WEBVTT 1 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:17.039 Welcome to Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbas. Our guest in 2 00:00:17.039 --> 00:00:21.320 this edition is military historian and author Carol Engel Averette. 3 00:00:22.120 --> 00:00:25.519 She's the author of numerous military history books, including Coffin 4 00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:28.800 Corner Boys, about her bomber crew shot down over Europe 5 00:00:28.879 --> 00:00:33.200 during World War II, and Marine Raiders. Today, she's here 6 00:00:33.240 --> 00:00:36.600 to discuss her new book, Midnight in Iron Bottom Sound, 7 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:40.119 the harrowing World War II story of heroism in the 8 00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:44.439 shark infested waters of Guadalcanal. It's the story of the 9 00:00:44.479 --> 00:00:48.520 heroism of Charles Jackson French, a mess attendant aboard the 10 00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:51.479 US S Gregory who saved the lives of more than 11 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:54.039 a dozen men after the ship was sunk by the 12 00:00:54.159 --> 00:00:58.439 Japanese in September of nineteen forty two. It is our 13 00:00:58.520 --> 00:01:01.719 custom on Veterans Chronicles to feature the veteran telling their 14 00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:05.159 own story. But mister French is no longer with us 15 00:01:05.359 --> 00:01:08.480 to tell his story, and this is one that needs 16 00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:11.400 to be told, and there's no one more qualified to 17 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:15.680 tell it than Carol Engel Averette. Averette says the story 18 00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:18.840 of Charles Jackson French first came to her attention while 19 00:01:18.879 --> 00:01:22.239 she was researching the heroism of the Marine raiders in 20 00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:23.200 the South Pacific. 21 00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:28.359 And as I studied and read, I kept running across 22 00:01:28.560 --> 00:01:32.359 a little sentence here and a little sentence there about 23 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:40.200 these amazing destroyer transports conversions actually, that were even known 24 00:01:40.280 --> 00:01:43.400 by the sailors then as the brave little ships, and 25 00:01:43.599 --> 00:01:47.519 they carried the marine raiders and of course others in 26 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:51.959 the war, but primarily marine raiders from one island to another. 27 00:01:52.319 --> 00:01:54.799 I just became fascinated with them, and of course, as 28 00:01:54.840 --> 00:01:57.159 I was doing Marine Raiders, I touched on that just 29 00:01:57.200 --> 00:02:01.239 a little bit. But when that book was complete and published, 30 00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:03.920 I thought, you know what, I'm going to go back 31 00:02:04.120 --> 00:02:08.759 and do some in depth study of these destroy transports 32 00:02:08.800 --> 00:02:12.599 that called APDs. They were convergents lo and behold. I 33 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:18.599 zeroed in on one particular ship, the USS Gregory, and 34 00:02:18.639 --> 00:02:21.159 began to do a deep dive because one or two 35 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:25.599 places had mentioned something about some of the crew. Greg 36 00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:30.439 one of the most remarkable, important stories that I have 37 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:32.599 ever had the honor and privilege to write about. 38 00:02:32.919 --> 00:02:36.439 Charles Jackson French didn't have much growing up in southern Arkansas. 39 00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:39.039 He lost both of his parents while he was still 40 00:02:39.039 --> 00:02:42.560 a kid, and the Great Depression was very hard on everyone, 41 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:46.280 but Averette says French had one thing nearby that would 42 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:50.199 prepare him very well for his biggest moment, The Red River. 43 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:57.159 Charles Jackson French was a young black American born in Foreman, Arkansas. 44 00:02:57.199 --> 00:03:00.199 His father was a sharecropper, and he was raised in 45 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:03.639 what's known as the bottom lands of the Red River, 46 00:03:03.759 --> 00:03:07.159 the iconic Red River, one of the longest rivers in 47 00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:10.120 our country. But as a young boy, he and his 48 00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:15.159 friends didn't have, you know, the option of football teams 49 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:16.960 or basketball teams at that time, and so on and 50 00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:19.759 so forth. So their play consisted of being out in 51 00:03:19.879 --> 00:03:24.960 nature primarily. And the Red River had any incredible reputation 52 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:28.560 for being a very very dangerous river. Currents and there's 53 00:03:28.599 --> 00:03:31.240 a kind of a silt that forms the bottom of 54 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:34.759 the Red River. It's not exactly quicksand, but it acts 55 00:03:34.840 --> 00:03:38.360 like it sucks you under and with the currents. In fact, 56 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:41.439 I had the mayor of Foreman, Bill Hart, tell me 57 00:03:41.479 --> 00:03:43.639 that there's so many drownings in the Red River, and 58 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:47.319 the bodies are usually never found, they're just simply swept away. 59 00:03:48.199 --> 00:03:51.759 And so Charles, I'm certain was as a young boy, 60 00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:56.159 admonished many times you know, don't you go into that, 61 00:03:56.560 --> 00:04:00.199 You know, those dangerous waters. But like most children, and 62 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:03.360 oftentimes you do what you're not told to do. And 63 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:07.400 so he ventured into those waters and that was where 64 00:04:07.479 --> 00:04:10.080 he learned to swim and how he became such a 65 00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:14.840 great swimmer, and that's key to what happens to him 66 00:04:14.919 --> 00:04:17.879 later on when he is a crew member of the Gregory. 67 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:20.600 By the time French was eighteen years old in nineteen 68 00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:24.120 thirty seven, Averette says he was more than ready to 69 00:04:24.199 --> 00:04:24.920 join the Navy. 70 00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:28.240 This is Depression era. He was born in nineteen nineteen, 71 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:33.160 lived through the Depression, and of course not much available 72 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:36.680 in the terms of work for young black men at 73 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:40.399 that particular time, and so he, likes so many other 74 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:45.600 young men during the late thirties, decided to go into 75 00:04:45.639 --> 00:04:47.720 the military and he joined the Navy. 76 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:51.399 French would actually serve and then leave the Navy, only 77 00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:54.720 to rejoin after the attack on Pearl Harbor. It was 78 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:58.040 then that he was assigned to the USS Gregory. The 79 00:04:58.120 --> 00:05:01.959 captain of the Gregory was Lieutenant Commander Harry Bauer, who 80 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:04.759 took a very different path into the Navy and was 81 00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:06.600 a highly regarded leader. 82 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:11.079 And he got an appointment to Annapolis, and so went 83 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:14.160 to the Naval Academy scored high, and all of his 84 00:05:14.839 --> 00:05:18.759 classes began to teach there, and then of course the 85 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:23.360 war broke out, and almost immediately, within just a few days, 86 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:26.920 he was given his own ship, and his ship was 87 00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:32.120 the USS Gregory. He of course was absolutely thrilled to 88 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:35.519 have his own ship and to be in charge of 89 00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:39.759 his own crew, and was just had the reputation for 90 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:44.839 being just a really incredible person. He established a culture 91 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:49.439 on the ship that was everyone included. He loved to 92 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:52.360 get to know his crew and tried to get to 93 00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:55.519 know as many of them as possible, as fate would 94 00:05:55.560 --> 00:05:59.519 have it. That was the same ship that Charles Jackson 95 00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:03.600 French was assigned to as a mess attendant, which at 96 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:07.000 that time in our navy, as you know, it was 97 00:06:07.040 --> 00:06:10.879 segregated and really about the only thing open. In fact, 98 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:14.360 the only thing open for young black sailors was in 99 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:17.639 the galley, either as a mess attendant, if you served 100 00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:21.079 the men, or if you had done very very well, 101 00:06:21.399 --> 00:06:23.360 later on, after you'd been in for a while, you 102 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:27.000 might be promoted to a steward who would serve the officers. Then, 103 00:06:27.800 --> 00:06:33.360 so you had Lieutenant Commander Harry Bauer as the highest 104 00:06:33.399 --> 00:06:37.360 ranking person on the ship, and you had mess Attendant 105 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:40.959 Charles Jackson French, who was actually the lowest ranking. 106 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:44.319 The USS Gregory served as a destroyer in World War 107 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:47.480 One and was put back into service after Pearl Harbor. 108 00:06:48.199 --> 00:06:51.360 But as Averette explains, it was modified in ways that 109 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:54.920 were both practical and more than a little concerning. 110 00:06:55.240 --> 00:06:58.560 It had been in mothballs for twenty years. The navy 111 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:02.279 head was called, you could say, flat footed when Pearl 112 00:07:02.279 --> 00:07:07.800 Harbor happened, and they needed very quickly to replenish and 113 00:07:07.920 --> 00:07:13.480 to substitute ships to come in and begin to help 114 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:15.639 with amphibious landings and so on and so forth. So 115 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:20.600 they looked to thirty two of these destroyers. They were 116 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:24.120 actually called four stackers because they had four smoke stacks 117 00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:27.079 at the time in World War One, or flush deckers 118 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:30.120 because they had a flush deck. They took thirty two 119 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:34.879 of these and converted them into transports. The actual crew 120 00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:37.399 of that particular ship was about one hundred and twenty 121 00:07:37.560 --> 00:07:41.800 give or take, but you're talking about adding an additional 122 00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:45.720 one hundred and twenty marines raiders with all their gear 123 00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:49.319 and all their equipment and all their weaponry so they 124 00:07:49.399 --> 00:07:53.000 had to do something. They took out two of the 125 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:56.040 smoke stacks, two of the boilers, which greatly reduced the 126 00:07:56.079 --> 00:07:59.759 speed of those destroyer transports, and almost all of their 127 00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:04.040 are They left them with some, but they were virtually 128 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:09.160 without a lot of ways to defend themselves. But it 129 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:14.360 was such a necessary use of those destroy transports. They 130 00:08:14.439 --> 00:08:21.639 were renamed APDs Auxiliary Personnel destroyers. They were really the heroes, 131 00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:24.680 you know. They were not upfront on the front part 132 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:27.240 of the stage, but they were what had to take 133 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:32.440 place behind. As General Vandergriff said, they were pivotal without 134 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:36.039 which those brave little ships and their brave crews we 135 00:08:36.200 --> 00:08:38.879 simply could not have gotten from island to island. 136 00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:42.480 As Averette mentioned, the guns and smokestacks were taken out 137 00:08:42.519 --> 00:08:45.679 of the APDs to make room for more Marine raiders. 138 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:49.360 It was still jam packed, and she says the raiders 139 00:08:49.360 --> 00:08:52.120 and the crew of the Gregory developed a very close 140 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:55.360 bond on their way to the South Pacific and Guadalcanal. 141 00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:59.679 The Marine Raiders landed at Guadalcanal on August seventh, nineteen 142 00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:03.200 forty two. The Gregory dropped off eraidors on the island 143 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:06.639 of Tulagi, which is across Sea Lark Channel from Guadalcanal. 144 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:10.320 The Gregory and a sister ship then tucked themselves away 145 00:09:10.360 --> 00:09:13.919 from the main part of the channel near Tulagi. Averyett 146 00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:17.720 says that kept them protected from a massive Japanese attack 147 00:09:17.799 --> 00:09:19.759 against other vessels in the channel. 148 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:23.600 This is known as the Battle of Tsavo Island. All 149 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:29.399 of the ships, our ships, Japanese ships, Australian ships were 150 00:09:29.679 --> 00:09:34.120 filled these waters became very, very dangerous. In fact, it's 151 00:09:34.120 --> 00:09:36.799 really a unique chapter in naval history. I start off 152 00:09:36.840 --> 00:09:42.159 with a wonderful quote from an author who did a 153 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:44.679 lot of research and actually was there. He was an 154 00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:48.559 embedded journalist for a while. But it's an interesting chapter 155 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:52.600 in naval history because we took a beating. Really basically 156 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:56.120 what it boiled down to, lost many many ships, many 157 00:09:56.159 --> 00:10:00.679 many airplanes. All these engagements mostly were it not mostly 158 00:10:00.759 --> 00:10:04.559 surface engagements, almost head to head the way they used 159 00:10:04.600 --> 00:10:06.720 to fight in the seventeen hundreds, when they just line 160 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:09.960 up beside one another. And that's basically what happened many 161 00:10:10.039 --> 00:10:15.519 times in the channel Sea Lark Channel and at Tsavo Island. 162 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:19.679 We lost so many ships. In fact, the carriers, these 163 00:10:19.799 --> 00:10:24.639 remaining carriers who were located in the secret location withdrew 164 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:28.320 completely from the Solomon Islands, and as a result, it 165 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:33.279 left the Marines on Guadalcanal, the Army on Guadalcanal that 166 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:36.639 had been dropped off, and the marine raiders on Tulagi 167 00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:40.919 that had been dropped off, really without any any way 168 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:44.120 to get additional food or supplies or ammunition or whatever. 169 00:10:44.919 --> 00:10:50.200 And so at that point, these small destroyer transports, including 170 00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:54.480 the USS Gregory and her sister ship, the Little began 171 00:10:54.679 --> 00:10:59.720 doing blockade running at night to resupply and bring additional 172 00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:03.279 AMMO as they could as they could get through that 173 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:06.679 Dane's dangerous waters with all the patrolling that the Japanese 174 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:10.559 were doing, and to drop off additional supplies for the 175 00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:13.559 men who were basically at that point more or less 176 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:18.960 stranded on those islands. Very dangerous. They knew every time 177 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:22.200 that they went from Numeya back into Sea Lark Channel 178 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:24.799 that there was a very good chance that they would 179 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:30.399 run into destroyers or even cruisers Japanese that were and submarines, 180 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:35.159 and so just a very very dangerous missions that they 181 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:39.279 did to help supply those that were on the islands fighting. 182 00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:44.039 That's Carol Angel Averett, author of Midnight and Iron Bottom Sound. 183 00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:47.159 When we come back, we'll find out how the USS 184 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:53.360 Gregory was lost. I'm Greg Corumbus and this is Veterans Chronicles. 185 00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:54.799 Sixty seconds of Service. 186 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:58.039 This sixty seconds of Service is presented by T Mobile. 187 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:01.240 T Mobile offers exclusive discount for a veteran and military 188 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:04.759 families and are proud supporters of the National Defense Network. 189 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:07.799 Visit T mobile dot com slash military to learn more 190 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:11.039 about how they support our military community. In Phoenix, a 191 00:12:11.080 --> 00:12:14.080 new VA Mobile medical unit is bringing healthcare to homeless 192 00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:18.360 veterans across the valley that is providing incredible results. The 193 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:20.919 new state of the art unit, launched six months ago, 194 00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:24.039 has provided care to over four hundred veterans this year. 195 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:29.519 Staff focuses on assisting veterans with medical care, mental health support, vaccinations, 196 00:12:29.559 --> 00:12:34.440 and more. The program has reduced or visits, prevented hospital readmissions, 197 00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:37.360 and ensured that those who have served our country received 198 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:40.919 the proper care they need and deserve. Today's sixty seconds 199 00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:43.840 of Service is brought to you by Prevagen. Prevagen is 200 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:47.240 the number one pharmacist recommended memory support brand. You can 201 00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:51.120 find Prevagen and the Vitamin Aisle in stores everywhere. 202 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:54.360 This Iss Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest is 203 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:58.120 Carol Angel Averette, author of Midnight in Iron Bottom Sound 204 00:12:58.919 --> 00:13:02.440 Just a Moment Ago told us about the devastating Japanese 205 00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:06.720 attack off Guadalcanal in August nineteen forty two. She now 206 00:13:06.799 --> 00:13:09.559 explains the toll suffered by the US Navy on that 207 00:13:09.679 --> 00:13:13.320 night and throughout the war, and how Sea Lark Channel 208 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:14.759 earned a different name. 209 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:18.879 According to the records that I've looked at, we lost 210 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:24.919 almost forty ships that night, and the Japanese also lost 211 00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:28.480 even more than that number. By the end of the war. 212 00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:31.720 The end of the time that we left Guadalcanal, over 213 00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:36.480 six hundred planes of ours had been downed and over 214 00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:42.559 six hundred Japanese planes had been downed. So that instead 215 00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:46.519 of calling it Sea Lark Channel, the sailors and the 216 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:51.200 Marines began calling it Iron Bottom Sound because there is 217 00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:54.799 so much iron in the bottom of that channel. So 218 00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:57.360 many ships went down from the battle that you're talking 219 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:03.279 about Savo Island, so many planes went down, material jeeps, tanks, 220 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:07.279 and so forth. It is really considered the number one 221 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:10.240 what it is, the number one maritime grave site in 222 00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:14.279 the world. It is also the most sought after dive 223 00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:19.759 site in the world. Twenty of those positions have been identified. 224 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:24.080 They believe that they have found perhaps either the Gregory 225 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:26.919 or the Little, but it has not been identified where. 226 00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:29.639 I'm hoping that within the next year or two they 227 00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:34.480 can actually identify completely which one of those APDs they 228 00:14:34.759 --> 00:14:36.840 that went down the night later that we'll talk about 229 00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:40.200 in September that was either the Gregory or the Little 230 00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:43.360 that has already been discovered. But it's so deep and 231 00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:46.919 the currents are so difficult that it really takes it 232 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:49.559 really takes more than just amateur divers to try to 233 00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:52.320 get down to it. So I'm hoping eventually it will 234 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:56.279 be identified. But as I say, it is the largest 235 00:14:56.279 --> 00:14:58.600 maritime grave site in the world. A lot of people 236 00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:02.000 don't realize that, and we lost more men in the 237 00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:05.000 water than we did on land on Guadacanal. 238 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:08.080 After a month of harrowing blockade running to and from 239 00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:11.919 the Solomon Islands, the USS Gregory dropped off marine raiders 240 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:16.279 on Guadalcanal on September fourth, nineteen forty two, but stuck 241 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.360 around instead of leaving the area. Averette explains why they 242 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:24.080 stayed and what happened the fateful night that Gregory. 243 00:15:23.799 --> 00:15:27.840 Was lost earlier. They thought that a submarine had been 244 00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:32.159 spotted and the Gregory and the Little because they had 245 00:15:32.200 --> 00:15:36.120 become so close to these raiders after they transported them 246 00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:41.159 from Tulagi over to Guatecanal, they decided to instead of 247 00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:44.639 going back to the safe harbor and relatively safe harbor 248 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:48.320 at Tulagi, they decided to stay through the night and 249 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:52.240 patrol the shoreline to protect the raiders that were camping 250 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:56.440 there along the edge of the shore of Guadalcanal. During 251 00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:00.399 that time, there was a spotter who thought he spot 252 00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:05.399 the submarine, and so they sent up a pby. One 253 00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:08.320 of our planes set up a peby to go out 254 00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:10.919 and try to scout to see if he could spot 255 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:15.679 that submarine during the night, and he shot off five 256 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:19.200 flares to see if he could highlight the submarine, and 257 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:23.159 unfortunately he didn't realize he had no way of knowing. 258 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:26.480 He didn't know the Gregory and the Little were down there, 259 00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:29.480 and he lit up instead of the enemy submarine, he 260 00:16:29.559 --> 00:16:34.279 lit up these two destroyer transports back lit them, and 261 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:38.279 so immediately the Japanese patrolling that area looks often they 262 00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:43.399 see two of our APDs and they come storming down, 263 00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:46.600 and of course they've got full armor, they full weaponry, 264 00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:51.279 all of their cannon, and they they begin to shell viciously, 265 00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:56.120 both the Gregory and the Little, and really within I 266 00:16:56.200 --> 00:16:59.799 forget the exact time, but in an around an hour 267 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:04.319 or so, both ships were rolling over and were going 268 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:08.880 down already the call for abandoned ship had come out. 269 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:12.920 And it is during that night a terrible, terrible night 270 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:18.319 began around probably around eleven o'clock to midnight and then 271 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:21.960 went all through the night. The Japanese came down. As 272 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:25.039 wounded soldiers began jumping off the Gregor and the Little 273 00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:27.920 and into the water, the Japanese came down, and of 274 00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:31.640 course the machine gunned a lot of the ones survivors 275 00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:34.960 trying to save themselves, and I mean it was a melee. 276 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:39.079 Badly wounded Lieutenant Commander Harry Bauer was the picture of 277 00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:41.720 self sacrifice in his final moments. 278 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:45.200 Well. Harry Bower, of course, during such a time as 279 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:48.319 that a surface engagement would be on the bridge as 280 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:51.759 the commanding officer of the ship. When he realized that 281 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:56.599 the ship was rolling he immediately called abandoned ship. He 282 00:17:56.839 --> 00:18:00.839 himself had been struck and he was bad wounded, and 283 00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:05.960 two of his men came to him and wanted to 284 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:07.839 try to get him in the water. And about the 285 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:10.039 time they were trying to help him into the water, 286 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:15.880 they heard another sailor, one of his crew, yelling for help, 287 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:21.480 and Bower ordered the two men to go and save 288 00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:25.200 that other sailor, and they did. They got him into 289 00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:28.680 the water and onto a raft, but when they tried 290 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:32.039 to come back, the ship had already rolled over and 291 00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:33.640 Bower was never seen again. 292 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:36.720 And for all the sailors jumping into the water, there 293 00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:41.160 was another big problem. There were sharks. Lots of sharks. 294 00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:45.119 It was full of sharks, and I used the term. 295 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:47.920 In fact, a gentleman said to me. He said, well, 296 00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:50.200 it wasn't real. It couldn't have really been infested because 297 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:54.680 sharks were where they were supposed to be. Well, well, actually, 298 00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:57.839 actually there were so many sharks. I read of an 299 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:00.880 incident where the marine raiders were trying to land on 300 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:03.920 another island, Georgia Island a little bit later, and they 301 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:07.519 had to use hand grenades to get their rubber rafts 302 00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:11.599 through the sharks. They literally were practically lying one on 303 00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:16.200 top of another. So I felt like in this particular instance, 304 00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:19.680 shark infested was as good a description as you're going 305 00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:22.400 to get. But it was full of sharks, is the point. 306 00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:26.279 That's Carol Engel Averette, the author of Midnight in Iron 307 00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:30.839 Bottom Sound, in a moment the incredible heroism of Charles 308 00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:36.119 Jackson French. I'm Greg Corumbus, and this is Veterans Chronicles. 309 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:41.519 This is Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in 310 00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:45.960 this edition is military historian and author Carol Engel Averette. 311 00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:50.200 Her latest book is Midnight in Iron Bottom Sound, the 312 00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:53.880 herrowing World War II story of heroism in the shark 313 00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:57.799 infested waters of Guadalcanal. It tells the story of the 314 00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:02.559 heroism of Mess Attendant Charles Jackson French on September fifth, 315 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:06.599 nineteen forty two, following the Japanese sinking of the USS 316 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:11.000 Gregory and the USS Little in Sea Lark Channel, which 317 00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:15.920 is often referred to now as Iron Bottom Sound. Earlier 318 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:19.440 we noted the selfless heroism of Lieutenant Commander Harry Bauer, 319 00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:22.599 who was mortally wounded from the Japanese shelling of the 320 00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:26.400 bridge on the USS Gregory. A young ensign on the 321 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:30.880 bridge that night was Bob Adrian he survived and literally 322 00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:34.519 lived to tell the story of Charles Jackson French, of 323 00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:38.079 which he was an eye witness. Averette takes us through 324 00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:40.519 French's courageous and selfless actions. 325 00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:43.079 Bob Adrian had been able to get in. He actually 326 00:20:43.160 --> 00:20:45.640 had a lot of shell fragments in his face in 327 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:49.079 one eye particularly, but he had been able to get 328 00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:52.640 into the water. In his sort of paddling around and 329 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:55.440 trying to figure out where which direction to go in 330 00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:58.759 and all, he saw a rubber raft that looked like 331 00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:01.599 it had a couple of wounded soldiers in it, and 332 00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:06.200 he get gets up to it and he recognizes Charles 333 00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:11.160 Jackson French's southern accent. Evidently he had a very just 334 00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:15.359 like mine from Alabama. He had probably a very noticeable 335 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:19.400 Arkansas accent. And so he yells out to him, and 336 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:21.640 Charles says, you know, yes, sir, you know, come on 337 00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:24.960 and let me help you in. And so he pulls 338 00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:29.960 Adrian into the raft and then they are together the 339 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:35.440 rest of the night, and Adrian says to Charles, we're 340 00:21:35.480 --> 00:21:37.359 drifting towards shore. He said, I don't know what we're 341 00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:39.480 going to do. The currents are taking us. The Japanese 342 00:21:39.519 --> 00:21:42.559 are gonna are there. They're gonna take us prisoner. We 343 00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:47.480 sure don't want that shoot us. And so Frint starts 344 00:21:47.480 --> 00:21:50.200 taking off his clothes and Adrian says, what what are 345 00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:52.920 you doing, man? And he said, I'm getting in the 346 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:56.160 water and I'm pulling us, and so he does. Now, 347 00:21:56.200 --> 00:21:58.599 the reason he takes off his clothes is because one 348 00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:01.359 of the things that you're taught, they were talked in 349 00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:05.039 the navy, is that sharks will go to flapping clothes. 350 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:07.160 And of course they're barel bottomed pants and all of 351 00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:09.839 that would have flapped in the water. So he strips 352 00:22:09.880 --> 00:22:12.680 down and he takes the rope from the raft and 353 00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:15.440 ties it around his waist and he begins to swim. 354 00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:18.880 And Adrian has got one eye, and he says, because 355 00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:21.559 he wants clothed with all the shrapnel in it. And 356 00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:24.640 he said, okay, he says, Charles, I can help you 357 00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:27.279 best I can, but you've got a one eyed navigator here. 358 00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:31.640 And so Charles began to swim and pull the raft 359 00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:34.720 away from the shore, and in the meantime he's coming 360 00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:38.839 across more wounded sailors. So when he comes across one, 361 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:41.519 he takes him and he picks him. You know it 362 00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:45.880 helps push him up into the raft and Greg by 363 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:48.480 the end of the night. Bob Adrian later in his 364 00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:53.519 journal said there were at least fifteen soldiers that Charles 365 00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:56.400 had managed to pull wounded out of the water and 366 00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:59.839 pull them up into that raft. So you've got enemy 367 00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:04.160 on shore. And Charles kept saying, man, these currents are incredible, 368 00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:06.319 and Adrian would say, now you can't pull us. You 369 00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:08.559 can't allow us to be pulled out to see because 370 00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:10.480 if we get out in the South Pacific, they'll never 371 00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:14.680 find us. So he's he's fighting the currents. He's fighting 372 00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:16.559 the currents trying to push him to shore where the 373 00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:20.359 Japanese are. And then just for you know, the icing 374 00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:23.680 on the cake, he's got sharks that begin rubbing him 375 00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:26.880 all around his legs, on the bottom of his feet, 376 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:29.839 and they would leave and come back. It was just 377 00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:30.720 the strangest thing. 378 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.880 Averett says it's hard to know exactly how far French 379 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:37.799 swam for a number of reasons, reasons which make his 380 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:39.799 actions even more impressive. 381 00:23:40.119 --> 00:23:44.000 He's trying to stay away from the shoreline of Guadalcanal, 382 00:23:44.119 --> 00:23:47.759 which is a Guadalcanal is a fairly long island, so 383 00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:49.480 he's trying to stay away from the shore because they 384 00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:53.920 don't really know it's full of Japanese. This is, you know, 385 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:57.920 before we even really had control of Henderson Field, so 386 00:23:58.039 --> 00:24:00.519 it's you know, anybody's guess where you would run into. 387 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:05.200 One Tokyo expressed during this month, we're bringing down five 388 00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:10.000 thousand to six thousand fresh troop and depositing them on 389 00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:13.160 the island every night, so you could not go ashore. 390 00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:17.559 That was the thing. And I suspect that it just 391 00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:21.359 simply was a back and forth, just trying to stay away, 392 00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:24.960 stay out of trouble, stay low, don't get pulled out 393 00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:28.279 too far to sea, and for Heaven's sakes, don't put 394 00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:30.640 your feet too low in the water because those sharks 395 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:31.200 are down there. 396 00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:33.720 Averette says, the most meaningful part of the story for 397 00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:37.920 Charles Jackson French happened the next morning after he and 398 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:40.319 the rest of the men in their raft were brought 399 00:24:40.359 --> 00:24:43.680 safely on shore at Guadalcanal by marine raiders. 400 00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:47.799 The raiders had pulled all of these men on shore 401 00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:51.359