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Speaker 1: Ask not what your country can do for you, ask

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what you can do for your country.

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Speaker 2: Mister Gorbachev, tear down this wall.

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Speaker 1: It's the Ricochet Podcast with Charles C. W. Cook and

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Stephen Haywood. I'm James Lilyx, and today we talked to

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our old friend John, you about just everything. So let's

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have ourselves a podcast.

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Speaker 3: And I don't mind making this speech without a teleprompter

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because the teleprompter is not working. I feel very happy

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to be up here with you. Nevertheless, and that way

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you speak more from the heart. I can only say

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that whoever's operating this teleprompter is in big trouble.

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Speaker 1: Welcome everybody. It's the Ricochet Podcast, number seven hundred and

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fifty nine. I'm James Lylyx in Minneapolis, which is absolutely

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stunningly beautiful at the moment, just beginning to manifest itself

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in the tips of the leaves and in those places

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with the summer his eternal and nothing ever changes. California.

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Stephen Hayward, Florida, Charlie Cook and as I say, we've

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got the whole country covered. Greetings, gentlemen, how are you today?

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Speaker 4: Doing well?

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Speaker 2: Good?

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Speaker 1: I'm good here, good, good, well. I assume now that

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the escalator is moving and taking us up, and that

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we may enter the hall and speak. And our teleprompters, well,

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we don't have them, but if we did, do either

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of you think that you could expostulate for forty minutes

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or so. I tend to believe that the President could.

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I don't know how long his teleprompter was after in

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the UN address, I did read a good deal of it.

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I saw a tweet from somebody who had characterized it

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as a series of just, you know, sort of self

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aggrandizing little me, me, me, me, me, give me award,

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and I thought, well, that might be so, And then

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I went and looked at the actual speech. There is

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a lot of putting the stick to some of the

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countries for various things that the President does not agree with.

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But the end of it was a rather stirring call

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and defensive Western civilization. It was the scripted part, you

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can tell, but it was we have a beautiful thing

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that we have inherited here, and it is our responsibility, duty,

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and joy to maintain it. But but but, but but

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but immigration. That was one of the things of which

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the President spoke. And here's a quote. Not only is

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the U and not solving the problems it should. Too

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often it's actually creating new problems for us to solve.

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The best example is the number one political issue of

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our time, the crisis of uncontrolled migration. It's uncontrolled. Your

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countries are being ruined. The United Nations is funding an

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assault on Western countries and their borders. A lot in

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there to parts whether or not it's the number one issue,

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whether or not it's a crisis, whether or not it's uncontrolled,

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and whether or not the U and it's funding it.

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So I will let either one of you leap in

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and tell me what you think.

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Speaker 4: Well, you're in California, I feel, by definition get first

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DIBs on this.

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Speaker 5: Okay, I'm actually in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 2: To day for the day.

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Speaker 5: But you know, well, just quickly about the UN speech

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and then that point is my first thought. Excuse me.

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My first thought when I saw the elevator failed, the

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teleprofter failed is I'll bet Trump's staff did that deliberately

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so that he would just rough for an hour, right,

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because the conspiracy people said, oh, this is the win

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trying to monkey with Okay, the immigration thing, He's absolutely

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right that and even the Economist magazine recently, which is

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you know, that's the authoritarian centrist journal for you have

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the greater euro world. I suppose they said Europe is

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really blown out on migration. This really is out of

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control of the asylum policies are wrongheaded and need to

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be rethought. And what you see all over Europe is

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that the ruling party simply refuse to heed the rising

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public sentiment to say something needs to be done about this,

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and some like Britain, are doubling down and making it worse.

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There's a second aspect to this beyond just the recalcitrance

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of the ruling parties. It is you also, because of

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the European Union and the various international tribunals or human

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rights and all the rest of that tell individual nations

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will know you can't close your borders, you can't limit immigration.

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So you know, Italy is having to continue to accept

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asylum seekers even though the government would like to stop it.

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Under Maloney, I think I forget all the menacing threats

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to Hungary because Hungary ten years ago said no, no

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one's coming here. We're going to put a fence up

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on our border and we'll just tranship people to Germany

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or whatever they did. And I think there's still under

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sanctions and monetary penalties and all kinds of other menacing things.

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So you know, to the extent that the United States

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either follows or leads Europe, somebody's out of step here,

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and I'm pretty sure it's Europe.

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Speaker 1: That's for the economists to be centrist. It's centrist in

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the European sense, I think is what we should say.

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Speaker 4: Charles Well, I have a long winded take on this.

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If you'll indulge me.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go get some coffee.

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Speaker 4: The way in which dual citizenship worked changed dramatically after

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World War Two. It still is something of a mixed bag.

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But the Western countries that were on the right side

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of World War Two, and in fact on the wrong

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side because we conquered them and told them what to do,

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changed their attitude toward citizenship such that if you now

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become a citizen of the United States, the United States

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does not carry the way whether you retain your citizenship

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of birth. Some of those countries do care and will

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strip you of it, but America doesn't, Britain doesn't, France doesn't.

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And the reason for that is that there was a horror,

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an understandable horror of people becoming stateless because of what

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the Nazis had done, And this useful instinct has been

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extrapolated out into a completely insane system that pertains to

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immigration in general, in which any sort of enforcement or

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desire to retain the characteristics of the West are conflated

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with the horrors of the mid twentieth century. And I

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think we are now coming up against that in a

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really practical sense. The big problem the left has in

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the United States and across the world on immigration is

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that it has ceased to regard it as being a

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quotidian political question. How many people should we have, on

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what basis should they be admitted? What do we expect

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of them? And they have come to see it as

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a human rights question. We don't debate human rights per se.

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We don't debate the worth of individuals, but we have

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to debate immigration, and yet we can't. And what Trump said,

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although it was haphazard and trumpion was correct in this

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regard that there is a big difference between determining that

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people aren't worthwhile or hating them for their national characteristics

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or the color of their skin or a language they speak.

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And setting immigration policy as a country that works for

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the people who are already there, and the constitutions that

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you already have. And I think that this confusion in

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the mind of the people who have been the architects

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of our post war order is crashing down now finally,

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where the average person across the world is saying, no,

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it is not the same thing as what the Nazis

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did to say, we will make broad based determinations as

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to who we want in our country. That is not

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the same thing as we were trying to avoid with

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the establishment of the United Nations and various declarations of

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human rights in the European Union and so forth. And

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the problem is that the people have got there, but

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most governments have not.

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Speaker 1: They you're right, then, what walks in by hand, hand

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in hand and side by side with that sentiment is

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the idea that when people say, well, our national character

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is being changed or altered in ways in which we

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do not approve, they're being told that the national character

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is something of which they should be ashamed, and that

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it's archaic, and it's based in a variety of isms

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and sins. And therefore you're by defending the past by

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wanting the past to have continuity of the present in

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the future. You are defending ideas that now have fallen

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out of favor, and that makes you subject to approbrium

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in the public square. But what most people aren't buying it,

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and I think, as Stephen said earlier, is that this

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is a rising sentiment in Europe and we all know

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what happens when those things are not addressed and not

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even allowed to be spoken about. Well, that was one

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of the things that the President talked about at the

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U and the other was energy policy, which I really

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didn't expect. Again, it's like, these are settled issues. Why

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is he bringing this up talking about how the green

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energy is driving Europe off a cliff and leading to

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the industrialization and eye watering as they say, prices for

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these things, the fake energy catastrophe. Is he correct? Is

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he over emphasizing the importance of this, because I, you know,

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I think of the bullets that we dodged, the inscribed

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bullets that we dodged with a green new Deal not

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being fully implemented, and I am grateful that petroleum continues

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to be the wonderful Texas te ick or backbone that

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it is of the country. Is there any hope for

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Europe though in this respect, or are they just going

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to continue to play green while importing all kinds of

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dirty energy from elsewhere and claiming their hands are going

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to be clean.

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Speaker 5: Well, my perspective on it is that Trump was twisting

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a knife because I perceive for a while now that

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while Europe and to some extent our country still talks green,

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they've been trying to beat a retreat from some of

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their crazy energy targets and climate targets, and so, you know,

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you know, over the last three four years, Germany has

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had to ramp up coal fired electricity with some of

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the dirtiest coal in the world because they have a

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lot of the you know, the old I guess, lignite coal.

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And here in this country, here's my favorite thing. First

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of all, there was a long article in the New

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York Times last week by Benjamin Wallace Wells, and essentially

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it was the public declaration that the climate change crusade

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is over. I said, we're giving up on climate politics,

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and your Thomas Shotts, the very liberal senator from Hawaii,

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said Democrats should quit talking about climate and talk about

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inflation and affordability and things that people care about and

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my favorite marker is out here Irati about here my

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home state of California. A year ago, Gavin knew some

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of the Democrats were all or maybe your year and

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a half. They're all up in arms about our high

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gas prices are the fault of the oil refiners. So

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they set in motion an investigation for excess profits by

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the refiners, and of course found out it's nonsense. And

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then two of the largest refineries said Valeria. One other said,

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we think we're going to close our last two refineries

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in California, and credible predictions that could lead to eight

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dollars gallon gasoline. And so the latest thing is, first

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of all, the legislator just passed the bill that will

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allow an expansion of oil production in Kern County in California.

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I think in the last two years there have been

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two hundred wills a drill. The state is now authorizing

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two thousand new ones. And better, they're begging the refiners

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not to leave, and they're now talking about subsidizing oil

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refineries to stay open in California. So in eighteen months

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in crazy California, we've gone from let's punish the oil

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refiners because they're evil people to oh, can we give

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you subsidies to make sure you stay open? That tells

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me that in the real world this whole circus is

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pretty much over now, the climate cult, as I call it.

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They're going to keep yelling and screaming and blocking roads

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and throwing tomato soup on artworks and so forth, and

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lying down the road now and then, although even some

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of them are starting to draw back from that, especially

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as they're starting to get real jail sentences in several venues,

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including even in Europe. But I think in the real world,

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reality has finally caught up with this nonsense and is

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reversing in a real way, in real time, right in

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front of us.

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Speaker 1: I won't be happy in until California resembled the movies

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of the forties or the Two Jakes where you're driving

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around and you actually see a little oil rig and

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Soody's backyard pumping out a couple of gallons a day

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back in the days when California did it. Charles, before

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we go to our guest, anything on Europe and their

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energy situation is Stephen Wright, is the green fervor finally

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peaked in past?

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Speaker 4: Yes, it's funny Steve, you mentioned this because this was

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pointed out to me the other day as well, and

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I realized that I hadn't noticed it because the people

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who normally scream about it had stopped, and I don't

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think about it, so I wasn't looking for them to

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talk about it. And when I read my book ten

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years ago, I got lots of rude letters from the

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left saying, wow, you know, two hundred pages and you

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didn't even mention climate. And I wouldn't respond to them.

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But if anyone asked me in person, I would say

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that's because I don't think it's remotely important, and they

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would look at me like I had three heads. Well, now, yeah,

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it's interesting that people they've just stopped in America, especially,

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they've just stopped talking about it. You just don't hear

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about this anymore. It's not the everything is Everything tweets

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that you get from the left, and there are other

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things that have replaced it. The important part of it.

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I think it's just that it be eschatological. Whatever it is,

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that is the issue of the day. It has to

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be that if we don't do it, then the end

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of the world will come, so something else will fill

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that role. But it's been a fascinating couple of years

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where that dog hasn't barked, Well.

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Speaker 1: Something else already has and that's the imminent Hitlerism, the authoritarianism,

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the jack boot that has descended on the throat and

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the faces of all of us. And I get that,

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of course from my social feet as well. I read

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the other day one out of five people in America

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get their news from TikTok, which which to me was

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just stunning, and I instantly had a version of a

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purple haired Walter Cronkite with a septum ring, yelling in

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his car while he gesticulates like an electrocuted Italian. And yeah,

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I mean everybody gets their news now from these sources.

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And if that's the case, at this fire hose of

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panic and end of the world nonsense coming at you

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twenty four to seven, and yet we keep scrolling. Well,

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it's all more important to keep a place where you

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can be sane while you're stepping away from the insane

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news cycles that dominate our culture. Even in simpler times,

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when you think about a life gets hectic and finding

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comfort and yes I'm doing an ad and finding comfort

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and calm, it's essential we need time for relaxation, for

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recharging and soaking in a sense of peace with cozy earth.

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feels like a personal retreat where comfort and serenity come

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together naturally. And speaking of comfort and serenity and natural things,

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here's Charles to tell you exactly why he likes these sheets.

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Speaker 4: Because they're soft, because they're comfortable, because they're breathable. I

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was just in Phoenix, Arizona, and it was hot, but

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it was hot in a different way. It's dry. I

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like it a great deal. Florida is not. It's humid.

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I like that a great deal too, except sometimes at night,

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so out of my cozy sheets, sleep on them every night,

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spend an inordinate amount of time being comfortable in them, And.

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Speaker 1: I too appreciate their breatheability. They make my previous sheets

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look like they were asphyxiating me and being mummified in

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a short No, you will love them too unless they

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stand by their quality. Incidentally, the blankets come with a

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one hundred night sleep trial and a ten year warranty.

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them know you're about a cozy of Earth right here

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at the Ricochet Podcast. And we do think Cozy Earth

300
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for sponsoring this the Ricochet Podcast. And now we bring

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to the pie who we got? Oh, And now we

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bring to the podcast John. You needs no introduction. John

303
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knows law. John knows McDonald's, I knows the fluffya eagles,

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and he's here mostly to talk about McDonald's and a

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00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,399
little law. Hey John, how are you great?

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Speaker 2: James? How are you?

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00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,720
Speaker 1: Couldn't be better? Actually? I'm just firing on all cylinders technic,

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00:16:13,759 --> 00:16:14,000
but are.

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Speaker 2: We're going to do our special star Tek science fiction

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episode with Hell.

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Speaker 1: We do have to do that. We absolutely got to

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finish season three of Strange New Worlds first, which I

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understand is a tad disappointment, but I love it anyway,

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But yeah, we'll do that.

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Speaker 2: Final episode was weak.

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Speaker 1: I was, Yeah, they say they're going to do better

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for the fourth episode. I think a little bit too

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much on the comedy side, but I can deal with it.

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I still love the ship and the crew and the.

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Speaker 2: Rest of it.

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Speaker 1: But James Comy, he said, grinding all the gears to

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get to the topic. James Comy indicted by a grand

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jury which may of course also looked at a ham

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sand which we don't know, for alleged perjury and remarks

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me for the Sener Judiciary Committee in September thirty of

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twenty twenty. Now lying to Congress, misspeaking saying things, we

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get the feeling if you're watching up clips that people

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do it all the time, but there's never any a

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penalty for it. Is that the case? And what is

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your impression of the indictment of Comy at this moment?

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Speaker 2: So people should realize the crime is not lying in Congress,

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of which there would be many perpetrators lying to Congress,

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so I probably would have agreed with the Attorney General

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and the Deputy Attorney General and not brought these charges.

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Not because I don't think Comy lied to Congress or not,

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but because it would be too hard to prove. This

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is essentially a he said, she said case about one

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answer that Comy gave back almost five years ago to

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Congress when he was asked whether he had authorized or

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knew of the leaking of confidential law enforcement investigation material

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to the press. Comy's subordinate leaked the information to the

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press about the Hillary Clinton investigation, and he believed He

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testified under oath that he believed Komy wanted him to,

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but Komy said he didn't. So it's really she said

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case really about that. A lot of people are going

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to think, oh, no, Kobe's being indicted for all the

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other terrible things he did. I mean, if you go

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back and look at the record, Komy, right, if you remember,

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tried to entrap President Trump while he was the FBI director,

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tried to entrap President Trump into trying to block the

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investigation into the Russia hoax because Trump and he turned

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out to be right about this, knew the Russia hoax

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was actually a hoax. And so remember Komy got it,

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was talking to him about it, and then he was

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running back to his car and typing into his laptop

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secret memos, which he then had a friend leaked to

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the New York Times. Or they might think Komy's going

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to be investigated for all the shenanigans leading up to

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the twenty sixteen election, where he uh right, Remember he

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started an investigation into Clinton, then he closed it, then

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he reopened it, then he closed it, and then he

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announced in the without consulting with the Attorney General, that

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the matter was closed and that Hilly was cleared just

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a few days before the election. People are going to

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think he's being indicted for all that he's not. He's

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being indicted for this one statement he gave five years ago.

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And I'm not sure that the jury is going to

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convin I think it's enough. I think there's enough there

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to bring a charge. But I think the Attorney General

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of the Debuty turned Till Bondie must have thought, I

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think rightly so, that it's not clear whether jury would convict,

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and that it would be ultimately a waste of the

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prestige of the Justice Department to lose in court on this.

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Speaker 5: Okay, Well, John, First of all, three quick points for

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you to respond to. One is it's hardly an unprecedented

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to bring a perjury charge for congressional testimony. I give

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you the case of Algerhiss, right, I mean that's right.

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The statute limitations that expired on his espionage. So they

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got him for perjury and that took two trials. And okay.

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The second point is, and we've talked about this before,

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you and I, is in some respects resembles I won't

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say payback, but a parallel to the I think really

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outrageous charges brought against Scooter Libby twenty years ago for

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lying to the FBI when they knew that he was

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not the leaker. They knew it was Richard Armitage, but

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he was untouchable. Okay, we'll go through that whole history again.

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And so maybe there's payback of the second kind, which

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is you and I have said game theory would say,

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if you want Democrats to stop lawfair, make them suffer

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some of it themselves. And the final point in question

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is who is the happiest about this indictment and why

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is that person? Hillary Clinton?

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Speaker 2: Oh, you're gonna have to explain why it's Hillary Clinton.

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I would have thought it'd be Donald Trump, although I'm

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sure Hillary thinks that all of the back and forth

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that Comy engaged in on the Hillary investigation lost her

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the election.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, no, I think she said that. I think

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that's pretty much confirmed. And she blames Comy above everybody

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else for her losing. So that's why I say she's

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the happiest about her Oh yeah, right.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Now, the Democrats have a I think it was

403
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a hate love hate relationship with Comy because they hated

404
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for the Hillary Clinton thing, but then they loved him

405
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for trying to entrap Trump into obstruction of justice. Keep

406
00:21:05,519 --> 00:21:09,559
in mind that Muller, as I thought he would completely

407
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cleared Trump of any of these outrageous claims that there

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was some kind of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.

409
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The most investigation was these obstruction of justice charges that

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really were triggered by Komy. I mean, Comy really had

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set off the whole Muller investigation. That's all his fault.

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And I totally by the point. I've mentioned it too

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that the only way I think to stop the Democrats

414
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from not just conducting law for it fair, but escalating

415
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,599
it next time they're in power, is to deter them

416
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by giving them a taste of their own medicine. I

417
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don't think prosecuting Comy is much retaliation against the likes

418
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of Alvin Bragg or Letitia James for the cases they're

419
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the ones who should be investigated. Maybe, you know, Komy is,

420
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you know, not really part of that. He's not part

421
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of the Democrat he's not part of the by in

422
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,400
our Obama machines. I think, actually I think, and I

423
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,079
don't know what Charlie, So, I think he's actually kind

424
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,960
of in a way of more worrisome figure. He's like

425
00:22:09,079 --> 00:22:12,920
a boy scout who thinks he knows better than everybody

426
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,799
else and is willing to subordinate the Constitution, all our

427
00:22:16,839 --> 00:22:20,119
normal rules of procedure because he thinks he knows better

428
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,960
than the American people or even the way that the

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00:22:23,039 --> 00:22:26,279
Congress and the President have designed our law enforcement system.

430
00:22:26,599 --> 00:22:29,039
So you can see that throughout his career he just

431
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,359
acts out and does Oh, I think this is the

432
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,559
best thing to do for the country of the FBI.

433
00:22:33,599 --> 00:22:35,960
I don't care what the President says or what Congress says.

434
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,160
He's like the ultimate bureaucrat in a way, he's more

435
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:44,359
worrisome than these partisan infighters, right that we're talking about now, all.

436
00:22:44,319 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 5: Right, So John, I have one more thing for you,

437
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,640
and then I'll turn you over to Charles and back

438
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,559
to James. This is shift gears a little bit. I'm

439
00:22:50,599 --> 00:22:53,039
reading your piece in the Washington Posts from a few

440
00:22:53,079 --> 00:22:57,680
days ago about Trump's policy towards Venezuela, and I'm wondering,

441
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,160
when did you decide to start letting AI write your

442
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:00,839
columns for you?

443
00:23:03,559 --> 00:23:07,920
Speaker 2: Because AI smarter than me. That's why I acknowledge the

444
00:23:08,079 --> 00:23:11,079
root do better than me. I just said, please write

445
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,839
me a column under my name and my voice better

446
00:23:14,839 --> 00:23:15,400
than my track.

447
00:23:16,319 --> 00:23:18,599
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, I mean no, I mean well, first

448
00:23:18,599 --> 00:23:20,480
of all, I mean, listeners know that we're pals. But

449
00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:23,319
this is the worst article you've ever written. And come on,

450
00:23:23,799 --> 00:23:26,200
come on, well, oh, come on, all right, that's good.

451
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,119
I'm going to give you one sentence here and then

452
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,799
get to the serious part of it. But here's a sentence.

453
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,240
Americans have died in car wrecks at an annual rate

454
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of about forty thousand in recent years. The nation does

455
00:23:36,079 --> 00:23:38,799
not wage war on auto companies. I think that's what

456
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,839
magicians would call a category error. But the serious point

457
00:23:43,839 --> 00:23:47,279
of your article is we're we're not clear on what

458
00:23:47,319 --> 00:23:51,279
the dividing line is between criminal matter and war. In

459
00:23:51,279 --> 00:23:55,599
a matter of war, and now you know I'll concede

460
00:23:55,599 --> 00:23:57,480
to your You know more about the law that I do,

461
00:23:57,519 --> 00:23:58,880
and you know you've been in the middle of it

462
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,640
from your time of Justice Department back after nine to eleven.

463
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,519
On the other hand, it does seem to me that

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00:24:04,559 --> 00:24:07,759
a Venezuela is a hostile nation to the United States.

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00:24:08,519 --> 00:24:11,480
And if it doesn't arise to the sort of clear

466
00:24:11,559 --> 00:24:14,039
trip wires of being in a state of war, that's

467
00:24:14,079 --> 00:24:16,640
because they're clever and avoid going that.

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00:24:16,759 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 2: But look, I can go through.

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00:24:17,839 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 5: All the list, I won't now why Venezuela is actively

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00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,359
hostile to the United States and why I think And

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00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:24,720
by the.

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00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:30,519
Speaker 2: Way, Steve, like a typical Straussian, you did not read

473
00:24:30,519 --> 00:24:33,680
to the last paragraph of the text because you're searching

474
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,039
for hidden meetings throughout. You didn't make it. Remember the

475
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,039
last paragraph says we're at war with Venezuela. I mean,

476
00:24:40,079 --> 00:24:42,359
I argue that what the only way this is legal

477
00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:45,599
is if the drug cartels are arms of the Venezuelan

478
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,680
government are intertwined with Venezuela, and then this is all legitimate.

479
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,839
But then people should realize we are actually in open

480
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,039
war with Venezuela, and they should just know that.

481
00:24:54,519 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 5: Yeah. Well, by the way, John, if you're really going

482
00:24:56,799 --> 00:24:58,400
to throw the Straussian car at me, you will know

483
00:24:58,440 --> 00:24:59,920
that what's at the beginning and what's at the end

484
00:25:00,079 --> 00:25:02,079
doesn't count. You got to put it in the middle.

485
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,759
Speaker 2: I didn't see. Every time I talked to I learned

486
00:25:04,759 --> 00:25:08,720
something new about Eucrazian Straussians. I suspected you didn't read

487
00:25:08,759 --> 00:25:10,880
the beginning or the end, but I wasn't sure. Now

488
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:11,839
you know, I saw that.

489
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,279
Speaker 5: But it just seemed to me that, you know, your

490
00:25:13,319 --> 00:25:15,559
logic in the middle was very wishy washing and at

491
00:25:15,599 --> 00:25:17,839
the end you see. Yeah, but of course it seems

492
00:25:17,839 --> 00:25:21,079
to me that that's a quite compelling case can be

493
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,640
made for that. And so what I mean, you're usually

494
00:25:23,799 --> 00:25:26,799
very utilitarian. I always call you a grubby Benthamite right

495
00:25:26,839 --> 00:25:31,599
when I really utilitarian about this, And it seems to

496
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,279
me that even that you know pleasure and pain and

497
00:25:34,279 --> 00:25:36,000
all that, I mean, I don't know. It seems I'm

498
00:25:36,039 --> 00:25:39,480
the most surprised that you wouldn't be saying, and also

499
00:25:39,519 --> 00:25:42,000
your fondness for executive power in national events, that you

500
00:25:42,039 --> 00:25:43,880
wouldn't be more on Trump's sight on this. That's all

501
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:44,839
I'm surprised about.

502
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't.

503
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:46,559
Speaker 4: You know.

504
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 2: The simple line is, I don't think we can use

505
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,759
the military to wage war on something that's a social problem.

506
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,440
So drugs is a social problem. But a drug cartel

507
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,200
just dealing drugs, I don't think is an appropriate subject

508
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,799
for war. I think there's actually a utilitarian basis for this,

509
00:26:03,839 --> 00:26:08,599
because I think actually it would cause a widespread social

510
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,599
unrest and overuse of force by the government and deprivation

511
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,839
of our Can I say natural rights, Steve, you am

512
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,279
I allowed to say natural rights on this podcast? No

513
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,640
you aren't, okay, But then you cross the line into

514
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,039
war when you have to me the line is an

515
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,680
organized entity with the power nation state that's trying to

516
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,440
attack us because of our political or foreign policy or

517
00:26:33,519 --> 00:26:36,640
national security. I think drug cartels, drug dealers just out

518
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,079
to use to make money. They don't care what our

519
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,079
foreign policy is, our national security is. In fact, they

520
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:43,960
probably like it the country is more stable, it can

521
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,039
make more money out of us.

522
00:26:45,279 --> 00:26:47,799
Speaker 1: If a knockoff effect of these drug dealers is increased

523
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,079
violence in the cities, does that into your equation at all,

524
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,799
because then it's not a social problem, it's it's actual

525
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,160
kinetic activity.

526
00:26:55,799 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 2: But I think it's a I think crime, drugs, they're

527
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,240
these perennial social problems. We can't reduce them to zero.

528
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,960
The way you can. You have to use force against

529
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,079
an enemy that's trying to change our policies of harm

530
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,599
or national security. If China is really behind all this

531
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,240
fentanyl and they're really doing it on purpose to attack US,

532
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,720
I think that's something like an active war. But if

533
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,680
it's just like a drug cartel running drugs to satisfy

534
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,640
American demand for drugs, it's like it's just an illicit business.

535
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,279
I don't think that crosses the line into appropriate use

536
00:27:29,319 --> 00:27:32,680
of military force. I think that's I mean, I would

537
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,799
think everyone would agree that just the question is what

538
00:27:35,279 --> 00:27:37,039
these drug boats are? They on one side of the

539
00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:37,799
line or the other.

540
00:27:41,079 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 4: I have a question that is, in a sense the

541
00:27:43,839 --> 00:27:48,160
inverse of this on the COMI matter, I of course

542
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,559
load the man. And I'm extremely irritated reading this morning

543
00:27:51,599 --> 00:27:56,359
every newspaper that suggests that the Justice Department was perfect

544
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,359
and virtuous until yesterday and then introduced into our policys

545
00:28:00,759 --> 00:28:05,759
these pretextual prosecutions. Have they not been alive for the

546
00:28:05,799 --> 00:28:09,559
last ten years. But I think the case is extremely

547
00:28:09,559 --> 00:28:13,319
weak and will probably be dismissed pre trial. So unless

548
00:28:13,319 --> 00:28:16,279
you have a disagreement with that, John, I want to

549
00:28:16,319 --> 00:28:22,079
ask you about groups that are engaged in domestic terrorism

550
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,599
and where the lines are. So we've had in the

551
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:30,079
last few weeks a number of examples of left wing violence,

552
00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:34,640
or perhaps violence committed by people who have left wing

553
00:28:34,759 --> 00:28:39,200
views for political ends. The assassination of Charlie Kirk is one.

554
00:28:39,759 --> 00:28:44,440
Yesterday's attack on the ICE facility was another. And one

555
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,240
of the things that I've seen on the right is

556
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,559
we need to go after these people, and they point

557
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,039
to examples of our having done this in the sixties

558
00:28:51,079 --> 00:28:54,599
and seventies with groups within the United States that were

559
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:59,519
engaged in terrorism. And then I see other people say, no,

560
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,279
you can't do that. There are First Amendment problems. These

561
00:29:02,319 --> 00:29:05,079
people tend to be lone wolves, and so the networks

562
00:29:05,079 --> 00:29:09,160
are too broad. What can the federal government do if

563
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,720
there are groups or ideological wings that are engaged in

564
00:29:13,799 --> 00:29:15,480
sustained violence domestically.

565
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 2: So the only thing I disagree with your view on

566
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,559
Comy is I don't think it's going to get dismissed

567
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,720
pre trial because it's so easy for prosecutors to get

568
00:29:25,759 --> 00:29:28,319
to trial right, I don't. I don't. You know, judge

569
00:29:28,319 --> 00:29:30,440
will just say, oh, this is a he said, she said.

570
00:29:30,839 --> 00:29:33,599
It's just based on the facts, and that's up to

571
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,039
the jury. So I think fortunate, unfortunately, we're going to

572
00:29:37,039 --> 00:29:41,160
be treated to the circus of a trial where, you know,

573
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,799
it'll just be like the Trump trials, like Comy will

574
00:29:43,839 --> 00:29:46,839
come out after every day of proceedings make statements. I'm

575
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:51,039
envisioning Trump coming out too, standing outside of the courthouse

576
00:29:51,119 --> 00:29:53,680
making statements too, every time Comy comes out. I mean,

577
00:29:53,839 --> 00:29:56,319
it could be a complete circus. I'm sure the White

578
00:29:56,319 --> 00:29:59,720
House is considering this on the I think on the

579
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,759
actually the more important question about you know, where the

580
00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:05,640
line is between war and crime. I think the federal

581
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:10,400
government could do more in terms of domestic terrorism, but

582
00:30:10,519 --> 00:30:14,880
Congress hasn't authorized it, so there's no statute like the

583
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,039
one against foreign terrorists. You know, you can designate a

584
00:30:18,079 --> 00:30:22,400
foreign group a foreign terrorist organization, you can launch investigations,

585
00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:25,559
you can convict people of what the crime is called

586
00:30:25,559 --> 00:30:30,400
material support for foreign terrorism. Congress has chosen, I think,

587
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,119
Charlie because of your reason that the Congress was concerned

588
00:30:34,119 --> 00:30:37,960
about free speech issues, so they've never passed those kinds

589
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,559
of laws for domestic groups, so even you know the

590
00:30:41,599 --> 00:30:45,079
weather underground. The bombings we saw in the seventies and

591
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,240
even started in the late sixties, they were people were convicted,

592
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,200
but they were convicted for trying to kill federal officers,

593
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,240
trying to destroy federal property. And then they were convicted

594
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,519
that their time, and then we made them tenured professors

595
00:30:58,519 --> 00:31:00,440
at the University of Chicago at the end of their

596
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,519
which is kind of like a sentence, I suppose if

597
00:31:02,559 --> 00:31:07,000
you're in the education department, but there's no you know,

598
00:31:07,319 --> 00:31:09,960
because of the first and actually what you say this

599
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,480
is very interesting. Another point you made is in prosecution,

600
00:31:13,599 --> 00:31:16,440
there is a problem that always leads to most of

601
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,359
these cases getting pled out. It's called gray mail, because

602
00:31:19,359 --> 00:31:22,680
what happens is when you go after people like these people,

603
00:31:23,559 --> 00:31:26,839
they threaten to try to force a government to reveal

604
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,519
classified information like how did you know it was us?

605
00:31:29,839 --> 00:31:32,759
How did you surveil us? And they try to force

606
00:31:32,799 --> 00:31:35,759
a government to produce all this classified information about how

607
00:31:35,799 --> 00:31:39,359
they're surveilling these kinds of groups. And so usually the

608
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,960
government would rather plead out these cases and have to

609
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,559
go to trial. And so I bet even if we

610
00:31:44,599 --> 00:31:48,240
do have wide scale investigations of the kind that President

611
00:31:48,279 --> 00:31:51,440
Trump is proposing. I'm not confident there's going to be

612
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,960
a lot of convictions. There might be some investigations about,

613
00:31:56,119 --> 00:31:59,920
you know, are people really behind this funding these crazy people,

614
00:32:00,119 --> 00:32:02,440
these crazy groups, But so far I don't see anything

615
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,160
really there to support any kind of charges against anybody.

616
00:32:06,799 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 4: And my follow up question is where is the line then,

617
00:32:10,519 --> 00:32:15,920
between investigation and prosecution, Because although that law that you

618
00:32:16,319 --> 00:32:20,039
mentioned doesn't exist, Congress has never passed it. We have

619
00:32:20,319 --> 00:32:25,240
had organizations in the United States infiltrated by federal agents

620
00:32:25,279 --> 00:32:28,039
and they went after the Clan, and then in the seventies,

621
00:32:28,039 --> 00:32:31,359
eighties and nineties they went after white supremacist groups in

622
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,480
the hills of Idaho and that was what caused Ruby Ridge,

623
00:32:36,079 --> 00:32:38,960
and then they were pretty worried a few years later

624
00:32:39,079 --> 00:32:45,920
Awaco about the huge whatever you want to call it, organization, cult,

625
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:52,440
religion dissenters there, and they had people who were occupying

626
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,519
buildings close by and watching them. So do you have

627
00:32:55,599 --> 00:32:57,960
to have a law of the thought that you've described

628
00:32:58,039 --> 00:33:00,240
as not existing to be able to just and that

629
00:33:00,359 --> 00:33:03,240
investigators to look into domestic groups.

630
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. But you have to I

631
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,400
think you need something tighter to justify the investigation first,

632
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,440
So to investigate versus prosecute, the line is to investigate.

633
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:18,720
You just need reasonable grounds to think that someone's engaging

634
00:33:18,759 --> 00:33:22,240
in federal crimes, and so it depends what the federal

635
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,440
crimes are. We've actually seen cases of this in the

636
00:33:25,519 --> 00:33:28,079
United States because there have been investigations of groups that

637
00:33:28,119 --> 00:33:32,400
were thought to be supporting foreign terrorist groups. And actually

638
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,880
there's a case that went to the Supreme Court about this,

639
00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:39,359
and the Supreme Court said that even groups connected to

640
00:33:39,359 --> 00:33:42,519
foreign terrorists they're just using money for lawyers and using

641
00:33:42,559 --> 00:33:46,119
money for media relations, if they're also helping the foreign

642
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,799
terrorist group, they can be investigated. I don't think you

643
00:33:48,839 --> 00:33:51,319
could do that domestically. I think domestically you have to

644
00:33:51,359 --> 00:33:54,720
have we think that they're planning to attack federal building,

645
00:33:54,759 --> 00:33:57,240
we think they're in some of the cases you mentioned,

646
00:33:57,279 --> 00:34:01,359
the crime was depriving people of their constitutional rights. So

647
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,039
it's hard to explain. But I think you need a

648
00:34:04,079 --> 00:34:09,079
tighter link for domestic investigations because I think Congress was

649
00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:13,719
worried after what came out about Hoover and all the investigations,

650
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,280
because he also he did some of those investigations. He

651
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,559
also launched investigations into what seemed to be legitimate activity,

652
00:34:19,559 --> 00:34:23,400
like the civil rights movement. Congress never I think has

653
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,159
always been careful about and I think the courts have

654
00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:28,840
been careful too. They I mean. The problem and here's

655
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,119
the thing about what's going on with bring it back

656
00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:35,199
to Komy too, is even if Come's never convicted, right,

657
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,760
the investigation itself, in defending yourself could ruin him. And

658
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,480
maybe that's partially what Trump is after. Even if a

659
00:34:41,599 --> 00:34:44,679
jury is almost certain to acquit him or to be hung,

660
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:49,840
just making Comy go under this is the punishment. And

661
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:53,599
that might be a worry here with your group's questions, Charlie,

662
00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:56,239
is that if you have a First Amendment concern, even

663
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,760
being forced to defend yourself from these investigations can really

664
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,440
be harm chill speech. There's I don't think there's anything

665
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,239
that can be done about that until it gets to

666
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,559
the courts, when you present the charges and go to trial.

667
00:35:08,639 --> 00:35:10,679
Speaker 1: Part of the problem maybe is that some of these

668
00:35:10,679 --> 00:35:15,639
relationships seem both tentacular and amorphis and there's so much

669
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:20,559
plausible deniability. The Ties Foundation gives money to the Utah

670
00:35:20,599 --> 00:35:22,800
Committee for doing all the good things, and the Utah

671
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,199
Committee for Doing All the Good Things gives money to

672
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:31,239
Queer Rifles Salt Lake City, whose founder espouses the overthrow

673
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,119
of the United States government and free Palace and the

674
00:35:33,199 --> 00:35:35,320
rest of it. And then somebody who isn't connected to

675
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,760
the organization at all, but has been adjacent to it

676
00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:42,880
online or hearing its ideas from other people and other

677
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,239
friends it goes decide to go and shoot somebody. So

678
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,440
you can't draw a line from a guy who shoots

679
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,320
somebody to George Sorows. But there is this sort of

680
00:35:51,679 --> 00:35:54,719
money that spreads and flows throughout these organizations, and I

681
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:56,199
think that's what they're trying to look at.

682
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,760
Speaker 2: But again, you're right, exactly right, that's exactly right. That's

683
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,760
what we had to deal with when we were investigating

684
00:36:02,159 --> 00:36:05,800
the groups responsible for nine to eleven and foreign Paris groups.

685
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,199
They would and actually you know he did this first.

686
00:36:08,559 --> 00:36:12,119
The Irish, the Irish Republican Army would set up in

687
00:36:12,119 --> 00:36:15,000
the United States these fundraising groups, right, they have clubs

688
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,920
and they would raise money and the government, the US

689
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,280
government could not do exactly what you're saying, James, prove

690
00:36:22,039 --> 00:36:24,480
that there was a direct link to their fundraising and

691
00:36:24,519 --> 00:36:26,760
community building. And then of course they were in some

692
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,719
ways getting money over to Ireland for their resistance to

693
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,880
the United Kingdom. But you can't just say giving the one,

694
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,280
you know, the grandma who gives five dollars in the

695
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,519
tip jar at, you know, O'Shaughnessy's Bar in the North

696
00:36:41,599 --> 00:36:45,320
end of Boston is supporting terrorism. And so because of that,

697
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,239
the government gave a lot of leeway for First Amendment reasons.

698
00:36:49,559 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 1: If we truly were a repressive, authoritative regime, they would

699
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,320
need no pretext whatsoever to go after all of these organizations,

700
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,559
shut them down, confiscate their assets, and kick them in

701
00:36:57,559 --> 00:37:00,159
the huscau. But the people that are doing these things

702
00:37:00,199 --> 00:37:03,679
are convinced, of course, that were were precisely the sort

703
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,320
of authoritarian regime that must be deposed, even though none

704
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,239
of our act, even though our actions permit them to

705
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,440
flourish and do what they wish. It is the damnedest thing.

706
00:37:11,519 --> 00:37:15,039
I think Steven had something else on this, well, not really.

707
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 5: I mean I mean Antifa, and that's the specific organization

708
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,679
being designated as a terrorist support or whatever. They're not

709
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,840
really engaged in free speech. They don't really do that

710
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,559
much speaking at all. I mean they exist to violently

711
00:37:27,559 --> 00:37:30,360
disrupt things and damage things, and I mean they're really

712
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,440
nihilis and anarchists, right, So I don't think that line

713
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,320
is actually very hard to make out, and I think

714
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,840
that line's pretty bright. Now there may be a statutory

715
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,880
like you and I, as you say, but I don't

716
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,480
know if I went back. I got to think that

717
00:37:43,519 --> 00:37:46,159
the way we went after, as you say, the Weather Underground,

718
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,599
but decades ago the Communist Party, where by the way,

719
00:37:49,639 --> 00:37:52,079
we never did uncover all the different money flows and

720
00:37:52,079 --> 00:37:54,440
all the rest of that wasn' until the Soviet Union

721
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,639
collapsed and we got into the archives that we found

722
00:37:56,639 --> 00:37:58,880
out that there was lots of money coming in from

723
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,880
the KGB to America we never uncovered. So it seems

724
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,199
to me the case for vigorous action on these things

725
00:38:06,519 --> 00:38:11,920
like the Venezuelan drug runners is pretty compelling. I agree.

726
00:38:12,079 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 2: I think Antifa going after Antifa the group, although it'll

727
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,880
be very hard to because they're decentralized, right, they don't

728
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,639
really have a leadership in a conventional way. I don't

729
00:38:20,639 --> 00:38:23,280
think going after them is a problem because they commit

730
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,400
the violence, they organize the violent that you know, they've

731
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:31,400
organized the protests, they occupy the buildings. They target officers.

732
00:38:32,039 --> 00:38:33,679
But if you want to try to get at the

733
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,599
larger group of people who are just giving money, that's

734
00:38:36,639 --> 00:38:40,079
the harder. But you know, James's point is that, I

735
00:38:40,119 --> 00:38:42,400
think is that that's really the root of it. I mean,

736
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:43,960
if you could cut them off from the money and

737
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,360
the support, they couldn't do what they do. But I think, Charlie,

738
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,679
because the First Amendment reasons, you know, there's it's a

739
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,159
you know, we have free speech protections for money. Yeah,

740
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,159
give the donation of money. And that's the problem is

741
00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:00,039
you over prosecute. Then you're going to suppress legitimate.

742
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 4: Free speech protections for edition under brand Burgh right, Yeah.

743
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 5: Well well the only yeah, sorry, the only other thing

744
00:39:10,039 --> 00:39:11,920
they add, John, because it's in my contract that I

745
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,800
have to is if we're in our green room, h

746
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,039
when we were doing the Cozy Earth spot and Charles

747
00:39:17,079 --> 00:39:20,800
praised their breatheability. Their breatheability is of course the result

748
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:22,920
of lower small from the Clean Air Act. You must

749
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:23,320
know that.

750
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 2: Oh you mentioned the clean Era and you've now ruined

751
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:27,840
two podcasts.

752
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 5: I have to do that to you, John. You know it.

753
00:39:34,119 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 2: From mentioning the Clean Air Act and other podcasts, because

754
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,079
then it's just it just descends into boredom in about

755
00:39:40,119 --> 00:39:40,760
thirty seconds.

756
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: If not, well, it's proof that speech is violence. In

757
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,199
this case violence of course speech. I too would want

758
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,679
to detail the minutia and the particulars of particulates in

759
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,000
the air, but we're not going to do that. Instead,

760
00:39:53,119 --> 00:39:55,239
what we're going to note before we get onto the

761
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,239
next topic is John Is in Washington. I forget John.

762
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,039
I know that Charles is a football found you a

763
00:40:00,079 --> 00:40:00,679
football fan.

764
00:40:01,519 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I am an Eagles fan born and Brett, Well,

765
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,480
that's right. If you saw the greatest play of all

766
00:40:08,599 --> 00:40:13,519
time last game three seconds to go, this three and

767
00:40:13,599 --> 00:40:18,239
twenty five pound Eagles, the defensive lineman blocked a punt

768
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,920
and then ran in sixty yards for a touchdown, and people,

769
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,119
I mean the stadium went nuts. But one of the

770
00:40:24,159 --> 00:40:26,480
announcers SAIDs saying it was very funny. It's like, I'm

771
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,960
not surprised he blocked a field goal. I'm surprised he

772
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:30,360
could run sixty yards.

773
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean, but he died at the end

774
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,119
of that and they had to inter him in the

775
00:40:34,199 --> 00:40:36,280
end zone. Well, here's the thing about it. I mean,

776
00:40:36,679 --> 00:40:38,840
at that moment when that guy tip when he tipped

777
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:40,440
it and he caught it, and he looked at the

778
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,039
field ahead and he made the decision to run. And

779
00:40:43,079 --> 00:40:45,239
you and I make decisions every day. But on Prize

780
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:50,360
Picks prize excellent, being right can get you paid. Don't

781
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,559
miss any of the excitement this season on Prize Picks,

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where it's good to be right. Charles, you have a

783
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,599
little bit to say about football Ricochet's leagues and Prize Picks.

784
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 4: Well, I'm a huge football fan. When that happened to

785
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,039
the Eagles, I was at the Jaguars stadium as I

786
00:41:06,119 --> 00:41:09,039
usually am season ticket holder, that I am watching them

787
00:41:09,039 --> 00:41:11,440
win for once against the Houston Texans for once.

788
00:41:11,559 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 5: Yeah.

789
00:41:12,039 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, they've lost almost every game at home against the

790
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,559
Texans for ten years. They didn't lose this one, but

791
00:41:19,039 --> 00:41:21,840
I got to see them win, so that's great. And

792
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,880
I also do like betting on sports. I don't bet

793
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:26,880
a lot, I just bet a little bit. But I

794
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,559
like appsite prize picks because the more that you pay attention,

795
00:41:31,679 --> 00:41:34,639
the more you win. And I've noticed that when I

796
00:41:34,639 --> 00:41:36,920
first started getting into football, James, I didn't really know

797
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:38,880
anything about it and I didn't really know what was

798
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:40,639
going on. I didn't know who the players were, and

799
00:41:40,679 --> 00:41:41,880
I didn't know how it worked. And now I know

800
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:43,800
a bit more, and now I'm doing better, and so

801
00:41:44,519 --> 00:41:45,719
I'm a prize pick sort of guy.

802
00:41:46,159 --> 00:41:48,119
Speaker 1: Yes, Price Picks it's the best way to get action

803
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804
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808
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811
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to be right, and we thanks Price Picks. Responsing this

820
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,559
the Ricochet Podcast, Well, gentlemen, at the time we have left,

821
00:42:46,119 --> 00:42:47,760
do we want to keep this you guy around or

822
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,800
is he? Is he? Oh that's right, I'm sorry, No, Steven,

823
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:52,599
you were saying clean Air Act. Do go on?

824
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,079
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, that was a very good way

825
00:42:56,079 --> 00:42:59,360
to get me to sign off.

826
00:43:01,519 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 1: No things are any intended. Let's see. Well, uh, John

827
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:11,000
you there, John you there, didn't mean that. Ah, he's gone.

828
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,519
Oh he wait he left. Oh and with that, John

829
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:16,800
just swanned off, so we'll talk to him later. We

830
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:18,719
didn't get to the Mike rib which I don't believe

831
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:20,559
is all courant, but when it is, of course you

832
00:43:20,599 --> 00:43:23,519
know that he is the judge of it. Anything else, gentlemen,

833
00:43:23,639 --> 00:43:26,559
In the week that we have seen, there's an interesting

834
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,119
titlan All all of a sudden in the news. I

835
00:43:29,119 --> 00:43:31,559
imagine Thailand all doesn't want to be in the news

836
00:43:32,199 --> 00:43:35,320
much because the last time they were didn't go well.

837
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,840
And in this instance, we have all of these discussions

838
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,639
about Thailand and autism, and people have been surfacing John

839
00:43:41,679 --> 00:43:45,480
Hopkins and Harvard Studies and tweets from thailandol from six

840
00:43:45,599 --> 00:43:49,639
years ago, emphasizing or underscoring the point that the administration

841
00:43:49,679 --> 00:43:52,840
seems to be making about this. Now, I, as a

842
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:54,760
layman on these and under the ignorant of the matter,

843
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,679
I really find it hard to believe that what they

844
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,039
call an explosion in autism is to title and all

845
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,840
or vaccines. I think it just is simply due to

846
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,639
additional screening and wider definitions than the rest of it.

847
00:44:09,159 --> 00:44:11,760
That's what I feel it coming as somebody who knows

848
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,880
absolutely nothing, But I kind of think there's a possibility

849
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:16,079
I might be right, gentleman.

850
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 5: Well, well, I think that there's a parallel here. And

851
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,360
now I'm with you on this. I'm skeptical. Although I've

852
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,199
long been down on tile and all and some of

853
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,679
this research that suggests that there are risks we haven't

854
00:44:26,679 --> 00:44:28,880
fully judged. I think there's something to it. I think

855
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,320
RFK Junior likely takes it too far, as he does

856
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,320
with most things. But yeah, the diagnosis has changed, and

857
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,159
the parallel there that I do know a lot about

858
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,880
is asthma and comes back to my whole Clean Air

859
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,719
Act fascination. You know, asper case has exploded, and it

860
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,800
turned out that we change the diagnostic procedure for detecting it,

861
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:51,239
and asthma is still somewhat mysterious. It's partly an autoimmune disease,

862
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:55,599
and the clauses are still somewhat obscure and contested. But

863
00:44:55,639 --> 00:44:57,840
once we expanded the diagnosis of it, all of a

864
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,519
sudden we had more cases of it. And I think

865
00:44:59,519 --> 00:45:02,760
that's also happened with autism, and some people in the

866
00:45:03,679 --> 00:45:06,559
I guess there's an autism community have been complaining about

867
00:45:06,559 --> 00:45:09,519
this for a while, that they're the lumping everything into

868
00:45:09,679 --> 00:45:14,199
just the spectrum is right, it is not useful or

869
00:45:14,599 --> 00:45:16,159
you know, has all kinds of problems with it, which

870
00:45:16,199 --> 00:45:16,599
I think.

871
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 1: Is right right because it tells you that the spectrum

872
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:24,599
is infinitely stretchable in either direction out I mean, so,

873
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,039
Charles your take on this, I think Stephen has said

874
00:45:28,039 --> 00:45:29,960
at all. But of course you're always free to come

875
00:45:30,039 --> 00:45:30,760
up with something else.

876
00:45:31,199 --> 00:45:31,679
Speaker 5: I agree.

877
00:45:31,679 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 4: I'm skeptical as well. What I do think is that

878
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,920
if there is indeed any link here, the way that

879
00:45:39,119 --> 00:45:42,679
Trump and RFK Junior did this was not helpful. If

880
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:47,599
you find something that changes your conception of the consequences

881
00:45:47,599 --> 00:45:50,159
of taking a particular drug, the only drug in this

882
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,639
case that pregnant women can take to manage pain. You

883
00:45:53,679 --> 00:45:58,639
should not release the information in that manner. You should

884
00:45:58,639 --> 00:46:04,280
not send out conflicting statements as Trump did, and you

885
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,559
should not scare people who are now going to have

886
00:46:08,599 --> 00:46:13,199
to choose between this unproven link and managing the pain

887
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:16,639
that comes with pregnancy. So I am skeptical on the merits,

888
00:46:16,639 --> 00:46:18,599
but I think irrespective of that, I really think they

889
00:46:18,679 --> 00:46:19,400
got this one wrong.

890
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,079
Speaker 1: What's interesting, though, is that a week from now we

891
00:46:23,119 --> 00:46:25,639
will completely forget this because there will be something else

892
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,639
of the of that ILK large statements, germ of truth

893
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:35,000
overreaction on both. It's it's frustrating these days to be caught,

894
00:46:35,119 --> 00:46:39,039
as it seems, in this constant mailstrom of reaction. But

895
00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:41,480
on the other hand, I suppose people say that, well,

896
00:46:41,559 --> 00:46:45,119
it's a sign at the swamp is no longer having

897
00:46:45,159 --> 00:46:48,519
its you know, it's baleful effect on people that things

898
00:46:48,559 --> 00:46:52,159
are moving quicker than we would like. For example, we're

899
00:46:52,199 --> 00:46:55,079
going to be getting judges approved much more quicker. But

900
00:46:55,119 --> 00:46:57,920
there are there are there any knockoff effects of that

901
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,519
of changing rules in order to do that. Can't bite,

902
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,320
can't bite the right in the keyster in the future

903
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:04,760
cannon No.

904
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 5: I don't think so. I mean, I think you had

905
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:10,199
an asymmetry here where Republicans they would vote no on

906
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,280
Democratic appointees, but they didn't filibuster and block final floor

907
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,320
votes except in very rare cases. And here you had

908
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,960
Democrats in the Senate blocking any votes on judges and

909
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,239
a lot of other lower level candate appointees. And I

910
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:27,440
think rightly Senate Republicans finally said nuts to that, and

911
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:29,519
so I don't think it actually. In other words, there

912
00:47:29,519 --> 00:47:31,880
are other areas where you can say just wait till

913
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,440
Democrats are back in power, like abusing the FCC, but

914
00:47:34,559 --> 00:47:35,719
this is not one of them.

915
00:47:37,079 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 1: Oh, the FCC abuse, that is a that is a dandy.

916
00:47:39,559 --> 00:47:42,440
That really is Charles. I mean, we spoke about this

917
00:47:42,519 --> 00:47:45,480
last week, and now Jimmy Kimmel is back to two

918
00:47:45,519 --> 00:47:49,719
great accolades. The Savior of our time is descended. But

919
00:47:50,159 --> 00:47:52,360
do you think Kimmel is going to stick around or

920
00:47:52,639 --> 00:47:54,679
are they just going to wait for the Brujaha to

921
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:56,800
die down and then just usher them off the stage again.

922
00:47:57,599 --> 00:47:59,639
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know what's going on Disney, but I

923
00:47:59,679 --> 00:48:02,079
do know that they're not going to keep losing money

924
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,199
on Jimmy Kimmel to make a point. They may have

925
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,440
brought him back to make a point, but you don't

926
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:11,039
do it over multiple years, especially when the president has

927
00:48:11,039 --> 00:48:14,519
now been set in the Colbert case. I do think

928
00:48:14,599 --> 00:48:16,480
that it is extremely annoying. And I say this is

929
00:48:16,519 --> 00:48:19,760
someone who's very critical of Brandon Carr for what he did,

930
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,599
and who doesn't want the federal government to wield that

931
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:27,960
sort of power that the Democrats. How long did they

932
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,039
wait until they started talking about going after Sinclair and

933
00:48:31,159 --> 00:48:35,840
using the FCC themselves. Elizabeth Warren can't help herself, So

934
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,519
they don't believe in anything on this question. That doesn't

935
00:48:38,519 --> 00:48:41,360
mean we shouldn't, and I do, but they don't believe

936
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:45,880
in anything on this Jimmy Kimmel is not a hero,

937
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,800
and Jimmy Kimmel is not the story of Charlie Cook's murder.

938
00:48:50,199 --> 00:48:53,119
And it was thus not only a mistake legally for

939
00:48:53,199 --> 00:48:55,400
Brandan Carr to do what he did, but it was

940
00:48:55,440 --> 00:49:00,119
a political mistake because they managed to turn someone on

941
00:49:00,159 --> 00:49:02,119
the left who is not good and I did something

942
00:49:02,159 --> 00:49:08,000
wrong into a sympathetic figure. And when you have the

943
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:09,559
world's attention, you should avoid that.

944
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 2: Well.

945
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: I hate when people say I'm not going to listen

946
00:49:12,519 --> 00:49:14,880
to you complain about this, because you didn't complain about

947
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:16,920
this thing over here that I think you should complain about.

948
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,079
But I am going to do exactly that, because this

949
00:49:19,119 --> 00:49:21,639
week we got more confirmation exactly what the government was

950
00:49:21,679 --> 00:49:25,599
doing to strong arm pressure Google, Facebook, every Twitter and

951
00:49:25,599 --> 00:49:28,320
all the rest of them to take the COVID misinformation,

952
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:30,639
you know, like our good friend doctor Jay out of

953
00:49:30,639 --> 00:49:33,400
the picture. And that is something to be irritated about.

954
00:49:33,519 --> 00:49:35,480
It is something to be angry about, which you seemed

955
00:49:35,519 --> 00:49:38,840
to have accepted it and sort of kind of moved along.

956
00:49:39,079 --> 00:49:40,039
I'm not crazy about that.

957
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:45,039
Speaker 4: And that's fifty times worse. That story is fifty times worse,

958
00:49:45,079 --> 00:49:46,480
and it got no coverage.

959
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,599
Speaker 1: It absolutely and I wonder why that could be. Well,

960
00:49:51,599 --> 00:49:53,920
that's because the clock is reset every day. What was

961
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:55,960
done in the past doesn't matter unless it's a good

962
00:49:56,039 --> 00:49:58,079
argument for why we should not do in the things

963
00:49:58,079 --> 00:50:01,599
we did in the past. Before. Gentlemen, I think we've

964
00:50:01,599 --> 00:50:03,360
solved the world, or at least wrapped it up to

965
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,239
our own satisfaction here and all I can say now

966
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,920
is a variety of things, the nature of which you

967
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:12,639
can entirely predict. One I am going to thank Price Picks,

968
00:50:12,639 --> 00:50:14,559
and I am going to thank Cozy Earth for sponsoring

969
00:50:14,599 --> 00:50:16,880
this show. Two I'm going to tell you that if

970
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,920
you support them a your life gets better. I mean

971
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,719
we're talking breathe ability. And of course you don't help

972
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:26,000
the show as well. Three or c if you would like.

973
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,639
I wouldn't because I've been maintaining a numerical order here.

974
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:34,519
I think that you should join ricoget because there's something

975
00:50:34,679 --> 00:50:36,559
there you're just not going to find elsewhere. It's the

976
00:50:36,559 --> 00:50:39,400
member site. We're all kinds of conversations and friends form.

977
00:50:39,679 --> 00:50:42,280
It's a place where you have football leagues and movie

978
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:46,239
talk and politics and religion and everything in the world.

979
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:48,320
But it's not like those places like Facebook where people

980
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,320
just you know, scream at each other in froth. There's

981
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,960
a code of conduct. We stick to it religiously, and

982
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,320
that's what makes it special. Four. I'm going to ask

983
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,519
you to give us a D star review, no, I'm sorry,

984
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,039
an E star review, I'm sorry, five star review on

985
00:51:02,119 --> 00:51:05,880
Apple podcasts. And if you do that then you will win.

986
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,559
How much is it, Charlie, What is the pot up

987
00:51:08,559 --> 00:51:10,960
to now? I think it's up to three cents if

988
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:12,920
we actually find out that somebody did that and can

989
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,480
prove it, we're going to give them, you know, four

990
00:51:15,519 --> 00:51:17,280
cents or something like what is it? What is why?

991
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 4: Inflation's still with us, so it will over time change.

992
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,199
So if you're listening to this two years into the future,

993
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:24,360
then it's ten thousand dollars.

994
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,159
Speaker 1: Of course, I'm kidding. That would be payola. And I

995
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,239
don't want to go all all that on you. I

996
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:31,840
was going to name somebody who was caught up in

997
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,199
that scandal, but you know what, you know, times are different.

998
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:34,679
Speaker 5: Let them be.

999
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:36,760
Speaker 1: I want to say thank you, and I want to

1000
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:45,440
say that Ricochet is now up to what builds Charlie Goodness,

1001
00:51:45,599 --> 00:51:48,280
James Goodness. You knew I was going to ask.

1002
00:51:48,679 --> 00:51:50,559
Speaker 4: I did, and I thought about looking it up, and

1003
00:51:50,599 --> 00:51:52,199
then I thought, I'm just going to sit there and

1004
00:51:52,199 --> 00:51:54,280
say four point one point nine point tw twelve point

1005
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,400
three point one point and I just you know, people.

1006
00:51:57,679 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 5: Got to be that.

1007
00:51:58,559 --> 00:52:01,079
Speaker 4: People who listen to me do it are going to

1008
00:52:01,199 --> 00:52:03,239
be begging us to return to the topic of the

1009
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:03,920
Clean Air Act.

1010
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:04,639
Speaker 2: Right.

1011
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:08,119
Speaker 5: Well, we're approaching now not just an irrational number like pie,

1012
00:52:08,119 --> 00:52:10,960
but we're approaching the singularity, right.

1013
00:52:11,159 --> 00:52:12,760
Speaker 1: I said, I only to remind you that the code

1014
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,519
is constantly being improved, as is the site, as is

1015
00:52:15,639 --> 00:52:18,880
our contribution to the discourse of the Internet and the

1016
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,599
world is Stephen Charlie. It's been great fun as ever,

1017
00:52:21,639 --> 00:52:23,679
and everybody will see you in the comments at Ricochet

1018
00:52:23,679 --> 00:52:25,880
four point, you know. Goodbye.