 00:12:28,320 home when I brought myself in the room and I 184 00:12:28,399 --> 00:12:30,919 just sat for a bit, maybe an hour. Would you 185 00:12:31,039 --> 00:12:34,000 just the process the entire thing, and afterwards I told 186 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,200 Kai and the rest of the of what happened. 187 00:12:37,159 --> 00:12:39,879 Speaker 3: That's a lot to take in. Did you ever have 188 00:12:39,879 --> 00:12:43,039 any other experiences, Marcus that you could attribute to White 189 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,120 main were maybe you think he might have been tormenting 190 00:12:46,159 --> 00:12:49,960 you after that first sighting, just the same way that 191 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,240 he did with Kai, after Kai had his first encounter 192 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:53,639 with him. 193 00:12:54,919 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: So off the top of my head, I don't really 194 00:12:58,039 --> 00:13:02,480 remember any significant sight things like that one after that. 195 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:07,159 I do remember a few nights after that. The dogs 196 00:13:07,159 --> 00:13:10,320 were very we have at the time, we had two dogs. 197 00:13:10,519 --> 00:13:13,840 They were extremely on edge the whole night long. I 198 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,080 remember my dad made a point of it the next 199 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,519 morning to tell me that he just couldn't get any 200 00:13:18,519 --> 00:13:20,559 sleep letting the dogs in and then they want to 201 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,080 come out, and then they want to go. They're just 202 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,279 in and out the house the entire night long, and 203 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,799 I remember as well that night just hearing the dogs 204 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,840 barking and howling. But that's as close as I can 205 00:13:31,879 --> 00:13:34,600 think to a direct connection to white men. 206 00:13:35,639 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 3: Oh good, I'm glad he didn't force the issue and 207 00:13:39,159 --> 00:13:41,440 torment me. Then hate the fact that he did that 208 00:13:41,519 --> 00:13:45,000 to Kai though. If you've had a Dogman encounter that 209 00:13:45,039 --> 00:13:46,919 you need help dealing with, or if you'd like to 210 00:13:46,919 --> 00:13:50,120 be a guest on the show, please go to Dogmanencounters 211 00:13:50,159 --> 00:13:53,320 dot com and submit a report. If you've had a 212 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,440 bigfoot sighting 'll like to be a guest on one 213 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,399 of my two big foot podcasts, please go to my 214 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,799 Bigfoot Sighting dot com. I know you too are good friends, 215 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,559 very good friends. But before he actually laid eyes on 216 00:14:05,639 --> 00:14:10,000 white men, how sure were you that Kai actually had 217 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,960 experienced what he told you he had. Did you believe 218 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,759 one hundred percent or was there a little bit of 219 00:14:15,799 --> 00:14:16,559 doubt there. 220 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,799 Speaker 1: When Kai first told me. I remember me and my 221 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:26,159 friends kind of made a joke about it, but he 222 00:14:26,399 --> 00:14:29,200 just never caved in, Like you didn't go, oh, it's 223 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,919 all the joke. He literally he just kept pressing us 224 00:14:31,919 --> 00:14:35,000 and telling us that what he saw was real. And 225 00:14:35,679 --> 00:14:37,639 I think for the whole day long, he's just telling 226 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:39,600 us the same thing over and over and over, and 227 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:45,320 I realized that, Okay, he probably did something. My first 228 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:50,120 thought it was that it was maybe someone dressed up 229 00:14:50,159 --> 00:14:53,600 as something, or maybe someone who painted themselves white, or 230 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,559 maybe it's just someone playing a prank. And I sort 231 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,639 of that was one of the doubts I had until 232 00:15:01,759 --> 00:15:05,519 I went and had and saw the thing at the lagoon, 233 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,320 And it was at that point that I just realized 234 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,799 whatever Kai told me described to what he saw. That's 235 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:13,159 probably isolating. 236 00:15:14,159 --> 00:15:16,279 Speaker 3: This might be hard to admit, but in a way, 237 00:15:17,159 --> 00:15:20,440 were you hoping maybe that Kai had just mistook something 238 00:15:20,559 --> 00:15:23,399 like you just laid out for us, and hadn't actually 239 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:27,720 seen what he said he saw. Because Pringle Bay sounds 240 00:15:27,759 --> 00:15:30,559 like a beautiful place, and it's obvious that you two 241 00:15:31,039 --> 00:15:33,799 have an amazing time running around doing all the things 242 00:15:33,879 --> 00:15:36,720 you do together. Well, when you have a dog man 243 00:15:36,799 --> 00:15:41,399 running around paradise, that tends to change things. That takes 244 00:15:41,399 --> 00:15:44,679 some of the shine off of a very pretty thing 245 00:15:44,919 --> 00:15:49,120 like Pringle Bay? Deep down, were you hoping that maybe 246 00:15:49,159 --> 00:15:54,720 he had mistakenly identified something else as being the dog man? 247 00:15:57,039 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: So at first I was more scared that would be 248 00:16:00,279 --> 00:16:04,480 with someone who's lost their mind, who has just gone insane, 249 00:16:04,879 --> 00:16:08,000 because if a person is acting like that, then then 250 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,360 there's really something going on. But after my encounter with it, 251 00:16:13,159 --> 00:16:18,679 I don't really feel threatened by it. I feel the 252 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,399 way that I managed to react to it and how 253 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,919 it just went off on it. I feel like it 254 00:16:25,039 --> 00:16:29,279 might just be another animal that wants to be left alone. 255 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,960 I've had this thought come up that it does make 256 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,919 walking around alone, which is something I love to do, 257 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,120 It makes that a bit more difficult for me. But 258 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,320 like I said, I haven't had any other horrible encounters 259 00:16:43,399 --> 00:16:47,639 with it, or any other encounters in matter fact at 260 00:16:47,639 --> 00:16:50,919 all with it, and so I feel like I almost 261 00:16:50,919 --> 00:16:53,960 see it as just part of the wildlife. 262 00:16:54,159 --> 00:16:56,759 Speaker 3: Well that's a really good thing. I'm glad you're you 263 00:16:56,759 --> 00:16:59,679 able to deal with this in such a healthy way. 264 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,519 That sure does be feel alternative, KI, why mean tormented you? 265 00:17:04,599 --> 00:17:07,519 Like I said earlier, after he had that first encounter 266 00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:11,000 with him, do you see that as an indication that 267 00:17:11,279 --> 00:17:14,440 he is an evil being? Or do you think that's 268 00:17:14,559 --> 00:17:18,079 just how this particular dog man is. He was just 269 00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:22,319 trying to get some jollies by tormenting you the way 270 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:22,720 he did. 271 00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 2: To be completely honest with you, Vic, in my mind, 272 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,680 after thinking about it for quite a while, I feel 273 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:38,079 like that tormenting afterwards was in my mind a bit 274 00:17:38,079 --> 00:17:40,599 more of curiosity. From its side, I think it was 275 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,559 just trying to chaste me, and some part of it 276 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,200 may have been trying to scare me for the fun 277 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,960 of it. But in my mind, I've always viewed it 278 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:54,240 as it just being like curious about me. But to 279 00:17:54,279 --> 00:17:57,000 be honest with you again, I don't live in fear 280 00:17:57,039 --> 00:18:00,240 of it every day, and I to be honest with you, 281 00:18:00,319 --> 00:18:02,519 I'm on the same boat as Marcus. 282 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 1: I feel as. 283 00:18:03,519 --> 00:18:07,319 Speaker 2: Though it is just a part of the wildlife, and 284 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,599 unfortunately that's that is how, that is what the situation 285 00:18:10,759 --> 00:18:11,319 is at the moment. 286 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 1: Whether we like it or not, it lives here. 287 00:18:14,519 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 2: And as I said in the last episode, I do 288 00:18:17,279 --> 00:18:19,240 believe that it is a flesh and blood creature. 289 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,079 Speaker 1: So I mean, whether we like it. 290 00:18:23,079 --> 00:18:24,599 Speaker 2: Or not, it's in my in my eyes and in 291 00:18:24,599 --> 00:18:26,799 my opinion, I view it as a part of the 292 00:18:26,839 --> 00:18:28,400 wildlife on the ecosystem here. 293 00:18:29,519 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 3: I really do like the outlook that both of you 294 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,559 guys have. That's really good. Ki when you're in that 295 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,680 standoff with him, the first time you saw him, could 296 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:40,519 you see any expression on his face? 297 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 2: And so, to be honest with you, I couldn't see 298 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,079 any like human expressions on its face, if that's what 299 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,240 you're asking. So it didn't give me a smile or 300 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,519 a frown or anything like that. It more just look 301 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,759 shocked because it had these perfectly circular eyes, and it 302 00:19:02,799 --> 00:19:05,160 looked like it had them open as wide as possible, 303 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,759 and its ears were facing me, but they didn't twitch once. So, 304 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,559 if I'm being honest with you, the only feeling I 305 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,319 got off of orf of white men when I had 306 00:19:17,319 --> 00:19:19,960 my first stand off with it was that it was 307 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,480 defensive and it was a bit surprised. So it was 308 00:19:23,039 --> 00:19:25,240 kind of stood there just waiting to see what I 309 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,880 was doing or what I was going to do. So 310 00:19:29,079 --> 00:19:32,559 to answer a question, I would say, shocked is the 311 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,960 only thing I can really the only word I can 312 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,880 really give you. But it didn't, it didn't like physically 313 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,319 give me a human emotion or like a like a 314 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,079 gesture on its face. 315 00:19:46,079 --> 00:19:50,079 Speaker 3: Due to his positioning or mannerisms, he said, he clearly 316 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,519 seemed to be shocked, but did he ever do anything? 317 00:19:52,559 --> 00:19:54,799 They give you the impression might have been afraid. 318 00:19:57,839 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 2: I don't think it was afraid at any point. I 319 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,880 think it was just defensive. Like it how I saw 320 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,640 it is it knew its power, it knew what it 321 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,200 was capable of, and it knew it had the upper hand. 322 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,279 It was just waiting to see what my play was. Obviously, 323 00:20:15,759 --> 00:20:18,519 I'm thankful that I didn't do anything else, but say, 324 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,920 for example, maybe I moved forward and it knew it 325 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:23,799 had the upper hand and it felt defense and it 326 00:20:23,839 --> 00:20:27,440 could have either come at me or ran away. So 327 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,079 I wouldn't say it was scared at any points. I 328 00:20:30,079 --> 00:20:34,200 think it was just testing me in a way. I 329 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:39,240 obviously think again my dog was going, and probably it 330 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,519 noticed the dog but didn't give much notice to it. 331 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,119 And then when I came, maybe scared it a boat 332 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:47,559 to gave it a bit of fright, and so it 333 00:20:47,519 --> 00:20:51,759 immediately jumped into defensive and then was just over time 334 00:20:51,839 --> 00:20:54,839 watching to see what I would do. So that would 335 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,839 be my answer to you. I don't think it was scared. 336 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,400 I think it was more just assessing me and seeing 337 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,880 what I was lacking what I'll do. 338 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 3: Well, it's good you noticed all that, and you're probably 339 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,400 spot on. That's probably what was going on, Marcus. When 340 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,799 you saw white Man that day the Lagoon River. It 341 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,039 sounds to me like you might have been hiding from 342 00:21:15,079 --> 00:21:17,960 you before he eventually arose, making it very easy for 343 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,440 you to see him. Do you think he actually was 344 00:21:20,559 --> 00:21:22,440 hiding from you at first? 345 00:21:24,559 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: I'm not really sure about that. My impression was that 346 00:21:29,079 --> 00:21:34,480 it was almost like certain animals they grades. I feel 347 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,759 like white Man at that point was really just minding 348 00:21:37,799 --> 00:21:41,559 its own business. It wasn't laying down or hiding. I 349 00:21:41,559 --> 00:21:46,480 know that was definitely it was definitely upright, but I 350 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,119 think it was on all fours. And it was when 351 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,559 I went closer and saw that it rose and walked off. 352 00:21:55,200 --> 00:22:00,319 So the way I took it was that I sort 353 00:22:00,319 --> 00:22:04,720 of intruded on this animal's maybe territory or maybe its 354 00:22:04,759 --> 00:22:08,200 personal space, and it just didn't like the feel of that, 355 00:22:08,319 --> 00:22:12,319 and it just and it walking off to me was 356 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,799 sort of that was the chance I took to just 357 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,599 leave it alone. I'm not going to mess with this creature. 358 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,400 But back to your question, I think I don't think 359 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,440 it was hiding. I think it was just minding its 360 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:25,400 own business. 361 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,279 Speaker 3: If you think he was put off by you being 362 00:22:28,319 --> 00:22:31,759 there that day. As far as his pasture will go, 363 00:22:32,279 --> 00:22:35,240 how would you describe it? Was he more hunched forward 364 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:36,359 or more upright? 365 00:22:38,279 --> 00:22:43,279 Speaker 1: So when I first saw it, thinking about its physiology, now, 366 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:47,799 it was most likely crouched down on all foods, and 367 00:22:47,839 --> 00:22:50,880 it was only that I got close to it that 368 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,960 it then reared up. But it definitely had forward arching 369 00:22:55,079 --> 00:23:00,440 back with very long, lanky legs, and I I would 370 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,240 assume by the way it was walking that it had 371 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,759 a backward bending meat that you'd see and dogs. 372 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 3: Those are good descriptions, Kile. Baboons don't come down to 373 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,559 the ground at night. Do you go on your night 374 00:23:11,599 --> 00:23:14,119 walks instead of day walks to avoid the ones that 375 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,799 run around your village or for some other reason. 376 00:23:19,279 --> 00:23:21,759 Speaker 2: To be honest with you, Vick, we probably walk around 377 00:23:21,839 --> 00:23:25,480 more during the day than we do at night. And 378 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,039 the baboons that don't bother you un this if you 379 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:30,440 have food on you. 380 00:23:31,039 --> 00:23:32,759 Speaker 1: So I mean we walk. 381 00:23:32,559 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 2: Around during the day more than we do at night. 382 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,279 The main reason why we guard at nights is purely 383 00:23:37,279 --> 00:23:40,319 because it's more quiet. There's no cars going around, there's 384 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:44,279 not people talking, and it really gives you an opportunity 385 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,319 to just accept the peace of the place of this 386 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,839 town that we live in. And I suppose it's just 387 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,119 always that that thing of being out at night like it, 388 00:23:54,599 --> 00:23:57,759 I don't know, just it kind of lifts our mood 389 00:23:57,839 --> 00:24:00,880 a bit, and it it helps everyone to interact with 390 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,319 each other, but then to have a better time than 391 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,960 if we were to do something during the day. And yeah, 392 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,720 I guess we all just enjoy exploring at night. It's 393 00:24:09,839 --> 00:24:13,480 just because then we have the cover of docks, so 394 00:24:13,599 --> 00:24:18,960 we can go into these empty, abandoned housings or lots 395 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,599 and go explore these places without having some grumpy old 396 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:28,279 lady on our rear ends calling someone because they want 397 00:24:28,279 --> 00:24:33,799 to make a complaint. So yeah, I reckon we walk 398 00:24:33,839 --> 00:24:35,880 at nights a lot less than what we do during 399 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,000 the day. But the reason we go at night is 400 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,240 just to have a bit of a better experience. 401 00:24:41,559 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 3: That makes sense, Okay. Yeah, if I didn't ask you 402 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,519 that question, it'd be pretty easy to jump to conclusions 403 00:24:47,559 --> 00:24:49,920 on why you did that. But I'm glad we got 404 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,160 it straight from the horse's mouth. KI, when you first 405 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,119 saw white Man, what kind of substrate was he standing on? 406 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,359 You said he was about twenty meters away from you. 407 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,359 Was it grass? Or something else. 408 00:25:03,599 --> 00:25:08,759 Speaker 2: So it was a gravel road, so it's hard grounding 409 00:25:08,839 --> 00:25:13,079 underneath with a bunch of loose rock, and then it 410 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,079 ran away onto grass which is probably like half a 411 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:23,119 meter and then jumped into this marsh like reeds, and 412 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,519 it's muddy and it's wet, and he pretty much booked 413 00:25:27,519 --> 00:25:31,359 it along there. But those are pretty much the only 414 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,039 the only terrains I would say it really went across. 415 00:25:34,039 --> 00:25:36,559 It was standing on the gravel when I had the 416 00:25:36,599 --> 00:25:41,720 stand up with it, and then it ran across the marshland. 417 00:25:42,319 --> 00:25:45,599 But the problem with that marshland is a lot of 418 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,119 it is sewage and oil and this and that from 419 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,000 neighboring houses that have their irrigations flow out in there. 420 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 3: Listening to describe how things were laid out, obviously on 421 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,839 that hard, gravelly ground across the road, you're not going 422 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,559 to find any prints. But if he did move off 423 00:26:02,599 --> 00:26:05,440 into softer ground the way you said he did, did 424 00:26:05,519 --> 00:26:07,000 you ever go over the looking for prince. 425 00:26:09,599 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 1: No, we did not go looking for prints. 426 00:26:11,519 --> 00:26:14,519 Speaker 2: The one thing that we were mainly focused on myself 427 00:26:14,559 --> 00:26:19,559 and Marcus was calculating its speed, because I remember we 428 00:26:19,599 --> 00:26:22,400 went back about a few days after I had my sighting, 429 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:27,039 and we took an estimate of how long the plot was, 430 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,960 and I gave a time, and we calculated it. And 431 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,160 I won't say the exact speed because I can't recall it, 432 00:26:34,759 --> 00:26:37,319 but we we came to a conclusion that it was 433 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,759 something unbelievably fast, and something much faster than any animal 434 00:26:41,799 --> 00:26:46,480 we have in our in our biosphere. But to answer 435 00:26:46,519 --> 00:26:50,400 your question, Vic, no, we didn't look for tracks purely 436 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,720 because it is unbelievably difficult to move in. And it 437 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,759 just that that marshland stinks of of who and oil. 438 00:27:00,079 --> 00:27:02,440 It's just really not a place you want to go 439 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:03,759 in unless you really have to. 440 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,640 Speaker 3: That's totally understandable. When he went into what seemed to 441 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,000 be that defensive mode across the road from you, was 442 00:27:12,039 --> 00:27:14,640 he looking right at you the whole time? Or was 443 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,119 he looking in a different direction. 444 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,079 Speaker 2: Oh no, his eyes were locked with mind you were 445 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,599 just he didn't He didn't move his eyes once. When 446 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,720 I was looking at him and assessing the other details 447 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,200 of his body, I didn't break eye contact with him. 448 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,680 I was more using the perimeter of my vision to 449 00:27:35,799 --> 00:27:38,440 assess that. But I never My eyes always stayed on 450 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,519 his and his stayed on And we didn't break eye 451 00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:44,480 contact up until the point and my dad turned on 452 00:27:44,519 --> 00:27:47,119 the edge and he ran down the plot. 453 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,799 Speaker 3: When he boarded into that marsh after your dad started 454 00:27:50,839 --> 00:27:53,960 his car. Did he do so on two legs or 455 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,240 four legs? 456 00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: He ran on four legs. 457 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 2: But from what I saw, it looked like a very 458 00:28:02,519 --> 00:28:06,640 weird run. It looked like almost he was grabbing the 459 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,039 ground and then throwing himself forward. 460 00:28:09,559 --> 00:28:11,839 Speaker 1: It didn't look like a normal dog's run. 461 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,039 Speaker 2: And that's another thing that caught me was it looked 462 00:28:15,039 --> 00:28:18,359 like he would grab with one hand pull and then 463 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,319 grab the next and pull and just almost ran like that. 464 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,680 It didn't look looked like a dog. I physically saw 465 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:31,440 the elbow's bend and still hold the ground up until 466 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:37,559 he fully extended his arm again. And so yeah, that's 467 00:28:38,039 --> 00:28:41,079 pretty much how I would describe that he moved. 468 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,279 Speaker 3: Your head must have been spinning at the time, and 469 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,559 understandably so, so if you don't know the answer to this, 470 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,279 it's totally understandable. But by chance, did you ever notice 471 00:28:52,319 --> 00:28:55,240 if he put his back legs between his front legs 472 00:28:55,279 --> 00:28:57,559 when he would run and pull back like that, or 473 00:28:57,839 --> 00:29:00,000 if it weren't outside of his front. 474 00:28:59,759 --> 00:29:08,319 Speaker 2: Leg Yeah, if for a core correctly. His front legs 475 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,880 came for it was almost like he was hovering, so 476 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,680 it was like his front legs would come in between 477 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,519 and then he would it would play not like barely 478 00:29:18,839 --> 00:29:23,240 very lightly place his back legs and then almost throw 479 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,160 his front arm his front legs over again and then 480 00:29:26,279 --> 00:29:31,720 grab because the movement was I would see it speed 481 00:29:31,799 --> 00:29:34,720 up and then slow down, and speed up and slow down, 482 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,400 but it did so unbelievably fast. It was literally like 483 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,200 a fraction of a second that. 484 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: He paused and then. 485 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,319 Speaker 2: He'd like speed up again in a fraction of a 486 00:29:43,359 --> 00:29:45,039 second that he paused and speed up again. 487 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,759 Speaker 3: If I'm understanding you, it sounds like what you witnessed 488 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,640 was him pulling himself for it to propel himself, and 489 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,400 his back legs were almost like an afterthought kind of 490 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,799 just supporting his weight. Is that accurate? 491 00:30:01,519 --> 00:30:05,079 Speaker 2: Yes, That's how I would describe it. And my guess 492 00:30:05,079 --> 00:30:08,559 behind the reasoning for that was purely because of the 493 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,759 terrain that he was running in. My my guess would 494 00:30:11,759 --> 00:30:14,119 be that it was like he was grabbing onto the 495 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,880 roots or the stems of the reeds and pulling himself 496 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:22,039 forward because the water on that in that marshland is 497 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,440 unbelievably thick, and then it falls into like different layers 498 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,519 of mud, and it's as I said before, it is 499 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,200 extremely hard to move in. I've tried it once and 500 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,559 it is just you try to pull your foot up 501 00:30:35,599 --> 00:30:38,799 and you just get like it's a vacuum, seals your 502 00:30:38,799 --> 00:30:42,000 foot into the mud. So I personally think he was 503 00:30:42,039 --> 00:30:45,359 trying to put as little pressure on the on the 504 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,319 mud as possible, and it was trying to use the 505 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:48,559 surroundings to move. 506 00:30:49,559 --> 00:30:53,119 Speaker 3: The reason why I asked about that is quadripads, they 507 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,960 almost always use their back legs for propulsion in their 508 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,960 front legs catch their weight. Their front legs do prove 509 00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:03,440 I had some propulsion, but mostly the front legs are 510 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,359 just to catch their weight when they're in full run. 511 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,480 For him to do the opposite that is really strange. 512 00:31:10,519 --> 00:31:12,119 But then again, do all of me do a lot 513 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,160 of things that just fly in the face of what's normal. 514 00:31:15,559 --> 00:31:19,200 So that's just one of those things. But yeah, that's 515 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,680 why I was asking you about that. Marcus. Have you 516 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,519 ever heard about someone besides Kai and your other friends 517 00:31:25,599 --> 00:31:29,160 having an experience with something that just might have been 518 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:29,680 white man. 519 00:31:33,079 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: No, I haven't really heard anything specifically about white maing 520 00:31:39,119 --> 00:31:41,720 that me and my friends have, But I have heard 521 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:47,000 other people mentioned that they hear strange sounds outside the house, 522 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:52,680 that some people it sounded like someone was an animal, 523 00:31:52,759 --> 00:31:58,720 a quadruped animal specifically, was prowling around the house, But 524 00:31:58,799 --> 00:32:03,119 nothing that can tell me it was White Man. 525 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:09,319 Speaker 3: Well, I'm glad you're not jump into conclusions. That's good, Marcus. 526 00:32:09,359 --> 00:32:11,920 Is there any novelty to the fact that at any 527 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,480 time when you go out you might bump into him again? 528 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,720 Or would you be totally fine if he disappeared from 529 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,960 the face of the earth and never came back and 530 00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:24,759 that was never even a possibility. 531 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,759 Speaker 1: No, I'm quite excited about the fact that I could 532 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,559 see him again. Like I said, it wasn't a negative 533 00:32:33,599 --> 00:32:39,039 experience that I had. Sometimes I sort of hope when 534 00:32:39,079 --> 00:32:41,880 I'm walking around that night, specifically because I hope I 535 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:46,680 sometimes just maybe catch a glimpse of something, maybe just 536 00:32:46,759 --> 00:32:50,519 bump into him, well not physically, but just see him 537 00:32:50,519 --> 00:32:53,680 across the road walking back into the mountains and something. 538 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,839 I really do it would be a cool experience for 539 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,119 me to see. Obviously, I'd be a bit frozen and 540 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:05,319 she very cautious on my way home. But if he's gone. 541 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,880 I would be just a little bit bummed out about that. 542 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 3: Well, it's good to hear you say those things, because 543 00:33:11,559 --> 00:33:13,960 if you have that desire to see him again some time, 544 00:33:14,039 --> 00:33:16,599 then you can't be that bad off after having that 545 00:33:16,759 --> 00:33:20,000 encounter at the Lagoon River, and speaking of that place 546 00:33:20,039 --> 00:33:22,400 at the Lagoon River, how far is that from your home? 547 00:33:24,799 --> 00:33:31,279 Speaker 1: Shoot, I'd say maybe five kilometers I would if I guess, 548 00:33:32,319 --> 00:33:36,640 it's about maybe four kilometers on dirt roads and bar roads, 549 00:33:37,319 --> 00:33:40,799 and then another kilometer into the theness. 550 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 3: It's not that far. Then is there much at all 551 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,240 in the way of infrastructure between that place and your home, houses, 552 00:33:48,519 --> 00:33:52,079 other buildings, businesses or you talked about the dirt roads 553 00:33:52,079 --> 00:33:55,319 and everything. Is it nothing but bush? 554 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: No? So between the forest and my residence there is 555 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:05,559 roads and houses and some shops. It's quite I live 556 00:34:05,839 --> 00:34:07,599 in very central Pringle Bay. 557 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 3: Well, if you didn't want to have any visits late 558 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,079 at night, I guess that might help. But as I'm 559 00:34:14,079 --> 00:34:17,280 sure you know, these things do come into towns, so 560 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,119 it definitely doesn't preclude the chance. Kai when you were 561 00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:23,480 laying in bed that night and heard that tapping on 562 00:34:23,519 --> 00:34:26,840 your bedroom window, it doesn't seem like the tapping sounded 563 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,400 light claws on glass. Considering how you described it, did 564 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,960 it sound like it might have been knuckles instead. 565 00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 2: To be one hundred percent honest with you, Vic, I 566 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,480 haven't the slightest clue. I don't know if it was 567 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,079 knocking on my window. I don't know if it was tapping. 568 00:34:44,599 --> 00:34:47,480 All I know is that when I opened up my curtain, 569 00:34:47,559 --> 00:34:51,159 I saw the handout with the index finger extended and 570 00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:56,159 the thumb slightly out of the hand. Now again, whether 571 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,119 it had its left hand and had it backwards or 572 00:35:00,119 --> 00:35:03,920 it had its right hand facing forwards, I really don't know. 573 00:35:05,679 --> 00:35:09,760 Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm sure you're so frightened that you're doing 574 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,119 good to know your own name, so you can't be 575 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,960 faulted for not knowing exactly what it sounded like when 576 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,519 you heard that tapping. So I understand. 577 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:19,119 Speaker 1: Kai. 578 00:35:19,199 --> 00:35:21,559 Speaker 3: After your dad pulled his car around to point his 579 00:35:21,639 --> 00:35:25,639 headlights where white Men was when you first saw him, 580 00:35:26,039 --> 00:35:28,239 you told your dad that you had seen a dog man. 581 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,559 How did your dad know back then what a dog 582 00:35:31,639 --> 00:35:32,159 man was? 583 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,639 Speaker 2: To be honest with you, Vic, I'm pretty sure he 584 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,440 just made a guess of the two words together and 585 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:47,800 probably assumed that it was some sort of mix of 586 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,000 a creature mixed with a man and a dog. I 587 00:35:51,039 --> 00:35:55,360 don't think he had the full rundown or idea of 588 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,960 what it was. My dad's never really been into that 589 00:35:58,039 --> 00:36:03,440 kind of stuff. He's a very religious and so, I mean, 590 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,000 to be honest with you, he never asked me what 591 00:36:07,039 --> 00:36:09,239 a dog man was. I didn't tell him it was 592 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,800 a dog man. I just described to him what i'd seen, 593 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,719 purely because I was still in shock and I didn't 594 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,679 know what I didn't want to put a name on 595 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,159 it yet, so I just described to him what I saw, 596 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,719 this white creature with a tale that I thought was 597 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,239 unable walking at first, and then dropped down and it 598 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:31,039 had these pointy years with his black, sunken eyes. And 599 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,360 he pretty much just told me, like, don't talk about it, 600 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,039 purely for the sake of my younger sisters. 601 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,519 Speaker 3: I'm glad you brought that up. Let's talk more about that. 602 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,719 When you had that experience, Like you said, he told 603 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:45,679 you not to bring it up with your sister any 604 00:36:45,679 --> 00:36:50,199 other family members for that point down the road. Did 605 00:36:50,199 --> 00:36:52,760 you ever tell that sister who was with you that night, 606 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,960 what it was that you saw, what happened, or have 607 00:36:56,079 --> 00:36:58,079 you to this day kept that from her. 608 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,119 Speaker 1: So funny, and I never told her personally. 609 00:37:03,639 --> 00:37:05,639 Speaker 2: I mean, she asked me questions when I got inside, 610 00:37:05,679 --> 00:37:08,519 and I said, I don't know. That's literally the only 611 00:37:08,599 --> 00:37:10,599 response I had at the time. She was asking what 612 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,119 was what do you think it is? And I was 613 00:37:12,159 --> 00:37:15,039 just saying I don't know, I don't know. And then 614 00:37:15,599 --> 00:37:19,599 when you released the last episode last week, my family 615 00:37:19,639 --> 00:37:23,639 actually listened to it, and my elder sister who's turning 616 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,719 sixteen this year, the one who was with me for 617 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,440 that encounter, listened, and then the two youngest state, well, 618 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,239 they went to bed. So now she knows of my 619 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,360 encounter in detail. 620 00:37:36,679 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 3: Oh good, it's good that she knows. But if she 621 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,159 does know in detail about what happened to you and 622 00:37:42,159 --> 00:37:45,159 about white Man being out there, have you noticed any 623 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:46,639 changes in her behavior? 624 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: To be honest with you know? Vix So she. 625 00:37:53,039 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 2: Lives with her mom about hours outside of Pringle Bay 626 00:37:57,519 --> 00:37:59,960 towards Cape Soun, so we only get to see her 627 00:38:00,039 --> 00:38:03,400 every second weekend. But I mean I got home on 628 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:09,840 Saturday from Johannesburg and she was quite eager, and she 629 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,519 was asking, like, can we go for the night walk tonight? 630 00:38:12,679 --> 00:38:14,280 Can you ask that if we can go for a 631 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,679 night walk. So I don't think it's I don't think 632 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,639 it's I suppose you could say caused any hesitation on 633 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:26,800 her side. I do think and hope that she believes me, 634 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,960 but I don't think she lives in fear of it. 635 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,199 Speaker 3: Well, that's really good. That is good to hear, Marcus. 636 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,320 When you go on your walks, do you take any 637 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:38,079 weapons with you? 638 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:45,519 Speaker 1: No? Not really. When I plan to go out to 639 00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:48,239 the wilderness, I'll take maybe a pocket night with me, 640 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,480 But if I'm just walking around at night, or maybe 641 00:38:52,519 --> 00:38:56,599 walking through someone at night, it's usually just my phone 642 00:38:56,639 --> 00:39:02,000 in my pocket. Sometimes I'll carry a satchel that has 643 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,519 depending on where I'm going again, and maybe has some 644 00:39:06,599 --> 00:39:10,000 drawing supplies and some books. But that's about all that 645 00:39:10,039 --> 00:39:11,679 I carry with me on a regular. 646 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,840 Speaker 3: Well, that just reinforces the point that mentally you're in 647 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:17,840 a good place when it comes to your encounter with 648 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,920 him and the possibility of bumping into him again. That's 649 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,280 really good to hear. Are you as close to Dale 650 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:26,119 as kay is? 651 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,519 Speaker 1: Oh? Yes, yes, we're very good friends. 652 00:39:31,679 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 3: If that's a case. After he had his encounter, do 653 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,440 you know if he became interested in them. Maybe you're 654 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,199 not happy about the possibility of bumping into one, because 655 00:39:40,199 --> 00:39:43,000 it sounds like that encounter really shook him up. But 656 00:39:43,679 --> 00:39:46,119 do you know if he started researching them at a 657 00:39:46,199 --> 00:39:50,039 distance or did he seem to avoid the topic at 658 00:39:50,079 --> 00:39:50,880 all costs. 659 00:39:52,639 --> 00:39:56,159 Speaker 1: I know that since the beginning of our friendship, he's 660 00:39:56,199 --> 00:40:02,079 been pretty into the supernatural, but especially the creatures, the 661 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:07,639 cryptids like Bigfoot, even some of the aquatic creatures like 662 00:40:08,039 --> 00:40:11,599 NeSSI from the Loch ness he mentioned once, so he 663 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,840 since the beginning, he's been researching them in depth. And 664 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:20,679 I remember after Kai's encounter when me and Dale went 665 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:26,000 to Kai's house and me and him stopped outside just 666 00:40:26,039 --> 00:40:28,519 to quickly look around to see if we could spot anything, 667 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:34,239 and we saw some some of the grass was kicked up, 668 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,360 but we didn't bring it up to Kai because we 669 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,400 didn't know how he reacted to it and we didn't 670 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:44,440 want to make him paranoid. And after Dale's encounter with it, 671 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,320 I remember he was also not really shooken by it, 672 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:52,000 and me and him and Kai dove into the research together. 673 00:40:53,159 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 3: Oh, I mistook how he handled that encounter then, Yeah, 674 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,320 I got the impression that he had a lot of 675 00:40:58,360 --> 00:40:59,920 trouble coming to terms with it. 676 00:41:02,079 --> 00:41:06,360 Speaker 1: Yes, so early on he was very much shaken by it, 677 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:10,760 like Kai was, unlike I was. The first few days 678 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,559 he was he like I said, he was regularly telling 679 00:41:14,599 --> 00:41:18,239 me about cool creatures that he discovered online or that 680 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,599 he read about. And I remember after that encounter he 681 00:41:21,679 --> 00:41:25,000 was pretty shaken up. It was only after a few 682 00:41:25,039 --> 00:41:27,719 weeks that we got back into it again and he 683 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:33,079 seemed to gain some interest. So long term he's still well, 684 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,039 I'm not sure now. We haven't had contact with him recently, 685 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,280 but over the long term he was still in He 686 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,239 seemed to have a similar reaction to me and Ki. 687 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,760 Speaker 3: Oh good, yes, good news to hear that he is 688 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,639 dealing with this well now. It's totally understandable that he'd 689 00:41:48,679 --> 00:41:52,079 be taken aback at first by the experience, but he 690 00:41:52,119 --> 00:41:53,800 had to hear that he's come to terms with it. 691 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:57,719 That's great, that really is Ki. You told us why 692 00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,280 you and your friends gave Skinwalker Forrest that name. Had 693 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,360 you been to Skinwalker Forrest before you had your first encounter, 694 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,480 and if you had, did the place give you the 695 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:07,320 creeps back then? 696 00:42:10,559 --> 00:42:10,800 Speaker 1: Yeah? 697 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 2: Vic, the place always gave us creeps from the start. 698 00:42:14,599 --> 00:42:16,559 I mean, it started off one day we were just 699 00:42:16,639 --> 00:42:19,840 randomly walking and we saw the plots and we thought, okay, 700 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,800 let's go for a walk in there. And one of 701 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,440 the things that stood out for us was the off feeling. 702 00:42:27,199 --> 00:42:29,280 And I mean that was months before I had my 703 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,880 first encounter, and so as long as we've known the place, 704 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,559 it's always had a very very off feeling about. 705 00:42:36,559 --> 00:42:39,480 Speaker 3: Sounds like a really scary place. Sounds like a great 706 00:42:39,559 --> 00:42:43,280 name for it. When you took Angus and Marcus's little 707 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,719 brother Colub there with you, he joked about how Calb 708 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,559 was going to be the sacrifice. How old was he 709 00:42:49,639 --> 00:42:50,159 at the time. 710 00:42:52,079 --> 00:42:56,280 Speaker 2: This was last year and he was I think fifteen. 711 00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,320 Speaker 3: He was fifteen. Did you have any concerns about him 712 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,880 being able to hold his own being too young to 713 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,280 deal with an experience if you wind up having one, 714 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,760 or did that concern never cross your mind? 715 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,599 Speaker 2: Initially it was just going to be myself and Angus, 716 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,440 And then when we went to Marcus's house to ask 717 00:43:16,559 --> 00:43:21,599 him to join us, karlib bumped his head around the 718 00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:25,079 corner and said, I want to come with, And so 719 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,639 there was we didn't invite him. He more invites himself. 720 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,480 And then the whole sacrifice thing is more more of 721 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,840 a joke, because, to be honest with you, he's faster 722 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,719 than I am. So, in all honesty, if something had happened, 723 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,960 I probably would have been the first to have gone anywhere, 724 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,440 considering I was the slowest out of the three of us. 725 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,159 Speaker 3: Well, you might have been the slowest, but you would 726 00:43:48,159 --> 00:43:51,960 have tripped someone, wouldn't you, Vic? 727 00:43:52,039 --> 00:43:53,400 Speaker 1: I would like to say that I would. 728 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:58,480 Speaker 2: But with me, I have a very blank mind whenever 729 00:43:58,559 --> 00:44:03,800 it comes to a a flight situation. So if I'm 730 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,360 in a flight mode, I run and I don't think 731 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,239 about anything else. I don't think about any strategies. I 732 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:11,360 just go as fast as what I can, even if 733 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:12,239 it means running for me. 734 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:19,199 Speaker 3: No, that's understandable. I understand. When the three of you 735 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,800 heard that ground impact sound, have you considered the possibility 736 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:24,880 you that it might have been caused by something heavy 737 00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:26,280 jumping out of a tree? 738 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,920 Speaker 2: Vic, So, to be honest with you, there weren't any 739 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,480 trees big enough that this thing could have been in. 740 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,159 Speaker 1: I would say within thirty to. 741 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:45,800 Speaker 2: Forty meter circumference of where we heard the sound. To 742 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,400 be honest with you, I think it's either one of 743 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:52,760 two things. I think first either physically hit the ground 744 00:44:53,159 --> 00:44:58,000 or stomped, or I reckon it might have thrown a 745 00:44:58,079 --> 00:45:02,440 large stone, and and we only heard the first impact 746 00:45:02,559 --> 00:45:03,840 and we were gone. 747 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,360 Speaker 3: If you didn't have any trees big enough to climb, 748 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,199 that does change things. When I sat there and listened 749 00:45:10,199 --> 00:45:12,559 to you talk about hearing that impact, I thought, Okay, yeah, 750 00:45:12,559 --> 00:45:15,320 it must have been white Man jumping out of a tree. 751 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,119 But if you didn't have any trees like that around, 752 00:45:18,199 --> 00:45:21,960 that changes things. It really does. Have either of you 753 00:45:22,039 --> 00:45:24,480 two ever gone out for the sole purpose of trying 754 00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,159 to have another encounter with white. 755 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:32,400 Speaker 1: Man, Yes, absolutely, we've gone into Skinwalker Forest ever since 756 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,519 after those encounters. Most of the time we go into 757 00:45:35,559 --> 00:45:40,159 Skinwalker forests to try and find White Main. And we've 758 00:45:40,199 --> 00:45:45,039 had late nights bumbling around in the bush looking for 759 00:45:45,079 --> 00:45:51,679 any clues. We even consulted tracking books, and I remember 760 00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,840 I did research on how to find tracks, like identify 761 00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,719 smells and all those things. I remember we did. We explored, 762 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,280 We covered a lot of ground looking for any clue, 763 00:46:02,679 --> 00:46:07,559 but it's just it's pretty wild out there. So there's 764 00:46:07,599 --> 00:46:11,960 always leaves falling, this rain, there's mud, there's there's so 765 00:46:12,079 --> 00:46:17,039 many features that I just don't have the the expertise 766 00:46:17,159 --> 00:46:20,239 to discern what could be just natural and what could 767 00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:24,199 possibly be something that passed through the area. 768 00:46:25,119 --> 00:46:27,800 Speaker 3: Considering how you've laid out your encounters with white Man, 769 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,199 I wouldn't be surprised if you have another encounter down 770 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,480 the road. But for some reason, I'm of the mindset 771 00:46:33,519 --> 00:46:36,039 that if it happens, it's going to be on his terms, 772 00:46:36,039 --> 00:46:39,320 not yours. I could be wrong about that, but I'm 773 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:43,199 pretty sure that's how it's going to be. Well, gentlemen, 774 00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,199 I think we're about out of time, but before we 775 00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,480 get out of here, Ki, do you have any closing 776 00:46:47,559 --> 00:46:49,480 comments you want to put out there for us. 777 00:46:52,199 --> 00:46:54,199 Speaker 2: Yeah. I would just like to say thank you very much, 778 00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,079 Nick for this opportunity. As I said in the last episode, 779 00:46:57,079 --> 00:47:00,719 I've been listening to your podcast for years now, and 780 00:47:01,599 --> 00:47:03,679 I never thought I'd be able to come on you 781 00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,679 and tell my encounter and be able to answer all 782 00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,519 these questions. So I just want to say thank you 783 00:47:10,559 --> 00:47:14,480 for the opportunity, and to be honest with you, it 784 00:47:14,519 --> 00:47:18,719 has already started to help me with getting over my 785 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:23,679 fears at night. I mean, I've got my own room 786 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,440 upstairs here at night and had it had I'd not 787 00:47:26,559 --> 00:47:29,000 spoken to you about this encounter, I probably would have 788 00:47:29,559 --> 00:47:33,880 gone to sleep every night facing the window, defensive and 789 00:47:34,039 --> 00:47:37,159 probably ready for something to show up. But after talking 790 00:47:37,199 --> 00:47:39,960 to you, it's just it's almost helped get a load 791 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,280 off my shoulders, and it's actually helped a lot. 792 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,599 Speaker 3: Well, that's great to hear. That's what this whole show 793 00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,360 is about, and that's what I'm here for. So that's 794 00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,000 music to my ears. How about you, Marcus? Do you 795 00:47:52,079 --> 00:47:53,599 have any closing comments for us? 796 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,760 Speaker 1: Yeah? I also just want to say thank you. It's 797 00:47:58,159 --> 00:48:01,599 really nice knowing that we finally got our story out there. 798 00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,480 I think it's really cool that we get featured on 799 00:48:04,519 --> 00:48:08,800 your podcast. Kai has told me for a very since 800 00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:13,199 a while ago, told me about this guy's podcast is 801 00:48:13,199 --> 00:48:16,239 so cool and he deals with all these cool things, 802 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,039 and I was, yeah, I could see it was very 803 00:48:19,119 --> 00:48:22,119 enthusiastic about this, and I'm also I was also very 804 00:48:22,119 --> 00:48:23,159 excited to be on here. 805 00:48:24,079 --> 00:48:26,400 Speaker 3: Well, it's great having both of you on. So I'm 806 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,639 so glad that you decided to come on and do this. 807 00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:32,440 I really am. But having said that, I can't thank 808 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,719 you too enough for coming on to sure these experiences 809 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,639 with us and to answer these questions for us. I 810 00:48:38,679 --> 00:48:40,000 really do appreciate it. 811 00:48:41,039 --> 00:48:44,280 Speaker 1: Thank you again, Vic. Yeah, thanks, it was a big pleasure. 812 00:48:45,199 --> 00:48:48,599 Speaker 3: Well you're welcome. The pleasure is all mine. Well, thanks 813 00:48:48,599 --> 00:48:51,079 again so much for your time, and have a great night. 814 00:49:13,639 --> 00:49:24,360 Speaker 2: English