WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:00.480 Right. 2 00:00:00.720 --> 00:00:03.439 So, so you're the only other guy who's done it, and 3 00:00:03.480 --> 00:00:06.799 you've done it with payments probably one of the hardest 4 00:00:06.839 --> 00:00:11.720 industries to disrupt on the web, cars and going to space. 5 00:00:11.759 --> 00:00:18.160 Right, yeah, so what do you do later this year? 6 00:00:18.199 --> 00:00:21.440 By the way, so oh yeah, but Juke hasn't as 7 00:00:21.440 --> 00:00:22.399 a co founder. 8 00:00:22.039 --> 00:00:22.679 For that one. No. 9 00:00:22.719 --> 00:00:25.239 Actually, they offered to have me be listed as a 10 00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:28.879 co founder, but I thought that although I suggested the 11 00:00:28.879 --> 00:00:32.600 initial idea, I did not put enough sort of sweat 12 00:00:32.600 --> 00:00:35.280 equity into it to be considered. 13 00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:36.560 So you should have been because you could have been 14 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:37.320 the first guy at four. 15 00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:37.799 Uh. 16 00:00:38.079 --> 00:00:42.399 Yeah, it's I think there's sort of a sudden threshold 17 00:00:42.439 --> 00:00:47.799 of idea contribution and you know, initial effort that's that's 18 00:00:48.079 --> 00:00:49.240 required for that. 19 00:00:49.240 --> 00:00:50.039 That's sort of. 20 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:52.439 You know, I mean, sort of subjective, but I think 21 00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:53.560 I don't think I did enough. 22 00:00:54.039 --> 00:00:55.799 Right. They did offer it to me, but I said, 23 00:00:56.280 --> 00:00:57.439 so it. 24 00:00:57.159 --> 00:00:59.600 Is part of the reason you've done this that you 25 00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:00.679 are so crazy? 26 00:01:01.799 --> 00:01:02.520 Are you lucky? 27 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:03.399 You know? 28 00:01:03.479 --> 00:01:09.760 I've been thinking about that lately, and I sort of wonder, 29 00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:15.239 you know, I think I probably am a but crazy, 30 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:17.959 but I think but maybe that's just that's sort of 31 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:20.640 a healthy sign because of the point which you conclude 32 00:01:20.680 --> 00:01:23.359 you're not crazy at all than you probably are. 33 00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:27.079 So the fact that you read sort of a recursive thing. 34 00:01:27.159 --> 00:01:32.359 Yeah, there's a story that I've heard about you, Yes, 35 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:36.480 about you. Here's the story that made me think you 36 00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:39.879 were crazy, and you can tell me New York Times. 37 00:01:40.079 --> 00:01:46.560 No Elan got me in so much trouble several years ago, 38 00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:49.400 and he called someone a douchebag and a liar, and 39 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:50.879 I started laughing and never. 40 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:52.920 To be precise, douchebag and an idiot. 41 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:56.120 Actually to the liar. We cut out the liar. Yeah, 42 00:01:56.719 --> 00:01:58.079 it would be liabelest. 43 00:01:57.680 --> 00:01:59.000 That we cut Okay. 44 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:02.040 Yeah, well I think that that made well I guess 45 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:05.079 that's probably true too, but but I think it's more 46 00:02:05.159 --> 00:02:05.760 more of the first two. 47 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:07.280 Yeah. 48 00:02:07.079 --> 00:02:09.560 Yeah, So no, this is the story that made me 49 00:02:09.560 --> 00:02:10.719 think you were crazy. 50 00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:12.319 I heard right after you sold. 51 00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:16.240 PayPal, before the other two companies, you went and bought 52 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:21.199 a mclareness one because one yes, sorry, that's that's the 53 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:24.360 same part, right, partially because you were going to race 54 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:26.080 cars with Jim Clark and Larry Ellison. 55 00:02:26.759 --> 00:02:29.159 No, well not really, no actually, and I never did, 56 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:31.240 although that was one of the things that was sort 57 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:32.800 of talked about at one point, but I never did. 58 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:36.319 In fact, I've never raced anyone with McLaren. I had 59 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:38.240 several years. I put eleven thousand miles on it, and 60 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:39.879 I drove it from Eli to San Francisco. It was 61 00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:41.919 my daily driver, which is a crazy car to have 62 00:02:41.960 --> 00:02:43.639 his daily drive, particularly on four or five. 63 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:48.280 But I understand when you got it. Yeah, you're driving 64 00:02:48.280 --> 00:02:50.800 down to Ady and you wrecked it. 65 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:54.960 No, well, and you let me just tell the story, correct, 66 00:02:55.840 --> 00:02:57.759 I mean, yeah, let's see the story that you tell 67 00:02:57.879 --> 00:02:59.639 is actually how does that how that compares to the 68 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:02.039 real because the reality is pretty messed up. 69 00:03:04.039 --> 00:03:04.280 Better. 70 00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:06.840 So you wreck the car, you get out of the car, 71 00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:11.199 you're doubling over with laughter, listen with you said, why 72 00:03:11.199 --> 00:03:13.400 are you laughing that you just wrecked this car? 73 00:03:13.479 --> 00:03:15.240 And you said, no, you don't know the funny part 74 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:16.120 it wasn't insured. 75 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:27.479 Well, the punchline's correct. Yeah, So I was. 76 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:31.719 Actually I was driving up sand Hill Road with with 77 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:34.879 Peter teele Co found a PayPal actually driving to see 78 00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:39.759 Mike Moritz. This is in in two thousand and so 79 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:41.840 we're driving up. I didn't really know how to drive 80 00:03:41.879 --> 00:03:45.560 the McLaren, and Peter says so so what can this do? 81 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:50.719 And they're like, I'm probably number one on the list 82 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:57.520 of famous last words. I said, watch this, so so 83 00:03:57.560 --> 00:03:59.639 I floored it. I floored it and did a lane 84 00:03:59.719 --> 00:04:04.719 change on Sandhill. And so the mccarion has no attraction 85 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:07.479 control or anything. It was just its massive power to 86 00:04:07.800 --> 00:04:10.560 the wheels six and forty break course power and it 87 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:14.039 only weighs a ton, so it has a massive power 88 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:15.560 to where it can break the wheels free at eighty 89 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:18.600 miles an hour. So it broke the rear end free 90 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:24.319 and started spinning and I sort of, let's see, I 91 00:04:24.319 --> 00:04:26.560 think it was sort of. I was going straight and 92 00:04:26.600 --> 00:04:32.360 then turned and I remember seeing the cars coming towards 93 00:04:32.360 --> 00:04:34.920 me while I was going backwards. And then we hit 94 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:37.560 the hit an embankment, sort of a forty five degree 95 00:04:37.560 --> 00:04:40.360 embankment on sand Hill, which tossed the car into the 96 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:43.560 air like a discuss, and it kept rotating with about 97 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:48.279 three foot of air air clearance according to witnesses, and 98 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:52.079 then slammed down on the ground going the original direction, 99 00:04:53.879 --> 00:04:57.680 and we blew the suspension out and now it didn't 100 00:04:57.680 --> 00:04:59.959 actually erect the card. The core chassis and the engine 101 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:03.839 were okay, but but all the glass and the wheels 102 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:07.040 and everything was was shredded, and and there was massive 103 00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:13.079 body damage in the front and rear and yeah, did 104 00:05:13.079 --> 00:05:13.839 you start laughing? 105 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:19.319 I don't recool laughing. I mean, I. 106 00:05:21.399 --> 00:05:24.920 Could have been laughing in shock, but I don't recool laughing. 107 00:05:26.199 --> 00:05:29.319 And and then and then Peter quote A hitched a 108 00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:30.720 ride to to Mike. 109 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:34.160 I waited while the fire truck and the ambulance ride. 110 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:37.879 Then finally the did Peter Teal literally hitched a ride to. 111 00:05:37.639 --> 00:05:40.759 To like yeah too, so quiet to yeah. 112 00:05:40.759 --> 00:05:43.240 And then and then I once, once the car was 113 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:46.639 taken care of, then I hitched a ride too, And 114 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:50.759 so we continued the meeting that I'm picturing. 115 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:53.759 You and Peter Teal like that scene and Tommy Boy, and. 116 00:05:53.759 --> 00:05:59.480 You're both like oh, like yeah really wow, Yeah? Is 117 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:01.319 there a pair of give you a live really? 118 00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:03.120 I should say so? 119 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:06.160 Is there a parallel with how you build companies in 120 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:06.759 that story? 121 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:07.319 I hope not. 122 00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:11.120 Let's see what you can do. 123 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:16.480 Yeah, watch this. That could be awkward with a rocket launch, 124 00:06:21.279 --> 00:06:23.160 you know. Yeah, it's it's one thing. If you've got 125 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:27.560 a one ton car versus a million pounds of TNT equivalent, 126 00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:28.360 that is a. 127 00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:29.040 Little dice here. 128 00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:31.480 Yeah, Now what I think is so, I mean, one 129 00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:33.560 of the things I find so interesting about you. The 130 00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:36.079 rest of the PayPal guys, they get done with PayPal, 131 00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:39.360 they start starting and investing in web two point zero 132 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:42.040 companies at a point in time whatever and said, that's insane, 133 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:45.040 that's insane. The Internet will never come back. They were 134 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:48.920 considered the crazy ones. Meanwhile, you moved to La and 135 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:52.959 start working on Solar City SpaceX. Tesla's a glint in 136 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:54.480 your eye? 137 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:56.160 Why didn't you? 138 00:06:56.199 --> 00:06:58.480 What you ever do an internet company again? Do you 139 00:06:58.519 --> 00:06:59.600 find the Internet boring? 140 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:02.800 I think it's unlikely that I'll do an internet company again, 141 00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:05.480 because not that I find the Internet boring. 142 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:06.480 I mean, I'm still sort of. 143 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:10.040 I think I'm relatively sort of net savvy and interested 144 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:14.319 in the Internet and what's going on. You know, I 145 00:07:14.600 --> 00:07:16.839 don't even want to be the like like Grandpa who 146 00:07:16.839 --> 00:07:18.279 doesn't do email or something like that. 147 00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:23.160 You know, so I think. 148 00:07:25.079 --> 00:07:28.720 But but I think I'm trying to allocate my efforts 149 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:31.319 to that which I think would most affect the future 150 00:07:31.319 --> 00:07:35.879 of humanity in a positive way. And the I think 151 00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:40.600 there's there's lots of entrepreneur energy and fin and and 152 00:07:40.759 --> 00:07:45.680 and financing headed towards the Internet, whereas in certain sectors 153 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:50.800 like automotive and solar and space, you don't see new entrants. 154 00:07:50.839 --> 00:07:52.360 You don't there's not there's not a lot. 155 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:55.399 Of capital going to startups and not a lot of 156 00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:59.160 entrepreneurs going to that in those arenas and the and 157 00:07:59.480 --> 00:08:02.160 and the problem is that in the absence of some 158 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:06.480 new entrants into an industry, you don't you don't have 159 00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:09.639 that in that forced for innovation. It's really new entrants 160 00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:14.600 that that drive innovation more than anything. So that that's 161 00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:18.360 why I have deveoted my efforts to those those industries. 162 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:22.680 And there are industries that require, I said, your cap 163 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:26.199 quite a bit of capital to get going. And even 164 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:29.600 with SpaceX, I mean I invest, I mean my proceeds 165 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:32.120 from PayPal aftertext about one hundred and eight million dollars 166 00:08:32.600 --> 00:08:35.240 one hundred that went into into SpaceX, seventy into Tesla 167 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:38.440 and tenant sol City, and I literally had to borrow 168 00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:38.960 money for rent. 169 00:08:40.039 --> 00:08:46.240 So that was a close call. That was not the plan. 170 00:08:47.759 --> 00:08:49.799 What one is the plan? You thought, I'll put ten 171 00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:51.000 in each of these are. 172 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:54.759 Well, Actually I thought the SpaceX, I thought it would 173 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:57.720 be about well, I guess I was probably about double 174 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:01.559 it could cost. It ended up being double in most cases. 175 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:05.159 So with SpaceX, I thought it'd be fifty. With Tesla, 176 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:07.519 I thought it'd be I thought it'd be putting in 177 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:12.320 twenty five maybe thirty. With solar City, for well, solicity 178 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:15.440 actually went really well. And that's that's the one where 179 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:17.320 I wasn't the co founder. So mean, that's a good sign. 180 00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:20.279 I mean I should I should co found less stuff. 181 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:24.960 So that's so what happened? 182 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:26.279 Why did you have to put more money in the 183 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:29.759 other two or did investors flake did you have Well? 184 00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:34.639 I didn't actually seek investor funding for the first three 185 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:38.600 rounds of space X, because I mean the first thing 186 00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:41.240 that investors want to ask you is sort of, well, 187 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:44.399 what's tell us about prior successes in this field? 188 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:49.360 And you know, what can we compare this to uh 189 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:51.559 and and this? 190 00:09:51.759 --> 00:09:53.600 You know, when when you've got kind of the doughnut 191 00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:55.759 in the success category and a lot of you know, 192 00:09:56.120 --> 00:09:58.759 a cemetery full of failures, than that they're not that 193 00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:01.279 keen and rockets are just pretty far out of the 194 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:01.919 capital zone. 195 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:03.240 Of most metro capitalists. 196 00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:09.360 And now we were able to get a menure funding 197 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:11.600 after we've made some progress and demonstrated that we were 198 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:12.039 able to. 199 00:10:13.799 --> 00:10:14.799 Almost get to orbit. 200 00:10:16.360 --> 00:10:20.320 And the credit goes to sort of to founder's fund 201 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:23.320 and which is obviously some of my compatriots from from PayPal, 202 00:10:23.799 --> 00:10:27.960 Peter and Peter Thiel and Luke no Sick and Ken 203 00:10:27.960 --> 00:10:28.679 Howry and. 204 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:29.120 And the other guys. 205 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:33.120 So and they invested before we got to orbit, so 206 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:35.200 so credit to them for that. But but I did 207 00:10:35.240 --> 00:10:37.399 have to show that I could actually make stuff, like 208 00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:41.600 I never actually made physical stuff before, you know, before SpaceX, 209 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:44.919 so let alone rockets. So you started with the rocket, Yeah, 210 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:48.000 I mean it's that's a that's a hard one, and 211 00:10:49.080 --> 00:10:52.080 it's that the probability of success was low. In fact, 212 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:55.000 when I started SpaceX, I thought that the most likely 213 00:10:55.039 --> 00:11:00.600 outcome was failure. But and and I think to have 214 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:02.559 any other expectation would have been irrational. 215 00:11:02.919 --> 00:11:04.679 So why did you want to do it? 216 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:07.080 I know, for Tesla it seems more obvious, like, oh, 217 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:10.480 save the planet. Big automakers aren't doing this. I mean, 218 00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:12.519 I think it's fairly abo, so that's good for humanity. 219 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:14.320 Why did you feel like SpaceX needed. 220 00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:14.720 To be done? 221 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:20.240 Well? I guess. 222 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:27.879 If you look at the trajectory of space technology and progress, 223 00:11:29.240 --> 00:11:33.960 the pinnacle of that progress was around maybe nineteen sixty 224 00:11:34.039 --> 00:11:38.679 nine nineteen seventy with the Moon missions, and so we 225 00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:42.639 made incredible progress in the sixties and then we were 226 00:11:42.639 --> 00:11:44.919 able to clown the Moon, and then with the Space Shuttle, 227 00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:46.519 it can only get people to Low with all. But 228 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:50.080 now the Space Shuttle is retired, and that's just a 229 00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:52.759 there's no trajectory of improvement. 230 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:54.559 It's a trajectory to nothing. 231 00:11:57.080 --> 00:11:59.679 And I kept thinking that there'd be some plan to 232 00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:02.559 say people to Mars, because that's the obvious next step. 233 00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:08.240 And the actual origin of SpaceX is when I was 234 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:12.679 I think it's around two thousand one or so, and 235 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:14.879 I was visiting a friend of mine, Adare Oressi, who 236 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:18.519 actually you may have met, but he lives in Palo Alta. 237 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:18.720 Now. 238 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:22.879 We were college housemates, and he asked me what I 239 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:24.720 was going to have PayPal, and I said, well, I've 240 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:27.000 always been interested in space, but I didn't think there 241 00:12:27.080 --> 00:12:28.960 was anything I could do in space as an individual. 242 00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:32.559 So my initial plan in space was actually to send 243 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:38.320 to do a small mission to Mars with a greenhouse 244 00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:41.679 essentially seasoned dehydrate and nutrient jail and a little greenhouse 245 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:44.159 that would land and you'd hydrate the jail, and then 246 00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:46.080 you grow the plants and you have this great shot 247 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:49.200 of green plants in the red background, and that would 248 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:55.840 be the money shot, essentially. And the people tend to 249 00:12:55.879 --> 00:12:58.159 respond to precedents and superlatives, and this would be the 250 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:00.879 furthest that LIFs ever traveled the first life on Mars 251 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:03.480 as far as we know, and and that that would 252 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:05.639 give you excited and I thought, well, that would result 253 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:07.960 in an increased NASA budget and then we could send 254 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:10.559 people to Mars, because that's you know, I think you 255 00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:12.679 want to have a future where you're expecting things to 256 00:13:12.679 --> 00:13:14.879 be better, not one where you're expecting things to be worse. 257 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:17.679 So that was how things started out. 258 00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:19.600 And then as I learned more and I went to 259 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:22.960 speaking of crazy things, went to Russia three times to 260 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:27.159 negotiate a deal to buy a couple of the largest 261 00:13:27.320 --> 00:13:28.440 ICBMs in the Russian fleet. 262 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:32.159 A strange experience. 263 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:35.639 How do you even get into that negotiation? 264 00:13:36.919 --> 00:13:40.360 Well, you talk to people who know people, and I'm 265 00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:45.200 pretty soon you're talking to the Russian rocket forces, and you. 266 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:45.679 Know they. 267 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:52.919 It turns out Russia is quite quite a capitalist society, 268 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:57.679 and so it definitely has had some some weird meetings 269 00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:01.159 in places like that. I swear they looked like a 270 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:02.639 sanitarium or something. 271 00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:04.399 I don't know. It was very odd. 272 00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:06.080 We keep going back to the theme of crazy. 273 00:14:06.600 --> 00:14:13.240 Yeah, seriously, this place had padded walls, like winding up 274 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:14.200 added walls. 275 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:17.120 It was weird. 276 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:22.200 And yeah, and then I had some some sort of 277 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:24.799 Russian guy who was missing up front two started yelling 278 00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:27.639 at me because his friend, when of his front teep 279 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:29.440 the was saying it was like spip flying at me 280 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:33.039 in the place and patted walls like it's really bizarre. 281 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:36.559 And that was what we thought. I'm gonna build my 282 00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:37.120 own rocket. 283 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:37.559 Yeah. 284 00:14:38.919 --> 00:14:41.759 That was probably when I got back from that third trip, 285 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:43.879 I was like, well, I realized that that the real issue, 286 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:46.399 the reason we haven't advanced in space is because the 287 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:52.120 cost of space transportations has become unaffordable. It's it's become 288 00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:54.279 more and more expensive to do to do less and 289 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:57.240 less in space, and we really need to improve the 290 00:14:57.240 --> 00:15:01.200 technology of space transportation. So that's why I sought at SpaceX. 291 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:06.080 But it may seem odd that I saw SpaceX with 292 00:15:06.159 --> 00:15:08.919 an expectation of failure, but bear in mind that my 293 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:13.080 initial thing was to do essentially a philanthropic mission with 294 00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:16.039 a zero percent chance of success from a financial standpoint, 295 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:19.440 so it would have effectively been a donation to the cause. 296 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:23.440 And so anything better than that is when right right? 297 00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:25.840 So you know, I know people think of you as 298 00:15:25.879 --> 00:15:28.519 someone who's had a lot of success, but you had 299 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:32.840 several failures within SpaceX before the recent launch. 300 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:35.720 Can you tell us a little bit about what. 301 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:38.759 It's like to put that much work into something and 302 00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:41.919 be doing something that really no one else is doing 303 00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:44.720 and at least trying something and putting that much of 304 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:46.519 your own money in it that you're having to borrow 305 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:50.039 money from friends to pay your rent and there are 306 00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:51.200 launches and it's failing. 307 00:15:51.919 --> 00:15:57.320 Yeah, well it super sucks, I'll tell you. Yeah. 308 00:15:57.320 --> 00:16:00.840 That was two thousand and eight particular was was was 309 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:03.840 was awful because we had the third launch failure in 310 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:06.960 a row of of our Falcon one with vehicle at SpaceX, 311 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:13.799 and we uh, the Tesla financing round that we were 312 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:18.360 raising fell apart because the economy is going through tailspin 313 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:21.799 and it's pretty hard to raise money for a startup 314 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:24.559 car company. Uh, you know, late two thousand and eight, 315 00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:29.639 win Gym and christ a busy going bankrupt, that that was. 316 00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:31.679 That was tough, and then Solar City had to deal 317 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:34.200 with Morgan Stanley, and Morgan Stanley had to reneg on 318 00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:36.759 the deal because they themselves running out of money. So 319 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:39.440 looked like all three companies were going to die. And 320 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:42.799 I was also going through divorce. So that was definitely 321 00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:48.039 a low point. And but fortunately the fourth launch worked. 322 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:51.240 And and then did. 323 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:52.879 You think that their launch was going to work? Was 324 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:53.919 it a shock that it didn't? 325 00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:58.120 Well, I thought it would most like I think I 326 00:16:58.120 --> 00:17:00.559 thought the odds were working were better than percent. 327 00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:06.640 But yeah, there was just a little little change. 328 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:11.000 In the thrust transient of the first stage engine that 329 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:13.640 resulted in that we didn't we couldn't see it on 330 00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:17.119 the ground because of the thrust transient. Well it's a 331 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:20.880 good slightly technical For a second, the pressure decay on 332 00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:23.799 the truck thrust transient dropped below sea level pressure. So 333 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:25.400 when you when you look at it on the test 334 00:17:25.480 --> 00:17:28.599 and at with you know, at sea level, you don't 335 00:17:28.599 --> 00:17:30.799 see it. It doesn't that that doesn't look like there's 336 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:33.240 a thrust transient. And because we changed the architecture of 337 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:36.400 the engine to one that was generally cooled instead of 338 00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:40.279 relatively cooled, it had this little tiny transient which caused 339 00:17:40.279 --> 00:17:43.799 the first stage to round the upper stage and and 340 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:48.240 the upper stage engine started started inside the interstage section. 341 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:50.519 Like it's like sort of firing up this giant this 342 00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:55.400 engine indoors with with a big plasma blowback that fried 343 00:17:55.599 --> 00:17:56.640 fried the upper stage. 344 00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:57.279 Wow. 345 00:17:57.559 --> 00:17:58.880 Yeah, I wasn't expecting that. 346 00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:02.440 So, so it's two thousand and eight, You're going through 347 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:05.599 a divorce, which, like some to borrow your word, douchebag 348 00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:08.079 bloggers are writing about to make even worse. 349 00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:09.440 Right, Yes, that's true. 350 00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:12.160 In addition to to a less stuff happening, I was 351 00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:15.599 getting dumped on massively in the press, right, yeah. 352 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:18.160 You're you know, it looks like all three companies are 353 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:18.799 going to get file. 354 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:21.759 I mean, why do you keep going with all three? 355 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:24.079 Like I feel like even a lot of great entrepreneurs 356 00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:26.640 in that situation would have been like I've already sunk 357 00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:29.960 everything I have in these companies and I got to 358 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.279 pick one. 359 00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:34.480 But you didn't. I mean, you kept doing all three. Why. 360 00:18:35.240 --> 00:18:35.440 Yeah? 361 00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:38.440 That was that was a very tough pool at the 362 00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:40.039 end of two thousand and eight. That was that was 363 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:41.799 probably the tough you know, one of the toughest goals 364 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:47.119 I've had to make because I could either reserve capital 365 00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:50.519 for one company or the other. I mean solo, the 366 00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:52.839 city didn't need a ton of capitals there they were okay, 367 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:59.359 But between SpaceX and and Tesla, you know, it's sort 368 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:02.839 of like like you've got two kids, and what do 369 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:05.599 you do? Do you spend all your money to maximize 370 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:08.880 probably the success of one, or do you do you 371 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:09.960 try to keep both life? 372 00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:10.960 Unfortunately it worked. 373 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:14.400 You also had to step back in as the CEO 374 00:19:14.440 --> 00:19:15.000 of Tesla. 375 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:19.119 Yeah, Michael was never to be the CEO of Tesla 376 00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:22.039 from the beginning. I mean I've had Inderson electric cars 377 00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:23.920 that goes back twenty years to you know, when I 378 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:25.880 was in college. In fact, I used to talk to 379 00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:29.480 my dates about electric cars. Probably not the best strategy. 380 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:30.240 Close those dates. 381 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:36.559 No, no, I usually have to stop talking about that. 382 00:19:39.319 --> 00:19:43.079 But yeah, so I've got long standing interest in electric cars. 383 00:19:43.640 --> 00:19:47.279 But since I was doing SpaceX, I knew that if 384 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:50.359 I did try to start an electricock company and run it, 385 00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:54.720 that it would be extremely painful to run two companies. 386 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:57.359 So I tried, really tried my hardest not to be 387 00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:00.480 the CEO of Tesla. I mean any at any point 388 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:02.119 from day one I could have been the CEO because 389 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:05.240 I had a majority of control of the company, but I. 390 00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:08.200 Really tried not to. 391 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:09.960 And in the end it was at the end of 392 00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:13.519 two thousand and eight, it's I'd commit all of my. 393 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:15.960 Reserve capital to Tesla. 394 00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:22.400 That wasn't allocated to SpaceX, and so I felt I 395 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:26.640 had to sort of steer the ship directly. But it 396 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:29.160 was it was not it was not out of it 397 00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:32.000 was most it was really not fun, like super not fun. 398 00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:32.759 Yeah. 399 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:36.039 I remember when we talked, I guess maybe the next 400 00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:37.920 year after that, you said, you know this is not 401 00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:40.599